How Casinos Catch Card Counters
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- Опубликовано: 12 май 2024
- How do card counters get caught, and who is it that identifies them? Is it the eye in the sky? Highly trained dealers? Or is it those pesky pit bosses? In this video, long time card counter and blackjack expert Colin Jones shares the different ways casinos catch card counters.
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00:00 Intro
00:20 Are Backoffs Common?
01:19 How Do Casinos Know You're Counting Cards?
03:35 What if the Pit Boss is Giving Heat?
07:38 Do You Need To Worry About Surveillance?
08:46 Facial Recognition / Casino Shared Communications
For those unfamiliar with counting cards we have an entire playlist of beginners videos discussing the basics, defining the terms, and teaching basic strategy here if you want to learn more: ruclips.net/video/SHK2C-QQR-k/видео.html&pp=iAQB
How is this legal ?
@tedphillips2501 how would it be illegal you aren't changing the outcome of the game physically you just using info I. Your head.
Had a cool dealer ask me if I'm counting because I keep changing my bets and I just said yea (didn't care to get backed off). He was cool about it and said he counts at other casinos. We kept talking until he had to move tables, should've made a small team with that guy what a legend lol
he must be the chillest guy
@@oleafyworld I mean if they make money from tips they probably want you to win
@@stinginggolf3952 that's a good point
@@stinginggolf3952 win for both parties, screw the casino.
@@BestofAdinRoss The "Pit" watches the Dealers just as carefully as it watches the "Players". Any Dealer doing anything "suspicious" will be out on their ass quicker than any so called "Counter". These How to Play BJ and "COUNT" videos make me laugh!!!! " COUNTING"!!!!! Maybe only 5 or so in all of VEGAS! ( I mean real SUCCESSFUL Counters! )
Player: "Hey that's the guy from blackjack apprenticeship".
Pit Boss: "Thanks...you're banned too because you know who he is".
Lmao
I understood about 4 words this man said but was engaged throughout the entire video. Great work!
Same. I have never played in my life or know how to play
same. i’m not even old enough to gamble lmao
I had to google a lot of the terms he used here. For example, I've never heard the term "back off" before. I just thought casinos simply kicked out card counters when the caught them.
I remember when he said back off
Just using context clues, I was able to understand most of the video.@@cynthiatravers8757
I dealt cards for 10 years, and I was taught to count to try to catch counters. The only time I ever cared was if the manager was gonna sweat me if the table lost too much money (this is very common in Nevada). More often than not, I just let it slide. It usually meant more tips for me, anyway.
Then you were not dealing to real counters. They never tip and if they do it might be 1 dollar if they like you. Notoriously cheap as it kills the EV.
@@Bigernmcrakn I doubt that you've had much experience with real counters. They aren't idiots. They know that as long as they keep the dealer happy, there is a good chance they can keep playing when the dealer catches them. The counters you dealt with were probably new to the game, assuming you dealt with counters in the first place.
If tips cut too much into the profits, you're not even dealing with high value counters in the first place. Probably because high value counters do enough research to know that they should just skip the casino you work for. I'm gonna hazard a guess and say that the casino you work for has a low maximum bet.
How did you enjoy dealing cards? And how did you get into it? I’ve been interested in potentially trying to be a dealer as well
If you want to tip a dealer simply announce that the top chip on your bet is for the dealer. If you win you take the top chip off the winning chips the dealer paid you with and you give it to him or her that chip. Now... you don't come off as some kind of ungrateful player that never tips. I usually do it on my last hand before leaving the table.
@@tedosmundson7326 That depends on the casino. In the ones where I live, when you want to play for the dealer, you usually put the chip in front of your bet. That way you don't have to announce, and the dealer can grab it right away. Generally, when the tip is put on top of the bet, it means the player can still choose to gamble it, and potentially lose the bet for the dealer.
I once had a pit boss come over to quietly look at my play. At the same time, the guy sitting next to me was trying to convince me to make one of those side bets that are only there for suckers. On the next hand, I loudly said "Okay, okay, I'll make the side bet. Just this once!" I made the bet, the guy shut up, and the pit boss left, because he knew no card counter would ever be dumb enough to make one of those bets. Two birds with one stone.
Did you win that side bet ?
Little did you know he was waiting for you to say leave me the fuck alone bud to the side bet guy lol.
Which side bets you talking about? (I haven’t been in casino yet lmfao just curious$
@@kingofgrim4761 could be pairs/ suited.
@@johnandrews9433 Bc that came back with more questions
I'm a dealer myself and I can honestly say I have seen people count on my tables and I really don't care. I work at the casino but not necessarily for the casino seeing as how most of my money as a dealer comes from tips so as long as the people are tipping and not being rude I have no issue with it since I won't get in trouble myself.
I'm a dealer too. I have to agree with this college, we are there to make some money for our family. So as long as you are tipping the dealers and having a good behavior, we really don't care about it. Dealers earn money from tips in the table. Management team earn money from casino winning. Casino owners put a goal for example, they say. Okay if we make 1 million dollar profit this month, management gets 10% of the winning like bonus. Is just an example. But I think you understand the idea of how casino works.
Be casino
Make millions every month
Pay a dealer a fraction of what we make
Expect dealer to stop "cheaters" but not pay them extra
@@callingyourphone1212 that's why the casino pretends to expect it. They know dealers don't usually care.
@@jesusalexanderfernandezzap526 do you card count as you deal?
@@jesusalexanderfernandezzap526 imagine sneaking into a casino at 16 with your buddies winning several grand
Nothing big
Friend got busted by security totally ratted me
I only won 5 grand profit wise got INTERNATIONALLY BANNED and court ordered to stay out otherwise I get a lengthy prison sentence
Tried several casinos in US Mexico
All of them had my face
Only went in once
Friends were completely let go
Busted for counting slot machines
As a dealer myself I would play dumb to it.The casino only pays me $3 an hour,the rest we make on tips when the player wins,and it might be hard for the mayority of players to believe but we’re on their side.Just don’t be obvious,surveillance is always watching
I’ve never understood how it’s legal that Casinos can kick you out for knowing the rules to their games.
a private business can throw you out for any reason as long as its not race, sex, or religion. I agree its messed up but thats where we stand.
