Honest Review Walther PDP 5" Steel Frame Match: Not What We Expected. It's a PDQ, or a PQD.
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
- @The2AExperiment Gives you an honest review of the Walther PDP 5" Steel Frame Match.
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See the Honest Review of the PDP Pro SD Full Size 5.1" • Walther PDP Pro SD Hon...
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Check out our PDP Pro SD update video here • 1st Walther PDP Pro SD...
Check out our review of the Holosun SCS for the PDP and M&P here • Holosun SCS PDP and MP...
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0:00 Intro
Specs/Features 0:54
The Garbage Sights 4:42
Range Trip One 6:44
Range Trip Two 7:27
The PDP Brings the Pain 11:23
Range Trip Three/Drills 12:51
Our experience with it - The Rant Begins 14:40
Comparisons and Final Thoughts 17:18 
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😂😂😂😂 that intro!
Great video, thanks for the advices.
We are glad you found the review useful. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Great video! Thanks for the honest review that saved me money!
Thanks. We have a friend who really likes his. He doesn't put a lot of rounds through it and he doesn't compete. It's a nice firearm, but not $2,000 nice. We are loving the PDP Pro SD Full size, 5.1". We bought some new springs and a comp for it. Great shooter, feels better in the hand, same trigger, and a hell of a lot less money. Thanks for watching and commenting.
@@The2AExperiment How much is the PDP Pro SD Full size, 5.1?
@@judahlion5826 It was $800 when we bought it, but I recently saw it for $675. It has come down a lot. We were testing it recently with some new ZRTS 15 and 13lb springs, and we bought a comp for it, so we still have to test that. It really is a great gun at $675. Makes the necessary upgrades sting a little less. Plus, it just has an amazing return to zero, even with the 18lb spring. We have grown to love it. Thanks for stopping by.
@@The2AExperiment Thanks for the info. What does the SD stand for? What is the difference between the Pro and the standard PDP? Do you lose much velocity and how much dirtier is the gun with a comp?
@@judahlion5826 the SD stands for "schalldampfer" which is the German word for silencer. I guess it's because the gun is supressor ready..
As to velocity, we haven't used a chronograph with it. I imagine the velocity is enough to stop a bad guy though.
We haven't tested the comp on the PDP Pro SD yet, but we have several comped guns and they don't seem any dirtier. The gasses are still escaping through the front of the gun, so it's not like using a suppressor.
As to all the features on the Pro SD, we did a full review of the gun and a follow-up video, you should check them out as we go over all the differences. Thanks for the comment.
The intro voice was dope as hell! Very cool.
Glad you liked it. We do an intro before all of our vids, except our very first review of the PDP Pro. We are trying to have some fun while doing this. Thanks for stopping by and commenting. We appreciate it. We did a follow up to this with the long stroke guide rod too.
Ive been trying to decide between m&p 2.0 or Sig 226 legion for home defense. I saw that little teaser. Do you guys plan on comjng out with a full review on the 226? Thanks
Also...your complaints on the PDP SF...do those apply to the Q5? Ive actually been eye balling the Q5 also
Hi. Are you trying to decide between an M&P 2.0 polymer and a standard 226 legion? We have the P226 Custom Works X-Five, and we have a P320 Legion, but we do not have a 226 legion. We will be doing vids on those firearms at some point, but they are both competition guns.
Although I have shot the 226 legion DA/SA, and I love it, we do not own one, so we won't be reviewing that anytime soon. Hard to go wrong with a standard 226 legion for home defense. Super reliable firearms. The M&Ps are great too, poly or metal, and they are true do-it-all guns.
If we do end up with a 226 legion, it will be the SAO RXP version, or the new custom works 226 legion version with the built in comp. If we get either of those firearms we will be doing a review for sure. Thanks for watching an commenting.
Holy smokes! It's Burton Gilliam from Blazing Saddles.
Lol. That's not what I was going for, but I guess you are right. His accent was more Texan, I think. Thanks.
I have a Q5 SF and I had a issue with the beaver tail sharp edges. It was getting annoying so I just filed that show down and rounded it out.
Thanks for letting us know. I haven't heard anyone else talking about this, and I know we are not crazy. I considered contacting Walther about it, to see if this is a known issue, but we haven't shot it since we did the ZRTS Long stroke guide rod video a while back. The Q5 is a decent piece, and it's only half the cost of the PDP SF. Might have been the better play. We appreciate it. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Thank you both for the honest review - but want to know, which is the pistol (silver) that you say crushes the Walther? Thanks.
Thanks foe watching. The silver firearm is the Sig USA Custom Works P226 X-Five. It is probably my favorite pistol I own. Everyone who we let shoot it falls in love instantly. I use it as a reference because it was also $2,000, but it is smooth and refined and a joy to shoot. If you get a chance to shoot one you'll see what I mean. Thanks for the comment.
No sir, thank you for replying and taking the time to post great content!
I handled the 4, 4.5, and 5 inch versions at my local shop, and none of them felt as good in the hand as the regular PDP.
If I did get one, I would put the LOK grip on it just to make it feel better.
Agreed. The polymer version feels much better. Like we said in the review, this isn't a real PDP, it's a modified Q5 with a PDP slide. The poly Pro SD is probably the best play. You can comp it, and it is hundreds less than the poly match.
