You have no idea how painful it is nobody ever copied the “epilogue” feature that Titanfall had. It still leaves my heart beating just barely escaping with my life in the dropship, never gets old and gives me that exact same rush you’d get from evacing in a tarkov style extraction shooter. Especially when the ship you escape in can also be destroyed, so you’re horribly stressed even if you make it inside.
It was so immersive; until people realized how to metagame it and just preemptively camped the extract zone and farmed the team. Would be cool to have a more dynamic version of the same mechanic
@@riloegaming agree. I think a masive problem of the extraction game is that there is like maybe 5 extraction point on any maps they are always at the exact same location and you know exactly which one are open and or what is required to open/use them. Like tarkov one requires that the player gets there hand on a gate key in order to escape at that point. meaning if a player on some maps dont have the item or any items they might only have 3 options to extract from. Im trying to remember what mod it was that had a mode where one player would need to escape whit a item from the map (team vs team) on each map there was like 40+ extractions point. at start the game would pick 20 of them (you could inspect all of them and see the 20 that was locked down like on a street there could be ether be police tape(exit open) or a crashed helicopter and a bus (the exit was closed) (this could be changed in server settings). the other 20 would relieve themself when the "item/objective" had been picked up (5 or so per side) plus 2 that was open for both side. note some extraction point was literally someone would blow up a wall from outside the map when the player whit the objective got close. so even if you knew that this was one of the possible extraction point you could not see that it was a possible exaction point (vs the street whit police tape vs wrecks). so some was like and the other team did not know what all the exit was only a few. so even if you know all the 40 location on a specific map. you did not know what exit was given to the other side when they picked up the objective.... minus the two that everyone now know was an option for both side. the other. so it was a bit of a hunt to guess what exit opened up and try to find the other team before they extracted.
For this sole reason some chunk of the match losses didn't feel like it. Escaping et the end of the match really felt like "it's not over, we'll get them next time".
Yeah, it was always a bit lame when someone would just nuclear eject at the ship. On the other hand it was a lot of fun to nuclear eject on top of the enemy team
I couldn't agree more. Was anyone looking for the "plumber brothers who navigate a mystical turtle realm" genre? No, but the game was just so fun that it caught on.
@@MachinedFace88ttv Because if you have to be objective, it's not a good game in the state it's in at the moment. They got good base foundations, and a nice core gameplay. But game get stale very quickly to be honest, even the quest are repetitive. Though I find the PvP relatively fun when the servers doesn't desync. Right now on top of optimisation, they have to start pumping out content if they want to retain players
I have said for a while that the thing Tarkov does well that other extraction shooters have failed to imitate properly is the *economy.* Tarkov is a game about its tertiary gameplay loop: managing your belongings, deciding what you need to risk, what you're willing to risk to give you an edge, and dealing with the consequences of those decisions after a raid. Tarkov's hideout is super important to its gameplay, and every other game on the market has always seemed to leave it for later. As if the primary game loop where I expect to die far more often than I expect to succeed will be enough to carry it.
You risk a bunch of kits and die a bunch, then scav reserve wipe a trio with quads, ospreys and meta guns. It always worth risking in eft. Or you get 1 tapped to the thorax while wearing a gen 4 assault bc the bullet missed the plate.
Imo Tarkov economy and everything that makes it some sort of survival shooter is geting fucked up by flea market existence, which turning it into plain shooter.
My hot take is that Lethal Company is the Extraction Shooter that hit the mainstream the way people claimed the genre would. And it did it while having almost none of the "shooter" aspect.
@@leetlc441 yea, lethal company is ok for what it is but unfortunately it's simply a fact/inevitable that the game is completely lacking due to only having one developer. A higher quality game with more content would be great. There's that content creator where you record your squad game which is higher quality graphically but it lacks content and a goal which I'd say makes the game worse than lethal company.
I've been saying for a while now that Phasmophobia did what extraction shooters did well on a PvE level. It has a clear objective gameplay loop, includes the risk Vs reward style and has a clear reason to want to extract. I'd call games like this though more extraction-like games as they're not shooters but still good and close enough.
I think that it will eventually become a more mainstream type of genre, just right now most of the bigger titles, like EFT and GZW are hardcore realistic shooters which are kind of niche. At least until a game like Marathon, which I imagine is going to be more of an arcade-esque title
probably, its just not the type of game loop that is comfortable to play for extended periods of time. being on a losing streak is extremely frustrating in tarkov or grayzone, usually i quit after losing a few gear sets.
Which is why they are successful in their niche. Complexity is appealing to the niche, and a great experience, keeping it fresh. But if that genre becomes mainstreamed, it will turn like all things touched by the mainstream, into the waters of the Ganges River.
"Battle royale was a direct response to film and literary media." While that's true thematically, I would argue that, gameplay wise, most extraction shooters are descendants of the Arma 2 DayZ mod - hence all the milsim aspects. Zombie survival (DayZ): "This is fun but you can go whole sessions without seeing players and there's A LOT of walking. Like a 90:10 walking to adrenaline ratio." Battle Royale (Pubg): "OK we added a shrinking circle and a win goal and force players into making contact and limit down time, effectively taking just the exciting parts of DayZ. But there's no fear of losing gear anymore and a match can usually be boiled down to only 2 different strats: contest populated areas or run around the outskirts to collect gear for the smallest circle." Extraction (Tarkov): "OK so fuck the circle and the big maps. We added back PvE, quests, and ephemeral gear instead. Maps are smaller and timed. Everything is more chaotic and random. There should be something here for every gamer now..." No idea what the next spin will be. Also the weirdest consistent piece of the above games' DNA is the ability to move your head separately from your gun.
Reinforcing the fact you're not a mobile gun platform but a (simulated) human, I really hope GZW introduces various movement stances and the low ready/chilling on patrol is the most prevalent one. On a side note, System Shock did it 30 years ago, immersive sim indeed.
SovietWomble made an entire video essay revolving around this, the different camps that players leaned towards with the rising popularity of arma 2 mods post-dayZ
While I do think ARMA 2/DayZ mod isthe bigger influence, the first 'battle royale' game I played that everyone forgets was Minecraft Hunger Games servers 😆
What people don't understand is that the appeal of Tarkov and Hunt isn't the fact that they are extraction shooters -- it's the game mechanics and world.
@@MsZsc It would help a lot more if both games weren't run by morons. Nikita loves to smell his own colon, and Crytek is too brain dead to understand that EAC is a garbage anti-cheat on top of their stupid battle pass crap.
So much this! One of the biggest appeals of Tarkov is the tactical gameplay rather than its extraction mechanic. The extraction mechanic is one of the things that prevents me from really getting into EFT and I really wish there was a good alternative to EFT that has the same level of tactical gameplay mechanics.
The Comment at the end really resonates with me. Hunt Showdown's gameplay is great, but it is the world that it inherits that makes it the top of it's class. It pulls from the last place you would think of in history and uses it to lure it into it's world. It's a world that is just as abandoned and unforgiving as Tarkov with that Gothic twist that turns it into a horror game at times. One highlight I love is that they have created an in-universe band called Port Sulpher Band that releases a new song every new event. Music is an acquired taste, but that extra mile really helps cement the unconscious immersion within a player that want's to learn more. This was an excellent video. Great Video!
AN ACQUIRED TASTE LIKE THE NEW HIT SONG BY PORT SULPHUR BAND love hunt, it is basically the perfect extraction shooter (and damn near a perfect pvp game) and you cant change my mind
out of all the systems devs could've copied or took inspiration from Tarkov, the extraction part was my least liked, my 2 favorite features of Tarkov are the inventory system and weapon customization, I love how in Tarkov, item storage isn't just a carry weight number, it's also size and shape of your storage, i like how the shape and size of your pockets, pouches and bags actually matters, like you can't carry a big square item in a long skinny bag, instead of just the usual +10 carry weight on bag items that other games use, I like that your weapon's magazine's exist as an in-game element, it's not just visual or +10 ammo upgrade, you can reload and retain your mags, throw away your mags, have plate carriers with mag pouches that fit your mags etc., I haven't seen this inventory system in other games before, I'd especially love to see it in an open-world story single player game, like a Stalker or Fallout game with tarkov inventory system.
I liked the concept of (how do I articulate this?) a forsaken city, cut off from the outside world, whose remains are being scavenged by the different PMC's and factions. Each group trying to take control of the city (for different reasons of course) and imposing their will on the others, all the while the U.N. (who shoot anyone trying to escape)and the rest of the world simply watches the sheer brutality of total anarchy.
I remember enjoying the whole tweaking and inventory management more than the actual shooty bit lol. PvP by default makes such fun systems a waste as PvP only really makes games shittier by default, just because people are shitty and some irritating systems like food/water bars and whatnot have to work the same for everyone. Those two damn bars should be banned from survival games. Or someone needs to make it more interesting other than making me unable to relax. More games need to focus on meaningful inventory management and customization like that for sure. And allow for moments of relaxing strolling around. I hate how every game with some sort of a survival aspect makes it a constant stress management simulator. It's like everyone forgot the very basics of game design, storytelling and whatnot. Its taught in every context. it has to come in waves. Everything in waves. When you stress 100% of the time, none of the combat is surprising, you don't ever get caught off guard or anything because you are just 110% stressed out and aware of everything all of the time. Some people enjoy that though I guess. They should probably get a job or something. You get to stress out so hard it'll get you hospitalized.
Depending on how you see it Deep Rock Galactic has both Extraction and Shooting. And the greatest thing/funniest thing is that the Extraction part is sometimes chaotic. From a simple trek while fighting against bugs, to a mad dash from one end of the cave to another. Then there's also the fact that I've seen and also been under the "No Dwarves Left Behind" mentality. Like you only got a few minutes left, someone got downed probably very far drom the drop pod but the game has instilled a sense of camaraderie even towards randos that you HAVE to save them.
I mean, by that logic basically every coop horde shooter is an extraction shooter. Darktide, Helldivers, Vermintide(less shooter, but still). Hell, even Payday in a way. But that is one hell of a retarded strain of logic, I have to add.
i think what most people are looking for is the sweet spot between survival, extraction shooter roguelike dating sim with a hint of battle royale with a little bit of rpg character devlopment/analog horror
So we've looped right back around to the division. You have the dark zone, the BR is very much survival based, it's a looter shooter RPG. Fairly sure it has a roguelike mode. If you blind yourself in one eye, develop cataracts in the other, start squinting, and you'll find it's also a dating sim! Falls flat on the analog horror front tho.
Marathon looks visually stunning. I love its art style (same can be said for your video editing, Riloe!). But like you said in the vid, it definitely gives Bungie an edge as they attempt to introduce a dedicated extraction shooter to the consoles.
It's still Bungie, look how mismanaged Destiny is. I have very little faith in Marathon. They should've worked with NightDive to remake Marathon like they did with System Shock, that would've been a superior product.
Too bad we'll never get it. They've fired the original game director and hired the director of Valorant to turn the game into a hero shooter😢 Cause apparently that's the new trend
@@agentoranj5858 that's ok, most gamers nowadays aren't even old enough to remember that the original marathon existed, they probably just chose to reuse the name so that game journos had something to latch on to
This video is just what I needed! Ive been casually developing a single player extraction shooter for the past few months, and trying to figure out if it could be commericially viable or not. Thanks for the insights!
