I worked in a mini shop in Germany in the early seventies. We got in a mini whose engine had a funny tick during startup and once it ran, the tick went away. It turned out that the crankshaft had broken diagonally across the center main and once oil pressure came up, it acted as a hydraulic cushion and the engine kept right on running!
Sadly a true fact with regards many of these type trades. Not enough interest from people to want to learn these old trades . Watched a video a few years ago with a gent who restored Smith's gauges etc , he couldn't find anyone interested in taking the time to learn from him
Problem is Stan, when you can forge new cranks and CNC mill new blocks, people are no longer interested in doing what we did in the old days to keep something working. Today it is open your wallet, take all the money out and buy something.
You got a new subscriber. Great work. Growing up in Alaska I had heard more than one story about old timers in the bush cutting cylinders off engines to get back. Similar stories about leather piston rings, bolting broken crank cases back together, etc. Amazing what human ingenuity can accomplish.
Only found the channel in the last couple of days... In which time I've fallen in love with these guys. I can't help my feelings!😸 I just watched him drive his Seven like a jet with afterburner. PS I've owned three Minis and wish I still had one.
Your video's remind me I've had my ladder up against the wrong wall for most of my working life. Now my arms are nigh on useless and I can no longer throw a car into a bend like I used to with my 1340cc hillclimb mini whilst grinning from ear to ear. I come from a family of Engineering jigglers and Foundry men, and have cut and ground and welded and blended and bored all sorts of engines and gearboxes and shells up to around 25 years old. Then my life changed and i wandered off into Construction, where I became chief bodger for a large Company, but I'm not allowed to put it on my CV says the jobcentre, even though it's a major skill. I think we can do it, exactly, you'll never know else.
Hi Ivan, I'm a friend of Jeremy he recommended I check out your projects. I'm loving your Mini engine project. Can't wait to see it running. Keep up the great work.
@@PurityVendetta As a torque increase you could graft in a Honda Insight Hybrid motor that`s sandwiched between the block and bellhousing in it`s original home.... just a thought....
I didn’t realise you had a few episodes up on my last comment. You a a very talented pair of chaps! I’m very envious of your tool collection and workshop space also! Well done 👍
I do rather have a soft spot for the 'Chipmaster'. It's the lathe I learned to screw cut on. You had my attention within seconds as someone else who can be bothered to build modified engines in the Alan Dudley Ward style. I still learn something new every day. I'm in the process of building two different variations of my Norton 88 engines to go into my Domiracer Lowboy replica chassis.
Just a tip Ivan... you can use liquid paper as an antiflux... you can accurately paint it on and it won't burn off but can be scrubbed off. Brass won't flow where it is painted even with flux.
Excellent video, it's fantastic to see people who can actually think on their feet and use logic to build this engine. If memory serves, the Yamaha TDM900 uses a crank with the pistons rising and falling in opposite directions, it can sound like a v-twin. My Yamaha XS250 from 1979 was the same.
I enjoyed this video as its done in real time and explained in layman's terms. A lot of videos glibly talk about "machining the crankshaft" as if it's a 5 minute job, this video explains all the work involved to get there! Regards from Australia.
The experience of these guys is amazing! The very idea of re-constructing a crankshaft (of all things) would be to big to contemplate, even if I had a workshop full of machine tools! Well done to all involved for your audacity and skill.
Always wonder what Captain Picard was doing after he retired from Starfleet . Lol. All kidding aside thanks for sharing your knowledge and content. Cheers 🍻
Hi great viewing chaps so thanks very much for making the effort it's superb entertainment, just an observation on mine that i haven't noticed you drill the oilway through to the big ends or heard any mention of it, maybe you did it off camera anyway keep on going and can't wait for the next video.
Look at Alan Millyard videos he has joined several crankshaft and cam shafts O on motor bike engine's. Think 360 degree is needed, forget the distributor go for wasted spark as in Citroen 2cv. I was made in 1941 great year for tinkerers!
What is Millyard doing that these men aren’t? I see both parties taking (in some cases) useless obsolete parts and turning them into something unique .
Having spent 25 years rebuilding, remanufacturing, straightening, welding and grinding crankshafts I don't see this one lasting very long. Ok for a short test maybe, I'd be amazed if it ran more than a very short time under load. I'll be watching!
Pressed up cranks were used on motorcycles etc for years if they ran in ball or roller bearings. They only gave trouble if they were highly tuned to race. He is only going to run it in Light use. But like you correctly say, let's see how long it holds together.
Very interesting project Ivan. You gentlemen have very impressive engineering skills. Would'nt it be easier to just take two plug leads off the A30? :)
Here's a crazy idea for you, I used toi have a Lotus 6 with a 1100 Morris Minor engine. To make engine servicing easier, a standard Mini radiator was mounted directly to the front of the engine, alla Mini, which meant the engine could be bench tested without a lot of additional add-ons. Like I said Crazy idea.
Bloody lovely job on the crank Ivan I am very impressed! It's amazing what you can do with a vertical mill and a lathe! And of course someone who knows how to use them. Is that a Colchester Lathe? If so Student or Bantam? Such a pity they went out of business, their lathes went all over the world. Where about are you based? I just love your "Shed" mine is a little smaller, just 8 feet by six and a half, with a Chinese 12x19" lathe / vertical mill set up. But I get by! Looking forward to the rest of this 2 pot mini engine build.
