Sam,iam an 82 year old I have had or owned 15 odd cars in my lifetime,petrol, diesel,station wagons,sedans,i have been a car enthusiast all my life,towed caravans,i am now the owner of a Tesla YRWD the most magnificent vehicle i have ever owned,I get excited whenever i get in it to go somewhere,I also own a 2006 Getz 1.6 with 94,000ks on the clock never given an ounce of trouble the original old ladies car looks like new all the best from Perth
@HeiNz0304 Man, you trolls are slow. That's why anyone follows him, for news on Tesla. Of course, if ANYONE else could build an ev they could deliver here, we're interested, and Sam will report on it (eg BYD). So why not go back to sucking on your diesels tailpipe. 😅
Thanks for sharing this! I have never owned a EV, Tesla is the Only one I am interested in,Mainky because of the Outstanding charging infrastructure. BYD is next though.
@@dporrasxtremeLS3 China is a fascist country, we must be careful not to give them too much power. Most EV batteries come from China, we must build robots so we can build competitive batteries in the West. Volvo, MG and Lotus are now owned by the Chinese.
I recently bought a 2018 Model 3 at auction. It was salvaged by the insurance company due to front end damage. I bought a number of parts from Tesla, but also from the growing after-market industry. Due to the sales volume of these cars, and the low change of many parts, this is a profitable business for the after-market. This should enable extending the service life of many of these cars.
That’s good to know. My mechanic of ICE vehicles told me that more and more auto scrap yards are selling off their ICE vehicle inventory as scrap metal.
My ice car oil pan gasket got broken by the dealership when they tried to do an oil change. Most likely happened when they over tighten it. To replace the oil pan cost $700. That's the sort of unnecessary maintenance people don't want to subjected to.
Viking I have just taken delivery of my first EV a Tesla model Y. Previously I owned two Toyota hybrids. An Australian made Camry from 2010 and a RAV 4 Cruiser. The model Y is superb and definitely a cut above any other previous vehicle. I look back over the 15 ICE vehicles I have owned since 1969 and feel completely used and ripped off. This entire industry is designed to provide you with vehicles that fail and require upkeep and maintenance while depreciating on a daily basis.
> while depreciating on a daily basis Umm, sure, EVs have an incredibly higher depreciating rate than ICEs... Nobody wants them when the battery is out/nearing end of warranty. And ask Hertz/Sixt how happy they were with their "low maintenace" EVs...
I'm a senior citizen and all of my cars have died from cancer, not mechanical problems. Here in the rust belt road salt really does a number on steel to the point where a lot of people drive their cars way past being safe because the frames are half gone.
Here in the UK we have an annual test and cars that are rusted in safety critical areas are denied a test certificate. That means they cannot legally be driven on public roads.
That is why the work of Louis Rossman and Rich Rebuilds is so important. EVs are not black boxes, they can be fixed and should be fixed and maintained. Especially in case the manufacturer tries to deny your car from working.
a lotr of the big electronic companies wont supply schematics, check out louis rossman, and the chinese have a habit of grinding the part numbers off their chips so you cant identify it to replace them if you do pinpoint it to that chip, when one considers that heat is the death sentence for most electrical components, i wonder how long these screens will last in a car parked out in the sun. i have actually cooked a xmas pudding in a closed up car on a sunny day
@@debeerizwell here it is. My 2015 screen is melting. Leaking the glue. Tesla have a new one in stock with better glue that doesn't melt. Not bad considering it's the first big problem $2500 fitted new upgraded version.
@@waynelevett3632Still an oof but for an 8+ year old car with I presume few issues that’s still good. A normal ICE would rack up far more in regular maintenance costs alone not counting repairs.
@@howardj602 John Deere is a criminal conspiracy masquerading as a legitimate company. Which, come to think of it, describes a lot of OEMs - Dieselgate, Toyota's "tests", Nissan and Ghosn, Ford and the Pinto, ...
Ive just bought a 1 year old MG HS PHEV, as I wasnt prepared to go full electric yet. I drive most of the time in pure EV mode and love it. Hybrid mode only used for country driving, but suburban/ city driving all EV.
I usually buy a two year old car. I then drive it till it dies. The engine and parts expense grows until it is economically not worth repairing. Also the chassis rusts and unsafe repairs are needed. If EVs had an aluminium chassis, replacing an EV engine would not be costly, might still need replacement of electronic components. Sounds good to me.
Battery replacement also depends on one's driving requirement. Also by the time the battery of a new EV degrades significantly, EV super charging will have become more prevelent, which will help offset the longer range requirements of batteries.
My wife's 2018 M3 still has 98% of its original battery capacity after 6+ years and my previous two MS's also had negligible battery degradation as well, so we are not seeing battery degradation as being an issue for us.
I was spending $400 dollars a month on gasoline filling up my ICE car for several years before I decided to buy a Tesla. After driving the Tesla model 3, my only regret is not buying one sooner. I saved so much money that even when I buy a new battery, it is still much cheaper than how much I spent on gasoline, oil changes, radiator leaks, water pump issues, smog checks, oil changes, and so much time saved from all of the ICE maintenance requirements. I am so glad EV's exist, they are definately light years ahead of ICE cars.
Hey Sam, I am 84 and live in Florida. Rats got in my 1999 Honda CR-V during the pandemic because the car did not move. Chewed the wires off the car's computer. Spent almost $2,000 fixing it up with a mobile mechanic who is from Boston now Florida. He did a GREAT job. We re-named my car, it is now called the Ratmobile. I am all in favor of electric cars and watch your videos religiously. But I don't need more than $9000 Seagull for going 1-2 miles to Publix :) ! Watch this video about NYC. My daughter lives there and has a green Mini just like the one in the video that cracked me up with the extension cord draping here and then there. This guy should be on Jimmy Kimmel. Please make a video addressing the NYC guy's laundry list of reasons why he's not buying an EV and neither is anyone else. He's right on the money with his list. When do you think all these laundry list of problems will be solved ?
Sam, you live where there is no ice/snow/salt ... Where I'm at the vehicles rust away before the engines and transmissions are worn out. Engine cradles, body frames, suspension parts. 200k-250k is about as far as they safely drive. Engines and Transmissions all surprisingly good for the mileage. Now, a big part of vehicle durability is demographic, wealthy owners tend to get maintenance done, keep it in a garage not on the street, and don't race between lights to slam on the brakes at lights. Most EVs are expensive and are bought buy the demographics that spend on taking care of their things. That two million km driver, slipped in about battery pack replacements, many consumers don't have enough savings for a battery replacement (news reports say high % don't have emergency $500) but they do have savings to buy a new car on a long stretch of payments. So they scrap the old car and buy the new one (or lease it).
This is unfortunately true. All aluminum and or the correct composites are the way to go for the future. EV will still be the choice for salty conditions, because they will cost half as much and wont rust any worse than ICE vehicles.
Look at how Tesla is using cast aluminum for the structural parts. No rusting away there. Other parts would need to be made of non-corrosive materials or designed for easy replacement.
Excellent video! Thanks Sam for extrapolating out what is coming. Few people have stopped and realized that EV tech itself will destroy the standard model of car sales and manufacture that we have today. It will all have to radically change and most likely drastically shrink.
Here in Canada cars die of rust because of the road salts needed to control ice on the road. I’ve had a Chrysler Caravan that I had to scrap because I could see through the rear side door. It was seven years old, one year after I finished paying for it. That’s “programmed obsolescence” for you.
I dunno this has never happened to me, and I don't wash my vehicle that often. Have a 2003 Cavalier I bought new but I live in the warm part of Canada (we still salt for 2-3 months). You might wanna spray down your vehicle around the wheels sometimes if there's snow, mud, and salt stuck in there. With work trucks we usually washed them a lot.
Canada? If I'm not mistaken Canada is not a third world country or is it? Have you guys heard of coating techniques to address that problem? I have. And I live in poorest country of Europe. A simple 300-500 euros coating job is what you should have done the next day you bought your Chrysler Caravan. But I guess you can blow your money as you like.
@@KaiPonte winter freezing usually lasts about 14 weeks. Hosing off on non freezing days is a good idea if you pass on the Mrs. Opportunity or quit drinking Coors while watches sports. Freezing days and cleaning the salt off will only piss off Hilda my neighbor. Or you can move to Phoenix like I am gonna.
I think there will still be a call for people to own cars (particularly rural areas). However, robotaxis/robo car hire*, when they are ubiquitous will negate the reasons for multiple cars per household. * when talking about “robotaxi” (Uber/Taxis) I immediately think of purpose destination travel. The reason for “robo hire cars” is to differentiate for journeys where you need the car for days or weeks (Visa/Hertz). Or do these become undifferentiated. This will hit rental companies also.
My 2013 iPad mini 2 is still running fine. As for cars the 2012 Maxima and 2014 BRZ are likewise running fine. I imagine the right EV will become the last car I'll ever buy so a Tesla M3P should do me fine. Look after your stuff and your stuff will look after you!
Regarding the iPad, I know for a fact that you are lying, i may be working fine, but you cannot upgrade it nor can you install new stuff or update existing apps, in my world that means it is not working at all
Tesla customer service is terrible but the software support for legacy vehicles hasn't been too bad. At the moment, it's about 6-8 years before they stop sending updates
The next revolution we need is ease of repairing the battery. Easy removal, easy testing and easy cell and module replacement along with pack standardization and upgradability. This should be Tesla's next party trick and what we need to make the whole thing more sustainable.