Have a Springfield Prodigy 5" as my first "nice" gun. Over about 4k rounds, had a number of issues with it and then broke ejector so had to send back to Springfield so picked up the PDP Match SF while waiting for return. I don't have issues with the grip or beavertail, both work great for me. I am able to shoot the PDP extremely well, especially with the dot and it points naturally, dot is centered when I present so no probs there. G34 beavertail beats up my thumb real bad but no issues with PDP. My hands are 7" from base of wrist to tip of middle finger if that helps with size, I don't know if that makes them "big" lol.
Just got Prodigy back, haven't shot them back to back but holding them the Prodigy feels more natural, like I can get both hands fully wrapped around it, and I love how the 2011s have the safety as a thumb perch. The magwell on the PDP crowds my weak hand pinky and feels kind of awkward, will try removing it and see how that goes.
This is my first time watching one of your videos, like your style and candor. Will come back for more videos. Thanks for your thoughts!
First, thanks for the sub and the comment. We appreciate it, and we are always happy to hear about other's experiences with firearms. We are trying to bring something different to GunTube, and we are having a lot of fun. Every channel doesn't have to be ultra-tacti-cool...does it? Nah. Also glad to hear you got your Prodigy back, and that you like your 5" SF. Sucks when you have to send a gun off for repairs, but at least you had a high end replacement that you enjoy.
We just got back from another range trip with the 5" PDP SF. Several commenters stated the SF is amazing, or at least much better, with the ZRT Long Stroke guide rod, so we bought one. We will have a follow-up video with the results and our thoughts, but between us, and whoever decides to read this, the 5" SF just doesn't work for us.
It may be a hand size thing, but from the base of my palm to the tip of my middle finger is 7" exactly too, and I wear medium gloves. We have footage of our thumbs, and you can clearly see the indent and red spot this gun makes on our thumb knuckle. But, we also ran several hundred rounds of Blazer 124gr through it, and a bunch of mags of 147gr, as we always do, so that may be part of it.
The gun is just clunky and unrefined, for a high end, competition firearm. The new ZRT guide rod, which several reviewers already have in the gun when reviewing it, does make it less clunky, and changes the recoil impulse to more of a front-to-back feel, than an up-and-down feel. You can feel it in the palm. Kind of reminded me of the difference between the Staccato XC vs the Staccato XL. We had a different ejection pattern with the long stroke guide rod too, literally straight back at us, but it did run fine, and it did improve the gun.
In the end, roughly $2,100 worth of gun, pre-tax, after new sights, plate, and recoil system, and we are not impressed at all, and honestly, no one we let shoot it was over the moon about it either, so it's not just us. Maybe it is because we already have the same trigger in our 5.1" Pro SD, or because we have so many other nice guns that we don't appreciate this gun, especially at the price point, but I think that is only a small piece of the puzzle. It's not awful, just not great, and Shannon refuses to shoot it ever again. Her poor thumb is wrecked.
Either way, @nightwoodguns said he really liked the 4" version of the SF, and we value his opinion over most other guntubers. If you haven't checked out his channel, and you like honest reviews, you may want to. Perhaps we just bought the wrong size SF. Sorry so long, the range trip is fresh in my mind, so I am rambling about it. Again, thanks for everything.
Refreshing to see a review of this pistol that isn’t skewed by Walther influence.
Thank you. We appreciate it, and we are both fans of your work. Thanks for checking out our channel.
@@The2AExperiment id love to get you guys on the expansion chamber sometime as a guest!
@@donkeydefense Hell yes, that would be great! Let's make it happen.
How do you know a gun is skewed? Just becuase he dogs or talks crap thats not a good metric either
So far no trigger issues and almost at 100 rounds. Hope it holds up. Also, I don’t get a bite from the tang. But the grip is a bit girthy and i do have change my trigger finger placement.
I only had trigger issues on the second range trip. I think it is a length of pull thing for me. Everyone is telling us the ZRT long stroke guide rod makes the gun great. We are considering it. Good luck with yours. We'll do a follow-up if we get the new recoil setup. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Thank you all for watching, liking, commenting, and subscribing. We just hit 600 subs! Hell yes! RUclips is also un-subbing people, so make sure you are still subscribed. Thanks again.
Well deserved. Enjoy your videos.👍
@@sway696 we are almost to 300 now. So a few people are beginning to notice us. Thanks again.
Thank you for your honest review. I love my 5" polymer PDP and was seriously considering selling it and picking up the SF version but I guess I'll just keep it. Now, if Walther releases a Meister Manufaktur "Black Tie" edition of the PDP I'm all in!
Thanks for watching. We have a friend who loves his 5" SF, so like anything else, personal preference plays a factor. We were able to shoot the Canik SF last night, and it was a similar shooter. I actually preferred the grip, and the trigger was pretty damn nice too. The return to zero was a little different as well, not quite as straight up and down. Could have just been because I never shot it before. Either way, the gun was half the price of the walther. I wish we would have had access to it before we made the video. I still think that at $2,000+, the Sig P226 X Five is a much nicer gun. Thanks again for checking us out and commenting. We appreciate it. Hope you get your wish and get the Black Tie Eddition.
I used to own the Meister Manufaktur "Black Tie" edition Q5 match, it was more pretty than range practical. The fact that it shot just like the Q5 steel frame Pro only it was about $700 more started to chap my ass on why I spent more on it. It became a safe queen for a while, I didn't like getting it dirty, so then I ended up selling it. But I only took a 100 dollar loss on it, so decent return.
