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"You can't have happy endings in sitcoms, not really, because if everyone's happy, the show would be over, and above all else, the show... has to keep going," - BoJack Horseman.
I don't remember that quote but I love that show. Bojack Horseman is a good example of a show that had just enough seasons (maybe one season too few) and never stopped being true to itself.
@@angryvaultguy You don't get the quote. The quote is talking about how the show can't end because it pays the animators and voice actors, and eveybody working on the show. The quote says nothing about liking the show, but it's talking about how it must go on.
Out of all the cartoons that went through seasonal rot, fairly odd parents was the worst. What’s worse is that they had multiple opportunities to call and quit, but by the time it was permanently canceled, just about half its runtime was seasonal rot.
Ive heard rumors that the series was originally supposed to end at Season 5 with the Power Hour 3 but then Nickelodeon ordered 20 more episodes for Season 6 with introduction of Baby Poof.
I caught a later-season episode and one of the sight gags was a reference to Extreme Makeover: Home Edition. I thought to myself: that joke is gonna age like milk. The only people I knew who watched EMHE were old people.
I was full expecting the girl character, Chloe to be a good way for kids to understand depression or anxiety. Like, sure she has a happy outlook but maybe have an episode where wishes just don’t make her happy or something. And it’s like “yeah, some days I just don’t feel happy. And I don’t want to leave my room. Is that okay?” And they could have. But nope. They absolutely ruin the rule that godparents go to miserable kids.
I think flanderization plays a big role in cartoons. Shows start to lose their grip when the characters become stereotypes of what they were initially.
Exactly. Once the writers start going for more guest stars and low hanging jokes over character development and world building, they might as well pull the plug. I think that's why I was disappointed with the recent season of Futurama.
the studio can't seem to comprehend that all the memes came from BEFORE season 4, except for that spongebob chicken template. 99% of post-movie spongebob is not worthy of remembering
its not just that but you're not wrong. spongebob posts episodes on youtube/youtube kids now so they're focusing heavily to appeal to younger kids. most kids on youtube are ipad kids who need constant stimulation to hold their attention. the spongebob writers are now focusing on young children while also attempting to keep old fans satisfied by bringing back one-off characters.
I loved your point about the show not feeling "real" anymore because it's such a subtle critique but it's so true. I too feel that at some point, these long running shows begin to feel less real. The best way I can describe it is the show becomes somewhat self-aware, it's aware of how culturally impactful and iconic it is. And because it's aware of its importance, the characters aren't written as just another piece of that show, they are written with an acute awareness of how the audience will react to them. Now the writers know that the audience has certain expectations and in trying to meet those expectations, the writing begins to feel self-aware. I'm not talking about a self-referential sort of self awareness (although that can start happening too), I'm talking about a scene perhaps being framed in a certain way because the writers expect it to be iconic or a character does something arbitrary because the writers are checking a box for familiar character trait. An example of this is Vegeta. In the first few seasons of DBZ, his character, introduction, and role in the plot were so raw and natural. He was another in a long line of villains turned rivals and his journey felt organic and real. But now, the cultural expectation is that Vegeta will always be Goku's rival because he's so iconic, that rivalry is part of Dragon Ball's identity. As a result, the show never introduces a new rival to replace Vegeta. They always have Vegeta fill the same role in new DB as Goku's sideman because they need to check that box. But this feels weird and less "real" because logically, Vegeta would have been replaced by a new rival at this point like Tien and Piccolo were before him. Old Vegeta was written so we never knew what he was going to do. But modern Vegeta is written so we know exactly what he'll do. Another example is Super Saiyan vs Ultra Instinct. When SS was introduced, no one realized this was about to become one of the most famous power-ups in all of fiction. It was introduced with nothing but faith in the concept and its role in the story. But Ultra Instinct was created with the goal of replicating the enthrallment viewers felt with when seeing SS for the first time. SS was well written and just so happened to become the next big thing. But Ultra Instinct, conversely, was explicitly designed to be the next big thing. That's what I mean when I say it's self-aware. The end result is that the show loses the rawness, the "realness" that it originally had. When the show was first made, the creators had no idea what was going to stay in the cultural consciousness, what scenes, gags, character, settings were going to become part of popular culture. They were going in totally blind. But now the writers feel the need to meet certain expectations, to hit certain check boxes, because they know what the audiences expects. It makes certain choices feel arbitrary, like the writers are winking at the audience because they know what they want. The show isn't exploring new, uncharted territory anymore, it's going through the familiar because it has to meet familiar audience expectations.
As a massive dragon ball nerd, I completely get this. Like, I loved the Super Hero Movie, but Gohan's Beast Transformation was such a nostalgia bait move, they weren't even hiding it with the design. I don't know, I'm kinda conflicted on Modern Dragonball, but the latest manga chapter is looking good, and I hope Daima doesn't rely too much on nostalgia
Well said. Vegeta has no business being there, he's not interesting like in the beginning, not important like in Namek saga, he doesn't even irritate me as much as during the Cell saga. I didn't like the Buu arc and its version of Vegeta didn't exactly speak to my heart, but at least he made me feel something, even if it was irritation. But now? Why is he even in the story other than selling merch? It's a genuine question, I dropped Super around the Tournament of Power. They even retconned his famous "You're better than me" speech, the only thing that made his presence in that arc justified. The role of a rival is temporary, eventually Goku will try to find someone stronger to become better himself, and that's fine, that's why we love him, and Vegeta still occupying this role now doesn't make sense. I mean, the idea of someone growing in strength alongside Goku isn't bad, it's the same basic idea Goku's relationship with Krillin used to have. But that would be a role of a friend, and we can't have Vegeta growing past his teenage rebellious phase and accepting Goku as his genuine friend, his merch might stop making money. They had this problem with Piccolo and for a long time struggled with finding a place for him in the story, but they ultimately did. He has his own unique role that feels natural for his journey and if I had to guess, his merch is making more money than ever before. I know I would much rather buy his figurine now than ever before. But he's about the only one. As much as I love Dragon Ball, it reached its natural ending point years ago
For me i stop caring, for me dragon ball, was good the first season, the original dragon ball, z was already bad, and i hate ok respect for Toriyama he work in so many good works, he create an art stile, but you cant lie, i am sorry but, dragon ball has not been good since the original, you mention Vegeta, not feeling real, i stop watching the serie, but the moment in the movie, one of the memes is that Vegeta cant win, cant be superior or have an important moment beyond some gimick, and when in the movie against Freeze he was going to have his revenge an iconic moment and no, Goku has to kill it, or iwn, why, he admit that Goku was the best, he is superior, and then they revert it and back like nothing, not to mention all the characters basicly banish, on the ether, for me dragon ball should have end in z, but now Goku is basicly retarded, Vegeta is nothing more than Gokus rival, and that is it, why they dont end it already, figths wich in early dragon ball feel intense, now are powers, after power, the dragon balls, the reason the serie is call like that become second thougth, in the first serie were these magical and mistical artifact wars erupt for controling now being meh, also how you can challenge gods, what i said gods, titans, they are challenging titans and death is an after tougth who cares, i hate people praising dragon ball and all the derivates with invinsible characters and saying no they are not op, the only character i show some moment of care in modern shonen was Rebecca for the premise she being a regular human, who gets tired, and can be hurt, yes a normal human, i remember in terrible writting advice he show a graf, and he in his sarcastic way, saying but people love op characters and love mi invinsible character, and the graf show one side all powerful superman he cant die and the other a regular human and put how much i can relate and how an op character feels alien, that is mi problem with modern anime in general, specialy shonen, because shonen in the past could be sports, racing and many others ideas, now is always super heroes or isekai
I’d say the opposite actually to describe it myself. It’s essentially what you described. I’d say that the long running shows end up feeling too real and lose their magic. At the end of the day these shows are supposed to be an escape from our world as we submerge ourselves into theirs. I think that’s basically what you mean when you say it becomes self-aware. An example I’d give of this is around 2012 for the Simpsons. I’d say around this time period they were still watchable. Once they started giving characters social media personas and phones is when I started drawing the line cause it didn’t feel right. This is what I mean by them now trying to keep up and stay hip, trying to mimic our world when it should be the opposite.
Sometimes I forget the fact Grey’s Anatomy is still going on, and yet somehow I still don’t know what the heck show is even about anymore for it to go this long.
As someone whose wife loves that show, Maribeth is now working on a cure from Alzheimer's despite being a general surgeon she is now somehow qualified to lead this. Only 3 of the original cast is still there and I believe her husband's ex wife is back in the show now as well so maybe 4 of the original cast as she was a big part in the first few seasons before her spin off
My wife who is a Grey's Anatomy ride or die doesn't even keep up with the new seasons since almost every character introduced prior to the last five years has been phased out one way or another.
i just started watching it for the first time and made it up to the covid season before stopping. 💔 the new cast are randoms. i would rather rewatch from the beginning at this point 😭
As a kid, it always confused me when cosmo would interact with Timmy's dad and crocker. Like, wasn't one of the shows biggest rules that fairy godparents *couldn't* be seen by other people or they would lose them forever?
I stopped watching the show when Sparky first appeared, but even then, it was starting to show that the writers stopped caring about the rules *_THEY CREATED!!_*
When they go back on something major, that's where it's a problem. For example, in an earlier episode, it's shown that Crocker was a good kid that lost his fairies because of Timmy, meaning Timmy created his arch-enemy. In a later episode, they show Crocker was always a jerk and lost his fairies on his own. Not nearly as interesting
Lesson from the life of an animator: "If you are going to hire a writer for your cartoon(or the cartoon you direct),make sure he cares about your show and always check what he writes on paper before the episode enters the project and airs,and of course you know when it's time to finish."
Spongebob is so old in the german dub we already lost the voice of Mr. Krabs, Plankton, Squidward because they died, Patrick's voice was replaced becsuse he wanted more money and the voice of Mrs. Puff has retired.
These are things I feel can kill a series. Some of which you mentioned: 1. Of course going on for to long. Aside from the issue of staleness, there are other things that simply come with that effect. 2. Giving a mostly episodic series a more plot centered focus. A lot of series handle this right and I actually encourage this. But when later episodes focus a bit more on heavier plot impacted elements, I feel it can disrupt the overall flow. Like how in Regular Show when they brought in the dome and scientist. It changed the feel of the show and kinda dulled the impact brought from the randomness of an episodic series. 3. Simply changing or removing to much. Like Fairly Oddparents. Removed old characters, brought in new ones WAY to late into the series run. 4. A sudden change in staff. Not always a bad thing, but take Rick and Morty for example. Dan brought in more writers for the sake of “equality” without considering the fact that those not directly connected to the show and it’s team may not be the best for such a consistent series. 5. And probably the easiest and worst one to screw up, forgetting the fundamentals. Of course, SpongeBob. They insisted on making almost every character equally unlikable. To the point where someone as dull and empty as Squidward became seen as the exception.
You forgot to mention one important one. 6. Milking a franchise to the point it gets uninteresting. The Loud House used to be a hit or miss show. But after Chris Savino got fired from Nickelodeon. The show had a massive drop in quality. The later seasons ( 4 to 7 ) were proof of that .They made one spinoff called The Casagrandes in 2019. Than in 2021 a live action Christmas movie got made regardless of the negative backlash it got when first announced back in 2020. Then in March 2022 Nickelodeon made one of the worst choices in the history of their network they ever made. A live action spinoff show and another season of the animated show ( the animated show was doing badly in the ratings at that point ) . 2023 had another live action train wreck movie , it flopped . 2024 is set to give another second season of that live action spinoff series. Thankfully, the animated series hasn't been renewed for another season in 2024. So let's hope Nickelodeon finally decides to cancel it for good.
