The Flattest Shooting Cartridges
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- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2024
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I guess some people in the comments didn’t catch that the “exterior rifling” quip was a joke. I’m a dad, so lame dad jokes are all I can deliver. 😊 Merry Christmas everybody! 🎄
Merry Christmas, James!
I’m not gonna search for the comments but it was kinda funny
I think it was great that your wife believed you. Mine is the same way she will be crazy things it’s awesome lol.
I need the backfire buttpad for my Sako S20!
Times must be tough when they're stealing wrought iron fencing to turn it into rifle barrels.
I’d like to see that same test with some traditional calibers. 270, 270wsm, 300 mag, 300WSM, 308, 6mm Remington etc. I’m guessing you’ve got a lot of followers like me with a bunch of rifles but not any of what you were shooting today. I enjoyed this video. Thanks.
270 is SUPER flat
I like your pics and would like to see out to a 1000 how they match up at each 100 also adding 7 Rem M.
Right ,creemors are cool but they are target shooting guns...
Those rounds are in the past embrace the new cartridges
Well. I hate to be the one to say it. But this is what most people own now. It’s hard for him to cater to those of us that still have an affinity for the older rounds when that’s not what people are using anymore. You’ll find 30+ 6.5 creedmoors for every 6mm rem around.
Exterior rifling.. 😂😂 He did well to keep a poker face when saying that to his wife. 😂
220 Swift: hold my beer, young ones.
Ron Spomer chose this is his similar video.
On 6.8 Western: There's a couple points missed that I think are important. 1.) Choice Ammunition has been making and selling ammo for the chambering for a couple months now. People seem happy with the 170 offerings there. They group as well if not better then the STGK 175s that so many people like from Browning. 2.) Fierce also chambers the 6.8, albeit that's a very expensive gun compared to Christiansen. Two big things hold it back right now, and they are related. Brass and mainstream ammo manufacturers. I'm a 6.8 Western owner and proponent. Personally, it's a good mix of everything you need in most hunting situations.
you said all the points I wished more people knew about. people seem to write it off very fast assuming its hard to find, but there's actually more factory offerings with 6.8 western than 7 prc. alot more. I'm glad to see it getting compared to the 6.5 PRC and 7mm PRC. starting to show how great it really is. start calling it the 27PRC and then people want to know more haha
I always enjoy the episodes that feature your wife. She is a cool lady and seems like a really nice person. It’s also always heartwarming to watch her shoot.
Love seeing the wife out shooting and enjoying the fun as well. Get her out much more on your free time. Would love to see her not scared of the recoil and take that flinching away. My wife is small petite as well. Took her only a few range trips and a couple boxes of rounds for her to stop. Just takes good teaching and proper technique. Great job guys. Keep shooting together. I enjoy it.
Great video -- we are so happy you love the rifle!
Thank you for your charts and data!! Simply professional grade.
I like comparsions about "flatness" to focus on maximum point blank range. That is the really only thing that matters with the flat trajectory imho. "How long can I shoot without worrying about adjustments" basically. That's why I run a 6.5-300 Wby!
The issue is max point blank is all about speed which is often at the expense of BC. That means to max point blank you sacrifice energy and wind drift further down range. Like most things there is no free lunch.
@@brettblose1658 always some kinda of compromise.
Though for almost any hunting situation. Way down range drift and energy aren't high priorities
When you boil it all down, trajectory is based on just one thing: Time of flight. Gravity doesn't care about your muzzle velocity, BC, bullet weight, twist rate, etc. It only cares how long that bullet is in the air. So the bullet that arrives quickest to the target will be the flattest shooting, every time. High muzzle velocity means a light bullet that will slow down quickly. A heavier, slower bullet with better BC may catch up to the light bullet and pass it by, arriving on target first. I'm glad you made the point that "flattest shooting" is dependent on what distance you're shooting at.
