The Peggy story line ended up pulling in historian Erica Dunbar as a consultant and then executive producer. I've read her work so this is very exciting. Pretty sure the character is a combination of a few people but Ida immediately correlates to Chicago in my mind.
Another real parallel for Peggy could be Frances Ellen Watkins Harper. Although she was older (born 1825), she published poems, short stories, and serials in newspapers before finally publishing her novel Iola Leroy in 1892.
Thanks for this lovely discussion! I learned a lot and actually think HBO can make a spinoff series featuring the Scotts and the African-American elite in the gilded age. One thing I hoped you'd at least discuss is the Mr. Russell and Miss Turner scene..... It was sooo awkward. I really hope Miss Turner won't do anything sinister to Bertha in future episodes.
Another wonderful segment of your podcast! Along the way I heard that a book the Gilded Age consultant recommended is: Carla L. Peterson Black Gotham: A Family History of African Americans in Nineteenth-Century New York City. Thanks for your great podcast! (😊Former Breakers (Newport) guide here! )
During the Gilded Age, a male ancestor went to Yale, graduating from its law school, then later going into politics in Baltimore, where his home is now a historic house. Yes, he was a man of color.
That scene between Peggy and Marian on the streets of Brooklyn was powerful and a teaching moment for white women who seek sisterhood with black women. Never assume by default that you are 'better' than us or that we need saving. Don't assume that we believe in what you believe. Don't push your cross sectionality talking points. We are not your sidekicks that you dump your problems on without hearing our own. Just treat us as you would like to be treated.
"Would the Fricks have been in, or would they have been out?" ...Well, Mr. Frick was mentioned in the Episode. I am shocked you all missed that or didn't mention it. If I recall correctly, it was in the back half of the episode, and was mentioned along with Mr. Gould; which is a nice easter egg for your listeners after last week's guest from Lyndhurst.
The mention of Jay Gould was definitely a great easter egg-- though I believe it's J.P. Morgan that gets mentioned alongside Gould, not Mr. Frick. If Mr. Frick got a shoutout elsewhere in the episode, I completely missed it!
even though there have been alot of critics for this series- i believe it will be a turning point for historical dramas in the future to include more than one perspective of society and culture all existing in the same time and place.
I don't see why George should be blamed(publicly or otherwise) for Morris's demise. Morris was just as ruthless laughing all the way to the bank. He was just as ruthless(if not more) as George! Afterall George created that opportunity for all of them to create wealth for themselves. But the second he got the chance, Morris was ready to take George down and keep his money! George should not be blamed for saving his business!
Most of these blue bloods never had to contend with a self made man. George in relation to them is a barbarian fresh from the fight. They were not used to that type of fight.
The reason Peggy is a secretary for Agnes is because otherwise she wouldn’t be in the show. How would they get an African-American woman into the household if she weren’t a secretary? What a ridiculous thing to say. “Funny how they stuck Peggy as a secretary.” No it’s a major plot line. She wouldn’t be there if she were not a secretary.
Just subscribed and really enjoying this channel and the show. The used shoe incident reminds me of something that happened where I work recently. Where I work we often get homeless people in and out. A representative from the food bank came in looking for donations, and one of my coworkers asked this woman if they take expired canned goods…😑. Like somehow homeless people should just be grateful for the food that you reject. This type of microgression and prejudice exists in today. Don’t get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with donating food or clothing that you no longer wear, But expired goods and soiled or damaged clothing? Believe me, homeless people want to wear a clean non stained shirt too.
I don’t understand why Peggy was not situationally aware of the wealth of the Scotts. How could she ignore the obvious signs as demonstrated by their home? She could have not even opened the bag of shoes. White privilege …
Why would white people be held responsible for lack of knowledge of the Upscale neighborhoods in Brooklyn? Why would Marian coming from Pennsylvania? Making class assumptions were done all of the time, consider what people thought of the Irish? I thought it was understandable for Marian's character to be somewhat oblivious. She has shown genuine caring for Peggy and Peggy has shown personal interest in Marian's life, to wit, discussing the marriage proposal from Tom. It is understandable that Marian would make the mistake of thinking that they were friends. Actually my heart hurt the way Peggy publicly dressed down Marian and then saying essentially "I'm not your friend." I thought Peggy was more insightful than that behavior displayed. Had she not observed Marian's naive nature up to that point? YES Marian is oblivious but that trait has worked in Peggy's favor. I LOVED how Marian naturally assumed that she could introduce Peggy to her aunts UPSTAIRS. Because, why not? I also rather LOVED Marian's cluelessness about bringing Peggy into Bloomingdales. YES she was. not at all plugged in to the general prejudice that Peggy might face there, but that fact remains that SHE, personally did not have that same prejudice within herself. She just pulled Peggy in to take a look as one girlfriend to another because, obviously she felt that Peggy, absolutely had the right to be there. The personal assumptions she makes, while showing her clueless to Peggy's world, does indicate her own values, personally. Because of this, I find the disdain for Marian to be based upon today's standards and does not give her credit for her personal groundbreaking attitudes vis a vis Peggy. If she were a genuine racial SNOB, she would have been affronted by how the senior Scotts received her at their home, rather than be chagrined and sheepish as she was. She clearly showed that she was capable of being schooled in etiquette and racial realities of the day as well as her own unexamined assumptions. All that being said, I REALLY enjoyed seeing the Scotts' home, loved seeing a black educated family portrayed in such a manner and I look forward to much more of this storyline which hopefully turns into a black history lesson of that age for the audience.
