The Issue With The Twin Cam Crankshafts | Harley-Davidson Cut Costs
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- Опубликовано: 30 янв 2025
- You may of heard that Harley-Davidson pressed the crankshaft assembly together on the Twin Cam and that it's not a good thing. It's not necessarily a bad thing either, in most cases it does work really well and you can still build some decent power on the stock crank. Issues with the pressed crankshaft are hit and miss just like the cam chain tensioners on the early Twin Cam engine. We'll take a look at the issues, what it takes to fix a factory crank, what the signs of a crankshaft problem are and some practical solutions and tips to keep your bike running strong.
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Would you replace your crankshaft or have a machine shop balance, true and weld your stock crankshaft?
I'll sell mine for whatever i can get and buy a Rocket3 or a V-Max. I wish i'd have watched yours, and other vids...
I think that if I do anymore upgrades to my engine (Going to a Sidewinder 100 Kit) I would probably just buy a S&S aftermarket crank. Yeah I am also not hard on the bike minus getting on it at highway speeds. Thanks for a great video! Happy New Years Man!
I would probably send my crank in to be balanced trued and welded, but I think the real question is when to do it? 🤔. All these top end power kits put a lot of pressure on the bottom half. Do you do the crank preemptively? Do you wait and do it when you do your top end? Do you do it after a certain mileage threshold (i.e. 90,000 miles)? Or do you do it only if you have signs of run out? This is a good segment to all those guys who want a big motor kit to show off to their friends. They need to think about the vitality of their entire motor, top and bottom.
Great topic...as usual.
Dark Horse if you can afford it. They are perfect every time and built tough.
I’m currently getting my crank, rods & bearings redone on my 14 TC, didn’t break, but at 57k miles, I’m having an engine upgrade. Time to retire and I’m about to hit a few bucket list places. I pull a trailer and a heavy load.
As crank was split apart, discovered corrosion on bearings and rods. Needed new rods and bearings. It will be balanced, trued, and welded when done. The cost is little cheaper than buying new, and I will know that runout is and should stay acceptable tolerance.
Its nice that Harley-Davidson lets its customers do most of the research and development but still charges them for it with high sales prices.
😆😂👍 that sounds about right
There's nothing wrong with Harleys TC motor....the key is like anything mechanical don't abuse it...l have 2 2006 Harleys with 75000 miles on each with all stock parts...now if you're gonna go to Sturgis get drunk and go do burnouts like a fucking asswipe then expect parts to break...peace
@@terryduncan5718 I bet you’ve ruined a party or three just by showing up! 🤡🤡🤡
@@terryduncan5718 well apparently there is!!🙄
@@terryduncan5718disagree. 100 percent. You're just a lucky duck.
We did a build on my 03 Lowrider and it made real good torque and HP. Now half my friends are warning I should have welded the crank pin and half are telling me not to stress over it. The most logical voices say it will be fine unless I start drag racing and doing burnouts.
I like to spin the tire😅
I would always recommend having the flywheels true and welded for 'Hot Rod' builds, did this to my '02 and have ridden it like I stole it for over 160,000 miles.
If you're down that far in the motor you'd be crazy not to while you're there.
Hello, thank you for your informative videos. The S.E. "Lefty Bearing" does NOT address crankshaft end-play, a major problem with elimination of the Timken bearing set-up. I was disappointed that you even mentioned the Lefty-Bearing as an option as dealerships love to push S.E. parts that don't work well. Anyway, the stock lower-end set-up isn't bad IF you keep the motor relatively stock; however, if you make modifications that increase engine H.P. and Torque, the responsible and smart move is to beef-up the crankshaft to handle that extra power, and Darkhorse Crankworks does an excellent job of modifying crankshafts to do just that! Thanks again for your videos!
Thanks for the informative vlog regarding the twin cam crank. 195K+ on my stock 96. Keep it coming. Thanks
Thank you for the support on the channel!! 195K that's very very impressive!
Gixerfoo, you said the reason the 1999-2002, twin cams are better is due to the Timken bearings. Although this is true, the main reason is that the crankshafts in those years were forged as a whole unit, not pressed together as you described. I appreciate your contributions to the community and thank you for your videos. Ride safe bro!
Thank you! You are correct, its part of the cost saving they went after in 03 where quality really went to pot. There were some issues from 99 to 02 with the cranks but they were very very rare, it was mostly the tensioner nightmare. Hope your having a wonderful New Year!
The crank pins are still pressed together on 99-02 tc88s
@@garryhorton9105 I'm amazed that this guy is still going strong. If you watch any of his videos (about Harleys anyway) it's very obvious he doesn't actually understand what he's talking about. The runout issue and the pressed together cranks are 2 completely different issues.
@@MegaBrownie44 yes I agree 👍🏼
Great video. A lot of helpful info. All of that is the reason I went with an evo. Was a bit of culture shock when I did, but I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world now.
Right on! I had to laugh when the guy wouldn't call you back, lol the guy was really skeptical abou that trade. The Softail Evo is super clean though, they are getting hard to find like that!
I have bought and sold over 70 Harleys the twin cam 88 engine is my favorite never had a single problem my 05 Springer is the keeper
Can you do a video comparing aftermarket cranks and their prices? Also maybe touch on bearing upgrades. That would be an awesome and informative video.
Great suggestion! That's not a bad idea at all, there's really only one option on bearing and that's the Timken tapered bearings, but conversion is another story. Aftermarket cranks vary widely and I thinks that's a great subject to cover!
