All great solutions, Cliff! The rest I prefer, is shooting off a hunting partner’s shoulder. The only issue I sometimes encounter is the “rest” whining and complaining about muzzle blast. One way to get around this, is to use a very, very loud muzzle-break initially to desensitize the “rest”. After break-in, i.e., permanent hearing loss, this is a quick set up that gets everyone involved in the shot!
Cliff .....thanks a ton for the amount of quality info in one spot. Granted .....it took me a ton of hours to figure alot of this stuff out but I'm binge watching and sending your videos to everyone I know and still learning a ton.....thank you so much man!
Great video discussing options for rests. As a Hunter's Safety Instructor we teach students "the most important thing to an accurate shot is a good rest". As an aside, you don't need a special adapter for trekking poles, back in the '80's/90's when I was a Marine Reservist in Wisconsin we were taught to use our ski poles as a rest, they work best for kneeling but with modern trekking poles you can adjust down to sitting. You don't need an adapter, just loop the wrist straps over the opposite handle, cross the poles, kick the legs out a little in front, and lean into them to take up slack.
You are a wealth of knowledge. Thanks for sharing. One of my favorite sayings. Learn it, live it, share it. If you want to be an expert at something. Teach it!!!
Thanks for the comparison, I like shooting off a pack and my Spartan Bipods preloaded a little. I always prone out when possible. Also that the first thing I do in a hunting spot is practice aiming at different areas thinking what if something came out here. I would love to do a horseback elk hunt with you. Keep up the videos love them. I also would love to see a demonstration how to pack a crossbow on a horse and how to carry an Xbow daily on a horseback hunt?
I did very similar experiments and went with the Primos trigger stick tripod. In my case I was more likely to shoot standing and liked its speed in setting up and ability to adjust to inclines/irregular ground.
With the exception of the Trigger Sticks and the tripod clamp set up, I use or have used all that you demonstrated. I, just last year, acquired the adaptor for my trekking poles. I can tell you that once you learn to pre-load them with the rifle resting on them (just like a bipod) and practice with them every shooting session, they are amazingly accurate, rest rifle combination. Also, as you stated, carrying one less piece of equipment. One reason I went to range finding binocs.
100% agree with you on the hog saddle I think a tripod is the best system but needs a good pan head, not only helps accuracy by making quick easy adjustments but adds versatility since you get arca mounts to qd binos or spotting scopes when sitting(or standing) out glassing
When using the Quick sticks on the trekking poles you should look into purchasing their quick clip adapter. It’s a pic rail mount, it locks into the quick sticks and you can set it at 45 degrees for shooting prone. Game changer!!
I saw it on there website. I’ll check it out. I really like the simplicity of the basic adapter they have. Just need to try the rail attachment to see if it takes away from the simplicity or not…. Good to hear you like it. Thanks
Spartan precision bipod and tripod combo. I run the bipod in my pocket and tripod in my pack unless I'm sitting/glassing. Rifle, spotter, and bino all use the same mount that goes on in under a second. Plus the tripod pulls triple duty as a monopod, tall bipod, and trekking poles.
Sounds like something I should do for my new rifle. Can you elaborate? You carry both? How’s the weight? What is the attachment on the rifle? Will look it up.
I have always brought a "heat-a-seat" sitting pad, it's on the outside of the pack always, provides a seat but can be instantly deployed for shooting prone, or to stabilize the rifle on a tree branch or rock or stump. It's near weightless and of course provides comfort while glassing. Sometimes I put it outside the frame but under the pack and doesn't even need to be tied on if your pack has weight.
Shooting prone off the primos trigger sticks is very solid. Spread the legs as far as they go, lie prone and grip one of legs making a fist. Lay your rifle in the crux between your fist and the leg instead of the yoke. I have shot steal at 560 yards using this rest and harvested a mule deer at 340 yards using this technique. Downside is that its a lot to carry in the mountains.
Couple questions/comments. 1. How were you adjusting for bullet drop/where is the zero relative to the range you shot. The bipod had the smallest 3 shot Group but was all high. Is this due to the zero being at say 200 or 250yard vs target at 150/160yard? Or did you dial in to the exact range? Accuracy vs precision. Mean distance to centre is more important than group size if you were dialing to the exact range. 2. Set up time. If you were walking and spotted an animal within range and had 30sec to identify target, get set up and shoot what would you do? 3. Every shot you fired was a kill shot at reasonable range. So I think it come down to speed of set up and use of what you carry for possible expected shot angle or position. Personally I'm backpack or back pack + trekking poles for prone uphill or backpack with trekking poles in side pocket shooting through the cradle of the handle straps for sitting. Dump pack, toss rifle over, shoot. They are all accurate enough but speed can be the determining factor between success and failure. 4. Small sample size. For the effort you put in to make the video, I would have loved to see you shoot 2x 3 shot groups at the same target. Would tell a much better story to accuracy and precision. Also setting a timer from standing with pack on to firing
I've been using the Caldwell shooting sticks from a sitting position, elbows on the knees. They are light, quick to get set up, and pretty versatile on different terrain and angles. Haven't seen those mentioned so I thought I would chime in. I am going to try the trekking pole adapter now though. Good stuff, folks need to sight in on the bench, then practice real world to see what works for their style of hunting. Thanks!
Another great video @Cliff. I see you are shooting a rifle with a synthetic stock and the rigid type rests are actually very good because there is usually 0.030” to 0.050” of free float between the forearm and the barrel. That is a lesson for those who shoot a rifle with a wood stock, you need at least 0.030” to 0.050” of free float clearance between the barrel and the forearm. I am speaking from 50 years of experience. I personally don’t like to use rigid type bipods or other rests because all of my rifle are wood stocks and all have at least 0.030” of clearance. I have shot off the top of the frame of my pack (Mystery Ranch Metcalf) and I have shot off trekking poles, however, I rest my rifle on those type rests where the rest is just forward of the magazine cover. The further back you get your rest the more the weight of the forward end of the rifle will help to steady the rifle. Use the weight of your rifle to your advantage. Also, when I shoot of such a rest I place my off hand on top of the objective lens of my scope this further helps to steady your rifle. When I practice shooting I spend a lot of time shooting in the offhand position (standing) because it is the hardest to master. I can shoot just fine prime, sitting and kneeling and do take a few shots in those positions. But if you can master the offhand (standing) position you will be a true marksman. I practice out to 600 yards standing. You never know what you can do until you try it and when you need to take that shot you ought to be sure of your skill in that position. I have killed many head of game from the offhand or offhand with the side of a tree or something else as a semi-rest. I also have a stand up bench I use to work up loads, a stand up bench puts your body I the best position the absorb heavy recoiling magnums and is just more natural to use. I don’t own a bipod for a rifle, I sold them all, and my tripod is for my spotting scope and binoculars, I just don’t like a rigid rest. Just speaking from experience.