With Tarkov bleeding out in a corner frantically looking for an esmarch after shooting themselves in the foot there's room for someone to take their place
There are a lot and i mean a lot of high payed people sitting on round tables. Trying to figure out how this next big extraction shooter thing works, and how they can get their part of the cake. Somehow you just packed it in a 15 min. easy to swallow pill for everyone, hope it gets heard by the right people. Awesome work keep it up.
One time I was driving home from work and I saw a guy walking on the sidewalk quickly run up to the window of a bank building, tap the glass HARD to get the attention of someone inside, take a few steps back, and absolutely nail a backflip right there on the sidewalk. He just walked away after that, never saw him again.
really glad you’re coming into your own with these video essay-lets, I remember your lore drops on tiktok and your narrative style is utterly captivating, good work!
Great video. I am still sad that Cycle did not survive, as a huge sci-fi enthusiast and extraction shooter enjoyer, there isn't really any alternative. Really hope that Marathon will be good. After 10 years of on/off playing Destiny, it is literally 50/50 with Bungo.
Loved the cycle. Just they flopped season 1 with not being able to address cheaters, which ruined its reputation even though it got to where cheaters weren't an issue. But then they couldn't decide between catering to hardcore or casual. Arc Raiders looks hopeful. Got to play the beta for it and it scratched that itch.
@@PyroTech03 Yeah man, sadly that' s how it went. I am excited about Arc Raiders as well, Embark are talented devs. The Finals is really unique (they kinda lost momentum after S1 but I think they can bounce back if they try). And Arc Raiders seems to have that vibe I really like so here's hoping
Anyone who played The Cycle before the Frontier rework has said that the devs ruined the game. Anyone who played The Cycle after the rework got to experience an extraction shooter with a decent potential turn to dust due to lack of care, be it from the players or the devs. It's a tragic case.
@@TheAkrillion You mean when it was a BR vs an extraction shooter? I liked the BR, but it didn't have a future. It was good that they dropped it and pivoted. Most people aren't aware about that era tho. Most only ever got to experience the extraction shooter. And the Frontier "rework" is what most are referring to when discussing it.
Thank you for including the caveat when you mentioned Ghosts of Tabor, you have no idea how tired I am of people calling it "just" Tarkov but in VR. To be clear I don't hate when people compare it to Tarkov, only when they use it to put down a great game.
I would argue that Tarkov has gotten it right, it just has external issues like cheaters, poor development team choices and PR choices. (Mainly nikita) Tarkov is the og, no matter how much people complain about the game, 99% of people always go back to it, otherwise the game would be dead. I love Tarkov but I also see it’s flaws. Overall as a game I would say out of any extraction shooter it’s the best. best lore, gunplay, weapon mechanics, good movement, a unique health system and such a huge expansive variety of guns, loot, attachments and items to collect and sell and use. Now I’m pretty new to Tarkov overall and I tend to die, a lot. But still, I always keep playing the game, I love the game, why? Because it’s got a solid foundation and nothing comes close to the adrenaline rush you get from PVP. Any other game and I would have stopped playing and given up, yet Tarkov, makes me want to get better. The maps, every single one feeling unique and with its own terrain, geography, buildings and bosses. One raid you might spawn factory and get Insta killed by tagilla. The next? You got 5-0 against a squad and get some of the best gear and weapons. Truly it is an awesome game.
Yeah Nikita is also a crybaby but tarkov is also really rng compared to ABI if you’re good in tarkov you someone bad can still drop you unlike ABI only issue I have with ABI is the mechanics feel terrible especially leaning
People need to let it die if they want actual improvement. SPT and modders have shown that BSG is a lazy ass company that just refuses to implement shit unless they're in a PR rush. It pathetic, childish, and frankly the reason why I ain't ever giving em another cent.
@@Idk-cz9msI’d argue that the rng is one of the good things in the game, when you’re fighting someone better than you and drop them with a lucky shot feels like crack
Dank Zone was SO MUCH FUN. i used to play it with my friends for hours on end. most of it was the jank though and the fact that it was essentially the first big extraction shooter (to the point where everyone just called it "Dark Zone"). because it was first, there wasn't any really good meta and there weren't any sweat lords to ruin the game. match making was never an issue because everyone was just as good or bad. you could stomp 10 times in a row, stealing extractions or fending off players, or you could get stomped. it was never a forgone conclusion. and our time never felt wasted. now the genre is fully sweat lord territory and its not even worth playing
DMZ was pretty damn good and still has a player base even though I moved on last year, beautiful light is looking amazing though and I'm actually hype for it Edit: I mentioned beautiful light before getting to that part of the vid
i was VERY pleasantly surprised by how good this video was. the thumbnail and title definitely give it the vibe of a run of the mill game design essay by someone who doesn't know what they're talking about, but WOW that is not the case at all. fantastic work, im about to watch your other videos since this one was so amazing. you should totally work on creating a super distinct thumbnail/title style, i think it would do WONDERS for making your vids stand out from the rest before people click, since once people start watching, the video itself is at an incredible level of quality so theyll be totally hooked
I think it that way, уou can make mix of 2 variants: 1) Your death dont matter at all, you just respawn and all loot will be here, killer will get a small reward and everyone move on. (e.g like it works in planetside 2 (not e-shooter) where you get money for killing and thats it) 2) When a character got killed he lose every item on him and also get some debuff in respawn zone. Problem with 1 is the more you add stuff like this the less *extraction* part is satisfying, when you swear, when you get your leg wounded and you crouch to the exit, where you get some good loot and really want to save it and so on. Problem with 2 is that for that game shoud work perfectly without lags or cheaters and with perfect balance of everything, which is totally not the case in such games, more like wise versa. And becouse of 2-nd problem people just rat in a corner, then kill a player who just looted and leave, and this marks whole janre as *rat games*
As someone that has played Hunt: Showdown since early access, it always brings me joy to see it get recognition for the unique and well crafted game that it is. Looking forward to August with the new engine update, hopefully more people will be able to experience it 🤠
Another banger of a video, Riloe. Thanks for the amazing work. Keep analyzing stuff you like, maybe do a music/ambient/sound design essay some time. Your soundtracks are always majestic, so you must be passionate about sound) Looking forward to your next upload)
I remember playing Dark Zone when it was forst released, and it was amazing. I remember fighting off a Hunter at an extraction zone with a random guy I met.
Outstanding video Riloe. I think that the future is very bright and I would love to see more games circle back to co-op missions you can complete with a friend or even an "All Ghillied Up" style with an AI counterpart. I have high hopes for the new games that are releasing!
Time sink is an understatement. I recently started playing Hunt. Over the past few months I have played about 50 or hours. And in that time have accomplished basically nothing. I have a rough idea of what my ideal loadout will be but I'm still tweaking it. And I still can't tell which map I’m on or where I am without consulting the map.
I think you nailed it with no one picked up eft because it was an extraction shooter. That was very much true for me. I bought in 2018 because of the focus on weapon simulation and realism.
Same. I have more hours on the SPT mod than the actual game. I dont care for the grind that requires time dedication i dont have, and no permanent satisfaction with wipes making it impossible to slowly achieve that endgame with the time i do have. Instead with SPT i dont have to constantly worry about max level players instantly dropping me before i see them, and can enjoy the weapon customization without fear of losing it or knowing that in a few months itll all be gone and i'd have to grind for it again
As someone who is making a game that has extraction shooter elements within it (both because I kinda like the genre/premise of the genre along with it being paramount to some of the gameplay/systems within it), doing market research on extraction shooters was astonishing to the point I was utterly baffled and had to show my friends the low amount of them just on the market. Or at the very least the tiny amount of games on steam that have the extraction shooter tags. Hunt being the best one in my opinion, and although I don't remember if it has the tag or not, GTFO is also up there (although, not really an extraction shooter, despite having the "drop in, kill things, extract" gameplay loop).
I'm looking forward to a purely PvE game that is extraction survival horror. The setting, time period, and objectives are different every time; sometime you know what you're walking into (regarding enemies), sometimes you don't. A derelict space ship in the depths of space (think Alien or Event Horizon), a derelict ocean liner in the 1800's, an outpost on a distant world, an ancient alien structure, the depths of a pyramid, an arctic research station, a deep sea habitat (not named Rapture), a haunted house, catacombs, etc. The mission might be a recovery operation (items, information, etc.), a rescue mission, or simply exploration and salvage. Each round begins with a planning phase, for example you and your crew come across a derelict ship in deep space. You need to determine if it's abandoned, if there are survivors who need rescue, or if it contains valuables surrounded by hostiles. You'd begin by determining the type of ship, searching your database for schematics, planning your route to high-value locations, learning how to operate the airlock and ship's systems, selecting your loadout, etc. You don't know what type of enemies you'll face until you get over there, and maybe you don't face any enemies until you're deep within the bowels of the ship and the only way out, is through. Maybe you're recovering an artifact on an alien world, fighting through small enemies only to be informed by your on-ship systems of a much larger creature on an intercept course. Suddenly you need to get that gd artifact NOW and get the hell out before "Mommy" shows up. Every round would feature planning, execution, and escape, and escape only happens if the planning and execution are near flawless. Think Extraction Shooter meets Left 4 Dead, Dead Space, Resident Evil, Alien, etc.
As someone who has sunk 1,500 hours into hunt showdown I've never found a game that quite itches that scratch as it does. I sunk 400 hours in the cycle and enjoyed it but the devs didn't listen to people and the amount of cheaters was absered with every game having at least one person flying across the map instant killing people with powerful weapons. I feel it could have been a good game, the world felt alive and was fun to explore but it was missing something, the amount of time it took to get good gear when thrown into a game with someone who had max gear and weapons was extremely unfair and off putting. Getting in with just a knife and killing someone with good gear was always so satisfying and probably my favorite thing to do in that game. I'm looking forward to seeing more games come out and hope we get another amazing game and world settings to explore!
Great video as usual, I just wanted to say that I’ve been following you for quite a while and it’s been great seeing you find your video format and develop your channel. With this being said, I look forward to your future videos and you can know for sure that I’ll be enjoying them here in Paris
Amazing video, you got yourself a new sub, no gonna lie what i enjoy the most about thoses extraction shooters is the personnality of the game, strong visual materials, that's why i'm really waiting for Beautiful light, it sound amazing and full of lore and story and look cinematic, atleast from what we've seen so far.
I know you already covered it, but I think we just might be about to get one of these games that utterly shatters the mindless mold of its predecessors. Because I’ve never liked this genre, yet The Forever Winter has me sitting up and paying attention now.
@@OrionDawn15 because there is monetary gain by cheating in those games, cheaters most often sell items online and by cheating it's easier to acquire them.
Actually, the most underrated youtuber I have ever seen. These videos are top tier. You have not let us down and you just keep pushing out beautiful content. Keep doing your thing Riloe.
