The riverclan stuff, the illegal kits and relationship that Graystripe had and he defended, feeding and protecting others who were in danger that is still against the code for some reason, like seriously? I get he’s the protagonist of the first series but like… CMON?????
Frecklewish: *Didn't jump in a river that would probably have killed her and the kits prob would have drowned anyway* Story Team: Go straight to cat hell Rainflower: *Abused and neglected her kit because he hurt himself* Story Team: Yeah of course, go to cat heaven
EXACTLY! She emotionally abused *her own child due to his appearance* Freckle would probably of died because she can’t swim/saw her own family drown (trauma) It’s sad honestly, she isn’t a saint, but she’s not a monster like everyone else in the DF, she’s stuck down there *in hell* because something that’s not her fault
@@IronycheinPain She could have helped Mapleshade, call for help, she just watch them die. She was violent with Mapleshade when she was pregnant literally when she got exiled, she loved Mapleshade kitten just because their father was her brother, for real she can't be excused, she don't deserve cat hell but she don't deserve forgiving either
@@UndersCatts27 uhhh no? She was never hostiIe to MapIeshde during pregnancy; she was cIingy The onIy reason she was hostiIe in the exiIe was thanks to her beIieving MapIeshade that Birchface was the father, Ietting that fester her in the heat of the moment And she couIdn't save MapIeshade if she wanted to because of the fIash fIood AND because she aIready saw a RivercIan patroI, aka the cats who actuaIIy *can* heIp, and even then it's onIy so much before they wouId have faIIen victim to the storm as weII. AIong with caIIing for heIp, have you heard how Ioud fIash fIoods and rains are? They're horribIy deafening so it's no surprise that FreckIe caIIing wouId not heIp And even if you count her death with her words to MapIeshade, remember that MapIe IiteraIIy taunted her to wish her dead because as far as she was aware, it was onIy MapIeshade in the water (the kits couId IiteraIIy not be seen since they were aIready taken by the river) IiteraIIy her onIy vaIid crime here was that she was angry at MapIeshade and her kits, and even then, it couId weII be expIained with the fact this was mentaI whipIash knowing she beIieved these were Birchface's kits and not his supposed murderer's
i totally agree, it sucks that mapleshade's vengance, a really well-written book about her walk into madness, was twisted into something pushing frecklewish into the darkforest. because if we do that, it's taking what mapleshade thought of in her head as true. that's totally taking a pee on the writing of one of the best books. she was insane. she needed people to blame. frecklewish is no saint, but she doesn't deserve hell.
I have a theory/headcanon. Frecklewish went to StarClan but she crossed the dark forest border to try and make amends with Mapleshade. But Mapleshade’s insane and doesn’t let her go home and holds Frecklewish hostage in the dark forest
If I remember correctly Victoria Holmes said that all of the cats in Thunderclan in Mapleshade's vengeance are all in StarClan (well everyone except Mapleshade) so the "story team" changed it out of pure vibes
@@dragonstouch1042 Yep! She uses it to go kill cats. So it's weird that she didn't use it to cross across the river with her kits. It's been there for awhile.
@Moon Sure, but the way they did it, it's just a plothole that makes no sense. If they wanted to do that, they could have said that the bridge had been destroyed during the flash flood or something and the cats couldn't cross it, or come up with some other explanation. But since they didn't, it's just laziness.
19:37 Going by the story team's logic, Russetfur and her patrol should've been sent to the Dark Forest because they watched Berrykit struggle and lose his tail to a fox trap. Remember, the warrior code says that kits should be SAVED, regardless of clan heritage, so they can't use the "he was going to live anyway excuse." And even if they want to go on the logic by stating "he wasn't a clan cat", he was staying by Thunderclan at this point, and Thrunderclan was patrolling to FIND him. This just proves that the Warrior Cats team (in general) just sucks at continuity and proves that they are only just milking the series to death. Fandom is pretty cool tho.. Edit: Also wanted to add that if Thunderclan`s patrol didn't find him in time and Shadowclan was just watching Berrykit struggle, he could've died from blood loss or infection... Care to explain story team??
I said the same during the premiere. It’s telling how cherry picky they’re being. In reality there would be a significant increase of cats in the DF if every little rule broken meant instant damnation no matter what. I don’t even think Firestar would’ve made it with their logic.
@@legrandliseurtri7495 Omg finally someone who remembers that! And yeah, the writers need to start remembering stuff like this! Also Mistystar is the result of a half clan relationship and yet gets mad and exiles two of her warriors for breaking the code? The writers need to go back and read the damn books their writing!
return of the queen! also a side note: “frecklewish immideately snarls she wishes mapleshade was dead” no she didn't? mapleshade literally had to taunt frecklewish for her to say that. mapleshade said something on the lines of “or do you like watching innocent kits die?” before frecklewish leaps at her and says that she wishes mapleshade was dead. just another case of lies on the story team's end
the exact passage here - mapleshade does indeed taunt her. Mapleshade sniffed. “I don’t believe you! You’re a fox-hearted coward. I bet you’re glad they are dead!” Frecklewish bounded toward Mapleshade, her eyes flashing with anger. “I wish you were dead!” she spat. “You betrayed my brother’s name!” Mapleshade dodged sideways just as Frecklewish lunged at her. With a yelp, the she-cat stumbled into the pile of stones. Before she could find her footing, there was a hiss and a sleek dark green head darted forward, tongue flicking. “Adder!” gasped Frecklewish. There was a blur of movement, then Frecklewish staggered backward, screeching. “It bit me! Help!” “Like you helped my kits?” Mapleshade growled. “Never! I hope you die in agony!” Frecklewish yowled again, a wordless shriek of pain.
As someone who saw what the flash floods did in southern British Columbia in November getting mad at Frecklewish for not jumping into a flash flood is like getting mad at her for not running into a forest fire
Exactly I understand that some people want to be heroes but a flash flood is extremely dangerous and I saw how it looks like on tv and blaming and shaming frecklewish for not helping is straight up bs
you're absolutely right. flash floods have occurred near where I live, and I can say with absolute certainty that flash floods are no joke. so frecklewish wasn't on the wrong
Another thing to remember is that Frecklewish's brother - Birchface - died *when he fell in the river.* Like, I don't blame Freckle (who can't swim, who saw RiverClan coming and likely only barely saw the kits *before* they got swept in) for not going in the water. If my sibling had drowned in that same river, I wouldn't want to go in.
As a guy who lives on a prairie and had traveled to a river before (multiple times), the difference between a flood and a flash flood is this: Flood: Usually gradual, though sometimes faster. Mainly like filling a bowl to the top and pouring over. River can run normally. Flash flood: Sudden flooding. Usually, this is caused by too much rain or water being poured into an area (like a river or grassland). Water becomes violent in its current, and the wind may only worsen it. Flash floods lower to standard flooding before returning to normal. TL;DR: Flash flooding is more violent and dangerous than flooding. Like a brass knuckle punch compared to a slap.
Like moonkitti stated in her video, water safety trips teach us to not just go into the water to save somebody, to stay safe, so you don't risk two lives. And that's what frecklewish did. and somehow she goes to cat hell for choosing the right choice. Warriors story team really has lost it this time. (Edit: I got bored of warrior cats anyway to move to wings of fire, way much better. I recommend it.)
What you said about the original books being about challenging the authority of the warrior code\starclan finally shined a light on exactly why I dislike the recent books. The way that cats just blindly follow the warrior code\starclan in the later books, especially in the more recent ones is downright scary. Mistystar was willing to let go of a SEASONED medicine cat for committing the sin of... being born, and let go two amazing warriors for not following her orders when she was wrong and proved to be wrong, which Mothwing obviously had an issue with and refused to go back to Riverclan for very valid reasons, but the entire time everyone's telling her that she's being petty... despite the fact that her leader abandoned and ostracized her... for being born. Firestar in the original books knew when a cat's wellbeing trumped the warrior code, or starclan, and I feel like this is a moment where challenging authrority makes sense, you cant convinceme that not a single cat had issues with Mistystar's decision. Not to mention that (spoiler alert) after Bristlefrost gave up her EXISTENCE for the sake of the clans futures, cats were still arguing that Bristlefrost wasn't a worthy warrior because she broke the code by falling in love with someone from a different clan. I was so shocked when I read that. I get that they're setting up that the cats are thinking about reworking the warrior code (so they need to write opposing arguments), but there's no way you can convince me that every single cat there was more focused on Bristlefrost's traitorous acts then the fact that she saved the clans.
Seeing as StarClan's dumbassery nearly caused the end of themselves and the entire forest this past arc, I really hope the coming one doesn't end with them believing in StarClan again.
Honestly since I saw that they give 3 months to clans to create a new code I blew up out of rage I completely lost faith in starclan and never trust them again
I have a storyline that involves some vengeful descendants of BloodClan cats just end up deleting Firestar's bloodline by assassination over time. ThunderClan takes a heavy blow, but I did spare some cats from the "assassinated" fate: Jayfeather dies of old age shortly before the BloodClan Avengers start their murdering, and Nightheart manages to figure out that his ancestry would get him killed and bails: pretty much "screw the Clan, screw my family, I'm saving myself". I'd like to think he eventually starts to believe StarClan is bullshit and becomes a barn cat or kittypet, and when he dies he goes happily to their afterlife (if kittypet, maybe even meeting Jake and seeing where his family first began).
Oo I made a Warrior Cats Au/story (it's name is Warrior Cats The Generations Far Far Away that takes place 5 billion years after Warrior Cats on another planet) where StarClan has a leader who dissolved into tyranny… He sent anyone he didn't like to the new Dark Forest and the ones he likes all go to StarClan eventually everyone who was noticing how StarClan helped some cats (some of which are evil) and punished others snapped and went to the new Dark Forest to finally start a rebellion against StarClan
Why are they talking about StarClan as if they're a real group of people(?) and not a plot device for the series. Also why isn't Rainflower in kitty cat hell??
Omg the story team frustrating me rn. Frecklewish was not innocent but they blatantly lied about what she did. She didnt fucking see larchkit she didnt see ANY of the kits. So many cats should be in the DF if this is the logic. But freckle just shouldn't be there anyway. Is an interesting concept but not with the way they're treating it. Another thing, if we can't even trust the story team to keep eye colour or collar colour consistent, why should we trust their word on the debate of a character created not by them who serves as death fodder for Mapleshade?? Especially when their take has blatant lies and say things that don't happen in the book.
Me I literally burst out of rage and I know that when I am going to read the 7th cycle in French I will be beyond rage ugh story team is just blantanly doing everything to make us mad
The funniest part about everything recently is that the sTory tEam blames their mistakes on the cats in the books that THEY wrote e.g. ashfur going to starclan and every other starclan mistake they say "oH well lOoks LiKe sTAaaaaAarclan did an oOpsies!"
I can actually see how this would work, I like to write stories, and once you’ve given a character or group of characters a personalily you have to stick with it, whether you actually want to write it that way or not. But the reason that doesnt work is they’ve changed a character’s personality before, or just taken it before. And they make cats do lots of things their character’s would not have done.
Ashfur: *tries to kill 4 cats because he couldn't take rejection* StarClan: Sure. Come on in. Rainflower: *abuses and neglects her own son for an injury* StarClan: Welcome to Cat Heaven! Frecklewish: *doesn't cause herself to drown to save Mapleshade's half-clan children* StarClan: Nope. You're going to Cat Hell. Seriously? By that logic, Russetfur should have gone to the Dark Forest for not helping Berrykit.
Kate even said that Tom, the same cat who lied to his mate (never told her the humans would take away her kits) to keep her with him, phisically abused his housemate 'cause she told the truth, kidnapped the kits and caused his mate's death (as Turtle Tail was running to search the stolen kits when she got on the road) by doing that and, always by Kate's words, could have possibly abused the kits to have power over Turtle Tail and considered them simple property ("That's why One Eye hurting one of them was unacceptable", quoting her blog)... went to a "kittypet heaven" and other kittypets would tell him how to be gentler.
Honestly, corrupt StarClan seems like a really cool concept, twisting and manipulating the clans into worshipping them, only to go back on their word and condemn innocent cats to an existence of hunger, fear, and eventual death 2.0, while horrible cats live happily in the light to keep the cycle going. I have this idea that they send cats who question this process or StarClan's morality straight to the Dark Forest by default so they can continue with their twisted scheme. Erins, if you ever need an extra writer, hit me up!
I thought of that before. I'm a bit of an AU addict (I mean, my main comment on this video is me describing my AU based on the whole Frecklewish thing where Patchkit lives unbeknownst to Mapleshade), but it's such a common one I couldn't help but put my own spin on it. A bunch of older StarClan cats (think Gray Wing, the OG leaders, maybe even Star Flower if she wasn't already going to the Dark Forest for some of her sins) basically abandon StarClan and go to the Dark Forest of their own wills, sticking together so none get lost. I should note that the whole "Dark Forest literally influences you to be a bad person" thing doesn't happen in this version of the AU. Over time, Dark Forest cats basically start joining the parade because there's so many there who were only there because they questioned the kitty god overlords, to the point where cats who were sent there for legitimate crimes also joined because they thought it was absolutely backwards even with the morality of a serial killer. Now, considering StarClan has a bit of a twisted sense of humor and likes sentencing the living cats to harsh conditions, a lot of cats leave the Clans, whether they were kicked out for advocating religious freedom or not: some even did crime to make sure no one would want them back in the Clans. The rebel spirits' plan? Basically rewrite the allegiances of the living. Because there were high-ranking StarClan cats (probably a lot considering the relatively-large cast of Dawn of the Clans), they were going to strip the high ranks of the living clans from their positions and put the ones who question StarClan in power. And if the corrupt StarClan cats did anything about, they'd do it again: and due to the whole "high-ranking StarClan cat" thing (based on age and influence, so the real early birds are high ranks by default), they can't be sent to cat hell by the others. It's an endless cycle until all the bad StarClan cats fade, and then anyone who helped them out gets to go back to the stars with them: it's only fair, after all, with their change of heart to make sure no one else suffered anymore. My version went through a lot of iterations, it even started with the Dark Forest taking the bodies of rogues Ashfur-style (except the fact they asked nicely first, because why wouldn't they if they don't want to be seen as bad?) and using them to convince the living Clan cats to up and leave: and if they had absolutely no other choice, they'd steal the kits. Gotta teach them young, as they all say, and it's a lot easier to deprogram cult mindsets from the kits. The latter wouldn't be their favorite, but they'd do it if needed. Albeit that's basically scrapped now, I still want to use it somehow.
Recently, I finally read Mapleshade’s Vengeance and I can definitely say, no she absolutely does not deserve to be there, if you say she should be there, what about Russetfur and the cats who saw Berrykit lose his tail? What about Rainflower who abused and neglected her son? It’s all just a mess and extremely aggravating in my eyes
Oak star is in Starclan because he was a leader who benefitted Starclan meanwhile Freklewish was the perfect scapegoat. In other words it’s all because of the fact the cats have a government in both life and the afterlife.
Yea,, it's victim blaming. Mapleshade took advantage of Frecklewish. In fact, Mapleshade manipulated all her victims. And she mistreated her kits. The only cats at fault are Mapleshade and Oakstar. I'm aware this is a few months old news, but words cannot describe how angry it makes me. (I can kinda relate to Frecklewish, because I've dealt with many toxic people in the past. Which is why I'm so upset about this)
@MlechnyyKub I agree. I actually completely changed my mind about Frecklewish. Oakstar still shouldn't have exiled kits, but I don't think it's necessarily his fault.
