Best Distance to Zero a Hunting Rifle
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 17 окт 2024
- GEAR I LIKE
Axil GS Extreme ear pro goaxil.com/pag...
My favorite scopes (blog post) backfire.tv/scope
My favorite rifles (blog post) backfire.tv/be...
The Backfire RUclips Channel is owned and operated by Backfire LLC, a Utah limited liability company.
I did a bad job of explaining the part at 4:16 about shooting to 1,000 yards. On most scopes, it won't make any difference. However, on some scopes like the one I'm using in this video, they only allow one rev of elevation adjustment. It's stopped at the top and bottom of the rev even though the scope has more adjustment available. So it's applicable on this scope but not on most scopes.
For me it depends where I’m hunting and what I’m hunting, in dense bush it’s 100, but for most of time it’s 200 but I make sure I know my ballistics and verify my hunting range that I would shoot at.👍
Someones trying to scam me on here saying i won a prize
Cool….one day I hope to shoot a 1000….600-800 I’m ok a 1000 that’s a long poke
@@steveburlingame1935 yeah I think I get that every time I leave a comment on backfire. He's mentioned it a while ago it's total bull crap. Been going on for quite a while.
Unless you are limited to a specific range such as a known distance competition like a 1k yd match, or the scope is a fixed power optic like a 4x, zeroing at anything other than 100 is a bad idea. Obviously if the optic won’t let you dial past a certain mark that changes the situation as well.
The reason why you should always zero for 100 is every adjustment is up. If the target is closer than 100 your hold is *UP*. If the target is beyond 100, you still go *UP* to make the correction, no matter if you dial or use hold over.
I think it depends where you live. I choose 100 yard zero. Where we hunt in TN we never even get shots past 50 yards normally. People out West may commonly shoot 2-300 yards.
What's your point of impact at 25 yards with a 100 yard zero? I'm lookin to do this on one of my 556 guns.
I agree with whoteewho
@@tylertapp131 a 5.56? I assume its an AR15. You zero at 25yds. You aim center mass at 100yds and youll land head shots, and when shooting at 300yds youll land center mass aiming center mass. Thats assuming you have a 16" barrel.
Lived in ontario and alberta…ontario never past 65-80 yards yesterday i missed two wolves at 400 yards. So much more land out west
Seen them at 1500 little black dots thar moved ….
Capped turrets 200-250 yard zero. If you dial then 100. 100 is just so easy to check in camp compared to 200. Great info in this vid. We see eye to eye alot. I also am a huge fan of the backcountry hunting podcast and gunwerks podcast. Great info and keep up the good work!!
I just use 200 for consistency sake
Yeah I’d say 200 whether you fiddle with dials or not. Closer shots tend to happen faster, and dialing at 200 yards is an unnecessary waste of time.
There is no difference between a 100 yd zero and a 200 (50) yd zero if you know how to adjust your turret. With a 50/200 yd zero you adjust less to get to 400 than if you start at 100. Otherwise it’s just a different point of reference initially.
Sight in at 100. Dial to 2 MOA high while hunting. If for some reason, I had a shot at 300+ out east...I'm going to redial anyway...or let it walk. I have stopped using scopes that do not have a zero stop for this very reason. Quick and easy to get back to the starting point.
If I have a 300 yard shot with my pre 64 Model 70 in .270 Win, I take it with open sights, no problem.
@@ranchodeluxe1 Your eyes are far better than mine. I have to use binos to determine bucks from does at 300. I see deer shapes
My first trip to the deer fields was in 1975 with my Grandfather. He shot one rifle and one load for everything! Varmints on the farm, coyote and deer. 30-06 150 Winchester. He zeroed at 200 " 200 hundred paces then" and learned his holdover for distance and wind. I shoot 8mm Mauser 180 Nosler Ballistic tip or 180 Hornady GMX zeroed at 200. I too have learned my hold over for distance and wind. This is my only hunting rifle for everything I hunt, Coyote, Hogs, Deer, Antelope, Sitka, Goats, Sheep, and Axis deer. I use a scout scope. No fancy adjustable this or that. I feel we are loosing a whole generation of rifleman that haven't learned how to shoot there rifle and given load. There is too much reliance on technology to improve your "skill" as a marksman and hunter. I learned my hold overs as an Infantry solder, just as my father and Grandfather did in there respective Units during Vietnam and WWII. What we learned then definitely carries over to the hunting fields. If you're only purpose is to hunt and harvest at long range, past 300 yards. I don't see much hunting skills,spot and stalk being used . To close my rant, a 200 yard zero with a 6" kill zone is perfect. A deer size animal at 300 yards, aim for the top of his back above the shoulder and he is going down!!
Couldn't agree more. I like to call the reliant on tech boys, geardos.
I spent lots of time practicing my first rifle $299 Ruger American 243 with a cheap scope Bushnell Banner dusk till dawn and I haven't missed a target soda can size or hunting a small game or bid game headshot from 0 to 300 yards for the past years. It's all about practice and know your rifle
Do what works for you. Technology is only useful when it works.
Best answer.
the point he is making though is that zeroing at a longer distance will not give you a true zero because of wind. yes learning how to hold for distance and wind is important but that is not the point he is making
I'm 66 years old and have started hunting way before range finders were used for hunting, and I have always sighted my 30/06 in at 2" high at 100 yards, shooting 165 grain Nosler partitions. When I check zero at 200 it is dead nuts on, at 300... 7" low. If someone can explain to me why this doesn't work please do so... I might add that there was nothing he said here that is likely to change my mind.
With you. Hold center with confidence out to 230. Dialing is for greater range and time.
Robert Carey we are cut from same cloth. Army taught me long ago you will sight in closer and hold under or shoot a certain range that matches the trajectory. 200 make more since to me for 30 cal but that’s JMHO.
It seems to me if you shoot the same ammunition with the same gun probably every year. You have probably been shooting that weapon for a very long time. It's just an extension of your hand at this point. If you are like most guys you probably hunt the same area or the same piece of property as well so you know it like the back of your hand you know your ranges. So with a familiar rifle familiar bullet familiar terrain of course you're going to shoot dead nights every time. There's more than one way to skin a cat.
