My personal theory is that the final Eikon is the true form of Ifrit after obtaining all the summons and after some sort of significant event. His final form could end up being something like Diabolos or some sort of new figure. I believe this is supported by the mural painting in the trailer and the Amano art. All other summons are confirmed in the artwork, aside from Leviathan, who we've yet seen depicted in gameplay. The topmost figure in the mural and the central figure in the Amano artwork do seem to depict an Ifrit sort of appearance, however, transformed in some type of way.
Yeah, the mural figure and and Amano box art definitely point to a very significant Eikon (or maybe just god?) that we haven't seen yet and that will likely pop up end game. It's definitely possible that it's some sort of evolved Ifrit and I'm definitely excited to see for myself!
@Thalwegg In whatever way it plays out, I can't see it being anything other than somehow related to Ifrit. Every other Eikon depicted is easily recognizable other than this figure. The only way I could see otherwise would be if there were also a "normal" Ifrit in the artworks in addition to this figure, but that's obviously not the case. To help support this theory, as far as we know, Ifrit is the only duplicate elemental Eikon. In the first trailer, it's made pretty clear that Ifrit shouldn't exist at least as far as the various character's understanding goes. There's definitely something peculiar with Ifrit in general that leads me to believe he's somehow the catalyst that will lead to the awakening of this god-like figure.
@@matthewabsher2764 For sure. I mean to go even further it appears that there are potentially 2 ifrits (if its not just clive hallucinating) and Clive is likely the only person who can obtain new eikon powers like we saw in the most recent press event. As for the duplicated elementals yeah I agree, I just have to wonder what is the Earth Eikon that we've seen a couple of times now, primarily in the Revenge trailer. It could be some rampaging form of Titan maybe, but it could potentially be a second earth eikon which would complicate things even further. But I would agree, I think its very clear with Clive being the center of this story that that unknown Eikon has to in some way be related to Clive and by extension Ifrit.
The figure in the Center of the mural is Diabolos most likely. Probably an evolved/final form because the base form looks more like a basic demon/devil.
I saw this video pop up on my recommended around when you posted it, I ignored it completely because this wasn’t even something I wanted to speculate or piece together, I wanted to experience it all on my own, but I never forgot about this video. I waited until I beat the game and came back just to see what you got right, and with everything we were given you did a great job pinpointing a lot of things down. Of course you got some stuff wrong, but it would be impossible to get it all right. All in all great job and great video👍🏻
Thanks man, I myself want to come back and rewatch eventually. Right now life is so busy for me I don't have the time to make videos, but I beat the game and have a lot of thoughts I want to share. One those those videos I make might just be me rewatching my old content and trying to figure out what I got right and wrong. Or maybe make it a livestream.
I'd say the logic is sound. It's a bit front-loaded, which is to be epected because that's where all our information is. So I expect there's probably a few more main story beats and deviating journeys, between say Dalmekia and returning to Sanbrique, probably a little more time spent in the southern continent.
Yes there is a lot of unknowns, I think the largest is the time between the Garuda fight which we have now seen in the previews and the scene on the volcano in the Iron Kingdom. But I do agree basically everything after Hugo is a big ? other than maybe boss order since we have so little information. The levels indicate that the story move pretty fast at that point but with the game being a RPG there can be a lot of level variance so really who knows how much stuff they can shove in there.
Pretty good theory. The only thing I don't think will happen is working with Barnabas. In the Demo Cid makes it pretty clear that he is not a fan of Barnabas, and Benedikta basically says that Cid is betraying his kindness.
Yep! I noticed that too when watching the new material. I had thrown that out there as a theory as to how Clive gets on the path of destroying the mothercrystals but it definitely appears that I was wrong. Instead it does seem like an inadvertent common goal between the two parties. That definitely begs the question of why we are destroying the mothercrystals though.
I completely missed the fact that Clive became enslaved, thanks for your insight! Also, so far the story seems suspiciously simple to understand and straightforward, but this is a Final Fantasy game, I have the feeling the story will feature another layer of complexity and confusing plot points we're not aware of yet... I'm still convinced that the cloaked man might be Joshua from the future
I'm almost positive that the back half of the game will throw us for a loop. I agree though so far its been fairly easy to figure out what's going on at a macro scale. Though this totally ignore the micro stories and clues that they just aren't showing
A couple of things you said that I believe are confirmed false unless I misunderstood you: - Clive doesn't transform into an Eikon to protect Joshua. Joshua is the Dominant of Phoenix, and transforms into Phoenix likely as a defense mechanism when cornered by the hooded figure. At this point in the story it is widely accepted that Clive isn't a Dominant. He was supposed to be the Dominant of Phoenix, but for some reason he wasn't and it instead ended up being Joshua. The reason Clive can use Phoenix powers in the early-game is he was given the Blessing of the Phoenix _by_ Joshua. In other words, the Ifrit we see in this scene has to be the person who killed Joshua (or had to have been working with/summoned by them). - Joshua is assumed dead/killed by the assassins from what we know at this point in the story. While he does transform into Phoenix as a defense mechanism, it's likely that the Dominant of Ifrit kills him. It's not 100% certain that Joshua dies/he _could_ end up being alive, but Clive believes he was killed. - Clive and Cid's trip to visit Benedikta isn't related to the Mother Crystal. They are there seeking out "the fire dominant," which has to be Ifrit... aka the person he suspects transformed into Ifrit and killed Joshua. They likely received a tip that Benedikta found, or knew the location of the Dominant or was working with them. Great video by the way! It does sound like you got the order of events right and their trajectory of travel. You also revealed a lot of things I didn't yet know/wasn't aware of. All of this makes me very hyped for the game.