As someone else mentioned I suggest that you look at Alan Millyard's videos, or even contact him, he's done a lot of this sort of thing. His technique works on much more sophisticated motorcycle engines that are made to much closer tolerances without the need for heat etc.
I did build-ups, repairs and adjustments to motorcycle and snowmobile cranks and it always seemed like silly work. Tedious and prone to failure. It was a huge relief when splined crank parts came around. This crank should work great for 35 hp.
Saw a film on the mini years ago that mentioned this engine, my memory not clear on the scant details offered but have a feeling these engines set up like a triumph speed twin.
Do they not have custom crank-grinding shops in the UK that can mill a complete crank from billet stock? They have them here in the US, and I believe in Canada too, making cranks for performance engines.
I might have missed it but why have you gone for one up and one down rather than both crank pins in the same location. If it works it will sound nice with an uneven beat.
Thinking about it some more while gardening! if the crank pins are not both on the same side will you not have to use a four cylinder distributer and use two leads at 90 degrees from each other rather than the one with two leads at 180 degrees?
Volume will hopefully be better on the next videos; you’re not the first person to say that now. Thanks for the input and thanks for tuning in - we’re glad you enjoyed it 👍🏽
I think the crank needed to have crank pins on the same plane so that firing occurs every 360°... A four stroke engine takes 720° to complete one cycle. On this engine, if we say No. 1 cylinder fires at 0° of the 720° cycle then the second cylinder fires at either 180° or 540° because of the big end pins being opposed on this 2 cylinder engine
Given that the distributor is 360 degree firing, I'd guess both pistons should rise and fall together. A 180 degree crank would have an odd firing interval and that dissy cap won't work
I am a longtime fan of the A series, indeed in my little three wheeler I have the A series's lesser cousin the Reliant 850cc which itself developed from the common ancestor of the 7 sidevalve motor. Dunno why but your face looks really familiar and going to do me head in as to why, thinking accent is like my own South London or somewhere thereabouts?
I take it you do understand that it won't fire every 360 deg. Triumph twins had the crank throws on the same axis. You will get firing at 0 deg then 180 or 540 deg.
Interesting to see how this develops.! Never seen a twin cyl 'A' series engine before. Comments about the 180 crank seem pertinent, never seen a British 4 stroke vertical twin use such a configuration. The only 180 crank 4 stroke engine I know of was an early Honda vertical twin 'CB' motorcycle engine, had to have chain driven counter weights to offset the imbalance, was a pig of a motor, the bike got the death wobbles up at any speed over 80kmh. And what of the lovely new (Lucas I assume) twin contact distributor, unless the contacts internally are offset towards each other 45 degrees, how's that going to work.? But you're right, the original photo looks a bit sus, don't see how they could compact a mini gearbox to fit under that motor. An early case of photo-shopping perhaps.?
CB350 (1968~74) or the later 1974~77 CB250/CB360 didn't have 'Lanchester' shafts (rotating balance shafts) That happened 1978 with the CB250/CB400 twins (3 valve motors) and the later 350 from about 1985(?) Multiple reasons for 'death wobbles' on early Honda CB250/CB350 around 50mph (80Km/hr) but generally poor maintenance and probably pitted steering bearings plus wrong (or worn out?) tyres,(almost always, too wide for wheel rims) too low or high tyre pressures, worn out swing arm bearings and leaking rear shocks are just a few (bent or seized up forks, loose spokes,worn out wheel bearings a few more reasons) I've built several capable of 120mph and while not particularly good handling they are no more dangerous than any other 1970's motorcycle
@@1crazypj Whenever they had or didn't have balance shafts is irrelevant, a 180 degree crank on a 4 stroke twin is out of balance, thus making a crappy motor, which the CB was.!
@@stuartd8233I think you have some sort of bias against one of the most successful Honda engines ever made? (over 3.5 million sold) I don't particularly like the 350 engine and it did have faults but it wasn't as crappy as anything which was supplied with drip trays to catch the oil leaks as delivered from factory (HD) 350 wasn't a crappy engine, but, it wasn't a Triumph or Hartley Davidson either and was responsible for the mismanagement of both companies being shown for what it actually was. (or, how Edward Turner, et.al. destroyed BSA and Ronald Reagan saved Harley) A 180 crank has far less vibration than a 360 crank, in fact primary forces cancel out but the rocking couple is very high and the wider apart the crank pins are the worse it gets. I have a couple of early 1950's BSA A10's (pretty much exactly same engine as Ariel Huntmaster650 twin) and know as much as I want about 180 and 360 twins then learned much more than I wanted to when I started messing around with Yamaha XS 650's. A 360 degree twin has a massive out of balance force, far worse than any 180 degree twin. The main difference will be how it's dealt with. 360 degree twins can set the balance factor so the vibration is more in line with the wheelbase (horizontal) whereas 180 twins will always have the 'rocking couple' in line with the cylinders. Yamaha, when 'flat tracking' XS 650 (motors bored to 750cc) experimented with various crank angles including 90 degree phasing (270 crank angle) as used on the XT750 and TDM850 parallel twin which had balancer shafts to counteract the vibration from the 'rock'. the crank angle offset was so all the primary out of balance forces cancel out, as in a 90 degree v-twin. There is a lot written about Phil Irvin's experiments with Triumph engines but vast majority completely misunderstand exactly why he didn't re-phase to 90 degrees and used 76 degree offset (Yamaha is very easy to offset at 83 degrees due to splined flywheel web) BTW, you are the one who brought up 350 Honda's and balance shafts, I'm just putting things straight.