I think the extraction shooter would be a great game loop in something like a larger MMO. Much like Dark Zone was a smaller segment of the larger game. I'm working on a 2d ORPG that has an extraction loop introduced in its mid-game. Gotten good feedback on it thus far.
i played tarkov for about 3 years before the devs drove me and my friends away, i can say without a shadow of a doubt it was one of the most influential games ive played. With no story it solely bases how it effects you on how well your doing. I got furious, so furious in fact that it boiled over so much i no longer have anger issues, it brought me friends, lifelong friends i never would have met if it wasnt for tarkov. It brought me passions in alot of stuff like history and firearms i wouldve never had without tarkov. While the game might be dying it was fun while it lasted.
The lineage of this gameplay, both Extraction and Battle Royale, is Arma 2. Arma 2 mods like Wasteland and DayZ established the aesthetics and gameplay for most of these games. Submods like DayZ Survival Games fully realized the gamemode that PUBG later cloned. While there wasnt extraction in DayZ/Wasteland, both mods featured base building, safe zones, quests, and NPC traders, so fundamentally all of the game systems were there already and were creating "extraction" gameplay emergently, but without railroading you into a repetitive loop.
@@riloegaming Last twenty years? Try thirty, Half Life 1 came out in 1998, and it was the very first of it's kind to have an actual story be at the forefront in a shooter, paving the way for what we have now. Crazy that it's been 25 years since Half Life came out, crazy.
You need to pay close attention to ARC Raiders. And keep an eye out at Summer Games Fest on June 7th, because it’s dev team is there. It’s the same dev team that made THE FINALS, which is an extremely high quality FPS game. The team has a crazy amount of experience and ARC Raiders is going to be the first big extraction shooter on console. It’s also been in development for 5+ years, but it hasn’t seen much attention because there hasn’t been any public gameplay out, but I believe that’s about to change pretty soon….
I haven't heard anything about ARC in so long that I straight up forgot it existed. I have been following it since it was announced, very much anticipated
@@riloegaming I can say from playing the alpha even in its early state the aesthetic has been nailed with quite good controls. The gameplay loop was also clearly defined and I found it suprising how much fun I was having with something so early access. It feels like EFT Lite. Not as crazy complex as EFT but has its core and is a little more in line with the casualness of Hunt Showdown.
Another fundamental issue is developers thinking making a great struggle inattentive means their players will feel and massive reward for doing so. But for the same reason people procrastinate no effort chores (take in out the trash takes less than a minute), if that pre assumed reward is not their then it regardless of how easy or simple the task maybe people do not feel engaged.-
Wonderful analysis here, Marathon is really setting the genre up for lots of exposure with the console launch, and I'm hoping we get some good gameplay at the PlayStation showcase happening soon. Thanks for the video :D
Extraction shooters have always existed we just called them horde mode. Same thing match starts you complete objectives then survive extraction the extraction period. That is the basic formula with everyone's different spin on it. Mass effect multiplayer: drop in, complete 10-20 waves, 2min extraction round, and get on the choppa Lets look at Helldivers, same thing instead waves are replaced with a list of objectives and a time limit.
Extraction shooters aren't fun to me personally, because there is so much on the line, but at the same time, nothing is. Winning in an extraction shooter makes your gameplay next time better, losing makes it worse, which makes losing streaks just absolutely horrible like nothing else. A type of extraction game I really enjoy though, are extraction racers. Yes, racing games like Need For Speed Heat and Rivals where you're hunted by the police and "extract" into a hideout with your riches. I find them far more interesting, because in racing games, even if your car would be lost after getting caught, the differences between cars is never as stark as guns and equipment in a shooter, making it far easier to get back into the game. I think there is a lot of potential for other "extraction" type games, be it a multiplayer Dark Souls type game or some sort of tank or plane game in the vein of war thunder, I think they could be a lot of fun with a central "extraction" mechanic.
I'm surprised no extraction shooter has tried replicating F.E.A.R (first one) enemy ai system, it would make PvE actually fun and engaging and make the rewards actually feel like something you earned since you had to fight actual threats.
It wouldnt really work. FEAR was so good because it was linear, every combat encounter could be carefully handcrafted, and another big part of it was the audio callouts, which made the AI seem smarter than they actually were.
I can guarantee you, 90% of Tarkov sales came from: "WHOA DUDE, look how I can dismantle my M4 and make it something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT in this game!" Also partially: "Look how I can move in this, fire around the side or up top without peeking from cover, adjust my height and side angle gradually, also if I'm shot in the leg I will limp or shot in the arm, I can't aim properly, if I'm shot in the stomach I will caugh around like a mad man and lose my food bars quicker." Maybe even a little bit of "look at that Chocolate bar, it's literally just Snickers! How cool is that?" These are, guaranteed the 2-3 core pillars that made it work and is why a chinese copy like Arena Breakout, without aesthetic appeal or even bareable lore can captivate that exact audience to a tee.
That what made me stay in Tarkov. Locations are believable places in the world first and game level second. As a person who lives in Russia - Streets of Tarkov are actual god damn streets of the city. I was able to use street sings and numbers on the houses to orient myself. Locations of cafes, stores ect. makes so much sense. I barely feel on the game level.
Man, DMZ was great though. It frequently had you experience unscripted single player-like moments, like intentionally letting a squad of players run right past you, Ghillie In The Mist style just to name one. It's extraction method with physically calling in extraction with a flare, alerting anyone who sees it, having to survive and physically board the helicopter was a great addition too that on it's own created intense and memorable moments, when just about every other game in the genre just has you standing in a spot, waiting for a countdown. Same goes for the endgame phase with the expanding radiation zone forcing many last minute attempts at escaping while fighting off both other players over the final extract zones as well as the AI that would actually run away from the radiation to save themselves (whereas other games just fade to black the moment timer does down to 0). The pro-socializing squad merge and plea for help systems, even though they had their problems, and great, diverse quests also added to the experience. That mode really doesn't get a fraction of the credit it deserves.
As if majority of new Baldur's Gate 3 players were already a huge fan of that genre - no. Same with Lethal Company. Many many indies. And the list goes on.
one of my favourite games the cycle has died because it went from a casual extraction battle royale where in theory everyone could win (so it was cool, chill and relatively low stakes, you event got a second respawn after you died) to a grindy anxiety inducing hardcore unbalanced extraction shooter.
Extraction shooters are just battle royals with a different coat of paint, it's to make you think it's a whole new game with a different play, but in reality your still dropping in a zone, you have 1 life, you find loot, and you fight to the last one alive, with some slapping the option to leave with your loot. It doesn't change much of the formular up enough to be different, It's like how in the past we had the zombie craze, so games became zombie games, then survival games started getting popular, and the 2 merged with zombie survival, Extraction shooters are the zombie survival, BR was the craze, then they slap a bit extra on it and boom you got the same as the zombie survival thing all over again. BR's have been around for yonks now and like any genera burn out will happen, same with BR as well, when new games come out and there are 2 or 3 that dominate the market, why would people buy and put time in to a new game, for example, why play any other BR game when you've played Fortnite or Apex and you put money in it, you have all these skins and items you grinded for, this happens with every game specially now with how some will ask you to pay £50 for the game then ask for endless amounts for the rest of the content with the awful excuse if "It's cosmetics only" despite that is still locking content that should be free behind a pay way, like selling a game where the assets and textures are not there and you need to pay for those meshes and textures, you would get the "It's only aesthetics" and people saying you don't need the graphics and can just play it with UE mannequins and block out assets. With the BR/Extraction shooter comparison with how they are the same with just a few things here and there tweaked, it's like how Team Death Match, Capture the Flag, King of the Hill and all those are the same game mode, when your done with TDM, CTF will feel a little fresh, but over time shortly you will notice that the game plays the same just few things are tweaked, and you then start to notice that King of the hill is the same and so are the rest, this is why old games would have multiple modes that tweak a lot of features, like the modes where the characters can super jump, or like with Halo's Griffball, it tweaks more and infection to, they are rooted in the base loop of the game but give different tweaks and variety, Extraction shooter is the same for BR, it's a nice tweak to the genera but the problem is, it's 1 game mode, the one thing that is annoying to find in a game is another extraction shooter or BR and that is all it is, there are no other game modes, nothing to break away from the repetitive loop, old games like Cod and Halo wouldn't launch with just 1 game mode and that being free 4 all and that's it, t had different modes that spiced it up, they would give you the same game mode but now things are tweaked different, and they would give you a bunch, want a team shooter where you collect something and bring it back to your base, you got CTF, want a Team shooter where your team go and stand on points to gain points, you got KotH, want to just kill for points with your team, you got TDM, then if you wanted a bit more of a change from that formular, you got Griffbal, oddball, Kill Confirmed, Search and Destroy, Infection, these game modes would still be to the basic formular of the game but tweaked a lot more giving the player variety. I think there are a few problems games suffer with and Extractions shooters could suffer from them. 1.The same repetitive game with no variety. (Though Extraction shooters are supposed to be "Replayable" they can get tiering and repetitive and so players will want to take a break and play something else, which in reality that is good, no game should be played 24 hours non stop, people should stop from time to time and play something else, but every game wanting to be a ES gives people less variety and so they get burnt out more on the genera, where before people would play a different game mode on the game, and wouldn't really need to jump to a different one much) 2. Hitting the Main stream. (the problem with this is the fact that when something is popular, companies will jump on it, they will then oversaturate the market and cause burn out and as this video said at the start, where people go "Ugh another extraction shooter") 3. needing that quick dopamine hit. (A lot of games now want to give their players that quick dopamine hit, which ends up making the game consonantly need to keep supplying those high moments, the problem there though is no game should do that, and Extraction shooters seem like they are the opposite, they are slower, your not being forced to fight nor having wall close in on you, it's all on your terms, leading to every action being fully on you, but a bit like the mainstream part, they want to appeal to the main steam who need that dopamine hit 24/7 which makes the ES games have the "oh that's boring let's play Fortnite" or any other main stream dopamine pumping game. 4. Expensive money makers ( A lot of games now are all anti consumer friendly or at least the Triple A games are, they suffer from things like FOMO and Paid cosmetics, these games are designed to milk the player of their money and they will always do it in scummy ways that people don't notice, for example as I said games now suffer from FOMO, they lock things behind awful battle passes and so on which leads to people missing out or being put off by the fact they can't express themselves now without spending £20 on a single item, then you get the excuse "It's only cosmetics" which never makes sense and I don't know why people make the excuse, they are arguing against something that benefits them and everyone, but people will defend awful games being bad when people want them to get better again why are you defending the idea of a game not improving, do you not want a fun and good working game?, anyway, Cosmetics is part of the game, people argued how cosmetics was a key part of Halo's multiplayer and I would argue that to, and there is no argument to go against it since most games want to let the player "Express themselves" and they talk about how "letting the players express and be who they want to be is a very important part of gaming" yet that all is ignored when it comes to paid cosmetics, it breeds a toxic standard for people and games and in the end some people like to think most people don't care about cosmetics, yet they make a shit ton of money and everyone has a skin in game and it's super rare to find a default, specially since most skins will be paid skins, people care about cosmetics enough to pay for them, and so people can be put off from a game from the FOMO and Paid cosmetics) There are probably many more, and it's one of those things where there are so many factors that all come in to play with these games, but these are the ones I notice and have pointed out with games and how these genera's suffer from these problems, there is so so so much more I haven't covered.In the end it would be best if Extraction Shooters don't hit the main steam and end up being healthy as a game genera out of the triple A's eyes that can actually survive and sustain it's self unlike most things Triple A touch where they drain and milk it dry then kill them off, it's a bit why Tarkov is taking a massive hit, it's getting to greedy well Hunt is understanding the importance of sustaining a healthy life and not going over bord like Triple A games and Tarkov.