@@GixxerFoo yes, do this.. and be ready for the sticker shock.
I have 04 cases on my 95B and opted to put in the JIMS sleeve for Timken, bought the tool and did it myself. I put in an S&S 4" crank with pre 03 crankpin, set the clearance and never looked back. I installed gear drive cams, had great backlash and was worried cause I never heard the infamous "gear whine"! Anyway, I had heard that when the 96" came out that they were notorious for the Crankpin moving, hence my apprehension for not going with anything beyond a 4" stroke. This was a GREAT segment Gixxer and have a Happy New Year!!!
Thank you! You got one hell of a setup on your crank, that's about bullet proof. Personally I like the sound of the gear whine, I imagine your timing is spot on running those gears. Yeah 2007 to 2009 96's had the compensator issues and the crank coming out of balance with the fly wheels shifting on the crank pin. It was a really hit or miss deal, but it seems like something Harley quietly fixed as time went on.
Hi, awesome set up. I have the same as you do. i have 2005, 15th anniv fatboy, with 95B,new s&s crank, fueling camplate,lifters and hf oil pump. already had andrews 37 g in it, and yes hearing gear whine, when hot mostly, sounding tinny and high pitch bearing/gear sound. ?? no?? little backlash is normal.
@@-MrRichBiker1967 Yeah, I have the entire Feuling set up as well, plate, pump, lifters, etc. and am running cast Screamin Eagle flat tops, along with S&S Super Stock heads w/1.94 intake valves and it's @ about 9.75:1 static comp.
Between the flywheel and chain tensioner issues both lunching engines as well as the death wobble from the rubberband models I'm glad I have an old FX Shovelhead.
Shovel Head is built like a tank, Harley got into a lot of ridiculous cost cutting measures and it hurt the reliability.
When I took my RK from a 96 to a 110 I also went ahead with the S&S crank. Figured I might as well get ahead of any issues that might come with the stock one.
Thanks for all your educational videos. A few years ago I upgraded my 2015 Street Bob 96A with S&S big bore 106 fully works head and TB with Trask Stage 1 turbo kit. It’s freaking amazing and I love it. I can’t go back to NA. But now I bought the Feuling 543 Reaper cam chest upgrade, DH motorsprocket, and EVO IND full clutch assy. I’m getting the S&S flywheel assy. My understanding is the 2015 already comes with the lefty bearing upgrade stock. Even S&S said that I technically don’t need to do the Timken for my build as the bearing is not really the issue unless you have a stock crank. I would just get the Timken upgrade but not so easy in Japan and it seems a lot of people don’t have Timken, but upgraded and are fine. I don’t do all the crazy shit of burnouts, donuts, wheelies or drag racing. I just enjoy the power and spirited riding.
It's hard to go back once you've done forced induction, those are a lot of fun to ride! There's a big back and forth on the school Timken style vs the the straight roller setup. It's getting more accepted to run heavy duty rollers, it doesn't bother me honestly and it saves you a lot of money not converting over. Lol you need all the heavy setups for the way you ride!
@GixxerFoo Thanks for your thoughts. I’m loosing sleeping trying to decide which way go. I guess I’ll do Timken if I can find a shop to do it.
Very true on the oil build up. A couple of days before my oilpump gave up I had a big oil leak from the breathers. And indeed it failed. New set up with fueling camplate etc etc.
That's the way do it if you have a failure like that, don't go back with OEM and go with some high quality aftermarket parts!
I like your videos ! Realy simple and quite transparent. I have a 110ci cvo upgraded to 117 and I start having some small issue because of that , I understand what are the problems and start to upgrade one by one some parts like : plate and oil pump from S&S , change chain tensioner with a fix one , I change all gaskets on engine ( because I got some bottom leak - and now dont ) I prepare to change the rocker suport plate with SE one , add new Jims shaft with new arm bushings ( thinking .. maybe to get rocker arms from Jims ) and ofc your advice to put rocker locker . I have a small little problem : I dont know and didnt find what is the screw plug , on bottom of the cilinders , on the left side of the engine - is puking some oil . The bike now is more powerful and if , sometime, I drive aggressively, I got some oil around that plug . Somebody told me there is a pasage to look for aliniament …
Thanks!
Thank you for the support!!
Many who purchased the CVO 110 engine had this problem. Even riders who didn’t ride hard but often lugged the bike cause the crank to shift on the pin.
That's not another cause of it! Harley says specifically to not lug the the engine, it's not got good on the crank. Especially with the added torque of the 110 in a touring bike trying to pull that weight in a higher gear at low rpm.
I never realized how good my old Sportster was until I got a TC-88.
I rode the Sportster for 7 years and did nothing but oil changes on it. I bought a twin cam 88 and so far I have replace the entire cam chest and oil pump and I still worry about the crankshaft. Yeah my crank is in spec but that doesn't mean it will stay in spec.
That’s why had Darkhorse do a lightening job as well as welded pin and sprocket (since it’s a Softail) then, when I got it back I bought the Jim’s Timken bearing conversion kit and set mine runout at 0.002”... still running SE Hydro plate w/ chains
That's a bullet proof setup! You shouldn't never have an issue running it like that!
I miss the old shop with its gravity defying shelf and its lived in, homey look, GixerFoo.
I do miss that little shop a lot myself too, I need to bring back the shelf just cause. I seriously couldn't believe how popular the shelf was back in the day lmfao.
@@GixxerFoo, I think, in all honesty, that all of us talking about the shelf liked the guy next door it gave to your shop and to your videos when we first began watching them.