Noted that the 7mm PRC had a longer barrel than the 6.8Western
But the 6.8 Western out shot the highly rated 7mm PRC
I love my Browning Hells Canyon in 6.8 Western
It’s about time Hornady bit the bullet & produced some 6.8 Western ammo
And some other gun makers got into it 🎉 🇦🇺
Yeah, I'm curious what bullet weights were used for each of these.
I have to say I was pleased to see the 6.8 outperform the 7 PRC, even if marginally.
Yeah it was only 300 yards but if you go by all the hornady fanboys you would think the 6.8 doesn't stand a chance against 7 prc.
Hornady is loosing favor in my book by blackballing the 6.8 western.
It all depends on the load being used. The 7PRC is optimized for a 175gr so Im sure thats what he was shooting. It wont give great results at 300 in terms of drop though. I have a 28 nos that I loaded with 140gr AB and when zeroed at 100 it has less than 5in of drop at 300.
@@archeryhunter86-
I’m refusing to purchase anything with the name Hornady till they stop blackballing the 6.8 Western.
@@jimedick9496 it all about supply and demand.. I buy hornandy because i live in NE. i was going to buy the 6.8 but at that point the ammo and rifle was too expensive. again. he probably still has to later lot numbers of the 7prc ammo..
@@MrOchiman007
Normally, I agree with Supply and Demand. In this case, that’s not the issue with Hornady… Look up all the different carriages that Hornady loads for. There is crap that is very rare, yet they load for it. Hornady blackballed the 6.8 Western because they knew it was neck and neck with the 7 PRC, but Win/Browning beat them to the punch. They have openly said that they will not support the Western. No ammo, no projectiles, no dies, nothing. Then they print false velocities on their boxes claiming their 7 PRC achieves 3,000 ft/sec using a 24” barrel, when in reality, it’s around 2,840. This was done to cripple the sales of the Western.
So again, I will continue to boycott a lying company like Hornady till they stop the BS and promote what the customer wants.
Love the support and willingness to get involved by the wife. She's a good egg.
I feel sorry for you for all the inevitable comments you'll get telling you how wrong you are from people that only watched 2 minutes of the video. You actually covered pretty much all the bases if people would actually pay attention for long enough... Originally I was thinking .22-250, .204 Ruger, and .17 Rem Fireball to 300 yards- but again you covered further distances and B.C a little further into the program and expanded on more calibers. Good video 👍
HIs own chart shows that the 6.5-300 Wby is flatter shooting so it is pretty suspect to crown the 22 Creed the flattest
@@brettblose1658 You're not looking at the 300 yard line on his chart and he does mention things change out beyond 300.
@@nohandle257 look again at the chart at 10:46 the 6.5-300 wby is ahead at 200 and past 300 also. They only reason it shows 'even' at 300 yards is rounding.
Its strange talking about a flat shooting round. And. Not looking at the 257wb or 240wb
And they are coman cartridges at least in fl.
The biggest variable that wasn't covered was scope height. Taller rings means you have to have more upward trajectory from the barrel to the line of sight thru the scope which means with a 100 yard zero, the rifle with the taller scope height will appear to shoot flatter at distance than the same scope and cartridge with shorter rings. The scope on the 22CM was set way up there compared to the other "Western Rifles" where the bell on the scope was practically touching the barrel. The 22 CM he claimed was 2900 fps with G1 BC of .467 is not going to shoot flatter than the magnum hunting rifles shooting faster with BC's in the .6's.
Everything considered, I still really enjoyed the video. Thanks for posting it.
6.5 x 300wby
That's if you want something with more punch than a 22 when it connects
I think I'm the odd man out when I say that fluted corkscrew barrels look silly hahaha
Great testing!
I don't think you're an odd man out,but I do know from what I've experienced personally they are as accurate as a person could ask for.
I like the fluted bolts, the fluted barrels looks goofy as heck
Not the odd man out. I’d have a hard time carrying that thing around. I don’t really Like being approached by people I don’t know, and that thing is beginning to have questions and comments made.
I love my 6.8 western! I hate the brass options for it so if I could get one wish it would be Lapua or another quality brass manufacturer would make it!