I have a 25-year-old Ford pickup truck that works like new. It doesn't have 1,000,000 miles on it because I use it for truck stuff, not car stuff. I can fix almost anything that goes wrong with it by myself for a reasonable price, and I certainly don't need to worry about software problems.
It might work like new but it is poisoning people right now with its emissions and its CO2 emissions will make life very difficult for your grandchildren. They will curse us for not getting rid of fossil fuels a lot sooner.
160k miles on our 2016 Model X P100… owned multiple Lexus, Acura, Hondas and Toyotas- the Tesla is the lowest maintenance vehicle we’ve ever owned- by far. Battery max was 260 miles when new- now max is 248 miles. I bought it for the absurd acceleration and speed- never expected it to be such a maintenance free car.
Viking, you did it again. You mentioned the Tesla roadster and it tugged on my heart. The new Tesla roadster was so beautiful and so fast! I cannot imagine why Tesla never actually built it. Tesla already had a prototype and could’ve set up a small factory where they produce them slowly. They could have sold them for a quarter of $1 million a piece. What a halo car. Why not ,why not?
In the early days of the light bulb, light bulbs had the critical flaw of lasting practically forever. Manufactures realized the emergency and agreed on giving light bulbs a lifetime of 1000 hours.
I worry that the auto industry will look at some sort of built in obsolescence for EVs too. I hope not because it will be so much less wasteful not needing to go through many vehicles in a lifetime. I think they will still probably sell enough cos so many people want to buy the latest and greatest model. I've been driving for 35 years, I've gone through four cars, one car I sold because it was costing too much in repairs, another had a bad cylinder and not economical to repair, the other 2 had problems with the transmission and again too expensive to repair. What we are seeing with high milage Tesla's is also being seen in Chinese BYD taxis.
The ones that lasted a long time also had very low energy efficiency. They agreed on a 1000 hour limit so the power companies wouldn't have to spend a ton of money upgrading their power plants just so everybody could use these terribly inefficient lights. It actually costs less to buy a new lightbulb every other year than to be constantly buy 3x more electricity.
With NIO battery swap you can update to the latest battery tech for the life of the car. The car parks itself swaps the battery and provides coffee the way you like it in less than 3 minutes.
@@shannon6876 You lack of any real knowledge on what a battery swap station actually does is awesome. Batteries are charged, tested, and exchange power to balance the grid.
I retired from the big 3, and I have been saying this since 2019 to everyone in the business that would listen, many of them my long time friends. EV, and especially if they are built like Tesla, will eliminate the vast majority of jobs in America in the automotive industry. Still think EV are expensive? Most people will only need to own 2 cars in their entire lifetime.
Why should EVs eliminate non automotive jobs? Isn't it a good thing that a polluting global warming contributing industry that is responsible for many deaths of vulnerable people and for the deaths of generations as yet unborn, is ended?
As for the myth that EVs are too expensive, they are high end performance luxury cars. Look at the price of an ICE Mustang GT with nearly 500 hp and 600 ft lbs of torque, with Brembos and Magnaride suspension, and Bluecruise, and suddenly the cost is very competitive, especially when you start factoring in 93 octain fillups with full syn oil changes. And if the car will last a million miles, cheaper.
I owned a great ice car for 13 years. Ran well when I moved on. My train for moving on was simply a mix of boredom and a wish to get things like adaptive cruise control and Bluetooth audio, not an option in 2007 when I got it.
Sixty years ago I used to lurk around car lots as a kid 'cause I loved cars. The cars I saw in the back of the lot were the ten-year old vehicles from the early and mid-fifties. Usually, they had about 70-80,000 miles and they were 'used up.' I was tasked with 'starting them' and 'exercising these old clunkers - typically, you could buy them for under $300.00 - and I discovered a rule when I smashed the door of a nearby car. What happened was there were no brakes - these suckers didn't have but one 'brake system/reservoir' and if that one failed, you had no brakes. Always check the brakes before you check the go. The point is these cars were crap in about eight years. This was the heyday of fins, chrome and.... rust ... and overall, the most modest vehicles (6cyl with 3 on the tree) had a simple down-draft carb and a six-volt system that any jackleg could work on. But it was planned obsolescence at its peak.
Amazing. I sold a 10 year old Toyota The engine still looked completely new.It didn't use any oil and oil never looked dirty. The car was still tight ,as new. Obviously a car built to last 25 plus years Thanks Toyota for your service.
In the "olden days" before longevity became a selling point, it was normal for car manufacturers not to bother with any rustproofing - built-in obsolescence. And cars used to rot from day 1.
Given the improving EV longevity, it is in car companies interest to make the fancy electronics easily upgradeable, not just replaceable. Better dash desgins, drop in replacement unit - the heart need not be any larger than a decent phone, screens should be slot in.
Most car companies have no desire for their products to last a lifetime…..it’s not good for business. That’s why they lobby behind the scenes to thwart all things Tesla.
The reality is somewhere in the middle. ICE mileages are pretty low, because they're so complex and ultimately too expensive to repair when they're old for the average owner. Sure, some of us repair them and keep them going, but even then it's hard to keep them going past 300K miles. It's easy to predict that EVs ought to last at least twice as long at ICE cars. When you look at the life of the first generaton cells and compare them with Lithium Iron Phosphate cells, you can see how these really high mileages are going to get higher. The upshot of this is that we'll only need a half to one third of the Car manufacturing capacity that we currently have. That's going to make a huge difference to climate change. It ought to be possible to buy an ancient car with astronomic mileage, even though the battery may have degraded to a fraction of it's manufactured capacity. For a second car, that's going to be just fine. 100 miles range for a second car is perfectly satisfactory.
The battery will just get recycled in 10 years (they'll pay you for the metal value) then you'll install a new solid state battery or whatever we have in a decade which will be more affordable than now
When it comes to predictions humans are way way beyond their capabilities, we simply don't have that gift. You said: "It's easy to predict that EVs ought to last at least twice as long at ICE cars", well I have a Fiat Stilo from 2003, 5 doors. Very rare minor repairs, the top I spent was 300+ euros and only once. Other than that I only need oil changes. So that car is with me for 24 years now. Can an EV beat this kind of longevity reliability and durability? NEVER! When the time comes to replace the battery you will spend around 20,000 euros at least. My friend we need a few decades for EVs to become reliable durable and have a cheap maintenance. After all ICE cars needed quite a few decades to become reliable. Also EVs have too much electronics, so more failing points, and we know how much electronics fail don't we? But the main reason EVs will not last twice ICE cars is because of the so called planned obsolescence. Please remember manufacturers do their best not to make the best possible product but to make the worst possible product that you can still buy. The days manufacturers made things to last decades are OVER. Nowadays every is utterly crap and we still buy it. It's funny we deny things we don't like, it's human nature to do that, the problem is that we can get burned when we deny the evidence.
@@profounddamas Well, I think you are not really telling us the truth, or you must be a time traveler! Having a 2003 car already 24 years doesn't ad up, unless you live in the year 2027.
Most American ICE vehicles are engineered to last exactly 5 years or 60,000 miles before breaking down. I worked at one of the big American automaker car factory and they told me this on orientation day. Basically they buy the cheapest parts that allow them to last within the warranty period before failing.
Contact multiple insurance companies and you will get very different quotes, my insurance got a little cheaper for my Model Y compared to my 13 years old C4 Grand Picasso when I changed insurance company, actually all my insurances got cheaper
Insurance costs will come down as EV prices continue to be reduced. Also, many repair shops are afraid of the unknown. I had guys that did a sit down work refusal over working on changing out the batteries. After a 30 minute hands on training, a 2 man crew could swap out a battery in 35 minutes, and this crew did over 300 battery swaps over the next several days. Business as usual.
@@larryc1616 I’ve used Tesla insurance in MN since Feb for MOdel Y. It’s only offered in 10 or so states so far, but we’re one of them. I have typical coverage 100/300 and $1k deductible on collision and comprehensive . They give a starting safety score of 90 which is $120/mo. I got a quote from Progressive for $115 so I decided to try Tesla. Since Feb its gone up to $163 as of last month because our safety score has decreased to 85. The decrease is really not accurate or fair IMO. We’re both 50+ and drive very conservatively (no tickets or accidents in 15 years) but my wife keeps getting bogus forward collision warnings. I’ve gotten several as well and they really are bogus. I was just about to give up on Tesla Ins and move to Progressive but just got an update announcement via app to their safety score system (still in Beta) that increased our score from 90 to 96, since yesterday w/o even driving it! So maybe that’ll fix it. I have a friend of same age here in MN who uses a Tesla insurance and has an $85/mo premium. But he uses FSD all the time everywhere. He’s a an Elon -nut- fan ..😃
I think it’s great when products, any products, have a longer economic life. It’s about time that cars, a major investment for the average Joe, should last longer. Sustainability is necessary and imperative to protect this wonderful blue planet for future generations.
If Aptera makes it to market, it addresses the issue you talk about, cars with generational longevity yet marginal maintenance required. Few talk about this, thank you for doing it. Environmental awareness is up 👍
Semi trucks have to get replacement engines at 500,000 for commercial uses in America. The dealership makes up to 70% off service. No wonder they hate these things. People want and love them but dealers don't want to sell them. I can only imagine the staying power of a Tesla Semi or other EV commercial trucks. Less parts the better. No more super slow uphill trucks either. No more air brake bans on downhill sections either.
