What Happened to Electric Vehicle Sales?
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- Опубликовано: 4 апр 2024
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Sales growth of electric vehicles has slowed dramatically this year. Tesla delivered 20% fewer cars in the first quarter of 2024 than in the prior quarter, and BYD who was previously the world’s biggest EV maker saw sales decline more than 40% over the same period.
BYD’s EV sales were still up 13% when compared to the same quarter a year earlier, while Tesla’s sales were down 9%. Both companies have been slashing prices to stimulate demand.
While EV sales overall are still rising, they are rising at a slower rate than before. On top of that, the space has become more competitive as legacy automakers have introduced new EVs, and Chinese manufacturers have ramped up exports, overtaking Japan as the world's biggest vehicle exporter last year.
Apple, who spent a decade and ten billion dollars on research, decided in February to end their efforts to build an electric car. The Apple car would have likely cost over $100 thousand dollars and would have had lower profit margins than their core consumer electronics business. Apple’s stock price rose on the announcement that they were abandoning their EV project.
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Beuce 2 thungs theh srnt nobelty anymorw
And all of them 20%more expsive
im sure brialliant is great, but it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out if your buying a porch taycan of any kind, then you are beyond help
To buy an EV it has to be linked to your bank account. Think about that.
California and other such jurisdictions are making a mistake in mandating EVs. What they should be doing, instead, is mandating renewable energy in all forms. So, diesel and gasoline will have to be from renewable sources on a given timeframe - 25% by such a date, 50% by some other date, etc. That means all vehicles in the state or country will eliminate most greenhouse gases over time.
Now, it may mean that on such a scheme, it will be cheaper for vehicle owners (whether consumers or businesses) to switch to electric power. If so, terrific. If not, well, all those ICE vehicles will also be green, however old they are.
Meanwhile, mandating a phased switch to renewable means that those who create biodiesel and biogasoline have certainty of demand, so it's worth making those investments.
There are some forms of transportation for which electric is probably never going to be realistic, such as air transport. Having jet fuel that's from renewable sources is essential if you're going to make that industry remotely green.
😊😅😊
We all know that an Apple EV would have required a proprietary adapter.
and would have stopped working in 8 years when they stopped supporting it.
@@ribbonsofnight And slows down when the new one comes out to "preserve battery life"
And women would only date men who drove an Apple EV.
😂😂😂
@@DistrustHumanz wow, who hurt you?
California demanding that everyone go out and get an EV a week before they told everyone to stop charging their EVs pretty much sums up my concerns.
That happened 3 years ago. And since then there was no blackouts thanks to grid storage.
@@user-221i EVs still make no sense.
@@bunsw2070 Explain?
I hate the inconsistent and flaky subsidies. If I could predict just how much the running costs would be in 5, 10, 15 years I would have no issue with getting an EV. That and the lack of non-scammy public chargers put me off 100%.
@@bunsw2070Well that goes vastly against the common perception
The problem is most new EVs are luxury cars, SUVs or both. Who gives a damn if an EV maker slashes the cost of their new car from $60,000 to $50,000 when most car buyers can't afford that EV at either price?
I 100 percent agree with this. You can't get mass adoption with $50k cars. The used market for ev cars aren't great either and they haven't proved themselves to be long term (10-15+ years) reliable cars so there's a lot of risk with owning one.
They’re only $50K - $60K because your politicians force it to be that way with tariffs on Chinese ev imports. You could have a superior EV with 600+ mile range for $30-35K
@@Wavetheory85 sorry, I don't want a BYD that explodes every other day even for 20k.
@@Wavetheory8530-35k is still way too much. As long as there are no (reasonable) options around 15k, EVs have no chance at replacing normal cars.
The only way anyone is going to see mass adoption of EVs is if they're cheaper to buy and maintain than traditional vehicles, and if the infrastructure required to charge them is widely and readily available.
People aren’t interested in buying something less useful than the thing it is supposed to replace.
People have bought the recent editions of iPhones haven’t they!😂
Exactly right, and that’s the biggest roadblock to getting a sale
People who are into EV's arent the type who think logically. If they did, they wouldnt be buying an adult version of Powerwheels.
I disagree with that, look at a lot of new SUV's and trucks
Countries with competent governments have charging figured out.
People: *barely have enough money for rent and groceries*
Economists: "Hey, why the slow down in buying a new car!?"
Agree with you. Lot of people I know are in survival mode, including myself!
Me too! Can't even afford to take the Bus every day. 😞
As an economist, it's not about price.
It's about utility.
And with today's charging network compared to established gas stations, it's just a hassle/risk.
As in:
It's relatively easy to calculate how long you'd need to drive an EV to profit from lower prices (electricity usually being way cheaper than gas, per mile driven).
And since many cars are bought with a loan, economically rational people might still favor an EV over an ICE.
It's just a matter of time until you start paying less instead of more, depending on how much you drive and how wide the price gap is between electricity and gasoline.
So cost is not the real problem.
Depreciation is a concern, but can be legislated away by making the battery health easily accessible.
The real problem is charging infrastructure.
Especially since the grid underlying all of that has to be updated to cope with the increased demand.
Until governments get that done, it's hard to build sufficient (fast charge) terminals.
(and there's also the issue of slow-charging it at night for work traffic versus fast charging for other use cases - this needs to be an option users can select in their own cars, to minimize grid loads while maintaining battery life and utility)
As long as you have to plan your EV route in order to access load points (without long waiting lines), but can just do your own thing wherever whenever if you drive an ICE, very few (practical rather than ideological) people will buy an EV...
But are new non-ev cars stalling as much as EV? there is a distinct slowdown in EV...
to be fair, literally everything "has a lower profit margin than Apple consumer electronics"
😂 spot on!
Yeah. Somehow a majority of the population has apple products, and yet their profit margins are something you see in luxury products
@@Random_dud31They are luxury products. Apple stores are laid out like diamond jewelers' stores. Not to say that they are necessarily superior or more expensive products.
@@Random_dud31 “you get what you pay for” is as old as commerce. Apple makes excellent products.
@@esterhudson5104Last year was the first time I spent more on a phone (iPhone 14 pro x) than I have for a computer. I’ve owned various refurb and “budget” iPhones, iPads, and Macs. My first Mac was purchased in 1991 at the dawn of desktop video (for that purpose).
What made me go for the flagship model was the financing.
The fact that there is no way of knowing the state of the battery of a used EV is almost a showstopper.
There is a way. There are companies offering certified tests (like Aviloo here in Austria/Germany). With used EVs getting harder and harder to sell on, I expect sellers will start using these certified tests as a USP to shift their vehicle. They cost around 100 bucks but the seller needs to take the initiative because the test takes several days. The test box is plugged into the OBDII connector and measures a bunch of parameters while the vehicle is driven and (crucially) charged for a few days so it's not some quick test a buyer can have done just before buying a vehicle. The box has its own sim card and sends the data back to the company itself. I'd be very hesitant buying a used EV (which is on the horizon for us) without this sort of test result being provided. The risk of buying a lemon battery is too high. The vast majority of used EV batteries are probably in very good shape but if you happen to be the unfortunate one who buys that battery which has been charged exclusively on rapid chargers up to 100% in cold temperatures or whatever then you are screwed.
Yep, you gotta be crazy to buy a 2nd hand one.
Infact you gotta be crazy to buy a new one, if you do want one lease it because you can just hand it back when the batteries fails and cost 40k to replace!
@murphaph good go do it. I'll be normal and get a reliable gas car.
You can test the current capacity by fully discharging, then charging it
I thought most manucafturers do show this somewhere on the car screen, and that there are mechanic shops that do show that. Carwow made a video recently about buying an used nissan leaf, and the state of battery was very easy to find there, despite it being one of the earlier electric cars
The crazy thing is subsidies are largely going to people who are pretty well off to buy mostly luxury EV's , on top of that a large proportion are being bought by companies for the tax breaks - when those cars hit the used market there are often no takers.
My sister just drove in a rented EV from Paris to us in Tyrol, Austria. The charging network is an unnecessarily complicated clusterfuck of apps and standards. It's put all of us off of getting an EV
Well most people who own EVs charge them at home but yes the charging needs to be made easier I’ve ran into the same issue as soon as I try to charge somewhere that’s not at home or a Tesla charging point
ah yes the ""smart"" economy
Yeah, the charging network here is split up between dozens of different providers, with zero standards regarding how you can actually pay.
