Watch Shelfside review for Grimcoven! Lot of potential (he said it’s a tentative 5/10 as it is now, but could climb to be a 9/10) but yeah expected more even at the prototype stage. It’s an hour and a half of goodness. Essentially it’s hard at first, you kill the elite and then it’s a cakewalk when it’s just the boss and minions. Especially with the portals that let you kite the boss so much.
@@stianhaugen4016 well, 5/10 that jumped to 6/10 just because he’s a sucker for their minis and quality (in a good way). Either way, I’m not going all in on a 5 or 6. But yes, he did change it to 6.
It is an excellent and well thought out review. I am very much on the fence about the campaign now after seeing it. Awaken Realms may be able to fix the issues but that is not a guarantee (look at games like Etherfields and Tamashii which both have significant issues with their final versions)
Man, I do not understand your attitude. Gamefound and Kickstarter are full of absolutely garbage games. There are no rulebooks in every case and even if there is, they always say these rules can be change to the final version. I do not see, what is your problem with Personal stories. For example Nemesis was not a campaign game and it totally worked, but it also had few campaign expansion. Anyway, stretch goals gives you a ton of boss battling extra and replayability, that you missed so much. I have watched about 10 videos from 19 you mentioned and it is true, the game is not perfect, it has small mistakes/imperfections and I hope they manage to correct it to the final version, but why you so negative? I think it is big, trustworthy company, the value/price ratio is good, the art and component quality is excellent. If you dont like the mechanics of the game it is OK, this game is not for everyone, but than what was your purpose with this video? You did not give us any new information, you told only your fears and personal opinions about gamefound campaign page. The problem with opinions, that most people have it, but we usually shit on them.
Grimcoven looks like some kind of experiment to me. AI art (not just the few pictures that started the shitstorm) was the first red flag. If they are willing to take shortcuts there, why would they not try this with the rules and other design choices too? to me it looks like a test to see how much they can get away with. Not saying the game couldnt be good, but from what I see I am not sold at all and there simply isnt enough information about the game for me to risk spending my money on this.
I love the typo in the Grimcoven ("Grimcvoen") in the Story Scenarios box. They have a million bucks in pledges in a few hours but no one caught that? And in all those descriptions, "one-off", story scenarios, solo, etc, how can they make those promises when the game clearly isn't even finished? Totally selling you on an idea, a mood, AMAZING artwork (honestly, they should just do a graphic novel series and THEN the game while they're tooling/tweaking rules. They have enough art for 3 issues already it looks like). And they're also counting on the time lapse (anyone think this is shipping at any point in 2015?) to finish the game. Seems a lot of companies are building games from the top down instead of the ground up. And why is there any real fomo when these games don't ship for 18 months to 2 years anyway? Game looks great, probably goes over like cotton candy as it exists now. I wonder if these game companies have any nice timeshare properties they could sell us?
The BG RUclips/influencer/review space has gotten just as bad as video games. They are all too scared to say don’t buy this game, because then they won’t get sent prototypes, review copies, asked to do paid content etc. They are quick to promote the positives but use softer language when talking about the negatives as they try to sound objective.
Thanks for the video. Sometimes I feel you are asking a bit much from the developers in a crowdfunding environment. Sure, we all use crowdfunding as "preorder" but the true intent is to fund a venture from concept to development. I am ok with some uncertainty and some TBD elements. There is risk involved; it worked great for me with ATO, not so well with some others. But expecting a fully fleshed out rule book and mechanics is just wanting this to be a preorder sale vs. a true "fund the development of an idea." There is a place for both approaches from developers with crowdfunding and we just need to accept the risks involved.
When developing a game there have to be prototypes. That's the only way to see if concepts work (proof of concept phase) - so it should be possible to show how the game is gonna be played. The game mechanics should be already fleshed out at this point.
For Grimcoven, this is typical AW. You are funding a concept not a campaign. They are all about the campaign and less about the game. If it is great, I will wait for the reprint.
On Grimcoven, note that the standee version will not have the double-layer boards. The only way to get those is to back the deluxe version with the minis. IMO, the deluxe version is the much better buy. The standee version will be available at retail.
Which is exactly how they sucker you in. You want the better stuff? Well guess what it comes with miniatures now and that’s how these shady practices have been slipping through the holes.