I've heard in Atlantic City they can't kick you out, but they can lower your maximum bet to make counting useless.
@@michaelmoran2125 medical reasons is also listed in there as well as seen in the charter of rights.
This is America the only people allowed to lose money is the general public
The thing is, its not suposed to be a game. Its a "chance beting activity". The "produto" that they "sell" is a random chance of winning a prize. Because of this its not allowed to use rules or mechanics of the "game". Its a total shit excuse, i dont agree but its what everyone will tell you
It’s incredible that casinos only let you play if you lose money. How is that legal?
Government gets their skim so its legit.
I get your point but casino's are for losers or some people who wanted to go wild all in once in their life. But you realise that if they allowed card counting most of them ban blackjack or go bankrupt.
Probably not going bankrupt but like I said, casino's only like the losers
Casinos have a right to refuse to give service to anyone. If any player makes the casino lose money in the long run, they would want to get them out ASAP.
I worked for a casino for awhile. Every casino is a monument to losers. Those beautiful palaces aren't built on winners. They are built on losers. Every game is a sucker game. Every bet is a sucker bet. I would get depressed just walking through the place, because to me in exuded "looserism". No windows, no clocks on the wall, no natural light, and everywhere you look, hollow eyed losers. I used to sit at the blackjack table occasionally before I went to work there, but never once while I worked there. Every casino operates on the PT Barnum dictum "Never give a sucker an even break"!
I have only been to a casino a few times, but our local casino had printed flyers giving basic information about card counting and how to try and do it at the table. They made it clear you couldn't use any device or write anything down, but you were encouraged to try and do it in your head.
Now that sounds like a fun thing to try every once in a while 😆
Was probably a basic strategy card
@@Johnny2Feathers that’s what I’m thinking lol. They probably handed out basic strategy cards and people like the OP, thought it was strategy to count cards.
@@bt49730 honestly, from a casino standpoint its not a bad idea to encourage the learners. you will 100% lose money counting cards until you are virtually perfect, by giving people a spot to play it encourages them to play more hands for “practice” effectively winning the casino more money. nobodies going to look at a guide for counting cards and immediately pick it up. the casino could still back off people that are doing a little too well at counting.
@@aidendoig4542 I can agree to your standpoint as well. It helps encourage advantage play and majority of the time they may be making mistakes and losing money in the process. However, I feel like by encouraging people to advantage playing, it discredits the casinos credibility.
I was a dealer/pit supervisor in Vegas for 15 years. Most casinos won't back you off unless you are a really good card counter, most aren't. Even if you are counting you still have to get the right card to win.
My friend and I were counting cards at a table on the border of Vegas and California. We were small time betters but winning. This one guy sits down with mounds of $25 and $100 chips. He proceeds to clean out the dealer's chip tray in a short period of time. We were crapping our pants with excitement trying to figure out how he was doing it. The pit boss sent in multiple dealers to try and shake him up but it didn't work. He proceeded to empty another tray! His betting was really weird as it wasn't consistent and didn't seem to be based on the Basic Strategy or normal card counting system. He was an extremely advanced player. He amassed so many chips in front of him he had no room to play and eventually got colored up and left the table. They did not stop him from playing because he was hitting and doubling down almost completely opposite of what you should do. His play looked totally random but we knew it wasn't. Most awesome thing I had ever witnessed in a casino and they couldn't stop him.
If they're doing things that aren't basic strategy they're not a skilled player just a random lucky person.
This is called random luck. I guarantee you that guy has lost his huge stacks of hundreds playing this way. The house always wins, even with perfect basic strategy.
plot twist: it was a casino hired actor to encourage you to go balls to the wall
@z0hrd We didn't have bank like he did, though :)
The table was packed too. The Pitt boss went through 5 dealers of two trays of chips. The guy got mad at us for getting verbally excited one time and frowned at us. Most amazing thing I've ever seen. He had to have known what was coming. 🎩
@@davesmith3023 Well, yeah.
Casinos actually love this guy. And all other books, guides and content on how to be a card counter. They all make them millions of dollars. Lots of schmucks go to Vegas all pumped up just to find out that somehow they are not that good in counting cards.
There are people out there who need to do math with their fingers and thinking that they can count cards too
Yea you need to practice the skill (just like any other skill). A good computer simulation is a decent start but you gotta count on spending some amount of time at it
Why would you want to "rat out" another player? You're not trying to beat the other players; you are all trying to beat the dealer. Makes no sense!
It's really kind of dumb. It will also be ratting yourself out because they'll wonder how you know he was a counter.
Because gamblers are an obscure race of children who bet with their emotions, not their heads.
Most gamblers hate seeing others winning, especially if they're on a losing streak.
if you had a brain you would know it makes perfect sense
same people that tell their teacher they forgot to give everyone homework
Low key I know this one dealer at my local casino that I think counts and was helping me win a lil. She kept saying “shh shh” and would deal me 21 like 5-6 times in a row. Then she said “cash out” and I was like “nah one more” and I lost and she was like “seee”. She’s always been super nice to me at the other tables and I think she was just slightly helping me out.
possible she wanted yer nutz for either her or her 50 year old daughter
I think that you are dreaming.
Even if the dealer was counting herself its impossible for her to deal 5-6 21's on purpose, it just is. even when counting its still chance
@@joeyhummelman5061 The next suggested video is "Do Casinos Ever Cheat?".
“This guys going some MIT shit over here” that had me rolling 😂😂😂
I've had a pit boss sit across from me on a chair, and he just sat there staring at me as I was counting cards for a good 3 minutes, haha.
How's Sarah?
I probably would have told him it’s rude to stare and asked if he wanted anything
@@danielyuan9862 LOL!!!
Good luck getting an accurate count in 3 mins.
I got Backed Off one time with a free buffet offer. The Pit Boss walked over and told me, "You look hungry young man. Would you like to a comp for a free buffet?" I was about $600 up on a low table, $5 to 25 minimum bet table in Reno, I think. This was back in 1987ish. I took the hint and the free food, a very good buffet.