This comment is really misleading, first of all you don't even have to fight to the last man, most people just loot and leave if they're strapped for money in an extraction shooter. Unlike BR's there's a third element to the extraction shooter which is an in-game economy, you sell stuff to other players that you find are valuable, now you have to make important decisions on which stuff to take and keep and which to leave behind in order o give you an edge against other players, there's also a base-maintenance aspect if you play Tarkov, you pick which components to focus on first that would make your experience in fights or your stats better. All three of these Battle Royales lack.
@Tacitus3D Like I said, it's the same a BR with a few extras, just like as I said how in old games like Halo and Cod, all their other game modes were the same with some extras and changes ie, TDM is just kill for points, CTF adds in that you have to capture for points with each team having a base if it's halo and others just a open spot, you got Infection where now players change teams when dead and instead of both teams run and gunning, one finds a spot to huncker down and the other go in for the attack swarming, those game modes are still all the same, they are things you can very easily tweek to make them all with the base gameplay system these games have which is an arena shooter, trying to make a BR out of them or an Extraction shooter won't work because it's a completely different thing, but if you make a BR you can easily make an extraction shooter because they use a lot of the same element's and just like how TDM, CTF and Infection change the gameplay up a bit but overall doesn't change it massively to feel like a new experience, BR is you spawn in a map, you then run around looking for loot, you decide which fights to pick and you make choices based on of you have the right tools or not, what item is better and so on, the only difference is you will have to fight at the end and hopefully you made the right chocies and hopefully you can find a way to have the upper hand, extraction shooters use a lot of the same formula, it's why games like Cod could slap it in and reuse a lot of their Warzone features, you just remove the barrier slowly closing in, or not and put in options to extract or let players fight to the last man. It adds a bit extra like CTF or Infection does to TDM but it's still built off of the BR formular and thats why we have Extraction shooters, they were from people thinking of ways to change BR like how Fortnite and Apex slowly add stuff to BR like revive vans and so on. The extra stuff that some ES like Tarkov is small things that different ones might add or not or if it's a popular thing in it they do what fortnite did and add it in to their one because Apex did it and people liked, its why fortnite has revive vans. Maybe this will help understand what I'm getting at if I'm being comfusing, You have a survival game. It's the typical survival game, you build a base, survive, and and defend against raids and so on, the typical Rust or Old survival game thing, now you got a survival game like that one with the base mechs that has a system where the server starts to die and you need to get out of the map/server to a new one to survive and keep your stuff, it's stil la survival game but it's a big change, you now need to extract like an extraction shooter. Survival games have been doing this stuff a lot where they try and change up the formular, like Project Zombiod, the recent Abiotic Factory, 7 Days to die, some drastically and some just a few tweeks, though they don't change it up massively to not still feel like a survival game and if you're burnt out from survival games these games won't do enough to change that, it's what the start of this video he states that people keep going "Not another extraction shooter" as he also states that there aren't that many, so why are people having this response, it's because BR has been around for so so so long and people are getting burnt out and extraction shooters aren't that big of a change, they are still hopping in to a big empty map, they are still having to fight against randoms that if they die they are sent back to the menu, they are still scavaging for loot, the extraction part and keeping the loot doesn't really change the fact that they still are doing a lot of what they did in BRs and so they are burnt out. They need a massive formular change that changes the core experience, they want something that isn't 1 life stuff, that isn't spawning in a big empty map scavaging for loot and can start from square 1 if they loose.
1:34 : But then could open-world, mission-based shooters like STALKER be considered as a form of extraction shooters? I'm thinking about the main mods like Anomaly (which pretty much 95% of players play on) with permadeath settings and a focus on taking on jobs and increasing goodwill. Like, you have a mission, either you complete it, get the loot, rewards, and can take on more missions, either you die and lose all your gear earned from previous missions, which sounds pretty much like the "gamble-your-gear" concept of extraction shooter
dark and darker was so close to getting the extraction shooter genre right. nut the devs being inexperienced and the issues with promoting the game caused it to miss as well. not to mention glaring balancing issues. but it got my blood pumping like no extraction game had since tarkov.
I never knew what an extraction shooter was until a friend told me about a little known VR game called Ghosts of tabor. I haven’t found a game better yet.
Pvz garden warfare is the earlier example of extraction shooter with its garden ops mode, where the goal is to pick a spot and survive 10 rounds with the "op" only succeeding if you survive one final wave where you gotta stay in a zone to be picked up for extraction After giving it some thought left 4 deads final chapter of every campaign typically has extraction themes with the goal just being hold the point until the rescue method of the chapter is available
great vid man, severely underrated. personally love extraction shooters, but don’t bother even trying to get any of my friends on them. it’s a gameplay style that’s difficult to enjoy imo.
While The Division didn't really have good gunplay I really enjoyed the first month of dark zone and the feeling of the world. The time before any "meta" sets in was extremely fun, especially the prerelease freeweekend.
An extraction shooter that I thought had potential that I saw no one talk about online was Second Extinction. You drop in, shoot dinosaurs while doing quests, and then leave with the resources before you die. I really wish more people would've given it a chance and that it could've escaped early access because it was fun and likely would've been more fun with added depth that I don't doubt would've come later.
I'm a fan of Hunt, and the suspense makes the genre really stands out, hence why they all are slow-paced. Slow-paced is necessary to keep the players in the game world instead of throwing them into constant combats and that's why most of them have grounded setting and player move at human speed. Would love to see more PVE extraction shooter though. Not only to avoid cheaters, but also for more manageable difficulty and game balance. For every winning player in PVP, there is always a losing player, which is not the case for PVE games. Even for hard game like Dark Souls, you can still take your time to win unlike PVP where you get unlucky sometime (and lucky for your enemy).
Your channel is criminally underrated. I am very excited for the extraction genre as a whole too. I wonder what Riloe thinks of Dark and Darker as it's also very promising.
I remember watching the first ever DayZ mod Survival Games live. It was a youtuber event that lasted for a few hours, they really tried to make it as close to the Hunger Games as they could. Never realized it was gonna turn into such a massive genre. Although, when the Hunger Games did come out, I knew it would be an amazing concept for a video game
im waiting for a game that does 1980's sci-fi otherworld horror (think stranger things) with a good atmosphere and survival / shooter mechanics, there is a game called Generation Zero that did this very well, even if the world seemed kinda barren, it made that moment when you ran into robots even scarier, trekking through the forest and fields in silence for 10 minutes only to hear sirens in the distance slowly growing closer is some of the best atmosphere i have ever experienced... unfortunately, and this is mostly down to personal taste, with new updates and new robots and such, it feels more like a warzone than an eerie apocalypse, so while i enjoy it i cant wait for another game to do it again, except this time lean more into the horror and mystery. rant over, cool video
You made me feel sad and nostalgic when the Cycle Frontier Soundtrack kicked in, I just loved the Game. Sound first, the Artstyle second, the foliage with its reflections in the sun was just unmatched... and I feel like there is no good alternative that has that kind of sound and artstyle. I want it back D:
![Jack Harlow - Hello Miss Johnson [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Q86_nlRoIGw/mqdefault.jpg)
You have no idea how painful it is nobody ever copied the “epilogue” feature that Titanfall had. It still leaves my heart beating just barely escaping with my life in the dropship, never gets old and gives me that exact same rush you’d get from evacing in a tarkov style extraction shooter. Especially when the ship you escape in can also be destroyed, so you’re horribly stressed even if you make it inside.
It was so immersive; until people realized how to metagame it and just preemptively camped the extract zone and farmed the team. Would be cool to have a more dynamic version of the same mechanic
@@riloegaming agree.
I think a masive problem of the extraction game is that there is like maybe 5 extraction point on any maps they are always at the exact same location and you know exactly which one are open and or what is required to open/use them.
Like tarkov one requires that the player gets there hand on a gate key in order to escape at that point.
meaning if a player on some maps dont have the item or any items they might only have 3 options to extract from.
Im trying to remember what mod it was that had a mode where one player would need to escape whit a item from the map (team vs team)
on each map there was like 40+ extractions point.
at start the game would pick 20 of them (you could inspect all of them and see the 20 that was locked down like on a street there could be ether be police tape(exit open) or a crashed helicopter and a bus (the exit was closed) (this could be changed in server settings).
the other 20 would relieve themself when the "item/objective" had been picked up (5 or so per side) plus 2 that was open for both side.
note some extraction point was literally someone would blow up a wall from outside the map when the player whit the objective got close.
so even if you knew that this was one of the possible extraction point you could not see that it was a possible exaction point (vs the street whit police tape vs wrecks).
so some was like and the other team did not know what all the exit was only a few.
so even if you know all the 40 location on a specific map.
you did not know what exit was given to the other side when they picked up the objective.... minus the two that everyone now know was an option for both side.
the other. so it was a bit of a hunt to guess what exit opened up and try to find the other team before they extracted.
For this sole reason some chunk of the match losses didn't feel like it. Escaping et the end of the match really felt like "it's not over, we'll get them next time".
@@riloegaming over time, players will always optimize the fun out of a game.
Yeah, it was always a bit lame when someone would just nuclear eject at the ship.
On the other hand it was a lot of fun to nuclear eject on top of the enemy team
"Popularity will come naturally when a product is good" THIIIIIIIIISSSSSS! Love the video and analysis.
Cheers!
Tarkov took the survival game and packaged it into a gameplay loop called a raid... It's that simple man@@riloegaming
I couldn't agree more. Was anyone looking for the "plumber brothers who navigate a mystical turtle realm" genre? No, but the game was just so fun that it caught on.
Funny GZW wasn't mentioned ONCE in this video XD .
@@MachinedFace88ttv Because if you have to be objective, it's not a good game in the state it's in at the moment. They got good base foundations, and a nice core gameplay. But game get stale very quickly to be honest, even the quest are repetitive. Though I find the PvP relatively fun when the servers doesn't desync.
Right now on top of optimisation, they have to start pumping out content if they want to retain players
I have said for a while that the thing Tarkov does well that other extraction shooters have failed to imitate properly is the *economy.* Tarkov is a game about its tertiary gameplay loop: managing your belongings, deciding what you need to risk, what you're willing to risk to give you an edge, and dealing with the consequences of those decisions after a raid. Tarkov's hideout is super important to its gameplay, and every other game on the market has always seemed to leave it for later. As if the primary game loop where I expect to die far more often than I expect to succeed will be enough to carry it.
You risk a bunch of kits and die a bunch, then scav reserve wipe a trio with quads, ospreys and meta guns. It always worth risking in eft. Or you get 1 tapped to the thorax while wearing a gen 4 assault bc the bullet missed the plate.
Imo Tarkov economy and everything that makes it some sort of survival shooter is geting fucked up by flea market existence, which turning it into plain shooter.
@@winvey Then dont use flea market, because if they remove it its gonna ruin the game entirely and completely kill the playerbase.