So on the first point, when I say that Clive transforms to protect Joshua I am theorizing that he might also transform into ifrit as well as the other hooded figure. We know that there are two ifrits and we know for sure that Clive is one of them. My theory revolves around the concept that sometimes the eikon itself is in control, not the dominant (or whatever clive really is) and that maybe Clive goes on a rampage and just doesn't remember. Looking back I had thought the scene at the end of dominance was clive punching the other ifrit attacking his brother but instead I think thats just from the two ifrit scene we saw in the revenge trailer. So in summary yeah I think youre right that its unlikely that Clive transforms here, but still possible. Yes absolutely Clive thinks his brother was killed by Ifrit. We actually have seen when Joshua starts to transform when the phoenix tails sprout out of him after his fathers head is cut off. There's obviously some weird stuff going on with Joshua since we see a young version of him with Clive in the Revenge trailer as well but I also think its safe to say that the ifrit is who "killed" joshua and somehow clive saw him and remembers. Yep this was something I was theorizing since I wasnt sure why we and Barnabus has the same objective and this video came out right before the gameplay dump. In retrospect yeah that's the reason we go to the castle where Bene is (you can check out my video going over the story of the gameplay preview where I discuss this more at length) But yeah also with the gameplay dump the whole armor/brand theory is basically confirmed so I think the general order of events is pretty rock solid. I'm also excited to play the game in just a few months!
@@thalwegg6535 All makes perfect sense! Btw I have a theory (it's not _completely_ mine, moreso I've pieced together information gleaned from your video and also information from theories on Reddit). I think it lines up perfectly with what you described in the video, so I would really love to hear your thoughts on it: To summarize it, I believe the hooded figures can control, manipulate, and/or summon Eikons... which also means the ability to manipulate the Dominants as well. I think these hooded figures are behind all of the destructive events that transpire in Valesthia, essentially manipulating the Dominants and world powers to cause Valisthea to go to war. I believe they summoned an Ifrit and used him to kill Joshua (after Joshua transformed into Phoenix). Then, when Clive makes it his mission to destroy the mothercrystals, I believe they realize that their goals are actually aligned with Clive's. When Clive is fighting Garuda, someone whispers to him telling him to awaken. I believe the voice we hear egging him on is the hooded figure who killed Joshua... essentially manipulating him to awaken, making it easier to accomplish his goal, thus fulfilling their own desires. I'm not entirely sure what the endgame is... I believe you confirmed that if someone destroys all the mothercrystals it will cause a blight. Perhaps world domination or destruction is the ultimate aim of these people... and Clive is essentially, unknowingly manipulated to do their bidding.
@@sirdamned9272 My theory behind the hood figure pretty much line up with that exactly! I get the feeling that we will go on this quest trying to do the right thing only to find that we played into the hands of an even greater power, whoever that is (which knowing FF is probably a god or goddess). I also get the vibe that the hooded person is an agent of this god and is likely connected to the fallen civilization. I'm not entirely sure if its this one person, or an organization, but I do kinda get the feeling that everyone in the story is something of an unwitting pawn being used by the villain to achieve their ultimate goal.
@@thalwegg6535 Exactly! It would make perfect sense for the hooded figure to be doing the bidding of one of the gods, almost like a reverse scenario from what we get in FFXIV where it's the good guys doing the bidding of Hydaelyn to protect the world. Very excited to see where it all goes and I think you've hit the nail on the head pretty closely. Looking forward to future content!
The story is that Joshua is the most important character being the Dominant of the Phoenix. It is implied he died and it puts the story into place that Clive is trying to get revenge but at some point he finds out Joshua isn’t dead so he no longer seeks revenge. There’s a rumor that Clive accidentally killed Joshua some saying Clive can’t control it. And there’s a theory that there’s a puppet master pulling the strings controlling all the Dominants.
The icons in the Garuda section was explained in that it was part of the media build to allow them to test the system out ... but that you will not have all those abilities unlocked in the actual game when you get to the section and there may be differences in the sequence of event or even some events actually being somewhat different in the actual game
I can see most of this happening. I also think that the endgame is gonna be on the moon. Idk if that's gonna be in the very literal sense or not, but the moon has been a prominent background shot in a lot of scenes. There used to be a civilization that lived in the sky, so that's how I'm reasoning this out. It could be that the crystals fell to the Earth from the Moon when their civilization crumbled
I think that its entirely in the realm of possibility that the Moon or space in general will be involved with the endgame story given Yoshi Ps history as well as the like you said theyve been showing the moon in a lot of shots, particularly the young Jill and Clive meeting.
I think the opening section will have some Joshua gameplay, we see ourselves playing as the Phoenix against the “Black Ifrit” that’s mentioned. This is probably after playing the Ducal tournament, which will very likely be the tutorial section.
While I can't argue with your theory, I think it makes more sense to destroy the crystalline dominions crystal last, as it seems like a more egalitarian/ less expansionary country, and likely a place you can visit safely. Wouldn't make sense to snuff it out first, if its a safe place. I have nothing to back this up though.
You know after the media event a couple weeks back I think it's actually possible that we visit the crystalline dominion mothercrystal first but don't destroy it as at this point it doesn't seem like benedikta puts us on that path. Maybe we just go there looking for the dominant and then come back later after we've started our quest to destroy the mother crystals. I will say originally I was with you too. My gut tells me the dominion has secrets and secrets like those usually are saved for endgame.
That'd be a cool level for sure! I do think there is obviously something up with the giant hole in the map and it being an underwater level is a definite possibility.
On a macro scale, I do think and like the way you arrange the events and mapping the possible paths but it will be crazy if that is only like 1/3 of the game 😂. Also thank you for addressing those leaks as they are guesses mostly with some datamine info to legitimise it and quite a few who read it treat it like it is true due to FF15 incident.
5:01 new footage shows Clive fights this guy dubbed 'Tiamat', who is the leader of the small imperial task force. I think Clive somehow discovers that Tiamat was involved with the murder of Joshua and is that man you see twirling his sword in the flashback sequence > hence leading to Clive killing the group of imperial troops around him and duelling Tiamat - thus beginning his revenge.
