The Issue With The Twin Cam Crankshafts | Harley-Davidson Cut Costs
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- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2024
- You may of heard that Harley-Davidson pressed the crankshaft assembly together on the Twin Cam and that it's not a good thing. It's not necessarily a bad thing either, in most cases it does work really well and you can still build some decent power on the stock crank. Issues with the pressed crankshaft are hit and miss just like the cam chain tensioners on the early Twin Cam engine. We'll take a look at the issues, what it takes to fix a factory crank, what the signs of a crankshaft problem are and some practical solutions and tips to keep your bike running strong.
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Would you replace your crankshaft or have a machine shop balance, true and weld your stock crankshaft?
I'll sell mine for whatever i can get and buy a Rocket3 or a V-Max. I wish i'd have watched yours, and other vids...
I think that if I do anymore upgrades to my engine (Going to a Sidewinder 100 Kit) I would probably just buy a S&S aftermarket crank. Yeah I am also not hard on the bike minus getting on it at highway speeds. Thanks for a great video! Happy New Years Man!
I would probably send my crank in to be balanced trued and welded, but I think the real question is when to do it? 🤔. All these top end power kits put a lot of pressure on the bottom half. Do you do the crank preemptively? Do you wait and do it when you do your top end? Do you do it after a certain mileage threshold (i.e. 90,000 miles)? Or do you do it only if you have signs of run out? This is a good segment to all those guys who want a big motor kit to show off to their friends. They need to think about the vitality of their entire motor, top and bottom.
Great topic...as usual.
Dark Horse if you can afford it. They are perfect every time and built tough.
I’m currently getting my crank, rods & bearings redone on my 14 TC, didn’t break, but at 57k miles, I’m having an engine upgrade. Time to retire and I’m about to hit a few bucket list places. I pull a trailer and a heavy load.
As crank was split apart, discovered corrosion on bearings and rods. Needed new rods and bearings. It will be balanced, trued, and welded when done. The cost is little cheaper than buying new, and I will know that runout is and should stay acceptable tolerance.
Its nice that Harley-Davidson lets its customers do most of the research and development but still charges them for it with high sales prices.
😆😂👍 that sounds about right
There's nothing wrong with Harleys TC motor....the key is like anything mechanical don't abuse it...l have 2 2006 Harleys with 75000 miles on each with all stock parts...now if you're gonna go to Sturgis get drunk and go do burnouts like a fucking asswipe then expect parts to break...peace
@@terryduncan5718 I bet you’ve ruined a party or three just by showing up! 🤡🤡🤡
@@terryduncan5718 well apparently there is!!🙄
@@terryduncan5718disagree. 100 percent. You're just a lucky duck.
We did a build on my 03 Lowrider and it made real good torque and HP. Now half my friends are warning I should have welded the crank pin and half are telling me not to stress over it. The most logical voices say it will be fine unless I start drag racing and doing burnouts.
I like to spin the tire😅
I would always recommend having the flywheels true and welded for 'Hot Rod' builds, did this to my '02 and have ridden it like I stole it for over 160,000 miles.
If you're down that far in the motor you'd be crazy not to while you're there.
A superb production and teaching moment as usual!!! 👍👍
From Southern California ~ Ride Forever! 🦅 🇺🇸
Thank you! I appreciate the support on the channel!
@@GixxerFoo 👍😎
Thanks for the informative vlog regarding the twin cam crank. 195K+ on my stock 96. Keep it coming. Thanks
Thank you for the support on the channel!! 195K that's very very impressive!
Can you do a video comparing aftermarket cranks and their prices? Also maybe touch on bearing upgrades. That would be an awesome and informative video.
Great suggestion! That's not a bad idea at all, there's really only one option on bearing and that's the Timken tapered bearings, but conversion is another story. Aftermarket cranks vary widely and I thinks that's a great subject to cover!
@@GixxerFoo yes, do this.. and be ready for the sticker shock.
I have bought and sold over 70 Harleys the twin cam 88 engine is my favorite never had a single problem my 05 Springer is the keeper
Between the flywheel and chain tensioner issues both lunching engines as well as the death wobble from the rubberband models I'm glad I have an old FX Shovelhead.
Shovel Head is built like a tank, Harley got into a lot of ridiculous cost cutting measures and it hurt the reliability.
I have 04 cases on my 95B and opted to put in the JIMS sleeve for Timken, bought the tool and did it myself. I put in an S&S 4" crank with pre 03 crankpin, set the clearance and never looked back. I installed gear drive cams, had great backlash and was worried cause I never heard the infamous "gear whine"! Anyway, I had heard that when the 96" came out that they were notorious for the Crankpin moving, hence my apprehension for not going with anything beyond a 4" stroke. This was a GREAT segment Gixxer and have a Happy New Year!!!
Thank you! You got one hell of a setup on your crank, that's about bullet proof. Personally I like the sound of the gear whine, I imagine your timing is spot on running those gears. Yeah 2007 to 2009 96's had the compensator issues and the crank coming out of balance with the fly wheels shifting on the crank pin. It was a really hit or miss deal, but it seems like something Harley quietly fixed as time went on.
Hi, awesome set up. I have the same as you do. i have 2005, 15th anniv fatboy, with 95B,new s&s crank, fueling camplate,lifters and hf oil pump. already had andrews 37 g in it, and yes hearing gear whine, when hot mostly, sounding tinny and high pitch bearing/gear sound. ?? no?? little backlash is normal.