@@chrish5791💯. I can tinker a little bit still need a Gixxer foo neighbor!
This was my biggest fear when I purchased my 2013 Ultra. As I have told you before my runout was .006 at 60,000 miles which in my mind is excessive. Luckily my cam plate and oil pump had zero visible wear. I now have 123,500 miles and I'm obsessing over my next check which will be coming soon. I hope to hit 200,000 on the stock crank mostly for bragging then do a total rebuild. Like you said maintenance and how you ride is key.
Harley says upwards of .012 is acceptable with chain driven cams, but yeah I am with you that's a lot more than I would like. .006 with that mileage isn't too bad according to Harley, do you have any crazy vibration or anything (out of the norm for a Harley)?
@@GixxerFoo No vibration but I rarely rev it over 3,500 RPMs.
@Peter Angles I do not rev it past 3,500 because of the cam I installed. It produces the most torque from idle to 4,000 RPMs. The engine now has 139,000 miles and the crank is still the same as when it was new.
@Peter Angles
Honestly I rarely Rev mine that high either. Not out of fear but simply because it has plenty of torque and power at low RPM's.
Recently bought a 2012 Limited. Absolutely love it.
Thank you for the diagram and explanation of how the crank gets spun. Now I get it. Mine's a 1999 and so far, so good on the crank. Will look at the runout though just in case.
Glad it helped, your 99 has got the bullet proof Timken bottom end! The cranks were a lot more solid from 99 to 02, they used a larger crank pin those years. In 2007 on the 96 they used a smaller crank pin and increased the stroke. That created some serious issues!
@@GixxerFoo Good news, thank you. I am probably safe to stack some power into that system, and that's my next move!
A superb production and teaching moment as usual!!! 👍👍
From Southern California ~ Ride Forever! 🦅 🇺🇸
Thank you! I appreciate the support on the channel!
@@GixxerFoo 👍😎
I've twisted 3 and snapped 1 crank since 2004.my 5th is a S&S.so far so good.
Holy crap! Dang what were you doing to those cranks?! If you break an S&S they should give you a call and find out how so they can reeingineer that crank!
@@GixxerFoo had the extended warranty. I've eased up a bit after paying for the ss crank and getting my warranty voided. I'll never buy a new bike again. Their customer service left a bad taste in my mouth.
I worked on one of these it was a 2004 I think. As soon as I got the top end off I realized something was wrong with the crankshaft. In addition the cam shoe was totally worn out. I had him come get it that is not the work I can do is have no access to a machine shop anymore. He only had 41K on it. That Twin Cam convinced me to sell both my Twin Cams. I sold my 02 FLSTC and me 01 FLHRCI Road King. I bought a low mileage one owner 98 FLSTF Fatboy my Twin Cam problem is now solved. I have it and my 72 FLH I have had for 32 years. For my money the Shovelhead was the best motor Harley ever made. Super easy to work on my buke is very reliable.
If someone get's one with the shoes wore completely out like that it's a time bomb. He's lucky that motor hadn't locked up tight with the shoes gone. That Evo and Shovel will last a lifetime, they will just do what they do and they don't really care what anyone thinks.
@@GixxerFoo I am not sure the shoe tensioner didn't cause it to lock up. I stopped working on it as soon as i saw the crankshaft had something going on. The shop he took it to told him the motor was a loss since the case was cracked too. I didn't see that when I had it. I am a private guy who does side work in my garage. I did put in a hydraulic chain tensioner in a twin cam for a guy who bought all the gear pullers and parts. I never did one so i watched a RUclips video and had no problem doing it. . I saw enough problems in the few twin cams I worked on to make me sell mine.
We NEVER saw flywheel issues in any great numbers until 2006. I was working warranty at H-D. There were several production issues that I'll keep to myself as it's my competitive advantage over the guys who think the issues are based around flywheel design. It wasn't design, it was production.
They should have been welded...
@@s.v.gadder1443 Really? How many hundreds of thousands of them are out there running fine, since 1999? Welding is another Band Aid, as I described above.
I dig the twin cam because I’m a mechanic and get bored in the winter lol
Right?! I may be weird but I like bikes that require a some maintenance and work. I would get bored with my metrics to be honest, there just wasn't much of anything you could do to them. It's pretty much you get it as is and then you can't parts period for them in 5 years.
@@GixxerFoo But then before I bought my 09 twin cam I rode a 78 shovelhead, talk about busy winters...I have learned I would rather ride Harleys than rebuild/repair...am I missing something ? Because all I do now is clean it and keep the battery tender on it in case of a warm day or two that I can just fire it up and go for a ride in January or February...
Bravo man, great vid...I was hoping you'd follow up with this to educate the 03 and up TC88 owners...Especially if they've watched your (and others) video's on adding some power, and then thinking they can start tearing up streets with it.
Thank you! You can put decent power into one, ride it and enjoy it just don't go to the strip every weekend with it. A lot of failures I've seen came from someone putting a wild big bore, large cams, crazy compression and just thrashing it on a stock crank.
Been there done that. It destroyed my oil pump but that's it.
The only sign that I had (which I didn't know at the time) was the oil light kept coming on at idle while sitting still.
This happened at around 40k miles. 2005 Electra glide. It cost me $1200 to get fixed by a guy I know who is very good at Harley repair. A shop might charge twice that if they even want to touch it depending on the year.