For your shooting test: Obviously being prone with a bipod, a rear rest on flat terrain is your ideal. But that's perfect conditions. What do you find you most often actually use? So many times there's a lot of ground vegetation, where seated is the best you can do but often standing is all you can do. Right now I have a permanent 6"-9" bipod and a bipod style shooting stick that can extend to 6 ft. I'm trying to find the almost "do it all" setup so I don't need to carry extra crap. The shooting stick takes a good 30 seconds to deploy and at the moment I can't even get it off my pack without taking it off first. Makes opportunity shots basically evaporate.
The trigger stix also come in a shorter version. It’s not for standing - but kneeling or sitting. I really like it better for the lower positions. You just have to make a decision that you won’t need a standing shot. I have both sizes. They are really sturdy. The new ones are slotted so you can switch with a glass attachment.
I also struggle shooting from a pack, so I quit trying. I like the atlas bipod best. I can shoot with any bipod which allows me to level the gun. With cheaper bipod, I just lean a little to “load” the bipod. It takes all of the play out of the joints and helps keep the gun tight in the shoulder. I set up, then move my body forward an inch or so while keeping the bipod legs planted.
Its hard to beat the tripod set up and to combat the clacking I just hit Home Depot and grab the Velcro Wraps ($5-ish) and they wrap and cling back on themselves and being just strips they come in handy for everything-like use them wrapped it on a set of poles around both, one in the center of the other wrap to keep the whole thing strong and there ya go. Iused a pack and poles a lot growing up in Alaska. Just my 2 cents worth. Really nice vid info on different equipment and the biggest thing is train with all your gear. Take care and be safe my friend.
Hey mate not sure if you have heard of it but 1 rest I really like and you might too, is called a tree hook. It’s just a big pot plant hook screwed into a tree with some padding on the bottom. I just bent the hook out a bit so it looks like a U shape so there is room for a thicker stock.
I just switched all my rifles to chassis systems with full length Arca rails. I have Area 419 Arca adapters on my bipods and I can clamp directly into my tripod.
Using my arm wrapped through the sling and going overhand on the scope is absolutely key for me shooting off the pack or sticks. Still trying to move away from the bipod and work in other options. So far I'm pretty lethal at 500 on mixed rests but not where I want to be for october. I missed out on an elk last year because I hadn't practiced and couldn't get set up after realizing I couldn't get a tree to work.
@@CliffGray I forgot that the caveat is the best slings for this aren’t very comfortable in light clothing for carry, ha. I’m new to shooting long so you know more than me, just something that’s been helping me.
Look at Cliff is SO relaxed and takes his time is aiming as well as after the shot…something tells me he can group those shots on a pile of rocks or a stand up unaided aim.
Definitely a rather nice side by side comparison of the variety of rests. I have an Eberlestock F1 Mainframe pack with the F7 Kite bag on it. I should be able to shoot off it in the vertical position well, but I need practice. I have my Savage M110 Long Range Hunter in 300 WSM set up to use the Swagger QD42 and I do like it in the certain situations. I probably will take it on my mule deer 🦌 hunt in Wyoming. But with my .270 Win that has a wood stock I plan on using for pronghorn during the same hunting trip. I might pick up the hog saddle setup or trigger sticks. Once I get a legit set of trekking poles I definitely want those quick sticks connectors, although they are super squeaky 🐭. Thanks 🙏 for sharing this Cliff.
@@CliffGray Excellent I am sure it is great to hear the “sound of silence 🤫”. I probably would have done the same thing. I like having options and versatility in my setups.
hey man, love your videos… would you be able to do a video on what to look for in a knife? hunting, bushcraft and survival or maybe an allrounder? it’s hard to find good unbiased info in this area. The markets flooded and it’s a pain to carry around a bunch of different knives if 1 or 2 can do it. (primarily for a multi-day back pack hunt) thanx man! 🙏
If you are going to take the time to review these products, you should throw affiliate links in the description. Costs us nothing, great way for us to support your channel, and you are making it anyway. Cheers!
Great comparison. To be clear, the accuracy you got with any of these rests is easily good enough to kill any big game animal in the US out to 3-400 yards - assuming 9" vitals; the vast majority of game is taken at ranges less than 250. However, the best (in my experience) field shooting rest is a simple tripod made from three 36-inch lengths of 1/2-inch wooden dowel, tied together by several turns of a leather thong wound round the sticks and tied off. Simply pulling the sticks apart creates a surprisingly stable tripod. The leather thong can be slid up and down the sticks to adjust for shooting height and so this simple rest can be used prone, sitting or kneeling. It's very inexpensive, very light, very quick and easy to set up in and there are no moving parts to fail in the field. It also meets the KISS principle - keep it simple stupid. With a bit of practice it's superb.
This was great. I've messed around with these and I think I'm settled on the quick sticks , bipod + pack as support. How about some free hand shooting with a sling, standing or off the knee? I realize that's not ideal. But That's basically what I had to this past May.
Thanks Larry. I like those ideas… particularly sling shooting. I find myself having to relearn it constantly, but it’s over represented in actual hunting situations. Too high brush for prone/bi-pod, too much time constraint for setting up tripod rests… Indian style shots with sling become next best option. Congrats on that bear man!
I echo the comments on learning to shoot standing. Here is my added 2 cents. Learn to shoot standing with a pellet gun. When you have shot enough to learn what works best for you. Upgrade to a 22 and apply what you have learned and see what muscles need to be strengthened. Also see how using a sling can give you stability. One you have got you shooting technique working and you can group well. Pickup your rifle and see what you can do. Because I feel comfortable standing and shooting, I need to say that when I have a choice in shooting two different caliber when hunting an animal, I tent to choose the caliber with the lesser recoil.
