Combat in Breath of the Wild Could Be Better
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- Опубликовано: 30 янв 2025
- I go over the problems with Breath of the Wild's melee combat and propose a new system that would fix those issues.
Videos mentioned in order of appearance:
4:10 Monster Maze - The SWORD COMBAT in Breath of the Wild could use some work • The SWORD COMBAT in Br...
11:37 Patch Quest - Why Monster Hunter World's Combat is so Satisfying • Why Monster Hunter Wor...
37:25 videogamedunkey - Witcher 3 : Wild Guy • Witcher 3 : Wild Guy
43:13 Joseph Anderson - Breath of the Wild - Not Enough Zelda • Breath of the Wild - N...
44:24 gamekiller346 - The Witcher 3 - Killing Monsters, Combat & Free Roam Gameplay • Video
49:03 Game Maker's Toolkit - How Game Designers Protect Players From Themselves • How Game Designers Pro...
Other references:
Arlo - A Big Fat Review of Breath of the Wild • A Big Fat Review of Br...
Matthewmatosis - Breath of the Wild Review • Breath of the Wild Review
The Duke of Dorks - Improving Breath of the Wild • Improving Breath of th...
BIGBMH - How to Improve Combat in The Legend of Zelda • How to Improve Combat ...
ScottFalco - The Legend of Zelda with a side of salt (Breath of the Wild) • The Legend of Zelda wi...
Fudj - Brad Gushes Over Breath of the Wild for 40 Minutes • Storytelling and Breat...
Game Maker's Toolkit - What Makes a Good Combat System? • What Makes a Good Comb...
Game Maker's Toolkit - The Psychological Trick That Can Make Rewards Backfire • This Psychological Tri...
Songs used in order of appearance (all from BotW unless otherwise specified):
0:17 Breath of the Wild Main Theme
0:59 Parasailing Minigame
2:15 Skyloft - Skyward Sword
4:43 Stone Talus Battle
10:21 To Those Alive - Monster Hunter Tri
12:39 Monk Maz Koshia Battle
18:26 Hateno Village Day
23:40 The Final Trial
32:13 Attack on Vah Medoh
35:42 Attack on Vah Ruta
43:13 Tarrey Town Married
46:53 Molduga Battle
53:25 Hyrule Castle Exterior
59:11 Rito Village Day
1:01:16 Attack on Vah Naboris
1:03:42 Breath of the Wild Main Theme
Credits:
Harrison: Editor. This video would be much longer if not for your help and I'm sure the viewers greatly appreciate that. Check him out here: / kleinlantern
DarkSun: Graphics assistance, general feedback. Thanks for spending way more time contributing than you needed to.
Zino: Acting, general feedback, Cameraman. Thanks for listening to my yammering for the better part of a year and helping me sort out all my ideas.
big e: Cameraman, minor feedback. Thanks for filming even you didn't want to, I really appreciate it.
TheSplashKing: Actor. You were maybe a little too eager to use the big sword to smack me, but we got the shot so that's all that matters.
Freddy: Actor. Thanks for helping on such short notice, I couldn't have gotten that shot without you.
Sambobsung: Cameraman, Resident Monster Hunter. Thanks for helping with the Kirin, you saved me a lot of grinding time. I'll play some more Monster Hunter with you to pay you back.
My Dad: Minor editing. Thanks for helping despite not knowing anything about video games.
Folke: Minor feedback. Thanks for the help, no matter how small. You were the only one who helped when I asked.
Bum: Indirect feedback. You may not have directly contributed, but your comments really helped my analyze my work much more closely and make sure my ideas were solid. I eagerly await your inevitable comment.
Gyga: Minor ideas. Thanks for the help, even if it was a joke, it still worked out.
