The cats know fractions. Mistystar says "at least two thirds of the Clan" in the new book. They know fractions. The cats are small, furry people who know fractions.
I don’t think they had gender in mind when they wrote it, but rather cats. Gender dimorphism is very subtle and not really that big, especially in humans. And these are just humans as cats. It doesn’t really effect the story, and I’m pretty sure they just rolled dice for genders. And besides, gender isn’t anything you should judge or predict anyone or anything off of. I don’t really know though, so feel free to point out anything wrong or correct me.
I think it would make it far worse. Cats are very sexually dimorphic, far more so than humans are. As presented in the series, female warriors are just as capable of males. But if you wanted to make it realistic, then any fight a female cat has with a male should end with the male casually swatting her aside with contemptuous ease and always getting his way unless ganged up on.
@@klikssiikubra314 this is just simply not true, female cats are just as aggressive and capable of defending themselves as much as male cats are. i’ve grown up with many cats in my life, stray or house kept, and never has there been a time where a male cat “swatted a female to the side with contemptuous ease.” i don’t even know where you could’ve heard that, but it’s completely wrong.. i’m not even mad or anything i’m just confused.
I want at least one warrior cat character to get the zoomies. Some warrior on a border patrol and all of a sudden they sprint back and forth, leaping off boulders and pouncing on leaves and scrabbling up trees. I want to see that happen right now.
Unfortunately, they probably won't unless they're a kitten, a grounded apprentice, or a really restless elder. Irl cats get the zoomies from being inactive for long periods of time, which isn't helped by living in a house where your owner doesn't want you to knock over stuff while you're darting around. A warrior and a typical apprentice have constant exercise with hunting and border patrols, but kittens (especially older ones) would get the zoomies and bother their clanmates. The most you'd get is a newly-minted apprentice, excited to finally be out of camp, running around with their poor mentor trailing behind them.
@@inkylynx2777 This is actually incorrect. The zoomies happen not just from inactive periods, but when a cat is placed in an environment they feel safe and happy enough to let loose like a kitten would. I've helped care for ferals/strays who could come and go as they wished in a protected area, and I'd seen zoomies happen. It's a play behavior, much like wrestling or play pouncing on each other, though as they age they'll start doing it less and less.
@@Eskiwen Ah, alright, thanks for clarification. I thought it was more or less the same thing as rabbits experienced, but I guess different animals do the same thing for different reasons.
@@inkylynx2777 hey, no problem! you are correct in that it's a buildup of energy - think of it more like how small kids will sometimes just start running for what seems like very little reason. It's also very difficult to break cats out of zoomies, even when you offer an alternative play - I consider it cat 'stimming' in a sense hahah.
Warriors needs a term like boyfriend or girlfriend cause in the latest book Sunbeam refers to Blazefire, a cat she was courting at the time, as her "special friend." Twigbranch and Finleap could have also benefited from a word like that.
There's actually a bit in Crookedstar's promise where the cats marking territory was described as spraying. I remember cause it just felt really weird to read lmao
I think one weird, recent change, is the cats' ability to cry. Like, obviously the cats *can* cry. In Tallstar's revenge, soil lands in Tallkit's eyes and his eyes water up in response. But I'm specifically talking about cats crying in sadness. You know, a very human and not cat-like behaviour. In older books, they don't cry to communicate sadness. But in more recent ones? Yeah, totally. They totally do. Like in Leopardstar's super edition. When Whitepaw's mother dies, he climbs into Leopardfur's nest, and they cat-hug as he sobs into her fur. Or when Rootspring loses Brostlefrost. I'm pretty sure, at some point, his eyes begin to water and his vision blurs. These are sweet scenes, but at the time I was kind of like, "this isn't normal, right? Cats don't cry from sadness, right??"
cats crying from sadness has been so widely shown and accepted in the warriors fandom that i didnt even stop to think that crying wasnt normal for cats-
I like the idea that Warrior Cats are literally an entire subsecies of cat. Born with eyes open, their eye color for life, patterns imiediaty shown, growing at different rates, increased intelligence, different schedules, etc etc etc
taking what @Lui said and using it as evidence, the cats can do math. i dont doubt theyll make music and other art forms canon. they could invent their own written language for all we know! also, i think an intersex cat being born could help introduce the concept of being lgbtq+ in the books if not purely from another cat culture.
