what your missing is that there are alot of 95 quality rogues in 60 parsing quality guilds because thats the only spot they could get. So it very much is a real world scenario for some that "i beat my guilds hunters" because they best they will find are hunters of that skill level.
@@jasonu3741 Sadly parsing is mostly a thing that doesn't matter for guild performance - it's a number that grades you vs. other people of your class and not vs. the entire raid's performance. The real number that matters is overall dmg and the better the guild the less they care about your parse vs. actual overall dmg being the key. Single target has never been rogues weakness - it's always been our lack of overall dmg for trash due to long cleave CDs. The unfortunate truth is that a rogue with full 95s might only be roughly matching that warlock with 60-70 parses in overall dmg. And for every 'good parsing' rogue that also keeps up in overall dmg, there's far more that fall far behind due to the difficulties of overall dmg for rogues.
Easy with the “dad guild” stigma… I’m a dad, in a dad guild. We only raid twice a week and have been clearing kt vashj since week 2. World 34th (us 5th) for SSC execution, US 47th SSC for speed. And some other respectable scores. And we don’t even really try to hardcore anything or speed run … just the one trash skip after lurker just so we can get on with our lives, raid log to play FF or SoM, or do dad things. I get it’s a joke but you realize most of the demographic for this game is much older than you think, and at least on Bene… most of the top guilds here are Dad guilds. And just good gamers. The Dad thing is kind of a cop out.
Congrats on being the exception man (: not everyone is as qualified as your group. As a dad myself, I don't get any stigma from him talking about dad guilds, because we have more important stuff then being exceptional at wow. I'm sure many value working with the people they know more then being the best guild. Go get them stud (;
i know this might not be the most exciting comment, but thank u guys for continuing to put out quality wow content. i love this game and ill play it until they shut down the servers. it sucks that the content for it has fallen to the place it has but i enjoy seein the podcast pop up in my feed. (side note zirene is totally a riot plant to convert blizz fans haha)
As a person who's guild took 52 attempts on vashj b4 our first kill. And only got KT last week with 30+ pulls. Im so thankful they didnt go thru with the nerfs and let us get those true kills.
Attunements 1 per account... gah it is a pain with the multi alt'er. ... spend days waiting for a respawn... and it finally pops up and someone out of know where swoops in and tags/kill it and walk off without looting it.
People over-estimate how much trash there is in SSC and TK. You would basically have to remove entire sections of trash to have any noticable impact as far as giving people more time on bosses. For an average dad guild there's about 15 minutes of trash between each boss. That's about the same amount of time a failed Vashj/KT attempt takes to reset and go again.
Thing is, if it is too easy, it retracts from the value. Don't take away from quality and focus on objectives such as dead servers by merging/offering free xfers for those characters. Give them opportunity. My concern with nerfing the content is what will they do for next patch? They have to get good enough, or modify their strategy enough to take on the rest of TBC as well
Hadn’t played in months and they roped me back in with SoM. Got a lvl 26 shaman already and am ready to sacrifice my life to keep leveling…… god damn this game and my addictive personality.
If they don't change classes in SoM, they could at least change the tier gear to make it better, like for instance the pally tier is super trash. Maybe even make it like a class token to change it to your spec like tbc.
Serious talk there are a few top speed clears of SSC&TK that utilize IEA to decrease the amount of time spent on bosses. Not a lot, but there's a few sprinkled in here an there. At a certain point clearing a trash pack with an additional aoe dps has diminishing returns. Not exactly sure if that point has honestly ever been met, but you can min/max whether you want to save time on trash packs or save time on bosses. Also in TK trash packs rogues can blind/gouge the spinners allowing arcane mages to aoe pump as opposed to poly morphing repeatedly. IEA for most balanced team comps brings an extra 300~ dps to the table not the greatest utility, but for these warrior/hunter centered team comps it likely will bring upwards of 600-700 dps which is a pretty damn relevant buff. Call it copium, but right now when Moro has sub 600-700 armor I'm already pulling 2.2-2.3k single target dps to Morogrim. Imagine when rogues have haste + the 6200 bosses armor (all of hyjal btw) in p3 BiS they'll have sub 200 armor, easily going to be doing 2.6k single target no problem whilst bringing IEA to the table. Another way to look at it is looking at top rogue dps in KT. Look how much dps they have in p5 KT. I'm doing over 2650+ dps consistently (no lust) whilst applying IEA, Warp Slicer is absolutely nuts but Glaives comparatively won't be too far off. Lastly being a rogue that's gettin nearly full 99.5+ my logs are already becoming equivalent to hunters getting low 99 and high 98s especially on fights like fathom/kt/void reaver/leotheras/hydross/morogrim (boss damage).