That's a pretty cool way to back someone off
That’s how casinos should do it. At least you’re compensated with free food
@@colonelpanic17 Always remember, if you are cool about it, they (most of the time) will be cool about it too.
"Alright pal, we can do this the easy way, or the hard way.."
"Oh the easy way, please! Definitely the easy way thank you."
@@cm55088 And don't forget I got a very full tummy as well. young and Military, I could eat a LOT! hehe😄
Very nicely put together video and very entertaining as well. Thanks for posting this.
I've worked many years in surveillance in the past and we had win thresholds for doing player evals that would trigger if a person won a certain amount. Then we would typically review 6 shoes or so and count with the player and use a form that tells us via a formula if a person is likely counting. It can produce false positives, but rarely was a player eval'ed for losing. Players who would play 1-5k per hand or more were live evaluated. We had to kick one guy out but not before he won $220k.
Im currently trying to get a job at a casino in their surveillance department. Should I mention card counting on my resume? Or should i not mention anything of the sort?
@@caymangeorge1851 I'd totally mention it. Already possessing the skill is a benefit. You must remember, the same way the FBI hires hackers, casinos hire card counters. You just have to make sure you don't get caught doing it at another property or you could jeopardize your gaming license.
@@vawus how much he win before kick
How often do counters get backroomed?
@@davidsmock8235 Pretty sure that only happens in the movies. I've worked in retail loss prevention and in casino surveillance and the potential exposure to lawsuits for detaining somebody against their will is massive. I know retail shops are so scared of "bad stops" (where someone doesn't have the merchandise you detained them for) that if it happens even one time, you're fired. It's a huge financial liability. And that is them reacting to something that is actually illegal, versus a casino reacting to something that isn't illegal. Could you imagine getting detained against your will for something that isn't even illegal? Good God, I would pray for it to happen honestly. They better kill you or you're gonna find a pro bono lawyer and have a slam dunk civil case. Sue for millions and they'll settle for possibly hundreds of thousands. They could send the hitman when the lawsuit comes if they are truly mobsters. Most casinos aren't mobsters. Backroom detention ain't gonna happen unless the on-site gaming commission agents have you (they are actual law enforcement) in which case they are just gonna trespass you and you leave. If you're only dealing with casino staff and the state gaming agents aren't involved, ain't gonna happen and you can walk away from them like they aren't even talking to you. They are civilians with no authority to demand anything from you or hold you against your will for ANYTHING. Retail loss prevention is a different story. They are legally allowed to headlock you, slam you on the ground, and cuff you to hold you until police arrive (if you resist apprehension). It's a citizen arrest because you actually committed a crime. I know because I've done it more times than I can count haha.
Colin, I am ALWAYS amazed at the content you guys keep delivering regularly! This is all so so so important and together with your website, book and app I purchased I have learned an immeasurable amount over the past years! Even though I've gotten pretty good at my game thanks to regular training and learning, I don't think I'd do that well in a real world environment so I just enjoy playing for fun with the app as a kind of brain training (just like others do Sudoku or other math games on the side) :)
In any case, THANK you and your team for all the valuable content and resources, it's amazing that you guys still upload and publish such awesome explainers regularly after all this time and for free!! Thanks for everything you share!
Sincerely, a BJA fan.
You need to do more card counter stories videos, I could listen to those for hours.
What do you call a surveillance agent playing blackjack in another casino? A card counter. It's true. As a former surveillance operator turned card counter, every one of us, as part of our training, had to know perfect basic strategy and how to keep the count. It's even more fun to use your skills as an advantage player against the casino that fired you after they taught you how to do it
My casino bans us for life if we are fired.
Can you explain 2:40 to me
Very interesting n informative vid. Enjoyed ur listing of the many ways. Kudos for the upload. New subscriber because of this vid. Looking forward to ur next one. Peace
I don't know if this ever happened to you, maybe it has, but you didn't know. Playing single deck the casino switched dealers and I started consistently losing really high counts. I had a friend with me who always watched my back. He was a professional magician. He was able to spot that the dealer was peeking at the top card and then dealing seconds. So, instead of making a scene, the casino sends in a 'hit' dealer to take their money back.
if you friend could back up his spot on the dealer, you should have fucked up the dealer and eventually pitboss. Then go away with your money.
The house will shuffle more if the table is full and they can't send in a saboteur.
that doesnt sound legal. or is it?
@@darealrulezbreaker9493 who cares. Aslong as the goverment gets a cut out of it. We peasants need to shut up and just accept it
@@darealrulezbreaker9493 Doesn't matter if it is or isn't, its your word against theirs, and they have an army of lawyers that will absolutely crush you with legal fees until you're bankrupt. The house always wins.
If you see Colin playing, just follow his betting pattern, duh.
Hell yea haha why would you ever tell on someone who is winning???
Facts
@@dpsheals Jealousy. And being annoyed that he is only playing when the count is good, whereas they are playing the bad shoes.
All the dealers I have tell me not to ruin the flow of the cards
@@Phlegethon there is no “flow of the cards” and don’t let anyone try to rattle you on that. If the count is positive than play it no matter what, you’re there to win while others are there to gamble and lose
When I was a dealer for 2 years, I only ever had a couple people count on my tables, and they were never any good. Bad betting, inaccurate count in general. Told my Pit and he said ''I know, they aren't very good though so we let them play.''
I logged a couple thousand hours counting just at work haha.
I worked Atlantic City for 22 years as a dealer, and 2 years in Florida as a surveillance agent. In AC, card counters could not be banned but they would shuffle the decks if they suspected you to be counting. If they suspected you were card counting, surveillance would tape your play, and a floorperson would go into a room with the tape and watch it for hours if necessary and determine if you were counting cards. If you were, your name went into the casinos computer system and a memo attached describing you as a card counter. This is how, along with the following, they KNOW you are counting cards.
As a surveillance agent, we received an 8x10 1 inch thick book published only for casinos that was completely full of casino card, dice, slots etc., cheaters. Names, photos, addresses and methods of cheating were all in this book, if remember correctly, published 4 times a year. Basically a "TOP SECRET" document for the casinos to detect cheaters.