They may "have" to where you are. ...But they don't actually have to in other places. Over here in Aus, I watched the odometer of my previous K200 I was driving roll over, and the company didn't get rid of it until it's second time it approached a million K's, just with me driving it. The previous driver had also watched the odometer roll over, "after" the original driver who had it from brand new saw it roll the odometer over almost for a second time. ...So at least 3.5 million pretty reliable kilometres. And this is nothing unusual in the long distance, interstate road transport industry at all.
No the ice engine brands are doing everything possible to prevent EV's going mainstream. The lost to them on maintenance alone is huge; Oil & filter changes Differential fluid changes Spark plugs and coils Engine air filter Timing belt Exhaust muffler and pipes Radiator flushes, Thermostats, Water pump, Fuel injection cleaning Fuel filter Catalytic converter O2 sensors Engine pistons connecting rods, valves Shop Supplies! To name a few...
But the EV haters say they last less miles than ICE vehicles, and they are less reliable, and they require more maintenance, and they depreciate much faster than ICE, and the batteries need to be replaced within the first 10 years. Are you telling us that is not true? Next you are going to tell us that EVs are safer, quieter, greener, with better performance, more features, can be refueled at home, and can improve regularly with OTA updates.
@@Slaytheday388Uh, no NIOs here in Thailand. And I would never buy from a car company that also makes clothes, perfume, liquor, and other bs. Tesla is the gold standard by which all other EVs are measured.
@@Slaytheday388Will Nio be there in 10 years. I'm sure CATL or BYD will offer battery packs for Models 3 and Y in a few years, as the cars get much older.
Good to keep in mind many people buy new ICE vehicles, not because they are totally worn out, but rather for numerous other reasons, they newer much wanted technology, quieter ride, faster acceleration, better designs, or they just get tired of driving same vehicle year after year. It's a safe bet EV technology is going to continue to improve year after year, along with improved EV designs and features, and more efficient EV drive systems and longer range/faster charging battery, I think it's a safe bet we will see increasing EV sales for many decades to come, and those selling EV's won't have anything to worry about..
Electric cars are much more simple than ICE cars, so they do indeed have the potential of needing far less repairs. I dont really care about ultra high miles, as I will not drive that far before the car is outdated anyway, but lower running costs matter a lot.
Finding parts for old cars like my 24 year old Infinity's windshield can be difficult. This is why people buy newer vehicles. An EV just makes sense if in the market for a newer car. Getting off the oil tit is the main one IMO.
Totally agree with your overview Sam. I'd quess 70% of car owners have not realised how well electric cars are holding up and how much cheaper they are to run. The ev industry is still in it's early adoption phase. 5 years from now there will be a huge choice of non franchised back street repair shops for ev owners which will bring the costs down even further. I also expect Elon to meet his promise of reducing his production costs down by half. Cheaper ev's as well as a continued better product will be a no brainer for car owners sooner rather than later!
@@howardj602 My understanding is a lawsuit was won for the right to repair John Deere machines but not 100% sure. I'm talking about after warranty repairs. I know of a few garages here in the UK who are repairing Tesla's and reducing the costs compaired to the main Tesla dealers.
Aluminum does rust just like iron. However, the layer of aluminum rust protects the underlying metal whereas iron rust just falls off leaving the underlying metal exposed to the elements.
Our first TV, a British-made Pye 110 Portable (it weighed a ton but had a handle on the top) meant that the TV repair man joined the milkman, baker and butcher on the list of tradesmen making regular house calls. TVs are now both astonishingly good value, very reliable and last well beyond the point that most owners want a newer design ("At last it's broken, Dear. Now can I buy a shiny new one?") If they do go wrong they can seldom be repaired economically. I see vehicles following a similar path. Enthusiasts and tinkerers will have plenty of old ICE machines to play with for as long as they live, but most car users will be happy with an EV: quiet, smooth, cheap to run, reliable and "just works". EVs may not on their own fix the atmosphere but they will help a lot. The recycling issue however remains unclear. If cars are designed to be recycled they will be, provided recycled materials are cost-competitive with new materials. My concern with batteries is that since we are seeing ever more cheap and abundant elements used in their production there may be less incentive to recycle. On the other hand there are many uses for batteries whose energy density is no longer cutting edge, as they don't all have to be 'portable' ...
One day, I will probably buy a Tesla, I have 3 old 2000 Honda Insights that get an easy 70 mpg when it's cold outside. Over 100mpg if you are trying for mileage. Now they are putting lithium batteries in them they can get 150 to 200 mpg. IMO, the best hybrid ever made. We have some really really smart guys working on these cars.
"New cars" are rapidly becoming obsolete. In 2-3 years time, robotaxis will be upon us... Only diehard drivers and petrol heads will bother to drive, and deal with the upkeep of the car. For the rest of us, especially with 50 + years of driving and dirty and oily maintenance,, the convenience, ease of use, and zero maintenance will be an irresistible attraction...
I know I will be getting rid of my cars once robotaxis become common. No more of payments, insurance, drivers licenses, repair bills, inspections, and years of wasted time for all the above.
They won't. Maybe the battery and drivetrain will last that long but they'll still rust out from under you if you don't live in a desert. Various electronics modules will fail and be unrepairable.
@@spankeyfish If you're building a 'lifetime' car then you're going to use aluminum rather than steel that will rust. You'll design for easy replacement of parts that might fail.
Electric vehicles are like smartphones. In a decade the technology in them become obsolete and like your cell phone they will not no longer support updates and to upgrade the car into the new technology would be cost prohibitive to most car owners.How many people still are using PlayStation 1 through 4. I have an old Sony web TV I can no longer use other than as a monitor. I believe it has Microsoft components which they will no longer support. Add to that the fact that there is not enough copper in the world to support the infrastructure upgrade to support the chargers required for the government's goals. It is said that for the next 10 years, it would take twice the amount of copper mined since the beginning of copper mining. You add to that all the homes old or to be built out there that eventually would be required to upgrade electrical systems to handle the fast chargers. Homes here in Minnesota require that play comma to meet energy savings they must have a minimum amount of insulation in the ceilings and walls and windows and all the appliances have to meet certain energy standards. Homes are very expensive as a result and imagine what it will cost to meet these future upgrades. Electric cars will just be another added cost of persons everyday life. By the way I made this comment before watching his explanation of this. If they made simple electric vehicles that got you from point a to b with all these electronics then they could be affordable. But as of now these vehicles will price most people out of the market due to the required replacement cost of the technology in them just to keep them on the road..
Car companies are already switching to the subscription model, that is, if you want your system software updated you have to buy a monthly service. General motors in the U.S. has dropped Apple car play and Android auto for their EVs and moved to Google and require an On Star plan to be able to use aps downloaded to the vehicle. So if you want the big screen aps you must pay.
Maybe there will be much more customers for EV in future. China, Middle East, Africa, India >5 billion ppl. Yes they are poor now but this could change. EV will be cheaper and more suitable for these regions, like they could charge with Solar much better and don´t need special repair shops, knowlege of supply chain for complex gas cars repair.
There is a three wheel, two seater solar car called Aptera in pre-production stage. They also give (right to repair) to potential buyers. I ordered one but not holding my breath as they are very slow to start production.
1:58 Because car engines are made of aluminum and must be replaced after 300,000 km due to friction with the piston And the combustion process But if the engine is made of stainless steel it will last forever but is heavier and more expensive.
My 2020 Model Y has 240,000 miles on it. My battery is at about 85% original range. I have never replaced the brakes on a Tesla car and still don't need to. I looked into taking advantage of the 0.99% interest rate on a new Model Y, just for a refresh. However, no one wants a Model Y with 240,000 miles. Even Tesla would only give me $12,000 on trade in. So, I'm heading to 500,000 miles. I'll let you know how that goes ;)
I often change ICE cars at the 10 year mark or 100K miles before it needs major maintenance. Even if you’re diligent to replace high cost items, old ICE cars aren’t worth the trouble and expense. Although I’m skeptical about keeping an EV for a million miles, 200K miles would be a good goal.
The Volvo was beat by one other EV, though its initial launch on a Falcon Heavy had some emissions, and the rest of its distance has been done by coasting.
Brigs an strat engines are a good example,ppl complained about the guts piston,rod wearing out too soon so they fixed that but the other stuff goes first /faster,,,the beat goes on. Laa de da de dee
Avoiding technology obsolescence is not the main threat. The main threat is that most people will decide they no longer need a car with MaaS becoming a realistic and practical option. If an autonomous car is going to take me the last mile for $99 per month, then why would I bother driving a brand new car out of the showroom and instantly lose 10%? This is why being first to market and having a massive moat is actually more important than any other industry. When public transport and private transport merges, the Tesla needs to be the standard through sheer numbers. Not enough people will care if it has superficial features like auto-wipers - do you worry about that when you catch the train? What they will care about is whether my existing Tesla can make me money or how reliable is that Uber Tesla when it comes to picking me up every morning at 7am.
It's called "planned obsolescence." My friend's dad still had his razor given to him during WWII that wouldn't dull. Yet almost all razors today need replacing. There is no future profit in a product that you only sell once. This holds true for automobiles where the reason that they don't last was known and where the quote above comes from. American cars were getting so good that they started to last a very long time. Auto execs discovered that if they made the cars purposely didn't last that they would have repeat sales. The quality of Americans dropped in the 1960s and 70s. The only problem was that the Japanese didn't get the memo. Side by side the Japanese cars were much more solidly built with welds while American cars were made of thin metal and bolted together, and they lasted much longer. During the oil crisis in the US Japan gobbled up market share taking the top sales spot with the Toyota, Corolla. As the oil crisis subsided the quality of Japanese cars kept their customers by providing larger less efficient cars of quality like the Toyota, Camry, which in the 1980s was the best selling car in the US.