I don’t know know if anything will come of my research, but I very much intend to study this show from various angles. Some metrics I’d like to track are Characters and number of lines/episodes, types of Jokes and frequency over time, Topics of interest, frequency and how it’s handled, plot structure to see whether they are consistent across multiple episodes or confined to just one, and Staff and which era they were a part of, with each era defined by different staff or main aesthetic differences/goals unique to the era. It’s going to be a lot, but if anyone is interested in tracking that too and working on such a project, then it will be good for science to not be confined to the vague intentions of one person. This is all in service to my wild hopes to understand the strengths and pitfalls of the original by studying its features objectively, writing several analytical works based on the research and then using that same knowledge to inform and strengthen the writing of my hypothetical reboot of the series. It will never be the exact same series, but capturing the heart of it by doing a proper autopsy seems like a good place to start.
It had a slot on my hypothetical game show, "Funny or Fetish?" Cosmo getting pregnant, is it FUNNY OR FETISH? And after that, we have the writer from Powerpuff Girls who self-inserted himself so he could ship himself with a girl who is canonically 5 years old, and all of Totally Spies.
@@ScrambledAndBenedict I hate to assume the worst, but I would not be too surprised if it was a fetish. Knowing the show’s sense of humor, though, I think it is an extension of “feminine man= funny” that usually leads to a bunch of crossdressing, gender nonconformity (Timmy and his dad being the ones who wear makeup in the family), and romantic attraction between men. This time though, instead it lead to trans man vibes instead of trans woman/effeminate gay vibes. (with shows like this, they are conflated despite being distinct). I know Cosmo’s a fairy and not human, but the pregnant man thing, while a fetish, is also an actual type of person.
Bobs burgers is the only long running show where the plot is less crazy every season I do agree that Bobs Burgers “is” the most consistently good show on TV, but some of the season 10+ episodes are really boring. Everyone is starting to lose their personalities and all sound depressed which kinda fits the characters but is a problem when the main appeal of the show is the charming characters. It feels like the show is starting to slowly not care like every other long running show
I personally don't mind the slice-of-life episodes as Bob's Burgers went on, but I'd be lying if I said that there weren't some that left me bored. One specifically was when Bob was involved with multiple fender benders. It's not as exciting as it actually sounds.
Bobs Burgers has over corrected and the show is so fucking drab and boring now. Borderline conflict-less, every episoce is a nothing burger devoid of jokes.
I hadn’t watched Bob’s Burgers in years but I used to be avid viewer and I went to the movie in theaters and I was completely shocked by how “soft” the characters became, especially Louise. S1 Louise would never spend an entire movie trying to prove she wasn’t a “baby.”
American Dad has really avoided the same drama all these other adult animations have. I guess that's because it's in two halves, the Fox era for 11 seasons and TBS era for 9 seasons. Because both share the workload, the characters evolve all over again to fit the new company's designs. TBS's style is to start an episode with a basic premise (eg, Francine likes ASMR) and ends with a ridiculously high stakes plot (Francine is absorbing Chernobyl radioactive waste). It's not the Fox structure but it works, and it's their way of keeping the show fresh
That does make sense. American Dad has always remained stable and fresh, and I like it much more than family guy. American Dad imo is Seth's Magnum opus.
When it comes to new voice actors, nothing has topped Kermit the Frog. After Jim Henson's death, Steve Whitmire was chosen, and after some hesitation, he accepted his new role. He put his own spin on the character, turning Kermit into a more lighthearted yet just as witty character, complete with a perfectly recognizable and equally iconic higher pitch. Nintendo has been doing the same with Martinet's retirement. Each of the Italian tradesmen is still voiced by one man, Kevin Afghani (Waluigi has not appeared in a voices role since Martinet's retirement), who doesn't try to sound like Martinet. He adopts a more whimsical tone to match modern Mario games
If change wasn't such a risky a thing for every audience to adapt to this wouldn't be as much as an issue, but when most people have so much stuff to do outside of entertainment, they end up just not seeing the worth in the risk and sticking to what they have.
I think thats why we see some studios rebooting their franchises or having sequel arcs and sagas, it makes the IP stay in the market but at the same time you dont have so many rules to follow. Not that all the time is good but its a good idea You can have room for new ideas without restraining the writing team so much
Then there is the argument of "is a show really good if everything suddenly goes because the new writers just retcon things through new remakes or similar. Or Is it just a proof of unable to letting something good end that prob should and instead creating something new.
It all depends if we have people who gives a shit. If they dont they will fuck it up for everyone. Best example is recent avatar last air bender live action show. It is going to be as bad maybe worse as first time around. If someone who don't understand the show or property will ruin it badly. You got have someone who understands and gave a damn to pull that off.
not a cartoon but for a videogame, rocksteady ruined the batman ip by making suicide squad, partly because the rocksteady known for the batman games are NOT the ones that made suicide squad@@Geddn
9:15 This is something that gets lost with how much religion has been phased out of most television in the modern era. The Simpsons are bad Christians and that's supposed to be an element of their overall disfunction and relatability. Ned doesn't feel the urge to skip church, or swear, or gamble, or sin at all. He's not just a good Christian, he's free of temptation in a comical way. In the 80's, Christianity was the norm in America and mocking it or having characters in family sitcoms be overtly sinful wasn't at all the norm. Times changed and Ned's piety went from being something to be jealous of to something to be mocked as American society has become less conservative, more diverse, and more secular. It essentially went from "Wow, this guy likes going to church every week? He's such a better person than Homer!" to "Wow, this guy likes going to church every week? What a kooky weirdo!"
My problem with the current Simpsons is exactly what you mentioned: they became vague caricatures of who they were, and the show has become more of a celebrity showcase than a family show with heart and more-than-occasional social commentary. Like, Homer from the first seasons isn't a bad father, he is a man who tries his best but gets distracted, but you can tell that he loves his family and wants the best for them, often at the cost of his own happiness and comfort ("Do it for her" is still one of the most beautifully heartwarming and heartbreaking moments in the show). Bart from the first seasons isn't a bad kid; his pranks aren't malicious, he's just mischievous, but you can tell he wants to be better even if he isn't sure how to do it ("Bart gets an F" shows you that he tried, he really did, it's just that the school system isn't built for kids like him). And you can do that for any of the other characters. I feel like more shows should take a page out of the Gravity Falls book: that show had two incredible seasons with a tight-knit story, didn't overstay its welcome, and is still regarded as one of the best cartoons in modern history, because they had the end in sight. When you have a destination, it's very rare for you to meander and get lost.
To me the biggest hint that a show has run its course is when the focus shifts the supporting cast to more than the main characters themselves. Example is at one point in the Simpsons the show could have been renamed Springfield, because the Simpsons family were not the focus. It felt like they were there to witness the start of someone else’s story like the audience. Also the moment the Continuity is given a soft reset to make new stories. Etc Homer and marge meeting as kids at a summer camp, or SpongeBob with camp coral. If you are gonna change important parts of the continuity, you have to give it a hard restart. Honestly something like the Simpsons could do with a hard reset and change up the art style. Breathe new life into the show.
Honestly, I don't think that's a bad thing to do every once in a while. I think that would only be bad if it happens too much. Like, say an episode of The Simpsons focusing on Ned Flanders. Okay, that's fine, just return to the Simpsons next week. Keep the show about the main character, but every once in a while, yeah, I'd be curious what an episode about that one guy that only appeared twice would be like.
@@CageBlack1443 I agree, i like seeing the supporting cast get more character development. I remember as a teen is getting to a stage where the main simpsons cast were in the episodes less and less. its completely fine if its every once and a while but not all the time. earlier episodes they were more involved in the plot when it was a supporting characters episode.
Conversely, I wouldn't mind if they just let the characters grow up. Having the kids finally be teenagers would at least open up more story possibilities. Although admittedly that advice works better for a more grounded show, like Bob's Burgers.
To me what bugs me a lot about a lot of newer episodes of shows is the bright AF colors. Seariously watching season 1 SpongeBob vs whatever the new season is the colors are eye piercing same with the Simpsons it just looks too perfect
@@texasroze2371 same bro! I have noticed the Dragon ball franchise bouncing from DB’s plushy celluloid comedy, to DBZ’s Bollywood style celluloid drama, to GT’s earthy and edgy celluloid fights, to Kai’s goofy digital intro, to Super’s over-saturated digital slice of life moments, to Daima’s awe-inspiring digital pastel trailer.
I am 39, and watch, anime, cartoons since memorie have, and is not only sponge Bob, is in general, now eveirthing is not only brigther, but everithing is over the tops, and i remember a video expalning, that is so sad and funny, the color scheme is the same they make when they dont make it too brith, or the color are stronger, i miss old art, in western cartoon the colors werent so brigth but have the draw more detail in shadows and movement, in anime the colors were brither but there were consistent and was not so over the top with the acction. I miss old times when looks like everyone have an idea, and was consistent, now eveirthing try to be the new sensation and go overboard
And then, there's Arthur and Cyberchase. Arthur ran for 25 seasons before it ended its run and Cyberchase is still on the air after 22 years, 14 seasons and the death of Gilbert Gottfried.
I honestly believe that The SpongeBob Movie should’ve been the swan song for that show. It would’ve been literally the perfect ending and when I rewatch the show now I stop there and pretend that’s when it ended. 😂
That's the point the show's creator wanted the series to end. Nickelodeon were more interested in making money/milking its success than respecting his wishes though.
@@LoveMusic-123 "SpongeBob should end after the movie" was never one of his wishes. Also, I feel like had the show ended after the first movie, it would be both a good and lost cause (more on the former if you ask me).
The first movie was supposed to be the series finale. The show was cancelled. But the movie launched the show to new heights so Nickelodeon renewed it and it sadly has never been cancelled again since
Many people say that when a show goes beyond a fifth,sixth or tenth season,that's when a show becomes bad but I honestly disagree.In my opinion,the most certain period that a show should be finished is the period in the writers strongly start to run out of ideas,and this is a problem that can happen even before a fourth season or a 100th episode.
I agree but I'd also point out shows where season 5/6 was their peak and everything else was kind of chasing that original high. Often times though they'll bring in new writers too keep the show running if the network/studio sees fit
A typical single story has three arcs. With five seasons, you have 1,3,5 being the beginning, middle, and end and more specifically seasons 2 and 4 being transitions into them so the shift from an objective to another don't feels so sudden. Of course, if the whole thing hinges on a very limited premise you shouldn't even make a second one. 5 seasons isn't a universal thing, it's a limitation, because after five seasons you will struggle to come up with a new objective for the characters and be lost in the scramble.
I think it depends of the structure of the show. Some shows are so serialized that they can come up with new plots that are totally unique even in the later seasons. A lot of actions animes are like this. And on the opposite side of the spectrum we've got shows so unserialized that they can make as many seasons as they want without ever stopping. Some famous Sitcoms like Always Sunny in Philadelphia fall into this category.
Everyone still loves SouthPark despite it going on so long. So either it somehow broke the curse of long running shows or it's fans just don't care and ignore the decay. I think it's a bit of both but what do you think.
Extremely random and unrelated but I’m watching this video with my 6 year old little niece in the room, and she goes “why is the man in the video pretending to speak in a bad Jamaican accent?” And it threw me completely off LOL. I’m sorry about her, Mark. Excellent video. Just wanted to share that funny moment haha. ❤
I hope Mark does a video on Adventure Time. That show is actually really amazing. It starts off all silly & goofy but later on it goes over life lessons and relationship advice. It tackles real world issues in its own way and the later seasons are filled with wisdom and emotional maturity.
