Someone above posted the particularly poignant phrase of the "terminal self-centeredness" which afflicts the bonafide NP disordered mind. It is a permanent, pathological & hideous selfishness that feigns human kindness to obtain their own needs/wants/whims & enjoyment. In my experience with just such an individual, absolutely no reciprocal attention or even care was _ever_ shown to me without _her_ agendas being the actual concern. And it is a bit ironic, carefulcarpenter, she came to the Eastern USA from Santa Cruz around 50 years ago. Her NPD mask was so unbelievably deceptive that she was in her 70''s before the application of her"condition" was made known to her. I learned that before I had ever met her, she had already driven two men to suicide. It will be a long road _toward_ recovery for me. The light that Dr. Carter has shown upon the narcissistic abuses that I have suffered has helped me to gradually regain my peace of mind in the 2+ years that I have been among the Team Healthy grateful ones.
@@Technician_One I went door to door on the cliffs of that western city for 10 years. A few complimented my motivation and courage. Actually, door to door introduction is common for many professional types. Only one person asked me for references; I came back with a list of 10. She never called.... but I sensed that my customer references were A+. ☺
@@Technician_One The one repellent that seems to help is integrity. Narcissists are not the type that personally deliver "the goods"; they are the ones who subtly "promise the goods". As a skilled carpenter I always deliver the goods as is implied. I discovered that narcissists will never admit they researched my ch an L. 10 years and not one potential customer checked the Internet. ☺
My father used to attack my character and say hurtful things to me every day (literally) after school. One of his favorite responses if I became upset was "You're so sensitive! You need to be less sensitive!". I'm sure people here can relate.
Yes, unfortunately - was my mother, in my case - and, apart from being too sensitive, this one: "You need to grow a thick skin" and "Why are you so full of angst?!"
Why are you so sensitive I have to walk on eggshells. You have a big chip on your shoulder. You're too defensive. And the number one verbal beatdown: You're fat. Your people are dumber than dirt. I hated being adopted. Many blessings ya'll. 😊
@@lindac6919 A man who works in a large company thanked me for my kindness--- after I listened carefully to his sales pitch. I imagine a "Narky" wouldn't appreciate kindness?
This is exactly how I feel. My therapist has reminded me that I didn't know what I know now. It still doesn't take away the pain of feeling I wasted way too many years trying to work things out. I just didn't know how selfish he was. That he had no empathy and his heart was replaced by a stone.
You are correct, you CAN'T UNSEE IT. It's in every single thing they do and say and you wonder why you didn't see it sooner. Then, you start seeing it in OTHER people, which is not necessarily a bad thing.
The narc also knows if you get away from them, and go no contact, you will be able to think more clearly, and recognize their deceitful ways. As long as you maintain contact with them you stay in a fog-like state of mind.
Yes. They know that admitting even a little to their ways will send you off to the hills and they don’t want that. They get a lot of supply in the “messing with you “ phase. They will breadcrumb you just to keep you in the fighting ring (while you are thinking it’s a relationship with at least some love)
And five years on, I genuinely enjoy the thought that this person told me right to my face "I'm not worried about upsetting you, I know I can manipulate you back into being friends with me" and has been proved totally wrong on this point (and many others). I bet me answering "I just want to talk" with "I don't. Please stop contacting me" sticks in his neck like a chicken bone to this day LOL
Why rack your brain in an expensive course of learning, or why seek out gainful (and sometimes rare) employment opportunities and go to work when you can hone your manipulation skills and live off someone else's efforts? There is no desire to contribute to the world with these types.
@@carefulcarpenter Narcissistic envy is flattering in the sense that the narcissist is threatened by you being better than them. The downside is when they run the smear campaign behind your back to "teach you a lesson".
This is exactly how my narcissistic mother loves to gaslight. I have learned to just ignore her and walk away from the conversation. When I point out her hypocrisy she just starts screaming STOP like toddler because she can not handle any kind of criticism at all. Talking to these people is a waste of energy. Just ignore them and leave. Don't even respond.
😂oh, yes, STOP.... They talk to you with commands like you're a dog. I should have just barked and turned around and wagged my tail like I had no idea what he was saying.. 😅
@@yvetteandjorgenlarsen9753Yes, they treat you like you have to do as they say, they're your boss, in reality they are your neighbour and have no legal right to demand you do what they are saying.
Cultivate INDIFFERENCE towards them. And not just on the outside, really let go of giving a sh*it about anything they say or do. If you're finding it difficult to cultivate indifference towards them try imagining how you would feel if a complete stranger just talked to you like that, why would you care or react to a stranger? You shouldn't. So just don't care about anything they say or do.
This is why I insist that ALL children from the ages of 8 - 10 years and up NEED an education about narcissism. Had I known as a child what subhuman narcissists my parents were, then all of their hatefulness and manipulations would have slid off of me like water off of a duck's back.
Definitely keep a physical distance from these people- I experienced this personally and I’m keeping my distance from that person Obviously they’re not going to change and they get worse as they get older
I love when they get you all upset and after the conversation ends ask you why you are so angry. Then they proceed to tell everyone in the room how angry you are to get the greatest amount of attention and supply without telling them the root cause. It's maddening.
The “double standards” and hypocrisy really gets me the most . The intentional criticism and constant complaints about certain actions, situations etc etc. then to only turn around and do exactly what the claim to have a problem with or the best, complaining about something you’ve done or do as they are doing that exact thing. It literally melts my brain
The hypocrisy absolutely infuriated me. I never cheated…he did, and yet he would beat me for wearing makeup or checking on an old friend I had no interest in. Getting thrown off a raised bed onto hard tile for buying clothes he thought I was buying to appeal to someone else…. when I had bought clothes endlessly before that…. was just wild. So I flipped the game on him…I turned off his jealously for just long enough. The easiest way to get rid of a controlling, obsessive, abusive narcissist is to make them not like you. I started sleeping on the couch, wearing frumpy clothes and keeping my hair in a bun. I hid my tiny yoga shorts and kept telling him I was too busy to be touched. So funny!!! It worked like a charm and he has no idea it was all intentional, but now I’m free and I couldn’t be any happier.☺️
Exactly! There's a narcissist in my family who will try to shame me for watching certain movies where there is someone in them who swears, bullies or has some violent tendencies. The narcissist will state, "I like to immerse myself in sweeter things," when they are often worse than the very character they dislike.
Or accusing you of what they're doing.Or making rules that you're supposed to follow but they break every one of those rules and then tell you it shouldn't have been a rule to begin with.
One time, my narcissistic brother got angry with me and threw a rageful monologue for a long time. This means he just transferred all his inner frustration onto me. Afterward, I tried to release / transfer this frustration onto a pillow in another room. Seems like a healthy way to cope, right? Well, he came barging into the room all "worried" about how emotionally unhinged I was being. Telling me to stop it, as if he's the better half and now has to keep me in control. Pretentious idiot, you were just now raging at me, which is not a healthy way to cope with your own insecurities. This incident still annoys me because it meant I was denied all channels of release, like what did he expect me to do with this frustration? Just suck it up? These narcissists literally bully you with their little temper tantrums that overpower them. And then basically not only expect, but demand, that you react with pristine emotional regulation and without any sign of what you just went through. It's insane.
Difficult. Extra. He got away with everything. When I'd suggest that what he was doing was crappy, I'd get the blame for being rightfully upset or annoyed. I wasn't difficult or extra -- kind of hard when you're a doormat without any thoughts or feelings of your own. I wasn't difficult or extra -- he was!
My dad would attack me, bringing up everything I ever did in my life to destroy me. Then I learned to turn it back on him, and he didn't like it. Well Dad, after a whole lifetime, you taught me well!
I think triangulation is more than gaslighting. My nex had two female friends he routinely talked to about me. It was three against one. At the time I still had feelings for the nex. He enjoyed having three women fussing over him. He loved the attention. How those two women couldn't see what an a$$ he was is beyond me. When I stopped caring, he got a little nervous. I think he realized he'd pushed me too far. Being drawn into that circus was not fun and very hurtful. Narcissists need attention to fill them up like hot air balloons. Without all that adoration they're just empty vessels.
I’m constantly reminding myself that narcissists are hollow & empty, that they require “the other” to feed off of. It’s easy to forget and assume that there’s an actual autonomous human in there.
For me triangulation is the most maddening gaslighting tactic ever - and it's not only used by Narcs but also by so many other people as a "favourite" manipulation technique - for it is easy to apply and it can cause serious harm like for example bullying in schools and at workplaces.
