Let's be clear. It's 308, it's always been 308 and it will always be 308. It doesn't kick as hard as other rounds, easier to buy than 6.5 and I doubt there is a rifle out there that isn't chambered in it. And you can get nice lightweight rifles as well. To be honest, I'm up here in MT, my son shoots 6.5 because it's the "cool" caliber, on buddy shoots 30-06 because it's a "classic", another buddy is all but wedded to 270 and I'm at 308. I can use it in my bolt guns, my lever action, and my scary black rifles. And...It's pretty much ALWAYS in stock even when other people are visiting their 12th store trying to find ammo. Just picked up 6.5 Creemore for the son... $43 dollars a box! Good Lord! 30-06, out of stock. 270? lol, nowhere to be found. But there is a whole shelf of 308.
Look at the 6.5 PRC. I think this will all but replace the .270. Ammo for the PRC is scarce now, but really everything is. I currently have a .308 so I'm a fan boy, but I'm really looking in to the 6.5 prc for the fact it has a high BC for Elk and Moose and don't forget of you like to shoot 1000yds plus.
Son-in-law bought an AR-10 in 6.5 Creedmore and now regrets it...$43/box. So I built an AR-10 in .308 and see shelves full at $24/box.... Still love my .243 though.
I am over 70 years old and have been shooting since I was 8, having been taught by my grandfather who was a competition shooter. The 30-06 is what I cut my teeth on with my first gun a WWII 30-06 Springfield Rifle purchased from an add in a magazine for $15.00 dollars. By the time I was 12, I could bench shoot that rifle at 100 yards, with open sights, to 1 1/2 inch groups. This training came in handy in the military and later contractor jobs I would have. Yes, I have used many different calibers over the years but always came back to the old 06 mostly because of its versatility (white tail deer? 150 grain bullet, elk? 180 grain bullet, moose and brown bear? 220 grain bullet). My favorite caliber was the .270 but it is so damned limited in bullet weights (I think that is about to change however and I hope it does). So, how do I feel about bullet drop and recoil? LEARN TO FRIGGIN SHOOT!!!
I don't say this lightly. This is by far my favorite RUclips channel at this moment. This is the first time in my life I feel compelled to actually send money though patreon (don't know if you have one). 1. They give info that can be easily digested. 2. They give info I actuall like, and always have fresh subjects. 3. They give a perspective on the lifestyle of a passionate shooter people tend to gloss over. 4. No bias, they say somethings good? I buy it immediately! I don't know the people behind backfire at all, but I can't help but root for em'! From my somewhat honest heart Thank you. God bless.
So, this clown starts up with the current lie fad go hunt brown bears in Alaska with 9mm & 10 mm Glock handguns you would do it! I am 63 years old then have been a professional hunting guide full time since 1976. I work the Pacific NW to Alaska and in the Carpathian Mountains of Romania, so I find this clowns advice not a good Idea to take seriously. Like this clown telling people not well informed about guns - ammo and hunting some cartridge is the best in the world for deer, well that cartridge might be great for east coast deer hunting shooting deer from a tree stand but come to the west coast then the hunter would be under gunned to shoot over the massive canyons of the Pacific NW. He is telling people to use deer guns to hunt Elk which are known to be tough animals to put down. There is way too much of this garbage video's giving bad info.
I’m 69 years old and taken 22 elk in my life. One elk I killed with a 45-70, 25 weatherby mag, one with a 7mm mag, three with a 308, and 16 with a 280 Remington. I hated the 7mm mag, it caused me to flinch big time (it was magnaported). The weatherby was flat shooting and though it drop the elk on contact I worried it was not enough gun. The 308 was a a Remington 660, light to carry, very effective but I sold it to a friend. I’ve owned a plethora of 280’s. But I’ve hunted the last twenty years with a hart built 700 Remington. It shoots sub -moa with a shepherd 3-9 scope and my last elk was almost 400 yards and drop on the shot. I’m not a great shot, but grandpa said, “beware of the man that shoots one gun.” And my baby is my Hart built 700 Remington 280. It taken over 100 deer, 16 elk, a dozen antelope, and nice axis buck. I know when the bullet leaves the barrel, that critter is dead.
I killed 5 elk with a 25-06. 4 were mine and no problem, but the last one was while guiding. The cow was wounded (7mm Rem mag) with bad weather, long range, bad angle etc. The 25-06 just didn't have the punch even with a 120 Nosler Partition. I switched to a .300 Win mag as my guide rifle after that. I doubt a .257 Weatherby would have done much better under those crappy circumstances.
Just plain old 280 Remington is good enough for anything in the USA xcept Kodiak bears, but I don't hunt for them noways, cause I don't Fancy eating a damn Kodiak.
I absolutely love the 280 Remington cartridge. You have a very special one being a Hart built rifle. They build those rifles right down the road from me. They build some of the best rifles in the world. I wish the 280 was more popular. I would trade two rifles for one.
@@mikedanaher3413 I'm an old man, I love to pass this gun on when i die, to the next generation that would appreciate it. it's a submoa gem, and game finisher
Boot .28 Nosler and up. Good info about the impact of a suppressor/brake, but in a cartridge war, I don’t like the idea of a cartridge winning contingent on having to use a suppressor or brake.
I agree. 28 Nosler and up can go. They are either intended for long range or game in the dangerous category. For best all around, 28 Nosler and up is just a little overkill
3. I love my 7mag and think the 3006 is one of the best all around cartridges, but the 280ai is much more efficient, and given the max range of 4-500 yards for elk hunting, it gets the job done with less recoil. I bought a savage axis 2 stainless last year in 280ai, I don't see myself hunting with my 270, 3006, 308, or 7mag any more. It really is the perfect deer/elk gun in the west.
@@TimCorcoran Maximum Point Blank Range on 6inch target for factory ammo(zero it at recommended distance and not have to adjust point of aim for point of impact): 270, 130gr 295 yards 280ai, 160gr 297 yards Basically shoots heavier bullets with superior terminal ballistics and similar external ballistics without excessive recoil, my daughter cant tell the difference between 270 and 280ai and shoots both well. She prefers 6.5 creedmoor for deer but doesn't complain about the 280 ackley. 270 win and 6.5 creedmoor have similar performance, but 6.5 recoils less.
Ok but what good is using a rifle you can’t find ammunition for? I have been hunting for over 30 years and I don’t remember ever seeing 280AI ammunition on the shelf ever at any gun store I’ve ever been to. So just for that reason, I would rather have a 30-06 or 7mm rem mag because ammunition is generally readily available for those two cartridges.
Personally I would cut out every heavy recoiling cartridge EXCEPT the 300 Winchester Magnum. Btw PLEASE do a video on buying a suppressors for hunting rifles
Personally I think the 280 Ackley is the best all around cartridge. If you have it custom chambered and a fast twist barrel to shoot those long heavy for caliber bullets, you can shoot 1000yds. You can shoot it in a match. You can hunt with it. Practice with it. You can do anything you want with it and it’s more than capable for any game in North America. Why shoot the 7 REM Mag, when you can have the 280 Ackley? A hand loader can push it to 7 Mag velocities with significantly less powder and recoil. It’s much more efficient.
I would cut 7 rem mag and above. Everything below that is very easy to manage on light or heavy rifle with no break or no suppressor. And they only get easier to manage when a break or a suppressor is added.
Option 2 7 mag is definitely manageable for most shooters especially in a hunting situation, the idea of a do all cartridge/gun is like finding a unicorn (impossible). You will neither be successful at matches or comfortable hiking in the woods with a rifle built in the middle. The two concepts are at the opposite ends of the spectrum from each other an the middle isn't good at either. The f-class guys use 284s win matches and Meat Eater used a 30-06, vastly different cartridges and vastly different bullet types not including the rifles they use. What I want to see is at the end of this series you guys build this rifle and try both, matches and hunting. Love the channel and the way you guys show and present your data. Your channel does seem genuine without the sponsor overlords telling you what to say, and that is more appreciated than anything in this community. Keep up the genuine content and your channel will continue to do well.
I have a hard time booting the .30-06/7mm rem mag category, but with cartridges like 280AI, 6.8 Western, 270 WSM you don't really NEED the higher two categories for deer/elk. Unless you spend a lot of time in grizzly country I guess. My vote is to eliminate the top recoil category.
Therr are 11 states where silencers are illegal to own. Your perfect gun is to be perfect EVERYWHERE. Stick with the 280ai group. The less worries in your head when you take the shot, the better.
Why would your perfect rifle have to be perfect everywhere? There are also states that don’t allow bottle necked cartridges. Should „the perfect rifle“ be perfect for those states as well?
@@borkwoof696 great point! Some states don't allow modern rifle hunting for even toed ungulates, so why not a straight wall? Because Backfire set the parameters as a long range hunting rifle and I'm not aware of any mass produced straight walled hunting rifle that fits his parameters, do you? California, with allows for modern gun hunting that fits his parameters does not allow silencers. You're welcome.
Cut out everything 7mag and above. From my experience anything can be done with a 308 or a 30-06 and honestly anything in the US as far as hunting goes can be done and done well with either one of these two calibers.
I am biased due to recently purchasing what has become my favorite caliber over 40 years of hunting. The .280 AI, it just gets the job done. My recommendation would be cut out everything 7mm mag and above as the they are just not necessary for North America anymore(unless hunting Brown/grizzly bears). Thank you for fantastic content!