The one honest review that I’ve been looking for. Thank you both!
We appreciate you watching. We do our best to apply honestly, logic, basic math, and poor humor to our reviews. It's nice to hear people appreciate what we are doing. I will let Shannon know you said "thank you". She will be happy. See you in the next one.
Great video! Your honesty in regards to the experience both of you had with the PDP Steel frame is refreshing. I like how you brought up the sharp beavertail cut on the streel frame, and how the grip just doesn't feel like the polymer version. I also noticed that you flagged your wife's head twice with the Sig. The second one and more obvious, was at 18:12. Yeah, we can assume the Sig is unloaded, and your finger isn't on the trigger, etc etc. But it's obvious that you aren't a competition shooter, nor a pro at handling guns if you can't refrain from muzzling people even with an unloaded firearm. Please be more careful.
Thanks for watching and for the input. We are not competitive shooters, we have only done a few local events. We thoroughly check all firearms before adding them to the wall, or adding them to the table, and all ammunition is stored in a separate area. And we never put out fingers near the trigger when pulling something off of the wall. Either way, you should treat all firearms as if they are loaded, so I will do better. Thank you for pointing it out.
Love your humor n honesty not to mention hearing your wife's poi r of view - new sub - glad I found your channel
Thank you. We appreciate it. This is a lot more work than we thought, so we said, why not have some fun while doing it. Thanks for watching and commenting. And of course, thank you for the sub.
I absolutely love my Walther PDP full size 5 inch. Polymer of course. So much so, that I bought a second one. One for iron sights (of which I replaced with some good metal ones) and one for my optic which is my EDC. I was considering buying this one because, why not. I want to get a metal frame gun. But after your review, I think I’ll pass. Especially the sharp beaver tail edge. I think for a metal gun I’ll go with the Canik Rival S. I shot one of those and loved it.
We are really impressed with the PDP Pro SD, and now that it's in the mid $600 range, it's hard to beat it. We have been testing it with different springs and we have the Harrington Comp. At some point we will finish the testing and get a video out covering it all.
As to the PDP SF, some people really like it, and overall it's not a bad gun, but I just don't understand all the hype. Especially at $2,000. We shoot a lot of guns and it just doesn't do anything special. It really may come down to different hand sizes and preference. We have only had one or two other people comment that they had issues with the beavertail digging into them, so it may not be an issue for you. If you can get your hands on one and put a few hundred rounds through it, you will see if it is something that effects you.
Most people who review or own the PDP SF seem to like it, and many people have argued we are crazy for not loving it. It is funny though that out of all the people we let shoot ours, only one person loved it and bought one. The others were not that impressed.
One of our friends who competes went with the Canik steel frame and he loves it. We have been able to shoot the hell out of his and I have to say, I like it more than the PDP SF, and it's half the cost. So, if you really like that firearm, you may want to jump on it.
Again, if you are able to test a PDP SF, you will know for yourself. Either way, good luck with your steel frame gun purchase. There are lots of good options out there. If are not looking for a striker fired competition gun, and you are looking in the $2,000 range, don't sleep on the SIG Custom Works P226 X-Five. It's our favorite firearm at that price point, and they are still making them. It's an all steel, single action only, 4 way adjustable trigger beast. Thanks for watching and commenting. Let us know what you end up with.
@@The2AExperiment Cool! I’ll be watching for your full Pro SD review. I almost bought one before I bought my second full size PDP 5 inch. I’m not a competitive shooter although it looks like a lot of fun to challenge skills with. So I’m not necessarily looking for a threaded barrel for a can or compensator. Although I do have a Canik TP9 Elite Combat with a threaded barrel that is a very nice shooter and has been totally reliable.
I’m strictly just a self defense shooter that loves to take as many classes as I can to be as effective and proficient as I can. And honestly, having a nice steel frame gun would really be more of a “range toy” for me and just to say I have one. And honestly, as a retired guy with four grandchildren to buy things for, money can be tight at times. 😂 So almost $2000 for a Walther PDP steel frame is a little steep when I could get the Rival S for half that. But I still would love to find someone with the steel frame PDP so I could try it out.
Thanks for the response and good info! Just subbed to your channel and look forward to more cool gun stuff!
UFO cup for the win! I want to believe!!!
Ha! That's a 'Get Entered To Win" cup. Damn thing was $50. It was for a chance at the Laugo Alien Creator. We didn't win:(
Love to see you guys get a polymer match
Although I swore I wouldn't do it, we decided to order two spring kits to try on the Pro SD and the SF. Both are oversprung. We also ordered a comp for the PRO SD. This is truly getting to be an expensive experiment. Lol. We want to see if we can just make the perfect Walther. We'll keep everyone posted. Also, Tactical Consideratons did a video with the SF and the Poly Match. The results were interesting. You should check it out.
@@The2AExperiment ZR tactical has a guide rod with a 15 lb spring that made a noticeable difference on my pdp compact
@@ericscott6427 I am pretty excited to try the 15 out in the SF and the Pro. I am guessing the 13 won't work well, but we did get the Comp too, so it may work after that is installed. I heard you may need to change the striker spring too with a really light spring. I guess we'll find out. Thank you.