I was excited for Grimcoven, but you’re review as well as a few others has me cooled. No rule book and the fact it’s not even semi fleshed out has me worried.
Alex from Boardgameco WORKS FOR AWAKEN REALMS. He's isn't someone we want a review from. I want people who DON'T work for the company to review the game.
I’m so glad others are saying this! I’ve mentioned it in the past and it needs to be said more. He praised Rove and had me backed on it til Liege said NO, and it saved me so much money!
@@distortedsteeve2980 He will praise anything from a medium to large publisher. It's all a business to him. Several of the big names in youtube boardgames (BGC and Quack) are in it for the money only and also back war crimes.
He doesn’t just work for them in a random role, he is their CHIEF MARKETING OFFICER!! He’s done comparison videos between gamefound and kickstarter and regularly pushes gamefound projects. His coverage of a terrible looking god of war game was unbelievable biased. It is absolutely insidious.
I totally get what you’re saying and overall I agree with your message. That said, he doesn’t work for AR, he works for Gamefound. Yes there’s crossover. No, it’s not the same thing.
Backing all the wave 2 7th Citadel stuff. (went all in on the first lot of stuff and really love it. I recommend Final Throne if you just want the core + something small)
I have MB Pantheon and Ragnarok. Most of the content for both. Skirmish games are amongst my favourites, and I play things like Grimdark Future Firefight regularly. As such, I enjoy army building and am also a painter. Having too much Mythic Battles isn't something that occurs to me.
So, I dived deep into Pillars of Heracles and watched a gameplay video that had a full rules teach. Combined with the streamlining of the rules the designer has planned (confirmed by some replies in the campaign comments section + BGG), this game is actually going to be fairly straightforward as a mid-weight game with FANTASTIC gameplay. I think it has a lot of potential and the production value is quite nice (beautiful art, beautiful graphic design). This one feels underrated, imo, and I think it'll surprise once it gets into backers' hands.
The theme of Grimcoven is on point, it's disappointing that it turned out this way. It's like they tried to reverse engineer Cthulhu death may die and failed.
Rant rant rant, love it! Never change! Totally agree with you about Grimcoven, the overkill of ‘playthrough videos’ with no opinion (other than Alex) has actually put me off it. I love a good crowdfunder but they really don’t seem to have much of a product and trying to sell a rough idea??? Too many good boardgames around to risk that much £££ on such an unknown…
In terms of reviewers giving me opinions, I prefer they didn't. I prefer they let me see the gameplay. Let me decide by seeing for myself if I would like it. If I get a reviewer giving me an opinion without gameplay video, it's worthless. I want to form my own opinion. It's like those reviews for every new Star Wars or marvel movie. All the opinions are telling me it sucks but I watch it and I enjoy it.
Mythic battles is a great game if you have the right game group and I love it. However… one season is totally enough in content (and shelf space!), therefore although I love it, Season 1 was more than enough for me 👍
30:27 Pickup-and-Deliver game - may I add?! Also, one of 2 games I know of (the other being the severely underrated Uwe game Merkator), in which you can choose to tag along with other players to make deliveries!
I am so tired of campaign games. Even if they’re campaigns with other legitimate one shot modes, I am so burned out on them. So much so that I’ve passed on games I 100% would have backed in years past (Degenesis, Grimcoven). I just counted, I have 13 unfinished campaign games in my collection 🙈
0:30 Well, Chris... I can't say that I am surprised that there is no rulebook... It is an Awaken Realms campaign - and for their last game which I was considering - Dragon Eclipse - they did come with a rulebook, either.
14:30 That’s because usually during AR campaigns, they hold off and end up revealing something on the last day and reveal an All-In pledge - which is even more money, obviously.
So if they are advertising this to be “Season 2” content for 7th Citadel, are they implying that there will be more - future seasons? I just caught on to that reference.
Fluffy Dragons seems like such a great game for my kids. There is no text, which is great since they can’t read or understand english. The rules are simple with plenty of player interaction and the theme is cute and kids friendly. Everything I could need from a game for my kids.
I’ve learned that I can pass on an unfinished game with no reviews that I am not sure about. It takes a lot of self control, but if it comes out and is amazing there will almost always be a second campaign. I have plenty of other games to play so the delay doesn’t really matter. Sure, you may miss out on the occasional hot game, but it will save you a lot of money in the end. I’m using this strategy for Dune from CMON. Passed initially, released to amazing reviews, will back on the upcoming campaign.