Many years ago my dad taught me to zero a hunting rifle at 25 yards. Yes, 25 yards. That way there isn't much room for error, wind drift, etc. Not only that but if you use a graduated target you can do it with one round. No point in shooting a group, even a lousy rifle is gonna essentially put them through the same hole at that range. Most of the time that'll translate to an inch or two high at 100, pretty close to dead on at 200, and a little low at 300. Of course a person needs to actually shoot at those ranges to build confidence and know for certain where they're hitting, like he described with the milk jugs, I also like to shoot at milk jugs at various ranges for the same reasons he stated. To be honest, the people I've always seen missing and wounding game, are the ones who spend way too much time cranking on their scope adjustments, and not nearly enough time building the skills to hit a target first time every time with the zero they already have.
Same here in euro. We used to do 100m and holdover since you knew the size of the animal and drop but now what I do is sight at 100m +5cm a dead 200m zero
You talked about your wandering zero. In my experience, nearly all rifles have that. I run an AI-AT with Night force optic ($7500 gun) for work. I shoot a 3 round group out of it every week and It wanders up to an inch from week to week, usually less. The gun I had before this one was a Remington 700 PSS and it did the same thing.
Engineers and manufacturers are getting better at keeping tighter tolerances all the time, but keep in mind that they are called tolerances for a reason. It's because they're not perfect. It is possible that there is a .0001 variable in your sig cross and vx3 setup. That's all it would take to get a half an inch at 100 yards. What you do is shoot several groups over the course of several weeks and find the center of all of them and zero for that. Then as your zero moves around, it will move around the X and you will never be very far from center. Don't get in the habit of chasing your zero, it will drive you nuts.
Exactly! I completely agree. Would also like to add with your comment that the environment will always change that zero slightly. Wind, altitude, temperature, even what time of the day you are shooting vs sighted in. You’ll go crazy chasing that zero because it’s always off just a touch.
@@1776carpediem that’s exactly the first thing that came to mind when he said that. Temp, humidity, barometric pressure, elevation would alter zero a little.
Yes! 100%!
That’s just the temperature and humidity
A lot of that variance has to do with temperature and atmosphere changes.
I've sighted in at 50yards for 30+years and have 0 issues hitting what I'm aiming at. Never dial the scope for a shot either. 50 yard sight in with my 7mm allows me to hit without adjustment out to roughly 300 after that I just aim higher accordingly. Cross hairs on top of a deers back at 500 yards puts the bullet in the vitals.
I think that the point blank range is great if thats your acceptable accuracy within the range that you know that your going to shoot at. I find that if your target is outside of that area, then trying to figure and remember holds will be more difficult. With a 100 yd zero( if thats what you need), you'll always go up, not down and up. For combat I think a 300 zero makes sense. But that is of course just my way of seeing it. 👍
The Zero doesn't really matter, but should match the most likely Shot potential. Probably most influenced by the shooter ability. Also depends on your cartridge and bullet. No matter where I sight my gun in, I always make an elevation chart, showing what the zero is out to what I am comfortable shooting at (in ideal conditions). Also as you pointed out...practice is key in hunting situations. A tip a will share, is to get a bore sight. Check your scope with it once you have it dialed in, and take it with you on your hunts. If you drop your gun or even if it may have had a rough trip, you can take out your bore scope and see if it isn't right where it should be. Sometimes there isn't time to check your rifle on a range the night before you hunt. This has served me well for many decades of hunting all over the world, and most of it with a long range pistol. ;-)
It's really about where you hunt. Low country and back east and it's probably 100 yards. Out here in Montana at elevation and that's plinking range
Oh hey dude! Its cool seeing you on guntube I stead of tooltube
@@autodidacticartisan I used to Post contact like this but RUclips didn’t like me mix it up and dinged me pretty bad back in the day. In fact a lot of my contact is still downplayed because of it
@@denoftools as much as I love being on RUclips, I have to admit, youtube as an entity can be a mean b*tch
I'm just really impressed with how well that Sig cross did grouping at 200 yards. Impressive, indeed
Sig cross is an ammo snob. My cross sux until you put in Hornady eldx 143 grain. Then she's shooting 5 shot groups a penny size.
I typically sight in high at 100 to equal a 200 zero. Hasn't failed me yet
Same. And it isn't "inch and a half high at 100" it's 2" high, because that corresponds to my particular bullet drop. Not sure what's the problem.
Works for most of us
I do the same
See my above comment, but I sight at 100 for 200 too. Wind doesn't bother you there either...
Love the video but I have to disagree. I use the 1”-1 1/2” high @100 for years. Disclaimer I don’t shoot much past 300 yards. But I use the same method on the prairie dog fields. I see the big problem as the loss of Nikon and the BDC scopes and ballistics software is gone and going away. I’ve used it in the field for years and it works amazing!!! I don’t know what will happen when the program and it’s scopes go away! I’ll have to rebuy everything!😥
When I set up my scope (s), I have always sight-in to hit 2.5” high at 100 yards. Field shooting is never like shooting from a bench or the ground (normal like your demonstration). So many things change. The furtherness game that I have taken, was a little over 200 yards; mule deer buck Montana 11 pointer. A great hunt.
It's a scam
I think the confusion (and argument) comes from misunderstanding the two senses in which a rifle can be "zeroed." One is the calibrating the POA/POI to particular distance so avoid the need for adjusting turrets or holding off/over/under. But what we're really trying to do is calibrate the POA /POI for ALL distances, not just one distance. That means we need a closer reference to ensure the zero is as close to true as possible, and not skewed by wind or by ammo MV variability. Let's say you zero at 50y. Your POI and POA are precisely aligned. You should now be able to send a couple rounds to 100y to verify that the drop is exactly as predicted by your app inputs (atmospherics, scope height over bore, MV, BC, etc). Send some to 200 to verify if you want. The point here is that once you have a precise calibration, you can easily set your elevation to be whatever distance you want it to be. And if you "zero" at 50, then offset to create a "compensated zero" at 200y, you'll have a much tighter and more reliable zero than if you just shot at 200y. This of course assumes your turrets track and the scope is repeatable. If you have one that doesn't, then zeroing closer to your max range might be advisable.
The old Nikon app used to use separate inputs for "zero distance" and "target distance" which is really useful. It could tell you how high to zero at 50y if you wanted to be on at 100 or 200.