Thanks for your review. I want to buy my first pistol next week. I can't decide between the Shadow 2 SA and the Walther PDP 5"SF Match. Which one would you recommend? Accuracy is important to me. In Germany the Shadow costs €1600 and the Walther €2200. Is the extra cost justified? Greetings from Germany
Hello. We are always happy to receive a greeting from Germany, and we are glad to hear you are buying your first pistol soon. However, your question is tough to answer, as you didn't say what you want the pistol for, other than accuracy, which both pistols excel at. Moreover, what feels good for us may not be good for you, for a variety of reasons, like hand size, length of pull, manual of arms, etc.
Anyway, we really like the CZ Shadow 2 series of pistols. They are reasonably priced, high quality firearms, that feel great in the hand, and are great shooters. You really feel like you are getting your monies worth with the Shadow 2. That being said, we have shot them, but we do not own one. The reason is, they do not make a firearm that meets all of our needs.
You stated you were interested in the Shadow 2 SA. That is a nice firearm, and as a pure shooter, it is hard to beat at the price point. However, it is not optic ready, and because it is SA only, it has limited use in competition. The DA/SA Shadow 2 comes optic ready now, and can be used in multiple competition divisions, but the initial double action pull doesn't work for me, because I can barely reach the trigger. That may not be an issue for you.
The Walther feels clunky, jagged, and unrefined in comparison, and we feel it is overpriced. It actually feels very similar to the Canik Steel Frame, which, while not quite as nice as the Walther, costs half as much, and shoot similarly, out of the box. The Walther is a nice gun, but it is overpriced by about $500, when compared to similar firearms. However, the two things the Walther has going for it are, it is optic ready, and it has a great, consistent striker fired trigger. So, like the SA only, the trigger pull will not change, which is nice, and why I can understand competition shooters are now gravitating towards it.
In short, only you can make the call, but if possible, hold them both and see how they feel to you. Dry fire them, point them, manipulate the slides, and get a proper feel for the firearm. There is no substitute for actually shooting the guns, but you can get a basic understanding of what feels better to you. Also, consider what you plan on doing with the firearm, and consider whether or not you plan on using optics in the future, or getting into competition. I know this doesn't answer your question, but I hope it helps. Let us know what you decide to get, and how you like it. Thanks for stopping by.
@@The2AExperiment Thank you very much for the detailed answer. I had both versions in my hand and both fit perfectly. In Germany, dynamic shooting is very limited and we usually shoot statically at 25 meters or at steel plates. I would also like to try IPSC in the future.
For every semi-automatic weapon we need a requirement that has to be approved by the authorities. This always requires a shooting discipline.
So I think the Shadow 2 Single Action is the better choice. I can put the money I save into ammunition and equipment.
@@Geno106 The optics ready with DA/SA trigger could be the better option considering the new gun laws on the horizon where you could end up having to shoot in competions with EACH gun to be allowed to keep them (instead of only after the third weapon like now). Before getting the SA first and then the approval for a DA or OR variant because you cant shoot IPSC with the SA was the more "strategic" option.
A friend of mine shoots the Shadow 2 while his wife has the Q5 SF which he shoots now. He slightly prefers the Q5 although having the S2 sent to CZ for months now because something in the grip broke off could have influenced his opinion. He also said to go to the store and feel how they fit because thats most important since both guns are very good. He also said that the heavier trigger pull isnt that much of a deal since its a good trigger pull.
The PDP’s and the Sigs both excited me when I first saw them and I wanted to love them. Unfortunately both were not as good as I had hoped for.🤷♂️ I know everyone has different opinions, this is just mine. Seems a lot of new stuff turns out to be more gimmicky because of today’s culture of people who dress up their firearms and post them on instagram.😂🤷♂️ Last time I went I was seriously considering the PDP pro and ended up buying a Glock 21 mos and I 100 percent know I made the right call and saved money doing so.😂🤷♂️Thanks for sharing your thoughts on it, as always much appreciated.
Thanks for the input, and for watching. Shannon and I were just discussing this. We own a lot of firearms, and because we know a lot of shooters, we are able to shoot even more guns, which everyone is not able to do. So, we were wondering if it has a profound effect on our opinion of new guns we get. We think it does, but that's not necessarily a bad thing, as we have no incentive to make a gun sound better than it actually is. It's just harder to "wow" us anymore. Honestly, the last gun to really impress me was the Sig Custom Works P226 X Five. We just love everything about that gun. Oh, and the most surprising gun was the Berreta APX Combat. Really underrated. The Staccato XC and Laugo Alien are pretty cool too. Most stuff brings nothing new or better to the table, out of the box. That's why our reviews are based more on cost benefit analysis and garbage humor. Thanks again for watching and submitting. We appreciate it.
I was a Glock fanboy for a decade until one of my own guns tried to fkn kill me. Sold all 12 of them and switched to H&K
@@vicswhips Holy shite! Yeah I can see why you would. HK is quality stuff. Fine choice. Out of all mine only 2 are gen 5 Glocks. Hopefully I never have that kind of issue because I’d probably do the same.
@@vicswhips I don't know what's scarier, the fact that one of your Glocks tried to kill you, or the fact that you had 12 Glocks. In all seriousness, sorry to hear you had an issue like that. We don't own a H&K, but my buddy has one in 40. It's been years, so I don't remember the model, but it was a nice shooter. I actually shot it better than my FNX-9 I carried at the time. Hoping to add an H&K to the collection in the future. I've been eyeing the LTT P30. Thanks for stopping by and commenting.