You can either get refurbishment where only tthe duff cells are replaced or a complete batery from a totaled newer model. The Nissan Leaf is designed with battery repairability and replacement in mind, unlike many others.
There are more things that wear out apart from the drive train. As a car gets older the paint fails, the interior wears out, all parts that are touched wear out, plastic gets brittle and breaks, headlights fog up. Eventually it is not worth repairing. How much would it cost to change the carpet and redo all the seats? Even if the car is still running will anyone spend money on a 20yo car to replace the seats and steering wheel? Maybe not.
The other advantage of EV is that it has room to grow, i.e. battery technology advancement has a higher ceiling limit. A 1000 mile per charge can be achieved in the near near future. On the other hand, ICE can only go so much. You can't extract any more power from an already FULLY OPTIMIZED combustion engine unless a new ICE technology can compete with battery tech - soon.
In the Northeast USA, we are lucky to get a car to go ten to 12 winters without the body rusting out. When the structural parts are gone, it isn't worth trying to fix.
Head's up Sam! In Canada no car runs a half million miles. None ever will - not now that Saturn is long-gone. Cars rust. Saturn built with plastic composite body panels. If you can find one - they're all 15+ years old now - they still look brand new. Tesla should build with composite panels. Cheaper to make; cheaper to repair (you just replace a damaged section - for cheap); and much, much lighter. Stronger: y9u hang them on a proper 3d space frame. Arrival was going to build EV vans with composite panels. It's toast. But not because the design was flawed. Tesla should build this way. Then the body would last as long as the battery. And the cars could shed a LOT of weight.
Composites are probably not so crash resistance though. There is a lot of lively debate about Al, Fe-alloys and carbon fiber composites at the moment. Seems like the jury is still out in respect of longevity and resilience.
@@G_C340 Most places that get heavy snowfall use salt or salt derivatives. In western U.S. many municipalities use sand instead of salt. I live on the east coast and we use salt here...but I have gotten under carriage spray protection done to most of my cars and that has protected them very well against rusting.
II have a Honda insight 2000 hybrid. Aluminum frame and the first car with a battery pack in North America. It was a not a lithium pack but nickel cadmium. Now there is a community modification to install a lithium battery pack and a 40% power hack. That will happen to current EV with future power sources
In my opinion the bits that determine how long a car will last are not engines, transmissions or other big ticket items. It is the synthetic or rubbery bits. Hoses, seals, belts, grommets, washers etc. EV's too will have to deal with this problem as they age, though to a much lesser extent. In isolation a "perishable" failure though is usually just a nuisance but there are so many of these bits that eventually the car becomes so unreliable that we just get rid of it.
I like Tony Seba's predictions so much I will make one of my own: Aftermarket battery packs will become DIRT CHEAP within TEN years (maybe within FIVE). You can ALREADY get a replacement pack for a Nissan Leaf - they are just NOT cheap (yet). When cheap Sodium Ion cells hit the market (little tiny trickle so far) anyone with a decent amount of knowledge will be able to make their own pack. Why? Because the HARD part is the battery cells - the rest of it is (relatively) simple. Companies like Ford, Tesla, John Deere, BYD, etc will try to "wall off" their batteries with proprietary software and will likely go to HUGE lengths to make "reverse engineering" the battery difficult (because ..."safety", the fallback they use - like Apple with cables - when they can't stop honest people any other way).
Having the batteries is fine if you you are trained to work on 600 too 800V dc systems without making yourself crispy. I have worked in electronics for 49 years and I would be very wary.
@@stevewilliams430 You are correct, and I probably understated how important that is. The average plant maintenance millwright or electrician (with a ticket) is trained to work with that kind of voltage. Maybe it's just that I know a bunch of people like that, who would be pretty much able to work around DC high voltage because they already do. I also think the "average" millwright or electrician is probably a lot smarter than the "average" person, but that's just an opinion.
If you bought a EV with 200k miles for about 6k and your future expenses are maybe 10k EVs are a no brainer. Fuel is stable and cheap and performance is no big deal. Hoping my LFP model 3 could last that long or longer
17 year-old suv , diesel, under 100k miles, with out dpf, waiting for EV-suv real open road range of at list 400+ miles (to only charge at home), for 40-45k$
If you buy a used car with 200,000 km in Sweden, you normally are the fourth or fifth driving owner. Every day there are some new people who want some kind of affordable car. The problem with old ICE cars is if you repair it for 2,000 euro, you don't know when the next repair of 2-3,000 euro comes. There are so many parts/"modules" that can fail, and most of the expensive repairs are related to the engine and transmission. In fact this is a no brainer. As an average.
That's an improvement, but what I would like to know is how many years of "normal usage" can that battery last? 4 years? 6 years? 10 years? 20 years? Another big improvement would be a system that would make replacing a battery so simple that the owner could do it by himself without going to the car workshop. I mean in those sci-fi movies you see the users of a small space ship changing the power modules by themselves 😏 Why can't EV owners do it? Could it be because we are in the pre-historic era of EVs?
That is what happened with an appliance company that made the appliances so reliable no parts were needed and the business lost so much money. Planned obsolescence is a business strategy to limit the longevity of designed parts and businesses do that so parts are needed.
Legacy Automotive OEMs intentionally reduced the lifespan of ICE vehicles circa 1960-1980 to make more recurring sales. My aunt’s Mercedes-Benz 220d ran fine for about 20 years. 1950s American cars are still being maintained and operated in Cuba. The planned obsolescence of automobiles is similar to the historical planned obsolescence of light bulbs by colluding manufacturers.
Sam,iam an 82 year old I have had or owned 15 odd cars in my lifetime,petrol, diesel,station wagons,sedans,i have been a car enthusiast all my life,towed caravans,i am now the owner of a Tesla YRWD the most magnificent vehicle i have ever owned,I get excited whenever i get in it to go somewhere,I also own a 2006 Getz 1.6 with 94,000ks on the clock never given an ounce of trouble the original old ladies car looks like new all the best from Perth
@HeiNz0304 Man, you trolls are slow. That's why anyone follows him, for news on Tesla. Of course, if ANYONE else could build an ev they could deliver here, we're interested, and Sam will report on it (eg BYD). So why not go back to sucking on your diesels tailpipe. 😅
@@HeiNz03 How much is he gettin paid?
Thanks for sharing this! I have never owned a EV, Tesla is the Only one I am interested in,Mainky because of the Outstanding charging infrastructure. BYD is next though.
@@dporrasxtremeLS3 China is a fascist country, we must be careful not to give them too much power. Most EV batteries come from China, we must build robots so we can build competitive batteries in the West. Volvo, MG and Lotus are now owned by the Chinese.
Love my model 3
I recently bought a 2018 Model 3 at auction. It was salvaged by the insurance company due to front end damage. I bought a number of parts from Tesla, but also from the growing after-market industry. Due to the sales volume of these cars, and the low change of many parts, this is a profitable business for the after-market. This should enable extending the service life of many of these cars.
That’s good to know. My mechanic of ICE vehicles told me that more and more auto scrap yards are selling off their ICE vehicle inventory as scrap metal.
My ice car oil pan gasket got broken by the dealership when they tried to do an oil change. Most likely happened when they over tighten it. To replace the oil pan cost $700. That's the sort of unnecessary maintenance people don't want to subjected to.
EVs, are the big bull shit lie I will never buy one I will get a horse.
Viking I have just taken delivery of my first EV a Tesla model Y. Previously I owned two Toyota hybrids. An Australian made Camry from 2010 and a RAV 4 Cruiser. The model Y is superb and definitely a cut above any other previous vehicle. I look back over the 15 ICE vehicles I have owned since 1969 and feel completely used and ripped off. This entire industry is designed to provide you with vehicles that fail and require upkeep and maintenance while depreciating on a daily basis.
I have owned more than 50 cars since 1957 & was only 1 that I sold because I was not happy with it
> while depreciating on a daily basis
Umm, sure, EVs have an incredibly higher depreciating rate than ICEs... Nobody wants them when the battery is out/nearing end of warranty. And ask Hertz/Sixt how happy they were with their "low maintenace" EVs...
@@hiram1923any source to learn more?
@@hiram1923 Rental cars, driven by half wits who don't know how to use EV's.
@@pauls3075EVs are not all good
I'm a senior citizen and all of my cars have died from cancer, not mechanical problems. Here in the rust belt road salt really does a number on steel to the point where a lot of people drive their cars way past being safe because the frames are half gone.
The Teslas have alloy gigacastings so rust shouldn't be a problem in those structural parts of the body.
@@aftonlineif salt is used on the roads the giga casting will be be effected the same. It's called galvanic corrosion.
If I lived there I would only buy old beaters.
Here in the UK we have an annual test and cars that are rusted in safety critical areas are denied a test certificate. That means they cannot legally be driven on public roads.
That is why the work of Louis Rossman and Rich Rebuilds is so important. EVs are not black boxes, they can be fixed and should be fixed and maintained.
Especially in case the manufacturer tries to deny your car from working.
a lotr of the big electronic companies wont supply schematics, check out louis rossman, and the chinese have a habit of grinding the part numbers off their chips so you cant identify it to replace them if you do pinpoint it to that chip, when one considers that heat is the death sentence for most electrical components, i wonder how long these screens will last in a car parked out in the sun. i have actually cooked a xmas pudding in a closed up car on a sunny day
@@debeerizwell here it is. My 2015 screen is melting. Leaking the glue. Tesla have a new one in stock with better glue that doesn't melt. Not bad considering it's the first big problem $2500 fitted new upgraded version.