And if you want to maximize MPBR, it becomes a simple exercise of adjusting your elevation reference to whatever distance gives that MPBR. This will be the distance where the height of the bullet's trajectory becomes tangent to (but doesn't exceed) the radius of your vital zone "tube" that Jim references. If you use a 6" vital zone, the MPBR will give a trajectory where the bullet *just* approached 3" above LOS but no higher. And then it hits the MPBR as it falls out the bottom of the bottom 3" half of your zone.
The best approach (IMO) is to learn your drops for your preferred load and accurately range the target. Ultimately, there's no substitute knowing your DOPEs and being able to apply them. And then it frankly doesn't matter whether your elevation turret is set to align the crosshairs at 100, 200, or whatever. You'll know your craft and be able to make it work regardless.
Yeah I don't have much experience here but I don't use the terminology in that way. I "sight in" my rifle at 100 yds, but then I "zero" it at 200 and check it at that distance. But I'm out west and 200+ yard shots (mule deer, pronghorn, elk although I've never had an elk tag) are common.
i like your description of MPBR zeroing.... that is what i am trying to do with my 300wm. as you mentioned, there are many dependencies for it - barrel length, twist rate, cartridge loading, bullet weight, etc.
Sighting in at your close zero should be followed up by verifying that it hits point of aim at your far zero. Let’s assume your scope rings are .2” higher than you thought. You’re one of those guys that sights for a 6” mpbr (way too big) so your close zero is around 25 yards. Your rifle will shoot 2.4” higher at 300 yards than you thought, add in the 3”-5” group an MOA rifle will produce in field positions and that bullet is now going 5” higher than you planned.
Sure check it at 100 to see it’s shooting where your ballistic program says but that’s not always correct either. The best way to sight for mpbr is to check that the elevation is bang on for your far zero.
@@Trythis837 yes. But also important to recognize not every scope and rifle combination has a near and far zero. If you zero at trajectory apex, you’ll have only one zero.
@@G5Hohn that’s impossible. Every rifle has to have a near and far zero.
Well I suppose you could theoretically find a trajectory apex and cut into the very top of it but man alive that would take some very precise math.
I can’t do anything with my ballistic calculators to get the near and far zero closer than 4 yards apart. I suppose technically if you kept cutting that distance down you could find the apex but then again that 75-90 yard zero range the apex is in is probably the worst distance to zero a rifle at that there is, so is anyone going to be sighting in there?
Jim, You are a legend in your own mind. Cultivate humility. It will make you a better person.
If wind deflection at 200 yards is of concern, perhaps you could zero elevation at 200 and come back to 50 yards to zero windage?
Good idea. Technically there's a little spin drift in there, but it would be very minimal.
@@backfire spin drift is a non-factor at 200 yards.
A 175 grain match king shot from .308 at 2410 fps has an MOA wind constant of 10 to 1000 yards meaning a full value 10mph wind would only displace that bullet 4 inches at 200 yards In other words, for many modern cartridges wind inside 300 yards is moot.
@@charlesludwig9173I don’t think his point is that it will affect you inside that range but that you could have an inaccurate zero that could throw you off significantly for longer shots
I have brought up on 4- 5 other channels that Elmer Keith recommended sighting in 1/4 inch left at 100 yards to allow for bullet yaw in a right hand twist barrel. There has never been a comment, rebuttal or retort. That advice has served me well. I'm 62. It makes a difference. I understand you had a left to right wind. JMHO. Thanks.
Very informative video. Thanks. I sight in for 100 yards. I created a dope card using my ballistics app to calculate MPBR for 2", 3", 6", 10" 18", 24" target size. This is rifle specific, load specific, environment specific. Example, for my 300 Win Mag with 180gr Berger I sight in at 100 yards, My MPBR for a 10" target size (deer) tells me to adjust turret elevation 3.73" (or hold over) for 316 yard far zero with MPBR of 373 yards. Most of the time I don't even need to mess with the turret because if I know my target size beforehand I set the scope prior to going into the field.
What app do you use?
I always use 300 yards as my long range zero. Here's the difference though, once you've worked up a load, go to JBM Ballistics or something similar and run your load in their trajectory calculator. I do this and then print out that card it gives as my 0-1500 yard adjustments on my 7mm Mag. For other shorter range calibers I use 1000 or 500 or 200, like for my hornet. The point is, once you have that, you know how high your bullet should be striking at 100 yards to judge this. So if I zero at 100 yards and my card says it should be 4" high at 100 yards for example, then you have your "true windless" 300 yard zero. Just a thought. ;) I have a range with 300 yards and good berms, so it's not too hard to find a calm day to test also. *** could be your powder temperature sensitivity also***
I never thought about wind drift on a long zero, but I live in an area where most deer are taken within 50 yards. I would never shoot a bullet that I didn't know the trajectory of though. I like math and precision, so I disagree that it's poor form to zero high at 100 yards to get a 200 yard zero. The math should be backed up with real world testing after the zero though. You can zero high at 100 and shoot to 200 and see if the elevation is right, and the windage seem correct for the given wind direction. I do love these geeky videos though!
If you sight in high at 100 the wind shouldn’t be an issue. The wind would be sighted at 100
@@mmorris6341 yep, I get that. doesn't hurt to keep an eye on it at longer ranges.
The wind thing is overblown. Yes if you go zero in 20 mph winds that is not good and will effect zero but anyone with a brain isnt going to zero a rifle in those conditions. Even with a 90 degree 5 mph wind at 200 its only about an inch of drift as long as your cartridge of choice isnt something like a 45-70.
That is the way I sight in. Depending on caliber, you determine how high the shot needs to be at 100 to be dead on at 200. Then sight in and confirm at 200.
@@Nick-sx6jm I agree, the main reason I'll be sighting in at 100 yards is that I don't have a place to shoot 200 yards. open country hunting and forest hunting is so different there will always be these issues that effect one more than the other. It seem that Jim doesn't do forest hunting enough to take it into consideration. I wish I had wide open plains to shoot.
25 yard zero works too. Removes all wind issues, and you can get your zero absolutely dead center. You will need to test your particular load at various ranges, but the .243, 6.5, and .270 can be aimed center mass on a coyote out to 300 yards or so. I’m too cheap for range finders and adjustable turrets, so this works for me
You can always chronograph your loads.. check a balistic chart.. sight in at 100 and then try shooting at 200 and 300 so you are more aware.
