Bramblestar - The Symptom to The Bigger Problem
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
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This is a direct response to Moonkitti's video, 'Bramble is Worse.' Check it out here! • Bramblestar is Worse
Also check out Mosspetals video, 'everybody hates bramblestar', here! • everybody hates brambl...
If you or someone you know is in an abusive relationship, there is a way out. Please check out these sources below for statistics, warning signs, and hotlines for help/advice.
Domestic Violence Support - www.thehotline...
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Find Help Across Canada - endingviolence...
Yeah....I am going to end up making another video about Squirrelflight's Hope...AND the bullshit they're trying to pull over our eyes with Silverstream.
As always, thank you to CascadingSerenity and so many others for allowing me to use their art in my videos! Its a life saver. Thanks to bored-ghost for the fan-art!
Please be aware that I originally started writing this script a year ago. I took my time researching and asking advice from my Mom to make sure I approached this topic sensitively. I coulda sworn A Light in The Mist came out at the end of November instead of early Nov, so as a result, I address the book as if it hasn't released yet. My bad!
And yes, I WILL do another video about Squirrelflight's Hope, addressing the BS trial scene and hypocrisy of StarClan. No word when that will be ready, it may be a long time.
Given how absolutely horrendous that trail scene is
Oh boy, am I exited to see starclan put in their place :/
Does your mom knows warriors lore
I hate that scene.
@@awoum no
Where's the second video you mentioned? Also I'm guessing that these two videos are your "squirrelbramble" video from your top 7 couples videos
But stuff like appealing to the shippers bs? this is why I've learned to accept the inevitable change that comes with loosing the original writing cast. When they are ALL gone? You have to ask yourself if clinging to it is worth it. I love warriors too and adore the world it's in but I also am willing to admit that sadly? Plot over profit isn't the name of the game anymore. I hate to break it to these people but people and by proxy CHARACTERS change! These are things that are inevitable with time!
That's why we have fan fictions to rewrite what went horribly wrong with the story. Like maybe both tigerheart and dovewing were possessed to ruin shadow and thunder clans forever by some of the bigiots of the past. Hell the current stone teller could probably be one! He got so pissed at the changes in his own culter, so he left it to die out of spite that he possesses Tigerheart. Maybe mapleshade possessed dovewing to finally screw over thunderclan in the flesh again. Hell we know it's completely possible and neither one is mega dead yet so why not? But the only "in university" way I can make sense of this sudden dive in characterization is that squirrelflights hope happens during the early stages of bramble being possessed by ashfur. And that throughout a vision of shadows, a and a broken code? He's still possessed.
Personally? I think that squirrelflight was just so overjoyed at learning that she could have kits of her own that she wasn't even mad. Besides, it's not like adoption isn't an option and the fact some queens don't want kits at all? This to me seems like a better alternative. She finds out that she can have kits like she wanted and that she'd actually be a pretty good mom.
News flash clan cats: NOT EVERYONE WANTS KIDS OR HAS THE MENTAL CAPACITY TO BE A MOM OR DAD! So what I don't understand is why the she cats who end up screwed over quite literally don't just suckle the kits and then offer them up to thier clan members for adoption? I mean yes it's crappy to do but at the same time? For every cat that wants kits? There's at least two that don't. Or hell! Have the spouse who wants the kits be a single parent so the other can move on with thier lives.
Side note; Am I the only one who finds it odd that tigerstar sinks to a new low and has kits with a kittypet turned loner despite all the crap he spewed about firestar and then feathertail and stormfur? That never made any sense to me. Or why bramble doesn't seem to ask about who Hawks mother was.
Onestar Syndrome in a nutshell: Every time a cat is made leader, StarClan flips a coin and the Clans hold their breath.
HAHAHAHA
Pretty much
Rowanstar didn't deserve to be done dirty
Like the the house Targaryen :3
Worse tho becuse this time it's somehow *Unintentional*
I wish every relationship could be like Brightheart and Cloudtail's. Fun, heartwarming, and just generally a wonderfully wholesome thing to read. It makes me wonder why the Erins can't seem to write consistently good romance arcs nowadays, they've done it before!
Because anything that is deem "bad" is more interesting then "good, wholesomeness"
@@KyleEvra And that anything is good and wholesome is "boring".
It's sad that we as a society are actually convinced that drama and toxicity in relationships in fiction is more exciting than good healthy relationships where the couples have fun moments together. I guess because making couples fight and scream at eachother is "easier" than coming up with scenarios to make canon relationships have interesting dynamics or put them in genuinely fun scenarios. u.u
Wdym? Cloudtail literally (Cheated?) On Brightheart and neglected her because he was always hanging out with daisy. Does that ring a bell?
Bramblestar and Jessy.
@@Mabbot182while Cloudtail was a mousebrain for subconsciously neglecting his wife, he never actually cheated on her. Hell, he didn't even realize Daisy had a crush on him. But he went back, apologized and that's why I love them. He's willing to acknowledge his mistakes. But Bramblestar and Jessy are a whole different story. Bramblestar knew Jessy was somewhat pursuing him romantically, and instead of going back to his wife, he started pursuing her as well. It took her leaving the clans to get him to snap back to reality.
I agree with you points about New Prophecy Bramble, but I still see Omen of the Stars Bramble as abusive. As someone who was the victim of silent treatment multiple times, reading the first book of the arc alone made me sick to my stomach. Just days of silent treatment abuse can make you feel torn up, but to keep that up for over a year is absolutely horrible of a person (cat?) to do.
It doesn’t really matter if they broke up.
Bramble is her boss and Squirrelflight is trapped in the same clan with him regardless of their relationship status. She relies on his communication.
Squirrelflight will lose literally everything if she leaves and Bramble is very much aware that she can’t leave.
Stonewalling your ex especially if you have kids is toxic as hell and can damage your kids too (and yes Jay and Lion are their kids, even if he’s not the bio Dad, he raised them). Anything other than behaving civil with her is awful behaviour.
@@juno1752 I feel like what changes is it (his behaviour is toxic regardless imo but still) is the fact Squirrelflight did not choose to contribute to by taking in the kids or keeping the secret and Brambleclaw knows this.
The people they both basically worship as gods literally refused to take Squirrelflight’s feelings on the situation as an answer and the burden of keeping the kits and their origin a secret was practically forced on her by Starclan.
Her role was entirely out of her control and if she had broken the rules for all she knows they would have 3 bitter god-like beings being thrown out, seeking revenge on the clans with no way to stop them.
Bramble chose to stonewall Squirrelflight for something Squirrelflight had no control over.
@@thesaltyeevee1459 That is completely true, though to give it the benefit of the doubt, it's implied that Squirrelflight never told Bramble that Starclan had forced her to take in the three (until that manga chapter), so for all he knows, she lied for no good reason. The authors are to blame for this EXTREME oversight tho, so again, this debate is being had because of bad writing. I agree with your argument tho!
Not wanting to talk to a former significant other after experiencing an extreme lie. (Lying is toxic btw). Is setting a boundary. The truth never even came from Squirrelflight so Bramblestar was well within his rights to not want to talk Squirrelflight anymore. Imo.
@@thesaltyeevee1459 Bramblestar didn't completely shut out Squirrelflight, Lionblaze, and Jayfeather. The kids were mature when the lie was released regardless. Now even though the lie was pretty much Starclan's fault, the truth could have been eased out much better as time went on than what actually happened imo. All in all how the truth came out Bramblestar was justified imo in not wanting to talk Squirrelflight because at the time he did not know Starclan was behind the lie. All he knew was his mate lied to him. Lying is also toxic. Bramblestar set a boundary on their personal relationship. Even if he knew Starclan were the real ones to blame he still would be justified in setting a boundary imo because of what I said earlier about the truth coming out. Bramblestar was not obligated to keep good close relations with someone who lied to him for so long. I guess we should all take Mothwing's advice and admit Starclan's guidance is flawed.