Chris, people just have been asked to squeeze out a couple hundreds of dinero, do not smoke with righteous anger. A company of good Catholics want to sell some stuff to the others…😊
All the actions are just blocking for what gear / companions / etc. that you have. They are all mechanically basically the same in terms of rules, just how what Skill cards / Gear / companions / etc. can help or not.
@@siriactuallysara they are maybe the most boring minis ive ever seen in a game - zero personality - i really wonder why they went that route with them - i guess it had to be because of cost but dam -
7th Citadel is great. While most expansions are an easy skip (I have and like them, but they ARE an easy skip), I'd highly recommend the Final Throne expansion. An extra threat is a lot - it adds a whole area too.
Watch Shelfside review for Grimcoven! Lot of potential (he said it’s a tentative 5/10 as it is now, but could climb to be a 9/10) but yeah expected more even at the prototype stage. It’s an hour and a half of goodness.
Essentially it’s hard at first, you kill the elite and then it’s a cakewalk when it’s just the boss and minions. Especially with the portals that let you kite the boss so much.
Correction, he said tentative 6/10. It was a very good video.
ruclips.net/video/7QWQB0fZxAA/видео.html
@@stianhaugen4016 well, 5/10 that jumped to 6/10 just because he’s a sucker for their minis and quality (in a good way). Either way, I’m not going all in on a 5 or 6. But yes, he did change it to 6.
It is an excellent and well thought out review. I am very much on the fence about the campaign now after seeing it. Awaken Realms may be able to fix the issues but that is not a guarantee (look at games like Etherfields and Tamashii which both have significant issues with their final versions)
Seems Awaken Realms is all form and no function with m,any of their designs.
Man, I do not understand your attitude. Gamefound and Kickstarter are full of absolutely garbage games. There are no rulebooks in every case and even if there is, they always say these rules can be change to the final version.
I do not see, what is your problem with Personal stories. For example Nemesis was not a campaign game and it totally worked, but it also had few campaign expansion. Anyway, stretch goals gives you a ton of boss battling extra and replayability, that you missed so much.
I have watched about 10 videos from 19 you mentioned and it is true, the game is not perfect, it has small mistakes/imperfections and I hope they manage to correct it to the final version, but why you so negative? I think it is big, trustworthy company, the value/price ratio is good, the art and component quality is excellent. If you dont like the mechanics of the game it is OK, this game is not for everyone, but than what was your purpose with this video? You did not give us any new information, you told only your fears and personal opinions about gamefound campaign page. The problem with opinions, that most people have it, but we usually shit on them.
Grimcoven looks like some kind of experiment to me. AI art (not just the few pictures that started the shitstorm) was the first red flag. If they are willing to take shortcuts there, why would they not try this with the rules and other design choices too? to me it looks like a test to see how much they can get away with. Not saying the game couldnt be good, but from what I see I am not sold at all and there simply isnt enough information about the game for me to risk spending my money on this.
I had ai create an entire board game from the ground up. Rules and everything. So it’s possible Grim was too.
Great work as always
Shelfside has a wonderful Grimcoven review
Their review is really good!
I love the typo in the Grimcoven ("Grimcvoen") in the Story Scenarios box. They have a million bucks in pledges in a few hours but no one caught that? And in all those descriptions, "one-off", story scenarios, solo, etc, how can they make those promises when the game clearly isn't even finished? Totally selling you on an idea, a mood, AMAZING artwork (honestly, they should just do a graphic novel series and THEN the game while they're tooling/tweaking rules. They have enough art for 3 issues already it looks like). And they're also counting on the time lapse (anyone think this is shipping at any point in 2015?) to finish the game. Seems a lot of companies are building games from the top down instead of the ground up. And why is there any real fomo when these games don't ship for 18 months to 2 years anyway? Game looks great, probably goes over like cotton candy as it exists now. I wonder if these game companies have any nice timeshare properties they could sell us?
I was thinking of backing grimcoven as my first boss battler, but the fishy framework and wrong anatomy of the characters really put this out for me.