For standing off-hand, the technique that totally changed my hit rate is called 7 o'clock approach. Learned it from Pat Kelly from 3-Gun. Nobody can hold a rifle pergectly steady standing, even from a padded shooting coat slung-in tighter than a straight jacket. Once you're familiar with your wobble pattern (typically figure 8 on its side, driven by breathing), as the sight approaches POA from 7 o'clock, you prep and decide to break the shot somewhere along the 7 o'clock approach path before the reticle crosses through the intended POA. I even use it shooting from the bench with full front and rear bag support when I'm rapid-firing accurate gas guns. I'll shoot .3" to .6" 5rd groups on a fast cadence, rather than wasting a bunch of time waiting around.
I keep a Hawk tree hook handy so I can screw it into a tree & use it for a front rest. Use your pack for a rear rest. Works great for a quick steady rest
Thoughts on doing a video concerning practical shooting distances while hunting. What is your maximum distance you try to stay under and what distances do you practice at? Thanks.
Over my years of guiding I always tried to keep shots under 350yds with clients. The guides that worked for me did the same. In general, if we could stalk on elk to 750yds we could also get in to under 400yds with another 15-20mins. 350-400 is what I keep my shots to personally also. I’ve tracked a lot of wounded elk and don’t feel any need to push it beyond that. I practice on angles at 350-600yds pretty regularly.
Yo Cliff, I have the quick stick with the quick clip. it attaches to your picatinny rail making it a QD bipod. you can also buy the 3rd leg and use the QS as a tripod for glassing.
I have the trigger stick (Short and Long). I've used both for hunting. Would not recommend trekking with the long version. It is too loud imho. I recommend the short version if you are trekking, but you also need to find a way to attach it to your pack to be easily deployable.
I’ve been experimenting with longer shots (300-400 yds) with a pig saddle attached to my tripod trigger stick. I’m thinking it’s proving to be a stable platform for me. But the cons of weight, packability, etc. but can get case for trigger stick that is easily attached to pack.
I have a solution for your shooting sticks cut old bicycle tubing about 1'' wide around the tube twist into a figure eight and put on each leg where they clatter get them started then roll up to clatter point put all three so they touch when folded together works great Also try rubbing a little wax on your trekking pole attachment to silence that sqeak
My tracking poles I use a piece of Velcro I wrap around them and it weights nothing. I use day pack and my hat just put it on a brush and it makes nice cradle for gun. Many Antelope have found out with my hat on sage brush. I have even used my binoculars as a rest prone.
Hi, I watched this last night. My only comment would be that I wished that you had also tested the single pole trigger stick. These do not make excess noise, are not bulky to carry as they actually make a good trekking pole. I’ve shot off both the single pole and tripod trigger stick and I didn’t see a whole lot of improvement in accuracy from the tripod. In both your elbows are unsupported. Your thoughts?
I like to use a tripod up front and my back pack frame to support the buttstock. You kind of have to hug your pack. Give it a try, it is a very stable system for knee height brush.
Thanks John. I have actually been trying this and have seen great results. I actually lay my pack across my thigh at an upward angle and it works perfect. good stuff
Great video again Cliff. Last year I bought a Spartan bipod and adapter that mounts to the rifle with the sling mount bolt. I like how quick it is to put on when game is spotted, how light it is, and that I don’t have the weight of a bipod on my rifle while hiking. Are you familiar with the Spartan systems? Now to my question when shooting from s bipod. There is some front to back movement with this setup because of the design, or at least there is for me. Should I be setting the legs in place and then pulling the rifle back to my shoulder to remove any extra movement upon firing? I am shooting a Remington 30-06 with a wood stock. Thanks again for all your great videos.
It's funny to me more people don't incorporate using thier sling in conjunction with rigid support. IE looping the sling tight while using a backpack/trekking poles/ect. Maybe I just got used to always using my sling back in my broke teenage years when bracing off stumps/trees/ or while prone but a solid loop in a sling or tightening one up before getting into position on a pack can really sturdy you up that last 10% you need in a pinch IMO.
Howdy Cliff. Thank you for this video. I just love using my trekking poles(with kwick sticks) when backpacking and find them to be a simple shooting solution. I guess I prefer tools that have multiple purposes on my backpacking/hunting adventures. I practice and shoot very well with them. It is just important that I have a comfortable sitting position. BTW: I love your hats.
Thanks for the comment! Shooting off the trekking poles is growing on me quickly. Totally understand the preference for simplicity and fuel purpose items on backpack hunts. Thanks
The rest in the woods I have used and found it works really well is: I my belt off my pants. I wrap my belt around a tree buckle it up, put my rifle inside the belt and twist the belt until I'm tied against the tree. You get superb accuracy because your rifles anchored to a tree. I suppose you could scratch your beautiful stock but I don't mind a few trophy marks or trophy scars on my beloved rifle.
ha! i like it man. so I need more details. Do you wrap the gun in the belt in front of the scope, around the barrel and forearm? So you set the gun into the belt then rotate the rifle around until its snug against the tree trunk? I really like the idea... my only downside thought would be pressure across the barrel affecting the point of impact
Hey Cliff- Do you think it would be okay to use cheapo ammo for training to shoot at various distances and positions? Barnes bullets aint cheap, and I could save a lot of money using cheap ammo instead of shooting up all the good stuff. Thanks
years before the gadget sporting goods craze became vouge, I used two 36 inch wood dowels bolted at about 4inches and burned darkened for coyote calling shooting sticks- for general big game I used 48 inch dowels- higher to get over brush, from a kneeling or sitting position, and could be used as walking stick in steep terrain, leather wrapped to protect the rifle forend. hardware store purchase of perhaps $3-4 dollars, now everyone flocks to the latest chain retailer to get a factory made device for $200 and think they found a wonder tool
Hey Cliff - really appreciate the knowledge you pass on. Is that hatch bipod the regular or tall version? If it’s the regular, do you ever find yourself wanting the extra height a tall would add?
Great video again Cliff. Last year I bought a Spartan bipod and adapter that mounts to the rifle with the sling mount bolt. I like how quick it is to put on when game is spotted, how light it is, and that I don’t have the weight of a bipod on my rifle while hiking. Are you familiar with the Spartan systems? Now to my question when shooting from s bipod. There is some front to back movement with this setup because of the design, or at least there is for me. Should I be setting the legs in place and then pulling the rifle back to my shoulder to remove any extra movement upon firing? I am shooting a Remington 30-06 with a wood stock. Thanks again for all your great videos.