Yeah we've known about tiamat for a while now, the footage just confirmed it beyond a shadow of a doubt. Also it almost certainly has to do with Jill as shivas dominant since we know that's their goal at the start. It's likely Clive recognizes Jill last minute and then betrays his commander who is the only other man left in their squad (we've seen pretty much everyone else die)
this is just an idea but what if clive is originally from the iron kingdom, where they execute their dominants out of fear, maybe they see ifrit as a threat to the mothercrystals. perhaps clive's mother is from the iron kingdom making him and joshua half siblings where clive got his eikon from his mystery mother and joshua got phoenix from his father just a thought tho.
Thanks for checking out my other videos! I could maybe see Jill in the opening if it does open with a scene later in the game. But if it's more of a prequel like i mention in the video then I think it'd be unlikely just because she won't have her eikon powers yet, so it'd have to be more cinematic, which is possible, but I'd think they'd want to start with a bang.
@@thalwegg6535 for sure man! I love, LOVE to speculate, like a lot of other people do, but what happens a lot of the time is that people, in their excitement, start connecting things or just letting their imagination get the better of them. So what you end up with is something way too far fetched and just implausible to anyone other than the person who came up with it. It’ll be too grand or too dependent on a certain series of events happening, in a certain kind of out there way, in order to come to the conclusion that the person has envisioned. What I think you do very well is use all of the footage and other little tidbits to create a very logical and well thought out narrative, supported by photographic or video evidence, all without over reaching. I appreciate you making these because it helps in my wait for the game. Really, well done man!
@@thalwegg6535 oh! I forgot to say the reason I thought it could be Jill was only because of a screenshot from PAX where she was in the center of the shot, with Clive not visible. So, I have no real reason or any sort of evidence for that, it was just a thought. I’d prefer it be something really punchy in the beginning as well. 😁
@@mhiggs8001 Thank you very much! Actually the whole reason I started making videos was because I felt like there was a ton of speculation out there about a ton of things, and somewhere in the heap of speculation were things that were proven wrong just by dissecting the trailers. So since no one else was making like really grounded and rational predictions about the narrative I figured I would just make it since I had already pieced it together!
I did not know that! Given Maehiro's history with Matsuno and working on the Tactics games and ff12 that is believable. I have to imagine it'd be more of a reference than confirmation that this is Ivalice since Ivalice was Matsuno's baby, but you never know!
I would love to see the video but after giving it a tought i can't see it might be spoiled and i have waited too long for this game to let that happen sorry
As a FFXIV player, it's not going to surprise me if what they've shown in the trailers is a massive red herring.😅 Yoshi-P loves to screw with people. Sometimes, a voice over will be shown with a character when the character shown has nothing to do with the quote ingame. Same with significant events. He also likes to leave out of the trailers a character, or characters, that will have a massive impact on the story. Sometimes it's a boss, and sometimes it's a friend. I look forward to seeing how close this lands.🙂
I'm actually thinking of making an update video, but to answer your question I think the previews pretty much confirmed a bunch of stuff such as there being 0 armor customization which is the foundation for this whole video, presented new information like Clive absorbing the Eikons from the dominants, and did somewhat break my theory on map travel. I actually think it's very likely that I was right about Cid taking us back to his hideout in that mountain range, what I got wrong about is I assumed we set out from there and had a more linear journey traveling from new place to new place. Instead it seems that it's a more hub and spoke model where we go back to the hub after we do our missions. So it doesn't really change the order of events as I present them, but it does change some of my thoughts on open areas and story progression.
so we can use phoenix "stance" or phoenix base attacks but clive is the dominant of ifrit right? kinda weird he doesnt use ifrit base attacks or stance
Yep he's blessed by his brother at a young age and doesn't learn about the ifrit thing until later. We know the limit break form is clives half transformation like other dominants but we haven't seen him use ifrit abilities outside of his transformation.
I didn't forget the bed scene per se, it's just one of the many scenes that I cut to try to cut down on video length. If you want my thoughts that scene could either be a flashback or it could be taking place in the Iron Kingdom around the time of the Iron Kingdom/Waloed/Dhalmekia meeting since both Barnabus and Benedikta are there. That vagueness is kinda why I cut it though, right now it's really hard to place with any certainty where it is in the story, and knowing where it is doesn't really tell us a lot about the overarching story either.
I have to check out your newer videos, but from recent information I think you're completely dead on. More than likely the structure of the first third of the game will happen nearly in the same fashion, perhaps with some minor differences. The main thing I think, though, is that Cid probably dies pretty early on. Like, after the first crystal, even. Secondly, I think the outfit change is probably also partially Clive deciding to fully join Cids organization, with levels 10-20 being a sort of "trial" Clive does to see if he wants to work with them or not.
Yeah I know exactly what you're talking about with Cid, I'm still fence sitting as the scene while it looks bad isn't necessarily the death scene imo. I do think he probably dies in the front half of the game though based on another scene. But yeah I'm happy with my predictions so far, I think there's a couple other small things, like us actually playing as Joshua near the start, but really that was based on some interview question response that was pretty vague in terms of what it actually meant so I don't feel too bad about it. In terms of order of events I think I was dead on back then and it really holds up.
I accidentally wandered into this video so I'm here by accident. So I got to ask.... don't you guys want anything to be a surprise? Or enjoy experiencing it as you play? If you know the full story now doesn't it leave nothing to be discovered during gameplay?
If the plot is revealed in the trailers, it's not the audience's fault if they can put it together. I'd personally prefer if they'd leave the trailers more vague or only show the beginning.
Why is my feeling telling me that the hooded man is another Clive? Joshua is Pheonix and is Rebirth. Clive Joshua are brothers. Black Ifreet is from Hell. Ugh anyway someone stops me. Looks like there will be NG pluss or Replay a story from other's (the other Clive) perspective to save Joshua? We will see...I played FF14 for over 5 years, such complexity is their best storytelling.