@@1crazypj No bias, just fact, as I previously said a 180 crank 4 cycle vertical twin is out of balance.! No amount of 'wizz bangery' is going to change that.! Is simple engineering principles. Loads of designers have experimented with different configurations, it's how we learn. And if any of these designs are successful they would be on the market now.! And as well you know the issues related to western production at that time was quality, not design. 3k, 3m or 3b sales does not equate to good design.! Whilst I made no mention of quality issues, at the time it was vastly superior with the Japanese manufacturers, of this there is no doubt. But if the 350 was such a beautifully balanced motor why did it need balance shafts.? A pig in lipstick, no matter how much lipstick is applied is still a pig.! END OF
@@stuartd8233 END OF.............what? Sorry, I have to add just a little more. I like messing with engines, all engines (including diesels) and think this is a great project, very interesting seeing probably the only Mini Twin in existence? As this is about Mini's, the head and ports were pretty poor design even though it was touted 'ground breaking design by Weslake' around 1958 ( I read about it somewhere) Maybe from a production standpoint but definitely not performance-wise. I never said 350 was a beautifully balanced engine just it was better than 360 degree, It has a very annoying high frequency vibration which is way more annoying than a 360 twin but IS much lower amplitude I'm fully aware of the fact so you don't need to reiterate. Japanese 'quality' was not as good as the rest of the 'developed industrialised nations' at the time as they didn't have the raw materials (still have limited natural resources but do have more money now to buy them) What they did have was a design that worked with the limitations of materials. Parallel twins were most common so that is what they copied and improved on, mainly design improvements using pretty poor materials (which is why CB350 weight is almost same as 650 Triumph and fuel 'economy' worse) I trained as a precision machinist in mid 1970's. At the time 'we' (Britain, USA, most of Europe, Australia, etc) were working to a 5% failure rate for production manufacture with tolerances in the 0.003"~0.005" range. Reducing that to 3% resulted in strikes and walk outs (although I was regularly doing production work to 0.003mm @97% at the time) The Japanese at the time were working to 0.001% failure at the same tolerance using 'semi skilled' factory workers plus putting almost 80% of profits back into R&D. Even further 'off topic' my uncle was a POW of Japanese in WW-II but I don't think we should go there
A very interesting project there. just one question, how are you going to run the ignition system for a 90 degree firing order? Are you planning to use two leads from a four cylinder distributor 90 degrees apart? It should sound nice with a V beat in that configuration..
With the equipment you have it may have been easier to fabricate the entire crankshaft from steel plate and bar? I've worked on motorcycles since 1968 ish although not 'professionally' until late 70's and done thousands of pressed up motorcycle cranks in one two and three cylinder engines. (and a few dozen Harley Davidson V-twins) It would have been pretty simple to set up mill to bore the Salmson head your doing for new valve seats as I see you have a boring head to get accurate sizes. It would have been more common to fit bronze seats in 1950's 'race' engine
I reckon your engine will sound like a Harley...Fire, Fire, exhaust, inlet... I wonder why you didn't set the crankpins in the same plane, so that it would fire evenly? Great project though :-)
I thought that myself, surely that would introduce a lot of vibration as well as uneven power impulses, a staggered crank setup would be ok as a two stroke
@@davethornewell7417a 360 twin has even firing but is as badly balanced as a single. A 180 twin is uneven firing but has smaller out of balance forces!
@@markscully2342 My 650 BSA has a parallel twin setup, and the forces on the crank need to be considered for an uneven setup. I would not do as has been done, but as I said, a great project :-)
well i am kind of confused if this mini was 2 stroke engine rotating the other piston by 180 dergee would make sense but if the engine in normal 4 stroker wouldn't thet work like spark, spatk, nothing, notning (or spark nothing spark nothing)? i mean every engine i know with only 2 cylinders next to each other from fiat 500 for example have the two pistons work in synch and fire alternately on each revolution so there is no dead strokes i know it all depends on a cam shafts but i am really corious how would it work and what parts do you have and what you going to make from scratch
It is a mini a series engine. A 4 stroke, 4 cylinder. Essentially what they appear to be converting it into is a 2 cylinder, 4 stroke in a rocking twin configuration. Normally they tend to be 360° parallel configuration. The issue I see is that many rocking twins employ a contrarotating balance shaft. But we'll have to see how it works.
Hi you’re right! The 500 engine is a two bearing though so plenty of room for a big counter balance. This engine is 3 bearing with hardly any room - not to mention we don’t have the proper equipment. This is more of an experiment really and we will be just as curious how this runs as you are! You’re right about the sparking, it will certainly sound strange! Hopefully it doesn’t shake itself to pieces..