I understand that as times change, views on characters will as well, even on the author's part. For example, Bramblestar's treatment of Squirrelflight was seen as normal for a while, but people soon saw it as abusive. There have also been new views on characters such as Mapleshade, Thistleclaw, and Blackstar, for better or for worse. It's okay to have new opinions. It brings new ideas to the table and can be genuinely useful. Regardless, that does not justify that Frecklewish deserves to be in the dark forest. It is hypocrisy to put her into the dark forest at this point. If she's in the dark forest, then a bunch of other cats should be too: Russetfur, Bluestar, Blackstar (before redemption), pretty much every cat who saw Snowkit die... the list goes on. A majority of these characters are from the first four series. During that period of time, a cat breaking the code *once* wouldn't have necessarily landed them in the dark forest; only multiple code violations did. This is why Thistleclaw and Brokenstar are in the dark forest and Russetfur isn't; they hurt kits multiple times while the latter only did so once. If StarClan believed in second chances around the time of Mapleshade's Vengeance, why change the rules now? It makes no sense to me and it's very reckless of the writing team to try and change something that has been set in stone for nearly a couple of decades now. I hope that, if they are going down this route, that they at least do something creative with this. Having her go through a redemption arc would be very interesting, since the recent books have demonstrated themes of it. However, if Frecklewish is nigh used again, then the decision to place her in hell was completely pointless. If that's the case, readers can continue to assume that Frecklewish is in StarClan. Changing something this small for no reason would be a pitiful and even spiteful decision on the half of the writing team, and I will be disappointed if her placement in the dark forest is reduced to nothing but a side note.
Russetfur nonchalantly, possibly even happily, watched Berrykit struggling in pain as his tail was caught In the fox trap. Refusing to help him only because he wasn’t clan born! Russetfur isn’t clanborn either! And yet she’s In StarClan even though she broke the same code as Frecklewish, but she did it deliberately!
I think us fans need to start boycotting the new book. I don’t want Warriors to end, but it either needs to be put out of its misery or get a serious reboot.
And the thing is, how could she have known the kits were drowning in the water? They were taken by the current immediately and were out of sight in an instant, and it was heavily raining, how could she have known? And even if she had seen the kits in the water, what was she supposed to do? If she tried to save them herself, she could've easily drowned along with the kits, accomplishing nothing. If she had left to get help, it would've been too late anyway, and she SAW the Riverclan cats across the way, so of course she'd assume they'd help so there'd be no need to get help if it was already there?
Also why does Russetfur get a free pass? She literally watched a kit (berrynose) in pain when she could’ve done something but no, all she did was watch him. The river washed Mapleshade and her kits away, Frecklewish wouldn’t have been able to see them
It would been better if was oakstar in the dark forest instead of frecklewish because he one broke one of warrior code because he lash out all his anger and rage on this poor innocent kits because he won’t go the hatred he had on appledusk for killed his son, birchface.
and frecklewish was grieving because in the book in of Mapleshade Vengeance she told mapleshade that she couldn’t get over the death of her brother and she was very excited to think this kits were her brothers but when she found out that mapleshade her clanmate/friend lied make her believe that her brother was the father when turn out it’s cat who accidentally or killed her brother so course she would be out rages but with grief and sadness.
Plus it have taught Oakstar a very hard lesson to not let his rage,angry and his pride cloud his mind which then ending up getting three kits drowned and die While Frecklewish has very hurtful when she found that mapleshade kits dead but the one thing would Oakstar feel bad for what he did?
Making a full comment on this. I will always believe that Mapleshade was the only one at true fault. -She chose to become mates with a cat from another Clan, a Clan that ThunderClan was having issues with at the time. -She chose to lie & use a grieving sister to her advantage instead of telling her she's not telling who the father is. Which is in fact a RIGHT Queens have, they don't have to tell ANYONE WHO THE FATHER OF THEIR KITS ARE. Mapleshade could have used that to her advantage right from the start! -She chose to cross a river full of flash flood water during a deafening rainstorm when there was in fact a bridge over yonder SHE KNEW ABOUT AS WE SEE LATER ON IN THE BOOK! While every other cat did do bad or something questionable, at the end of the day Mapleshade was the one who had chosen to do the things she did. -Oakstar may have banished her, but it was Mapleshade's action to bring her kits to the river. -Ravenwing might have misread the omen, but it was Mapleshade who made it come true in the end. -Frecklewish may have chewed her out & said terrible things, but it was Mapleshade's action to lie & manipulate her into believing a part of her brother, someone we can all see she quite clearly cared for deeply, was alive. If Mapleshade had crossed the bridge or even waited, her kits would likely have lived past that day, Ravenwing's omen wouldn't have came true, Appledusk likely wouldn't have been so angry with her & might have picked her over Reedshine. Everything falls at Mapleshade's paws. It was Mapleshade's actions that bit her in the ass. While I'm here & bored I'ma write down an Appledusk defense as well since I've been seeing people out right lie about him in this fandom. Yes, Appledusk cheated. Cheating is bad kids. But that's the worst he does in the whole story, you don't need to LIE about things to make him look worse than he already did by default, Warrior Cat fandom! I've seen people claim "Appledusk disrespected his kits". Like, where? I've read this story like over three times & NOWHERE in the WHOLE BOOK hints to that AT ALL. We in fact see & get the opposite. -Appledusk is kind & proud of the kits when he first meets them. He shows no dislike, disrespect, or hate towards them. He likes them. -When we get to the scene at the river he jumps into the water as soon as Mapleshade tells him, he doesn't wait around as Mapleshade says later on. -When the kits bodies are brought back to camp, he's gentle with the kit he's carrying. He doesn't PLOP the kit on the floor, or scoff once the body has been place, he's quiet here. -Appledusk chews out Mapleshade HARSHLY, harshly like a grieving father likely would in the same situation. I don't see how he disrespected the kits at all? If ANYONE in RiverClan disrespected the kits it was Darkstar for not letting their mother mourn them properly, not Appledusk. I am also going to add to the chewing out scene with Appledusk & Mapleshade, as I said in the live chat Appledusk is a cat who knows how to swim & likely knows how water works in terms of like a lifeguard, much like the rest of RiverClan. If your cat wife from another Clan gets the bright idea that crossing RAPID FLASH FLOOD WATERS is somehow a good idea, but also GOES THROUGH WITH IT, which in turn gets THREE CHILDREN KILLED, when you know better & likely expect others to know better, you would be pissed & angry as well because in your eyes your cat wife just willing killed your children without a second thought. I don't blame Appledusk for being angry here, I WOULD BE ANGRY HERE TOO. Then we have the Birchface event. Appledusk is our only close POV of this part of the battle. The only other being the victim himself, Birchface. There's nothing on either side whether or not Appledusk killed him & it'll likely be one of those mysteries that will never be answered. Unless the ""story team"" wants to give us a canon answer, which even then I will not trust given recent events - murder or accident. We can't trust RiverClan because they want to look strong in front of ThunderClan, & we've seen the Clans lie in order to do that. We can't trust ThunderClan because they just lost a well loved & liked warrior among their ranks, making them likely too blind to see anything else but red here. Whole thing gets even more mudded when we have Appledusk say it was an accident. Which he could be lying, but he could also be telling the truth. The best we can do is see what we have of his character & come to a conclusion from there. Which I think is the best action to take here given how vague it is. I should also add, Appledusk did care about the two cats who he chose as mates. Even when Mapleshade appears before him to kill him, he doesn't attack her, he just tells her to leave & nothing else. He only gets in the way when Mapleshade goes to attack & kill Reedshine, which in turn gets him killed instead. I personally believe that by protecting Reedshine from "Death by Mapleshade", he chose a forever mate in the end, which was Reedshine. He finally chose to be faithful to someone. And to be honest that's all I wish for cheaters to learn, have them become faithful to someone who they truly care about & I think he finally reached that end of his story. Kinda strange to see a hidden character arc like that so overlooked by fans, at least I read/saw it as some hidden arc. Sorry for the long ass post, really just wanted to get my thoughts out lol.
@Moon No he called the relashionship between HIM and MAPLESHADE. He was sad but quiet about the kits but readably angry that she got them killed. And I can't justify Frecklewish but y'all excuse Mapleshade because of grief, well Freckle was doing that out of grief too and while its bad, it's not as bad as murder so..... Also Freckle did care and was upset at the news of kits' deaths
@Moon What Frecklewish said was bad, never said it wasn't. However she likely wouldn't have called them that if Mapleshade hadn't lied to her & use her & Birchface's name as some shield for them. Using someone else as a shield, especially when that person is dead & you're taking advantage of their mourning sibling is going to get a NASTY reaction when they come to terms that you had LIED TO THEM. Worst part is that we don't even know if she actually truly meant or if it was a just a heat of the moment thing which with the line "I didn't mean for them to die" kinda hints to that Frecklewish never wished harmed onto those kits. & looking at the scene right now: "You knew about these kits?" Darkstar asked. The tip of her tail was twitching. Appledusk nodded, and Reedshine let out a soft wail. "Mapleshade told me she would raise them in ThunderClan," Appledusk meowed. "I... I knew I had made a mistake so I said nothing to my clanmates." This doesn't read like he's calling his kits a mistake, more like being with Mapleshade a mistake & that he came to that when he was given the news of their kits. Not the kits specifically themselves. He also goes on & says: "I should have never betrayed my Clan by meeting with Mapleshade," Appledusk went on. "I will regret it for the rest of my life." He's not talking about the kits here, he's talking about Mapleshade. He doesn't say "having the kits was a mistake" or that "the kits were a mistake" or anything else on the lines of it hinting towards any dislike towards the kits, it's all thrown at Mapleshade. If he really did think of them as mistakes in some way, we would & should have seen signs when he first met them or when he got news that Mapleshade was having them, but we didn't, at all, not even in the slightest.
@Moon Oh he was definitely an assfuckface but he did care about the kits and as for Frecklewish, well, you've heard all I'll say and I've heard all you'll say so let's just agree to disagree.
I'm not gonna lie I laughed at the mental image of a little baby chaotic ashpaw thinking he is being smooth trying to get with squirrelflight when in reality he is being a little cotton eyed toad.
personal headcanon (theory): frecklewish is used as a scapegoat, for the more powerful characters to pin the blame on for the whole mapleshade-situation and the deaths of the kits and now the story team has proven this might be just a theory or headcanon…
Not to mention, there was literally a heavy storm and flash flood. How could she see, hear, or smell anything about the kits when, from what we know, she barely just saw mapleshade and the riverclan patrol. She probably didnt even know to help.
One thing I'm not sure if you knew, but the Erin who made Mapleshade's Vengance, outright said she believed all of Mapleshade's victims actually went to Starclan, so the Story Team went against what she said and definitely as you said lied about communicating the the Erin's
I really love Mapleshade as a villain, I like the idea of sympathizing with her, but she’s no doubt evil and unjustifiable, frecklewish didn’t really do anything wrong but get mad
@@samfinnell6070 ikr haha, but I hope this doesn’t show up and this is false by the canon in the books, since we’ve never seen her in the dark forest hopefully it stays that way, then again she could have faded already
Yes! A Mapleshade lover who doesn't ignore nuances and fact based arguments. What a good day :D But seriously, yeah. Frecklewish did nothing to deserve going to the same place as fricken Brokenstar and Tigerstar lmao
@@zrainyday5266 ah yes, because someone who forces underage children to fight in a war definitely deserves to be in the same place as a she-cat who got mad in the heat of the moment XD
I can confirm that some cats mentioned on the website are still listed with a paw suffix. I only saw Bramblestar and Mothwing, but I may have missed one. Also, Bramble is described as "moral and devoted" O-O
Frecklewish should get her own unique super edition which demonstrates life in the dark forest. We can see her reflection of her past, the discussion of how unfair her placement there is, and other dark forest cats will get more fleshed out. The book should end with a redemption system being installed where dark forest cats can be rehabilitated. The first cats brought into starclan from the dark forest will be Maggottail, Silverhawk, Sparrowfeather, and, of course, Frecklewish.
Too bad they literally had Gray Wing or some old cat come up and say Dark Forest cats can't ever be redeemed. Even if they literally died trying to help Bristlefrost save their asses.
@@graphitetailgrace3870 (I know that this comment is over a year old, but I hate the characterization of dead cats in warriors) I hate that Gray Wing would be one of the spokescats in this scenario because it’s so /completely out of character/ for him. But of course it is. Everyone loses their personality and becomes a pawn of StarClan’s will once they join StarClan. His brother, Clear Sky, was arguably one of the worst cats in Dawn of the Clans (and by the inconsistent rulings of the books) would probably have gone to the Dark Forest, but Gray Wing appears to have forgiven him. Gray Wing of all characters absolutely /would not/ say that all Dark Forest cats are irredeemable. His brother was redeemed. The same opportunity could be presented for other Dark Forest cats. But of course it isn’t. You die, and then suddenly atonement and regret is locked and you can’t ever change it. Gray Wing would call this an injustice. But he doesn’t have an actual personality in the modern age so it’s okay according to the writing team.
You know something else stupid StarClan does? They literally threaten to cast Squirrel to the Dark Forest for lying to her clan about Lion, Jay and Holly when the ORDERED her to! That's just stupidity to another level. Another example you can use in future videos.