If we have to use public chargers for longer travels, we plan in advance where we have working superchargers (working with the app we use to pay, it combines several providers in a single app). But if you're not aware of that you're gonna have a bad time, and maybe have to call the ÖAMTC because you cant charge your empty battery despite standing directly in front of a supercharger
Thank you for using my favorite word: clusterfuck
Perhaps rail travel would have been better for her? Just sayin' . . .
Expensive to buy
Expensive to repair
Expensive to insure
Rapid depreciation
Range anxiety
Lack of qualified mechanics
Long wait times for parts
Poor charging infrastructure
Need to spend a lot of money to get fast charging set up at home. Very few options if you rent or live in an apartment.
I'll pass
you forgot... spontaneous combustion.
you forgot: actually takes GASOLINE to create power, so NOT really green.
Still the future.
As an EV owner I’ve no clue what you’re talking about. Lease is ending soon after 5 years and being an absolute bargain, while offering great driving capabilities. The 200 km range is limited but hasn’t been an issue for our family of 5.
"range anxity" bruh tesla model 3 perf has same range as my 1999 Mercedes with full tank :D so what the are you worring, and most people dont live 3rd world contrys like a-Murica so chargin infrastructure isnt a issue. But you are right about thouse other things :D
You and Brian from Clearvalue taxes are literally the only 2 people I watch , I remember when people would call you boring when you were at 30k subs , now your literally catching half a million views in less then a week, proud to see you grow Patrick thank you for the direct and no BS straight forward information.
a rental car clerk advised me against renting an electric car when me and my family went to Orlando Florida las year. He said if you take an electric, you won't enjoy your vacation. Trust me, go with the regular car, he said.
lol clearly he had no idea what he was talking about.
@@3184PatrickThat depends doesn't it?
If the person renting had no prior EV experience then the advice isn't unfair
Great advice. If you rent an electric while on vacation, you spend your time fretting over charging points instead of enjoying the trip.
Orlando actually has a lot of superchargers. Many at vacation stops, and major shopping locations. So it's pretty easy to charge here.
@@stuartburns8657 then he shouldn't say that then should he.
I drove Monaco to Paris last summer. 100% of the chargers were either broken or required some crazy app to make work. Most just had red Xs on them and didn’t work.
😂
I spent 4 hours waiting to charge at a station in Southern California because of broken chargers
@@wvu2123 sounds awesome. Where can I buy an EV?😂
Do you remember what brand were the chargers that were broken and not working?
@@TheRedcroatian yes I took videos. One of the brands was Spark
Hmmmm, a basic ICE vehicle costs ~$20k. A basic EV costs ~$30k. You're ridiculous if you think $10k is nothing to the average person
Adding 50% onto costs is massive for anyone not Scrooge McDuck rich or an idiot.
The EV will be a lot cheaper to run and thus a lot cheaper during the life of the car.
@@Nikla90 what is the life of the car and tis doesn't allow for any crashes.
I don't budget for crashes either but some people probably do.
@@ribbonsofnight That's why you have insurance. And at least where I live the insurance cost for Model 3 is comparable to similar ICE car.
Most bad experiences from EV's for people come from buying shitty EV's just because of the brand or cheap price.
@@Nikla90maybe if you change cars frequently sure. But if you’re poor, or just frugal, and drive older cars you have to factor in the inevitable battery pack replacement, since the average age of cars in the US is 13 years and a battery will most likely not last that long.
Case in point: my wife has a friend that’s a single mom that scrapes by. She bought a used 9 year old Prius. 4 months later, battery pack is dead and has to be replaced. Cost: more than she paid for the car.
I'm 65 and work from home. The only driving I do all week is a 3 mile round trip to the supermarket. It is not worth spending 50,000 plus on an EV for my weekly mileage. In the UK in 2035 16.9 million people will be retired. 25-30% of the adult population will be retired. Yet the government wants them to own EVs when they do little more than the weekly shopping trip. To me it does not make sense.
It makes sensed when you realize that they don't want you to have a car...at all
i bought my used Hyundai EV for $20k. lots of options now for people who don't want to spend $50k. and if your on a fixed income(retired) that EV will cost you a couple dollars a week while the gas car will cost you hundreds if you average out fuel and Maintenace, repairs etc
Buying/keeping a used ICE is more environmentally friendly than buying a new EV anyways. The government should be encouraging retirees to keep what they have or buy something already made.
@@RadioStaring that is actually false. or at least needs to be factored by miles driven etc. a new gas car averages 4.6 tons of co2 per year. from what i can find an average EV uses 89 tons to build. which would be 19 years to break even. however the used car pollutes much more as it gets older and then you take people who dont replace their cats or DPF in exhaust and it could be many less years. Add to that if your talking about an older car its even worse. The gas car might make 200,000km before it needs a new engine while the EV battery/motor will go 500k-1 million miles. over the life a new EV will absolutely be cleaner then a used gas powered car and massively cleaner then a new one.
Temperature extremes would be a huge problem where I live. Temps are between -35C and 30-40C where I live. The battery life would be shot so quickly. In Chicago which is pretty close to where I live, tons of cars were getting stranded because the batteries and chargers couldn’t handle the cold.
Not really, tens of thousthousands of EVs (if not more) in Norway show otherwise. What happened recently in Chicago and other such places comes down to mostly poor consumer education and bad planning (e.g parking over night with ten percent or less while knowing the temperatures are dropping) on the drivers side. There’s a good video by “out of spec” RUclips channel on the subject. 30C-40C is not that high for modern EVs, for example some of Teslas batteries need to heat up to around 40C for optimal charging. High temps were a problem on older EVs which didn’t have good battery cooling and heating.
I have only one word for you……. Norway.
@@inteliov So @nfowerli is lying? I also live in a place where temps drop to -30C for several weeks at a time. The number of EV's I see on my commute drops as fast as the temperature lol. Turns out, a lot of EV owners have a gasser car as a backup. Politicians are pushing this tech a lot faster than our society can adapt to it. It simply doesn't meet the expectations.
@@anonymoussee8960 who said he is lying?! I said that the reason some people get stuck in the extreme cold with EVs is no different than the reason some people get stuck in petrol or disel cars: user error and negligence. Combustion engine cars aren’t that great in the extreme cold either and plenty of people get stuck, only in that case it usually happens before leaving the driveway. The fact of the matter is that one of the coldest countries also has the highest numbers of EVs (Norway) and they are doing fine. I have no issue with my EV even in very cold temps. If anything, I’m much more comfortable to get into my preheated, windshield defrosted car and start driving straight away every morning while my neighbors are unplugging their heaters and defrosting the windows and waiting for the engine to warm up while breathing in exhaust fumes.
@@inteliovSo it us user error....right.. Norway is a small geographic area. I drive 220 miles round trip just to shop. EV at 25 below F won't cut it.
The lack of home owners is limiting EV sales
There's several billion home owners
Yeah that’s definitely a factor in the US. All the apartments I’ve lived in in Northern California don’t have charging stations on site, and even in the state capital it can be hard to find (public) charging stations. And Sacramento, CA is technically considered a metro area (though not nearly as dense or popular as LA/SoCal).
Having EV cars definitely skews in favor of homeowners in this country. If you can’t charge at home, you’re most likely SOL.
@@pigsnoutman you do understand having a home in San Francisco and a home in Mali is different, also 99.99% areas don't have charging infrastructure.
There are so many issues with EV’s - lack of charging infrastructure, high insurance costs, high electricity costs, terrible resale value, and it goes on. I love my performance ICE cars with their brilliant mechanical soul, and have no desire to switch.
condos and apartments in LA have chargers installed now, at least the modern ones
i live in germany and our companies have made great cars, but since a decade or so, quality has been going down rapidly.
Not because of lack of skill, but because of the fact that the whole automobile industry builds cars on a timer - they are made to break down by design. obviously to avoid market saturation and keep the business model alive - they even say they target "the aftermarket" more than sales, which means they make their money by replacing parts that were made to break down.
This design philosophy is built in the EVs too and that is what makes them so expensive. It is also practically the exact opposite of what is being claimed about environmental aspects.
