Good stuff. 2 things, 1 leaving your bolt open between shots/groups will facilitate quicker cooling. 2 going forward I've decided to attach my ballistic card to my range finder.
Additional cooling tips when you wait between shots. Sit with your rifle pointing vertical, bolt open with the butt stock on the ground. The hot air inside the barrel with rise and exit the barrel, whilst drawing in cooler air from the action end. This is a good method on days with little to no wind to aid in cooling.
I really enjoy all of your videos and have watched them over and over. I have learned more from watching them again. Thanks for taking the time and I love your passion
Fun video. For a 150 out of a 7mag, I'd say that load is on the slow side. One thing you should probably do is go shoot at the farthest distance you're comfortable shooting a game animal at and verify your drops. Chronograph readings and bc's can sometimes be a little off. Just more fine tuning and massaging of data till its as close as it can be.
I agree. I have found that "running the yard lines" is the best approach to get your actual ballistics, holds, etc... Only issue I have had recommending that is that 80-90% of hunters have a hard enough time finding a 100yd range to shoot their rifle at. Very few folks have access to a 300/400/700 yards range
It’s very typical bullet speed for a tikka,tikka’s know to have slower barrel speeds. I’ve sighted and ran Ballistic turrets for hundreds of rifles professionally and most people think they’re rifles run a lot faster than they are. And there’s a hand off of group size and sd’s of your muzzle speeds shot to shot. Speed is not always what you want to be after most rifles perform better at near max and backed off. Speed without the under .250 inch group at 100 and single digit standard deviations is unacceptable you’ll just quick miss animals /targets haha
In addition to the waiting between shots, I also leave the chamber open to help cool quicker. It also prevents weird speed spreads of putting a cartridge in a hot chamber and letting it sit. One of the best thin profile barrels I've found is the new Bergara CURE carbon barrels. It stays sub half MOA out of a sled for 5 shots and opens to a little over 1 MOA at 10.
Excellent advice and overview on your process. It is nice to find two loads that can work well for your rifle especially with the ammo shortage and reloading supplies crisis we find ourselves in. Thanks 🙏 for sharing Cliff.
Yeah for sure. I’ve had them loosen several times. Although it shouldn’t be possible if someone is always using a torq wrench, I’ve also seen a bunch of over-torqued tikka forearm screws
Awesome video as always man! You've definitely got your methods down pat. Said it before and I'll say it again... always pick up something new after watching your vids Cliff! 👍 Thanks brother!
I tape on both sides of the card like you did in the video. Then I use the velcro brand industrial stength pads to stick it on the rifle. Loop strip on the rifle, hook strip on the range card. I've found that the adhesive in the velcro strips sticks very well to both the card and the stock. And where you have limited space the card doesn't necessarily need to be stuck completely to the rifle as if you just taped it directly to the stock. I have good luck if its not in a place where it is riding between you and the rifle when you are carrying the rifle or have is slung, where your body can rub or catch on it. I normally just stick it to the strong hand side of the buttstock, but right in front of the ejection port would probably work too for a card as small as yours.
You articulate your craft very well. You back it up with amazing groups out of a sporter weight rifle. Watching all your vids. Subscribed. Thank you. I use the same chrono. May I come out west from FL and hunt with ya?😂. I appreciate you giving the time and effort it takes to share your skill and advice. God Bless!!
Thanks man! really appreciate the support for the videos. Here in the next few years, I'll be putting some hunts together... so maybe you can come out!
to help with barrel (and suppresor) cooling i keep a lil spray bottle with a water/alcohol mix in it, and spray the barrel between shots. alcohol evaporates quickly and takes a lot of heat with it. just make sure you're using a mix that's enough water to not be flammable.
I have a new rifle coming this week. Browning x bolt 270 win. My daughter and I are starting setup and training for 2025 hunt. I will be trying this. Thanks, Cliff
Really like your videos I to had that same chrono but finally broke down and got a magneto speed. It was life changing much more consistent and accurate
When getting velocity numbers I like to shoot at least 5, preferably 10 rounds. My chronograph will calculate standard deviation and extreme spread, but if not you can put your numbers into a statistics app and calculate SD and ES. A less consistent ammo can translate to large elevation spreads in your group at longer distance. Also it’s a good idea to collect velocity data at varying ambient temperatures. You can then graph the average velocities vs temperature and predict what you average will be at the extreme temperature swings you expect to see in the field. For instance collecting velocity data on a 90 degree day and then going hunting when it’s 20 degrees you can see quite a difference in velocity.
Another tip if you want to zero at 200 yards zero at 100 first. When you move to 200 do NOT correct your windage only elevation. At 200 you can see wind deflection and if you correct for that in your zero you will be off when the wind is calm or blowing the opposite direction. This will compound at greater distance.