40K is a lot of miles and Harley produce a lot of torque, should of been tacked at the factory. We love our Harleys though and gotta pay to play I guess. I am just thankful to hear you paid attention and caught it, got a good deal on a repair too! Did that include the tear down and reassembly for $1200?
@@GixxerFoo everything
Good video. I have a 2000 twin cam 88 with 38,000 miles. Opened up the cam chest to inspect the tensioner’s. Found little specs of metal and one or two tiny pieces of cam tensioner material.
Checked run out on the crankshaft and found it between zero and 2/1000. However, when I pulled the oil pump from the camp plate, I found scoring on the pump and the back of the cam plate. I’m thinking that’s what the metal in oil is from.
Now, I don’t understand how I have scoring on the pump and the back of the camp plate, but runout is well within tolerance.
That bowed shelf behing you was driving me nuts the whole time. It was screaming at me, look at me, look at me!!!!
😄😂 that shelf has a storied history on this channel, it's been there for many many years lol. I want to put together a new one but it's become quite the conversation piece.
Great video. I love my twin cam. Def want to put some more power into her. This was very helpful for planning it out.
Nice. I have a 96 softail 47k miles..I going to replace cam bearing and lifters..also just got 95 tc softail 18k miles. Someone put 3k in chrome got it for 8k...I going to check ✔ out per your advice this engine..I'm glad to find your posts..
Thank you! That is awesome! Cam bearing and lifters is key on that Evo, they eat some lifters with that pushrod angle. Sounds like you got a deal on that 95! Those 95's run hard with that short stroke!
Happy New Year and thanks for all the great info. I feel very lucky so far. 60k+ on my 03 Dyna, just did the upgrades I mentioned in other comments on your previous videos. But am now noticing some possible oil seepage from front lower rocker box. But other than that have to say it's running great. With the 525 cams it just loves cruising on highway at/and above 3000 rpm. Thanks for the videos.
Happy new year! With that mileage it's just likely the gasket, that's not uncommon at all. Not a bad time to pull it down and do a little inspection while you change that gasket out.
@GixxerFoo why has no reputable outfit like S&S or Jim's or T & O not come up with a rebuildable crank for these TC engines?
Does the SE 120st have a pressed crankshaft and potentially the same problem?
Good video, helpful information. Not likely an issue for most Harley riders as most owners ride no further than their local pub or breakfast spot.
It's really not a huge issue unless you really start putting some big power in the bike and really hammering on it when you ride. Exactly what you said though, the average rider won't have any issues at all.
Great video, between you and Kevin Baxter I have learned a ton about my 012 RK, Thanks.
Great to hear! Thank you, Kevin Baxter is awesome! I didn't even about him until he was mentioned a few times in the comments so I started watching his channel. He is very knowledgeable!
Great advice from your shows. Thanks. I have a 2010, 96. It's chipped and tuned stage 1. Runs very quick, partially because I can easily take it up to, but not often exceed 5600 redline. To give some idea, on a good day I can touch red in 6th gear. Crazy. With the boys though, I like to run it up. No burn outs done. But the engine is so smooth with no vibes at any speed. Always has. 30,000 km on bike. Should I be worried about this crankshaft thing? Did HD fix this problem of the 96's with the later years ? I'm a bit spooked now.
They are still pressed crank, they have got it about as good as it's gonna be for what it is by the time of the 96. What are Harley says is allowable run out will hurt your head, but with a stage setup and just riding the bike you shouldn't experience any issues.
I took my engine apart, runout was 12,000. I bought a Dark Horse Signature Series crank that was dead nuts. Well worth the cost.
Dark Horse makes some high quality products and they work! It's worth every penny when you that route, you have nothing worry about on that bike now!
Big Scott how much did the crank cost you?
@@28Mystry it was $1,700 for the signature series.
@@ScottR324 Thanks!
@@28Mystry you’re welcome brother.
I have a 2000 Road King 88ci that at 15,000 miles had the cam bearings fail. Harley had a recall on the bearings. The dealer had to change the cam bearings,oil pump and cam bearing plate. While he had it I had him install the 95 big bore kit and gear drive cams. I didn't know about run out at the time. Now I think I need to have it checked. I have 22,000 miles now.
You shouldn't have any run-out. The 200O has a forged crank, which means no crank pin and it's not pressed together. It's all one piece. Also you have the tempkien bearings Wouldn't be a bad idea to check the run out, but most good mechanics would have checked it before installing the gear drive cams.
Safe travels my friend.
The 88's had a that much more solid bottom end with the Timken bearings, the crank won't walk like it tended to do on later models. I would hope being a dealership with a qualified tech they would of checked the run out before installing the gear drive. But with it being an 88 it had a better crank and better bearings I would say your good to go. Never hurts to check though just for piece of mind.
👍 Exactly! Early 88's are solid when you get a gear drive in there!
@@butchcassidy3373 Please explain how they had "no crank pin." The only way they could have been "one piece" with "no crank pin" would have been a completely different design like a side by side automotive connecting rod set-up and not the old knife-in-fork Harley set-up. Thus, I'm afraid, you're statement and position on that score is incorrect.
Right on ! There are a few issues with 99 to 02 going out of true but I have tried & welded a few I tried them on my old shovel & Evo trying stand I just have to hit them pretty hard with my lead hammer but on 07 & up motors they have a undersize crank pin if u have one of those rebuilding or new S & S flywheels is the ticket ! All of the TC motors should have a timkin bearing conversion done period . Drag Specialties just started selling replacement crank pins & rods I have not tried them yet but I'll let u know ! I plan on making a jig to set them in when pressing them back together !
