Can I Get Away From Aces Here? | Ask SplitSuit
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- Опубликовано: 21 сен 2024
- Learn more about SPR and how to use it when making flop decisions: • What Is SPR? | Poker Q...
OddAndy finds himself in a 5-way pot with pocket Aces. When the board is 982 he wonders if he can ever find a fold against a set. Andy asks some great questions about SPR and when/how to get away from these unfortunate situations, and SplitSuit answers everything in simple-to-understand terms.
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Raise to 8 big blinds and get 4 calls... I want to play in that game
+OMGClayAiken Come to any casino in Belgium
So much wacky shit going on in this hand lol.
Or any casino in Aus
This is pretty typical in live play tbh. Online is WAY different
Any casino in Los Angeles
Btw, a slight revision - the SPR value is correct, but it should state 134/80 not the 80/134 as shown. Hands down the most comprehensive online poker tutorial there is. Keep up the excellent work.
come on man, I love the vids but it's 1-2, the raise to 16 is FINE IMO. 3X is the standard, maybe 4X in live. With 2 limps, he's going 8x which is a fine size, (4x-5x normally would raise + 2x for the limpers + 1x cause it's fine to go a bit higher. But a raise to 20? You're gonna get so many folds I think, more money lost on folds than on the ocasional calls.
It's not a splitsuit vid if he says your 3bet size is good
I like his insight but it’s getting boring now. He seems to call out bet sizing every single time even when there’s nothing wrong with it. This is a prime example. Nothing wrong with $16 here.
I think he's changed his view on this since doing these videos. His logic at the time was that in these games you will have bad players who will call inelastically. But it messes you up in terms of balance. What if you want to play K9s in late position - do we really want to go to $20?
Raises to 8x, James still says go bigger. He will just never be happy until we're open shoving every value hand.
You were still 52% before the flop. As long as you get it in with an edge, your playing correctly, but the fewer callers the more your edge. Great hand.
Which videos would be best for someone who is getting started with poker and learning poker in a deeper sense? Like definitions and all that jazz before the more complicated stuff? Like what all these stats are and what they mean. Please. Thank you. :)
Hey split I know this videos a little old but I do the same thing about the top off chips so I can mix it up a little bit and not get short stacked table image is everything. Btw. I like watching your videos
Could u get away? NEVER!!
Let's say you have JJ or QQ in this spot instead of AA. How do we play the hand differently? Are we still just jamming the flop?
Question: If hero had a higher stack, and SPR was 6+, calling was wrong? If not, the SB raising to $100 on that spot with BB folding, what would be a good response?
+Sraffa even in that spot, does the SB have a CR range that isn't super nutted?
I know this is an older video, but you know me and I love to ask these kinds of questions:
What's the bottom of our value shipping range here, given the SPR and the action? Should we have a calling range in this spot?
Your calling range could be sets and maybe the 98 combos but only for value and even if a draw happens (straight, Flush) you still go all-in on the river.
No.. ruleof thumb with SPR of under 2,you ship it with top pair or better.
a lot of people these days play plo and pot limit omaha.i played it a couple of times but dont like it at all.would be great to share your thought about it with us sir .thank you
plo and pot limit omaha is the same sir:)
so I didn't understand, what is yhe Best Play here? the Shove seems ok to me
Why do you have to raise or shove the flop? Given the pot size and hero's stack size, 2 pairs, sets, even straight/flush draws are likely gonna call anyway. Is the intention to just get the SB to fold? Otherwise, what does raising accomplish here as you're only folding out 1 pair hands, which seems like hero succeeded with the BB, but, for long term sake. Is it not smart to call and proceed with caution, as you can fold after a nasty turn card and live for another hand. Granted, most people at a 1/2 table do shove over pairs by default lol
It's very obvious that the BB doesn't have shit, given his tiny bet size. So as long as the SB doesn't have shit either, this shove accomplishes exactly what it needs to: either taking down the pot or making a (long-term) profit against draws who call without good pot odds. So in this exact spot, only the SB having a set or 98 can really fuck us over here.
It's hard to fold AA!
does anyone else feel like all the hand analysis comes out to “oh you were getting stacked as the most optimal play”...
What differentiates us from the fish then? If we’re just getting it in because we have a decent hand every time, and losing it all and then chalking it up “oh plus EV play”???
The differentiator is that fish make decisions SOLELY based upon their absolute hand strength. We make our decisions based upon the relative value of our hand vs their range. Even if their range contains some hands that beat us, that fact alone doesn't imply that folding is correct.
The EV is against the range as a whole, not the exact hole cards that they happen to have this exact time.
Wow I played a very similar hand 3 days ago. 4 players limped and I raised with aces and everyone called. Flop was Q24 rainbow and it checked to me and I bet out 2/3 pot and got raised. Weird spot but the table was so loose that I thought KQ, AQ, KK etc could all be raising so I jammed for about half a stack and the dude showed pocket 4s. Could I have gotten away?
We don't know stack sizes. So we can't tell you. If either of your stacks are below 2 SPR then probably no. Especially with the Villain having such a loose image.
@@andrewadami3920 we both started with roughly 5 bucks which was a full 100 big blinds and my bet on the flop before I got raised left me with about 3.50 behind
James, can we profitably stack off in this same spot but in a tournament?
