Automobiles, Bicycles and Motorcycles in their infancy were raced. The people that created and road/drove these vehicles were like dare devils (and had money and time). These vehicle would not be were they are now without racing. Racing pushes innovation.
I would say at this point, USAGE - pushes innovation, as it did with all the platforms you mentioned. When USAGE becomes predictable then curiosity can take hold. - Who knows , maybe when the companies can make bigger parts purchases the tolerances on the parts machined will be better.
The "money and time" - will be part of my next couple of videos on the subject thanks for vibing and chiming in I love racing these against my friends as well. - That is not the conversation however
Tell me again how we should use 18th Century Industrial Business practices in our current economy? 😂 You can still enjoy racing without your ego being threatened by a different opinion than your own. I enjoy racing, just not watching it… much. Race with friends… stop trying to monetize it at the expense of the consumers.
Tell me again how we should use 18th Century Industrial Business practices in our current economy? 😂 You can still enjoy racing without your ego being threatened by a different opinion than your own. I enjoy racing, just not watching it… much. Race with friends… stop trying to monetize it at the expense of the consumers.
It's not the manufacturers; it's the users who always want to buy the newest and fastest EUCs, no matter how many they already own. Some of these devices can cost as much as a used car or a performance motorcycle. We need the community to start developing open-source EUCs because, apparently, the market for these vehicles is too small to attract traditional vehicle manufacturers or consumer electronics companies. Otherwise, we'd already see some generic-brand EUC manufacturers out there.
@@rraallvv was just discussing this on the trail. - The clamor of people asking for a better performing wheel can be answered by making the current wheels obsolete by -not optimizing firmware into years to come so the newer models seem faster / better in comparison -adding voltage as an arbitrary measure of performance ORRRR THEY CAN optimize the firmware into perpetuity, and refine parts making them available the units in the wild. , Creating e waste as a business plan, is not unheard of , but at this price tag - the planned obsolescence makes iPhone seem like a company got the people. There are already movements for open source vesc euc- the subversion of this information is also cause for curiosity-
Honestly, as someone who had only gotten into this community the past 3 years or so and just getting a first wheel, it’s been nearly impossible deciding on a first wheel bc every wheel I look at, by the time I have money for one, the community is like “nah that wheel is already obsolete. There’s a newer model with suspension, then better suspension, then more top speed, then quality (slightly)”, all with higher prices. When I was looking for a wheel 3 years ago I was looking at spending 1k-2k on a used Rs19. Now I’m still looking and they got me considering $3k-4k for a Patton s or lynx. It’s kind of like the community has fueled this big pissing match with the manufacturers. I have a commander pro now that I can’t even ride yet bc it’s so big I can’t get past 5 feet without dumping it and I preordered an Aero so fast bc it just seems sensible in comparison. Small, rugged, fine for learning and easier to throw in the car so I can practice at work on my breaks. I used to want a “wheel that I can grow into” and now I just want a wheel that I can easily learn on that “won’t kill me too quickly.” 😂 bc once I get proficient I’m still going to find ways to hurt myself I’m sure. I just want the feeling of riding again bc I don’t trust my Onewheel anymore. 🤷♂️ I’m excited to ride my Cpro eventually but for now I just want to ride.
I started on a Commander Pro 50s and it took 2 weeks of 1 hour a day in hard grass to finally go around a school track. Then I wasn’t actually comfortable on her until 500-600 miles of back roads riding. Now it feels like a cloud I’m on and I’m around 1,600 miles and pushing 35-45 mph is easy. Keep practicing an hour only daily and sometimes take a 3 day break and you’ll get it. Cheers and stay geared up. 😮
@ thank you so incredibly much! When I get on my Cpro I’ve only been on for about 30 min at a time before my back is killing me fron bending over and catching it repeatedly 😂. I can’t tell you how encouraging this was to hear though, thank you. I’ll keep at it
@@jontaba80 Don’t be too hard on yourself. It is absolutely a learning curve and I can say once it clicks , you will be happy you stayed with it. I was dumbfounded at first and thought ‘Oh no what did I buy’. But now I find myself hitting almost 50 mph and having to slow down so I don’t get too hurt because I’m 48 years old hahaha.