Appreciate the honest review. I will say candidly walther's lineup is quite vexing. They have like 4 versions of the same pistol. But it sounds like the Q5SF is still better than this especially if it can be had for less than 1400
From what We have seen, from several Walther guys, they prefer the PDP to the Q5. It seems to mostly be due to the extended grip. I prefer the feel of the Q5 and Q4 to the PDP, but I haven't shot them, so I can't directly compare shootability. There does appear to be some improvements in the PDP, like lower optic mounting and beefed up locking lug, but the PDP price is pretty steep. It's kind of crazy there aren't many direct comparisons out there that definitely answer why someone should buy the PDP over the Q5, other than capacity. Hopefully, we'll get our hands on one and be able to do a shootability test. Thanks for commenting.
Sorry bro, have both exact guns. The SF is tits👌🏻 The polymer needs a 15lb spring.
I agree, the Polymer version needs a spring reduction. Just ordered an uncaptured ZR Tactical guiderod and a 13 and a 15 for it. Actually, the SF can use a lighter spring too. I am glad you like your SF. Thanks.
@@The2AExperiment ordered the same combo from ZR Tactical. Sorry to hear the gun digging into your hand. Fits my hand with no issues. I will say I miss my Shadow 2 that I sold.
@@johannessteenekamp3387 thanks man. Sometimes we burn 500 to 1000 rounds in a day, so like we said, it takes a few hundred to really start hurting. Honestly don't understand why they didn't just clone the PDP frame. Its not as pretty, but it is really comfortable. We will be picking up a CZ this year. We have shot them a lot, just can't decide on one, so many cool models. The optics ready thing has held us back too. Really want the DWX. Let us know how those springs work out for you. We are pretty excited about it. Have a good one.
What sights are you using?
Hi. Thanks for the sub. The sights are Ameriglo GL-811.
ameriglo.com/products/details/gl-811
Well, I just shot this last week. My department is looking at this as an option for officers. Personally, I really liked it. I have XXL -XXXL hands and felt the grip could have been a bit larger. The only real problem I encountered was, due to my grip, my thumb rested on the slide release, so the slide kept dropping after the last round. I run into the exact same issue with my Glock 17. I've had to install the large backstrap on my G17 to correct the issue. The best part of the Walther, in my humble opinion, was the trigger. Overall, I liked the Walther. That being said, at a price tag of $1,800, I'll just spend a few extra dollars and go with my Staccato P.
Thanks for the info. Is your department looking at issuing the 5" model, or the 4.5" or 4"? If they do, let us know.
As we said it's a nice gun, but at the price point, it's not amazing, and it needs upgrades, so it costs even more, and there are plenty of other options. As you said, the trigger is great, but we have the same trigger in the Polymer Pro, so it wasn't something we hadn't already experienced, and that wow factor was gone. Plus I was getting some trigger freeze, which didn't help. Either way, other companies should take note on how to make a striker fired trigger.
The hand size thing may be able to be rectified with different grip panels. I believe they make larger ones. Unfortunately, we can't make the gun any smaller. We appreciate the comment and your take on the gun. Thanks for watching.
@The2AExperiment My department is looking at them as an option for officers to purchase on their own to carry if they wish. They are looking at several different firearms to allow officers to purchase & carry. If an officer doesn't want to buy one, then we will still issue a G17. As you know, some folks just shoot better on different platforms. So, we are trying to give them that option if they choose.
@@kristopherwilliams1719 Thanks for the follow-up. We have some friends who are Officers. They are all mandated to carry Glocks, and one of their departments will not allow them to use optics. It's crazy how different departments are. Like you said in your first post, if you have to pay for it yourself, it may be better to spend a little more on the Staccato P. They have the Heros Program, so it is 10% off for vets. It may be more for officers. We have a Staccato XC and it is on another level than the Walther SF, but I guess everyone's experience will be a bit different. Nothing wrong with a G17 Either. The Walther SF does come in different sizes, and they may have an officer discount as well. If you don't mind, let us know what you decide to get. Thanks again.
The PDP Pro SD is hard to beat at $700.
For $2K, might as well get the Canik Rival-S and a nice red dot.
A friend of ours recently purchased the the Canik steel frame, so we were able to run some rounds through it. It was pretty good, out of the box. Plus, it came with a whole bunch of extras. I think the red dot was part of the deal too.
Either way, it was half of the cost of the Walther, and shot similarly. We actually prefer the grip on the Canik.
In short, besides the issue we are having with the gun digging into our thumb bone, the biggest drawback is the ridiculous price of Walther SF. Twice as much as nearly everything in it's category, and not "better" than any of them, for our purposes. Thanks for stopping by.
I prefer your straight shooting review.
I canceled my subscriptions to the TON of “presenters” that NEVER do REAL reviews.
Thanks.
We appreciate the feedback. Sounds like more and more people are getting tired of gun advertisements posing as gun reviews. We know we were. Thanks for the support.
I love this gun.. seems to be the gun Everyone asks to shoot when i go to the range, even more than my Platypus..
I agree with what u said about the sights, they are dog shit, but i think Walther figured that if u buy this gun u are using a red dot and why not save money on a feature nobody is going to utilize anyway.. I prefer not to cowitness on a range/competition gun, thats something i only care about on my EDC.. The trigger on this might be the best u can get outside of some of those 2011's imo
Thanks for the comment. Overall, guns are a very subjective thing. We have a friend who has the 4" SF and the 5" and he loves his 5" SF, but doesn't care for the 4". Whlie other people prefer the 4".