You: Watching and reading the credits. I'm sorry it took so long for this video to come out, at least I got it out before Age of Calamity and BotW 2 came out and made changes. Normally this is when RUclipsrs would promise to upload more frequently but I can't do that. The only reason I made this video is that is was a subject that I was passionate about since BotW is a game that's affected me unlike any other, so I can't promise I'll have the same motivation for future projects any time soon. This channel clearly doesn't have any consistency when it comes to content so my next video could be about anything. If you've been subscribed for the last four years, then an extra thank you for being so patient, even if you forgot you were subscribed.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Man imagine running down a dirt, rock, and grass hill presumably 20 times just for an intro. Also did you seriously break your bed in that outro? Cringe. Wait who's your twin? For changes, i suggest removing all attacks from the game except flurry rushes, as they are objectively the greatest addition to any game. Also all weapons shouldn't break ever, you should just get a huge backlog of random weapons from your travels. Anyways, tldw unsubbed and disliked
Flurry rushes are the single most broken addition to any game. They're easily spammable and can kill most enemies very quickly enemies have no defense against the attack and the timing is completely inconsistent.
I would love to run through a beautiful grass hill like that
I don’t know why a man going outside upsets you but I too hate the idea of removing flurry rush and dislike the durability system
Holy crap, an hour of this? Sign me up. :D
"In Monster Hunter, players can stay back and evade, staying in the enemy's blind spots, or play aggressively and attack whenever an opening shows itself." As an insect glaive user, I prefer to take both of these options simultaneously. XD
I heavily agree with the enemy animations making reading the animations more of a problem than it should be. I also find that some enemy attacks have such an excessive wind-up that they feel unnatural and become more frustrating to time well just due to how little sense the motion makes, such as an enemy taking way too long to fall out of the sky during an attack. It’s okay for enemies to deliberately vary the timing of a move, but the wind up and follow through still need to feel somewhat natural for what they’re trying to do, or it just feels like nonsense and you wind up having to ignore most of the animation and focus only on the amount of time between the swing and the hit.
Also agree on the problem with flurry rush and parrying. Even at a simple level, the flurry rush just gets boring after a while because it’s always the same thing over and over again, and the parry felt so toned down after Skyward Sword’s OP parry that the flurry just felt like the better option in almost every situation.
The heavy+light attack option works really well in my experience because it gives you a lot of influence over one of the most important elements in combat - time. Light attacks let you jab at the enemy while maintaining a better defensive position, allowing you to test how much time you get on an opening, or test an enemy's defenses before committing to a longer assault, where heavy attacks are there for when you know you're ready to hit hard. It thrusts the player into the attack->evade rhythm right from the start and makes it feel natural.
At first I wasn't sure about the timing/reversal system because PSO2 uses that timing in its Just Attack system and they're actually removing that feature from the sequel as it ends up being more of a distraction and an arbitrary skill gate, but when you add in the actual, physical reversal of an attack, that changes things a lot. Instead of having just a simple perfect attack mechanic, you'd have a mechanic that could easily work very differently for different enemies and weapons, providing a ton of inventive combat options. :)
That stealthy dagger type weapon could also do way more damage on counterattacks or fully exposed weak points to make it effective as a main combat weapon assuming you’re specializing in that style of play. Also, Dante has a move called Dance Macabre that does that baseball bat finisher you described.
Overall, I think tying the extra combat mechanics to weapons like this is a great alternative to giving the moves to Link. Applying all these changes to enemies, however, is the thing I agree with the most. I hate that high level enemies behave more or less exactly like their bumbling subordinates and really want to see more enemies performing competent-looking attack animations like Thunderblight and Maz did. Those attack animations are the main reason why they’re fan favorites, because they feel like competent opponents. They could create incredibly diverse variations in the basic enemy types with these changes, making the battlefield a far more interesting place. :) There’s other stuff they need to adjust in the game but this comment is TLDR as it is. XD
An awesome video that deserves way more attention. My favorite idea by far is making the AI 'remember' your attack patterns.
How the fuck this has less than 1k views and you don't have above 500k subs?
Awesome video and you put my toughts about the combat into words. Keep up the great work man.
A video? From you? This was a pleasant surprise
Haha, I certainly kept you waiting!
