A couple of thoughts came to mind as I watched this. 1. It’s nearly impossible to be completely objective on power levels for this game largely because of many of the things you mentioned (player count, play style, matchups, etc.). There is a natural bias that each of these lists have. We play the heroes that we like and get really good at them and naturally rate them higher. 2. With that said, there is still value in providing your views on the power tier list. At some point someone should put together an aggregate of all of the power tier lists out there and just come with an average position ranking for each hero. With a high enough sample size we get a slightly better picture of the perception of each hero’s power. It won’t be exact (few things in statistics are) but it will be a better picture of where the community perception is. 3. So I’d love to see your list. It would be fun and get a lot of views. It would produce a lot of commentary, I imagine a lot of laughs and maybe a bit of disagreement. 4. Oh, and Gamora may be one of the few heroes who is a bit worse in multiplayer. At least that’s my opinion… :)
Tier lists are some of my favorite content honestly! Also, your card reviews going through the boxes. I would like to see a tier list based on multiplayer power honestly, because everyone I see is Solo focused. There are quite a few heroes now that I enjoy playing, but just will never play solo again. Web Warriors most recent list had a lot of heroes in C and D, that I agree with solo, but can be really strong in three players where they don't have to try and compensate for their weakness and can lean into their schtick. I just destroyed Expert Ronan in campaign mode where he's very hard with Drax, but I was able to only attack and focus on eating fanatic counters for the team. I don't think I could replicate that solo lol! I'd easily argue he's an A tier hero when he can just do his Drax thing, but C or D is probably correct for Solo.
I agree with all your points...but I'd still like to see you do one! There's a reason tier lists are so popular...it's just fun content to watch. These lists are easy to consume, easy to pause and come back to later, and easy to use as a reference point for getting deeper into a hobby or topic. From my perspective, it's one of the ways I find new streamers to watch. When there's a topic I'm interested in, I watch a few, and listen to the streamers' takes on each item. The actual rankings aren't as useful as the reasoning why the person ranked them that way. If a streamer doesn't have one (or it's not recent), it's entirely possible I will not see their content. As someone who is getting back into MC after a long break, it's been the most helpful content to me to determine what to try. Your "fun" list was very helpful, and every bit as useful as the "power rankings" that other creators have put out. Knowing which characters are weaker, or harder to play, or require specific cards, is really helpful to somebody like me who is just re-learning the card pool. Even if it's just a random person's subjective opinion. A few suggestions: 1) Tier lists don't need to be a precise ranking from 1-100. You're just dumping stuff into 5 (or less) buckets. 2) Tier lists are always your personal opinions. Don't worry about being judged because of them, those people are just trolling. 3) For games where things are always changing, tier lists are only really valid the day they are released. A 6 month old tier list should always be taken with a grain of salt. A 12-month old tier list is probably invalid. 4) You can keep updating tier lists with new tier lists. It's interesting to see how people's perspectives change over time. 5) You don't need to put every single character in a tier list. Consider skipping the C & D tiers and just show us your As and Bs. 6) You don't need to do "power ranking" tier lists. Even if you did "Protection aspect heroes" or "Top card draw heroes", it'll still be entertaining.
What are you talking about?! My power rankings tier list is completely objective and absolute. On a serious note, i agree that tier lists are subjective in nature and no 2 people have the exact same rankings. The being said, it’s one of my favorite topics to cover and it’s really interesting seeing other people’s rankings. #giveusthetierlistanyway!!!
Agreed! It's not the rankings that matter, it's the "why" they ranked them that way that is fun. I tried Cable due to webwarrior's ranking and I also had trouble getting him to work. It doesn't make ww's ranking any less valid, or his tier list any less fun to watch!
Fun discussion. Regarding the point what makes a hero great, it's an underlying thing: how efficient their economy is. The more efficient the hero is, the better they are at everything else. That's why Cable and Strange are so good because their economy is so easy to set up on turn 1.
Even as a fighting game player I don't really enjoy tier list. I much prefer match up charts that say my character is good against these characters/situations. So when people say Thor is good vs minions that is more helpful than his placement on a tier list because that isn't all he can do, it's just what he is good at.
I absolutely enjoy watching tier lists from content creators. However you made several valid points. I play mainly multiplayer (3-4) and main as Storm(whom I believe is a GOAT). As soon as those status effects start to be distributed and I'm not playing as Storm I get immediately yelled at!
I love tier list. And I think the best way of ranking and most simple is who wins the most. Winning is the point of the game the more you win the more powerful the hero. Now of course they varies between solo and multi player.