I read that book! Well, one or two. My main experience with that series was the spinoff, Wolves of the Beyond. Another master class in world building with animal characters!
Or Duncton Wood, which is about British moles. The author actually studied moles for 20+ years, so the characters are very accurate to real mole behavior. I highly recommend reading it. It's long and wordy, but it is such a great story, you wouldn't regret it!
There's an AU rewrite of warriors on AO3 by FatalBlow and there the Clans have actual differences, they call each other Rivers, Thunders, Shadows, Winds. They stand on their two legs, have knives, and how certain events happen are changed and it's really well written. Cats like Cinderpelt legit have amputated limbs rather than just dead leg slowing them down. The writer there actually kinda makes it a point to say in one line of dialogue "she'll still have 3 good ones." as if to point out "Yes cats can move around fine with one limb missing." And deaf cats function in that world as well. They sign. It's hard to imagine but the writer takes the "the cats are people" to a good level there. They do swear a LOT it's almost funny how much they curse. I wish the rest of the series had been finished cause they only have Into the Wild, Fire and Ice, and Rising Storm finished. I like the world they built. I wish the actual books had that-where you could tell the clans are DIFFERENT. That's what a lot of fanfic gets right.
it would have been amazing if they made the Sisters a group that paid attention to the growth of the young, and maybe the whole ghost and earth thing wasn't innate but showed up in the males at certain ages, so when a mother noticed her son talking to a ghost or using the ability they have, she'd be forced to remove them from the group as it was their time. It'd be interesting if Squirrelflight started noticing tomkits going missing here and there and the mother's being a bit solemn but smiling with a 'it was their time'. LIKE FERAL CATS HAVING EMOTION?
Another instance of cat act too human syndrome in warriors and one that really irked me was in one of greystripes mangas after escaping the human family that he was living with he started to chase around a moth playfully then immediately stopped with the most dreaded expression saying that only kits play with moths and it was very strange cuz one of THE main characteristics to defining if a species is hyper intelligent or not is their playfulness. Its so weird seeing none of the cats in warriors engage in any sort of playfulness with each other other than when they are kits. Not even the teenager apprentice cats engage in normal playful teenager stuff like hanging out or being rebellious. Instead warriors dictates how smart they are by how much they work. Every cat in warriors has a job, immediately after leaving their moms kittens enroll in training to work, teenagers learn how to work, warriors whole lives are dedicated to working unless their literally pregnant, really old, or have some sort of disability (and in that case any disabled cat is made to feel useless for having a disability because all the other cats work and they do not, which is a very human problem) basically many of the authors of warriors dont see playfulness, curiosity, or even a large family like bond with your own clan (even the clans work more like one big working system and not the big interwoven family it likes to make itself seem) as hyper intelligence they only see working as a trait that defines a species as intelligent and ngl thats kinda really fucking worrying
Finally someone brought up (if only briefly) how all warriors do is just work and patrol and never relax. It's been bothering me hardcore since I reread Guardians of Ga'hoole and enjoyed all their little harvest celebrations and holidays, time spent hanging out in the library and visits to Trader Mags' shop, all things that Warriors just doesn't have equivalents to. (GOG also is way more successful at having its characters act like animals despite the more unrealistic setting, and owl biology is frequently used for plot points) I feel like more frequently having leisure activities or celebrations like that one Olympics they held in PO3, or even just celebrating the passing of seasons could do a lot to make the clans feel less... depressing? Soul crushing?? Also I agree I think the Sisters are way more interesting than the Clans from a lore perspective. I'm all for flawed cat societies btw, as long as the authors are willing to dismantle them within the narrative *intentionally.* The Erins have been super resistant to truly changing the status quo though, but maybe ASC will turn things around with the code changes? Idk my hopes aren't super high
I’ve got some fanfics, but the only real thing I’ve improved upon was keeping around deaf and disabled cats as warriors. Snowfoot(deaf cat) and Hopspring(cat born with shriveled front legs) have both been cared for by their clan and are valued senior warriors by the time my fic starts. Snowfoot worked out a system of mock sign language via tail movement, ear flicks, specific expressions, and stomps to speak to his Clan, and even kits in the clan are raised being taught it. While he does need another warrior by his side for most battles, it’s been noted that another Clans strategies of confusing their enemies with echoes is notably useless against him which makes him an asset. Hopspring was briefly considered to be deputy before he passed on it himself. It is awkward for him to walk around, and he’s admittedly not the greatest hunter, but he has a sharp mind and a kind heart, making him excellent for forming strategies and mentoring other cats. He’s also been noted to be strangely graceful in battle, as he’s good at using his weight to his advantage. Hell, we even have a kittypet who was declawed in his front paws before joining the clan. He’s a surprisingly effective hunter, and he’s been able to utilize his paws as grappling limbs and sharp blows. He once accidentally knocked out an apprentice by striking the side of her head with his strength.