This experience is typical among most people who express enthusiasm about the prospect of riding EUCs and has been a missed opportunity since the industry began. Your story should be discussed and understood by everyone involved in wanting to promote this incredible hobby or transportation revolution, however you may experience it. ❤
Never really thought about EUC for racing, feel like it's way too early and still a little too unsafe. We'll probably need a few more years to get truly safe EUCs (That and increased voltage to have more safety.) We need more durable parts and maybe modular parts to quick swap batteries like E-bikes, all EUCs from now on should have at least an IPX6 rating. Also prices for a decent EUC with okay range/batteries is wacky high as compared to E-bikes. Anyways I mainly use my EUC for commutating/shopping. Or just out and about.
Ok but whenever is any racing sport safe? Boat racing car racing wing racing all have fatalities. I would actually say eucs jas less deaths than all the other races?
Your videos are always educational and made in the philosophical way. I'm surprised you did not write books. Just as someone already has said you made some good points. As far as the performance part goes let's talk about behind the scenes, with the racers at the global race, and the local ones too. They're always having problems with overheating, with a certain manufacturer. Even Leaperkim has its share. I feel like this is where the manufacturer should be at and studying the problems and working for solutions instead of us relaying the message to them. They should do more field testing and longer ones over a coarse of months, instead of rushing the release of the wheel. Maybe if they sent a engineer to the US and have him at the races where he can sell problems on hand and see them first hand
Good vid 👍 I watch a race here and there so I'm not a big fan. I like the dirt track stuff more as I believe it is more of a challenge. Have to agree about seeing dependability first. But manufacturers care about one thing, that's profit. If they see the most market profit margin in wheels for grannies, that's where they will go. They don't care about dependability as long as they are not losing on the warranty terms. Cheers
He wants a windshield, antilock brakes , airbags , alarm system, built in nav, heated seats, and a governor. Then we can race again! Hilarious click bait you got me ! Haha 😅 🫶
The conpanies arent really making race wheels, that would be a non suspension high voltage lightweight device, in my eyes at least. The companies are making what the consumers want for the most part, we have suspension being perfected more and more every few months, we have small wheels gaining popularity again, we have more riders than ever, i don't think the companies have much of a choice, riders race what they feel the best on. Inmotion isnt trying to get in to the eace scene and thats very obvious since their only truly high torque wheel goes 43mph amd their fastest wheel goes 55 and is a turd. We already see begode/extreme bull being the most performance driven conpany and i love that, i like power and speed so begode is the way (for me). I know people that dont care to go fast wont really care much about that but lots of us want to be able to go 55+mph and these new devices are making this speed more and more safe.
@@JoshuaMothis great points! Valid perspectives! - Do you know which company moves the most volume? Which company is actually growing the market? - Can I ask you if you are aware of the impact on sales that legislation of EUC has had to the UK market? - We do have more new riders than ever by virtue of time passed- but I think the concern I have is “sector growth” , and stay tuned I have some pretty interesting details about how the extreme perception of EUC has impacted / crippled growth in certain places. - Thanks for the well spoken thoughtful comment
Inmotion is actually trying to get in the race scene, they were at the Begode Global race studying the races. The are now working on a performance wheel or racing wheel.
@@ultrasupreme9312 They have made their bread and butter from the v8 and v5f for many many years, creating a solid platform- they created a wheel that was overbuilt for the performance it gave (the v13) , they gave us a pointedly offroad wheel.. they spent all of 2024 on beginner wheels and still have more introductory style wheels coming. If they finally decide to make a "performance" wheel, it will have been after a long line of consumer grade wheels - ignoring the space race. If you go back to the video of Bob Yan and I from 2023 they were planning a high-performance wheel for some time, just - not in a ":race" with other manufacturers to get there. It will be an exciting wheel
Begode , Leaperkim, Extreme Bull - are the wheels most promoted in the racing space , Begode / EB more so by the manufacturers than Leaperkim. Inmotion, has a pragmatic approach that shows maturity in the companies life cycle. Makes them much less exciting right now, but its a long game. Kingsong... I am not sure they want to even sell wheels
@ there has been improvement in safety amongst many of these wheels such as improved firmware and smart BMS. Also improved electronics preventing cut outs during battery failures.