Absolutely incredible. Your changes would be a very welcome addition to make BOTW much more of an action game. Your ideas really reminded me of games like Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance and Doom Eternal, specifically in terms of light and strong attacks (MGRR), and weapon usage (DE). The crafting weapon idea sounds amazing, as I thought of several ideas from just that alone! Keep up the incredible work!
Great video with an obvious shit-load of work put in; it's always great to find long-form Zelda content. That being said, I do have problems with some things that were said. Being upfront, I'm a longtime Zelda fan, but BotW is not one of my favorites, and some of what I'll say is because of personal preference (which I'll try to note). And sorry for the length, but I figure you'd prefer it to a post that says "first!" or "wow, it's an hour-long video".
You say that traditional Zelda combat is "too simple to be fun" (2:57). I think I understand what you were trying to convey, but it's a little disingenuous to say that a simple combat system is inherently unfun and use that as a way to dismiss its value. I think if it were so objectively unfun there wouldn't be fans of the combat systems from TP or WW, nor would there be people asking for hidden skills from Twilight Princess to return. I wouldn't be surprised if, for some people, the simple combat system of traditional Zelda is a comforting experience given that so many games do try to create mechanically complex combat.
On the topic of those Hidden Skills, you first say "...Link would be left with an incomplete moveset that you have acquire" and then go on to say "... if you think that starting with all the moves (Hidden Skills) would not be fun, then maybe the moves are only fun because you have to earn them." Personally, I don't enjoy starting with everything and it's one of my major problems with BotW, but my issue with this idea is that it implies that if you don't like the idea of removing the sense of progression felt by unlocking new abilities, then the abilities themselves are boring or bad.
If I were able to use all Hidden Skills at the start of TP, I would miss out on so much. Acquiring and using them feels so good and discovering previous encounters that now have a completely different way of tackling them is amazing. Going through Hyrule Castle, blitzing through enemies because I went out of my way to unlock these skills feels amazing because I made it so. It wasn't just a part of Link's base kit. But even so, the abilities themselves are just fun outright. Mortal Draw is immensely satisfying, Back Slice changes how you deal with harder / larger groups of enemies (not just Darknuts), and Shield Attack is so great that you even use it in your redesign of BotW combat. It's all about that sense of progression.
And while I like the idea of increasing Link's base damage / defense / agility, I think it would be better suited to a second system that exists outside of spirit orbs. IMO, it should probably function like the Spirit Gems from Phantom Hourglass. It could replace some copy-paste Korok Seed puzzles with something a little more complex.
(4:31) "Breath of the Wild's combat is better than all previous games..." For some people. This is not an objective fact of BotW.
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That being said, after hearing all of your ideas for a more involved combat system, I do like most of them. Less dominant strategy, less hoarding, and more versatility. One of the few downsides is that it would make BotW feel incredibly combat focused with the level of depth presented here. With that so, I think having the ability to not engage with the combat and still be able to "button mash" actually detracts from the experience since it would mean that players technically don't have to learn anything or engage with the fun part of what you created.
Sometimes restricting the player's "freedom" creates a more engaging experience.
Thanks for the comment, I appreciate the feedback! I like getting long comments so no problem there, this response is quite long as well!
When I say things like "too simple to be fun" and "better than previous games" subjectivity is implied as this video would have been much longer if I prefaced all my opinions with "I think" or something equivalent. That being said, I can at least elaborate on my points, if that helps.
In the case of "too simple to be fun" I mean that the combat gets repetitive over long stretches of gameplay. The simplicity of the combat makes creativity difficult due to the limited options, so players fall into very predictable patterns and their abilities are very rarely tested in interesting ways. More complicated systems allow developers more chances to make interesting challenges with well designed enemies but also more option for player expression and experimentation.
I can appreciate people enjoying simple game mechanics for being comforting, but if people like the traditional Zelda combat, they can always go back to previous games. BotW has already blown the door wide open for changes and updates to the system, including addition of mechanical complexity, so I'm just suggesting ideas that improve on their goals for the game mechanically and thematically (in my opinion, of course).