You, my friend, are definately in that book!
Excuse my confusion, but how exactly is card counting classed as cheating?
It’s a legitimate technique to improve your odds of winning.
Unfortunately it comes down to the basic fact that casino’s are in the business of separating you from your money, over time, with your willing engagement under the illusion of potentially winning….
The only way to beat a casino is with a piece of 2 by 4.
@@tornagawn Back in late 90's it cost the Taj Mahal one million dollars a day just to stay in business. That was their cost. Casinos aren't in business to give you money, but they will allow you to GAMBLE and let you take some of theirs if you're lucky. The casinos typically hold 17% of every dollar you buy in for. Does that mean everyone loses? Not at all. But turning the odds in your favor by counting takes away the gambling part of gaming, and they can't survive it the odds were turned against them.
@@Kevin-ib4gv So, if the game is no longer random, don’t let anyone play!
My sympathy for Casino’s isn’t that great.
@@tornagawn Neither is their sympathy for card counters and that's why they bar them. In my 22 years as a dealer they don't even consider a card counter a threat unless you bet black, which in case you don''t know, are $100.00 chips. Bet nickels and quarters (5.00 & 25.00) chips all day long and count to your hearts content. You're not a threat.
card counting isn't cheating because it's math, you can't make it illegal to think
If you see Colin playing it’s actually a free test out cause he’s probably counting correctly so if your bets don’t correlate you have a problem
was thinking that exact same thing
90% of card counters tell on themselves. Pushing your bet from table minimum to table max in one hand will alert any floor/shift with any sense to what you are up to. Play smart while you are playing smart.
in most cases... played table min to two spots of table max and they literally gave no shits this weekend. good for me i guess. Pretty sure heard pit boss mention that she gave "them" all the tools they need. If they dont catch on, "not my problem".
The problem is that card counters mathematically MUST tell on themselves. If your bet isn't following the count, your whole advantage is destroyed. Counting cards and 'staying under the radar' are mutually exclusive. Much of the video here glosses over this issue, depending on the incompetence of casino employees to spot what is obvious to see to anyone who knows blackjack and counting.
There is tons of ways they get caught. I can usually identify one within 10 minutes of play. How they handle chips is one. How fast they play is another. Perfect basic strategy is another as 99% of BJ players deviate from basic strategy. If you talk with one during a hand his eyes bounce back and forth from you to the game so he can keep the count. This is just a little taste of the things they do to rat themselves out. I have zero issue with card counters, I am fascinated by what they do. The people who pay my salary do not like them.
This information in this video is about 6-7 years behind my casino's detection methods and I would not call us on the cutting edge of the technology.
@@octobrix8056 Care to share?
I had no clue how there are many people that don't want to see others win. This really open my eyes and allow me to see how human beings really are. Not just from a game stand point but from a reality stand point. This has really changed my life even though I don't play blackjack or know how to count cards.- Thanks for keeping it real.
The next time you are in a group and see some random person make a mistake and hurt themselves, notice in the group the reactions. Some of the group, I'll bet you, will laugh and snicker with glee. Others will express empathy. Whichever type you are, it's hard to imagine being the other type.
Yep,this is real life especially when involved with money.
I tried to be a card counter in mid 😮90’s. In my experience with downtown single deck downtown casinos (horseshoe/pioneer), the dealer would simply shuffle on plus count hands when someone at the table was varying bets.
Hey Colin! It would be very useful if you can make a video on the differences between american and europe blackjack, like strategy, statistics and etc. Love from Europe.
I was just binge watching this channel. So glad to refresh my feed and see a new video.
Same!!
Dude you make the best vids for blackjack…I could take you to the next level…let me know when you are ready
I used to work security at a Casino. We had a log book with all the pictures of permanent ejections. I only saw a couple of ones in the book for card counting. I know the shoe has three decks of cards in it, so it blew my mind that someone was doing that, and even more, they were able to catch them.
I can't really understand the people who defend casinos "they are private business bro".
Imagine going to a circus or similar carnaval. A guy shouts throw a basketball 3 times in the row and win. Everyone fails so he's happy. Then you come who played basketball all your life and easily hit it 3 times. You win, but the guy bans you from the circus/carnaval.
You don't get banned by winning once. You get banned by consistently winning, and costing the casino/carnival money. A carnival prize is likely going to be worth less to the carnival than even the price of a single play of the game, or at the very most will only cost the carnival a few cents after considering the price of the game. Meanwhile, a casino will always lose money to a winning player, due to the nature of gambling.
@@thetechconspiracy2 money always coming in and money always coming out
exactly - things need to change.
imagine if you could have a 110% revenue by counting and leading the casino to be at a 10% deficit for as long as you are playing. it is straight up losing money. now the carnival prizes are worth like 1$ or 2$. sometimes the big prizes is worth like 5$. you still have to pay to try to win and often the amount you payed to even play is more than the prize you win
I don't think that people are agreeing with casinos' practices. They're just saying that casinos have the right to do so as private businesses, which they do whether it's right or wrong. Don't support the business if you don't agree with their practices.
Bro I was hoping a new vid would come out! Awesome!
I was just thinking, “I need to count through a deck” because I’ve been practicing a lot lately.
Come to Vegas. We’re waiting for you. ;)
I’m not old enough to go to a casino or even know what card counting is, but I watched the whole video
I don’t count cards but once just had a great winning streak with big bets. I couldn’t lose that afternoon, it was just luck. I was playing basic strategy but nothing more. By the time I hit the streak there were literally 7 casino employees just staring at me, three behind , the pit boss and his boss, a supervisor and someone else who I couldn’t place. There were phone calls being made, one of the guys writing things in a notebook. That group drew a crowd of other customers wondering what the fuss was about. I split aces, two more aces, then 2 21s a 20 and an 18 as dealer busts. I just shrug my shoulders and played on. I joked to the boss I clearly wasn’t counting as I played every hand and never changed the bet amount. He agreed, laughed and they left me in peace…
I was playing in downtown Vegas around 3am at a place I'll call the Ivy Monarchs. It was a $10 table, but the guy next to me whipped out $9k and was asking to raise the table max. The other players just kind of copied him, doubling their bets whenever he did. The pit boss thought all 5 players were in on it, but hesitated to act because the $9k guy was losing. They even sent in random single 'tourists' at 6am to ask how long we've known each other. It was comical.
