I honestly would take these rereleases over 90% of the remakes out there, it’s the same game but WAY better, persona 5 went from an 8/10 base game to a 10/10 thanks to Royal, SMT 5 went from 7/10 base game and 9/10 with vengeance, I don’t know why people are more than happy to pay full price for more pixels but would lose their mind if a game has more content, I will always take content over more pixels.
The fact that Playstation players are not able to upgrade their P5R ps4 version to ps5 version is screaming nothing but greed for me. So now you have to buy the whole game again on ps5 just to be able to play 60fps. Like come on Atlus as greedy as Square is at least they let you upgrade FF7R from ps4 to ps5 for free…
In a slight counter to the square argument, the only reason square even did that was because they made a ps5 exclusive DLC for ff7remake that obviously they wanted to sell. Then add in the fact that the other 2 direct sequels will also require a ps5 and I think it's pretty clear that they didnt just give a free upgrade out of the goodness of their heart. You did make me google how many games have done free upgrades and it was surprisingly way more than I thought, so I will concede that you have a point and it isnt totally unheard of in the industry at large.
@@thalwegg6535 Appreciate the reply bro! Honestly I wouldn’t mind paying them $10 for a ps5 upgrade just like how Naughty Dog charge their ps5 release. I even bought the original P5 on my ps4 aswell because i love their games! So i guess it’s just sad to see Atlus treating their fans like this :/
Hey that was a great video man! But I have to say I don't agree with the conclusion, regardless if Atlus would price their DLC as more than 60$, I think 30$ is exactly the value that Royal provides over base P5. I for one am really glad they're stepping away from the re-release strategy and focusing on DLC. I'd rather just buy DLC for a game I own than buy a whole new game that's mostly the same. Also I'd rather they focus on new projects than constant re-releases.
Thank you for providing your perspective. Obviouisly we have different opinions on the value of the added content which is fine. One thing we can agree on though is that it would be better if they took the effort they put into rereleases and spent it on new games. Just unfortunately all companies at this point do DLC to try to get some easy money so idk if that reality will come anytime soon.
personally the main reason i prefer rereleases than dlc is physical copies. if we didn’t get rereleases we wouldn’t get a physical copy that contains the full definitive experience on a disc/cartridge, instead id have a copy that a large part of the experience is locked behind a digital store front. of course the best case scenario would be to offer both dlc and definitive physical options but in a world where it’s one or the other id pick rereleases.
Yeah that was a sentiment that I did miss in this video that someone else pointed out too. As someone who has been playing on PC for a long time physical media has unfortunately become almost a foreign concept, but I absolutely agree from both a preservation and ownership perspective having a physical copy is huge.
I personally don't mind the rereleases. Compared to other gaming industry norms ,rereleasing seems like nothing . Considering the fact that it's a dlc and main game integrated like you said. I'm a huge fan of smt and by buying the rerelease I'm hoping to encourage more smt games to come out .
Personally, both. They deserved all the hate for releasing the "complete" version of a game after the original was either undercooked or intentionally left barebones. However, the re-releases are genuinely good quality products that deserve the praise they get. I won't be touching Metamorph because of this unless someone else buys it.
@@tespenkr9924 see in my eyes I wouldn't say they intentionally leave the games barebones or unfinished with this idea in mind that they'll fix it in the re-release. I'm not sure if you watched the whole video but I have a lengthy section on it that I think is pretty compelling so instead of typing an essay you can go watch that if you're interested. Regarding metaphor I think it'll be interesting to see what they do. Rumor has it they're pivoting to DLC because of Sega. With that said as of right now they haven't mentioned a dlc season pass which I have to assume they will make if they're going dlc. I would say if they announce a season pass you're good to buy the game earlier because I doubt then they'll do a re-release.
The real issue with rereleases is that they take from the hype of a new game. When persona 6 drops I don’t even want to get it just so I don’t have to buy the game twice or feel like I missed content. If I end up getting spoiled on the game while I wait for P6R I’m not even going to want the new release. After seeing Xenoblade, a smaller jrpg, drop an entire new game as dlc along with challenges and new combat classes for the base game for $30 twice I believe persona can do it too.