“And i truly had no other family?”
Moth wing and Tawnypelt: BOI-
Shadowclan is practically on the other side of the Lake, even if Bramblestar were to come see her he’d have to get past multiple annoying border strict side characters
I think the erins completely forgot Mothwing was a Tigerstar baby for the sake of making her a Leafpool centric character
To be fair, Tawnypelt kind of cut off that part of her family, to focus on Shadowclan and the family she made there, besides, Bramble and Tawny hardly see or speak to each other, for that reason.
As for Mothwing, even if they are half siblings, Moth focused more on being a medicinal cat, and I think that besides having the same father, they have nothing in common.
Like, Bramble has not family left in Thunderclan.
Honestly I think both you and Moon’s interpretations are valid. You are both well researched so it’s safe to assume that these opinions are somewhat unbiased as well. There is no canon answer to the Bramble problem unfortunately, so the best we can do is accept each other’s opinions and unite in the realization that this series has long been off the rails. It’s time for us as fans to step forward and refuse to support this way of writing. It’s not just bad anymore, it’s glorifying abuse. As much as it hurts, I’m no longer going to be buying the Warriors books until I see a change in how they write.
Edit: What I mean by “There is canon answer to the Bramble problem” is that the books don’t make it clear what we’re supposed to think of him. In Squirrelflight’s Hope, he’s written as abusive. In the following arc, he’s treated as a hero. It’s hard to make a case for the author’s intentions either way.
Lol, moon is a huge squirrel fan, so there's definitely some bias, she's right about bramblebutt sucking and ashfur being the better choice of course, but still. And if anything, the writing is getting better, things aren't quite as predictable, and are more serious, almost as if their straying away from the more kid friendly style.
@@TheAshfurApologist Yeah, as much as l like Moonkitti she’s very biased about Squirrelflight and whatnot.
@Oreoflurry o wow, I thought moon was pro ashfur☹
@Oreoflurry squirrelflight shouldve been independent yet adopt everybody
@Moon Yes but he is written as abusive. This means that many young readers are being desensitized to abusive behaviour because it’s not made out to be bad in the text. Only teens and adults can really understand how awful Bramblestar is, which is a huge problem considering how most of the readers are children.
For me the biggest problem with Bramble is that he doesn’t listen he sees things how he wants to see things
He somewhat tries to do the right thing, but then in Squirrelflight’s hope, because of stinky Tigerheartstar he pretty much goes ‘yeah, sorry honey those kits gotta die because tigerheartstar will be very mad at me also I love starclan teehee’
and he doesn't truly learn how to treat Squirrelflieght
That’s literally Squirrelflight lol.
Not only does she not listen, but she actively goes and does things that are awful
@@GreySpace-rc8kfnope that’s Brambleclaw. Squirrelflight/Squirrelstar actually tries to save cats
While I am aromantic and asexual, so I may be slightly biased here, I couldn't help but wonder...
Who said Squirrelflight needs to have a mate at all? Send Bramblestar and Ashfur on their way, and just pick nobody! It's not like you're required to have a mate in order to be deputy. Heck, she had kits of her own, Leafpool gave them to her, she could have had everything she wanted without a mate!
as someone who isn't aro ace I agree as well
personally I know the plot for the rest of the series (I like to spoil myself heehoo) but I'm only just beginning to read Midnight for real, and for me squilf really didn't need to have a mate
an aro ace squilf would have been so great but man they just HAD to make the story even more like the lion king with the soppy romance didn't they smh
I think that's a problem a lot of people have: the fact that nearly every single she-cat _needs_ to have a mate and kits at some point. There are so few she-cats who don't get a mate or have kits, and usually, it's because she dies young (Feathertail, Bristlefrost, and Honeyfern, for instance). Snowfur had kits almost right after becoming a warrior and never had a chance to actually be a warrior.
Squirrelflight had to choose between the best of two evils, and while I believe Brambleclaw was the best choice between him and Ashfur, there was also a third choice that was never considered: just...not being with either of them and either finding somebody else or never taking a mate?
It's an issue in the series. The she-cats seem to have this "duty" to the clan to have kits one day (reflecting how society saw and kinda still views women), which is something I think needs to slow down.
Because she would want.
Be Alone didnt have to be the answer to everything
Best comment on the video other than the one saying that Brambleclaw is a b*tch
Im aro. Thing is that Squirrelflight wanted to have another litter of kits before she was too old to have anymore litters.
Up to 4:30, (Not after.) Okay, yes. She did. Here's the difference.
As you said, it could've been a progressive deterioration, but certainly that, Brambleclaw was accusing her of pointless and spitefully comparing him to Tigerstar, like a child would who can't accept reality. When she finally did think of him in such a way, it was not from spite or want, she legitimately had reasons to perceive his attitude as susceptible to Tigerstar's mental traits. She's given a genuine concern, and it's not from biased stubbornness as Brambleclaw thinks.
Not to mention that if someone is repeatedly accusing you of thinking a certain way that you don't for long enough that you do start to think that way, it isn't you being as bad as them... it's them successfully gaslighting you. You know... a kind of abuse. :/
Edit: Rage says that the term gaslighting is thrown around a lot these days when using it to describe the more blatant example in Squirrelflight's Hope, but I want to defend my use of it here. By the strictest definition, only Rage's example would be gaslighting. That example includes intention in the action and the things Bramble said he could not have genuinely believed unless he had already deluded himself.
However, the more loose form or "throwing about" of the term has more to do with the effect than the strict intention. Bramble may or may not have believed what he was saying to Squilf in the second arc. That is up to interpretation, thus the strict sense of gaslighting applying in that case is also up to interpretation. However, regardless of his beliefs or intent, he accused her of it so often that she did start to question that situation herself. Hence, the effect of his interactions with her were the same regardless of his intention.
This is the only point in which I think I disagree with the video: that abuse does not need to be intentional to be abuse. That a cruel or mean boyfriend and an abusive boyfriend are not in fact very different things, as the effect on their partner can be similar or even the same.
Granted, I also think that Squilf was abusive to Bramble at points. Their relationship, as a whole, has become very toxic and was not healthy at any point and any chance to salvage it, as Rage rightfully pointed out, is far, far past. It seems to me that what the video depicted as "not abusive" was merely not beyond repair.
@@Fawnheart this!!! It's not always intentional but it's not excusable!!
Now that I've watched more video,
I don't believe Squirrelflight was blind at all. As in it says, her love for her sister should've made her sympathetic. Rather, she understands more than ANYONE what a sibling should be, and Hawkfrost isn't that. She has NO alternative option than to get Brambleclaw away from his brother, or something worse would certainly happen.
@@MahkRonAKash SHE HAD LITERALLY NO REASON TO DISTRUST HAWKFROST!
@@FantasticFawnleap *Sigh.* Here we go again. Honey, he aided in a Windclan Coup, tried to keep Mistyfoot out of power, and expressed his ambition to Mothwing which Leafpaw overheard. He made a power move for the island, and challenged the Leadership of a cat blessed by the previous, and by Starclan.
Need I go on, or are you ready for bed yet?
Bramblestar's entire arc was not to judge someone for what their parents did because evil isn't genetic only for him to turn into a less murderous version of Tigerstar, I thought that is why they created Hawkfrost for the what if Brambleclaw was evil
I’m so glad you brought up the reaction Silverstream had to greystripe reuniting with Millie. And feather tail with crow feather. It made no sense since both she cats encourage the relationships because they loved them and wanted them to be happy. Why would they do that???
@Sara Moustamandi you are absolutely correct. She was only a crush/love interest, nothing more
I'm pretty sure Crow will end up with leaf in starclan
They may have encouraged it but they probably hoped theyd be the ones picked when their partner finally joins them
AMEN SISTER
Feathertail was the one who told Leafpool that Crowfeather needed to move on from her
@mrdoe97 Or they move on but don’t take a new partner. You don’t need to be in a relationship to be happy and some don’t want another relationship, just the one they had and there’s nothing wrong with that.