My fave is turn them back against each other. It's not easy, but Narkys are suspicious of each other in the first place...so you can hit their weak points. We had squatters next door, and one of them was a Big Mouth. I called on them several times, and each time he thought his partner was finking on him. I heard him say that he was going to put a bomb under the floor of the property manager's front porch so I called the property manager and told her, and she called the cops and they came and investigated. They talked to me, to confirm that I Had really heard that. I showed them the window where I heard it, and that he stood on his porch and the words came in clearly. I asked the cops to NOT let the squatters know that I had called them. The cops said, "we'll just say that someone was walking their dog, and overheard it." The last call I made was when Big Mouth started beating up his partner because he thought his partner called the property manager... and they ended up both being hauled off.
It is also very usefull against narcissist. Just need to find someone healthy to be on your side so you want let the narcissist to dictate you what is truth
Except they want to be called that because they think it is a game, since they haven’t gotten a permanent sentence to Outer Darkness yet. God lets them do this ‘just in case’ there is a chance they can be saved by watching their victims, who are the actual real humans.
Yes, I use to constantly ask my ex if he thought he was better than me. I use to be so angry and he is sitting there so calm. He was the one that was provoking me.
We didn’t know how damaged they were when we met them because they were wearing a mask. They are projecting all their childhood trauma that they refuse to acknowledge and heal from and instead because of this internal stubbornness they destroy the lives of others.
My parents are cool. My sibling is a narcissist. Malignant. Always wants conflict. Just wanna live in peace. Always looking for drama. Then when they drink it's over. The walls come crashing.
My elderly mother has a new game. When she gets nasty, name calls or lies (and I call her out on it) she says, "I don't remember. It's just a part of old age that I forget things or said things." Then she grins. SOOOOOOO......I said, "Well, I will have to start recording you. I've read that it's very beneficial to help Geriatric persons recall events." She's on her best behavior.....for now. LOL That is until she tries to figure out how to get out of that one. Because I AM NOW AUDIO RECORDING HER EVERY TIME WE SPEAK! LOL She's madder than a wet hen too! She's not confused or suffering from Dementia in any way! She's sharp as a tack and has a vipers tongue.
I am committed to my own healthiness and want to live my life in peace far away from the narcissists dysfunctional and abusive tactics. Thank you dr Carter ❤ God bless you ❤
I've become so non-reactive to people, narkys or not narkys. They could come in and tell me that they've been in the backyard throwing bunnies into a meat-grinder, and I would keep doing what I'm doing, and say: "huh. oh." Then after they leave the room... I call the cops and tell them about animal abuse. the other thing...when I feel justified in my anger, I focus it and use it. I can be very emotional and very controlled, and I always choose my words well. "Oh, yes, I am angry. It's appropriate anger, and I mean every word that I say." And I continue on, I usually throw in that they think they own all the anger all the time...and that the only reason I tolerate them is because I understand their need for my charitable patience and understanding...and it's wearing thin, and they better straighten up and fly right. Thank you for all that you do, Dr Carter.
In my experience with these people, I learned that the difference between a seven year old child and a seventy year old narcissist is that the seven year old child is actually aware of his mortality.
I’ve just thought about that today 😅 … I think it is being angry with you all the time, it’s like they’re saying “you are the problem” over and over again until you actually believe something must be really wrong with you.
They are always always always MAD about something, and if they aren't mad, you drop ur guard thinking you'll have a normal moment, but they are Chaos merchants and soon will whip themselves into a hissing raging frenzy over a perceived wrong, slight, or your "inability" to cooperate, when THEY are some of the most uncooperative people I've ever MET.
I recently read that a narcissist wants the authority of a king, with the responsibility of a newborn. After dealing with abusive narcissists from birth, with my employer and former marriage, that resonated as strongly as your videos do.
I haven’t listened to the video yet but I was literally just this morning reflecting on how the narcissist’s entire family gaslit me and my kids into thinking they cared about what we think or believe. It was so infuriating. They will ask a question of interest so to make you believe they are actually interested in what you have to say and then no more than two or three words out of your mouth they either talk over you AT you, begin speaking to someone else, change the subject altogether, or (this one I found fascinating…) they just walked away- literally not two or three words out of my mouth and they would do these things to me. When my kids became adults and started realizing they were doing it to them, we would just share a glance and all take a deep breath. The thing about it that made me most frustrated is they don’t do this to other people. It’s just to me and my kids. AND they are viewed as one of the most respectable families in our community. So in the beginning I thought I was actually going insane. I actually thought it was just me. If you are someone experiencing what I just described… IT’S NOT YOU. You are not crazy. They are rude and lazy people who are very intelligent and know exactly what they’re doing to you. That’s how they get their kicks for the day. You might want to consider a healthy alternative which is to leave that family and never go back. You are worth being with people who love and appreciate you. That begins with yourself 💜 Edited for typos
Appealing to my love and relationship commitment to believe the gaslighting, I did. It was abusing trust. I didn’t experience the “maddening” until I had distance, reflection, and perspective.
Alternative Healthy Response (to anger baiting, gaslighting, and shaming) 1) Examine the big picture, their game, their history, the pattern: recognize it 2) Take stock of your success rate in getting them to see the light 3) Anticipate future episodes 4) Create a buffer zone 5) Individualize your stability; regulate your emotions separate from them 5) Seek support from healthy individuals Thank you!
"Maddening," for sure! It got me SO mad, I tipped out the door! Out into clean, fresh air and all the Healthy I could carry! Be Healthy! Enjoy Healthy! It's out there! Go get yours!
As long as I can think I have been raised up by triangulation in my whole family. I did not know the term "triangulation" as a child but I have always been aware of the constant comparison in my family that was driving me mad and has had a significant impact on me in the sense of never feeling enough and constantly doubting myself.
Confronting a Narcissist and pointing out their faults and tactics, fuels them. It gives them more opportunity to gaslight you and point out your faults.
Sadly the calmer and the more patient I was, the more provocatively he would act. Triangulation, stonewalling, all sprinkled with lots of half truths. I would not react, which led to his rage out of nowhere. Yelling and paranoia. It is inconceivable how strong trauma bond can be. All this abuse and still grieving a hollow soul full of darkness. Thank you Dr C for your support. It is soothing and enlightening.
OMG, this is exactly what my covert narcissist mom would do to me. She would call and through conversation share things that would upset me. This stress from these conversations every week would eventually get passed on to my family in a negative way. It wasn't until my wife put it together that every time I got off the phone with my mom I would be so upset inside that my reactions to everyday things would really get me upset. It was like a light bulb turning on. I stopped answering her calls as a first step and then the text messages started. At first, she would bait me into responding and then start gas lighting me about my late father and if that didn't get a response it would escalate from there. I finally after pleading with her to stop the gaslighting of my late father and other things a covert narcisist does, I had to block her. It has taken four years to get to this point and wish I had done it sooner for my family's helath and mine. Note: I am the Scapegoat of the family with a half sister the Golden Child from my moms first marriage. LOL, sadly both of them are blocked.
The constant passive aggressive insults really messed me up. Also the accusations which I could always prove werent true. Then they would try to gaslight me into believing the bs. 3 years out of it and focusing on positivity and self confidence.
I say to myself in my head, your anger is none of my buisness. After many years of narcissistic abuse the best tactic so far and it's hard but I'm doing it - is to have no emotion. No anger shown or even happiness. Just neutral. I don't let them know my buisness either. It leaves them nothing to feed off, drives them nuts but then they already are, they just can't control it inside as much. They are unable to regulate their emotions. Once you understand it's fascinating to watch. Dr Carter's channel is a godsend to us survivors
The best way to handle anger is to stay true to yourself regardless of what the Narc says or does. Even if you have to use force, do it in a way that you know your handling the situation and not with out of control anger. Anger will prevent you from clear thinking every time. 😊
The examples are shockingly, correct… For 3 1/2 decades I did not understand what was happening, and when conflicts over silly things would turn heated because I was just trying to explain my point of view, certain that if I could say things the right way he would understand, They spiraled out of control, and he employed every single one of these tactics. I would cry or try to explain myself or any of the other responses Dr. C mentions… My husband would become infuriated and demand that I ask his forgiveness, apologize… He would tell me something was wrong with me because I couldn’t do that quickly. In reality, I couldn’t figure out what was going on. I would beg him to listen so that we could work it out and in variably, he would say, “this conversation is over. “Then he would go to bed and refuse to speak to me. I can’t tell you how liberating it feels to have these situations described, and to understand what was actually happening. I wasn’t crazy, or a bad or unforgiving person. I wasn’t difficult or unkind or contrary. I was just a human trying to have a relationship with someone who never saw me. Thank you, Dr. C. Having the vocabulary to describe my reality has been so helpful on this healing journey.