I think depending on the situation a rogue could have a place, it's just very hard to justify for speedrunners because top end guilds right now only care about clear time. Basically they'd stack 25 ret paladins if they thought it was the key to clear time speed. Right now rogues low cleave dmg leads to increase in clear time due to slower trash killing, and the IEA kill speed increase on bosses isn't enough to offset it. Really if we want to make rogues viable for top end guilds who speedrun then it has to somehow have a positive effect on the overall clear speed of the guild, which probably means a tweak to blade flurry or similar.
@@ClassicRoguecraft I address this at the beginning of my post regarding faster potential bosses due to IEA. Particularly in heavy physical dps comps. Again is it worth the loss in cleave that a warrior would provide for trash packs? Maybe? Maybe not, but some of the top clears in SSC/TK have rogues included so that tells me that some teams value the decreased boss kill times due to the bosses have a lower armor value.
@@thepratter Unfortunately I can tell you from talking to a lot of speedrun teams that 100% the only reason rogues are on any speedrun top 10 ranks is because it's not easy for them to replace the rogue or find someone as reliable - not so much because the rogue is a benefit over another class. It's a loss of clear time for sure even in the melee comp to bring a rogue, it's just that some guilds don't easily have someone as good to replace the rogue or they're willing to lose clear time due to not contested rank 1 yet. Of the top 10 SSC runs right now I believe maybe 1 has a rogue and even their comp would have benefitted from swapping him out.
It’s all relative in regards to what is actually best dps. I’m okay with admitting rogues aren’t the best right now, just means rogues have to perform better or bring other things to the raid. I never want to become one of those creators or communities that will just blindly over exaggerate how good my class is relative to other classes. Sometimes it’s okay for your class to not be top dog and I don’t think that a bad thing to admit.
![Natanael Cano - Amor Eterno [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EO4prCs6WpM/mqdefault.jpg)
![KAYTRANADA - Witchy (feat. Childish Gambino) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/jGK3YVmGZ3Y/mqdefault.jpg)
Want to know when next episode is live? Got question? Ask here ►► discord.gg/T9XQJw7gJj
what your missing is that there are alot of 95 quality rogues in 60 parsing quality guilds because thats the only spot they could get.
So it very much is a real world scenario for some that "i beat my guilds hunters" because they best they will find are hunters of that skill level.
@@jasonu3741 Sadly parsing is mostly a thing that doesn't matter for guild performance - it's a number that grades you vs. other people of your class and not vs. the entire raid's performance.
The real number that matters is overall dmg and the better the guild the less they care about your parse vs. actual overall dmg being the key. Single target has never been rogues weakness - it's always been our lack of overall dmg for trash due to long cleave CDs.
The unfortunate truth is that a rogue with full 95s might only be roughly matching that warlock with 60-70 parses in overall dmg. And for every 'good parsing' rogue that also keeps up in overall dmg, there's far more that fall far behind due to the difficulties of overall dmg for rogues.
Easy with the “dad guild” stigma… I’m a dad, in a dad guild. We only raid twice a week and have been clearing kt vashj since week 2. World 34th (us 5th) for SSC execution, US 47th SSC for speed. And some other respectable scores. And we don’t even really try to hardcore anything or speed run … just the one trash skip after lurker just so we can get on with our lives, raid log to play FF or SoM, or do dad things. I get it’s a joke but you realize most of the demographic for this game is much older than you think, and at least on Bene… most of the top guilds here are Dad guilds. And just good gamers. The Dad thing is kind of a cop out.
Congrats on being the exception man (: not everyone is as qualified as your group. As a dad myself, I don't get any stigma from him talking about dad guilds, because we have more important stuff then being exceptional at wow. I'm sure many value working with the people they know more then being the best guild. Go get them stud (;
+1 🙏
i know this might not be the most exciting comment, but thank u guys for continuing to put out quality wow content. i love this game and ill play it until they shut down the servers. it sucks that the content for it has fallen to the place it has but i enjoy seein the podcast pop up in my feed. (side note zirene is totally a riot plant to convert blizz fans haha)
As a person who's guild took 52 attempts on vashj b4 our first kill. And only got KT last week with 30+ pulls. Im so thankful they didnt go thru with the nerfs and let us get those true kills.
Attunements 1 per account... gah it is a pain with the multi alt'er.
... spend days waiting for a respawn... and it finally pops up and someone out of know where swoops in and tags/kill it and walk off without looting it.
People over-estimate how much trash there is in SSC and TK. You would basically have to remove entire sections of trash to have any noticable impact as far as giving people more time on bosses. For an average dad guild there's about 15 minutes of trash between each boss. That's about the same amount of time a failed Vashj/KT attempt takes to reset and go again.
Didn't realise TK/SSC was an issue until recently. Been 10/10 since week 2
Thing is, if it is too easy, it retracts from the value. Don't take away from quality and focus on objectives such as dead servers by merging/offering free xfers for those characters. Give them opportunity. My concern with nerfing the content is what will they do for next patch? They have to get good enough, or modify their strategy enough to take on the rest of TBC as well
Classic world pvp when everyone is leveling is fun no matter what.