Marian exhibited a lack of empathy in the store. Peggy was visibly afraid and Marian did not pick up on it. A friend would care about something like that. Sometimes white women regardless of their views can treat women of color like sidekicks instead of social equals.
@donnaflagg I'm a descendant of the black elite on one side of my family. The elders in my family shared their experiences and their elders' experiences. One of the Tuskegee airmen (part of the black elite) lived next door to one of my aunts and he shared his experiences in the early part of the 20th century. Of course, it is fiction. That is is the whole point of the exercise. Based upon the accounts of my elders the writing on this plotline is not off at all. Unless you have ancestors or elders that actually lived through that period and shared their experiences with you or you did extensive research on the black elite in that era your statement is merely an opinion. I hate woke stuff myself but the writer of this series has not gone there thus far. Can't vouch for the whole series at the time of this writing I'm not seeing any woke stuff.
The Peggy story line ended up pulling in historian Erica Dunbar as a consultant and then executive producer. I've read her work so this is very exciting. Pretty sure the character is a combination of a few people but Ida immediately correlates to Chicago in my mind.
Another real parallel for Peggy could be Frances Ellen Watkins Harper. Although she was older (born 1825), she published poems, short stories, and serials in newspapers before finally publishing her novel Iola Leroy in 1892.
Thanks for this lovely discussion! I learned a lot and actually think HBO can make a spinoff series featuring the Scotts and the African-American elite in the gilded age. One thing I hoped you'd at least discuss is the Mr. Russell and Miss Turner scene..... It was sooo awkward. I really hope Miss Turner won't do anything sinister to Bertha in future episodes.
Another wonderful segment of your podcast! Along the way I heard that a book the Gilded Age consultant recommended is: Carla L. Peterson
Black Gotham: A Family History of African Americans in Nineteenth-Century New York City. Thanks for your great podcast! (😊Former Breakers (Newport) guide here! )
During the Gilded Age, a male ancestor went to Yale, graduating from its law school, then later going into politics in Baltimore, where his home is now a historic house. Yes, he was a man of color.
That scene between Peggy and Marian on the streets of Brooklyn was powerful and a teaching moment for white women who seek sisterhood with black women. Never assume by default that you are 'better' than us or that we need saving. Don't assume that we believe in what you believe. Don't push your cross sectionality talking points. We are not your sidekicks that you dump your problems on without hearing our own. Just treat us as you would like to be treated.
peggy was giving me ida b wells too
P.S. I really enjoyed the history presented here on this podcast! Just, Wow!
As a former guide at The Breakers, Newport I can’t wait for today’s episode 5 with Trudy Cox. 😊
"Would the Fricks have been in, or would they have been out?" ...Well, Mr. Frick was mentioned in the Episode. I am shocked you all missed that or didn't mention it. If I recall correctly, it was in the back half of the episode, and was mentioned along with Mr. Gould; which is a nice easter egg for your listeners after last week's guest from Lyndhurst.
The mention of Jay Gould was definitely a great easter egg-- though I believe it's J.P. Morgan that gets mentioned alongside Gould, not Mr. Frick. If Mr. Frick got a shoutout elsewhere in the episode, I completely missed it!
The expectations of both Mr Russell and Mr Scott to have their child take over their business is an interesting parallel.
Wonderful as always!
What about the smoking hot editor/publisher?! I saw some sparks there for Peggy. Maybe a date?!!!
Love these !! Thanks so much for the work and effort ladies !!
Thanks for watching!
43:38 I need that spin-off 😅
Love the aftershow! Thanks
even though there have been alot of critics for this series- i believe it will be a turning point for historical dramas in the future to include more than one perspective of society and culture all existing in the same time and place.
Great episode. Thank you.