During the last few months of that relationship, I lost count of the number of times I walked away from a conversation thinking “that didn’t feel right”. Then when I would confront that person and they would react frustrated with me for being angry or hurt. Many times I heard “it makes no sense why you would be hurt about that”. After 5 years of knowing this person I’ve had enough. They don’t want to be helped and are too committed to entitlement, superiority and control. I’m sad and grieving but have found more peace from detaching from them.
Triangulation is a tactic, where a Narc (or any other toxic person) is frequently comparing you to a third party. This causes conflict in you on different levels: 1. You are driven into competition, which can increase insecurity in you. 2. It's used to provoke jalousy in you. 3. The gaslighting effect is that you will doubt your own perception of feelings and reality. 5. You will constantly feel inadequate und unworthy so that your self esteem becomes lower. 6. It's also used to isolate you. 7. It can erode your sense of identity and autonomy. You become hyper-focused on meeting the Narcs demands and gaining their approval, losing sight of your own needs and desires. 8. You may develop a fear of abandonment, as you are conditioned to believe that you are replaceable and your worth is contingent on your ability to outperform the third party.
Triangulation is a dynamic that can arise from a conflict between two people. It involves them communicating primarily through a neutral party or otherwise drawing a third person into their own issues, creating a "triangle"
I really woke up to the narcissistic treatment I was getting from my ex when I watched the Netflix series Maid, particularly the end of episode 8 & the beginning of episode 9 of which I could relate to in the way I was feeling. For years, I was in this belief that he could still be that dotting person I first met. I'm still obviously traumatised by this relationship as it's been 6 months since he moved out & I still haven't been able to drag myself out to socialise. In saying this, others have been noticing how withdrawn I am & asking if I'm OK & questioning me if they have done something wrong. No, they haven't done anything wrong. But they have always known me to be a very strong person who has handled a lot. I'm still trying to find myself again & trying not to feel guilty for allowing this relationship to change me so much. I'm glad & lucky I still have a couple of really good friends. ❤
If you even give them a minor taste of what they do to you, they become engraged and can't take it, at which point I tell them, "Oh, you can DISH it out but you CAN'T TAKE even a watered down version of what you do? Then stop dishing it out."
My mother used to hold the family hostage by creating a ridiculous, horrible family fight, we’d all get so upset. I’d just run out the door & go sit in the woods. She publicly made fun of me for doing that. My childhood was pure insanity and terror. Now I’ve got a longterm Covert N partner who uses my ‘anger’ to justify his selfishness. This time, he’s the one who leaves to look for new supply, I stay home and regain as much as peace as I can.
Oh I just made the gaslighting connection with an argument my former wife had with me. We were at a parade and she asked me to set up our chairs along the sidewalk. But the whole sidewalk had ropes along it. As though the neighbors had reserved the space. And my former wife insisted that the ropes were not there. And that the situation wasn’t happening. And I got very irritated with her. Which is exactly the reaction she wanted. I did not know about narcissism or gaslighting at the time. But I certainly do now!!
Just had that happen to me and it doesn't have to be anything important. Something small and trivial will do for them. Doc, you're 100% right, it IS the most maddening tactic they use!! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr.........
" They provoke the anger , then shame the anger ". So true Dr Carter - they create the drama, antagonise, provoke, prod, bait and then sit back - its a very sick game. My ex husband did this as though a thrilling Olympic sport.
It was about my feelings hurt and what had happened, he kept making it about himself, when I told him this is not about you, a few times, he pointed to the door, yes I picked up my things and left. Like he just won't acknowledge me.
A long, long time ago I recognized the use of the word "just". If you really pay attention most of the time people use the word "just" is to get out of something that they know they did wrong and they want to escape responsibility. "I 'just' wanted to do something nice for the family". "I 'just' want to make sure you're okay." I told my narc husband that was one of my deal breakers. I no longer wanted to hear the word "just" from him anymore.
This happens just about daily. I'm told I should change my reaction when I tell them how something makes me feel. I've been told my feelings are wrong not how they treat me
Hi Dr Carter! You have just pinpointed a narcissist’s most AGGRAVATING characteristic! It took me SO LONG to just stop rising to the challenge of him attacking me!!! I sometimes feel like an idiot now for not recognizing their evil tactics earlier! But at least I eventually learned to ignore it. Unfortunately I believe being exposed to his evilness changed my character as well. Do you have a video about this?
My challenge is to use the peace that is within me to guide me away from the chaos and to finally learn the lesson of not trying to fix or save or cure the chaos..
I think that sometimes they use gaslighting as a kind sick substitute for interaction. They seem to act like the exchange was some kind of successful. I may, or may not, think or feel whatever, but he -- or she -- seems happy in some way. As if we'd had a good or at least satisfactory interaction.. Crazy. And crazy making.
My narc boss says louldly, where I can hear him..."It's all Dylanna's fault". I replied "I don't have a need to blame others for my mistakes"..... I accept responsibility for my errors, which are few and far between." He laughed and said he wanted to use the reply..... I said, you can use it if it is true. I was fired within a few months, as they realized I was not buying into their superiority.
They poke the bear and then get mad when the bear reacts and deny the hot poker was in their hands. They never take accountability and are always right and you are the one who overreacts. They will never admit to their game playing.
I’m amazed at how “spot on” your insight is into how the narcissist operates, pulling the old “Get You, Gotcha” game. So sad, but very true! I’ve been so encouraged by your videos just knowing I’m not alone! Thank you, Dr. C!!❤
This describes my narc sister perfectly. Being constantly treated in a disrespectful and condescending way by her provoked me to anger once, and she began gaslighting me like you wouldn’t believe. She decided that my one angry response to her constant belittling comments meant that I had anger issues, that I was “seeking vengeance,” etc. (I’ve never had anyone else tell me those things in my life.) After this, I showed a counselor some emails my sister had sent me, and this counselor told me that my sister was a “professional gaslighter.” What makes this situation even harder is that my sister and I share so many mutual friends - extended family members, old family friends, etc., and they all believe that she is the most wonderful and superior person in the world. Seeing others give my sister constant adulation on social media makes me feel like I’m going crazy.
It will all come out in the end. The hard part is the waiting for the end. So when you decide because you know the very truth of it all. Take care of yourself. In your heart and soul you know all that happened and HOW IT ALL HAPPENED. Just walk away and hold your head up people will figure it out in there time. It made me crazy too wondering why don’t people see!!! The real truth. They might or they might not. Just to be grateful and thankful you did. I know it’s hard and feels like your heart is ripped out and stomped on. But know at least you have a heart. 🤗
My experience is that when we ask a question of a narcissist they will either cry or refuse to answer the question that will expose their own attitude. I have removed them from my life because they have worn me out with all their nonsense. I ignore them as much as possible when they drop in once a year while waiting for time to pass so they can leave. Thankfully it is only for a day or two once a year. They come to court my husband and ignore me. When my husband passes my goal is to move and not tell any of them where I went.
Strive for eventual and certain zero contact, many times you are required to back away slowly. Keep things surface level. Avoid any type of commitment with these joyless takers and robbers of life.
Yes! My brother and sister in law do this. They will provoke and then say things like "I hope you can understand that we're trying to move forward in a healthy way because we love and care about you." They'll accuse people of things they didn't do, and then say "I don't know how to talk to you because it just seems to make you angry." 🤦♀️ I finally saw them for the toxic people they are and stepped away from that relationship. Hopefully, the other people they do this to are able to see through it.
I am feeling dizzy watching this and reading comments. I thank God im not dealing with these people in any intimate or family relationships. I said GB to them all. They still creep in as neighbors and clients but at least they are never in my own home. Phew.😊
Thank you for this information. I can't tell you how much your knowledge and empathy have helped me through 2 male Narcissists and 1 female Psychopath. No response is a response. Their crazy making no longer affects my soul.💕
I know this experience very well. Being set-up and then blamed.
3 месяца назад+4
Lsughing at them works wonders for me, and never losing your composure makes them embarass themselves. Be sure to tell them that after the tantrum. I find narcissists to be pretty entertaining and easy to play as fools. Took a long time to develop filters though.