Thanks Pat. I am familiar with Spartan. Never gave it a try due to lazyness changing out mounts, adapters, etc… for years now I have had pic rails on my forearms. I with check them out in the future as I’ll checkout the arca-type mounts a lot of folks are moving to. Thanks
On your marksmanship question and the bipod. Yes, I feel the same way. I actually prefer the bipods that can angle the legs slightly forward, that way when I get the rifle into my shoulder I can push just slightly and make everything much more stable. Does that make any sense?
@@CliffGray thank you for this response. So you are saying that you push into the tripod, causing the top of the tripod to angle away from you? That was what my initial instinct was, yet was told that was not the correct way to shoot from a bipod. They said the top should be pulled back towards you for less bipod movement during the shot
@@patweidmann6804 So the legs of my bipod are actually canted forward, when I shoot. Meaning where the legs touch the ground is further way from me relative to where the bipod mounts to my rifle. Because of this, I am able to put some weight into the butt of my gun... with that slight weight the bipod is still angled or just perpendicular to the ground. Does that make sense? If I did this with a bipod that only had perpendicular legs to the forearm, it would push the gun forward over the bipod - I believe this would be incorrect as you mention.
@@CliffGray Thanks Cliff. That is exactly what I was wondering about. I enjoy how down to earth you are and how well you explain everything. I bet your are one of the most enjoyable guides a hunter could want.
I had a cross canyon shot on a steep slope last week vs black bear. I pulled my knees up and tried to use my knees as a rest… Needless to say I missed. Not sleeping well. Wish I saw this video three weeks ago. That’s on me 😢
Howdy Cliff, What are your thoughts on FHF's Tac mtn rifle rest? I've used it attached to my tripod and on trekking poles with some success, and it takes away that burden of having to swap out your tripod attachment. Plus it's super light and doesn't take up hardly any room. Just curious if you've had any experience with it?
Lmao I bought my good hat off FB it is a NOS 40 yo Gray felt hat and the widow that had the hats said this gray one he must have bought for me because it's my size and probably won't fit you. She had a Jughead. I wear that hat everyday in the winter months.
Love your videos ! What is the make and model of the high end detachable bipod you have that cants and also spreads wide and starts at about 9-12” long ?
Hey Cliff what hatch bipod where you using? I see they have a regular and a tall Version. What would you recommend between the two for all around hunting.
Vertical stringing is an indicator of inappropriate rear stabilization. Look at your groups and think back to your positions and the direction of your wobble zone.
The single leg trigger stick? I have used it. For me, the single leg provides so little additional stability that I’d only use it as a last result. I’d consider Indian style shooting, with a sling, more stable than a single pole. If you are shooting in tall brush it’s a lot better than free standing shots.
Brain guy is just hating, cause you make it look good! And obviously he can't. So he clowns on others to make him feel better about himself and his own ego. Keep rocking your hats out and do you brother!
I really like American Rugers. Like to get me that model your running there. Not sure why anyone would make fun of your hat. It's a classic, it seems to me, for guys who work in the back country with horses. You have to have a good X rating to sustain all the hard work, sweat and general abuse. Your not walking through the mall in western attire. If I were to pick on something, it be that manicured chin strap beard...
All great solutions, Cliff! The rest I prefer, is shooting off a hunting partner’s shoulder. The only issue I sometimes encounter is the “rest” whining and complaining about muzzle blast. One way to get around this, is to use a very, very loud muzzle-break initially to desensitize the “rest”. After break-in, i.e., permanent hearing loss, this is a quick set up that gets everyone involved in the shot!
Ha!
The best rest is actually the saddle of a well broke burro
This was hilarious 😂
🤣 reeeeeeeeeeee
Patrick McManus lives on in this comment
Hahahaha 😂 that’s great!
Folks, I’ve hunted Elk and Deer in Colorado all of my life and I’m 63. Just want to say, you can listen to this guy, he knows his stuff. No BS.
Jay, really appreciate the support. thanks
Cliff .....thanks a ton for the amount of quality info in one spot. Granted .....it took me a ton of hours to figure alot of this stuff out but I'm binge watching and sending your videos to everyone I know and still learning a ton.....thank you so much man!
Awesome man! Thanks
Binge watching too, over and over… conceptualizing the field and different experiences…
super helpful!
I appreciate the pros/cons prior to using and after use!
Thanks Mark!
Great video discussing options for rests. As a Hunter's Safety Instructor we teach students "the most important thing to an accurate shot is a good rest". As an aside, you don't need a special adapter for trekking poles, back in the '80's/90's when I was a Marine Reservist in Wisconsin we were taught to use our ski poles as a rest, they work best for kneeling but with modern trekking poles you can adjust down to sitting. You don't need an adapter, just loop the wrist straps over the opposite handle, cross the poles, kick the legs out a little in front, and lean into them to take up slack.
You are a wealth of knowledge. Thanks for sharing. One of my favorite sayings. Learn it, live it, share it.
If you want to be an expert at something. Teach it!!!
Thanks man!
Thanks for the comparison, I like shooting off a pack and my Spartan Bipods preloaded a little. I always prone out when possible. Also that the first thing I do in a hunting spot is practice aiming at different areas thinking what if something came out here. I would love to do a horseback elk hunt with you. Keep up the videos love them.
I also would love to see a demonstration how to pack a crossbow on a horse and how to carry an Xbow daily on a horseback hunt?
I did very similar experiments and went with the Primos trigger stick tripod. In my case I was more likely to shoot standing and liked its speed in setting up and ability to adjust to inclines/irregular ground.
With the exception of the Trigger Sticks and the tripod clamp set up, I use or have used all that you demonstrated. I, just last year, acquired the adaptor for my trekking poles. I can tell you that once you learn to pre-load them with the rifle resting on them (just like a bipod) and practice with them every shooting session, they are amazingly accurate, rest rifle combination. Also, as you stated, carrying one less piece of equipment. One reason I went to range finding binocs.
for sure!
100% agree with you on the hog saddle I think a tripod is the best system but needs a good pan head, not only helps accuracy by making quick easy adjustments but adds versatility since you get arca mounts to qd binos or spotting scopes when sitting(or standing) out glassing
When using the Quick sticks on the trekking poles you should look into purchasing their quick clip adapter. It’s a pic rail mount, it locks into the quick sticks and you can set it at 45 degrees for shooting prone. Game changer!!