I have to agree I have used quite a few cartridges in this competition but I bought my first 280ai last year in a savage 110 ultralight and it has since become my go to. With the high Bc of the 7mil and great energy you get out of the ackley I don’t see how it can loose this competition
Of the cartiages you have left it is an easy choice for me. If this ultimate cartiage is going to be able to "do it all" then it is definitely the 6.5 PRC. Coming from the competitive side of shooting (PRS/NRL Hunter), the 6.5 PRC is the only cartiage in all 3 groups that I would even consider taking to a match based on recoil and bullet selection. Not to mention it will still take down an Elk just fine. But to answer your question, both the upper groups need to go. Way to much recoil in both to even consider taking to a match and being somewhat competitive.
I’m going to go with option 3, cut out all but the mild recoiling cartridges. We’ve already sorted for lethality, so the law of diminishing returns applies here. If this is going to be the ultimate rifle, it should be fun to shoot!
Personally, I love heavy magnums. I don't mind that feeling of maximum power and ballistics. BUT, you have to make sure the rifle doesn't hurt. If it is painful you will eventually start to flinch. This may take stock modifications for just one example, but I do my own gunsmithing so that's an enjoyable process. I have taught smaller women to handle 7mm or 300 Win mag recoil. Probably the biggest part of recoil management is technique.
Spot on about it getting in your head, I’ve always had 270s and 30-06s and I lean hard towards the 270s because they’re below that level that I even have to think about! The 30-06 gets in my head especially if it’s in a poorly fit gun
I will stick with my 6.5x55 Swedish. It was really well built, great at longer distances, used for moose and other big game with great penetration from that high sectional density projectile, and still very easy on the shoulder. It shoots better than I can. Plus, I didn't have to spend $1500 just for the gun. I got a very nice vintage example for under $300. It dropped that whitetail in its tracks without destroying half the meat.
@@xavierconley350 The Tikka certainly does peak my interest as well. I took my last deer with my 1918 Swedish Mauser. I would like to have something a little more modern so I don't worry about to heavy of a charge.
@@djrand62 Same here with my M96 but then I figured if I'm ok with a load in one its probably fine in both. Hoping the 160 grain Hornady round nose works out.
I have been hunting with the 6.5x55 here in Saskatchewan for over a decade. Lovely cartridge! 120's and 140's both work wonders on deer, and 156 grain Sako's I have are more than adequate for elk and moose at the ranges most people shoot them at. Hell, even where I live north of Regina the moose are 200 yards more often than not, and it's grain land here.
@@greyhammar i have 129 Nosler Accubonds and those 160 Hornady RN. Seems like my M96 Swede shoots everything same regardless. I'm ok with either since taking close shots in woods at little East Texas deer so not a big ask. Maybe occasional hog or coyote.
Shootability includes carrying a light, handy rifle. I consider my .308 very easy to carry and shoot. It is lighter and kicks noticeably less than my 30-06. If you are mentally concerned about recoil at all, that gun is not in your shootable range.
The amount of research and work that's going into this project is insane, and I can't say thank you enough! I haven't contributed to a Patreon in years but I'm going to start again with y'all
3 I think we should cut out everything but the most mild category. There are cartridges that will get the job done. The less recoil you have the more accuracy. (The most important part of a clean kill)
But if you look at a whole this is based on the best caliber to do everything with not just hunting. I don't think the lighter calibers could handle 2,000yard shots. You need that extra powder to get it further.
@@sequoia4567 with the bottom category some of those cartridges have the best long range capabilities they have just as much powder with lighter bullets. For example 6.5 prc is relatable to 300wsm on powder but a bullet that weighs a lot less
Right I understand I would never try and shoot any animal over 600yrds max. And I agree looking back at the chart in the video some of those smaller rounds could certainly go the distance. but I do think the mid tear ones are still a good compromise. I have shot and own a couple of the upper tear ones and they definitely kick like a mule.
@@sequoia4567 agreed 100% it's all relative to what the person shooting feels, what you hunt, where you hunt, how you hunt, and if you target shoot. I honestly feel like a person couldn't go wrong with any of the calibers under different circumstances.
#1 . Boot everything that kicks. The new heavy for caliber, high BC bullets, BDC scope’s, range finders, more specialized powders have a eliminated the need for big powder burners to get more bullet speed to help with poor range estimation of yesteryear.
I have a 300 WSM Tikka Superlite that comes in at 7lbs 11 oz with scope, rings, etc...I had a vais muzzle brake added which tamed in considerably; it was pretty brutal without it. It is a dream to shoot now. So I think at least up to 300 WSM w/ a brake is very doable in my experience for most men. Keep the brake (bring lightweight hearing protection) and enjoy em all depending on your size.
Option 1: 300 WSM or .308 with a can. Personally, an 18" .308 with a light weight can is the ticket. Run monolithic on tough game and any loading for the rest of it.
#2, I'll vote to boot everything 28 nosler and up. Thank you for bringing suppressors into this! Many people who think they are flinching from recoil are actually flinching from the bang. Suppressors make you a better shooter, even if you aren't "recoil" sensitive, as you'll be more relaxed.
I agree with the guy or gal that asked for a hunting suppressor video. Considering it very seriously would be great to have a little guidance. Awesome job again!!
If I could only have 1 rifle to hunt with it would be 7mmRM. Good thing for me I am not stuck with only 1. I use .308WIN for deer sized game and 300WM for elk sized game. When I buy my boys their first rifle it will be 7mmRM. I like the 280ai but I am a fan of ammo availability/cost.
Agreed. Unless you (a) aren't accurate enough for the shots you are taking, or (b) choosing bad angles (e.g. trying to go through tons of bone and muscle on an elk), there is no need to go for more "power" than what the .280 AI provides with the right type of bullets. If you don't like having to discriminate in which shots you take, I guess just buy the .300 Win Mag and load 220 gr. bullets.
@@TimCorcoran the 280 ai shoots a 140 grain at around 3150 fps. The 270 shoots a 130 grain at around 3150 fps. The 280 ai can be loaded with up to 175 grain bullets whereas 150 grain is about the max for 270. I love the 270 for deer but I have to give 280ai the edge for larger game like elk or moose.
@@TimCorcoran they are both fantastic rounds especially for deer but I feel that .280 ai will slightly excel into those elk and moose hunts but both will get the job done
Hands down the 3006. After spending this week at the range with multiple .308 and 3006 combinations. I was shocked when a heavy round 3006 with a 1/8 twist felt smoother on recoil then from the rem 700 1/10 twist and 150gr. The non magnum .308 kicked just as sharp in a AR platform as the 200 grain 1/8 twist s&w bolt action. Ive found my new favorite platform for recoil. I also tried my first forward blast device on my AR. With it on i could handle the sound without plugs. I also found sound mitigation devices that dont need your tax stamp. I would have picked the .308 or 7.62 over any other rounds for all the reasons under the sun. But its limited in untrained hands so my pick would be the 3006. For availability, range, power, 100gr-220gr ballistics options, and platforms. Every manufactor has built one throughout the years. Bolt,lever,semi auto, full auto, and single shot. It is obviously large for smaller game such as rabbit or birds. But every other game ...the 3006 can be suited to work. Very versatile!!! And after shootimg it through my s&w bolt with sound mitigation. It has confirmed my favorite choice.
The non-suppressor cans and cones that claim to deflect sound might bring it below the threshold of pain, but they are still causing hearing damage. There have been quite a few decibel tests done, and the general consensus among most shooters it to just put the stamp in for a suppressor. If you still have hearing damage, what is the point?
My choice would be #1 keep them all. I just got back for South Africa using my 6.5-300 wby for all my plains game - wildebeest, zebra, kudu, Hartabest, Duiker, etc. It handled them all fine I used a muzzle brake.
Going through cartridges I always come back to the .308 Win. Shootability is is an important thing… but training is more important to get used to your rifle. And .308 provides cheaper training ammo, a lot of different hunting loads and availability of rifles. The rifle needs to fit you well, after that it comes down to the cartridge. And then it really doesn’t matter if it is a 30-06, 8mm Mauser, .308Win, 6,5x55 or 6,5 CM if you don’t have any really special hunting grounds. Go out and shoot… training is most important. If a round is about 5 bucks + you will not be practicing as much.
@@justinparks9081 My first rifle was a 270 and in 40 years it has done everything that I needed it to. Shot mule deer, coyotes, antelope, elk and moose. My most accurate rifle is a browning x-bolt in a 270 and I have always loved the caliber. I like the idea of a shorter case and I had looked at the 270 WSM but I never seen any ammo. I sure if I reloaded I would probably want one. I think I have the same feelings for the 6.8 Western. Shorter case, heavier bullets and a faster twist rate which does nicely with the .277 bullets with higher ballistic coefficient. The 6.8 looks like a great caliber for hunting and long range shooting. I heard that you can do a little work and shoot either 270 WSM or 6.8 out of a 270 WSM rifle. I would want to confirm that before trying it out.
I have hunted with a 300 WSM X-bolt for many years and love the performance, but I switched to 308 Win for less recoil so I can practice more and have more fun shooting. Ammo is available more than most other calibers and can buy in bulk. I don't shoot past 300 yards in WI anyway but I have with reloads been able to get a 175 grain Federal Edge TLR which expands down to 1300 fps with 48.7 grains of Power Pro 2000-MR to 2700 fps from a 20-inch barrel for a great hunting load for elk or bigger game and I use the 150-grain bonded bullets like swifts for deer. Great video!