About the topic of Voice Actors aging, Peter Cullen comes to mind. He's 82 and still doing voice work. Was once again Optimus and was in Invincible. He seems to really still enjoy doing it but I always worry at this point if doing "the" voice, the one he got inspiration for from his brother, is straining .
And then there's Masako Nozawa, who is like 87 years old and is still voicing Goku. While I may have my own gripes with her performance, the fact that she's still voice acting that intense of a character without her age affecting her performance is just insane!
This is why I sorta wish that Family Guy remained cancelled by Fox if it had never been renewed by Fox it would have been fondly remembered as a nice cult classic.
Personally, I think while Bob's Burgers has been on longer than expected or some people don't think it's at funny as it used to be, I at least appreciate it for sticking to what it's good at. Like, besides one episode where the family goes to Florida to visit Linda's in-laws, the show mostly takes place in their town and the surrounding area, which I really appreciate
The thing about the Krusty Krab improving over the years like you mentioned around 11:30 I think has a bit more meaning. It used to be run down and I think SpongeBob’s presence elevated it to where it is in newer episodes.
One show that somehow hasn’t started to show fatigue is Bobs Burgers. I’m so happy that they kept all the characters as actual characters and are still developing them. Season 14 has been really good actually and I have massive respect for the writers for keeping up such a consistent bar when it comes to writing the show.
Bob's Burgers is kinda in this weird position where it's not really declining, but it's hard to say it hasn't gotten a bit formulaic and stale. I think I only saw it up to season 12, but while the episodes were all passable, there was little to nothing that surprised me, either. Which is better in some ways than just becoming hard to watch, but still kinda disappointing.
One thing i think that causes shows to fladerize their characters is when characters stop growing up. Instead of making them into better versions of themselves writers either change or start getting lazy and eventually it makes them lesser and it either goes into a process of relearning everythinf they already learned. Or- it falls into a cycle of emptyness with little depth with the characters.
For me, it’s just simply the overused and endless Status Quo is God trope. That’s what killed off the Fairly OddParents in the end. They never wanted that show to go into a permanent serialized route.
I'm surprised you didn't mention Regular Show, which I'd argue hits most of these marks. It clearly had fatigue as it went on, going from being wacky to being all about will they wont theys with Mordecai, CJ, and Margaret, the flanderization of the characters, and the "jump the shark" moment with the dome in season 7, and space in season 8.
Well, thankfully the show did get a proper conclusion and it ended on a rather good note. So at least the showrunners knew the right moment of when to stop making more episodes.
The show had a proper conclusion and was always bat shit insane, so can you really consider jumping the shark? In the show that a basketball god shows up, and there is a horse that needs to pass a history test, so the earth doesn't blow up
@@gabsnandes7818 those aren't really considered jumping the shark moments, since they're very regular things for Regular Show to have in every other episode. The dome arc had its own special which was honestly, very boring, and the space arc took up all of season 8. You don't really just go from love plots and episodes involving serious relationships, to a storyline about a dome encasing the park, and then going to space, like that. That, and the whole rebranding with season 8 was that Regular Show WAS in space.
@hankenthusiast6187 I also thought it was kinda boring, but in all honesty, I don't view as a jumping the shark moment, since it doesn't feel to out of place since it's Regular Show you know?
I enjoy how the amazing world of gumball handled voice actors getting too old and switching out a new one Whare it was a running home that the characters voice changed and all the characters around them noticed it except for the character itself and then it just moved on like nothing happened after it
As a kid, I was a huge fan of Jimmy Neutron, and for the longest time I was so upset and resentful that it got so little airtime and was cancelled after only 4-5 seasons. But now? I guess there's a silver lining to it. Everyone who loved it remembers it as a fantastic show, rather than a dilapidated shell of its former self that went on for too long.
BRINGING UP GREYS WAS SO RANDOM BUT I LOVE IT it's such a good case study, i adored the show before like season 11 but it's downfall is horrible. glad you analyzed it for an audience like yours who probably doesnt even care about it
@@noah_farmer100% so many ppl say it fell off when Derick died but that’s just not true😂 end of s13-14 was where you could tell the quality had went down
Well there's a good guide one can use for such a thing. You have shows like KOTH and Regular Show which were long running but ended just when the creators wanted them to, and shows like The Simpsons and Family Guy where they've gone on so long you'd wish they'd been cancelled years ago. Then you have your odd man outs like Clerks The Animated Series or something like that which got cancelled way too quickly.
Or be like Phineas and ferb and Futurama were there gone for a while and then come back through some circumstances [more so Futurama than Phineas and ferb]
@@jadenbryant9283 Oh yeah those are another 2 outliers. Phineas and Ferb was on forever but was considered beloved enough to keep around. Kinda like a Scooby-Doo of sorts The Mouse can just keep bringing it back at random in different forms. Futurama on the other hand just can't be kept down. Not due to lack of trying by networks though. It just doesn't want to die unless it's on its own terms.
south park is kind of another outlier. it's lowest lows aren't nearly as low as its contemporaries have sunk to, and being partly built around satire lets it be perpetually fueled by real world events
I really like what they did with Malcolm in the Middle. Since it’s live action, the characters are going to age, and I think that helps make it enjoyable. It gives more you can do with the characters. Like 12 year old Malcolm isn’t going to have to make the same decisions as an older, 16 year old Malcolm, and so it makes the change in the character feel a lot more natural and less forced
That’s why I mostly roll my eyes or get annoyed when people beg for shows to get more seasons like it wasn’t enough for them shows such as gravity falls amphibia and the owl house like I get it I would like another season to but you have to move on now
Especially when you have shows like Wander over Yonder, Inside Job, and Mao Mao that were just cancelled and never got the chance to finish thier stories because they were treated poorly by the network/platform they were on.
Whenever a creator or cast member leaves a popular show, that should be a massive sign that a series is gonna change massively, often times for the worst, need I remind y’all of community season 4(aka the gas leak years).
@@Nelvinkumar Ah yes. The most iconic TV family of all time: *h o k e r* and his wife *m i r g e* Who who could forget about their children,such as the mischevious *b o r t* the intelligent *l u s a* and the baby *m e g g i e*
It feels like these days, cartoons (or TV shows in general) have one or two choices for how long shows can last: either it ends after two seasons with a few dozen episodes or lasts forever and a day.
Not going to lie, South Park is still going strong despite its 27-year long run. Its lowest lows are still just fine, so it’s amazing how it managed to stay so good for so long.
what helps is that the creators Matt and Trey are still involved in the show, which means that the characters can't be flanderized since they know everything about the character and can make sure that they're consistent
I think a show that’s hard not to mention when it comes to shows lasting a long time is Doctor Who With a total of 39 complete seasons (if you add all the seasons of classic and nuwho together) over the span of 60 years, with a 40th season on the way, the show is designed in a way to go one forever. Sure there have been a few rough spots (chibnall bad) but it’s still managed to stick around after all these years
Yeah but one could also argue that it's hardly even the same show anymore. Literally everything besides the premise of an alien traveling in time has changed. The look, personality, and morals of the main character, the tone, the continuity, the lore, they never stays the same. Even those things I mentioned as being part of the premise have changed over time. At some point the Doctor was written as part human, in the 3rd doctor's era he was stuck on earth so the time and space adventures were really limited. Even the idea of the Doctor being a Time Lord with a set amount of faces has been called into question, we currently don't know who the Doctor is anymore or where he/she comes from. So yeah, the show really does go on forever but it's the kind of show that makes you question: How much can you change for the show to still be the same show? Is OG Doctor Who the same show as the one today or is it closer to a different show altogether?
@@Obi-Wan_Kenobi doctor who has a very loose relationship with its own canon, even if something is presented as a hard rule that can never be broken, that is only true for as long as the show's writers at that specific moment stay around to remember it. 2005 nuwho vs 2024 nuwho really is a fundamentally, completely different show made by entirely different people, and it shows. the more you think about the lore it presents, the more you try to take the show seriously and believe what it tells you, the less sense anything makes. contradictions are absolutely everywhere. but the show is ALSO constantly so self-obsessed as to repeatedly remind everyone that this is supposedly the same character and canon as the show that began in the 60s, which only makes these discrepancies more obvious and strange. i love doctor who but i honestly think it might actually benefit from a full-on lore reset. reboot the entire universe and timeline. "the timeless child" might have even worked, people might have even accepted that, if they didn't try to crowbar that idea into a canon that very explicitly did not accommodate it. or at the very least, lay off the constant nostalgia pandering if you can't maintain the internal consistency to keep it believable. i understand that the "same character forever" thing is part of the show's identity, but at this point "having an utterly nonsensical and wildly contradictory lore" is too.
@@Obi-Wan_KenobiI mean I would still says the structure is still the same the doctor and whatever companion go to a Planet or certian time period or whatever settle in in its environment for a bit they find out something off turnes out its a monster or the daleks or whatever and have to find a way to stop it
@@DELTARYZeh your opinion I personally think doctor who shouldn't reboot I think this video will explain it better than I potentially could ruclips.net/video/gSS8Pty4ZoIo/видео.htmluld
The show Heroes really laid the foundation for how a TV shows lifespan goes. It starts out good, then slowly gets worse and worse until everyone is relieved that it finally ends.
@@magikphoenix140 Especially in DR-hell some characters have come full circle imo. If they were to die at any point now, I’d be content (as long as the death way good ie Iron Man)
South Park still running strong after 27 years . New Seasons are still good and the specials have been awesome. Crazy how this series has been going for almost 30 years and managed to never miss or have a bad season .
Shows like South Park, family guy, and the Simpsons were the best when they opened an episode with the immediate cast sitting on the couch or standing around.
@@paperluigi6132Patrick Dempsey (who plays Derek Shepherd) is very much alive lol. So is James Pickens Jr. the guy said mark died in the video. He’s one of two original cast members left in the upcoming 20th season
I like how the show Monk just…stopped. One episode they wrapped up the mysteries and walked off the air while still being decently popular. Good ending.
Why is Mark so much nicer to Spongebob like everytime he says something negative about it he has to prefix "Now I'm not trying to say its bad if you like it that's fine!" but not for any other show.
Now that I think about it, It's Always Sunny never really went through any of the tropes mentioned in this video. The closest we get was when it looked like Dennis was going to leave the gang because Glenn Howerton was in another show at the time, and he was going to be replaced by Mindy Kaling, but even that was making fun of shows that have done the same thing. Not to mention, Dennis still remained on the show after that.
Don’t get me wrong. It is sad when I show ends. But when it never ends? Oh man. It just feels like a rinse and repeat. When it concludes you feel grown attach to the characters and their world. If it doesn’t end, you get bored. But I totally get the business of it. Yes. I’m glad to hear animators enjoying their jobs on the shows they work on. But it comes a time and place where your story just needs an ending. And usually when that happens, the animators will always find a new thing to work on
Flanderization is the major aspect that really hammers a show to where the characters...kinda have to be the same otherwise they are alienated by the audience, one show that i think makes it work or knows it well to the point of avoiding it is South Park, Trey and Matt i feel know how long they have been going and know how to make their characters work so they use the obvious tropes and make episodes they try to push the envelope on what the networks allow versus what they wont allow, which i think makes them so much more appreciated then Family Guy or The Simpsons does as these shows both feel like they are pumping out stories that just feel like dead air or to fill the run time they have been given so those watching it will notice the jokes being flat or uninteresting stories, like the only thing worth noting in recent Family Guy in the last few years was that Lois's VA bloodcurdling scream for a episode that when you watch it back it's not really funny but her performance was one of the best portions of acting that any have seen come out from it. Its honestly sad these are the outcomes but at the same time the only release of these shows will see is if the network will pay for continuation or how long many will watch.