This is honestly I think the #1 reason why they should move away from rereleases more than anything else. While personally I think they present good value when looking at the industry at large, and allow for them to do things that other developers dont do. I have to admit that it seems like a pretty common sentiment that people are now just waiting to buy the game once the rerelease comes. At that point Atlus is really only hurting their own bottom line and making it less likely theyll even have the money to do a rerelease. While I personally prefer rereleases for the reasons I state in the video I think I just have to accept that it probably isnt the best buisness decision in the current gaming market.
Expansions are the way forward imo. If atlus want big money they can just make a season pass with 4 stages, two major expansions and then rerelease the pack all together as a "complete"/royal edition two years after the initial release with everything baked in and maybe a couple additional skins or something for 70 dollars. Boom they get people spending 100 dollars at launch cus they want the expansion stuff and they get the late adopters 2 years down the line. Then since they're releasing in waves they can pick up additional sales for a longer more consistent period of time. It makes the most sense logistically and I think that's what the industry has known for a while yet atlus are late to the punch.
Speaking on the quality of DLC, I think it can still be high. I think two story DLCs would be good and then maybe some challenge mode with a new area and a super boss. My best case scenario would be one of the stories being a past tense backstory that gives more exposition on one of the characters, maybe not a main party member, could be a villain. Then for the second dlc it'd be an epilogue with a slight time skip or something where you can see what the characters are doing etc etc
@@anonwalkerr I think youre right on the money and I also think that Atlus should probably move onto a DLC model. I think from a buisness perspective it is just the best way forward for them in the current environment. With that said sure they could theoretically execute changes to the same level they did in Royal, but I do think DLC inherently incentives added content that can be played without needing a new save. Because of that I do think that if atlus did move to a DLC model we would likely never get upgrades to the same degree we do with rereleases. As I kind of echo at the end of the video that doesnt necessarily mean the DLC will be worse mind you. Just different. And really I think I would have to see what kind of DLC Atlus would make before really saying one way or the other if I prefer the rereleases of DLC personally.
I know that this video might be controversial but please keep the comments civil. Feel free to say your opinion, but dont attack others or attack me. Thank you.
I think overhated, because the re-releases are pretty big updates that do add to the value of a game people already think is very good. With DLC, it would just be boring added episode content to me. And no major changes to the base games because they can't work on much of the base game and have to focus on new content.
The fact that they basically released a beta version then later charge again for the final product is not a good look. You actually get punished for being a super fan. You could have potentially paid 3x on PS to have P5R 60fps. SMT V already had many flaws, but the fact that they dont have autosaves in 2024 is honestly the biggest joke. This is a feature available 2 decades ago. Length can be a good thing, but when 1/3 of the game is the same repetitive boring actions, its not. Most of this can be said for lots of jrpg, but not a valid excuse. Just because someone else commited a crime, doesn't mean you also should.
I actually agree on the autosave thing. This video wasnt really a review of SMTVV but the fact that they added saving anywhere but didnt add autosaves is baffling to me. There is no reason not to now. But at least saving anywhere was a step in the right direction. Now I dont believe that the original games are the beta versions. As I touch on in the video I think you can extend this argument to a lot of games. Was The Witcher 3 the beta version before blood and wine released? Im pretty sure you could buy both now for a fraction of the original cost too. The reality is that super fans get screwed over pretty much always. You will buy a game for full price and 6 months later itll probably be on sale for half off. I think the only real way to gauge the practice is to try to evaluate if the added content in the rerelease is worth the $60 asking price. I would argue to SMTVV and P5R it is, mostly because if you took the changes and priced them out as DLC it would probably cost about the same, if not more. Would I say DLC in general is overpriced for what youre buying when comparing to a new game? Yes. Can I fault Atlus when the rest of the industry does the same thing? I dont think so. And I guess that is the crux of the video and of my opinion. The funny thing is, and I dont mention this in the video I dont think, is that I would probably agree that Atlus should stop doing definitive editions not because I think theyre bad value, but because they have such a bad perception. Obviously they arent popular and they really probably shouldnt keep doing them. Itll be interesting to see if metaphor refantazio does it or not.
You are forgetting that years from now DLC becomes inaccessible on some games leaving players with a worse version of a beloved title and not to mention Atlus themselves aren't beta testing but improving games that they already released. You can only claim they punish superfans when it came to SMTV and Vengeance but P5 vanilla was pretty good. They just came up with new ideas and made it even better. Rereleases is better than the trash practice of modern DLC. KH3 Remind should have just been a KH3 final remix release scenario like many wanted honestly.