@@waynelevett3632Still an oof but for an 8+ year old car with I presume few issues that’s still good. A normal ICE would rack up far more in regular maintenance costs alone not counting repairs.
@@debeerizSunshades and cracking windows helps tremendously.
@@howardj602 John Deere is a criminal conspiracy masquerading as a legitimate company.
Which, come to think of it, describes a lot of OEMs - Dieselgate, Toyota's "tests", Nissan and Ghosn, Ford and the Pinto, ...
Ive just bought a 1 year old MG HS PHEV, as I wasnt prepared to go full electric yet. I drive most of the time in pure EV mode and love it. Hybrid mode only used for country driving, but suburban/ city driving all EV.
The tesla owner of the 2 million mile had a lot of repairs on his car. I have seen an interview with him. New motors, new battery pack etc.
I usually buy a two year old car. I then drive it till it dies. The engine and parts expense grows until it is economically not worth repairing. Also the chassis rusts and unsafe repairs are needed. If EVs had an aluminium chassis, replacing an EV engine would not be costly, might still need replacement of electronic components. Sounds good to me.
Battery replacement also depends on one's driving requirement. Also by the time the battery of a new EV degrades significantly, EV super charging will have become more prevelent, which will help offset the longer range requirements of batteries.
Also super charging will degrade batteries much faster.
In what watydoes super charging differ from Level 3 Rapid charging?
My wife's 2018 M3 still has 98% of its original battery capacity after 6+ years and my previous two MS's also had negligible battery degradation as well, so we are not seeing battery degradation as being an issue for us.
I was spending $400 dollars a month on gasoline filling up my ICE car for several years before I decided to buy a Tesla. After driving the Tesla model 3, my only regret is not buying one sooner. I saved so much money that even when I buy a new battery, it is still much cheaper than how much I spent on gasoline, oil changes, radiator leaks, water pump issues, smog checks, oil changes, and so much time saved from all of the ICE maintenance requirements.
I am so glad EV's exist, they are definately light years ahead of ICE cars.
Hey Sam, I am 84 and live in Florida. Rats got in my 1999 Honda CR-V during the pandemic because the car did not move. Chewed the wires off the car's computer. Spent almost $2,000 fixing it up with a mobile mechanic who is from Boston now Florida. He did a GREAT job. We re-named my car, it is now called the Ratmobile. I am all in favor of electric cars and watch your videos religiously. But I don't need more than $9000 Seagull for going 1-2 miles to Publix :) ! Watch this video about NYC. My daughter lives there and has a green Mini just like the one in the video that cracked me up with the extension cord draping here and then there. This guy should be on Jimmy Kimmel. Please make a video addressing the NYC guy's laundry list of reasons why he's not buying an EV and neither is anyone else. He's right on the money with his list. When do you think all these laundry list of problems will be solved ?
Exactly! That is one of the reasons I am buying a Cyber truck. It should be the last car that I buy for myself. Assuming no accidents.
Assuming Elon doesn't push the "Random Self Combustion" button... Just be careful what you say on internet about your Tesla.
@@stefan2796 Usual nonsense about EVs self combusting, conveniently omitting to mention that EVs are twenty times less likely to do so than ICE cars.
Sam, you live where there is no ice/snow/salt ... Where I'm at the vehicles rust away before the engines and transmissions are worn out. Engine cradles, body frames, suspension parts. 200k-250k is about as far as they safely drive. Engines and Transmissions all surprisingly good for the mileage. Now, a big part of vehicle durability is demographic, wealthy owners tend to get maintenance done, keep it in a garage not on the street, and don't race between lights to slam on the brakes at lights. Most EVs are expensive and are bought buy the demographics that spend on taking care of their things. That two million km driver, slipped in about battery pack replacements, many consumers don't have enough savings for a battery replacement (news reports say high % don't have emergency $500) but they do have savings to buy a new car on a long stretch of payments. So they scrap the old car and buy the new one (or lease it).
This is unfortunately true. All aluminum and or the correct composites are the way to go for the future. EV will still be the choice for salty conditions, because they will cost half as much and wont rust any worse than ICE vehicles.
Look at how Tesla is using cast aluminum for the structural parts. No rusting away there. Other parts would need to be made of non-corrosive materials or designed for easy replacement.
@@bobwallace9753you do realise salt effects aluminium just as much as steel?
@@dikkybee4003
I spent several years as a blue water sailor. I know you are misleading people.
@@bobwallace9753 I worked on Navy ships and the aluminium parts basically turned to white salt and dissolved. Obviously your the one passing on BS.
Excellent video! Thanks Sam for extrapolating out what is coming. Few people have stopped and realized that EV tech itself will destroy the standard model of car sales and manufacture that we have today. It will all have to radically change and most likely drastically shrink.
Based on the videos I've watched and your assessment of EV's everyone should own an EV.
Here in Canada cars die of rust because of the road salts needed to control ice on the road. I’ve had a Chrysler Caravan that I had to scrap because I could see through the rear side door. It was seven years old, one year after I finished paying for it. That’s “programmed obsolescence” for you.
Do you folks have access to "Under Coating?" That seemed to work to combat effects of salt on Onion winter roads.
I dunno this has never happened to me, and I don't wash my vehicle that often. Have a 2003 Cavalier I bought new but I live in the warm part of Canada (we still salt for 2-3 months). You might wanna spray down your vehicle around the wheels sometimes if there's snow, mud, and salt stuck in there.
With work trucks we usually washed them a lot.
Canada? If I'm not mistaken Canada is not a third world country or is it? Have you guys heard of coating techniques to address that problem? I have. And I live in poorest country of Europe. A simple 300-500 euros coating job is what you should have done the next day you bought your Chrysler Caravan. But I guess you can blow your money as you like.
I've heard about salt on roads. Sounds dreadful. Curious, why not hose the car off after getting home
@@KaiPonte winter freezing usually lasts about 14 weeks. Hosing off on non freezing days is a good idea if you pass on the Mrs. Opportunity or quit drinking Coors while watches sports. Freezing days and cleaning the salt off will only piss off Hilda my neighbor. Or you can move to Phoenix like I am gonna.
I think there will still be a call for people to own cars (particularly rural areas). However, robotaxis/robo car hire*, when they are ubiquitous will negate the reasons for multiple cars per household.
* when talking about “robotaxi” (Uber/Taxis) I immediately think of purpose destination travel. The reason for “robo hire cars” is to differentiate for journeys where you need the car for days or weeks (Visa/Hertz). Or do these become undifferentiated. This will hit rental companies also.
My 2013 iPad mini 2 is still running fine. As for cars the 2012 Maxima and 2014 BRZ are likewise running fine. I imagine the right EV will become the last car I'll ever buy so a Tesla M3P should do me fine. Look after your stuff and your stuff will look after you!
Regarding the iPad, I know for a fact that you are lying, i may be working fine, but you cannot upgrade it nor can you install new stuff or update existing apps, in my world that means it is not working at all
My first EV was a Nissan Leaf and it wasn't my last EV !!
Great info thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
Tesla customer service is terrible but the software support for legacy vehicles hasn't been too bad. At the moment, it's about 6-8 years before they stop sending updates
The next revolution we need is ease of repairing the battery. Easy removal, easy testing and easy cell and module replacement along with pack standardization and upgradability. This should be Tesla's next party trick and what we need to make the whole thing more sustainable.
Mechanics need to be trained. In Norway they are getting in to this.
@@paulc6766 Its more than that - its designing for serviceability and and cell traceability.
I have a 25-year-old Ford pickup truck that works like new. It doesn't have 1,000,000 miles on it because I use it for truck stuff, not car stuff. I can fix almost anything that goes wrong with it by myself for a reasonable price, and I certainly don't need to worry about software problems.
Lemme guess, you use a wood stove to heat your home too
Same for me but mine is a 91 GMC 330,000 mi and what is wrong with a wood stove
@@djt8518 WTF are you clowns watching the Electric Viking for? Shouldn’t you be watching Cooters Garage so u know how to clean your carbs?
It might work like new but it is poisoning people right now with its emissions and its CO2 emissions will make life very difficult for your grandchildren. They will curse us for not getting rid of fossil fuels a lot sooner.
160k miles on our 2016 Model X P100… owned multiple Lexus, Acura, Hondas and Toyotas- the Tesla is the lowest maintenance vehicle we’ve ever owned- by far. Battery max was 260 miles when new- now max is 248 miles. I bought it for the absurd acceleration and speed- never expected it to be such a maintenance free car.
When I was a kid I had a nylon comb. It never wore out, so we got plastic instead.
Viking, you did it again. You mentioned the Tesla roadster and it tugged on my heart. The new Tesla roadster was so beautiful and so fast! I cannot imagine why Tesla never actually built it. Tesla already had a prototype and could’ve set up a small factory where they produce them slowly. They could have sold them for a quarter of $1 million a piece. What a halo car. Why not ,why not?
In the early days of the light bulb, light bulbs had the critical flaw of lasting practically forever. Manufactures realized the emergency and agreed on giving light bulbs a lifetime of 1000 hours.
"Good"(!?) Xenon seems to last 10-13 years when used every day both day and night.
