Star Citizen's Latest Server Meshing Test Was WILD!
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- Опубликовано: 10 окт 2024
- CIG has run Server Meshing test E for Star Citizen! 2000 players in a shard! They are definitely making progress, but there are still lots of things to work out before we get to 4.0!
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It's kind of fun to see that with 800 players, the problem is in-universe infrastructure. I always thought that such things were overdesigned for capacity. Turns out we need more ASOP terminals and elevators. Pretty cool.
Yeah it's fun problem to have in some ways! I guess this is only an issue when the shard first starts up, but it's still going to need some sort of solution.
@@tenpoundfortytwo Definitely, still problems to sort out, but I feel like this shows genuine progress with the tech.
That's why I think it was hilarious with people whining about there being too many of those item retrieval screens...like boy, there aren't ENOUGH of them 😂
at least we dont need a million asops when everybody gets their own hangar
I think it shows that the asop terminals are actually a bad idea. More should be done via either mobiglas or onboard ship terminals. I want to be able to do shopping etc through them instead of standing in line behind people to buy weapons or ammo. Let us put in an order and pick it up from the cargo elevator.
Remember that the congestion at the asop/elevator will only happen when they start the server, with 1000 players waiting to get in at once. This isn't a normal situation where everyone is playing and servers don't go down.
While agree with the sentiment, that doesn't mean these congestion issues should be ignored.
Massive amounts of players logging in at the same time is not uncommon in MMOs.
So this is still a problem that has to be fixed.
@@brickstonesonn9276 I am all for improving it. I know CIG is aware of the issue because they wrote about it on Spectrum, and it isn't part of the SM test. (they choose to use an unmodified 2.24.0 intentionally).
@brickstonesonn9276 that and also when they run events a ton of people will be in one place. Blockade runner, siege of orison etc etc
Spawning in your persistent hangar for the first time. Tackles both the congestion issue and the issue people have with needing to travel through the city each time they log in for the first time. You may have to wait a bit for the hangar doors to open if you're in a line of people looking to do the same, but that's not so bad since you can do stuff in your hangar now with your ships, cargo and items in the meantime.
@@brickstonesonn9276 Its also not uncommon for players to intentionally crash servers. The question is how much is too much ? I really dont see why there has to be 1000 players in one area. If there is a overflow of players, just stream them into a different DGS. Only match players who are in the same party together in the same DGS. Otherwise keep the limit down to 500 players in a given area for the time being. That is my oppinion. As soon as 2 players want want to meet up. Have them join a party together and allow the game to stream them in the same DGS and on the same shard once they meet together. But there is no reason we need 1000 players rendering at once on our screen. The game can barely take rendering torrets on a station all at once. Same with Bounty Missions. If there is a Bounty for a player on a Different DGS and shard, as soon as you make the mission your main bounty, have the game matchmake the players to a appropriate server that can handle the load.
Everything I saw yesterday was promising, but there is much to do. At this point, server meshing is proven, and all of those who said it could never work a decade ago have been proven wrong.
Yep it just needs to be tweaked and scaled up to fit the amount of players without the lag. I have no doubt they'll get it to the point where it works amazingly. The progress they've made just this year is nuts compared to how the network has been the last 12.
Lol, why does the fact that anyone who said anything matter? I dont get it. Is that supposed to be an intellectual remark. Consider that we have aircraft that are practically paper thin and they can pull 9+ gs, we have engineers working on cold fusion plasma reactors etc.. Why is this an argument on your mind? You can send messages or make phone calls that have a 60ms or less delay across the entire planet. Its not that it isnt feasible but that its not been done because no one has needed it done. But on that note Google has services that directly tie into multifaceted management of resources near instantaneously and in the multibillions. This is a microcosm in contrast. So again. What are you even saying?
@@jeremiahbond2810god damn bro went into a full on unhinged rant at nothing
2000 is a good start. If we're supposed to have these large multicrew ships, we need large numbers of people to crew them.
thnx for this amazing video, and i wanna add when it comes to possible 4.0/800cap, that you need to know that the 800 wont be concentrated in one system, personally i think the game can handle 400 or less and the associated services(transit,habs,hangers...etc) comes with those numbers in a single system, so we shall see, again thnx for your hard work 💗
That is a very good point- much more feasible to have 400 in Pyro and 400 in Stanton or something like that! Thanks for the kind words!
@@tenpoundfortytwo no thnx for you sir, the only professional technical content for SC on youtube ❤
@@tenpoundfortytwoHeck even 800 in Stanton might be fine when everyone 's actually out and about doing their own thing on different planets, moons, stations, belts, and what not.