@@DGBcars fun fact polish(as for poland not polishing) shead mechanics discovered a way to install parts from multiple angines into fiat 126 crank case to make it much more powerfull ;) swaping fiar 126 bis/chinquecento 700 crankshaft, polish cargo van "żuk" connecting rods and slightly machined vw bug 1600 cylinders and heads just to make 800 cc from 600(or 650) stock , so i love to see those one of a kind conversion come to life i hope your small engine won't shake itself apart and that your crank will held up to the abuse, i kind of cryed a bit when you transfered hole patterns from the flange to the engine block and not the other way around, i hope there will be no leaks from the water jacket
Oh, we are going for ‘Bob bob bob’ instead of ‘bobob bobob bobob’ like a Harley. Well, CAT donkey engines were even firing so it will run okay. Might be like a four wheel whacker plate though :D
We’re planning on doing a Q&A soon due to all the comments but yes you’re right. Look at previous comments that have said the same thing. It’s due to the balancing as we don’t have the correct tools and just want to get it running on a budget. We will see what it sounds like! It’s more of an experiment than anything really
You should have got Allen Millyard involved, he could probably do it in his sleep! Have you thought about inviting him over? He could ride over on his 5 litre v-twin.
@@DGBcars You just need to add more bob weights to the webs. There are calculations online of how much to offset it using the weight of the con rods and pistons and it can be done statically. As part of the rod is rotating and the other end is reciprocating I believe its roughly 2/3 the weight of piston and rod (but don't quote me on that).
Call me daft, but surely on a 2 cylinder 4 stroke engine, both pistons need to be going up n down at the same time... although I guess it would be an extremely rough running engine, but if they are at opposite ends of the stroke they won't fire at equal degrees of rotation.... Not the best explanation, but hopefully it makes sense???
Авто/Мото
I worked in a mini shop in Germany in the early seventies. We got in a mini whose engine had a funny tick during startup and once it ran, the tick went away. It turned out that the crankshaft had broken diagonally across the center main and once oil pressure came up, it acted as a hydraulic cushion and the engine kept right on running!
Old school skills and love at what you are doing ...sadly a dying art now... great stuff guys long may you tinker
Sadly a true fact with regards many of these type trades. Not enough interest from people to want to learn these old trades . Watched a video a few years ago with a gent who restored Smith's gauges etc , he couldn't find anyone interested in taking the time to learn from him
Problem is Stan, when you can forge new cranks and CNC mill new blocks, people are no longer interested in doing what we did in the old days to keep something working. Today it is open your wallet, take all the money out and buy something.
Geez that Ben Kingsley is a talented bloke, he has turned his hand to making crankshafts!
Not working as 4 stroke.
That's captain Picard!
@@jjvthe it is 4 stroke
Those 4 cylinder A30s were overpowered! 2 pots sounds about right for the handling and brakes.
You got a new subscriber.
Great work.
Growing up in Alaska I had heard more than one story about old timers in the bush cutting cylinders off engines to get back.
Similar stories about leather piston rings, bolting broken crank cases back together, etc. Amazing what human ingenuity can accomplish.
No idea what your doing half the time, but i find it fasinating and inspiring.. brillinat videoas,, thanks for making and posting
2 Thou for a pre 1960 crank is better than factory. Excellent! I do the same but in the valve electronics world. Good men, keep it up.
As an A series builder I am loving everything you are doing. Fantastic work Gentleman.
I’d say give it a try, it would be interesting to hear what it sounds like.
Only found the channel in the last couple of days... In which time I've fallen in love with these guys.
I can't help my feelings!😸
I just watched him drive his Seven like a jet with afterburner.
PS I've owned three Minis and wish I still had one.
Your video's remind me I've had my ladder up against the wrong wall for most of my working life. Now my arms are nigh on useless and I can no longer throw a car into a bend like I used to with my 1340cc hillclimb mini whilst grinning from ear to ear.
I come from a family of Engineering jigglers and Foundry men, and have cut and ground and welded and blended and bored all sorts of engines and gearboxes and shells up to around 25 years old. Then my life changed and i wandered off into Construction, where I became chief bodger for a large Company, but I'm not allowed to put it on my CV says the jobcentre, even though it's a major skill.
I think we can do it, exactly, you'll never know else.
These guys will never say their bored. Real education.
They’re
Hi Ivan,
I'm a friend of Jeremy he recommended I check out your projects.
I'm loving your Mini engine project. Can't wait to see it running. Keep up the great work.
Super grandfathers - they have superpowers to make everything. Respect!
Some of us are quietly carrying on the tradition. Just because you don't see us don't think we don't exist 😉
@@PurityVendetta As a torque increase you could graft in a Honda Insight Hybrid motor that`s sandwiched between the block and bellhousing in it`s original home.... just a thought....
I didn’t realise you had a few episodes up on my last comment. You a a very talented pair of chaps! I’m very envious of your tool collection and workshop space also! Well done 👍
I do rather have a soft spot for the 'Chipmaster'. It's the lathe I learned to screw cut on. You had my attention within seconds as someone else who can be bothered to build modified engines in the Alan Dudley Ward style. I still learn something new every day. I'm in the process of building two different variations of my Norton 88 engines to go into my Domiracer Lowboy replica chassis.