I saw it on there website. I’ll check it out. I really like the simplicity of the basic adapter they have. Just need to try the rail attachment to see if it takes away from the simplicity or not…. Good to hear you like it. Thanks
Spartan precision bipod and tripod combo. I run the bipod in my pocket and tripod in my pack unless I'm sitting/glassing. Rifle, spotter, and bino all use the same mount that goes on in under a second. Plus the tripod pulls triple duty as a monopod, tall bipod, and trekking poles.
Sounds like something I should do for my new rifle. Can you elaborate? You carry both? How’s the weight? What is the attachment on the rifle? Will look it up.
I have always brought a "heat-a-seat" sitting pad, it's on the outside of the pack always, provides a seat but can be instantly deployed for shooting prone, or to stabilize the rifle on a tree branch or rock or stump. It's near weightless and of course provides comfort while glassing. Sometimes I put it outside the frame but under the pack and doesn't even need to be tied on if your pack has weight.
I like that idea, just checked it out on amazon. I'll give it a try. thanks
Shooting prone off the primos trigger sticks is very solid. Spread the legs as far as they go, lie prone and grip one of legs making a fist. Lay your rifle in the crux between your fist and the leg instead of the yoke. I have shot steal at 560 yards using this rest and harvested a mule deer at 340 yards using this technique. Downside is that its a lot to carry in the mountains.
excellent video man, keep em’ coming!
Thanks!
Couple questions/comments.
1. How were you adjusting for bullet drop/where is the zero relative to the range you shot. The bipod had the smallest 3 shot Group but was all high. Is this due to the zero being at say 200 or 250yard vs target at 150/160yard? Or did you dial in to the exact range? Accuracy vs precision. Mean distance to centre is more important than group size if you were dialing to the exact range.
2. Set up time. If you were walking and spotted an animal within range and had 30sec to identify target, get set up and shoot what would you do?
3. Every shot you fired was a kill shot at reasonable range. So I think it come down to speed of set up and use of what you carry for possible expected shot angle or position.
Personally I'm backpack or back pack + trekking poles for prone uphill or backpack with trekking poles in side pocket shooting through the cradle of the handle straps for sitting. Dump pack, toss rifle over, shoot. They are all accurate enough but speed can be the determining factor between success and failure.
4. Small sample size. For the effort you put in to make the video, I would have loved to see you shoot 2x 3 shot groups at the same target. Would tell a much better story to accuracy and precision. Also setting a timer from standing with pack on to firing
My pack is my favorite rest
Great review! Thank you, I always use the quick Stix ir the pack method primarily because I've already got em with me!
you bet Tom! thanks
I've been using the Caldwell shooting sticks from a sitting position, elbows on the knees. They are light, quick to get set up, and pretty versatile on different terrain and angles. Haven't seen those mentioned so I thought I would chime in. I am going to try the trekking pole adapter now though. Good stuff, folks need to sight in on the bench, then practice real world to see what works for their style of hunting. Thanks!
Thanks Joel!
Another great video @Cliff. I see you are shooting a rifle with a synthetic stock and the rigid type rests are actually very good because there is usually 0.030” to 0.050” of free float between the forearm and the barrel. That is a lesson for those who shoot a rifle with a wood stock, you need at least 0.030” to 0.050” of free float clearance between the barrel and the forearm. I am speaking from 50 years of experience. I personally don’t like to use rigid type bipods or other rests because all of my rifle are wood stocks and all have at least 0.030” of clearance. I have shot off the top of the frame of my pack (Mystery Ranch Metcalf) and I have shot off trekking poles, however, I rest my rifle on those type rests where the rest is just forward of the magazine cover. The further back you get your rest the more the weight of the forward end of the rifle will help to steady the rifle. Use the weight of your rifle to your advantage. Also, when I shoot of such a rest I place my off hand on top of the objective lens of my scope this further helps to steady your rifle. When I practice shooting I spend a lot of time shooting in the offhand position (standing) because it is the hardest to master. I can shoot just fine prime, sitting and kneeling and do take a few shots in those positions. But if you can master the offhand (standing) position you will be a true marksman. I practice out to 600 yards standing. You never know what you can do until you try it and when you need to take that shot you ought to be sure of your skill in that position. I have killed many head of game from the offhand or offhand with the side of a tree or something else as a semi-rest. I also have a stand up bench I use to work up loads, a stand up bench puts your body I the best position the absorb heavy recoiling magnums and is just more natural to use. I don’t own a bipod for a rifle, I sold them all, and my tripod is for my spotting scope and binoculars, I just don’t like a rigid rest. Just speaking from experience.
Great tips here! Thanks
As always great info thanks for sharing!!
For your shooting test: Obviously being prone with a bipod, a rear rest on flat terrain is your ideal. But that's perfect conditions. What do you find you most often actually use?
So many times there's a lot of ground vegetation, where seated is the best you can do but often standing is all you can do. Right now I have a permanent 6"-9" bipod and a bipod style shooting stick that can extend to 6 ft. I'm trying to find the almost "do it all" setup so I don't need to carry extra crap. The shooting stick takes a good 30 seconds to deploy and at the moment I can't even get it off my pack without taking it off first. Makes opportunity shots basically evaporate.
The trigger stix also come in a shorter version. It’s not for standing - but kneeling or sitting. I really like it better for the lower positions. You just have to make a decision that you won’t need a standing shot. I have both sizes. They are really sturdy. The new ones are slotted so you can switch with a glass attachment.
This is 2 years old but I kinda like the hat. Like the 360 shade around your head. Might pick one up.
I also struggle shooting from a pack, so I quit trying. I like the atlas bipod best. I can shoot with any bipod which allows me to level the gun. With cheaper bipod, I just lean a little to “load” the bipod. It takes all of the play out of the joints and helps keep the gun tight in the shoulder. I set up, then move my body forward an inch or so while keeping the bipod legs planted.
Good tip
It would be interesting to see the test run again with your pack as rear support.
Or bear hugging it with the quick sticks. That’s hard to beat.
@@wesnelson4792 What do you mean by bear hugging it? I don't know that tactic.