A really cool idea whould be to start a show where the characters first follow a tipical stereotype and also have your tipical happy go lucky villain not much of treat, maybe starting the show around the mid 2010's and as time goes on the humour and personalities of the characters evolve maybe you could base the creator own process of aging to make It more realistic, you whould be able to make a long cartoon because as times goes on there are more possible scenarios to make and also It whould be cool to see the main characters slowly as they age grow more distant and dont hang out as often so you could make more one character centric episode, and at the end just see the gang split up and go their own ways to grow and make more memories as they whould be tired of only being around themselfs (the villain can be defeated some time before that to aslo give conclusion to them)
Kind of in this vein, Steven Universe had a time skip after the formal "ending" for a movie and bonus series. Not really aging as it went on but still incorporating that idea
Adventure Time is literally that. Season 1 starts when he's like 11 years old and then the final season celebrates his 17th birthday at one point. Then when the Fionna and Cake spinoff was released we got to see him as a huge gigachad adult man.
For a long time it was incredible but nowadays in my opinion it’s mostly middle of the road. Some episodes are still good but it’s mostly mixed for me.
I think it's because of Matt and Trey, those guys are just really funny unironically, the show changing (I mean watch a season 1, season 6, season 11, season 16, season 21, and a season 26 episode they're all completely different from each other) their more topical nature, and the fact they are petty in a really funny way, like the episode Whale Whores, that was a real show they're making fun of and like no one remembers that show, but Matt and Trey saw it and thought, "This is bullshit nothing is going on."
I don't like shows that don't have an end point. It would be great to have more tv shows that tell a complete story from start to finish in 1-3 seasons. Every episode feels way more impactful that way.
It's hard for me to comprehend that there was a single person who was not only as invested in Family Guy as to feel it was cataclysmic to kill off Brian, but also actually believe it was an actual lasting change.
I feel your pain with Grey's Anatomy. My mother is OBSESSED with the show so it's on almost 24/7 so you can definitely see when the Fonz is on the water skis. You can even predict Plot Twists episodes in advance. And how you feel about Callie, I feel about Izzie and ARIZONA. I hate Arizona so much. As for the rest of the video, I agree. A good performer knows when its best to get off the stage. A lot of the shows that have been on for decades need to let the show go entirely or maybe do what The Walking Dead did. The original show jumped the shark when they added Negan but with the spin offs, they made just enough wiggle room to recover, in my opinion. Letting shows go opens the door for new excellent ones to be introduced and to have a fighting chance of getting more than 2 seasons without a huge fight first.
Trey and Matt did 1 right thing, when They Felt South Park run it's course, they stopped after Season 23. When they felt like short Returns, they did 2 Specials, when they found their Joy again, they returned (also $900 Million Deal with Paramount, who could say no) and it felt once again like the better times of South Park
They didn't actually stop they couldn't really continue working at the time because of the Pandemic which screwed up their schedule making Season 24 the shortest in their show's history which resulted in them now doing shorter seasons altogether
I honestly think something that is so underrated when it comes to TV shows is when a show ends after a few seasons. I can appreciate a show like The Good Place, Fleabag, or Ted Lasso that get really popular but make the decision to end the show on their terms when they are done telling the story.
12:50 I don't think the shows ever got to a seasonal rot-era, but I remember not liking the King of Queens and 3rd Rock from the Sun endings because they gave the audience what they wanted, but I wanted to see more. They did things that would've otherwise wildly changed the dynamic of the characters and I would've been interested to see how the characters adjusted to the different circumstances. I think it would've been interesting to keep that continuity and see what they could've done with it.
Sadly there are quite many of theeeemmah, probably for the sake of prolonging the videoooo-uh. *Skip the Tutorial* (Minecraft RUclipsr), for exampooollah.
I got whiplash when you brought up Friends, wouldn’t expect someone like you to know about the show’s lore that much😭 but a good point you made up. Their trope was PAINFUL to watch when binging the show.
Honestly I find a perfectly fine for a show to keep going this longer as long as the characters still have the same dynamic and the shows quality still hold up and if you want to introduce new characters and make small changes towards the status quo that’s perfectly fine and I believe South Park is the only show that succeeds in doing that.🐱
Boy Meets World is an interesting case because while you can definitely point out some aspects of rot and hints that the show was maybe going on too long, it still had a great idea for how to prolong itself. What do you do when you cant stop the main character from aging? You make that the focal point of the show. I don't agree with everything they made Cory do and there were times when his decisions felt too juvenile for where he was supposed to be in his life, but i do think it's a solid example of keeping the show fresh while still trying to maintain the core of why the show got popular to begin with. I also think the tonal shift makes perfect sense. Things aren't as happy go lucky when you get older and you have to deal with real serious drama that you might not be ready for. And that's ok
The biggest red flag I notice is when a show goes on for so long that grown-up fans of it increasingly begin working on the staff to the point where the show becomes Fanservice: the Show and nothing else.
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ehh.. nah...
Maybe if you hit the thug shake
I don't care man
Will you be the skibidi to my toilet?!?!
Love from saudi arabia!
"You can't have happy endings in sitcoms, not really, because if everyone's happy, the show would be over, and above all else, the show... has to keep going," - BoJack Horseman.
Amen 🙏🏾
One of my favorite lines in the whole show.
I don't remember that quote but I love that show. Bojack Horseman is a good example of a show that had just enough seasons (maybe one season too few) and never stopped being true to itself.
In practice that quote is ridiculous, I've seen sitcoms that had good endings and still had many people liking it
@@angryvaultguy You don't get the quote. The quote is talking about how the show can't end because it pays the animators and voice actors, and eveybody working on the show. The quote says nothing about liking the show, but it's talking about how it must go on.
Out of all the cartoons that went through seasonal rot, fairly odd parents was the worst. What’s worse is that they had multiple opportunities to call and quit, but by the time it was permanently canceled, just about half its runtime was seasonal rot.
Ive heard rumors that the series was originally supposed to end at Season 5 with the Power Hour 3 but then Nickelodeon ordered 20 more episodes for Season 6 with introduction of Baby Poof.
@@ludd4411 there is definite proof of that by the way, Hartman publicly announced FOP being canceled at episode 80 (JTPH 3/Fairy Idol)
I caught a later-season episode and one of the sight gags was a reference to Extreme Makeover: Home Edition. I thought to myself: that joke is gonna age like milk. The only people I knew who watched EMHE were old people.
I was full expecting the girl character, Chloe to be a good way for kids to understand depression or anxiety. Like, sure she has a happy outlook but maybe have an episode where wishes just don’t make her happy or something. And it’s like “yeah, some days I just don’t feel happy. And I don’t want to leave my room. Is that okay?” And they could have. But nope. They absolutely ruin the rule that godparents go to miserable kids.
Ray DeLaurentis was the main reason why FOP had gone to shit
I think flanderization plays a big role in cartoons.
Shows start to lose their grip when the characters become stereotypes of what they were initially.
Exactly. Once the writers start going for more guest stars and low hanging jokes over character development and world building, they might as well pull the plug. I think that's why I was disappointed with the recent season of Futurama.
@@Collins_Coldit wasn’t even 3 sentences long!
Maybe the study of an average attention span being lower than a gold fish was right
Goku😢
makes me glad gravity falls ended in the right place.
I heard someone make a great point one time about modern SpongeBob: it just looks like every single frame is trying to be a viral meme.
They leaned into what it a the internet clicked with then.
With all the spongebob memes that have blown up, we only have ourselves to blame.
The faces. The exaggerated faces all the time....
the studio can't seem to comprehend that all the memes came from BEFORE season 4, except for that spongebob chicken template.
99% of post-movie spongebob is not worthy of remembering
its not just that but you're not wrong. spongebob posts episodes on youtube/youtube kids now so they're focusing heavily to appeal to younger kids. most kids on youtube are ipad kids who need constant stimulation to hold their attention. the spongebob writers are now focusing on young children while also attempting to keep old fans satisfied by bringing back one-off characters.
I loved your point about the show not feeling "real" anymore because it's such a subtle critique but it's so true. I too feel that at some point, these long running shows begin to feel less real. The best way I can describe it is the show becomes somewhat self-aware, it's aware of how culturally impactful and iconic it is. And because it's aware of its importance, the characters aren't written as just another piece of that show, they are written with an acute awareness of how the audience will react to them.
Now the writers know that the audience has certain expectations and in trying to meet those expectations, the writing begins to feel self-aware. I'm not talking about a self-referential sort of self awareness (although that can start happening too), I'm talking about a scene perhaps being framed in a certain way because the writers expect it to be iconic or a character does something arbitrary because the writers are checking a box for familiar character trait.
An example of this is Vegeta. In the first few seasons of DBZ, his character, introduction, and role in the plot were so raw and natural. He was another in a long line of villains turned rivals and his journey felt organic and real. But now, the cultural expectation is that Vegeta will always be Goku's rival because he's so iconic, that rivalry is part of Dragon Ball's identity. As a result, the show never introduces a new rival to replace Vegeta. They always have Vegeta fill the same role in new DB as Goku's sideman because they need to check that box. But this feels weird and less "real" because logically, Vegeta would have been replaced by a new rival at this point like Tien and Piccolo were before him. Old Vegeta was written so we never knew what he was going to do. But modern Vegeta is written so we know exactly what he'll do.
Another example is Super Saiyan vs Ultra Instinct. When SS was introduced, no one realized this was about to become one of the most famous power-ups in all of fiction. It was introduced with nothing but faith in the concept and its role in the story. But Ultra Instinct was created with the goal of replicating the enthrallment viewers felt with when seeing SS for the first time. SS was well written and just so happened to become the next big thing. But Ultra Instinct, conversely, was explicitly designed to be the next big thing. That's what I mean when I say it's self-aware.
The end result is that the show loses the rawness, the "realness" that it originally had. When the show was first made, the creators had no idea what was going to stay in the cultural consciousness, what scenes, gags, character, settings were going to become part of popular culture. They were going in totally blind. But now the writers feel the need to meet certain expectations, to hit certain check boxes, because they know what the audiences expects. It makes certain choices feel arbitrary, like the writers are winking at the audience because they know what they want. The show isn't exploring new, uncharted territory anymore, it's going through the familiar because it has to meet familiar audience expectations.
As a massive dragon ball nerd, I completely get this. Like, I loved the Super Hero Movie, but Gohan's Beast Transformation was such a nostalgia bait move, they weren't even hiding it with the design.
I don't know, I'm kinda conflicted on Modern Dragonball, but the latest manga chapter is looking good, and I hope Daima doesn't rely too much on nostalgia
well said Obi-Wan
Well said. Vegeta has no business being there, he's not interesting like in the beginning, not important like in Namek saga, he doesn't even irritate me as much as during the Cell saga. I didn't like the Buu arc and its version of Vegeta didn't exactly speak to my heart, but at least he made me feel something, even if it was irritation. But now? Why is he even in the story other than selling merch? It's a genuine question, I dropped Super around the Tournament of Power. They even retconned his famous "You're better than me" speech, the only thing that made his presence in that arc justified. The role of a rival is temporary, eventually Goku will try to find someone stronger to become better himself, and that's fine, that's why we love him, and Vegeta still occupying this role now doesn't make sense. I mean, the idea of someone growing in strength alongside Goku isn't bad, it's the same basic idea Goku's relationship with Krillin used to have. But that would be a role of a friend, and we can't have Vegeta growing past his teenage rebellious phase and accepting Goku as his genuine friend, his merch might stop making money.