@@flamepelt3092 ironically, the declawed warrior(Badgerheart) is based off of my cat(I was not consulted in declawing him as I was seven), who’s actually more capable than the barn cats I know. He’s scaled every house in the neighborhood, he regularly catches birds and has left us several squirrels as gifts. I swear I’ve been bruised by him before from getting hit by a swipe, and he knows how to grapple hold with his paws. He’s one of the most capable cats I know. However, you are correct. It’d be a great way to explain to younger audiences why it’s so cruel.
I remember from one of the SkyClan mangas, when Leafstar when in the Twoleg nest, she had to jump off the furniture to reach the door knob, despite being a cat who can naturally jump over 6 feet high AND a SkyClan cat who are known to be able to jump extra high
unrelated but something i'd love for you to talk about is how in the original series shadowclan actually had lots of rogues/loners join their clan, and much more than thunderclan did. i feel like later on they tried pushing that shadowclan doesn't like non clan born cats, but lots of the respected warriors were not clan born
Exactly, thank you!!! Jesus Christ, ages in Warriors are already messed up, I personally don't care that much about DustFern but seeing them being put on the same level as ThistleSpotted... Yikes, it's not that at all!
this also happens in crookedstar’s promise where its mentioned how they wait for (iirc) leopardkit to be 6 moons old so that all the kits are apprenticed together even though the others (iirc blackkit loudkit sedgekit and frogkit) are about a moon or two moons older
But ye. It rly bugs me when ppl are like "they can't be lgbt! They're cats!" You see it a lot with trans hcs especially. It's such a silly argument. Like they have organized religion n shit, i think they can question their gender
Seriously lmao! "Oh, I can accept that these cats are given 9 lives by their undead ancestors, but I draw the line at this one character being trans!" You mean we can pick and choose which concepts are too far-fetched in this FANTASY story, and cat-possession is somehow acceptable, but being LGBT isn't? Hello??
Yeah, it’s especially weird when cats can be gay irl. And when it makes more logical sense for them to be, for example, trans. Like, male tortoiseshell/calico cats are incredibly rare naturally, while tortie/calico female cats are quite common. So logically, if we have multiple male tortie/calico cats then the odds are one of them could be trans. (This got me thinking of how cool it would be to have an arc surrounding the Sisters with a trans tom who has the special magic guy powers and the drama with the sisters not wanting to kick him out with the other boys but him needing to so they avoid the wrath of their ancestors and now I just really want that so so bad)
@@dusk823 trans animals exist in the form of some species, like fish. My friend had all female catfish, until one of them morphed into a male to make sure the population wouldn't die out.