The best thing for the environment would be to buy cheap old cars, actually repair them and drive them until they are dead - Instead we are shipping them to Africa and let children scavenge the metals.
The hypocrisy of western Elites is on par with their disconnection to reality.
We could make domestic electric cars without the need to import critical metals from Africa.
We'd just have to switch to Sodium-Ion batteries. Sacrificing some range. And we'd just have to use simpler electronics in the car.
So you'd be back to using a radio/cd player instead of a touch screen. And we'd have to drop the number of smart sensors in the car.
There is a completely ethical way to make domestic electric vehicles. And if you are dead set on using old cars till they rust. In America, we have a lot of mechanics that can turn old cars into EV's.
we actually do this old car thing in Tasmania and we still get this Russian FUD that we are "elites" for being cheap
You are so right. If we built cars to last 25 years or more, as Toyota and Mercedes did at one time, then we would cause less pollution than buying 3 or 4 EVs.
Reduce, reuse, recycle. This is how it goes. Many people living in cities don't really need to drive everywhere. It's safer and healthier for everyone involved when there's less those huge machines on the roads close to squishy and fragile humans. Using public transport and cycling should be encouraged first, not buying a new EV
@@robertkeaney9905 But what's the point? It all comes from fossil fuels anyway.
There are rare exceptions when EVs might make sense for specific circumstances, for everything else ICE is still far superior.
OMG, a presenter who uses "less" and "fewer" correctly. I'll subscribe!
No native study it. Less for uncountable and few for countable
If only he didn't speak in AI voice with constant staring and the same facial expression the entire video. I don't want to be mean but the intonational pitch every single sentence is so annoying I can't focus on what he's saying.
I always wonder if spotting grammatical errors makes you more intelligent, I have a strange feeling it doesn't, seems a fairly easy thing to do
Hi Patrick. I'm basically an older "car" guy. And I know ICE cars, work on mine, modify them to be more suitable. So my (every 6 or 8 year) car purchase is a 10 year old car with 125,000 to 150,000 miles on it. That used car will normally give me another 200,000 miles of driving with fairly minimal maintenance, and I drive around 30,000 a year.
S0 if I look to buy a 10 year old EV, how many more miles will I get from it with fairly minimal maintenance? Remember, most of the maintenance is work I do myself. EV's don't work for people like me.
Charging at home. Must be nice for all those folks who don't live in an apartment complex.
??? I have charging station on "apartment complex" and its not that more expencive to install... Just move to europe (Finland) away from thouse 3rd world contrys like MUCRIA
It's not necessary, but it's nice to have
@@rikuzonex omg the ignorance...
@@rikuzonex must be fuckin nice
@@rikuzonex what a dumb statement
Looking back on it, it's not too shocking that rental EVs didn't work. When you go to a strange place, you won't know where the charging stations are, your hotel may not have chargers, and obviously you won't have a access to a home charging system. There's too many unknowns to be comfortable with. EVs really only work if you have a routine that includes charging stations, or you don't have to drive that much.
Thats true for now
Combine LONG charging times often in sketchy locations with out-of-control crime & carjacking and, well there you go. 😖
None of that should be an issue with Teslas, though.
Quite the most remarkably under-researched and misconceived major decision that any CEO has made (obviously apart from those inflicted on Boeing, of course!) in reference history was Hertz buying / ordering was it 60,000 Teslas in the US. Utter madness.
LOL, i never seen a hotel in my country without many chargers. You are a disgrace here if you are a hotel owner without chargers. :) That's how it is here. And at my work 20+ 11kW chargers and 2 fast chargers at my company. There are chargers on EVERY DAMN highway. Yeah it differs per country. But this should be the norm in every country soon.
Hertz did it to themselves. I reserved an EV with Hertz for a trip, planned out my trip with hotels with charging stations, and when I got to the rental cars, none of them were charged! They were all just sitting there with 25% battery and not plugged in. I changed my rental immediately and the people working there didn't seem surprised at all.
They are also just terrible rental cars. I rented a Tesla once and spent hours upon hours at public chargers charging the stupid thing. And paid more in charging fees than I would have in gas. The best use case is to use it for commuting to work and then charging it at home every night - which doesn't usually apply to a rental car. They are charging 42c per kwh now at public chargers - and you have to waste your life driving there and sitting there while it charges.
@@bubba99009What you on about, it takes like 15/20 mins max to 60/70% to a Tesla.. doing that every 3 hours is hardly wasting your life.
The car does the planning to so not even a hassle there.
Public charging is too expensive though
The only reason why people buy them in Europe is because EV's do not pay for road taxes and my government the Netherlands just stacks $100,000 environment tax on a ford mustang or $35,000 environment tax on a toyota GR86 and add 21% VAT in addition lol.
Even though EVs aren't better for the environment. The government's attitude towards it all stinks.
@@alkaholic4848 Everyone knows a phone or laptop begins to suck after 2 years, in my country they said we need 100 km of wiring to increase our electricity network, windmills kill scores of animals like bats and kobalt / lithium mines are a huge disasters and so is the water pollution for making all these processors. But these people man they are stalinists communists, they discredit, cancel, sack every scientist that tries to review it the scientific way, academics are just scared to lose everything if they tell the truth in a review.
I think the only country that is worse is Canada but I am not sure, Europe is like the Soviet Union, we can choose our countries politicians but they cant do anything because those laws are set by the EU I really begin to understand why revolutions occurred in France and Russia, you cant get rid of these people, even if you vote them out of office others pick up the mantle or they use slick legal procedures.
I'm guessing the Netherlands EV charging infrastructure must be excellent.
@@linusspacehead It is we have a small non montanus country with an excellent network, however, this network can not transport that power we need roughly 100.000 kilometers of new wiring which takes roughly 10 years to install but we do not have many blue collar workers.
In short we overload the network and have to decharge the net, turn off solar panels or turn them off when it is too sunny and pay to decharge. Most of those EV klimate crusaders charge their EV's at night :)
Currently we cant even connect new houses to the net at certain places, cancelled scientist and senior engineers already said this was going to happen 10 years ago because it is simple math, which is a non existing skill in the childbrains of most leftist voters (roughly 1/3 here) who simply label this problem as an acuse of the evil car industry which does not want to sell and make money selling EV's.
@@alkaholic4848 they are though and this is well established. Over the lifetime of a car an EV emits around 50% less green house gasses than a combustion engine car. You're just making shit up.
I don't blame Hertz customers..... getting EV from them is 3x the price of getting EV from another service, and they require the car to be fully charged upon return. I had to sit for an hour on a parking lot nearby just to get EV back to 100% otherwise I'd get a steep fine! Zero understanding of their customers, when I get EV from competition locally I return an empty battery and cover minimal charge rate. - I rent EVs regularly.
Hertz gave me an EV unannounced that only had 30 kms in charge left on it. I returned it immediately.
@@KaliYugaSauce and you did the right thing! Nether you should get an ICE car with empty tank nether. Hertz is terrible for renting electric's, they want you to return 100% charge battery, so you have to find a station close by and sit pushing 80%->100% which is the longest part. My local car sharing/rentals companies let you return empty electric without fines or fees, just regular slow charge rate you'd pay elsewhere, and app tells me how much charge a car I'm choosing have right now, so I can pick another one if it does not have the range I need.
13:26 I’m staying away from EV cars after watching a video on Setpentza RUclips channel showing multiple cases of BYD electric cars are catching fire right on the road. I’m worried that the US market is using their batteries. Chinese regime does it best to hide any truth about the real state of affairs in totalitarian communist China, but this Australian guy (who lived in China for 17 years before fleeing) from Serpentza is good at spilling the beans. Recommend
Whoever told you that the ev needs to be charged to 100% is an actual moron. You rarely charge past 80% unless you really need the extra range.
@@azxsys God damn I didn't think hertz would be that retarded
Because states subsidies dried up (i.e. Germany), where most EVs were bought as company cars with favourable tax regimes
As a Norwegian that has owned 3 ev's, and a hybrid and my current car is an ev. I think what you are saying makes a lot of sense. Our nabouring countries are adopting ev's at a faster pace now, so it's easier to drive long distances, but the charging issue is what everyone finds frustrating. Another point about the charging is lack of roadsigns and you have to have several apps, instead of bein able to pay by card or cash. I've been in a situation with low battery on my phone and poor cell service and trying to download yet another charging app in the rain, it gets your blood boiling..