I’m glad you discouraged “canceling” because instead of improving the series, the writers could simply cancel the series, creating a crap ton of loose ends and more issues caused by what is no different from mass targeted harassment and that will end up being used to distract from the internal problems in the series itself. People will say “they deserved it” but there are others that want the writers to improve and pay more attention to the series’ quality because they’re passionate about the series and characters, that’s all they want. That shows the obvious difference between malice and frustration or tough love
Brambleclaw as a character was someone we could relate to, in that his stance in his clan was judged because of the one Bad Parent he had from a very young age onwards, making him question himself & those around him. He had to grapple with emotions not many would understand at least on a personal level. While he had indeed been sullen, cold or explosive with Squirrelflight in the second arc, he wasn't abusive; he was just being an a-hole. He eventually came to see that & had been doing what he could to improve himself. Even in the 4th arc when he was so angry with Squirrelflight, he was again wrestling with his emotions in a poor unhealthy way & bottling it all up instead of talking to virtually anyone else. But that at least is something that does get worked on once again.
Then, there's Bramblestar in Squirrelflight's Hope... he might as well have been a far different character.
Having this laid out have helped to further analyze the character himself & how far the writers had fallen with their own content. It might have been very well a writer who never worked with the arcs initially nor gave them a full read was just given the very basic trait list of what Bramblestar was by another who skimmed those said books & ran with that.
Though, I feel that I have to say that the new arc Bramblestar was closer to the Brambleclaw we knew, for as little time we actually have of the real Bramblestar himself. But that is an opinion, & very likely one that requires more research on my part to be even certain of that.
All in all, I'm really enjoyed listening to the video & being given things to think over.
Are you referring to the broken code or a Starless Clan
@@starvoltnexus3139 at the time I've written this comment, it was the Broken Code arc.
I feel like TNP Brambleclaw wouldn’t be abussive if he actually had those feelings you mention, Golden flower didn’t even get a death scene nor does Bramblestar even think about missing her. Sure you can infer that he might think that if he wasn’t a POV character, but since he is one we know the authors were to busy writing other plots to make him care about golden flowers death.
I love how u addressed that the Erin’s went so wrong with squirellflights hope and endorsing abuse in it. Squirellflight is my favorite character and not only are they butchering bramblestar, but they made my favorite character suffer with it just for plot. And to that I ask why, why resort to lazy writing after some great books and character development
By the way I meant to say on this comment that it was the editors who worked this writing out more not the writers
I also heard the person who wrote squirrelflight hope didn’t like squirrelflight at all. And I’m like then why did they have squirrelflight a book by someone who didn’t like squirrelflight?! No wonder squirrel went through so much crap! No wonder all characters are out of character! It not just bramblestar but everyone in that book. They haven’t ruin leafstar yet but give it time
*burps*
“For fucks sake, even my own body is betraying me.” I died 😂. But in all seriousness I am getting sick of the way they’re butchering characters. Violetshine is reduced to nothing like she originally was, Silverstream and Feathertail being annoyed that their past lovers had a moment with their other loves?Silverstream and Feathertail would never do that!!
Heck, didn't Silverstream approve of Grey and Millie getting together at some point? Why's she so pissy about him giving attention to the cat he's been with the majority of his life?
@@nectarinn3 She did in the Millie manga tell Graystripe she approved of Millie so I don’t get it either
Agreed
I am really disappointed in the new books, and their covers too! Like, come on! They aren't even trying!!! And when I saw the Silverstream situation on warriors wiki, I was very confused. Last time I checked she was proud of Graystripe for choosing a new mate and moving on from her.
I see your point, but I disagree about the Omen of the Stars part. Silent treatment is considered an abusive method, it makes the victim feel guilty over something they did like they were the only one in the wrong. Brambleclaw being passive-agressive is a huge red flag on this matter, I remember I had an abusive friend back in the day and they would, apart from usual manipulation shennanigans, snap out out of nowhere. And they did so out of inner turmoil as well.
I haven't read The New Prophecy yet (I'm brazilian and we only have the first arc availible here), but from what I heard of, Brambleclaw shows some red flags but doesn't straight up abuse. Omen of the Stars is a passive-agressive abusive Brambleclaw, because it reminds me somewhat of the situation I had and even sometimes partook in (O grew past that, and I don't deny my part in the toxicity of that relationship).
I don't think you're 100% wrong though!
I can't help but feel like Kate and Cherith don't have the ability to openly admit things like Bramblestar's abuse. If it's not what the REAL owners want the relationship to be seen as, she might not be allowed to just talk about it on Twitter. IDK. That message seemed really fake and corporate to me.
I like The Broken Code for what it is. It can be incredibly confusing at times and sometimes just forgets or makes it’s own lore for plot reasons. I think The Broken Code COULD work, it’s just going about it all wrong. I don’t like how Rootspring got together with Bristlefrost either. Bristlefrost never showed interest for him UNTIL he confessed to her, then she suddenly had the hots for him too. The fact that she was rejected by Stemleaf only makes it fair that Rootspring is rejected too. I’m just saying.
The Rage has returned! Naming my OC “Brambleheart” has made me question whether or not I can promote him to leader in the fanfic. Maybe I should kill him off for some shock value.
Maybe something could happened to your character that would make the current leader want to preform name changing (like lostface to brightheart) to what ever you would like.
Nah
I was leaning more towards early retirement. He’s had a long journey to this point, so I thought that I could show this through some early aging, due to the stress and injuries that filled his journey here. You know, some early arthritis or whatever. I haven’t read of a similar situation in Warriors, so I think that this’ll be cool. Thoughts?
@@fireheart8878 sounds great!
@mrdoe97 I mean from a political standpoint. Having an OC named Bramblestar could potentially fool the lesser intelligent to accuse me to support the abusive cannon one. Of course, this may sound foolish, but as a RWBY fan myself, I’m fully aware of the actions that toxic fake fans of the series could take to ensure that their opinions are constantly voiced and demanded upon others. I find it quite disgusting, and would prefer to avoid it altogether.
This is a really good video! But... with TNP, I think you left out the important fact that Bramblestar's mistreatment of Squilf goes past that one argument. It's his behavior when they're estranged that's the problem- how he finds ways to insult and agitate her while she's dating Ashfur. Even when she's trying to be nice to him, he's bossy and jealous, either because he wants to be deputy or because he's trying to take out his frustrations on her. It's more than the "Then you don't know me at all!" conversation.
Yeaaah while I appreciate a lot of the points brought up in this video that I haven't considered before, lot of it feels like projecting personal interpretation rather than just looking at the text and drawing conclusions from that specifically. I know this series requires a LOT of suspension of disbelief, but what everyone uses to fill in the gaps will be at least Slightly different.
I would love to see a discussion between you and Moonkitti discussing the book and your thoughts in general!
I'm placing bets on Quiet winning.
The yin and yang go head to head in debate.
Another theory: The clans are a cult
Starclan definitely is
Omg, I JUST finished watching Moonkitti’s Bramblestar Is Worse video last night! I was looking forward to your thoughts on Bramblestar the terrible!
Beautifully put. I wish Bramble wasn't torn apart in this way, tbh.
