The Unofficial Gilded Age After Show - Episode 1
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2024
- On the first episode of The Unofficial Gilded Age After Show, Amanda Gillen, Melanie Groves and Kelsie Paul chat about the first episode of The Gilded Age, “Never the New” and unpack everything from who’s who in the first episode to the realities and challenges of being a woman in the late 19th century. #GildedAgeHBO
As a black woman in finance just wanted to point out that black women often had to work! Our work supplemented black men low wages or sometimes the inability to get employment in general. So Peggy working may be speaking to that. Just finished self made madam cj Walker biography. Which speaks to this plight of the black women during this time.
That's a really fantastic point and is something to consider when examining Peggy as a character-- thank you for sharing and for the book recommendation!
@@frickpittsburgh Peggy most certainly comes from money and was raised in a wealthy household. I think she is choosing to work but its obvious she doesnt have to. There were a few black millionaires in NY around this time so it will be interesting who her father is based off of.
Yes and Black women have managed to climb the ladder in corporations more than black men. Women are not threatening.
I wonder that white men in the USA actually FEAR black men. They compete and are threatened by black men.
@@prettynerd4779 Or her mother. Weren't there African-American women who made fortunes in the beauty/haircare business?
@@cathryncampbell8555 Madam CJ walker in about 15 years but an unknown black millionaire was Jerimiah Hamilton. Jerimiah Hamilton was a multimillionaire during this time frame and would have known most of these men. Jerimiah was a Wall Street Trader ( only black trader) and he died as the richest black man in America in 1875. he owned vast amount of land and railroads so he would have certainly known Mr. Russell, if they wanted to at least mention him.
Hi, I’m the executive director of Lyndhurst, Jay Gould’s home. Thanks for talking about this history. Lyndhurst is one of the locations used for filming and will be heavily featured in episode three. Let me know if you’d like me to participate as a guest on your podcasts.
Thanks for watching! We'd love to have you on an episode!
My degree is in Architecture and my husband is a Professor at Parson’s in NYC. We often decry the loss of so very many architectural gems that have just been razed one after another, especially in Manhattan. I would love to know more about both the past and the current preservation laws.
In Edith Wharton’s “Age of Innocence”, the properties heading up towards Central Park are called “the wilderness”. Also takes place during this time and the code of acceptable female behavior is perfectly spelled out.
Thanks Tatiana. Wharton revealed. 🌹
I think of Edith Wharton through the whole show. I grew up in Carroll Gardens in the 50s 60s 70s, there was a book called Bricks and Brownstone, this gives me the feel of being in the houses the way the book described. I and my family and friends grew up in these homes. My uncle's house had a stairway within the house that went up the back of the house to the floors above from the cellar. .
I love 2 things the most in this, the lack of tall builds behind the brownstones. The women don't rely wear make up. Its so authentic.
Dropping names, Scirmerhorn and Lovington.
Two thoughts: 1) Old New York was based on who your family was, who you were married to (i.e. Phillips', Astor's, Dykeman's etc.) and when those families arrived (Mayflower, Revolution etc. 1800 was too late). Their money was treated more like the British. You didn't do manual labor or Trade. It was invested for a solid return of 4%. You could count on that. Spinster aunts were often provided with bare bones crumbs from wealthier relations (as we see). Their clothes could be threadbare but they were still invited to important events because of who they were related to, not how much money they had. 2) I have seen calling cards that specify the reason for the call on the back. Each corner would have a word like "condolence", "congratulations" or "Call." You folded that corner over so that the lady of the house, who might have missed you, would know what you were calling about.
Great point about the importance of family names-- you see that repeatedly within the show just in the way the different characters refer to each other. When Agnes explains who some of the society ladies are to Marian, she explains it in terms of how they are related to their family. When Bertha explains who the same society ladies are to George, she does it within the context of who their husbands are and whether or not those husbands have important jobs.