There are also positives worth mentioning, especially if you live by a big freeway or in a town center, the airpolution has gone down considereably in the last years, it's noticable and that's a big pluss in my book. Noise levels have also dropped.
The most unbiased, balanced, summing up of the EV scene that I have watched to date.
I think it’s very problematic that so many bans on ICE cars includes plug-in hybrids. While they do burn fossil fuels, getting people to use an electric drive for something like 60mi or so would encompass a high proportion of the trips people take
Hybrids are also a balm for other concerns. I live in Nevada and have to drive long distance for work semi-regularly. My strongest concern is actually the effects of climate on the battery, so anything that relies slightly less on the battery (i.e. hybrid cars) is just a lot more of a possibility. Not to mention, I can't afford a new car of any kind at this point, much less the most expensive kind
@@stuffinsthegreat Your use case is worth considering, but depending on the distance you travel, neither the plug-in hybrid nor the electric car will be particularly well suited to reduce the carbon footprint of your commute. What would really reduce your commute is if your city built more compactly and with a greater focus on public transport, or allowed your neighborhood to build up a more mixed use community.
How often do you drive for 4 hours straight? I can drive about 450km without a charge; wait 20 min then drive another 400 km... ohh my car is also always full with "fuel" every morning, so the amount of time spent idling at gasstation (ie chargestation) in a month is negligible.
@@FRIPPE_THE_GREAT People don't buy cars based on what realistically they will use them for. People buy cars based on what they imagine they'll use them for.
If they want to imagine themselves going on a road trip, the idea of getting stranded far away from a charging station is much scarier to people than getting stranded away from a gas station. On top of that there are enough people in the Anglosphere who live 2 hours of driving away from a destination they think they will travel to that they will avoid anything that gives them range anxiety at the first sight of traffic.
That could have a marked effect on adoption.
That's not to mention how that 450km is only for the first year or so of ownership, the tires only last for 15,000-25,000 km as opposed to 60,000 - 120,000 km for ICE cars, and battery fires have been a big topic of worry. I personally don't think these things would drive me away from getting an electric car, but they are definitely having an effect on the market.
@seeranos well the tires can take more wear and tear than in a normal car, but I think it depends on how you drive it. To me, the only valid principal argument against EV is the price; but that is offset if you look at the lifecyclecost (asuming you can charge at home).
I just rented a car for 10 days for a trip around France. They gave me a plug in hybrid obviously. It arrived already empty battery from the start and was impossible to charge anywhere (including hotels except one castle in Loire valley) without downloading and subscribing an incredible amount of complicated apps and putting your credit card in all of them… pointless to say battery remained empty almost all travel and I end up with an underpowered engine that consumed more that a proper one because always under stress… I don’t understand why rent a car give these hybrids when is clear that nobody (even them) will recharge them on holiday abroad and even less why you cannot have a charging network where you simply insert credit card and pay… at the petrol station they are not asking to download an app to fill the pump😂
Hybrids good.
Plug-in hybrid not.
One has the option to charge from solar the other doesn’t. Strange comment
All the car charging stations are losing money. They're trying to get some back by selling your data. It might make more financial sense not to charge any cars at the car charging stations.
Doubt very many people will ever buy a second EV.
Maybe the shift should have been more hybrid focused rather than straight to full electric.
I had a Mercedes Benz EV for a couple of weeks. Great car but it was a pain to charge it up quickly. Also a lot of buyers would not know how much the in car accessories (like heat, Air Con, defroster, radio) use up the battery. If I drove 30 minutes over whatever miles 60% of the battery goes to driving while 20% went to car accessories. I did not like that ratio at all.
Needless to say but you don’t have the Mercedes EV anymore?
I appreciate your somewhat parenthetical comment about "all the screens on their dashboard". There is no way I would ever own a car with controls that don't offer some kind of haptic feedback. Touch screens just offer too much opportunity for confusion and a distraction from what the driver should be paying attention to.
I guess you’re the few people who still use flip phone, no tablet, no home appliances with any screen.
Also when you go to a restaurant with touch order kiosk, you immediately leave
@@MrQuay03 Are you using your phone or a restaurant self order kiosk while driving?
That's mostly just a design choice by Tesla. Other manufacturers will give you multiple displays including a large touch screen but there's a lot of haptic controls as well. Some EVs even support voice commands so you don't have to touch anything to activate GPS or play a song.
@@philipramirez5406 Thank you.
@@MrQuay03oh for shame someone doesnt want bright screens, notifications and pop ups distracting them while driving how silly of them what a luddite
The #1 selling EV in Japan is a < 15k USD Nissan Sakura; doesnt go very far, doesnt go very fast; perfect for city driving. The #1 selling EV in China in 2022 was from GM and SAIC a lil, go-cart, 5k usd with limited everything except cute AF. GM and Nissan already have what city dwellers, like me, want a cheap 2nd car grocery getter.
I already have a vehicle like that. It's called a _motorcycle._ 6K USD all-in and comes with a free mechanic-in-training. I liked it so much I bought a second one!
@@cisium1184right there w/ ya my primary means of transportation is a motorcycle, always a place to park -and- cops love it too. ive been harassed by three SDPD mc cops, which I end up shaming w/ arguments like "whos side are you on? all these cars are trying to kill us, why are you hassling me?" i digress.
Bingo - in would gladly buy a CHEAP effectively glorified golf cart with say a 60m range just for the grocery store, etc. But I don't need all the fancy bells and whistles for that, and i would still want an iCE vehicle for longer trips.
I run an ancient Nissan Leaf. It gets me all round town, keeps me dry, charges gently in the middle of the night and costs $15 per month for power. In 3 years it has needed only windscreen wiper blades.Friends have ICE vehicles for long runs.
@@cisium1184
Danish have it too- their is called bycicle.
I have an EV with 17000 miles on it. Absolutely love it. As a 50 year old who’s owned 10+ cars this is by far the most convenient, mainly due to charging at home. Just not having to visit gas stations on a weekly basis is a huge plus I wasn’t expecting. Downside is that public charging infrastructure needs a lot of help as long trips are a pain and require planning.
most people do not own 10 cars. this is a toy to you
Long trips in an EV will be a hassle even with a great charging infrastructure. I believe this is the real reason EV sales are slowing.
I live in rural Colorado. Most drives between towns and to Denver are 2-5 hours, 120-300 miles. EV ranges are around 300-350 miles so every round trip requires a recharge and even some one way trips would require a recharge. Further, in the winter, the mountain passes legally require 4-wheel drive which knocks down the fully charged range by 1/3. So for around 4 months a year the effective range is 200-250 miles for trips that are 120-300 miles long. They don’t work in our part of the country PERIOD.
Same detail further up the Rockies here in Northern BC.
And the range will only go down as the battery inevitably degrades.
Don't forget the range is also cut in about half by the cold. The cells of the battery shrink under around 40° F limiting your range severely.
I bought the second generation Prius (XW20) in 2004 and drove it for 16 years before the batteries finally went. Very sturdy and reliable although not exactly sporty to drive. I agree with Toyota that the hybrid is probably the best strategy for the foreseeable future. Toyota seems to know what they're doing, no surprise there.
Car owners want cars that are fun (good acceleration) and reliable (hard to break down), but,
Fun cars are more prone to breakdowns due to mechanical stresses that cause parts to deteriorate,
A boring car is subjected to less mechanical stress, resulting in fewer breakdowns and a longer life span for the car.
In Paris the taxies have been hybrid fir a while now and the drivers told me that even with the intense usage they can keep it even after 3 years. Note that the regulation impose that they pass a very complicated tests imposed to firefighter trucks and ambulances as they are considered as "public service"
Toyota are smart enough to not want to burn all the bridges that got them to where they are today. Worldwide governments are not populated by business experts , or experts in ANY field as far as I can tell. Their policies will likely bankrupt long time manufacturers, meaning fewer vehicles being built, therefore a "greener" agenda has been achieved!
Building a new car with a giant battery every 16 years is somehow the environmental gold standard now. :/
The hybrid is utter NON SENSE ! Fine for the mfg though as it can generates revenue on maintenance due to the added complexity. The real hybrid solution, a cheap simple, light EVs for daily commute, shopping, the kids... that you can charge at home and a regular ICE for the rest. No electrical SUV, truck ....