How massive do you think the world as an entirety is? I mean they're saying it's not open world but not linear either. Ff7 remake midgar I thought would've been more exploration it just was more hallway scenes with detailed back grounds to give a good illusion of a large area, more so than ff10 did. I didn't play ff13, but from what I saw on how linear that is I hope with all the current gen tech ff16 allows us to explore SOMETHING. I mean I'm in the camp of people who like to explore hidden caves, luscious lands, waterways, find hidden treasures, do complex story depth side quests, find hidden supper bosses, speaking to npcs that have much detail and more content to bring to mysteries ans the story. Just so much to do. I hope ff16s world is huge and story alone like 50 hours? Side content andother 3
So I'm kinda where the devs say they are. That is that it's more of a "wide linear" world. So there will be meaningful side quests and side content to go with that but nothing truly "open world" feeling. This would make it similar to like new god of war if you've played that game which is wider than say FF13 (ignoring gran pulse) but narrower than ff15. Also with them recently saying that most of the game will almost have a mission format with a central hub that makes it a little different than ffX where you basically went on a linear path through the world to all the shrines. Im not sure how much exploration there will be but im sure there will be some, theyve said that there wont be any purely optional dungeons which i have mixed feelings about, but I'll wait to see the implementation before passing judgement. As for length we know the MSQ is about 35 hours long and the game if you do all the side content and the MSQ is about 80 hours so theres actually more side content than MSQ.
@thalwegg6535 what concerns me that you said they said is wide linear. I mean I understand they want more detail to the atmospheres but now they went from a hallway to a hallway and a half I mean this is next gen tech why cant they at least put some effort into exploration I can't stand paths that pull you along with nothing else. I mean that second third trailer that shows all the kingdoms and lands is just for eye candy not even exploration I mean the world map is probably small as hell in overall area. It's like seeing walmart in the distance but when going inside were limited to just the small pharmacy section. I mean I support the direction they're going because I'm a longtime fan of the series it's just that with next gen tech I thought they'd do better with a lively larger world to explore. 35 hours of msq isn't a lot is it? And is that including the supposed 11 hours of cutscenes or is that in addition bringing it to 46 hours?
@@kmikel3669 I think that "wide linear" has a lot of definitions. From what I can tell it will be a mix of very linear story focused segments ,such as the one shown in the recent gameplay preview at the castle, and larger open areas where things like hunts and side quests will likely take place. Remember that we've seen Clive on a Chocobo which to me means that if that can be used in these open areas that they will be a decent size and give some level of exploration and personally I'm fine with that. As for 35 hours that does include the 11 hours of cutscenes, but that is also if you focus solely on the main story and do nothing else. For reference GoW:R takes about 25 hours according to the internet so this is 40% longer than that. If the story has good pacing 35 hours can feel like A LOT of content. But we will see. The only games I can think of that are generally longer for just MSQ are your personas and xenoblades where they frankly have a lot of padding with gameplay (which is fine, I love both of those games)
@thalwegg6535 damn so 35 hours INCLUDES the 11 hours of cutscenes? So ONLY 24 hours of gameplay and story? I might be sounding really negative but I'm assuming gone are the days of rpgs in ff taking 60 to 80 LONG hours to get ALL of the story? I never played God of War so I'm not certain how the world would look, I'll check you tube video to get an idea. I'm assuming the way others described God of war linear world is like ff10? I hope not. However what stood out is when you stated how we'll be using chocobos, which I saw in that trailer. I doubt they would allow us to use a chocobo for just running 10 yards up the field so that makes sense there are SOME areas that could be explorable or at least hopefully.
@@kmikel3669 god of war is very linear in level design, wich is mainly focused on jumping, climbing and puzzle solving. In fact there is no exploration in God of War, except discovering new areas by solving puzzles or accepting quests. Since they said there will be no hidden areas, i tend to think there will be more open areas and wider than in God of War: the fact that there is no climbing mechanics and such FORCES you to design levels wider than in God of War. Also, very differently from God of War, there should be more cities or village to explore with npc life from what they showed, wich God of War was really lacking. 35 hours is standard/high for this kind of games, i remember i finished Horizon in less than 20 hours, including some exploration and sidequesting. Last of Us in even less, and it was a story driven game too. So if its 35 hours if you follow straight the story without any deviation, any area exploring for treasure nor even talking about sidequests, then it is not low amount of hours for sure. I remember it took me 40 hours to finish Final Fantasy 9, but that was by doing ALL the sidequests and exploring every single area, talking to every single breathing npc, and it was a very slower combat system too (wich takes time). Final Fantasy X was very long, but linear from the level design prospective, and it required grinding too (wich increase the time for completing standard story!!!), instead in this game they said there is no mandatory grinding, they focused in the story all you need to complete the game, wich makes 35 hours A LOT. Off course having 45 hours of sidequest can help you slowing your game completation if you are so afraid, but i would suggest to focus on story game on the first run! Thats what the devs suggested aniway!!
My personal theory is that the final Eikon is the true form of Ifrit after obtaining all the summons and after some sort of significant event. His final form could end up being something like Diabolos or some sort of new figure. I believe this is supported by the mural painting in the trailer and the Amano art. All other summons are confirmed in the artwork, aside from Leviathan, who we've yet seen depicted in gameplay. The topmost figure in the mural and the central figure in the Amano artwork do seem to depict an Ifrit sort of appearance, however, transformed in some type of way.
Yeah, the mural figure and and Amano box art definitely point to a very significant Eikon (or maybe just god?) that we haven't seen yet and that will likely pop up end game. It's definitely possible that it's some sort of evolved Ifrit and I'm definitely excited to see for myself!
pretty much what i thought
@Thalwegg In whatever way it plays out, I can't see it being anything other than somehow related to Ifrit. Every other Eikon depicted is easily recognizable other than this figure. The only way I could see otherwise would be if there were also a "normal" Ifrit in the artworks in addition to this figure, but that's obviously not the case.
To help support this theory, as far as we know, Ifrit is the only duplicate elemental Eikon. In the first trailer, it's made pretty clear that Ifrit shouldn't exist at least as far as the various character's understanding goes. There's definitely something peculiar with Ifrit in general that leads me to believe he's somehow the catalyst that will lead to the awakening of this god-like figure.