@@-MrRichBiker1967 Yeah, I have the entire Feuling set up as well, plate, pump, lifters, etc. and am running cast Screamin Eagle flat tops, along with S&S Super Stock heads w/1.94 intake valves and it's @ about 9.75:1 static comp.
Very true on the oil build up. A couple of days before my oilpump gave up I had a big oil leak from the breathers. And indeed it failed. New set up with fueling camplate etc etc.
That's the way do it if you have a failure like that, don't go back with OEM and go with some high quality aftermarket parts!
I miss the old shop with its gravity defying shelf and its lived in, homey look, GixerFoo.
I do miss that little shop a lot myself too, I need to bring back the shelf just cause. I seriously couldn't believe how popular the shelf was back in the day lmfao.
@@GixxerFoo, I think, in all honesty, that all of us talking about the shelf liked the guy next door it gave to your shop and to your videos when we first began watching them.
@@chrish5791💯. I can tinker a little bit still need a Gixxer foo neighbor!
I never realized how good my old Sportster was until I got a TC-88.
I rode the Sportster for 7 years and did nothing but oil changes on it. I bought a twin cam 88 and so far I have replace the entire cam chest and oil pump and I still worry about the crankshaft. Yeah my crank is in spec but that doesn't mean it will stay in spec.
This was my biggest fear when I purchased my 2013 Ultra. As I have told you before my runout was .006 at 60,000 miles which in my mind is excessive. Luckily my cam plate and oil pump had zero visible wear. I now have 123,500 miles and I'm obsessing over my next check which will be coming soon. I hope to hit 200,000 on the stock crank mostly for bragging then do a total rebuild. Like you said maintenance and how you ride is key.
Harley says upwards of .012 is acceptable with chain driven cams, but yeah I am with you that's a lot more than I would like. .006 with that mileage isn't too bad according to Harley, do you have any crazy vibration or anything (out of the norm for a Harley)?
@@GixxerFoo No vibration but I rarely rev it over 3,500 RPMs.
@Peter Angles I do not rev it past 3,500 because of the cam I installed. It produces the most torque from idle to 4,000 RPMs. The engine now has 139,000 miles and the crank is still the same as when it was new.
@Peter Angles
Honestly I rarely Rev mine that high either. Not out of fear but simply because it has plenty of torque and power at low RPM's.
Recently bought a 2012 Limited. Absolutely love it.
I worked on one of these it was a 2004 I think. As soon as I got the top end off I realized something was wrong with the crankshaft. In addition the cam shoe was totally worn out. I had him come get it that is not the work I can do is have no access to a machine shop anymore. He only had 41K on it. That Twin Cam convinced me to sell both my Twin Cams. I sold my 02 FLSTC and me 01 FLHRCI Road King. I bought a low mileage one owner 98 FLSTF Fatboy my Twin Cam problem is now solved. I have it and my 72 FLH I have had for 32 years. For my money the Shovelhead was the best motor Harley ever made. Super easy to work on my buke is very reliable.
If someone get's one with the shoes wore completely out like that it's a time bomb. He's lucky that motor hadn't locked up tight with the shoes gone. That Evo and Shovel will last a lifetime, they will just do what they do and they don't really care what anyone thinks.
@@GixxerFoo I am not sure the shoe tensioner didn't cause it to lock up. I stopped working on it as soon as i saw the crankshaft had something going on. The shop he took it to told him the motor was a loss since the case was cracked too. I didn't see that when I had it. I am a private guy who does side work in my garage. I did put in a hydraulic chain tensioner in a twin cam for a guy who bought all the gear pullers and parts. I never did one so i watched a RUclips video and had no problem doing it. . I saw enough problems in the few twin cams I worked on to make me sell mine.
I dig the twin cam because I’m a mechanic and get bored in the winter lol
Right?! I may be weird but I like bikes that require a some maintenance and work. I would get bored with my metrics to be honest, there just wasn't much of anything you could do to them. It's pretty much you get it as is and then you can't parts period for them in 5 years.
@@GixxerFoo But then before I bought my 09 twin cam I rode a 78 shovelhead, talk about busy winters...I have learned I would rather ride Harleys than rebuild/repair...am I missing something ? Because all I do now is clean it and keep the battery tender on it in case of a warm day or two that I can just fire it up and go for a ride in January or February...
When I took my RK from a 96 to a 110 I also went ahead with the S&S crank. Figured I might as well get ahead of any issues that might come with the stock one.
We NEVER saw flywheel issues in any great numbers until 2006. I was working warranty at H-D. There were several production issues that I'll keep to myself as it's my competitive advantage over the guys who think the issues are based around flywheel design. It wasn't design, it was production.
They should have been welded...
@@s.v.gadder1443 Really? How many hundreds of thousands of them are out there running fine, since 1999? Welding is another Band Aid, as I described above.
Thanks for your videos. Went with a '99 TC FXDL/S.
Thank you! That's awesome to find an early twin cam like that!!
Thank you for the diagram and explanation of how the crank gets spun. Now I get it. Mine's a 1999 and so far, so good on the crank. Will look at the runout though just in case.