We have let around a dozen people shoot ours, and they all said it was nice, but no one was wowed, especially when they heard the price. In fact, I have tried to sell it, at a substantial discount, to everyone who shoots it, but no luck yet.
It's a nice gun, but it's overpriced and it just doesn't do it for us. It's uncomfortable to shoot for a long session and pretty stiff and clunky. Maybe we just got a bad copy. I will eventually shoot our friends and see if his is any different than ours.
As you said, the trigger is great, but we already have it in the 5.1" Pro SD, which we really like, so the wow factor isn't there. If this drops in price, like the Q5 did, it will be a much better proposition for most people. Thanks again for the comment.
So how does it compare to the Canik Rival S?
We don't have a lot of trigger time behind the Canik, but to me, the PDP SF tracks better, or has a more predictable return to zero. The Canik feels better in my hands, and the trigger is surprisingly good, but it seems to have a more unstable return to zero, if that makes sense. Either way, from my limited experience with the Canik, the PDP shoots better, but not $1,000 better. Again, at the time we made this video we had several thousand rounds through the Walther, and we have less than 100 rounds each through the Canik SF. We also haven't run and gun with the Canik, so not sure about It's handling while drawing or transitioning targets. I am sure it would be pretty good though. The Canik comes with a lot of cool stuff too. Seems like a great bang for the buck. Thanks for watching and commenting.
@@The2AExperiment thanks for the honest opinions and response. You have a new subscriber!
@@oddballgunman5288 thank you. We appreciate it.
Great honest review, and points to what seems like a wildly over priced attempt from Walther. PDP’s are notoriously over sprung. Not a fan boy at all, but I run the Pro SD Compact and after some tuning I love it. Threw a 15lb spring, solid steel guide rod, and PMM comp on it before I loved it though lol. 13lb Spring is awesome with range ammo but not enough for +P so I leave the 15lb in it.
Thank you, we appreciate it. We recently picked up the ZRT fluted guide rod and a 13lb and 15lb spring. We haven't had a chance to try them yet, but we expect good things. We really like our 5.1" Pro SD. Once we sort it out we will do a video on it. We picked up the Harrington comp too, so that should be fun. Thanks again for the compliment and for watching and commenting. Hope to hear from you on future vids, even if it's not a compliment.
Ooh, you mentioned the X5 Legion... I feel like that pistol is worth the money spent!
The Walther is a nice gun, but it is in a crowded market of very good firearms that cost less, and do the same thing. The Legion is an excellent firearm and it cost half what the Walther costs. A lot of it is subjective, but when looking at bang for the buck and overall performance, the Walther is overpriced, to me.
Unfortunate about the steel version…. I recently purchased the PDP Pro with the Acro direct mounted and it’s fantastic!
I have been interested in that model since it was announced, I haven't seen them for sale anywhere. Does it come with a stainless guiderod? Is it still 18lbs? And, if you don't mind, what does it cost? Thanks.
@@The2AExperiment Polymer guide rod, not sure of the spring. Unfortunately it’s LEO only and has to be purchased directly from Walther. It’s one hell of a deal at 999 including the Acro.
@@Bad_Rattle Wow! That's a great deal and it solves the sights issue with the PDP series too. They should release that version to everyone, or something similar, even if it costs more. I appreciate the info. Stay safe out there.
What kind of gun is that you pulled off the wall and said its better than the walther.
That is the Sig USA Custom Works 226 X-Five. Ironically, we are just leaving the range and we took both the X Five and the PDP SF, because I said the Sig was superior in the review. I wanted to make sure I didn't remember it more fondly than it really is. The Sig destroys it. We let some other people shoot them both as well, and no one loved the PDP SF. They said it was nice, or OK. They loved the 226 X Five. You can get it, if you can find it, for around the same price as the Walther, after upgrades. Thanks for watching.
ZRTS Long Stroke guide rod and recoil spring. You’re welcome 😂
Thanks. I have heard they do a nice job. I just picked up the ZRTS non captured fluted guide rod and a 13lb and 15lb spring. Interested to see the results. Thanks again.
@@The2AExperimentany update after the guide rod/recoil spring upgrade?
@@TwilitSword we did a video on it last week. It's posted. You should check it out. Thanks.
@@The2AExperiment I did, no longer a freeloader. Thanks.
@@TwilitSword Welcome aboard! Lol. Thanks man.
I love my upgraded polymer PDP, but I'd need the steel one to be like $1,200 to be worth it.
Walther carries the name, so it will probably never be sold at that price. It is a well made, heavy, steel gun, so if it came with decent sights, I think $1,600 would be a reasonable price, and in line with similar guns on the market. Having to upgrade it, removes some of the value, due to added cost.
PDP Steel 4"
- gotta put real sights on it
- gotta put an optic on it
- gotta put a DPT trigger in it
- gotta put lok grips on it
at that point you're getting close to the $3k mark
and for 3k you can get a hell of a gun elsewhere
We don't have experience with the 4". The 5" comes with the trigger, but you still need sights, a better plate, and a lighter recoil assembly wouldn't hurt. As we said in the review, it's a decent gun, but after upgrades, it is overpriced when comparing it to other guns in the category. Thanks for watching.
I rather have plastic sights. I'm very picky with my sights. Even with steel sights. If its not the exact sights I want. I'm changing the sights. I had a smith and wesson that came with steel sights. Changed it out.