Your method of alternating ammo when testing for accuracy is useful. Better than shooting one ammo then cleaning the barrel and then shooting the second ammo. Also allows for change in wind speed.
Like the idea of noting zero point of each type of ammo. One thing that helps keep cool the rifle is leaving the bolt open and a chamber cooler helps, for me in south Texas it’s almost always 90-95 outside and I wait 7-8 minutes between shots. With a chamber cooler I can cut that in half.
After sighting in the rifle, i let the rifle cool down to ambient temperature then fire a three round group quickly as if the bull is still standing… and see what the groups do… in a hunting situation… I have a cold barrel moa rifle that puts the first two shots on target, but wow the hot third shot opens up the group significantly… so I know what to expect from the rifle in a hunt…
It's a proven fact that when you let your barrel cool off for fifteen minutes between shots with the bolt open that you will have given the barrel retract from the heat. It also eliminates the heat waves rising from the barrel to impair your sight picture in the scope. It's the first shot that counts when you are hunting.
I usually do my research on what brand of ammunition is readily available and use that. I use Federal which is always available in a popular caliber of 30-06.
Some say those style of chron's are inconsistent. -I have one as well. They say the labradar is one of the ones that is consistant and accurate. -idk. I plan on getting one, none the less. Be a good test to use both in line to test against one another. Good vid Cliff. I like Tikkas...
I’ve actually compared these cheap chronos to the high-end ones. In the conditions we compared them, there was almost no difference. However, I question in the bright sun if there isn’t a quality/consistency issue. 🤷
@@CliffGray I'm glad you brought this up...I need a chronograph and loathe the idea of spending $600 for a Labradar. I'll probably end up buying a similar one you;re using.
Great video I will say I’m not on board with waiting that long in between shots for the sole reason that if you have to make a fallow up shot or two and your gun doesn’t group well unless you wait 5 minutes between shots does nothing for my peace of mind when shtf even with the amount of shooting I do if my gun can’t perform to the standard I have I’ll work up a different load, try different factory ammo or sell the gun. Nothing wrong with your method I personally choose another method still good video with nuggets that people can pick up on to help out with this stuff.
Cliff great stuff as always! Off topic, is that a peach tree orchard in the background? Where in our beautiful state of Colorado is that?! Work keeps out of town during harvest season and I’ve always wanted to feed that inner child in me to pick my own basket of peaches 😅, then sell it to my neighbors as Palisade peaches 😆 (j/k). Back to topic: When I zero my babies, I always bring different loads and always take notes-weather, elevation, temperature, etc. Especially nowadays when a box of ammo cost the same as a nonresident elk tag 🙄. Every round counts! Stay safe and keep them educat-maction coming for new hunters like myself 🇺🇸
BARREL COOLING Something I do, I have that DeWalt 20 volt air compressor. I put the big volume pressure hose on it for like blowing up rubber rafts and crap, SLIP that your barrel and run cold air or just room temperature air through your barrel for 30 seconds. It'll cool it down much much faster and you probably already have the tool at home. If not a cheap set of foot pump bells do the same thing wouldn't they?
Bwhaha I actually went back and listened… it’s the sound of cycling the and shuffling the gun between shots sped way up (to tighten up the length of the video) but it does sound a little “wild” Bwhaha
The actions screws don’t do that, also it does matter what yardage you sight in at, your ballistics are almost worthless if you don’t have perfect data entry. Also the grouping especially the Berger that is not the reason bergers are to within .02 grains usually. Circular groups are better than vertical strings but it could be you starting with a clean cold bore instead of a fouled cold bore group. Also always shoot your groups at max magnification if it’s a x38 or less your groups will be smaller. As far as parallax get the crosshairs clear and target clear if you at that point slightly head move up and down while looking through your scope and the crosshairs move or slightly bend then your parallax is off and that will make your groups increase in size.
A few things you should of mention was to verify your data card on how far your shooting don't assume your going to hit 500 plus yards off your card. And another tip you should zero your choice of ammo not have it 1 inch or 2 inches high etc. Tip 3 your scope has turrets why wouldn't you put yards and moa or mils you need to dial. Not bullet drop
On center fire rifles it’s an old wives tale. I just do it because it allows me to reduce any glitching I’m developing due to recoil, after shooting several shots. It tights my groups up.
Dry firing is one of the best exercises for ultimate accuracy for when a live round is fired. On the hunting side of things Jack O'Connor dry fired alot and snipers dry fire alot as well. After a trigger pull dry firing most times the crosshairs will shift off the aiming point of the target and You continue the exercise of dry firing until the crosshairs no longer shifts off the aiming point, and that's the purpose of dry firing. I don't know if Cliff uses one or not or for sure if dry firing hurts any part of the gun or not but they make dummy cartridges cartridge specific that has a spring loaded primer area that deadens the firing pin blow like a live cartridge to ensure that no damage is being done to anything and that's what I use , but like Cliff I've never heard of anyone stating that dry firing practice damaged the rifle
It messes up the firing pin on some rimfires (22lr etc) because the firing pin will hit the edge of the chamber. On centerfire, as stated, no problems.