When I see a tier list I’m not looking for an objective view. I’m looking at it from the point of view of who’s giving it. It doesn’t change where I rank them personally. I just like to see others point of view compared to mine
Accurate take. I’m still waiting for a tier list that puts She-hulk in the A+ tier where she belongs. I like your point about different heroes clicking with different players.
I'm on-board with lack of interest in trying to rank/judge power level tiers. Yeah, everyone, separately write down on a piece of paper what is the meaning of 'most powerful'... My main goal is "*playing*" with my card-combo/interactions whilst in the game. That's easily & clear my #1 reason for playing this game. Sure, I aim to get a win, but I wanna *play* my constructed deck of cards. Otherwise I may as well go play some other "fixed-deck" game...which I do sometimes (got those too).
I 100% agree that how powerful a hero is depends highly on the player and how well they mesh with that hero. For example I CAN NOT get Ms. Marvel to work for me, I understand how she can be powerful but I just cant get her to work for me
Just like any card game, power is/can be relative to the person playing the deck. If I were to make a tier list of power, ALL heroes would be B level or below, because I'm just not very good at the game! But that's not why I play MC. I play for the fun of it, not really caring if I win or lose. It's about the experience and story I'm building of a hero vs. a villain. I like your thought process and reasoning!
Agree power rankings are just a reflection of that individual's personal experiences and no one player has enough data points to actually make a comprehensive list. I've beaten every villain on expert some on heroic but I cant win a game on standard with Colossus no matter how hard I try - and for some people he is an A tier hero
Honestly, the idea of power rankings in a cooperative game is a little difficult for me to wrap my head around. I understand that there are going to be characters that are very very powerful, I think I'm in agreeance with the general community about Spider Ham and Venom. But I just do not understand the play style of Doctor Strange and do not find him to be fun or powerful. Extend that to individual aspect cards and I just completely lose track of the discussion.
A couple of thoughts came to mind as I watched this.
1. It’s nearly impossible to be completely objective on power levels for this game largely because of many of the things you mentioned (player count, play style, matchups, etc.). There is a natural bias that each of these lists have. We play the heroes that we like and get really good at them and naturally rate them higher.
2. With that said, there is still value in providing your views on the power tier list. At some point someone should put together an aggregate of all of the power tier lists out there and just come with an average position ranking for each hero. With a high enough sample size we get a slightly better picture of the perception of each hero’s power. It won’t be exact (few things in statistics are) but it will be a better picture of where the community perception is.
3. So I’d love to see your list. It would be fun and get a lot of views. It would produce a lot of commentary, I imagine a lot of laughs and maybe a bit of disagreement.
4. Oh, and Gamora may be one of the few heroes who is a bit worse in multiplayer. At least that’s my opinion… :)
Tier lists are some of my favorite content honestly! Also, your card reviews going through the boxes.
I would like to see a tier list based on multiplayer power honestly, because everyone I see is Solo focused. There are quite a few heroes now that I enjoy playing, but just will never play solo again.
Web Warriors most recent list had a lot of heroes in C and D, that I agree with solo, but can be really strong in three players where they don't have to try and compensate for their weakness and can lean into their schtick. I just destroyed Expert Ronan in campaign mode where he's very hard with Drax, but I was able to only attack and focus on eating fanatic counters for the team. I don't think I could replicate that solo lol! I'd easily argue he's an A tier hero when he can just do his Drax thing, but C or D is probably correct for Solo.
I agree with all your points...but I'd still like to see you do one! There's a reason tier lists are so popular...it's just fun content to watch. These lists are easy to consume, easy to pause and come back to later, and easy to use as a reference point for getting deeper into a hobby or topic.
From my perspective, it's one of the ways I find new streamers to watch. When there's a topic I'm interested in, I watch a few, and listen to the streamers' takes on each item. The actual rankings aren't as useful as the reasoning why the person ranked them that way. If a streamer doesn't have one (or it's not recent), it's entirely possible I will not see their content.
As someone who is getting back into MC after a long break, it's been the most helpful content to me to determine what to try. Your "fun" list was very helpful, and every bit as useful as the "power rankings" that other creators have put out. Knowing which characters are weaker, or harder to play, or require specific cards, is really helpful to somebody like me who is just re-learning the card pool. Even if it's just a random person's subjective opinion.
A few suggestions:
1) Tier lists don't need to be a precise ranking from 1-100. You're just dumping stuff into 5 (or less) buckets.
2) Tier lists are always your personal opinions. Don't worry about being judged because of them, those people are just trolling.
3) For games where things are always changing, tier lists are only really valid the day they are released. A 6 month old tier list should always be taken with a grain of salt. A 12-month old tier list is probably invalid.