But you have to play a ton to get to that point.
@@kylejaynes Level 15, and then scav main for a while to get your economy rolling. Ez
My hot take is that Lethal Company is the Extraction Shooter that hit the mainstream the way people claimed the genre would. And it did it while having almost none of the "shooter" aspect.
I would love a game like Lethal Company with high quality visuals, models, animations, and some form of pvpve, even if it's just melee
@@leetlc441 yea, lethal company is ok for what it is but unfortunately it's simply a fact/inevitable that the game is completely lacking due to only having one developer. A higher quality game with more content would be great. There's that content creator where you record your squad game which is higher quality graphically but it lacks content and a goal which I'd say makes the game worse than lethal company.
You know what, i haven't thought of it like that but I like it.
I've been saying for a while now that Phasmophobia did what extraction shooters did well on a PvE level. It has a clear objective gameplay loop, includes the risk Vs reward style and has a clear reason to want to extract. I'd call games like this though more extraction-like games as they're not shooters but still good and close enough.
its not a shooter fym
extraction shooters always were and always will be a very niche game that just doesn't interest the masses
I think that it will eventually become a more mainstream type of genre, just right now most of the bigger titles, like EFT and GZW are hardcore realistic shooters which are kind of niche. At least until a game like Marathon, which I imagine is going to be more of an arcade-esque title
probably, its just not the type of game loop that is comfortable to play for extended periods of time.
being on a losing streak is extremely frustrating in tarkov or grayzone, usually i quit after losing a few gear sets.
Which is why they are successful in their niche. Complexity is appealing to the niche, and a great experience, keeping it fresh.
But if that genre becomes mainstreamed, it will turn like all things touched by the mainstream, into the waters of the Ganges River.
@@juliomontega2868 I guess i hadn't thought of it like that
most people are, surprisingly, are not masochists with 12 hours of free time.
"Battle royale was a direct response to film and literary media." While that's true thematically, I would argue that, gameplay wise, most extraction shooters are descendants of the Arma 2 DayZ mod - hence all the milsim aspects.
Zombie survival (DayZ): "This is fun but you can go whole sessions without seeing players and there's A LOT of walking. Like a 90:10 walking to adrenaline ratio."
Battle Royale (Pubg): "OK we added a shrinking circle and a win goal and force players into making contact and limit down time, effectively taking just the exciting parts of DayZ. But there's no fear of losing gear anymore and a match can usually be boiled down to only 2 different strats: contest populated areas or run around the outskirts to collect gear for the smallest circle."
Extraction (Tarkov): "OK so fuck the circle and the big maps. We added back PvE, quests, and ephemeral gear instead. Maps are smaller and timed. Everything is more chaotic and random. There should be something here for every gamer now..."
No idea what the next spin will be.
Also the weirdest consistent piece of the above games' DNA is the ability to move your head separately from your gun.
Reinforcing the fact you're not a mobile gun platform but a (simulated) human, I really hope GZW introduces various movement stances and the low ready/chilling on patrol is the most prevalent one. On a side note, System Shock did it 30 years ago, immersive sim indeed.
SovietWomble made an entire video essay revolving around this, the different camps that players leaned towards with the rising popularity of arma 2 mods post-dayZ
While I do think ARMA 2/DayZ mod isthe bigger influence, the first 'battle royale' game I played that everyone forgets was Minecraft Hunger Games servers 😆
@@TheWolfbat513 Minecraft BR is definitely inspired more by Hunger Games and the Battle Royale movie. You can tell from the spawn points lmao.
Stalker existed before all of them and is the biggest inspiration to Tarkov for example.
What people don't understand is that the appeal of Tarkov and Hunt isn't the fact that they are extraction shooters -- it's the game mechanics and world.
tarkov would be the model T of its kind, somebody just needs to make literally everything better and more human-focused
@@MsZsc It would help a lot more if both games weren't run by morons. Nikita loves to smell his own colon, and Crytek is too brain dead to understand that EAC is a garbage anti-cheat on top of their stupid battle pass crap.
Yeah. I love the world and look of Hunt. But goddamn I wish it wasn't an extraction shooter.
So much this! One of the biggest appeals of Tarkov is the tactical gameplay rather than its extraction mechanic. The extraction mechanic is one of the things that prevents me from really getting into EFT and I really wish there was a good alternative to EFT that has the same level of tactical gameplay mechanics.
Hunt showdown has such a cool vibe
The Comment at the end really resonates with me. Hunt Showdown's gameplay is great, but it is the world that it inherits that makes it the top of it's class. It pulls from the last place you would think of in history and uses it to lure it into it's world. It's a world that is just as abandoned and unforgiving as Tarkov with that Gothic twist that turns it into a horror game at times. One highlight I love is that they have created an in-universe band called Port Sulpher Band that releases a new song every new event. Music is an acquired taste, but that extra mile really helps cement the unconscious immersion within a player that want's to learn more.
This was an excellent video. Great Video!
Cheers!
Yeah the music in Hunt does a ton to sell it’s whole tone
AN ACQUIRED TASTE LIKE THE NEW HIT SONG BY PORT SULPHUR BAND
love hunt, it is basically the perfect extraction shooter (and damn near a perfect pvp game) and you cant change my mind
@@johnswift6541 It's one of their best in a long while. My favorite is Miner's Lament
@@gentlemangamerec7025 Mine's Devil In The Churchyard. Or the groovy Poison Curse.
out of all the systems devs could've copied or took inspiration from Tarkov, the extraction part was my least liked, my 2 favorite features of Tarkov are the inventory system and weapon customization, I love how in Tarkov, item storage isn't just a carry weight number, it's also size and shape of your storage, i like how the shape and size of your pockets, pouches and bags actually matters, like you can't carry a big square item in a long skinny bag, instead of just the usual +10 carry weight on bag items that other games use, I like that your weapon's magazine's exist as an in-game element, it's not just visual or +10 ammo upgrade, you can reload and retain your mags, throw away your mags, have plate carriers with mag pouches that fit your mags etc., I haven't seen this inventory system in other games before, I'd especially love to see it in an open-world story single player game, like a Stalker or Fallout game with tarkov inventory system.
I liked the concept of (how do I articulate this?) a forsaken city, cut off from the outside world, whose remains are being scavenged by the different PMC's and factions.
Each group trying to take control of the city (for different reasons of course) and imposing their will on the others, all the while the U.N. (who shoot anyone trying to escape)and the rest of the world simply watches the sheer brutality of total anarchy.
I remember enjoying the whole tweaking and inventory management more than the actual shooty bit lol.
PvP by default makes such fun systems a waste as PvP only really makes games shittier by default, just because people are shitty and some irritating systems like food/water bars and whatnot have to work the same for everyone. Those two damn bars should be banned from survival games. Or someone needs to make it more interesting other than making me unable to relax.
More games need to focus on meaningful inventory management and customization like that for sure. And allow for moments of relaxing strolling around. I hate how every game with some sort of a survival aspect makes it a constant stress management simulator. It's like everyone forgot the very basics of game design, storytelling and whatnot. Its taught in every context. it has to come in waves. Everything in waves.
When you stress 100% of the time, none of the combat is surprising, you don't ever get caught off guard or anything because you are just 110% stressed out and aware of everything all of the time.
Some people enjoy that though I guess. They should probably get a job or something. You get to stress out so hard it'll get you hospitalized.
@@declanjones8888 that's also STALKER
Depending on how you see it Deep Rock Galactic has both Extraction and Shooting. And the greatest thing/funniest thing is that the Extraction part is sometimes chaotic.
From a simple trek while fighting against bugs, to a mad dash from one end of the cave to another.
Then there's also the fact that I've seen and also been under the "No Dwarves Left Behind" mentality. Like you only got a few minutes left, someone got downed probably very far drom the drop pod but the game has instilled a sense of camaraderie even towards randos that you HAVE to save them.
If we're counting DRG might as well throw in Left 4 Dead
It has extraction, but it isn't an extraction shooter because you're not risking what you take into a mission.
Dude DRG is so fvcking amazing
I mean, by that logic basically every coop horde shooter is an extraction shooter. Darktide, Helldivers, Vermintide(less shooter, but still). Hell, even Payday in a way. But that is one hell of a retarded strain of logic, I have to add.
i think what most people are looking for is the sweet spot between survival, extraction shooter roguelike dating sim with a hint of battle royale with a little bit of rpg character devlopment/analog horror
So we've looped right back around to the division.
You have the dark zone, the BR is very much survival based, it's a looter shooter RPG. Fairly sure it has a roguelike mode.
If you blind yourself in one eye, develop cataracts in the other, start squinting, and you'll find it's also a dating sim!
Falls flat on the analog horror front tho.
@@somethingsomewhat8860 no that honestly sounds horrifying
Is it a Soulslike though?
@@somethingsomewhat8860 Falls flat on the analog horror front? You clearly never got raped by a squad of people running bleed builds as a solo in DZ.
Don't forget the survival crafting and base building and a battle pass for the optimal sense of pride and accomplishment.
I'm so glad you highlighted Hunt's crisp audio. No other game has beat them since.
Marathon looks visually stunning. I love its art style (same can be said for your video editing, Riloe!). But like you said in the vid, it definitely gives Bungie an edge as they attempt to introduce a dedicated extraction shooter to the consoles.
It's still Bungie, look how mismanaged Destiny is. I have very little faith in Marathon.
They should've worked with NightDive to remake Marathon like they did with System Shock, that would've been a superior product.
Too bad we'll never get it. They've fired the original game director and hired the director of Valorant to turn the game into a hero shooter😢
Cause apparently that's the new trend
@@JudahOkore yeah I was disappointed to hear that news too. I want to customize my own character and kit. None of the preselect hero classes bs.
The trouble is it looks nothing like Marathon. It might underperform for the same reason Prey 2017 did.
@@agentoranj5858 that's ok, most gamers nowadays aren't even old enough to remember that the original marathon existed, they probably just chose to reuse the name so that game journos had something to latch on to
This video is just what I needed! Ive been casually developing a single player extraction shooter for the past few months, and trying to figure out if it could be commericially viable or not. Thanks for the insights!
I wish you success on your game bro.
Cheers!
That is what i thought DMZ would be, it's close, but not my groove
With Tarkov bleeding out in a corner frantically looking for an esmarch after shooting themselves in the foot there's room for someone to take their place
Fun Dog Studios seems to have heard that clarion call long before it ever sounded. Because The Forever Winter is looking amazing.
@@OneBiasedOpinion I'm soooooo tentatively excited for it! EvEvP is the dynamic I've been searching for my whole gaming life.
There are a lot and i mean a lot of high payed people sitting on round tables. Trying to figure out how this next big extraction shooter thing works, and how they can get their part of the cake. Somehow you just packed it in a 15 min. easy to swallow pill for everyone, hope it gets heard by the right people. Awesome work keep it up.
Even though it's not an extraction SHOOTER, I'm saddened there was no mention of Dark and Darker.
Dark and darker is so goood
riloe you should do a backflip and record it
he def saw this and didnt comment
Hell yeah
One time I was driving home from work and I saw a guy walking on the sidewalk quickly run up to the window of a bank building, tap the glass HARD to get the attention of someone inside, take a few steps back, and absolutely nail a backflip right there on the sidewalk. He just walked away after that, never saw him again.