Funny how casino cries when it gives a little bit of winnings
Casinos control everything. They are watching you while you play whether it's slots or card games. They watch everyone. They have special teams who watch camera footage 24/7
Bookmakers do this all the time!
I know what you mean, but it's not like "cry" it's more like "oh no he's taking our money kick him out before we actually cry"
You're cheating if you win.
there's a very interesting video or even research paper to be made on how much money casinos save by kicking out good counters vs how much they sink or never see from all the efforts they take to spot counters and kicking out bad ones like you said.
I'd be very interested to get even rough percentages of good vs bad counters and counters vs non counters a casino sees on average. It must be an incredibly tiny fraction of their total patronage who are actually winning big
While very interesting it would be incredibly hard to do.... not only would it be impossible to get data from the casinos, it would be very difficult to separate out true costs and $$ won/lost. Keep in mind that card counters aren't breaking any rules and they are only _improving_ their chances of winning, not guaranteeing it... so how do you differentiate a "bad" counter from a counter who just lucked out that night?
Also, a casino isn't sinking any additional resources into card counters that aren't already there to identify actual cheaters... all the surveillance, equipment, pit bosses, and even each game's rules are designed first & foremost to prevent cheating. And as blackjack only makes up a portion of the games at most casinos, the impact to the casino's bottom line is going to be hard to quantify.
Personally, I agree that card counters make up a very small portion of most casinos' patrons and an even smaller number of them are successful. Given how readily they can mitigate a card counter's advantage with things like multiple decks, shuffling, etc, I can only assume that those casinos who choose not to bother either don't see card counting as a big problem _and/or_ they are banking on identifying advantage players _after_ they have put money down but _before_ they win too big at the tables.
I work at a casino and a lot of people don’t know this but when a casino backs you off the table because they know your counting cards they label you as a “advantage player” they put your name in a nationwide database that every casino in the U.S. has access to. The casino gets your information from player cards or when they ask for an ID before you buy in at a table and even at the cashier when you go cash in your chips.
Depends on the casino what database they purchase, there are a number of different ones. There is also a free one out there but man that interface sucks on it. I also find if you fail to type in the exact name of the card counter it won't work, for the free one, that is. The paid one we utilize works great and its got a nice facial recognition software if I can't get a name on a person.
Card counting isn't even cheating, Casino's are literally just a giant scam building. If I want a gamble, I'll invest in the stock market, at least then I don't really lose my money unless I sell for less than I bought.
4real Counting cards shouldnt even be a topic
Fr, casinos, carnivals, and arcade games are all just scams for the stupid.
Carnivals will subtly change things purposely to rig it against you, and by the time you even win a prize, you probably paid 5x the amount it actually was worth.
Arcade games are even worse, you'll never win a single stack em game unless you press down the exact millisecond on the final layer. Aside from that, the rest of the other arcade games are pre-coded to only let players win after a certain amount of plays.
You could also lose your investment if the company goes bankrupt, insolvency. See WorldCom, Enron. K-Mart didn't even completely go under, all the shares just went to zero and they reorganized with a new set of share holders. I know, because I had K-Mart stock in the 1990's when the did that stunt.
Simple rule:
casinos win.
Punters lose.
What's tricky about that concept?
Many years ago was a "back of house" security consultant working with several large casino customers. To do my job I had to learn how each area in the casino operated. To my surprise no single individual seemed to know the operational intricacies of each part of the casino. Now ten years later when I go to new casino within the first hour of my visit they address me by name "welcoming me to the casino" in effect letting me know they know my identity. Keep in mind I was one of the "good" guys keeping the casino safe. My point is, yes they do use facial recognition software. And at least the Native American owned casinos do share their customers (good and bad) digital image and information.
How do you get into stuff like that? I would honestly love to get into this kind of work, I'm a magician and ever since I was a kid I've been fascinated with gambling "cheats" (I know counting isn't technically cheating but you know what I mean), I've never been the type of person who could actually cheat someone, but I've built up quite a lot of knowledge on how to do it over the years. Darwin Ortiz's stories of working as a security consultant always sounded so cool lol
you are full of it, facial recognition software isnt' good enough to do anything you say
@@houseofaction lol what makes you think that? the software is very advanced
@@houseofaction it definitely is. It might not be able to do the same on the streets, where cameras are rarer and you are moving, but sitting for tens of minutes under cameras is enough to get a good shot. Some very basic software can make a shortlist, and then it's possible for humans to verify if needed.
I’m so happy I’ve seen these videos and took this seriously
Thanks for the explanation.
Hi Colin, I have a question or potential video idea (although it may be too short for a whole video): when/how often do you convert from running to true count? In principle you have to know the true count before every round to choose your bet. But in my opinion, for example if the count is negative, or positive but low at the start of the shoe, you can basically avoid the additional mental load of converting. It's also connected to the topic of bet spread, when you up the bet size at a true 2 and there are 4 decks left, you'd know you need at least a running 8 below which you wouldn't start converting before every hand, to lower the amount of mental processes. Or do you just convert every hand?
With me it's a continuous fraction going in my head, especially since the true count, unlike the running count, is an estimated figure and seldom a whole number anyway.
Running count is the numerator and the estimated decks in play the denominator
What a fantastic video. Truly I God smiles on me if I get to enjoy content this good.
I used to work in the industry, the local card counters were well known. I was a dealer at the time and if you’re tipping then I am dealing, and would continue until the floor supervisor came over. If you are a known non-tipper, the supervisor gets called over immediately. Take from that what you will.