The BG RUclips/influencer/review space has gotten just as bad as video games. They are all too scared to say don’t buy this game, because then they won’t get sent prototypes, review copies, asked to do paid content etc. They are quick to promote the positives but use softer language when talking about the negatives as they try to sound objective.
Thanks for the video. Sometimes I feel you are asking a bit much from the developers in a crowdfunding environment. Sure, we all use crowdfunding as "preorder" but the true intent is to fund a venture from concept to development. I am ok with some uncertainty and some TBD elements. There is risk involved; it worked great for me with ATO, not so well with some others. But expecting a fully fleshed out rule book and mechanics is just wanting this to be a preorder sale vs. a true "fund the development of an idea." There is a place for both approaches from developers with crowdfunding and we just need to accept the risks involved.
Completely agree. If you want fully made complete games buy retail.
When developing a game there have to be prototypes. That's the only way to see if concepts work (proof of concept phase) - so it should be possible to show how the game is gonna be played. The game mechanics should be already fleshed out at this point.
I back so many AR things. Passing on Grimcoven. Looks too undercooked.
For Grimcoven, this is typical AW. You are funding a concept not a campaign. They are all about the campaign and less about the game. If it is great, I will wait for the reprint.
No rule book, no back! I find it disingenuous if you launch a campaign without it. How do backers even know what they are getting?
On Grimcoven, note that the standee version will not have the double-layer boards. The only way to get those is to back the deluxe version with the minis. IMO, the deluxe version is the much better buy. The standee version will be available at retail.
Which is exactly how they sucker you in. You want the better stuff? Well guess what it comes with miniatures now and that’s how these shady practices have been slipping through the holes.
I was excited for Grimcoven, but you’re review as well as a few others has me cooled. No rule book and the fact it’s not even semi fleshed out has me worried.
Alex from Boardgameco WORKS FOR AWAKEN REALMS. He's isn't someone we want a review from. I want people who DON'T work for the company to review the game.
I’m so glad others are saying this! I’ve mentioned it in the past and it needs to be said more. He praised Rove and had me backed on it til Liege said NO, and it saved me so much money!
@@distortedsteeve2980 He will praise anything from a medium to large publisher. It's all a business to him. Several of the big names in youtube boardgames (BGC and Quack) are in it for the money only and also back war crimes.
He doesn’t just work for them in a random role, he is their CHIEF MARKETING OFFICER!!
He’s done comparison videos between gamefound and kickstarter and regularly pushes gamefound projects. His coverage of a terrible looking god of war game was unbelievable biased.
It is absolutely insidious.
@@SamS-cb5ep I wouldn’t call it “insidious”. He is always very up front and says multiple times that he works for them. He doesn’t try and hide it.
I totally get what you’re saying and overall I agree with your message.
That said, he doesn’t work for AR, he works for Gamefound. Yes there’s crossover. No, it’s not the same thing.
Backing all the wave 2 7th Citadel stuff. (went all in on the first lot of stuff and really love it. I recommend Final Throne if you just want the core + something small)
Getting the impression no one here watched my grimcoven video 😅
Should check shelf side
Best reviewers out there
I have MB Pantheon and Ragnarok. Most of the content for both. Skirmish games are amongst my favourites, and I play things like Grimdark Future Firefight regularly. As such, I enjoy army building and am also a painter. Having too much Mythic Battles isn't something that occurs to me.
48:30 I do know about Jenga - where if the tower falls on your turn when you are pulling the block, you lose.
So, I dived deep into Pillars of Heracles and watched a gameplay video that had a full rules teach. Combined with the streamlining of the rules the designer has planned (confirmed by some replies in the campaign comments section + BGG), this game is actually going to be fairly straightforward as a mid-weight game with FANTASTIC gameplay. I think it has a lot of potential and the production value is quite nice (beautiful art, beautiful graphic design). This one feels underrated, imo, and I think it'll surprise once it gets into backers' hands.
For me, Grimcoven special eidition 100$ for all those models including strech goal is already very justifiable to me.
The theme of Grimcoven is on point, it's disappointing that it turned out this way. It's like they tried to reverse engineer Cthulhu death may die and failed.
Is grimcoven still being produced as a sub contracted project from AR?
Rant rant rant, love it! Never change!
