Extraction Shooters Keep Ruining Good Games
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- Опубликовано: 19 май 2024
- The extraction shooter is the most popular least good gamemode I've ever been a part of, and that would be ok, if it wasn't ruining so many potentially great games. In this video I discuss the extraction shooter genre and a fundamental pitfalls of the genre, spurred on by the release of the Arena Breakout Infinite closed beta.
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Игры
PlayerUnknown's original idea for the battle royale game mode was "Dayz (or any survival game like it, tbh) with the boring parts cut out." Get in, get loot quickly, fight people, win or perish. No running around looking for decent loot or losing hours of progress to a single encounter. So seeing a gamemode that desperately tries to put those parts back in is quite the irony.
It's only ironic if you think extraction shooters are the descendants of the Battle Royale genre, which they are not... In reality they are very much survival games just like DayZ, only more streamlined and casual-friendly thanks to things like the out-of-game stash, secure containers, etc.
Think of it more like “what if battle royales had stakes and persistence”, which does just refocus on a different aspect of survival games.
they are not the same types of the game. Just like people who like original DayZ, Don't Starve, or This War of Mine. It's about going out, search stuff, get away from danger, return to base and be stronger. These are survival games. Tarkov and Arenabreakout is just a variant of the original survival game formula, where more PvP is added. Picking up loot and PvP are both important part of the extraction shooter. Picking up environment loot while hiding means low risk-low reward, and confronting other players is high risk-high reward. This is different from PUBG, where the satisfaction comes from pure PvP and last one standing.
I only played 5 hours of Tarkov during its early access release because I hated the gunplay, and I played PUBG much more due to I love multiplayer shooter. But I understand Tarkov is different from PUBG because it attract different people. I don't want my death to have baggage, if I die in PUBG, or CSGO, or Squad, it's 90 seconds loading to another round/ticket, the thrill of the game is to engage other players. For Tarkov or ABI, is seeing you and your backpack survive with all the loot collected. It's just a different types of enjoyment not for us.
I recently tried SPT with mods and I can’t get enough of it. I have no time for people ruining my fun anymore. I’m not someone else’s content. The AI is so good when modded I hardly remember they’re bots anymore.
whats spk
@@Swordcrusher SPT..lol
Same my friend, i don't want to worry that someone will kick my ass:l
Check out the Fika coop mod if you wanna play with friends
@@Swordcrusher SPT = Single Player Tarkov (a mod)
A lot of this comes down to player expectations and genre goals. Imagine wanting to get into stealth games, and you imagine hitman being this tense adventure of suppressed headshots and quietly eliminating guards, only to realize it's actually a complex puzzle game where you ideally only kill 1 person, never use any weapons, and try to leave as much of the level untouched as possible. You could argue this is intrisically flawed design, as rhe game punishes you by lowering your score for utilizing more mechanics, encouraging players to limit their options as much as possible. However, I think that this would be wrong, as the game's fantasy that is being crafted by the developers isnt about a silent ninja slicing through the shadows, rather a silent observer who manipulates the world to create the perfect scenario for murder, like an evil Agatha Kristi. Tarkov, and extraction shooters broadly, are similar. The fantasy they sell isn't high quality immersive player on player combat, it's the very real feeling that what is happening each raid matters, and a constant thread of tension. Each raid without pvp builds the tension, making each fire fight more memorable. One of my favorite memories in all of gaming is lying prone in tall grass carrying a shit ton of super important loot while a squad of vastly better geared players walked around me, exactly like Ghillies in the mist but entirely organic! It was amazing. Moments like these are only memorable and worthwhile if the stakes make it so, and that is the trade off of the extraction shooter.
That being said, an extraction shooter based around consistant intense pvp does exist, and its Hunt:Showdown! It is designed to funnel players to interesting locations for combat every raid, and offering a safety net of free loadouts every loss to prevent the "too bad to make money" cycle. It also uses and MMR system to ensure new players aren't just stomped immediatly by veterans, ensuring a competive and consistant climb to the top! The tradeoff being, as stated earlier, that this lowers the stakes substanitally and is offering a different fantasy to a different audience, one of numerous fast engagements rather than distinct memorable ones
cool.
@@ElpredatorGYRO thanks :)
The problem with this analogy is Hitman is enjoyable and picking up scraps in a UI menu Isn't
@taru3374 If ur good enough to play Lockdown (currently it's "the hardest" game mode, but it is meant to be "the medium" difficulty (devs will fix it once there are more players maps)) even opening drawers will feel like gambeling, every little win like a camera or a UV lamp u will feel good for, but what truly feels good is hitting the jackpot, getting an item that's worth 10s or even 100s of thousands of koens
and than the thrill of getting out with it alive is a completely other story
(these aren't even that rare in Lockdown btw like u get a couple of items above 10k fairly regularly in Lockdown)
And the guy was listing this as one of his reasons as to why the game mode is "objectively bad", like bro just my sheer existence disproves his point!
