With the release of Imperium Maledictum, the latest Warhammer 40,000 TTRPG by Cubicle 7 which carries on the legacy of the d100 40kRPG systems, this video is now a bit out of date. We're looking forward to creating content about this great new game!
Personally, I do enjoy playing and GM-ing Wrath and Glory, largely because me and the few friends I have manage to get into TTRPG, are able to play as something other than regular humans, or super humans when talking about Space Marines. My first "trial run" one-shot campaign having them play as Eldar Corsairs raiding an Imperial ship.
I find Wrath & Glory great for high octane one-shots, but just lacking for continuous play / long campaigns. Dark Heresy 2E, to me, is rules light and super easy to run. Of course with Imperium Maledictum out now, its my current go-to.
Late, but thought I'd put in my thoughts. I originally got the Dark Heresy line just to read and collect the books back in the day. Then the guys I played with begged me to run it and I have been loving it ever since. The big thing with Dark Heresy is the setting, you don't have the entire galaxy to explore, but with the various sectors cover about every sort of world you'd find in 40K while giving you a rather more ground level. I'm pretty sure the game introduced the Throne Gelt as the common currency in the Imperium and brought in some fan favorite factions like the Maccabeian Janassaries and the Rak'gol. There's a lot of creativity put in there that I think harkens back to the start of the series that is more tongue in cheek than full on grimdark. One thing to keep in mind is scale: while your players can't solve the whole Imperium's problems, they can save a planet rather readily, or several that could be worthy of possible sainthood. While it's not a total win, it is a big step in making the galaxy a little better, at least in your neck of the woods.
No one but the emperor himself can save the entirety of the imperium ! That is the point ! It is far too large a beast to be saved by the agenda of any one mortal.. DH looks amazing Thankyou for your help
Bit late to the party(?) but thanks man for the great overview. As someone who's been looking to get into 40k TTRPGs for a while, I've found it very difficult to find good overviews like this one. Much of the material available online is outdated or needlessly obtuse in wording. This here, by comparison, hit a great middle ground between salient terminology for anyone with some RPG experience and specific Warhammer-specific allusions. All around great. Now, I have to ask about that Genesys video. I'd be very interested in learning more about that...and perhaps about the published supplements and modules for Dark Heresy 2.
Thank you for the lovely compliment mate, it’s much appreciated. My next rpg focused video will be a guide on how absolute newbies who want to get into it, but have no idea how, can do so and after that, it should be the Genesys video!
One more thing to add tho: Wrath and Glory is actually quite heavy on rules. The reason why people say it isn't is when they are comparing it to Imperium Maledictum or Dark Heresy, etc. I was actually very pleased how well the game balances psychic powers, ranged combat and melee. Combat options are rich, game provides quite a bit of special gear and abilities that allow you to spice it up even more and once you get used to it, it is a very addictive system. Of course, d100 systems will be even more nuanced than this but if your previous TTRPG experience was D&D 5e, and looking for more complex system, you will be pleased with this game😊
I'm here because there's currently a Humble Bundle sale for Wrath & Glory going on and I'm considering getting on it. $182 worth of material for $18 to me sounds like a fantastic deal. I've always preferred more narrative-based games. Simulationist never took hold with me, far as I'm concerned with my GM style I like to keep a lively pace and not get bogged down by the rules. If someone wants to do something cool not otherwise in the rules I say go for it. The part about it feeling "samey" is a valid concern but that's what homebrew is for, a bit of spice.
For all the streamlined rules and simple mechanichs Wrath and Glory provides (specially towards the casual audience), I really wish there was a 3rd edition of Dark Heresy.
I want to run wrath and glory where the players are chaos followers who owe a daemon primarch and have to sandbox conquer a whole hive world. They are to make cults and blackmail people or incorporate gangs. Which one would you recommend? Should I take elements like the reputation from black crusade or just run black crusade? (They know the universe quite well so thats not an issue)
Thanks for reaching out! In your circumstance I'd honestly just run Black Crusade. Wrath and Glory is fine if you use it to tell stories the other RPGs can't tell well but it's not suitable in my opinion to try and use it to run a game which could be covered by one of the more indepth RPGs unless you absolutely cannot stand crunchier rules (which is a perfectly valid view point). I've tried running a Dark Heresy style game in Wrath and Glory and I would not do so again, it just felt like watered down Dark Heresy.