Its hard to beat the tripod set up and to combat the clacking I just hit Home Depot and grab the Velcro Wraps ($5-ish) and they wrap and cling back on themselves and being just strips they come in handy for everything-like use them wrapped it on a set of poles around both, one in the center of the other wrap to keep the whole thing strong and there ya go. Iused a pack and poles a lot growing up in Alaska. Just my 2 cents worth. Really nice vid info on different equipment and the biggest thing is train with all your gear. Take care and be safe my friend.
Hey mate not sure if you have heard of it but 1 rest I really like and you might too, is called a tree hook. It’s just a big pot plant hook screwed into a tree with some padding on the bottom. I just bent the hook out a bit so it looks like a U shape so there is room for a thicker stock.
Great video on shooting comparison using each method.... I used Quick Stix on my last backcountry Coues hunt and shot my trophy buck at 420 yards!
Nice!
I just switched all my rifles to chassis systems with full length Arca rails.
I have Area 419 Arca adapters on my bipods and I can clamp directly into my tripod.
I need to try this, a couple folks have mentioned this setup
Love your videos. It's easy to tell you know the material your talking about
Glad you enjoy them!
Using my arm wrapped through the sling and going overhand on the scope is absolutely key for me shooting off the pack or sticks. Still trying to move away from the bipod and work in other options. So far I'm pretty lethal at 500 on mixed rests but not where I want to be for october. I missed out on an elk last year because I hadn't practiced and couldn't get set up after realizing I couldn't get a tree to work.
I like that sling use idea. I'll give it a try. Thanks!
@@CliffGray I forgot that the caveat is the best slings for this aren’t very comfortable in light clothing for carry, ha. I’m new to shooting long so you know more than me, just something that’s been helping me.
The trigger stick also has a removable gun rest. and comes with a attachment that connects to most spoting scopes
Look at Cliff is SO relaxed and takes his time is aiming as well as after the shot…something tells me he can group those shots on a pile of rocks or a stand up unaided aim.
Definitely a rather nice side by side comparison of the variety of rests.
I have an Eberlestock F1 Mainframe pack with the F7 Kite bag on it. I should be able to shoot off it in the vertical position well, but I need practice. I have my Savage M110 Long Range Hunter in 300 WSM set up to use the Swagger QD42 and I do like it in the certain situations. I probably will take it on my mule deer 🦌 hunt in Wyoming. But with my .270 Win that has a wood stock I plan on using for pronghorn during the same hunting trip. I might pick up the hog saddle setup or trigger sticks.
Once I get a legit set of trekking poles I definitely want those quick sticks connectors, although they are super squeaky 🐭.
Thanks 🙏 for sharing this Cliff.
👍 thanks Forrest. I got that squeaky worked out with a tiny amount of grease. Not a peep now
@@CliffGray Excellent I am sure it is great to hear the “sound of silence 🤫”. I probably would have done the same thing. I like having options and versatility in my setups.
hey man, love your videos… would you be able to do a video on what to look for in a knife? hunting, bushcraft and survival or maybe an allrounder? it’s hard to find good unbiased info in this area. The markets flooded and it’s a pain to carry around a bunch of different knives if 1 or 2 can do it. (primarily for a multi-day back pack hunt) thanx man! 🙏
If you are going to take the time to review these products, you should throw affiliate links in the description. Costs us nothing, great way for us to support your channel, and you are making it anyway.
Cheers!
Thanks Jordan! I’ll look into doing that. Appreciate the support 👍
Great comparison. To be clear, the accuracy you got with any of these rests is easily good enough to kill any big game animal in the US out to 3-400 yards - assuming 9" vitals; the vast majority of game is taken at ranges less than 250. However, the best (in my experience) field shooting rest is a simple tripod made from three 36-inch lengths of 1/2-inch wooden dowel, tied together by several turns of a leather thong wound round the sticks and tied off. Simply pulling the sticks apart creates a surprisingly stable tripod. The leather thong can be slid up and down the sticks to adjust for shooting height and so this simple rest can be used prone, sitting or kneeling. It's very inexpensive, very light, very quick and easy to set up in and there are no moving parts to fail in the field. It also meets the KISS principle - keep it simple stupid. With a bit of practice it's superb.
Thanks for Video!! As always helpful and practical
Try the trekking poles with the quick clip. Works prone as well and now left hand can tuck in and aim w stock. Very accurate
I’ll check it out. Thanks.
Before you put on your hat, I was ready to fire off a comment that you don't need to stand in the sun like an idiot! Great video! THANKS!
I like the long trigger stick for shooting up hill.
This was great. I've messed around with these and I think I'm settled on the quick sticks , bipod + pack as support. How about some free hand shooting with a sling, standing or off the knee? I realize that's not ideal. But That's basically what I had to this past May.
Thanks Larry. I like those ideas… particularly sling shooting. I find myself having to relearn it constantly, but it’s over represented in actual hunting situations. Too high brush for prone/bi-pod, too much time constraint for setting up tripod rests… Indian style shots with sling become next best option. Congrats on that bear man!
I echo the comments on learning to shoot standing. Here is my added 2 cents.
Learn to shoot standing with a pellet gun. When you have shot enough to learn what works best for you. Upgrade to a 22 and apply what you have learned and see what muscles need to be strengthened. Also see how using a sling can give you stability. One you have got you shooting technique working and you can group well. Pickup your rifle and see what you can do.
Because I feel comfortable standing and shooting, I need to say that when I have a choice in shooting two different caliber when hunting an animal, I tent to choose the caliber with the lesser recoil.
For standing off-hand, the technique that totally changed my hit rate is called 7 o'clock approach. Learned it from Pat Kelly from 3-Gun.
Nobody can hold a rifle pergectly steady standing, even from a padded shooting coat slung-in tighter than a straight jacket.
Once you're familiar with your wobble pattern (typically figure 8 on its side, driven by breathing), as the sight approaches POA from 7 o'clock, you prep and decide to break the shot somewhere along the 7 o'clock approach path before the reticle crosses through the intended POA.
I even use it shooting from the bench with full front and rear bag support when I'm rapid-firing accurate gas guns. I'll shoot .3" to .6" 5rd groups on a fast cadence, rather than wasting a bunch of time waiting around.
great info...appreciate it!
Valuable information. Thank you
Glad it was helpful! 👍
I keep a Hawk tree hook handy so I can screw it into a tree & use it for a front rest. Use your pack for a rear rest. Works great for a quick steady rest
A very good. Demo
Thoughts on doing a video concerning practical shooting distances while hunting. What is your maximum distance you try to stay under and what distances do you practice at? Thanks.