Interesting points you make - also 140 views after only 4 hours on the net pretty good my freind. I really value this video since I have the exact opposite opinion than yours. EUC racing will generate stronger machines and better technology, but Ill need to think more about the points your making. In other sports better tech came about because of the competitive elite, carving skies are better than the old type of skis, Windsurf, foilboarding and kitesurf tech got better (and safer) partly because of the competitors (but also hardcore math based engineering) Cars and racerbikes are also based on b etter tech from the competitive sports. Maybe your are right which leads to the sad conclusion that I am wrong. When I saw the chinese races I really enjoyed it and was inspired - also gave me a good excuse for being lazy and repairing my bloody sherman S with bad bearings (oh the irony) Food for thought mate thx for that.
@@FinnBjerke I love your interactions always. - And I actually agree with you. - It’s weird, because I want racing to exist , I want the parts to be that dependable and the growth to be explosive. I don’t know the answer , just a conversation. I love the spirit of competition , I love pushing the limits. - So the conversation it’s a hard one for me. So I wanted everyone else to input , let me know - let’s help this sport grow!
People will race. Best is to have a world EUC racing federation. It is the best incentive to development. Then, manufacturers need to separate their public and racing divisions. Racing machines are normally sold without guaranty, sometimes in unassembled parts. That’s the direction the EUC manufacturers should take. Grand public products must be tested, approved, and covered with a real guarantee. So far, very little had been done in that direction. When I buy a performance EUC for myself, I take it apart and rebuild it for my requirements, often with many upgrades. When I buy an EUC for my daughter, I want a safe one that’s designed for reliability and manufactured with quality control. For next summer, I chose the H22 for myself, and the e25 for my daughter. Those choices are unlikely to change. I will probably fit Fox Factory internals in the H22 suspension. I still ride the S18 to accompany my daughter in weekend leisure rides. She’s done 2 years on the 14d. She tried my S18 occasionally last summer, and still find it too big. I believe the e25 will be the perfect ride for her in the next 2 or 3 years.
I agree. And separate racing from comuting so we dont get a bad rap and wind up ruining it for everybody cause a couple idiots race eucs running red light and being jerks.
I get what you’re saying. The commuter market exists, but it’s not what drives excitement or growth in the EUC world. The bulk of people who stick with EUCs are the ones who want performance, speed, range, power, and maneuverability. That’s why you post videos of yourself racing on the beach, jumping your wheel at skate parks, and riding technical trails. Whether it’s racing, high speed riding, or carving through the street, that’s what captures people’s attention and gets them hooked. The reality is, if EUC manufacturers like Begode focused purely on commuters like King Song, I believe the industry would stagnate. Look at e-bikes, what’s the first one that comes to mind with a cult following? Answer: Surron. So I disagree that EUCs should be marketed as a practical means of commuting because doing so wouldn’t drive demand. The EUC industry thrives today because of innovation in performance, not because people are looking for a replacement for a bicycle. Yes, EUCs are niche, but that niche is not casual riders looking for an alternative to walking. It’s people looking for a little excitement and adventure in their life. Seeing some guy casually rolling down the street wouldn’t have inspired me to buy an EUC. But seeing a fast carver ripping through traffic? That’s the energy that makes people want one. Prove me wrong, post a video of yourself on a casual ride and compare it to the views you get from one of your videos ripping through the streets or trails.
And nothing like seeing skilled EUC riders violating just about every traffic law in the city and posting it on YT! Idiots! Easy evidence for lawmakers/policymakers...
Automobiles, Bicycles and Motorcycles in their infancy were raced.
The people that created and road/drove these vehicles were like dare devils (and had money and time). These vehicle would not be were they are now without racing. Racing pushes innovation.
I would say at this point, USAGE - pushes innovation, as it did with all the platforms you mentioned.
When USAGE becomes predictable then curiosity can take hold.
-
Who knows , maybe when the companies can make bigger parts purchases the tolerances on the parts machined will be better.
The "money and time" - will be part of my next couple of videos on the subject
thanks for vibing and chiming in
I love racing these against my friends as well.