Just a tip Ivan... you can use liquid paper as an antiflux... you can accurately paint it on and it won't burn off but can be scrubbed off. Brass won't flow where it is painted even with flux.
Excellent video, it's fantastic to see people who can actually think on their feet and use logic to build this engine. If memory serves, the Yamaha TDM900 uses a crank with the pistons rising and falling in opposite directions, it can sound like a v-twin. My Yamaha XS250 from 1979 was the same.
I enjoyed this video as its done in real time and explained in layman's terms. A lot of videos glibly talk about "machining the crankshaft" as if it's a 5 minute job, this video explains all the work involved to get there! Regards from Australia.
Just watched a few of the videos', absolutely brilliant, keep doing them!
these guys are truly old school fabricators... love it! can't wait to see more
The experience of these guys is amazing! The very idea of re-constructing a crankshaft (of all things) would be to big to contemplate, even if I had a workshop full of machine tools! Well done to all involved for your audacity and skill.
That is some amazing work!
Why do they bury the crank in what looks like sand after the work?
Sorry - not very familiar with the old-school methods. ;)
@@VauxhallViva1975 I think it's to slow the cooling process and keep the temper (hardness) in the metal. That's my guess
@@shedbythetracks Thanks. :)
That's a lot of work. Can't help thinking it would have been easyer to make it from scratch using something like En8 flat plate.
Love this guy, Just fun to watch.
Always wonder what Captain Picard was doing after he retired from Starfleet . Lol. All kidding aside thanks for sharing your knowledge and content. Cheers 🍻
Just fascinating watching this come together. Keep at it.
Hi great viewing chaps so thanks very much for making the effort it's superb entertainment, just an observation on mine that i haven't noticed you drill the oilway through to the big ends or heard any mention of it, maybe you did it off camera anyway keep on going and can't wait for the next video.
Look at Alan Millyard videos he has joined several crankshaft and cam shafts O on motor bike engine's. Think 360 degree is needed, forget the distributor go for wasted spark as in Citroen 2cv. I was made in 1941 great year for tinkerers!
Millyard is a ruiner of good, decent engines. These men are doing something useful.
What is Millyard doing that these men aren’t?
I see both parties taking
(in some cases) useless obsolete parts and turning them into something unique .
Watching you Coble the crank I kept wondering how it would handle all the torque. Than remembered the size and type engine. Good ideas.
Fine tuning the workpiece with the chuck key....love it
Your a great guy by the way very skilled
This is brilliant. Binging this project.
Having spent 25 years rebuilding, remanufacturing, straightening, welding and grinding crankshafts I don't see this one lasting very long. Ok for a short test maybe, I'd be amazed if it ran more than a very short time under load. I'll be watching!
Pressed up cranks were used on motorcycles etc for years if they ran in ball or roller bearings. They only gave trouble if they were highly tuned to race.
He is only going to run it in Light use. But like you correctly say, let's see how long it holds together.
Very interesting project Ivan. You gentlemen have very impressive engineering skills. Would'nt it be easier to just take two plug leads off the A30? :)
You'd have to take the plugs out too, to get rid of the redundant compression & not chuck fuel down the exhaust.
Brazing crankshaft parts together with help of a center bolt - very interesting. Did a similar job by using Hirth-joints. Engine runs well...
i just dont know what too say. i am so amazed by die skills. i can't wait for what comes next
Now that's engineering at its best!
this is a good show, real good to watch, maybe the mic could be a bit louder as the machine/background noise is pretty high
When this man says hopefully I believe him!
Here's a crazy idea for you, I used toi have a Lotus 6 with a 1100 Morris Minor engine. To make engine servicing easier, a standard Mini radiator was mounted directly to the front of the engine, alla Mini, which meant the engine could be bench tested without a lot of additional add-ons. Like I said Crazy idea.
Ivan's roped in his poor long suffering mate, ' the impossible takes a while & miracles take a bit longer'
Lovely project. I'm enjoying this a lot.
Bloody marvellous viewing
Amazing stuff guys, loving your content :)
Somebody needs to donate for the clip on type of mikes like newscasters wear so we can hear you when you are moving around.
Bloody lovely job on the crank Ivan I am very impressed! It's amazing what you can do with a vertical mill and a lathe! And of course someone who knows how to use them. Is that a Colchester Lathe? If so Student or Bantam? Such a pity they went out of business, their lathes went all over the world. Where about are you based? I just love your "Shed" mine is a little smaller, just 8 feet by six and a half, with a Chinese 12x19" lathe / vertical mill set up. But I get by! Looking forward to the rest of this 2 pot mini engine build.
As someone else mentioned I suggest that you look at Alan Millyard's videos, or even contact him, he's done a lot of this sort of thing. His technique works on much more sophisticated motorcycle engines that are made to much closer tolerances without the need for heat etc.
I did build-ups, repairs and adjustments to motorcycle and snowmobile cranks and it always seemed like silly work. Tedious and prone to failure. It was a huge relief when splined crank parts came around. This crank should work great for 35 hp.
Ivan Luc Picard
Great project. Make it so.