On tikka barrels I do. I am not an expert on this but I find those lightweight barrels just terrible after a few shots. If I don't overdo it on cool down - I can't hardly get anything figured out.
This is so timely. I was killing my self. Missed a 175 yard blacktail down hill straight on faced buck last season. Lost confidence. Went to the range. Groups from .875-2.5. I was scratching my head. Last year I was .5-1.5. I was shooting more and less waiting. I think I over heated my Tikka.
@@yo2stixDid you possibly give your rifle bore a very thorough cleaning after that last range session and before the hunt? Some rifles shoot some poor MOA groups on a clean bore until they have 3,4,5 fouling shots thru them. Also 175yds downhill, depending on angle, could have been actually 100yds horizontal. Gust of wind, buck fever, other reasons than temp of your barrel can invite a miss. It happens. Clean cold bore is a biggie though. I have an expensive rifle that needs 5 shots thru it after a thorough cleaning to get it back to 3/8 MOA.
I think it was my rest was not good. My scope has a wondering zero and it’s been cerakoted 3 times. I think that combo had me a mess. I killed a buck 3 months back at 225 and it was 4” low. Not where I aimed. So I get a nightforce. Gonna set it all back up and see where we’re at. Thanks for your thoughts.
Cool video. Why not set up your scope for 100 yard zero and spin your dial to 2.5 MOA or whatever your 200 yd dope is and carry it around like that. By sighting in 1" or 2" high at 100 yds you're adding unnecessary variables in my opinion. Look into a MagnetoSpeed chrono. Pretty cheap and so much easier to use.
Hey Clayton, you could do it that way. The reason I don’t is I’d have to remember to bring the dial back to X each time instead of just dialing it back to the zero and zero stop on my scope. Personal preference.
Just want to point out that many rifles with really clean/oily barrels will need a fouling round or two before they settle down. Clean does not equal accurate.
Hey Cliff. Do you ever have problems with your scope getting knocked out of alignment when in a scabbard on a horse? Any tips to prevent this from happening?
Good rings and a tightening protocol. Check out my $1,500 mtn rifle video. I show how I install scopes. I also torque my screws to spec before any shooting practice. Haven’t had an issue in years. I’ve dealt with many clients with issues. Almost always cheap rings or rings tightened out of balance so scope ring has less than full contact with scope tube. 👍
I thought you are suppose to messure from center of the holes for your MOA? It looked like you measure from outside edge of the holes yo the furthest point? It could be an optical illusion tho.
Yea. It’s probably splitting hairs on most hunting rifle setups. But yes, at lower magnification it’s very easy to adjust and remove the parallax. At high magnification it takes precise adjustments to remove it all.
Makes no sense to zero 2” high at 100 with an adjustable turret verses 200 yard zero. Zero at 200, you are golden from 100- 250 and you have clean dope adjustments further on. The idea of a broad zero was old school mentality with high velocity calibers, no reason to not be precise these days with the optics out there
Why does it matter? It really doesn’t matter as long as I have adjustments calculated. However, the majority of hunters don’t have access to zero at 200yds on a 200yd range. Of course you can “zero” at 200yds, at a 100yd range… that’s where the 2” at 100yds originated.
Aside from the “ most hunters don’t have access to 200yd range” argument, I like to know the exact range I am zeroed at in the event I need to thread the needle. It is also much easier to work with a wide range of ballistic calculators to figure out your dope as some require an exact zero. I get it, the two inch high will work for most guys, but I would rather know exactly where I am zeroed and be able to punch in my data to a calculator without any guessing.
@@actionjacksondan I gotcha but I don’t think we disagree. Did you watch the whole video? I always get my exact zero and use that in a ballistics calc. I mention 2” high at a 100yds as a rough estimate of where I like being. In this video I end up 1” high on one round and 1.2” high on the other.
Unless you have a rifle that shoots 1/4" groups and you're zeroing your rifle indoors, I'd really try not to zero at 200 yds. Think about how many variables you're introducing into your setup by doing that.
A lot of poor information here. You should not have to wait 5 minutes between shots. You may have a mechanical issue going on with your rifle if it's stringing shots after the first 2, as you stated. I'd look into that, maybe glass bed your rifle. You should also keep the bolt open, if you are actually letting the barrel cool. You also don't need a torque wrench. Unless you have never worked on a rifle or anything mechanical before. As to your statement about your rifle shooting poorly after a fall: even the roughest fall should not affect POI, unless you actually damaged the scope in the fall. A good set of mounts and rings will keep everything very secure. Unless you did not "torque" the mounts and ring screws properly, or you are just using a cheesy set of mounts and rings .Then you could have issues. You probably did not tighten the mount and ring screws enough and did not loctite stuff. You always want to use blue loctite on the mount screws, not the ring screws. You may be a new shooter without a lot of trigger time under your belt, the reason you think you need to dry fire so much? That is also not necessary, if you actually get out there and shoot. A lot of things you are doing are counter productive.
