Making the cams Mini 2 cylinder Part 2 - Ivan's Shed
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- Опубликовано: 27 фев 2021
- Join us with Ivan Dutton for part 2 of making the 1957 prototype 2 cylinder engine run! Watch as we fabricate the cams, sump, manifold and rocker cover for the engine...
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An Englishman uttering "We've got to make it so it don't leak"!! Wish that had been taken to heart 2 centuries ago!
I'm an old Mini guy, AND an old manual machinist! This is a brill project! You blokes would love my Jag-engined Jeepster rat rod!
......men like Ivan put the Great in Britain.
We are awaiting.....
Better than tv soap operas any day...
Even the BBC biased news.
This is the proper engineering spirit, working with what you have and create something new, very much like all those men in the 19th and early 20th century did in creating trains, planes and automobiles.
I imagine that ivan and his helper have had many problems that they have solved over the years.they have pulled out their hair doing so.most people see these old cars as simple and arcaic,yet they dont realize that you guys are making parts that dont exist any more,cams, cranks, from bits and parts from other cars.true engineers,machinestists,mechanics,willing to try anything to get an old engine running and racing.
It all looks as mad as box of frogs, but I love it, can’t wait to see the big grin on their faces when it all finally works. 👍
What a great expression!
@@johnsherborne3245 I agree.
Such a pleasure to watch real craftsmen at work, problems? Have a brew work it out get the job done.....and have a laugh along the way.....the satisfaction of creating something from next to nothing, there's nothing like it, brilliant channel and superb camera/editing work totally captures the spirit, thank you guys for bringing a smile to my face.
I love your mad scientist approach. You do in real life what all these educated fools do in cad.
As a precision engineer myself CAD is necessary in todays world. Old skills just simply aren't needed as much
@@TheBlaert I started drawing with pencil, the old school way, I realised the power and speed of CAD so did a course at my local technical college. The final exam really made me realise how backward things were, for three marks what does DOS stand for! CAD allows me to make a lot of mistakes very cheaply, and sanity check my ideas, but Ivan’s engine build probably had no drawings at all.
Do a bit of imagining of a design office in longbridge(?) some one thought this engine. Then they sketched it and a team of draftsmen drew it all in first angle. Then the pattern makers making the thing in wood. It goes on, but always because some on thought it. The translation to reality process, while essential, is not the important but as long as it works.
Love the rocker cover looks just right.
The first thing I did when I found Ivan's channel was to check out his pedigree 🤭 And what a pedigree!!! I'd love to work with someone like him. Great bloke.
This! Yes. I've only just clicked. He's a legend I've read of with his racing and engineering exploits from way back. Loving this.
If that’s what you really want you should go for it! I did something similar back in 1972 (after leaving school) and got a really fantastic 4year apprenticeship out of it and have never looked back! Follow your dreams! 😊👍
I wonder if an Alloy head/block casting could be made ??
The fantastic creativity of ivan is only matched by the SUSPENSE we are all living in....
In addition , you boys work together so well
I love lathes, I have 4 that I use almost everyday. They were all junkers outside or taken apart and forgotten. Now they are like new and live inside. I just made some mammoth ivory buttons for my Pendleton shirt. Its obvious Ivan and his helper are a couple of the smartest gents who ever drew a breath.
Nice, I only have two, a modern Harrison M300 which I use every day and then there's my pride and joy, a 1904 Pattern Pratt and Whitney 10" Engine Lathe with a complete set of accessories. It's gorgeous!
Happy days! CNC Harrison M400 that I love along with my treasures1930s Rollo Supreme 8 1/2x 72, 1903 Hardinge Cataract, Myford Super 7, flat belt Colchester Master- with Ministry of Munitions wartime plate on it, Pultra 10 watchmakers plus a few ladies waiting in storage. I learned to use a lathe as an apprentice toolmaker nearly 40 years ago and it's an enduring love affair. And then there is the others- milling machines, boring machines,shapers etc.
Sophie Hawthorne nice machines! The CNC I have is great but manual machining is where my heart is at too.
@@andrewwilson8317 Wow, what an incredible collection. I'm on my lunch break at the mo. I am self taught by necessity and still learn something new every day. I make and repair parts for classic British motorcycles, mainly Norton from oil pumps to brakes. I also use my Bridgeport, an Astra AR5E (the name makes everyone laugh) tool and cutter grinder and surface grinder. I'm very proud of it all as we built it from nothing 🙂
Great work Ivan, I am waiting on baited breath for the next stage of the Salmson rebuild.
Absolutely fascinating and riveting viewing - please hurry up with part 3 !!!