I've owned both Lexus(Toyota) and Toyota Hybrids for the last seven years. Personally I wouldn't buy anything else. They are super cheap to run, super reliable, great resale value, very long driving range, and you don't have to worry about charging stations, not to mention they just feel so much better than an ICE motor to drive. I love Toyota, and I love Japan.
As a mechanic anyone that tells me they want to buy an EV I immediately tell them to just buy a hybrid. All the benefits of both types of cars.
@@dillonbussard9576 It was my mechanic who told me to buy a Toyota. My mechanic races Porches and he told me to stay away from the European cars, and get a Toyota. Toyota has been building Hybrids for over 20yrs. I even went to the science museum in Tokyo, and they had the motor on display. It's an amazing piece of engineering.
I’ve got a 2020 Camry
First hybrid and it won’t be my last, amazing car !!!
I'm extremely satisfied with my RAV4 hybrid.
What do you mean by better than an ICE motor? You drive an ICE motor
Good list..but forgot "randomly explode"
Aw, c'mon, that's Ev's best selling point. 😄
I mentioned it in my comment… battery tech has not improved nearly enough. We need to get off of lithium entirely, and we need something that doesn’t degrade quickly in so few charge cycles
ICEs caught fire 4-5 times more often than EVs in 2021.
10:00 The slowdown in EV sales is due to the lack of the fake wood option as a colorway. If it was a good idea in the 60's and 70's, it's a good idea today.
I would’ve never imagined Harry metcalfe would be mentioned in this video, legendary car enthusiast.
I mean, I didn’t think Patrick would have such insight on the rap industry or be an amateur wood nymph spotter, but here we are.
Joe ….. 😂
Good one 👍
He’s also older than methuselah and done evolving so take his opinion where it’s coming from
Yesssssss
My best mate had an electric car. He got rid of it. You couldn't use any electric charger. And for ones that were compatible, you needed to sign up to an account for some reason, simply to get electricity to go down a wire. Then once he'd given them his personal data, it simply refused to charge. Until something as simple as getting electricity to go down a wire is worked out, nobody wants an EV.
I bought a 2nd hand EV a year ago. I can charge at home and it's got a real world range of 250 miles so 90% of my charging is at home so super easy and costs me around the equivalent of 30p per litre. Your friend must have a really weird or old car if he can't use all the chargers as they are standardised to use just 2 types, and virtually all chargers have these two types. The charging infrastructure isn't great at the moment but it's got rapidly better in the last 12 months since owning the car. When I go on long journeys I found out which are the best places to recharge and so always use them.
I run a Leaf for in-town commuting and a big QX80 for long trips. It's a perfect combination for my family of 5 where we typically have only 4 in a car at any one time. My wife and I figure out who's driving further the night before, and that person will take the Leaf. We've saved the monthly cost of the Leaf in fuel (QX80=premium @ ~14-15mpg in the city) and we charge in our home garage overnight. This has been perfect for the first 4+ years and 54k miles...
Until, I took the Leaf on a shortish 180 mile round trip for work. I was able to do what I needed to do, but had to stop for about 30 minutes and eat lunch while charging on my way home. The charging kept stopping and I'd have to disconnect then restart time and again. I charged enough (~30% to ~75%) at a level 3 DC fast charge to make it home. The next morning, the car refused to go into drive or charge over 70% with a "Service EV system" message.
Now, the car's at Nissan with a bad traction battery pack and replacement units are 6-12 _months_!! out. If this could be fixed in a timely manner, I wouldn't complain, there are often teething issues for early adopters, but Nissan's flat refusal to address the battery failure and repair issues is unacceptable. I get that the trade war with China is constricting the rare-Earth metals for batteries, but servicing existing customers absolutely needs to take priority over building more new cars that will sit on the lot for months.
You bought an electric Nissan? Or hybrid? 😂😂😂😂😂 Nissans are crappy enough with real motor.
@@tonyromano6220 Nah, their only chronic issues are the crap-tastic CVTs. Their 5.7 V8s and 3.0-3.5-3.6 V6s have been super-reliable since the 80s. And, they finally realized that any full-sized sedan or larger is too heavy for a CVT. Apparently, the CVTs will be fine if you have them serviced every 30k miles. 🙄
I just want to take a moment and recognise the quality of this video, the information, delivery, and the subdued humour, which keeps me engagedand. I am an instant subscriber. Good job 👏
My issue with EVs is the same as with all modern car manufacturing -- focus on glitzy, techy junk that detracts from the main purpose of the car: getting from A to B. I hate the screens, the avant garde interior design, removed instrument clusters, etc. Have considered old or even new hybrids as they seem to be more resilient to these innovations but the drive train systems are still getting more and more complex and less reliable.
Amen! Who on earth thought putting everything on a touchscreen was an improvement?
There's huge need for a car that's simple, safe, reliable, and not that expensive. Problem is that car isn't very profitable to make, and automakers are relying on used markets to fill that gap so they can cater to richer customers.
@@kevaduno doubt. Let's make sure as many systems as possible are dependent on the same weak link.
@@kevadu apparently it's cheaper to build than physical buttons
@@kevadu the manufacturers lol, it's a lot cheaper and means they can lock more functionality behind subscription services
EV manufacturers has been focused on the high margin luxury market for a long time and that is starting to become saturated. What's needed is cheaper EV's, it's still relatively few people that can shell out $70k for a car.
It won’t matter. There’s not anything close to the required infrastructure in place for mass EV adoption. You HAVE to target the smaller pool of high income early adopters or else you’re going to destroy the market when people realize it doesn’t scale.
Where do you live? In America you can by some base-line electric vehicles for a bit over 35000$.
@wtrbns but in the end that 35k ev doesn't compete with its gas powered counterpart, or ideally, it's plug in hybrid equivalent. Plug in hybrids are the future, not EVs, and it is a shame Tesla meme'd EVs into the top spot instead of letting the evolution of cars continue naturally.
Exactly this. EVs are way to expensive for what you get. Basically they maxxed out on their "luxury" or "aspirational" buyers who had the cash and now it's over. I live in Switzerland where people tend to buy rather expensive cars but I'm seeing A LOT of Dacia Hybrids now. 20k to 28k tops. In fact I have one on my own shortlist. I'm not spending 50k+ on a vehicle with less utility than a cheapo Dacia combi.
@@wtrbns35K is still expensive. My 99 4runner and my 13 subaru and my 73 pinzgauer combined total cost much much less.
Upvote simply for the correct use of "fewer"
I'm always deeply conflicted about this - I would absolutely love to switch to renewables for my car, but I genuinely can't see that I will ever be in a position where it would be tenable within the next thirty years. I'm in a pretty low income household, and every car I've ever owned has been at the end of it's life - when I've replaced them, they've gone to be scrapped. That's always been a stressful and precarious place to be, when you're constantly having to make the decision whether to repair a fault or replace it, but I feel like we have a fairly mature infrastructure of keeping an ICE car that is ten years old limping along, that is at best unproven for EVs if not permanently untenable. I can't help feeling like reliable EVs are multiple decades away from trickling down to the price bracket of someone who depends on moderately reliable third- or fourth-hand cars, and the UK promises to halt the sale of ICE cars in 2035 the UK (where I live) feels like it will just completely destroy my ability to own any car at all.
Patrick never fails to produce some of the best content - Been following this channel for quite some time, the production quality, the overall structure to your videos are incredible, They just keep getting better! Brilliant stuff Pat!
Multi Toyota Hybrid owner here, my 2008 Prius with 238K miles just had a rebuilt traction battery installed for $1600, and the car has averaged 46 mpg over it's life with an easy 400 mile range and 5 minute fill up. I see no reason to be reliant on plugging my car in.
Same, we have a 2015 Camry and a 2013 Alphard and both (touch wood) are going strong. I doubt the EVs around now will last that long
Toyota, one of the most reliable car manufacturers. Every country I go to, Hilux. Cheap, reliable and easy to repair.
love the prius
only car i’d really want to own unless i need a truck
Most people want to actually drive something cool though
@@Corgiking521
Then "most people" can pay an arm and a leg for gas. More hybrids for people satified with their natural penis sizes.