Totally agree with you about Grimcoven, the overkill of ‘playthrough videos’ with no opinion (other than Alex) has actually put me off it. I love a good crowdfunder but they really don’t seem to have much of a product and trying to sell a rough idea??? Too many good boardgames around to risk that much £££ on such an unknown…
In terms of reviewers giving me opinions, I prefer they didn't. I prefer they let me see the gameplay. Let me decide by seeing for myself if I would like it. If I get a reviewer giving me an opinion without gameplay video, it's worthless. I want to form my own opinion. It's like those reviews for every new Star Wars or marvel movie. All the opinions are telling me it sucks but I watch it and I enjoy it.
Mythic battles is a great game if you have the right game group and I love it. However… one season is totally enough in content (and shelf space!), therefore although I love it, Season 1 was more than enough for me 👍
30:27 Pickup-and-Deliver game - may I add?!
Also, one of 2 games I know of (the other being the severely underrated Uwe game Merkator), in which you can choose to tag along with other players to make deliveries!
I am so tired of campaign games. Even if they’re campaigns with other legitimate one shot modes, I am so burned out on them. So much so that I’ve passed on games I 100% would have backed in years past (Degenesis, Grimcoven).
I just counted, I have 13 unfinished campaign games in my collection 🙈
0:30 Well, Chris... I can't say that I am surprised that there is no rulebook... It is an Awaken Realms campaign - and for their last game which I was considering - Dragon Eclipse - they did come with a rulebook, either.
14:30 That’s because usually during AR campaigns, they hold off and end up revealing something on the last day and reveal an All-In pledge - which is even more money, obviously.
where is my timestamps 😢
So if they are advertising this to be “Season 2” content for 7th Citadel, are they implying that there will be more - future seasons? I just caught on to that reference.
Fluffy Dragons seems like such a great game for my kids. There is no text, which is great since they can’t read or understand english. The rules are simple with plenty of player interaction and the theme is cute and kids friendly. Everything I could need from a game for my kids.
I’ve learned that I can pass on an unfinished game with no reviews that I am not sure about. It takes a lot
of self control, but if it comes out and is amazing there will almost always be a second campaign. I have plenty of other games to play so the delay doesn’t really matter. Sure, you may miss out on the occasional hot game, but it will save you a lot of money in the end. I’m using this strategy for Dune from CMON. Passed initially, released to amazing reviews, will back on the upcoming campaign.
47:00 I think we should back this - just so we can tell our friends that we bought a board game table - and then show it off to them! 😉
From what I have personally seen, it’s a standee version for sure! My own take !👍
19:40 How is 7th Citadel as a solo game? Thanks.
Chris, people just have been asked to squeeze out a couple hundreds of dinero, do not smoke with righteous anger. A company of good Catholics want to sell some stuff to the others…😊
Good Catholics? Why, because they are Polish?
33:01 It’s AG-AH-MO-NI-AH
31:49 Rumor has it!!!! 😉
All the actions are just blocking for what gear / companions / etc. that you have. They are all mechanically basically the same in terms of rules, just how what Skill cards / Gear / companions / etc. can help or not.
20:45 Yes, #TeamMeeple
Personal Stories is what they did for ISS and was very popular, its just a little addon noones forcing you to buy but a great addition tbh.
No wastelandia coverage? Bummer, especially when the creator has done an amazing job with the game.
Are you the creator?
@@rawkyle9385 no, a guy named Drew is the creator, it’s up on kickstarter now!
@@rawkyle9385LOL 😆 😂 🤣 😄
@@rawkyle9385LOL
I have 7th citadel and recommend it. If you don’t have it yet back it.
The base pledge has a LOT of content. You don’t need the expansions.
FYI the minis are tiny and suck in 7th citadel. Skip them.
@@siriactuallysara they are maybe the most boring minis ive ever seen in a game - zero personality - i really wonder why they went that route with them - i guess it had to be because of cost but dam -
I hated 7th Continent, ill pass on Citadel, just didnt like it at all for some reason.
7th Citadel is great. While most expansions are an easy skip (I have and like them, but they ARE an easy skip), I'd highly recommend the Final Throne expansion. An extra threat is a lot - it adds a whole area too.
It’s more of the same. If you didn’t like 7th Continent, you won’t like 7th Citadel.
0:02🤣
I always enjoy your videos 😊