-
That is not the conversation however
Runing booze guns and now hahaha
Tell me again how we should use 18th Century Industrial Business practices in our current economy? 😂
You can still enjoy racing without your ego being threatened by a different opinion than your own. I enjoy racing, just not watching it… much.
Race with friends… stop trying to monetize it at the expense of the consumers.
Tell me again how we should use 18th Century Industrial Business practices in our current economy? 😂
You can still enjoy racing without your ego being threatened by a different opinion than your own. I enjoy racing, just not watching it… much.
Race with friends… stop trying to monetize it at the expense of the consumers.
It's not the manufacturers; it's the users who always want to buy the newest and fastest EUCs, no matter how many they already own. Some of these devices can cost as much as a used car or a performance motorcycle. We need the community to start developing open-source EUCs because, apparently, the market for these vehicles is too small to attract traditional vehicle manufacturers or consumer electronics companies. Otherwise, we'd already see some generic-brand EUC manufacturers out there.
@@rraallvv was just discussing this on the trail.
-
The clamor of people asking for a better performing wheel can be answered by making the current wheels obsolete by
-not optimizing firmware into years to come so the newer models seem faster / better in comparison
-adding voltage as an arbitrary measure of performance
ORRRR
THEY CAN optimize the firmware into perpetuity, and refine parts making them available the units in the wild.
,
Creating e waste as a business plan, is not unheard of , but at this price tag - the planned obsolescence makes iPhone seem like a company got the people.
There are already movements for open source vesc euc- the subversion of this information is also cause for curiosity-
Wow. Nice you have a really good manufacturing pathway concept. You are the one who will move this forward into success. 🙂
Performance mcs are over 20k...
@@TERRANcmb👏👏👏
Honestly, as someone who had only gotten into this community the past 3 years or so and just getting a first wheel, it’s been nearly impossible deciding on a first wheel bc every wheel I look at, by the time I have money for one, the community is like “nah that wheel is already obsolete. There’s a newer model with suspension, then better suspension, then more top speed, then quality (slightly)”, all with higher prices. When I was looking for a wheel 3 years ago I was looking at spending 1k-2k on a used Rs19. Now I’m still looking and they got me considering $3k-4k for a Patton s or lynx. It’s kind of like the community has fueled this big pissing match with the manufacturers. I have a commander pro now that I can’t even ride yet bc it’s so big I can’t get past 5 feet without dumping it and I preordered an Aero so fast bc it just seems sensible in comparison. Small, rugged, fine for learning and easier to throw in the car so I can practice at work on my breaks. I used to want a “wheel that I can grow into” and now I just want a wheel that I can easily learn on that “won’t kill me too quickly.” 😂 bc once I get proficient I’m still going to find ways to hurt myself I’m sure. I just want the feeling of riding again bc I don’t trust my Onewheel anymore. 🤷♂️ I’m excited to ride my Cpro eventually but for now I just want to ride.
I started on a Commander Pro 50s and it took 2 weeks of 1 hour a day in hard grass to finally go around a school track. Then I wasn’t actually comfortable on her until 500-600 miles of back roads riding. Now it feels like a cloud I’m on and I’m around 1,600 miles and pushing 35-45 mph is easy. Keep practicing an hour only daily and sometimes take a 3 day break and you’ll get it. Cheers and stay geared up. 😮
@ thank you so incredibly much! When I get on my Cpro I’ve only been on for about 30 min at a time before my back is killing me fron bending over and catching it repeatedly 😂. I can’t tell you how encouraging this was to hear though, thank you. I’ll keep at it
@ I have a 50e that a local rider gifted me bc he’s so kind, I really want to do him proud without beating this thing up too much
@@jontaba80 Don’t be too hard on yourself. It is absolutely a learning curve and I can say once it clicks , you will be happy you stayed with it. I was dumbfounded at first and thought ‘Oh no what did I buy’. But now I find myself hitting almost 50 mph and having to slow down so I don’t get too hurt because I’m 48 years old hahaha.
This experience is typical among most people who express enthusiasm about the prospect of riding EUCs and has been a missed opportunity since the industry began.