2. I’ve had a 308/270/7mag/243/300mag. The 7mag is as much as I can comfortably handle off the bench and has a good blend of trajectory and projectile frontal area/ weight. I wouldn’t consider a 6.5cal for elk size game . Muzzle brake or suppressor isn’t an option for me for bush stalking, but I still wouldn’t go higher than a 7/300mag. Nothing wrong with the 300mag but to match the 7mm with a sleek 160 grain you need a 200 grain or just abouts and it kicks a lot more. I feel the 140 class on the 6.5 may be just a tad light for elk game
For elk, I have to agree. Elk are a very large animal. And when we the shooter don’t do our part, a 6.5 isn’t going to put the animal down. Elk cartridges start at 7mm. I’m a one gun to get them all, 30-06.
@@Marcusb338 I also seen people shot at a elk at 150 yards WITH a 7mm and they didn’t drop it 6.5 prc is capable of taking big game with good shot placement same thing with 7mm
I’d cut out the top group (or most of the top group). I like the thought process of using a muzzle break or suppressor and keeping everything, however, as you pointed out, muzzle breaks are very loud, and suppressors cost a pretty penny and take a while to ship. Granted, a suppressor is definitely going to be my next purchase.
Option 2. I’m rooting for the 270 , but I feel like the 7mm RM will win and it’ll make my brother so happy. In which case I won’t share these videos with him. Lol.
I'm sold on the 6.8 Western. I harvested a mature mule deer buck this year with it. I don't use a muzzle break on my rifle because you don't need it on the 6.8 Western.
.280 Remington is my favorite all around. It has more than enough power. Recoil is manageable in a light rifle, and medium to low in a full weight rifle. It can be handloaded to nearly match the 7mag. 280 Rem factory loads and most load data, under pressure the 280 Rem. This is the sole reason for the 280 AI. The 280 AI is just the 280 Rem loaded to its potential. The 280 Rem is under loaded due to some weak actioned semi-auto's Remington built back in 60's or 70's. Hornady used to load full power 280 Remington, and labeled the boxes "bolt action only". I still have some. 139gr spire points advertised at 3110fps. 7 mags of the same bullet are advertised at 3150 fps. I whish these gun guys on youtube would talk about it more. There is a reason the .280 Remington refuses to die.
After 27 years of experience hunting coyote, deer, bear, elk, and moose my choice is... 30-06! The recoil in manageable, very accurate, shoots a greater distance than most hunters are capable of shooting, and is an American caliber! It's tried an true all over the world, what more do you need? My setup: Browning X-Bolt Stalker Long Range 30-06 Nikon Buckmasters 4.5-14x40BDC 4" shade Bergera Omni muzzle brake Harris 6"-9" bipod Hornady Supeformance SST 150 grain 3,103 FPS / .82" groups at 100 yards Sighted in at 200 yards
#3 I love my 7mag and 06 but for what you are looking for it has to be in the low recoil category. Especially when you throw in a weekend match. With the weekend match being involved I see this competition coming down to the 280ai vs the 6.5prc
I vote Option #2 .I picked my 30-06 back in 2008 because of it's universality, Deer, elk, bear. When it comes down to it it's about bullet deign and shot placement. You can have a $100 bullet but if you hit the ground it does nothing for you. Practice makes perfect.
Cut 28 Nosler and above. (1) ammo price and availability (2) this is for deer and elk not grizzly (3) moderate to mild recoil cartridges will appeal to more hunters in general. (4) the majority of white tail and elk hunters prefer lighter and handier rifles so why bother with these heavier and larger calibers. Thanks I love this content !
I love my 7mm mag, and have hunted successfully every big game (except Griz) with it. I especially love that, because it shoots flat, I can just aim at the animal without overthinking (my version of buck fever) out to 300 yards. That said, yes I have to think about recoil. and mostly because of the noise I've begun using lighter rifles with equal success-here in Calif. suppressors are not an option. Since the rifles with lighter recoil and less noise still get the job done and can match the trajectory, I'd say keep only the last category. I'd buy one of them to get my Grandson his first rifle.
Option 3 - you need a rifle light enough you can carry it for miles, and you need a rifle you can shoot 50-100+ times during a single trip to the range without anticipation for recoil.
Came here hoping you had one of my favorite cartridges the 25-06 it’s almost the perfect round and now that they’ve come out with the new 25 caliber the Burger 135 gr. for long range it’s An incredible round thanks for all the videos you share with us you really go out far and beyond to find us great content in all your videos I want you to know that they are very appreciate it, greetings from the great state of Texas in Edinburg!
Great Video! (I wanted to say that first) Now, can we please take into account what cartridges are available (shortage aside) for the majority of us? I know MANY hunters and not one shoots anything with STM or Ackley Improved on the end of it. Let's be honest with ourselves. 95%+ shoot only cartridges available at big box sporting stores. I'm sure all the Nosler cartridges are great, but I dare to say I'll ever see one. Keep up the great work!
Short answer: (1) Long answer: Besides the muzzle brake and silencer options, they all have something else going for for them. If you handload, any of those can be throttled back based on your use. I hunt with a .270 Winchester, but where I hunt, you only get clear lines of fire of about 115 yards, max. I don't hunt with ammo in the range of 130 grain bullets doing 3100 fps. That's great at long-range, but unnecessary up close. Instead, I use a 140 or 150 grain bullet doing a very tame 2700 fps. But were I to go out West, I'd switch out my tame IMR4064 and break out some IMR4955 to make that .270 roar. A .300 Win Mag can be loaded to replicate a .30-30, but not vice-versa.
#2 for me keep the 7mm Rem Mag class and below. Honestly looking at the 6.8 Western and what it offers with excellent performance with fairly mild recoil that would be my choice for a lightweight hunting rifle.
As a wise person once said to me, a person that can shoot accurately and frequently with a smaller caliber rifle is much more deadly than a person with a larger caliber rifle who can't shoot accurately or frequently because they flinch so much from the pain. I will take the smallest caliber that can get the job done every time over the larger caliber. Plus, it is a lot more enjoyable than getting punished every time you pull that trigger. #3
i like the idea here, but i feel like as long as you're being reasonable, the caliber debate is often a waste of time when dealing with hunting ranges. You might as well use that time to go out and shoot (or scout the area you want to hunt) so that you can make an accurate dope chart for your rifle and the load you want to use. I personally hunt with a 300WM with a brake, 26" barrel with a cadex MX1 mini doesnt seem to be even close to ringing my ears with just plugs, and hunting with it is definitely loud, but 1 or 2 shots a year seems reasonable to me(I bowhunt till November)
Option 3. Not many benches or sandbags out in the deer woods. And when your friend who never shot before wants to try your rifle, they may be one shot from NEVER wanting to do that again. .....and remember most popular cartridges come in reduced-recoil loads so they are comfortable for most anyone.
#3 or just cut out everything above a 7mm Rem Mag. Keep 7mm rem, 30-06 and below. Everything else is too heavy for an everything rifle in a reasonable rifle weight without a break or suppressor. MOST people aren't in the suppressor arena and a lot of people hate breaks. For me pick a 30-06 or 280ai. Do you a historic buff, like a bit larger bullet and be able to find rifles and ammo everywhere or do you want to be boutique/unique, shoot flatter and a breath less recoil? or a 150gr out of the good ol 270 win..... jeesh...
Since you mentioned competition; 308, and 6.5PRC, are the only 2 on the list that fit that roll. They also have the least recoil on your list and will kill anything short of brown bears on this continent.
2, boot everything above 280ai. If I had to buy one rifle to do it all: Lone peak TI medium length action Proof research car on fiber barrel (maybe 22 or 24") 6.5PRC The most comfortable stock I can find Geissle or Triggertech 2 stage trigger Tangent Theta 3-15 scope
1) If a you are building an absolute dream gun like this video series is proposing, then why skimp on a silencer that you love. I would say do not get rid of any of them based on the addition of a silencer making them all shootable.
Because a suppressor adds length and weight that not everyone wants on a stalking rifle. Also with the bigger cartridges you’ll need a long barrel to make the ballistic advantage worthwhile plus a suppressor taking it well out to 30 inch barrel plus. Whereas with a 16-18 inch 308 with a suppressor youre talking a nice compact gun which won’t suffer too bad due to the smaller case and smaller barrel length
Yes, all those points are true. If this is supposed to be a do all elk and deer rifle a 26” barrel is not obscene, most rifles built for this are meant to set up on a bipod and shot. I do not picture attempting to track a whitetail bounding through the forest. Barrel length can add weight, but at least for me a carbon barrel would be in my dream rifle, minimizing the effect. Also a 28 Nosler with a 20” barrel would have far better ballistics than a 308 with any reasonable barrel length. In addition, I do not stand by muzzle brakes being too loud. A completely successful hunt should be a singular shot. You cannot claim that you can’t handle putting on ear plugs for 1 shot after working to get an opportunity at an animal.
You can stop now! You have convinced me to get my Browning A bolt composite stalker threaded for the suppressor I already own. I damaged my shoulder a few years ago (not shooting) and I believe this will become my dream rifle. Love the channel.
