With applying the prusick as shown (below the device) it’s like an automatic brake, while also acting as a safety line. I love it. Simple & old school, but also very effective. 👍👍🇺🇸😁
My question is why does the diameter of the pursik rope look like it’s the same as the main line? Otherwise I’ve knot😋 seen this method before and I really like it! Thanks for sharing. 😎🇦🇺
By far the best controlled rappel method i have seen yet. Love the setup other than your harness has a metal main attachment point with a carabiner. I am all about no metal-on-metal contact but i see it all the time . At some point you are going to have metal on metal such as when using auto braking / capture devices. Great video.
Not a big fan of metal on metal either but have been told it’s fine unless it’s aluminum on steel because the steel will eventually wear down the aluminum.
What length lanyard are you using to connect into the figure 8? Second question, when would you use the back-up knot above the Figure 8 and how would you attach it? To the figure 8 or a long runner to your belt?
KRCILEK the knot below is called a prussic. It's a tension knot that will hold your weight. It's used as an easy safety, because if you fall and the knot tightens, it will catch you. You can also use it to hang safely and be able to use both hands (unlike the figure 8, which requires one hand at all times. It can also be used to climb up ropes. I'd personally attach it to a second carabiner because ideally you'd want that as far away from the figure 8 as possible in case the figure 8 or what's holding it breaks.
@@Turbopress2882 in the case that the figure 8 or biner that holds the figure 8 , does break . Would the prussic be able to hold up ? is it realy that strong?
Matthew Aragones a lot of it depends on what the prussic is made out of, and how long it is from your harness to the actual knot. If it is made of a cheap or weak material, and if there is a lot of slack and you fall, it may snap. But I think 550 cord will be strong enough. Especially if you make it shorter so if you do fall there isn't as much force on the knot.
@@Turbopress2882 Good points. A couple reasons i wouldn't use paracord : it's soft, would cinch hard and be difficult to break its grip. More importantly, it's thin, and with the rope on rope friction, it could wear through very easily, and snap and fail you during use. Another thing is, the more taught a rope is , the more easily it could break if just slashed or abraded even lightly, if it's a light and thin line. Prusik cord is much more dense, more material to endure abuse.
Is there a way to use this one-handed? He's talking about releasing and doing stuff with your free hand, but then he's got one hand on the line and one on the 3rd hand... what am I missing?
Yes it can be one handed, just release the autoblock and it will lock out for you. Still not recommended with a super 8 with a single line rappel but perfectly doable.
Of course you can. But a normal figure 8 can allow the loop to lift over the ring and girth hitch the rope, rigidly stopping progress until you can unweight the device. This would be disastrous in a tactical descent.
You can use a ropeman to escape a system and as a progress capture device, but you should never backup a rappel with one... or any toothed device for that matter. The purpose of the prusik is a second hand- if you become incapacitated it will automatically lock off. The only way you could rappel with a ropeman would be to hold it open. This would mean if you became incapacitated and let your break hand go on the rapp, you would fall a considerable distance to when/if the device snapped close. This is a toothed device, which you NEVER want to shock load on a rope and that is exactly what would happen here. Best case scenario you slightly damage the sheath of your rope, worst case scenario, yer gonna die.
From a tactical point of view is there a reason to not use say a Gri Gri or Stop where you can absolutely fang it down the rope and also ensure an automatic locking function? Obviously certain devices are better than others so no IDs or Sparrows
If you repel on a knotted/joined rope the knot will got through the hole in the figure 8 and you don't have to stop, a major advantage in tactical + they don't break.
@@wilfdarr There's no other descender that you don't have to stop and detach from the rope to pass a knot, stuffing the knot through the hole is a convenience not to be underestimated... especially if you're being shot at... The petzl approved single/flat overhand is hard to beat, simple to tie and check, the least likely to snag when retrieving the rope. Butterfly bend is harder to tie and check, possible to get wrong and still appear ok at a glance. zeppelin bend is great but hard to recommend for the same reasons as the butterfly bend. DO NOT use the flat overhand figure 8!!!
Your gates are supposed to opposite each other so they don't work each loose from the back and forth movements,One up other down. Otherwise the rest of the set looks pretty good.