I shoot coyotes with my 22-250. Im usually about 1,3/4 high at 100 which puts me almost right on at 300.. thats with a 50gr bk @4000fps
I had VX5 on my Sig Cross 308 as well for a while. I belive thats what your using as well. It ended up being the scope not keeping constant zero. I had to send it back to Leupold to get looked at, they repaired it and sent it back. Now it works fine. I did some research and found that has been a common issue with some of the VX5's.
I also have to say, huge fan of your videos and content. Keep up the great work.
Deer have vitals with a 6” diameter. Both groups are the same distance from the centre. Kill assured! More wind? You’d adjust anyway.
Hey Jim, please give your thoughts on the following hybrid method as I can understand your negative points regarding accuracy of truly zeroing at 200 yards... This method assumes you have a chronograph & good ballistic data. You start with chrono data & get your avg FPS, afterward note your height over bore and run the numbers through 4DOF or another calculator with a stated 200 yard zero. You view the tables to see what your elevation is in inches at 100 yards with the stated 200 yard zero in the calculator. Do your zeroing shooting at 100 yards and shooting high to whatever your ballistic calculator states based on your ballistics. Set that as your zero and then confirm with a couple 200 yard shots. Thoughts? I just did this for my 22" 7mm Rem Mag shooting Hornady Outfitter ammo with the new CX bullet and came out with 1.59" high at 100 yards.
This is what I do and my gun is spot on. Punching steel at 700 yards. No issues.
I use a .243...I always sight it in 1 in high at 100 yards... and it's on at 200 yards... I do the same thing with my 22‐250....works GREAT.! And I always use the same ammo.
The end of the video is some really good advice especially for new hunters like myself. Best way to simulate what it takes out in the field to hit vitals on the first shot. Thank you for recommending that with milk jugs. I have not had my first hunt yet and will definitely be trying this out to truly ensure I have what it takes to harvest an animal respectfully on first shot.
I really enjoy watching your videos because they offer sound & unbiased pros/cons of whatever subject your video is about.
I am not a long range tack driver, but after some bad shots on a whitetail several years ago I became somewhat obsessed with accuracy. I'm one of the ones that utilizes a ~200 yard zero. Actually the long range zero depends on the caliber (200 yards for .270 or 300 yards for 7mm Weatherby).
However I don't shoot high and just call it good. I look at the ballistics of my chosen round (I'm very picky about ammo I shoot. Unless I can't find to purchase, I shoot exclusively Nosler Partitions). I look at the long range ballistics of whatever cartridge I'm shooting and use the point of impact at 100 yards (whether 1.4" for .270 or 3.1" for 7mm Weatherby) as my benchmark.
The reason I do this is because for either cartridge I have the same point of aim out to 250 yards for the .270 and 350 for the 7mm Weatherby. What are your thoughts on this??
And what about that wandering zero? How can that be mitigated? It's a confidence killer!
The wandering zero can be fixed by using a hard gun case, but the rifle has to be stabilized INSIDE the case as well. I use old t-shirts for this, folding them enough to snugly grip the stock and fore end.
@@chriskourliourod1651 It stays inside a hard gun case, all the time.
But, are you stabilizing the arm INSIDE the case? Heavy-barreled arms have a way of shifting even inside a hard case, and the resulting vibration of hard matter on hard matter can shift the zero. It’s happened to me, so that’s why I’m emphasizing the point. The evil devil is indeed in the details.
@@chriskourliourod1651 Yes. It stays inside an expensive Plano hard gun case that was around $300 and very heavy. Inside that case the rifle lays inside a very tightly cut out piece of foam. Unless I'm missing something I highly doubt it's the case. I definitely see the point you're making though! When you speak of stabilizing the arm, I'm assuming you mean the barrel?
Furthermore, I ended up sending the scope in to Leupold. After hearing back from them, they did quite a bit of work to the scope so I'm hoping the issue is fixed. I have to brag on Leupold because the whole process was relatively hassle free.
I meant stabilizing the entire arm. I hope everything goes well for you when you tune your rifle. Good hunting to you!
I am no expert but in the 30 years i have been shooting and hunting. I have always used 100 yard zero.
Since 1992 I have been shooting 7mm Mag here in Australia, I zero at 200 metres and never shot anything beyond 300 metres, so I for my hunting it works just fine and never used a rangefinder either.
Cheers from down under.
Always sighted in at 100 yards, about 3" above bullseye. Had a 30-06, 30-30, and 35 Remington. Last two drop about 6-7" at 200 yds, and 30-06 drops that much at 300. Longest shot I ever took on a buck has been 70-80 yards. I have passed on bucks at 400-500 yards because it was too far. I passed on bucks at about 60 yards because that's too far for me with my bow. Get closer. Edit: if you can't accurately measure 100 yards on a slight slope, use a rangefinder with an angle compensator. It will let you know when you are 100 horizontal yards away.
You are 6 to 7 inches low at 200 by sighting in at 100 instead of sighting in at 200 and being 7 inches low at 300. You're making it harder on yourself with the 100 yard zero. Especially shooting a 30 cal.
@@200130769 , I said that I sighted in at 100 yards about 3" above the bulseye. That puts my groups at 3" high at 100 yards. It's called Point Blank Zero. With the 30-30 and 35 Remington out to 200 yards and the 30-06 out to 300 yards I can center the crosshairs on a deer's heart/lung area and squeeze the trigget. Even if I miss the heart I get a double lung shot.
@@200130769 reasoning like this everyone should zero his rifle at 1000 yards.. if he zeroes a rifle shopting a non flat trajectory cartridge at 200, at 100 the bullet will be too high
@@ssimossimo576 I don't really consider 1 3/4 inches too high at 100 yards.
@@200130769 who talked about 1 ¾ inches? If you zero at 200 yards many calibers will be much higher than that at 100-130 yds
With flatter shooting magnums or say a 22-250, I sighted in 1.5 inches high at a 100 yds. I also always used a fixed power 6x Leopold scope on all my rifles. Not enough magnification for prairie dogs at four hundred yds and too much for an elk at 15 yds, but it is how you can get off a shot fast. The trajectory/rangefinder is automatically, instantly computed from the brain. (with of course, lots of shooting and hunting experience).
I always zero at 547 yards, I’ve done this my entire life. It’s by far the best way to zero in a rifle.
All you need is the base of the triangle be the known distance, up or down hill doesn’t matter. 100 yd or meter and know how MOA works is the most accurate. Which focal plane is the scope.