Hope you’ve subscribed and are notified because it’s up now! Enjoy
@@ChristianDeGiuliBotta Indeed I have subbed and am now up to date ! I'm currently playing catch-up and bingeing on all your other content - best wishes. Richard ( up here in Yorkshire)
Can't wait for this lil story to be completed and to see and hear it running will be a treat! Maybe a Dyno chart lol?!
I've never seen this done before. Extraordinary work gents! Good luck mates...🙂
Wow stav uk 10 10 good luck
There was a 4-valve version of this engine prototyped by Gordon Allen using half a BDA head in 1975.
Great stuff, keep going Ivan.
Watched 2 videos about the 2cylinder A series engine , reminds of my day at college, engineers using their grey matter, I subscribe to VERY few channels but yours is outstanding, thankyou
The gearbox dwarfs the engine!
A true labour of love. Thanks for sharing.
great videos keep up the good work
Absolutely fantastic right up my street ! I loved it when Ivan was spraying the Gas cylinders with the angle grinder with a could not give a f*** attitude. Not spotted the racoon yet or the piano Can not wait to hear it run and see the bikini clad lady
This is a very exciting project.
you have my attention 100% I am interested in small is beautiful and what power is needed for commuting/ sustainable powered vehicles, be they cars or motorcycles. Back in the 70's, I cut up a reliant robin engine to make a twin cylinder 360 odd cc engine. the layout of the ally engine was almost designed to do this mod with no fancy jiggery-pokery. Dick Buckland, the brilliant designer/ engineer was highly sceptical, not just because of the anticipated balance and vibration but more that why would anybody go for less power! His thoughts were to couple two reliant engines END TO END! to make a superlight 1500 cc straight eight! ---Brilliant out of the box thinking. My engine ran but my college and degree etc etc stopped me fitting it in my ideal motorcycle. Its now 2021--still mad on specials and honoured to have had such memories. Your prototype engine is intriguing and hints at Issigonis thinking. (austerity )-- austinerity? thank you. ed kaczmarczyk
came across your Channel via the Mini forum.. great videos looking forward to the completion of the 2 Cylinder Mini Engine
Great, great, project ! to see experienced engineers bringing something to life is the best. Well done guys. Andy Lloyd - VSCC
Not wanting to put a spanner in the works but the cam needs to be dialled in at 90 degrees to accommodate the 90 degree firing order.
Don't forget, with the crank made the way it is, running a 90 degree firing order (stroke being rotated 180 degrees) it needs the cam to be set up the same.
For it to use 180 degree firing order (and cam timing) the pistons must travel up and down together, not with an opposite stroke.
It will also require the distributor to run 90 degree's between cylinders, or two HT ports sequenced from a four cylinder distributor.
This is a great project at any cost.
Can not wait to here this thing run
I'm intrigued now, dying to hear it running.
Lot of work guys, interesting project though, nice bit of fabrication
Wonderful ❤️👍
Brilliant...!
Just brilliant
Rather than relocating the starter, make a slim adaptor plate for the oil filter location & run lines to a remote filter.
Ivan I suppose you can either reposition the starter motor (or run a remote oil filter?) great series my friend 😊👍🇬🇧
With a 180 degree crank, it should sound similar to the old 1970's Yamaha XS250 or Kawasaki Z250, as both of these also had 180 degree cranks.
Its great!
Fantastic
Center main bearing very nice.
When you were tapping to secure that plate for the gearbox, there appeared to be a core plug visible. Might be a good idea to replace that and any others to ensure they dont leak.
Just wondering if the 2 cyl engine block has any ID # s. Great creativity going on in Ivan's Shed 👍🇬🇧👍
Love this, crazy, but very cleaver. Minis used twin 1 1/4 SU's, so you might find a single HS2 might work.
The carb he's plans on using seems to be a 1930's Zentih 30 TH so that's 2mm less than 1 1/4(they range from 26mm to 42 and have swappable reducer rings for fine tuning on air velocity).
This is a true Limey at work here folks !
They don't make them like these guys anymore...
Hi Ivan this is a great project but you won`t be able to use your 2 cylinder distributor as that is for a 360 degree twin, your 180 degree twin has firing intervals of 180/540 degrees and you will have to use a 4 cylinder distributor and grind off 2 cam lobes and use 2 plug leads next to each other at 90 degrees IE 180 degree crank rotation. I am not sure if you said that each pair of cams on your camshaft was now at 180 degrees but this also should be only 90 degrees difference between each pair IE 180 degree crank rotation. Don`t want to sound critical in any way and want to see the engine run keep up the good work.
I'm sure you're right. Thanks for the advice and I'm sure we can find a 4 cylinder distributor in amongst the junk. We may need to get you in as a consultant...