They had this problem with Piccolo and for a long time struggled with finding a place for him in the story, but they ultimately did. He has his own unique role that feels natural for his journey and if I had to guess, his merch is making more money than ever before. I know I would much rather buy his figurine now than ever before. But he's about the only one. As much as I love Dragon Ball, it reached its natural ending point years ago
For me i stop caring, for me dragon ball, was good the first season, the original dragon ball, z was already bad, and i hate ok respect for Toriyama he work in so many good works, he create an art stile, but you cant lie, i am sorry but, dragon ball has not been good since the original, you mention Vegeta, not feeling real, i stop watching the serie, but the moment in the movie, one of the memes is that Vegeta cant win, cant be superior or have an important moment beyond some gimick, and when in the movie against Freeze he was going to have his revenge an iconic moment and no, Goku has to kill it, or iwn, why, he admit that Goku was the best, he is superior, and then they revert it and back like nothing, not to mention all the characters basicly banish, on the ether, for me dragon ball should have end in z, but now Goku is basicly retarded, Vegeta is nothing more than Gokus rival, and that is it, why they dont end it already, figths wich in early dragon ball feel intense, now are powers, after power, the dragon balls, the reason the serie is call like that become second thougth, in the first serie were these magical and mistical artifact wars erupt for controling now being meh, also how you can challenge gods, what i said gods, titans, they are challenging titans and death is an after tougth who cares, i hate people praising dragon ball and all the derivates with invinsible characters and saying no they are not op, the only character i show some moment of care in modern shonen was Rebecca for the premise she being a regular human, who gets tired, and can be hurt, yes a normal human, i remember in terrible writting advice he show a graf, and he in his sarcastic way, saying but people love op characters and love mi invinsible character, and the graf show one side all powerful superman he cant die and the other a regular human and put how much i can relate and how an op character feels alien, that is mi problem with modern anime in general, specialy shonen, because shonen in the past could be sports, racing and many others ideas, now is always super heroes or isekai
I’d say the opposite actually to describe it myself. It’s essentially what you described. I’d say that the long running shows end up feeling too real and lose their magic. At the end of the day these shows are supposed to be an escape from our world as we submerge ourselves into theirs. I think that’s basically what you mean when you say it becomes self-aware. An example I’d give of this is around 2012 for the Simpsons. I’d say around this time period they were still watchable. Once they started giving characters social media personas and phones is when I started drawing the line cause it didn’t feel right. This is what I mean by them now trying to keep up and stay hip, trying to mimic our world when it should be the opposite.
Sometimes I forget the fact Grey’s Anatomy is still going on, and yet somehow I still don’t know what the heck show is even about anymore for it to go this long.
As someone whose wife loves that show, Maribeth is now working on a cure from Alzheimer's despite being a general surgeon she is now somehow qualified to lead this. Only 3 of the original cast is still there and I believe her husband's ex wife is back in the show now as well so maybe 4 of the original cast as she was a big part in the first few seasons before her spin off
My wife who is a Grey's Anatomy ride or die doesn't even keep up with the new seasons since almost every character introduced prior to the last five years has been phased out one way or another.
i just started watching it for the first time and made it up to the covid season before stopping. 💔 the new cast are randoms. i would rather rewatch from the beginning at this point 😭
My mom stopped watching it. It’s gotten THAT repetitive
It still IS?
As a kid, it always confused me when cosmo would interact with Timmy's dad and crocker. Like, wasn't one of the shows biggest rules that fairy godparents *couldn't* be seen by other people or they would lose them forever?
And wasn’t Crocker’s whole thing trying to prove that faries are real?
I stopped watching the show when Sparky first appeared, but even then, it was starting to show that the writers stopped caring about the rules *_THEY CREATED!!_*
That’s been bugging me. Does anyone know how they explain it in universe?
Seconding the 'do they explain this in-universe' question because seriously, is there an explanation or do they just act like everything's fine?
When they go back on something major, that's where it's a problem. For example, in an earlier episode, it's shown that Crocker was a good kid that lost his fairies because of Timmy, meaning Timmy created his arch-enemy. In a later episode, they show Crocker was always a jerk and lost his fairies on his own. Not nearly as interesting
Lesson from the life of an animator:
"If you are going to hire a writer for your cartoon(or the cartoon you direct),make sure he cares about your show and always check what he writes on paper before the episode enters the project and airs,and of course you know when it's time to finish."
15:37
I'm impressed Julie Kavner can even speak anymore, with how wrecked her vocal cords are
This. In the handful of recent episodes I've seen, Marge Simpson is painful to listen to now.
@@TurquoiseStar17 Yeah, Julie Kavner belatedly has to retire for good due to how wrecked her vocal cords are.
With nearly 35 years of voice over work for the show, my fear is that they'll end up using the recordings and AI to replicate her voice.
Poor Julie Kavner
tbf she is choosing to do it actively it's not like she's being forced to
Spongebob is so old in the german dub we already lost the voice of Mr. Krabs, Plankton, Squidward because they died, Patrick's voice was replaced becsuse he wanted more money and the voice of Mrs. Puff has retired.
These are things I feel can kill a series. Some of which you mentioned:
1. Of course going on for to long. Aside from the issue of staleness, there are other things that simply come with that effect.
2. Giving a mostly episodic series a more plot centered focus. A lot of series handle this right and I actually encourage this. But when later episodes focus a bit more on heavier plot impacted elements, I feel it can disrupt the overall flow. Like how in Regular Show when they brought in the dome and scientist. It changed the feel of the show and kinda dulled the impact brought from the randomness of an episodic series.
3. Simply changing or removing to much. Like Fairly Oddparents. Removed old characters, brought in new ones WAY to late into the series run.
4. A sudden change in staff. Not always a bad thing, but take Rick and Morty for example. Dan brought in more writers for the sake of “equality” without considering the fact that those not directly connected to the show and it’s team may not be the best for such a consistent series.
5. And probably the easiest and worst one to screw up, forgetting the fundamentals. Of course, SpongeBob. They insisted on making almost every character equally unlikable. To the point where someone as dull and empty as Squidward became seen as the exception.
Diversity quotas are the death of most things
wokeness would be a 6th reason, though it's way more prevalent in movies and videogames at the moment than in animated shows@@RESIST_DIGITAL_ID_UK
@@RESIST_DIGITAL_ID_UK Disney's 100th year is the prime example of that!
It's "too", not "to".
You forgot to mention one important one.
6. Milking a franchise to the point it gets uninteresting. The Loud House used to be a hit or miss show. But after Chris Savino got fired from Nickelodeon. The show had a massive drop in quality. The later seasons ( 4 to 7 ) were proof of that .They made one spinoff called The Casagrandes in 2019. Than in 2021 a live action Christmas movie got made regardless of the negative backlash it got when first announced back in 2020. Then in March 2022 Nickelodeon made one of the worst choices in the history of their network they ever made. A live action spinoff show and another season of the animated show ( the animated show was doing badly in the ratings at that point ) . 2023 had another live action train wreck movie , it flopped . 2024 is set to give another second season of that live action spinoff series. Thankfully, the animated series hasn't been renewed for another season in 2024. So let's hope Nickelodeon finally decides to cancel it for good.
Frank welker has been voicing fred from scooby doo for over 50 years since the og 1969 show
The man is in his late 70s, and he's still voice acting to this day.
@@michaelstrong5383 and is still doing quite a good job
@@jadenbryant9283 dude's a national treasure and must be protected at all costs. Much like Danny Devito
Wow that’s impressive.
And he's mostly been doing Scooby since Don Messick (the original) died 😭
God forbid Mark talk about one piece’s length.
To be fair that’s an adaptation of a currently unfinished story
It has more episodes than every single SpongeBob episode
Let’s just hope that he that doesn’t find out that the one piece is real.
@@UrBoyBruggs and that we can get much higher
Ls mark edges to skibidi toilet in Ohio😂😂😂
"Grey left with her anatomy like three seasons ago" is probably one of the sentences ever said.
It looks like someone (puts on sunglasses) just GREYzed your anatomy.
18:01 this singular frame breaks every single rule of the show what the hellll???
Why’s the Brian death edited like a 2010 ytp 💀
Bro really thought youtube is where the poop is
@@joeyravioliyes
@@joeyravioli so true
@@joeyravioli Well, thanks to channels like me, it still is!
@@joeyravioli SQAK SQAK SQAK SQAK SQAK SQAK.
The downfall of the Fairly Oddparents needs to be studied
Hey PigPig Can’t Wait For You To Make Another Creepypasta Tier List
Scientists will be pleased.
I don’t know know if anything will come of my research, but I very much intend to study this show from various angles. Some metrics I’d like to track are
Characters and number of lines/episodes,
types of Jokes and frequency over time,
Topics of interest, frequency and how it’s handled,
plot structure to see whether they are consistent across multiple episodes or confined to just one,
and
Staff and which era they were a part of, with each era defined by different staff or main aesthetic differences/goals unique to the era. It’s going to be a lot, but if anyone is interested in tracking that too and working on such a project, then it will be good for science to not be confined to the vague intentions of one person.
This is all in service to my wild hopes to understand the strengths and pitfalls of the original by studying its features objectively, writing several analytical works based on the research and then using that same knowledge to inform and strengthen the writing of my hypothetical reboot of the series. It will never be the exact same series, but capturing the heart of it by doing a proper autopsy seems like a good place to start.
It had a slot on my hypothetical game show, "Funny or Fetish?" Cosmo getting pregnant, is it FUNNY OR FETISH? And after that, we have the writer from Powerpuff Girls who self-inserted himself so he could ship himself with a girl who is canonically 5 years old, and all of Totally Spies.
@@ScrambledAndBenedict I hate to assume the worst, but I would not be too surprised if it was a fetish. Knowing the show’s sense of humor, though, I think it is an extension of “feminine man= funny” that usually leads to a bunch of crossdressing, gender nonconformity (Timmy and his dad being the ones who wear makeup in the family), and romantic attraction between men. This time though, instead it lead to trans man vibes instead of trans woman/effeminate gay vibes.
(with shows like this, they are conflated despite being distinct).
I know Cosmo’s a fairy and not human, but the pregnant man thing, while a fetish, is also an actual type of person.
Bobs burgers is the only long running show where the plot is less crazy every season
I do agree that Bobs Burgers “is” the most consistently good show on TV, but some of the season 10+ episodes are really boring. Everyone is starting to lose their personalities and all sound depressed which kinda fits the characters but is a problem when the main appeal of the show is the charming characters. It feels like the show is starting to slowly not care like every other long running show
I personally don't mind the slice-of-life episodes as Bob's Burgers went on, but I'd be lying if I said that there weren't some that left me bored. One specifically was when Bob was involved with multiple fender benders. It's not as exciting as it actually sounds.
The movie also wasn’t bad either
Bobs Burgers has over corrected and the show is so fucking drab and boring now. Borderline conflict-less, every episoce is a nothing burger devoid of jokes.
Bob's Burgers is the worst show currently on television, I remember watching a season 12 episode and I couldn't help but fall asleep while watching!
I hadn’t watched Bob’s Burgers in years but I used to be avid viewer and I went to the movie in theaters and I was completely shocked by how “soft” the characters became, especially Louise. S1 Louise would never spend an entire movie trying to prove she wasn’t a “baby.”