Thanks for watching and commenting. I wish we were not concerned with plastic parts, or co-witnessing. It would save us a lot of money. There is no one size fits all gun, or feature set. We simply expect more out of a roughly $2,000 gun, and that is based on owning, or having shot other guns in the price range. This thing has some great features, but it lags behind in a few areas too, which is sad. Thanks again.
@@The2AExperiment Fair enough. #2a
4:02 checks out
I was kind of sad about it. Wanted to try it with the threaded barrel. Thanks for commenting.
Most competition shooters remove irons in optics divisions. I grinded down my front sight on my shadow 2. I see your point on spending almost 2k on a gun just to get shitty plastic Glock sights though.
We've only done a few indoor matches and a target shoot. Our other competition style guns are the Staccato XC, Sig X-Five Legion, M&P Metal Competitor, Sig P226 X-Five Custom Works, and the Sig AXG Scorpion (because it fits my Ghost Hydra Holster), and aside form the Scorpion, they all came with a nice fiberoptic front and a blacked out rear, and only one of those guns cost more than the Walther SF. Needless to say, the plastic was not a welcome feature. We know a lot of people remove their sights, and we have a friend who takes his sights off too, but we are sticklers for having back up irons. I have had two optics go down during competitions, and I do not have duplicate guns to run, so I insist on co-witnessable irons. To each their own, but I never understood getting rid of irons as they are invisible while you are shooting anyway. I don't notice them at all, but I definitely want them there, just in case. Cool channel, by the way. Subbed. Your ninja walk is on point. Thanks for watching an commenting.
@@The2AExperiment I get that. When I first started uspsa I was shooting a M&p. My rmr died in the middle of a stage and I resorted to my back up irons. A year later when I switched to a shadow 2 my sro died in the middle of a stage. My indexing was good enough where I was able to point shoot and get acceptable hits. On a comp gun I’m ok without back up irons. My carry gun, I can see having back up sights as a necessity
I sold my X5 legion for this gun.
So what do you think? Was it worth the extra $1,000? Did you upgrade it, or are you running it stock? Let us know. Thanks.
How do you expect a FULL SIZE metal gun would be the same as a smaller polymer gun? That blows my mind. This gun with the ZRT long stroke guide rod beats out any polymer pdp.
Thanks for the comment. I have the full sized PDP 5.1" pro SD. it's not smaller, only lighter. Not sure how long you have been shooting, but larger, or heavier guns do not automatically equate to better shootability. Also, the fact that you state the steel frame pdp needed an upgraded guide rod and sprig reinforces why there is nothing special about this gun, especially out of the box. And that's only one of multiple upgrades it needs. I own a lot of guns, and have shot many more, and the poly version of this gun, feels better in my hands, and it is a better shooter. You should watch Tactical Considerations video where he shoots the Poly Match vs the SF Match. The results may surprise you. Thanks again.
@@The2AExperiment I have been shooting for many years. I primarily shoot USPSA now. I had the first generation PDPs and everything in between. I have had a total of 7 at one time or another. This gun is a competition race horse. I hate to break it to you. I have shot the Shadows and all the 2011's. ALL of them need tweaked for top performance in one way or another. A guide rod spring is not that serious of an upgrade. Lokgrips are another upgrade for the cherry on top. I dont watch Tactical Considerations because he is a gear whore not a shooter. I respect your opinion, not trying to start shit. But this gun rips at long rang, close range, fast shooting etc.etc. It is going to be showing up in matches for medium to high level shooters for years to come. Sorry you had a bad experience. And yes, I am a Walther Fan Boi...lol
@@roycekillz2404 that's awesome. I love getting other people's perspectives, especially that of a seasoned competition shooter, which we are not.
Either way, I guess we are looking at the gun from different perspectives. I am looking at the purchase from an everyday shooter's point of view, not a seasoned competition shooter. This thing needs upgrades out of the box, where others in the same, or lesser price ranges don't. Plus, this thing is not cheap, and we shoot the polymer gun better overall. Also, with a few upgrades, the poly is still a lot cheaper and will do everything as well as the SF, except for weighing as much. I'm not talking about reinforced barrel lugs or wider rails, just shootability.
We have only started dabbling in local steel shoots and target competitions, but we hope to get more involved in competition this year. This is the main reason we purchased this gun. I used the Staccato XC for a recent target shoot, until the Delta Point went down, then it was the Beretta APX gen 1 Combat, because that's what I had with me. The gun doesn't seem to matter as much for the stationary stuff. A decent trigger and not freaking out, was more important. Lol.
However, for the steel shoots, I have been using the Sig X5 legion and the Sig AXG Scorpion. They both work in my Ghost Hydra holster. I put a Grey Guns competition trigger and new Armort Craft recoil system in the Scorpion, but I left the X5 alone. Ironically, I won once with the X5 and came in in the top 3 with the Scorpion a couple of times, so all the upgrades didn't help me much. They both have their pros and cons. As we said in the vid, and as you discussed, heavy guns are great at distance, which is where we preferred the steel frame Walther to the poly pro, same with the X5 to the Scorpion, but the lighter Scorpion is easier to draw and weild than the heavier gun. And as you know, people with lighter, and even poly guns have won major competition titles. So the steel vs poly thing is not that cut and dry. Of course that will change depending on the division you are shooting in, but you know what I mean.