I agree. I don't have much time to invest anymore, but the pure thrill of having completed a difficult quest, finding an item i need or bagging a shit ton of loot and having to get the f out immediately is unparalled.
I do agree that there needs to be a breakthrough in the game cycle though. A game can't rely on wiping everyone's progress every 4-6 months just for everyone to do it all again for much time
A 32 vs 32 Conquest like mode with this level of gun customization is all i want.
Functionally Tarkov has the qualities that Arma lacks; smooth immersive gameplay, aesthetically satisfying gunplay, and beautiful highly detailed maps. With the addition of SAIN it also has much better AI. Arma has the things that Tarkov lacks, mass scale combat, combined arms gameplay, and giant maps.
As ever, I await the creation of the ultimate milsim, an orgiastic lovechild of Tarkov, Arma, Bad Company 2, Crysis, Far Cry 2, and War Thunder.
Bro imagine listing smaller map as one of the reasons as to why a game is worse, when the two games are in completely different genres.
in my opinion, they are fun because you care about your character dying, it´s a bit like dayz you spend so much time gathering loot and all that a simple pvp encounter has you shaking in real life, with your heart pumping like crazy, that is why this games are addictive and why many people like them, its dayz without walking for 1 hour
My thoughts exactly
Yeah it's the magic of survival games like DayZ without the hours of walking
Leaving out the key component to why I personally think that most people enjoy these games and it's not the hardcore element. It's the progression. Not having any hands on with ABI, I can at least say from a Tarkov players perspective going for Max traders, Max hideout, kappa container or lightkeeper are goals players like to hit. It gives them a reason to keep playing. I came from PUBG and eventually it got boring doing the same loop over and over and it got ruined by the fortnitifaction of every BR. The more grounded/realistic weapons and game systems keep me invested with an actual progression system. It's not all about looting and not engaging because if you're tasking, you're going to have to kill players, go to hot spots, fight AI/bosses etc. I get that you don't like extraction shooters but this is kind of a crucial element you left out in my opinion.
Yeah, underrated comment,
but also his argument of ur sole purpose is to loot and not engage in pvp completely falls appart when some one brings in low risk but effective kits against juiced players
Not even mentioning the missions btw
What about tasks?! If Tarkov only consisted of the extraction loop you described, I would see no point in playing it, as you said. However, trying to complete the tasks in a hostile environment where looting is an optional mechanic to increase your capabilities, is in my opinion a great game mode.
Agree with most of your points. Would only point out that the fear of losing the hard-earned loot is a great motivator/source of thrill for extraction shooters
For real
I disagree that the father of extraction shooters is the battle royale genre. I'd say it's DayZ and all the Survival Shooters that followed it. Tarkov managed to streamline the survival shooter experience by offering smaller maps, quests, safezones, level system and a marketplace all of which appeal to a wider more casual audience.
Agree
PVE extractions is great, single player tarkov with SAIN is incredible, by far the best AI ever to grace any form of fps game, has to be experienced to be believed.
Also Grayzone warfare and Incursion red river are excellent, arena breakout would alos benefit from a pve mode if it had decent AI.
Yeah man, that's exactly what I want from arena breakout, i hope they'll add it later on the future :D
While I do agree extraction shooters suffer heavily from the difference between sweat lords who can play this game like a job & people just trying to play a few hours in the weekend (like me), I do feel like you missed one big point: the thrill of possibly losing fat stacks of loot is what motivates most extraction shooter enjoyers; not getting out with loads of loot itself.
For example; even with a full bag of rare items, guns or ammo I still look for gunfights along the way. Objectively that's stupid but gameplay wise, it's those specific moments that you can't get in any other shooter genre: not only will the next fight be a gameplay firefight, I could lose it all. Even more so, I could lose it all to a player who has nothing on him, so even if I'd won it's still a gamble if the fight was worth it from an objective standpoint. It's those unknowns and gambles on top of the gameplay that gives me that unique feeling.
That being said, I also completely understand your POV. Sometimes I think the same thing: "man wouldn't it be cool if Tarkov got used arma style." or something along those lines. And if you're not a fan of the genre in general it's pretty logical you'd want to see this game used for something else.
Tarkov has Tarkov Arena, so there IS something. However, it's not all that great.
Yeah the only problem is that he keeps calling it "objectively wrong" and "fundamentaly broken", even though he can clearly see that no one else has a problem with it.