Saw a film on the mini years ago that mentioned this engine, my memory not clear on the scant details offered but have a feeling these engines set up like a triumph speed twin.
Great work chaps did you drill oil holes for the big ends to get oil feeds from the mains ??.
"Where else has it gone?" . . . made me have a good laugh.
I really wished i could use a Lathe. I was shown in metal work class in the early/mid 80s how to use one but have forgotten now.
Do they not have custom crank-grinding shops in the UK that can mill a complete crank from billet stock? They have them here in the US, and I believe in Canada too, making cranks for performance engines.
"is it hot?" "Touch and see" "it's HOT!. Your blood's worth bottling chaps.
I might have missed it but why have you gone for one up and one down rather than both crank pins in the same location. If it works it will sound nice with an uneven beat.
Thinking about it some more while gardening! if the crank pins are not both on the same side will you not have to use a four cylinder distributer and use two leads at 90 degrees from each other rather than the one with two leads at 180 degrees?
silver soldered the crank together. HP and the lower rev. range will help things .What about the oil passages through the crank to the bearings ?
Such great work - I so admire your spirit of inventiveness! But please turn up the dialogue!
Volume will hopefully be better on the next videos; you’re not the first person to say that now. Thanks for the input and thanks for tuning in - we’re glad you enjoyed it 👍🏽
I think the crank needed to have crank pins on the same plane so that firing occurs every 360°... A four stroke engine takes 720° to complete one cycle. On this engine, if we say No. 1 cylinder fires at 0° of the 720° cycle then the second cylinder fires at either 180° or 540° because of the big end pins being opposed on this 2 cylinder engine
Given that the distributor is 360 degree firing, I'd guess both pistons should rise and fall together. A 180 degree crank would have an odd firing interval and that dissy cap won't work
I agree. It should be a parallel twin, not an odd-fire twin.
Now just watched 2 experts These men could fit a engine in a camel 🐪
Talk to Allen Millyard about cutting and welding engines up.
As soon as I saw this, I thought Allen Millyard !!
@@Dave.Wilson millyard would cut it apart with his Swiss army knife 😂
I'm concerned(?) the 180 degrees cam is made for a two up two down crank.
I am a longtime fan of the A series, indeed in my little three wheeler I have the A series's lesser cousin the Reliant 850cc which itself developed from the common ancestor of the 7 sidevalve motor. Dunno why but your face looks really familiar and going to do me head in as to why, thinking accent is like my own South London or somewhere thereabouts?
Legend .....
Here's an idea:
Just take a couple of pistons out of an ordinary 4 cylinder engine to experiment & develop your 2 cylinder version.
I take it you do understand that it won't fire every 360 deg. Triumph twins had the crank throws on the same axis. You will get firing at 0 deg then 180 or 540 deg.
Interesting to see how this develops.! Never seen a twin cyl 'A' series engine before. Comments about the 180 crank seem pertinent, never seen a British 4 stroke vertical twin use such a configuration. The only 180 crank 4 stroke engine I know of was an early Honda vertical twin 'CB' motorcycle engine, had to have chain driven counter weights to offset the imbalance, was a pig of a motor, the bike got the death wobbles up at any speed over 80kmh. And what of the lovely new (Lucas I assume) twin contact distributor, unless the contacts internally are offset towards each other 45 degrees, how's that going to work.? But you're right, the original photo looks a bit sus, don't see how they could compact a mini gearbox to fit under that motor. An early case of photo-shopping perhaps.?
CB350 (1968~74) or the later 1974~77 CB250/CB360 didn't have 'Lanchester' shafts (rotating balance shafts)
That happened 1978 with the CB250/CB400 twins (3 valve motors) and the later 350 from about 1985(?)
Multiple reasons for 'death wobbles' on early Honda CB250/CB350 around 50mph (80Km/hr) but generally poor maintenance and probably pitted steering bearings plus wrong (or worn out?) tyres,(almost always, too wide for wheel rims) too low or high tyre pressures, worn out swing arm bearings and leaking rear shocks are just a few (bent or seized up forks, loose spokes,worn out wheel bearings a few more reasons)
I've built several capable of 120mph and while not particularly good handling they are no more dangerous than any other 1970's motorcycle
@@1crazypj Whenever they had or didn't have balance shafts is irrelevant, a 180 degree crank on a 4 stroke twin is out of balance, thus making a crappy motor, which the CB was.!
@@stuartd8233I think you have some sort of bias against one of the most successful Honda engines ever made? (over 3.5 million sold)
I don't particularly like the 350 engine and it did have faults but it wasn't as crappy as anything which was supplied with drip trays to catch the oil leaks as delivered from factory (HD)
350 wasn't a crappy engine, but, it wasn't a Triumph or Hartley Davidson either and was responsible for the mismanagement of both companies being shown for what it actually was. (or, how Edward Turner, et.al. destroyed BSA and Ronald Reagan saved Harley)
A 180 crank has far less vibration than a 360 crank, in fact primary forces cancel out but the rocking couple is very high and the wider apart the crank pins are the worse it gets. I have a couple of early 1950's BSA A10's (pretty much exactly same engine as Ariel Huntmaster650 twin) and know as much as I want about 180 and 360 twins then learned much more than I wanted to when I started messing around with Yamaha XS 650's.