@@arenomusic now I want you to do a backflip
@@arenomusic What a chad
really glad you’re coming into your own with these video essay-lets, I remember your lore drops on tiktok and your narrative style is utterly captivating, good work!
Cheers! Thanks for coming along for the ride!
Great analysis. Let's see what the future holds to this Genre.
Imagine division 1 with ghost recon game play, with a healing, eating and drinking, that’s the game i want.
isnt that almost the survival dlc from division 1?
the way the clips are strung together is just artwork, making me hopeful for one of these games to pop off and se what the future beholds
Great video. I am still sad that Cycle did not survive, as a huge sci-fi enthusiast and extraction shooter enjoyer, there isn't really any alternative. Really hope that Marathon will be good. After 10 years of on/off playing Destiny, it is literally 50/50 with Bungo.
Played the Cycle play test, it needed so much work
Loved the cycle. Just they flopped season 1 with not being able to address cheaters, which ruined its reputation even though it got to where cheaters weren't an issue. But then they couldn't decide between catering to hardcore or casual. Arc Raiders looks hopeful. Got to play the beta for it and it scratched that itch.
@@PyroTech03 Yeah man, sadly that' s how it went. I am excited about Arc Raiders as well, Embark are talented devs. The Finals is really unique (they kinda lost momentum after S1 but I think they can bounce back if they try). And Arc Raiders seems to have that vibe I really like so here's hoping
Anyone who played The Cycle before the Frontier rework has said that the devs ruined the game. Anyone who played The Cycle after the rework got to experience an extraction shooter with a decent potential turn to dust due to lack of care, be it from the players or the devs. It's a tragic case.
@@TheAkrillion You mean when it was a BR vs an extraction shooter?
I liked the BR, but it didn't have a future. It was good that they dropped it and pivoted. Most people aren't aware about that era tho. Most only ever got to experience the extraction shooter. And the Frontier "rework" is what most are referring to when discussing it.
Thank you for including the caveat when you mentioned Ghosts of Tabor, you have no idea how tired I am of people calling it "just" Tarkov but in VR.
To be clear I don't hate when people compare it to Tarkov, only when they use it to put down a great game.
I would argue that Tarkov has gotten it right, it just has external issues like cheaters, poor development team choices and PR choices. (Mainly nikita) Tarkov is the og, no matter how much people complain about the game, 99% of people always go back to it, otherwise the game would be dead. I love Tarkov but I also see it’s flaws. Overall as a game I would say out of any extraction shooter it’s the best. best lore, gunplay, weapon mechanics, good movement, a unique health system and such a huge expansive variety of guns, loot, attachments and items to collect and sell and use. Now I’m pretty new to Tarkov overall and I tend to die, a lot. But still, I always keep playing the game, I love the game, why? Because it’s got a solid foundation and nothing comes close to the adrenaline rush you get from PVP. Any other game and I would have stopped playing and given up, yet Tarkov, makes me want to get better. The maps, every single one feeling unique and with its own terrain, geography, buildings and bosses. One raid you might spawn factory and get Insta killed by tagilla. The next? You got 5-0 against a squad and get some of the best gear and weapons. Truly it is an awesome game.
Yeah Nikita is also a crybaby but tarkov is also really rng compared to ABI if you’re good in tarkov you someone bad can still drop you unlike ABI only issue I have with ABI is the mechanics feel terrible especially leaning
People need to let it die if they want actual improvement. SPT and modders have shown that BSG is a lazy ass company that just refuses to implement shit unless they're in a PR rush. It pathetic, childish, and frankly the reason why I ain't ever giving em another cent.
@@Idk-cz9msI’d argue that the rng is one of the good things in the game, when you’re fighting someone better than you and drop them with a lucky shot feels like crack
too bad they tried to milk the consumers
We're just getting tarkov'd guys cmon
7:03 When that OG Halo soundtrack started I knew @Riloe is a real 1
Omg Riloe, your cinematography is absolutely great! And thank you for reminding me about Beautiful Lights and Marathon!
Dank Zone was SO MUCH FUN. i used to play it with my friends for hours on end. most of it was the jank though and the fact that it was essentially the first big extraction shooter (to the point where everyone just called it "Dark Zone"). because it was first, there wasn't any really good meta and there weren't any sweat lords to ruin the game. match making was never an issue because everyone was just as good or bad. you could stomp 10 times in a row, stealing extractions or fending off players, or you could get stomped. it was never a forgone conclusion. and our time never felt wasted. now the genre is fully sweat lord territory and its not even worth playing
DMZ was pretty damn good and still has a player base even though I moved on last year, beautiful light is looking amazing though and I'm actually hype for it
Edit: I mentioned beautiful light before getting to that part of the vid
i was VERY pleasantly surprised by how good this video was. the thumbnail and title definitely give it the vibe of a run of the mill game design essay by someone who doesn't know what they're talking about, but WOW that is not the case at all.
fantastic work, im about to watch your other videos since this one was so amazing. you should totally work on creating a super distinct thumbnail/title style, i think it would do WONDERS for making your vids stand out from the rest before people click, since once people start watching, the video itself is at an incredible level of quality so theyll be totally hooked
Thank you!!
[Lethal Company] may be missing the "shooter" and PvP parts of [Extraction Shooter], but it is the one that reached mainstream attention.
Yeah it's a great example of a really creative take on the genre! Hope we see more like it
I think it that way, уou can make mix of 2 variants:
1) Your death dont matter at all, you just respawn and all loot will be here, killer will get a small reward and everyone move on. (e.g like it works in planetside 2 (not e-shooter) where you get money for killing and thats it)
2) When a character got killed he lose every item on him and also get some debuff in respawn zone.
Problem with 1 is the more you add stuff like this the less *extraction* part is satisfying, when you swear, when you get your leg wounded and you crouch to the exit, where you get some good loot and really want to save it and so on.
Problem with 2 is that for that game shoud work perfectly without lags or cheaters and with perfect balance of everything, which is totally not the case in such games, more like wise versa.
And becouse of 2-nd problem people just rat in a corner, then kill a player who just looted and leave, and this marks whole janre as *rat games*
I love how much effort you put in these video essays. Tremendous content.
As someone that has played Hunt: Showdown since early access, it always brings me joy to see it get recognition for the unique and well crafted game that it is.
Looking forward to August with the new engine update, hopefully more people will be able to experience it 🤠
@@ShuraYoshida 100%!
Another banger of a video, Riloe. Thanks for the amazing work. Keep analyzing stuff you like, maybe do a music/ambient/sound design essay some time. Your soundtracks are always majestic, so you must be passionate about sound)
Looking forward to your next upload)
Thank you!
I remember playing Dark Zone when it was forst released, and it was amazing. I remember fighting off a Hunter at an extraction zone with a random guy I met.
Outstanding video Riloe. I think that the future is very bright and I would love to see more games circle back to co-op missions you can complete with a friend or even an "All Ghillied Up" style with an AI counterpart. I have high hopes for the new games that are releasing!
Agreed!
Time sink is an understatement. I recently started playing Hunt. Over the past few months I have played about 50 or hours. And in that time have accomplished basically nothing. I have a rough idea of what my ideal loadout will be but I'm still tweaking it. And I still can't tell which map I’m on or where I am without consulting the map.
I think you nailed it with no one picked up eft because it was an extraction shooter. That was very much true for me. I bought in 2018 because of the focus on weapon simulation and realism.
Same. I have more hours on the SPT mod than the actual game. I dont care for the grind that requires time dedication i dont have, and no permanent satisfaction with wipes making it impossible to slowly achieve that endgame with the time i do have. Instead with SPT i dont have to constantly worry about max level players instantly dropping me before i see them, and can enjoy the weapon customization without fear of losing it or knowing that in a few months itll all be gone and i'd have to grind for it again
Man your videos are insanely well made and voiced, loved the forever winter one too, made me discover the game, I am hyped! Subbed
As someone who is making a game that has extraction shooter elements within it (both because I kinda like the genre/premise of the genre along with it being paramount to some of the gameplay/systems within it), doing market research on extraction shooters was astonishing to the point I was utterly baffled and had to show my friends the low amount of them just on the market. Or at the very least the tiny amount of games on steam that have the extraction shooter tags. Hunt being the best one in my opinion, and although I don't remember if it has the tag or not, GTFO is also up there (although, not really an extraction shooter, despite having the "drop in, kill things, extract" gameplay loop).
I'm looking forward to a purely PvE game that is extraction survival horror. The setting, time period, and objectives are different every time; sometime you know what you're walking into (regarding enemies), sometimes you don't. A derelict space ship in the depths of space (think Alien or Event Horizon), a derelict ocean liner in the 1800's, an outpost on a distant world, an ancient alien structure, the depths of a pyramid, an arctic research station, a deep sea habitat (not named Rapture), a haunted house, catacombs, etc. The mission might be a recovery operation (items, information, etc.), a rescue mission, or simply exploration and salvage. Each round begins with a planning phase, for example you and your crew come across a derelict ship in deep space. You need to determine if it's abandoned, if there are survivors who need rescue, or if it contains valuables surrounded by hostiles. You'd begin by determining the type of ship, searching your database for schematics, planning your route to high-value locations, learning how to operate the airlock and ship's systems, selecting your loadout, etc. You don't know what type of enemies you'll face until you get over there, and maybe you don't face any enemies until you're deep within the bowels of the ship and the only way out, is through. Maybe you're recovering an artifact on an alien world, fighting through small enemies only to be informed by your on-ship systems of a much larger creature on an intercept course. Suddenly you need to get that gd artifact NOW and get the hell out before "Mommy" shows up. Every round would feature planning, execution, and escape, and escape only happens if the planning and execution are near flawless. Think Extraction Shooter meets Left 4 Dead, Dead Space, Resident Evil, Alien, etc.
Man these thumbnails and edits are sooo cool
Thanks the hot dog guy!!
As someone who has sunk 1,500 hours into hunt showdown I've never found a game that quite itches that scratch as it does. I sunk 400 hours in the cycle and enjoyed it but the devs didn't listen to people and the amount of cheaters was absered with every game having at least one person flying across the map instant killing people with powerful weapons. I feel it could have been a good game, the world felt alive and was fun to explore but it was missing something, the amount of time it took to get good gear when thrown into a game with someone who had max gear and weapons was extremely unfair and off putting. Getting in with just a knife and killing someone with good gear was always so satisfying and probably my favorite thing to do in that game. I'm looking forward to seeing more games come out and hope we get another amazing game and world settings to explore!
Great video as usual, I just wanted to say that I’ve been following you for quite a while and it’s been great seeing you find your video format and develop your channel.
With this being said, I look forward to your future videos and you can know for sure that I’ll be enjoying them here in Paris
you do this better than a veteran journalist, every video you make is so well put together and presented. thanks for all your hard work.
Thank you!
What a fuckin banger video, insane execution and great editing.
Great points all round, and a great watch.
I love your consistent use of Halo music in your videos. You’re a man of great taste!
Quality video as always. Love this kind of stuff and you raise some really compelling points and questions..
Great video man, I have a huge love for the budding genre and I'm really excited to see where it all goes.