I worry that the auto industry will look at some sort of built in obsolescence for EVs too. I hope not because it will be so much less wasteful not needing to go through many vehicles in a lifetime. I think they will still probably sell enough cos so many people want to buy the latest and greatest model.
I've been driving for 35 years, I've gone through four cars, one car I sold because it was costing too much in repairs, another had a bad cylinder and not economical to repair, the other 2 had problems with the transmission and again too expensive to repair. What we are seeing with high milage Tesla's is also being seen in Chinese BYD taxis.
This is nonsense. Ask yourself why LED lights typically last 25,000 hours.
The ones that lasted a long time also had very low energy efficiency. They agreed on a 1000 hour limit so the power companies wouldn't have to spend a ton of money upgrading their power plants just so everybody could use these terribly inefficient lights. It actually costs less to buy a new lightbulb every other year than to be constantly buy 3x more electricity.
wrg
We love our 2020 Tesla Model Y.
Took our 2004 Toyota Sienna in for an oil change, and was given a list of needed repairs starting at over $11,000!
With NIO battery swap you can update to the latest battery tech for the life of the car. The car parks itself swaps the battery and provides coffee the way you like it in less than 3 minutes.
@@shannon6876 You lack of any real knowledge on what a battery swap station actually does is awesome. Batteries are charged, tested, and exchange power to balance the grid.
I retired from the big 3, and I have been saying this since 2019 to everyone in the business that would listen, many of them my long time friends.
EV, and especially if they are built like Tesla, will eliminate the vast majority of jobs in America in the automotive industry.
Still think EV are expensive? Most people will only need to own 2 cars in their entire lifetime.
Why should EVs eliminate non automotive jobs? Isn't it a good thing that a polluting global warming contributing industry that is responsible for many deaths of vulnerable people and for the deaths of generations as yet unborn, is ended?
Build more solar panels
Thank you for your expert advice.
@@rogerphelps9939 But a President from the past told the sheep it is a hoax.
As for the myth that EVs are too expensive, they are high end performance luxury cars. Look at the price of an ICE Mustang GT with nearly 500 hp and 600 ft lbs of torque, with Brembos and Magnaride suspension, and Bluecruise, and suddenly the cost is very competitive, especially when you start factoring in 93 octain fillups with full syn oil changes. And if the car will last a million miles, cheaper.
I owned a great ice car for 13 years. Ran well when I moved on. My train for moving on was simply a mix of boredom and a wish to get things like adaptive cruise control and Bluetooth audio, not an option in 2007 when I got it.
I have a model S 85d. It's amazing and I am going for the million klms. In Perth western Australia. Mostly on free charging 😂. Up big oil hahaha
If you really wanna screw big oil, you can also charge your tesla using electricity generated by solar energy.
Sixty years ago I used to lurk around car lots as a kid 'cause I loved cars. The cars I saw in the back of the lot were the ten-year old vehicles from the early and mid-fifties. Usually, they had about 70-80,000 miles and they were 'used up.' I was tasked with 'starting them' and 'exercising these old clunkers - typically, you could buy them for under $300.00 - and I discovered a rule when I smashed the door of a nearby car. What happened was there were no brakes - these suckers didn't have but one 'brake system/reservoir' and if that one failed, you had no brakes. Always check the brakes before you check the go. The point is these cars were crap in about eight years.
This was the heyday of fins, chrome and.... rust ... and overall, the most modest vehicles (6cyl with 3 on the tree) had a simple down-draft carb and a six-volt system that any jackleg could work on.
But it was planned obsolescence at its peak.
Amazing.
I sold a 10 year old Toyota
The engine still looked completely new.It didn't use any oil and oil never looked dirty.
The car was still tight ,as new.
Obviously a car built to last 25 plus years
Thanks Toyota for your service.
In the "olden days" before longevity became a selling point, it was normal for car manufacturers not to bother with any rustproofing - built-in obsolescence.
And cars used to rot from day 1.
Longevity has always been a selling point in my book.
I want a basic EV, a Speedo and a place to plug my phone.
You know 4 tires, a motor and a battery.
Given the improving EV longevity, it is in car companies interest to make the fancy electronics easily upgradeable, not just replaceable. Better dash desgins, drop in replacement unit - the heart need not be any larger than a decent phone, screens should be slot in.
Most car companies have no desire for their products to last a lifetime…..it’s not good for business. That’s why they lobby behind the scenes to thwart all things Tesla.
The reality is somewhere in the middle. ICE mileages are pretty low, because they're so complex and ultimately too expensive to repair when they're old for the average owner. Sure, some of us repair them and keep them going, but even then it's hard to keep them going past 300K miles.
It's easy to predict that EVs ought to last at least twice as long at ICE cars. When you look at the life of the first generaton cells and compare them with Lithium Iron Phosphate cells, you can see how these really high mileages are going to get higher.
The upshot of this is that we'll only need a half to one third of the Car manufacturing capacity that we currently have. That's going to make a huge difference to climate change.
It ought to be possible to buy an ancient car with astronomic mileage, even though the battery may have degraded to a fraction of it's manufactured capacity. For a second car, that's going to be just fine. 100 miles range for a second car is perfectly satisfactory.
The battery will just get recycled in 10 years (they'll pay you for the metal value) then you'll install a new solid state battery or whatever we have in a decade which will be more affordable than now
When it comes to predictions humans are way way beyond their capabilities, we simply don't have that gift. You said: "It's easy to predict that EVs ought to last at least twice as long at ICE cars", well I have a Fiat Stilo from 2003, 5 doors. Very rare minor repairs, the top I spent was 300+ euros and only once. Other than that I only need oil changes. So that car is with me for 24 years now. Can an EV beat this kind of longevity reliability and durability? NEVER! When the time comes to replace the battery you will spend around 20,000 euros at least. My friend we need a few decades for EVs to become reliable durable and have a cheap maintenance. After all ICE cars needed quite a few decades to become reliable. Also EVs have too much electronics, so more failing points, and we know how much electronics fail don't we?
But the main reason EVs will not last twice ICE cars is because of the so called planned obsolescence. Please remember manufacturers do their best not to make the best possible product but to make the worst possible product that you can still buy. The days manufacturers made things to last decades are OVER. Nowadays every is utterly crap and we still buy it.
It's funny we deny things we don't like, it's human nature to do that, the problem is that we can get burned when we deny the evidence.
@@-whackd Except manufacturers don't want to sell you affordable stuff, they would go out of business.
@@profounddamas Well, I think you are not really telling us the truth, or you must be a time traveler! Having a 2003 car already 24 years doesn't ad up, unless you live in the year 2027.
Most American ICE vehicles are engineered to last exactly 5 years or 60,000 miles before breaking down. I worked at one of the big American automaker car factory and they told me this on orientation day. Basically they buy the cheapest parts that allow them to last within the warranty period before failing.
$2800 per annum insurance kinda doesn't help the course unfortunately
Contact multiple insurance companies and you will get very different quotes, my insurance got a little cheaper for my Model Y compared to my 13 years old C4 Grand Picasso when I changed insurance company, actually all my insurances got cheaper
I'm used to about 500 USD or less per year...
Insurance costs will come down as EV prices continue to be reduced. Also, many repair shops are afraid of the unknown. I had guys that did a sit down work refusal over working on changing out the batteries. After a 30 minute hands on training, a 2 man crew could swap out a battery in 35 minutes, and this crew did over 300 battery swaps over the next several days. Business as usual.
How much is Tesla insurance?
@@larryc1616 I’ve used Tesla insurance in MN since Feb for MOdel Y. It’s only offered in 10 or so states so far, but we’re one of them.
I have typical coverage 100/300 and $1k deductible on collision and comprehensive . They give a starting safety score of 90 which is $120/mo. I got a quote from Progressive for $115 so I decided to try Tesla. Since Feb its gone up to $163 as of last month because our safety score has decreased to 85.
The decrease is really not accurate or fair IMO. We’re both 50+ and drive very conservatively (no tickets or accidents in 15 years) but my wife keeps getting bogus forward collision warnings. I’ve gotten several as well and they really are bogus. I was just about to give up on Tesla Ins and move to Progressive but just got an update announcement via app to their safety score system (still in Beta) that increased our score from 90 to 96, since yesterday w/o even driving it!
So maybe that’ll fix it. I have a friend of same age here in MN who uses a Tesla insurance and has an $85/mo premium. But he uses FSD all the time everywhere. He’s a an Elon -nut- fan ..😃
We live on US31 in Indiana. It's slowly being upgraded. There's now only a hand full of stop lights left.
I think it’s great when products, any products, have a longer economic life. It’s about time that cars, a major investment for the average Joe, should last longer. Sustainability is necessary and imperative to protect this wonderful blue planet for future generations.
If Aptera makes it to market, it addresses the issue you talk about, cars with generational longevity yet marginal maintenance required. Few talk about this, thank you for doing it. Environmental awareness is up 👍
Semi trucks have to get replacement engines at 500,000 for commercial uses in America. The dealership makes up to 70% off service. No wonder they hate these things. People want and love them but dealers don't want to sell them. I can only imagine the staying power of a Tesla Semi or other EV commercial trucks. Less parts the better. No more super slow uphill trucks either. No more air brake bans on downhill sections either.
They may "have" to where you are. ...But they don't actually have to in other places. Over here in Aus, I watched the odometer of my previous K200 I was driving roll over, and the company didn't get rid of it until it's second time it approached a million K's, just with me driving it. The previous driver had also watched the odometer roll over, "after" the original driver who had it from brand new saw it roll the odometer over almost for a second time. ...So at least 3.5 million pretty reliable kilometres. And this is nothing unusual in the long distance, interstate road transport industry at all.