1. the barrel heat issue on these guns is common. 2. 5 minutes is my rule of thumb, don't have any issues when I do that. Probably overkill, might not be. Works just fine under cold/warm/hot conditions, sun/cloudy, bolt open, bolt closed, etc... I'd rather be patient then jump the gun and then have to go through the whole process again for confirmation. 3. I can't tell you how many hunters' rifles I have found that have under torqued screws, or over torqued (particularly forearms). It does matter. 4. The easiest way for me to calm down a hunter in the field and make the next shot more accurate is to have them dry fire in between shots - personal preference but in my experience it is low hanging fruit to take out shooter's inaccuracy out of the equation when grouping rounds. The fall this rifle took - the scope turrets were smashed to the point of not even being able to be turned - its was on a pack with a 65lb ram cape, went down a scree chute a couple hundred feet. You are correct - good mounting and rings with a good optic should be good in falls other than the most drastic. this was the most drastic
From my short 60+ years of hunting and collecting and reloading and coming from a grandfather who was a marksman in the military dry-firing knowmatter how long you have been shooting helps calm you down and helps to focus! Most of the greatest snipers all do a lot of dry firing for a reason!
The most fundamental principle of rifle shooting is ignored by using these bipods which do not allow the free floating rearward recoil of the rifle to take place unrestricted..just another example of blindly following the latest popular tend without thinking about repercussions..
Really like your videos I to had that same chrono but finally broke down and got a magneto speed. It was life changing much more consistent and accurate
🍻 The good old days of working up a load seem to have become a memory for many of us. There doesn't seem to be much if any cost savings either.
Good stuff. 2 things,
1 leaving your bolt open between shots/groups will facilitate quicker cooling.
2 going forward I've decided to attach my ballistic card to my range finder.
Great tips. thanks
Additional cooling tips when you wait between shots. Sit with your rifle pointing vertical, bolt open with the butt stock on the ground. The hot air inside the barrel with rise and exit the barrel, whilst drawing in cooler air from the action end. This is a good method on days with little to no wind to aid in cooling.
Also helps prevent your SD and ES from getting excessively wide if someone's leaving a live round in the hot chamber.
@@RJBiteanerd >?
FFound below ... standard deviation and extreme spread
Great interview on JRE!
Your RUclips channel will absolutely blow up once people are introduced to your experience and personality.
All the best.
Thanks!
I really enjoy all of your videos and have watched them over and over. I have learned more from watching them again. Thanks for taking the time and I love your passion
Fun video. For a 150 out of a 7mag, I'd say that load is on the slow side. One thing you should probably do is go shoot at the farthest distance you're comfortable shooting a game animal at and verify your drops. Chronograph readings and bc's can sometimes be a little off. Just more fine tuning and massaging of data till its as close as it can be.
I agree.
I have found that "running the yard lines" is the best approach to get your actual ballistics, holds, etc... Only issue I have had recommending that is that 80-90% of hunters have a hard enough time finding a 100yd range to shoot their rifle at. Very few folks have access to a 300/400/700 yards range
I agree that's basically 30/06 velocity
It’s very typical bullet speed for a tikka,tikka’s know to have slower barrel speeds. I’ve sighted and ran Ballistic turrets for hundreds of rifles professionally and most people think they’re rifles run a lot faster than they are. And there’s a hand off of group size and sd’s of your muzzle speeds shot to shot. Speed is not always what you want to be after most rifles perform better at near max and backed off. Speed without the under .250 inch group at 100 and single digit standard deviations is unacceptable you’ll just quick miss animals /targets haha
I CANT BELIEVE YOU MADE IT ON JRE I AM SO HYPED RIGHT NOW
thanks Danny!
Good, practical, no-nonsense stuff!
Thanks Cliff!
thanks man!
I agree with the barrel cooling- I think the grass is going to grow very well there.
In addition to the waiting between shots, I also leave the chamber open to help cool quicker. It also prevents weird speed spreads of putting a cartridge in a hot chamber and letting it sit.
One of the best thin profile barrels I've found is the new Bergara CURE carbon barrels. It stays sub half MOA out of a sled for 5 shots and opens to a little over 1 MOA at 10.
Hey man, you were so interesting on JRE. The shot about MetaVerse had me knee slapping. You made Joe laugh. One of my favorite episodes.
Thank you!