I wonder if issues such as with 800 players can be worked around with smarter "matchmaking" - as in, each landing zone has its limits of capacity, and then when you select a specific landing zone, a "load balancer" will put you in a shard where the server associated with your selected landing zone has people below said limit. I wonder if that could also work more granularly, where instanced space ports are a thing.
That's a decent suggestion! Instanced space ports wouldn't be shocking either- though I wonder if CIG's push for immersion would mean that they would prefer to build something massive instead!
@@tenpoundfortytwo I would personally prefer something bigger in terms of space ports, probably with multiple "terminals" like most big airports. Especially with "commercial flights" already being hinted at current space ports, it would make sense to have multiple terminals if we are going to have NPC-traffic and players getting on regularly scheduled flights, flown by NPCs and stuff.
You're kind of getting into DSM at this point, which I can't wait for but might be a bit out past 4.0, hopefully they can get it done sooner rather than later.
@@lenowin Iirc Waka said that current meshing pushes past the origonal plan for 4.0 and that DSM wont be a big "bang" it will just slowly roll in, so we will have to see what happens.
We saw 2000 players in one shard. They couldn’t move or function but hey, they were in there
So cig considers that awesome
Let's see where they get to in the next couple of months!
@@tenpoundfortytwo I hope it’s better than the ptu right now. It’s horrible
It would be better to have 800 different things to do in the game rather than just be part of a big crowd of group think meshing aficionados that think it’s cool just to be packed in😂😂😂😂
@@saleseng yeah but they can’t file chapter 11 and then sell that to someone.
I really hope they settle on 4:500 and distribute the DGS loads in a way that allows for 25-30 Hz servers.
Yeah it's interesting that CIG have stopped testing the 4:500 shards in the last couple of tests. I guess maybe they have learned all they can for now from those numbers. But I agree, wouldn't be surprising if they came back down to 500 for 4.0.
@@tenpoundfortytwo what’s your guess on how Stanton and Pyro will be handled for 4.0? Will Stanton and Pyro be on the same shard sharing the same hybrid service?
@@XxTheodasxXtransfering hybrid service doesn't really work, same hybrid server meshing tech was needed for system transit to begin with
@@ironwarr I see.
I think more spawning areas outside Orison, Lorville, Area 18 and NB could help alot as lots of men have to share beds as soon as the server boots up
we need our asteroid hangers
weird, the 1000 player was rock solid for me
Yeah I saw that other people were having a pretty decent time- think Lorville let me down!
@@tenpoundfortytwo yea, thats where i was. very strange indeed. hopefully they got some valuable data, i look forward to the post mortem on it
Same here. Within the same shard, you'd have DGS that were running as well or better then live, but also DGS that were deadlocked and barely working.
2 big problems slowing down players leaving cities is terminals bricking perminantly, and elivators that simply won’t show your hanger button no matter how much you try. It seems you have to use the asops to claim a ship so the elevators allow you to go to your hanger.
I'm kinda suprized nobody thought to fix up some code in the terminals so people can properly use them in the SM test
Someone in the known says this is going to sill happen,until we get dynamic server meshing. Once they figure out the amount of players a server can hold, they will just start spinning up new servers for very transited zones, either as a layer over an existing location or to cover a small section of it.
the 1000 player test had such a wide array of expereiences. I ended up having a pretty solid experience on the 1000 test. made it to the hangar and got to fly around for a little bit before some issues but I was probably just very lucky lol. I wouldn't call this one a success from the backer side of things but I really hope they got some good data from all of this.
I didn't stay too long on the 800 player one but seemed to be working fairly well with some tweaks. I still think they HAVE to figure out addtional spawn locations because I just dont think these areas can handle the higher player counts.
Stanton is too small for 2000+ players, because they concentrate in the meaningful areas, like elevators, hospitals, spaceports and orbital stations.
May be when Pyro is up things will be better, but Ruined station is too small at the moment.
I also noticed a couple of takes from CIG where the wormhole had "Different colour" then the usual Pyro Vibes: the very whitish and spectral light makes me think of Nyx, which could come shortly after Pyro.
I think it might work if they had multiple different landing zones on each planet that functioned similarly to each other, maybe with their own bits of identity to help differentiate things. Right now, there just isn't enough space to really support it. Maybe for the planets which can support it, having more civilian NPC settlements, similar to the citizens for pyro in pyro scattered around with clinics and habs to be able to spawn somewhere more out of the way of the large spaces or to act as smaller landing zones? right now it just seems clear to me that one landing zone per planet might not cut it for cases where a larger number of people are in the same star system.
It's not too small. We don't have ownable habs nor do we have base building. Both of which will expand the current system. With the introduction of other systems 2000 players won't seem as much.
Cool now we actually start packing those space clubs
seems hybrid service and overall play is just a bit desynced but, getting better.
Among traffic management issues in the backend and among players. More than one elevator being a good idea, etc.