Over my years of guiding I always tried to keep shots under 350yds with clients. The guides that worked for me did the same. In general, if we could stalk on elk to 750yds we could also get in to under 400yds with another 15-20mins.
350-400 is what I keep my shots to personally also. I’ve tracked a lot of wounded elk and don’t feel any need to push it beyond that.
I practice on angles at 350-600yds pretty regularly.
@@CliffGray I would love to see a video on this also. Great comment.
I like to shoot when I can using a bipod and a pack in combo the bipod steadies the rifle and the pack makes me comfortable
👍
Yo Cliff, I have the quick stick with the quick clip. it attaches to your picatinny rail making it a QD bipod. you can also buy the 3rd leg and use the QS as a tripod for glassing.
Hat - Pretty sure he was kidding. Classic line from the SNL Jeopardy skits: Sean Connery “Nice jacket Trebek, do they make them for men?”
I gotcha - honestly even if he wasn’t kidding, I appreciate the joke. It made my wife and I laugh pretty hard 😜
Loving the Goggins shirt!
for sure!
Man I really enjoy your content. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. If they don’t like your hate F@&k em!
ha! thanks man
Just throwing the wrist strap on each trekking pole over the handle of the other makes a nice little cradle for my rifle.
Turn the trek poles upside down to shoot prone. I have the quick stix and like these for the mountain hunts.
Great content
👍
Thanks!
love the content homie and keep rockn those hats, ha
Thanks man! I’m gunna try that whole Quik stix setup out. I’m hearing great things.
I have one of those little Ruger American Predators as well. It’s crazy accurate for a $ 379 rifle.
yeah, totally agree!
I have the trigger stick (Short and Long). I've used both for hunting. Would not recommend trekking with the long version. It is too loud imho. I recommend the short version if you are trekking, but you also need to find a way to attach it to your pack to be easily deployable.
Would like to see what your unsupported prone group is to demo the benefits of a rest to begin with
I’ve been experimenting with longer shots (300-400 yds) with a pig saddle attached to my tripod trigger stick. I’m thinking it’s proving to be a stable platform for me. But the cons of weight, packability, etc. but can get case for trigger stick that is easily attached to pack.
Great video. Man you could call in predators (1:02) with those trekking poles.
I have a solution for your shooting sticks
cut old bicycle tubing about 1'' wide around the tube twist into a figure eight and put on each leg where they clatter
get them started then roll up to clatter point put all three so they touch when folded together
works great
Also try rubbing a little wax on your trekking pole attachment to silence that sqeak
Thanks for the tip Dennis!
Have you tried an arca rail on your rifle? Connects to bipods or tripods really well.
Pretty cool! Have you thought about using an arca plate bolted on your rifle to interface with the tripod over the hog saddle?
I have. I’ve had that setup recommended by a few folks who really like it. I’ll give it a try. Thanks!
My tracking poles I use a piece of Velcro I wrap around them and it weights nothing. I use day pack and my hat just put it on a brush and it makes nice cradle for gun. Many Antelope have found out with my hat on sage brush. I have even used my binoculars as a rest prone.
Hi, I watched this last night. My only comment would be that I wished that you had also tested the single pole trigger stick. These do not make excess noise, are not bulky to carry as they actually make a good trekking pole. I’ve shot off both the single pole and tripod trigger stick and I didn’t see a whole lot of improvement in accuracy from the tripod. In both your elbows are unsupported. Your thoughts?
Interesting, I’ve never tried one but made the assumption they would be much less stable vs the tripod. I’ll check it out. Thanks
Thank you🎉 excellent
I like to use a tripod up front and my back pack frame to support the buttstock. You kind of have to hug your pack. Give it a try, it is a very stable system for knee height brush.
Thanks John. I have actually been trying this and have seen great results. I actually lay my pack across my thigh at an upward angle and it works perfect. good stuff
Gear gazing is a waste ot time and money but I do it cause it pumps me up to get in shape for the hunt
I hear ya on that!
Great video again Cliff. Last year I bought a Spartan bipod and adapter that mounts to the rifle with the sling mount bolt. I like how quick it is to put on when game is spotted, how light it is, and that I don’t have the weight of a bipod on my rifle while hiking. Are you familiar with the Spartan systems? Now to my question when shooting from s bipod. There is some front to back movement with this setup because of the design, or at least there is for me. Should I be setting the legs in place and then pulling the rifle back to my shoulder to remove any extra movement upon firing? I am shooting a Remington 30-06 with a wood stock. Thanks again for all your great videos.
What're your thoughts on Rhodesian slings and similar solutions, if that's something you've worked with. Think it's viable for longer ranges?
It's funny to me more people don't incorporate using thier sling in conjunction with rigid support. IE looping the sling tight while using a backpack/trekking poles/ect. Maybe I just got used to always using my sling back in my broke teenage years when bracing off stumps/trees/ or while prone but a solid loop in a sling or tightening one up before getting into position on a pack can really sturdy you up that last 10% you need in a pinch IMO.
O man my wife hates when i start watching these gear reviews...thanks for the video's
Ha!
Howdy Cliff. Thank you for this video. I just love using my trekking poles(with kwick sticks) when backpacking and find them to be a simple shooting solution. I guess I prefer tools that have multiple purposes on my backpacking/hunting adventures. I practice and shoot very well with them. It is just important that I have a comfortable sitting position. BTW: I love your hats.
Thanks for the comment! Shooting off the trekking poles is growing on me quickly. Totally understand the preference for simplicity and fuel purpose items on backpack hunts. Thanks
Hey Cliff, I appreciate all the videos!!!! For the trek sticks, what adaptor did you use to get them in the X formation? My holder only goes parallel.
It’s a Wiser Precision Quik-Stix adapter 👍
A medium or low height trigger stick would eliminate most or all of that bounce, as the legs wouldn't be splayed out so far.
The rest in the woods I have used and found it works really well is: I my belt off my pants. I wrap my belt around a tree buckle it up, put my rifle inside the belt and twist the belt until I'm tied against the tree. You get superb accuracy because your rifles anchored to a tree. I suppose you could scratch your beautiful stock but I don't mind a few trophy marks or trophy scars on my beloved rifle.
ha! i like it man. so I need more details. Do you wrap the gun in the belt in front of the scope, around the barrel and forearm? So you set the gun into the belt then rotate the rifle around until its snug against the tree trunk?