@@dave9515 Yeah I go over it in the video pretty hard because I do think for sure that saying it's just a beta is flat out wrong. Its just budget and time constraints love it or hate it. Also like I said if you put more money into it I think literally any game on planet earth could be improved. Ive never really thought about the DLC becoming unavailable after the store shuts down though. DLC being digital only is actually a really good argument for rereleases
@@thalwegg6535 Yeah and it needs to be talked about more honestly because its frightening how many people don't have a grasp on the reality of DLC. all the people who preach against digital games then buy digital DLC and enjoy said digital DLC. It comes off as very hypocritical to me as well those like this. When you purchase DLC you don't own the dlc ever because its digital so it can disappear whenever a company wants it to. Its a serious issue that's only gonna hit people hard in the future once they have an old game they want to replay and then realize the DLC that improved the game is unavailable so now they miss a massive portion of story content and QOL updates.
@@thalwegg6535 Maybe calling them a beta is too much, but Atlus and SMT are not comparable to each other, both in terms of business practices and the quality of products they deliver. You might have got the beta, pay extra for the DLC, but you don’t need to buy the whole game again, DLCs are separated. You get the next gen update for free, instead of paying again to have 60fps. Keep in mind that this game was released in 2015 and still receive a lot of technical improvements 8+ years later. Anyone who even has half of this expectation would be disappointed with P5R which released 4 years after.
Definitely overhated. DLC is trash and as we saw with Reload DLC is so much worse than a rerelease. with DLC you might never get to enjoy the good stuff in the future if you end up having to rebuy the game and install it fresh on a new console. With a rerelease you know you are getting the full experience with all the QOL additions and new content. DLC is a scam not rereleases. DLC is essentially paying to not own a piece of content and basically be guaranteed to never see again in the future. Sales also speak louder than words so ATLUS shouldn't stop just because of parts of their fandom complaining about getting a reason to revisit an old product again with a fresh coat of paint that also helps preserve a game better.
I honestly would take these rereleases over 90% of the remakes out there, it’s the same game but WAY better, persona 5 went from an 8/10 base game to a 10/10 thanks to Royal, SMT 5 went from 7/10 base game and 9/10 with vengeance, I don’t know why people are more than happy to pay full price for more pixels but would lose their mind if a game has more content, I will always take content over more pixels.
I agree with you 100%
The fact that Playstation players are not able to upgrade their P5R ps4 version to ps5 version is screaming nothing but greed for me. So now you have to buy the whole game again on ps5 just to be able to play 60fps.
Like come on Atlus as greedy as Square is at least they let you upgrade FF7R from ps4 to ps5 for free…
In a slight counter to the square argument, the only reason square even did that was because they made a ps5 exclusive DLC for ff7remake that obviously they wanted to sell. Then add in the fact that the other 2 direct sequels will also require a ps5 and I think it's pretty clear that they didnt just give a free upgrade out of the goodness of their heart.
You did make me google how many games have done free upgrades and it was surprisingly way more than I thought, so I will concede that you have a point and it isnt totally unheard of in the industry at large.
@@thalwegg6535 Appreciate the reply bro! Honestly I wouldn’t mind paying them $10 for a ps5 upgrade just like how Naughty Dog charge their ps5 release. I even bought the original P5 on my ps4 aswell because i love their games! So i guess it’s just sad to see Atlus treating their fans like this :/
Hey that was a great video man! But I have to say I don't agree with the conclusion, regardless if Atlus would price their DLC as more than 60$, I think 30$ is exactly the value that Royal provides over base P5. I for one am really glad they're stepping away from the re-release strategy and focusing on DLC. I'd rather just buy DLC for a game I own than buy a whole new game that's mostly the same. Also I'd rather they focus on new projects than constant re-releases.
Thank you for providing your perspective. Obviouisly we have different opinions on the value of the added content which is fine.
One thing we can agree on though is that it would be better if they took the effort they put into rereleases and spent it on new games. Just unfortunately all companies at this point do DLC to try to get some easy money so idk if that reality will come anytime soon.
personally the main reason i prefer rereleases than dlc is physical copies. if we didn’t get rereleases we wouldn’t get a physical copy that contains the full definitive experience on a disc/cartridge, instead id have a copy that a large part of the experience is locked behind a digital store front. of course the best case scenario would be to offer both dlc and definitive physical options but in a world where it’s one or the other id pick rereleases.