I wish they would do a test where they decide where players go, spreading players out across the system, keeping every server under 200 players and then letting players move about to and from organically, to see how the game behaves when 500 players are not shoved into a single server
With the current everybody stays on a single server because it’s so difficult just to get into space and out of your starting server
Yep that would be very interesting to see. I half expect them to let us select space stations as spawn points at some stage just to spread the load. But I guess there might be no one starting in the cities then!
@@tenpoundfortytwo That or they need to make other options at the cities to spawn at and places to land and take off from like private space ports you pay to use or make them reputation based.
They are meant to be multiserver shards that are visble to the player. Ie, two hundred people standing next to two hundred people split into two(many many more) servers simultaneously all the time. People crossing the respective server thresholds respectively. Each server handling their respective loads of information management.
@@jeremiahbond2810 yeah, but people can’t even make it out of the jab area. Getting in the first train is where most are having issues.
Want to hear something crazy? I have a new ship waiting for me in the game I purchased a year ago and I have absolutely zero desire to login and check it out.
I'm fairly sure they're going to end up having around 500-800 players for 4.0, and the question is around how many servers are going to be in use to split up both Stanton and Pyro. At those numbers, the infrastructure issues aren't probably going to be much of a concern after the launch day because after the big surge, people will spread out and then trickle in as normal, only causing problems at events like IAE.
1k players, 500 per system, would be ideal imo
Stanton isn't super clogged with 500 players.
The reason why the inventory asop didn't work is because this TP was running on a old build of 3.24 and those were not hotfixed yet.
12 of us where sent into space on a tram interesting indeed lol
Lorville tram
You should do a video on the AMD AFMF2 in the newest whql driver, it's surprisingly good. I limit my fps and it finally works with Radeon Chill, vulkan/dx for any game.
It's on my list! After CitizenCon I'll take a look!
Sever FPS seems higher this time than last, 7-10 fps better, An average of 27 with 653 players, The Net ping because everyone is logging in at once and pushing the same buttons five or six times in a row because they think it will make things work faster is what's causing the issues you see then. Everytime a player pushes a button it sends a server request, you can see it in peoples videos, they spawn, click for the elevator and because its not instantly there, they click and click and click again, same with spawning ships in hangers. "Server request, Server request, Server request, Server request, Server request, Server request, Server request, Server request" times a couple of hundred. The fact that server FPS is staying at an average of 27 while all of that is going on is a VERY good sign.
Thanks for the update!
No problem!
On thought on the infrastructure.
These tests basically spawn all the players at the same time.. in a long-running-persistent server that wouldn't be the case. Perhaps there is enough infrastructure already.
I'm a new comer to all the game, tbh I wished the universe would exist with being an MMO as well similar to witcher and elder scrolls games
Man i must say SC feels so much more engaging with 1000 peoples online
As soon as it’s in a decent place for release they’re going to announce a bathroom feature with real plumbing running through each ship and a waste management profession. This feature will be mandatory to perfect before release which will be in development for 2 years.
hopefully there is going to be a lot more serveurs in the end, and its stil static server meshing and not the dynamic one
there is a lot of work to do
thank you for the infos
Its ok, the trams and stuff like that will have its rework come with 4.0 unless things change along with atc
Yeah going to be very interesting to see what they do for the transit and mission refactors- hopefully they'll share some info soon/ at citcon.
Unfortunately the build CIG is using for the preview crashes on the loading screen for me. They did fix the issue in the latest PTU build. Wish I could try it today :(
Yep it's frustrating that they are using the 3.24.0 build- quite a few annoying issues in it!
1000+ was smooth for me. I do have a 5 GB connection, but I had no issues. Maybe it was your intel 14900k 😮😅 or your UK gov watching you play
5:50 don't really think it's a problem as you make it out to be. It's only in the beginning because people will spread out. You can tell because in 100 player servers it's always empty and I want it populated.
What a time to be alive!
I had data lag as GPU was overloaded. I reset my resolution and it went away. I dont know if that is directly the problem they are experiencing but id say it had a HUGE impact on my tech preview. I didnt play with 1000+ people directly but the overload was real because of GPU.
It'll probably work better when it's all DYNAMIC (at least then the load can be managed). :)
Hey at least the store is working fine. The store is the real game after all. Store Citizen.
They need to add stairs to all habs
I think that player collisions is waste replication data. CIG needs to make the data between servers that is replicated only be useful data. If you collide with another player a minute ago, the server may be seeing you fall off a ledge because of that and figuring out where your new position needs to be.
Ollie had the same problems LOL but he did get on with 1850 players the player count keeps going up
100 Systems @ 1,000,000 Players = 10,000 Players per System. IF 1,000 Players Per Server THEN 10 Servers per System if equally distributed.