I don't see why George should be blamed(publicly or otherwise) for Morris's demise. Morris was just as ruthless laughing all the way to the bank. He was just as ruthless(if not more) as George! Afterall George created that opportunity for all of them to create wealth for themselves. But the second he got the chance, Morris was ready to take George down and keep his money! George should not be blamed for saving his business!
Most of these blue bloods never had to contend with a self made man. George in relation to them is a barbarian fresh from the fight. They were not used to that type of fight.
So excited for this!
I am predicting that Watson (the bald servant at the Russell's) is Mrs. Chamberlain's son. Just a hunch but you heard it hear first if I'm right. lol
Oops! I should have put George Turfley. I believe John was his father!
Bertha has dollar princess plans for Gladys, but she better act before Gladys turns 18.
The reason Peggy is a secretary for Agnes is because otherwise she wouldn’t be in the show. How would they get an African-American woman into the household if she weren’t a secretary? What a ridiculous thing to say. “Funny how they stuck Peggy as a secretary.” No it’s a major plot line. She wouldn’t be there if she were not a secretary.
@30:30, it’s still an attitude I’ve seen in my lifetime.
Just subscribed and really enjoying this channel and the show. The used shoe incident reminds me of something that happened where I work recently. Where I work we often get homeless people in and out. A representative from the food bank came in looking for donations, and one of my coworkers asked this woman if they take expired canned goods…😑. Like somehow homeless people should just be grateful for the food that you reject. This type of microgression and prejudice exists in today. Don’t get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with donating food or clothing that you no longer wear, But expired goods and soiled or damaged clothing? Believe me, homeless people want to wear a clean non stained shirt too.
Ummm…where is episode 5 recap?
Episode five is available now!
I don’t understand why Peggy was not situationally aware of the wealth of the Scotts. How could she ignore the obvious signs as demonstrated by their home? She could have not even opened the bag of shoes. White privilege …
You mean Marian was not situationally aware of the wealth of the scotts.
Why would white people be held responsible for lack of knowledge of the Upscale neighborhoods in Brooklyn? Why would Marian coming from Pennsylvania? Making class assumptions were done all of the time, consider what people thought of the Irish?
I thought it was understandable for Marian's character to be somewhat oblivious. She has shown genuine caring for Peggy and Peggy has shown personal interest in Marian's life, to wit, discussing the marriage proposal from Tom. It is understandable that Marian would make the mistake of thinking that they were friends.
Actually my heart hurt the way Peggy publicly dressed down Marian and then saying essentially "I'm not your friend." I thought Peggy was more insightful than that behavior displayed. Had she not observed Marian's naive nature up to that point? YES Marian is oblivious but that trait has worked in Peggy's favor. I LOVED how Marian naturally assumed that she could introduce Peggy to her aunts UPSTAIRS. Because, why not? I also rather LOVED Marian's cluelessness about bringing Peggy into Bloomingdales. YES she was. not at all plugged in to the general prejudice that Peggy might face there, but that fact remains that SHE, personally did not have that same prejudice within herself. She just pulled Peggy in to take a look as one girlfriend to another because, obviously she felt that Peggy, absolutely had the right to be there. The personal assumptions she makes, while showing her clueless to Peggy's world, does indicate her own values, personally. Because of this, I find the disdain for Marian to be based upon today's standards and does not give her credit for her personal groundbreaking attitudes vis a vis Peggy. If she were a genuine racial SNOB, she would have been affronted by how the senior Scotts received her at their home, rather than be chagrined and sheepish as she was. She clearly showed that she was capable of being schooled in etiquette and racial realities of the day as well as her own unexamined assumptions.
All that being said, I REALLY enjoyed seeing the Scotts' home, loved seeing a black educated family portrayed in such a manner and I look forward to much more of this storyline which hopefully turns into a black history lesson of that age for the audience.
Marian exhibited a lack of empathy in the store. Peggy was visibly afraid and Marian did not pick up on it. A friend would care about something like that. Sometimes white women regardless of their views can treat women of color like sidekicks instead of social equals.
@donnaflagg I'm a descendant of the black elite on one side of my family. The elders in my family shared their experiences and their elders' experiences. One of the Tuskegee airmen (part of the black elite) lived next door to one of my aunts and he shared his experiences in the early part of the 20th century.
Of course, it is fiction. That is is the whole point of the exercise. Based upon the accounts of my elders the writing on this plotline is not off at all. Unless you have ancestors or elders that actually lived through that period and shared their experiences with you or you did extensive research on the black elite in that era your statement is merely an opinion.
I hate woke stuff myself but the writer of this series has not gone there thus far. Can't vouch for the whole series at the time of this writing I'm not seeing any woke stuff.