LOL, that's not how things work. Go back to the basics. If you have two devices connected to the SAME device point, it is nice to have them opposite and opposed so that the gates provide a mechanical protection from both being undone in the same action, but there are a limited number of situations where that is actually needed.
@@mr.bigcommonsense3089 Old school is metal to fabric without exception, modern materials and designs have superseded this thinking. This is a purpose built harness intended for biners to be attached to the hardware.
If it was only one and it was unlocked ya, but with two, frankly they could both be unlocked (wire biners have no locking mechanism): the chances of both biners simultaneously opening in an unloaded state and then having the contents spew forth is nonexistent. If I was investigating a fall under those conditions I'd suspect murder or suicide before that level of bad luck!
Ернунда какая-то. Если для спецопераций то там одной рукой спускаются, второй оружие держат. А тут обе руки заняты на спуск. В таком случае, проще спусковое устройство автоматическое использовать, чем все эти пляски с пруссиком.
I am the guy who put deslike Don't put the pursik knot under the device because the sudden move make the knot reach the device and the pressure upper the knot by device make the knot slip
Its fine as long as you extend the rappel device enough so that it doesn't interfere with the autoblock. One issue with putting the autoblock above an extended rappel is that it can get out of your reach of it should catch you, essentially hanging you there until you're able to ascend the rope and pull it back down. Autoblock below the rappel device if the rappel device is extended, or autoblock above the rappel device if the rappel device is not extended is usually my go to. There's more than one correct way!
@@Jh0ac new to rope work. so you can essentially choose to extend or not extend the figure 8/rappel device . Meaning,clip it on a biner directly? assuming i got that right , the decisions would be like this: Rappel Device > directly to biner = autoblock above Rappel Device + Extension , > biner = Autoblock below is that correct?
Id say yes. Without the extension , there would not be enough space to use a prussic knot behind it. But the decision is because the figure 8 in descent requires you to use the right hand to provide the tension or controlled release of the line. Full stop of line feed stops you on a fig 8. But you do have to apply some pressure. In essence, the use of the prussic in the below position is giving him a third hand that does nothing except guide his rope and apply just enough stop pressure to the line. The figure 8 is doing most of the stopping. If you do the autoblock above, the prussic would be doing most (if not all the work) the moment you let go with your right hand.
As long as the prusiks cannot reach the figure 8 or ATC or whatever you are using off of the extension, it really shouldn't be a problem. Although it might be advantageous to attach to the leg loop as it will keep you more upright when the prusiks catches.
My daughters don't own a playstation. However, they do know how to rappel down the side of a cliff, mountainbike the red routes, survive in the hills and have recently been introduced to skydiving. The world is a playground, and it's bigger than a TV screen!
@@brerrabbit4265 the damage has already been done. If an 11 yo cannot entertain themselves without the use of expensive technology, then the spoil has already set in. A price has already been established by the kid, 25$ a day to make his life worth living.
With applying the prusick as shown (below the device) it’s like an automatic brake, while also acting as a safety line. I love it. Simple & old school, but also very effective. 👍👍🇺🇸😁
yes, but with clean rope. And youcan just stop with "horns" on 8
Thank you, at my age it's good to learn something useful. Go's to show your never to old to learn.
thats a great set up I will be using it for tree work on my decent.
That is really nice! It will greatly serve me good. TKS for sharing!
saludos hello excelente descenso rapel Autoasegurado con un cordino y un prussik saludos from Venezuela god bless
My question is why does the diameter of the pursik rope look like it’s the same as the main line? Otherwise I’ve knot😋 seen this method before and I really like it! Thanks for sharing. 😎🇦🇺
That's a great setup.
Great idea. I learned something from this.
Genius
Very cool
What type of rope your are using for friction knots?
Coming from a climber... what makes this a "tactical" rappel? Like this is just a standard rappel with an extension setup...
Just the intended applications, rope work is rope work.
How do you increase the value of a combat smock? Call it a SAS smock! It's still a smock, but sounds better.
yeah, the tactical I've seen, has no harness, just a swiss seat. no rappel device, just a carabiner and no backup prusik
He is wearing combat colours duh
Tactical and modular! 😉
By far the best controlled rappel method i have seen yet. Love the setup other than your harness has a metal main attachment point with a carabiner. I am all about no metal-on-metal contact but i see it all the time . At some point you are going to have metal on metal such as when using auto braking / capture devices. Great video.