Extraction shooters are straight up not fun, you're so stressed out and losing is so frustrating it's not worth the occasional elation of winning. I guess it's a natural product of fps games evolving to become sweatier and sweatier. They started with casual fps experiences like halo and cod where you're having fun almost all the time, to every fps needing to have a competitive mode where you're only having fun when you're winning, to extraction shooters where you're barely ever having fun. The next step is people get fed up with the constant sweatiness and fps games go back, or they somehow get even sweatier. Who knows, maybe the next big trend will involve anyone who loses the match having their account automatically deleted. It does line up with the "higher stakes = more fun" argument people keep bringing up for why extraction shooter are supposedly fun.
digging through other people's trash and trying not to get shot is such a vibe fr
I wholeheartedly despise games that you can lose hours of progress in an instant because you didn't see someone 500 miles away
You either accept the constant anxiety, or don't play the game
honestly I enjoy that niche, like a more grounded horror game
The constant anxiety and rush of it all is what gets me hooked. But I can't argue with you on how that might not be fun to some people
Eve Online, in personal expirience best game ever, is just like that. Especially if you live in Wormhole space. Every minute of every play is anxiety especially in something expensive. Left it becuase of that. There is no better high than Eve Online, but on top of your work, daily problems, family last thing you need is sitting behing PC and wondering will this maybe be best or worst night (that might in case of bad decisions get you few days/weeks/months back where you were and all your effort wasted)
Actually, GZW in it's current state is a good example for the concept of money NOT ruining the experience. It's there, you can use it to buy stuff in case you continue loosing gear, but honestly it's not that important, since you can: A try to reclaim your lost gear B loot some places that have decent to really nice weapons. Most of the things you can buy, you can also find. Also people share very generously within factions. But I can definitely see how for a F2P extraction shooter the concept of in-game currency is at least worrying.
I understand your opinion and can not argue logically. I just like the premise of the mode that is why I am buying and spending time in these games in first place.
Literally every reason he provided to explain why it is a bad genre was a quality that I enjoy. At least he cheekily acknowledges it in the beginning, at least I hope it was a joke.
True even the "picking up trash" feels like gambeling in Lockdown.
(Lockdown zone: A game mode of the game that offers better loot and is meant to be the "medium" difficulty in the final release of the game.)
The biggest disappointment for me was hearing that the new Marathon game is going to be an extraction shooter 😔
Ngl mate, I can understand your points. But I think its mostly wrong mindset/expectation issue.
If hoping into EFT or Arena Breakout with Battle Royale or Arma (with more looting) mindset ofc you'll be extremely dissapointed.
Most people play this nieche genre for exactly that adrenaline of losing everything and the dophamine of finding or killed geared enemies.
I personally saying it like the Survival game adrenaline akin to DayZ, but more pvp oriented, and dont need 20 hours of your day just for grinds.
TL;DW
"It's bad because I don't like it."
"It's OBJECTIVELY wrong* cus I don't like it!"
*Proceeds to post this after seeing litteraly no one complaining about the game mode*
Bruh, he laid out some good points, at least respect that. If your only argument is skill issue, then at least acknowledge what he said that was right.
@@malachi846 If I believed that anything he said was correct or even a good point I would have acknowledged it. This whole video was verbal diarrhea.
@@duhmeister yes but you haven’t made a valid counterpoint yet. You’re using the same logic that you said he was using: “ his argument is bad since I don’t like it”.
sunk-cost fallacy
the phenomenon whereby a person is reluctant to abandon a strategy or course of action because they have invested heavily in it, even when it is clear that abandonment would be more beneficial.
Have u actually read the comments?
I always imagined a what if scenerio of Tarkov being a big map PvP tactical shooter without need to extract but with a persistent war, that raged over the Tarkov. And with actual team objectives that would impact the course of the conflict, hell! Imagine Tarkov Planetside 2! Crazy to think.
Extraction shooters are miserable. I'd love to play a proper singleplayer survival-RPG with the kind of engine tarkov runs on through.
Metro
@@GmailNexus Metro isn't survival though. It's a story shooter. It's still a fantastic game though, very immersive and well thought out world building.
@@splizzex I see. I'm not a genre expert. I agree it's a great game series. Have a good day.
Stalker anomaly?
@@Aserwinokan1043 I played it for a while but eventually stopped because the modders and stalker community in general are just that insufferable
Have to agree, I have played many extraction shooters, like: Marauders, Arena Breakout, Escape from Tarkov, and much much more.
EFT being the only one that felt finished, but yet I had the most fun( and still want to go back for more after hundreds of hours of playing) in Gray Zone Warfare, which in my opinion, it is because of the more of a arma-ish/squad-ish feel to it.
It doesnt feel like Tarkov and I like it.
I agree with a lot of what you say but as a person who plays a lot of extraction shooters, you're forgetting the adrenaline rush of barely escaping a fight or surpassing insurmountable odds. That's why extraction shooters are cool for me.