If you don't enjoy starting with all the moves, that's something that we're likely going to have to agree to disagree on. I can understand why unlocking moves is satisfying, as well as the appeal of getting to use a cool move as a reward, but making attack moves unlockable as well as optional has negative side effects on the combat. You can get away with making moves unlockable if they are mandatory like in Metroidvanias, but if you make them optional, you can't assume that the player will have the moves at any point in the game so you can't design enemies around their existence. Darknuts in Windwaker can have their armour sliced off by using parries, which allows you to fight them head-on, because the game knows that you always have the ability to parry. In Twilight princess, the helmsplitter and the backslice are functionally the same as the parry in Windwaker but there are no enemies with designs that really compliment them as the player isn't guaranteed to have the moves at any point in time. You can use it to kill stuff like darknuts more easily but it just registers as a normal hit and only serves to speed up the fight a little. If you started the game with moves like the helmsplitter already unlocked, you could have enemies that require you to master the technique to take them down, or at least produce more interesting results from using the move on some enemies because you know that the player already has the move (think weak spot gets exposed or enemy changes combat style or simply that those moves are the only way to damage the enemy).
BotW actually does something similar with the flurry rush and parry since you start with the ability to perform the techniques but the game just doesn't initially teach you how to use them. The "unlocking" portion comes from performing it accidentally or from meeting someone who tells you how to do it. You can still have a similar sense of progression, but it also allows the game to make enemies that are designed around the moves (guardian lasers, lynels, ganon fights) and for returning players to immediately start using them to their advantage. I don't believe restriction makes for better player engagement in this case since returning players will feel weighed down by the inability of their character. Imagine if you had to unlock the parry and flurry rush in BotW. If they were still required to beat Ganon, then players would just have to waste time picking them up every file and starting a new file would just make Link feel incomplete. Make character progression tied to other things like heart increases and so on, but a skill based combat system is best built on player improvement, not character improvement. Then improvement is more personalized depending on which lessons you learn, and is arguably earned in a more satisfying way with personal skill development instead of checklist filling.
Your reasoning for having the Twilight Princess skills being unlockables basically boils down to "it feels satisfying because I unlocked it and the moves look cool", which is fair, but you can still have still satisfying unlockable rewards from another sources, cool looking attack moves, and a mechanically engaging combat system with integrated enemy design at the same time. Plus, if the moves are so satisfying by themselves then that shouldn't diminish if you start with them (does flurry rush still feel cool?). BotW is aiming for player freedom and exploration, so putting moves behind unlocks just arbitrarily removes freedom and trades it for dopamine hits the first time the game tells you that you can use a move now because you met a requirement, frustration all following times you play through the game, and shifting of skill development from the player to the Link the character.
The reason I like tying other upgrades to spirit orbs is that it makes them more immediately useful because you can charge less per upgrade. Instead of having to do 4 shrines before you receive any tangible reward, you only have to do 3 or even 2 but this one is much less important than the actual combat stuff, admittedly.
I'm not super thrilled about making button mashing an option, but that's to make sure the game isn't too unapproachable. However, I still don't think the button mashing will allow players to bypass my system and it actually serves to teach players a good lesson about the enemy AI. Button mashing will work on lower level enemies, but higher level ones will learn your mashing pattern and punish you for it, so players will eventually be forced to get better if they want to progress in tougher areas. The bow combat and other systems like stealth and item traps are still really good and viable alternatives and/or compliments to combat, so I don't think an increase in complexity will make the game too combat focused. The idea is just to make the game a little more in-depth with combat and then create enemies that can really challenge the player if they decide to really attempt to master the combat system. You could already argue that enemies like Lynels are too combat-focused since there's only really one way to deal with them, but plenty of players get along just fine by avoiding them and that will remain an option even with my changes.
Thanks again for your great comment, I hope this clarifies things a little!
I'm late to the party but the learning AI would be cool if paired with the blood moon. If all the enemies you killed come back and know your fighting style it would mean you'd have to change your fighting style against that enemy everytime you return to an area after blood moons
And then I got further into the video and you already suggested that
Even without the blood moon aspect, a learning AI would be a massive improvement.