If you are using mpbr instead of just using 200, check a ballistic calculator for the actual near and far distances. Near zero is usually in the 25-30 yard range. No need to worry about the wind. Zero at near and verify the far.
Standard US Army method. Probably works for most of us. At the very least, you get on paper more readily. I hesitate to think how long my 1993 Ft. Bragg zero would've taken had we done it on a KD. That old M16A1 was so messed up the gun would barely put rounds on the right edge at max windage, and they finally figured it was the gun. I zeroed the replacement in short order.
So, I set my zero to 200 because the majority of the opportunities I get in the field are around 200 yards. I like knowing I’m only about 2” off from zero to 250 yards.
I sight in 1.4” high at 100 yards (which takes the windage worry off the table). Then I verify my elevation at 200 (because as you said, every round is different and I like to know how much drop I’m really getting).
Ultimately it comes down to preference. Anything over 250 yards I usually have time to dial in to make the shot. Anything under that I wanted the maximum accuracy with the least input because time is of the essence at that range. (And, my preference)
I always enjoy your videos; you made some excellent points in this video. I think that one can do an excellent job of zeroing their rifle, whether it is at 100, or 200. But no matter which way you do it, you have to know what you are doing. And, have a verified ballistic chart.
Tell me if this is legit or not. I got one of these too
@@mcnivenjjm NOT!
I am constantly shooting my hunting rifle throughout the year but normally before big game season will take a bunch of clay pigeons, and said the various yardages and test my real limits it’s pretty much the same thing you explained just with a smaller target
Zero at 100. If you want a 200 yard “zero” and you have a reliable scope with a good turret dial up to 200 when you leave the truck then you have the best of both worlds. Also it’s most likely not your rings but your leupold scope. A couple google searches will reveal that a wandering zero is very common on vx3 and vx5 scopes. Get a nightforce, trijicon, swfa, or a bushnell elite series.
Yep, Loopys ain't what they used to be.
I recently got a Tract. Hoping it will be more reliable. Time (and lots of shooting) will tell.
Leupolds are very good scopes for the crowd that likes to set it at 200 and forget it. You have to spend serious bucks for a scope that tracks reliably when spinning turrets. Leupolds have never tracked as good as a Nightforce. They are lighter scopes with less robust erectors. There’s no free lunch.
I also don’t see how that’s any different than running ballistic software to determine how high you need to be at 100 for a 200 yard zero. Regardless it’s your duty to verify POI at various distances before taking shots at game at those distances.
Like some others have noted, you can sight in @ 100 and dial in not for 200, but for your MPBR, lets say 2 MOA for a 300 win mag which will give you a 5" diameter from 38 to close to 300 yds. My turrets are capped so this could be a valid option for closer shots. For anything further or time permitting you can take the time to make the adjustment with the turrets. Any thoughts?
To me it depends on the distance you normally hunt..
I hunt close range ..usually 150 yards or under because of the dense wooded area is my most common range..
I feel that has a lot to do with it. Most of my shots out here are 200 to 600 yds. I personally use cartridges that line up with recommended foot pounds of energy on animals. Elk is recommended estimated1,400 foot pounds for ethical kill shots. I build and shoot rifles and cartilages at distances according to recommended energy values for each animal.
For wandering zero. Could your point of impact change with the suppressor coming on and off? Over time, the threads could wear and may require to turn the can more or tighter which may clock it differently; again over time. I'm sure you have multiple suppressors and each could have a point of impact as well as wear in differently. Thought two is barometric pressure and Coriolis. I sure most reading this are laughing at a Coriolis comment but if you zero toward the north and then shoot south; it may shift right enough to notice. Or vice versa while zeroed south and shoot north could shift impact left. If the gun shoots awesome at your normal range. Maybe consider when you find impact shift. Last Could be spin drift but less likely. Zero at 200 and then shoot to at 75 the group may sneak left and then out to 375 and be marginally right. I'm sure a more than a few ppl have had these ideas, I appreciate the videos and your doing awesome. Keep it up.
It's a scam
Hi Jim, nice vid, I zeroed my 308W at 100m, I have my scope completely setup with all the clicks at different ranges upon 450m. In theory this is the way the to go. BUT found out in hunting situations, you do not always have the time to measure and dial in the scopes. Especially on smaller game like fox. I used to have a 243W which was zeroed at 200m with hot loads, back then I knew that everything which was within 200m was a clean kill, also the smaller critters. Due to laws in my country 243W is not allowed on game bigger then Roebuck. Therefor I’m now leaning a new rifle in 6.5 Creedmore, just a bit flatter shooting than 308W so I can zero at 200m and still be sure to make all shots to even the smallest ones, without having to make any adjustments or subtentions. For longer distances I would adjust with clicks. Basically I want to use a pipe of 2” vitals instead of the 6” you use in you vid.
As an example, using a Hornady Varmint Express 95g Vmax with a .365 Ballistic Coefficient 3300 fps muzzle, and a scope sight line 1.5" above the bore line, if you zero at 219 yards (200 meters), you will be 1.7" high at 125 yards, and will have dropped to 1" low at 240 yards ( 219 meters).
If you sight in to 1" low at 219 yards (200 meters), your trajectory will stay within the 2" vital area from 10 yards to 200 meters. That 1" low at 200 meters sight in, would be a little more precise than 1" high at 109 yards / 100 meters sight in, because the trajectory tops out around 100 meters, while it is dropping pretty good by 200 meters.
Caliber is a good point. Everyone talks 36yd mpbr but that’s 556 from a 16” bbl. But then again, Barrel lengths change it a ton, too, with any caliber. Along with the *actual* velocity of the ammo, and not what’s just on the box.
Could Your issue with zero be the suppressor mount? What mount do you use? I know some can cause changes depending on which way you screw on the suppressor.
I'm with you on the windage, though I think one could easilly alleviate the problem by dialing in windage at 100, and then dialing in the vertical axis at 200 without touching windage, then confirm windage at 100 again. In fact, I'd argue that if one is using a 200 yard zero, this is the "correct" way to do it. As a precision guy, I prefer to just do 100 yards and I agree completely with everything that you said here.
You beat me to it.
All it is, is knowing your DOPE and adjusting. But most people for a hunting application don’t take the time to learn what their rifle and ammo do at different ranges
If you have a range finder with Horizontal distance correction, you do not need a perfectly flat distance to shoot 200yds. It will account for the angle of the shot and give you the location where you experience 200yds worth of drop on the bullet.