Using your torque wrench to remove screws may be more harmful than leaving them at your torque spec. They are often not designed to work that way.
Solid lesson brother!!!!💪🇺🇸💯🦅!!! Good luck this season yall!!!!
Excellent method Cliff. I've always found it confusing and this definitely helps.
Nate
Great to hear. Thanks Nate 👍
Excellent advice and overview on your process. It is nice to find two loads that can work well for your rifle especially with the ammo shortage and reloading supplies crisis we find ourselves in. Thanks 🙏 for sharing Cliff.
thanks for watching!
Awesome seeing your interview on JRE, Cliff! Always useful information coming out of this channel 😁
thank you!
Love the 7mm-08.
Twice, I have found my action bolts had come loose. That's a good tip.
Yeah for sure. I’ve had them loosen several times. Although it shouldn’t be possible if someone is always using a torq wrench, I’ve also seen a bunch of over-torqued tikka forearm screws
@@CliffGray It is because the Tikka manual recommends 65 in pounds which is way too much for the flimsy plastic stocks.
Really great vid and I never thought of group 2 diff grain bullets like you did. Nice! Great ending to the vid too.
Thanks!
Awesome video as always man! You've definitely got your methods down pat. Said it before and I'll say it again... always pick up something new after watching your vids Cliff! 👍 Thanks brother!
thanks!
@@CliffGray 👍
I tape on both sides of the card like you did in the video. Then I use the velcro brand industrial stength pads to stick it on the rifle. Loop strip on the rifle, hook strip on the range card. I've found that the adhesive in the velcro strips sticks very well to both the card and the stock. And where you have limited space the card doesn't necessarily need to be stuck completely to the rifle as if you just taped it directly to the stock. I have good luck if its not in a place where it is riding between you and the rifle when you are carrying the rifle or have is slung, where your body can rub or catch on it. I normally just stick it to the strong hand side of the buttstock, but right in front of the ejection port would probably work too for a card as small as yours.
Love it. Great tip. Thanks for sharing
You articulate your craft very well. You back it up with amazing groups out of a sporter weight rifle. Watching all your vids. Subscribed. Thank you. I use the same chrono.
May I come out west from FL and hunt with ya?😂.
I appreciate you giving the time and effort it takes to share your skill and advice. God Bless!!
Thanks man! really appreciate the support for the videos. Here in the next few years, I'll be putting some hunts together... so maybe you can come out!
to help with barrel (and suppresor) cooling i keep a lil spray bottle with a water/alcohol mix in it, and spray the barrel between shots. alcohol evaporates quickly and takes a lot of heat with it. just make sure you're using a mix that's enough water to not be flammable.
Thanks Matt 👍
I have a new rifle coming this week. Browning x bolt 270 win. My daughter and I are starting setup and training for 2025 hunt.
I will be trying this.
Thanks, Cliff
Good deal 👍
Awesome, practical tips!
Get yourself a battery powered mattress pump adapted to a hose and cool that barrel quicker between shots.
great tip. thanks
Really like your videos I to had that same chrono but finally broke down and got a magneto speed. It was life changing much more consistent and accurate
When getting velocity numbers I like to shoot at least 5, preferably 10 rounds. My chronograph will calculate standard deviation and extreme spread, but if not you can put your numbers into a statistics app and calculate SD and ES. A less consistent ammo can translate to large elevation spreads in your group at longer distance. Also it’s a good idea to collect velocity data at varying ambient temperatures. You can then graph the average velocities vs temperature and predict what you average will be at the extreme temperature swings you expect to see in the field. For instance collecting velocity data on a 90 degree day and then going hunting when it’s 20 degrees you can see quite a difference in velocity.
Thanks Drew, great tip
Another tip if you want to zero at 200 yards zero at 100 first. When you move to 200 do NOT correct your windage only elevation. At 200 you can see wind deflection and if you correct for that in your zero you will be off when the wind is calm or blowing the opposite direction. This will compound at greater distance.
Another great tip! Thanks drew
Yes, I usually shoot 2 shots and look at my target and let my barrel cool as I do my clicks for my 2nd grouping.
Why the dry fire process?
Your method of alternating ammo when testing for accuracy is useful. Better than shooting one ammo then cleaning the barrel and then shooting the second ammo. Also allows for change in wind speed.
👍
Like the idea of noting zero point of each type of ammo.
One thing that helps keep cool the rifle is leaving the bolt open and a chamber cooler helps, for me in south Texas it’s almost always 90-95 outside and I wait 7-8 minutes between shots. With a chamber cooler I can cut that in half.
great tip. thanks
After sighting in the rifle, i let the rifle cool down to ambient temperature then fire a three round group quickly as if the bull is still standing… and see what the groups do… in a hunting situation… I have a cold barrel moa rifle that puts the first two shots on target, but wow the hot third shot opens up the group significantly… so I know what to expect from the rifle in a hunt…
Great advice!