Be careful with that one. "I'll laugh at them, and they'll embarrass themselves, and that really works for me" is *eerily* similar to "I provoke anger, and then I can shame them for being angry, and then I can feel superior." Don't you think? It may be understandable for the person on the receiving end of those narcissistic tactics, to turn around and apply exactly the same tactics - but it's a dangerous path to walk down. They weren't born the way they are - they encountered a narcissist, walked down exactly that path- and missed the time to turn around. Don't become them to beat them at their game, it's too high a price to pay.
Family of origin trauma bond. THEY thin k love means lording over others, because that is what their mom/dad did to them. It ALL comes from one or both parents/caregivers.
I know a woman who claims she is 'So very proud" of her husband's calmness after a person who he has been aggressive with reacts negatively. She'll say that person "was JUST BEING IMPOSSIBLE!", totally ignoring her husband's nasty provocations. "Oh, I was just so proud of him! He didn't let them upset him!!" (What a guy.) UGH. I know the jerk very well.
I cant believe I found your channel by accident. My N and i used to see you. Love that you are still doing this. You helped me get out and know there wasnt anything i could do to fix it. Thank you so much.
My dad throws a hurtful punch, and then will deny that he said that: literally 20nseconds later- he “can’t recall” , then takes some word I said in the interval , and word salads into a totally different topic - deflect , evade, deny, dismiss . And how many times did I try to explain myself? Bring him back to the original point ? 😂, oh Dr c I know you’ll forgive me. No more explanations or attempts to love a guy that clearly has an Empty heart. Not my problem, his loss. I’m amazing. 🎉😂 he’s old and frail Now, and he lost a loving daughter. I lived the part of him that loved me because at the time I was just a part of him. The extension. He Pushed me away so hard I couldn’t even turn around if I tried.
I love Dr Les Carter. He is an amazing person and very knowledgeable and passionate in this subject. I always enjoy watching your RUclips videos, and I appreciate the very important and useful work you do for others. Thank you. ❤❤❤
How bout setting you up for anger and frustration, then once you begin getting upset they change to calm face and say,”I just don’t know where all of this (your anger) is coming from…I’m just trying to help you.” -mom sister duo team, and ex-girlfriend. If I was the problem like they say, then wouldn’t I be getting those kind of responses in all of my other social reactions???
… yes, you’re right about trying to not react… and I’m getting better at ignoring them… but I can only take so much… 24/7 they stalk and provoke… I heard one of them won the lottery and has been paying for the harassment… at work, follow me in the stores and businesses I frequent as well…😡🤬
This is my narc father in a nutshell- I had a stroke a month ago (I was just released a little over two weeks)… not only did he make the whole situation about HIM (even claiming that my mother was to blame for my predicament), he also gaslighted the hell out my wife who was acting as my advocate, claiming “he had the LEGAL right to see me” (I’m 51 years of age and I told my wife that neither parent was wanted at my hospital room, as both would potential make my medical condition worse with their shenanigans- in short, he has NO LEGAL rights unless I grant them). My father has done NOTHING to further my health in ANY way up to this point (he preferred to be with his one-night stand) and NOW he was to play “father”? Yeah right. THEN he types out a whole message telling my wife “not to mess with him” when HE was causing the whole mess. This was going on for weeks while I wasn’t sure if I had my use of my limbs being stuck in the hospital for weeks. The result? I refuse to have anything to do with EITHER parent. My father in particular has shown over the years THAT HE DOES NOT CARE of the family unit HE had a part in creating. So why should he be allowed to use his theatrics to his benefit at MY expense?
They are deeply dangerous people psychologically and emotionally. Especially if they're sociopathic. And when it's an aging parent from whom you cannot escape, you better learn to deal with them in order to stay alive, 'cause they can push you to the brink of insanity. No joke. The abuse is incomprehensible.
I heard of a college professor, who played these kinds of life games with a graduate student. The student reshaped the professor's head with a ball peen hammer at his next meeting with this professor. He put a paper bag over the profs head, as he was still sitting at his desk .. He then hung a sign saying " out to lunch " around his neck. As this society becomes poorer and unwinds, playing narcissist games with people is going to become an extremely dangerous business....
"They make you crazy; then blame you for being crazy."
Their condition is contagious.
Someone above posted the particularly poignant phrase of the "terminal self-centeredness" which afflicts the bonafide NP disordered mind. It is a permanent, pathological & hideous selfishness that feigns human kindness to obtain their own needs/wants/whims & enjoyment. In my experience with just such an individual, absolutely no reciprocal attention or even care was _ever_ shown to me without _her_ agendas being the actual concern. And it is a bit ironic, carefulcarpenter, she came to the Eastern USA from Santa Cruz around 50 years ago. Her NPD mask was so unbelievably deceptive that she was in her 70''s before the application of her"condition" was made known to her. I learned that before I had ever met her, she had already driven two men to suicide. It will be a long road _toward_ recovery for me. The light that Dr. Carter has shown upon the narcissistic abuses that I have suffered has helped me to gradually regain my peace of mind in the 2+ years that I have been among the Team Healthy grateful ones.
@@Technician_One I went door to door on the cliffs of that western city for 10 years. A few complimented my motivation and courage. Actually, door to door introduction is common for many professional types. Only one person asked me for references; I came back with a list of 10.
She never called.... but I sensed that my customer references were A+. ☺
@@Technician_One The one repellent that seems to help is integrity. Narcissists are not the type that personally deliver "the goods"; they are the ones who subtly "promise the goods".
As a skilled carpenter I always deliver the goods as is implied. I discovered that narcissists will never admit they researched my ch an L. 10 years and not one potential customer checked the Internet. ☺
Have you ever found your way to Vermont or New Hampshire?
My father used to attack my character and say hurtful things to me every day (literally) after school. One of his favorite responses if I became upset was "You're so sensitive! You need to be less sensitive!". I'm sure people here can relate.
Yes, unfortunately - was my mother, in my case - and, apart from being too sensitive, this one: "You need to grow a thick skin" and "Why are you so full of angst?!"
Why are you so sensitive I have to walk on eggshells. You have a big chip on your shoulder. You're too defensive. And the number one verbal beatdown: You're fat. Your people are dumber than dirt. I hated being adopted. Many blessings ya'll. 😊
Very much so
Yes my mother was a narcissist and I went through hell,my poor sister committed suicide on mother’s day about 20 years ago now😎
before you could blame your father, first you need to evaluate yourself whether you are sensitive. is there any truth in his feedback.
I walk away from anyone who falsely accuses others of being the problem. 🚶♂💨💨🚩
There are plenty of false accusers and double standards in this current world.
They have a plan.
I love your picture, so cute 🐶 I do the same. Someone continously changing the narrative to their self interest is a big red flag.
@@Zeepjeliefs Thank you, but sadly he passed away last year. He was so cute. 🙏
Whoever invents narcissist repellent should win the Nobel Peace Prize.
lol great idea! I wish
The advice Dr. Carter gives us is the narcissist repellent. Recognizing terminal self-centeredness is practically a superpower.
Double-checking your own projections and triggers is valuable. We often mislabel before we check our own emotional state.
@@carefulcarpenter I don't care about labels. Actions speak louder than labels.
When it acts like a Narky; then, I'll treat it like it's a Narky.
@@lindac6919 A man who works in a large company thanked me for my kindness--- after I listened carefully to his sales pitch. I imagine a "Narky" wouldn't appreciate kindness?
The awful part is after years of confusion I now realize I should have walked away a long time ago😞
That is hard to take. I sympathise. It took me a long time to realise how much time I wasted. It's hard to think about.
This is exactly how I feel. My therapist has reminded me that I didn't know what I know now. It still doesn't take away the pain of feeling I wasted way too many years trying to work things out. I just didn't know how selfish he was. That he had no empathy and his heart was replaced by a stone.
@@JackieFerrell-f6oexactly, it’s like any empathy is just not in existence. No matter how much they take, they will take more.
Me too! The damage to the children is the most difficult part! 💔😥😣
Yes time is wasted, forgive & love yourself & be blessed you are not dealing with the toxic thing
I had trouble identifying gaslighting because it was how I was raised. But once you see and understand, you can’t unsee it.
Takes a lot of work to establish a more healthy relationship with life and relationships, and yourself.