I think it's fine that they dip more to the human side since it allows the authors to come up with more ideas. It also allows the readers, which are usually young children to understand more. It wouldn't be as fun if we read about them sleeping for most of the day or having a border fight every other day
I agree but also disagree; having them be more authentically cat-like would be a nice educational experience for readers of the books, and there are still plenty of ways to cause conflict in that setting - arguably more. Without healing systems cats would die of disease, without armies they’d be picked off by predators, stuff like that
@@aposterous4126 true, although that's way less relatable and requires a lot less character-driven plots some people prefer them but I find them boring to read not saying WC is well written but it'd be less accessible if it were more real animal-like but!! arguably better, since the characters are mostly bland anyway
For these reasons i love contrasting warriors with books like Tailchaser's song! Tailchaser's song addresses how cats largely communicate with eachother via body language, but also has a literal monarchy. Both are goofy and unrealistic and its fun to see how they contrast! Im a sucker for wildly unrealistic animal books
It's easy to write a book about animals by stretching the rules and making them basically just like people, and it's easy for an audience to relate to for sure. (And I do love Warriors!) But man, what I think is super cool is authors who are able to go beyond that. Silverwing is a book (technically series) about bats that uses their migratory habits and echolocation to develop the culture of the bats and mythology of their world (it also factors in their color blindness)! Or Fire Bringer, a book about deer that works deer social structure and instinct to fight for mates right into the story in a way that feels natural despite being a book about talking animals with a prophecy to fulfill. Both of these examples obviously aren't realistic either and take some creative liberties -- in Silverwing, vampire bats are carnivores with a 6 foot wingspan and in Fire Bringer, the antagonist forms a military and the protagonist more or less has a superpower -- but they take an animal's real behaviors and physiology and work it into the plot and I think that's really neat.
I love those book series! And oo, it's been a while since I read Silverwing. Perhaps I should reread the series again. Also, do you have any other animal protagonist series suggestions similar to those books? So far I've read a few, like Firebringer (the one with unicorns), Song of the Summer King, The Named (Ratha's Creature), The Sight (by the same author of Fire Bringer (the deer)), and etc, but I'm interested in more alike series.
Not sure if anyones mentioned this yet but in the last book of the broken code(forgor what its called), when needletail is trying to push through the border between starclan and the dark forest, it says at one point that she can fit her head through but not her whole body. But, in real life, cats supposedly have no collar bones and thus if they can fit their head through something, they should be able to fit everything else too. This is sometimes false, like when a cat is overweight, but when old cats go to starclan their body is changed to make it more comfortable than a shaggy old ass cat, so presumably underweight and more importantly to the argument overweight cats in starclan would be a healthy weight, no? So theres no reason needletail shouldnt have been able to get through at that point It is a small nitpick in a series where cats literally can be colored blue, pink, or yellow, but ya know, something i noticed (Also i might be wrong about this and the ‘cats having no collarbones so they can fit through anything their head can’ thing might be untrue i didnt look it up)
I think in a documentary about cats it said that cats have a collarbone, but not attached to the cat’s skeleton, allowing the cat to slip through tight spaces.
I feel like it would've been more interesting for the sisters, If that toms leaving was portrayed more like a coming of age Rite rather than a requirement. Like toms will only be considered proper adults once they leave on their pilgrimage. Maybe the toms who have chosen to stay can train and prepare the next generation of kits for this journey. Maybe mollys could then have their own coming of age Rite to parallel what the toms do, I am not sure what this Rite would entail though. This was just a thought experiment though, heavily influenced by the channel worldbuilding notes. This ain't realistic or all the much better either, but I love having more explanation than just a non described tradition.
@@JustLilyTbh i mean, "tom" means an unneutered male cat, but that's not how it's used in the books or fandoms. nitpicking semantics around how people refer to warrior cats genders isn't productive. it's warrior cats, 'molly' is a lot easier to say than 'she-cat' and matches 'tom' better. this whole video's about how we're not talking irl cat biology, like...
one other but very minor detail is that the male cats in art are never depicted with tomcat jowls. in real unneutered male cats, the flesh and fur around their cheeks will grow due to testorone. it's very prominent in feral cats, and it's used to help cushion attacks from other males while searching for female colonies. they're never shown on any male cat in the series, or described in the books as far as i know. pretty strange, but again, the cats are anthropormized for the most part, even if not that much physically
I only know this because I'm rereading Crookedstar's Promise rn but there's a part of that book where they do explicitly refer to marking the border as "spraying," which is the only time I can remember them specifying in terms other than "renewing the border markers" or whatever, so maybe they didn't want to add many direct references to peeing. It does seem like they would need a LOT of fluids for each patrol though lol. Would have been funny if there had been a casual note about the border marks being faint in The Fourth Apprentice because of the drought.