Your story should be discussed and understood by everyone involved in wanting to promote this incredible hobby or transportation revolution, however you may experience it. ❤
Never really thought about EUC for racing, feel like it's way too early and still a little too unsafe. We'll probably need a few more years to get truly safe EUCs (That and increased voltage to have more safety.) We need more durable parts and maybe modular parts to quick swap batteries like E-bikes, all EUCs from now on should have at least an IPX6 rating. Also prices for a decent EUC with okay range/batteries is wacky high as compared to E-bikes.
Anyways I mainly use my EUC for commutating/shopping. Or just out and about.
Ok but whenever is any racing sport safe? Boat racing car racing wing racing all have fatalities. I would actually say eucs jas less deaths than all the other races?
Even marathon runers die from heart attacks. Euc safety is much exagerated I think.
Your videos are always educational and made in the philosophical way. I'm surprised you did not write books. Just as someone already has said you made some good points. As far as the performance part goes let's talk about behind the scenes, with the racers at the global race, and the local ones too. They're always having problems with overheating, with a certain manufacturer. Even Leaperkim has its share. I feel like this is where the manufacturer should be at and studying the problems and working for solutions instead of us relaying the message to them. They should do more field testing and longer ones over a coarse of months, instead of rushing the release of the wheel. Maybe if they sent a engineer to the US and have him at the races where he can sell problems on hand and see them first hand
so many great points here bro
Agreed 100%
Good vid 👍
I watch a race here and there so I'm not a big fan. I like the dirt track stuff more as I believe it is more of a challenge.
Have to agree about seeing dependability first. But manufacturers care about one thing, that's profit. If they see the most market profit margin in wheels for grannies, that's where they will go.
They don't care about dependability as long as they are not losing on the warranty terms.
Cheers
He wants a windshield, antilock brakes , airbags , alarm system, built in nav, heated seats, and a governor. Then we can race again! Hilarious click bait you got me ! Haha 😅 🫶
I'm joking no need to reply 🎉
master 'bait'er - lol, cheers man
@@johnnygovroom hahaha 😆
@ all in fun 🤩
Pretty sure euc racers just refer to the rest of us as "new riders"
lol, thats me... Just a regular new rider- trying to have fun with my friends.
The conpanies arent really making race wheels, that would be a non suspension high voltage lightweight device, in my eyes at least. The companies are making what the consumers want for the most part, we have suspension being perfected more and more every few months, we have small wheels gaining popularity again, we have more riders than ever, i don't think the companies have much of a choice, riders race what they feel the best on. Inmotion isnt trying to get in to the eace scene and thats very obvious since their only truly high torque wheel goes 43mph amd their fastest wheel goes 55 and is a turd. We already see begode/extreme bull being the most performance driven conpany and i love that, i like power and speed so begode is the way (for me). I know people that dont care to go fast wont really care much about that but lots of us want to be able to go 55+mph and these new devices are making this speed more and more safe.
@@JoshuaMothis great points! Valid perspectives!
-
Do you know which company moves the most volume?
Which company is actually growing the market?
-
Can I ask you if you are aware of the impact on sales that legislation of EUC has had to the UK market?
-
We do have more new riders than ever by virtue of time passed- but I think the concern I have is “sector growth” , and stay tuned
I have some pretty interesting details about how the extreme perception of EUC has impacted / crippled growth in certain places.
-
Thanks for the well spoken thoughtful comment
Inmotion is actually trying to get in the race scene, they were at the Begode Global race studying the races. The are now working on a performance wheel or racing wheel.
@@ultrasupreme9312 They have made their bread and butter from the v8 and v5f for many many years, creating a solid platform- they created a wheel that was overbuilt for the performance it gave (the v13) , they gave us a pointedly offroad wheel.. they spent all of 2024 on beginner wheels and still have more introductory style wheels coming.
If they finally decide to make a "performance" wheel, it will have been after a long line of consumer grade wheels - ignoring the space race.
If you go back to the video of Bob Yan and I from 2023 they were planning a high-performance wheel for some time, just - not in a ":race" with other manufacturers to get there.
It will be an exciting wheel
Which models are you talking about?
Begode , Leaperkim, Extreme Bull - are the wheels most promoted in the racing space ,
Begode / EB more so by the manufacturers than Leaperkim.