I agree! Timken is the way to go on those bottom ends, that's how were able to spin the XR750 up to 9 grand and keep it together. That undersized crank pin was a major part of the issues they had with that longer stroke in 2007. S&S makes some serious crank parts, they've done a lot of R&D and they work! Let me know when you try the Drag Specialties products, I am curious about those myself!
Was that an evo cam chest I saw ?
96ci. charging system is working good, brand new starter . Only when the bike is hot , half the time it makes a clunking and grinding noise. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you Doberman
I got 88 2003 keep up the good work cuz I watch it cuz I need to know what might happen thank you
Will do! The 88 is a solid motor, especially the carbed motors!
Is there a way to check serial numbers and tell if the engine I'm gonna buy is Timken or press fit?
Good information, thank you. Not likely an issue for many Harley riders as most owners don't ride any further than their local pub or breakfast spot.
Maybe in your circle
I ride a 2003 sportster 1275 superstock heads and beat it like a stepchild.... never had any issues from the pressed crank, its really only an issue when you start adding big power.... the sportsters are good for about 120hp before any big issues arise and the first one i noticed was the tranny bearings....
I ride Sportsters myself and honestly they are pretty bullet proof, they cranks are still Timken bottom ends and way stouter than the big twins.
I’m noticing my oil isn’t returning to the oil tank…(2008 Harley Crossbones Softail) I’m thinking my oil pump is f’ed and now you got me worried that my pinion is out of whack.
For sure a possibility on the oil pump, sounds like you're sumping. I would get that cam chest pulled down and put some eyes on that oil pump for sure. Check your pinion run out too, Harley oil pumps have a high tolerance, hopefully you can get away with just replacing the oil pump!
@@GixxerFoo hey thanks for the reply, wasn’t expecting but is much appreciated. I’m a disabled vet and this bike is all I have for transportation at the moment. My uncle wants me to first try just draining all the oil including the return line out of the crank so ALL the oil out. Although I don’t know what that’s gonna do…if it’s not being returned in the first place. My tank is bone dry after riding today in excess of 70mph for 20min. Smh
09 Fxdc,about 20,000 miles.
Been sitting for 2 years.Will try to get her hummin this summer.
Hopefully you'll be out on the road with us this summer!
You always share some great knowledge with everyone, Big RESPECT from Missouri GixxerFoo, and Happy New year to you and your family 🎊🎊🎊💯
Happy new year! Thank you, I hope your having a great New Year too!
Howdy Ozarks! Happy new year!
@@trippontwowheels hey Tripp, Happy New year to you and your family brother !!!!
I had a great fix for this problem. Has worked for 10 years now. See my Avatar, that is what I turned my LAST twin cam into. Problem solved, with a bike with cheaper and easily fixable problems!
My last Evo? Still have it, and she has 232K miles...and counting...'nough said? Had 2 twin cams...no more.
Evos forever forever Evo's
My 2007 Road King Classic has excessive shaking while idling but very smooth riding it around town and on the freeway, do I have pinion run out?
Thanks for your videos. Went with a '99 TC FXDL/S.
Thank you! That's awesome to find an early twin cam like that!!
This is like a course in Mechanical Engineering specifically geared for my bike. Thank you.
You're welcome, I was trying to keep it simple though lol.
Brother you didn't scare me away from a twin cam you scared me away from a Harley and I just want to thank you!
You didn't want a Harley anyways
@@joetroutt7425 🤑
It takes a lot of abuse to spin that crank, anything can mechanical fail including a Honda. It boils down to just not flat out abusing the engine, a lot of bikes with spun cranks that came into the shop where from flaming burnouts to impress the ladies 😄. Or just flat out putting a lot of power into the engine and beating on it hard.
@@GixxerFoo true my friend, and my bike abusing has always been on the track, and my mother made sure that the girls I hung around couldn't be impressed with a burnout. Lol
@@charlesmorris8491 Real ladies only want guys who ride Harley Livewires! (less noise, no maintenance = more time on the couch together).
Thirty thou runout in some cases? That seems a huge amount. Thanks for sharing Gixxerfoo.
Yeah .030 thousandths that's total engine failure, that's what crank runout has been when it was checked after a failure. That's a scenario when even the engines cases are not salvaged.
Yeah, anybody that knows anything about Motors would say .002 max, in MY OPINION.
Thats maximum! Harley really screwed the pooch on this one, dropping the timkin bearing was pure negligence!!!
Great piece bro, mine is a ‘01 88 TC. So thank you for passing along for all the ‘03 and up TC’swiyh the pressfit cranks. Happy New Year to ya Gixxerfoo!
Burnouts ✅
Drag racing ✅
High rpms ✅
Nitrous ✅
Bent crank, broken pinion bearing ✅
New S&S 106" stroker✅
For the record, over 40000 miles with no issues that weren't caused by abuse
Still no issues with the bent crank-broken pinion bearing?
@sigshootr9290 I've replaced the bent crank/broken bearing, running an S&S 106" stroker kit with the balancer shafts removed, only issue now is I've been breaking stator and rotor
so I missed it twice now. which years did Harley install the 'suspect' cranks?
Anything 2003 has the pressed cranks, you'll want to check run out on those before attempt a gear drive installation or cam plate.