It's appalling to me that another player would point you or any counter out. I always root for just about everyone. Anyway best wishes and keep winning. This started to bring back some memories. Back when gambling passed in Indiana when they had the river boats I found a great dealer. I usually keep a pretty positive attitude at the table and try to get everyone involved having fun even the dealer. I got on a pretty good basis with that dealer and we started a good relationship at the table. So he ended up being aware that I was just learning the game as well as starting to count and he would actually slow down when it was time to put out a bet to let me know to press the bet more. That ended up being a great relationship at the tabels and made some good money. Thanks for putting all the information out there I truly appreciate your time and effort.
My friend called out a card counter sitting next to us then the card counter and his friends beat the crap out of us both in the parking lot.
@@Ivan.A.Trulyuski looooool don’t snitch
@@Ivan.A.Trulyuski as he deserves
As a dealer, I can't stand players snitching on eachother like that.
If I get a card counter, the only worry in my head is how they're treating me.
I'm courteous and nice to all my guests, and expect the same treatment back.
@@Ivan.A.Trulyuski lol snitches get stitches!
Colin is the real deal! Another great video!!!
totally fresh to this world, so many questions. What is backing off? Ev's? anyways god bless yall have a great one.
Estou constantemente inspirado por você.
My dad was a pit boss (started as a dealer and now a manager) and he was notoriously a card counters worst nightmare, he would always tell us stories of how he would catch them all the time. What’s really interesting is when you actually talk to him, he has no problems with card counting and thinks it’s pathetic that casinos try to stop it, but if he doesn’t catch it then he doesn’t have a job.
Fair. Your dad is not the bad guy. Is the casino.
@@ACEDshooter He was just following orders lol
I'm betting in a lot of cases people were taking it to a level he couldn't turn a blind eye.
Could have done a less unethical job.
@@pepaigeaNazi soldiers was just following orders too
Nice to see a new one, Colin! If I ever see you at the table, I will just smile, and pretend you are grading my play.
While I have been practicing a lot at home, and have been playing pretty conservative when in the casino, I sometimes still get a little paranoid that I am going to get backed off, even though I don't think my play is anywhere near skilled enough yet to get backed off. I am anticipating that some of those thoughts will start to dissipate with more experience at the table, and will also help enable me to stay more focused on the game itself.
If your play is anything less than perfect you need to practice more as you are on a losing road without perfect play.
You are right about staff. Why a staffer is present or kept is a real mystery. I recently went to a craps session where I had not been for about a year. With 2 craps tables not a single face was familiar. Not ever the suits. HOWEVER, the weakest dealer they had was dealing another game. He has overpaid the most to me. Which is fine, even their geeky kids who demonstrated they knew the math and the bets have overpaid me, while we talked about the subject of 'other dealers' not being on top of their game. So, yes, in any given casino the rules of who can do what, including suits are strict.
Thank you RUclips suggestions, I can now start a card counting career.
Just experienced my first back off ever at the El Cortez. Thanks BJA! Took their money before it happened and I can finally say that I got backed off at the famous El Cortez haha. Even though they sweat any action above minimum it’s still a bit validating lol.
El Cortez is so sweaty. When I was spreading from 25 $ to 125 $ on a single deck at El Cortez, the pit boss came and told the dealer to shuffle mid-deck on any high bet that she sees me make.
You’re the goat Colin, these videos taught me everything I needed to know. I will buy a BJA membership one day when I grow my bankroll enough, just to show appreciation.
If your Bankroll cant cover BJA you don't have a bankroll... its less than 40 bucks a month
@@MrCrisco145 isn’t it like 300$ upfront? I have a small 4000 bankroll that I am building, and I have a shit job so if I have to replenish it would be quite slowly.
@@MrCrisco145 broke AF but on the way to vegas
@@MrCrisco145 No it isn't. Forum membership is reasonable but the training course is thousands of dollars.
The first move I get is a dealer gets replaced. I always thought that's was to make sure the dealer wasn't helping me. Invariably the new dealer is very fast at dealing and removing cards, next, the pit boss lingers at the table. I rarely overstay my welcome, however, as I count for fun, not to make a living.
Do you have any baccarat recommendations?
Love your videos. Wondering if you play baccarat at all.
"If you see me at the table, just ignore me. Don't rat me out" The words of a living legend.
As a dealer I can safely say that at the casino I work at, they will only speak to you if they know for a fact you're card counting.
Bro why deal you ruin peoples lives with drug
@@tomjj2743 1 I make good money.2, people ruin their own lives by choosing to go to a casino when they don't have the money. Their choice, not mine
@@jonahgoodrich7708 except that’s not how it works. People don’t go to casinos if there aren’t any.
@@jacobdaniels3246 And casinos wouldn't exist if people wouldn't go there to spend all their money
@@jacobdaniels3246 it works both ways
When I wrote the updated blackjack rules for the MGM casino in Darwin, Australia I did not include card counting. There are not that many efficient counters out there. Indeed, with 6 or even 8 decks with 2 decks cut off and the use of automatic card shufflers (meaning you are playing against a continuous deck) - there is no benefit to counting. I read the book "Beat the Dealer' by Thorpe in the 60's. Counting was good then when you could still find single and two deck games.
In my experience there are some cool dealers that actually try to help you. They’ll say things like, “I would bet more if I were playing this hand.” I’m sure they’re counting, but dealing those cards all day long, I think they really get a “knack” for it.
and the fact is that most people who attempt to count cards fail to turn a profit. For me, even 1 single drink of alcohol messes up my counting and i give up and have a good time. With no alc, I can kind of get it but not guaranteed >50% so they'll help me like you said.
@@anderivative well, I think the advantage is averaged. Nobody knows the next card, or remaining sequence in the shoe. I have one drink to take the edge off. But counting takes a lot of practice. Dealers and security know how to count too. So they can spot an amateur a mile away. Watching your eyes follow every card slowly thinking. They usually don’t care here at the Indian casinos in CT, unless your at the high roller table and making big money. If you’re playing a $10 or $25 minimum, they don’t care. But as mentioned previously some dealers are just cool people and want to see some players winning sometimes, or they’re just miserable assholes like in “Vegas Vacation” with Chevy Chase.
can you describe 2:40 to me.