@@matthewabsher2764 For sure. I mean to go even further it appears that there are potentially 2 ifrits (if its not just clive hallucinating) and Clive is likely the only person who can obtain new eikon powers like we saw in the most recent press event.
As for the duplicated elementals yeah I agree, I just have to wonder what is the Earth Eikon that we've seen a couple of times now, primarily in the Revenge trailer. It could be some rampaging form of Titan maybe, but it could potentially be a second earth eikon which would complicate things even further.
But I would agree, I think its very clear with Clive being the center of this story that that unknown Eikon has to in some way be related to Clive and by extension Ifrit.
The figure in the Center of the mural is Diabolos most likely. Probably an evolved/final form because the base form looks more like a basic demon/devil.
I saw this video pop up on my recommended around when you posted it, I ignored it completely because this wasn’t even something I wanted to speculate or piece together, I wanted to experience it all on my own, but I never forgot about this video. I waited until I beat the game and came back just to see what you got right, and with everything we were given you did a great job pinpointing a lot of things down. Of course you got some stuff wrong, but it would be impossible to get it all right. All in all great job and great video👍🏻
Thanks man, I myself want to come back and rewatch eventually. Right now life is so busy for me I don't have the time to make videos, but I beat the game and have a lot of thoughts I want to share. One those those videos I make might just be me rewatching my old content and trying to figure out what I got right and wrong. Or maybe make it a livestream.
I'd say the logic is sound. It's a bit front-loaded, which is to be epected because that's where all our information is. So I expect there's probably a few more main story beats and deviating journeys, between say Dalmekia and returning to Sanbrique, probably a little more time spent in the southern continent.
Yes there is a lot of unknowns, I think the largest is the time between the Garuda fight which we have now seen in the previews and the scene on the volcano in the Iron Kingdom. But I do agree basically everything after Hugo is a big ? other than maybe boss order since we have so little information. The levels indicate that the story move pretty fast at that point but with the game being a RPG there can be a lot of level variance so really who knows how much stuff they can shove in there.
That was a pretty good pitch for what the story may be, well done. The whole thing seems plausible to me!
Thank you!
Pretty good theory. The only thing I don't think will happen is working with Barnabas. In the Demo Cid makes it pretty clear that he is not a fan of Barnabas, and Benedikta basically says that Cid is betraying his kindness.
Yep! I noticed that too when watching the new material. I had thrown that out there as a theory as to how Clive gets on the path of destroying the mothercrystals but it definitely appears that I was wrong. Instead it does seem like an inadvertent common goal between the two parties. That definitely begs the question of why we are destroying the mothercrystals though.
Just think the hooded guy is Joshua in the future!
I completely missed the fact that Clive became enslaved, thanks for your insight!
Also, so far the story seems suspiciously simple to understand and straightforward, but this is a Final Fantasy game, I have the feeling the story will feature another layer of complexity and confusing plot points we're not aware of yet... I'm still convinced that the cloaked man might be Joshua from the future
I'm almost positive that the back half of the game will throw us for a loop. I agree though so far its been fairly easy to figure out what's going on at a macro scale. Though this totally ignore the micro stories and clues that they just aren't showing
A couple of things you said that I believe are confirmed false unless I misunderstood you:
- Clive doesn't transform into an Eikon to protect Joshua. Joshua is the Dominant of Phoenix, and transforms into Phoenix likely as a defense mechanism when cornered by the hooded figure. At this point in the story it is widely accepted that Clive isn't a Dominant. He was supposed to be the Dominant of Phoenix, but for some reason he wasn't and it instead ended up being Joshua. The reason Clive can use Phoenix powers in the early-game is he was given the Blessing of the Phoenix _by_ Joshua. In other words, the Ifrit we see in this scene has to be the person who killed Joshua (or had to have been working with/summoned by them).
- Joshua is assumed dead/killed by the assassins from what we know at this point in the story. While he does transform into Phoenix as a defense mechanism, it's likely that the Dominant of Ifrit kills him. It's not 100% certain that Joshua dies/he _could_ end up being alive, but Clive believes he was killed.
- Clive and Cid's trip to visit Benedikta isn't related to the Mother Crystal. They are there seeking out "the fire dominant," which has to be Ifrit... aka the person he suspects transformed into Ifrit and killed Joshua. They likely received a tip that Benedikta found, or knew the location of the Dominant or was working with them.
Great video by the way! It does sound like you got the order of events right and their trajectory of travel. You also revealed a lot of things I didn't yet know/wasn't aware of. All of this makes me very hyped for the game.
So on the first point, when I say that Clive transforms to protect Joshua I am theorizing that he might also transform into ifrit as well as the other hooded figure. We know that there are two ifrits and we know for sure that Clive is one of them. My theory revolves around the concept that sometimes the eikon itself is in control, not the dominant (or whatever clive really is) and that maybe Clive goes on a rampage and just doesn't remember. Looking back I had thought the scene at the end of dominance was clive punching the other ifrit attacking his brother but instead I think thats just from the two ifrit scene we saw in the revenge trailer. So in summary yeah I think youre right that its unlikely that Clive transforms here, but still possible.
Yes absolutely Clive thinks his brother was killed by Ifrit. We actually have seen when Joshua starts to transform when the phoenix tails sprout out of him after his fathers head is cut off. There's obviously some weird stuff going on with Joshua since we see a young version of him with Clive in the Revenge trailer as well but I also think its safe to say that the ifrit is who "killed" joshua and somehow clive saw him and remembers.
Yep this was something I was theorizing since I wasnt sure why we and Barnabus has the same objective and this video came out right before the gameplay dump. In retrospect yeah that's the reason we go to the castle where Bene is (you can check out my video going over the story of the gameplay preview where I discuss this more at length)
But yeah also with the gameplay dump the whole armor/brand theory is basically confirmed so I think the general order of events is pretty rock solid. I'm also excited to play the game in just a few months!