I remember reading SH before I got the TBC books, but I had spoilers so I knew Ashfur would possess him. I was honestly very surprised to find out the SH Bramble was not a possessed Bramble because of how… OOC he was. I have to admit I loved SH because we got Squirrel and Leaf to shine again, but other than that, all the bramble stuff was so hard to read
Peut-être que c'est en partie à cause du comportement d'Étoile de Ronce dans Squirrelflight's Hope que Poil d'Écureuil a mis du temps à comprendre qu'il était possédé par quelqu'un dans The Silent Thaw. Bien que je n'ai pas lu Squirrelflight's Hope, je pense que le comportement d'Étoile de Ronce était du à la situation à laquelle il était confronté en tant que chef du Clan du Tonnerre : la place du Clan du Ciel dans les territoires du lac compromise par la présence des Sisters + la pression que lui mettait Étoile du Tigre II, alors ajoute à ça que son lieutenant et compagne agissait derrière son dos, même si son comportement abusif n'est pas justifiable, je peux le comprendre, d'autant qu'il se réconcilie avec Poil d'Écureuil à la fin en lui disant qu'il ne veut plus qu'ils se disputent de cette façon. Le conflit Poil d'Écureuil - Étoile de Ronce dans Squirrelflight's Hope, c'était soit ça passe soit ça casse : soit leur couple en sortait grandi et plus fort, soit il rompait définitivement. Comme ils ont fait la paix à la fin, leur couple en est sorti grandi et plus fort et ça a permis de cimenter leur relation avant The Broken Code quand Pelage de Granit prend possession du corps d'Étoile de Ronce pour s'accoupler avec Poil d'Écureuil.
12:21 specifically this point I’m going to have to disagree. What Brambleclaw did was called “Stonewalling” and it is a form of emotional abuse, especially when power imbalance is involved.
Bramble is literally deputy and Squirrelflight can’t escape his cold shoulder.
It is not okay to cut off communication without someone you are trapped in a living situation with especially considering Squirrelflight will lose her family, friends and possibly her life if she tries to leave, it’s abuse.
So Stonewalling is the Ultimate Cold Shoulder?
@@TheZincMaster-on1fy Yeah
No it’s just avoiding. He still acted like her deputy. Either he ignored her or he harassed her relentlessly. There’s no in between
Somehow he is guilty of both. Should he have been cold? No. But that’s all it was. Cold, not abusive
Brambleclaw has always been a comfort character for me because I relate to him with very eerily similar family situations. I just hate what they turned him into, but I didn’t read anything past The Last Hope.
I'm more in line with the moonkiti video on this one, but this was still a great watch
Edit: Also given it was implied at least in Bramblestar's Storm he'd choose that other cat over Squilf if she stayed, it's another point against the relationship. Not sure if it's be against Bramble, tho he did seem to only pick Squilf causer he couldn't pick the other cat
And another video to watch on loop while I'm drawing. I just hope this doesn't start another war. Guys, remember to chill and respect other's opinions.
So far this video has been my feelings exactly. I’ve always absolutely loved Brambleclaw as a character, and I was so pissed to see him turned into what he is now. Squirrelflight’s Hope, in my opinion, is the worst book in the warriors series.
I’m just gonna Say it. If star clan was going to force the three on SquirrelFlight. They have no excuse to leave him out of it! Honestly and this is gonna sound weird. It would have been more morally correct for them to dictate when they compensated their marriage let’s say. @_@ I will say though both the new prophecy and omen of the stars would’ve benefited from a scene where he apologizes.
About Leopardstar and Frogleap (you've probably already gotten this comment but I wanted to comment and this seemed like the easiest way to do that): Frogleap actually gave Leopardfur a bit of an ultimatum. She had been deputy for a short time and he took issue with the fact that she wasn't spending enough time with him. He is offended at the idea that she would have to "make time" to be with him, and tells her that they can't be mates if she is deputy. I think he also mentions kits, but to me the conversation where they broke up was about Frogleap being needy and breaking up with Leopardstar because of that.
Anyways I know your larger point was that there are plenty of strong female characters, but I think the idea that Warriors is sexist stems from the fact that there have been multiple instances where misogynistic viewpoints held by some characters *aren't* addressed in the narrative, even if this isn't always the case.
Yeah I dont think New Prophecy Bramble was abusive, just stupid and not a good cat to be partners with. Easily influenced and not good at thinking on his own. Omen Of The Stars I think him not being mates or having trouble trusting Squirrelflight is a little understandable-kids are a huge thing. But after omen of the stars he 100% is abusive. It’s like he and Squirrelflight have too much bad history and he can’t be anything but bitter towards her even if he doesn’t realize it. She has always tried her best to make things work and time and time again he takes every opportunity to make her feel like she’s always completely in the wrong and needs to just shut up and let him do the thinking and talking. You can be troubled and you can be someone that needs help but that doesn’t mean you’re not abusive
I think his abusive tendencies have been building up for a very long time. He may not have been abusive at first but he has traits that no one ever called out and those traits because worse and worse until finally Squirrel was just a safety net in his eyes. She’s not a person to him anymore. But also these books are written extremely badly. There is not a single well written book after omen of the stars and some would argue even before that. And Bramblestars storm was literally just him talking about how great he is XD like it was so hard to get through. Warriors has always been sexist though, almost every shecat who chooses work over home is shown in a bad light or at least their decision to do so is. The newer plots of rejecting wanting kits even though a Tom wants them was probably brought on because the authors noticed us complaining about it XD like they literally have us picking out names and pieces of plot! They’re not writing books anymore. They don’t care about the morals of the story, the characters, or anything but making a quick buck on fans who want to know what happens next. The entire series needs to just stop here and if they do continue it needs to be way in the future so they can stop ruining the characters that are currently amazing
You give a lot of credit to Squirrelflight for her own abuse towards him because she is “trying her best” but you offer none of this leniency to Bramble.
It’s just typical
Bramblestar gaslit Kate Cary so hard even she doesn't realize he's abusive LOL
😡😡
I think his pre-leader treatment of Squirrelflight was also abusive - the cold shoulder is absolutely an abusive tactic. Especially when he's in a direct position of power above Squirrelflight
100%
7:28 and also if he can visit and talk to hawkfrost... he can also visit and talk to his sister who is in a clan that's closer by
And doesn’t want to see him. She is dealing with her loyalty being questioned even still in this. She chose a clan over him, not so much a brother he never knew was deposited into a clan. Hawkfrost never left Bramble and Bramble doesn’t have to sneak around to see him really. At least at first. River clan I believe is much closer though during this from what I recall
Reject canon.
*_Embrace fanon._*
Amen
Nah, I'm with Moonkitti on this. Even when Squirrelflight was trying to patch up their friendship he was pushing her away and actively punishing her for spending time with Ashfur.
Then later on giving her the silent treatment was abuse. It's literally on the list of abusive behaviors that my friend got from an abuse victim advocate group after her husband was arrested for beating her up. (Their son called the cops)
So both instances are in fact abuse
Dude Shut up!
@railmedaddy You don’t tell me what to do!
Personally I see the silent treatment as setting a boundary. Bramblestar left Squirrelflight after she lied to him. (Lying is also toxic btw). So do we only criticize Bramblestar's behavior and ignore Squirrelflight's or do we criticize both? If someone else calls me a victim blamer istg. It is not victim blaming to call out toxic behavior on both sides. Please don't bring up Starclan either as far as the lie goes. What happened with Starclan actually voices my problem with religion. People do all these questionable in the name of whatever god they worship and people on the other end of the acts are just supposed to accept it because a "god" is involved. That is hella manipulative and controlling of one's feelings and life and it's not ok.
Edit: Well you may be talking about Bramblestar's interactions with Squirrelflight in TNP throughout your whole comment. Well if you are you can just ignore mine. But if you are breaking into Bramblestar at the end of POT and into OOTS just know that is what I'm talking about.
39:40
I could never agree more with a statement. I know I am commenting to much on the vid, but I wish bramble didn’t make it out of the dark forest. Or at least had time to appoint a new deputy. No offense to squilf but thornclaw wasn’t wrong when he said clan leader was hereditary at this point. A few examples:
Fire to bramble( kid’s husband)
Misty reed (son)
Rowan tiger (son)
One hare (apparently son!?)
Bramble squilf (wife)
Squilf lion (son/niece)
This is a really bad habit, and it is even worse if you include who had who for apprenticeship. (Blue fire, sun blue etc. .)
Agree.
Yeah, we need some characters that’s not related to the main characters at all. Thankfully the new arc has two characters to cover that up.