I strongly dislike the idea of removing the flurry as it’s link special ability as a champion
Other than that and a couple other things I really like the new ideas they sound way more fun
Yo, your TI-84 Dungeon crawler evolved a bunch man. You went open world? Bold move, the graphics look incredible btw.
Plus the way Link fights in Age of Calamity with being flashy makes you wonder why Link can't slaughter everyone in his way in BOTW with ease like a god lol.
Here in 2023. Letting you know that Tears of the Kingdom has the same problems with combat if I understand your video correctly.
You can easily incorporate spamming attacks with flurry rush, you don't wait for attacks at all and you don't have to knock them away and follow them either.
The different melee weapons don't offer anything to the game. The full powered master sword pretty much trumps all of them based on high tier damage and permanent reuse without having to go out and find high tier weapons.
The twilight princess sword tech would have definitely been a welcome addition, being able to roll around a target and strike would have been a far more balanced tactic than what flurry rush does simply for the facts that you only strike once and you don't get invincibility, the rolling stab will also be sorely missed from tp. Being able to roll under high horizontal attacks and strike feels more organic than getting instant invulnerability from an attack because you simply dodged in the right direction. The finisher also would have been nice and wouldn't encourage me to awkwardly delay attacks all the time, yet would still be risky among crowds and require thought on when to use it based on AI patterns within a crowd. I also wouldn't mind the strong jump attack, I think botw's variant in relying on height for more damage doing it is awful design and serves as a weak surprise attack that just risks you getting injured.
You are also wrong in that previous Zelda games only had 1 weapon type. Tp itself had the ball and chain and majora's mask had forms with all kinds of abilities that trump the weapon variety in botw, the goron can mow over crowds, has an aoe quake that could work the same way as two handers, and also has strong fiery punches that cannot pierce chuchus as a drawback. The zora has a magic stun shield, and side striking elbow blades that become stunning or damaging dual boomerangs. The deku scrub can shoot a random pathing magic bubble and has a quick evade that stuns the target. Inherently these forms also give more terrain mobility variety than what botw offers.
lol they should include a hunger meter like in Minecraft so people don't constantly abuse the healing system
This. Like a Skyrim survival mod so food will always be useful and players won't just spam potions.
Of course, including too many similar concepts from other games would make BotW or any game feel unoriginal. Plus, these systems work well within the games they were made for, but won't necessarily work so well in a game they were never intended to be a part of.
@@eziospaghettiauditore8369 I would argue that food is already more useful than potions anyway. Potions just boost a stat, but food boosts a stat _and_ refills hearts (and sometimes gives you bonus hearts). The only potion that's better than food is one that keeps you cool on Death Mountain. But even that becomes useless as soon as you get one piece of Goron armor. The rest can be acquired through armor as well. Swim speed, attack, defense, the various resistances, all of it. So food is always useful and always more so than potions. People who make and use potions are just wasting time and resources.
this is some very quality stuff. great video!
Here from the breath of the wild reddit, so glad i did
Great video Aeri!
OH MY GOD THE TIME HAS COME
i doubt you’ll see this comment, but i just want to say that you are one of the few people who can swing a sword in real life and not look like a massive idiot/nerd. some of those clips of you could be honestly be fight choreography for a LOTR movie or something
Why don't you make more videos i love your video
I'm... not quite sure what you mean by generous when you say the flurry rushes and parry opportunities are generous. I aim for the exact moment that the swing takes place every time, but the swing isn't advertised at all. I've played BotW, and it is impossible to consistently parry and flurry rush, and the ultimate cause is being at a stuttery 30 FPS giving inconsistent animation information to the eyes (compare: OoT which is designed for 30 FPS), not even considering the advertising issue. If the moment in which the attack takes place is in the middle of that 33 1/3 milliseconds, then you cannot time for it. It is physically impossible without higher FPS. If I weren't so lazy about setting up Switch or Wii U emulation, I'd just download the games and play them on my PC at 100Hz, and my frustration in that regard would be gone, but I'd just get bored out of my mind hitting things at a snails pace. Seriously, do the devs just lack common sense? Do they have like 500ms reflexes? That you can't get good if you try to match what you see on screen, but instead just don't bother and dodge well after an attack has occurred? Even guardian lasers are worthy of complaining about here. Try tracking it with how fast it goes frame by frame in a video. There just isn't enough information for you unless you're standing like 100 meters away and the camera's just right!