I think it just depends on specific instances. The old books they acted much more like actual cats(with still a lot of human traits thrown in). Ex. It being flat out stated male cats don't raise the kits and mates not really being "married". They go back an forth a lot on how human or how cat-like these cats are, so it makes it difficult. I will say there are things I try to go "well they're just cats" about bc other wise it is a bit uncomfortable, (a freshly made warrior dating an apprentice). Yeah kits are kids, apprentices are teens, and warriors are an enigma, it's hard to pin down EXACTLY how old any of that is, since they don't just evolve like pokemon overnight, so an apprentice could be 15 and a new warrior could be like, 18, or any age in between or older/younger. who knows? But apprentice/warrior relationships happens often enough I'd like to say, for my own sanity, they're "just cats so it doesn't matter". (Plus I forget how old anyone is any way and half the time forget a character exists until they're mentioned again so I can't keep track enough to really notice or care how old anyone is. If they become mates I go, "oh, ok that's a thing" and move on) (DISCLAIMER: Thistle/spotted is still gross, even as animals an adult cat preying on a kitten is gross, Thistle is a gross old man, them being cats doesn't make it ok!)
You just read my mind. I don't understand why can't we look at them as a mixture of cat and human traits, it's obvious that they have them. Also, yes, no matter how we think about it, ThistlexSpotted is and will forever be an abomination.
It could just be a representation of how artificial their lives are. Natural human sleeping patterns and culture are much different than our current ones.
Yeah, I recently just learned that human sleeping patterns are naturally biphasic. We sleep for four hours, wake up and do whatever for an hour or more, and go back to sleep for four more hours. Then we wake up and have our merry day. Thank lightbulbs for why we don't sleep like this anymore.
@@inkylynx2777 My sleeping pattern is mad weird then..sometimes I do sleep like this other times I clock out at 8am then sleep till roughly 4pm in time for dinner, when I do fall asleep at night I tend to sleep all the way till after noon anyways (unless I keep waking up every 4-3 hours); I'm more of a nocturnal person I guess, I sleep better with a bit of light.
9:35 "No, not even Ferncloud. There is no evidence for that. Stop saying Ferncloud had kittens as a child. Please." Wow, people say that? Because not only there is no evidence for that, there IS evidence for her having kittens only after becoming an adult. In A Shadow in RiverClan, when Feathertail runs into Ferncloud, she mentions that she and Dustpelt were now (as in, then) mates.
@@emptybanana2126 well it’s not only you, many people have made this mistake. Ferncloud has always had a cloud of controversy in her relationship(s) so people misremembering that she was pregnant as a teen lined up with the assumptions about her. Thankfully, Ferncloud was an adult when she got pregnant lol.
I would love to have warriors keep certain cat habits like when they wake up and go to bed while continuing to make them form complex thoughts an actual cat would not be able to have.
When they'd say ”he sprayed his scent” I always had a pretty good idea of what they were trying to say. Then my younger sister showed it to me and said ”what does this mean?” I then had to think of a good way to tell her what they are doing
@@blackprimrose7541 yeah, but explain that to a little kid who doesn't understand that cats mark their territory in that way and views them as basically as humans changed into cats.
@@blackprimrose7541 Actually, no! They have specific scent glands they use to spray their scent! It's very similar to peeing, but it's a specific gland near the anus!
@@tinydancerpresents1504 I honestly would of explained it like spray painting ngl, "they make a liquid out of berries and spray it on the trees in the symbol of their clan to show that's their territory" haha; it's a little dumb but a kid would 100% believe it
5:01 i remember them describing it as "spraying" a few times (i think tigerstar in specific is describing doing this) and im fairly certain theyve mentioned scratching marks onto trees as well. they usually just say "marking the border" but they do say that the cats are spraying or clawing a few times that i can remember
They literally could use any other animal (dogs, squirrels, bunnies, mice, birds, even humans) in the place of cats in Warriors and it wouldn't make a difference in the story.