Great content as always! It would have been good to include some of the other flat shooters for smaller game such as .17 rem or at least .204 ruger. Maybe a future video idea for the .22 creed?
Great idea mate
Great video!! Great info. BTW - I just put together a 7PRC with a barrel from Preferred Barrel Blanks that has external 1-8 fluting to match the internal rifling!
"Ruger fix the feeding in your rifles" the factory mags definitely do not allow for single loading. Have to use the mag or feed it into the barrel. Replace the bottom metal with magpul to use AI mags.
6.8 is impressive...cheaper round also
Been shooting a fast twist .22-250 Ackley Improved for over two decades now and can't help but laugh when I see shooters getting all giddy over how flat the 22 Creedmoor shoots when it's basically a ballistic twin to the 22-250AI. With an 80gr VLD and a 200 yard zero, my pet load with H4350 averages roughly 3,380fps which equates to a 6 mil (20.65 moa) drop at 1k yards. Now a 22 Super Hotrod (.284 Win necked down and shortened a bit) will push the same bullet at around 3800fps and only needs 4.5 mil @ 1k, but barrel life is only around 600-800 rounds. Ditto with the 20x47 Lapua pushing 55gr Berger's to nearly 4000fps and only needing 4.9 mil @ 1k. One just has to decide if the need for speed and flat-shooting is worth the trade-off of a very short barrel life. The .22-250 AI (and accordingly the new 22 Creed) fall into the "happy medium" area offering a typical barrel life of around 2000-2500 rounds before the throat is shot out.
Would love to see more tests like this with 30cals only, and rimfire only etc, really enjoyed this video thanks Jim👍💥💥
Fastest in each caliber is the flattest. Fastest 30 is 30-378 WBY. Just be prepared to be brutalized by recoil
300 Lapua Magnum?
Would have been nice to see the 270 130 gr.
Amazing how quickly the Vakjory completely disappeared
The 6.8 Western did well. What bullet was used? I use 170 Berger EOL sighted in at 200 yards. At 300 yards only get a 7 1/2” drop. Too bad Hornady and others are shunning this cartridge. It is a remarkable cartridge. By the way your wife is so nice, you owe her an apology, tell her you are sorry!
It was the 162gr copper impact
“Just TWO things; velocity and BC! Oh,…and BC incorporates line half a dozen other things. But just two things.” :)
The greatest thing about those Horizon fluted barrels is that they can double up as masonry drill bits.
Love your videos - greetings from South Africa
Exterior rifling. That's epik!
6:34 Exterior rifling FTW!
Thank you for doing this! You should do a 600 yard test and compare it to what the manufacturer website says.
It’s not common, nor that incredible
22-250 AI with fast twist barrel is superior
That's basically what a 22 Creedmoor is. Not exactly dimensionally the same, but same concepts in very similar concept and outcome.
You hit that nail on the head, nothing common about 22 Creedmoor.
Fierce offers the 6.8 western as well. It os in the Rival line.
Back when I was getting into coyote hunting in the late 90’s I remember an article showing the 257 Wheathery was the flattest shooting caliber with a 243 using 55 grain bullets a close second. I own four 243s now and zero 257 wheatherby’s. Remberembered the wheatherby were super long chambered so they couldn’t be loaded for ultimate accuracy imo.
The title should be the flatest I shot. You missed a number of flatter shooting calibers.
The only thing about 6.8 western is that no other ammo manufacturers are making it.
I love watching all of your videos, I have been watching so much of your firearm reviews lately. Is there any way you could do a review on a Christensen Arms Mesa or Ridgeline? I've seen your thoughts on the ranger, but I would love to see you review one of their centerfires.
Your world be the only/first review (I think) of that 6.8. You've re-peaked my interest in buying that gun.
time does not effect gravity. its mass is the main factor, disregarding air resistance. If you roll a tennis ball off a table at 2mph and another one at 20mph, they will hit the ground at the same time, just at different distances.
Your wife is very supportive, I hope you appreciate that. Thnx for the video.