I do what the GREATEST gun scribe of all time taught me. Most rifles are 2 to 3 in. high at 100. PBR 's are usually between 275 to 300. No thinking involved. High shoulder hold at 350 and backing at 400. Works for me.
At the land I hunt on we also have steel targets at 100 yard intervals out to 1160 yards. 160 yards from 1000 to 1160 because of the lay of the land. 100 yard zero is what we use. We all shoot with target style scopes and can easily make elevation adjustments. We get an idea of bullet drop with a ballistics calculator then fine tune it with actual shooting. Make yourself a D.O.P.E. sheet and then mostly worry about the wind at longer ranges.
Sighting for 200 has 2 zeros
5.56- 50yrds/200yards
308-25/200 generally
You can zero at close distance and verify at 200.
I do this with all my rifles. I use a ballistic calculator for each cartridge to get a specific close range. The cartridge I use for my 06 I'm able to zero at 31 yards which is dead nuts at 200 yards. I live in the North West and hunt sage brush covered hills to pine covered mountains. 200 yard zero has never failed me. But, to each their own.
Depending on caliber and velocity I sight in at a close range. For instance a .223 55 grain bullet at 3200 fps is sighted in dead on at 30 yards puts zero at 180 yards. 50 yards is +.75 , 100 yards is +1.75 , 150 yards is+1, 200 yards is -1, 250 yards is -4.5. This has worked for me for years without fail. Actually I use a Marlin sight in guide I acquired years ago. It's like a slide rule with many different calibers velocities and bullet weights.
Could the surprise differences in your zero be due to temperature and altitude differences?
I was thinking the same.
I like what you touched on at the end. I have a membership to a decent club with known distances to 400 yards. Most of my hunting rifles are shot at 200 yd. When friends want to "sight in" before season I encourage them to "practice" instead. Muscle memory is an amazing thing, practice will build confidence and reinforce the basics so you can focus on the variables. I do like your milk jug idea too. I have started shooting off sticks at the range before season because most of the time that's how I shoot in the field.
It's a scam
Depends on how you use the rifle. Hunting, PRS, and ELR will have their own preferred zero distance.
It's a scam
I think it depends. If you dont use a rangefinder, dont dial in your clicks for elevation and windage...and know most of your shots are 250yds or less at multiple distance situations....I think primarily in East where most fields are not over 300 yds. It allows you to be in the kill zone for average big game given all things are equal and since we have so many fields surrounded by wooded areas....strong gusty winds are not as prevalent. I have used that system for 30 years with no problems here east but using hunting closed turret scopes that you dont adjust in field. That being said, just received my Bergera B14² Crest in 6.5 PRC....I will be zeroing at 100 yds and dialing in as needed for distances being hunted as this will be my rifle for out west using Kestrel, Hornady app, and dialable elevation turret. I think the predominant location being hunted and yardages being found is big driver.
The "randomness" of zeroing high at 100 yards is the same as that which is introduced by dialing your scope to compensate for distance. Either your calculations for bullet drop are correct, and then both work or your calculations are incorrect and then both share the same errors. If you are sloppy and arbitrarily pick 1.5'' to zero high, then you are introducing error, but otherwise this is fundamentally the same procedure as calculating the compensation for a ranged shot.
@@rogerpodactor2755 That's exactly what I wrote.
I can get low winds in summer - but that introduces the problem of hunting 40 degrees cooler than when I zeroed the rifle...
I check zero pretty often - changes in elevations etc etc.
If you're going for max point blank range, your zero will be a function of your ballistics.
Great points. I zero at 100 and generate a dope sheet with varying wind conditions then dial it in as necessary based on the range to see and wind meter. 100yds is nice as it's easy to calculate MOA.
With respect to wandering zero: try moving the bipod from the end of the hand guard tube to as close to the receiver as it will allow. The reasoning is that the gun is acting as a long beam from your shoulder to the bipod, with the mass of the gun acting at the beam center. Your body weight and weight of your left hand is also probably adding some extra bending. If you put the bipod at the middle of the gun, then there will be less span for bending and the bulk of the mass will be just above the bipod.
Really shouldn't matter if the barrel is free floated though yeah?
@@aviax7717 Well you're right, sort of. But there is still bending in the rest of the rifle and unless the scope is attached directly to the barrel itself, there will be a relative angular deflection between the barrel and the scope. Even if it's only .001 of a degree, for a 500yd shot = 500tan(.001) = .5yd = 1.5ft. The only way to minimize that - at least in my opinion - is to place the bipod directly under the rifle centre of mass.
The only way to remove the barrel/scope combination from all outside influences - even if the barrel is floated - is to mount the scope directly to it, but then of course that brings on other problems. Of course, this is just my opinion on the matter.
Check your rifle top rail screws. My Cross rail screws weren’t tightened properly from factory. I did removed, degreased and loctited them at 35 in/lbs. Mine is perfect now
I chose 100 yard zero, but only because I have no other option. No range in my area goes past 100 yards 😮💨
It's a scam
It depends on the cartridge, the sight height above bore and the intended range of use. For example: a 20" AR-15 with sights 3" above bore, sighted at 70 yds, firing 62gr factory ammo will shoot to point of aim at about 220yds and mid-range trajectory will be about 1 1/8" high at 145 yds. I zero my .308 scout at 29 yds, which puts it dead on at 200 and about 1 7/8" high at 100.
Well, I'm an old time farmer from MT, but if you are a shooter, hunter, or both, it seems almost impossible that you don't know the trajectory of your rifle with a particular bullet. If your trajectory is such that your bullet will strike 1.5 inches high at a 100 yards and then zero at 200 yards, then it's pretty dang easy to check your rifle at hunting camp with just a 100 yard range. With all of the ballistic charts, bullet information, chronograph equipment, etc. etc, any hunter that goes afield is at the least lazy, and at most, grossly negligent to not know your bullet trajectory. My gosh, most ballistic charts list all of that info, SD, BC, velocity, drop, drift, and probably who shot the bullet. MPBR is mandatory to know if you are presented with any "normal" range that is practical for your rifle, and your own personal ability. Unless you are shooting an ultra flat caliber, you're going to be guessing at that 340 yard shot. Much easier to know your MPBR, and quickly calculate how many more yards you have to allow for. Just me maybe, but it's worked personally for more than 6o years. I suppose if someone has more guns than will fit in the back of a pickup, and is used to having a computer in their back pocket, then do whatever floats your boat. I'm pretty used to my 300 h&h, haven't had a hungry winter yet.