It's simple, those that wanted an EV got them. Those that don't want an EV, STILL DONT want them!
Lol that clip of the “Family Truckster” had me rolling.
The comment about most of the people who are interested in EVs already buying them is a good point. They've been a "cool new thing" for a while, so most people who want one would have bought a new car in that time and would have had an option for an EV. So for sales to continue to rise, you need more mainstream customers to buy them, who are less willing to deal with the challenges of an EV.
When I got my most recent car I got a plug-in hybrid. This sort of works as a best of both worlds. The battery is enough for most of my day-to-day driving, so I save significantly on gas, but I can fully charge it in my garage with a normal wall outlet, and I don't need to worry about finding places to charge on longer trips (plus it being is hybrid, it gets good milage just with the regenerative breaking). It also wasn't much more cost-wise than an equivalent ICE car. Hopefully, the charging infrastructure will continue to improve and my next car can be an EV. I am optimistic about EVs in the long-term, but I can understand why people want to stick with ICE cars for now.
Well, there's still some amount of "cool new thing" people who haven't got theirs yet. One of my parents who definitely falls into this camp only just got their EV this year. They were doing the responsible thing and waiting until their 10+ year old ICE finally became basically un-repairable. They also are "work-from-home-don't-have-to-drive-long-distances" and would actually take the bus instead if we had decent bus service (they did a lot more when I was younger).
i drive long distances for work. i can gas up my Ford in less than 5 minutes & get back to work.
also not convinced they're "better for the environment" .. no emissions is great but that's not the only thing creating pollution .. those batteries appear to be very damaging to mine, make, disposal.
@emmapeel8163
Public transport will always be more environmentally friendly. Better designed cities is another thing. Why would you need to drive so far away to your job? Zoning can make cities unnecesserly segregated. People live far away from their jobs so they need to drive for a long time
the screen-only interior design is dangerous without solid button. When I drive, it takes lots of time, and focus away from actual driving to : swipe, locating the "back button", finding the functional apps, looking for buttons on the lay-out screen to click. Also, the zoom-in-out the map and dragging map with fingers is so fucking stupid, unsafe, and uncomfortable. I have to lean forward, extend my arm to do all kinds of shit and have my eyes looking at the screen (conventionally, the map controller is a solid rotate wheel right next to where my arm relaxed);
Hope we discuss the used car market and what happens when the battery goes out for the owner and the disposal/replacement industry.
The insurance is higher specifically for Teslas because they're so expensive to repair too. A lot of time you have to send it back to Tesla directly and can't use anyone locally (unless there's a Tesla facility in your state). insurance companies just end up totaling the vehicle because it's cheaper than repairing them.
I have an ICE vehicle (Hyundai Elantra), and I currently get about 35mpg with 140,000 miles on it. I have rented a few EVs and I love the instant torque, high-tech features, and horsepower. Charging wasn't a huge problem due to Southern California having a lot of charging ports.
I want to buy an EV, but a few things are telling me to wait.
1) interest rates and savings for a down payment (cost of a new vehicle).
2) my current car is efficient and payed off
3) new charging standards mean in 3ish years there will be more charging ports with the same type of charging port
4) the tech on EVs is getting better every model year, so waiting seems most prudent
5) Legacy car makers are still figuring out what to keep/ditch/improve in their new EVs and i dont want a Tesla due to their build quality
All signs point to wait for me at the current moment
I bought a BYD Dolphin early this year, no regrets so far. It's a fantastic car and the tech works flawlessly. Many of my friends who've had reservations towards Chinese cars have been blown away by how nice it is.
Tesla's are not the same anymore. build quality is superior with the new castings as they are all the same underneath now instead of 300+ parts welded together now just one.
Nice to read a well thought-out post! Thank you! You might want to revisit the outdated "Tesla has poor build quality" myth, though. I would love an EV, but I also have a newish, paid-off, fuel efficient gas car in great shape and I don't have to drive much. I'm currently targeting 2028-9 to get an EV. If I needed a new car now, or could even reasonably justify buying one, a Tesla M3 would be a no-brainer for me.
Wow, I see some hallmarks of deflation here! Wait and prices will go down (and the tech better)...
Good points all around, though you might want to try a plug in hybrid next, and then maybe an EV after that. With a plug in, you get best of both worlds, can do all your day-to-day stuff on electric, and then maybe EVs will be efficient and cheap enough afterwards to warrant the purchase.
This is an incredibly imperfect analogy, but here's my journey with smart phones:
I started with Blackberry Bold (god I'm old), then to iPhone, then to HTC (Android), went BACK to iPhone (the hardware on HTC was awful)... then Samsung Galaxy(s) and never looked back. The point being is I could have avoided a lot of drama and money if I just waited for the general industry to mature. I'm not making that mistake again, and I'm confident I'm not the only one.
I have been involved in software for pretty much all my life and have learned to take the same approach for the same reasons: while I'm sure there are some upsides to being an early adopter, it is generally much more sensible to wait for the kinks to be ironed out (even if that takes years - or in the case of EVs, decades).
Absolutely but the worst thing is when it comes to EV cars and solar energy production. With phones we can carry the costs with poor tech pushed by media, but in the case of cars and voltaic batteries for homes it can become horrendously expensive. In South Africa the government gave subsidies for homeowners to adopt solar, gas, inverters etc and then promptly took the subsidies away. People are expected to take loans to purchase these products which have not always rendered the results manufacturers claim they have. One is often left wondering who is truly benefiting here?
@@wendymartin6479South Africa and electricity, two things are not exactly famous for going too well at the moment…. 😂
@@MelaisisSo you have on software all your life, hu? So then I guess you’re still running Windows NT because it’s so much more stable, or in case you’re a Linux friend, Ubuntu 14.10???
@@Melaisis Well see, that's the thing: I was super duper into being an early adopter. It was definitely a bragging rights thing I'll admit. This time, I'm waiting for the rest of y'all to be the guinea pigs lol.
WHY?? Hmm $60 to $80 thousand dollars for something that has limited range, hard to repair, expensive to insure and a short lifespan.
What an excellent overall EV related roundup. You covered just about every base.
The real question we should be asking is why were EV sales growing? Government incentive such as the $7500 tax credit were hoping to move electric vehicles. Electric vehicle producers were also offering lower interest rates than you would get on gas vehicles.
Now that the government has pulled back their incentives now EV’s are having a harder time because you aren’t seeing a large upfront discount and you also aren’t able to see lower interest rates thanks to the federal reserve.
Electric vehicle penetration of the market is still going to happen, but it’s been slowed down by this stagflationary environment.
So you think the Fed should’ve kept interest rates at zero forever just so we can pay lower interest on EV loans? God you are so clueless.
This is like saying your pie tastes like turds because they raised the price too high.
EV sales were growing because they were paying people to buy them, and threatening to force them to buy them without such payments later. This BS worked on trendy people and stupid people (redundant?) but it didn't work on anyone else. If you have to bribe or threaten to get what you want, you have built a figurative house of cards which *will* collapse, because most people are never, ever going to obey, ever.
Also, you need to look up the term _stagflation._ It doesn't mean what you think it means.
EVs are very bad for env and too expensive
I don't understand how cold weather adoption will continue, except for big leftist cities that burn down their own cities.
@@realnapster1522 not true on “bad for environment “
the uk taycan market is crazy. 700 for sale with less than 20k miles
Great video - perfect @ 1.25 speed. Keep 'em coming.
Excellent analysis. Thanks Patrick. Clear, documented and direct to the point. Grateful for the effort.
The cost is going to make people buy cheaper Chinese made cars. Personally i don't think we (UK) should be giving China anymore money or giving them another thing we need help with ie getting parts for repairs.
Chinese companies do what only Tesla in the west seemingly has the willingness to do which is to make actually good EVs. Every EV made by legacy auto seems to be born from the idea of "We need to make an EV to prove everyone they're not good but without making it obvious we're doing so".
I think it's basically inevitable that Europe/USA will bring in import restrictions on Chinese made/branded cars, to protect their own large industries.