It's very funny; those same "rules of engagement" were also the same rules of (white ante-and post-bellum and comfortable free people of color) society. I grew up in a Southern house but in post-war LA, and I believed that every "nice" girl was happy with excitement to receive her first set of 'calling cards' which was proof one was grown enough to be a lady.....All at the time we spent our weekends at Malibu, something my grandmother just couldn't understand.
My first window into The Gilded Age was the 1990’s movie, The Age Of Innocence with Winona Ryder. The visuals in that movie are sumptuous. Whether it fits exactly with the era being discussed here or not. I’m not sure, but it inspired a love for me of old New York. A glamorous era.
This is so fun! Love the conversation. I have been to Newport. Make sure you go during the holiday season with the holiday decorations. It is such an incredible place. One home is grander than the next! The Breakers is the most over the top mansion you can imagine.
If you are a fan of the Newport Mansions, be sure to stay tuned for our episode in a couple of weeks. We'll be chatting all about Newport with a special guest!
I love you have this. I just watched all the HBO podcasts on all the episodes I've seen. HBO interviews the creators and the actors which gives a huge amount of depth. I am glad you are here because I still wanted more!! Thank you.
Thanks so much for watching!
I was a summer guide at the wonderful Breakers for three years. Looking forward to you your episode on Newport.
You all are delightful!
Yes!You HAVE to go to Newport! Experience it all and the beautiful Ocean Drive!
I had to chuckle at the mention that Stanford White has a connection to Pittsburgh, because after all it’s one that’s quite infamous and notorious. Interesting fact that I recently learned is that Stanford White, as low man at the firm, was the one sent off to Pennsylvania for a commission for a wealthy family in Cornwall, Pennsylvania. For them he built Alden Villa in 1881, so right when he would be building the fictional house for the Russells. Today the house has protected status, but remains abandoned and in need of extensive restoration and conservation. It adheres much more to an Eastlake or Aesthetic style, rather then the high Beaux Arts style of the supposed Russell house. Maybe this show will yet again boost interest in him and the Villa can parlay that into preservation interest and funds. There’s an interesting video on RUclips that gives a nice overview of the property.
He was also a sleeze- check out
Nesbett’s autobiography. She was underage ( show girl also)and her mother kind of pimped her out!
@@stephaniesharkey3538 Stanford White was shot to death by Harry K. Thaw, Evelyn Nesbett's husband On the rooftop of Madison Square Garden !!!!!
Groups have their own set of social contexts and cues. So it is very possible for a subtle cue to be evidently clear for the ingroup, while the outgroup remains oblivious. Even leaving her background aside; Bertha has a big challenge because she wants more than anything to belong to high society. But she doesn't have the social knowledge/tools that she needs to fit in. She only has very blunt brute force tools, which are not very effective. Basically, she wants to belong while at the same time, all her actions make it obvious that she does not. Her power won't be enough, she will also need to develop her social understanding and subtly. If she has both power and social understanding, her goals will become much more achievable.
Good point. That scene where the ladies refer to the new mansion is the Gilded Age version of Mean Girl’s Regina George complimenting the girl’s skirt then calling it the fugliest thing she’s ever seen, as soon as the girl turns her back. 😆
It will be really interesting to watch Bertha's social savvy develop over the course of the show. Right now she's still learning the rules of the game, but once she does it seems like she'll definitely be a force.
@@frickpittsburgh Well put :)
I am a big fan of Edith Wharton who revealed a lot of this age.
Stanford White concerns me when it comes to Gladies Russell. When I read about him and his death, I am wondering if any of that will make it into the show
Happy I found this channel! I’ve been searching for great reviews of this series and this was a recommendation!
Thanks for watching!
I love this show, and this conversation!! I can't wait for the new money to show old money what time it is!! Meanness is always there-moreso when you have money
Loved listening to this and just subscribed. Look forward to more!
Awesome! Thank you!
I hope you bring this back for season 2!
Your wish is our command! Episode 1 of Season 2 just went live.