4) You can keep updating tier lists with new tier lists. It's interesting to see how people's perspectives change over time.
5) You don't need to put every single character in a tier list. Consider skipping the C & D tiers and just show us your As and Bs.
6) You don't need to do "power ranking" tier lists. Even if you did "Protection aspect heroes" or "Top card draw heroes", it'll still be entertaining.
What are you talking about?! My power rankings tier list is completely objective and absolute.
On a serious note, i agree that tier lists are subjective in nature and no 2 people have the exact same rankings. The being said, it’s one of my favorite topics to cover and it’s really interesting seeing other people’s rankings. #giveusthetierlistanyway!!!
🔥 ☝️
Agreed! It's not the rankings that matter, it's the "why" they ranked them that way that is fun. I tried Cable due to webwarrior's ranking and I also had trouble getting him to work. It doesn't make ww's ranking any less valid, or his tier list any less fun to watch!
Fun discussion. Regarding the point what makes a hero great, it's an underlying thing: how efficient their economy is. The more efficient the hero is, the better they are at everything else. That's why Cable and Strange are so good because their economy is so easy to set up on turn 1.
Mannn not for me. I can not get Cable going for the life of me ... ever. Takes 5 rounds haha.
@D20Woodworking heheh. Set up with Build Support into turn 1 Graymalkin, then profit.
@svendejong8110 caught off guard. Loss. My life. Then double whammie wi thy shadow of the past hahah
Thanks for the upload, D20! 🎉 Enjoy your weekend!
Even as a fighting game player I don't really enjoy tier list. I much prefer match up charts that say my character is good against these characters/situations.
So when people say Thor is good vs minions that is more helpful than his placement on a tier list because that isn't all he can do, it's just what he is good at.
I absolutely enjoy watching tier lists from content creators. However you made several valid points. I play mainly multiplayer (3-4) and main as Storm(whom I believe is a GOAT). As soon as those status effects start to be distributed and I'm not playing as Storm I get immediately yelled at!
I love tier list. And I think the best way of ranking and most simple is who wins the most. Winning is the point of the game the more you win the more powerful the hero. Now of course they varies between solo and multi player.
I'd love to see your "fun" tier list, just for the perspective.
It will come out for sure by the end of the year
When I see a tier list I’m not looking for an objective view. I’m looking at it from the point of view of who’s giving it. It doesn’t change where I rank them personally. I just like to see others point of view compared to mine
Accurate take. I’m still waiting for a tier list that puts She-hulk in the A+ tier where she belongs. I like your point about different heroes clicking with different players.
I'm on-board with lack of interest in trying to rank/judge power level tiers.
Yeah, everyone, separately write down on a piece of paper what is the meaning of 'most powerful'...
My main goal is "*playing*" with my card-combo/interactions whilst in the game. That's easily & clear my #1 reason for playing this game. Sure, I aim to get a win, but I wanna *play* my constructed deck of cards. Otherwise I may as well go play some other "fixed-deck" game...which I do sometimes (got those too).
I 100% agree that how powerful a hero is depends highly on the player and how well they mesh with that hero. For example I CAN NOT get Ms. Marvel to work for me, I understand how she can be powerful but I just cant get her to work for me
She is tricky, as her kit wants her to unmask frequently, to get the best of her.
I like watching tier lists since you do get those different takes people have, but all I care about is how fun a hero is to play.
Yes, tier lists are subjective. That's why I love them. I want to hear ppl's opinions
Just like any card game, power is/can be relative to the person playing the deck. If I were to make a tier list of power, ALL heroes would be B level or below, because I'm just not very good at the game! But that's not why I play MC. I play for the fun of it, not really caring if I win or lose. It's about the experience and story I'm building of a hero vs. a villain. I like your thought process and reasoning!
Is this because protection deadpool can beat s2e2 Ronan?? Still not s-tier?? Eagerly awaiting protection Valk to defeat s2e2 Ronan
Agree power rankings are just a reflection of that individual's personal experiences and no one player has enough data points to actually make a comprehensive list. I've beaten every villain on expert some on heroic but I cant win a game on standard with Colossus no matter how hard I try - and for some people he is an A tier hero
I'd rather know which heroes are most fun. Of course, that can loop back to power levels, as some people really don't like losing.
Honestly power rankings are all bull caps the best
Honestly, the idea of power rankings in a cooperative game is a little difficult for me to wrap my head around. I understand that there are going to be characters that are very very powerful, I think I'm in agreeance with the general community about Spider Ham and Venom. But I just do not understand the play style of Doctor Strange and do not find him to be fun or powerful.
Extend that to individual aspect cards and I just completely lose track of the discussion.