.277 caliber bullets are very good long range bullets
ADG is looking into producing brass for the 6.8 Western later on this year. I’m crossing my fingers that they do in fact start producing brass since they are a quality brass company.
Dude, You’re a lucky man!
You could further narrow down what’s important in flat shooting to ONE thing…time of flight. Shoot a bullet, drop a bullet off the bench, they hit the ground at the same time. Higher BC just means the air isn’t slowing it down as fast.
Flat nose, flat face!!?? I will name my French Bulldog Legend when I get her. 🤣🤣
Awesome video! Thanks for your comment on our Continental Spotting Scope😊And hope you have a nice experience with it.
According to your chart, I would say if someone was crazy enough you could develop a .22-300 Weatherby magnum and basically shoot a lazer to 300. Provided you could keep the bullets together on impact and make them 90-100 grains. Maybe someone’s already done that. Who knows.
I was going to make a really cool comment but I'll just say.. "What he said".. He covered it. Thanks Jim excellent video as always.
I would also love to see you do a video on the ‘flattest shooting cartridge’ of the EAST. Like for the straight wall only states and whitetail woods guys. I think that would be different and make a good video. And do it to 200 or 250yd.
It’s intriguing to see the 22-250 start out with the absolute highest velocity but come in dead last at staying above 2k fps., it slows down really fast.
Thats only because standard 22-250 barrels have a slow twist for 40-55 grain bullets. Put a 1:7 or 1:8 twist on a 22-250 and some 80 grain bullets and it changes everything. It's not as fast as 22 cm but can still push them hard.
Loved the purple coat
I was gonna say "laser beam" but I just remembered we don't have that yet.
Thanks for showing. That range is in my back yard
"22 Creedmore is the flattest shooting common cartridge out to 300 yards"
204 Ruger: Allow me to introduce myself.
Awesome news to hear, I have a custom 22cm with the wombat action being built at Horizon now. Its going in a Hnt26 and i should have your recoil pad before Christmas. Love your content!
You should have done a 30 ot 6 … I was shooting Remington 180g core lok from a 100yard zero out to 330 yards and the drop was negligible .. less than what your 22 creedmoor did in this test … I don’t really know how to explain it because I was as supprized as you may be reading this .. using a browning xbolt rifle with a 300$ Nikon SFP scope
You have so many rifles, I would like to know some of your favorite rifles. I'm sure you have done a video on it already. I have seen some new modern bolt rifles coming out this year that have me in the market or atleast looking. Great video as always.
Waiting on my 22 cm barrel, I'm pretty excited. I have gotten so used to my 6.5-300 trajectory it's hard to go back to some of the slower cartridges..
30-378 165 --or 28 nosler 140 257 weatherby mag with a 90 grain bullet at 300 yards --try those
Please do a review on an allterra arms rifle! They’re super high quality and innovative. People need to know about them!
Some specs i will use on this test:
Same barrel length for all rifles
Same or similar BC
Reload to max loads, no factory ammo.
This will be more consistent to reach conclusion
Finally: bullet drop is not difficult with a range finder and a good scope.
Wind drift and mirage are the important things for long range shooting.
For hunting i consider 500 yards the max range.
I would have liked to seenbwhat a 300 wsm with 180 yrain norma bondstrikes would have did because velocity over 3000 fps and a bc over 600 is what they claim definitely should be pretty flat and definitely enough gunnfor elk and moose
Also not the barrel burner these other would be being a 30.
Height of scope above bore line also factors in to apparent bullet drop.
SHOULD HAVE HAD THE 6,5 - 300 WEATHERBY
@7:45 the ballistics chart has 28 nosler listed as a .308 caliber.
I thought you didn’t like the Seekins precision Havak Ph2 or element because of the barrel fluting but you like the 22 creedmoors
Could you please do a video on different Kimber rifles? I own several used Kimber rifles and really enjoy them. I know they can be spendy but I know very little about their history or how well others have done with them Thank for all the info you pass on.
I would like to see you do an accuracy test of cowboy guns, the old lever actions.