Amazing video, you got yourself a new sub, no gonna lie what i enjoy the most about thoses extraction shooters is the personnality of the game, strong visual materials, that's why i'm really waiting for Beautiful light, it sound amazing and full of lore and story and look cinematic, atleast from what we've seen so far.
Cheers, and agreed!
I know you already covered it, but I think we just might be about to get one of these games that utterly shatters the mindless mold of its predecessors. Because I’ve never liked this genre, yet The Forever Winter has me sitting up and paying attention now.
Doesn’t help that both Hunt and Tarkov are killing themselves with monetization
and cheaters...
@@charvatek3241 Cheaters seems to be a bit of a prevalent problem with extraction shooters in general. As far as I know anyway.
@@OrionDawn15 because there is monetary gain by cheating in those games, cheaters most often sell items online and by cheating it's easier to acquire them.
@@Narko_Marko There isn't any monetary gain to be made on Hunt, they just cheat because they suck ass
Actually, the most underrated youtuber I have ever seen. These videos are top tier. You have not let us down and you just keep pushing out beautiful content. Keep doing your thing Riloe.
Thank you so much!
I think the extraction shooter would be a great game loop in something like a larger MMO. Much like Dark Zone was a smaller segment of the larger game.
I'm working on a 2d ORPG that has an extraction loop introduced in its mid-game. Gotten good feedback on it thus far.
i played tarkov for about 3 years before the devs drove me and my friends away, i can say without a shadow of a doubt it was one of the most influential games ive played. With no story it solely bases how it effects you on how well your doing. I got furious, so furious in fact that it boiled over so much i no longer have anger issues, it brought me friends, lifelong friends i never would have met if it wasnt for tarkov. It brought me passions in alot of stuff like history and firearms i wouldve never had without tarkov. While the game might be dying it was fun while it lasted.
The lineage of this gameplay, both Extraction and Battle Royale, is Arma 2. Arma 2 mods like Wasteland and DayZ established the aesthetics and gameplay for most of these games. Submods like DayZ Survival Games fully realized the gamemode that PUBG later cloned. While there wasnt extraction in DayZ/Wasteland, both mods featured base building, safe zones, quests, and NPC traders, so fundamentally all of the game systems were there already and were creating "extraction" gameplay emergently, but without railroading you into a repetitive loop.
Arma 2 is one of the most fundamentally important games of the last 20 years, alongside Half Life and Minecraft, imo.
@@riloegaming absolutely
@@riloegaming Last twenty years? Try thirty, Half Life 1 came out in 1998, and it was the very first of it's kind to have an actual story be at the forefront in a shooter, paving the way for what we have now. Crazy that it's been 25 years since Half Life came out, crazy.
You deserve millions of subscribers dawg I absolutely love your content and the style that you do it in
🫡🫡
You need to pay close attention to ARC Raiders. And keep an eye out at Summer Games Fest on June 7th, because it’s dev team is there. It’s the same dev team that made THE FINALS, which is an extremely high quality FPS game. The team has a crazy amount of experience and ARC Raiders is going to be the first big extraction shooter on console. It’s also been in development for 5+ years, but it hasn’t seen much attention because there hasn’t been any public gameplay out, but I believe that’s about to change pretty soon….
I haven't heard anything about ARC in so long that I straight up forgot it existed. I have been following it since it was announced, very much anticipated
@@riloegaming I can say from playing the alpha even in its early state the aesthetic has been nailed with quite good controls. The gameplay loop was also clearly defined and I found it suprising how much fun I was having with something so early access. It feels like EFT Lite. Not as crazy complex as EFT but has its core and is a little more in line with the casualness of Hunt Showdown.
Another fundamental issue is developers thinking making a great struggle inattentive means their players will feel and massive reward for doing so. But for the same reason people procrastinate no effort chores (take in out the trash takes less than a minute), if that pre assumed reward is not their then it regardless of how easy or simple the task maybe people do not feel engaged.-
I know it wasn’t massively popular but DMZ was the shit and it being free made it even better
yeah how did dmz not differentiate itself? it was a more casual extraction shooter rather than insane hardcore use 5 types of different healing game
and it was insanely popular, part of the recent boom in extraction shooter games
I played dead zone on Roblox and that’s the first ever extraction shooter I’ve played. This game was made around 2010 or 2012
Wonderful analysis here, Marathon is really setting the genre up for lots of exposure with the console launch, and I'm hoping we get some good gameplay at the PlayStation showcase happening soon. Thanks for the video :D
Extraction shooters have always existed we just called them horde mode. Same thing match starts you complete objectives then survive extraction the extraction period. That is the basic formula with everyone's different spin on it.
Mass effect multiplayer: drop in, complete 10-20 waves, 2min extraction round, and get on the choppa
Lets look at Helldivers, same thing instead waves are replaced with a list of objectives and a time limit.
Extraction shooters aren't fun to me personally, because there is so much on the line, but at the same time, nothing is. Winning in an extraction shooter makes your gameplay next time better, losing makes it worse, which makes losing streaks just absolutely horrible like nothing else.
A type of extraction game I really enjoy though, are extraction racers. Yes, racing games like Need For Speed Heat and Rivals where you're hunted by the police and "extract" into a hideout with your riches. I find them far more interesting, because in racing games, even if your car would be lost after getting caught, the differences between cars is never as stark as guns and equipment in a shooter, making it far easier to get back into the game.
I think there is a lot of potential for other "extraction" type games, be it a multiplayer Dark Souls type game or some sort of tank or plane game in the vein of war thunder, I think they could be a lot of fun with a central "extraction" mechanic.
True!
Wait until they add a Traction Avant or a 2CV to the car list. P50, Trident and Motocompo would be my pick of vehicles though.
Another Riloe classic. I think it’s time for me to properly subscribe now 😅 Keep it up, man!
Cheers!
I'm surprised no extraction shooter has tried replicating F.E.A.R (first one) enemy ai system, it would make PvE actually fun and engaging and make the rewards actually feel like something you earned since you had to fight actual threats.
It wouldnt really work. FEAR was so good because it was linear, every combat encounter could be carefully handcrafted, and another big part of it was the audio callouts, which made the AI seem smarter than they actually were.
@@aceambling7685 good point actually but it would be fun fighting against enemies that actually work together
marathon looks pretty cool! like instead of blood it would be team colored paint spraying out of your enemies.
I can guarantee you, 90% of Tarkov sales came from: "WHOA DUDE, look how I can dismantle my M4 and make it something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT in this game!"
Also partially: "Look how I can move in this, fire around the side or up top without peeking from cover, adjust my height and side angle gradually, also if I'm shot in the leg I will limp or shot in the arm, I can't aim properly, if I'm shot in the stomach I will caugh around like a mad man and lose my food bars quicker."
Maybe even a little bit of "look at that Chocolate bar, it's literally just Snickers! How cool is that?"
These are, guaranteed the 2-3 core pillars that made it work and is why a chinese copy like Arena Breakout, without aesthetic appeal or even bareable lore can captivate that exact audience to a tee.
The “gun-porn” stuff in EFT alone (and Hunt actually, with a different aesthetic) are huge draws
That what made me stay in Tarkov. Locations are believable places in the world first and game level second. As a person who lives in Russia - Streets of Tarkov are actual god damn streets of the city. I was able to use street sings and numbers on the houses to orient myself. Locations of cafes, stores ect. makes so much sense. I barely feel on the game level.
Man, DMZ was great though. It frequently had you experience unscripted single player-like moments, like intentionally letting a squad of players run right past you, Ghillie In The Mist style just to name one. It's extraction method with physically calling in extraction with a flare, alerting anyone who sees it, having to survive and physically board the helicopter was a great addition too that on it's own created intense and memorable moments, when just about every other game in the genre just has you standing in a spot, waiting for a countdown. Same goes for the endgame phase with the expanding radiation zone forcing many last minute attempts at escaping while fighting off both other players over the final extract zones as well as the AI that would actually run away from the radiation to save themselves (whereas other games just fade to black the moment timer does down to 0). The pro-socializing squad merge and plea for help systems, even though they had their problems, and great, diverse quests also added to the experience. That mode really doesn't get a fraction of the credit it deserves.
As if majority of new Baldur's Gate 3 players were already a huge fan of that genre - no. Same with Lethal Company. Many many indies. And the list goes on.
one of my favourite games the cycle has died because it went from a casual extraction battle royale where in theory everyone could win (so it was cool, chill and relatively low stakes, you event got a second respawn after you died) to a grindy anxiety inducing hardcore unbalanced extraction shooter.
The drum breaks back a video essay super well tbh.
Extraction shooters are just battle royals with a different coat of paint, it's to make you think it's a whole new game with a different play, but in reality your still dropping in a zone, you have 1 life, you find loot, and you fight to the last one alive, with some slapping the option to leave with your loot. It doesn't change much of the formular up enough to be different, It's like how in the past we had the zombie craze, so games became zombie games, then survival games started getting popular, and the 2 merged with zombie survival, Extraction shooters are the zombie survival, BR was the craze, then they slap a bit extra on it and boom you got the same as the zombie survival thing all over again.
BR's have been around for yonks now and like any genera burn out will happen, same with BR as well, when new games come out and there are 2 or 3 that dominate the market, why would people buy and put time in to a new game, for example, why play any other BR game when you've played Fortnite or Apex and you put money in it, you have all these skins and items you grinded for, this happens with every game specially now with how some will ask you to pay £50 for the game then ask for endless amounts for the rest of the content with the awful excuse if "It's cosmetics only" despite that is still locking content that should be free behind a pay way, like selling a game where the assets and textures are not there and you need to pay for those meshes and textures, you would get the "It's only aesthetics" and people saying you don't need the graphics and can just play it with UE mannequins and block out assets.
With the BR/Extraction shooter comparison with how they are the same with just a few things here and there tweaked, it's like how Team Death Match, Capture the Flag, King of the Hill and all those are the same game mode, when your done with TDM, CTF will feel a little fresh, but over time shortly you will notice that the game plays the same just few things are tweaked, and you then start to notice that King of the hill is the same and so are the rest, this is why old games would have multiple modes that tweak a lot of features, like the modes where the characters can super jump, or like with Halo's Griffball, it tweaks more and infection to, they are rooted in the base loop of the game but give different tweaks and variety, Extraction shooter is the same for BR, it's a nice tweak to the genera but the problem is, it's 1 game mode, the one thing that is annoying to find in a game is another extraction shooter or BR and that is all it is, there are no other game modes, nothing to break away from the repetitive loop, old games like Cod and Halo wouldn't launch with just 1 game mode and that being free 4 all and that's it, t had different modes that spiced it up, they would give you the same game mode but now things are tweaked different, and they would give you a bunch, want a team shooter where you collect something and bring it back to your base, you got CTF, want a Team shooter where your team go and stand on points to gain points, you got KotH, want to just kill for points with your team, you got TDM, then if you wanted a bit more of a change from that formular, you got Griffbal, oddball, Kill Confirmed, Search and Destroy, Infection, these game modes would still be to the basic formular of the game but tweaked a lot more giving the player variety.
I think there are a few problems games suffer with and Extractions shooters could suffer from them.