We’ve been playing WFRP and now my friends want to play as space marines. I picked up a pdf of Deathwatch hoping it would be similar due to its d100 system and as we made characters last night. I must say I’m overwhelmed at the complexity compared to WFRP. However when I looked into Wrath and Glory it seemed a little light. Im wondering if I should give it a different look
I agree with your sentiments, there’s no middle ground when it comes to playing space marines. You have a choice of a very complicated rule set or a very abstracted one with no middle ground. If you’re happy to play an (excellent) home made system built using a system designed to create your own setting within the game system, I highly recommend the Dark Heresy mod for Genesys.
Sounds good! If you want to find out more from the producers website so you can see what products are available you want to go to www.cubicle7games.com . I also recommend the 40kRPG subreddit as well as the Wrath and Glory discord group: discord.gg/5nGMtuPs
There's something to be said for 5parsecs from home for solo players and stargrave for small groups that would rather control small warbands instead of individual characters. Both are miniature agnostic and adapt easily to 40k. Nice video, by the way, I really enjoyed oneshots of dark heresy and rogue trader. 🙂
Thank you for the kind words, you’ve teased me with some interesting leads to read up on in the future. I’ve always wondered if there was an rpg like game where you controlled a small group of people instead, reminiscent of the old Inquisitor game…
@@GrimdarkGamers yee, both mentioned games are about small crews. Stargrave is a lot more combat focused and doesn't actually have rules for narrative play (yet), but encourages groups to craft overarching stories between skirmishes. 5 parsecs on the other hand has tons going for it narratively, and combat typically only takes 20-30 minutes out of each hour long session.
I have the main book as well as fate and blood, I'd love to run a game where each player gets one marine and cultist, switching up as the campaign demands need. As for the backstabbing nature, I imagine with a good group of friends it could work well, but you're very reliant on your actual friend group to determine its success
I am supprised that author considers w&g rules streamlined. I haven't tried dark heresy games but I played games like dnd 5e, delata green, call of cthulhu 7e, mothership and I am preatty sure that I forgot about something. Basically what I am trying to say that combat in w&g feels more rules heavy then in aforementioned games.
I bought the cubicle 7 wrath n glory. Haven't played it yet but did a proper look through and it looks good for my play style. Time will tell when we actually get some play time.
The Fantasy Flight 40k RPGs are out of print and are starting to get pretty expensive. The Dark Heresy 2nd edition books costs around $300 for a print copy now, new or used. A pdf copy is, of course, much cheaper.
@@lugzgaming5074 It seems cleaned up and streamlined but I have never played it. I would say it's not worth $300 or anything like that but is worth $29.99 for the pdf version.
I think the biggest problem with the D100 games is the way the rulebooks use their talent systems. There are just too much of them with too much small little mechanics tied to them and nobody is ever able to recall them all. I would like to have less of them which matter more. A good example for them are the mechanics of the Symbaroum System which is sadly not adabtable for 40k. I also don´t really like Wrath and Glory so I´m stuck with the D100 system for now. But I rule it more like the Call of Cthulhu games.
Wrath and glory is a game I really want to like, but there are two things that really just rub me the wrong way. The first is metacurrency, I don’t mind it much when used sparingly but this game seems saturated in it. The other thing that rubs me the wrong way are power scaling and ability of the characters. Space marines look massively toned down so that non marine characters can keep up. It was unthinkable in d100 to run marines alongside human PCs. That and players always act first/it’s really hard to actually die. Idk my impression is the rules don’t feel very grimdark
I definitely see where you’re coming from. Personally I don’t mind meta-currency (my favorite game to run is probably the Fallout 2d20 game and 2d20 games are saturated in meta currencies) but I totally relate to the power scaling issues in wrath and glory. The game has its fans and as such I’ve done my best to present the two styles equally as it may be right for some, but wrath and glory currently doesn’t scratch that grimdark itch for me. I was hoping the next expansion, Church of Steel would change my mind but from what I’ve seen, I’m not sure it will.
I love the meta-currency because it takes focus away from inventory management, and players are forced to use their Influence or Cunning to engage with multi-planet bureaucracies that don't deal in consistent currencies. Wealth is good for trading high-value keepsakes with xenos that don't share ANY similar currencies. Wealth reminds me of situations one could see in Dune, like trading a small bag of Spice for a squad or two of elite soldiers, their gear, and their transport. No need to become Over-Cucumbered with copper coins; save that for Morrowind and Skyrim. On the topic of scaling, it's been confirmed that official campaigns are scaled for poopy Jack-of-All-Trades types. You're better off including a couple higher Tiered enemies and have more fun with the effects of Corruption. If you want to have EVEN MORE fun, make one of the enemies call in an Orbital Bombardment once per session >:D The game is easy enough starting out; but that's only because nothing's invaded yet, and no one's Corrupted enough to piss off the Arbites by molesting and grinding people up to snort with their extra face. If you want Space Marines to stand out, max one of their main stats to 10 ASAP. Also, no need for Willpower if you take one of the SM Talents to feel no fear. You don't need to spend XP on cool tech when you simply can't die!