I literally have zero problems playing games at my monitor's native 100Hz refresh rate, or games that don't require reflex timings to play which do just fine at 30 FPS, or at least not with Halo Reach if my own skill and time put into it isn't indicative of that (you'll just have to take my word for it). I have never felt this much frustration before, let alone in a "Zelda" game, but as you pointed out, this series has always been primarily about puzzles, but even then, at least the combat was good enough that I didn't feel like I was being cheated. You can still clear a room of enemies in any true Zelda game with just a sword and shield easily without getting hit once, though it's still pretty flat and gets dull after a while. In hindsight, though, the combat in Zelda games has always been a means to an end, never front and center despite the master sword being a weapon on your person at all times, and a different sword before that, coupled with a shield.
Smash Bros Brawl combat in a 3D open world RPG wen
Hey Aeri, it's been a long time since I've heard anything from you. In case you don't remember me, I spoke with you on Skype about your ti-84 work after I left an email address in one of your videos.
Though I have not played all of the games that you mentioned in the video, I do think that Zelda: Breath of The Wild could be made more interesting with many of the additions that you suggested. I personally thought that your idea about two specific attack buttons and timing the swinging back of swords was interesting. I also agree that flurry rushes are too overpowered (especially because they often don't punish you for not being perfect with your timing due to the dodge itself) and I think that parries are generally not worth the risk for the reward (except perhaps with guardians; I almost never used parries because I wasn't a very hardcore player and I noticed that the window for error was larger and it could result in me taking damage).
I admit that I do not know nearly as much as you do about the game and I never played the DLCs, but it seems to me that most of the players are satisfied with the current state of the game, and though these changes could be interesting and fun, they would apply to a different fanbase, not one of the puzzle-like game that Zelda games seem to often be. I also think that there would not be enough pressure from the playerbase to implement these changes because many people want to casually play the game and they wouldn't care for the complex attack mechanics and sequences.
I think that another nice addition could be more variable difficulty settings with changes to the AIs of enemies as well. If some enemies are too difficult to beat at high difficulties, children could simply play at lower difficulties in which AIs are simpler or enemies just have less health. It might also be nice to have an "advanced" difficulty setting in which a player can choose different variable to alter to suite their desired playstyle, such as enemy health modifiers, speed, and enemy intelligence.
I also liked the nice view at the beginning, the humor with the bed, and the swordsmanship demonstrations (if they could be called that). Do you have a twin brother, or was that some _really_ fancy editing?
If you're available at some time it might be interesting to talk over Discord or something else; though I'm still in high school, I'd be interested to hear how your studies are going or went.
P.S. You said "electrocute" when "shock" would have been the correct word. To electrocute means to kill something with electricity, while the shocking in BoTW doesn't necessarily kill something.
Electrocute does not necessarily mean kill
Hello based department, I'd like to file a claim
Another argument against this being "too complicated" is that the game came out in 2017. Games that came out before 2017 already had more complex battle systems than BotW. "It's too complicated"? No, BotW's combat is just simple. Not that its simplicity is necessarily bad. Being able to completely destroy monsters without much effort feels good. But only sometimes, and it gets boring fast.
That's exactly the reason why I find it hard to stay engaged in the Assassin's Creed series. There are a few different attacks _all_ enemies will perform, depending on the type of weapon they're using, and you can respond in several ways depending on the type of weapon you're using. But before you're even halfway through the game, you've already experienced every combination and finisher the game has to offer, making combat a chore. Again, it's nice to be able to destroy enemies without much effort, but only sometimes, and that fun only lasts so long before the combat becomes boring again.