That's because they don't develop any other characters anymore. If a character isn't related to the protagonist or is a love interest, chances are they don't have a personality (therefore not in for deputyship)
I want some new deputies who aren't even main characters. Harestar is a good step forward, they could've done the obvious and given it to Heather, Breeze, or Crow. ThunderClan specifically had a lot of good deputy options for Bramble to choose from, and while I like Squirrelflight's deputy style I do think it was a bit... forced. I actually liked the idea of Berrynose as deputy just because it was something different.
Hm, I’m still not convinced. What about all of the times that Brambleclaw actively went out of his way to insult and antagonize Squirrelflight for no good reason when she broke up with him? And what happened to him taking out his frustrations on her? These are few things he did to Squilf as BrambleCLAW. Just because he was “young” and “emotionally immature” doesn’t give him the right to abuse Squirrelflight.
He is NOT ABUSING HER!
Honestly, the book itself is junk
@@FantasticFawnleap HA! If only you knew what the abuse cycle was….
I agree with your points that you made in this video, however about the “no one says a peep about how he treats SquirrelFlight” My memory is foggy, but if I remember correctly..I think Sparkpelt was the only one to actually say something about this and call out Bramble and his terrible behavior
I vaguely remember that as well, but I don't think it counts because Sparkpelt doesn't call out Bramble so much as ask Squirrel, "Why do you let him treat you that way?" Which, yes, is an acknowledgement that what Bramble is doing is wrong, but it also victim blames Squirrel by implying that she's at least somewhat at fault for not standing up for herself. Abusers condition their partners to not stand up for themselves by manipulating them into believing that they deserve it, or, even worse, that if they do, they or their loved ones will get hurt. Obviously, neither of those conditions are really applicable to this situation, but still, Sparkpelt asking her mother this question is literally one of the worst possible ways to address the issue.
@@QuietRage Whoops- I looked back at the whole scene you’re right..my bad. and I do agree, that is honestly the worst way to ever address it to someone. She should’ve ripped Bramblestar a new one and called HIM the Mouse Heart. Only a spineless mouse hearted jackass would do such a thing. But that technically does show that cats are aware of this. Maybe the reason why they didn’t speak up is because they were either scared of what Bramble would do, or maybe they don’t say anything because their cowards. (Probably because it would interfere with the plot but still-)
Yes, Sparkpelt, ripe with fever and just having lost her mate lashed out at her father for not finding a solution fast enough.
I am really happy you made this video. I had always liked squirrelflight and so quickly jumped on the bandwagon of bramblestar being abusive the entire time. In hind sight I think your both right. Books are up to the interpretation of the reader and everyone has differing definitions and views of things. I personally like your view of the story. It makes the old books more enjoyable and happy. And I think we could use some happy books.
Back when the broken code came out and you had said that this series had completely gone to hell, I, while understanding your opinion, disagreed. And I enjoyed read a silent thaw despite its many flaws, but after a while... I found myself tracing my steps back to your video. I finally understood what you had been arguing for years now. And wow the last book in the broken code... God I can't ignore it any more and while I won't say it here, it only makes the assassination (literally and personality wise) more upsetting. I wanted so badly to get back into warriors, to recreate the memories. But we had those memories. I started when dawn of the clans was coming out, a pretty good arc. All the books I started with was pre avos. And I am sorry others can't get started on that less tainted view.
God imagine when out Fandoms biggest discorce was whether ashfur was in the right?
I loved Moonkitti’s video and love it whenever RUclipsrs respond to other RUclipsr's videos. I feel like it makes the warrior fan community feel like a community. Thank you so much for doing this, Quiet Rage!😄
Love how you treat Onestar syndrome as an SCP file :)
You should look into mothflight s vision. It tries to talk about teen pregnancy, adoption, and depression.
I hear what you are saying. But, I can’t fully agree. Bramble will never be sympathetic to me.
I can’t stop reading “symptom” as “simp Tom” making bramblebutt a abusivesimp. Even in the new prophecy bramble uses his power as deputy to bully squilf and ash. Bramble blocking leaf from treating a sister just because it is a sister is also racist!
The biggest Simp Tom in Warrior Cats is Thrushpelt or better Thrushsimp :3
My favourite part was the last part about criticism and such! A lot of the time, people aren't wanting to receive it and simply want to write about characters they love.
For criticism to work, the author has to be open to receiving it and if they aren't, then yeah it's just harassment to keep shoving something you dislike about their writing in their face, especially since they're writing about THEIR characters and, at the end of the day, people are entitled to do with they want with their own characters. I'm a writer myself and I kinda know that it's annoying to be told how to write a story lmao. As much as authors still love their fans, many simply want to tell a story in their way and, I suppose, the intent is there even if fans can't see it, which sucks but is true. HOWEVER: When so many people are involved in writing, like with Harper Collins, the authors already cannot tell their story properly and many flaws are because of editors and ghostwriters. This is why I think people should be receptive to supporting self-publishers and seeking them out more! It is highly likely that these authors are having their work warped by these people.
As for she-cats, I've always been confused as to why people hate when they choose a traditional lifestyle. I think it's baffling since I choose to be a housewife and fur baby mother. The world we live in is built on many of these values and in Warriors it's important to note the importance of Clan cats having kits...granted, I dislike how many cats there are in ThunderClan currently, and I can see why people would want less cats to have kits lol.
I honestly wish they had more of a Arthur and Merlin relationship from the show Merlin
I like seeing hawk frost as a cooler toned brown/silver tabby, it basically says through design, while similar, the two brothers have a crucial difference: brambleCLAW has empathy and hope in most cats that they can be good and deserve to live even if it’s an inconvenience for his ambitions. Hawk, if he was in bramble’s situation, would’ve murdered Firestar with little persuasion at most, but bramble saw Firestar as at least someone he liked on a cat to cat level, if not a role model, he, though still ambitious, wasn’t going to kill for it, while killing hawk, that was because he was a bad cat, and stayed such beyond the grave.
Before it gets to this part, which I'm sure it will... I think part of it was the power dynamic. Things started going downhill when BrambleClaw became star, aka, got some power over her.
I don't know why Squirrel Flight always criticized Bramble Claw for being Hawkfrost's kin when SQUIRREL FLIGHT IS LITERALLY RELATED TO SCOURGE!!
She sucks!
Nobody knows that scourge is firestar’s brother
This couple is enough to literally cause anyone to blow their fuse.
Squirrelstar 2022 let's go!
In all fairness I stopped reading the books after arc four but the general response of the newer books has made me glad I hopped out when I did. But it does pain me to know that my beloved characters have been turned into...this nonsense.
NO!
It’s a pain. A character with no path to becoming what they are now, where did it come from?
About Goldenflower, she's mentioned to be aging, sure, but not sick (in fact, she's rarely even in the arc, strangely enough). She also doesn't die in Sunset, but in between that book and The Sight, passing away peacefully due to old age.
Otherwise, good video. Brambleclaw has his own set of problems, but he's no where near as bad as when he becomes leader. It's quite frankly disturbing whenever his behavior gets dismissed, either because "Squirrelflight was just as bad" or because apparently anyone who thinks that Bramblestar is abusive is at least mostly because of that Moonkitti video. Never mind that not only did the Bramble hate start long before the video came out, but Squirrelflight doing bad things doesn't change what Bramblestar has done and actual victims have even spoken out on this and STILL get dismissed!
I still think Brambleclaw was abusive towards Squilf in ,,The New Prophecy". He was bossing Squirrel Flight for nothing, and remember she was not disobedient in any way, when they started living in a new camp. But he wasn't abusive when they were arguing in the forest, that is for sure. About that silent treatment I do agree it was rather immaturity than being intentionally abusive. There is that moment in the ,,Bramblestar's Storm" when he told Jessy about Squilf being overreactive in general. I disagree with him totally. It was really rude of him to talk about his friend like that to a stranger. I mean Squirrel Flight as an adult is not overreactive as she was in that one scene. One should never talk about his/her ex-partner's flaws like that.