I am going to do a similar video on my channel. Featuring the following cartridges.
22-250, 6 arc, 6 br, 6.5 creedmoor, 6.5 prc, 280ai, 7mm prc.
Just deciding 200 or 300 yards. I think 300 is a better idea.
Thank you for this excellent excellent
What about the 204 Ruger????
how does the 22-250 compare... cant believe you left that one out since i would guess its the most comparable.... guessing you left it out on purpose for that reason ?
This is very interesting. You realize that all these cartridges except the 350 Legend have a MPBR of 300 yards with a 8 inch target.
Awesome video ! This is great information.
Can you do a video about the 22 creedmor. Ballistics info and what we could shoot at what distance. Maybe go into how you could have one built since the Horizon ones are so expensive!
Dad joke on point, I laughed at loud. I looked at that chart and was all in on that 28 Nosler, but that recoil oof. I just brought my first bolt action on black Friday sales. Waiting on my Woox Furiosa Ultra and Aero Solus in 308. Made the decision on this setup to learn
Thank you 😊
Long heavy bullets are not a new thing, PO Ackly wrote about it decades ago. ( All should read his books) Back in the day the powders just could not wring out the velocity.
The same cart is the 308/6mm Rem -22. been around a LONG time.
FWIW I think the 6.5 craze is just a repeat of history , 6.5-308's have been around since eeh 1954.
the diff is the powders,,,NOT the Cartridge.
Load 22-250/220 swift with long projectiles and things start to get closer to zero.
I would've liked to see the 25-06 in the mix
The biggest factor in bullet drop is gravity. Gravity accelerates all masses at the same rate toward the ground. So time of flight is a major factor. The faster the velocity the shorter the time of flight. Then the BC of the bullets can be considered. The BC effects the rate of loss of velocity. Which effects the time of flight. A lower BC means the bullet will lose velocity faster getting to the target in a longer time, gravity acts on it longer and this causes the bullet to drop further over the same distance. The size of the cartridge or the type of cartridge has nothing to do with flat shooting except how much velocity that cartridge can impart on the bullet. If you have two cartridges of different calibers shooting bullets with the same BC at the same velocities you would get the same results. It's not magic. Its Ballistics.
.28 nosler has amazing energy.
What range is that?
I would of loved to see you shoot your 28 nosler as well. Excellent video as always. All the best from Canada.
You left out the 22-250 on the board
The flattest caliber that I own is the 257 WBY MAG!
#savethe6.8western yeeeesssss !
,
Love the show and thanks for all the knowledge and hard work you do.
I was wondering if you have ever done a show/review of the Seekin Precision Arm, specifically either of their two hunting rifles, the PH2 or the Element.
The are based out of Lewiston Idaho and I’m considering picking one up in a 300 PRC.
Thanks again.
You’re not really going to compare a 22creed to at 6.5, 6.8 or 7. Not even in the same ball park in reality. Varmint calibre verse medium to larger game caliber!!!!
Would have loved to see you add in the 204 ruger.
I made the "mistake" of teaching my wife to shoot. After a couple of lessons she could outshoot me offhand/free style. Because of her body type she could rest her elbow on her hip bone and geezers, shoot like a banshee. Think of a Kirsten Wiese with a shorter torso......lol
200 yard zero FTW! Also on at 50 and very little drop to 300 for most cartridges
So you shoot a bunch of overbore cartridges. Stunning, brave, and already done to death.
Conveniently left out the 204 ruger 😅
More on the 22 Creedmore, please. Have a Merry Christmas!
Also the .7mm STW.
I'll stay with the tried and true .308 with 168 grain, 100yd zero, under 9" drop at 300 yd
Fantastic video! We can look at numbers all day but showing your tall target with different calibers really had an impact. (Yeah, I know. Pun intended.)
Jim, at 10 min., 17 seconds, your chart shows the .28 Nosler has a bullet diameter of 308. Is that correct? Could it be about .284? Please write back to help me understand.
Just out of curiosity - sometime look at the 6.5 Grendel.