Great info, Thanks Cliff !
It's a proven fact that when you let your barrel cool off for fifteen minutes between shots with the bolt open that you will have given the barrel retract from the heat. It also eliminates the heat waves rising from the barrel to impair your sight picture in the scope.
It's the first shot that counts when you are hunting.
I usually do my research on what brand of ammunition is readily available and use that. I use Federal which is always available in a popular caliber of 30-06.
Some say those style of chron's are inconsistent. -I have one as well. They say the labradar is one of the ones that is consistant and accurate. -idk. I plan on getting one, none the less. Be a good test to use both in line to test against one another.
Good vid Cliff. I like Tikkas...
I’ve actually compared these cheap chronos to the high-end ones. In the conditions we compared them, there was almost no difference. However, I question in the bright sun if there isn’t a quality/consistency issue. 🤷
@@CliffGray Wow, nice. Well, I won't trip as much with the one have then...
@@CliffGray I'm glad you brought this up...I need a chronograph and loathe the idea of spending $600 for a Labradar. I'll probably end up buying a similar one you;re using.
I appreciate the content, sir.
Thanks Billy!
Grind out the two barrel buttons in the tikka to fully free float the barrel. It will make it much more consistent will a hot barrel.
thanks cody. You are referring to the contact points in the stock barrel, correct?
Elaborate please,I'm a slow learner
I’ve had great grouping with the Remington core lokt tipped
Holy shit dude, your JRE episode just dropped!
woowhoooo!!! thanks
Great video I will say I’m not on board with waiting that long in between shots for the sole reason that if you have to make a fallow up shot or two and your gun doesn’t group well unless you wait 5 minutes between shots does nothing for my peace of mind when shtf even with the amount of shooting I do if my gun can’t perform to the standard I have I’ll work up a different load, try different factory ammo or sell the gun. Nothing wrong with your method I personally choose another method still good video with nuggets that people can pick up on to help out with this stuff.
I have the same chrono and I have the same issues. The variability between each round is huge
Cliff great stuff as always! Off topic, is that a peach tree orchard in the background? Where in our beautiful state of Colorado is that?! Work keeps out of town during harvest season and I’ve always wanted to feed that inner child in me to pick my own basket of peaches 😅, then sell it to my neighbors as Palisade peaches 😆 (j/k).
Back to topic: When I zero my babies, I always bring different loads and always take notes-weather, elevation, temperature, etc. Especially nowadays when a box of ammo cost the same as a nonresident elk tag 🙄. Every round counts!
Stay safe and keep them educat-maction coming for new hunters like myself 🇺🇸
Thanks man! This video was actually done out in Eastern Oregon. I do like me a palisade peach though! 👍
BARREL COOLING Something I do, I have that DeWalt 20 volt air compressor. I put the big volume pressure hose on it for like blowing up rubber rafts and crap, SLIP that your barrel and run cold air or just room temperature air through your barrel for 30 seconds. It'll cool it down much much faster and you probably already have the tool at home. If not a cheap set of foot pump bells do the same thing wouldn't they?
I like it! good tip
At the 5:55 second mark of the video, turn the volume way up. Wearing headphones will help you hear it. Tell me what you all think.
Bwhaha I actually went back and listened… it’s the sound of cycling the and shuffling the gun between shots sped way up (to tighten up the length of the video) but it does sound a little “wild” Bwhaha
@CliffGray alright, makes sense man. Thanks, the video is great. You're a huge help.
The actions screws don’t do that, also it does matter what yardage you sight in at, your ballistics are almost worthless if you don’t have perfect data entry. Also the grouping especially the Berger that is not the reason bergers are to within .02 grains usually. Circular groups are better than vertical strings but it could be you starting with a clean cold bore instead of a fouled cold bore group. Also always shoot your groups at max magnification if it’s a x38 or less your groups will be smaller. As far as parallax get the crosshairs clear and target clear if you at that point slightly head move up and down while looking through your scope and the crosshairs move or slightly bend then your parallax is off and that will make your groups increase in size.
Cliff love your vids. If not at a range, how important is target elevation?
weigh each round before you fire them ,,, organize them by weight in the box ,,, easy way to tighten up groups
great tip! love it. thanks
@@CliffGray also a good way to verify factory quality control on ammunition or hand loads
Such a simple thing to do and I never thought about it. Great suggestion.
A Leupold CDS will eliminate the need for a ballistics chart
A few things you should of mention was to verify your data card on how far your shooting don't assume your going to hit 500 plus yards off your card. And another tip you should zero your choice of ammo not have it 1 inch or 2 inches high etc. Tip 3 your scope has turrets why wouldn't you put yards and moa or mils you need to dial. Not bullet drop
You shouldn't use your torque wrench to loosen your screws I was taught. It could make your torque wrench out of spec. 🤷
Why the dry fire? just wondering.. .. I have always been told it messes the firing pin up....or is that an ole wives tale?