@@thalwegg6535 All makes perfect sense! Btw I have a theory (it's not _completely_ mine, moreso I've pieced together information gleaned from your video and also information from theories on Reddit). I think it lines up perfectly with what you described in the video, so I would really love to hear your thoughts on it:
To summarize it, I believe the hooded figures can control, manipulate, and/or summon Eikons... which also means the ability to manipulate the Dominants as well. I think these hooded figures are behind all of the destructive events that transpire in Valesthia, essentially manipulating the Dominants and world powers to cause Valisthea to go to war.
I believe they summoned an Ifrit and used him to kill Joshua (after Joshua transformed into Phoenix).
Then, when Clive makes it his mission to destroy the mothercrystals, I believe they realize that their goals are actually aligned with Clive's. When Clive is fighting Garuda, someone whispers to him telling him to awaken. I believe the voice we hear egging him on is the hooded figure who killed Joshua... essentially manipulating him to awaken, making it easier to accomplish his goal, thus fulfilling their own desires.
I'm not entirely sure what the endgame is... I believe you confirmed that if someone destroys all the mothercrystals it will cause a blight. Perhaps world domination or destruction is the ultimate aim of these people... and Clive is essentially, unknowingly manipulated to do their bidding.
@@sirdamned9272 My theory behind the hood figure pretty much line up with that exactly! I get the feeling that we will go on this quest trying to do the right thing only to find that we played into the hands of an even greater power, whoever that is (which knowing FF is probably a god or goddess). I also get the vibe that the hooded person is an agent of this god and is likely connected to the fallen civilization. I'm not entirely sure if its this one person, or an organization, but I do kinda get the feeling that everyone in the story is something of an unwitting pawn being used by the villain to achieve their ultimate goal.
@@thalwegg6535 Exactly! It would make perfect sense for the hooded figure to be doing the bidding of one of the gods, almost like a reverse scenario from what we get in FFXIV where it's the good guys doing the bidding of Hydaelyn to protect the world. Very excited to see where it all goes and I think you've hit the nail on the head pretty closely. Looking forward to future content!
The story is that Joshua is the most important character being the Dominant of the Phoenix.
It is implied he died and it puts the story into place that Clive is trying to get revenge but at some point he finds out Joshua isn’t dead so he no longer seeks revenge.
There’s a rumor that Clive accidentally killed Joshua some saying Clive can’t control it.
And there’s a theory that there’s a puppet master pulling the strings controlling all the Dominants.
The icons in the Garuda section was explained in that it was part of the media build to allow them to test the system out ... but that you will not have all those abilities unlocked in the actual game when you get to the section and there may be differences in the sequence of event or even some events actually being somewhat different in the actual game
Definetely interesting to watch these theories after playing the game. 👍
I can see most of this happening. I also think that the endgame is gonna be on the moon. Idk if that's gonna be in the very literal sense or not, but the moon has been a prominent background shot in a lot of scenes. There used to be a civilization that lived in the sky, so that's how I'm reasoning this out. It could be that the crystals fell to the Earth from the Moon when their civilization crumbled
I think that its entirely in the realm of possibility that the Moon or space in general will be involved with the endgame story given Yoshi Ps history as well as the like you said theyve been showing the moon in a lot of shots, particularly the young Jill and Clive meeting.
i think that's where Clive is fighting the other ifrit
Yeah, we do see plenty of the moon and the red satellite. Pretty suspect, if you ask me.
Yep, you're most likely correct in almost everything
I think the opening section will have some Joshua gameplay, we see ourselves playing as the Phoenix against the “Black Ifrit” that’s mentioned. This is probably after playing the Ducal tournament, which will very likely be the tutorial section.
While I can't argue with your theory, I think it makes more sense to destroy the crystalline dominions crystal last, as it seems like a more egalitarian/ less expansionary country, and likely a place you can visit safely. Wouldn't make sense to snuff it out first, if its a safe place. I have nothing to back this up though.
You know after the media event a couple weeks back I think it's actually possible that we visit the crystalline dominion mothercrystal first but don't destroy it as at this point it doesn't seem like benedikta puts us on that path. Maybe we just go there looking for the dominant and then come back later after we've started our quest to destroy the mother crystals.
I will say originally I was with you too. My gut tells me the dominion has secrets and secrets like those usually are saved for endgame.
Good stuff. I like this theory because it presents the events of the story in a reasonable order without giving too much of the juicy details away.
Thank you!
@@thalwegg6535 Of course, man, keep it up. XVI is gonna be something special.
In the beginning of the game we play as Joshua which was confirmed in the state of play footage
You will probably go to some sunken underwater kingdom in the vortex.
That'd be a cool level for sure! I do think there is obviously something up with the giant hole in the map and it being an underwater level is a definite possibility.
On a macro scale, I do think and like the way you arrange the events and mapping the possible paths but it will be crazy if that is only like 1/3 of the game 😂. Also thank you for addressing those leaks as they are guesses mostly with some datamine info to legitimise it and quite a few who read it treat it like it is true due to FF15 incident.
Incredible analysis. Subscribed.
Thank you!
I wonder if parts of this pull from X, where we find out a Dominant is just someone else’s Eikon, only existing as an Eikon
the collector's edition art reminded me of Zodiark, might be the last boss we face
5:01 new footage shows Clive fights this guy dubbed 'Tiamat', who is the leader of the small imperial task force. I think Clive somehow discovers that Tiamat was involved with the murder of Joshua and is that man you see twirling his sword in the flashback sequence > hence leading to Clive killing the group of imperial troops around him and duelling Tiamat - thus beginning his revenge.
Yeah we've known about tiamat for a while now, the footage just confirmed it beyond a shadow of a doubt. Also it almost certainly has to do with Jill as shivas dominant since we know that's their goal at the start. It's likely Clive recognizes Jill last minute and then betrays his commander who is the only other man left in their squad (we've seen pretty much everyone else die)
this is just an idea but what if clive is originally from the iron kingdom, where they execute their dominants out of fear, maybe they see ifrit as a threat to the mothercrystals. perhaps clive's mother is from the iron kingdom making him and joshua half siblings where clive got his eikon from his mystery mother and joshua got phoenix from his father just a thought tho.