Wasted spark system from 2 CV would allow simplicity
I'm building a custom Boyer Bransen ignition for my 90° offset Norton 88 engine. Perhaps you could install something similar into a standard distributor using a single coil and two of the existing HT leads? I haven't got round to building the new trigger coil backplate yet but I see no massive issues and a far stronger spark from the electronic ignition system with the advantage of built in auto advance.
Nice work fellas, but personally I can't see that engine lasting long, it's very ambitious and very skillful, but a crankshaft held together with interference joints and camshaft held together with pins, I just can see any of these components lasting long,
Great work tho, and much respect 👍
Hi Ivan and All, I just found your channel and have been going through all the videos
Then I saw you changing the position of the cam lobes to be central to the followers
I remembered there is a reason that they should be offset!!!! this allows the followers to rotate and lessens the skidding of the cam across the face of the follower and reduces wear
I hope I'm not to late with this info? as you will have to re time the cam as Alan said??
When the crank comes back, do you have to bore new oil passages, or is that happening at the grinding shop?
Very interesting project. Maybe you could relocate the starter to the other side. Also i think id cut a grove in the pan for an o ring like the mini gearbox has. Looking forward to more
Rocker cover might need a tweak around the thermostat housing. But nothing these guys can't sort. It looks original already.
Am I wrong ? Probably, yes. But the cam set with lobes at 180 degrees between cylinders will need a two up, two down crankshaft. One up, one down needs a 275 degree cam.
Modern style 270 degree crank, be interesting if a Triumph, Yamaha, Honda and the new Royal Enfield 650 firing order for parallel twins would work in this style engine.
Actually not so modern. It was patented by Phil Irving back in the 50’s.
It would probably be easier to fit the starter motor in the standard position and have a remote oil filter.
Given that the engine is half an 848cc A series engine which delivered 34bhp, this twin can be expected to deliver about half of that.
Yeah good suggestion. From memory we think the actual casting is in the way as well but we will definitely look at that before we get carried away
I wonder what they'd create if Allen milyard joined them aswell 🤔
Heating everything up will affect the hardening of cam and crank how have you got that back?
Possible mistake an even firing vertical twin 4 stroke engines has both crank pins in the same place and fire every 360 degrees and has smoother power delivery, 180 degree cranks like yours will fire 180 then 540. sounds cool on a Honda 305 lopey sounding pudump pudump pudump at idle. but on bigger engines they make a bloop bloop bloop sound at all speeds common on tractors john deer twins and allis chalmers 2 banger diesels and sound like they are missing.
Where do ye get your overalls? They're class
'Kinell, our Ivan is a propa' cocknee!
Would the starter fit facing the gearbox side?
Are you sure about the 1 up 1 down crank? seems like it would be very lumpy (bang, bang, nothing, nothing). I would have thought it would have been 2 up so it would at least be even but the counter weights would have to be bigger. That way the distributor you have would work. Your cam and distributor are set up for 180 deg but as Alan Noakes commented your crank is not.
Just seen the earlier comments making my comment irrelevant which is saying the same thing. Hope you get it sorted which ever way.
Unfortunately the cam is not timed for that. So bang nothing nothing nothing bang with an occasional 2nd bang.
Maybe the cams can be heated to melt the silver solder and rotated to the correct positions so they are 90deg apart on the camshaft?
Ivan is the head ok flat or are you planning to reface it?
Looking at the original picture the distributor is for a 360 degree crank, not the 180 crank you have built up. See Alan Noaks comment about the cam and ignition timing from yesterday. The 180 crank will give you better balance but a very uneven firing order.
Yes we understand the firing will be strange. We just couldn't have made a crank realistically with the correct counter balance for two up. Thanks for pointing out the other comment that's really helpful.
@@ChristianDeGiuliBotta You just need a 4 cylinder distributor and grind off two adjacent lobes leaving the other pair.
Subscribed and thumbs up Ivan.............your work intrigues me ! thankyou Sir. ps why a 2 cylinder mini engine ?.................a guy split a vw flat four and got more the half the hp of 4 cylinders
It hasn’t been split. It was a prototype from the late 50s that we bought about ten years ago. Was found in a scrap yard in the 90s. Just an experiment to get it running as it’s quite a rare BMC block and as far as we know has never been heard running. Was a proper engine made with patterns so is a real thing that existed and went through testing at the factory.
@@ChristianDeGiuliBotta fascinating !, I look forward to see or hear it running
@@blairguinea6811 there are new videos up now on our channel. If you hit subscribe it will notify you when we post new videos. I’m very glad you’re enjoying it! Take care
@@ChristianDeGiuliBotta yes i will look when I get home.....should be there as I have subscribed , you also take care Sir
hi You have a problem with this engine!!!! NO information... I worked over 50 years ago for a breakers/scrap yard...in the midlands ...in the stores were a pair of these "mini" 2 cyl engine heads...I was very familiar with all BMC engines....as there were no other components about that would fit these heads to...I initially thought that this "engine" was to be VW style 4 cylinder type. Your parts make a bit more of an engine....but....would the Austin apprentices have been given this engine idea as a project??