A 360 degree twin has a massive out of balance force, far worse than any 180 degree twin. The main difference will be how it's dealt with.
360 degree twins can set the balance factor so the vibration is more in line with the wheelbase (horizontal) whereas 180 twins will always have the 'rocking couple' in line with the cylinders.
Yamaha, when 'flat tracking' XS 650 (motors bored to 750cc) experimented with various crank angles including 90 degree phasing (270 crank angle) as used on the XT750 and TDM850 parallel twin which had balancer shafts to counteract the vibration from the 'rock'. the crank angle offset was so all the primary out of balance forces cancel out, as in a 90 degree v-twin.
There is a lot written about Phil Irvin's experiments with Triumph engines but vast majority completely misunderstand exactly why he didn't re-phase to 90 degrees and used 76 degree offset (Yamaha is very easy to offset at 83 degrees due to splined flywheel web)
BTW, you are the one who brought up 350 Honda's and balance shafts, I'm just putting things straight.
@@1crazypj No bias, just fact, as I previously said a 180 crank 4 cycle vertical twin is out of balance.! No amount of 'wizz bangery' is going to change that.! Is simple engineering principles. Loads of designers have experimented with different configurations, it's how we learn. And if any of these designs are successful they would be on the market now.! And as well you know the issues related to western production at that time was quality, not design. 3k, 3m or 3b sales does not equate to good design.! Whilst I made no mention of quality issues, at the time it was vastly superior with the Japanese manufacturers, of this there is no doubt.
But if the 350 was such a beautifully balanced motor why did it need balance shafts.?
A pig in lipstick, no matter how much lipstick is applied is still a pig.! END OF
@@stuartd8233 END OF.............what?
Sorry, I have to add just a little more.
I like messing with engines, all engines (including diesels) and think this is a great project, very interesting seeing probably the only Mini Twin in existence?
As this is about Mini's, the head and ports were pretty poor design even though it was touted 'ground breaking design by Weslake' around 1958 ( I read about it somewhere)
Maybe from a production standpoint but definitely not performance-wise.
I never said 350 was a beautifully balanced engine just it was better than 360 degree, It has a very annoying high frequency vibration which is way more annoying than a 360 twin but IS much lower amplitude
I'm fully aware of the fact so you don't need to reiterate.
Japanese 'quality' was not as good as the rest of the 'developed industrialised nations' at the time as they didn't have the raw materials (still have limited natural resources but do have more money now to buy them)
What they did have was a design that worked with the limitations of materials.
Parallel twins were most common so that is what they copied and improved on, mainly design improvements using pretty poor materials (which is why CB350 weight is almost same as 650 Triumph and fuel 'economy' worse)
I trained as a precision machinist in mid 1970's.
At the time 'we' (Britain, USA, most of Europe, Australia, etc) were working to a 5% failure rate for production manufacture with tolerances in the 0.003"~0.005" range. Reducing that to 3% resulted in strikes and walk outs (although I was regularly doing production work to 0.003mm @97% at the time)
The Japanese at the time were working to 0.001% failure at the same tolerance using 'semi skilled' factory workers plus putting almost 80% of profits back into R&D.
Even further 'off topic' my uncle was a POW of Japanese in WW-II but I don't think we should go there
You guys need to meet Allen Millyard, a collaboration would be really good.
Any reason you went for a 180 degree configuration rather than a 360 ?
covid and another youtube rabbit hole to explore. love the old cars and guys messing around. google Ivan, it's a good read.
Was the original engine 180? In have thought it would have been 360.
A very interesting project there. just one question, how are you going to run the ignition system for a 90 degree firing order?
Are you planning to use two leads from a four cylinder distributor 90 degrees apart? It should sound nice with a V beat in that configuration..
Previous episode they showed the distributor. ruclips.net/video/XlqhCA9NQmA/видео.html at about 7:11
@@dougabbott8261 That's what I thought, except it looks like a 180 degree distributor which won't work with a 90 degree engine.
@@alasdair4161 You are right on the money. Later on they use a different distributor after coming to the conclusion you have made.
Great vid
Why have you made the crank with 180 degree offset.
Very interesting. It will have an uneven sound. Must be a reason
balance.
With the equipment you have it may have been easier to fabricate the entire crankshaft from steel plate and bar?
I've worked on motorcycles since 1968 ish although not 'professionally' until late 70's and done thousands of pressed up motorcycle cranks in one two and three cylinder engines. (and a few dozen Harley Davidson V-twins)
It would have been pretty simple to set up mill to bore the Salmson head your doing for new valve seats as I see you have a boring head to get accurate sizes. It would have been more common to fit bronze seats in 1950's 'race' engine
Seems to be no discussion about the bearing oil ways, or are you going to drill them through later?
We know what you’re saying, but the holes were still there from the center main to the two big ends!
So, is the engine almost the same as an "A series", just 2 cylinders?
I'm wondering why you joined the front & back at the crank pin rather than at the center journal.