Not a friend but his mate which makes it worse
@@Celeste-jh2lj Ex-mate at the time being and a friend. Because after making her his deputy they started being friends again.
She started the fight in the new prophecy it’s her own fault!
@@FantasticFawnleap
As somebody who listened to the audiobooks long ago I can agree with that she started a fight. Remember then, that Bramble Claw had no right to treat her like an apprentice. He had an air like: ,,I can boss you around because I'm older". If you listen these audiobooks, you'll know what I mean.
Apparently this does not exist on RUclips anymore. Anyway he acted pretty much like Tigerstar in the new camp.
Both you and moon have very well thought out points. Bramble stans and apologists, ask yourself: Are you a good reader? Or are you completely blind to this.
Most of us aren’t
Bramble was done bad in the end
Thank you^^
Truth be told, I lost hope I would ever see a video that talks in any way positively about Bramblestar. It's nice to see that there are other people who remember how he used to be and how he was meant to be before the newer books.
There are some points that I find myself disagreeing with you or things I would add (and I'll probably write those things in the comments later), but overall I greatly enjoyed your video.
If I may ask, what did you think about Bramblestar's portrayal in River? Do you think this new direction they are going with his character is a step towards repairing it? Mind you, I would be happier if they could just magically rewrite the last two arcs to at least make the old characters true to who they used to be, but that's unlikely.
PS: Bramblestar and Squirrelflight are my favorite couple in this series. Not because they are the best (because let's face it they're not xD) or anything, but their relationship is most interesting and despite its flows (stemming mostly from the lack of communications that plagues Warriors since arc 1) I find it heartwarming that they always get back together^^
Dude NO bramble deserves a better mate!
@@FantasticFawnleap So does Squirrel tbh. They could’ve broken up books ago but nope. I don’t see why they were paired together-
But, his character was ruined. So many characters I’ve seen so far have been messed up by the writers. I have no idea why.
I stopped reading the books after the final battle.
Firestar killing Tigerstar that's when the series ended for me.
I do read good fanfics and good Oc fanfics now.
The books are mostly made for money now.
They don't care about the characters they made anymore.
The sad thing is I still love bramblestar as a character... I wish, i could just ignore the whole abusive thing, cause I really loved him as a warrior and I can't stop.
Just hoping he gets his old character back in a starless clan I really want to like this guy
Same. What did you think of his portrayal in River?
@@catxborsuq1 i mean... he seemed "disoriented" i think? Not abusive or something just really emotionless? idk as a leader he doesnt seem to be that important what makes me kinda sad
The Erins never even wanted Brambleclaw to be leader, so I feel like they stopped giving an F about his character. Their publishers forced their hand.
I completely understand why you feel there isn't really sexism in the books! I think the reason me and other people believe the opposite is because a lot of the she-cats' stories include the romantic subplot, which is a trope readers have been sick of lately. I think the Erins' over dependance on this trope is what turns readers off. Because people are so sick of it, maybe it makes us think "why does this female character always have to be defined by their romantic relationship in some way? Why can't the authors write a new and better conflict for the protagonist to struggle through?" Now don't get me wrong, there are good examples of romantic relationships in these books, but I think the sexism argument really comes from a desire from the readers for the authors to finally do something new, and to put the effort into writing more varied plots and character arcs. IDK this is just my hypothesis.
Over the years, I've grown to really hate these books, which is a shame, because they had so much potential. Honestly, the writers are lucky to have such a passionate fan base, because with the way they treat their plots and characters, they reeeaaaaalllly don't deserve it IMO. Great video!
I mean Starclan literally used Squilfs ability to reproduce against her and they frame the concept of having kits as just something SHE wants. It's upsetting that characters who are female often just become defined by their mates or their children like you were discussing! My only saving grace was Hollyleaf 😭😂
@@samfinnell6070 Yeah and about that kit subplot in Squilf's Hope, I think it was really stupid to have in the first place. The narrative acting as if Squilf hadn't achieved ANYTHING of worth during her life isn't only complete bullshit but insulting to her character. And the fact that this stupid book ends with her being like "I really don't have the ability or right to make my own choices" and her being happy with that only elevates the sexism claim. This is an issue a lot of the characters have, in which they are empowered by their place in the clan b/c they're useful to the clan and not because that character is appreciated as a person (cat) like with Shadowsight and Mothflight. It's honestly disgusting.
There is a lot of sexism in the Warriors universe in my opinion. If it isn't fully sexism, then it bears a semblance to it. She-cats seem to have some sort of responsibility to have kits (this can be seen most blatantly in the original series, but it's also seen in the fact that most she-cats take a mate unless she dies young), which rings true to reality in the past and even still today to an extent. Even though recently, there's been a pretty hard pushback against it in real life. She-cats are assumed to want kits and a mate; a good example being Finleap's assumption that Twigbranch would have his kits, and then getting upset when she says she isn't ready.
Then there is the unspoken rule that female deputies and leaders should not have kits, an issue addressed in both _Bluestar's Prophecy_ (Bluefur having to surrender her kits in order to be eligible for deputyship) and _SkyClan's Destiny_ (Leafstar being warned that kits would impede her ability to lead. Her refusal to go along with that and deciding to take a mate and have kits anyway was boss. Squirrelflight is also an exception to this rule, surprisingly). When deputies can be temporarily replaced by another senior warrior if need be (i.e., Tawnyspots replaced by Adderfang) and deputies can stand in for leaders temporarily (Graystripe for Firestar in _Firestar's Quest,_ Fireheart for Bluestar in _Rising Storm,_ etc.), this rule makes no sense since a female deputy/leader can just have somebody else take her place until the kits are apprenticed. Again, rings back to when it was assumed women would (should) be too busy with children to be involved in the workplace.
I think the kit subplot in _Squirrelflight's Hope_ would have been fine if not for Squirrelflight's belief that she accomplished nothing. She helped find Midnight, helped lead the clans to a new home after their previous home had been destroyed, helped raise two of the Three despite that they weren't her kits and protected her sister, fought in the final battle against the Dark Forest, became the deputy of ThunderClan and potentially (hopefully) even leader in the future, raised a legitimate litter of her own. She did _so much,_ enough that you might say she's done more than most characters. It's fine for her to want more kits--after being told by Yellowfang she was barren and then discovering otherwise, it makes sense that this might mean more for her than the average she-cat (though I am an avid believer that she would have been better off either alone or with someone other than Bramblestar or Ashfur)--but to have Squirrelflight fear that she hasn't accomplished enough is OOC and dumb. And yeah, the whole thing with her just accepting that she can't make her own choices completely destroys the independent, stubborn, and vocal cat we all know her to be.
@@vicmorgana5516 Yes definitely! In terms of positive female representation, the books need to do more outside of just having descent female protagonists. If the writers are trying to present clan society as just and ideal, the society needs to be in support of these female characters. Too many times have she-cats been carted off to the side or had their opinions disregarded by the male cast, and tho it was more subtle in the first series of books, it's become worse overtime. So while I definitely don't think that the Erins intended to put sexist ideals in the books, (tho it's strange they wouldn't be aware of it), I don't think people are "stretching" when they recognize it. Just because they came later in the franchise, doesn't mean that Squilf's Hope and Spottedleaf's Heart don't indicate another large problem with the books and how they portray their characters. This is a completely valid issue in my opinion that deserves to be discussed.
Eh, if sales went down, they'd just cancel the series, unless some fan had millions to buy the franchise. Which might not be such a terrible thing.