Glad it helped, your 99 has got the bullet proof Timken bottom end! The cranks were a lot more solid from 99 to 02, they used a larger crank pin those years. In 2007 on the 96 they used a smaller crank pin and increased the stroke. That created some serious issues!
@@GixxerFoo Good news, thank you. I am probably safe to stack some power into that system, and that's my next move!
That’s why had Darkhorse do a lightening job as well as welded pin and sprocket (since it’s a Softail) then, when I got it back I bought the Jim’s Timken bearing conversion kit and set mine runout at 0.002”... still running SE Hydro plate w/ chains
That's a bullet proof setup! You shouldn't never have an issue running it like that!
2012 ultra, At 10k, did chain guides and crank run-out was 4 thousandth. At 18k, it started 1 morning and was vibrating like crazy. Pulled the cam cover and crank run-out was 24 thousandth. It's obvious what happened. Pulled the motor and sent it to my guy. 8k later, new stroker crank, big bore kit, etc. Timken bearing kit, gear drive cams, and that was the best friend price in 2016. I must say has been rock solid since. 130hp/130 torque. Updated primary and now at 69k. I was pissed off, to say the least, about such a crap crank design. I've put at least 16k in that bike since new. 😂
There's really nothing good about the factory Harley cranks!
Brother you didn't scare me away from a twin cam you scared me away from a Harley and I just want to thank you!
You didn't want a Harley anyways
@@joetroutt7425 🤑
It takes a lot of abuse to spin that crank, anything can mechanical fail including a Honda. It boils down to just not flat out abusing the engine, a lot of bikes with spun cranks that came into the shop where from flaming burnouts to impress the ladies 😄. Or just flat out putting a lot of power into the engine and beating on it hard.
@@GixxerFoo true my friend, and my bike abusing has always been on the track, and my mother made sure that the girls I hung around couldn't be impressed with a burnout. Lol
@@charlesmorris8491 Real ladies only want guys who ride Harley Livewires! (less noise, no maintenance = more time on the couch together).
Twin Cam is JUNK. My 1989 EVO FXRS Low Rider has been running just fine since, well, 1989. No crankshaft problems, no cam chain tensioner problems, and NO overheating problems. It doesn't need a hack to shut down the rear cylinder in stop and go traffic, it doesn't need bolt on fans on the cylinders to keep them from melting down, it runs right around 200 degrees F oil temp, even in Arizona. Most Twin Cams run closer to 300 degrees F. And when (or if) it ever wears out, it can be easily and cheaply rebuilt. Or I could replace the whole engine with an S&S, but I'd rather keep it all H-D.
You can't beat that Evo for sure, the twin cam had to meet emissions and running them hot was about the only way to do it. Between the EPA, Harley cutting costs and styling refusing an oil cooler on the twin cam it could never be as solid as the Evo.
Aaahajaaahahahha Twin cam is far superior than the EVO !! I own them all, from a knuckle to a new M8!!
No problems from my 03 twin cam and I have 100 hp and tq dyno numbers... can your Evo say that?? NO!! SHUT YO MOUTH HAHA😅😅
Good video, helpful information. Not likely an issue for most Harley riders as most owners ride no further than their local pub or breakfast spot.
It's really not a huge issue unless you really start putting some big power in the bike and really hammering on it when you ride. Exactly what you said though, the average rider won't have any issues at all.
That bowed shelf behing you was driving me nuts the whole time. It was screaming at me, look at me, look at me!!!!
😄😂 that shelf has a storied history on this channel, it's been there for many many years lol. I want to put together a new one but it's become quite the conversation piece.
Good information, thank you. Not likely an issue for many Harley riders as most owners don't ride any further than their local pub or breakfast spot.
Maybe in your circle
I'm at 50,000 on my 2006 Roadking still rolling strong.
That's exactly why I say there are thousands of Harleys out their running miles and doing well without an issue! People hear about one failure and throw their hands up, cranks do spin and fail but it's not every bike. I have only seen it happen a few times and it was related to a hot top end and some serious abuse. Now that abuse was over many many miles too!
@@GixxerFoo the only thing I do is take it to a local shop here called Jim's Cycle shop. They do all my services inhave not had a major breakdown yet.
I had about 90K on my 2006 Softail when my crank screwed up. I'd put on a 100" S&S kit without really knowing this was possible.
I was hauling about 100MPH down the road and downshifted a gear while cracking open the gas. Suddenly I got a sound that the local shop had never heard and when they opened it up, most of the bike was shredded. Ended up rebuilding the engine for $10K with a trued, welded, upgraded crank and bearings from Darkhorse.
@@AC-cg4be dude you could have bought a creat engine from S&S that was fully built already for $6,795. Thats what I'm saving up for.
I took my engine apart, runout was 12,000. I bought a Dark Horse Signature Series crank that was dead nuts. Well worth the cost.
Dark Horse makes some high quality products and they work! It's worth every penny when you that route, you have nothing worry about on that bike now!
Big Scott how much did the crank cost you?
@@28Mystry it was $1,700 for the signature series.
@@ScottR324 Thanks!
@@28Mystry you’re welcome brother.
Great video. I love my twin cam. Def want to put some more power into her. This was very helpful for planning it out.
Good video. I have a 2000 twin cam 88 with 38,000 miles. Opened up the cam chest to inspect the tensioner’s. Found little specs of metal and one or two tiny pieces of cam tensioner material.