Good morning 🌅, GixxerFoo, great info, This Deuce Dude from France, my bike is a 2003, early, is there a way of finding out when the bike/ engine was made by the serial number, as I have mentioned before, I do have a strange noise coming from the bike, last Friday I did go for a trip to HD themselves, from the comments it is just general wear and tear on the engine, couldn’t really hear any noise, On the way there, hi actually went through some places where I was running down to the speed limit to 3040 miles an hour and I could hear this horrible noise again, but once I got the power up, I’m doing 6070 miles an hour. It seems fine., At the shop here, any noise or such?, Then on the way back, I had some noticeable noise coming out of the engine again., I’m not sure whether it is the shafts or whether it could be the compensator, but there is definitely a strange noise coming from the bike, it’s approximately 50,000, The annoying thing is, I do not have a lot of money, as this bike has cost me a lot more money than I anticipated, buying it from the UK, My 2000 model I done a lot of work on it when I sold it it got 50,000 miles on the clock approximately had any issues with it at all, And I won’t really abusive to it, 😮🤥, I’m not too many times during the course of the week, 😂, it has been cams, S&S G510, but not sure whether it has got larger bore system on it, any thoughts be very much appreciated, It’s one of those things where you need to ride it, and then when the noise appears, obviously that will sign where it’s coming from, I was hoping that the tech will take it for a ride but you didn’t, ride safe,
That could be a lot of things going on there, they are going to need to ride it and listen to it as it sounds like you're describing the sound comes and goes with speed. Harleys do make some noise that's pure mechanical that you're not going to hear with other brands, that's just the nature of the bikes. If you're going to the shop they should be able to tell the difference, at least I would hope. You mentioned you had cams in the bike, aftermarket cams do make the valve train noisier since they have higher lift. Twin Cam motors aren't so bad with cams as far as noise but they are louder. Sporters sound like an absolute box of rocks with some bigger cams in them. Can you pin point roughly where the noise is coming from?
@@GixxerFoo mainly left hand side the top and bottom,
When start it up , it all sounds fine, about 20/30 miles, when I slow down or come to a stop, I can hear a funny noise coming from the engine,
There was a strange noise when I changed up from 3rd to 4th I thought at first I might have missed a gear , i’m hoping to try and keep the bike running at least for another two or three months, hopefully without doing any damage, as over the winter period I am going to strip it down, I think personally the bike was used for dirt track riding, it has had S&S cams put in it , it’s still got the original HD team plate, and it looks like the original oil pump as well, so my idea is is to strip all the cams chest out, check the run out on the crank, and then do whatever is necessary, Make sure that it is all sound, I’ve done somewhere between 5 to 600 miles since I’ve had it, and greatly enjoy it, it Brought a smile back to my face,
Just left a comment in another part of your territorial not quite sure whether you see it yet,
As you've said it, abusing the motor is what takes all the issues to the surface. For to that instance, revving up high all the time a H-D is not appropriate; if that's the case, a sport bike should be a better option. So, indeed, it is not an exclusively related issue to H-D; any motorcycle of any brand will suffer the same fate if abuse is induced. About the pressed pin, other brands do that as well. It is like people complaining about the drive chain tensioner: they just point out H-D for having implemented this"bad design" while not being aware that other manufacturers apply similar mechanisms in their so-called high technology engines.
Cheers and happy new year 2021.
I appreciate it! I grew up in a Kawasaki shop and even metrics can be completely trashed from abuse. Even a Honda can and will fail if it's abused, we took used bikes on trade that went to wholesale cause of issues related to just beating on them. You can bullet proof a Harley with a built crank, Timken bottom end, built cam chest etc. and go thrash on it. It will take it a lot longer but eventually something will let go. I hope your having an awesome New Year!
2011 Softail 96” with 123,000, been a 106”for the last 15,000....crank untouched...for the cost you might as well wait till it actually blows up before you rebuild it...also all 08 and up have the “Lefty” bearing installed..24605-07 is the bearing that comes in the “lefty” kit, also used on the right side. They are the same bearing used in the 120r race engines. Plenty of people running 110’s with 117” big bore kits with the exact same crankshaft and bearing my 96” came with.
The cranks having issues is pretty rare anymore, there were some issues but it really wasn't wide spread. Best way to go about is get a Dark Horse crank, they are pretty reasonable and they are strong as hell if your going all the way down to rebuild.
I do have an 03 88 cu and want to put a gear drive system in it if I check the pinion run out and if it's in that 3000 and install the gear drive system am I still going to have problems down the road with the crank thank you
You really want to be .002 or less, sometimes you can get away with as much as .003. Safe bet and a lot less expensive is a cam plate and hydraulic tensioners. They do really well and you don't have to worry about run out.
@@GixxerFoo I had a year 2088 I should have kept it
Is 7thou a crazy number? Currently replacing the Screamin Eagle cam plate kit and I’ve heard that mushrooming can happen at 5thou plus.
Will 7thou cause issues ?
Happy New Year...thanks for all your contributions...
Happy new year! We appreciate your support over here on the channel!
Yo i have a 2013 street bob with the tc96a...ever heard of anyone having crank issues with that era of dynas? Thanks for any help or insight
I have that year and model. Mine is being rebuilt now. 23k miles and I ride it nice and easy and change oil often. Glad I did not blow it up.
When I spun my flywheels I developed a sudden vibration. And on the b motor there is a sprocket that runs the balancers. There is a arrow on this sprocket and it should point directly down from the crank pin and it is only pressed on. Spin it 45 degrees and it's like riding a jackhammer on 2 wheels.
🤔 so you felt almost immediately what was going on down there?! I uh don't think I have ever seen a B motor do that before. To be honest I think I would of shit my pants running down the road and felt that happen.