On center fire rifles it’s an old wives tale. I just do it because it allows me to reduce any glitching I’m developing due to recoil, after shooting several shots. It tights my groups up.
Dry firing is one of the best exercises for ultimate accuracy for when a live round is fired.
On the hunting side of things Jack O'Connor dry fired alot and snipers dry fire alot as well.
After a trigger pull dry firing most times the crosshairs will shift off the aiming point of the target and You continue the exercise of dry firing until the crosshairs no longer shifts off the aiming point, and that's the purpose of dry firing.
I don't know if Cliff uses one or not or for sure if dry firing hurts any part of the gun or not but they make dummy cartridges cartridge specific that has a spring loaded primer area that deadens the firing pin blow like a live cartridge to ensure that no damage is being done to anything and that's what I use , but like Cliff I've never heard of anyone stating that dry firing practice damaged the rifle
It messes up the firing pin on some rimfires (22lr etc) because the firing pin will hit the edge of the chamber. On centerfire, as stated, no problems.
Carlos Hathcock knew that dry firing is critical for precise trigger control.
Great video, I learned a lot. As a hand loader myself, question on your load development, do you also wait 5 minutes between each shot?
On tikka barrels I do. I am not an expert on this but I find those lightweight barrels just terrible after a few shots.
If I don't overdo it on cool down - I can't hardly get anything figured out.
This is so timely. I was killing my self. Missed a 175 yard blacktail down hill straight on faced buck last season. Lost confidence. Went to the range. Groups from .875-2.5. I was scratching my head. Last year I was .5-1.5. I was shooting more and less waiting. I think I over heated my Tikka.
@@yo2stix yeah, go try it with a long cool down period. I bet that was the issue! good luck
@@yo2stixDid you possibly give your rifle bore a very thorough cleaning after that last range session and before the hunt? Some rifles shoot some poor MOA groups on a clean bore until they have 3,4,5 fouling shots thru them. Also 175yds downhill, depending on angle, could have been actually 100yds horizontal. Gust of wind, buck fever, other reasons than temp of your barrel can invite a miss. It happens. Clean cold bore is a biggie though. I have an expensive rifle that needs 5 shots thru it after a thorough cleaning to get it back to 3/8 MOA.
I think it was my rest was not good. My scope has a wondering zero and it’s been cerakoted 3 times. I think that combo had me a mess. I killed a buck 3 months back at 225 and it was 4” low. Not where I aimed. So I get a nightforce. Gonna set it all back up and see where we’re at.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Do you have any outfitters you recommend for elk hunts? Looking for guided to get into it!
Cool video. Why not set up your scope for 100 yard zero and spin your dial to 2.5 MOA or whatever your 200 yd dope is and carry it around like that. By sighting in 1" or 2" high at 100 yds you're adding unnecessary variables in my opinion. Look into a MagnetoSpeed chrono. Pretty cheap and so much easier to use.
Hey Clayton, you could do it that way. The reason I don’t is I’d have to remember to bring the dial back to X each time instead of just dialing it back to the zero and zero stop on my scope. Personal preference.
I would think if you leave your bolt open between shots the rifle will cool faster and more evenly?
Correct. it would
What balistic card print out are you using. I usually just Write mine down. But I'm definitely interested in a nice clean printout.
I use the Ballistics Iphone app. I screen capture the output and print
Awesome seeing ya on JOE ROGAN!!!
thanks! it was a blast
That much variability in velocity is more common than not with factory ammo in my experience. I don’t think it was your chrono.
Just want to point out that many rifles with really clean/oily barrels will need a fouling round or two before they settle down. Clean does not equal accurate.
Why do you do all the dry firing, waiting and then rush the shot?? You should breathe and take time on the shot because that's what counts.
I think he KNOWS how to shoot !!!!
Awesome video. Would you consider the core lokt tipped a viable elk round?
Yes, I’ve seen a bunch of bulls killed with them. In the end, shot placement is king.
@@CliffGray thank you sir. I’m going on my first elk hunt this year and I have been wanting to get opinions on them.
Good luck man!
Hey Cliff. Do you ever have problems with your scope getting knocked out of alignment when in a scabbard on a horse? Any tips to prevent this from happening?
Good rings and a tightening protocol. Check out my $1,500 mtn rifle video. I show how I install scopes.
I also torque my screws to spec before any shooting practice.
Haven’t had an issue in years.
I’ve dealt with many clients with issues. Almost always cheap rings or rings tightened out of balance so scope ring has less than full contact with scope tube. 👍
LIGHT Sanding that stupid gloss off the inside of your rings helps a LOT.