Checked run out on the crankshaft and found it between zero and 2/1000. However, when I pulled the oil pump from the camp plate, I found scoring on the pump and the back of the cam plate. I’m thinking that’s what the metal in oil is from.
Now, I don’t understand how I have scoring on the pump and the back of the camp plate, but runout is well within tolerance.
Nice. I have a 96 softail 47k miles..I going to replace cam bearing and lifters..also just got 95 tc softail 18k miles. Someone put 3k in chrome got it for 8k...I going to check ✔ out per your advice this engine..I'm glad to find your posts..
Thank you! That is awesome! Cam bearing and lifters is key on that Evo, they eat some lifters with that pushrod angle. Sounds like you got a deal on that 95! Those 95's run hard with that short stroke!
Happy New Year and thanks for all the great info. I feel very lucky so far. 60k+ on my 03 Dyna, just did the upgrades I mentioned in other comments on your previous videos. But am now noticing some possible oil seepage from front lower rocker box. But other than that have to say it's running great. With the 525 cams it just loves cruising on highway at/and above 3000 rpm. Thanks for the videos.
Happy new year! With that mileage it's just likely the gasket, that's not uncommon at all. Not a bad time to pull it down and do a little inspection while you change that gasket out.
@GixxerFoo why has no reputable outfit like S&S or Jim's or T & O not come up with a rebuildable crank for these TC engines?
I had a great fix for this problem. Has worked for 10 years now. See my Avatar, that is what I turned my LAST twin cam into. Problem solved, with a bike with cheaper and easily fixable problems!
My last Evo? Still have it, and she has 232K miles...and counting...'nough said? Had 2 twin cams...no more.
Evos forever forever Evo's
I have a 2000 Road King 88ci that at 15,000 miles had the cam bearings fail. Harley had a recall on the bearings. The dealer had to change the cam bearings,oil pump and cam bearing plate. While he had it I had him install the 95 big bore kit and gear drive cams. I didn't know about run out at the time. Now I think I need to have it checked. I have 22,000 miles now.
You shouldn't have any run-out. The 200O has a forged crank, which means no crank pin and it's not pressed together. It's all one piece. Also you have the tempkien bearings Wouldn't be a bad idea to check the run out, but most good mechanics would have checked it before installing the gear drive cams.
Safe travels my friend.
The 88's had a that much more solid bottom end with the Timken bearings, the crank won't walk like it tended to do on later models. I would hope being a dealership with a qualified tech they would of checked the run out before installing the gear drive. But with it being an 88 it had a better crank and better bearings I would say your good to go. Never hurts to check though just for piece of mind.
👍 Exactly! Early 88's are solid when you get a gear drive in there!
@@butchcassidy3373 Please explain how they had "no crank pin." The only way they could have been "one piece" with "no crank pin" would have been a completely different design like a side by side automotive connecting rod set-up and not the old knife-in-fork Harley set-up. Thus, I'm afraid, you're statement and position on that score is incorrect.
I got 88 2003 keep up the good work cuz I watch it cuz I need to know what might happen thank you
Will do! The 88 is a solid motor, especially the carbed motors!
This is like a course in Mechanical Engineering specifically geared for my bike. Thank you.
You're welcome, I was trying to keep it simple though lol.
Right on ! There are a few issues with 99 to 02 going out of true but I have tried & welded a few I tried them on my old shovel & Evo trying stand I just have to hit them pretty hard with my lead hammer but on 07 & up motors they have a undersize crank pin if u have one of those rebuilding or new S & S flywheels is the ticket ! All of the TC motors should have a timkin bearing conversion done period . Drag Specialties just started selling replacement crank pins & rods I have not tried them yet but I'll let u know ! I plan on making a jig to set them in when pressing them back together !
I agree! Timken is the way to go on those bottom ends, that's how were able to spin the XR750 up to 9 grand and keep it together. That undersized crank pin was a major part of the issues they had with that longer stroke in 2007. S&S makes some serious crank parts, they've done a lot of R&D and they work! Let me know when you try the Drag Specialties products, I am curious about those myself!
I bought a 2020 farboy new. By 2k miles crank runout 4.5thou. Vibration got worse. Dealer re checked at 4k miles. Runout was 8.5thou. They agreed to replace under warranty. Had the bike in the shop for 10 months.Said they replaced the crank. Runout readings were exactly the same.Yes, they lied. Dealership are bad, Harley Australia are even worse.They will do anything to avoid fixing this well known problem. Was advised to seek a legal opinion. Checked with my lawyer and was informed i would win the case but could only expect to receive 60% of my court costs. Harley would keep the bike and drag the case out for years. Yes, they aren't nice people. Every one should be warned about this problem. Do your research guys. This is a lot more common than they admit. Thx gixerfoo.
That's horrible to hear, Harley actually upped the allowable runout to what they say 0.014 measured in the engine... that's absolute insanity. I believe it but I can't believe they just wouldn't make it right, especially in this day and age with how fast information travels about things.