I've been looking forward to this one
"He has no reason to be behaving like this." But I kinda respectfully disagree with that point. Squirrelflight does quite a few various things in SqH that more than plenty gives Bramblestar reason to be upset at her, reprimand her, and even threaten to take away her position. She undermined him repeatedly, went behind his back and directly disobeyed him, got their daughter involved to lie for her, got another clan leader injured, and got them both captured on territory they shouldn't even have been in. And even after being punished, she still brings the Sisters into the heart of his camp, who as far as he last checked, were a hostile group, without his permission first. She lied to Bramble before, even before he was leader, so for her to do it again still, when she's now deputy, gets old and annoying. Just because they happen to be mates, imo doesn't make him reprimanding her abusive, a leader punishing their deputy isn't abusive imo, and I am saying this as an abuse victim myself. The other issue is that if Bramblestar didn't reprimand her, then he'd just be letting Squirrelflight get away with what she wants just because they happen to be mates, which means she gets unfair treatment. Which is just as bad. I think at the end of the day, they shouldn't have gotten back together, and Squirrelflight wasn't really the best choice for deputy, because no matter how you interpret it, it will always come off as "problematic". Squirrelflight also doesn't get any better in the new books either, she's still "my way or the high way" personality-wise, but I know people will still accuse that of being ooc too when it's very on-brand for her at this point.
BramblestarxSorreltail!
I agree with you completely^^ Except for the part about them that they shouldn't have gotten back together ;p As for him choosing her as deputy... honestly, after rereading the first 4 arcs she honestly seems like the best choice for the job.
That being said Bramblestat was still abusive. Or at least, it comes off as abusive. It's clear he was unhappy about it, as seen in their brief talk before that attack on Sisters, and after Squirrelflight nearly died, it was clear that he realized that this was his fault that things had gone so badly. Squirrelflight understood that he did have his reasons, which is why she forgave him.
Still... this book could have been written better :/ Preferably without abuse. Maybe have Squirrelflight agree with him about the Sisters but be a bit conflicted and then have that dream about kits and realize she had to help them?
@@catxborsuq1 dude why they are the worst pairing!
I agree with what you are saying and the it's the main reason why I didn't read past Bramblestar's storm. I felted like the story was done, and the manga at the end confirmed that to me. I think what this series needs is to go very much into the future of the clans. With new cats, new leaders, and new main characters. Maybe a new clan shows up by a rebellion. Have a point of view that isn't Thunderclan for once. Maybe it's so far into the future that the clans had to move again to a new land. I think them starting fresh would have been better after Bramblestar's storm instead of getting the vision of shadows and the broken code. So, we don't see our favorite characters get grind into a pulp.
You know its bad when fanfic writers can write a better than the erens is kind of telling. This book could have had so much more potential. I have read other peoples ideas for how this book could have gone. And they were some good ideas. But, I feel like whoever replaces vickey needs a quick reality check. I know their intentions are probably good, but THIS absolute garbage fire that is "Squirrelflight's hope" is as you said a COMPLETE waste of brambleclaws. Character. He had so much potential and just like miss hollyleaf. They threw it outta the window.
Moonkitti's point of view and yours are really interesting!
I love this video! You both said what needed to be said! THANK YOU
But I wanted to point something out : why did you place a picture of Yellowfang and Silverstream in your explanation of Onestar Syndrom?
I think Yellowfang is there because her character totally changes in Starclan, for example the fact that she let Asfur enter the Starclan after he tried to kill three cats just for a break, and then, for what I undertsand her argument was "his only mistake was love too much".
Apparently Silverstream got angry that Graystrip is with Millie in starclan, even though it was previously stated that Silver was happy that Graystrip managed to find a partner after her death.
@@spicynoodles2742 Ooooooh okay thank you! ^^
@@snowheart4077 sure :3
Brambleclaw was treated poorly by squirrelflight. She was selfish and distrustful. It was her way or wrong. The moment brambleclaw wondered about someone else (hawkfrost) she shut him down. Then she pines after ashfur out of spite which is unfair to both. Brambleclaw did the only thing he cloud, focus on work
BramblexSorreltail!
Squrrielflight didn’t pine after ashfur out of spite, she was thinking about being with ashfur because brambleclaw kept being a jerk to her. The two were clearly not working out with eachother and she considered that she could probably be with Ashfur instead. If trying to start a relationship with someone is not working between the two parties, then there’s nothing wrong with considering a relationship with someone else. And having arguments with squirrelflight does not justify bramblestar’s abusive behavior towards her later in the books in any way.
@@starstorm1267dude she was the one that started the fight!
Squirrelflight really started that argument and before she went away from Brambleclaw, he wasn't a jerk to her. He wasn't in the right to control her after she left him, but I can understand him. Even if he wasn't right in many things, Bramblestar will always be my favorite. (and Squirrelflight most hated , haha)
i discover a more dangerous mental condition i like to call Yandere Syndrome. what is it you ask? well it's a disease that affects a lover and both genders are able to contract it. there's a 50/50 chance a person male or female will get it. when carrier sees a person they would develop affections but this is where stage one happens, the person becomes a bit to clingy to their crush but god forbid they see their crush with another person that's when stage two kicks in, obsession and possessiveness. the action the person takes can be from creepy to stalker level and everything in between. and it gets worse, it always does, the third stage is when the host becomes full on psycho. any person the Yandere host sees with their "Sempai" that host will either brutally injure or kill and then there's stage four where the host eventually kidnaps their crush and at this point death is imminent when the virus makes the host do something that results in the host's death and to make matters worse, there's no cure at this time but it can be treated so that the body's immune system can take it out on it's own. the only character in Warriors with this is obviously Ashfur and maybe even Mapleshade however the later is debatable.
yeah this ain't real bro, please. don't.
@@nectarinn3 A. no duh and two, i was explaining my own scientific research.
I thought Bramble Claw called Squirrel Flight annoying at first since she did whatever she wanted but both grew up on the long journey. Yeah I got that feeling at first till she grew up and learned to care more. I did like them when they were strong together but since they can't seam to talk to each other without it being boring clan things both can easily agree on or a large fight. Hopefully they can now work through everything in the next series after both going through Hell.
So basically you're saying Bramblestar's character was retconed. Honestly, im inclined to agree with you. Bramblestar's Storm is my 2nd favorite super edition because I adore his characterization in that book. Sigh. I've seen your video and I've seen Moonkitti's video and I kind of agree with both of you? But I don't blame Brambeclaw for his treatment of Squirrelflight after finding out the kits weren't his. I blame LEAFPOOL. She KNEW StarClan lied to Squirrelflight about her being "barren" and she knew they did it so that Squirrelflight would feel guilty enough to keep Leafpool's secret, which is beyond fucked, and she was complicit in Bramblestar's treatment of Squilf in Squirrelflight's Hope. I. Blame. Leafpool. She is NOT a good sister and she is not a good person. Quiet, I'd like to see you make a video about her.
I do not fully agree with this video but tbh I don’t wanna go down that rabbit hole in a comment section
😐ok
Speaking of Onestar, did you all hear that he is getting a super edition this year INSTEAD OF RIVERSTAR?!
Sorry if any of you like Onestar. I personally don't.
I was disappointed, too, even though I am personally not as invested in Dawn of the Clans era characters as the present ones. Onestar is one of the worst characters.
That being said, I am interested in some things this Super Edition could explain. One being why RiverClan attacked ThunderClan together with WindClan in Eclipse (it made no sense for RiverClan to attack them and neither Leopardstar nor Mistyfoot are mentioned to be there, so my headcanon is that Onestar just convinced a couple of warriors to help them), and how did he hooked up with Whitetail, who used to be his apprentice; I am interested in how such relationships are viewed as there is only one other I can think of (Sharpclaw and Cherrytail), possibly because in this fanfiction I am planning the main character develops a crush on his mentor (hijinks ensue! xD). Already the excerpt was interesting, especially the Allegiances: Bluefur being confirmed as Runningwind's mentor, Redtail being Mousefur's, Darkstripe being confirmed a kit of Willowpelt and only kit in the litter, and mentors of Stonefur and Mistystar^^
So maybe it won't all be bad?