@@asdreww EU and USA starting a trade war with China because our own companies are incompetent doesn't benefit anyone. The governments tried to nudge them to the right direction with incentives but in the end you can't help those who don't want to help themselves.
why in the office mister Patrick? the library background seemed more calming and characteristic somehow. still love u tho, keep at it!
spoiler alert, environmentalists are upset about coal mining already, but it's hard to set mud on fire.
as a german tesla model 3 owner i can a few things about owning an ev:
not beeing able to travel without hustle,
big price depreciation,
high costs for charging (almost as high as gas),
quite simply not a premium car for a premium price
what i do like is the instant acceleration, less noise and smell.
would i buy one again?
idk man.. only if the charging infrastructure gets their act together.
the next one will be a ICE for sure.
Saving money should be the reason to own an EV. Germany just messed up it's energy infrastructure completely.
Why are charging costs almost as expensive as gas?? 👀
I thought that that was the main selling point....😅🫣
@@MrNicoJac Because Germany messed up
@@Kaffeslide Same in UK too. Charing in many places, on motorways etc, literally costs more than a petrol car doing average economy.
@@Kaffeslidethey tried to go “green” and now power costs a fortune there. It’s ok you can tell the truth…
If you live in an apartment, it’s difficult to charge your car. If you live in a house, you’re probably in the suburbs so your drive is longer and charging options aren’t as common.
If you have a house, install solar panels, and a home battery then basically you can run your EV car for free.
@@s._3560yeah but when the sun is shining you likely not home
@@s._3560Maybe I critically misunderstand how money works: but spending thousands of dollars doesn't sound like "free" to me.
@@fridgemagnet9831That's why they included home battery
@@s._3560But the panels sure aren't free...
Gee I wonder could it be that the plummeting sales of every single consumer item have absolutely nothing to do with inflation?
Brilliant Patrick … as usual…
I have a PHEV … Honda clarity … I bought it used three years ago… it had 38,000 Kms on it… now, I am very happy of that decision to buy it… it saves me $8 for each 100 Km driven … if someone drives 25,000 Km a year … that’s a $2,000 saving a year … Hence the car was used … it wasn’t too expensive… and I don’t see a big difference in the range now in comparison to when I bought it…
And what is the dollar cost per hour for you waiting for charges for a year ? Is it way more than $2000.. time / money
@@tylerm2676
What are you talking about? I don’t have to wait for it to charge fully when I need it.
I have gas in addition to the ELECTRIC… do you understand anything about PHEVs?!
And for the record, it charges fully from zero in 2 hours.
Did I miss the part where you talked about the expense of replacing the battery?
It's a write-off level cost atm, batteries aren't getting any better or cheaper any time soon and the possibility to sell you a brand new disposable car must be more than a bit of an inducement for the industry to not change that
less of an issue with newer tech, youll looking at over a decade, they have resale value as they are so much bigger than the house wall battery options
@@meikala2114 batteries are 40% of the cost of a car, non user serviceable or replaceable, and, until we have some massive breakthrough in battery tech, dependent on rare earth elements.
When that breakthrough comes and magnesium or sodium batteries are an abundant reality, maybe
You’re great, Patrick. Thank you for posting
I love it in videos when I see a mention of Centralia PA and the mine fire, only 25 minutes from me. If visiting is a bucket list item that you have for some reason, remove it - not very exciting. Although I would say the history and story behind it is quite interesting.
Im so inlove with my ICE Mazda 3. I cant even think about another car in my future. But realistically speaking , i went to see Mazdas new launch of cars , many of them are Hybrits.
I dont really see myself buying anything else rather than ICE , however i have brand loyalty so if Mazda comes up with a full fledges EV i might reconsider
So well researched and informative Patrick. Thank you.
Why is his speech so rhythmic and weird? I'm sorry but I couldn't focus on what he was staying because he's speaking like a robot or something
@@maximusasauluk7359 Ah yes Maximus. I think it's an acquired taste and you get used to it. I find it quite endearing, but I understand you point! Go Patrick!
I'm a company owner, and we have a mixed ICE/EV fleet. Government incentives mattered to us in choosing EVs in our fleet, but not a whole lot. It was more of a "cool factor" thing to impress young recruits.
In practice, our EVs (Mercedes and Mini Cooper) have turned out beyond nightmarishly useless, and only sustainable to own for us as a company because we lease them for 1 year and then kick them to the curb for a new vehicle, thus ducking depreciation and battery degradation . My conclusion is that EVs are the NFTs of the car world. I hope hydrogen cars (fuelled by biowaste-reactor H2, which has recently seen huge breakthroughs) will arrive before the planet burns.
Biowaste, hahahaha, dream on.
@@philkeh no need to dream, here we are already fuelling tractors with h2 from biowaste reactors.
What I find insane is this policy of "all or nothing" EV push "zero emissions" (a joke when many areas of the country still rely on coal or other fossil fuels for electricity). In would gladly buy and use a CHEAP (under $20k) street legal glorified golf cart without a gazillion bells and whistles (no autopilot, no gps, just give me a radio or CD player) for simple grocery store rubs, etc (10mi round trip to the grocery so say 50-60mi range and can hit 55mph for the short bit of highway)... But for driving any distance I'd still want a fossil fuel vehicle - quick to fill the tank and go 400mi for another under 10 minute refill... My "gas tank" doesn't shrink in extreme cold weather (have our "policy makers" ever heard of winter?), etc.
This ice MINI driver agrees with you
Early adopters bought first.It's not really surprising that things are slowing down.
Greetings Patrick. Thank you for researching this topic. I intend to keep my 12 year old Jeep, and continue to repair it as needed. If I retain this vehicle until the end of my driving life, I will not have to contribute to the fossil fuel footprint of building another vehicle to replace it.
Is there any chance you could research the feasibility and cost of building out electrical generation in North America and Europe to meet EV demand?
For example, Germany has gotten rid of their nuclear generating stations only to replace them with coal fired generating stations -- such wonderful green thinking. But now they will have to build out their electrical grid infrastructure to meet future EV demand. I have heard that they are heading towards natural gas as alternative to coal, meaning the fossil fuel polluting content is only 50% less.
In any event, nations around the world will have to choose a mode of base power electrical generation, if they want an EV world. But to accomplish this, I have heard and read that the costs will be prohibitive.
I have had an EV for a little over 2 years. The car itself is fantastic, the range is sufficient and the driving experience is better than anything else I've ever driven (including track spec BMW M3's on a proper race track). The issue in Australia is the charging network, and charging etiquette. There's a massive shortage of chargers, with the incumbent government falling way short on their promises for new charges. In terms of etiquette, a lot of people - specifically those in big american utes (trucks) - see no issue parking in EV charging bays "just for a bit" and get really pissy when you tell them off for essentially parking in front of the petrol bowser.
"OOPS, keyed the blocking car. Tehe"
What about tire consumption?
@@SimonWebbRCandModellingChannel not too bad if you don’t drive like a madman
I'm wondering why you'd expect to govt to roll out the charging infra. Assuming Australia's electrical grid is sound, most everywhere gives opportunity for a set up. Gas stations are privately run, just as should charging stations should be.
My main concerns with EV are the battery degradation and the network's capacity. Living in Belgium, we had warnings a few years in a row that we could have black outs in winter. That was before EVs were even a thing _and_ we still had more nuclear capacity than we do now. The greens shot them down in favor of gas powered, which makes my pattern recognition capacity tick off.
@@wimeatsworldStop the cap😂
If a product is truly great, it doesn’t need subsidies to sell. The fact that sales consistently taper as soon as subsidies are withdrawn suggests a lack of real demand.
EV’s make sense if you have a short commute to work or live in an area (Europe) where gas is very expensive. They’re still too expensive and the infrastructure isn’t in place to make charging easy.
I love your videos, your often tongue-in-cheek humour (e.g. The Line), and your thorough yet straightforward analyses of issues.
I got a plain base model Toyota Corolla 2019, on a 5-year lease, and just bought it with the outstanding balance. I’m in the Quebec province, in Canada, so you may not be familiar with our financing schemes. In any case, I once learned about carbon footprints in new vs used cars. That extends to a new EV vs a used gas car.
Since my primary motivation to get an EV would be ecological, I feel like it doesn’t make sense to trade in my used car for a new EV. It certainly doesn’t make sense financially.
What do you think?