Not a big fan of metal on metal either but have been told it’s fine unless it’s aluminum on steel because the steel will eventually wear down the aluminum.
What about apposing carabiners on your harness..??
Thank you😸
Very usfull information for the grappling
What length lanyard are you using to connect into the figure 8? Second question, when would you use the back-up knot above the Figure 8 and how would you attach it? To the figure 8 or a long runner to your belt?
KRCILEK the knot below is called a prussic. It's a tension knot that will hold your weight. It's used as an easy safety, because if you fall and the knot tightens, it will catch you. You can also use it to hang safely and be able to use both hands (unlike the figure 8, which requires one hand at all times. It can also be used to climb up ropes. I'd personally attach it to a second carabiner because ideally you'd want that as far away from the figure 8 as possible in case the figure 8 or what's holding it breaks.
@@Turbopress2882 in the case that the figure 8 or biner that holds the figure 8 , does break . Would the prussic be able to hold up ? is it realy that strong?
Matthew Aragones a lot of it depends on what the prussic is made out of, and how long it is from your harness to the actual knot. If it is made of a cheap or weak material, and if there is a lot of slack and you fall, it may snap. But I think 550 cord will be strong enough. Especially if you make it shorter so if you do fall there isn't as much force on the knot.
@@Turbopress2882 Good points. A couple reasons i wouldn't use paracord : it's soft, would cinch hard and be difficult to break its grip. More importantly, it's thin, and with the rope on rope friction, it could wear through very easily, and snap and fail you during use. Another thing is, the more taught a rope is , the more easily it could break if just slashed or abraded even lightly, if it's a light and thin line. Prusik cord is much more dense, more material to endure abuse.
you can't use prussik above eight because you would be blocked in case of a fall
Why cut the video short, let us see it all! It doesn't cost you any more to upload the whole dam thing!
Теперь я знаю с кого червяков из "мэн ин блэк" срисовывали)
Is there a way to use this one-handed? He's talking about releasing and doing stuff with your free hand, but then he's got one hand on the line and one on the 3rd hand... what am I missing?
Yes it can be one handed, just release the autoblock and it will lock out for you. Still not recommended with a super 8 with a single line rappel but perfectly doable.
Can you use a normal 8 without the flanges?
Of course you can. But a normal figure 8 can allow the loop to lift over the ring and girth hitch the rope, rigidly stopping progress until you can unweight the device. This would be disastrous in a tactical descent.
@@EightiesTV Is that what happened to the SAS guy in the movie 6 days?
Can you use a rope man instead of the prusik
You can use a ropeman to escape a system and as a progress capture device, but you should never backup a rappel with one... or any toothed device for that matter. The purpose of the prusik is a second hand- if you become incapacitated it will automatically lock off. The only way you could rappel with a ropeman would be to hold it open. This would mean if you became incapacitated and let your break hand go on the rapp, you would fall a considerable distance to when/if the device snapped close. This is a toothed device, which you NEVER want to shock load on a rope and that is exactly what would happen here. Best case scenario you slightly damage the sheath of your rope, worst case scenario, yer gonna die.
🤯
Try a Valdotain tresse
Diameter of the prussik looks the same as the rap rope. From what i understand, this is not safe practice.
From a tactical point of view is there a reason to not use say a Gri Gri or Stop where you can absolutely fang it down the rope and also ensure an automatic locking function?
Obviously certain devices are better than others so no IDs or Sparrows
Dirt and shite…
If you repel on a knotted/joined rope the knot will got through the hole in the figure 8 and you don't have to stop, a major advantage in tactical + they don't break.
@@martynwatson4929 cheers
@@martynwatson4929 I never thought of that. Which knot would you use for the least trouble?
@@wilfdarr There's no other descender that you don't have to stop and detach from the rope to pass a knot, stuffing the knot through the hole is a convenience not to be underestimated... especially if you're being shot at...
The petzl approved single/flat overhand is hard to beat, simple to tie and check, the least likely to snag when retrieving the rope.
Butterfly bend is harder to tie and check, possible to get wrong and still appear ok at a glance. zeppelin bend is great but hard to recommend for the same reasons as the butterfly bend.
DO NOT use the flat overhand figure 8!!!