Honestly i think that squirelfligh dserves beter
She doesn’t.
@@FantasticFawnleap She does.
@@grief860 no she doesn’t!
Gosh, Imagine someone getting into these books first. I got into Power of Three before the first series-
This video was VERY well done, and made me feel a bit for Brambleclaw/star, but not enough to excuse abuse
reason why brambleclaw didn't talk to mothwing is cuz she is a medicine cat. He doesn't know that she can't reach starclan at this time so he didn't want to bother her with his problem. She probably doing something important is how I thought he saw her. Besides mothwing as stated is a beautiful golden cat and it weird that only the boys look like their father. Bet you most cats forgot that mothwing was even related to tigerstar and same with tawnypelt. All cuz they don't look like him. it not like he could talk with leafpool about his problems with squirrelflight. She is her sister. So it true when you said he had no one to talk to. No wonder he has problems with expressing his emotions before he become a jerk.
It's always a good day when Quiet Rage uploads a video.
Yo!! the legend is backkk!!
I clicked as soon as I got the notification.
Nah dawg he doesn't get to emotionally abuse people around him and get written off for being young and stupid. That may be a part of it, but it's not an excuse. It's like Starclan saying Ashfur was just "heartbroken"
I have not read any book where Bramble is already a leader, but from what I have heard, it is horrible. Like you, I prefer to think of Brambleclaw and Bramblestar as two different characters.
I don't know, it hurts me a lot to hear what they did to a character with so much potential. I had already commented on it in the Moonkitti video, but his character is not rational in any sense. Originally Bramble not only wanted to gain the trust of his clan, but to be the opposite of his father, when he saw what his ambition and his decisions did to him, but somehow he became worse than Tigerstar and the opposite of the example Firestar was.
I was never a fan of BramblexSquirrel, the character of Squirrelflight was a bit annoying for me and I really felt that their relationship was more boring and a bit forced. It's really sad to see how this ship ended up.
Bruh, I had a friend who was in a toxic relationship, and at least 6 friends of hers (including myself) told her to break up with him, gave her reasons why she should, and comforted her whenever she ended up crying because she knew it was true. But she kept going back, and eventually we got so annoyed at her (cause that guy was the only thing she talked about) that we all left HER. At least it made her recognize what her relationship with him did to her life and shebroke up forever with him, but now she found someone else. Also abusive.
Unfortunately that’s a very common thing for abuse victims, keep coming back to their abusive exs or getting in abusive relationships. It could be for multiple reasons, whether it’s Stockholm syndrome, believing things will be better or change this time, or even thinking that the abuse is suppose to be normal. I hope your former friend will get the help she needs in the future and break out of the hellish cycle she’s in.
This series is the reason I’ve started writing and learned how to write compelling stories. Not because the series is good, but because of all the poor writing decisions and character assassinations that have showed me how NOT to write a story. The Erins have became so idiotic with the writing (cough* Kate being a Bramblestar simp that she utterly butchers his character*cough) that it’s so infuriating. People keep blaming the actual characters when in actuality, the Erins are COMPLETE IDIOTS!!! This is why I’m no longer reading the books after TBC, because they keep making the same amateur writing mistakes and it gets me so heated that my head hurts.
Sorry for the negativity. It’s just…. I’m done with these books 🤦♀️
But seriously! What about Mothwing, Brambleclaw literally pretends she doesn't exist, even though it could be so interesting for him to know a medicine cat, and one who is romantic with his mate's sister!
Dude why would he want to do that when his full blood sister left him for another clan!
@@FantasticFawnleap it would just be interesting if he at least acknowledged her existence.
Quite Rage: *Gets pissed off*
Snow: *gives Quite Rage cookies and milk to calm her down*
I have a crossover Au involving Warriors (what fandom isn't important, albeit I'll let people guess in replies if they want to), and Bramblestar is the closest cat to protagonist it gets for most of it. As soon as I found out about the whole Squirrelflight's Hope fiasco, I considered scrapping said AU. But I realized that Squirrelflight basically has no counterpart in the other fandom, meaning that BrambleSquirrel never happened in it. It still is stuck in the back of my mind that it would come under fire because Bramblestar's a main character, but I think that anyone in the right mind can separate the two fandoms and figure out that the ship never happened at all in the AU.
Re the cold shoulder. It doesn't matter if it was unintended or he did it because he was struggling with his own emotions. It's still abuseive.
Uh no dude!
@@FantasticFawnleapuh, yes dude!
@@MartiniiYeah uh no!
I was hoping Bramblestar was killed so badly in the new arc but instead he only lost 1 life out of 9
[ Image of DC and Warrior Cats shaking hands with text covering their handshake saying: ' Making a character that starts with 'B' abusive unintentionally' ]
Anyways, I liked the video!
Yeah, I sometimes wonder why I continue to read these books as well.
Erin hunter honestly ruined my favorite character brambleclaw and now I hate his character.
I hate Squirrel!
@@FantasticFawnleapwhy?
@@kittygirl0872 what do you mean why!?
@@FantasticFawnleap why do you hate squirrelflight?
@@kittygirl0872 why not really the real question is why do people love her so much she’s not that great!!
I’m going to get a ton of flak for this, but I do not see Bramblestar as abusive. I’ve read SqH multiple times, and I’m reading it again now, and they both aren’t right. While I like your comparison from Bluestar and Fireheart to Bramblestar and Squirrelflight, it doesn’t really fit well. From the first few pages, there’s already several problems. If you read it closely, Bramblestar was never angry at Squirrelflight for having her own opinions or for disagreeing with him; he was furious that she publicly disagreed with him instead of talking it over first with him and coming to the Clans with a plan. He even admits that she may be right, but wanted to talk it over with her first. I mean, the SkyClan debate was a huge problem, not just some quick dispute that could be easily sorted out. Leafpool herself agrees with his perspective, and really, it isn’t as senseless as some might think. This is a matter of Clan politics. If you read about other deputy-leader interactions throughout the entire Warriors series, excluding Bluestar and Fireheart, because at that point Bluestar was extremely unstable, you will see that they don’t contradict each other before the Clans. In human politics, you’ll see that the VP will back up the President, and in order for it to be most effective, they discuss plans together and psh them at once. It’s only if the President is completely off the mark (cough cough inciting an insurrection) where it makes more sense for a politician to contradict them publicly. But Squirrelflight, throughout this book, repeatedly undermines Bramblestar’s authority, while he was desperately trying to keep the peace. If you noticed, she goes off to talk to Leafstar without even asking him. She just assumes that he’ll dislike everything she says without even asking him. And as I stated earlier, he never told her that she couldn’t confide in him and come up with a plan, only that before the other Clans, who are constantly seeking weakness, they should be united in pushing a plan. Again, that doesn’t cover the whole book, but that’s the first section of my analysis. If you doubt it, then I suggest reading the first 40-50 pages of SqH to understand. I feel like everyone’s kinda just hopped on the abuse bus without doing a close read of the book, and a lot of that comes from people using their “authority” as an abuse survivor to make claims, and creates a situation where it’s hard to argue with them because, I mean, who would want to tell someone who has lived through something horrific that they are wrong? From a surface perspective, it may look problematic, but if you actually pay attention and do a deep read, it’s pretty justified.
OMG a new Quiet Rage upload?! She’s alive?!
Imagine being in an abusive relationship with a guy that you liked before they changed, having to hide that your kids are actually adopted from both your spouse and kids and having your ex, who is a type a “nice guy” stalk you around every corner, that also probably has a shrine of you with your eyes crossed out in his closet
Yeaaaaah, I’d probably be in a corner crying every day
SHESSSS BACKKK
As much as I like dark themes, I also find it disgusting that the current era of Warrior Cats took domestic abuse and grooming and did both so poorly and the Erins completely missing the point of the problems, if not unintentionally gaslighting. If I wanted a book series that tackles the issue about abuse, I would have read a different series