Inmotion, has a pragmatic approach that shows maturity in the companies life cycle. Makes them much less exciting right now, but its a long game.
Kingsong... I am not sure they want to even sell wheels
@ there has been improvement in safety amongst many of these wheels such as improved firmware and smart BMS. Also improved electronics preventing cut outs during battery failures.
Interesting points you make - also 140 views after only 4 hours on the net pretty good my freind. I really value this video since I have the exact opposite opinion than yours. EUC racing will generate stronger machines and better technology, but Ill need to think more about the points your making. In other sports better tech came about because of the competitive elite, carving skies are better than the old type of skis, Windsurf, foilboarding and kitesurf tech got better (and safer) partly because of the competitors (but also hardcore math based engineering) Cars and racerbikes are also based on b etter tech from the competitive sports. Maybe your are right which leads to the sad conclusion that I am wrong. When I saw the chinese races I really enjoyed it and was inspired - also gave me a good excuse for being lazy and repairing my bloody sherman S with bad bearings (oh the irony) Food for thought mate thx for that.
@@FinnBjerke I love your interactions always.
-
And I actually agree with you.
-
It’s weird, because I want racing to exist , I want the parts to be that dependable and the growth to be explosive.
I don’t know the answer , just a conversation.
I love the spirit of competition , I love pushing the limits.
-
So the conversation it’s a hard one for me.
So I wanted everyone else to input , let me know - let’s help this sport grow!
People will race. Best is to have a world EUC racing federation. It is the best incentive to development.
Then, manufacturers need to separate their public and racing divisions. Racing machines are normally sold without guaranty, sometimes in unassembled parts. That’s the direction the EUC manufacturers should take.
Grand public products must be tested, approved, and covered with a real guarantee. So far, very little had been done in that direction.
When I buy a performance EUC for myself, I take it apart and rebuild it for my requirements, often with many upgrades.
When I buy an EUC for my daughter, I want a safe one that’s designed for reliability and manufactured with quality control.
For next summer, I chose the H22 for myself, and the e25 for my daughter. Those choices are unlikely to change. I will probably fit Fox Factory internals in the H22 suspension.
I still ride the S18 to accompany my daughter in weekend leisure rides. She’s done 2 years on the 14d. She tried my S18 occasionally last summer, and still find it too big. I believe the e25 will be the perfect ride for her in the next 2 or 3 years.
I agree. And separate racing from comuting so we dont get a bad rap and wind up ruining it for everybody cause a couple idiots race eucs running red light and being jerks.
People will race anything
The competitive spirit is something I do love.
Soapbox racing hahaha
I get what you’re saying. The commuter market exists, but it’s not what drives excitement or growth in the EUC world. The bulk of people who stick with EUCs are the ones who want performance, speed, range, power, and maneuverability. That’s why you post videos of yourself racing on the beach, jumping your wheel at skate parks, and riding technical trails. Whether it’s racing, high speed riding, or carving through the street, that’s what captures people’s attention and gets them hooked.
The reality is, if EUC manufacturers like Begode focused purely on commuters like King Song, I believe the industry would stagnate. Look at e-bikes, what’s the first one that comes to mind with a cult following? Answer: Surron.
So I disagree that EUCs should be marketed as a practical means of commuting because doing so wouldn’t drive demand. The EUC industry thrives today because of innovation in performance, not because people are looking for a replacement for a bicycle. Yes, EUCs are niche, but that niche is not casual riders looking for an alternative to walking. It’s people looking for a little excitement and adventure in their life.
Seeing some guy casually rolling down the street wouldn’t have inspired me to buy an EUC. But seeing a fast carver ripping through traffic? That’s the energy that makes people want one. Prove me wrong, post a video of yourself on a casual ride and compare it to the views you get from one of your videos ripping through the streets or trails.
Good point. Racing is money. Would you race a bunch of chevettes and make a shit load of money?
And nothing like seeing skilled EUC riders violating just about every traffic law in the city and posting it on YT! Idiots! Easy evidence for lawmakers/policymakers...
Yup. Atleast film it on a private area. Idiots will be idiots theres no stopping them.
Racing lets start from reliability.. I'm sorry, but what are you talking about is just some nonsense.