Having been a research chemist for 30 years I learned long ago that one experiment is worth more than a thousand theories. That being said, I have had many friends who swore by the 7mm mag, but they don't seem to hit much. Perhaps the recoil was just too much. Who knows. All I know is that I am not going to go with what others say is great or sexy because it is new or whatever. I prefer to rely on results. That being said, I shot my first mule deer at a bit over 350 yards with a .270 Winchester using a 130 grain Nosler partition bullet. The bullet hit in the lung catching a bit of the heart and, even though she was large for a mule deer, the exit wound was a bit smaller than the size of my fist. On a bet, I shot a half inch inch thick piece of plate steel using a basic factory load and the .270 went through it with little problem. Doesn't all of this show that there is more than sufficient power in this round? Why go with expensive rounds that recoil so hard when you do not need it? I would go with the lowest class on the list presented simply due to the performance of the .270 and the fact that it will take down just about everything in North America without costing an arm and a leg, quickly burning out the barrel, or being hard to find on store shelves (even though I reload). To me, this is the choice for the poor and pragmatic.
2. With suppressor. A day at the range with my light weight 3006 used to leave me a bit bruised. Now that I’ve got a suppressor it does not bother me at all. Shooting suppressed made me realize I had actually developed a flinch. My group sizes shrunk considerably. Also, I’ve stopped wearing hearing protection while hunting. A .22lr rings my ears more than my suppressed 3006. The downside of a suppressor is that is makes your rifle longer and can more easily snag on branches.
(2) Boot everything 28 Nosler and above. Just my thoughts, when you pull up on an elk at 250yd, and don’t have think about getting scoped from a massive recoiling rifle you’ll probably have a better shot. (my pick is a 7mm rem mag for the winner)
I say cut out 28 nosler and above. Pretty much anything in that middle category will kill just about any popular big game animal so why worry about getting a even bigger gun and then have to worry about the recoil while taking the shot. You want to be as comfortable as possible shooting your gun.
Lets cut to the chase. Its going to come down to 7mm rem vs 270 win. .270 in the right loadings is 88- 90% of a 7mm rem mag with 50-60% of the recoil. There is not 1 argument in the bottom tear except maybe 308 that is in the conversation for "bang for the buck/value" that beats .270 also accounting for ammo availability. The same the the 7mm rem in the middle tear for recoil/energy/ballistics and availability of ammo
First off shootability is depending on the rifle, stock shape, material, recoil pad, and action type. Action type, single shot, lever action, bolt action, double rifle and how the stock mates with it. All too subjective and still not taking to account the game.
I am not a huge fan of big recoil. Through out all the magnums. The cartridges that hit the sweet spot for me are, in no particular order, 6.5 PRC, 270 Win, 6.8 Western, 270 WSM, 280 REM, and 280 AI. You could make a pretty solid argument for any of these for the “one” do all cartridge. Having said that I still want one of each. 😜
Thank you for the video man.keep em coming also love that shirt Let's Go Brandon.and if you are still doing voting I still vote for best shoot ability 308 win #2 270 win.and as far as your list for 28 nosler and above calibers go I have a 300 wsm and use to own a 30-06 and my 300 wsm kicked less than my 30-06. Some bullet weight and the rifles only weigh 3 oz difference.and the 30-06 is the one that weigh more so to me it all depends on fit of the rifle to the person who is shooting it.if a rifle don't fit the person shooting it its going to kick more than a rifle in they same caliber but with a rifle that fits well.so there is a lot to consider
Excellent presentation. Your spreadsheet could add a couple columns that reflect the human element. That being age and one's physical abilities/injuries associated with it as one goes from a teen to an old man. I totally agree that the 29 Eargesplittenloudenboomer is the ultimate cartridge. But not for me at my age. I see you guys tossed out the 7mm-08 for various reasons. That one is perfect for me so since you guys aren't using it I'll grab that rifle and go hunting while everyone argues over this. Thanks for the fine rifle and a very insightful video.
I have hunted for almost 70 years and mostly used my old Rem 700 .30-06 (since 1978) for medium and large game. I had a Winchester Model 70 .338 Win Mag and it was a very good shooting gun. It did kick a bit, but I'm 6'2" and weigh over 210 pounds, so I didn't think it was all that bad, but I would kick out the .28 Nosler and above for a deer/elk gun..
Option 2. Beefier requirements make it less of an all around cartridge. That middle group has plenty to offer and the recoil is manageable for almost all experienced hunters. I myself am recoil sensitive and I use a 30-06. For some reason, it seems to hit you less when actually hunting than it does target shooting.
Option (3) The new 6.8 is fine tuned for heavier bullets that are the rage these days so I kinda want one but I'll never hunt anything but Mulies or White Tails so 270 Winchester 150 gr pills will keep on busting 'em just fine. Wouldn't mind a 6.5 PRC either but if I was gonna hunt Elk or Moose the 280 AI looks like a winner. I bet 280 AI wins this! It's just more than I need. Frankly I could get by with 243 Winchester but this is a fun watch.
I would cut out the top group. We aren't hunting moose or dangerous game. And if you can, use a suppressor, and bring those mid level rounds down to lower tier recoil and blast. Not all states allow hunting with a suppressor, so you want something that doesn't Have to have it, but use it when you can.
I 100% agree, suppress every gun you reasonably can. Hunting rifles, precision rifles, AR's, AK's, PCC's! Their benefits are real for most guns, in most applications, for a variety of reasons from sound reduction, to recoil reduction, to signature and flash reduction. It really is the be all end all of muzzle devices if it doesn't make the gun too long or too heavy for its intended purpose. That being said, I would still boot everything .28 Nosler and up, option 2. I hate recoil, and I'd like the option to go without the suppressor if need be to get the length down.
I’d have to say boot .28 and up if they’re only comfortable with a brake or suppressed. Personally, I think in a 9lb rifle, most would be able to .300 Win with no brake/suppressed. I can say (proudly) that I indeed invested in a suppressor and should get the stamp by March/April. I shot a friends rifle suppressed and couldn’t live without one - it’s definitely a game changer!
I love my 338 win I live in northern Canada and it's my go to round Grizzly moose deer it doesn't matter I never need a follow up shot my gun is 10.5 pounds. My longest shot is 630 yards on a bull elk.
I vote for 1, hard to rule out most of the .30 cals even without a suppressor but when you have a suppressor they definitely have to stay in and i would think the .300wsm has to be there. It's easy to carry, short action, light weight, and pretty much equal a .300 win mag in performance
Did I miss the cartridges that were voted to stay from episode one? When I was on, seemed most wanted to keep the 7-08. I didn’t see a video or a posting of which cartridges were kept, or officially scratched from the list. Love the content. I was stoked when I had this notification. Keep making the great content. Also I vote everything above a 7 mag is probably a little on the heavy side, so take remove those.
![7mm PRC Is Overrated - Here Is Why [Compared to other Cartridges]](/img/1.gif)
Let's be clear. It's 308, it's always been 308 and it will always be 308. It doesn't kick as hard as other rounds, easier to buy than 6.5 and I doubt there is a rifle out there that isn't chambered in it. And you can get nice lightweight rifles as well. To be honest, I'm up here in MT, my son shoots 6.5 because it's the "cool" caliber, on buddy shoots 30-06 because it's a "classic", another buddy is all but wedded to 270 and I'm at 308. I can use it in my bolt guns, my lever action, and my scary black rifles. And...It's pretty much ALWAYS in stock even when other people are visiting their 12th store trying to find ammo. Just picked up 6.5 Creemore for the son... $43 dollars a box! Good Lord! 30-06, out of stock. 270? lol, nowhere to be found. But there is a whole shelf of 308.
I totally agree! Same goes for the .243 Winchester!!!
Your my hero bear lol
Yeah a whole shelf of m80 ball. Haven't seen any hunting rounds for it in a long time.
Look at the 6.5 PRC. I think this will all but replace the .270. Ammo for the PRC is scarce now, but really everything is. I currently have a .308 so I'm a fan boy, but I'm really looking in to the 6.5 prc for the fact it has a high BC for Elk and Moose and don't forget of you like to shoot 1000yds plus.
Son-in-law bought an AR-10 in 6.5 Creedmore and now regrets it...$43/box.
So I built an AR-10 in .308 and see shelves full at $24/box....
Still love my .243 though.
I am over 70 years old and have been shooting since I was 8, having been taught by my grandfather who was a competition shooter. The 30-06 is what I cut my teeth on with my first gun a WWII 30-06 Springfield Rifle purchased from an add in a magazine for $15.00 dollars. By the time I was 12, I could bench shoot that rifle at 100 yards, with open sights, to 1 1/2 inch groups. This training came in handy in the military and later contractor jobs I would have. Yes, I have used many different calibers over the years but always came back to the old 06 mostly because of its versatility (white tail deer? 150 grain bullet, elk? 180 grain bullet, moose and brown bear? 220 grain bullet). My favorite caliber was the .270 but it is so damned limited in bullet weights (I think that is about to change however and I hope it does). So, how do I feel about bullet drop and recoil? LEARN TO FRIGGIN SHOOT!!!
I don't say this lightly.
This is by far my favorite RUclips channel at this moment.
This is the first time in my life I feel compelled to actually send money though patreon (don't know if you have one).
1. They give info that can be easily digested.
2. They give info I actuall like, and always have fresh subjects.
3. They give a perspective on the lifestyle of a passionate shooter people tend to gloss over.
4. No bias, they say somethings good? I buy it immediately!
I don't know the people behind backfire at all, but I can't help but root for em'!
From my somewhat honest heart
Thank you.
God bless.
It's literally him and his kids with some friends before he moved to Utah, after he moved it's just him and his kids I think.
So, this clown starts up with the current lie fad go hunt brown bears in Alaska with 9mm & 10 mm Glock handguns you would do it!
I am 63 years old then have been a professional hunting guide full time since 1976.