I thought you are suppose to messure from center of the holes for your MOA? It looked like you measure from outside edge of the holes yo the furthest point? It could be an optical illusion tho.
What bipod do you have on that rifle? I've never seen one with that wide of a base before.
That is a Hatch bipod
Use a luggage tag for your card.
That’s a great tip. Thanks
Droop a bath towel over your chronograph and it will stop the light issues. Make sure you use a new battery
thanks. appreciate the trip. ill try it
Great information and tips as usual 👍🏻👊🏻
Thanks! 👍👍👍
What’s the additional dial you have on the scope beside the parallax dial?
Does lower magnification reduce parallax errors?
Yea. It’s probably splitting hairs on most hunting rifle setups. But yes, at lower magnification it’s very easy to adjust and remove the parallax. At high magnification it takes precise adjustments to remove it all.
Treat any zero as a placeholder, no problems ever.
Makes no sense to zero 2” high at 100 with an adjustable turret verses 200 yard zero. Zero at 200, you are golden from 100- 250 and you have clean dope adjustments further on. The idea of a broad zero was old school mentality with high velocity calibers, no reason to not be precise these days with the optics out there
Why does it matter? It really doesn’t matter as long as I have adjustments calculated. However, the majority of hunters don’t have access to zero at 200yds on a 200yd range. Of course you can “zero” at 200yds, at a 100yd range… that’s where the 2” at 100yds originated.
Aside from the “ most hunters don’t have access to 200yd range” argument, I like to know the exact range I am zeroed at in the event I need to thread the needle. It is also much easier to work with a wide range of ballistic calculators to figure out your dope as some require an exact zero. I get it, the two inch high will work for most guys, but I would rather know exactly where I am zeroed and be able to punch in my data to a calculator without any guessing.
@@actionjacksondan I gotcha but I don’t think we disagree. Did you watch the whole video? I always get my exact zero and use that in a ballistics calc. I mention 2” high at a 100yds as a rough estimate of where I like being. In this video I end up 1” high on one round and 1.2” high on the other.
Unless you have a rifle that shoots 1/4" groups and you're zeroing your rifle indoors, I'd really try not to zero at 200 yds. Think about how many variables you're introducing into your setup by doing that.
I 0 all my turret scoped riffles at 200. Just makes more sense to me.
A lot of poor information here. You should not have to wait 5 minutes between shots. You may have a mechanical issue going on with your rifle if it's stringing shots after the first 2, as you stated. I'd look into that, maybe glass bed your rifle. You should also keep the bolt open, if you are actually letting the barrel cool. You also don't need a torque wrench. Unless you have never worked on a rifle or anything mechanical before. As to your statement about your rifle shooting poorly after a fall: even the roughest fall should not affect POI, unless you actually damaged the scope in the fall. A good set of mounts and rings will keep everything very secure. Unless you did not "torque" the mounts and ring screws properly, or you are just using a cheesy set of mounts and rings .Then you could have issues. You probably did not tighten the mount and ring screws enough and did not loctite stuff. You always want to use blue loctite on the mount screws, not the ring screws. You may be a new shooter without a lot of trigger time under your belt, the reason you think you need to dry fire so much? That is also not necessary, if you actually get out there and shoot. A lot of things you are doing are counter productive.
1. the barrel heat issue on these guns is common.
2. 5 minutes is my rule of thumb, don't have any issues when I do that. Probably overkill, might not be. Works just fine under cold/warm/hot conditions, sun/cloudy, bolt open, bolt closed, etc... I'd rather be patient then jump the gun and then have to go through the whole process again for confirmation.
3. I can't tell you how many hunters' rifles I have found that have under torqued screws, or over torqued (particularly forearms). It does matter.
4. The easiest way for me to calm down a hunter in the field and make the next shot more accurate is to have them dry fire in between shots - personal preference but in my experience it is low hanging fruit to take out shooter's inaccuracy out of the equation when grouping rounds.
The fall this rifle took - the scope turrets were smashed to the point of not even being able to be turned - its was on a pack with a 65lb ram cape, went down a scree chute a couple hundred feet. You are correct - good mounting and rings with a good optic should be good in falls other than the most drastic. this was the most drastic
From my short 60+ years of hunting and collecting and reloading and coming from a grandfather who was a marksman in the military dry-firing knowmatter how long you have been shooting helps calm you down and helps to focus! Most of the greatest snipers all do a lot of dry firing for a reason!
Remington ammo is always very slow.
The most fundamental principle of rifle shooting is ignored by using these bipods which do not allow the free floating rearward recoil of the rifle to take place unrestricted..just another example of blindly following the latest popular tend without thinking about repercussions..
Really like your videos I to had that same chrono but finally broke down and got a magneto speed. It was life changing much more consistent and accurate