@GixxerFoo Thanks for reply mate. I will also like to add that the manager of the dealership suggested to sell it back to them at a 25% loss. When questioned about selling it on to a fellow enthusiast with the knowledge of the impending engine failure he just smirked. Such is their integrity. I could not do that to anyone, let alone a fellow rider. So disgusted with this experience. $32 600 spent and now i just clean and polish the thing. Hardly ever ride it for fear of it breaking. Never done a burn out and only been above 5k rpm a few times. Only bike i ever bought new in my 60yrs. Bitter disappointment. Once again its thanks to people like you, Kevin Baxter and other youtubers who can highlight these issues to the community. Much appreciation and thanks.I'd like to think harley would care but i know they dont. Cheers
2011 Softail 96” with 123,000, been a 106”for the last 15,000....crank untouched...for the cost you might as well wait till it actually blows up before you rebuild it...also all 08 and up have the “Lefty” bearing installed..24605-07 is the bearing that comes in the “lefty” kit, also used on the right side. They are the same bearing used in the 120r race engines. Plenty of people running 110’s with 117” big bore kits with the exact same crankshaft and bearing my 96” came with.
The cranks having issues is pretty rare anymore, there were some issues but it really wasn't wide spread. Best way to go about is get a Dark Horse crank, they are pretty reasonable and they are strong as hell if your going all the way down to rebuild.
09 Fxdc,about 20,000 miles.
Been sitting for 2 years.Will try to get her hummin this summer.
Hopefully you'll be out on the road with us this summer!
that's good advice its been out there for yrs.
As you've said it, abusing the motor is what takes all the issues to the surface. For to that instance, revving up high all the time a H-D is not appropriate; if that's the case, a sport bike should be a better option. So, indeed, it is not an exclusively related issue to H-D; any motorcycle of any brand will suffer the same fate if abuse is induced. About the pressed pin, other brands do that as well. It is like people complaining about the drive chain tensioner: they just point out H-D for having implemented this"bad design" while not being aware that other manufacturers apply similar mechanisms in their so-called high technology engines.
Cheers and happy new year 2021.
I appreciate it! I grew up in a Kawasaki shop and even metrics can be completely trashed from abuse. Even a Honda can and will fail if it's abused, we took used bikes on trade that went to wholesale cause of issues related to just beating on them. You can bullet proof a Harley with a built crank, Timken bottom end, built cam chest etc. and go thrash on it. It will take it a lot longer but eventually something will let go. I hope your having an awesome New Year!
And people still say its a waste to spend money on a shovelhead or early evo my evo actually broke a crank but my 1981 on one rebuild and yes two top ends but still a daily rider in 2023..not a huge powerful bike but still going and gets me where I am going, but most of my bike is now S&S but she is still a 3 kick.
Automatically I throw a thumbs up 👍🏻. Excellent videos
Much appreciated!
Hello, thank you for your informative videos. The S.E. "Lefty Bearing" does NOT address crankshaft end-play, a major problem with elimination of the Timken bearing set-up. I was disappointed that you even mentioned the Lefty-Bearing as an option as dealerships love to push S.E. parts that don't work well. Anyway, the stock lower-end set-up isn't bad IF you keep the motor relatively stock; however, if you make modifications that increase engine H.P. and Torque, the responsible and smart move is to beef-up the crankshaft to handle that extra power, and Darkhorse Crankworks does an excellent job of modifying crankshafts to do just that! Thanks again for your videos!
Love my 2012 Twinkie
That's the years where they got the Twin Cam right, they fixed all the little issues and they are really solid bikes. Just sucks that when they got it right they went to the M8 and that's a whole other story.
'06 FLH. Between the death wobble and blown engine at 21,000 miles, I'd say my next bike will not be a Harley. There are much better products out there at 1/3 the cost. Must add that HD did make it right, but only because I bought a $900 warranty. So only 10 weeks later i was riding again.
They had some issues with the 2008 and earlier touring models and the infamous Harley Wobble. Harley never officially acknowledged it but quietly made some changes to the engine mounting for 2009 on. Did they say why your engine failed? 2006 still had the spring loaded tensioner system, it was better on the 2003 to 2006 models but it could still cause engine failure. The spring tensioners put too much pressure on the shoes and they would come apart and plug the oil galleys in the engine.
@@GixxerFoo Yup that's what happened but there was also bearing failure, the dealership mechanic showed me the torn down engine. Metal shavings distributed throughout engine w bottom and top end trashed. They sent the motor to Milwaukee for confirmation and received a "new" motor with the same serial #. Does that sound right to you or BS?
I ride a 2003 sportster 1275 superstock heads and beat it like a stepchild.... never had any issues from the pressed crank, its really only an issue when you start adding big power.... the sportsters are good for about 120hp before any big issues arise and the first one i noticed was the tranny bearings....
I ride Sportsters myself and honestly they are pretty bullet proof, they cranks are still Timken bottom ends and way stouter than the big twins.
Keep ‘em coming Gixx!
Will do! Looks like you've been busy over on your channel too!
@@GixxerFoo Appreciate it bud! My last two videos are actually doing well. Thanks for noticing. Happy new year! -Tripp
You did help explain and I appreciate it you just validated that the pressed togather flywheels are crap exactly why I no longer have my 06 heritage and now ride a Evo softail
Great video as usual.
Harley's 0.012 runnout is a joke. I had a 2010 96" with only 25000 km on it that had 15-16 thousands total indicated runnout. If you ask any engine builder/machine shop if they would run a bike or car like that I bet they would laugh you out of the shop..
I ended up going with an S&S crank, gear driven cams, fueling pump and plate.
Yup; just caught your video.