You are correct, you CAN'T UNSEE IT. It's in every single thing they do and say and you wonder why you didn't see it sooner. Then, you start seeing it in OTHER people, which is not necessarily a bad thing.
So true
Yes!!
I still can't see it in time😢 Hindsight, yes, its obviou... but not until I've suffered. That's because of my upbringing too.
Throwing it back to you, pretending that they don't know what you're talking about, muddying the waters.... classic tactics 😢
The narc also knows if you get away from them, and go no contact, you will be able to think more clearly, and recognize their deceitful ways. As long as you maintain contact with them you stay in a fog-like state of mind.
Excellent point!
Yes.
Yes. They know that admitting even a little to their ways will send you off to the hills and they don’t want that. They get a lot of supply in the “messing with you “ phase. They will breadcrumb you just to keep you in the fighting ring (while you are thinking it’s a relationship with at least some love)
And five years on, I genuinely enjoy the thought that this person told me right to my face "I'm not worried about upsetting you, I know I can manipulate you back into being friends with me" and has been proved totally wrong on this point (and many others). I bet me answering "I just want to talk" with "I don't. Please stop contacting me" sticks in his neck like a chicken bone to this day LOL
THIS!!! Absolutely.
Gaslighting is all a reminder of how easily we can be fooled and how shaky the truth can feel in a world full of manipulation and deceit.
So True! Excellent Point! 🎉
Why rack your brain in an expensive course of learning, or why seek out gainful (and sometimes rare) employment opportunities and go to work when you can hone your manipulation skills and live off someone else's efforts? There is no desire to contribute to the world with these types.
Two of the highest compliments came to me by way of the gaslighting subtle put-downs. It's what you read into it.
@@carefulcarpenter Narcissistic envy is flattering in the sense that the narcissist is threatened by you being better than them. The downside is when they run the smear campaign behind your back to "teach you a lesson".
It speaks to our desperate need for love from these two-faced monsters.
The long-term effects of triangulation can be devastating, impacting your ability to form healthy relationships and trust others.
Gave me heart issues
It's taken me a long time to trust anyone. But, now I've met a lovely man. I've been very a long time on my own and I didn't see this coming 😊
So true. I’ve actually almost totally isolated. Triangulation going on since I was a kid from narc parents and siblings. It’s maddening.
@@amandaliverpool3374 , He is one lucky man. You deserve the best!🌹💜🙏
You can trust others...To always act in their own best interests.
This is exactly how my narcissistic mother loves to gaslight. I have learned to just ignore her and walk away from the conversation. When I point out her hypocrisy she just starts screaming STOP like toddler because she can not handle any kind of criticism at all. Talking to these people is a waste of energy. Just ignore them and leave. Don't even respond.
😂oh, yes, STOP.... They talk to you with commands like you're a dog. I should have just barked and turned around and wagged my tail like I had no idea what he was saying.. 😅
sounds like my mother
@@yvetteandjorgenlarsen9753Yes, they treat you like you have to do as they say, they're your boss, in reality they are your neighbour and have no legal right to demand you do what they are saying.
Cultivate INDIFFERENCE towards them. And not just on the outside, really let go of giving a sh*it about anything they say or do.
If you're finding it difficult to cultivate indifference towards them try imagining how you would feel if a complete stranger just talked to you like that, why would you care or react to a stranger? You shouldn't. So just don't care about anything they say or do.
45 years of marriage misery. Emotional detachment changed EVERYTHING!
How to walk away from a narcissist - 2 words (walk away )quietly, and try to avoid them to the day they die. It is called grey rocking.
No contact was my salvation. She is no longer a friend or acquaintance.
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
Good idea. That's why I live in Denver, and my narcissistic family lives in Oregon. Haven't been back in 8 years.
No, grey rocking is what you do when you’re still with the narcissist
Accusations by a narcissist is nothing more than confessions...
Astute and concise point
The are very much into projection, it seems.
Absolutely!
This is why I insist that ALL children from the ages of 8 - 10 years and up NEED an education about narcissism. Had I known as a child what subhuman narcissists my parents were, then all of their hatefulness and manipulations would have slid off of me like water off of a duck's back.
Yess indeed
Definitely keep a physical distance from these people- I experienced this personally and I’m keeping my distance from that person
Obviously they’re not going to change and they get worse as they get older
I love when they get you all upset and after the conversation ends ask you why you are so angry. Then they proceed to tell everyone in the room how angry you are to get the greatest amount of attention and supply without telling them the root cause. It's maddening.
especially in a church setting,
That's sad. I've seen that done before. My older brothers used to do that to my youngest sister. I was too young to understand, but I get it now.
The “double standards” and hypocrisy really gets me the most . The intentional criticism and constant complaints about certain actions, situations etc etc. then to only turn around and do exactly what the claim to have a problem with or the best, complaining about something you’ve done or do as they are doing that exact thing. It literally melts my brain
The hypocrisy absolutely infuriated me.
I never cheated…he did, and yet he would beat me for wearing makeup or checking on an old friend I had no interest in. Getting thrown off a raised bed onto hard tile for buying clothes he thought I was buying to appeal to someone else…. when I had bought clothes endlessly before that…. was just wild. So I flipped the game on him…I turned off his jealously for just long enough. The easiest way to get rid of a controlling, obsessive, abusive narcissist is to make them not like you.
I started sleeping on the couch, wearing frumpy clothes and keeping my hair in a bun. I hid my tiny yoga shorts and kept telling him I was too busy to be touched. So funny!!! It worked like a charm and he has no idea it was all intentional, but now I’m free and I couldn’t be any happier.☺️
Sounds like the give a mint.
Exactly! There's a narcissist in my family who will try to shame me for watching certain movies where there is someone in them who swears, bullies or has some violent tendencies. The narcissist will state, "I like to immerse myself in sweeter things," when they are often worse than the very character they dislike.
Or accusing you of what they're doing.Or making rules that you're supposed to follow but they break every one of those rules and then tell you it shouldn't have been a rule to begin with.
Yes, or doing much worse than the utterly false accusations they've made about you.
One time, my narcissistic brother got angry with me and threw a rageful monologue for a long time. This means he just transferred all his inner frustration onto me. Afterward, I tried to release / transfer this frustration onto a pillow in another room. Seems like a healthy way to cope, right? Well, he came barging into the room all "worried" about how emotionally unhinged I was being. Telling me to stop it, as if he's the better half and now has to keep me in control. Pretentious idiot, you were just now raging at me, which is not a healthy way to cope with your own insecurities. This incident still annoys me because it meant I was denied all channels of release, like what did he expect me to do with this frustration? Just suck it up? These narcissists literally bully you with their little temper tantrums that overpower them. And then basically not only expect, but demand, that you react with pristine emotional regulation and without any sign of what you just went through. It's insane.
My ex hubby used to do whater he could to irritate me. Then, when I snapped back, which was hard to do, I was being a 'mad woman' 🙄
He told me I was was a ragger...when he'd bait me into an argument then accuse me of starting a fight...this was frustrating
Difficult. Extra.
He got away with everything. When I'd suggest that what he was doing was crappy, I'd get the blame for being rightfully upset or annoyed. I wasn't difficult or extra -- kind of hard when you're a doormat without any thoughts or feelings of your own. I wasn't difficult or extra -- he was!
My dad would attack me, bringing up everything I ever did in my life to destroy me. Then I learned to turn it back on him, and he didn't like it. Well Dad, after a whole lifetime, you taught me well!
My narc sis. "you are sick".
My ex would provoke me then record my reaction whilst laughing.
I think triangulation is more than gaslighting. My nex had two female friends he routinely talked to about me. It was three against one. At the time I still had feelings for the nex. He enjoyed having three women fussing over him. He loved the attention. How those two women couldn't see what an a$$ he was is beyond me. When I stopped caring, he got a little nervous. I think he realized he'd pushed me too far. Being drawn into that circus was not fun and very hurtful. Narcissists need attention to fill them up like hot air balloons. Without all that adoration they're just empty vessels.
Yep. And, empty vessels make the most sound 👍
I’m constantly reminding myself that narcissists are hollow & empty, that they require “the other” to feed off of. It’s easy to forget and assume that there’s an actual autonomous human in there.
For me triangulation is the most maddening gaslighting tactic ever - and it's not only used by Narcs but also by so many other people as a "favourite" manipulation technique - for it is easy to apply and it can cause serious harm like for example bullying in schools and at workplaces.
And neighbours against a person.