I work the Pacific NW to Alaska and in the Carpathian Mountains of Romania, so I find this clowns advice not a good Idea to take seriously.
Like this clown telling people not well informed about guns - ammo and hunting some cartridge is the best in the world for deer, well that cartridge might be great for east coast deer hunting shooting deer from a tree stand but come to the west coast then the hunter would be under gunned to shoot over the massive canyons of the Pacific NW.
He is telling people to use deer guns to hunt Elk which are known to be tough animals to put down.
There is way too much of this garbage video's giving bad info.
Hes a lawyer with a mansion... doesn't need your money
Cartridge Wars Season 1, Episode 1: ruclips.net/video/T9T9KtGj49U/видео.html
Cartridge Wars Season 1, Episode 2: ruclips.net/video/n1-nBUYr6fs/видео.html
Cartridge Wars Season 1, Episode 3: ruclips.net/video/q0rcSuLBgDM/видео.html
Cartridge Wars Season 1, Episode 4: ruclips.net/video/tRl-JgdrDfs/видео.html
Cartridge Wars Season 1, Episode 5: ruclips.net/video/1aKrSfJ2_Jg/видео.html
+1 on your statement.
30.06 and less. Boot everything above 30.06
Option 1 with a suppressor
Lol choice 1, keep all of these.
Then face the wrath of an angry wife expecting an explanation.
Lol
Or the other way around, some feist ppl out there.
#3
I don't enjoy shooting the 30-06. There's so much nicer options it's just not necessary.
I’m 69 years old and taken 22 elk in my life. One elk I killed with a 45-70, 25 weatherby mag, one with a 7mm mag, three with a 308, and 16 with a 280 Remington. I hated the 7mm mag, it caused me to flinch big time (it was magnaported). The weatherby was flat shooting and though it drop the elk on contact I worried it was not enough gun. The 308 was a a Remington 660, light to carry, very effective but I sold it to a friend. I’ve owned a plethora of 280’s. But I’ve hunted the last twenty years with a hart built 700 Remington. It shoots sub -moa with a shepherd 3-9 scope and my last elk was almost 400 yards and drop on the shot. I’m not a great shot, but grandpa said, “beware of the man that shoots one gun.” And my baby is my Hart built 700 Remington 280. It taken over 100 deer, 16 elk, a dozen antelope, and nice axis buck. I know when the bullet leaves the barrel, that critter is dead.
I killed 5 elk with a 25-06. 4 were mine and no problem, but the last one was while guiding. The cow was wounded (7mm Rem mag) with bad weather, long range, bad angle etc. The 25-06 just didn't have the punch even with a 120 Nosler Partition. I switched to a .300 Win mag as my guide rifle after that. I doubt a .257 Weatherby would have done much better under those crappy circumstances.
Just plain old 280 Remington is good enough for anything in the USA xcept Kodiak bears, but I don't hunt for them noways, cause I don't Fancy eating a damn Kodiak.
I absolutely love the 280 Remington cartridge. You have a very special one being a Hart built rifle. They build those rifles right down the road from me. They build some of the best rifles in the world. I wish the 280 was more popular. I would trade two rifles for one.
@@mikedanaher3413 I'm an old man, I love to pass this gun on when i die, to the next generation that would appreciate it. it's a submoa gem, and game finisher
Boot .28 Nosler and up. Good info about the impact of a suppressor/brake, but in a cartridge war, I don’t like the idea of a cartridge winning contingent on having to use a suppressor or brake.
I agree. 28 Nosler and up can go. They are either intended for long range or game in the dangerous category. For best all around, 28 Nosler and up is just a little overkill
Yeah in all honesty hardly anyone hunts with a suppressor. Nawww no point in that plug in this e video
3. I love my 7mag and think the 3006 is one of the best all around cartridges, but the 280ai is much more efficient, and given the max range of 4-500 yards for elk hunting, it gets the job done with less recoil. I bought a savage axis 2 stainless last year in 280ai, I don't see myself hunting with my 270, 3006, 308, or 7mag any more. It really is the perfect deer/elk gun in the west.
How does the 280ai compare to the 270?
@@TimCorcoran Heavier and better bc/ sd projectiles than .270
@@TimCorcoran Maximum Point Blank Range on 6inch target for factory ammo(zero it at recommended distance and not have to adjust point of aim for point of impact):
270, 130gr 295 yards
280ai, 160gr 297 yards
Basically shoots heavier bullets with superior terminal ballistics and similar external ballistics without excessive recoil, my daughter cant tell the difference between 270 and 280ai and shoots both well. She prefers 6.5 creedmoor for deer but doesn't complain about the 280 ackley. 270 win and 6.5 creedmoor have similar performance, but 6.5 recoils less.
@@TimCorcoran much more efficent that .270...but if you want want to compare 270WSM...they are pretty close
Ok but what good is using a rifle you can’t find ammunition for? I have been hunting for over 30 years and I don’t remember ever seeing 280AI ammunition on the shelf ever at any gun store I’ve ever been to. So just for that reason, I would rather have a 30-06 or 7mm rem mag because ammunition is generally readily available for those two cartridges.
Personally I would cut out every heavy recoiling cartridge EXCEPT the 300 Winchester Magnum.
Btw PLEASE do a video on buying a suppressors for hunting rifles
7mm Rem Mag has a little less recoil but still has the magnum range and ballistics.
I agree, but keep the 300 WSM also.
Agreed
@@20cameron1 I think he'll pick that one as the best cartridge
Buy a 30 cal suppressor and shoot anything up to 300 win mag. They also make a little bigger ones that can handle almost all rifles.
Personally I think the 280 Ackley is the best all around cartridge. If you have it custom chambered and a fast twist barrel to shoot those long heavy for caliber bullets, you can shoot 1000yds. You can shoot it in a match. You can hunt with it. Practice with it. You can do anything you want with it and it’s more than capable for any game in North America.
Why shoot the 7 REM Mag, when you can have the 280 Ackley? A hand loader can push it to 7 Mag velocities with significantly less powder and recoil. It’s much more efficient.
I'm amazed at your diligence and attention to detail. Thanks for taking the time and effort to get this information to us.
I would cut 7 rem mag and above. Everything below that is very easy to manage on light or heavy rifle with no break or no suppressor. And they only get easier to manage when a break or a suppressor is added.
Heck, SBR 50 cal Barrett....everyone else are wimps....
Option 2 7 mag is definitely manageable for most shooters especially in a hunting situation, the idea of a do all cartridge/gun is like finding a unicorn (impossible). You will neither be successful at matches or comfortable hiking in the woods with a rifle built in the middle. The two concepts are at the opposite ends of the spectrum from each other an the middle isn't good at either. The f-class guys use 284s win matches and Meat Eater used a 30-06, vastly different cartridges and vastly different bullet types not including the rifles they use. What I want to see is at the end of this series you guys build this rifle and try both, matches and hunting.
Love the channel and the way you guys show and present your data. Your channel does seem genuine without the sponsor overlords telling you what to say, and that is more appreciated than anything in this community. Keep up the genuine content and your channel will continue to do well.
I have a hard time booting the
.30-06/7mm rem mag category, but with cartridges like 280AI, 6.8 Western, 270 WSM you don't really NEED the higher two categories for deer/elk. Unless you spend a lot of time in grizzly country I guess. My vote is to eliminate the top recoil category.
Therr are 11 states where silencers are illegal to own.
Your perfect gun is to be perfect EVERYWHERE.
Stick with the 280ai group. The less worries in your head when you take the shot, the better.
Perfect everywhere, WHAT? How about you just take the silencer off. Also, move to a free state or help change the one you're in.
Why would your perfect rifle have to be perfect everywhere? There are also states that don’t allow bottle necked cartridges. Should „the perfect rifle“ be perfect for those states as well?
@@borkwoof696 great point!
Some states don't allow modern rifle hunting for even toed ungulates, so why not a straight wall?
Because Backfire set the parameters as a long range hunting rifle and I'm not aware of any mass produced straight walled hunting rifle that fits his parameters, do you?
California, with allows for modern gun hunting that fits his parameters does not allow silencers.
You're welcome.
@@mikecross2435 Take the silencer off?
That would make the recoil and sound unfavorable for a 1 shot kill and defeat the benefit of the silencer.
@@altruisticscoundrel good points. You‘re making me realized that maybe there’s a niche market for long range straight walled hinting cartridges🤔
Cut out everything 7mag and above. From my experience anything can be done with a 308 or a 30-06 and honestly anything in the US as far as hunting goes can be done and done well with either one of these two calibers.
I am biased due to recently purchasing what has become my favorite caliber over 40 years of hunting. The .280 AI, it just gets the job done. My recommendation would be cut out everything 7mm mag and above as the they are just not necessary for North America anymore(unless hunting Brown/grizzly bears). Thank you for fantastic content!
What rifle did you get? I am looking at getting a 280ai myself
I have to agree I have used quite a few cartridges in this competition but I bought my first 280ai last year in a savage 110 ultralight and it has since become my go to. With the high Bc of the 7mil and great energy you get out of the ackley I don’t see how it can loose this competition
Of the cartiages you have left it is an easy choice for me. If this ultimate cartiage is going to be able to "do it all" then it is definitely the 6.5 PRC. Coming from the competitive side of shooting (PRS/NRL Hunter), the 6.5 PRC is the only cartiage in all 3 groups that I would even consider taking to a match based on recoil and bullet selection. Not to mention it will still take down an Elk just fine. But to answer your question, both the upper groups need to go. Way to much recoil in both to even consider taking to a match and being somewhat competitive.