I really like the idea... my only downside thought would be pressure across the barrel affecting the point of impact
Thanks Cliff. Can you work out a discount code with hatch for us?
I'll reach out to them and see if that is possible. thanks
Hey Cliff- Do you think it would be okay to use cheapo ammo for training to shoot at various distances and positions? Barnes bullets aint cheap, and I could save a lot of money using cheap ammo instead of shooting up all the good stuff. Thanks
years before the gadget sporting goods craze became vouge, I used two 36 inch wood dowels bolted at about 4inches and burned darkened for coyote calling shooting sticks- for general big game I used 48 inch dowels- higher to get over brush, from a kneeling or sitting position, and could be used as walking stick in steep terrain, leather wrapped to protect the rifle forend. hardware store purchase of perhaps $3-4 dollars, now everyone flocks to the latest chain retailer to get a factory made device for $200 and think they found a wonder tool
Hahaha! Almost everything useful someone else figured out years ago 👍
David Goggins shirt!!!!
Yeah buddy!
Hey Cliff - really appreciate the knowledge you pass on. Is that hatch bipod the regular or tall version? If it’s the regular, do you ever find yourself wanting the extra height a tall would add?
What specific tripod did you have the hog saddle mounted on?
Great video again Cliff. Last year I bought a Spartan bipod and adapter that mounts to the rifle with the sling mount bolt. I like how quick it is to put on when game is spotted, how light it is, and that I don’t have the weight of a bipod on my rifle while hiking. Are you familiar with the Spartan systems? Now to my question when shooting from s bipod. There is some front to back movement with this setup because of the design, or at least there is for me. Should I be setting the legs in place and then pulling the rifle back to my shoulder to remove any extra movement upon firing? I am shooting a Remington 30-06 with a wood stock. Thanks again for all your great videos.
Thanks Pat.
I am familiar with Spartan. Never gave it a try due to lazyness changing out mounts, adapters, etc… for years now I have had pic rails on my forearms. I with check them out in the future as I’ll checkout the arca-type mounts a lot of folks are moving to. Thanks
On your marksmanship question and the bipod. Yes, I feel the same way. I actually prefer the bipods that can angle the legs slightly forward, that way when I get the rifle into my shoulder I can push just slightly and make everything much more stable. Does that make any sense?
@@CliffGray thank you for this response. So you are saying that you push into the tripod, causing the top of the tripod to angle away from you? That was what my initial instinct was, yet was told that was not the correct way to shoot from a bipod. They said the top should be pulled back towards you for less bipod movement during the shot
@@patweidmann6804 So the legs of my bipod are actually canted forward, when I shoot. Meaning where the legs touch the ground is further way from me relative to where the bipod mounts to my rifle. Because of this, I am able to put some weight into the butt of my gun... with that slight weight the bipod is still angled or just perpendicular to the ground. Does that make sense? If I did this with a bipod that only had perpendicular legs to the forearm, it would push the gun forward over the bipod - I believe this would be incorrect as you mention.
@@CliffGray Thanks Cliff. That is exactly what I was wondering about. I enjoy how down to earth you are and how well you explain everything. I bet your are one of the most enjoyable guides a hunter could want.
I had a cross canyon shot on a steep slope last week vs black bear. I pulled my knees up and tried to use my knees as a rest… Needless to say I missed. Not sleeping well. Wish I saw this video three weeks ago. That’s on me 😢
Bummer! Bear season isn’t over yet… go for it again
Howdy Cliff,
What are your thoughts on FHF's Tac mtn rifle rest? I've used it attached to my tripod and on trekking poles with some success, and it takes away that burden of having to swap out your tripod attachment. Plus it's super light and doesn't take up hardly any room. Just curious if you've had any experience with it?
Lmao I bought my good hat off FB it is a NOS 40 yo Gray felt hat and the widow that had the hats said this gray one he must have bought for me because it's my size and probably won't fit you. She had a Jughead. I wear that hat everyday in the winter months.
Love your videos ! What is the make and model of the high end detachable bipod you have that cants and also spreads wide and starts at about 9-12” long ?
That is a Hatch bipod
Hey Cliff what hatch bipod where you using? I see they have a regular and a tall Version. What would you recommend between the two for all around hunting.
@@mav22100 I have the regular. It is perfect for all the shooting positions I use. thanks
Vertical stringing is an indicator of inappropriate rear stabilization. Look at your groups and think back to your positions and the direction of your wobble zone.
Which Kifaru pack is that?
I have several. I believe the one in this video is the AMR
which of these are quickest to get on target ,?
Pack
Any thoughts on the single leg quik stix? I know it eleminates the clacking with loss of stability
The single leg trigger stick? I have used it. For me, the single leg provides so little additional stability that I’d only use it as a last result. I’d consider Indian style shooting, with a sling, more stable than a single pole. If you are shooting in tall brush it’s a lot better than free standing shots.
@@CliffGray Yes trigger stick! My bad. Those are good thoughts!
If you’re poor, you can use bungee cord to connect your trekking poles together and make a rest similar to quick sticks.
Great tip! I’m sure that would work
FAntastic
Brain guy is just hating, cause you make it look good! And obviously he can't. So he clowns on others to make him feel better about himself and his own ego.
Keep rocking your hats out and do you brother!
I really like American Rugers. Like to get me that model your running there.
Not sure why anyone would make fun of your hat. It's a classic, it seems to me, for guys who work in the back country with horses. You have to have a good X rating to sustain all the hard work, sweat and general abuse. Your not walking through the mall in western attire. If I were to pick on something, it be that manicured chin strap beard...
Just teasing bro. Keep the videos coming.
bwhahahahaha!
You should ignore the haters. They only exist to spread negativity and make the world a worse place to live.
👍👍👍I do, but at times I get a good laugh 😁
Best camp with a portable electric fence in bear country. Lightest is 2.4 lbs. Small kit for huge peace of mind
buahahaha Brian's a comedian. sorry that was pretty funny.
I agree… it still makes me laugh
If I hunted with anything as squeaky as those hiking sticks I’d never get a shot 😆 unless it was a long range shot
Haha! I actual put a tiny little dab of grease on them… squeak’s gone! 👍