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Love my EV. 95% of my driving charging is not an issues as it is done at my home overnight. The other 5% where I need to travel further afield to places that have poor charging networks I rent a car. That small extra cost is worth not breath in poisonous fumes when backing out of the driveway. If you have the ability to charge at home you would be silly not getting one as they're a pleasure to drive.
First, I want to say this is about the best coverage of the EV story I've heard. I do my best to follow news and this is pretty much what I understand, although with Tesla I think you missed the bit about some of their slowdown being they're producing a vehicle no one wants, or, about 4,500 people want one, the Cybertruck so this hurts their numbers.
But you pointed out something that seems like a BIG problem in the US, and that's American auto makers don't have a good read on their market, or have given up on their market and want to push things on consumers and not give them much choice but to buy an expensive SUV or crossover because they can make more money off a single sale. Meanwhile, Toyota in different years has up to 6 of the 10 best selling vehicles in the US. That sums up American auto makers more than anything else, and their choices for BEV were TERRIBLE, picking crazy expensive things that most people don't want, thinking they'll make high profit margins on these things because subsidies will be enough to get buyers.
Well, BEV Cadillic isn't doing well, and neither is Cadillac. I see more TESLAS on the road than I do Cadillacs. And then HUMMER???
So there's been a lot of bad decision making in the US auto market with American companies including Tesla. When Toyota starts making BEV, when prices come down they'll make CARS that people want and the market will pick back up in the US, and by that time the infrastructure will have grown more, unless Trump gets elected and tries to kill it all off with the Republican party.
Thanks for the info
As somebody who bought an EV last year but not this year, my reasoning is pretty simple. I didn’t buy one this year because I already have an EV
US subscriber Patrick. Given the situation, we went with the Toyota RAV4 plug-in hybrid. Initial price was high, but was offset by a tax break. It is principally used as a hybrid, but depending on the price of gas, can be plugged in at home to be exclusively electric to reduce transit cost. Daily commute to work falls within the battery range. We additionally have a gas vehicle.
all the more to go wrong mind
I was looking to buy a 2016 bmw i3 . It has 70k miles on it the battery is out of warranty and the question is how long will it last. On the other hand my current commuter car is a 1991 Honda civic with 328,000 miles on it . its still going strong ,would a Ev last to reach 300,000 miles ?
I bought a 2017 nissan leaf for $28.5 k AUD with 150km usable range, I can charge at home and for free at my workplace, my commute is 90km (round trip). The battery is 91% of its original capacity and I can replace it for $4k (that's what I used to spend per year on petrol for my hyundai Getz) getting even more range than when it was new. It works very well for my situation but I ackowledge that I may be one of the lucky few. It will pay for itself in fuel and maintenance savings within 8 years. Downsides are that as a grey import I get no support from Nissan. Public charging options in Tasmania are ok but risky for extended trips. Would recommend.
The fall is because the initial adoption has been led by emotional decisions rather then analytical. Politicians, manufacturers and car buyers have jumped on the band wagon of 'EVs are the future and the answer' without analysing the actual pros and cons. A not uncommon human approach. It has the same feel as other bubbles but it remains to be seen what the outcome will be.
It is no doubt EVs will be the future. It is just like the move from disk hdds to ssd. Not all use cases will be replaced tomorrow, but eventually more than 95%
@@la7dfaone thing you’re leaving out. The government wasn’t mandating you switch from disk based drives to solid state 20 years ago when ssd was more expensive and couldn’t hold the same amount of data. It was adopted as the tech matured to the point it was a good idea for consumers to freely choose it.
Plus ssds don’t require a massive increase in infrastructure costing billions.
@@franciscodanconia4324 Well, we can not keep on warming the globe forever. So it is high time that all first and second World countries does the conversion right now. Climate change and its effect is well documented as the worst danger to our populations and also to other species in general.
And besides that, EVs are 300% more efficient than ICE cars. As we get more and more renewables it makes no sense to use coal or oil to pollute anymore. We have one fucking planet, and in this tiny bubble of air, water and climate we need to stop wrecking havoc to ourself and the coming generations.
Actually sales are increasing, just the growth of sales declined. A bit misleading.
Great film. I’ve driven leased EVs for almost 8 years now - first I leased a Nissan Leaf for 2 years, then another Leaf for 2 years, then a Tesla Model 3 for almost 4 years now. The weird thing is the way I’m so regularly pushed into the role of EV advocate or EV defender, when I make no claims about these cars apart from the fact that they work well for my family. I really can’t be bothered to talk people that have reservations around to buying an EV. Recently I’ve started saying “most EV drivers expect their next car will be another EV” and hoping that this shortens the debate.
haha yea that was my experience too. I got a 2nd hand BMW I3 Rex because I thought it was a pretty cool car, carbon tub etc. I suddenly became the person to voice EV concerns/rants to, and I'm like 'I don't know/really care, I don't know whether an EV is good for you, I just like interesting cars' :D
@@asdrewwhow interesting can your new car be? It’s still rolling around on 4 wheels. Still has a steering wheel and foot pedals….. just like back in the 40s, 50s, 60s….. etc.
@jasoncrandall are you saying that you don't think, in the context of the average car for sale today, that the bmw i3 is very interesting? It has a carbon fibre central chassis...
@@asdreww i can’t be anymore clear. any “car” still rolling around on 4 wheels and controlled by a steering wheel and foot pedals the way they have for the last 100 years is not interesting. This is why manufacturers have resorted to electronic entertainment and “carbon fiber central chassis” on passenger cars to trick consumers into thinking they’re driving some new innovation. Cars today are old tech with some lipstick added.
@@jasoncrandallbut but his carbon fiber chassis……😂😂😂
ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANTLY PUT TOGETHER. THANKS.
Im a big fan of hybrids and phevs for longer distances and the average person. A PHeV for us, its covers 90% ev mode and gas covers a small portion of our driving with no home upgrades and if for whatever reason we cant charge or want a long trip, theres zero stress. EVs really do shine most for homeowners to stay largely local.
I wanted a newer more reliable car, so I bought a 10 year old used Honda, bottom of the depreciation curve, affordable insurance and gets great mileage, even has a backup camera!
Yup, I'll keep my $20k honda accord all day.. no nonsense, it runs and it's cheap to maintain.
Insurance of high value cars is cheaper on average than used low value cars.
Yeah my Accord can have a Bar Mitzvah now and it's still under 100K miles. Going to ride this until it doesn't run
@@dunar1005 what are you smoking?
After I hit a deer and killed my Jetta TDI in 2021, I had to go buy a car… and I bought a new Mazda since my dealer wasn’t marking them up past MSRP. First new car, it feels weird. But it was, at that specific time, cheaper than getting a used car. Freaking weird times.
But I plan on driving it until it turns into dust one day and blows away in the wind. Before the Jetta I drove a 2001 Toyota Camry which was killed by a new BMW. Freaking tank of a car lol.
James May hit the nail on the head. It’s a charging problem not range problem. I’ve been saying that for years.
Your problem is physically impossible to solve.
1. You can’t force electrons down a wire and into a battery quickly. It’s always going to take hours to charge and degrade the battery the faster you charge. It also gets worse the bigger the battery. Remember, you have to overcome the same forces that stop you running through walls, no technology solves that.
2. We literally don’t produce enough power, have wide enough cables or can afford the number of transformers required. What ever problems the cars have the infrastructure is 10 times harder to solve.
EVs MUST operate the same way ICE do with respect to fuelling stations. The only solution I can see is hot swapping batteries.
Lol do you live in the uear 2010? A good EV (=Tesla) will literally charge during the time it takes for the human to have a pee.
Battery car trailer for longer routes? ;)
@@Nikla90Takes me around 10 minutes to go 20% to 80% at my local SC, that's a long pee.
My underground public parking only has a 22kW charger and it takes around 3 hours, but then again at 20p/kWh I can fill from empty for less than a tenner. I leave it plugged in overnight so I don't care how long it takes.
Phillip.
@@philliptemple9841 Well, I do also wash my hands so I'm slow.
Generally you don't need a full 100% recharge, only enough to get to next pee break or meal break.
The market is saturated. The believers had bought their car. The sane people are not interested in an inferior product.
Letting inflation take an additional $760 a month for an average person compared to a couple years ago and expecting to sell double the EV’s within 2 years doesn’t sound like a plan that came from smart people. 🤔