I recently played blackjack at the casino for the first time ever and I honestly had beginners luck and was doing really good and I legit, no lie, got backed off and was told I can’t play until the next shoe and I was like ????? …. It was crazy to see how upset it made everybody to see me winning to the point they backed me off… What I learned about casinos is you’re not allowed to win?
being backed off if you're not actively successfully counting cards is gangster as fukk. Do that in front of a honey fukk yeah
You're not supposed to win!
That's the whole point....
Colin can you make a video on comps I know it is possible to play a break-even game playing rated and with basic strategy maybe even with a slight edge before card counting if you confirm this or dispel this in detail that would be awesome
Many moons ago I could count Omega II. I asked a pit boss about counting once and he said their issue is not the counting but the bet spread. He said if a player keeps the bet range spread one to four or one to five nobody is going to say anything. He said the problem is the person that goes from one to 20 because if you win the 20 the casino can't ever have the opportunity to win that back.
As a kid I loved playing card games (still do) and I also love math ( especially when it comes to video game stuff) and when I was a kid I would count cards just naturally. I didn't know what card counting was or even that I was doing it. I just liked math and would count the cards but since I was a kid while I played I would tell my mom or grandma stuff like "Better take that card now. It's the last four and you need it." I remember once when I was playing with my mom and grandma and my grandma said to my mom "I think she's counting cards?" And my mom said "Yeah. She's always done that." Just kinda funny. Just a little kid who liked math and would instinctually count cards and then I would help the people I was playing with. Lol.
It’s all about the math 👍. Math was always my strong suit 🤣. My first win was on a school bus trip in 5th grade and the coach knew all about it and all were impressed. See My folks were contract bridge champions so I learned to play that by the age of 12. What math teachers couldn’t figure out in like advanced algebra & trig was I knew the answer but could not explain how. It wasn’t until college that I took Finite Math and had an A because it’s all Matrixes! I was using matrixes the whole time. By the time I was of legal age for the casinos I would go to the tables and win big 3 out of 5 nights. The key is go in prepared to lose X amount and if you do just walk out & when you win big do the same. ☮️
The number 1 reason why players get backed off:
They are winning.
As a dealer/pit boss of ten years, I have to say, facts. We had a list of people we flagged for possible counting, and only finally approached two of them to put them on special rules. What had they done differently? They were ahead on the year (something like 10k ahead after 100k in). That was it.
Dealers should love when they have counters at their tables. I know when I'm counting and winning I'm tipping very nicely, bigger the win, bigger the tip!
You're not wrong, but the Venn diagram of good tippers and good counters had a very thin overlap.
@@jacobharstad5696 ah gotcha makes sense
Although I’ve never mastered card counting I do fluctuate my bets and switch up from playing 1 hand to 2 or 3 if there is room depending on how the cards are running. Doing this and knowing basic strategy at least gives me a fighting chance
I would imagine the casinos watch your videos. I know that some casinos train their dealers to watch for card counters. Also I imagine the methods casinos use would be different in a big casino versus a very small casino.
Hey Colin, I’m French and I kinda like black Jack and your videos so first thanks for that.
And I was wondering if you could do an explanation on how the way European black Jack is dealt impacts the game on basic strategies and care counting ?
( cause in France for example the dealers doesn’t have 2 cards and reveals the second he only gets one then he hits only after the players are done playing)
Do you know if that changes anything concerning basic strategy and is there any chance I can take an advantage of it?
I heard than in Europe most casinos use continuous shuffle machines. If that is true then card counting will not work. The reason cars counting works is because the deck is finite. Continuous shuffle machines effectively make the deck infinite.
One of the reasons back offs can be slow is as pointed out in the video casinos make much more money out of people trying to card count unsuccessfully than they lose to good card counters. Card counting in real play in not as straightforward as people assume
This is the best comment so far. As a Casino employee I have had lots of "Counters" that after I watched their play I was more than happy to watch them take a shitter. 10% of counters are really good at what they do, The rest are posers.
Couple of tips 1) order a strong drink
2) tip the dealer 3) double your bets when favorable 4). After a great end to a shoe don’t leave. Stay leave your bets up Good luck !
I've never card counted, I don't know basic strategy, I've never played blackjack for money, but I enjoy the videos.
I suggest people watch videos of confrontations with Pit Bosses from card counting.
It could be traumatizing to have to deal with the worst of the worst as your first experience, so it is good to have ideas about how things CAN go.
Some youtuber showed that there are pit bosses and security who will lie to you to get you to show your ID or to prevent you from cashing out.
Know you laws before you start playing for money or else you can be manipulated with lies.
Also certain casinos in certain areas have different laws, so be sure you know the laws about the casino you are going to.
Don't confuse "our policy" with "is the law you are forced to follow".
Stay safe and know the law before you get threatened with it and before they try to take all your money.
something that happened to me when I played as the loser so my friend could get introduced to counting (with the help of another person at the table we didn't know) was the dealer would shuffle every hand with a 6 deck set so the count would restart and they got a blackjack almost every time.
I was in a casino this one time. I stood beside an automated roulette wheel watching how the ball bounced until I watched it enough to bet it would land on 36 red. I don't gamble so I only put in a euro. Sure enough it landed on 36 red, then the machine shut down and I didn't get my money. I told the security guard who shrugged and said "That's gambling."
More like "That's grounds to have the casino investigated by men in nice suits with a moving van."
I am sure the 36 euro payout was going to break them. Any issue in the delivery of a hand kills the hand as dead. No winners will be paid and no loser will be taken. If the integrity of the game is compromised in any instance it is a dead hand.
@@Bigernmcrakn I'm not sure why they'd do it. Possibly they didn't know how much i bet or saw that i was observing the pattern and shut it off before I could make a second bet.