I’m going to go with option 3, cut out all but the mild recoiling cartridges. We’ve already sorted for lethality, so the law of diminishing returns applies here. If this is going to be the ultimate rifle, it should be fun to shoot!
Personally, I love heavy magnums. I don't mind that feeling of maximum power and ballistics.
BUT, you have to make sure the rifle doesn't hurt. If it is painful you will eventually start to flinch. This may take stock modifications for just one example, but I do my own gunsmithing so that's an enjoyable process.
I have taught smaller women to handle 7mm or 300 Win mag recoil. Probably the biggest part of recoil management is technique.
Spot on about it getting in your head, I’ve always had 270s and 30-06s and I lean hard towards the 270s because they’re below that level that I even have to think about! The 30-06 gets in my head especially if it’s in a poorly fit gun
I will stick with my 6.5x55 Swedish. It was really well built, great at longer distances, used for moose and other big game with great penetration from that high sectional density projectile, and still very easy on the shoulder. It shoots better than I can. Plus, I didn't have to spend $1500 just for the gun. I got a very nice vintage example for under $300. It dropped that whitetail in its tracks without destroying half the meat.
Totally agree. Just bought a 6.5 Creed but my love is 6.5 Swede. Hoping to add a Tikka in the Swede.
@@xavierconley350 The Tikka certainly does peak my interest as well. I took my last deer with my 1918 Swedish Mauser. I would like to have something a little more modern so I don't worry about to heavy of a charge.
@@djrand62 Same here with my M96 but then I figured if I'm ok with a load in one its probably fine in both. Hoping the 160 grain Hornady round nose works out.
I have been hunting with the 6.5x55 here in Saskatchewan for over a decade. Lovely cartridge! 120's and 140's both work wonders on deer, and 156 grain Sako's I have are more than adequate for elk and moose at the ranges most people shoot them at. Hell, even where I live north of Regina the moose are 200 yards more often than not, and it's grain land here.
@@greyhammar i have 129 Nosler Accubonds and those 160 Hornady RN. Seems like my M96 Swede shoots everything same regardless. I'm ok with either since taking close shots in woods at little East Texas deer so not a big ask. Maybe occasional hog or coyote.
Shootability includes carrying a light, handy rifle. I consider my .308 very easy to carry and shoot. It is lighter and kicks noticeably less than my 30-06. If you are mentally concerned about recoil at all, that gun is not in your shootable range.
I love the 308 for eastern whitetails, its just perfect.
The amount of research and work that's going into this project is insane, and I can't say thank you enough! I haven't contributed to a Patreon in years but I'm going to start again with y'all
3
I think we should cut out everything but the most mild category. There are cartridges that will get the job done. The less recoil you have the more accuracy. (The most important part of a clean kill)
But if you look at a whole this is based on the best caliber to do everything with not just hunting. I don't think the lighter calibers could handle 2,000yard shots. You need that extra powder to get it further.
@@sequoia4567 with the bottom category some of those cartridges have the best long range capabilities they have just as much powder with lighter bullets. For example 6.5 prc is relatable to 300wsm on powder but a bullet that weighs a lot less
When I say that I'm not saying go shoot a elk at 2000yds with any gun tho let me clarify I'm talking specifically target shooting
Right I understand I would never try and shoot any animal over 600yrds max. And I agree looking back at the chart in the video some of those smaller rounds could certainly go the distance. but I do think the mid tear ones are still a good compromise. I have shot and own a couple of the upper tear ones and they definitely kick like a mule.
@@sequoia4567 agreed 100% it's all relative to what the person shooting feels, what you hunt, where you hunt, how you hunt, and if you target shoot. I honestly feel like a person couldn't go wrong with any of the calibers under different circumstances.
Since shoulder surgery “shootability” is ALL I look for. Thanks for this video!
#1 . Boot everything that kicks. The new heavy for caliber, high BC bullets, BDC scope’s, range finders, more specialized powders have a eliminated the need for big powder burners to get more bullet speed to help with poor range estimation of yesteryear.
@@davidandre886 😂
@@davidandre886 I would probably care what you think if you did much of it
I have a 300 WSM Tikka Superlite that comes in at 7lbs 11 oz with scope, rings, etc...I had a vais muzzle brake added which tamed in considerably; it was pretty brutal without it. It is a dream to shoot now. So I think at least up to 300 WSM w/ a brake is very doable in my experience for most men. Keep the brake (bring lightweight hearing protection) and enjoy em all depending on your size.
Option 1: 300 WSM or .308 with a can. Personally, an 18" .308 with a light weight can is the ticket. Run monolithic on tough game and any loading for the rest of it.
Great video bud. Noticed your shirt right away. Friggin awesome. 😂😂😂👍👍👍
#2, I'll vote to boot everything 28 nosler and up.
Thank you for bringing suppressors into this! Many people who think they are flinching from recoil are actually flinching from the bang. Suppressors make you a better shooter, even if you aren't "recoil" sensitive, as you'll be more relaxed.
If only they were legal in my state
I agree with the guy or gal that asked for a hunting suppressor video. Considering it very seriously would be great to have a little guidance. Awesome job again!!
If I could only have 1 rifle to hunt with it would be 7mmRM. Good thing for me I am not stuck with only 1. I use .308WIN for deer sized game and 300WM for elk sized game. When I buy my boys their first rifle it will be 7mmRM. I like the 280ai but I am a fan of ammo availability/cost.
So 7 doesn't match 300 ?
.280 ackley improved is my dream cartridge I think it’s a great option
How does it compare to the 270?
Agreed. Unless you (a) aren't accurate enough for the shots you are taking, or (b) choosing bad angles (e.g. trying to go through tons of bone and muscle on an elk), there is no need to go for more "power" than what the .280 AI provides with the right type of bullets. If you don't like having to discriminate in which shots you take, I guess just buy the .300 Win Mag and load 220 gr. bullets.
@@TimCorcoran the 280 ai shoots a 140 grain at around 3150 fps. The 270 shoots a 130 grain at around 3150 fps. The 280 ai can be loaded with up to 175 grain bullets whereas 150 grain is about the max for 270. I love the 270 for deer but I have to give 280ai the edge for larger game like elk or moose.
@Mathew Newbury - How do you feel the 280ai is for deer? Still good?
@@TimCorcoran they are both fantastic rounds especially for deer but I feel that .280 ai will slightly excel into those elk and moose hunts but both will get the job done
Hands down the 3006. After spending this week at the range with multiple .308 and 3006 combinations. I was shocked when a heavy round 3006 with a 1/8 twist felt smoother on recoil then from the rem 700 1/10 twist and 150gr. The non magnum .308 kicked just as sharp in a AR platform as the 200 grain 1/8 twist s&w bolt action. Ive found my new favorite platform for recoil.
I also tried my first forward blast device on my AR. With it on i could handle the sound without plugs. I also found sound mitigation devices that dont need your tax stamp. I would have picked the .308 or 7.62 over any other rounds for all the reasons under the sun. But its limited in untrained hands so my pick would be the 3006. For availability, range, power, 100gr-220gr ballistics options, and platforms. Every manufactor has built one throughout the years. Bolt,lever,semi auto, full auto, and single shot. It is obviously large for smaller game such as rabbit or birds. But every other game ...the 3006 can be suited to work. Very versatile!!! And after shootimg it through my s&w bolt with sound mitigation. It has confirmed my favorite choice.
If recoil wasn't a factor, and you could only have one gun for the rest of your life... would you pick the 30-06 or the 308?
The non-suppressor cans and cones that claim to deflect sound might bring it below the threshold of pain, but they are still causing hearing damage. There have been quite a few decibel tests done, and the general consensus among most shooters it to just put the stamp in for a suppressor. If you still have hearing damage, what is the point?
All i need is the .308.....30-06........300 win mag .........im good . Keep up the good videos brother Jim ! cheers from North Idaho
My choice would be #1 keep them all. I just got back for South Africa using my 6.5-300 wby for all my plains game - wildebeest, zebra, kudu, Hartabest, Duiker, etc. It handled them all fine I used a muzzle brake.
Going through cartridges I always come back to the .308 Win.
Shootability is is an important thing… but training is more important to get used to your rifle.
And .308 provides cheaper training ammo, a lot of different hunting loads and availability of rifles. The rifle needs to fit you well, after that it comes down to the cartridge. And then it really doesn’t matter if it is a 30-06, 8mm Mauser, .308Win, 6,5x55 or 6,5 CM if you don’t have any really special hunting grounds.
Go out and shoot… training is most important. If a round is about 5 bucks + you will not be practicing as much.
Keep the 7mm and everything below.
Looking to see the calibers in the finals. 7mm, 280 ackley improved, 270 win and the 6.8 western.
@@justinparks9081 My first rifle was a 270 and in 40 years it has done everything that I needed it to. Shot mule deer, coyotes, antelope, elk and moose. My most accurate rifle is a browning x-bolt in a 270 and I have always loved the caliber.
I like the idea of a shorter case and I had looked at the 270 WSM but I never seen any ammo. I sure if I reloaded I would probably want one. I think I have the same feelings for the 6.8 Western. Shorter case, heavier bullets and a faster twist rate which does nicely with the .277 bullets with higher ballistic coefficient. The 6.8 looks like a great caliber for hunting and long range shooting. I heard that you can do a little work and shoot either 270 WSM or 6.8 out of a 270 WSM rifle. I would want to confirm that before trying it out.