Fun to revisit after the demo!
I think we play as Joshua in the beginning. I think I saw gameplay in one of the trailers.
Yeah I saw that too. If you want you can check out my latest video where I talk about it a bit.
@@thalwegg6535 you already know I did my boi
@@thalwegg6535 also my bad I didn’t realize this was an old vid I found your channel on my suggested so I thought it would be newer
Lol I’ve come back here after tour most recent video, I believe we may be playing as Jill in the beginning.
Thanks for checking out my other videos! I could maybe see Jill in the opening if it does open with a scene later in the game. But if it's more of a prequel like i mention in the video then I think it'd be unlikely just because she won't have her eikon powers yet, so it'd have to be more cinematic, which is possible, but I'd think they'd want to start with a bang.
@@thalwegg6535 for sure man! I love, LOVE to speculate, like a lot of other people do, but what happens a lot of the time is that people, in their excitement, start connecting things or just letting their imagination get the better of them. So what you end up with is something way too far fetched and just implausible to anyone other than the person who came up with it. It’ll be too grand or too dependent on a certain series of events happening, in a certain kind of out there way, in order to come to the conclusion that the person has envisioned. What I think you do very well is use all of the footage and other little tidbits to create a very logical and well thought out narrative, supported by photographic or video evidence, all without over reaching. I appreciate you making these because it helps in my wait for the game. Really, well done man!
@@thalwegg6535 oh! I forgot to say the reason I thought it could be Jill was only because of a screenshot from PAX where she was in the center of the shot, with Clive not visible. So, I have no real reason or any sort of evidence for that, it was just a thought. I’d prefer it be something really punchy in the beginning as well. 😁
@@mhiggs8001 Thank you very much! Actually the whole reason I started making videos was because I felt like there was a ton of speculation out there about a ton of things, and somewhere in the heap of speculation were things that were proven wrong just by dissecting the trailers. So since no one else was making like really grounded and rational predictions about the narrative I figured I would just make it since I had already pieced it together!
This is quality content! Good work boss!!
Yoshi P called, he said to put some spoiler warnings on this shit 🤣
Did you know rosaria is being said in ff12 too
I did not know that! Given Maehiro's history with Matsuno and working on the Tactics games and ff12 that is believable. I have to imagine it'd be more of a reference than confirmation that this is Ivalice since Ivalice was Matsuno's baby, but you never know!
I would love to see the video but after giving it a tought i can't see it might be spoiled and i have waited too long for this game to let that happen sorry
No problem at all! I completely understand wanting to go in blind, part of me wants to myself but obviously I can't help but dig.
We see the player using Phoenix vs Ifrit so they probably meant Joshua there.
As a FFXIV player, it's not going to surprise me if what they've shown in the trailers is a massive red herring.😅
Yoshi-P loves to screw with people. Sometimes, a voice over will be shown with a character when the character shown has nothing to do with the quote ingame. Same with significant events. He also likes to leave out of the trailers a character, or characters, that will have a massive impact on the story. Sometimes it's a boss, and sometimes it's a friend.
I look forward to seeing how close this lands.🙂
Alrighto that's 16 done and dusted onto 17 chaps.
So what do think about the new previews that was released on the 28 of Feb have they changed your theory significantly?
I'm actually thinking of making an update video, but to answer your question I think the previews pretty much confirmed a bunch of stuff such as there being 0 armor customization which is the foundation for this whole video, presented new information like Clive absorbing the Eikons from the dominants, and did somewhat break my theory on map travel. I actually think it's very likely that I was right about Cid taking us back to his hideout in that mountain range, what I got wrong about is I assumed we set out from there and had a more linear journey traveling from new place to new place. Instead it seems that it's a more hub and spoke model where we go back to the hub after we do our missions. So it doesn't really change the order of events as I present them, but it does change some of my thoughts on open areas and story progression.
Who's here after release?
👀
I feel like it might go stranger of paradise he’s the person he has been searching for all along I hope not tho
so we can use phoenix "stance" or phoenix base attacks but clive is the dominant of ifrit right? kinda weird he doesnt use ifrit base attacks or stance
Yep he's blessed by his brother at a young age and doesn't learn about the ifrit thing until later. We know the limit break form is clives half transformation like other dominants but we haven't seen him use ifrit abilities outside of his transformation.
What about that bed scene did you forget
I didn't forget the bed scene per se, it's just one of the many scenes that I cut to try to cut down on video length. If you want my thoughts that scene could either be a flashback or it could be taking place in the Iron Kingdom around the time of the Iron Kingdom/Waloed/Dhalmekia meeting since both Barnabus and Benedikta are there. That vagueness is kinda why I cut it though, right now it's really hard to place with any certainty where it is in the story, and knowing where it is doesn't really tell us a lot about the overarching story either.
I have to check out your newer videos, but from recent information I think you're completely dead on. More than likely the structure of the first third of the game will happen nearly in the same fashion, perhaps with some minor differences.
The main thing I think, though, is that Cid probably dies pretty early on. Like, after the first crystal, even. Secondly, I think the outfit change is probably also partially Clive deciding to fully join Cids organization, with levels 10-20 being a sort of "trial" Clive does to see if he wants to work with them or not.
Yeah I know exactly what you're talking about with Cid, I'm still fence sitting as the scene while it looks bad isn't necessarily the death scene imo. I do think he probably dies in the front half of the game though based on another scene.
But yeah I'm happy with my predictions so far, I think there's a couple other small things, like us actually playing as Joshua near the start, but really that was based on some interview question response that was pretty vague in terms of what it actually meant so I don't feel too bad about it. In terms of order of events I think I was dead on back then and it really holds up.
I accidentally wandered into this video so I'm here by accident. So I got to ask.... don't you guys want anything to be a surprise? Or enjoy experiencing it as you play? If you know the full story now doesn't it leave nothing to be discovered during gameplay?
is this your first time on youtube? it’s just fun theory videos…
If the plot is revealed in the trailers, it's not the audience's fault if they can put it together. I'd personally prefer if they'd leave the trailers more vague or only show the beginning.