Yeah that was a sentiment that I did miss in this video that someone else pointed out too. As someone who has been playing on PC for a long time physical media has unfortunately become almost a foreign concept, but I absolutely agree from both a preservation and ownership perspective having a physical copy is huge.
I personally don't mind the rereleases. Compared to other gaming industry norms ,rereleasing seems like nothing . Considering the fact that it's a dlc and main game integrated like you said. I'm a huge fan of smt and by buying the rerelease I'm hoping to encourage more smt games to come out .
Personally, both.
They deserved all the hate for releasing the "complete" version of a game after the original was either undercooked or intentionally left barebones.
However, the re-releases are genuinely good quality products that deserve the praise they get.
I won't be touching Metamorph because of this unless someone else buys it.
@@tespenkr9924 see in my eyes I wouldn't say they intentionally leave the games barebones or unfinished with this idea in mind that they'll fix it in the re-release. I'm not sure if you watched the whole video but I have a lengthy section on it that I think is pretty compelling so instead of typing an essay you can go watch that if you're interested.
Regarding metaphor I think it'll be interesting to see what they do. Rumor has it they're pivoting to DLC because of Sega. With that said as of right now they haven't mentioned a dlc season pass which I have to assume they will make if they're going dlc. I would say if they announce a season pass you're good to buy the game earlier because I doubt then they'll do a re-release.
The real issue with rereleases is that they take from the hype of a new game. When persona 6 drops I don’t even want to get it just so I don’t have to buy the game twice or feel like I missed content. If I end up getting spoiled on the game while I wait for P6R I’m not even going to want the new release. After seeing Xenoblade, a smaller jrpg, drop an entire new game as dlc along with challenges and new combat classes for the base game for $30 twice I believe persona can do it too.
This is honestly I think the #1 reason why they should move away from rereleases more than anything else. While personally I think they present good value when looking at the industry at large, and allow for them to do things that other developers dont do. I have to admit that it seems like a pretty common sentiment that people are now just waiting to buy the game once the rerelease comes. At that point Atlus is really only hurting their own bottom line and making it less likely theyll even have the money to do a rerelease.
While I personally prefer rereleases for the reasons I state in the video I think I just have to accept that it probably isnt the best buisness decision in the current gaming market.
Another banger of a video from thalwegg
Thank you
Expansions are the way forward imo. If atlus want big money they can just make a season pass with 4 stages, two major expansions and then rerelease the pack all together as a "complete"/royal edition two years after the initial release with everything baked in and maybe a couple additional skins or something for 70 dollars.
Boom they get people spending 100 dollars at launch cus they want the expansion stuff and they get the late adopters 2 years down the line. Then since they're releasing in waves they can pick up additional sales for a longer more consistent period of time. It makes the most sense logistically and I think that's what the industry has known for a while yet atlus are late to the punch.
Speaking on the quality of DLC, I think it can still be high. I think two story DLCs would be good and then maybe some challenge mode with a new area and a super boss.
My best case scenario would be one of the stories being a past tense backstory that gives more exposition on one of the characters, maybe not a main party member, could be a villain. Then for the second dlc it'd be an epilogue with a slight time skip or something where you can see what the characters are doing etc etc
@@anonwalkerr I think youre right on the money and I also think that Atlus should probably move onto a DLC model. I think from a buisness perspective it is just the best way forward for them in the current environment.
With that said sure they could theoretically execute changes to the same level they did in Royal, but I do think DLC inherently incentives added content that can be played without needing a new save. Because of that I do think that if atlus did move to a DLC model we would likely never get upgrades to the same degree we do with rereleases.
As I kind of echo at the end of the video that doesnt necessarily mean the DLC will be worse mind you. Just different. And really I think I would have to see what kind of DLC Atlus would make before really saying one way or the other if I prefer the rereleases of DLC personally.
honestly the re-release is better than DLC.
mostly for physical copies, something that unfortunately PC just doesn't have nowadays.
I know that this video might be controversial but please keep the comments civil. Feel free to say your opinion, but dont attack others or attack me. Thank you.
I think overhated, because the re-releases are pretty big updates that do add to the value of a game people already think is very good. With DLC, it would just be boring added episode content to me. And no major changes to the base games because they can't work on much of the base game and have to focus on new content.