With all due respect, it sounds like an addictive rush
I mean I understand how luscious it must feel, but I also understand more how it's a big no for me
Personally, BRs feel too gamey for me. (I know, it's a game, but not my style of game) Extraction shooters allow you to have a variety of raids where some are maybe more PVP focused whilst others are quiet and you get more PVE and looting. The variety of not knowing what you'll run into and needing to stay on your toes is what keeps me hooked on them.
not sure you understand that gamers also like it because of the role play aspect of being in a post apocalyptic world. before extraction shooters gamers have always loved this setting ie. fallout, stalker, metro, last of us etc. that is why you are collecting "trash". we dont just like these games just for the mil-sim aspect but also because extraction shooters have a very gritty and dark setting that gamers love where everyone could be an enemy and you dont know who is friendly. the social aspect of this game mode just adds to the basic shooter elements. extraction game modes also raises the stakes of each time you play making each fight more intense
so basically you are saying your bad and your expectation is a hit of dopamine every 30 seconds.
what you are describing is not the problem with this genre but exactly what makes it so good.
"Collecting trash" isn't the goal of the game.
It is actually the player who set their own goal.
some people want to get a lot of money.
some want to progress all the tasks and gain xp.
some want to get into as many gunfights as they can.
each to his own playstyle...
basically this genre create all type of players. the Timmies, the rats, the loot goblins, the PvP chads.
It is an ecosystem and you just find your place in it.
You really don't have to just collect trash if you don't want to.
if you are a Chad who looks for pvp, looting is just a means to end for you.
And if you are a timmy trying to complete a task - you only fight as a last resort and you can get a lot of excitement just by avoiding a group of hunters who try to sniff you out.
this kind of games can bring a lot of different emotions.
unlike other games where you are guaranteed that you will get into a gunfight, in the "Tarkov like" games you don't know when or if it is going to happen.
For me Tarkov has a lot of problems. but when the game itself works? it is amazing.
I actually prefer it over a BR game were only one player gets to have the rewarding experience and the rest of the lobby feeling they have wasted their time.
BR is the type of game that unless they put SBMM into it, some people will never be able to enjoy it due to the nature of the only one winner gamemode.
agree, while i do like the style and gameplay of tarkov, never played long term bc besides the steep learning curve of the maps, recoil, ia patterns, extraction points, etc, there is always a guy with a uber gun who will spray you on the face while wearing the most unbeatable armour in the game while you try to take him down with a makarov bc is all you have. Is a desing problem and again i do like the game i just don´t have the time to get over the learning curve
Yeah lets make 50th battle royale game… there is literally maybe 3 extraction looter shooters and 49 battleroyales already
the optimal round vs actual round is the entire point of the genre. if thats your main issue then the genre just isnt for you. Doesn't mean the design doesn't hold up. The games wouldn't be nearly as successful if part of the fun wasn't the game beating you with a bat until you get good.
LMAO! 😂
Real.
Addressing the issue of enemies having cheap loot, it's very easy to explain, in Arena you have game modes where you need to have a minimum amount of loot to be able to enter the raid, 50k and 80k if I'm not mistaken. The game is starting now and few people will have money to spend on expensive equipment.
In Arena mobile there is an event rotation, with several types of modes focused on pvp, where you don't have to worry about dying because the game provides the kit.
There is a mode similar to Battle Royal where you have to extract loot from enemies and air drops in one of several helicopters. In another 12vs12 you choose a faction and fight against another, each team has a Boss bot and several bodyguard bots, it looks a bit like League of Legends moba mode, but it's pure PvP.
There is also a Tarkov-style team deathmatch arena that arrived this season on the Chinese mobile Arena...
The game is free, so there isn't much to complain about, I have almost 900 hours of play on mobile and the experience is the same as Tarkov.
30k*, not 50k, but yeah
we just want syphon filter on pc
Here we go again with these skill issue pve respawn players hating on fun games.
The only extraction shooter I have played is Helldivers 2 (which is a baby casual extraction shooter) and that's about the only one I'm ever going to actually play because it's basically the best one without the boring salty PVP and vaguely Russian developed game with a clunky glitchy buggy experience
Seems like hunt showdown fixes what you dislike about extract shooters.
In hunt there isnt really random loot around the map, instead there are 1 or 2 bosses which players fight over and extract to get money. Honestly while it has some problems, its surprising that the game is so underrated.
I like your points on this topic.
well said, sir. nothing to add mr jack frags (but in good)
sum up : i dont like it, you shouldn't like it either.
i considered this.
5:20 you forget that when u are good, u are the one hitting with a 2x4 on the head the trash pickers and taking their stuff.
ngl, saying that extraction shooters are decedents of battle royals is kinda a L take. They were both born from survival games. The "Modern" extraction shooter was both based on the gameplay loop of Tom Clancy's The Division and S.T.A.L.K.E.R (obv). Whilst Battle Royals were born by saying "What if multiplayer survival games were on steroids?" With the "wipes" being the end of the game.