My fave is turn them back against each other. It's not easy, but Narkys are suspicious of each other in the first place...so you can hit their weak points.
We had squatters next door, and one of them was a Big Mouth. I called on them several times, and each time he thought his partner was finking on him.
I heard him say that he was going to put a bomb under the floor of the property manager's front porch so I called the property manager and told her, and she called the cops and they came and investigated. They talked to me, to confirm that I Had really heard that. I showed them the window where I heard it, and that he stood on his porch and the words came in clearly. I asked the cops to NOT let the squatters know that I had called them. The cops said, "we'll just say that someone was walking their dog, and overheard it."
The last call I made was when Big Mouth started beating up his partner because he thought his partner called the property manager... and they ended up both being hauled off.
@@SandraII-in9sl and that's exactly what I see.
@@lindac6919yaysville.😂
It is also very usefull against narcissist. Just need to find someone healthy to be on your side so you want let the narcissist to dictate you what is truth
They provoked then shame you, that reminds me of the devil!
Except they want to be called that because they think it is a game, since they haven’t gotten a permanent sentence to Outer Darkness yet. God lets them do this ‘just in case’ there is a chance they can be saved by watching their victims, who are the actual real humans.
Yes, I use to constantly ask my ex if he thought he was better than me. I use to be so angry and he is sitting there so calm. He was the one that was provoking me.
Yes,they think they are better than everyone@@comfortzone5618..sad,but true
We didn’t know how damaged they were when we met them because they were wearing a mask. They are projecting all their childhood trauma that they refuse to acknowledge and heal from and instead because of this internal stubbornness they destroy the lives of others.
My X the narcissist would say his parents and childhood was perfect...but he'd say I came from a dysfunctional family ...
@@maryjankowski9032he was spoiled rotten, sounds like. That is a cause of narcs also.
That's my husband right there!!!
My dad is impossible to talk to, he can not have a conversation without twisting it against you
Exactly this, every time.
That's exactly what I deal with my narcissistic partner.
My parents are cool. My sibling is a narcissist. Malignant. Always wants conflict. Just wanna live in peace. Always looking for drama. Then when they drink it's over. The walls come crashing.
My elderly mother has a new game. When she gets nasty, name calls or lies (and I call her out on it) she says, "I don't remember. It's just a part of old age that I forget things or said things." Then she grins. SOOOOOOO......I said, "Well, I will have to start recording you. I've read that it's very beneficial to help Geriatric persons recall events." She's on her best behavior.....for now. LOL That is until she tries to figure out how to get out of that one. Because I AM NOW AUDIO RECORDING HER EVERY TIME WE SPEAK! LOL She's madder than a wet hen too! She's not confused or suffering from Dementia in any way! She's sharp as a tack and has a vipers tongue.
Suggest to her that if the forgetfulness gets any worse she may need to go into a care home , with a concerned look on your face
This is such a good strategy, I wish I’d used it with my mother!
My mil does the same thing, “I forgot”…. With a thick mocking smile. 🤮 also threatening elder abuse every time things don’t go her way.
I am committed to my own healthiness and want to live my life in peace far away from the narcissists dysfunctional and abusive tactics. Thank you dr Carter ❤ God bless you ❤
I've become so non-reactive to people, narkys or not narkys. They could come in and tell me that they've been in the backyard throwing bunnies into a meat-grinder, and I would keep doing what I'm doing, and say: "huh. oh."
Then after they leave the room... I call the cops and tell them about animal abuse.
the other thing...when I feel justified in my anger, I focus it and use it.
I can be very emotional and very controlled, and I always choose my words well. "Oh, yes, I am angry. It's appropriate anger, and I mean every word that I say." And I continue on, I usually throw in that they think they own all the anger all the time...and that the only reason I tolerate them is because I understand their need for my charitable patience and understanding...and it's wearing thin, and they better straighten up and fly right.
Thank you for all that you do, Dr Carter.
In my experience with these people, I learned that the difference between a seven year old child and a seventy year old narcissist is that the seven year old child is actually aware of his mortality.
Well said.
I’ve just thought about that today 😅 … I think it is being angry with you all the time, it’s like they’re saying “you are the problem” over and over again until you actually believe something must be really wrong with you.
@SandraII-in9sl Thank you for this reminder ❤
They are always always always MAD about something, and if they aren't mad, you drop ur guard thinking you'll have a normal moment, but they are Chaos merchants and soon will whip themselves into a hissing raging frenzy over a perceived wrong, slight, or your "inability" to cooperate, when THEY are some of the most uncooperative people I've ever MET.
If someone is saying “You are the problem” over and over, what they really are communicating is “I am terrified that you might NOT be the problem!”
I recently read that a narcissist wants the authority of a king, with the responsibility of a newborn.
After dealing with abusive narcissists from birth, with my employer and former marriage, that resonated as strongly as your videos do.
Exactly.
Absolutely spot on.
Spot on! Exactly what I'm dealing with right now.
What a great quote…the authority of a king with the responsibility of a newborn. I will have to remember that one. Dealing with that now.
That fits perfectly.
1. They drive you Nuts. 2. Then call you Crazy. 3.Then blame You for it. 4. Then tell you how to feel about it.
I haven’t listened to the video yet but I was literally just this morning reflecting on how the narcissist’s entire family gaslit me and my kids into thinking they cared about what we think or believe. It was so infuriating. They will ask a question of interest so to make you believe they are actually interested in what you have to say and then no more than two or three words out of your mouth they either talk over you AT you, begin speaking to someone else, change the subject altogether, or (this one I found fascinating…) they just walked away- literally not two or three words out of my mouth and they would do these things to me. When my kids became adults and started realizing they were doing it to them, we would just share a glance and all take a deep breath. The thing about it that made me most frustrated is they don’t do this to other people. It’s just to me and my kids. AND they are viewed as one of the most respectable families in our community. So in the beginning I thought I was actually going insane. I actually thought it was just me. If you are someone experiencing what I just described… IT’S NOT YOU. You are not crazy. They are rude and lazy people who are very intelligent and know exactly what they’re doing to you. That’s how they get their kicks for the day. You might want to consider a healthy alternative which is to leave that family and never go back. You are worth being with people who love and appreciate you. That begins with yourself 💜
Edited for typos
You are so on it, Kelly! Part of healing is trusting yourself and moving on!!
Check out the new book "It's Not You" by Dr Ramani Durvasula on narcissistic abuse and survival!
Appealing to my love and relationship commitment to believe the gaslighting, I did. It was abusing trust. I didn’t experience the “maddening” until I had distance, reflection, and perspective.
Alternative Healthy Response (to anger baiting, gaslighting, and shaming)
1) Examine the big picture, their game, their history, the pattern: recognize it
2) Take stock of your success rate in getting them to see the light
3) Anticipate future episodes
4) Create a buffer zone
5) Individualize your stability; regulate your emotions separate from them
5) Seek support from healthy individuals
Thank you!
Good summary!
"Maddening," for sure! It got me SO mad, I tipped out the door! Out into clean, fresh air and all the Healthy I could carry! Be Healthy! Enjoy Healthy! It's out there! Go get yours!
Could it be the blatant denial of something they most certainly did or said?🤔
As long as I can think I have been raised up by triangulation in my whole family. I did not know the term "triangulation" as a child but I have always been aware of the constant comparison in my family that was driving me mad and has had a significant impact on me in the sense of never feeling enough and constantly doubting myself.
"Franky my dear; i dont give a damn"
Walk away
They should use that line in a movie!!!
@@SurvivingNarcissism you just have to wait 3 hours for it
I live by the motto shared by my mother…It’s better to be alone than in bad company.
That's in the Bible, book of Proverbs
Wise lady ❤
Confronting a Narcissist and pointing out their faults and tactics, fuels them. It gives them more opportunity to gaslight you and point out your faults.
Strongly Opinionated. They believe their opinion is truth, the ONLY truth.
"This is how it's going to be now? Any time I say something you don't like you're going to walk away?" All. The. Time.
"Yes. Every single time. Stay mad."
Sadly the calmer and the more patient I was, the more provocatively he would act. Triangulation, stonewalling, all sprinkled with lots of half truths. I would not react, which led to his rage out of nowhere. Yelling and paranoia. It is inconceivable how strong trauma bond can be. All this abuse and still grieving a hollow soul full of darkness. Thank you Dr C for your support. It is soothing and enlightening.