You are so right car companies have been building rubbish
Tools: Hybrid pickup, soft vehicle for road trips, small urban vehicle. Rotate driving them if you get bored...they are paid for and high reliability.
No the ice engine brands are doing everything possible to prevent EV's going mainstream. The lost to them on maintenance alone is huge;
Oil & filter changes
Differential fluid changes
Spark plugs and coils
Engine air filter
Timing belt
Exhaust muffler and pipes
Radiator flushes,
Thermostats, Water pump,
Fuel injection cleaning
Fuel filter
Catalytic converter
O2 sensors
Engine pistons connecting rods, valves
Shop Supplies!
To name a few...
One of your best videos so far. Well done
I was just about to say that! Well done Sam.😊
But the EV haters say they last less miles than ICE vehicles, and they are less reliable, and they require more maintenance, and they depreciate much faster than ICE, and the batteries need to be replaced within the first 10 years. Are you telling us that is not true? Next you are going to tell us that EVs are safer, quieter, greener, with better performance, more features, can be refueled at home, and can improve regularly with OTA updates.
Glad you were paying attention.😊
Another reason you should buy a nio over a Tesla, you will be able to take a 10 year old NIo and swap the brand new latest greatest battery into it.
@@Slaytheday388Uh, no NIOs here in Thailand. And I would never buy from a car company that also makes clothes, perfume, liquor, and other bs. Tesla is the gold standard by which all other EVs are measured.
Yes
@@Slaytheday388Will Nio be there in 10 years. I'm sure CATL or BYD will offer battery packs for Models 3 and Y in a few years, as the cars get much older.
Good to keep in mind many people buy new ICE vehicles, not because they are totally worn out, but rather for numerous other reasons, they newer much wanted technology, quieter ride, faster acceleration, better designs, or they just get tired of driving same vehicle year after year. It's a safe bet EV technology is going to continue to improve year after year, along with improved EV designs and features, and more efficient EV drive systems and longer range/faster charging battery, I think it's a safe bet we will see increasing EV sales for many decades to come, and those selling EV's won't have anything to worry about..
Bad for them good for 95% of us. Their greed gone far enough.
Electric cars are much more simple than ICE cars, so they do indeed have the potential of needing far less repairs. I dont really care about ultra high miles, as I will not drive that far before the car is outdated anyway, but lower running costs matter a lot.
Old guys (like me) used to buy new cars every few years as status symbols. Gen Z is smarter and will save fortunes.
IF they can afford it at all (new or second hand). Most of them can't.
By by Stealerships, hello EV revolution!
Finding parts for old cars like my 24 year old Infinity's windshield can be difficult. This is why people buy newer vehicles. An EV just makes sense if in the market for a newer car. Getting off the oil tit is the main one IMO.
Totally agree with your overview Sam. I'd quess 70% of car owners have not realised how well electric cars are holding up and how much cheaper they are to run. The ev industry is still in it's early adoption phase. 5 years from now there will be a huge choice of non franchised back street repair shops for ev owners which will bring the costs down even further. I also expect Elon to meet his promise of reducing his production costs down by half. Cheaper ev's as well as a continued better product will be a no brainer for car owners sooner rather than later!
@@oldbloke204 domyou want to share?
@@howardj602 My understanding is a lawsuit was won for the right to repair John Deere machines but not 100% sure. I'm talking about after warranty repairs. I know of a few garages here in the UK who are repairing Tesla's and reducing the costs compaired to the main Tesla dealers.
@@oldbloke204 would you like to share?
Aluminum does rust just like iron. However, the layer of aluminum rust protects the underlying metal whereas iron rust just falls off leaving the underlying metal exposed to the elements.
Our first TV, a British-made Pye 110 Portable (it weighed a ton but had a handle on the top) meant that the TV repair man joined the milkman, baker and butcher on the list of tradesmen making regular house calls. TVs are now both astonishingly good value, very reliable and last well beyond the point that most owners want a newer design ("At last it's broken, Dear. Now can I buy a shiny new one?") If they do go wrong they can seldom be repaired economically. I see vehicles following a similar path. Enthusiasts and tinkerers will have plenty of old ICE machines to play with for as long as they live, but most car users will be happy with an EV: quiet, smooth, cheap to run, reliable and "just works". EVs may not on their own fix the atmosphere but they will help a lot. The recycling issue however remains unclear. If cars are designed to be recycled they will be, provided recycled materials are cost-competitive with new materials. My concern with batteries is that since we are seeing ever more cheap and abundant elements used in their production there may be less incentive to recycle. On the other hand there are many uses for batteries whose energy density is no longer cutting edge, as they don't all have to be 'portable' ...
Here in tthe UK car manufacturers are obliged to provide recycling facilities for their products.
Keep in mind 99% of lead acid batteries in ICE cars are recycled. They are much cheaper than any EV batteries.
One day, I will probably buy a Tesla, I have 3 old 2000 Honda Insights that get an easy 70 mpg when it's cold outside. Over 100mpg if you are trying for mileage. Now they are putting lithium batteries in them they can get 150 to 200 mpg. IMO, the best hybrid ever made. We have some really really smart guys working on these cars.
Aluminum corrodes into bauxite. When Steel contacts Aluminum, the combination of metals form a galvanic cell that enhances corrosion!
The Tesla engineers know this, so don't worry.
Good vid
"New cars" are rapidly becoming obsolete. In 2-3 years time, robotaxis will be upon us... Only diehard drivers and petrol heads will bother to drive, and deal with the upkeep of the car. For the rest of us, especially with 50 + years of driving and dirty and oily maintenance,, the convenience, ease of use, and zero maintenance will be an irresistible attraction...
Another prediction that will go bad. Almost 100% of science predictions didn't happen, what makes you think your prediction will happen?
I know I will be getting rid of my cars once robotaxis become common. No more of payments, insurance, drivers licenses, repair bills, inspections, and years of wasted time for all the above.
If you believe that, I can get you a great deal on a landmark NYC bridge.
Robo taxis! Fatal flaw is demand bottleneck at rush hour.
@@profounddamas How many horses do you see on roads now ?
If an electric car can last forever, it will absolutely replace the gasoline car. It is a superior technology.
They won't. Maybe the battery and drivetrain will last that long but they'll still rust out from under you if you don't live in a desert. Various electronics modules will fail and be unrepairable.
@@spankeyfish
If you're building a 'lifetime' car then you're going to use aluminum rather than steel that will rust. You'll design for easy replacement of parts that might fail.
@@bobwallace9753 Steel cars do not rust now.
@@christopherj2231
Newer cars are rusting slower.
Electric vehicles are like smartphones. In a decade the technology in them become obsolete and like your cell phone they will not no longer support updates and to upgrade the car into the new technology would be cost prohibitive to most car owners.How many people still are using PlayStation 1 through 4. I have an old Sony web TV I can no longer use other than as a monitor. I believe it has Microsoft components which they will no longer support. Add to that the fact that there is not enough copper in the world to support the infrastructure upgrade to support the chargers required for the government's goals. It is said that for the next 10 years, it would take twice the amount of copper mined since the beginning of copper mining. You add to that all the homes old or to be built out there that eventually would be required to upgrade electrical systems to handle the fast chargers. Homes here in Minnesota require that play comma to meet energy savings they must have a minimum amount of insulation in the ceilings and walls and windows and all the appliances have to meet certain energy standards. Homes are very expensive as a result and imagine what it will cost to meet these future upgrades. Electric cars will just be another added cost of persons everyday life. By the way I made this comment before watching his explanation of this. If they made simple electric vehicles that got you from point a to b with all these electronics then they could be affordable. But as of now these vehicles will price most people out of the market due to the required replacement cost of the technology in them just to keep them on the road..
COUPLE MONTHS AGO, UPGRADED SILVER 2018 MODEL 3 TO WHITE 2023 MODEL 3 BECAUSE OF UPGRADES LIKE HEAT PUMP AND LFP BATTERY...
Car companies are already switching to the subscription model, that is, if you want your system software updated you have to buy a monthly service. General motors in the U.S. has dropped Apple car play and Android auto for their EVs and moved to Google and require an On Star plan to be able to use aps downloaded to the vehicle. So if you want the big screen aps you must pay.
Maybe there will be much more customers for EV in future. China, Middle East, Africa, India >5 billion ppl. Yes they are poor now but this could change. EV will be cheaper and more suitable for these regions, like they could charge with Solar much better and don´t need special repair shops, knowlege of supply chain for complex gas cars repair.
There is a three wheel, two seater solar car called Aptera in pre-production stage. They also give (right to repair) to potential buyers. I ordered one but not holding my breath as they are very slow to start production.
1:58 Because car engines are made of aluminum and must be replaced after 300,000 km due to friction with the piston And the combustion process
But if the engine is made of stainless steel it will last forever but is heavier and more expensive.
Friction with the pistton? No need for replacement. Just get a rebore.
My 2020 Model Y has 240,000 miles on it. My battery is at about 85% original range. I have never replaced the brakes on a Tesla car and still don't need to. I looked into taking advantage of the 0.99% interest rate on a new Model Y, just for a refresh. However, no one wants a Model Y with 240,000 miles. Even Tesla would only give me $12,000 on trade in. So, I'm heading to 500,000 miles. I'll let you know how that goes ;)
I often change ICE cars at the 10 year mark or 100K miles before it needs major maintenance. Even if you’re diligent to replace high cost items, old ICE cars aren’t worth the trouble and expense. Although I’m skeptical about keeping an EV for a million miles, 200K miles would be a good goal.