Literally there is nothing in common between extraction shooters and BR games besides being able to pick stuff from the ground and being on a relatively large scale map.. completely different game modes
I’m pro extraction shooter, HOWEVER i dislike how many of them there are and honestly im more of a single player extraction shooter type of guy (ex. SPT). It’s very annoying losing everything constantly due to everybody always being higher level and higher knowledge than you. But i think it’s very fun when it brings an immersive atmosphere where you can realistically be ambushed because you’re not always expected an enemy but that enemy doesn’t just one shot you and he actually gives you a chance to fight back
Yeah I have to agree… I quit playing Tarkov because it feels like a job. Grind out boring raids for hours just to have a few “fun” rounds. I’d rather play a game with fun pvp that doesn’t require all the tedium beforehand.
Gray zone warfare has puesto only mode and it's perfect for a chill night but keep in mind the game still buggy
"it's not project reality."
Hey this is a crazy concept but like. Some games arent for everybody.
The Chinese game has a feature that tracks every movement you make in game... Yeah that fits.
source?
@@leonzspotg The video at hand.
@@Badhero4oh that kind of tracking mb didn’t fully understand, what’s wrong with it, seems like a pretty good system to me
@@leonzspotg lol. It's an awesome system... But Tencent CCP predictive programing. Your phone tracks your movements in real life, every time I get into my car it reminds me of how far my destination is and how long it will take me to get there just because of how often I go to the location. Big brother is real.
@@Badhero4Not big brother Chinese cousin
For me the meta progression is just dopamine. It gives more weight and meaning to what I'm doing than a more traditional shooter. It's like a replacement for the unlocks in say, call of duty, but done in a way that is different.
I can understand the criticisms though of the genre. But I've played tarkov more than any other fps on the market personally.
Brain fryer activated
Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzrrrrrrrrrrrrrzzzzzzzzzzzzzrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Hunt showdown does great on the genre by basically cutting out the part of the global inventory being the part that you want to mantain instead of your character.
You die you loose everything yeah, but the guns and grenades are not important, your character is, and you will grow attached to some chatacter that clutched a match and now is probably about to die.
I think its great implemented and the part about any gun in the game, be either a pistol of 1 dollar or the best weapon in the game costing hundreds, every single one can kill you in one shot, which makes no room to a person being better than me because they put hundreds of dollars or a million hours, if Im better than you, you die.
So, equipment anxiety is non existent, and equipment tiers being betters than others just does not matter, which are my most primary problems with the genre
My FUNKY FRESH BROTHER, ARMA REFORGER IS LIKE SQUAD ON STEROIDS IN A Project Reality SORT OF WAY!
So it seems like your main issue with these games basically boils down to lack of incentive to pvp, but this can be addressed in several ways: one of the easiest would be to give players a dog tag a la tarkov or some other high value item that rivals or is more valuable than map loot, so that hunting other players is equally rewarding. The other obvious solution is to just provide objectives that require or make it more likely for people to engage in pvp.
I don't really know why you are comparing extraction shooters to BRs, because they have completely different goals as to what sort of gameplay they want to create (i dont think I'd really consider BRs to be the inspiration for extraction shooters in the first place, that title goes to survival games like DayZ and STALKER, but that's besides the point). In a BR your loot isn't a long term investment like it is in an extraction shooter, because obviously even if you win you still start the next game from square 1. It's really just a means to make each round more dynamic by forcing players to work with a randomly dealt hand, so to speak. And even so, you still end up seeing metas crop up in the final rounds when all the remaining players have had time to loot their preferred loadouts, at which point it just becomes a glorified game of tdm.
A huge part of the appeal of games like Tarkov that you didn't really touch on is that sense of long-term investment in your character. Do i equip all my best gear right now and potentially use it to skyrocket my progression early on, or do i keep it as a backup and just try to coast with low level equipment while most other players also aren't very geared up yet? Do i sell these valuables for a sweet rifle and some ammo right now, or do i hold onto it and save up to buy a case that will let me hold more rifles in the future?
In a BR what you did last round is NEVER important, all that matters is trying to win the current round, and that goal never changes. Even if it isnt always true, games like Tarkov are very good at making it feel like EVERY decision you make matters a lot to your long term progression. Whether or not you like it is up to you, but this is something that BRs simply can't achieve due to their very nature.
They just need to cater to everyone, seen as all the resources are there to do so. just a case of incorporating modes? unless im wrong?
I play DayZ and PUBG - PUBG is where I have sunken more hours into, but still I do not make much of comparisons between these two, and honestly I am totally looking forward for Arena Breakout just solely because I believe that the performance of this game is probably gonna be better than other extractions shooters. Also I have never played EFT and seeing as Tarkov devs are probably turning into money milking cunts, I guess then that I will avoid it whatsoever.
What I honestly think while also agreeing with slorgs opinions is that we live in an age or rather a year where I think that FPS games are being re-invented in all sorts of way - for a long time I think that many FPS games were just CoD clones and AAA companies or even indie devs were affraid to try to innovate things.