In short, as we said, it's a nice gun, and it shoots well, but we expected something different out of it, and we thought it would be "the one", but for us it isn't. I am actually sad about that because it cost us a lot of money to find this out. And, out of the box, I do not feel it out performs less expensive guns we own. Plus that beavertail digs into my thumb bone. I am beginning to think this is either exclusive to our copy, or it's because we are putting 500 to 700 rounds through it in a day. Thanks again for the comment and for watching. Hope to hear from you on future vids. By the way, we like Walther too. Maybe one day they will make a complete gun out of the box and we can talk about how great they are. 😀
agree with your points. 226X5 is way better , CZ shadow 2 TS2 TSO is waywayway better than this pdp sf
Unfortunately, it really doesn't bring anything to the table, and it needs upgrades right out of the box. It's not horrible, it's just not that good. It's almost like a cash-grab using the PDP name. We are building the Pro SD and we will have some new comparisons coming shortly. Thanks for watching and for the comment.
Have both of those .. the poly is no comparison to the SF .
I agree, there is no comparison, but for different reasons. One is now $650, with the same trigger and magwell, the other is $2,000, not as comfortable to shoot, and single purposed. At least it's heavy, but that is it's only positive upgrade from the poly. I still feel the Steel frame is overrated and greatly overpriced. For that money, unless you are a serious competitor, who needs a striker fired gun to get around hammer down starts, there are far better guns in the price range.
It will be interesting to see how the new P320 SF X-Five compares, and the $1,000 Canik SF already gives the Walther SF a run for it's money without upgrades. Plus, the QF SF is cheap now, and other than magazine capacity, it's a solid striker fired option too. Actually, we have a friend who likes his Walther 5" SF more than his Alien. Lot's of good choices out there and different guns work for different people. Glad you like yours. Thanks for the comment.
Fyi walther never said there was modularity for the steel frame models that was the normal pdp
I haven't heard anything specific about the SF guns, but modularity is a new talking point with Walther firearms, so I wanted to make sure people were aware they wouldn't be able to swap the slides if they were considering it. In the uncut video I showed the guns apart and highlighted the difference, but RUclips apparently doesn't like that, so I took it out. Thank you for watching and commenting.
@@The2AExperimentmodualrity is a talking point in the polymer pdps all slides swap minus the f model becuase they had to change things for that. You can give the wrong impression by what you are saying. Modularity means different things for differnt people example the military trials with sig modualarity was something completly different
At this point I don’t know why you’d get this instead of the cheaper shadow 2 for competition.
I have shot both and greatly prefer the CZ. They are very different guns though. I think the 320 legion is just as good as the PDP SF, for half the cost, and it requires no upgrades out of the box. Maybe even the DH3, or Canik SF. There are lot's of striker fired options out now, and this doesn't stand out to us. Thanks.
That’s a shame. I figured because of the name it was going to actually be a pdp steel frame.
It is a shame. We were really excited to buy this gun, because we thought it would be a steel clone of the PDP. I imagine you can get different backstraps to make it feel more like a PDP, but even Walther says it is the "unholy union" of two guns. It's not horrible, it's just not that good either. Thanks for watching.
Sometimes you need to have a real one to tell the truth about those guns those big RUclipsr out here lying they just care about money
Thanks man. There are some good ones out there, but yeah, lots of shills out there too. Plus, some people just have different opinions about what makes a firearm worth getting. We appreciate it.
YT...the only place where you can watch ads that will be interrupted by ads. ;-)
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Why would you put a tritium sights with a red dot vs black out front and back. Makes no sense
Thanks for the input. It makes perfect sense to me. The set I installed has an almost invisible tritium dot. It's very small, and looks much larger on camera, with a light shining on it, like in the video. So, they are nearly a blacked out set of sights. I'm not sure how long you have been using red dots, but, I could have put a tall fiberoptic front, or a big, red clown nose and it wouldn't effect using the dot. After years of shooting optics, you don't see the sights at all, regardless of what type they are. But, if the dot goes down, which I have had happen, in an actual target competition, that barely visible tritium dot is easier to pick up than just a blacked out front. At least for my eyes. Thanks for the comment.
I think the keybpoint is for your eyes i have beem shooting optics for about 4 years and irons for 20. The transition wasnt hard n@The2AExperiment
I love my Q4 SF…it’s an amazing handgun. Especially since I got it brand new for $899
The Q4 is a cool pistol, and that is a great price. They feel great in the hand, because of the shorter, more bulging grip, and we seriously considered getting one. Never got to shoot one, but I imagine it shoots nice. Thanks for the comment and for watching.
Where did you get the acrylic pistol displays? You should do a video and rank your top 5 favorite pistols. You each could have your own top 5. My wife has really small hands so finding stuff that she like is not easy.
The acrylic pistol displays are from NO-M.A.R. I found them on Amazon, and they run about $30. They are really well made and have held up to abnormal use. We are constantly taking guns on and off of them. We are planning some "favorites/best of" videos, and Shannon is planning some videos for women. She used to work at a gun store and range and she is a certified RSO, so she has helped a lot of women, and some guys, with shooting and gun selection. We appreciate the comment and request.
A heads up on the pistol displays - They are from Plastix Revolution. I reached out to them and got a link to their direct site, and they are giving 5% off if you buy one and use our name at checkout. I am now including the link in all the vids. That was cool of them to do. Hope that helps.