I get the impression that the Russell’s are loosely based on Alva and Willy K Vanderbilt. Alva was most definitely NOT accepted into NY society and considered crass, low born etc. despite great wealth and a massive new mansion on 5th ave. She eventually made it but it was a rocky beginning. If she sells her daughter off to a duke, my suspicion will be confirmed 😉
Yes, Vanderbilt pulled a move like Mr Russell in episode 4. After the financial ruin of others that Vanderbilt manipulated - 3 men killed themselves.
Yes, the saying when Alva forced her daughter Consuelo to marry the Duke of Marlborough was that such a ruthless mother had to have a marble heart to go with her marble palace. When one considers Alva's manipulation of her daughter, it is ironic that Alva later became a feminist....
Absolutely loved this and just subscribed! 💗
Thanks!
Interesting review of the show. I haven’t had the chance to see it yet but now I’m going to make sure I do!
Newport was The Hamptons of the Gilded Age. Can we get a link to the virtual NY Mansion tours?
Thanks for the information. The Frick Museum in New York City is fabulous.
Been to Newport, and these homes are far from cottages lol. It’s a beautiful area
Question about Henry Clay Frick. Being born in 1849, it seemed too much of a coincidence that he could be named after the Senator from Kentucky for it not to be true. To be clear, HC Frick is not related to the Senator, just named after him. It's telling of his (HC Frick's) parents that they chose the Senator as inspiration for their son's name. The Senator was an ardent supporter of National rights and a strong national government and was known as "The Great Compromiser" owing to his political savvy and accomplishments while in office. Beyond the obvious name recognition and role he played in politics can anyone shed light on this choice of name? Is there something more specific? I suspect it would provide some insight into HC Frick's upbringing and formation of his value system. I know this seems tangential to the show, but I think knowing more could shed some light into the mentality of the gilded class. Thoughts?
That's a great question. As far as we're aware, there isn't specific documentation about the origin of Mr. Frick's name, but we checked with our friends at the Frick Art Reference Library and we do believe that he was named after Senator Henry Clay. You are correct that there is no family relation, but it was extremely common for children born in that period to be named after the senator. While Clay was not a family name prior to Mr. Frick, it did become a family name-- Mr. Frick named his home in Pittsburgh Clayton and Clay is a common middle name for Frick descendants starting with Mr. Frick's daughter, Helen Clay Frick.
Thank You! Newport was Mentioned in Downton Abby as well..... Never Understood! I Live in Southern CA, and Our New Port... Yea No!
There is a reality for Mrs. Russell who is obviously based on Alva Vanderbilt. Alva and her quest to build bigger and more elaborate, which spurred on her sister-in-law Alice Vanderbilt- basically financially broke the extremely wealthy Vanderbilt family. When the depression hit and before, the Vanderbilts were starting to sell because of the obscene spending of those two women and other younger members of the family. Whereas, the old money were able to sustain their life styles because they refused to compete with the new comers! In the end, the old timers won!
That's an interesting observation and it speaks to the long term costs (both literal and figurative) of those extreme displays of wealth. We'll see how it plays out for the Russels!
I know this is suppose to be loosely based on Alba but Alva family came from money and lineage. That is why she was able to navigate those spaces so well. With her background and the Vanderbilt’s money she was a force. The Bertha character has no social graces and hasn’t yet been able to pull off any of her functions. He know Alva first party on the scene drew over 1000 people. The Russells to me are not a good representation of the Vanderbilts.
@@tammybenaytv4631 "The Vanderbilts, as members of socialite New York through the copious amounts of money that the family had earned rather than inherited, represented a type of wealth that was abhorrent to Astor and her group. The Mrs. Astor found railroad money distasteful. For this reason, Astor was reluctant to call upon the Vanderbilt girls. In 1883, however, legend has it that Alva Vanderbilt had planned an elaborate costume ball for her housewarming, with entertainments given by young society figures, but at the last minute notified young Caroline Astor (Lina's youngest daughter) that she could not participate, because Astor had never formally called on Vanderbilt . . . " I think Fellows is definitely using Alva as a prototype for Bertha, especially since there will be a ball at the Russell home, and the entire Van Rhijn family will attend. I suspect that Mrs. Astor and her daughter will be there as well!