As I said before, simplicity isn't bad, to a point. But a system that forces players to either git gud or fail isn't a good enough reason to get rid of the simplicity. In theory, the system you propose still allows players to play a simple game, but in practice it actually punishes them for not being good enough to take on most enemies. You may not know this, but enemies get progressively harder even without defeating any Divine Beasts. If you wait long enough, red bokoblins will be replaced with blue ones, blue ones with black ones and black ones with white ones. Same with every other enemy type. Also, following your suggestions, the Blight Ganons would require a non-simple game plan to defeat.
This means that players who don't want to play more than a simple game will inevitably be forced to either learn the battle system and develop complex strategies or only attack blue enemies and avoid all bosses, which in turn would mean that not only will these players never acquire Champion abilities, they'll also never beat the game. And on the topic of blue enemies, once red enemies vanish it's actually very rare to find camps or forts that have _only_ blue enemies. Most have black or white enemies too, which means that a player like I've mentioned would never be able to clear a camp and would always be under threat.
Of course, the easiest solution is to just give players a simple way to defeat every enemy of every skill level. But while it's not a _bad_ thing for players to have an easy out if they simply cannot defeat a certain enemy or boss, it also creates a situation where the entire alternate battle system loses its purpose. Some people would stick with the system and develop their own combat style (myself included), but I expect many more would use the plain and simple system that ultimately gets them the same results (ie. defeating enemies and bosses).
I think the best way to accomplish the complexity you're going for without overwhelming anybody is to gradually introduce the various mechanics and require players to make use of them to complete relevant trials (akin to the runes and shrines on the Great Plateau), but also include the ability to skip the process altogether so returning players can get right into the game. Honestly though, I think adding even just a few of the mechanics you mentioned would be an improvement, such as intelligent AI and various weapon types having different effects. Like, even if the animation didn't change and Link stayed put and all the rest, just for heavy blades being able to break wooden shields vs. clubs knocking shields away; changes like that would be a massive improvement.
Considering that the battle system you suggest reflects real sword combat, I think the inclusion of dojos or training centres would be appropriate. Something like the Clock Town dojo in MM or the less official one on Outset in WW. Places you can go to practice the basics. To keep them relevant, the instructor could increase their level as you get better. How exactly that would work, I don't know. But I think the mere existence of even a single dojo would feel appropriate.
But BotW's combat doesn't need to be as complex as suggested. In fact, it probably shouldn't. Bringing it up to the level of Monster Hunter and the like isn't horrible for gamers like you and me, and as you said, even kids can master such deep systems. But at the end of the day, BotW was meant to be accessible to a wide audience that extends beyond people like us. While young adults and kids might find a more complex system fun, engaging and ultimately rewarding, older people might not. You know, the ones whose reflexes aren't as sharp and who take more time to learn even the simple stuff. Same with casual gamers who only play games like New Super Mario Bros. and Wii Sports.
That's why the game is so lenient when it comes to dodging and parrying, and why flurry rush is so all-encompassing. That's also why most weapons act the same way and why most enemies and bosses attack the same way. BotW was intended to draw in a larger audience who might otherwise not play a Zelda game or RPG, or _any_ game for that matter.
The sequel is supposed to be more complex and cater more to people like us. At least, that was the original intention. I've been actively avoiding any news of it for the last year or two, so all I know is that it's set in the same world and called The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom.
Awesome comment, thanks for posting!
I suppose I should have clarified my intentions for the combat system a little better in the video. I am certainly meaning to make it more complex with some options for players with less skill but that isn't for the purpose of allowing them to skip over challenges. I mean for high level enemies to punish players for not being great at the system and force them to improve. While this does remove the simplicity of the game, I think it's still very much for the better.