I once played online casino roulette with Centrebet which recides in Australia. The country I live in is so f**ked up with banning private company casinos that Centrebet isn't serving us anymore. The government only wants government run gambling so they can get all the money. I think I have a fairly good brain for spotting patterns. So I gave it a go and had okay luck or my pattern recognition worked for me that time. After 3-4 hours of floating in the plus, because playing outside bets mixed with inside, they literally flipped the numbers of the wheel on reverse/ mirrored on me, without flipping the digit mirrored. I googled a reversed image of a European wheel and continued floating in plus 😂
I don't know how this is possible to do such a mirrored wheel without mirroring the numbers also. Because the live video of the wheel looked so authentic, at least to me
My personal favorite. A guy was CLEARLY counting cards. Because he was drunk(ish. probably more affected than real), he was buying drinks for the table, tipping the dealer, he was being left 'alone'. (pit boss was eagle eyeing him, but not doing anything.) When the count changed the guy left, and we kept playing. I'm one of those 'math guys' I can do basic math quickly in my head, (-memory is n't good enough for real counting). and I realized, that guy won about $1,500 bucks plus or minus tips and drinks. Everyone else at the table, in the same time period LOST about $700 and were still playing. In 2 hours time the house still won $2000 off our table. To this day, I wonder if the guy was a casino plant, because by watching him win, all of us were thinking, 'wow, look a that guy winning, That could be me if I play just a little longer....'
You don't need anything more than a very average memory for card counting - you just need to remember one number, and even that is just for seconds as the number keeps changing +1 or -1.
In Australia we have 1 or 2 casinos in major cites.all blak jack is Aud $15 minimum table to 20, 30 and 50 then private rooms all with shuffle machines
“What’s my point with this… I don’t know… casinos are dumb I guess” 😂 😂 😂
I remember at the beginning of my training I was doubling down on hard 20s because I didn't realize I had to take another card and it said "Wrong! You should've stayed!"
I also didn't know whether to hit or stand on stiff hands (especially hard 16)
Answer: Stand 13-16 vs 2-6, S12 vs 4-6, 16 vs 10 at a positive running count (assuming you can't surrender), hit the rest of your stiff hands.
Help me understand 2:40
Does that cards counting strategy also works for the casino apps like governor of poker.
Because the thing is that in mobile apps the deck is being shuffled EVERY SINGLE GAME!
At the house I work for we just call surveillance and let them handle it. Pretty easy to spot the counters but it’s up to the eye to make the call(literally) and then we back them off.
I sat by a guy recently who I thought was counting. But at the exact moment when I was about to drop out because the shoe was so negative, he doubled his bet. The running count was -12 at the time
I just counted for the first time. I was playing a 1-12 spread with a $10 unit. Nobody could have cared less
I was in the casino business for 30 years. I used to love it whenever someone told me that they have a system. I said that's great! Just think, after you lose all your money, you'll still have your system!
My wife had been a dealer in Reno. Back in the day; we were in Las Vegas one time she was at a table where the dealer was dealing seconds to one of the players. This was at a mob owned place which has long since been torn down.
Can you do more videos like this more often?
I didnt even i was getting "sweated" until this video lmao i was just chilling wasn't even counting yet just getting really really lucky while increasing and decreasing my bet
I watched the vid, and read a few comments as well. However, nobody seemed to mention that actual card counting is that it is NOT illegal (in Nevada at least). It IS however, illegal to use any device, or method of recording the counts, or what cards are already played. That is very illegal in Nevada and at least will get you "asked to leave", and can result in jail time, and massive fines. Time was when the punishment was way more severe, and did not involve any form of law enforcement - but you 'got the message' none the less.
Can’t believe me and my friends were talking about casinos and I ended up finding this the moment I get on youtube.
I've had a couple notice what I was up to, one even asked me where I'd like him to put the cut card. Dude literally placed it like ten cards from the back of a six deck shoe. Got to a True 5 during that game. Lol thx dealer bro
I still don't get the whole cut card and shoe thing. Is there a video that explains that well?
@@mikeymasi Not that I know of. So the cut card is typically a piece of rubber or plastic that is colored and is placed somewhere in the shoe (the shoe is the box that contains all of the decks of cards the casino uses for their Blackjack game), typically towards the end. As the game progresses and the dealer dispenses cards to all of the players, the dealer gets closer and closer to the end of the shoe. They will eventually reach that cut card, and once they do, the house (casino) requires them to end the game and perform a shuffle.
The reason why is because they do this to deter card counters. If someone is using the hi-lo method, then if their counting game is perfect, they would end at a perfect zero at the end of the shoe (confirming they counted everything right). Casinos added cut cards to limit card counters deck penetration (how many decks/cards get dealt to the player). The more decks you play through and the less that is cut off means more rounds for the player, and potentially higher counts that can generate the player more EV (money).
@@chriscarlone527 The game wasn't rigged enough, huh.
@@Quackerilla Not sure I get what you mean. What do you mean rigged? In my favor? It isn't without using your brain and paying attention.
@@Quackerilla It took me four months to get your meaning. Lol
I think I may be a litttlllee slow.
"Just ignore me, don't rat me out." You're golden buddy. If I ever see you at the table, most you'll get is a slight nod.
definitely be meeting up in the parking lot to shake hands.
I have a pretty good win to loss ratio over the last 40 years, though I'm not a card counter. I just have certain rules I play and live by. I visualize myself winning. Back in the 80's I need $1250 for a down payment on a car. I drove to Reno, did my visuilation thing. Played for about an hour won $1250 when I was leaving the table, a couple of the other players said we've been here all day an no one has won anything except you, I just smailed and walked away. This last summer I was up at Tahoe, not in a real game mood. I played for about 20 minutes and won about $500 then they started changing the dealer on me, so I took the money and walked, thats all I played. I play to win and I walk with my winnings. That's my intention... I've been suspected as a counter, though never learned.
I was Count Team at my casino in New Jersey. The ONLY way under NJ regulations I could use cameras was for Surveillance to have a stand alone monitor in an outer office to view the one game I have a suspected counter on. Only there I could view and document their play. Otherwise,. I had to do it in the pit.
Can you explain 2:40 to me
@@glungusgongus You mean if the dealer suspects a counter? Or do you mean how a dealer increased his expected ev? The only thing I can think of he could help "legally" is maybe side counting for him. But, if a dealer appears to be helping, there would be "hell to pay" when he gets caught. Also, most dealers really can't count. Many think they do but, not as well as they think.