Well the retired hd mech said he always put timken bearing in when in bottom end . He says he’s seen more twin cam rod bearings go than crank bearings . Dosent like the twin cam rod bearings with heat treated process instead of rod races . ✊🏻👍👌
You get a TC bottom end setup with the proper tolerance with Tinken bearings it will last forever.
@@GixxerFoo yup ; he’s put in a lot of the timken bearing kits . Says he’s got a set of Jim’s flywheels 4 1/2 stroke I could have rebuilt . Would give to me .Can’t beat Jim’s USA stuff .
Well ; more money 😁 we’ll see . Got my lotto ticket.😁
✊🏻👍👌
238K on my twin cam. No top end or bottom rebuild yet. My experience has been way different than many I guess.
Impressive!, is that miles or km?
@@64Goef Miles
👍😯 Holy hell! I have never seen or heard of that many miles on a twin cam untouched before!!! Honestly I am wondering if that is a record!
Way different is no exaggeration!!
I just hit 15,000 original miles on my totally unreliable 2002 Low Rider and pulled the case open to have a look. I rode the 150 miles to the mechanic and ordered the SE Kit from the US immediately. He and I were both surprised I made it intact to his shop.
$2500 US later it’s finally done.
Your 238K is amazing
@@shizuokaBLUES My RK happens to be a 2012 as well
Thank you for the information!
Anytime! Thank you for watching!
You always share some great knowledge with everyone, Big RESPECT from Missouri GixxerFoo, and Happy New year to you and your family 🎊🎊🎊💯
Happy new year! Thank you, I hope your having a great New Year too!
Howdy Ozarks! Happy new year!
@@trippontwowheels hey Tripp, Happy New year to you and your family brother !!!!
Why would u buy a bike with a major flaw we are not talking about minor here but engine destruction because Harley were too cheap to produce a reliable crank
Seems there should have been a major recall on these pressed cranks
And yes I’ve got a 2014 twin cam not everyone got the funds to fix a motor because Harley wanted to take short cut
To save money and look where they are now 🇦🇺
It's not a killer issue unless you are absolutely beating on the bike, many manufacturers use a pressed crank. You can put some power in it, just don't go drag racing and abusing it. There are thousands and thousands of Harleys out there making decent power and still running strong.
@@GixxerFoo It is a killer issue on a Harley. On a perfectly balanced short stroke parallel twin or inline four it may work. The Japanese have been using pressed together cranks forever. But not on 45 degree single crankpin long stroke v twins with an uneven firing sequence. The Japanese have never made such an engine. The pressed together crank will not handle the hammering of a Harley engine.
@@geraldscott4302 Will it not? So how's it that there are thousands of Twin Cams still running on the streets? I myself own a Twin Cam 88 with 70,000 km, with no issues. Sometimes people exaggerate things.
A lot of people buy Harley-Davidsons these days because of the name Harley-Davidson on the tank not realizing there are way better motorcycles out there
@@sll-tt6bj Faster doesn't mean better. Technological aids don't either. Sure, H-Ds aren't la crème de la crème in technical terms, but people still prefer them because they are iconic and raw in essence. They're in the deep motorcycles' template, and you would know if you knew their history and if you rode one. Yes, refined, fast, nimble and agile machines one can find out there, but they just feel like cold metal. Indeed I like what other manufacturers offer, but they still lack something. Hey, a friend of mine seriously contemplates getting a Sportster after having ridden many different bikes of different styles and brands. I guess it's because of the sole name in the tank...
The two flywheels are obviously machined concentric with splines complete and pressed and trued. Maybe the factory should have welded them. They probably tried to get the crank lighter thus losing press fit area. Was a problem on one old model air cooled four cylinder Kawashaky.
Surprised there hasn't been a class action suit for this issue......
It seems like the only lawsuit that ever stuck on Harley was brought on by the EPA over Harley's Screamin Eagle Super Tuner. That's why they only sell the Street Tuner now.
Why?? Cranks coming out of true is mainly on the owner and how they ride. The number one main cause of cranks coming out of true is lugging the engine. Spec is less than .012” and it takes a lot to get passed that. Right side case bearings can walk in or out of the case and that can happen on tapered roller bearing setups too. Tapered roller bearings are better because the disperse the load better and can take side load where a roller bearings can’t take side loads.
@@anitabonghit266 Really? They went to a pressed crank and pressed roller bearing to save production costs on a motorcycle that they charge a premium price for?
@@rogerwhite7719 yes, is that hard to believe or are you being sarcastic. Every penny they save on millions of units is a lot of money saved plus they cut assembly time down because tapered roller bearings cases have to have the end play checked. A left side roller bearings has no end play measurement. All they have to do is make sure a certain percentage of bikes exceeds warranty and that they cover their warranty with no issues when other factors are not happening
@@anitabonghit266 Riiight. Bussiness 101 ..."save" yourself outta' a bunch of prospective customers due to shoddy manufacturing followed by bad reputation diminishing sales year after year ...in the information age. Winning ticket. Not!
I've got almost 150000 on my 2002 with a stock HD crank, welded, trued.
Wished I saw this about a week ago. Upgraded my 88cc to a 95 big bore. The only thing I did not change was the flywheel. Big mistake !! Only 642 miles.
When I spun my flywheels I developed a sudden vibration. And on the b motor there is a sprocket that runs the balancers. There is a arrow on this sprocket and it should point directly down from the crank pin and it is only pressed on. Spin it 45 degrees and it's like riding a jackhammer on 2 wheels.