If I want to run squads of minions alongside some buddies' squads in mass combat, Wrath & Glory is GENIUS! It has some of THE most fluid squad-based mechanics I've ever seen in any RPG while still presenting an enormous variety of stuff for PCs to stand out, both in and out of combat. I hate exhaustive wargaming gear and abilities, but love the lore for them. WaG is like if regular 40k was actually FUN and FAST, with flexible narrative elements to boot! The only thing faster is Space Crusade. Needless to say, I am biased towards narrative + combat speed, due to some bad GMing PTSD when I wanted to help a buddy out by FLYING TO HIS STATE and DMing for his DM. However, said buddy didn't take *his own DM's* efforts seriously AT ALL and constantly created scheduling conflicts to... personally humiliate me in our broader friend group? As if I don't already do that myself, with my ADHD? Then again I ignored some red flags: like constant road-rage, his enormous similarity to Ben Shapiro, buddy thinking The Matrix Trilogy is 100% "trans propaganda," and that Conan the Barbarian is, "Just bad!" Humans are entirely fickle and scary creatures, so the more simple a system is the better it goes. 😅
With the release of Imperium Maledictum, the latest Warhammer 40,000 TTRPG by Cubicle 7 which carries on the legacy of the d100 40kRPG systems, this video is now a bit out of date. We're looking forward to creating content about this great new game!
Personally, I do enjoy playing and GM-ing Wrath and Glory, largely because me and the few friends I have manage to get into TTRPG, are able to play as something other than regular humans, or super humans when talking about Space Marines. My first "trial run" one-shot campaign having them play as Eldar Corsairs raiding an Imperial ship.
That’s definitely one of the strengths of wrath and glory. It has its flaws but it is a very flexible game.
I find Wrath & Glory great for high octane one-shots, but just lacking for continuous play / long campaigns. Dark Heresy 2E, to me, is rules light and super easy to run.
Of course with Imperium Maledictum out now, its my current go-to.
Late, but thought I'd put in my thoughts. I originally got the Dark Heresy line just to read and collect the books back in the day. Then the guys I played with begged me to run it and I have been loving it ever since. The big thing with Dark Heresy is the setting, you don't have the entire galaxy to explore, but with the various sectors cover about every sort of world you'd find in 40K while giving you a rather more ground level. I'm pretty sure the game introduced the Throne Gelt as the common currency in the Imperium and brought in some fan favorite factions like the Maccabeian Janassaries and the Rak'gol. There's a lot of creativity put in there that I think harkens back to the start of the series that is more tongue in cheek than full on grimdark. One thing to keep in mind is scale: while your players can't solve the whole Imperium's problems, they can save a planet rather readily, or several that could be worthy of possible sainthood. While it's not a total win, it is a big step in making the galaxy a little better, at least in your neck of the woods.
This right here is a wonderful elevator pitch for Dark Heresy. Love it!
No one but the emperor himself can save the entirety of the imperium !
That is the point ! It is far too large a beast to be saved by the agenda of any one mortal..
DH looks amazing Thankyou for your help
Bit late to the party(?) but thanks man for the great overview. As someone who's been looking to get into 40k TTRPGs for a while, I've found it very difficult to find good overviews like this one. Much of the material available online is outdated or needlessly obtuse in wording. This here, by comparison, hit a great middle ground between salient terminology for anyone with some RPG experience and specific Warhammer-specific allusions. All around great.
Now, I have to ask about that Genesys video. I'd be very interested in learning more about that...and perhaps about the published supplements and modules for Dark Heresy 2.
Thank you for the lovely compliment mate, it’s much appreciated. My next rpg focused video will be a guide on how absolute newbies who want to get into it, but have no idea how, can do so and after that, it should be the Genesys video!
This man has helped me on Reddit and this video is such a help
Dude you deserve way more subs and views!