Considering one of the teammates, (Vicky Homes that is) Recently compared an even in Warriors (I.e. Fireheart going behind Bluestar’s back to warn Windclan about the dogs) to WHAT IS CURRENTLY HAPPENING WITH RUSSIA AND UKRAINE! I’ve lost faith in this series a bit. 😞
Frecklewish doesn’t deserve the darkforest for such a stupid reason. Y’all are saying she deserves to die/go to hell because she didn’t basically commit suicide. Y’all are being hypocritical saying she Broke the warrior code by neglecting a kit in danger but then turn around and don’t say anything about bluefur getting mosskit killed and Russetfur and the Shadowclan patrol watched berrykit struggling in a fox trap. She is not responsible for mapleshade’s idiotic decision of forcing young,tired,hungry kits to cross and flooded river. Thunderclan was not chasing immediately chasing them to get them off the territory. Many of you like argue and say that she followed them to the river and deliberately watched them drown. When that isn’t the case and it’s never been confirmed true in the book itself if you bother reading the mapleshade’s vengeance then you’d know that nettlepaw TOLD Mapleshade she followed them to make sure the left and that she never stayed. It was Mapleshade herself that assumed she watched them drown. And it’s already clear that she had completely lost her marbles and needed to shift the blame on someone other than herself for the death of her kits. But enough of that part, some people might say that if thunderclan found them then they would have killed them or they would have been killed by a fox or badger. Which that isn’t true either and I’ll explain why. Even if Thunderclan patrol found Mapleshade and her kits after the time limit, they wouldn’t of been seriously hurt or kill Mapleshade, especially with kits. Even protecting Mapleshade during her trial, when two warriors hauled Frecklewish off from attacking her. At worst, they would of given her a few warning bits or scratches, most likely would of simply lead them out of the territory. when Mapleshade is found trespassing after the kits’ deaths, she’s still offered by Frecklewish and Appledusk to leave peacefully before they called a patrol. Where they still likely to just chase her out, not kill her. Clan cats rarely kill cats just for trespassing, not even those outside of the code. And even if Mapleshade did go somewhere else besides the river her kits wouldn’t be in any danger because for one… 1. Mapleshade is a Clan cat, some of the best fighters around. She’s a fully trained warrior, who was noted to be the expected future deputy in the Ultimate Guild. She managed to scare away the kittypet from Chapter 7 with a single scratch. Local Rogues and Kittypets should be more scared of her, then she is of them. Mapleshade is fully capable of defending her kits from any outsiders just for one night. 2. Badger or fox attacks are also unlikely if she stays reasonably close to the Clan territory as Clan cats chase out all other predators. Idk what the hell the writing team is on for blaming frecklewish for the kits death when that isn’t even the case the cat directly responsible is Mapleshade herself. There was a bridge she could have cross and she knew about it as well because she cross that bridge She also could have went to two leg place for god sake. Some of y’all like to use the excuse that she couldn’t go to the two leg place because the kittypets were hostile since oakstar ordered “raids”on them. Oakstar only ordered one attack and it was because he’d been getting several reports from patrols beforehand they were being troublesome. Oakstar’s one attack on the kittypets took place in Pinestar’s choice, 3 years after Mapleshade was alive, which is a long time in cat time. When Mapleshade was alive, all the outsiders she did come across were Myler and a Kittypet during Chapter 7, where they were either a non-threat or actually friendly. Many people in this fandom believe that cats like Ravenwing,frecklewish, and Appledusk I don’t even know how the hell he’s to blame when he isn’t responsible for the kits death in anyway at all. People only believe this fact because over the 7 years since the book release there have been lies spreading about each of these cats mainly freckle and apple. The only reason people believe it is because Mapleshade shifting the blame. And I can provide hard evidence. Mapleshade is always shifting the blame on everyone else and doesn’t want to take responsibility for her actions. She even goes as far as to blame someone else for the death of her kits for a stupid Decision she made. When they are cast out it says that *Mapleshade thinks of Ravenwing as the murderer of her kits during her exile.* This is hard evidence of her shifting the blame and not taking responsibility for her own actions. Another example or her shifting the blame. *Mapleshade calls is this what he is looking for, and Appledusk stares at her in horror, reminding her she was supposed to leave the territory. Mapleshade tells him he is more mouse-brained than she thought, and accuses him of killing their kits. Appledusk, however, blames her for killing their kits, because she made them cross the river. Which is in fact true she forced her terrified kittens to cross raging flooded river because she was too impatient and don’t want to even prioritize her children’s safety first. People get furious at Appledusk for blaming the kits' death on Mapleshade. However, Mapleshade is guilty of doing the exact same thing, convinced Appledusk could of somehow saved all the kits: "He never wanted my kits, so he let them drown. He could have saved them, I know he could have!" - Chapter 8. She is absolutely delusional for thinking he could save three kittens from a flash flooded river. Just because they’re Riverclan cats doesn’t mean their immune to drowning and are perfect “ capable” of swimming in terrible waters. Appledusk,frecklewish,Ravenwing. None of these cats played a Direct part in her kits death. And as much as I hate him not even Oakstar is responsible. He may have exiled those kits but it was Mapleshade and herself alone who made the dumb decision of forcing her kits to swim across a flooded river when she literally had more then one option. All she cared about was what she wanted. She didn’t care about her kits at that moment and I’ll tell you why. She killed her kits and here proof of that. When they’re at the river she reveals and tells the kits who their father is and it is said that it was raining so hard Mapleshade had to close her eyes. In different words, it's storming too hard to cross the river normally. Petalkit is the first one she sends in. It's stated he went under almost instantly, and had to struggle to stay above water. She saw one of her kits struggle and yet she sent in her other two kits as well and follows soon after. They don't even get to cross to the second steppingstone before a giant wave sweeps all four of them into the water. Maple could have realised crossing the river with tired and hungry kits during a storm wasn't a good idea. If she desperatly wanted to go to RiverClan, she could have taken the bridge which was somewhere nearby. She could also have crossed to Shadow or WindClan, which also both would have been less risky. Both Shadow and WindClan are on good terms with ThunderClan in this book, while Riverclan isn't. Sure, her mate was in Riverclan, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea to cross over to enemy territory to seek shelter. She had several options, but due to her mind being fixed on Riverclan, she didn't see or want to see them. And when it was obvious it was too dangerous for at least her kits, she also pushed those signs away, only thinking about herself and wanting to be with her mate. This is what lead to her demise and the bad luck that slapped her in the face once she set foot in the raging river. That’s all thank you for reading my comment ;)
@@mightyleafster Aw thank you! I put a lot of effort into making this comment and gathering information because it’s so painfully annoying about how majority of this fandom blames these 4 cats for the death of the kits. When they had nothing to do with the direct deaths of these children. Ravenwing is is somewhat innocent. As the little guy was only doing his job and he gave Maple multiple chances to confess even though in the omen it showed that someone would get hurt however he didn’t know that the kits be exiled. Some people say that it’s the medicine cats job to give advice to the leader however in the warrior code it also states that the leaders word is law so he can’t speak up against him and I think alot of people have forgotten that rule. Oakstar the rage and heartbrokenness he felt are understandable but his decision of exiling the kits is a big no no although he isn’t responsible for their deaths either as again it was maple who forced them to swim. Frecklewish she is innocent as well she was pissed that maple lied to her. It really can’t be called lying though because frecklewish shouldn’t have assumed. But it somewhat makes sense why she assumed it because maple her best friend stayed unusually and suspiciously silent when she asked her about it. Maple even had four months to correct her and queens right to not reveal who fathered her kits. So pretty much she caused her own exile by believing that thunderclan would be ok with her having a forbidden mate let alone with the same cat who accidentally killed their clan mate. Appledusk is entirely innocent here out of these 4 since he didn’t even do anything wrong and somehow people blame him for the kits death and say he didn’t care about them. But him asking if Mapleshade meant to cross the river and blaming her shows how much he cares about his deceased children. So yeah basically half this fandom is filled with deranged lunatics who think cheating is a reason to die and that the other 3 deserve to die as well but they never give answers as to why ☕️🗿
The only reason I would have accepted Frecklewish wsa in The Dark Forest was if Frecklewish herself felt like she belonged there herself... not having other cats judging her, but her judging herself... but I also don't like that some cat's who go through redemption arcs or who learn to forgive themselves and heal from that cannot go to StarClan once they've been Dark Forest cats. I really miss how StarClan was in the beginning of the First Arc... I never liked the concept that there was a hell like place in the books instead of reincarnation to give the cat another chance to change and that they'd only ever reach StarClan once they'd proved themselves in one of their different lives that they finally got to rest there. Never liked the end of existence either... like that's fundamentally frightening esp for those that believe in an afterlife at all.
I know nearly all my comments on this channel have been related to my extreme hatred for the Dark Forest trainees, but with Frecklewish it's like they wanted to twist the knife further by showing me how a bystander, who physically couldn't do anything to save some kittens, is a villain. While known traitors to the Clans-who had to be _convinced by Ivypool_ to do the right thing-are StarClan material. Being unable to save kits is bad, but deceiving your leaders, selfishly trying to become better than everyone else, hiding like cowards when the consequences come, and being indirectly responsible for _multiple_ cat deaths is forgivable? What are the rules, Erins? WHAT ARE THE RULES?!?
@@sophietremblay3795 They literally committed the worst and most deadly codebreak of the entire series, I hate how it was glanced over in just two books. I hope to God it finally gets addressed when they start making changes to the Code.
now I imagine ashpaw threatening squirrelflight when the fire scene took place. a tiny apprentice and a grown cat. squilf could have just picked him up and thrown him into the fire. Holly's murder would have been so easy. OHNO! ashpaw getting lionpaw as a apprentice would have been pur chaos.
I've never read Mapleshade Vengeance plan too, but have heard the basic plot and like did the story team forget that mapleshade is written as an unreliable narrator its from her presepective of course to her everybody was at fault except for herself
Well the sole author was Vicky Holmes who left years before this but they didn't even bother to read MV and blatantly made up lies about Freckle. I honestly can't tell if this is just really bad PR because they are getting backlash or if they hired condescending idiots or both lol.
@@zrainyday5266 probably both but like MV is like a Novella correct, like it's not even a long book nor is it a hard read. They couldn't have taken a hot minute to look things up, apologize for the mistake and fix it. Like clearly they are Lazy and stubborn. MV takes a few generation in the past like you don't need to have read any other books to catch up on who she even is, it's just the one. Like yea there's like 80 books but you onl6 need to read the one.
@@Rikkiroo1008 Agreed. It does take some critical thinking to see past Mapleshade's assertions however it shouldn't be hard for literal grown adults to do. So yeah, just some stubborn corporate bumble-heads who don't know how to internet or google
Mapleshade is like that one kid that reminds the teacher about homework She’s that one women with the short blonde haircut and wants RiverClan’s manage Mapleshade is like that one kid who sticks wet gum underneath the table And she’s that one kid who eats glue sticks and claims it was sour spray in the mouth and ends up poisoning the classmates
Yep. Been there quiet. But this is why I usually just read the books and NOT the bs in the fandom. And why I do fanfic when it comes to the new books. Personally? I'm conflicted on frecklewish given how she was so radically obsessed with the kits and teaching them to seek revenge on riverclan before they're even born. So honestly? I can understand why mapleshade would be disgusted with her specifically because now that frecklewish knows appledusk is the father? She's probably happy to see the kits flailing around for their lives. At least that's probably how it looks to mapleshade anyways. Now by no means am I saying that's what was going through frecklewish's mind when she saw the family of four struggling but at the same time? I kinda wouldn't put it past her to have a small satisfaction. Mostly? I do think she was like "I feel sorry for you but I'm not jumping in to help in a hopeless situation." But given the behavior before their birth and after? It could be either one but I seriously doubt she would enjoy their suffering.
She didn’t see the kits struggle in the water. It was raining heavily and they’re said to be very small. So I heavily doubt she could have seen them after they were swept away.
This sucks, but I am also very disappointed that they gave no creativity up to the readers. Like, it would’ve been fine if they just said “it’s up to the readers!” But instead they basically say “Yeah, your interpretations are wrong this is the only right one.” Like what’s wrong with giving a opportunity for readers to come up with interesting ideas?
I really hope that in a starless clan a ton of StarClan cats like, Hollyleaf, Leafpool, Neddletail, etc. leave StarClan and turn into what Fallen Leaves is and help the clans in an even better way.
Frecklewish is a giant wasted occasion to show: PTSD (from seeing her brother's death) and what it does to you on pages and the giant fraud that is StarClan (or an interesting plot with her choosing to go in the DF out of guilt). After all Oakstar went in "heaven" (exile of a nursing queen and kits that are too young? Against the Code and he literally says: "With all of RiverClan, it had to be him?" 'cause he was acting out of feeling and not real justice and impartiality), Appledusk that broke the Code and showed in front of everyone that he could turn against his mate as easy as ever got away with it, Ashfur got in with the "Being obessed over someone is real love and he just got mad", Rainflower isolated and verbally attacked her own son (in a scene she insult him and tells him he'll never be like his brother) and made sure to give him and humiliating name out of nothing but sadism, Russetfur was ready to let a kit die (if the Thunderclan patrol didn't find Berrykit, he wasn't going to free himself and stop the bleeding with magical powers) and never showed remorse but got in and Kate even said that Tom, the same cat who lied to his mate (never told her the humans would take away her kits) to keep her with him, phisically abused his housemate 'cause she told the truth, kidnapped the kits and caused his mate's death (as Turtle Tail was running to search the stolen kits when she got on the road) by doing that and, always by Kate's words, could have possibly abused the kits to have power over Turtle Tail and considered them simple property ("That's why One Eye hurting one of them was unacceptable", quoting her blog)... went to a "kittypet heaven" and other kittypets would tell him how to be gentler. On the other paw: Mapleshade was mentally unstable, while killing is NOT justifiable only 'cause we sympathize with her, why should a psycopath obsessed over a she-cat be more forgivable than someone who couldn't reason like a lucid person (cat)? Frecklewish avoided killing herself and probably got some good ol' cliché flashback to her brother (I don't even like her character, that doesn't mean I appreciated the missed occasion). Everyone who killed another cat by accident still broke the Code, those who killed 'cause they wanted to were still granted forgiveness (I love Blackstar anyway and he does gets forgiven and doubt himself, but that doesn't change the past) the moment they changed in life, alright, Juniperclaw saved two lives (after not even killing anyone) and let himself drown to make amends, but he got still sent to Cat Hell and the only thing StarClan could say about cats who fought against Ashfur was: "What they did in death is not important. They should have had redeemed themselves in life!" spitting on their redemption (and poor Snowtuft, who died to do the right thing) while I don't recall cats like Rainflower asking forgiveness in life or doing something more than congratulating Crookedstar once (when he just became a warrior). At this point, I was expecting them to let him Tigerstar and forgive him with some moronic: "Mapleshade said she guided every step of his, so he was a poor little puppet" excuse. And let's not forget: lying to Squirrelflight to force her accept kits that could have been taken in with any other explanation and then putting her and her sisters on trial for the lies and such. There is one big occasion to do a good book with StarClan as protagonist and it's with Dark Forest ghosts who shouldn't have been there and living cats as well taking out the trash.
So in the logic of the story team rainflower, bluestar, russetfur's patrol, clear sky(remember his suggestion to kill the kits) should be in the dark forest
Would LeopardStar kinda count with the fact she allowed Tigerstar to have her own deputy along with Featherkit and Stormkit executed because they were half-clan?
12:48 it was. also I hate this so much I have a headcanon that frecklewish is in starclan because it’s not in the books so it still has some wiggle room Edit: just fixed the timestamp
As someone who has never read a Warriorcats book though have been following backlash through prominent Warriorcat creators (such as Moonkitti and Quiet Rage), it appears the main reason people stick around is the threat that the series could get better, although it doesn't. Media that is popular only because there is so much missed potential the fanfiction is 99.9% superior is the saddest reason for sticking with a series, in my opinion. Frecklewish, you didn't deserve this...
I love warriors and even the new books but sometimes I question whether or not the authors read what they put on their page (looking at you flamepaw who says that sorrelstripe mothered him even though it was daisy that mothered them, though that makes squirrlflights hope non-canon so that’s a plus)
The people who wrote that are Mapleshade apologists who believed her 100%. That, or the new authors genuinely just do not read the older books. Like lets be serious here for a moment. These new authors are trying to say that being smart and NOT rushing into an overflowing flooding rapid river when you CANT SWIM to attempt saving someone else, ESPECIALLY when people who CAN swim are there and already trying to help. No, Frecklewish wasn't perfect. But if she goes to the Dark Forest for not dying to try and fail to save kits, which would have just led to 4 deaths instead of 3, then why the hell is the leader who exiled said kits and their mentally unstable mother in Starclan? Why was Ashfur, who attempted murder of three clanmates and his leader, in Starclan? Why is Mudclaw, who led a coup with Hawkfrost to try and kill his leader and was literally smited by Starclan, in Starclan? Literally the only common thread here are that the worse cats who got into Starclan are toms and the one who went to the Dark Forest for actually being logical is a she-cat. I despise the fact that there are genuinely people who believe Frecklewish deserves hell for not dying in a failed attempt to save the kits.
This sums up my thoughts almost exactly. Like what was the story team thinking?? I personally believe that they put this out to stamp on the backlash and it was probably one or two people who weren't used to PR situations and messed up badly. What they should've done is changed the DF section and taken Freckle out or stayed silent. Mistakes happen and I'm sure the first option would have ended the backlash for the most part and the second option wouldn't've added fuel to fire the way the response did.