I am aware of the enemies becoming more "difficult" throughout the course of the game through the hidden XP system but I think it's poorly done. Higher level enemies are basically the same as low level ones with more health, but I'm arguing they should be smarter rather than beefier. Making them explicitly harder to defeat does force players to get better at the combat system if they want to defeat them in a direct fight (instead of just getting better gear), but the point is that you already don't have to do that in regular BotW because you can resort to stealth or sniping or avoiding enemy camps. Since I'm suggesting that the overall health of enemies (including the strong ones) gets lowered, players will still have options if they don't want to learn how to fight, but will likely just choose to run away from enemies as in the current game.
Players who use the button mashing technique I left available will see some success early on, but will eventually be forced to improve. It only works as an option early game before they become aware of the full breadth of the combat system. The Blights should be more difficult as well to act as proper tests of the player's fighting ability since the point is very much to make them develop complex strategies for combat over time.
While I do think this will theoretically make the game less approachable, I don't think it matters because the beginning of regular BotW is already so difficult for new players that the many people who progressed past it are clearly willing to accept challenging situations. I think the challenge and danger presented on the plateau is the best part of the game and I think it's a shame that it gets so much easier over time. I'm not the only one who thinks this, just look at all the people who think Eventide Island is one of the best parts of the game because it robs you of all the items that make Link stronger but not the player better. I'm using this increase in difficulty to extend the challenge later into the game at a similar rate that it already progresses (minus the player's huge defense increase), but with higher heights. The current player progression begins as purely skill-based on the plateau but then switches to almost entirely gear-based from there onwards, and a more complex system would remedy that.
I don't think that the players should be introduced to it slowly either. The current game doesn't explicitly introduce the flurry rush or the parry until Kakariko but players who already know about it can still use it before that and I think that should be the case even with a more complex system.
Though I compared it to monster Hunter, I actually don't think it's even all that complicated. The majority of the complexity comes from the addition of many new objects and interactions to combat rather that technical difficulty and mechanical complexity and the game already has so many hidden interactions that this isn't a problem. There's still only two attack buttons and combo trees are super basic, so I don't think it will be any more overwhelming to players than the current system likely appears to new players. I think that, since the scope of the system wouldn't be explained at the beginning of the game (much like it isn't currently), new players wouldn't realize what they were getting into and would organically be introduced to weapons and mechanics as they progressed so the system wouldn't seem intimidating at all. If my whole system was made aware to players immediately, I think it would scare many people away, but if you don't tell them about it and introduce it over the course of the game, people will realize it isn't so scary after all.
However, I think your idea for a dojo is a good one! An area where the game does explicitly mention all the mechanics is a great idea when there are much more of them. I think it would be very interesting if there was a dojo for each weapon type and they would all explain different parts of the system in addition to the weapon in question. For example, the greatsword dojo could talk about breaking shields, the arming sword dojo could talk about parries, the mace dojo could talk about reversal timings, and so on.
I hope this manages to clarify a little.
Thanks again for your comment, I really appreciate it!
so you want the button a to be also a heavy attack
amazing video. very underrated.
Your video is great, that's all I have to say.
Wanna mod?
correction: Intentional Combat in Breath of the Wild Could Be Better
YOU DID A NEW VID!
It's been 2 years since this video was posted.
(At the time of this comment)
Does this video still reflect your views?
Great question, and the answer is yes! I've listened back to it a few times since posting it over the past few years as the ideas fade from my mind and I find that I still agree even when I approach it from an outside perspective. While I'm confident no one at Nintendo has seen this video, I still hope they manage to come up with some of these ideas independently and implement them into Tears of the Kingdom.
this video is way too long. I love the premise but holy fuck man an hour?
Wind Waker had better combat, and it was made 20 years ago
Finally someone with some sense man the combat is pretty boring in breath of the wild
If BotW had the combat of Fromsoft games, it would be absolutely perfect. But alas, the combat is very convoluted and cumbersome.
Good job on the vid, can tell it took a while, however this offends me lol. The combat is amazing imo, coming from a botw combat freak lmao
Haha, it's only been out for two minutes! Don't get me wrong, I think it's alright, but it could certainly use improvement. Just watch the video and you'll see what I mean.
lol