100 Systems @ 5,000,000 Players = 50,000 Players per System. IF 1,000 Players Per Server THEN 50 Servers per System if equally distributed.
What happens at bottlenecks where 1 station has more than 1,000 Players at it? That Station will need to have more than 1 server handling it.
Each Server in a System will be replicating data between servers as players cross boundaries. This will be amazing to see run smoothly.
1. CIG should Remove Player Collisions so that the Replication of Collisions and pushing people does not cause waste data that serves no purpose being replicated. This is why World Of Warcraft and other MMO's does not use collisions between players.
Pigs will fly before we have 100 systems in Star Citizen.
Oh and Star Citizen will never have 5 million concurrent players. The most players in a game EVER was 3.25 million in PUBG. So on any given day we're probably more in the range of a million people. They will be divided by region as well; regardless of what Chris Roberts seems to think, Star Citizen can't escape the laws of physics.
Can I have what you're smoking? There's zero chance that ever happens.
Big challenge. No one in the history of gakmng has made server meshing. Let that sink in.
Its been done before.
We need 30 server fps constant, thats the most important thing. But we all know how good they are at getting things done besides timesinks and ships.... yeah they are not.
Let's go !!!!!!!!
permission to have goosebumps.
This wont be needed for Squadron 42 will it?
Nope! Thankfully!
Nope. Purely Singleplayer
How cost effective is that many servers for that many people? The 6:800 that is. Is that already less servers than a typical MMO not using this tech or is it more servers than say WoW or LOTRO?
A very good question- maybe cig will explain the costs at some point, but until they do, we're just guessing!
this is what I have said before, the issue here is these 6 servers are not the same as a single server, because these are VMs effectively on a much larger server, the cost for these 6 could actually be higher than having 800 on a single server or 6 smaller individual servers meshed together, I wouldnt know on this part because i dont deal with datacentre stuff, but would the experience be the same? more than likely no.
Its why I've said before this approach CIG are going for is simply not sustainable long term, server costs would eat into there monthly running costs, especially if they push for more for each star system, and god help the days when player count drops and revenue drops.
I get the approach but they really need to ditch going for a fixed value for a fixed number of players and use a dynamic system, this way its note wasteful and is more cost efficient. imagine a star system where there might only be 100 ish players. are they still going to use 6+ servers for the "potential" of maxing out the player count OR will this be dynamically controllable upon request.
@@123TheCloop The plan I believe was always to go Static Mesh first, and then Dynamic Mesh so I think they are of the same mind as you on this.
I saw a failing project and wrong mind about how to manage it
Let’s see that server fps
I think 500 is good enough, dont push it too quickly
I disagree on infrastructure bit. The problem you encountered only happens if everyone starts at the same time. Once game runs and people spread out this problem goes away.
If you look at actual infrastructure pieces operating in cities etc. They are fairly small for literally MILIONs of people. That's because not everyone at once needs to use something.
CIG, let's not fix collision in the game, in any way, then throw 1000 people into a server. Even two people in an elevator is dangerous in SC.
Considering all missions are disabled, so the server doesn't have to simulate the hundreds of missions it normally has to... I'm afraid this isn't gonna work.
6:00 4.0.X! .X!!!!! Not for 4.0 launch! Set your expectations appropriately!!!!
Good spot!
@@tenpoundfortytwo 😃
I'm not trying to dismiss this, however it is important to note that 3.24.2 is built on the 4.0 dev branch. It is possible that internally 3.24.2 is considered to be 4.0, and 4.0 is considered to be 4.0.x.
Pyro when?
nice now we can complain with 2000 players at once about master mistakes
Interesting but not promising for anything crazy big soon.
I guess 400-500 for 4.0
SC needs to get its optimization down. No ones gonna want to play a game that can’t consistently run right
You look like Jared with a thyroid problem.
The numbers are irrelevant. The game still unplayable. They need to cut down the scope and come up clean: Star citizen will never have these huge player counts without instancing. I will never be a better version of Eve.
First?
Congratulations
You seem in a hurry, are you new to SC ?
Two more years ! :)
@@yeawhateverdudesure name checks out :D
Wild? You mean a total failure?
It was a mess let's not tell lies.
Well, yes! But it was always likely to be at 2000! Still pretty impressive imo!
It will always be a mess until it is not; programming is coding, testing, iterating, and repeating.
Not a mess from the perspective of what the test was meant to do. Being unplayable doesn't mean it's bad in this context
It's a mess as gameplay however it's not a mess as data and progress compared to previous tests
@@ironwarr I completely agree; the goal is to find bottlenecks, fix bugs, and find the limits of the technology. They will push it beyond what it is capable of. This will give us a bad playing experience but a treasure trove of data for them.