One more thing to add tho: Wrath and Glory is actually quite heavy on rules. The reason why people say it isn't is when they are comparing it to Imperium Maledictum or Dark Heresy, etc. I was actually very pleased how well the game balances psychic powers, ranged combat and melee. Combat options are rich, game provides quite a bit of special gear and abilities that allow you to spice it up even more and once you get used to it, it is a very addictive system. Of course, d100 systems will be even more nuanced than this but if your previous TTRPG experience was D&D 5e, and looking for more complex system, you will be pleased with this game😊
I'm here because there's currently a Humble Bundle sale for Wrath & Glory going on and I'm considering getting on it. $182 worth of material for $18 to me sounds like a fantastic deal.
I've always preferred more narrative-based games. Simulationist never took hold with me, far as I'm concerned with my GM style I like to keep a lively pace and not get bogged down by the rules. If someone wants to do something cool not otherwise in the rules I say go for it. The part about it feeling "samey" is a valid concern but that's what homebrew is for, a bit of spice.
For all the streamlined rules and simple mechanichs Wrath and Glory provides (specially towards the casual audience), I really wish there was a 3rd edition of Dark Heresy.
You and me both buddy. I’d like to see some mechanics from WFRP 4e make it into DH3
I want to run wrath and glory where the players are chaos followers who owe a daemon primarch and have to sandbox conquer a whole hive world. They are to make cults and blackmail people or incorporate gangs. Which one would you recommend? Should I take elements like the reputation from black crusade or just run black crusade? (They know the universe quite well so thats not an issue)
Thanks for reaching out! In your circumstance I'd honestly just run Black Crusade. Wrath and Glory is fine if you use it to tell stories the other RPGs can't tell well but it's not suitable in my opinion to try and use it to run a game which could be covered by one of the more indepth RPGs unless you absolutely cannot stand crunchier rules (which is a perfectly valid view point). I've tried running a Dark Heresy style game in Wrath and Glory and I would not do so again, it just felt like watered down Dark Heresy.
We’ve been playing WFRP and now my friends want to play as space marines. I picked up a pdf of Deathwatch hoping it would be similar due to its d100 system and as we made characters last night. I must say I’m overwhelmed at the complexity compared to WFRP. However when I looked into Wrath and Glory it seemed a little light. Im wondering if I should give it a different look
I agree with your sentiments, there’s no middle ground when it comes to playing space marines. You have a choice of a very complicated rule set or a very abstracted one with no middle ground. If you’re happy to play an (excellent) home made system built using a system designed to create your own setting within the game system, I highly recommend the Dark Heresy mod for Genesys.
I'm interested in trying to pick up Wraith and Glory as a first time game master, do you know where I can go to learn more about starting?
Sounds good! If you want to find out more from the producers website so you can see what products are available you want to go to www.cubicle7games.com . I also recommend the 40kRPG subreddit as well as the Wrath and Glory discord group: discord.gg/5nGMtuPs
There's something to be said for 5parsecs from home for solo players and stargrave for small groups that would rather control small warbands instead of individual characters. Both are miniature agnostic and adapt easily to 40k. Nice video, by the way, I really enjoyed oneshots of dark heresy and rogue trader. 🙂
Thank you for the kind words, you’ve teased me with some interesting leads to read up on in the future. I’ve always wondered if there was an rpg like game where you controlled a small group of people instead, reminiscent of the old Inquisitor game…
@@GrimdarkGamers yee, both mentioned games are about small crews. Stargrave is a lot more combat focused and doesn't actually have rules for narrative play (yet), but encourages groups to craft overarching stories between skirmishes. 5 parsecs on the other hand has tons going for it narratively, and combat typically only takes 20-30 minutes out of each hour long session.
@@mustafhadin I’ll read up on those, thank you!
I have the main book as well as fate and blood, I'd love to run a game where each player gets one marine and cultist, switching up as the campaign demands need. As for the backstabbing nature, I imagine with a good group of friends it could work well, but you're very reliant on your actual friend group to determine its success
Great advice. Thanks!
I am supprised that author considers w&g rules streamlined. I haven't tried dark heresy games but I played games like dnd 5e, delata green, call of cthulhu 7e, mothership and I am preatty sure that I forgot about something. Basically what I am trying to say that combat in w&g feels more rules heavy then in aforementioned games.
Suuuuuuupwr helpful. Thank you so much!
8:29 AVAST 'UMIE!
I bought the cubicle 7 wrath n glory. Haven't played it yet but did a proper look through and it looks good for my play style. Time will tell when we actually get some play time.
Hell yeah, if it suits your play style I’m sure you’ll have fun! I’m always glad to hear about more people getting into 40kRPG!
I didn't know about the genesys hack, sounds like a really good idea.
It works really, really well. The creator has done a fantastic job
Time to cover Imperium Maledictus ?