@@deb53 I 100% agree with everything you said. I just wanted to point it the nuances here. People like to say that the “Vanderbilts” made it in to the 400. But they had been rich for 2 generations before Alva arrived on the scene. Alva had the social graces and lineage to enter this scene. This Bertha character seems to have neither. Although we don’t know much of their background yet. But it was definitely a fact that Alva extended family was monied and had social standing for generations before she married a Vanderbilt.
@@tammybenaytv4631 Good point. Regardless of background women during that time period only rose as high as their husbands.
There where two Mrs Astor, sister inlaws who faught for the title of the Mrs Astor.
The lineage of Agnes is mentioned several times. She mentions her mother's family as Livingstons. One of the Livingstons, Philip, was a signer of the Declaration of Independence.
White designed the SECOND Madison Square Garden. The original was built in 1879, and the Stanford White version was built in 1890 on the same site.
I appreciate the adjective "Frickish" as a bowdlerization for less diplomatic terms one could use to describe ruthless business men like Russell
I'm subscriber 518!
Thank you 👋
Regarding the PSA on transporting artwork… would a mover in 1882 really have used archival gloves?
We were mostly kidding about the archival gloves, as archival materials and standards for art handling were developed fairly recently. The work gloves we see in the show are probably pretty accurate for the time. It’s likely that movers would be hired to move and display artwork, some of the things in our collection even have moving company stickers left on them from moves in the 1920s-1950s.
She is called The Mrs Astor because Astor had brother and all their wives were Mrs Astors.
Oh boy you guys are so bad, she plays this in the show but I haven’t any idea who she was in real life. Maybe research, just a suggestion.
C Thomas Fortune was also a real person
OK all good with your content but we need to know about your skin care regiment your skin is flawless!!
Did anyone else notice the color in some of the darker interior scenes were very dull, flat and pasty looking with patchy blacks in the darkest spots? I don't think it's my TV settings because it just seems to be this show. Other shows and other networks seem fine.
I didn’t notice, but I’ll be watching for it now!
Interesting podcast, but that vocal fry is distracting
Is she Caroline or Mary? I'm so confused. I thought Caroline was her daughter.
It's very easy to be confused because they were BOTH Caroline! Caroline Astor (Sr.) is usually referred to on the show as Mrs. Astor or The Mrs. Astor. Her daughter, also named Caroline, went by Carrie and is more often referred to by that name in the show.
Who the Frick were they?
Industrialist family who
were tied with Andrew
Carnegie in the coal/steel-
making industries. When
people like the Fricks acquired
vast wealth they moved their
immediate family to the
better neighborhoods
in the USA's east coast cities
(Boston, NYC, Philadelphia
Baltimore, etc.) where they
could mingle and make
marriage matches for their
children with others of
their socioeconomic rank.
The Frick's built their NYC
mansion on the site of
70th - 71st Street and
Fifth Avenue (facing
NYC's Central Park)
The home is now a
museum.
Just watch the age of Innocence, read Edith Wharton...any thing is better than this right now. The discussion of renting vs owning is 20th century vs 19th century...
Talk behavior, and how appauling these people are towards each other. Not something I would enjoy ... and glad I didn't live in NYC back then. Good acting, though for sure.
Back then all of society was
very stratified, at least in the
larger cities. Add the ethnic
and Black enclaves with their
own pecking orders and you
can see why people did not
mix very much, if at all, with
others outside of their
niche within the class system.
Women still suffer. Female home making still unpaid. Hugely disproportionate to men. See economist Hazel Henderson.
Ladies… I would kindly ask you to stop using “sort of” as your bridge…. You are doing it in every episode… it is very very distracting !
White women Can’t comment on the Black women experience of the past. Your struggle pains me. Get a Black person to educate you because this is all too new for all of you.