OMG, this is exactly what my covert narcissist mom would do to me. She would call and through conversation share things that would upset me. This stress from these conversations every week would eventually get passed on to my family in a negative way. It wasn't until my wife put it together that every time I got off the phone with my mom I would be so upset inside that my reactions to everyday things would really get me upset. It was like a light bulb turning on. I stopped answering her calls as a first step and then the text messages started. At first, she would bait me into responding and then start gas lighting me about my late father and if that didn't get a response it would escalate from there. I finally after pleading with her to stop the gaslighting of my late father and other things a covert narcisist does, I had to block her. It has taken four years to get to this point and wish I had done it sooner for my family's helath and mine. Note: I am the Scapegoat of the family with a half sister the Golden Child from my moms first marriage. LOL, sadly both of them are blocked.
Well done to you for standing up for yourself and your family!!! ❤
The end, gotta create DISTANCE between those individuals period.
Physically and emotionally
The constant passive aggressive insults really messed me up. Also the accusations which I could always prove werent true. Then they would try to gaslight me into believing the bs. 3 years out of it and focusing on positivity and self confidence.
I say to myself in my head, your anger is none of my buisness. After many years of narcissistic abuse the best tactic so far and it's hard but I'm doing it - is to have no emotion. No anger shown or even happiness. Just neutral. I don't let them know my buisness either. It leaves them nothing to feed off, drives them nuts but then they already are, they just can't control it inside as much. They are unable to regulate their emotions. Once you understand it's fascinating to watch. Dr Carter's channel is a godsend to us survivors
The best way to handle anger is to stay true to yourself regardless of what the Narc says or does. Even if you have to use force, do it in a way that you know your handling the situation and not with out of control anger. Anger will prevent you from clear thinking every time. 😊
The examples are shockingly, correct… For 3 1/2 decades I did not understand what was happening, and when conflicts over silly things would turn heated because I was just trying to explain my point of view, certain that if I could say things the right way he would understand, They spiraled out of control, and he employed every single one of these tactics. I would cry or try to explain myself or any of the other responses Dr. C mentions… My husband would become infuriated and demand that I ask his forgiveness, apologize… He would tell me something was wrong with me because I couldn’t do that quickly. In reality, I couldn’t figure out what was going on. I would beg him to listen so that we could work it out and in variably, he would say, “this conversation is over. “Then he would go to bed and refuse to speak to me. I can’t tell you how liberating it feels to have these situations described, and to understand what was actually happening. I wasn’t crazy, or a bad or unforgiving person. I wasn’t difficult or unkind or contrary. I was just a human trying to have a relationship with someone who never saw me. Thank you, Dr. C. Having the vocabulary to describe my reality has been so helpful on this healing journey.
"Take stock of your success rate in trying to get them to see the light." So true, funny, and liberating.
During the last few months of that relationship, I lost count of the number of times I walked away from a conversation thinking “that didn’t feel right”. Then when I would confront that person and they would react frustrated with me for being angry or hurt. Many times I heard “it makes no sense why you would be hurt about that”. After 5 years of knowing this person I’ve had enough. They don’t want to be helped and are too committed to entitlement, superiority and control. I’m sad and grieving but have found more peace from detaching from them.
Triangulation is a tactic, where a Narc (or any other toxic person) is frequently comparing you to a third party.
This causes conflict in you on different levels:
1. You are driven into competition, which can increase insecurity in you.
2. It's used to provoke jalousy in you.
3. The gaslighting effect is that you will doubt your own perception of feelings and reality.
5. You will constantly feel inadequate und unworthy so that your self esteem becomes lower.
6. It's also used to isolate you.
7. It can erode your sense of identity and autonomy. You become hyper-focused on meeting the Narcs demands and gaining their approval, losing sight of your own needs and desires.
8. You may develop a fear of abandonment, as you are conditioned to believe that you are replaceable and your worth is contingent on your ability to outperform the third party.
My parents used this tactic to destroy my siblings & me as well as our future relationships
Triangulation is a dynamic that can arise from a conflict between two people. It involves them communicating primarily through a neutral party or otherwise drawing a third person into their own issues, creating a "triangle"
She was my husband's relative and utilized slander and triangulation. She was a snake and good at what she did.
💯💯💯
@@caroleminke6116Mine did too! My brothers are just like them now
I really woke up to the narcissistic treatment I was getting from my ex when I watched the Netflix series Maid, particularly the end of episode 8 & the beginning of episode 9 of which I could relate to in the way I was feeling. For years, I was in this belief that he could still be that dotting person I first met. I'm still obviously traumatised by this relationship as it's been 6 months since he moved out & I still haven't been able to drag myself out to socialise. In saying this, others have been noticing how withdrawn I am & asking if I'm OK & questioning me if they have done something wrong. No, they haven't done anything wrong. But they have always known me to be a very strong person who has handled a lot. I'm still trying to find myself again & trying not to feel guilty for allowing this relationship to change me so much. I'm glad & lucky I still have a couple of really good friends. ❤
If anyone tells me I have a communication problem and they don't, that is a big bright red flag.
If you even give them a minor taste of what they do to you, they become engraged and can't take it, at which point I tell them, "Oh, you can DISH it out but you CAN'T TAKE even a watered down version of what you do? Then stop dishing it out."
Just happened again with a relative. I am done with this BS.
My mother used to hold the family hostage by creating a ridiculous, horrible family fight, we’d all get so upset. I’d just run out the door & go sit in the woods. She publicly made fun of me for doing that. My childhood was pure insanity and terror. Now I’ve got a longterm Covert N partner who uses my ‘anger’ to justify his selfishness. This time, he’s the one who leaves to look for new supply, I stay home and regain as much as peace as I can.
It’s so sad that some people like to live like this,hurting others isn’t ok😎
Cluster B disorders seem to be wired in a way that they cannot distinguish between good and bad. As long as it is attention, then that is good enough.
Oh I just made the gaslighting connection with an argument my former wife had with me. We were at a parade and she asked me to set up our chairs along the sidewalk. But the whole sidewalk had ropes along it. As though the neighbors had reserved the space. And my former wife insisted that the ropes were not there. And that the situation wasn’t happening. And I got very irritated with her. Which is exactly the reaction she wanted. I did not know about narcissism or gaslighting at the time. But I certainly do now!!
Just had that happen to me and it doesn't have to be anything important. Something small and trivial will do for them.
Doc, you're 100% right, it IS the most maddening tactic they use!! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr.........
" They provoke the anger , then shame the anger ". So true Dr Carter - they create the drama, antagonise, provoke, prod, bait and then sit back - its a very sick game. My ex husband did this as though a thrilling Olympic sport.
I am dealing right now with all of that. Still here God please give me tolerance.
It was about my feelings hurt and what had happened, he kept making it about himself, when I told him this is not about you, a few times, he pointed to the door, yes I picked up my things and left. Like he just won't acknowledge me.
One thing a person can do is get away from these monsters just as fast as you can
Yup, and there are far more interesting things to do in this life than focus on broken people that are way too invested in their own suffering.
Absolutely
If you can't easily do this, eg they live in next apartment and you can't afford to and otherwise would not move, go the legal route.
A long, long time ago I recognized the use of the word "just". If you really pay attention most of the time people use the word "just" is to get out of something that they know they did wrong and they want to escape responsibility. "I 'just' wanted to do something nice for the family". "I 'just' want to make sure you're okay." I told my narc husband that was one of my deal breakers. I no longer wanted to hear the word "just" from him anymore.
"I don't remember it like that".
Man you started the video without the dog and I almost cried. Your dog is so chilled. Give him a scratch from me.
This happens just about daily. I'm told I should change my reaction when I tell them how something makes me feel. I've been told my feelings are wrong not how they treat me
Hi Dr Carter! You have just pinpointed a narcissist’s most AGGRAVATING characteristic! It took me SO LONG to just stop rising to the challenge of him attacking me!!! I sometimes feel like an idiot now for not recognizing their evil tactics earlier! But at least I eventually learned to ignore it. Unfortunately I believe being exposed to his evilness changed my character as well. Do you have a video about this?
My father used to say to me, “Oh, you’re mad! Only dogs get mad”. Dinner time was my parents favorite time to disrupt my personal peace.
No contact was my solution.
My challenge is to use the peace that is within me to guide me away from the chaos and to finally learn the lesson of not trying to fix or save or cure the chaos..