I reckon your engine will sound like a Harley...Fire, Fire, exhaust, inlet... I wonder why you didn't set the crankpins in the same plane, so that it would fire evenly? Great project though :-)
I thought that myself, surely that would introduce a lot of vibration as well as uneven power impulses, a staggered crank setup would be ok as a two stroke
@@davethornewell7417a 360 twin has even firing but is as badly balanced as a single. A 180 twin is uneven firing but has smaller out of balance forces!
@@markscully2342 My 650 BSA has a parallel twin setup, and the forces on the crank need to be considered for an uneven setup. I would not do as has been done, but as I said, a great project :-)
chris whitehouse...there is a mention of your 2 cylinder A series on Wikipedia
What about the oil supply to the big ends?
well i am kind of confused
if this mini was 2 stroke engine rotating the other piston by 180 dergee would make sense but if the engine in normal 4 stroker wouldn't thet work like spark, spatk, nothing, notning (or spark nothing spark nothing)? i mean every engine i know with only 2 cylinders next to each other from fiat 500 for example have the two pistons work in synch and fire alternately on each revolution so there is no dead strokes
i know it all depends on a cam shafts but i am really corious how would it work and what parts do you have and what you going to make from scratch
It is a mini a series engine. A 4 stroke, 4 cylinder. Essentially what they appear to be converting it into is a 2 cylinder, 4 stroke in a rocking twin configuration. Normally they tend to be 360° parallel configuration. The issue I see is that many rocking twins employ a contrarotating balance shaft. But we'll have to see how it works.
I have the same doubts
Hi you’re right! The 500 engine is a two bearing though so plenty of room for a big counter balance. This engine is 3 bearing with hardly any room - not to mention we don’t have the proper equipment. This is more of an experiment really and we will be just as curious how this runs as you are! You’re right about the sparking, it will certainly sound strange! Hopefully it doesn’t shake itself to pieces..
@@DGBcars fun fact
polish(as for poland not polishing) shead mechanics discovered a way to install parts from multiple angines into fiat 126 crank case to make it much more powerfull ;)
swaping fiar 126 bis/chinquecento 700 crankshaft, polish cargo van "żuk" connecting rods and slightly machined vw bug 1600 cylinders and heads just to make 800 cc from 600(or 650) stock , so i love to see those one of a kind conversion come to life
i hope your small engine won't shake itself apart and that your crank will held up to the abuse, i kind of cryed a bit when you transfered hole patterns from the flange to the engine block and not the other way around, i hope there will be no leaks from the water jacket
You could slow the rpm down a bit on them boring bars.
Ivan; just find an A 30, and pull two plug leads !!. " Ivan Heath Robinson " Hahaha
I’m lost here, why isn’t the first throw at the back and the flywheel flange the same bit of crank?
Oh, we are going for ‘Bob bob bob’ instead of ‘bobob bobob bobob’ like a Harley. Well, CAT donkey engines were even firing so it will run okay. Might be like a four wheel whacker plate though :D
Okay, it is a bobob babob. Only way to get the crank right at the flywheel end is bolt it to a flywheel and mount that on the chuck. Amazing build :o)
Good thing is that engine makes 0,13 hp , 0.59 NM of torque and 72 rpm... 👍
Why is the crank ser at 180 deg? surely it should be a 360 crank to match the distributor and for more even firing.
We’re planning on doing a Q&A soon due to all the comments but yes you’re right. Look at previous comments that have said the same thing. It’s due to the balancing as we don’t have the correct tools and just want to get it running on a budget. We will see what it sounds like! It’s more of an experiment than anything really
You should have got Allen Millyard involved, he could probably do it in his sleep! Have you thought about inviting him over? He could ride over on his 5 litre v-twin.
A turbocharged twin cylinder mini engine!!!!
you must excuse my lack of knowlage....but why do you need a two cly mini engine?
I can’t see how “one up one down” will work with the distributor you showed us a vid or two ago.
did they show a 4 cylinder dizzy? it is just a case of using 2 out of 4 lead connections.
A crank with both pistons at TDC is a smoother engine, as it fires evenly every 360 degrees. Have a look at most twin bike engines.
Hi, we are aware of that. It’s for balancing, re: previous comments
@@DGBcars You just need to add more bob weights to the webs. There are calculations online of how much to offset it using the weight of the con rods and pistons and it can be done statically. As part of the rod is rotating and the other end is reciprocating I believe its roughly 2/3 the weight of piston and rod (but don't quote me on that).
Did you get dat? Lmao I want that soundbite
Or use him as the voice on your GPS. Ha! That would be hilarious using his humor. Lmmfao!!!!!!!!!!
Have you watched Alan Milyards crank builds? His are mostly built up cranks so much easier.
???
@@PurityVendetta meaning individual components pressed together with an interference fit.
Next project a 6 cylinder mini engine with the leftover bits.
These blokes couldnt afford to pay the road tax on the escort 1100cc motor, so its down to 2 cylinders for em.
Call me daft, but surely on a 2 cylinder 4 stroke engine, both pistons need to be going up n down at the same time... although I guess it would be an extremely rough running engine, but if they are at opposite ends of the stroke they won't fire at equal degrees of rotation....
Not the best explanation, but hopefully it makes sense???
That's a lot of stick-out and poor balance- why don't you use a steady rest on that main journal?
We don’t have one in the Shed! But yes you’re right