At this yard were remains of an A30 front with a lash-up of a front wheel drive subframe...but the engine was fitted backwards...i.e....carb was at the front on a 4 cylinder A series engine....this means the transfer gears did not have an "idler" to change engine direction.
A mini 850cc engine halved ....equals 425cc ...it would not have power to pull the skin off a rice pudding!!!.....best of luck
I dont know if any of this is relevant, I will let you decide. Around 1953/4, BMC planned to build a small car, even smaller than the A30. The plan was to use a 600cc? 4 cylinder engine. The same engine would be fitted in the shaft drive Sunbeam S7/8 motorcycle. A prototype engine was actually fitted to a bike, sadly the car idea was scrapped, so Sunbeam did not get the engine. There are photos of the engine, clearly showing the Sunbeam engine mounts. At the same time another engine was discussed a 2 cylinder engine. I have never seen any evidence of this, however I am assured one was built and fitted to a bike. Being an inline twin it had a shaft drive alloy gearbox. Could this be the basis of your engine?
Room for a sandwich plate for remote oil filter?
¿Sólo tiene Vd 1700 suscriptores?. Debería tener 17 millones.
Estoy totalmente de acuerdo, hombre increíble
@@elizabethmunday6754 A mí, desde luego, me ha sorprendido. Sorprendido y fascinado.
@@guadalupesanchezherrera5670 Me alegro que los disfrutes. tengo mucha suerte de llamar a este hombre mi abuelo 😊
@@elizabethmunday6754 ¿Es una broma?
@@elizabethmunday6754 Supongo que sí...
I think your going to have trouble with the cam if you've done the lobes 180 degrees between the cylinders. Remember the cam runs half the engine speed, so to line up with the next piston at 180 degrees crank rotation, the cam will move 90 degrees.....
I believe if you're trying to achieve the 2 cylinders being 2 strokes out of phase 180° is correct
@@TheMeta6 2 strokes don't have cams.!!!!!
180 degrees on the cams would be correct if both pistons were at TDC at the same time. Remember the cam goes at 1/2 the speed of the crank. So when the next cylinder is at TDC the cam has moved 90 degrees. You already know its going to fire at 0 degrees, 180 degrees but nothing for a further 440 degrees as the crank is 180 degrees opposed. So the cam is never going to look balanced.
@@garysweetland32 reread what I wrote.... I never mentioned a 2stroke.
@@TheMeta6 Sorry yes I half read that. Your quite correct about the crank. My comment was about the cam, so I assumed yours was too 🥴
@@garysweetland32 your comment was correct if you're trying to get the cylinders to fire one after the other but then you wind up with the engine running bang bang nothing nothing. 180° would give you bang nothing bang nothing
interesting project
thinking about your starter motor problem maybe you can use the generator/ dynamo to double as a starter
i'm sure you know they can be used as a electric motor by re arranging the wiring but maybe you can wire it so that you can isolate it from generator to start then switch back to a generator after starting
Too late now, but why oh why are you drilling the block for the plate, it'd be far better to keep it original and pick up the centres from the block and drill the plate.
Because the gearbox mounting bolts are the same pattern as the plate?
@@handbrakebob Beat me to it 😁
Boosting it could be good Ivan?
No
Look up Allen Milyard on YT, watch how he makes crank shafts for some of the motorcycle engines he makes.
Enough with the Millyard nonsense. Millyard picks on pressed up cranks which are easy to deal with compared with cut and welded types. Millyard ruins perfectly good bikes, these guys are, I imagine creating a 500cc engine to power a midget racer. The crass worship of Millyard by people who have no idea really annoys me.
@@PurityVendetta i am looking forward to see what you build.
@@PurityVendetta mm would love to see what you have achieved from scratch. with minimal tools and limited space. to be polite as they say in yorkshire"put your money where your gob is"
@@johnfoster7536 To you and Peter Wood, I'm building two race engines to improve, yes improve the performance of my Norton Domiracer Lowboy. I don't waste time messing up perfectly good machines and building daft curiosities to entertain the slack jawed great unwashed.
What have you two actually done? Like 'done in your own workshops which you've built form nothing'?
You keep brown nosing Millyard if that's what you like but I have a long history of working in the single seat car racing industry and building race bikes 😉
@@PurityVendetta Jeeze, calm doon hen...
Ye aren't looking for an apprentice are ye?