In my opinion, even though I don’t like the fact that Frecklewish called the kits “half clan” kits, I honestly think that her anger was justified. Because think about it, she had found out about her brothers horrible, horrible death. And was clearly still grieving as it’s shown in the books, and when she finds out that Mapleshade was having kits that was apparently “his”, she obviously wants to protect them right? Not only because they’re the only connection to her brother that she has left technically, but also because she wouldn’t want anything to happen to them. It’s clear by how she guards Mapleshade and the kits, and how she interacts before the exiling scene. So imagine, that the mother of the kits who you were protecting, who’s kits you thought were your dead brother’s kits, who you loved with all your heart, turned out to be LYING in everyone’s face. And before you say “oh but Mapleshade didn’t really say that the kits were Birchface’s”, the fact that she let that lie go on for much longer, the fact that she didn’t even DENY the claims, and that she basically made everyone, including Birchfaces family that those were his kits. THATS LYING. But anyway, so after all this, Frecklewish just absolutely EXPLODES with anger. And honestly? Rightly so. I don’t know ANYONE who would react calmly or rationally in that situation. Hell, if I were in her paws it would take the whole clan to get me off Mapleshade. She had literally spat lies in everyone’s face, including Birchface’s grave on top of that all to cover up her forbidden romance. Queen or not, that is still fucked up, and you still have to pay the consequences for your actions, rather if you’re a queen or not. I’m not saying that Frecklewish’s actions towards the kits were justified though. Since they weren’t even born when this whole thing started, and it is a fucked up thing to punish, and yell at someone all for being born. But that being said, I don’t think she deserved the dark forest. Not at all. Not in the slightest. And even if she did, why not put Oakstar there too? He was the one to exile the kits and Mapleshade. Well, Mapleshade was understandable, but the kits? Hell no. I don’t think that the “story team” has realized how much they fucked up with this single 4 paragraph article. And honestly? I’m hoping that people talk about this enough to where they can realize their mistake.
I have a feeling that the "story team" went on the defensive because they decided at some point to use Frecklewish as a villain for the new series & were desperately hoping to change people's minds so that they'd accept one of the said villains when she reveals herself...
Yeah, he blamed her for their deaths, the only thing that separates his response from Mapleshade’s is that he didn’t go murder mode (not excusing the cheating at all, he’s a bastard, but cheating is not an excuse for murder, especially since Mapleshade only got him because he took a death blow for Reedshine)
I think I read a fanfiction AU where Star clan became so corrupted that the clans fell apart, split up, and the few cats that were left called themselves groups rather than clans. And then they all got wiped out or something idk. I also don't know if that was even the plot. All I know is there were groups and no starclan or smth🚬🗿👍
If this happens to Wings of Fire I will DIE!!!!!! I love Warriors and WoF, but if any more of this- this GARBAGE is dumped out through books like Warriors and WoF, I'm DONE!!!!! No more second chances. NO MORE! I'm DONE!! I'm even writing my OWN book, based off of Warriors, and I've got a lot of good reviews, mostly from family, but still. I promised myself to never let MONEY and RICHES control or squash my creativity.
AYO SAME! After watching vids and reading docs on what was wrong with warriors I revamped my warrior OCs into their own universe Now dubbed The Six Colonies!
not a bad idea! but i think a novella would be better. a super edition including LOTS of pages, and the issue on Frecklewish could be solved in less than 200 pages. “Frecklewish’s Placement” sounds nice as a title. what do you think? :)
The sad bit is if it were ever a super edition, the best idea would have Vicky write it, but because she’s gone it’s too obvious that the story team will turn a blind eye to their fans and have Frecklewish’s personality nowhere close to how she acted in Mapleshade’s Vengeance, unless the chosen writer is aware of it. Though I do prefer a novella over a super-edition, if this ever does happen I hope anything I stated will never become true.
Unpopular opinion: Frecklewish didn't deserve the dark forest, but she wasn't a good cat either. She attacked a mother in front of her kits (I'd say she would have had the right to do it if the kits weren't there), then proceeded to call said kits "half-clan creatures", both of which would have definitely truamatized them if they hadn't drowned the same day. Just like Mapleshade, Frecklewish's grief doesn't justify her actions. It can only make her reasons somewhat understandable. Then she just watched the kits drown. "But Frecklewish can't swim!" No one's telling her to swim. She could have warned Mapleshade. And then when Mapleshade confronts her, she said she wished that Mapleshade had died, which I guess is understandable considering Maplsshade had killed a cat, but I highly doubt ThunderClan knew how Ravenwing actually died at the time. They probably blamed RiverClan or something. Anyway, Freckelwish was also the first to say that Mapleshade and her kits should be exiled. While I get that's not her choice, she's Oakstar's daughter, and considering how much Oakstar favors his kin, her words most likely influnenced him at least a bit. However, if Frecklewish goes to the dark forest, Appledusk and Oakstar should too, for what they did is far worse. No, cheating on Mapleshade wasn't Appledusk's only crime. He also murdered Birchface. I don't think it was an accident since he showed no signs of guilt. And literally no one denied that Frecklewish was a jerk until it was revealed she's a dark forest cat. In conclusion, Freckelwish didn't deserve the dark forest, but she was still in the wrong.
Only thing I disagree with is appledusk not feeling guilty Towards the gathering there is a scene where he stiffened at the mention of birchface’s death, he’s clearly haunted and even guilty from that But everything else I agree with
literally everybody is not a good person :/ nobody is a pure hearted person I think frecklewish shouldn’t have attacked maple shade especially infront of the children and I really think apple dusk should have gone to the dark Forrest but how could freckle warn maple? she couldn’t have known we’re she was going to do that what would she have done walk up to maple as she perpared to swim over after they just exiled her and freckle attacked her and called maples kits monsters :/
@@PurpleCatCreation cheating isn’t dark forest worthy, appledusk was not the best cat I agree but he did nothing hell worthy And I agree no one is good except the kits, perchpaw and reedshine
I keep hearing that one of Mapleshades kits warned her about it being to high for them to cross. So think that Maple may have knew already but decided not to listen-
I think Mapleshade’s Vengeance’s biggest flaw is that it’s a novella, not a super edition. I wish we could see the buildup of Mapleshade’s downfall into villainy and her and Appledusk’s relationship. I have a theory: At first, Appledusk was blinded by the excitement of a half Clan relationship and Mapleshade’s strength. But after accidentally pushing Birchface into the river, and with Reedshine’s help, he began to realize how foolish he was. At the gathering, he’s planning how he’s going to break up with Mapleshade, but drops it after Mapleshade tells him about their kits. So he decides to push the break up to after the kits are apprentices when he can see them at gatherings. But then, yeah For Frecklewish, Mapleshade was originally going to kill Oakstar, but after that plan goes awry, she decides to kill Frecklewish to cause Oakstar even more pain (just like she leaves Crookedstar alive so he was forced to live apart from everyone he loved)
Wow. After hearing about what the 'story team' said I'm not going to pay out one penny for the books or official merch. If I want to even have a look at the content there's used book stores and I'm pretty sure they don't make a profit from second hand books. If there were more people writing other interest cat series (one's without a big ol' 'story team' and co-authors though the books would likely not be published so prolifically but it would then have a chance of having less errors in continuity esp if the author had a series bible).
i think you are the only creator that makes me laugh and make me have a critical view. and thanks finally i am stop it caring about warriors the books are kinda dead
Fox cloud, one of my OCs, went to the dark forest for directly murdering two apprentices (who were underage btw which is Saltstars fault) in cold blood. By the story teams logic. Oak star should’ve gone to the dark forest, he did way more than frecklewish ever did to cause the kits deaths.
I don't think people put into account that Frecklewish could have died as well! She's not RiverClan! and trying to help kits during a STORM when she's inexperienced with swimming while also seeing RIVERCLAN CATS HELPING, yeah I think assuming RiverClan rescued them was reasonable... Heck, Mapleshade herself almost died during this scene!
I agree with the Story Team. I'd go so far as to say Oakstar and maybe Appledusk/Ravenwing also deserve the dark forest. We have literal author confirmation that she deserves the DF, and that should mean something.
However, they aren’t the ones who wrote Mapleshade’s Vengeance. Vicky Holmes was the *only* person who wrote that book. Vicky herself said that Frecklewish is in Starclan. (Ravenwing and Appledusk, too.) So, these random ass “new authors” are stepping all over *the original author’s* statement out of pettiness and the fact that they are all Mapleshade apologists. If it wasn’t for the fact of Mapleshade being an important Dark Forest leader, we probably would have gotten an article about why she is actually in Starclan.
@@Angie_Ashf3rn Honestly I completely agree with them and am frankly very happy. I hope we see Freckle in the DF in canon soon. I agree with how they perceive Maple and Freckle as characters 🤷♂️
@@pigeonax that’s actually a likely possibility! *(SPOILERS FOR RIVER!!!)* the newest book has a golden-spotted cat with amber eyes that appears as a ghost! Maybe we will get a villain Frecklewish? IM HYPED FOR THAT!!!!! I love her and want to see her go feral!!!!!
@@pigeonax SAME OMG!!!! I haven’t read it either but spoilers have gotten me 😭🤣 I recommend watching Bright Guardian Akira’s video on it, cause it’s pretty cool!
FreckleWish's situation is a gray area thing, but these people decided to make it black and white. Frecklewish's anger and her "not following rule 12 in the warrior code" isn't a black and white thing, it's more of in the gray area. I don't think she meant what she said to both MapleShade and her kits, she's was just grieving for a loss that was exploited. Another Edit: Especially when her the name of her lost bro was exploited to cover up the fact that the kits' father was the tom responsible for her bro's death. Hopefully u can understand why she would be pissed off by the news. I think some of my points were already addressed in this vid but whatever. Edit: Also MapleApple kits my beloved UWU 💕💖
Yup, but the "story team" aka the idiots doing the website (not even the writers, the Erins themselves don't know what goes on on the website, probably not even the editors themselves for all we know, remember the communication thing they mention is laughable af) are stupid.
Yes they should be there. Rowanclaw(star), Cedarheart, and Russetfur should be in cat hell but look at that they aren’t because the writing teams is stupid af
i have always believed frecklewish did see the kits struggling in the water, but lost sight of them in the rain, which explains why she believed so strongly (desperately) that the riverclan cats would help her and the kits. i don't think thats what the authors intended, but i have ALWAYS believed frecklewish just truly didn't know. if she knew the kits would die, she wouldn't have reacted the way she did to mapleshade later.
I’m gonna be completely honest- Vicky gives off so many red flags. From this to her horrifically awful original response to the Ukrainian crisis by fucking comparing a real life war to a Warrior cats book…. She really doesn’t seem like a good person. At best a very naive woman.
One more thing I find interesting is that with Warrior Cats it’s begun to be impossible to tell what’s actually cannon with characters. It’s like fnaf- everything is constantly retconned, contradicted or horribly misunderstood because there are just SO many authors and editors and none of them seem to care about consistency. The fandom has made a better cannon than the team themselves. Everything in this series should be taken with a grain of salt cuz anything could be changed at any moment.
Though she is not a perfect cat ive seen people explain that she did kind of push her truama onto the kits, only loving them while her phantsy about them being her brothers then once they arent she imeditaly hates them for something they cant control witch bothers me as well but that there does not mean she should be in DF no no she is a flawed being and thats ok
Your mention of Wings of Fire aged quite unfortunately now that Axolotl was introduced in book 15 like they were a shitty self-insert OC made by a 13 year old fan on Twitter
So by starclans logic firestar should be in the darkforest for breaking the code so many times that he probably forgot what was in it
FIREPAW! HOW DARE YOU GIVE FOOD TO A DYING OLD CAT WHO SERVES IN THE MOST ESSENTIAL ROLE IN A CLAN??!?
@@1ndiebird lol yeah
The riverclan stuff, the illegal kits and relationship that Graystripe had and he defended, feeding and protecting others who were in danger that is still against the code for some reason, like seriously? I get he’s the protagonist of the first series but like… CMON?????
@@1ndiebird yea! Let her starve!
Ok the Warriors fans dont have any sign of own brain
Frecklewish: *Didn't jump in a river that would probably have killed her and the kits prob would have drowned anyway*
Story Team: Go straight to cat hell
Rainflower: *Abused and neglected her kit because he hurt himself*
Story Team: Yeah of course, go to cat heaven
EXACTLY! She emotionally abused *her own child due to his appearance*
Freckle would probably of died because she can’t swim/saw her own family drown (trauma)
It’s sad honestly, she isn’t a saint, but she’s not a monster like everyone else in the DF, she’s stuck down there *in hell* because something that’s not her fault
@@Lylaris_or_Garuk that's still her fault a bit.
@@UndersCatts27 how is it her fauIt that she decided she better not intervene Iest further coIIateraI damage is caused?
@@IronycheinPain She could have helped Mapleshade, call for help, she just watch them die. She was violent with Mapleshade when she was pregnant literally when she got exiled, she loved Mapleshade kitten just because their father was her brother, for real she can't be excused, she don't deserve cat hell but she don't deserve forgiving either
@@UndersCatts27 uhhh no?
She was never hostiIe to MapIeshde during pregnancy; she was cIingy
The onIy reason she was hostiIe in the exiIe was thanks to her beIieving MapIeshade that Birchface was the father, Ietting that fester her in the heat of the moment
And she couIdn't save MapIeshade if she wanted to because of the fIash fIood AND because she aIready saw a RivercIan patroI, aka the cats who actuaIIy *can* heIp, and even then it's onIy so much before they wouId have faIIen victim to the storm as weII. AIong with caIIing for heIp, have you heard how Ioud fIash fIoods and rains are? They're horribIy deafening so it's no surprise that FreckIe caIIing wouId not heIp
And even if you count her death with her words to MapIeshade, remember that MapIe IiteraIIy taunted her to wish her dead because as far as she was aware, it was onIy MapIeshade in the water (the kits couId IiteraIIy not be seen since they were aIready taken by the river)
IiteraIIy her onIy vaIid crime here was that she was angry at MapIeshade and her kits, and even then, it couId weII be expIained with the fact this was mentaI whipIash knowing she beIieved these were Birchface's kits and not his supposed murderer's
i totally agree, it sucks that mapleshade's vengance, a really well-written book about her walk into madness, was twisted into something pushing frecklewish into the darkforest. because if we do that, it's taking what mapleshade thought of in her head as true. that's totally taking a pee on the writing of one of the best books. she was insane. she needed people to blame. frecklewish is no saint, but she doesn't deserve hell.
Agreed
I agree they waited almost 7 years after the release of the book to do it and literally laughing at our face that’s disgusting
I agree......☺️
I think almost everyone must be in the dark forest ,literally i think Frecklewish,Bluestar and Mapleshade s' kits will be going to Star clan
I have a theory/headcanon. Frecklewish went to StarClan but she crossed the dark forest border to try and make amends with Mapleshade. But Mapleshade’s insane and doesn’t let her go home and holds Frecklewish hostage in the dark forest
If I remember correctly Victoria Holmes said that all of the cats in Thunderclan in Mapleshade's vengeance are all in StarClan (well everyone except Mapleshade) so the "story team" changed it out of pure vibes
Yes, that's true.
They did that just purely out of spite that is outrageous
The fact that Oakstar literally did worse
@@ravem410 yeah he is marjorly responsible for the kittens death
I didn't even know that, but now that I do, I say that the story team is taking their arrogance _way too far._
The twoleg bridge was already built during Maple shades vengeance. When she goes on her killing spree/comes back she mentions it's been there already.
I’m pretty sure she uses it in the book
@@dragonstouch1042 Yep! She uses it to go kill cats. So it's weird that she didn't use it to cross across the river with her kits. It's been there for awhile.