I have hunted with a 300 WSM X-bolt for many years and love the performance, but I switched to 308 Win for less recoil so I can practice more and have more fun shooting. Ammo is available more than most other calibers and can buy in bulk. I don't shoot past 300 yards in WI anyway but I have with reloads been able to get a 175 grain Federal Edge TLR which expands down to 1300 fps with 48.7 grains of Power Pro 2000-MR to 2700 fps from a 20-inch barrel for a great hunting load for elk or bigger game and I use the 150-grain bonded bullets like swifts for deer. Great video!
2. I’ve had a 308/270/7mag/243/300mag. The 7mag is as much as I can comfortably handle off the bench and has a good blend of trajectory and projectile frontal area/ weight. I wouldn’t consider a 6.5cal for elk size game . Muzzle brake or suppressor isn’t an option for me for bush stalking, but I still wouldn’t go higher than a 7/300mag.
Nothing wrong with the 300mag but to match the 7mm with a sleek 160 grain you need a 200 grain or just abouts and it kicks a lot more.
I feel the 140 class on the 6.5 may be just a tad light for elk game
For elk, I have to agree. Elk are a very large animal. And when we the shooter don’t do our part, a 6.5 isn’t going to put the animal down. Elk cartridges start at 7mm. I’m a one gun to get them all, 30-06.
A 6.5 prc would take a moose down what are you talking about ?
@@Sg16- of course it will but so will a .22LR and .223 easily if you shoot it in the brain or heart, I’m just saying 7mm is where I draw the line
@@Marcusb338 a 6.5 prc can ethically kill a moose at 300 yards with good shot placement !!
@@Marcusb338 I also seen people shot at a elk at 150 yards WITH a 7mm and they didn’t drop it 6.5 prc is capable of taking big game with good shot placement same thing with 7mm
I’d cut out the top group (or most of the top group). I like the thought process of using a muzzle break or suppressor and keeping everything, however, as you pointed out, muzzle breaks are very loud, and suppressors cost a pretty penny and take a while to ship. Granted, a suppressor is definitely going to be my next purchase.
Option 2. I’m rooting for the 270 , but I feel like the 7mm RM will win and it’ll make my brother so happy. In which case I won’t share these videos with him. Lol.
I'm sold on the 6.8 Western. I harvested a mature mule deer buck this year with it. I don't use a muzzle break on my rifle because you don't need it on the 6.8 Western.
.280 Remington is my favorite all around. It has more than enough power. Recoil is manageable in a light rifle, and medium to low in a full weight rifle. It can be handloaded to nearly match the 7mag. 280 Rem factory loads and most load data, under pressure the 280 Rem. This is the sole reason for the 280 AI. The 280 AI is just the 280 Rem loaded to its potential. The 280 Rem is under loaded due to some weak actioned semi-auto's Remington built back in 60's or 70's. Hornady used to load full power 280 Remington, and labeled the boxes "bolt action only". I still have some. 139gr spire points advertised at 3110fps. 7 mags of the same bullet are advertised at 3150 fps. I whish these gun guys on youtube would talk about it more. There is a reason the .280 Remington refuses to die.
After 27 years of experience hunting coyote, deer, bear, elk, and moose my choice is... 30-06! The recoil in manageable, very accurate, shoots a greater distance than most hunters are capable of shooting, and is an American caliber! It's tried an true all over the world, what more do you need?
My setup:
Browning X-Bolt Stalker Long Range 30-06
Nikon Buckmasters 4.5-14x40BDC 4" shade
Bergera Omni muzzle brake
Harris 6"-9" bipod
Hornady Supeformance SST 150 grain
3,103 FPS / .82" groups at 100 yards
Sighted in at 200 yards
#3 I love my 7mag and 06 but for what you are looking for it has to be in the low recoil category. Especially when you throw in a weekend match. With the weekend match being involved I see this competition coming down to the 280ai vs the 6.5prc
I would say these 2 plus the 300WM or WSM
Thanks for taking the time and effort to get all this information to us!
I vote Option #2 .I picked my 30-06 back in 2008 because of it's universality, Deer, elk, bear. When it comes down to it it's about bullet deign and shot placement. You can have a $100 bullet but if you hit the ground it does nothing for you. Practice makes perfect.
Cut 28 Nosler and above.
(1) ammo price and availability
(2) this is for deer and elk not grizzly
(3) moderate to mild recoil cartridges will appeal to more hunters in general.
(4) the majority of white tail and elk hunters prefer lighter and handier rifles so why bother with these heavier and larger calibers.
Thanks I love this content !
I love my 7mm mag, and have hunted successfully every big game (except Griz) with it. I especially love that, because it shoots flat, I can just aim at the animal without overthinking (my version of buck fever) out to 300 yards. That said, yes I have to think about recoil. and mostly because of the noise I've begun using lighter rifles with equal success-here in Calif. suppressors are not an option.
Since the rifles with lighter recoil and less noise still get the job done and can match the trajectory, I'd say keep only the last category. I'd buy one of them to get my Grandson his first rifle.
Really looking forward to the suppressor video. This is quickly becoming my new favorite channel keep up the good work.
Option 3 - you need a rifle light enough you can carry it for miles, and you need a rifle you can shoot 50-100+ times during a single trip to the range without anticipation for recoil.
Came here hoping you had one of my favorite cartridges the 25-06 it’s almost the perfect round and now that they’ve come out with the new 25 caliber the Burger 135 gr. for long range it’s An incredible round thanks for all the videos you share with us you really go out far and beyond to find us great content in all your videos I want you to know that they are very appreciate it, greetings from the great state of Texas in Edinburg!
My vote: Boot everything 30.06 7 Mag and up that makes you consider recoil. The lower the recoil the better.
Great shirt. Great video as well of course. Excited to see the end of this series as this is the caliber I’ll be buying my first hunting rifle in.
Great Video! (I wanted to say that first) Now, can we please take into account what cartridges are available (shortage aside) for the majority of us? I know MANY hunters and not one shoots anything with STM or Ackley Improved on the end of it. Let's be honest with ourselves. 95%+ shoot only cartridges available at big box sporting stores. I'm sure all the Nosler cartridges are great, but I dare to say I'll ever see one. Keep up the great work!
Short answer: (1)
Long answer: Besides the muzzle brake and silencer options, they all have something else going for for them. If you handload, any of those can be throttled back based on your use. I hunt with a .270 Winchester, but where I hunt, you only get clear lines of fire of about 115 yards, max. I don't hunt with ammo in the range of 130 grain bullets doing 3100 fps. That's great at long-range, but unnecessary up close. Instead, I use a 140 or 150 grain bullet doing a very tame 2700 fps. But were I to go out West, I'd switch out my tame IMR4064 and break out some IMR4955 to make that .270 roar. A .300 Win Mag can be loaded to replicate a .30-30, but not vice-versa.
#2 for me keep the 7mm Rem Mag class and below. Honestly looking at the 6.8 Western and what it offers with excellent performance with fairly mild recoil that would be my choice for a lightweight hunting rifle.
I picked up the 6.8 western and absolutely love it. You won't be disappointed.
As a wise person once said to me, a person that can shoot accurately and frequently with a smaller caliber rifle is much more deadly than a person with a larger caliber rifle who can't shoot accurately or frequently because they flinch so much from the pain. I will take the smallest caliber that can get the job done every time over the larger caliber. Plus, it is a lot more enjoyable than getting punished every time you pull that trigger. #3
i like the idea here, but i feel like as long as you're being reasonable, the caliber debate is often a waste of time when dealing with hunting ranges. You might as well use that time to go out and shoot (or scout the area you want to hunt) so that you can make an accurate dope chart for your rifle and the load you want to use. I personally hunt with a 300WM with a brake, 26" barrel with a cadex MX1 mini doesnt seem to be even close to ringing my ears with just plugs, and hunting with it is definitely loud, but 1 or 2 shots a year seems reasonable to me(I bowhunt till November)
Option 3. Not many benches or sandbags out in the deer woods. And when your friend who never shot before wants to try your rifle, they may be one shot from NEVER wanting to do that again. .....and remember most popular cartridges come in reduced-recoil loads so they are comfortable for most anyone.
#3 or just cut out everything above a 7mm Rem Mag. Keep 7mm rem, 30-06 and below. Everything else is too heavy for an everything rifle in a reasonable rifle weight without a break or suppressor. MOST people aren't in the suppressor arena and a lot of people hate breaks. For me pick a 30-06 or 280ai. Do you a historic buff, like a bit larger bullet and be able to find rifles and ammo everywhere or do you want to be boutique/unique, shoot flatter and a breath less recoil? or a 150gr out of the good ol 270 win..... jeesh...
Since you mentioned competition; 308, and 6.5PRC, are the only 2 on the list that fit that roll. They also have the least recoil on your list and will kill anything short of brown bears on this continent.
I’m guessing Tube took down your trial breakdown. Was sad when it disappeared from my watch later.
2, boot everything above 280ai.
If I had to buy one rifle to do it all:
Lone peak TI medium length action
Proof research car on fiber barrel (maybe 22 or 24")
6.5PRC
The most comfortable stock I can find
Geissle or Triggertech 2 stage trigger
Tangent Theta 3-15 scope
7mm-08 the end
Dang, I wish my suppressor was approved in
Have one at over 300 days and another one at over 250 days...sure wish mine came that fast.