American Dad has really avoided the same drama all these other adult animations have. I guess that's because it's in two halves, the Fox era for 11 seasons and TBS era for 9 seasons. Because both share the workload, the characters evolve all over again to fit the new company's designs. TBS's style is to start an episode with a basic premise (eg, Francine likes ASMR) and ends with a ridiculously high stakes plot (Francine is absorbing Chernobyl radioactive waste). It's not the Fox structure but it works, and it's their way of keeping the show fresh
That does make sense. American Dad has always remained stable and fresh, and I like it much more than family guy. American Dad imo is Seth's Magnum opus.
American dad is my favorite show and the TBS era of it is awful.
When it comes to new voice actors, nothing has topped Kermit the Frog. After Jim Henson's death, Steve Whitmire was chosen, and after some hesitation, he accepted his new role. He put his own spin on the character, turning Kermit into a more lighthearted yet just as witty character, complete with a perfectly recognizable and equally iconic higher pitch.
Nintendo has been doing the same with Martinet's retirement. Each of the Italian tradesmen is still voiced by one man, Kevin Afghani (Waluigi has not appeared in a voices role since Martinet's retirement), who doesn't try to sound like Martinet. He adopts a more whimsical tone to match modern Mario games
If change wasn't such a risky a thing for every audience to adapt to this wouldn't be as much as an issue,
but when most people have so much stuff to do outside of entertainment, they end up just not seeing the worth in the risk and sticking to what they have.
Ls mark edges to skibidi toilet in Ohio😂😂😂
@@Bronny_James_is_GOATED Holy shit were you born yesterday?
I'm surprised a show like Adventure Time was able to go through such extreme changes and still stand strong
this is a good [ ] just not a good [ ] of [ ]
Yep
I think thats why we see some studios rebooting their franchises or having sequel arcs and sagas, it makes the IP stay in the market but at the same time you dont have so many rules to follow. Not that all the time is good but its a good idea
You can have room for new ideas without restraining the writing team so much
Then there is the argument of "is a show really good if everything suddenly goes because the new writers just retcon things through new remakes or similar. Or Is it just a proof of unable to letting something good end that prob should and instead creating something new.
It all depends if we have people who gives a shit.
If they dont they will fuck it up for everyone.
Best example is recent avatar last air bender live action show. It is going to be as bad maybe worse as first time around. If someone who don't understand the show or property will ruin it badly. You got have someone who understands and gave a damn to pull that off.
PPG and TTG are bad ways to do them, though
not a cartoon but for a videogame, rocksteady ruined the batman ip by making suicide squad, partly because the rocksteady known for the batman games are NOT the ones that made suicide squad@@Geddn
Making original material is an even better idea but ok.
*"Let it die, let it die. Let it shrivel up and die."*
- O'Hare
"you either die as hero or live long enough to become villian" Harvey Dent xD
"Come on, who's with me, huh?"
@@southparticle your dad
@@UrLoPi02 *_YOU GREEDY DIRTBAG_*
I thought we were singing the lyrics, did I bother someone? Sorry if I did
@@southparticle "no one"
9:15 This is something that gets lost with how much religion has been phased out of most television in the modern era. The Simpsons are bad Christians and that's supposed to be an element of their overall disfunction and relatability. Ned doesn't feel the urge to skip church, or swear, or gamble, or sin at all. He's not just a good Christian, he's free of temptation in a comical way. In the 80's, Christianity was the norm in America and mocking it or having characters in family sitcoms be overtly sinful wasn't at all the norm. Times changed and Ned's piety went from being something to be jealous of to something to be mocked as American society has become less conservative, more diverse, and more secular. It essentially went from "Wow, this guy likes going to church every week? He's such a better person than Homer!" to "Wow, this guy likes going to church every week? What a kooky weirdo!"
My problem with the current Simpsons is exactly what you mentioned: they became vague caricatures of who they were, and the show has become more of a celebrity showcase than a family show with heart and more-than-occasional social commentary.
Like, Homer from the first seasons isn't a bad father, he is a man who tries his best but gets distracted, but you can tell that he loves his family and wants the best for them, often at the cost of his own happiness and comfort ("Do it for her" is still one of the most beautifully heartwarming and heartbreaking moments in the show). Bart from the first seasons isn't a bad kid; his pranks aren't malicious, he's just mischievous, but you can tell he wants to be better even if he isn't sure how to do it ("Bart gets an F" shows you that he tried, he really did, it's just that the school system isn't built for kids like him). And you can do that for any of the other characters.
I feel like more shows should take a page out of the Gravity Falls book: that show had two incredible seasons with a tight-knit story, didn't overstay its welcome, and is still regarded as one of the best cartoons in modern history, because they had the end in sight. When you have a destination, it's very rare for you to meander and get lost.
To me the biggest hint that a show has run its course is when the focus shifts the supporting cast to more than the main characters themselves. Example is at one point in the Simpsons the show could have been renamed Springfield, because the Simpsons family were not the focus. It felt like they were there to witness the start of someone else’s story like the audience.
Also the moment the Continuity is given a soft reset to make new stories. Etc Homer and marge meeting as kids at a summer camp, or SpongeBob with camp coral. If you are gonna change important parts of the continuity, you have to give it a hard restart. Honestly something like the Simpsons could do with a hard reset and change up the art style. Breathe new life into the show.
Honestly, I don't think that's a bad thing to do every once in a while.
I think that would only be bad if it happens too much. Like, say an episode of The Simpsons focusing on Ned Flanders. Okay, that's fine, just return to the Simpsons next week.
Keep the show about the main character, but every once in a while, yeah, I'd be curious what an episode about that one guy that only appeared twice would be like.
In the original continuity Homer and Marge met in high school in the 1970s
@@CageBlack1443 I agree, i like seeing the supporting cast get more character development. I remember as a teen is getting to a stage where the main simpsons cast were in the episodes less and less. its completely fine if its every once and a while but not all the time. earlier episodes they were more involved in the plot when it was a supporting characters episode.
Conversely, I wouldn't mind if they just let the characters grow up. Having the kids finally be teenagers would at least open up more story possibilities.
Although admittedly that advice works better for a more grounded show, like Bob's Burgers.
I was SO scared that this would be a Manscaped add with that sponsor transition
Ls mark edges to skibidi toilet in Ohio😂😂😂
@@Bronny_James_is_GOATED man get your cringe ass back to yt shorts
It's a good thing I wasn't the only one wondering where that transition was going.
I'm sick of sponsors in general, 90% of them are scams anyways.
@@AbrasiousProductionsI think you missed what I was getting at
To me what bugs me a lot about a lot of newer episodes of shows is the bright AF colors. Seariously watching season 1 SpongeBob vs whatever the new season is the colors are eye piercing same with the Simpsons it just looks too perfect
Yeah simpsons and the sponge lost all charm it’s artstyle had
Because of the thing being that children are attracted to saturated colors, also because of technology and its improvements
@@texasroze2371 same bro! I have noticed the Dragon ball franchise bouncing from DB’s plushy celluloid comedy, to DBZ’s Bollywood style celluloid drama, to GT’s earthy and edgy celluloid fights, to Kai’s goofy digital intro, to Super’s over-saturated digital slice of life moments, to Daima’s awe-inspiring digital pastel trailer.
I thought I was the only one who noticed this. I’ve felt this way for a long time.
I am 39, and watch, anime, cartoons since memorie have, and is not only sponge Bob, is in general, now eveirthing is not only brigther, but everithing is over the tops, and i remember a video expalning, that is so sad and funny, the color scheme is the same they make when they dont make it too brith, or the color are stronger, i miss old art, in western cartoon the colors werent so brigth but have the draw more detail in shadows and movement, in anime the colors were brither but there were consistent and was not so over the top with the acction.
I miss old times when looks like everyone have an idea, and was consistent, now eveirthing try to be the new sensation and go overboard
And then, there's Arthur and Cyberchase. Arthur ran for 25 seasons before it ended its run and Cyberchase is still on the air after 22 years, 14 seasons and the death of Gilbert Gottfried.
RIP Gilbert Gottfried, the king of rascally characters.
CYBERCHASE is still around?! Holy crap!
I'm not complaining, those are the only shows I like to watch on PBS kids
I honestly believe that The SpongeBob Movie should’ve been the swan song for that show. It would’ve been literally the perfect ending and when I rewatch the show now I stop there and pretend that’s when it ended. 😂
That's the point the show's creator wanted the series to end. Nickelodeon were more interested in making money/milking its success than respecting his wishes though.
@@LoveMusic-123 Viacom is such an evil company. Lol
@@LoveMusic-123 "SpongeBob should end after the movie" was never one of his wishes.
Also, I feel like had the show ended after the first movie, it would be both a good and lost cause (more on the former if you ask me).
Even when I was a kid, I thought the same thing. I was 13.
The first movie was supposed to be the series finale. The show was cancelled. But the movie launched the show to new heights so Nickelodeon renewed it and it sadly has never been cancelled again since
Many people say that when a show goes beyond a fifth,sixth or tenth season,that's when a show becomes bad but I honestly disagree.In my opinion,the most certain period that a show should be finished is the period in the writers strongly start to run out of ideas,and this is a problem that can happen even before a fourth season or a 100th episode.
I agree but I'd also point out shows where season 5/6 was their peak and everything else was kind of chasing that original high. Often times though they'll bring in new writers too keep the show running if the network/studio sees fit
A typical single story has three arcs. With five seasons, you have 1,3,5 being the beginning, middle, and end and more specifically seasons 2 and 4 being transitions into them so the shift from an objective to another don't feels so sudden.
Of course, if the whole thing hinges on a very limited premise you shouldn't even make a second one. 5 seasons isn't a universal thing, it's a limitation, because after five seasons you will struggle to come up with a new objective for the characters and be lost in the scramble.
I think it depends of the structure of the show. Some shows are so serialized that they can come up with new plots that are totally unique even in the later seasons. A lot of actions animes are like this. And on the opposite side of the spectrum we've got shows so unserialized that they can make as many seasons as they want without ever stopping. Some famous Sitcoms like Always Sunny in Philadelphia fall into this category.
Everyone still loves SouthPark despite it going on so long. So either it somehow broke the curse of long running shows or it's fans just don't care and ignore the decay. I think it's a bit of both but what do you think.
Glad cobra kai is ending at season 6 then
It’s funny you mention Cosmo, Timmy’s dad, and Mr Crocker, being they all wear the same shirt and tie… 🤔
I never noticed that until now
Holy shit
@@ZekeorSomethinghe brought it up in the ranking video
Extremely random and unrelated but I’m watching this video with my 6 year old little niece in the room, and she goes “why is the man in the video pretending to speak in a bad Jamaican accent?” And it threw me completely off LOL. I’m sorry about her, Mark. Excellent video. Just wanted to share that funny moment haha. ❤
I hope Mark does a video on Adventure Time. That show is actually really amazing. It starts off all silly & goofy but later on it goes over life lessons and relationship advice. It tackles real world issues in its own way and the later seasons are filled with wisdom and emotional maturity.
I never realized Timmy's dad, Cosmo, and Crocker all wear the exact same shirt.
They are Butch Hartman’s favorite characters according to that man himself.
Imagine running a certain show about a certain sponge for almost 25 years. Couldn’t be me.
Ls mark edges to skibidi toilet in Ohio😂😂😂
@@Bronny_James_is_GOATEDcringe
@@Bronny_James_is_GOATED😂😂😂😂😂
I'm 27. That means this show has been running for most of my life 😢
@@victornoel36kinda epic sauce tbh
About the topic of Voice Actors aging, Peter Cullen comes to mind. He's 82 and still doing voice work. Was once again Optimus and was in Invincible. He seems to really still enjoy doing it but I always worry at this point if doing "the" voice, the one he got inspiration for from his brother, is straining .