@Moon That's just bad writing tbh.
@Moon Sure, but the way they did it, it's just a plothole that makes no sense. If they wanted to do that, they could have said that the bridge had been destroyed during the flash flood or something and the cats couldn't cross it, or come up with some other explanation. But since they didn't, it's just laziness.
Than she could have crossed it but I know that it wouldn’t make sense for the plot
19:37 Going by the story team's logic, Russetfur and her patrol should've been sent to the Dark Forest because they watched Berrykit struggle and lose his tail to a fox trap. Remember, the warrior code says that kits should be SAVED, regardless of clan heritage, so they can't use the "he was going to live anyway excuse." And even if they want to go on the logic by stating "he wasn't a clan cat", he was staying by Thunderclan at this point, and Thrunderclan was patrolling to FIND him.
This just proves that the Warrior Cats team (in general) just sucks at continuity and proves that they are only just milking the series to death. Fandom is pretty cool tho..
Edit: Also wanted to add that if Thunderclan`s patrol didn't find him in time and Shadowclan was just watching Berrykit struggle, he could've died from blood loss or infection... Care to explain story team??
I said the same during the premiere. It’s telling how cherry picky they’re being. In reality there would be a significant increase of cats in the DF if every little rule broken meant instant damnation no matter what. I don’t even think Firestar would’ve made it with their logic.
That scene also makes it so obvious that they hadn't thought of Russetfur's backstory of being a rogue...
@@legrandliseurtri7495 Omg finally someone who remembers that! And yeah, the writers need to start remembering stuff like this! Also Mistystar is the result of a half clan relationship and yet gets mad and exiles two of her warriors for breaking the code? The writers need to go back and read the damn books their writing!
That scene made me sick physically. The thought of watching a baby bleed out and cry out in pain horrified me.
They don't care.
They want MONEY
return of the queen!
also a side note: “frecklewish immideately snarls she wishes mapleshade was dead” no she didn't? mapleshade literally had to taunt frecklewish for her to say that. mapleshade said something on the lines of “or do you like watching innocent kits die?” before frecklewish leaps at her and says that she wishes mapleshade was dead. just another case of lies on the story team's end
That's not what happens.
@@witherworld8969 can you please give me a passage from the book as i do not have it at the moment.
@@sosotired nope that is exactly what happened, it took Mapleshade taunting her for Frecklewish to attack her
the exact passage here - mapleshade does indeed taunt her.
Mapleshade sniffed. “I don’t believe you! You’re a fox-hearted coward. I bet you’re glad they are dead!”
Frecklewish bounded toward Mapleshade, her eyes flashing with anger. “I wish you were dead!” she spat. “You betrayed my brother’s name!”
Mapleshade dodged sideways just as Frecklewish lunged at her. With a yelp, the she-cat stumbled into the pile of stones. Before she could find her footing, there was a hiss and a sleek dark green head darted forward, tongue flicking.
“Adder!” gasped Frecklewish. There was a blur of movement, then Frecklewish staggered backward, screeching. “It bit me! Help!”
“Like you helped my kits?” Mapleshade growled. “Never! I hope you die in agony!”
Frecklewish yowled again, a wordless shriek of pain.
@@possumqe9751 thank you! i forgot how brutal that scene is
As someone who saw what the flash floods did in southern British Columbia in November getting mad at Frecklewish for not jumping into a flash flood is like getting mad at her for not running into a forest fire
Exactly I understand that some people want to be heroes but a flash flood is extremely dangerous and I saw how it looks like on tv and blaming and shaming frecklewish for not helping is straight up bs
And emergency personal constantly say to not get involved unless they have to and Frecklewish saw Riverclan help.
you're absolutely right. flash floods have occurred near where I live, and I can say with absolute certainty that flash floods are no joke. so frecklewish wasn't on the wrong
Another thing to remember is that Frecklewish's brother - Birchface - died *when he fell in the river.* Like, I don't blame Freckle (who can't swim, who saw RiverClan coming and likely only barely saw the kits *before* they got swept in) for not going in the water. If my sibling had drowned in that same river, I wouldn't want to go in.
I'm gonna use "your throne is made of dynamite" from now on.
As a guy who lives on a prairie and had traveled to a river before (multiple times), the difference between a flood and a flash flood is this:
Flood: Usually gradual, though sometimes faster. Mainly like filling a bowl to the top and pouring over. River can run normally.
Flash flood: Sudden flooding. Usually, this is caused by too much rain or water being poured into an area (like a river or grassland). Water becomes violent in its current, and the wind may only worsen it. Flash floods lower to standard flooding before returning to normal.
TL;DR: Flash flooding is more violent and dangerous than flooding. Like a brass knuckle punch compared to a slap.
Like moonkitti stated in her video, water safety trips teach us to not just go into the water to save somebody, to stay safe, so you don't risk two lives. And that's what frecklewish did. and somehow she goes to cat hell for choosing the right choice. Warriors story team really has lost it this time. (Edit: I got bored of warrior cats anyway to move to wings of fire, way much better. I recommend it.)
I completely agree.
Ay yo, I moved on to wings of fire too, way better
What you said about the original books being about challenging the authority of the warrior code\starclan finally shined a light on exactly why I dislike the recent books.
The way that cats just blindly follow the warrior code\starclan in the later books, especially in the more recent ones is downright scary.
Mistystar was willing to let go of a SEASONED medicine cat for committing the sin of... being born, and let go two amazing warriors for not following her orders when she was wrong and proved to be wrong, which Mothwing obviously had an issue with and refused to go back to Riverclan for very valid reasons, but the entire time everyone's telling her that she's being petty... despite the fact that her leader abandoned and ostracized her... for being born.
Firestar in the original books knew when a cat's wellbeing trumped the warrior code, or starclan, and I feel like this is a moment where challenging authrority makes sense, you cant convinceme that not a single cat had issues with Mistystar's decision.
Not to mention that (spoiler alert) after Bristlefrost gave up her EXISTENCE for the sake of the clans futures, cats were still arguing that Bristlefrost wasn't a worthy warrior because she broke the code by falling in love with someone from a different clan. I was so shocked when I read that. I get that they're setting up that the cats are thinking about reworking the warrior code (so they need to write opposing arguments), but there's no way you can convince me that every single cat there was more focused on Bristlefrost's traitorous acts then the fact that she saved the clans.
You know it will be fun when Quiet Rage makes a video on it
Warriors has yeed their last haw in copying EA
Yes
Admittedly, seeing the clans dissolve and renounce their faith to Starclan after all of that bull crap would make for an interesting story ngl
Seeing as StarClan's dumbassery nearly caused the end of themselves and the entire forest this past arc, I really hope the coming one doesn't end with them believing in StarClan again.
Honestly since I saw that they give 3 months to clans to create a new code I blew up out of rage I completely lost faith in starclan and never trust them again
I have a storyline that involves some vengeful descendants of BloodClan cats just end up deleting Firestar's bloodline by assassination over time. ThunderClan takes a heavy blow, but I did spare some cats from the "assassinated" fate: Jayfeather dies of old age shortly before the BloodClan Avengers start their murdering, and Nightheart manages to figure out that his ancestry would get him killed and bails: pretty much "screw the Clan, screw my family, I'm saving myself". I'd like to think he eventually starts to believe StarClan is bullshit and becomes a barn cat or kittypet, and when he dies he goes happily to their afterlife (if kittypet, maybe even meeting Jake and seeing where his family first began).
Oo I made a Warrior Cats Au/story (it's name is Warrior Cats The Generations Far Far Away that takes place 5 billion years after Warrior Cats on another planet) where StarClan has a leader who dissolved into tyranny…
He sent anyone he didn't like to the new Dark Forest and the ones he likes all go to StarClan eventually everyone who was noticing how StarClan helped some cats (some of which are evil) and punished others snapped and went to the new Dark Forest to finally start a rebellion against StarClan
Why are they talking about StarClan as if they're a real group of people(?) and not a plot device for the series. Also why isn't Rainflower in kitty cat hell??
They're acting like they can't just fucking write it differently lmao
Omg the story team frustrating me rn. Frecklewish was not innocent but they blatantly lied about what she did. She didnt fucking see larchkit she didnt see ANY of the kits. So many cats should be in the DF if this is the logic. But freckle just shouldn't be there anyway. Is an interesting concept but not with the way they're treating it. Another thing, if we can't even trust the story team to keep eye colour or collar colour consistent, why should we trust their word on the debate of a character created not by them who serves as death fodder for Mapleshade?? Especially when their take has blatant lies and say things that don't happen in the book.
Me I literally burst out of rage and I know that when I am going to read the 7th cycle in French I will be beyond rage ugh story team is just blantanly doing everything to make us mad
The funniest part about everything recently is that the sTory tEam blames their mistakes on the cats in the books that THEY wrote e.g. ashfur going to starclan and every other starclan mistake they say "oH well lOoks LiKe sTAaaaaAarclan did an oOpsies!"
I can actually see how this would work, I like to write stories, and once you’ve given a character or group of characters a personalily you have to stick with it, whether you actually want to write it that way or not. But the reason that doesnt work is they’ve changed a character’s personality before, or just taken it before. And they make cats do lots of things their character’s would not have done.
Ashfur: *tries to kill 4 cats because he couldn't take rejection*
StarClan: Sure. Come on in.
Rainflower: *abuses and neglects her own son for an injury*
StarClan: Welcome to Cat Heaven!
Frecklewish: *doesn't cause herself to drown to save Mapleshade's half-clan children*
StarClan: Nope. You're going to Cat Hell.
Seriously? By that logic, Russetfur should have gone to the Dark Forest for not helping Berrykit.
By similar logic, Yellowfang would not have been in Starclan either.
Kate even said that Tom, the same cat who lied to his mate (never told her the humans would take away her kits) to keep her with him, phisically abused his housemate 'cause she told the truth, kidnapped the kits and caused his mate's death (as Turtle Tail was running to search the stolen kits when she got on the road) by doing that and, always by Kate's words, could have possibly abused the kits to have power over Turtle Tail and considered them simple property ("That's why One Eye hurting one of them was unacceptable", quoting her blog)... went to a "kittypet heaven" and other kittypets would tell him how to be gentler.
I'd LOVE to to see the "story teams" excuse for throwing rainflower in starclan--
Honestly, corrupt StarClan seems like a really cool concept, twisting and manipulating the clans into worshipping them, only to go back on their word and condemn innocent cats to an existence of hunger, fear, and eventual death 2.0, while horrible cats live happily in the light to keep the cycle going. I have this idea that they send cats who question this process or StarClan's morality straight to the Dark Forest by default so they can continue with their twisted scheme. Erins, if you ever need an extra writer, hit me up!
I thought of that before. I'm a bit of an AU addict (I mean, my main comment on this video is me describing my AU based on the whole Frecklewish thing where Patchkit lives unbeknownst to Mapleshade), but it's such a common one I couldn't help but put my own spin on it.
A bunch of older StarClan cats (think Gray Wing, the OG leaders, maybe even Star Flower if she wasn't already going to the Dark Forest for some of her sins) basically abandon StarClan and go to the Dark Forest of their own wills, sticking together so none get lost. I should note that the whole "Dark Forest literally influences you to be a bad person" thing doesn't happen in this version of the AU. Over time, Dark Forest cats basically start joining the parade because there's so many there who were only there because they questioned the kitty god overlords, to the point where cats who were sent there for legitimate crimes also joined because they thought it was absolutely backwards even with the morality of a serial killer. Now, considering StarClan has a bit of a twisted sense of humor and likes sentencing the living cats to harsh conditions, a lot of cats leave the Clans, whether they were kicked out for advocating religious freedom or not: some even did crime to make sure no one would want them back in the Clans. The rebel spirits' plan? Basically rewrite the allegiances of the living. Because there were high-ranking StarClan cats (probably a lot considering the relatively-large cast of Dawn of the Clans), they were going to strip the high ranks of the living clans from their positions and put the ones who question StarClan in power. And if the corrupt StarClan cats did anything about, they'd do it again: and due to the whole "high-ranking StarClan cat" thing (based on age and influence, so the real early birds are high ranks by default), they can't be sent to cat hell by the others. It's an endless cycle until all the bad StarClan cats fade, and then anyone who helped them out gets to go back to the stars with them: it's only fair, after all, with their change of heart to make sure no one else suffered anymore.
My version went through a lot of iterations, it even started with the Dark Forest taking the bodies of rogues Ashfur-style (except the fact they asked nicely first, because why wouldn't they if they don't want to be seen as bad?) and using them to convince the living Clan cats to up and leave: and if they had absolutely no other choice, they'd steal the kits. Gotta teach them young, as they all say, and it's a lot easier to deprogram cult mindsets from the kits. The latter wouldn't be their favorite, but they'd do it if needed. Albeit that's basically scrapped now, I still want to use it somehow.
I have an headcannon/story idea that there's an imposter imposter running StarClan.
Recently, I finally read Mapleshade’s Vengeance and I can definitely say, no she absolutely does not deserve to be there, if you say she should be there, what about Russetfur and the cats who saw Berrykit lose his tail? What about Rainflower who abused and neglected her son? It’s all just a mess and extremely aggravating in my eyes
Gets a like from me just for the title. Story Team deserves all the backlash and then some.
I like your Wild Kratts pfp
@@oddie97 Thanks!
Exactly
Oak star is in Starclan because he was a leader who benefitted Starclan meanwhile Freklewish was the perfect scapegoat.
In other words it’s all because of the fact the cats have a government in both life and the afterlife.
26:51 There's a bit of a problem with that idea:
Pinestar left ThunderClan to become a kittypet and he still went to StarClan.
Yea,, it's victim blaming. Mapleshade took advantage of Frecklewish. In fact, Mapleshade manipulated all her victims. And she mistreated her kits.
The only cats at fault are Mapleshade and Oakstar. I'm aware this is a few months old news, but words cannot describe how angry it makes me. (I can kinda relate to Frecklewish, because I've dealt with many toxic people in the past. Which is why I'm so upset about this)
@MlechnyyKub I agree. I actually completely changed my mind about Frecklewish. Oakstar still shouldn't have exiled kits, but I don't think it's necessarily his fault.
@MlechnyyKub I’d like to point out there is a bridge to Riverclan. Mapleshade uses it
How did she mistreat her kits?
I understand that as times change, views on characters will as well, even on the author's part. For example, Bramblestar's treatment of Squirrelflight was seen as normal for a while, but people soon saw it as abusive. There have also been new views on characters such as Mapleshade, Thistleclaw, and Blackstar, for better or for worse. It's okay to have new opinions. It brings new ideas to the table and can be genuinely useful.
Regardless, that does not justify that Frecklewish deserves to be in the dark forest. It is hypocrisy to put her into the dark forest at this point. If she's in the dark forest, then a bunch of other cats should be too: Russetfur, Bluestar, Blackstar (before redemption), pretty much every cat who saw Snowkit die... the list goes on. A majority of these characters are from the first four series. During that period of time, a cat breaking the code *once* wouldn't have necessarily landed them in the dark forest; only multiple code violations did. This is why Thistleclaw and Brokenstar are in the dark forest and Russetfur isn't; they hurt kits multiple times while the latter only did so once. If StarClan believed in second chances around the time of Mapleshade's Vengeance, why change the rules now? It makes no sense to me and it's very reckless of the writing team to try and change something that has been set in stone for nearly a couple of decades now.