1) If a you are building an absolute dream gun like this video series is proposing, then why skimp on a silencer that you love. I would say do not get rid of any of them based on the addition of a silencer making them all shootable.
Because a suppressor adds length and weight that not everyone wants on a stalking rifle. Also with the bigger cartridges you’ll need a long barrel to make the ballistic advantage worthwhile plus a suppressor taking it well out to 30 inch barrel plus. Whereas with a 16-18 inch 308 with a suppressor youre talking a nice compact gun which won’t suffer too bad due to the smaller case and smaller barrel length
Yes, all those points are true. If this is supposed to be a do all elk and deer rifle a 26” barrel is not obscene, most rifles built for this are meant to set up on a bipod and shot. I do not picture attempting to track a whitetail bounding through the forest. Barrel length can add weight, but at least for me a carbon barrel would be in my dream rifle, minimizing the effect. Also a 28 Nosler with a 20” barrel would have far better ballistics than a 308 with any reasonable barrel length. In addition, I do not stand by muzzle brakes being too loud. A completely successful hunt should be a singular shot. You cannot claim that you can’t handle putting on ear plugs for 1 shot after working to get an opportunity at an animal.
You can stop now! You have convinced me to get my Browning A bolt composite stalker threaded for the suppressor I already own. I damaged my shoulder a few years ago (not shooting) and I believe this will become my dream rifle. Love the channel.
First! Love the shirt
Yes indeed
28 cal war you discussed today, I’m a 7wsm fan. Thanks for the great work/fun info
Having been a research chemist for 30 years I learned long ago that one experiment is worth more than a thousand theories. That being said, I have had many friends who swore by the 7mm mag, but they don't seem to hit much. Perhaps the recoil was just too much. Who knows. All I know is that I am not going to go with what others say is great or sexy because it is new or whatever. I prefer to rely on results. That being said, I shot my first mule deer at a bit over 350 yards with a .270 Winchester using a 130 grain Nosler partition bullet. The bullet hit in the lung catching a bit of the heart and, even though she was large for a mule deer, the exit wound was a bit smaller than the size of my fist. On a bet, I shot a half inch inch thick piece of plate steel using a basic factory load and the .270 went through it with little problem. Doesn't all of this show that there is more than sufficient power in this round? Why go with expensive rounds that recoil so hard when you do not need it? I would go with the lowest class on the list presented simply due to the performance of the .270 and the fact that it will take down just about everything in North America without costing an arm and a leg, quickly burning out the barrel, or being hard to find on store shelves (even though I reload). To me, this is the choice for the poor and pragmatic.
I have killed most of my elk, deer and ear with 308 Win and 270 Win. Shot a few with a 30-06. None got away or ran more than a hundred yards.
2. With suppressor.
A day at the range with my light weight 3006 used to leave me a bit bruised. Now that I’ve got a suppressor it does not bother me at all. Shooting suppressed made me realize I had actually developed a flinch. My group sizes shrunk considerably. Also, I’ve stopped wearing hearing protection while hunting. A .22lr rings my ears more than my suppressed 3006. The downside of a suppressor is that is makes your rifle longer and can more easily snag on branches.
(2) Boot everything 28 Nosler and above.
Just my thoughts, when you pull up on an elk at 250yd, and don’t have think about getting scoped from a massive recoiling rifle you’ll probably have a better shot. (my pick is a 7mm rem mag for the winner)
I say cut out 28 nosler and above. Pretty much anything in that middle category will kill just about any popular big game animal so why worry about getting a even bigger gun and then have to worry about the recoil while taking the shot. You want to be as comfortable as possible shooting your gun.
Lets cut to the chase. Its going to come down to 7mm rem vs
270 win.
.270 in the right loadings is 88- 90% of a 7mm rem mag with 50-60% of the recoil.
There is not 1 argument in the bottom tear except maybe 308 that is in the conversation for "bang for the buck/value" that beats .270 also accounting for ammo availability.
The same the the 7mm rem in the middle tear for recoil/energy/ballistics and availability of ammo
Keep all of them. I enjoy getting punished on the shoulder. I really just want you to get a backcountry 2.0 in 30-378 WBY
Boot 28 Nosler and up but keep the 300 win mag. Once you get above the 300 win mag I feel like there isnt any advantage in 99% of hunting scenarios.
I agree but i would also say keep the 300 WSM in the running as well. So similar to 300 WM, but the more modern rimless case is pretty nice to have.
25-06 is my favorite because of its flat shooting and mild recoil. It’s great for whitetail…….probably for elk/caribou.
First off shootability is depending on the rifle, stock shape, material, recoil pad, and action type. Action type, single shot, lever action, bolt action, double rifle and how the stock mates with it. All too subjective and still not taking to account the game.
I am not a huge fan of big recoil. Through out all the magnums. The cartridges that hit the sweet spot for me are, in no particular order, 6.5 PRC, 270 Win, 6.8 Western, 270 WSM, 280 REM, and 280 AI. You could make a pretty solid argument for any of these for the “one” do all cartridge. Having said that I still want one of each. 😜
Thank you for the video man.keep em coming also love that shirt Let's Go Brandon.and if you are still doing voting I still vote for best shoot ability 308 win #2 270 win.and as far as your list for 28 nosler and above calibers go I have a 300 wsm and use to own a 30-06 and my 300 wsm kicked less than my 30-06. Some bullet weight and the rifles only weigh 3 oz difference.and the 30-06 is the one that weigh more so to me it all depends on fit of the rifle to the person who is shooting it.if a rifle don't fit the person shooting it its going to kick more than a rifle in they same caliber but with a rifle that fits well.so there is a lot to consider
Excellent presentation. Your spreadsheet could add a couple columns that reflect the human element. That being age and one's physical abilities/injuries associated with it as one goes from a teen to an old man. I totally agree that the
29 Eargesplittenloudenboomer is the ultimate cartridge. But not for me at my age. I see you guys tossed out the 7mm-08 for various reasons. That one is perfect for me so since you guys aren't using it I'll grab that rifle and go hunting while everyone argues over this. Thanks for the fine rifle and a very insightful video.
I have hunted for almost 70 years and mostly used my old Rem 700 .30-06 (since 1978) for medium and large game. I had a Winchester Model 70 .338 Win Mag and it was a very good shooting gun. It did kick a bit, but I'm 6'2" and weigh over 210 pounds, so I didn't think it was all that bad, but I would kick out the .28 Nosler and above for a deer/elk gun..
Option 2. Beefier requirements make it less of an all around cartridge. That middle group has plenty to offer and the recoil is manageable for almost all experienced hunters. I myself am recoil sensitive and I use a 30-06. For some reason, it seems to hit you less when actually hunting than it does target shooting.
Love the shirt, thanks for the info
Option 3. Love your videos! Awesome job!
Option (3)
The new 6.8 is fine tuned for heavier bullets that are the rage these days so I kinda want one but I'll never hunt anything but Mulies or White Tails so 270 Winchester 150 gr pills will keep on busting 'em just fine.
Wouldn't mind a 6.5 PRC either but if I was gonna hunt Elk or Moose the 280 AI looks like a winner.
I bet 280 AI wins this! It's just more than I need. Frankly I could get by with 243 Winchester but this is a fun watch.
I love your shirt I think the venerable old 30 odd 6 and 7 mm Rem Mag are very hard to beat
I would cut out the top group. We aren't hunting moose or dangerous game. And if you can, use a suppressor, and bring those mid level rounds down to lower tier recoil and blast. Not all states allow hunting with a suppressor, so you want something that doesn't Have to have it, but use it when you can.
I 100% agree, suppress every gun you reasonably can. Hunting rifles, precision rifles, AR's, AK's, PCC's! Their benefits are real for most guns, in most applications, for a variety of reasons from sound reduction, to recoil reduction, to signature and flash reduction. It really is the be all end all of muzzle devices if it doesn't make the gun too long or too heavy for its intended purpose. That being said, I would still boot everything .28 Nosler and up, option 2. I hate recoil, and I'd like the option to go without the suppressor if need be to get the length down.
Love the T-shirt!😂
Really great to see you’re a NASCAR fan🤣
I’d have to say boot .28 and up if they’re only comfortable with a brake or suppressed. Personally, I think in a 9lb rifle, most would be able to .300 Win with no brake/suppressed.
I can say (proudly) that I indeed invested in a suppressor and should get the stamp by March/April. I shot a friends rifle suppressed and couldn’t live without one - it’s definitely a game changer!
Option 2. Thank you for the content. I’m looking forward to the end result.
I love my 338 win I live in northern Canada and it's my go to round Grizzly moose deer it doesn't matter I never need a follow up shot my gun is 10.5 pounds. My longest shot is 630 yards on a bull elk.
(3) Boot everything 30-06-7RM and up.
Pick the category where recoil isn't an issue for most adult shooters.
I vote for 1, hard to rule out most of the .30 cals even without a suppressor but when you have a suppressor they definitely have to stay in and i would think the .300wsm has to be there. It's easy to carry, short action, light weight, and pretty much equal a .300 win mag in performance
Great shirt looks great even in Canada
I don’t care what the list says, I’m sticking with the 7mm-08.
Did I miss the cartridges that were voted to stay from episode one? When I was on, seemed most wanted to keep the 7-08. I didn’t see a video or a posting of which cartridges were kept, or officially scratched from the list. Love the content. I was stoked when I had this notification. Keep making the great content. Also I vote everything above a 7 mag is probably a little on the heavy side, so take remove those.