1.The same repetitive game with no variety. (Though Extraction shooters are supposed to be "Replayable" they can get tiering and repetitive and so players will want to take a break and play something else, which in reality that is good, no game should be played 24 hours non stop, people should stop from time to time and play something else, but every game wanting to be a ES gives people less variety and so they get burnt out more on the genera, where before people would play a different game mode on the game, and wouldn't really need to jump to a different one much)
2. Hitting the Main stream. (the problem with this is the fact that when something is popular, companies will jump on it, they will then oversaturate the market and cause burn out and as this video said at the start, where people go "Ugh another extraction shooter")
3. needing that quick dopamine hit. (A lot of games now want to give their players that quick dopamine hit, which ends up making the game consonantly need to keep supplying those high moments, the problem there though is no game should do that, and Extraction shooters seem like they are the opposite, they are slower, your not being forced to fight nor having wall close in on you, it's all on your terms, leading to every action being fully on you, but a bit like the mainstream part, they want to appeal to the main steam who need that dopamine hit 24/7 which makes the ES games have the "oh that's boring let's play Fortnite" or any other main stream dopamine pumping game.
4. Expensive money makers ( A lot of games now are all anti consumer friendly or at least the Triple A games are, they suffer from things like FOMO and Paid cosmetics, these games are designed to milk the player of their money and they will always do it in scummy ways that people don't notice, for example as I said games now suffer from FOMO, they lock things behind awful battle passes and so on which leads to people missing out or being put off by the fact they can't express themselves now without spending £20 on a single item, then you get the excuse "It's only cosmetics" which never makes sense and I don't know why people make the excuse, they are arguing against something that benefits them and everyone, but people will defend awful games being bad when people want them to get better again why are you defending the idea of a game not improving, do you not want a fun and good working game?, anyway, Cosmetics is part of the game, people argued how cosmetics was a key part of Halo's multiplayer and I would argue that to, and there is no argument to go against it since most games want to let the player "Express themselves" and they talk about how "letting the players express and be who they want to be is a very important part of gaming" yet that all is ignored when it comes to paid cosmetics, it breeds a toxic standard for people and games and in the end some people like to think most people don't care about cosmetics, yet they make a shit ton of money and everyone has a skin in game and it's super rare to find a default, specially since most skins will be paid skins, people care about cosmetics enough to pay for them, and so people can be put off from a game from the FOMO and Paid cosmetics)
There are probably many more, and it's one of those things where there are so many factors that all come in to play with these games, but these are the ones I notice and have pointed out with games and how these genera's suffer from these problems, there is so so so much more I haven't covered.In the end it would be best if Extraction Shooters don't hit the main steam and end up being healthy as a game genera out of the triple A's eyes that can actually survive and sustain it's self unlike most things Triple A touch where they drain and milk it dry then kill them off, it's a bit why Tarkov is taking a massive hit, it's getting to greedy well Hunt is understanding the importance of sustaining a healthy life and not going over bord like Triple A games and Tarkov.
This comment is really misleading, first of all you don't even have to fight to the last man, most people just loot and leave if they're strapped for money in an extraction shooter. Unlike BR's there's a third element to the extraction shooter which is an in-game economy, you sell stuff to other players that you find are valuable, now you have to make important decisions on which stuff to take and keep and which to leave behind in order o give you an edge against other players, there's also a base-maintenance aspect if you play Tarkov, you pick which components to focus on first that would make your experience in fights or your stats better. All three of these Battle Royales lack.
@Tacitus3D Like I said, it's the same a BR with a few extras, just like as I said how in old games like Halo and Cod, all their other game modes were the same with some extras and changes ie, TDM is just kill for points, CTF adds in that you have to capture for points with each team having a base if it's halo and others just a open spot, you got Infection where now players change teams when dead and instead of both teams run and gunning, one finds a spot to huncker down and the other go in for the attack swarming, those game modes are still all the same, they are things you can very easily tweek to make them all with the base gameplay system these games have which is an arena shooter, trying to make a BR out of them or an Extraction shooter won't work because it's a completely different thing, but if you make a BR you can easily make an extraction shooter because they use a lot of the same element's and just like how TDM, CTF and Infection change the gameplay up a bit but overall doesn't change it massively to feel like a new experience, BR is you spawn in a map, you then run around looking for loot, you decide which fights to pick and you make choices based on of you have the right tools or not, what item is better and so on, the only difference is you will have to fight at the end and hopefully you made the right chocies and hopefully you can find a way to have the upper hand, extraction shooters use a lot of the same formula, it's why games like Cod could slap it in and reuse a lot of their Warzone features, you just remove the barrier slowly closing in, or not and put in options to extract or let players fight to the last man. It adds a bit extra like CTF or Infection does to TDM but it's still built off of the BR formular and thats why we have Extraction shooters, they were from people thinking of ways to change BR like how Fortnite and Apex slowly add stuff to BR like revive vans and so on.
The extra stuff that some ES like Tarkov is small things that different ones might add or not or if it's a popular thing in it they do what fortnite did and add it in to their one because Apex did it and people liked, its why fortnite has revive vans.
Maybe this will help understand what I'm getting at if I'm being comfusing, You have a survival game. It's the typical survival game, you build a base, survive, and and defend against raids and so on, the typical Rust or Old survival game thing, now you got a survival game like that one with the base mechs that has a system where the server starts to die and you need to get out of the map/server to a new one to survive and keep your stuff, it's stil la survival game but it's a big change, you now need to extract like an extraction shooter. Survival games have been doing this stuff a lot where they try and change up the formular, like Project Zombiod, the recent Abiotic Factory, 7 Days to die, some drastically and some just a few tweeks, though they don't change it up massively to not still feel like a survival game and if you're burnt out from survival games these games won't do enough to change that, it's what the start of this video he states that people keep going "Not another extraction shooter" as he also states that there aren't that many, so why are people having this response, it's because BR has been around for so so so long and people are getting burnt out and extraction shooters aren't that big of a change, they are still hopping in to a big empty map, they are still having to fight against randoms that if they die they are sent back to the menu, they are still scavaging for loot, the extraction part and keeping the loot doesn't really change the fact that they still are doing a lot of what they did in BRs and so they are burnt out. They need a massive formular change that changes the core experience, they want something that isn't 1 life stuff, that isn't spawning in a big empty map scavaging for loot and can start from square 1 if they loose.
A bicycle is just a car with some changes. Idiotic take bro
What a great analysis. thanks for sharing!
another lovely video. its so sad that ive already mostly forgot ab cycle, it had such great potential it just didnt catch on to the audience
1:34 : But then could open-world, mission-based shooters like STALKER be considered as a form of extraction shooters?
I'm thinking about the main mods like Anomaly (which pretty much 95% of players play on) with permadeath settings and a focus on taking on jobs and increasing goodwill.
Like, you have a mission, either you complete it, get the loot, rewards, and can take on more missions, either you die and lose all your gear earned from previous missions, which sounds pretty much like the "gamble-your-gear" concept of extraction shooter
6:28 stalker does it better
the hunt: showdown comes to mind as one of the earliest examples.
I talk about it quite a bit in the video
0:48 what game is this?
late answer but it's FFXI and the boss is Absolute Virtue
dark and darker was so close to getting the extraction shooter genre right. nut the devs being inexperienced and the issues with promoting the game caused it to miss as well. not to mention glaring balancing issues. but it got my blood pumping like no extraction game had since tarkov.
I never knew what an extraction shooter was until a friend told me about a little known VR game called Ghosts of tabor. I haven’t found a game better yet.
The background music choices are top tier, heard some halo 2 and cycle frontier ost and my nostalgia hit
Pvz garden warfare is the earlier example of extraction shooter with its garden ops mode, where the goal is to pick a spot and survive 10 rounds with the "op" only succeeding if you survive one final wave where you gotta stay in a zone to be picked up for extraction
After giving it some thought left 4 deads final chapter of every campaign typically has extraction themes with the goal just being hold the point until the rescue method of the chapter is available
MechWarrior, 1989
great vid man, severely underrated.
personally love extraction shooters, but don’t bother even trying to get any of my friends on them. it’s a gameplay style that’s difficult to enjoy imo.
While The Division didn't really have good gunplay I really enjoyed the first month of dark zone and the feeling of the world. The time before any "meta" sets in was extremely fun, especially the prerelease freeweekend.
Bro, I could tell that that looter shooter to extraction shooter comment was from a marathon video! xD
One of them was, but I think the other was from ARC Raiders
dark zone had me scared out my mind in middle school man, love the division. awesome video!!
Loving the halo background music
An extraction shooter that I thought had potential that I saw no one talk about online was Second Extinction. You drop in, shoot dinosaurs while doing quests, and then leave with the resources before you die. I really wish more people would've given it a chance and that it could've escaped early access because it was fun and likely would've been more fun with added depth that I don't doubt would've come later.
You make some crazy high quality videos, it’s inspiring honestly. I wanna give it a shot with your style but not sure lol.
I'm a fan of Hunt, and the suspense makes the genre really stands out, hence why they all are slow-paced. Slow-paced is necessary to keep the players in the game world instead of throwing them into constant combats and that's why most of them have grounded setting and player move at human speed. Would love to see more PVE extraction shooter though. Not only to avoid cheaters, but also for more manageable difficulty and game balance. For every winning player in PVP, there is always a losing player, which is not the case for PVE games. Even for hard game like Dark Souls, you can still take your time to win unlike PVP where you get unlucky sometime (and lucky for your enemy).
Your channel is criminally underrated. I am very excited for the extraction genre as a whole too. I wonder what Riloe thinks of Dark and Darker as it's also very promising.
Cheers!
Not really into the aesthetic of D&D which is make or break for me. But I know many are into it!
I remember watching the first ever DayZ mod Survival Games live. It was a youtuber event that lasted for a few hours, they really tried to make it as close to the Hunger Games as they could. Never realized it was gonna turn into such a massive genre.
Although, when the Hunger Games did come out, I knew it would be an amazing concept for a video game
Marathon looks so sick, I love the aesthetic so much, I hope it succeeds 🙏
im waiting for a game that does 1980's sci-fi otherworld horror (think stranger things) with a good atmosphere and survival / shooter mechanics, there is a game called Generation Zero that did this very well, even if the world seemed kinda barren, it made that moment when you ran into robots even scarier, trekking through the forest and fields in silence for 10 minutes only to hear sirens in the distance slowly growing closer is some of the best atmosphere i have ever experienced... unfortunately, and this is mostly down to personal taste, with new updates and new robots and such, it feels more like a warzone than an eerie apocalypse, so while i enjoy it i cant wait for another game to do it again, except this time lean more into the horror and mystery.
rant over, cool video
That’s a great vibe! Love slow burns like that.
You made me feel sad and nostalgic when the Cycle Frontier Soundtrack kicked in, I just loved the Game. Sound first, the Artstyle second, the foliage with its reflections in the sun was just unmatched... and I feel like there is no good alternative that has that kind of sound and artstyle. I want it back D:
Your editing is always TOP TIER. Ty for the vid pookie
God finally I see someone else who's excited by the Marathon extraction shooter. I salivate over the trailer it's visual design is so fucking good
this video might get a ton of views. You are a good content creator, good luck buddy.