Never thought that the Bigglesworth discord would be more organised than one of the most populated servers discord
Ofc it is its much smaller easier to control lol
Problem with low population PVP ranking is you might not have enough BR1 spots. Need 336 “active” PVPers per BR1 spot.
i had a sealed glaives and my guild broke up /stopped raiding
who do i call
help
Rogues pump in Sunwell. Not as hard as fury warriors, but they pull their weight.
anyone know how to find guilds recruiting on faerlina?
Hadn’t played in months and they roped me back in with SoM. Got a lvl 26 shaman already and am ready to sacrifice my life to keep leveling…… god damn this game and my addictive personality.
If they don't change classes in SoM, they could at least change the tier gear to make it better, like for instance the pally tier is super trash. Maybe even make it like a class token to change it to your spec like tbc.
But that's not why New world failed. They had essentially no PVP while levelling.
Gotta love Zirenes reaction to triple rogue no ret
Someone has to provide a home for the poor rogues, I guess my guild is one of them
30 Rogues in the World for Alliance and blessed to be a part of a team who has 4 of those
ngl after watching this podcast i started googling what league of legend was, ru sure u guys not ''inside'' promoters of their games :P
Great video, really helpful content. Never quit ;)
Serious talk there are a few top speed clears of SSC&TK that utilize IEA to decrease the amount of time spent on bosses. Not a lot, but there's a few sprinkled in here an there. At a certain point clearing a trash pack with an additional aoe dps has diminishing returns. Not exactly sure if that point has honestly ever been met, but you can min/max whether you want to save time on trash packs or save time on bosses. Also in TK trash packs rogues can blind/gouge the spinners allowing arcane mages to aoe pump as opposed to poly morphing repeatedly. IEA for most balanced team comps brings an extra 300~ dps to the table not the greatest utility, but for these warrior/hunter centered team comps it likely will bring upwards of 600-700 dps which is a pretty damn relevant buff.
Call it copium, but right now when Moro has sub 600-700 armor I'm already pulling 2.2-2.3k single target dps to Morogrim. Imagine when rogues have haste + the 6200 bosses armor (all of hyjal btw) in p3 BiS they'll have sub 200 armor, easily going to be doing 2.6k single target no problem whilst bringing IEA to the table. Another way to look at it is looking at top rogue dps in KT. Look how much dps they have in p5 KT. I'm doing over 2650+ dps consistently (no lust) whilst applying IEA, Warp Slicer is absolutely nuts but Glaives comparatively won't be too far off.
Lastly being a rogue that's gettin nearly full 99.5+ my logs are already becoming equivalent to hunters getting low 99 and high 98s especially on fights like fathom/kt/void reaver/leotheras/hydross/morogrim (boss damage).
mind sharing your name on warcraftlogs? I'd like to check you out.
Great take btw 👌
I think depending on the situation a rogue could have a place, it's just very hard to justify for speedrunners because top end guilds right now only care about clear time.
Basically they'd stack 25 ret paladins if they thought it was the key to clear time speed. Right now rogues low cleave dmg leads to increase in clear time due to slower trash killing, and the IEA kill speed increase on bosses isn't enough to offset it.
Really if we want to make rogues viable for top end guilds who speedrun then it has to somehow have a positive effect on the overall clear speed of the guild, which probably means a tweak to blade flurry or similar.
@@ClassicRoguecraft I address this at the beginning of my post regarding faster potential bosses due to IEA. Particularly in heavy physical dps comps. Again is it worth the loss in cleave that a warrior would provide for trash packs? Maybe? Maybe not, but some of the top clears in SSC/TK have rogues included so that tells me that some teams value the decreased boss kill times due to the bosses have a lower armor value.
@@thepratter Unfortunately I can tell you from talking to a lot of speedrun teams that 100% the only reason rogues are on any speedrun top 10 ranks is because it's not easy for them to replace the rogue or find someone as reliable - not so much because the rogue is a benefit over another class. It's a loss of clear time for sure even in the melee comp to bring a rogue, it's just that some guilds don't easily have someone as good to replace the rogue or they're willing to lose clear time due to not contested rank 1 yet.
Of the top 10 SSC runs right now I believe maybe 1 has a rogue and even their comp would have benefitted from swapping him out.
silly rogues lol
bots farm for months on end, now this little change, lol
The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The 2nd best time is today. Let's just appreciate some progress (:
No, I'm gonna piss on that tree
@@roffo hope you feel better after pissing on it
I do,very relieving
rogues arn't even that shit
It’s all relative in regards to what is actually best dps. I’m okay with admitting rogues aren’t the best right now, just means rogues have to perform better or bring other things to the raid.
I never want to become one of those creators or communities that will just blindly over exaggerate how good my class is relative to other classes. Sometimes it’s okay for your class to not be top dog and I don’t think that a bad thing to admit.
im 2nd dps on Leotheras what u meannn *inhales copium*