🤔 so you felt almost immediately what was going on down there?! I uh don't think I have ever seen a B motor do that before. To be honest I think I would of shit my pants running down the road and felt that happen.
LOL at this stuff. 103 CI and they make what, 75 HP and can't take any more without crank issues? Too funny. Thanks for a great explanation of this issue and what can be done. My BMW K1600GT makes 160 HP from the same displacement, but eats $2500 rear ends. HP is expensive, no matter what you ride!
Holy crap I didn't know the BMW was having some rear end issues on those bikes! But at 160hp that's enough to do it. Harley's single pin crank design puts a lot of strain on those pressed assembly, especially with the firing order of the engine.
@Peter Angles Completely different type of bike, but you can't argue with their power potential. I had a BMW K1200S, which is kind of like a German Busa. The K1300S made 175 at the crank, so prob upper 150s at the ground. If I didn't need to carry so much luggage and a pillion I'd still own it!
Thirty thou runout in some cases? That seems a huge amount. Thanks for sharing Gixxerfoo.
Yeah .030 thousandths that's total engine failure, that's what crank runout has been when it was checked after a failure. That's a scenario when even the engines cases are not salvaged.
Yeah, anybody that knows anything about Motors would say .002 max, in MY OPINION.
Thats maximum! Harley really screwed the pooch on this one, dropping the timkin bearing was pure negligence!!!
Never had any problems with my 07 FLHRC (85,287 miles).
I have a 2017 low rider s. Long story short, had it for 5000 miles and my crank was pinched. Luckily it was discovered when I was going to a 117. It would hit a stiff spot when rotating the piston arms. Took it to darkhorse, got the man o war and Timken conversion pushing 126 hp 134 tq alot of money in disassembly and reassembly but an entire engine would've been more
Damn that's awesome they caught it! You've got damn good numbers now 👍. Low Rider is one my favorite models and you got one l would love to have it sounds like!
Very helpful indeed love the video please keep it coming learning a ton
I've got new videos every week, thank you for checking them out!
Thanks again FooMan, Happy New Year to you and yours.
Happy new year! I hope it was helpful!
Heck yeah it's helpful, don't get this in a manual.
Mine has 4,800 miles on it.
On my way to work and the oil pressure light came one. It will still start and run (barely) but the crank needs fixing or replacing.
The shame is the bike is an ‘05 and looks like it’s brand new, just can’t ride it.
Dang that sucks, I'm sorry to hear that. Hopefully you can get that motor out and tore down, great time to get it all built back up with some solid components.
Im waiting for the shelf to fall down. LMFAO!
So was I lol, it made it 5 years till it was retired a couple months ago.
Happy New Year 🥳
Happy new year!! I hope you're having a good one!
96ci. charging system is working good, brand new starter . Only when the bike is hot , half the time it makes a clunking and grinding noise. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you Doberman
Crankshafts should not fail in this way no matter how you ride, even if you do stupid burnouts... Throw a rod, spin a bearing are other ways abuse can kill a crank but it should never slip on the pin. After markets know how to build these cranks so should Harley...
Great stuff as usual. Happy New Year 👍👍👍
Thank you! Cheers! I hope you're having a wonderful New Year!
I've legit called and spoke to 3 different shops mechanics about upgrades to get a little more STEP in my 09 FLHX, with 53k, and each man has basically said woah woah there that crankshaft, pinion whatever etc etc, danger danger if this and that possible engine rebuild if this and that and I'm just like 😐😵💫
That's a good thing that the shops are saying something about that. That means they aren't willing to sign their name to a job and take your money and let you have a failure. At 53K miles you would be paying them to tear down your cam chest and check your pinion runout and then deciding how to proceed from there. The pressed cranks and roller setup have a lot of runout, Harley-Davidson is fine with installing a Stage 4 kit from the catalog on a bike with .008 runout since .014 is now the limit but that's crazy excessive. They aren't trying to take your money, they just want to make sure you have a solid crank to build on and your not taking a $4500 job and turning it into 10K or more.
I had 1 thou runout when I installed my gear drives (02 bike, pre junk bearings). I would consider anything over 3 a busted crank. I would love to install an S&S crank, but dam.. that is some serious money.
Change the heads the cams the crank and the fuel system. Potato potato patato. Did I mention the compensator.
@@ralphwatten2426 Did it all (except crank)... funny you bring up Compensator.. Got a 2k+ trip coming up, so also changed out primary chain, belt drive, Compensator, and rear shocks. Funny how it takes awhile to make a grand, but only 5 minutes to spend it on the scooter!
@@hawkdsl Hey Hawk, can you still call it a Harley Davidson?
@@ralphwatten2426 LOL, oh sure! well.. hmm.. 98% HD.. I've only got a few non-harley parts. I had Short Block Charlie redo my stock heads.. I've got HD 95 cans with Weisco 10-1 pistons.. Comp cam lifters with CycleRama cams. S&S gear drives. Screaming chicken plate & oil pump. Progressive rear shock and front springs. Screaming chicken 6 speed. HD wheels and matching sprocket. Dyatona Twin Tech ignition. 44 CV/SE Intake/V&H long shots with cross over.