I think that FPS games are the most fragile game genres when it comes to invention as for the game loop, that many games have a core in, it is hard to deviate from "shooting bad guys, monsters, etc." while also keeping the game loop, as in it is imho really hard to balance and find what makes FPS game innovative while also still being fun. From my own two examples (DayZ and PUBG) when you take DayZ: you might have high octane action, or goofy encounters with other players sometimes within like 30 minutes into the game, but you might also sit in front of your screen for 3 hours straight where you just kill zombies, loot, hear no gunshots around and suddenly the fear that survival in Dayz brings, may vanish and be replaced with... boredom. Same for PUBG, it may take couple of runs until your brain cannot take the loop anymore (parachuting to a location, looting, shooting, trying to stay in the safe zone, win a chicken dinner) and you just quit, again, because of boredom.
All in all, I think that we live in time and age where a proper, non-complicated but yet oh so fun game loop for FPS genre is still yet to be discovered. (Also I still mean online FPS games).
Its not the greatest game ever but it had to have been so popular for a reason no?
I think its not necessarily the fault of the extraction shooter gamemode as a concept, more of its implementation. The fact that there is no little reward for killing players over just looting is more of a design decision then a vital aspecet of the extraction shooter gamemode.
But I'd go on a limb and say that the relationship that the player has to other players in Tarkov is completely different from other shooters and appeals to a completely different audience. Even that tarkov has more in line with a horror games design then a straight shooter, where menial tasks are given more weight given that at any point in time a player can come out of nowhere and clap your cheeks. Its more similar to Amnesia where sure most of the game is just pulling levers and doing random shit but the gameplay is given more weight when you're doing a mini game that distracts you from an actual threats (raiders, players, etc). And so Tarkov is designed more toward the decision making behind dealing with how you deal with various situations with horror elements, not exactly a straight up shooter.
Also I've acknoledged that Tarkov is not for me given the amount of time and effort that needs to be put into that game. It's defenitly flawed in its design, I still think its issues are resolvable though and not an issue with the genre itself.
Extraction is the best genre out there. Studios just need to get one game that does it right. So far the best ive seen is dungeon borne or darker and darker.
I mean its an interesting take, but really the menial aspect of looting and said loot being rare and time-intesive to get to, is the games way of giving pvp-interactions meaning.
Ill explain it from my point of view: Tarkov has really cool PVP when it works. To Pvp I need things x, y and z. So these things now have abstract value because they hold the promise of extensive pvp fun later on and losing them brings about the consequence of having to spend more time in getting to the part of the game you want to get to which suddenly gives the entire gameplayloop a sense of meaning (if youre willing to get invested obviously), conincidentally making the part trying to get to the "fun" part where youve amassed so much stuff you can just mindlessly and without worry pvp equally as fun as getting there.
Ideally loot should ofc also be distributed across the map in such a fashion, where it forces players to encounter each othere.
Just my 2 cents
Outside the obvious hackers which have ruined the battle royal genre even worse than extraction shooter. The thing that tarkov and abi need for long temr health is just a easier onboarding for new players which tarkov is working towards. And as for time investment i feel i wasted way more in what used to be good competitive fun ranked games that all turned into wanna be mlg trash.
yeahhh it's probably best you stick to PR and Squad slorgs, lmao.
watch it before commenting
@@Austrveg i have
Donno, i think its a hard niche, some are indeed good! That is, by interpretation of other views. I personally can't go around and say that X themed game is bad because, others might like it. That does not prevent one from giving an opinion though.
I do agree that the extraction shooters could be a lot better though, hence why i like Gray Zone's concept, especially when they expand on what they initially promised. Since its a seamless open world shooter, which is crazy good. Gameplay that encourages team play then team betrayal.
When you remove the themed idea of a extraction looter shooter, you're left with a another generic, loot-less. Action paced game, that no one's looking for since, people expect said game to be a extraction shooter.
At the end of the day, its obvious you don't like looter shooters, some do. I guess thats how the world works.
So no offense of course but, then you shouldn't play them if you don't like them :x
Extraction shooters are the only ones I enjoy. I prefer risk/reward rather than running around for a top score…
FAX! 🗣️🗣️🗣️💯💯💯
Absolutely underrated comment!
Go play Diablo lol
calling arena a tarkovs clone while tarkov being modded stalkers clone. amazing game knowledge
Skill issues
Yeah... I can't play this game with my friends who do t have the time. And I don't play codm anymore. We Def need some kindov fps god game. I wish the gijoe is could be apart of it so we could use our favorite joes
Played the mobile version (hear me out) like a year ago and I loved the gameplay. Guess what made me quit. Not the issues with the fact that it's mobile, but because my loot stash was full, I had the best, most modded ar, with 3 different laser markers, but the game was still the say. So in short: EXTRACTION SHOOTER IS TOO REPETITIVE. Finale. Thanks Slorgs
Doesn't basically every fps game suffer from this in one way or another though? To me your experience doesn't really indicate a problem with the gameplay loop; it sounds more like you got what you wanted out of the game and then got bored with it lol. I mean i assume you'd have to put a solid amount of time in to get to the point where you're completely stocked up on exclusively the best gear, no?