+John Griller since you likely raise the lead anyway...yes.
"Can I Get Away From Aces Here? | Ask SplitSuit
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The title is kinda misleading.....Hero Shoves Flop....soooo........what is he "Getting away" from exactly????
4 people call a 8x BB raise with that trash yeah right...
a little larger than 8x the big blind?????? I feel like hindsight, he could have made it larger. but 8x repop is plenty big. if we knew this guy was gonna get crazy with 22s, than yea we should have made it bigger. but it cant really be considered a bad raise. cuz its fairly on the larger side
A play can be good, but not optimal. In this case it seems like 8x was certainly fine - but a larger size could have easily been more profitable in the longrun (as is often times the case in very inelastic dynamics)
I wouldn't call that "getting crazy." If SB knows the table is fishy that's a pristine set mining opportunity because his call is going to start the calling avalanche. Great opportunity to play set or jet, and being in first position is advantageous
I wouldn't call that "getting crazy." If SB knows the table is fishy that's a pristine set mining opportunity because his call is going to start the calling avalanche. Great opportunity to play set or jet, and being in first position is advantageous because you'll probably get to check raise.
I'd just go all on preflop and hope to get one caller lol
Thought you werent doing cooler hands anymore I can't see how hero played it wrong.
+MrLucidLJ Andy asked a good question about SPR changes from HU > MW pots. That's the only reason why I did this hand since there was strategic value in that conversation.
+James (SplitSuit) Oh OK fair enough and I don't think raising to 20 pre flop makes any difference to the result you said he should have raised to that amount it makes spr smaller but nearly everyone called good video though wish you do more :)
+MrLucidLJ agreed...$20 just generates more value =) If you can find a way to clone me, I'll find a way to make more videos =P
+James (SplitSuit) I remember less then a year ago you were doing a few videos a week guess your more busy these days. And do we look too polarised with raising 20 like if we want to raise bluffs and middle pair hands do we do the same amount.
+MrLucidLJ i think as long as your capable of raising the same amount in the same spots with Aq/ak amongs other hands(within reason of course), then you're limp attack range is more balanced and not just nuts.
8x BB haha lololololo
on 1:40 its 134/80 not 80/134
You are 100% correct - good eye!
I don't think this is relevant to the way poker is being played now. If you make the call, instead of the shove, and SB bets half their stack then we're left with a massively negative EV if we call. Unless you know the table well enough to believe that SB is a Aggretard that will spew with middle pair, you're more often dead here than not.
But when hero makes their decision they don’t know that the SB is going to check raise.
If hero calls and then SB calls you could be letting either SB or BB catch up for almost nothing.
rasing 8 blinds and get that many callers. i rather play slower and lose the min than to blindly shove just because the PSR tells me to. I'd probably raise to $50 or $60 to represent strength and shows commitment to the pot, then fold to the shove from SB, because at this point i got enough info to consider my hand beat, saving 50% of my money (consider that a win!). if SB has a draw, thats alot of risk to take with a draw in a multi way pot.
Interesting idea but if you raised to $60 there's a few problems. One is you're giving them really good odds to realise their equity. Two is that if you got shoved on you'd have to call about $75 into $275 meaning to break even you'd need 21% equity. AA will always have 8% even against sets so you need to make up say 15-16% to beat the rake and be profitable. Third is that it does look like you don't want to be shoved all in. Some players may attempt some kind of flush draw semi bluff in that spot making your point two equity even higher. You're only not getting the equity vs sets but everything else including aggressively played flush draws (or less likely straight draws), two pair and overpairs you're getting the equity. Not an easy fold. Including all that with point one and I think the shove is a better choice.
*****
It wasn't an idea, simply. I'd play exactly the way i described given that amount of callers and given there is another player acting behind after flop. Without focusing on the gritty calculations, the point I'd like to maintain is that yes there is a way to fold this hand and save money. The raise preflop and the raise post flop should show enough commitment without shoving and still have a way out. Yes, the raise to 60 or even 75 can be read as weak, only if one thinks pocket aces is the best hand always post flop, which it isn't. Here the focus is on SPR and such, and not much on the players. Fair enough, but in my live games, having a good read on the players, playing aggressive while leaving room for exit is better than always committing to the hand. (Believe me, I was in this situation before, vs 3 ppl going all-in, two was on draws, one had a set, who I put on top pair trying to be aggressive. I had to catch the one Ace that didnt complete a draw to win a huge pot. Bad read, good luck, that's it, and it wasn't long before I went broke. To continue playing, I learned to read ppl better.)
MugenTJ It's always good to have a plan B in these situations so who knows maybe your version is better. I still would find it difficult to fold if I got shoved on. I wouldn't be super happy with calling but I also equally wouldn't like folding so... idk it just feels gross either way. I'm pretty sure the shove is +EV here so for me I'll probably just stick to what I believe is profitable. If you have really good reads on people though I guess you could stick in a little probe bet but the fold is still a tough one. Thinking your likely beat is one thing but when you need
*****
As said, I only found myself folding AA in one other situation, vs 5,6 callers. it turned out to the the best hand to the river (cause my read wasn't good). So you are right, generally, I have to be spot on in order to fold AA. These days, Im more likely to get a bad beat from making a good call than making a bad fold or bad call. In any case, have fun grinding!