I'm with you.
I live in Huntington since I was 5 or 6 years old. I'm 55 years old grew up in West. Virginia have been living in Montana for a long time. And my freezer is always full. And these young kids with their new fancy . S*** Baffles, Me . I think they need to learn how to throw rocks before they learn how to shoot.
How to shoot
Good info in the video. I zero everything for 100 yrd only because it's simple and easy to do. I use my sub tensions for everything out to 300 and dial for any other distance past that. As for your wandering zero put a level on your scope. A level chamber, level scope and a level shooter will produce accurate groups at any distance.
First. Boom. Always MPBR.
Yes, MPBR takes some calculation, but it's a very practical way to sight in for hunting. I think it's too often misunderstood, and definitely underused.
I shoot 2 at 100 for elevation and let it cool, then 2 at 200 for horizontal/windage. 5th round is always dead centre at 100. Worked for me for years. Dope is spot on out to 1000 with ballistics app.
Unsubbed because Kamikoto. They are a complete and utter rip made of the same J420 as a walmart special.
The milk jugs is how my dad would get me ready for deer season growing up. That’s awesome you said that! Great videos brother! I bought a Sig Cross 6.5CM for deer season this year and I’m excited! God bless!
It was a scam
Your rings aren't screwed to your action. Check that Also check temp and humidity of ammo and barrel. give the rifle time to equalize if your changing altitudes. But I'd bet your answer is the mount.
My vortex diamondback tactical 4-16 stays zeroed from hot to cold (not extreme change) no drift on the scope at 100. Vortex rings too. But all my other scopes will drift. That rifle is in the truck year round in a soft case that folds out into a mat.
Now my old redfield from the 80s on my 80s weatherby stays in the safe or goes in a hard case. Every year it’s a half inch left and half inch high every single year when sighted in for deer season.
So every scope will be different, even two nightforce one after the next off the line can have a different direction of drift, or one won’t really have hardly any, the other may drift a lot.
Great video a lot of good info.
Awesome video I run 4 different calibers of rifles depending on how I feel in what season. I love hunting deer and elk and bear I Sign in all of my rifles at a 100 yd but I run is a second 0 device Depending on what type of prism you buy you can flip down what looks like A-scope cover but it's a glass prism and you can aim flat when you flip down this prism at 300 to 500 to 800 yd depending on which prism you get And what caliber your rifle is there only about 50 to $60 And out of my knowledge there is 3 different world militaries that use them for their snipers And they work, it's a great device you're hold over you really don't have it unless you're shooting past the prism and then you know sky's the limit at that point.
Differnce on what range you set your scope to be at and what ranges you check your rig is still calibrated correctly (im avoiding hte word Zero as people have opinions on what it means 😁 ) for me I initally zero my set up at 88yrds (this is the actual top of my trajectory and also luckly matches the range i have in my garden in the UK this is a big deal) . I then slip my Turret to Zero on eleavation and windage. I bottom my eleveation turret so i can only dial a few clicks negative . I can then dial in any range i want i carry for a MPBR on a 4" target fo 180yrds for me but i will Laser range and dial any shot i can (sig BDX gives solution in the viewer so quick ) . I also like to Shoot on a range and check elevation at 300 or even 600yrds to tune the BC where I ignore wind effect if it shows and jsut look at the waterline showing drop .
you can check your calibration at any range just laser the target dial the solution and shoot dosnt matter if its 100 or 200 or 133 etc
I've just found your channel today, keep up the good work, I like your personality, your content and your environment. You got yourself a new subscriber.
hello Again... what is really needed is a combination range-finder/scope in which you can enter your rifle and cartridge params (twist-rate, barrel length, caliber, bullet weight, powder type, cartridge grains, etc.), and the scope/range-finder (with computer and rechargeable battery) will make all the adjustments for you so that you don't have to setup anything!! 🙂 -you just point your rifle at a target, hit a "calculate" button, the scope/range-finder auto calculates everything required to put crosshairs on the target at whatever distance... dream on!
Depending on the rifle and the load, I use a 200-300 yard zero. I live and hunt on the High Plains, aka the land of long shots and that means there are very few shots taken under 200 yards. Make a good choice and practice practice practice.
I've done both. Taken deer with both. If you work at it you can get good at either. I think it is personal preference. I now have a CDS VX5HD on my rem mag and it is definitely more precise especially past 300 and far more confidence inspiring.
My hunting zero has always been about 2" high at roughly 100 yards. That puts my 7mm-08 on a paper plate out to about 350 yards. Our combat zero in the military was a 37 yard zero, usually due to the lack of a longer range to zero on. That gave roughly the same performance as the hunting zero. Pretty much point of aim out to just over 300 yards. The best shot I've taken was my Remington Sendero in 7mm-08 free standing in a snowstorm shooting uphill. Dropped an elk with one shot. Ranged it the next year and it was 460 yards. I'm in Utah where we rarely get a shot under 200 yards.. 300+ is pretty common.
Great info. I also shoot 7mm-08. What’s been your favorite hunting cartridge??
I keep it simple. load development at 100 yards. (by the way it is an old 6mm model 788 in lefty bolt with a 4 power scope). once the load is verified, and i have a .3 moa at 100! I zero at 250. this puts me 3 inches high at 100. the reason for this is I live in Saskatchewan, And group hunters drive deer. I set up on a area where the deer escape too and the average shot is between 200 and 300. this is a lower elevation "bowl" surrounded by bush near a creek. they clear the bush and stop, giving a nice shot from the bipod....works every year!
I’m sure the caliber matters, but in the Marine Corps we zeroed our M4s at 30 yards on a miniature version of an able target. That zero held all the way out to 300 yards before we had to adjust the rear sight for 500+ yards.
Not quite true. You first adjusted your rear aperture to your "sight-in" setting, then shot at the short range. After sighting in you changed your rear aperture back to its normal setting. Then, and only then, were you sighted in out to 300. Changing the rear aperture to its zero setting before sighting in at 25 meters, then changing it back to its battle setting afterwards, is what allows sighting in at the short distance.
Depends on gun/cartridge & where/what yer hunting. I sight in @ 200 most times here for hunting with fast calibers& 30-30 @ 100 works for me here. You can't just say what range we have to sight in at, we do what works for us.