I hope that, if they are going down this route, that they at least do something creative with this. Having her go through a redemption arc would be very interesting, since the recent books have demonstrated themes of it. However, if Frecklewish is nigh used again, then the decision to place her in hell was completely pointless. If that's the case, readers can continue to assume that Frecklewish is in StarClan. Changing something this small for no reason would be a pitiful and even spiteful decision on the half of the writing team, and I will be disappointed if her placement in the dark forest is reduced to nothing but a side note.
Honestly I miss the real brambleclaw I hate what his character had become
Also if Frecklwish and Mapleshade went to the dark forest wouldn't mapleshade try and kill her again?
@@Sun-zg9nf exactly
@@sophietremblay3795 me too
Don't get your hopes up, the authors are known for crushing them.
"He just loved too much"
*Meanwhile Ashfur attempting murder and commiting numerous crimes*
😂
Russetfur nonchalantly, possibly even happily, watched Berrykit struggling in pain as his tail was caught In the fox trap. Refusing to help him only because he wasn’t clan born!
Russetfur isn’t clanborn either!
And yet she’s In StarClan even though she broke the same code as Frecklewish, but she did it deliberately!
Story Team: sends frecklewish to the DF
Quiet Rage (and the whole fandom): *so you have chosen death/cancellation?*
I think us fans need to start boycotting the new book. I don’t want Warriors to end, but it either needs to be put out of its misery or get a serious reboot.
Yeah hope that the next cycle will be much better
so uh we gonna ignore rainflower, raggedstar, oakstar, ashfur, and many more who deserve this placement more
Petition to have Frecklewish play a part in denouncing StarClan’s hypocritical faith in a future arc
We need a universe Bible STAT. And honestly I wouldn’t mind a revamping of the series, it’s in dire need of changes we’ve asked for, for years.
I'd love a reboot. Although only movies and comics have ever gotten reboots, but have books? That's a lot of content to reboot though.
And the thing is, how could she have known the kits were drowning in the water? They were taken by the current immediately and were out of sight in an instant, and it was heavily raining, how could she have known? And even if she had seen the kits in the water, what was she supposed to do? If she tried to save them herself, she could've easily drowned along with the kits, accomplishing nothing. If she had left to get help, it would've been too late anyway, and she SAW the Riverclan cats across the way, so of course she'd assume they'd help so there'd be no need to get help if it was already there?
if frecklewish is in the dark forest, Ashfur, Bluestar, Pinestar, onestar, graystripe, Appledusk and Ravenwing need to be there too.
Also why does Russetfur get a free pass? She literally watched a kit (berrynose) in pain when she could’ve done something but no, all she did was watch him.
The river washed Mapleshade and her kits away, Frecklewish wouldn’t have been able to see them
It would been better if was oakstar in the dark forest instead of frecklewish because he one broke one of warrior code because he lash out all his anger and rage on this poor innocent kits because he won’t go the hatred he had on appledusk for killed his son, birchface.
and frecklewish was grieving because in the book in of Mapleshade Vengeance she told mapleshade that she couldn’t get over the death of her brother and she was very excited to think this kits were her brothers but when she found out that mapleshade her clanmate/friend lied make her believe that her brother was the father when turn out it’s cat who accidentally or killed her brother so course she would be out rages but with grief and sadness.
Plus it have taught Oakstar a very hard lesson to not let his rage,angry and his pride cloud his mind which then ending up getting three kits drowned and die
While Frecklewish has very hurtful when she found that mapleshade kits dead but the one thing would Oakstar feel bad for what he did?
Making a full comment on this.
I will always believe that Mapleshade was the only one at true fault.
-She chose to become mates with a cat from another Clan, a Clan that ThunderClan was having issues with at the time.
-She chose to lie & use a grieving sister to her advantage instead of telling her she's not telling who the father is. Which is in fact a RIGHT Queens have, they don't have to tell ANYONE WHO THE FATHER OF THEIR KITS ARE. Mapleshade could have used that to her advantage right from the start!
-She chose to cross a river full of flash flood water during a deafening rainstorm when there was in fact a bridge over yonder SHE KNEW ABOUT AS WE SEE LATER ON IN THE BOOK!
While every other cat did do bad or something questionable, at the end of the day Mapleshade was the one who had chosen to do the things she did.
-Oakstar may have banished her, but it was Mapleshade's action to bring her kits to the river.
-Ravenwing might have misread the omen, but it was Mapleshade who made it come true in the end.
-Frecklewish may have chewed her out & said terrible things, but it was Mapleshade's action to lie & manipulate her into believing a part of her brother, someone we can all see she quite clearly cared for deeply, was alive.
If Mapleshade had crossed the bridge or even waited, her kits would likely have lived past that day, Ravenwing's omen wouldn't have came true, Appledusk likely wouldn't have been so angry with her & might have picked her over Reedshine. Everything falls at Mapleshade's paws. It was Mapleshade's actions that bit her in the ass.
While I'm here & bored I'ma write down an Appledusk defense as well since I've been seeing people out right lie about him in this fandom.
Yes, Appledusk cheated. Cheating is bad kids.
But that's the worst he does in the whole story, you don't need to LIE about things to make him look worse than he already did by default, Warrior Cat fandom!
I've seen people claim "Appledusk disrespected his kits".
Like, where? I've read this story like over three times & NOWHERE in the WHOLE BOOK hints to that AT ALL. We in fact see & get the opposite.
-Appledusk is kind & proud of the kits when he first meets them. He shows no dislike, disrespect, or hate towards them. He likes them.
-When we get to the scene at the river he jumps into the water as soon as Mapleshade tells him, he doesn't wait around as Mapleshade says later on.
-When the kits bodies are brought back to camp, he's gentle with the kit he's carrying. He doesn't PLOP the kit on the floor, or scoff once the body has been place, he's quiet here.
-Appledusk chews out Mapleshade HARSHLY, harshly like a grieving father likely would in the same situation.
I don't see how he disrespected the kits at all?
If ANYONE in RiverClan disrespected the kits it was Darkstar for not letting their mother mourn them properly, not Appledusk.
I am also going to add to the chewing out scene with Appledusk & Mapleshade, as I said in the live chat Appledusk is a cat who knows how to swim & likely knows how water works in terms of like a lifeguard, much like the rest of RiverClan. If your cat wife from another Clan gets the bright idea that crossing RAPID FLASH FLOOD WATERS is somehow a good idea, but also GOES THROUGH WITH IT, which in turn gets THREE CHILDREN KILLED, when you know better & likely expect others to know better, you would be pissed & angry as well because in your eyes your cat wife just willing killed your children without a second thought.
I don't blame Appledusk for being angry here, I WOULD BE ANGRY HERE TOO.
Then we have the Birchface event.
Appledusk is our only close POV of this part of the battle. The only other being the victim himself, Birchface.
There's nothing on either side whether or not Appledusk killed him & it'll likely be one of those mysteries that will never be answered.
Unless the ""story team"" wants to give us a canon answer, which even then I will not trust given recent events - murder or accident.
We can't trust RiverClan because they want to look strong in front of ThunderClan, & we've seen the Clans lie in order to do that.
We can't trust ThunderClan because they just lost a well loved & liked warrior among their ranks, making them likely too blind to see anything else but red here.
Whole thing gets even more mudded when we have Appledusk say it was an accident. Which he could be lying, but he could also be telling the truth. The best we can do is see what we have of his character & come to a conclusion from there. Which I think is the best action to take here given how vague it is.
I should also add, Appledusk did care about the two cats who he chose as mates.
Even when Mapleshade appears before him to kill him, he doesn't attack her, he just tells her to leave & nothing else. He only gets in the way when Mapleshade goes to attack & kill Reedshine, which in turn gets him killed instead.
I personally believe that by protecting Reedshine from "Death by Mapleshade", he chose a forever mate in the end, which was Reedshine. He finally chose to be faithful to someone. And to be honest that's all I wish for cheaters to learn, have them become faithful to someone who they truly care about & I think he finally reached that end of his story. Kinda strange to see a hidden character arc like that so overlooked by fans, at least I read/saw it as some hidden arc.
Sorry for the long ass post, really just wanted to get my thoughts out lol.
Underrated comment. It's a very well formulated post
The effort put in this comment is truly impressive
@Moon No he called the relashionship between HIM and MAPLESHADE. He was sad but quiet about the kits but readably angry that she got them killed. And I can't justify Frecklewish but y'all excuse Mapleshade because of grief, well Freckle was doing that out of grief too and while its bad, it's not as bad as murder so..... Also Freckle did care and was upset at the news of kits' deaths
@Moon
What Frecklewish said was bad, never said it wasn't. However she likely wouldn't have called them that if Mapleshade hadn't lied to her & use her & Birchface's name as some shield for them.
Using someone else as a shield, especially when that person is dead & you're taking advantage of their mourning sibling is going to get a NASTY reaction when they come to terms that you had LIED TO THEM.
Worst part is that we don't even know if she actually truly meant or if it was a just a heat of the moment thing which with the line "I didn't mean for them to die" kinda hints to that Frecklewish never wished harmed onto those kits.
& looking at the scene right now:
"You knew about these kits?" Darkstar asked. The tip of her tail was twitching. Appledusk nodded, and Reedshine let out a soft wail. "Mapleshade told me she would raise them in ThunderClan," Appledusk meowed. "I... I knew I had made a mistake so I said nothing to my clanmates."
This doesn't read like he's calling his kits a mistake, more like being with Mapleshade a mistake & that he came to that when he was given the news of their kits. Not the kits specifically themselves.
He also goes on & says: "I should have never betrayed my Clan by meeting with Mapleshade," Appledusk went on. "I will regret it for the rest of my life."
He's not talking about the kits here, he's talking about Mapleshade.
He doesn't say "having the kits was a mistake" or that "the kits were a mistake" or anything else on the lines of it hinting towards any dislike towards the kits, it's all thrown at Mapleshade.
If he really did think of them as mistakes in some way, we would & should have seen signs when he first met them or when he got news that Mapleshade was having them, but we didn't, at all, not even in the slightest.
@Moon Oh he was definitely an assfuckface but he did care about the kits and as for Frecklewish, well, you've heard all I'll say and I've heard all you'll say so let's just agree to disagree.
I'm not gonna lie I laughed at the mental image of a little baby chaotic ashpaw thinking he is being smooth trying to get with squirrelflight when in reality he is being a little cotton eyed toad.
personal headcanon (theory): frecklewish is used as a scapegoat, for the more powerful characters to pin the blame on for the whole mapleshade-situation and the deaths of the kits
and now the story team has proven this might be just a theory or headcanon…
I was there for the premiere and every point you made was amazing
Not to mention, there was literally a heavy storm and flash flood. How could she see, hear, or smell anything about the kits when, from what we know, she barely just saw mapleshade and the riverclan patrol. She probably didnt even know to help.
One thing I'm not sure if you knew, but the Erin who made Mapleshade's Vengance, outright said she believed all of Mapleshade's victims actually went to Starclan, so the Story Team went against what she said and definitely as you said lied about communicating the the Erin's
I really love Mapleshade as a villain, I like the idea of sympathizing with her, but she’s no doubt evil and unjustifiable, frecklewish didn’t really do anything wrong but get mad
Apparently female villians in Warriors are just she-cats who got angry once lmao
@@samfinnell6070 ikr haha, but I hope this doesn’t show up and this is false by the canon in the books, since we’ve never seen her in the dark forest hopefully it stays that way, then again she could have faded already
Yes! A Mapleshade lover who doesn't ignore nuances and fact based arguments. What a good day :D But seriously, yeah. Frecklewish did nothing to deserve going to the same place as fricken Brokenstar and Tigerstar lmao
@@zrainyday5266 ah yes, because someone who forces underage children to fight in a war definitely deserves to be in the same place as a she-cat who got mad in the heat of the moment XD
@@supersketchy3824 Absolutely. What sound logic XD The Erins def know what they're doing and totally didn't make a stupid decision for no reason lmao
The premier haven't happen but I'm already loving this video.
I can confirm that some cats mentioned on the website are still listed with a paw suffix. I only saw Bramblestar and Mothwing, but I may have missed one. Also, Bramble is described as "moral and devoted" O-O
The story team: we agree with the opinion of the fictional afterlife we created that uses terrible reasoning
everyone: gets rightfully mad
Frecklewish should get her own unique super edition which demonstrates life in the dark forest. We can see her reflection of her past, the discussion of how unfair her placement there is, and other dark forest cats will get more fleshed out.
The book should end with a redemption system being installed where dark forest cats can be rehabilitated. The first cats brought into starclan from the dark forest will be Maggottail, Silverhawk, Sparrowfeather, and, of course, Frecklewish.
Too bad they literally had Gray Wing or some old cat come up and say Dark Forest cats can't ever be redeemed. Even if they literally died trying to help Bristlefrost save their asses.
@@graphitetailgrace3870 I keep forgetting Bristlefrost died in a stupid fucking puddle lmao
I agree
@@graphitetailgrace3870 (I know that this comment is over a year old, but I hate the characterization of dead cats in warriors) I hate that Gray Wing would be one of the spokescats in this scenario because it’s so /completely out of character/ for him. But of course it is. Everyone loses their personality and becomes a pawn of StarClan’s will once they join StarClan. His brother, Clear Sky, was arguably one of the worst cats in Dawn of the Clans (and by the inconsistent rulings of the books) would probably have gone to the Dark Forest, but Gray Wing appears to have forgiven him. Gray Wing of all characters absolutely /would not/ say that all Dark Forest cats are irredeemable. His brother was redeemed. The same opportunity could be presented for other Dark Forest cats. But of course it isn’t. You die, and then suddenly atonement and regret is locked and you can’t ever change it. Gray Wing would call this an injustice. But he doesn’t have an actual personality in the modern age so it’s okay according to the writing team.
You know something else stupid StarClan does? They literally threaten to cast Squirrel to the Dark Forest for lying to her clan about Lion, Jay and Holly when the ORDERED her to! That's just stupidity to another level. Another example you can use in future videos.
Considering one of the teammates, (Vicky Homes that is) Recently compared an even in Warriors (I.e. Fireheart going behind Bluestar’s back to warn Windclan about the dogs) to WHAT IS CURRENTLY HAPPENING WITH RUSSIA AND UKRAINE! I’ve lost faith in this series a bit. 😞
Excuse me, what-!? I hope this is not real cause that would be so insensitive
@@zrainyday5266 Oh it’s real alright…..the information can be found on Twitter and Tumblr. :(
@@eve123princess9 Can you link it? I can't seem to find it
@@zrainyday5266 Unfortunately I cannot. (I am terrible at sending links tbh) but I can guarantee you it happened. 😔
@@eve123princess9 Ah, thats fine. Tbh it's not too hard to believe. Some people are way out of touch...
They better treat my girl Squilf better or they're gonna get a strongly worded letter lmao
Frecklewish doesn’t deserve the darkforest for such a stupid reason. Y’all are saying she deserves to die/go to hell because she didn’t basically commit suicide. Y’all are being hypocritical saying she Broke the warrior code by neglecting a kit in danger but then turn around and don’t say anything about bluefur getting mosskit killed and Russetfur and the Shadowclan patrol watched berrykit struggling in a fox trap.
She is not responsible for mapleshade’s idiotic decision of forcing young,tired,hungry kits to cross and flooded river. Thunderclan was not chasing immediately chasing them to get them off the territory.
Many of you like argue and say that she followed them to the river and deliberately watched them drown. When that isn’t the case and it’s never been confirmed true in the book itself if you bother reading the mapleshade’s vengeance then you’d know that nettlepaw TOLD Mapleshade she followed them to make sure the left and that she never stayed.