I think that sometimes they use gaslighting as a kind sick substitute for interaction. They seem to act like the exchange was some kind of successful. I may, or may not, think or feel whatever, but he -- or she -- seems happy in some way. As if we'd had a good or at least satisfactory interaction.. Crazy. And crazy making.
My narc boss says louldly, where I can hear him..."It's all Dylanna's fault". I replied "I don't have a need to blame others for my mistakes"..... I accept responsibility for my errors, which are few and far between." He laughed and said he wanted to use the reply..... I said, you can use it if it is true. I was fired within a few months, as they realized I was not buying into their superiority.
They poke the bear and then get mad when the bear reacts and deny the hot poker was in their hands. They never take accountability and are always right and you are the one who overreacts. They will never admit to their game playing.
I’m amazed at how “spot on” your insight is into how the narcissist operates, pulling the old “Get You, Gotcha” game. So sad, but very true! I’ve been so encouraged by your videos just knowing I’m not alone! Thank you, Dr. C!!❤
This describes my narc sister perfectly. Being constantly treated in a disrespectful and condescending way by her provoked me to anger once, and she began gaslighting me like you wouldn’t believe. She decided that my one angry response to her constant belittling comments meant that I had anger issues, that I was “seeking vengeance,” etc. (I’ve never had anyone else tell me those things in my life.) After this, I showed a counselor some emails my sister had sent me, and this counselor told me that my sister was a “professional gaslighter.” What makes this situation even harder is that my sister and I share so many mutual friends - extended family members, old family friends, etc., and they all believe that she is the most wonderful and superior person in the world. Seeing others give my sister constant adulation on social media makes me feel like I’m going crazy.
It will all come out in the end. The hard part is the waiting for the end. So when you decide because you know the very truth of it all. Take care of yourself. In your heart and soul you know all that happened and HOW IT ALL HAPPENED. Just walk away and hold your head up people will figure it out in there time. It made me crazy too wondering why don’t people see!!! The real truth. They might or they might not. Just to be grateful and thankful you did. I know it’s hard and feels like your heart is ripped out and stomped on. But know at least you have a heart. 🤗
My experience is that when we ask a question of a narcissist they will either cry or refuse to answer the question that will expose their own attitude. I have removed them from my life because they have worn me out with all their nonsense. I ignore them as much as possible when they drop in once a year while waiting for time to pass so they can leave. Thankfully it is only for a day or two once a year. They come to court my husband and ignore me. When my husband passes my goal is to move and not tell any of them where I went.
Strive for eventual and certain zero contact, many times you are required to back away slowly. Keep things surface level. Avoid any type of commitment with these joyless takers and robbers of life.
Yes! My brother and sister in law do this. They will provoke and then say things like "I hope you can understand that we're trying to move forward in a healthy way because we love and care about you." They'll accuse people of things they didn't do, and then say "I don't know how to talk to you because it just seems to make you angry." 🤦♀️ I finally saw them for the toxic people they are and stepped away from that relationship. Hopefully, the other people they do this to are able to see through it.
I am feeling dizzy watching this and reading comments. I thank God im not dealing with these people in any intimate or family relationships. I said GB to them all. They still creep in as neighbors and clients but at least they are never in my own home. Phew.😊
"All they have to offer is unstable emotion". Spot on.
Thank you for this information. I can't tell you how much your knowledge and empathy have helped me through 2 male Narcissists and 1 female Psychopath. No response is a response. Their crazy making no longer affects my soul.💕
I know this experience very well. Being set-up and then blamed.
Lsughing at them works wonders for me, and never losing your composure makes them embarass themselves. Be sure to tell them that after the tantrum.
I find narcissists to be pretty entertaining and easy to play as fools.
Took a long time to develop filters though.
Be careful with that one. "I'll laugh at them, and they'll embarrass themselves, and that really works for me" is *eerily* similar to "I provoke anger, and then I can shame them for being angry, and then I can feel superior." Don't you think?
It may be understandable for the person on the receiving end of those narcissistic tactics, to turn around and apply exactly the same tactics - but it's a dangerous path to walk down. They weren't born the way they are - they encountered a narcissist, walked down exactly that path- and missed the time to turn around. Don't become them to beat them at their game, it's too high a price to pay.
I would walk away; lock myself in a room . He would always follow screaming at me. Why do they create and love this? ❤
Family of origin trauma bond. THEY thin k love means lording over others, because that is what their mom/dad did to them. It ALL comes from one or both parents/caregivers.
Thank you. I listen to your videos all the time. Good awareness and advice 👏🏽 ❤
You are so welcome
I told my mother once that she was gaslighting me & to please stop. She said "no I don't, you do that to yourself." 😳
This post is truly helpful to me at the moment. Many thanks Dr C! 🙏😊
I know a woman who claims she is 'So very proud" of her husband's calmness after a person who he has been aggressive with reacts negatively. She'll say that person "was JUST BEING IMPOSSIBLE!", totally ignoring her husband's nasty provocations.
"Oh, I was just so proud of him! He didn't let them upset him!!" (What a guy.) UGH. I know the jerk very well.
Sounds as if she is either a lesser narcissist or enabler ....feeding his ego for their gain!
Yeah women are responsible for this …
Ground rules are; you can't control other 💃people, 🏛places and 🎢things, 🤔However, With 🥜Treats, you can ☝️control 🐕🐈🐓🐿🐇🐀🐦🦆🕊animals.😉
I cant believe I found your channel by accident. My N and i used to see you. Love that you are still doing this. You helped me get out and know there wasnt anything i could do to fix it. Thank you so much.
Glad you're here!
My dad throws a hurtful punch, and then will deny that he said that: literally 20nseconds later- he “can’t recall” , then takes some word I said in the interval , and word salads into a totally different topic - deflect , evade, deny, dismiss . And how many times did I try to explain myself? Bring him back to the original point ? 😂, oh Dr c I know you’ll forgive me. No more explanations or attempts to love a guy that clearly has an Empty heart. Not my problem, his loss. I’m amazing. 🎉😂 he’s old and frail
Now, and he lost a loving daughter. I lived the part of him that loved me because at the time I was just a part of him. The extension. He Pushed me away so hard I couldn’t even turn around if I tried.
I love Dr Les Carter. He is an amazing person and very knowledgeable and passionate in this subject. I always enjoy watching your RUclips videos, and I appreciate the very important and useful work you do for others. Thank you. ❤❤❤
Thanks so much!
How bout setting you up for anger and frustration, then once you begin getting upset they change to calm face and say,”I just don’t know where all of this (your anger) is coming from…I’m just trying to help you.” -mom sister duo team, and ex-girlfriend. If I was the problem like they say, then wouldn’t I be getting those kind of responses in all of my other social reactions???
… yes, you’re right about trying to not react… and I’m getting better at ignoring them… but I can only take so much… 24/7 they stalk and provoke… I heard one of them won the lottery and has been paying for the harassment… at work, follow me in the stores and businesses I frequent as well…😡🤬
This is my narc father in a nutshell- I had a stroke a month ago (I was just released a little over two weeks)… not only did he make the whole situation about HIM (even claiming that my mother was to blame for my predicament), he also gaslighted the hell out my wife who was acting as my advocate, claiming “he had the LEGAL right to see me” (I’m 51 years of age and I told my wife that neither parent was wanted at my hospital room, as both would potential make my medical condition worse with their shenanigans- in short, he has NO LEGAL rights unless I grant them).
My father has done NOTHING to further my health in ANY way up to this point (he preferred to be with his one-night stand) and NOW he was to play “father”? Yeah right.
THEN he types out a whole message telling my wife “not to mess with him” when HE was causing the whole mess. This was going on for weeks while I wasn’t sure if I had my use of my limbs being stuck in the hospital for weeks.
The result? I refuse to have anything to do with EITHER parent. My father in particular has shown over the years THAT HE DOES NOT CARE of the family unit HE had a part in creating. So why should he be allowed to use his theatrics to his benefit at MY expense?
They are deeply dangerous people psychologically and emotionally. Especially if they're sociopathic. And when it's an aging parent from whom you cannot escape, you better learn to deal with them in order to stay alive, 'cause they can push you to the brink of insanity. No joke. The abuse is incomprehensible.
I heard of a college professor, who played these kinds of life games with a graduate student. The student reshaped the professor's head with a ball peen hammer at his next meeting with this professor. He put a paper bag over the profs head, as he was still sitting at his desk .. He then hung a sign saying " out to lunch " around his neck. As this society becomes poorer and unwinds, playing narcissist games with people is going to become an extremely dangerous business....