@@heroicgangster9981 yeah that is where I'm at too.
The fact that they basically released a beta version then later charge again for the final product is not a good look.
You actually get punished for being a super fan. You could have potentially paid 3x on PS to have P5R 60fps.
SMT V already had many flaws, but the fact that they dont have autosaves in 2024 is honestly the biggest joke. This is a feature available 2 decades ago.
Length can be a good thing, but when 1/3 of the game is the same repetitive boring actions, its not.
Most of this can be said for lots of jrpg, but not a valid excuse. Just because someone else commited a crime, doesn't mean you also should.
I actually agree on the autosave thing. This video wasnt really a review of SMTVV but the fact that they added saving anywhere but didnt add autosaves is baffling to me. There is no reason not to now. But at least saving anywhere was a step in the right direction.
Now I dont believe that the original games are the beta versions. As I touch on in the video I think you can extend this argument to a lot of games. Was The Witcher 3 the beta version before blood and wine released? Im pretty sure you could buy both now for a fraction of the original cost too. The reality is that super fans get screwed over pretty much always. You will buy a game for full price and 6 months later itll probably be on sale for half off. I think the only real way to gauge the practice is to try to evaluate if the added content in the rerelease is worth the $60 asking price. I would argue to SMTVV and P5R it is, mostly because if you took the changes and priced them out as DLC it would probably cost about the same, if not more. Would I say DLC in general is overpriced for what youre buying when comparing to a new game? Yes. Can I fault Atlus when the rest of the industry does the same thing? I dont think so. And I guess that is the crux of the video and of my opinion.
The funny thing is, and I dont mention this in the video I dont think, is that I would probably agree that Atlus should stop doing definitive editions not because I think theyre bad value, but because they have such a bad perception. Obviously they arent popular and they really probably shouldnt keep doing them. Itll be interesting to see if metaphor refantazio does it or not.
You are forgetting that years from now DLC becomes inaccessible on some games leaving players with a worse version of a beloved title and not to mention Atlus themselves aren't beta testing but improving games that they already released. You can only claim they punish superfans when it came to SMTV and Vengeance but P5 vanilla was pretty good. They just came up with new ideas and made it even better. Rereleases is better than the trash practice of modern DLC. KH3 Remind should have just been a KH3 final remix release scenario like many wanted honestly.
@@dave9515 Yeah I go over it in the video pretty hard because I do think for sure that saying it's just a beta is flat out wrong. Its just budget and time constraints love it or hate it. Also like I said if you put more money into it I think literally any game on planet earth could be improved.
Ive never really thought about the DLC becoming unavailable after the store shuts down though. DLC being digital only is actually a really good argument for rereleases
@@thalwegg6535 Yeah and it needs to be talked about more honestly because its frightening how many people don't have a grasp on the reality of DLC. all the people who preach against digital games then buy digital DLC and enjoy said digital DLC. It comes off as very hypocritical to me as well those like this. When you purchase DLC you don't own the dlc ever because its digital so it can disappear whenever a company wants it to. Its a serious issue that's only gonna hit people hard in the future once they have an old game they want to replay and then realize the DLC that improved the game is unavailable so now they miss a massive portion of story content and QOL updates.
@@thalwegg6535 Maybe calling them a beta is too much, but Atlus and SMT are not comparable to each other, both in terms of business practices and the quality of products they deliver. You might have got the beta, pay extra for the DLC, but you don’t need to buy the whole game again, DLCs are separated. You get the next gen update for free, instead of paying again to have 60fps.
Keep in mind that this game was released in 2015 and still receive a lot of technical improvements 8+ years later. Anyone who even has half of this expectation would be disappointed with P5R which released 4 years after.
Definitely overhated. DLC is trash and as we saw with Reload DLC is so much worse than a rerelease. with DLC you might never get to enjoy the good stuff in the future if you end up having to rebuy the game and install it fresh on a new console. With a rerelease you know you are getting the full experience with all the QOL additions and new content. DLC is a scam not rereleases. DLC is essentially paying to not own a piece of content and basically be guaranteed to never see again in the future. Sales also speak louder than words so ATLUS shouldn't stop just because of parts of their fandom complaining about getting a reason to revisit an old product again with a fresh coat of paint that also helps preserve a game better.
What
I'd take a good re-release over a bad remake like Persona 3 Reload