Currently reading it :)
@@GrimdarkGamers Me too , initial view, it sits between both camps. If C7 actually support it, it could be a wonderful "bridge".
I was on the fence for W&G (only had FFL experience) but I think I'll give it a go.
It scratches a very different itch. It’s not for everyone but definitely worth trying at least once to see if you like it.
The Fantasy Flight 40k RPGs are out of print and are starting to get pretty expensive. The Dark Heresy 2nd edition books costs around $300 for a print copy now, new or used. A pdf copy is, of course, much cheaper.
I have the 1st edition Dark Heresy book, how much better is 2nd ed in comparison?
@@lugzgaming5074 It seems cleaned up and streamlined but I have never played it. I would say it's not worth $300 or anything like that but is worth $29.99 for the pdf version.
I think the biggest problem with the D100 games is the way the rulebooks use their talent systems. There are just too much of them with too much small little mechanics tied to them and nobody is ever able to recall them all. I would like to have less of them which matter more. A good example for them are the mechanics of the Symbaroum System which is sadly not adabtable for 40k. I also don´t really like Wrath and Glory so I´m stuck with the D100 system for now. But I rule it more like the Call of Cthulhu games.
FYI one day left as of this comment to get the Cubicle 7 Wrath and Glory Humble Bundle, for 18$ get a slew of stuff
edit: sorry 16 hours remaining
Wrath and glory is a game I really want to like, but there are two things that really just rub me the wrong way. The first is metacurrency, I don’t mind it much when used sparingly but this game seems saturated in it.
The other thing that rubs me the wrong way are power scaling and ability of the characters. Space marines look massively toned down so that non marine characters can keep up. It was unthinkable in d100 to run marines alongside human PCs. That and players always act first/it’s really hard to actually die.
Idk my impression is the rules don’t feel very grimdark
I definitely see where you’re coming from. Personally I don’t mind meta-currency (my favorite game to run is probably the Fallout 2d20 game and 2d20 games are saturated in meta currencies) but I totally relate to the power scaling issues in wrath and glory. The game has its fans and as such I’ve done my best to present the two styles equally as it may be right for some, but wrath and glory currently doesn’t scratch that grimdark itch for me. I was hoping the next expansion, Church of Steel would change my mind but from what I’ve seen, I’m not sure it will.
I love the meta-currency because it takes focus away from inventory management, and players are forced to use their Influence or Cunning to engage with multi-planet bureaucracies that don't deal in consistent currencies. Wealth is good for trading high-value keepsakes with xenos that don't share ANY similar currencies.
Wealth reminds me of situations one could see in Dune, like trading a small bag of Spice for a squad or two of elite soldiers, their gear, and their transport. No need to become Over-Cucumbered with copper coins; save that for Morrowind and Skyrim.
On the topic of scaling, it's been confirmed that official campaigns are scaled for poopy Jack-of-All-Trades types. You're better off including a couple higher Tiered enemies and have more fun with the effects of Corruption. If you want to have EVEN MORE fun, make one of the enemies call in an Orbital Bombardment once per session >:D
The game is easy enough starting out; but that's only because nothing's invaded yet, and no one's Corrupted enough to piss off the Arbites by molesting and grinding people up to snort with their extra face.
If you want Space Marines to stand out, max one of their main stats to 10 ASAP. Also, no need for Willpower if you take one of the SM Talents to feel no fear. You don't need to spend XP on cool tech when you simply can't die!
If I want to run squads of minions alongside some buddies' squads in mass combat, Wrath & Glory is GENIUS! It has some of THE most fluid squad-based mechanics I've ever seen in any RPG while still presenting an enormous variety of stuff for PCs to stand out, both in and out of combat.
I hate exhaustive wargaming gear and abilities, but love the lore for them. WaG is like if regular 40k was actually FUN and FAST, with flexible narrative elements to boot! The only thing faster is Space Crusade.
Needless to say, I am biased towards narrative + combat speed, due to some bad GMing PTSD when I wanted to help a buddy out by FLYING TO HIS STATE and DMing for his DM. However, said buddy didn't take *his own DM's* efforts seriously AT ALL and constantly created scheduling conflicts to... personally humiliate me in our broader friend group? As if I don't already do that myself, with my ADHD?
Then again I ignored some red flags: like constant road-rage, his enormous similarity to Ben Shapiro, buddy thinking The Matrix Trilogy is 100% "trans propaganda," and that Conan the Barbarian is, "Just bad!"
Humans are entirely fickle and scary creatures, so the more simple a system is the better it goes. 😅