@yellowsaurus4895 Yeah and I've been playing the mobile version since it came out, basically on a day to day bases, still haven't got bored of it!
Agreed
replace extraction with tdm and some gamemodes from battlefield and keep the rest from tarkov and voila a good game
Couldnt agree more
Extraction shooter games should focus on pve only hence why spt is getting a lot of attention right now
Well said.
I think hunt Showdown did it best As it is not a looter shooter because functionally the equipment on you is completely worthless and the entire point of the game is to get one item on the map which is everyone's goal instead of trying to find scraps that are worth something. the game is pushing you towards contesting with other players the only other goal is leveling up which is done the fastest by killing players and collecting the item
Lmaooo cap skill issue
Well, that was a shit take.
I love the simplicity!
slorgs just love to hate GZW lmao
just dont play then...?
Womp womp! Play Lockdown! ☝️🤓
The loot is better, so it wont feel like picking up trash but instead like gambeling, 85% of players are bringing in ATLEAST gear worth 300 000 koen, pvp MULTIPLE TIMES a raid is inevitable, since everybody knows the spawns, places worth looting and this is a team game weather u like it or not, they can pick ur stuff back up making it so that u only lose all ur gear only the fraction of times u would of originally lost it solo.
The regular mode is meant for begginers, I know the game is a little fucked rn, cus technically everyone is a begginer while in reality there are the mobile players, Tarkov players and the latter are unfamiliar with this sort of system, but everything will sort itself out eventually.
And how do I know all this? I've been hooked to the mobile version ever since it came out, so I know the game and especially the future of it more then all these new Twitch, YT Andy's!
There is one "small" problem with Lockdown at the moment wich is that it's way too hard, since the Strengthend and Forbiten Zone is not always open, the crackd no lifers go into Lockdown every single game when Lockdown ain't open, however this will be fixed once there are more players and the harder maps are released and if ur too shit to play Lockdown even, then honestly it's just skill issue!
It really sounds like ur bitching and moaning about the regular mode so either "gid gud" or wait for the devs to add Forbidden Zone and for the player base to catch up.
So IN CONCLUSION to all the problems u've talked about only apply to Tarkov and not Arena Breakout and it will only get better in the future!
When strengthend and forbidden zone ain't open*
yes. It's a goddamn sweat factory that has nothing to do with actual combat. I don't need no looting in my shooting. Or tactical barbieism with too many attachments, pouches and other navy seal wannabe bullsihit to choose from. I want to feel like a random grunt, not a garbage collector. All those excelent gameplay systems- medical, gunplay, ballistics- entirely wasted on a looter shooter. Hated extraction shooters from the very beginning, hate them now, will hate them until either they or i die.
Also-yeah. the "intended" gameplay loop is a chore. it's figuratively a job, and a crappy one at that
If I see a generic modern soldier man with an M4, I just assume the game is soulless and bad at this point. FPS genre is almost totally bereft of any creativity or fun, even the 'tactical' shooters all just play like CoD/BF laser tag now.
Are u really trying to compare this game to modern CoD?!
I would love to see how u would play a modern CoD/BF game centerd around team play, wich is what makes tactical shooters... well... Tactical!
@@-2zz122 Yes, I compare them, because 99% of modern FPS games literally rip their gunplay, and a fair share of their mechanics and design, from CoD4, 'tactical' or not. Most tactical shooters don't HAVE the 'team play' you're even talking about, because it's trivially easy to sprint around as a lone wolf, lasering people down with a perfectly accurate and stable weapon, no meaningful suppression, and no fear of death. All 'tactical' means in tactical shooters is just 'more walking and longer respawns'.
FFS Squad, a successor to PR, couldn't even adopt PR's far more realistic gunplay that actually DOES allow teamplay and tactics to exist, without getting review bombed initially by Gen Z'rs who have no frame of reference for FPS games prior to the CoD4 era of influence on the genre.
Circle isn't the strongest shape.. can't believe you're getting me triggered from geometry and not your opinions on looter-shooters..
SPT >EFT
Super cool :)) 🔥🔥🔥
Extraction shooters aren't fun or well designed there rewarding
You know what, at first I thought u were just gonna dismiss the genre but you literally address the same critical issue which made all my friends stop playing Tarkov and which even led LANDMARK, arguably the best content creator for tarkov pvp content, to criticize Tarkov for the exact same issue, the formula incentivizes camping, looting and extraction camping.
You do not win pvp in tarkov, you only deplete costly time you could've spent looting ledx's with a makarov and a shit chest rig by rushing straight to em from map spawn.
Though, looting needs to stay in a way, it raises tension and is somehow fun with the way you slowly reveal items in containers, like gambling 😅
I'm sorry, there is no way in heck you just said at 7:00 that BRs are a more meaningful concept in the fps space. Are you actually high? You're damn right you gonna catch flak for saying that. There is no way you're actually saying BR's bring more to gaming than an Extraction shooter does, that's actually wild.