It was Mapleshade herself that assumed she watched them drown. And it’s already clear that she had completely lost her marbles and needed to shift the blame on someone other than herself for the death of her kits.
But enough of that part, some people might say that if thunderclan found them then they would have killed them or they would have been killed by a fox or badger. Which that isn’t true either and I’ll explain why.
Even if Thunderclan patrol found Mapleshade and her kits after the time limit, they wouldn’t of been seriously hurt or kill Mapleshade, especially with kits. Even protecting Mapleshade during her trial, when two warriors hauled Frecklewish off from attacking her. At worst, they would of given her a few warning bits or scratches, most likely would of simply lead them out of the territory.
when Mapleshade is found trespassing after the kits’ deaths, she’s still offered by Frecklewish and Appledusk to leave peacefully before they called a patrol. Where they still likely to just chase her out, not kill her. Clan cats rarely kill cats just for trespassing, not even those outside of the code.
And even if Mapleshade did go somewhere else besides the river her kits wouldn’t be in any danger because for one…
1. Mapleshade is a Clan cat, some of the best fighters around. She’s a fully trained warrior, who was noted to be the expected future deputy in the Ultimate Guild. She managed to scare away the kittypet from Chapter 7 with a single scratch. Local Rogues and Kittypets should be more scared of her, then she is of them. Mapleshade is fully capable of defending her kits from any outsiders just for one night.
2. Badger or fox attacks are also unlikely if she stays reasonably close to the Clan territory as Clan cats chase out all other predators.
Idk what the hell the writing team is on for blaming frecklewish for the kits death when that isn’t even the case the cat directly responsible is Mapleshade herself. There was a bridge she could have cross and she knew about it as well because she cross that bridge
She also could have went to two leg place for god sake. Some of y’all like to use the excuse that she couldn’t go to the two leg place because the kittypets were hostile since oakstar ordered “raids”on them.
Oakstar only ordered one attack and it was because he’d been getting several reports from patrols beforehand they were being troublesome.
Oakstar’s one attack on the kittypets took place in Pinestar’s choice, 3 years after Mapleshade was alive, which is a long time in cat time. When Mapleshade was alive, all the outsiders she did come across were Myler and a Kittypet during Chapter 7, where they were either a non-threat or actually friendly.
Many people in this fandom believe that cats like Ravenwing,frecklewish, and Appledusk I don’t even know how the hell he’s to blame when he isn’t responsible for the kits death in anyway at all. People only believe this fact because over the 7 years since the book release there have been lies spreading about each of these cats mainly freckle and apple. The only reason people believe it is because Mapleshade shifting the blame. And I can provide hard evidence.
Mapleshade is always shifting the blame on everyone else and doesn’t want to take responsibility for her actions. She even goes as far as to blame someone else for the death of her kits for a stupid Decision she made.
When they are cast out it says that *Mapleshade thinks of Ravenwing as the murderer of her kits during her exile.* This is hard evidence of her shifting the blame and not taking responsibility for her own actions.
Another example or her shifting the blame. *Mapleshade calls is this what he is looking for, and Appledusk stares at her in horror, reminding her she was supposed to leave the territory. Mapleshade tells him he is more mouse-brained than she thought, and accuses him of killing their kits.
Appledusk, however, blames her for killing their kits, because she made them cross the river. Which is in fact true she forced her terrified kittens to cross raging flooded river because she was too impatient and don’t want to even prioritize her children’s safety first.
People get furious at Appledusk for blaming the kits' death on Mapleshade. However, Mapleshade is guilty of doing the exact same thing, convinced Appledusk could of somehow saved all the kits:
"He never wanted my kits, so he let them drown. He could have saved them, I know he could have!" - Chapter 8.
She is absolutely delusional for thinking he could save three kittens from a flash flooded river. Just because they’re Riverclan cats doesn’t mean their immune to drowning and are perfect “ capable” of swimming in terrible waters.
Appledusk,frecklewish,Ravenwing. None of these cats played a Direct part in her kits death. And as much as I hate him not even Oakstar is responsible. He may have exiled those kits but it was Mapleshade and herself alone who made the dumb decision of forcing her kits to swim across a flooded river when she literally had more then one option. All she cared about was what she wanted. She didn’t care about her kits at that moment and I’ll tell you why. She killed her kits and here proof of that. When they’re at the river she reveals and tells the kits who their father is and it is said that it was raining so hard Mapleshade had to close her eyes. In different words, it's storming too hard to cross the river normally. Petalkit is the first one she sends in. It's stated he went under almost instantly, and had to struggle to stay above water. She saw one of her kits struggle and yet she sent in her other two kits as well and follows soon after. They don't even get to cross to the second steppingstone before a giant wave sweeps all four of them into the water.
Maple could have realised crossing the river with tired and hungry kits during a storm wasn't a good idea. If she desperatly wanted to go to RiverClan, she could have taken the bridge which was somewhere nearby.
She could also have crossed to Shadow or WindClan, which also both would have been less risky. Both Shadow and WindClan are on good terms with ThunderClan in this book, while Riverclan isn't. Sure, her mate was in Riverclan, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea to cross over to enemy territory to seek shelter. She had several options, but due to her mind being fixed on Riverclan, she didn't see or want to see them.
And when it was obvious it was too dangerous for at least her kits, she also pushed those signs away, only thinking about herself and wanting to be with her mate. This is what lead to her demise and the bad luck that slapped her in the face once she set foot in the raging river. That’s all thank you for reading my comment ;)
AGREED WITH EVERYTHING
You just said
@@mightyleafster Aw thank you! I put a lot of effort into making this comment and gathering information because it’s so painfully annoying about how majority of this fandom blames these 4 cats for the death of the kits. When they had nothing to do with the direct deaths of these children.
Ravenwing is is somewhat innocent. As the little guy was only doing his job and he gave Maple multiple chances to confess even though in the omen it showed that someone would get hurt however he didn’t know that the kits be exiled. Some people say that it’s the medicine cats job to give advice to the leader however in the warrior code it also states that the leaders word is law so he can’t speak up against him and I think alot of people have forgotten that rule.
Oakstar the rage and heartbrokenness he felt are understandable but his decision of exiling the kits is a big no no although he isn’t responsible for their deaths either as again it was maple who forced them to swim.
Frecklewish she is innocent as well she was pissed that maple lied to her. It really can’t be called lying though because frecklewish shouldn’t have assumed. But it somewhat makes sense why she assumed it because maple her best friend stayed unusually and suspiciously silent when she asked her about it. Maple even had four months to correct her and queens right to not reveal who fathered her kits. So pretty much she caused her own exile by believing that thunderclan would be ok with her having a forbidden mate let alone with the same cat who accidentally killed their clan mate.
Appledusk is entirely innocent here out of these 4 since he didn’t even do anything wrong and somehow people blame him for the kits death and say he didn’t care about them. But him asking if Mapleshade meant to cross the river and blaming her shows how much he cares about his deceased children.
So yeah basically half this fandom is filled with deranged lunatics who think cheating is a reason to die and that the other 3 deserve to die as well but they never give answers as to why ☕️🗿
@@0.721x agreed with every point you made
Appledusk had literally nothing to do with the kits death
The only reason I would have accepted Frecklewish wsa in The Dark Forest was if Frecklewish herself felt like she belonged there herself... not having other cats judging her, but her judging herself... but I also don't like that some cat's who go through redemption arcs or who learn to forgive themselves and heal from that cannot go to StarClan once they've been Dark Forest cats. I really miss how StarClan was in the beginning of the First Arc... I never liked the concept that there was a hell like place in the books instead of reincarnation to give the cat another chance to change and that they'd only ever reach StarClan once they'd proved themselves in one of their different lives that they finally got to rest there. Never liked the end of existence either... like that's fundamentally frightening esp for those that believe in an afterlife at all.
she goes to the dark forest to torment mapleshade for eternity.
I know nearly all my comments on this channel have been related to my extreme hatred for the Dark Forest trainees, but with Frecklewish it's like they wanted to twist the knife further by showing me how a bystander, who physically couldn't do anything to save some kittens, is a villain. While known traitors to the Clans-who had to be _convinced by Ivypool_ to do the right thing-are StarClan material. Being unable to save kits is bad, but deceiving your leaders, selfishly trying to become better than everyone else, hiding like cowards when the consequences come, and being indirectly responsible for _multiple_ cat deaths is forgivable? What are the rules, Erins? WHAT ARE THE RULES?!?
FACTS
I agree the fact that they completely shattered the rules they established in the beginning of the series is just enraging me
@@sophietremblay3795 They literally committed the worst and most deadly codebreak of the entire series, I hate how it was glanced over in just two books. I hope to God it finally gets addressed when they start making changes to the Code.
@@graphitetailgrace3870 agree
now I imagine ashpaw threatening squirrelflight when the fire scene took place.
a tiny apprentice and a grown cat.
squilf could have just picked him up and thrown him into the fire.
Holly's murder would have been so easy.
OHNO! ashpaw getting lionpaw as a apprentice would have been pur chaos.
I've never read Mapleshade Vengeance plan too, but have heard the basic plot and like did the story team forget that mapleshade is written as an unreliable narrator its from her presepective of course to her everybody was at fault except for herself
Well the sole author was Vicky Holmes who left years before this but they didn't even bother to read MV and blatantly made up lies about Freckle. I honestly can't tell if this is just really bad PR because they are getting backlash or if they hired condescending idiots or both lol.
@@zrainyday5266 probably both but like MV is like a Novella correct, like it's not even a long book nor is it a hard read. They couldn't have taken a hot minute to look things up, apologize for the mistake and fix it.
Like clearly they are Lazy and stubborn. MV takes a few generation in the past like you don't need to have read any other books to catch up on who she even is, it's just the one. Like yea there's like 80 books but you onl6 need to read the one.
@@Rikkiroo1008 Agreed. It does take some critical thinking to see past Mapleshade's assertions however it shouldn't be hard for literal grown adults to do. So yeah, just some stubborn corporate bumble-heads who don't know how to internet or google
Mapleshade is like that one kid that reminds the teacher about homework
She’s that one women with the short blonde haircut and wants RiverClan’s manage
Mapleshade is like that one kid who sticks wet gum underneath the table
And she’s that one kid who eats glue sticks and claims it was sour spray in the mouth and ends up poisoning the classmates
Yep. Been there quiet.
But this is why I usually just read the books and NOT the bs in the fandom. And why I do fanfic when it comes to the new books.
Personally? I'm conflicted on frecklewish given how she was so radically obsessed with the kits and teaching them to seek revenge on riverclan before they're even born. So honestly? I can understand why mapleshade would be disgusted with her specifically because now that frecklewish knows appledusk is the father? She's probably happy to see the kits flailing around for their lives. At least that's probably how it looks to mapleshade anyways.
Now by no means am I saying that's what was going through frecklewish's mind when she saw the family of four struggling but at the same time? I kinda wouldn't put it past her to have a small satisfaction. Mostly? I do think she was like "I feel sorry for you but I'm not jumping in to help in a hopeless situation."
But given the behavior before their birth and after? It could be either one but I seriously doubt she would enjoy their suffering.
She didn’t see the kits struggle in the water. It was raining heavily and they’re said to be very small. So I heavily doubt she could have seen them after they were swept away.
It’s also possible that Harper Collins hired David cage which would explain many many many things
This sucks, but I am also very disappointed that they gave no creativity up to the readers. Like, it would’ve been fine if they just said “it’s up to the readers!” But instead they basically say “Yeah, your interpretations are wrong this is the only right one.”
Like what’s wrong with giving a opportunity for readers to come up with interesting ideas?
I really hope that in a starless clan a ton of StarClan cats like, Hollyleaf, Leafpool, Neddletail, etc. leave StarClan and turn into what Fallen Leaves is and help the clans in an even better way.
Frecklewish is a giant wasted occasion to show: PTSD (from seeing her brother's death) and what it does to you on pages and the giant fraud that is StarClan (or an interesting plot with her choosing to go in the DF out of guilt).
After all Oakstar went in "heaven" (exile of a nursing queen and kits that are too young? Against the Code and he literally says: "With all of RiverClan, it had to be him?" 'cause he was acting out of feeling and not real justice and impartiality), Appledusk that broke the Code and showed in front of everyone that he could turn against his mate as easy as ever got away with it, Ashfur got in with the "Being obessed over someone is real love and he just got mad", Rainflower isolated and verbally attacked her own son (in a scene she insult him and tells him he'll never be like his brother) and made sure to give him and humiliating name out of nothing but sadism, Russetfur was ready to let a kit die (if the Thunderclan patrol didn't find Berrykit, he wasn't going to free himself and stop the bleeding with magical powers) and never showed remorse but got in and Kate even said that Tom, the same cat who lied to his mate (never told her the humans would take away her kits) to keep her with him, phisically abused his housemate 'cause she told the truth, kidnapped the kits and caused his mate's death (as Turtle Tail was running to search the stolen kits when she got on the road) by doing that and, always by Kate's words, could have possibly abused the kits to have power over Turtle Tail and considered them simple property ("That's why One Eye hurting one of them was unacceptable", quoting her blog)... went to a "kittypet heaven" and other kittypets would tell him how to be gentler.
On the other paw: Mapleshade was mentally unstable, while killing is NOT justifiable only 'cause we sympathize with her, why should a psycopath obsessed over a she-cat be more forgivable than someone who couldn't reason like a lucid person (cat)?
Frecklewish avoided killing herself and probably got some good ol' cliché flashback to her brother (I don't even like her character, that doesn't mean I appreciated the missed occasion).
Everyone who killed another cat by accident still broke the Code, those who killed 'cause they wanted to were still granted forgiveness (I love Blackstar anyway and he does gets forgiven and doubt himself, but that doesn't change the past) the moment they changed in life, alright, Juniperclaw saved two lives (after not even killing anyone) and let himself drown to make amends, but he got still sent to Cat Hell and the only thing StarClan could say about cats who fought against Ashfur was: "What they did in death is not important. They should have had redeemed themselves in life!" spitting on their redemption (and poor Snowtuft, who died to do the right thing) while I don't recall cats like Rainflower asking forgiveness in life or doing something more than congratulating Crookedstar once (when he just became a warrior).
At this point, I was expecting them to let him Tigerstar and forgive him with some moronic: "Mapleshade said she guided every step of his, so he was a poor little puppet" excuse.
And let's not forget: lying to Squirrelflight to force her accept kits that could have been taken in with any other explanation and then putting her and her sisters on trial for the lies and such.
There is one big occasion to do a good book with StarClan as protagonist and it's with Dark Forest ghosts who shouldn't have been there and living cats as well taking out the trash.
So in the logic of the story team rainflower, bluestar, russetfur's patrol, clear sky(remember his suggestion to kill the kits) should be in the dark forest
Would LeopardStar kinda count with the fact she allowed Tigerstar to have her own deputy along with Featherkit and Stormkit executed because they were half-clan?
If Frecklewish deserved to go to the Dark Forest
then Onestar deserved to go there
and honestly many more StarClan cats...
12:48 it was. also I hate this so much I have a headcanon that frecklewish is in starclan because it’s not in the books so it still has some wiggle room
Edit: just fixed the timestamp
As someone who has never read a Warriorcats book though have been following backlash through prominent Warriorcat creators (such as Moonkitti and Quiet Rage), it appears the main reason people stick around is the threat that the series could get better, although it doesn't. Media that is popular only because there is so much missed potential the fanfiction is 99.9% superior is the saddest reason for sticking with a series, in my opinion. Frecklewish, you didn't deserve this...