@@hawkdsl Not sure but I think it might be less than 98%. Won't be long before they won't sell you a t-shirt.
Great advice from your shows. Thanks. I have a 2010, 96. It's chipped and tuned stage 1. Runs very quick, partially because I can easily take it up to, but not often exceed 5600 redline. To give some idea, on a good day I can touch red in 6th gear. Crazy. With the boys though, I like to run it up. No burn outs done. But the engine is so smooth with no vibes at any speed. Always has. 30,000 km on bike. Should I be worried about this crankshaft thing? Did HD fix this problem of the 96's with the later years ? I'm a bit spooked now.
They are still pressed crank, they have got it about as good as it's gonna be for what it is by the time of the 96. What are Harley says is allowable run out will hurt your head, but with a stage setup and just riding the bike you shouldn't experience any issues.
My 2007 Road King Classic has excessive shaking while idling but very smooth riding it around town and on the freeway, do I have pinion run out?
I'm looking at a 2012 Fat Boy. Would this have been a problem that far down the line?
I bought the brand new crankshaft and then had it trued and welded because it was way out it would have popped the cam chains the second I started it straight from screaming eagle catalog
Harley just doesn't take the time to go that extra mile with their cranks, they really should for the price though.
When I got my 103 upgrade on my 09. 96cube I asked ab that and they said I didn’t need it. Or comp releases .. 🤷🏻♂️
my engine builder said 6th gear has killed more cranks, because guys are doing 2500-2800 rpm and open the throttle full blast without downshifting. don't run it like a diesel it likes rpms more than it likes lugging.
Your builder is absolutely correct, that's why it states in the owners manual "DO NOT LUG THE ENGINE". Harleys produce a lot of torque and it's the kind of torque that can tear things up.
Thanks!
Thank you for the support!!
Hi...love the vid.
Help my 2005 softail is sumping in 4 days, just a little on dip stick?
Had bottom end rebuilt.
Fueling camplate, new HF oil pump, now its sumping, just when sitting?? Is it doing it while it's running, idk. No oil out of nre as ther at start up though. Good sign? Help ty
Breather, meant to say
Wish I’d seen this 6 months ago.. hunting for a new type b motor swap now
Did you end up with a crank failure?!
Oh no! I’m putting the 100kit in, I don’t think the crank was trued or welded.. 30,000 miles on it 2005 fxdc
Thanks for the great info bro! Always spot on!
Thank you, I hope you're having a wonderful New Year!
@@GixxerFoo Same back bro!
Great videos.. helpful and real.
Was that an evo cam chest I saw ?
I do have an 03 88 cu and want to put a gear drive system in it if I check the pinion run out and if it's in that 3000 and install the gear drive system am I still going to have problems down the road with the crank thank you
You really want to be .002 or less, sometimes you can get away with as much as .003. Safe bet and a lot less expensive is a cam plate and hydraulic tensioners. They do really well and you don't have to worry about run out.
@@GixxerFoo I had a year 2088 I should have kept it
I've just bought a 2004 Sportster and looking for info on the tube. Watching your videos scares me to death. I'm starting to think I've bought a piece of shit just waiting to destroy itself and cost me a.fortune to fix. I've previously owned a 500/4 Honda for 100,000 miles and only needed clutch plates at that 100,000 mile point. Just regular oil changes and basic servicing.
What have I done?????
"Well... what's excessive vibration for a Harley???" 😆🤣
My trued and welded crank has the following run out
Drive side 0.000005
Cam side 0.000002
My timing stays accurate I have no need for compensators in my cam system so I have gear driven my cams I no longer have inaccurate timing at any RPM including 7200 which is where my fuel runs out
That's exactly why you simply can't beat a properly balanced and trued crank!
Like most things, if you take care of it and treat it well it will take care of you. I blew up 2 shovels and a evo by hotrodding them. My 07 has 100k miles now with no issues. Because I no longer ride like a jackass!
That's exactly what I explain to everyone, you can put some power into a Twin Cam on the stock crank but don't beat the crap out of it. That knife and fork single pin crank will take a lot but just straight abuse is not one of them.
To my knowledge the cam chain tensioner issue isn’t related to abuse. It seems to be more related to the “roughness” of the can chain surface the tensioners contact. I’m not sure crankshaft runout is necessarily abuse related in most instances either. I could be wrong....
Good info as always!!!
Thanks again! I hope it was helpful!
Yo i have a 2013 street bob with the tc96a...ever heard of anyone having crank issues with that era of dynas? Thanks for any help or insight
I have that year and model. Mine is being rebuilt now. 23k miles and I ride it nice and easy and change oil often. Glad I did not blow it up.
Feel sorry for people that own these Harleys, what a terrible design flaw, this is why I ride metric, my Vulcan has a one piece forged crank stock...
Great video! Definitely know your crank before ya start pumpin "juice" into ur motor.
Very interesting video thanks for sharing
I appreciate it! Thank you for checking out the video!
RIP to my 2006 ultra classic standard. Thing was a beauty, except it fell apart before 50k Miles. Electrical and mechanical. 😞
Holy crap?! Was it that far gone that you couldn't rebuild it?
@@GixxerFoo I could have but got sick of fixing it. Got a new one
just had this happen to my 110. only 4 years old, catastrophically destroyed the whole engine.
That sucks! I'm sorry to hear that, did you get a replacement engine?
lmao HD for ya