Hi...love the vid.
Help my 2005 softail is sumping in 4 days, just a little on dip stick?
Had bottom end rebuilt.
Fueling camplate, new HF oil pump, now its sumping, just when sitting?? Is it doing it while it's running, idk. No oil out of nre as ther at start up though. Good sign? Help ty
Breather, meant to say
I'm looking at a 2012 Fat Boy. Would this have been a problem that far down the line?
I have an 04 RK classic I already have stage 1 on it arlen ness filter, v&h fuelpak and V&H dual slip ons. I purchased the S&S 509 standard gear drive cam chest kit but now I'm confused which s&s flywheel is the right choice for my cam kit?
I'm at 50,000 on my 2006 Roadking still rolling strong.
That's exactly why I say there are thousands of Harleys out their running miles and doing well without an issue! People hear about one failure and throw their hands up, cranks do spin and fail but it's not every bike. I have only seen it happen a few times and it was related to a hot top end and some serious abuse. Now that abuse was over many many miles too!
@@GixxerFoo the only thing I do is take it to a local shop here called Jim's Cycle shop. They do all my services inhave not had a major breakdown yet.
I had about 90K on my 2006 Softail when my crank screwed up. I'd put on a 100" S&S kit without really knowing this was possible.
I was hauling about 100MPH down the road and downshifted a gear while cracking open the gas. Suddenly I got a sound that the local shop had never heard and when they opened it up, most of the bike was shredded. Ended up rebuilding the engine for $10K with a trued, welded, upgraded crank and bearings from Darkhorse.
@@AC-cg4be dude you could have bought a creat engine from S&S that was fully built already for $6,795. Thats what I'm saving up for.
You did help explain and I appreciate it you just validated that the pressed togather flywheels are crap exactly why I no longer have my 06 heritage and now ride a Evo softail
What is that guage called you use to measure runoff?
Keep ‘em coming Gixx!
Will do! Looks like you've been busy over on your channel too!
@@GixxerFoo Appreciate it bud! My last two videos are actually doing well. Thanks for noticing. Happy new year! -Tripp
The two flywheels are obviously machined concentric with splines complete and pressed and trued. Maybe the factory should have welded them. They probably tried to get the crank lighter thus losing press fit area. Was a problem on one old model air cooled four cylinder Kawashaky.
And people still say its a waste to spend money on a shovelhead or early evo my evo actually broke a crank but my 1981 on one rebuild and yes two top ends but still a daily rider in 2023..not a huge powerful bike but still going and gets me where I am going, but most of my bike is now S&S but she is still a 3 kick.
Yup; just caught your video.
Well the retired hd mech said he always put timken bearing in when in bottom end . He says he’s seen more twin cam rod bearings go than crank bearings . Dosent like the twin cam rod bearings with heat treated process instead of rod races . ✊🏻👍👌
You get a TC bottom end setup with the proper tolerance with Tinken bearings it will last forever.
@@GixxerFoo yup ; he’s put in a lot of the timken bearing kits . Says he’s got a set of Jim’s flywheels 4 1/2 stroke I could have rebuilt . Would give to me .Can’t beat Jim’s USA stuff .
Well ; more money 😁 we’ll see . Got my lotto ticket.😁
✊🏻👍👌
Great stuff as usual. Happy New Year 👍👍👍
Thank you! Cheers! I hope you're having a wonderful New Year!
I have a 2015 street glide with 25,000 miles. Started to get excessive vibrations from idle all the way to 2200 rpm then is smooths out completely. First was told needs motor mounts, changed those still same vibration, then told need updated compensator. Installed a new one still vibrating. If the crankshaft tolerant was not in spec wouldnt the vabration get wrose with more rpm?
If the crankshaft run out is high it will throw the balance off and you may be experiencing the crank coming in and out of balance. I would for sure check the run out, the acceptable run out spec is pretty high. That doesn't mean it's right and you won't notice it either.
I had 1 thou runout when I installed my gear drives (02 bike, pre junk bearings). I would consider anything over 3 a busted crank. I would love to install an S&S crank, but dam.. that is some serious money.
Change the heads the cams the crank and the fuel system. Potato potato patato. Did I mention the compensator.
@@ralphwatten2426 Did it all (except crank)... funny you bring up Compensator.. Got a 2k+ trip coming up, so also changed out primary chain, belt drive, Compensator, and rear shocks. Funny how it takes awhile to make a grand, but only 5 minutes to spend it on the scooter!
@@hawkdsl Hey Hawk, can you still call it a Harley Davidson?
@@ralphwatten2426 LOL, oh sure! well.. hmm.. 98% HD.. I've only got a few non-harley parts. I had Short Block Charlie redo my stock heads.. I've got HD 95 cans with Weisco 10-1 pistons.. Comp cam lifters with CycleRama cams. S&S gear drives. Screaming chicken plate & oil pump. Progressive rear shock and front springs. Screaming chicken 6 speed. HD wheels and matching sprocket. Dyatona Twin Tech ignition. 44 CV/SE Intake/V&H long shots with cross over.
@@hawkdsl Not sure but I think it might be less than 98%. Won't be long before they won't sell you a t-shirt.
I have a 2014 Street glide with a 103. Are my problems the same. What do I need to do to make better.
They still used the pressed cranks, but the late model 103's 2014 and later really were pretty good. They had those motors pretty well straightened out before they went to the M8.
Thanks again FooMan, Happy New Year to you and yours.