"Ummm I'm sorry, but who fucking asked you??" That made me laugh XD
I love warriors and even the new books but sometimes I question whether or not the authors read what they put on their page (looking at you flamepaw who says that sorrelstripe mothered him even though it was daisy that mothered them, though that makes squirrlflights hope non-canon so that’s a plus)
The people who wrote that are Mapleshade apologists who believed her 100%. That, or the new authors genuinely just do not read the older books.
Like lets be serious here for a moment. These new authors are trying to say that being smart and NOT rushing into an overflowing flooding rapid river when you CANT SWIM to attempt saving someone else, ESPECIALLY when people who CAN swim are there and already trying to help. No, Frecklewish wasn't perfect. But if she goes to the Dark Forest for not dying to try and fail to save kits, which would have just led to 4 deaths instead of 3, then why the hell is the leader who exiled said kits and their mentally unstable mother in Starclan? Why was Ashfur, who attempted murder of three clanmates and his leader, in Starclan? Why is Mudclaw, who led a coup with Hawkfrost to try and kill his leader and was literally smited by Starclan, in Starclan? Literally the only common thread here are that the worse cats who got into Starclan are toms and the one who went to the Dark Forest for actually being logical is a she-cat. I despise the fact that there are genuinely people who believe Frecklewish deserves hell for not dying in a failed attempt to save the kits.
This sums up my thoughts almost exactly. Like what was the story team thinking?? I personally believe that they put this out to stamp on the backlash and it was probably one or two people who weren't used to PR situations and messed up badly. What they should've done is changed the DF section and taken Freckle out or stayed silent. Mistakes happen and I'm sure the first option would have ended the backlash for the most part and the second option wouldn't've added fuel to fire the way the response did.
the kits mother mapleshade isn't in starclan tho other then that I completely agree
@@BugsyBugYT I said the leader who exiled the kits alongside their mother. I'm fully aware Mapleshade's in the Dark Forest.
@@sterthester736 oh srry i didnt get it
In my opinion, even though I don’t like the fact that Frecklewish called the kits “half clan” kits, I honestly think that her anger was justified. Because think about it, she had found out about her brothers horrible, horrible death. And was clearly still grieving as it’s shown in the books, and when she finds out that Mapleshade was having kits that was apparently “his”, she obviously wants to protect them right? Not only because they’re the only connection to her brother that she has left technically, but also because she wouldn’t want anything to happen to them. It’s clear by how she guards Mapleshade and the kits, and how she interacts before the exiling scene. So imagine, that the mother of the kits who you were protecting, who’s kits you thought were your dead brother’s kits, who you loved with all your heart, turned out to be LYING in everyone’s face. And before you say “oh but Mapleshade didn’t really say that the kits were Birchface’s”, the fact that she let that lie go on for much longer, the fact that she didn’t even DENY the claims, and that she basically made everyone, including Birchfaces family that those were his kits. THATS LYING. But anyway, so after all this, Frecklewish just absolutely EXPLODES with anger. And honestly? Rightly so. I don’t know ANYONE who would react calmly or rationally in that situation. Hell, if I were in her paws it would take the whole clan to get me off Mapleshade. She had literally spat lies in everyone’s face, including Birchface’s grave on top of that all to cover up her forbidden romance. Queen or not, that is still fucked up, and you still have to pay the consequences for your actions, rather if you’re a queen or not. I’m not saying that Frecklewish’s actions towards the kits were justified though. Since they weren’t even born when this whole thing started, and it is a fucked up thing to punish, and yell at someone all for being born. But that being said, I don’t think she deserved the dark forest. Not at all. Not in the slightest. And even if she did, why not put Oakstar there too? He was the one to exile the kits and Mapleshade. Well, Mapleshade was understandable, but the kits? Hell no. I don’t think that the “story team” has realized how much they fucked up with this single 4 paragraph article. And honestly? I’m hoping that people talk about this enough to where they can realize their mistake.
I have a feeling that the "story team" went on the defensive because they decided at some point to use Frecklewish as a villain for the new series & were desperately hoping to change people's minds so that they'd accept one of the said villains when she reveals herself...
and not to mention, appledusk TURNED against mapleshade, basically calling her a monster and it was her fault, he deserved what came to him
Yeah, he blamed her for their deaths, the only thing that separates his response from Mapleshade’s is that he didn’t go murder mode (not excusing the cheating at all, he’s a bastard, but cheating is not an excuse for murder, especially since Mapleshade only got him because he took a death blow for Reedshine)
I think I read a fanfiction AU where Star clan became so corrupted that the clans fell apart, split up, and the few cats that were left called themselves groups rather than clans. And then they all got wiped out or something idk. I also don't know if that was even the plot. All I know is there were groups and no starclan or smth🚬🗿👍
If this happens to Wings of Fire I will DIE!!!!!! I love Warriors and WoF, but if any more of this- this GARBAGE is dumped out through books like Warriors and WoF, I'm DONE!!!!! No more second chances. NO MORE! I'm DONE!! I'm even writing my OWN book, based off of Warriors, and I've got a lot of good reviews, mostly from family, but still. I promised myself to never let MONEY and RICHES control or squash my creativity.
AYO SAME! After watching vids and reading docs on what was wrong with warriors I revamped my warrior OCs into their own universe
Now dubbed The Six Colonies!
Agree with you, only arc 1-5 arcs for me are best, 6-8 arcs is trash
Oh god Im already hyped for this video
If StarClan was to truly follow the logic they used to put Frecklewish in cat hell, then the Dark Forest would've won The Great Battle.
Another reason for Oakstar to be in the dark forest? He lead raids on twolegplace and attacked kittypets in their own gardens!
How about a Frecklewish Super Edition??? Lets go Frecklewish’s Very Unfair Totally Unneeded Punishment.
not a bad idea! but i think a novella would be better. a super edition including LOTS of pages, and the issue on Frecklewish could be solved in less than 200 pages.
“Frecklewish’s Placement” sounds nice as a title. what do you think? :)
The sad bit is if it were ever a super edition, the best idea would have Vicky write it, but because she’s gone it’s too obvious that the story team will turn a blind eye to their fans and have Frecklewish’s personality nowhere close to how she acted in Mapleshade’s Vengeance, unless the chosen writer is aware of it. Though I do prefer a novella over a super-edition, if this ever does happen I hope anything I stated will never become true.
This is why I’m making a fanfiction where all the clan cats realized they’re being used as puppets by starclan and abandoning ship
I've only started reading dawnnof the clans and Gray Wing would never he is such a good boy
28:41 HOW DO YOU COME UP WITH THESE??? 🤣 🤣 🤣
She targeted REEDSHINE not even appledusk
Her initial target was Appledusk.
Unpopular opinion: Frecklewish didn't deserve the dark forest, but she wasn't a good cat either. She attacked a mother in front of her kits (I'd say she would have had the right to do it if the kits weren't there), then proceeded to call said kits "half-clan creatures", both of which would have definitely truamatized them if they hadn't drowned the same day. Just like Mapleshade, Frecklewish's grief doesn't justify her actions. It can only make her reasons somewhat understandable. Then she just watched the kits drown. "But Frecklewish can't swim!" No one's telling her to swim. She could have warned Mapleshade. And then when Mapleshade confronts her, she said she wished that Mapleshade had died, which I guess is understandable considering Maplsshade had killed a cat, but I highly doubt ThunderClan knew how Ravenwing actually died at the time. They probably blamed RiverClan or something. Anyway, Freckelwish was also the first to say that Mapleshade and her kits should be exiled. While I get that's not her choice, she's Oakstar's daughter, and considering how much Oakstar favors his kin, her words most likely influnenced him at least a bit. However, if Frecklewish goes to the dark forest, Appledusk and Oakstar should too, for what they did is far worse. No, cheating on Mapleshade wasn't Appledusk's only crime. He also murdered Birchface. I don't think it was an accident since he showed no signs of guilt. And literally no one denied that Frecklewish was a jerk until it was revealed she's a dark forest cat. In conclusion, Freckelwish didn't deserve the dark forest, but she was still in the wrong.
Only thing I disagree with is appledusk not feeling guilty
Towards the gathering there is a scene where he stiffened at the mention of birchface’s death, he’s clearly haunted and even guilty from that
But everything else I agree with
literally everybody is not a good person :/ nobody is a pure hearted person I think frecklewish shouldn’t have attacked maple shade especially infront of the children and I really think apple dusk should have gone to the dark Forrest but how could freckle warn maple? she couldn’t have known we’re she was going to do that what would she have done walk up to maple as she perpared to swim over after they just exiled her and freckle attacked her and called maples kits monsters :/
@@PurpleCatCreation cheating isn’t dark forest worthy, appledusk was not the best cat I agree but he did nothing hell worthy
And I agree no one is good except the kits, perchpaw and reedshine
I keep hearing that one of Mapleshades kits warned her about it being to high for them to cross. So think that Maple may have knew already but decided not to listen-
@@meeplol145 Yes petalkit, one of her kits had warned her about how there was too much water which mapleshade proceeded to ignore
I think Mapleshade’s Vengeance’s biggest flaw is that it’s a novella, not a super edition. I wish we could see the buildup of Mapleshade’s downfall into villainy and her and Appledusk’s relationship. I have a theory: At first, Appledusk was blinded by the excitement of a half Clan relationship and Mapleshade’s strength. But after accidentally pushing Birchface into the river, and with Reedshine’s help, he began to realize how foolish he was. At the gathering, he’s planning how he’s going to break up with Mapleshade, but drops it after Mapleshade tells him about their kits. So he decides to push the break up to after the kits are apprentices when he can see them at gatherings. But then, yeah
For Frecklewish, Mapleshade was originally going to kill Oakstar, but after that plan goes awry, she decides to kill Frecklewish to cause Oakstar even more pain (just like she leaves Crookedstar alive so he was forced to live apart from everyone he loved)
Wow. After hearing about what the 'story team' said I'm not going to pay out one penny for the books or official merch. If I want to even have a look at the content there's used book stores and I'm pretty sure they don't make a profit from second hand books. If there were more people writing other interest cat series (one's without a big ol' 'story team' and co-authors though the books would likely not be published so prolifically but it would then have a chance of having less errors in continuity esp if the author had a series bible).
i think you are the only creator that makes me laugh and make me have a critical view. and thanks finally i am stop it caring about warriors the books are kinda dead
Oh boy THIS is gonna be good 🍿
Fox cloud, one of my OCs, went to the dark forest for directly murdering two apprentices (who were underage btw which is Saltstars fault) in cold blood. By the story teams logic. Oak star should’ve gone to the dark forest, he did way more than frecklewish ever did to cause the kits deaths.
I don't think people put into account that Frecklewish could have died as well! She's not RiverClan! and trying to help kits during a STORM when she's inexperienced with swimming while also seeing RIVERCLAN CATS HELPING, yeah I think assuming RiverClan rescued them was reasonable...
Heck, Mapleshade herself almost died during this scene!
Starclan: “Oh yea y’all aren’t playthings”
*Ashfur and litterly everyone else in starclan:*
Yeah honestly now starclan sucks
Why is Juniperclaw in the dark forest like Wtf
He’s in the darkforest because he tried to kill sparrowpelt(?) I think that’s her name. When he stuffed deathberry seeds into a vole that she ate.
@@0.721x I thought Sparrowpelt was a guy?
I agree with the Story Team. I'd go so far as to say Oakstar and maybe Appledusk/Ravenwing also deserve the dark forest. We have literal author confirmation that she deserves the DF, and that should mean something.
However, they aren’t the ones who wrote Mapleshade’s Vengeance. Vicky Holmes was the *only* person who wrote that book. Vicky herself said that Frecklewish is in Starclan. (Ravenwing and Appledusk, too.) So, these random ass “new authors” are stepping all over *the original author’s* statement out of pettiness and the fact that they are all Mapleshade apologists. If it wasn’t for the fact of Mapleshade being an important Dark Forest leader, we probably would have gotten an article about why she is actually in Starclan.
@@Angie_Ashf3rn Honestly I completely agree with them and am frankly very happy. I hope we see Freckle in the DF in canon soon. I agree with how they perceive Maple and Freckle as characters 🤷♂️
@@pigeonax that’s actually a likely possibility!
*(SPOILERS FOR RIVER!!!)*
the newest book has a golden-spotted cat with amber eyes that appears as a ghost! Maybe we will get a villain Frecklewish? IM HYPED FOR THAT!!!!! I love her and want to see her go feral!!!!!
@@Angie_Ashf3rn YOOOOO I haven't read it yet I am the most excited !!!! I want to see her hardened by the DF SOO hard
@@pigeonax SAME OMG!!!! I haven’t read it either but spoilers have gotten me 😭🤣
I recommend watching Bright Guardian Akira’s video on it, cause it’s pretty cool!
FreckleWish's situation is a gray area thing, but these people decided to make it black and white. Frecklewish's anger and her "not following rule 12 in the warrior code" isn't a black and white thing, it's more of in the gray area. I don't think she meant what she said to both MapleShade and her kits, she's was just grieving for a loss that was exploited.
Another Edit: Especially when her the name of her lost bro was exploited to cover up the fact that the kits' father was the tom responsible for her bro's death. Hopefully u can understand why she would be pissed off by the news. I think some of my points were already addressed in this vid but whatever.
Edit: Also MapleApple kits my beloved UWU 💕💖
Shouldn’t the shadowclan cats that watched berrykit almost die from a fox trap be in the dark forest with the writers logic 😃
mhm, they frustrated me so much in that scene. the fact that the get off scott-free for laughing at a dying child is actually awful.
Yup, but the "story team" aka the idiots doing the website (not even the writers, the Erins themselves don't know what goes on on the website, probably not even the editors themselves for all we know, remember the communication thing they mention is laughable af) are stupid.
Yes they should be there.
Rowanclaw(star), Cedarheart, and Russetfur should be in cat hell but look at that they aren’t because the writing teams is stupid af
i have always believed frecklewish did see the kits struggling in the water, but lost sight of them in the rain, which explains why she believed so strongly (desperately) that the riverclan cats would help her and the kits. i don't think thats what the authors intended, but i have ALWAYS believed frecklewish just truly didn't know. if she knew the kits would die, she wouldn't have reacted the way she did to mapleshade later.
I’m gonna be completely honest- Vicky gives off so many red flags. From this to her horrifically awful original response to the Ukrainian crisis by fucking comparing a real life war to a Warrior cats book…. She really doesn’t seem like a good person. At best a very naive woman.
One more thing I find interesting is that with Warrior Cats it’s begun to be impossible to tell what’s actually cannon with characters. It’s like fnaf- everything is constantly retconned, contradicted or horribly misunderstood because there are just SO many authors and editors and none of them seem to care about consistency. The fandom has made a better cannon than the team themselves. Everything in this series should be taken with a grain of salt cuz anything could be changed at any moment.
Though she is not a perfect cat ive seen people explain that she did kind of push her truama onto the kits, only loving them while her phantsy about them being her brothers then once they arent she imeditaly hates them for something they cant control witch bothers me as well but that there does not mean she should be in DF no no she is a flawed being and thats ok
How dare the story team do that to Gray Wing! That pisses me off so fucking much!
Your mention of Wings of Fire aged quite unfortunately now that Axolotl was introduced in book 15 like they were a shitty self-insert OC made by a 13 year old fan on Twitter
Which, by the way, isn’t to say that Wings of Fire is as bad as Warriors, not even close, but book 15 read like a fanfic rather than an official book
@@punkpink975 Yeah, book 15 felt very unreal, hardly anything made sense -