Why is my feeling telling me that the hooded man is another Clive? Joshua is Pheonix and is Rebirth. Clive Joshua are brothers. Black Ifreet is from Hell. Ugh anyway someone stops me. Looks like there will be NG pluss or Replay a story from other's (the other Clive) perspective to save Joshua? We will see...I played FF14 for over 5 years, such complexity is their best storytelling.
red star is sus
Why are we obsessed with spoiling the story, we should at least keep the story elements fresh so the game would be more interesting
Probably half of this is true, but there will be twists.
We still have Leviathan to contest will. And there is the [redacted]
How massive do you think the world as an entirety is? I mean they're saying it's not open world but not linear either. Ff7 remake midgar I thought would've been more exploration it just was more hallway scenes with detailed back grounds to give a good illusion of a large area, more so than ff10 did. I didn't play ff13, but from what I saw on how linear that is I hope with all the current gen tech ff16 allows us to explore SOMETHING. I mean I'm in the camp of people who like to explore hidden caves, luscious lands, waterways, find hidden treasures, do complex story depth side quests, find hidden supper bosses, speaking to npcs that have much detail and more content to bring to mysteries ans the story. Just so much to do. I hope ff16s world is huge and story alone like 50 hours? Side content andother 3
So I'm kinda where the devs say they are. That is that it's more of a "wide linear" world. So there will be meaningful side quests and side content to go with that but nothing truly "open world" feeling. This would make it similar to like new god of war if you've played that game which is wider than say FF13 (ignoring gran pulse) but narrower than ff15. Also with them recently saying that most of the game will almost have a mission format with a central hub that makes it a little different than ffX where you basically went on a linear path through the world to all the shrines. Im not sure how much exploration there will be but im sure there will be some, theyve said that there wont be any purely optional dungeons which i have mixed feelings about, but I'll wait to see the implementation before passing judgement. As for length we know the MSQ is about 35 hours long and the game if you do all the side content and the MSQ is about 80 hours so theres actually more side content than MSQ.
@thalwegg6535 what concerns me that you said they said is wide linear. I mean I understand they want more detail to the atmospheres but now they went from a hallway to a hallway and a half I mean this is next gen tech why cant they at least put some effort into exploration I can't stand paths that pull you along with nothing else. I mean that second third trailer that shows all the kingdoms and lands is just for eye candy not even exploration I mean the world map is probably small as hell in overall area. It's like seeing walmart in the distance but when going inside were limited to just the small pharmacy section. I mean I support the direction they're going because I'm a longtime fan of the series it's just that with next gen tech I thought they'd do better with a lively larger world to explore. 35 hours of msq isn't a lot is it? And is that including the supposed 11 hours of cutscenes or is that in addition bringing it to 46 hours?
@@kmikel3669 I think that "wide linear" has a lot of definitions. From what I can tell it will be a mix of very linear story focused segments ,such as the one shown in the recent gameplay preview at the castle, and larger open areas where things like hunts and side quests will likely take place. Remember that we've seen Clive on a Chocobo which to me means that if that can be used in these open areas that they will be a decent size and give some level of exploration and personally I'm fine with that. As for 35 hours that does include the 11 hours of cutscenes, but that is also if you focus solely on the main story and do nothing else. For reference GoW:R takes about 25 hours according to the internet so this is 40% longer than that. If the story has good pacing 35 hours can feel like A LOT of content. But we will see. The only games I can think of that are generally longer for just MSQ are your personas and xenoblades where they frankly have a lot of padding with gameplay (which is fine, I love both of those games)
@thalwegg6535 damn so 35 hours INCLUDES the 11 hours of cutscenes? So ONLY 24 hours of gameplay and story? I might be sounding really negative but I'm assuming gone are the days of rpgs in ff taking 60 to 80 LONG hours to get ALL of the story? I never played God of War so I'm not certain how the world would look, I'll check you tube video to get an idea. I'm assuming the way others described God of war linear world is like ff10? I hope not. However what stood out is when you stated how we'll be using chocobos, which I saw in that trailer. I doubt they would allow us to use a chocobo for just running 10 yards up the field so that makes sense there are SOME areas that could be explorable or at least hopefully.
@@kmikel3669 god of war is very linear in level design, wich is mainly focused on jumping, climbing and puzzle solving. In fact there is no exploration in God of War, except discovering new areas by solving puzzles or accepting quests. Since they said there will be no hidden areas, i tend to think there will be more open areas and wider than in God of War: the fact that there is no climbing mechanics and such FORCES you to design levels wider than in God of War. Also, very differently from God of War, there should be more cities or village to explore with npc life from what they showed, wich God of War was really lacking. 35 hours is standard/high for this kind of games, i remember i finished Horizon in less than 20 hours, including some exploration and sidequesting. Last of Us in even less, and it was a story driven game too. So if its 35 hours if you follow straight the story without any deviation, any area exploring for treasure nor even talking about sidequests, then it is not low amount of hours for sure. I remember it took me 40 hours to finish Final Fantasy 9, but that was by doing ALL the sidequests and exploring every single area, talking to every single breathing npc, and it was a very slower combat system too (wich takes time). Final Fantasy X was very long, but linear from the level design prospective, and it required grinding too (wich increase the time for completing standard story!!!), instead in this game they said there is no mandatory grinding, they focused in the story all you need to complete the game, wich makes 35 hours A LOT. Off course having 45 hours of sidequest can help you slowing your game completation if you are so afraid, but i would suggest to focus on story game on the first run! Thats what the devs suggested aniway!!
you should watch final fantasy peasant - same thing but from the mind of a 6 year old
Lol are you secretly a Dev? Sounds all very plausible to me!
I wish! Then I wouldnt have to wait 4 months to play it like everyone else lol. But thank you for the compliment.
thanks, no thanks