And then there's Masako Nozawa, who is like 87 years old and is still voicing Goku. While I may have my own gripes with her performance, the fact that she's still voice acting that intense of a character without her age affecting her performance is just insane!
@@LloydTheZephyrianand theres also frank Welker who is still doing a good job as Fred imo and in general is still a really good va
@@jadenbryant9283Who also has voiced Megatron just as long as Peter Cullen voiced Optimus
@@Mrbackblower even though fellow transformer fans do admit that both Peter and Frank are friends.
This is why I sorta wish that Family Guy remained cancelled by Fox if it had never been renewed by Fox it would have been fondly remembered as a nice cult classic.
Exactly
At least it wouldn’t have hit a massive nosedive eventually
Be careful what you wish for I guess
If the popularity of the recent Ted show is any indication, it proves that Family Guy went downhill the second Seth MacFarlane stopped writing it.
Blame the DVD sales
@@michaelstrong5383 Is the Ted show good?
@@RYMAN1321 Not all the jokes land, but it's still funnier than Family Guy has become in a long time.
Personally, I think while Bob's Burgers has been on longer than expected or some people don't think it's at funny as it used to be, I at least appreciate it for sticking to what it's good at. Like, besides one episode where the family goes to Florida to visit Linda's in-laws, the show mostly takes place in their town and the surrounding area, which I really appreciate
The thing about the Krusty Krab improving over the years like you mentioned around 11:30 I think has a bit more meaning. It used to be run down and I think SpongeBob’s presence elevated it to where it is in newer episodes.
One show that somehow hasn’t started to show fatigue is Bobs Burgers. I’m so happy that they kept all the characters as actual characters and are still developing them. Season 14 has been really good actually and I have massive respect for the writers for keeping up such a consistent bar when it comes to writing the show.
Bob's Burgers is kinda in this weird position where it's not really declining, but it's hard to say it hasn't gotten a bit formulaic and stale. I think I only saw it up to season 12, but while the episodes were all passable, there was little to nothing that surprised me, either. Which is better in some ways than just becoming hard to watch, but still kinda disappointing.
One thing i think that causes shows to fladerize their characters is when characters stop growing up. Instead of making them into better versions of themselves writers either change or start getting lazy and eventually it makes them lesser and it either goes into a process of relearning everythinf they already learned. Or- it falls into a cycle of emptyness with little depth with the characters.
For me, it’s just simply the overused and endless Status Quo is God trope. That’s what killed off the Fairly OddParents in the end. They never wanted that show to go into a permanent serialized route.
I'm surprised you didn't mention Regular Show, which I'd argue hits most of these marks. It clearly had fatigue as it went on, going from being wacky to being all about will they wont theys with Mordecai, CJ, and Margaret, the flanderization of the characters, and the "jump the shark" moment with the dome in season 7, and space in season 8.
Well, thankfully the show did get a proper conclusion and it ended on a rather good note. So at least the showrunners knew the right moment of when to stop making more episodes.
Younger me was so weirded out by the episode of Mordecai coping with being rejected by Margaret. Bizarre for a “kids” show
The show had a proper conclusion and was always bat shit insane, so can you really consider jumping the shark?
In the show that a basketball god shows up, and there is a horse that needs to pass a history test, so the earth doesn't blow up
@@gabsnandes7818 those aren't really considered jumping the shark moments, since they're very regular things for Regular Show to have in every other episode. The dome arc had its own special which was honestly, very boring, and the space arc took up all of season 8. You don't really just go from love plots and episodes involving serious relationships, to a storyline about a dome encasing the park, and then going to space, like that. That, and the whole rebranding with season 8 was that Regular Show WAS in space.
@hankenthusiast6187 I also thought it was kinda boring, but in all honesty, I don't view as a jumping the shark moment, since it doesn't feel to out of place since it's Regular Show you know?
I enjoy how the amazing world of gumball handled voice actors getting too old and switching out a new one
Whare it was a running home that the characters voice changed and all the characters around them noticed it except for the character itself and then it just moved on like nothing happened after it
As a kid, I was a huge fan of Jimmy Neutron, and for the longest time I was so upset and resentful that it got so little airtime and was cancelled after only 4-5 seasons.
But now? I guess there's a silver lining to it. Everyone who loved it remembers it as a fantastic show, rather than a dilapidated shell of its former self that went on for too long.
It only has 3 seasons
You either die a hero or live along enough to see yourself become a villain
You either die a hero or live along enough to see yourself become a villain
BRINGING UP GREYS WAS SO RANDOM BUT I LOVE IT
it's such a good case study, i adored the show before like season 11 but it's downfall is horrible. glad you analyzed it for an audience like yours who probably doesnt even care about it
The tumor arc in S11 is so good
@@noah_farmer100% so many ppl say it fell off when Derick died but that’s just not true😂 end of s13-14 was where you could tell the quality had went down
are you a girl
I swear, I love Grey’s (I’m watching it right now lmao) but it just got worse after the plane crash :/
South Park is the only thing I can think of that still is fresh.
Like there's off episodes, but never episodes that are out of character.
And bobs burgers
and american dad
I miss when South Park fans laughed at the offensive jokes without actually agreeing with them.
It's been liberal propaganda since season 20
@@user-ko7rq4ki9x HeII no.
Well there's a good guide one can use for such a thing. You have shows like KOTH and Regular Show which were long running but ended just when the creators wanted them to, and shows like The Simpsons and Family Guy where they've gone on so long you'd wish they'd been cancelled years ago. Then you have your odd man outs like Clerks The Animated Series or something like that which got cancelled way too quickly.
Or be like Phineas and ferb and Futurama were there gone for a while and then come back through some circumstances [more so Futurama than Phineas and ferb]
@@jadenbryant9283 Oh yeah those are another 2 outliers. Phineas and Ferb was on forever but was considered beloved enough to keep around. Kinda like a Scooby-Doo of sorts The Mouse can just keep bringing it back at random in different forms. Futurama on the other hand just can't be kept down. Not due to lack of trying by networks though. It just doesn't want to die unless it's on its own terms.
south park is kind of another outlier. it's lowest lows aren't nearly as low as its contemporaries have sunk to, and being partly built around satire lets it be perpetually fueled by real world events
I really like what they did with Malcolm in the Middle. Since it’s live action, the characters are going to age, and I think that helps make it enjoyable. It gives more you can do with the characters. Like 12 year old Malcolm isn’t going to have to make the same decisions as an older, 16 year old Malcolm, and so it makes the change in the character feel a lot more natural and less forced
There are some animated shows that do it too
@@zierragacha5089 yes for sure! just using MitM as an example
That's a really great idea idk what else to say
That’s why I mostly roll my eyes or get annoyed when people beg for shows to get more seasons like it wasn’t enough for them shows such as gravity falls amphibia and the owl house like I get it I would like another season to but you have to move on now
Especially when you have shows like Wander over Yonder, Inside Job, and Mao Mao that were just cancelled and never got the chance to finish thier stories because they were treated poorly by the network/platform they were on.
@@xanderg.1070 yeah they did mao mao so dirty and I can’t even watch it anywhere
Right
@@xanderg.1070never heard of those shows
Whenever a creator or cast member leaves a popular show, that should be a massive sign that a series is gonna change massively, often times for the worst, need I remind y’all of community season 4(aka the gas leak years).
I wanna give the example with lauren Faust and mlp
Season 4 of The Boondocks with the absence of Aaron McGruder and Carl Jones comes to mind for me.
Eric leaving That '70s Show
Season 4 was okayish- I hated Troy and Britta together. I usually skip some of it and that’s saying something because I absolutely LOVE Community.
Simpsons has been on so long Homer is a milennial now
Soon they'll make him a 2010s kid....
The Simpsons needs to end before Homer becomes a Skibidi Toilet child
Edit: fixed Homer's name
@@grantwilliams2571 (Hoker)
Homer.
@@Nelvinkumar Hooker
@@Nelvinkumar Ah yes. The most iconic TV family of all time: *h o k e r* and his wife *m i r g e*
Who who could forget about their children,such as the mischevious *b o r t* the intelligent *l u s a* and the baby *m e g g i e*
those clips of modern fairly odd parents with the bouncy lerping and robotic keyframed animations make me want to die
It’s so unrecognisable from when the show began
It feels like these days, cartoons (or TV shows in general) have one or two choices for how long shows can last: either it ends after two seasons with a few dozen episodes or lasts forever and a day.
Yeah it’s so annoying.
@@Koopalingfan same.
@@SlapstickGenius23 Yeah
Not going to lie, South Park is still going strong despite its 27-year long run.
Its lowest lows are still just fine, so it’s amazing how it managed to stay so good for so long.
The power of a entire satire-focused show💪😎
I assume it's because it primarily comments on current events which are always unfolding in new and interesting ways
It also helps that current reality is more and more a fucking joke in itself. Every day a 20 yo. Onion article is becoming a reality
That's cause it's creators still findable ways to tell interesting stories after all these seasons.
what helps is that the creators Matt and Trey are still involved in the show, which means that the characters can't be flanderized since they know everything about the character and can make sure that they're consistent
I think a show that’s hard not to mention when it comes to shows lasting a long time is Doctor Who
With a total of 39 complete seasons (if you add all the seasons of classic and nuwho together) over the span of 60 years, with a 40th season on the way, the show is designed in a way to go one forever. Sure there have been a few rough spots (chibnall bad) but it’s still managed to stick around after all these years
You beat me to this comment! I think Doctor Who is one of the few TV shows that could genuinely last forever and never run out of stories.
Yeah but one could also argue that it's hardly even the same show anymore. Literally everything besides the premise of an alien traveling in time has changed. The look, personality, and morals of the main character, the tone, the continuity, the lore, they never stays the same.
Even those things I mentioned as being part of the premise have changed over time. At some point the Doctor was written as part human, in the 3rd doctor's era he was stuck on earth so the time and space adventures were really limited. Even the idea of the Doctor being a Time Lord with a set amount of faces has been called into question, we currently don't know who the Doctor is anymore or where he/she comes from.
So yeah, the show really does go on forever but it's the kind of show that makes you question: How much can you change for the show to still be the same show? Is OG Doctor Who the same show as the one today or is it closer to a different show altogether?
@@Obi-Wan_Kenobi doctor who has a very loose relationship with its own canon, even if something is presented as a hard rule that can never be broken, that is only true for as long as the show's writers at that specific moment stay around to remember it. 2005 nuwho vs 2024 nuwho really is a fundamentally, completely different show made by entirely different people, and it shows.
the more you think about the lore it presents, the more you try to take the show seriously and believe what it tells you, the less sense anything makes. contradictions are absolutely everywhere.
but the show is ALSO constantly so self-obsessed as to repeatedly remind everyone that this is supposedly the same character and canon as the show that began in the 60s, which only makes these discrepancies more obvious and strange.
i love doctor who but i honestly think it might actually benefit from a full-on lore reset. reboot the entire universe and timeline. "the timeless child" might have even worked, people might have even accepted that, if they didn't try to crowbar that idea into a canon that very explicitly did not accommodate it.
or at the very least, lay off the constant nostalgia pandering if you can't maintain the internal consistency to keep it believable. i understand that the "same character forever" thing is part of the show's identity, but at this point "having an utterly nonsensical and wildly contradictory lore" is too.
@@Obi-Wan_KenobiI mean I would still says the structure is still the same the doctor and whatever companion go to a Planet or certian time period or whatever settle in in its environment for a bit they find out something off turnes out its a monster or the daleks or whatever and have to find a way to stop it
@@DELTARYZeh your opinion I personally think doctor who shouldn't reboot I think this video will explain it better than I potentially could ruclips.net/video/gSS8Pty4ZoIo/видео.htmluld
The voice actors sound so different in the Simpsons poor Julie Kavner (also love that you are a Grey’s Anatomy fan lol)
The show Heroes really laid the foundation for how a TV shows lifespan goes. It starts out good, then slowly gets worse and worse until everyone is relieved that it finally ends.