Your gates are supposed to opposite each other so they don't work each loose from the back and forth movements,One up other down. Otherwise the rest of the set looks pretty good.
LOL, that's not how things work. Go back to the basics. If you have two devices connected to the SAME device point, it is nice to have them opposite and opposed so that the gates provide a mechanical protection from both being undone in the same action, but there are a limited number of situations where that is actually needed.
The carabiners are locking so no need in this case.
Locking gates are fun this way. It also keeps the brake hand clear of interference.
Koryen oryen
Burnt on skin past due
metal on metal?
1:50
Am i the only one, who gets nervous, seeing the second biner is not locked?
more the metal to metal biner to d ring I dont understand
@@mr.bigcommonsense3089 Old school is metal to fabric without exception, modern materials and designs have superseded this thinking. This is a purpose built harness intended for biners to be attached to the hardware.
@@africansinclair understood mate ,thanks for pointing this up...
If it was only one and it was unlocked ya, but with two, frankly they could both be unlocked (wire biners have no locking mechanism): the chances of both biners simultaneously opening in an unloaded state and then having the contents spew forth is nonexistent. If I was investigating a fall under those conditions I'd suspect murder or suicide before that level of bad luck!
What's all?! Petzl STOP... No, don't heard about
Ернунда какая-то. Если для спецопераций то там одной рукой спускаются, второй оружие держат. А тут обе руки заняты на спуск. В таком случае, проще спусковое устройство автоматическое использовать, чем все эти пляски с пруссиком.
your backup is wrong.
Quote “ shoot people” 😮
I am the guy who put deslike
Don't put the pursik knot under the device because the sudden move make the knot reach the device and the pressure upper the knot by device make the knot slip
Its fine as long as you extend the rappel device enough so that it doesn't interfere with the autoblock. One issue with putting the autoblock above an extended rappel is that it can get out of your reach of it should catch you, essentially hanging you there until you're able to ascend the rope and pull it back down. Autoblock below the rappel device if the rappel device is extended, or autoblock above the rappel device if the rappel device is not extended is usually my go to. There's more than one correct way!
Jh0ac I agree with most of what you say, however since when is a figure 8 an autoblock!?
@@jacksbackable figure 8 is the rappel device. Autoblock is a friction knot such as a prussic or klemheist.
@@Jh0ac new to rope work. so you can essentially choose to extend or not extend the figure 8/rappel device . Meaning,clip it on a biner directly?
assuming i got that right , the decisions would be like this:
Rappel Device > directly to biner = autoblock above
Rappel Device + Extension , > biner = Autoblock below
is that correct?
Id say yes. Without the extension , there would not be enough space to use a prussic knot behind it. But the decision is because the figure 8 in descent requires you to use the right hand to provide the tension or controlled release of the line. Full stop of line feed stops you on a fig 8. But you do have to apply some pressure. In essence, the use of the prussic in the below position is giving him a third hand that does nothing except guide his rope and apply just enough stop pressure to the line. The figure 8 is doing most of the stopping. If you do the autoblock above, the prussic would be doing most (if not all the work) the moment you let go with your right hand.
the prussik has to stay in the leg loop
better extend the belay device and clip the prusik on the belay loop
As long as the prusiks cannot reach the figure 8 or ATC or whatever you are using off of the extension, it really shouldn't be a problem. Although it might be advantageous to attach to the leg loop as it will keep you more upright when the prusiks catches.
I'm 11 and my parents take away my PS4 for being on it all day, yet won't spend £25 for me to be outside everyday, I fucking hate my life.
You have no life on a PS4 all day, which means you have no future.
My daughters don't own a playstation. However, they do know how to rappel down the side of a cliff, mountainbike the red routes, survive in the hills and have recently been introduced to skydiving. The world is a playground, and it's bigger than a TV screen!
@@africansinclair The kid is 11 and doesnt have parents that spoil him rotten. Most things that are fun cost $$$$ is what he is saying.
@@brerrabbit4265 the damage has already been done. If an 11 yo cannot entertain themselves without the use of expensive technology, then the spoil has already set in. A price has already been established by the kid, 25$ a day to make his life worth living.
Why does it cost 25 bucks to be outside? Do you have to bribe the doorman to let you out?
Sketchy as fuk