My 450 bushmaster was set a 1inch high at 100yrds but i never thought i would take a deer at 175 but i had been making shots at 200 my scope is a whiskey 3 and i love it
Ive also shot a buck 213yards with a marlin m9 camprifle 9mm love that gun the deer was on top of a hill and i was across from it looking up i was aimed at the top of its back that was probably an inch drop
You can still sight in your rifle to a 200 or even 300 yard zero (or preferably your actual far zero using MPBR) by firing at 100 yards.
Knowing MV and BC of the bullet, I simply make sure that my group is X inches high at 100 yards.
Firing 160 Woodleigh Weldcores out of my 6.5x55 SE at 2380 fps, I need to be 2.8" high at 100 yards in order for POA to be POI at 200 yards. It just so happens that in this case, my far zero (for that 6" vital zone) is 203 yards, so 2.8" - 3" high at 100 yards gets me close enough to a 200 yard zero that it doesn't really matter in this case.
Let's change the rifle to my 280 AI, firing 160 gr Nosler Accubonds at 2950 fps, assuming a 6" target. For MPBR, I'd sight in at 2.6" (2.5" is close enough) to get me a far zero of 250 yards. I'd be 2.1" high at 200 yards, and 3.5" low at 300 yards.
There is enough slop in the gears and variability in Muzzle Velocity, cartridge to cartridge out of the same box, that it isn't necessary for me to try and sight in my 6.5x55 *exactly* 2.8" high at 100 yards to achieve a 200 yard zero. That degree of precision is possible, but it's only useful in long range target shooting, not at common hunting distances from 0 to 300 yards.
*****************************
edited to add this
Even if a shooter's equipment can do the deed out to 300 yards doesn't mean the shooter should pull the trigger on a critter at that distance.
Three common mistakes for newbs (and some guys who've been hunting a long while but never practiced shooting a lot) are:
1. a poor cheek weld
2. poor trigger control
3. poor breathing control
Out to 200 yards, those 3 things aren't THAT big of a deal. At 300 yards, those 3 things in combination are enough to produce very inconsistent results downrange. Inconsistent enough that, IMO, it would be unethical of a hunter to take that long of a shot.
If you're in this category of shooter, and you don't have the time to get better for the upcoming deer season, zero your rifle at 100 yards. For most modern, bottle neck cartridges (6.5CM, 270 Win, 280 Rem, 7mm Rem mag, 308 Win, and 30-06), a 100 yard zero will still get your bullet into the boiler room out to around 200 yards, which is as far as you should be shooting.
So set her up at 100 yards and be done with it.
Your wandering zero could be a point of impact shift from the suppressor. Do you take it on and off very often? It could be loosening while shooting or if you take it on and off frequently and it doesn't return to the same exact position it could alter your barrel harmonics and cause a point of impact shift which could be taken as a wandering zero.
Good thought. I’ll investigate.
If you look at your ballistic chart and sight in at the 50yd equivalent of 200yd zero verify it at 8:56 the range at 200 then it’s easy to verify at 50 yards when you get to where you are going
The suppressor may be moving around on the barrel. If it's loose, it's changing barrel harmonics, which will affect point of impact.
Windage at 100 elevation at 200. I usually set the elevation high based on a ballistics calculator at 100 and just verify elevation at 200. Then to verify I just ensure my group is X height over the bullseye
Excellent video an it echoes what I do. I zero at 100. Then I dial elevation for range if going past 100 yards. I like the Christmas tree reticle I have because I use to to range when the rangerfinder scans off a leaf at 30 yards, which is not my farthest shot. My intention is not to hit somewhere in the 8 inch pie plate. I aim to hit dead center of that plate.
Great video, as always! I like a 100 yard zero and the Leupold CDS system w/zero lock.
Sweet info! Been running a 100 yard zero for several seasons now. I won’t go back. I leave my gun at 1 moa while waking in area where I’ll get that 200 yard shot. It’s much easier and I feel I am more consistent and confident at my further shots
It's a scam
0 at 200 165 gr boat-tail 30.06.
2 shells, the second one for close up kill shot if needed. I am 66 years old. Great video with all the respect in the world.
I have a 50 yard range at home and I have learned that most common none magnum center fire rifles with a dead on 50 yard zero are either dead on or very very close at 200 yards. And I verify this by shooting at our local range so I'm not just guessing.
army marksman here, my key to zeroing for hunting is depending on the load of bullet of course, but usually ill shoot at 100 yards and zero my rifle high about 2 inches or so, that way at 200 yards im usually bang on in case like you said i do have a deer pop out a little further than expected.
I used to always do 100 and now I do 200 and for me I like it but you discussed the draw backs, very well. I also do the exact same thing with water jugs. It's also great for new hunters or someone that doesn't shoot away from the bench very much. Great video.
It was a scam
I know this video is a year old but did you get settled in?
My fist thought is recheck torques then put witness marks on EVERYTHING.
Then do a box drill. If the scope doesn’t come back to starting zero during box drill, then you have a bad scope. Allowing for some barrel heat dispersing.
So by now you fixed it. What was the issue?
If you look at your ballistic chart you can find that depending on your calibre it will be somewhere between 25 and 75 yards and if you sight it’s in at that distance it will be dialed at 200 or wherever you want and don’t have to worry about wind
On hunting rifles, i choose my desired zero distance and then zero however much high at 100 that equals it. Usually between 1 and 2 inches. Then I add that zero height offset in my ballistic calculator so that if I do want to dial for longer range, I don't need to think about any extra steps.
With a target rifles I zero at 100 and dial everything.
Jim, I had the same problem with the same scope. Got to Texas for a pig hunt and the scope was shooting 5 and a 1/2 inches high at 85 yd. I had zeroed at 200 yd at the range Before leaving but had played with the Elevation at 300 yd. And my last 3 shots were higher at the same setting than at 200 yd.but I ran out of time to fix it before getting on the plane. It was like the reticle had finally broken free on the last 3 shots.
As far as yer scope concerns, have you checked the barrel nut for tightness? Sometimes a retorque is needed.
I go 35 yd zero for mpbr. No wind distortions etc to worry about messing with your “zero” as may exist at 200.
Also: if your zero shifts, look into your scopes parallax and how you may be influencing the wandering zero.
I have my cheek piece set so that X, y and z axis will always be the same.