Damn, it’s kinda crazy how Ninjago is still going to this day, faced many if these issues and overcame most of them.
RIGHT. People complained about the design changes but I’m glad they did, it shows that the characters actually grew and aged.
@@magikphoenix140 Especially in DR-hell some characters have come full circle imo. If they were to die at any point now, I’d be content (as long as the death way good ie Iron Man)
Right??? Seasons 11-15 felt kinda unnecessary, tbh, even tho 13 and 14 were good.
But now with Dragons Rising the show is better than ever!
South Park still running strong after 27 years . New Seasons are still good and the specials have been awesome. Crazy how this series has been going for almost 30 years and managed to never miss or have a bad season .
Fun fact: if the simpsons ever ends. South park would replace it as the longest running u.s cartoon. If it still continued of course.
Having the original creators still behind the show helps a lot
@@ScooterCat64 yep!
@@ScooterCat64 Yeah I have to think that’s why
Season 20 was pretty bad
i love the mini ytp at 6:21
BRIAB 👹
Shows like South Park, family guy, and the Simpsons were the best when they opened an episode with the immediate cast sitting on the couch or standing around.
King of the Hill is the best show ever made then.
@@brainthebrian3690 I agree. I’m watching it right now. The only reason I didn’t include KOTH is because it ended at the right time.
When I heard "If there's anything I'd describe as being... uh, long..." that was a perfect moment for a Manscaped sponsorship
Im kinda glad courage the cowardly dog didnt get the spongebob treatment
6:29 "Rawr :3"
i've pretty much been calling this phenomenon "the simpsons effect" in my head for a bit
I really enjoyed the Greys Anatomy detour. I would consider the “jump the shark” moment to be either when Christina left or Derek’s accident
Definitely after Derek died.
@@noah_farmerwas it a writing decision or did his actor actually die?
@@paperluigi6132Patrick Dempsey (who plays Derek Shepherd) is very much alive lol. So is James Pickens Jr. the guy said mark died in the video. He’s one of two original cast members left in the upcoming 20th season
Derek dying really changed the show, but I argue that Alex and Jo's wedding shouldve been the show's Finale
@@SadNYGuyI agree that was a good finale. I am excited to see Arizona coming back this season they really know how to string us along lol
I like how the show Monk just…stopped. One episode they wrapped up the mysteries and walked off the air while still being decently popular. Good ending.
Why is Mark so much nicer to Spongebob like everytime he says something negative about it he has to prefix "Now I'm not trying to say its bad if you like it that's fine!" but not for any other show.
He’s nothing like those other reviewers out there he’s way more humble
One show that almost has 20 years and still is good is "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia"
Same goes to South Park
There was a considerable dip in quality since season 13, but even the worst of IASIP episodes are better than 90% of tv shows nowadays
Now that I think about it, It's Always Sunny never really went through any of the tropes mentioned in this video. The closest we get was when it looked like Dennis was going to leave the gang because Glenn Howerton was in another show at the time, and he was going to be replaced by Mindy Kaling, but even that was making fun of shows that have done the same thing. Not to mention, Dennis still remained on the show after that.
@@michaelstrong5383 They also got rid of Charlie stalking the Waitress ever since they slept together, now she's just sort of there sometimes
It's always sunny is one of the best TV shows of all time. That being said, it should have ended when Dennis left to go be a dad.
Don’t get me wrong. It is sad when I show ends. But when it never ends? Oh man. It just feels like a rinse and repeat. When it concludes you feel grown attach to the characters and their world. If it doesn’t end, you get bored. But I totally get the business of it. Yes. I’m glad to hear animators enjoying their jobs on the shows they work on. But it comes a time and place where your story just needs an ending. And usually when that happens, the animators will always find a new thing to work on
7:14 yeah, and the trauma was so bad it took them a decade to realize brian was alive almost the entire time😔.
Flanderization is the major aspect that really hammers a show to where the characters...kinda have to be the same otherwise they are alienated by the audience, one show that i think makes it work or knows it well to the point of avoiding it is South Park, Trey and Matt i feel know how long they have been going and know how to make their characters work so they use the obvious tropes and make episodes they try to push the envelope on what the networks allow versus what they wont allow, which i think makes them so much more appreciated then Family Guy or The Simpsons does as these shows both feel like they are pumping out stories that just feel like dead air or to fill the run time they have been given so those watching it will notice the jokes being flat or uninteresting stories, like the only thing worth noting in recent Family Guy in the last few years was that Lois's VA bloodcurdling scream for a episode that when you watch it back it's not really funny but her performance was one of the best portions of acting that any have seen come out from it.
Its honestly sad these are the outcomes but at the same time the only release of these shows will see is if the network will pay for continuation or how long many will watch.
Something similar can be said for a lot of popular Hindi serials (aka Bollywood tv soap operas)!
12:29 never would I ever imagine ls mark talk about friends in his life, bless him
I want to see a cartoon in the future that justifies a longer run by having the characters age and evolve as the series progresses
A really cool idea whould be to start a show where the characters first follow a tipical stereotype and also have your tipical happy go lucky villain not much of treat, maybe starting the show around the mid 2010's and as time goes on the humour and personalities of the characters evolve maybe you could base the creator own process of aging to make It more realistic, you whould be able to make a long cartoon because as times goes on there are more possible scenarios to make and also It whould be cool to see the main characters slowly as they age grow more distant and dont hang out as often so you could make more one character centric episode, and at the end just see the gang split up and go their own ways to grow and make more memories as they whould be tired of only being around themselfs (the villain can be defeated some time before that to aslo give conclusion to them)
Kind of in this vein, Steven Universe had a time skip after the formal "ending" for a movie and bonus series. Not really aging as it went on but still incorporating that idea
Adventure Time is literally that. Season 1 starts when he's like 11 years old and then the final season celebrates his 17th birthday at one point. Then when the Fionna and Cake spinoff was released we got to see him as a huge gigachad adult man.
that isn't the only way to justify having a long run as a show
@@StofenThe1st Adventure time was great.
South Park is the one animated show that just hits it's quality out of the park (🥁) time after time.
Ls mark edges to skibidi toilet in Ohio😂😂😂
For a long time it was incredible but nowadays in my opinion it’s mostly middle of the road. Some episodes are still good but it’s mostly mixed for me.
As long as the world we live in is fucked up, south park will continue to have topics to make fun of
I think it's because of Matt and Trey, those guys are just really funny unironically, the show changing (I mean watch a season 1, season 6, season 11, season 16, season 21, and a season 26 episode they're all completely different from each other) their more topical nature, and the fact they are petty in a really funny way, like the episode Whale Whores, that was a real show they're making fun of and like no one remembers that show, but Matt and Trey saw it and thought, "This is bullshit nothing is going on."
eh its been sorta mid for like the past 15 years
6:24 my final braincell trying to process life
The clip of marge transitioning to the SpongeBob clarinet fuckin cracked me up XD
I don't like shows that don't have an end point. It would be great to have more tv shows that tell a complete story from start to finish in 1-3 seasons. Every episode feels way more impactful that way.
When show has lasted too long, the only thing you can hope for is a good ending.
It's hard for me to comprehend that there was a single person who was not only as invested in Family Guy as to feel it was cataclysmic to kill off Brian, but also actually believe it was an actual lasting change.
I feel your pain with Grey's Anatomy. My mother is OBSESSED with the show so it's on almost 24/7 so you can definitely see when the Fonz is on the water skis. You can even predict Plot Twists episodes in advance. And how you feel about Callie, I feel about Izzie and ARIZONA. I hate Arizona so much. As for the rest of the video, I agree. A good performer knows when its best to get off the stage. A lot of the shows that have been on for decades need to let the show go entirely or maybe do what The Walking Dead did. The original show jumped the shark when they added Negan but with the spin offs, they made just enough wiggle room to recover, in my opinion. Letting shows go opens the door for new excellent ones to be introduced and to have a fighting chance of getting more than 2 seasons without a huge fight first.
6:21 Brian’s death as a YTP is something I never knew I needed but thank you
Trey and Matt did 1 right thing, when They Felt South Park run it's course, they stopped after Season 23. When they felt like short Returns, they did 2 Specials, when they found their Joy again, they returned (also $900 Million Deal with Paramount, who could say no) and it felt once again like the better times of South Park
They didn't actually stop they couldn't really continue working at the time because of the Pandemic which screwed up their schedule making Season 24 the shortest in their show's history which resulted in them now doing shorter seasons altogether
thank you for including a mini ytp of brian getting hit by the car
A show like Avatar the Last Airbender is a perfect example of ending at the perfect time and perfect length (I wish they made more seasons)
Another reason why chowder is my favorite cartoon it ended before it got stale
I’d honestly rather see it go to shit if we’d get more good quality content. That show was robbed
I honestly think something that is so underrated when it comes to TV shows is when a show ends after a few seasons. I can appreciate a show like The Good Place, Fleabag, or Ted Lasso that get really popular but make the decision to end the show on their terms when they are done telling the story.
12:50
I don't think the shows ever got to a seasonal rot-era, but I remember not liking the King of Queens and 3rd Rock from the Sun endings because they gave the audience what they wanted, but I wanted to see more. They did things that would've otherwise wildly changed the dynamic of the characters and I would've been interested to see how the characters adjusted to the different circumstances. I think it would've been interesting to keep that continuity and see what they could've done with it.
Meanwhile American Dad somehow not only stayed fresh, but got better as it went on!
Totally
I think it’s cause it’s the only show that Seth MacFarlane actually still writes for out of all of his shows.
@@AlanCassidy That does make sense.
So did Family Guy
I would not put it past Nickelodeon to try making more SpongeBob with AI voices if say, Tom Kenny passed.
That would be horrible
No one on earth talks like this guy
Sadly there are quite many of theeeemmah, probably for the sake of prolonging the videoooo-uh.
*Skip the Tutorial* (Minecraft RUclipsr), for exampooollah.
I got whiplash when you brought up Friends, wouldn’t expect someone like you to know about the show’s lore that much😭 but a good point you made up. Their trope was PAINFUL to watch when binging the show.
There was an episode of Happy Days, where a dude LITERALLY jumped a shark. And it was the BEST ONE.
god damn mark thought you were gonna rank every cartoon in existence
Honestly I find a perfectly fine for a show to keep going this longer as long as the characters still have the same dynamic and the shows quality still hold up and if you want to introduce new characters and make small changes towards the status quo that’s perfectly fine and I believe South Park is the only show that succeeds in doing that.🐱
Boy Meets World is an interesting case because while you can definitely point out some aspects of rot and hints that the show was maybe going on too long, it still had a great idea for how to prolong itself. What do you do when you cant stop the main character from aging? You make that the focal point of the show.
I don't agree with everything they made Cory do and there were times when his decisions felt too juvenile for where he was supposed to be in his life, but i do think it's a solid example of keeping the show fresh while still trying to maintain the core of why the show got popular to begin with. I also think the tonal shift makes perfect sense. Things aren't as happy go lucky when you get older and you have to deal with real serious drama that you might not be ready for. And that's ok
5:54 ironically I learned about the happy days incident from that 70s show
The biggest red flag I notice is when a show goes on for so long that grown-up fans of it increasingly begin working on the staff to the point where the show becomes Fanservice: the Show and nothing else.