Happy new year! I hope it was helpful!
Heck yeah it's helpful, don't get this in a manual.
Automatically I throw a thumbs up 👍🏻. Excellent videos
Much appreciated!
Wished I saw this about a week ago. Upgraded my 88cc to a 95 big bore. The only thing I did not change was the flywheel. Big mistake !! Only 642 miles.
Never had any problems with my 07 FLHRC (85,287 miles).
Im afraid this just happened to my 99 evo sportster. Getting to know my bike very well now.... Planning entire rebuild, any recommendations for machine shops in LA area?
Mine has 4,800 miles on it.
On my way to work and the oil pressure light came one. It will still start and run (barely) but the crank needs fixing or replacing.
The shame is the bike is an ‘05 and looks like it’s brand new, just can’t ride it.
Dang that sucks, I'm sorry to hear that. Hopefully you can get that motor out and tore down, great time to get it all built back up with some solid components.
This is why I will always pick an evo sportster over a twin cam model.
Dear Gixxerfoo, hope you are very well, which Flywheel could you advise me, darkhorse or S and S if I wish to upgrade my original 103 CI, I upgraded as you know for a 117 well prepared... With Reaper 594 cams from feuling and everything else I mentioned you in a previous message, for which I thank you again to have answered... 😊... Which crankshaft would you recommand.. If there is one much better or stronger than another.. I would love to turn the throttle without any doubts in the future.. Thank you very much for your help.. 🙏🤞
Dark Horse products are very hard to beat! They are high quality and strong components, plus you don't have the price associated with S&S.
Finding a HD dealership with mechanics who know how to properly assemble an early 5pc or later 3pc "taper'' pin and shafts is getting impossible. Tapers can turn lots of torque , but the tapers must be CLEAN and SMOOTH before assembly! I actually talked to one 'technician' who sez you must scuff and use Loctite on the tapers prior to assembly!!!!
What would be the best year to buy? Which one is the more reliable knowing I could probably do some maintenance on it? Already rebuild a carburator, change brakes, changed oils... But not sure I could rebuild a complete engine by my own.
The most trouble free twin cam to me would be the 103's 2012 and up. They really seemed to have the issues worked out by then.
I built lower ends for Harleys for about 40 years and I never let one out of my shop that had more than .001 " run out in the flywheels.
When I saw the factory specs on a twin cam that said they would allow as much as .012 " on the flywheels, I knew crap had gone downhill bad.
Happy New Year 🥳
Happy new year!! I hope you're having a good one!
Glad I love my Sportsters at my age
When I got my 103 upgrade on my 09. 96cube I asked ab that and they said I didn’t need it. Or comp releases .. 🤷🏻♂️
that's good advice its been out there for yrs.
Is this issue also present with the M8 engine?
The M8 does have a pressed crank, but they used a larger crank pin. So far I haven't seen any issues with the M8's crank, just the oil sumping issue which it looks like they got that squared away. There's a lot of miles on the M8 now and the cranks have proved to be very stout. Part of the twin cam's issue I should of mentioned is the crank pin is honestly undersized.
I wish I would have watched all these videos on the twin cams problems before I bought my 2017 Low Rider S. Does the Screaming Eagle 110 have the same crank as the 103? I never worried about anything on my Sportster. That bike was bullet proof. Do the M8's share the same problem?
The 110 does share the same crank, they are a pressed assembly. It's not a guaranteed failure point though fortunately. There are thousands and thousands of Harleys running out there with a pressed crank assembly. It becomes an issue when someone builds a big horsepower engine and starts thrashing it with that stock crank. You can put some damn good power into your 110 and be just fine. Just don't go drag racing every weekend on it and doing flaming burnouts to impress the ladies 😄😄👍.
I highly recommend you check the runout on your crankshaft. It's not difficult and gives you the chance to make a few upgrades if you have the funds available.
Thanks for explaining this about the TC engines, good info to have.
In my case, my weird little harley has a single-piece forged crank, and it runs on plain bearings pressurized with oil like a car engine. It's been as reliable as a Honda Civic so far.
Twin Cams have their issues, but if you ride it as a cruiser and not a drag bike they will do really well. What Harley do you have that runs plain bearings?
@@GixxerFoo 750 street rod.
@@Oddman1980 you don't have a real harley. You have an Indian made copy of a Honda Shadow and cafe racer clothes and a belt drive instead of the shaft drive the original bike had.
@@frankmarkovcijr5459 The Streets sold in the US are mad in York, PA
@@Oddman1980 they are Made in India. They might be put together at York but they are Made in India. Like I said they are a copy of a 30-year-old Honda Shadow in Cafe Racer clothes instead of Cruiser outfit and it has a belt drive instead of the shaft drive the original bike had. It is not a real Harley it was a pathetic attempt to get new Riders and it failed abysmally. If you took a Honda CB 754 and put a Harley badge on the gas tank it wouldn't make it a Harley. Now Harley sold little bikes made by aromachi in Italy but they owned the company. In the AMF days they had a nice variety of bikes for anybody who came in the door but they were really only interested in selling big expensive motorcycles like today. I rode Hondas for 20 years and bought three of them brand spanking new. They were great bikes until the day they died and then they were unfixable. My old-fashioned Evolution Powers Sportster has 400,000 miles on it and it outlasted my Honda cx-500 which had the cam chain broke at $250,000 miles and it destroyed the engine. For you it might be a perfectly good motorcycle and enjoy it but it is not a Harley by any means at all. Enough said.