You don't have a gameplay loop with BRs, you can sum up a BR with spawn, pick up weapon, surive for 20 mins-30 mins, kill 1 person, winner winner chicken dinner. How is that better than an Extraction shooter genre? Does the sandbox concept scare you? Are you afraid of making your own choices because they might be the wrong one? Gear fear over pixels?
Sorry my friend but you don't make a good argument.
Even BF3 "scavenger" mode was better than these !
Honestly agree with this take, I like SPT with mods to just run in as a randomly generated scav and have the fights I want to fight, or occasionaly go in geared up, to have those fights, and have everything unlocked so I can buy stuff and do it again and have fun when I die
you're not wrong.
people in europe picks up trash not to sell it but to leave a cleaner place
Ofc you don't think the game is fun if you just run around rat, loot, extract and repeat. Its like playing Rust and hitting trees 24/7 and doing nothing else, you're missing the whole point of the game. The loot is terrible? play the harder modes with higher tier loot spawns. Players don't have good gear on? Play. The. Higher. Modes. it's quite simple really.
You claim that our views are tainted as if yours isn't? A player clearly not good dying, losing money and then bitching on the internet about how the game isn't good isn't exclusive to this genre. Some people hate Elden Ring and most of them that I have seen couldn't even beat Margit. If you took the time to actually learn the game and kill some chads all of sudden you'd be having fun.
Just like all Souls games it takes time to learn, get better, and then triumph. Another example is Rainbow Six Siege, dying in that game to someone shooting you through a bullet hole you didn't know about sucks. its upsetting but doesn't make the game trash, you need to invest time and learn the maps and angles. Is it hard? Yes. Do people quit because of it? Yes. But is it a bad game? No. It simply has its target audience and if you do not fall in there, it isn't for you.
But hey the games not for you and that is fine, but lets not say they are ruining good games. That simply isn't true otherwise there wouldn't be such a large audience playing and wanting more. Tarkov (minus the recent drama) has been very successful, Arena breakout on mobile also successful. You can say chocolate chip cookies are worst cookies in the world. But if the sales and revenue say otherwise then you are not in fact being objective, you are just stating your opinion.
FAX! 🔥🔥🔥🗣️🗣️🗣️💯💯💯
Bro comes out after seeing everybody playing and enjoying the game and litteraly no one complaining about the gamemode of the game 🗣️🗣️🗣️💯💯💯
and then goes onto say that that the game mode is OBJECTIVELY wrong and FUNDAMENTALLY BROKEN and saying that this is a well reasond and matured discovery,
like bro no body is so fucking brain dead that they see everyones reaction on the game and then not know deep down that if their arguing what ur arguing, that their not arguing in bad faith.
Bro I hate ppl who argue in bad faith!
So many Tarkov players butthurt 😂 Extraction shooters are garbage
TLDR: he don't like extraction shooter because it's not Squad or PR.
Extraction shooters have quests, you can only count on your skills (and some of your teammates) to overcome the obstacles of a round. Your "logical arguments" could be used against any game you like. I could say "Squad is a bad game because if your team is bad and there is no coordination between the different platoons, then you are just watching the other team win the game without any chance of coming back into the round.".
That might be the most useless video you released.
I like extraction shooters and i do hope more are coming and that devs stops developing those large scale warfare games that are ruining good games.
Holly shit! U actually kinda got him there! 😂
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
not to mention the amount of time you need to play extraction shooters lile tarkov just to get a bigger inventory
ABI and GWZ ain't like that!
I agree. I hated tarkov. Bought it when it was on sale in beta, and didnt quite realize what i had signed up for. Not for me.
I did however enjoy the division 1 dark zone gameplay a lot, but it was far more simple and had a fun single player to back it up.
Ok boomer.
Tell me that ur so skill issued that u can only succeed in the regular mode (as opposed to for ex. Lockdown) without actually telling me that u have a skill issue! 🗣️🗣️🗣️💯💯💯
im honestly just tired of extraction shooters. when im in the mood for them, i play SPT with shit tons of mods and way better and much harder sweatier ai. damn near live or maybe worse (but not unfair and cheating, thank you mod). but the mods make it so much better. but maybe im just more tired of pvp games. this day and age everyone and their mother wants to be top 1. so they sweat and ruin the experience of just chilling with friends and having fun. but god forbid you are good at a shooter. now you get called a hacker constantly for being better. i would know, i get called that all the time. but heres the thing, im not bad at shooters. but i hate sweating. its not fun. there is 0 fun involved. helldivers 2 brought back some fun until the balance guy alex that apparently ruined hello neighbor before running is the one making god awful decisions for balancing. this fucker is notorious for being mr anti-fun. so how he got hired? no idea.
regardless i just wanna chill and play games. waiting for elden ring dlc cause its so fun. until then im stuck on ghost of tsushima which has quickly become one of my favorites.