Exactly car companies using business models that a bit more like technology companies' business models.
The Volvo was beat by one other EV, though its initial launch on a Falcon Heavy had some emissions, and the rest of its distance has been done by coasting.
Brigs an strat engines are a good example,ppl complained about the guts piston,rod wearing out too soon so they fixed that but the other stuff goes first /faster,,,the beat goes on. Laa de da de dee
Avoiding technology obsolescence is not the main threat. The main threat is that most people will decide they no longer need a car with MaaS becoming a realistic and practical option. If an autonomous car is going to take me the last mile for $99 per month, then why would I bother driving a brand new car out of the showroom and instantly lose 10%? This is why being first to market and having a massive moat is actually more important than any other industry. When public transport and private transport merges, the Tesla needs to be the standard through sheer numbers. Not enough people will care if it has superficial features like auto-wipers - do you worry about that when you catch the train? What they will care about is whether my existing Tesla can make me money or how reliable is that Uber Tesla when it comes to picking me up every morning at 7am.
It's called "planned obsolescence." My friend's dad still had his razor given to him during WWII that wouldn't dull. Yet almost all razors today need replacing. There is no future profit in a product that you only sell once. This holds true for automobiles where the reason that they don't last was known and where the quote above comes from. American cars were getting so good that they started to last a very long time. Auto execs discovered that if they made the cars purposely didn't last that they would have repeat sales. The quality of Americans dropped in the 1960s and 70s. The only problem was that the Japanese didn't get the memo. Side by side the Japanese cars were much more solidly built with welds while American cars were made of thin metal and bolted together, and they lasted much longer. During the oil crisis in the US Japan gobbled up market share taking the top sales spot with the Toyota, Corolla. As the oil crisis subsided the quality of Japanese cars kept their customers by providing larger less efficient cars of quality like the Toyota, Camry, which in the 1980s was the best selling car in the US.
Right! If I could purchase a new battery pack at a reasonable price my 2023 Nissan Leaf would last at least forty years as has my 1976 Cadillac.
You can either get refurbishment where only tthe duff cells are replaced or a complete batery from a totaled newer model. The Nissan Leaf is designed with battery repairability and replacement in mind, unlike many others.
@@rogerphelps9939 thanks
Sticking with classic VWs.
There are more things that wear out apart from the drive train.
As a car gets older the paint fails, the interior wears out, all parts that are touched wear out, plastic gets brittle and breaks, headlights fog up. Eventually it is not worth repairing.
How much would it cost to change the carpet and redo all the seats? Even if the car is still running will anyone spend money on a 20yo car to replace the seats and steering wheel?
Maybe not.
Yeah but nobody junks a car with worn out seat covers. It just gets sold to the next poorer person.
Or you just keep using it
The other advantage of EV is that it has room to grow, i.e. battery technology advancement has a higher ceiling limit. A 1000 mile per charge can be achieved in the near near future. On the other hand, ICE can only go so much. You can't extract any more power from an already FULLY OPTIMIZED combustion engine unless a new ICE technology can compete with battery tech - soon.
In the Northeast USA, we are lucky to get a car to go ten to 12 winters without the body rusting out. When the structural parts are gone, it isn't worth trying to fix.
Well said.
Head's up Sam! In Canada no car runs a half million miles. None ever will - not now that Saturn is long-gone. Cars rust.
Saturn built with plastic composite body panels. If you can find one - they're all 15+ years old now - they still look brand new.
Tesla should build with composite panels. Cheaper to make; cheaper to repair (you just replace a damaged section - for cheap); and much, much lighter. Stronger: y9u hang them on a proper 3d space frame.
Arrival was going to build EV vans with composite panels. It's toast. But not because the design was flawed.
Tesla should build this way. Then the body would last as long as the battery.
And the cars could shed a LOT of weight.
Composites are probably not so crash resistance though.
There is a lot of lively debate about Al, Fe-alloys and carbon fiber composites at the moment. Seems like the jury is still out in respect of longevity and resilience.
@@jimparr01UtubeOh trust me, they can use composite materials that would be stronger than metals used now. It's all possible.
Does Canada salt the roads like the UK? In the UK ICE cars used to have visible rust as they came off the production line.
@@G_C340 Most places that get heavy snowfall use salt or salt derivatives. In western U.S. many municipalities use sand instead of salt. I live on the east coast and we use salt here...but I have gotten under carriage spray protection done to most of my cars and that has protected them very well against rusting.
@@GSP-76 More expensive.
II have a Honda insight 2000 hybrid. Aluminum frame and the first car with a battery pack in North America. It was a not a lithium pack but nickel cadmium. Now there is a community modification to install a lithium battery pack and a 40% power hack.
That will happen to current EV with future power sources
In my opinion the bits that determine how long a car will last are not engines, transmissions or other big ticket items. It is the synthetic or rubbery bits. Hoses, seals, belts, grommets, washers etc. EV's too will have to deal with this problem as they age, though to a much lesser extent. In isolation a "perishable" failure though is usually just a nuisance but there are so many of these bits that eventually the car becomes so unreliable that we just get rid of it.
I like Tony Seba's predictions so much I will make one of my own:
Aftermarket battery packs will become DIRT CHEAP within TEN years (maybe within FIVE).
You can ALREADY get a replacement pack for a Nissan Leaf - they are just NOT cheap (yet). When cheap Sodium Ion cells hit the market (little tiny trickle so far) anyone with a decent amount of knowledge will be able to make their own pack.
Why? Because the HARD part is the battery cells - the rest of it is (relatively) simple.
Companies like Ford, Tesla, John Deere, BYD, etc will try to "wall off" their batteries with proprietary software and will likely go to HUGE lengths to make "reverse engineering" the battery difficult (because ..."safety", the fallback they use - like Apple with cables - when they can't stop honest people any other way).
Having the batteries is fine if you you are trained to work on 600 too 800V dc systems without making yourself crispy. I have worked in electronics for 49 years and I would be very wary.
@@stevewilliams430 You are correct, and I probably understated how important that is.
The average plant maintenance millwright or electrician (with a ticket) is trained to work with that kind of voltage. Maybe it's just that I know a bunch of people like that, who would be pretty much able to work around DC high voltage because they already do.
I also think the "average" millwright or electrician is probably a lot smarter than the "average" person, but that's just an opinion.
If you bought a EV with 200k miles for about 6k and your future expenses are maybe 10k EVs are a no brainer. Fuel is stable and cheap and performance is no big deal. Hoping my LFP model 3 could last that long or longer
People don’t want the same car forever. My ice car is at 390k miles. I look at it like a tool. Most people don’t.
Cars often have multiple owners over their life. Cars that last longer are still bad for traditional auto manufacturers.
I have a 29 year-old Honda that I'm hoping to drive till I die.
People change their cars because they start having a lot of problems with high mileage.
17 year-old suv , diesel, under 100k miles, with out dpf, waiting for EV-suv real open road range of at list 400+ miles (to only charge at home), for 40-45k$
If you buy a used car with 200,000 km in Sweden, you normally are the fourth or fifth driving owner. Every day there are some new people who want some kind of affordable car.
The problem with old ICE cars is if you repair it for 2,000 euro, you don't know when the next repair of 2-3,000 euro comes. There are so many parts/"modules" that can fail, and most of the expensive repairs are related to the engine and transmission.
In fact this is a no brainer. As an average.
‘Several battery and motor replacements’ to achieve the milestone. How much did that cost?
Nothing. Read up on it. He even had the lifetime free charging that was included at the time.
Like Seba said about Solar + Batteries, will soon be Marginal Ner Zero. I'll be the same with EVs.
Only in places where the sun shines a lot all year. Here in the UK it is wind for the rest of the time and domestic wind is not viable.
Buy a zero maintenance Tesla Mod3, add your own solar panel power charging, Mix. Voila; free transportation for life.
Truly amazing times,,never thought I'd see it
Cannot wait for more EV trucks!!!
Most of the trucks I’ve owned I would be happy with for decades.
That's an improvement, but what I would like to know is how many years of "normal usage" can that battery last? 4 years? 6 years? 10 years? 20 years?
Another big improvement would be a system that would make replacing a battery so simple that the owner could do it by himself without going to the car workshop. I mean in those sci-fi movies you see the users of a small space ship changing the power modules by themselves 😏 Why can't EV owners do it? Could it be because we are in the pre-historic era of EVs?
Always my “go to” analysis… I’ve done 80,000 miles in 25 months and rattly hub caps aside been totally trouble free.
Check your wheel nuts that rattle could be them being loose.
Unbelievable😮
feeling a sense of deja vue .... subscription plan incoming...
Once you buy a Tesla, look at all the things you have to subscribe to. Tesla can still nickel and dime you as long as you own the car.
That is what happened with an appliance company that made the appliances so reliable no parts were needed and the business lost so much money.
Planned obsolescence is a business strategy to limit the longevity of designed parts and businesses do that so parts are needed.
Legacy Automotive OEMs intentionally reduced the lifespan of ICE vehicles circa 1960-1980 to make more recurring sales. My aunt’s Mercedes-Benz 220d ran fine for about 20 years. 1950s American cars are still being maintained and operated in Cuba. The planned obsolescence of automobiles is similar to the historical planned obsolescence of light bulbs by colluding manufacturers.
As an older man I remember well the term and mantra, “planned obsolescence” used by the automobile industry.