They already did, heard of Survivors? Characters are dogs and it's similar to Warrior Cats from what I could tell. Seekers is another one, about bears, though it's a little different. Bunnies would be a cute idea
I don't know about humans, would be weird if mothers constantly had twins, triplets, or even quadruplets. (And the fact that cats in this series actually do age like actual cats)
Points at a cat: That's a human person! You're very right though lol the "they're just cats" argument only works if they ACT like cats. Which they do not.
this is like that one video "on all levels except physical, i am a wolf. awoo!" except its a cat saying "on all levels except physical, i am a human. politics!"
I like to think of Warriors as akin to a series I read called Lost Dogs. To spare the trouble of looking it up, the overarching plot focuses on the spread of a disease that gives animals the intelligence of humans while at the same time being incredibly deadly to humans themselves, so basically, a bunch of humanoid pets running around without humans. I like to imagine the clans still as cats but with this added intelligence and humanity while rouges, kittypets, and the like are often the "unintelligent" or "normal" cats. The fact that they can have such complexity to their structure is unnatural to begin with. Additionally, there have been many a time cats outside the clan have shown disinterest, unease, or even disgust toward the concept of clan life. I can almost see this difference in characterization as a reason to classify them separately. Perhaps the best canonical rationale for this would be the existence of and connection to Starclan. Though I can't claim to know much as my memory doesn't serve me greatly here, I would propose that Bloodclan might have been one of the better examples of a more realistic feline narrative.
Bloodclan definitely is NOT any more realistic than the clans- they literally stick dog teeth into they're collars lmao. Also, loners and rogues are exactly the same as clan cats... They just don't live in a clan. The reason they may think differently or find clan life disgusting is because they were either raised and taught that way, or have had bad experiences with the clans. Their level of intelligence is no different... Also, I don't mean to sound rude lol- I'm just confused on what you mean.
@@warriorcatkitty Yeah, that's totally fair. It has been a while for me any ways, like I said. For the Bloodclan thing, I was more referring to the interactions between cats than the bones thing, which is definitely pretty weird. With rouges and stuff, they do seem to be less keen on learning and understanding their environment, instead tending to fret over pure survival, which I suppose may be seen as "less intelligent," although behavior can be a terrible indicator. That was more in reference to the difference between clans and outsiders being more "feral" or "realistic." To be fair, they're already talking cats so it's a bit difficult to make them realistic when it was never the prime intention to begin with.
Tbh, I hid in the warriors fandom for years trying to pretend I wasn't a furry. I'd be like: "They're on four legs, so it doesn't count!" XD I wasn't fooling anyone.
*THIS* is what I've always talked about, and it frustrates me when people _still_ try to tell me that they're 'just cats'! Mainly when people try to justify unacceptable things some characters have done [*cough**cough*, Thistleclaw- *cough*] By pointing the blame to them being cats, they are not cats. They're people in cat skins, they don't even show many cat-like behaviors- Things in real life cats do that is acceptable for them, but not for us is because they're unable to think like we do, and some things are just within their nature, Warrior Cats ignore that These cats can build religion and society, irl cats can't recognize their own reflection, there is a difference.
It also seems that when they start a new series they introduce a lot of cats that we’ve never heard of before in every clan except Thunderclan. No one knows where they come from. It’s fairly easy to keep track of who is related to who in Thunderclan even though as of late they are SO MANY of them
Oh I didn't think of that aspect of warriors at all, even though most of my experience is comparing them to real human social structures. It does put warriors in this weird spot though, where they're not quite human not quite cats, so anyone wanting to look up references for why they do things is out of luck. To take the apprentice age stuff as an example: IRL, cats can be adults at X months old, while for humans it's Y age, which may not sync up with the human-cat calculator age. So...where do warriors lie? They never really address "this cat is an adult so they should be made a warrior", it's "they're not an adult UNTIL they become a warrior regardless of age" which is... okay for the basic purpose of understanding things but when they're assigning intense plot points to cats its a little weird that readers dont have a mental reference for how old a cat is or what guides the society goes by. It CAN work but is something that the authors need to spend more time in actually thinking about and putting into the story with a specific language for these cats
Whenever you feel comfortable making that video about sexism in Warrior cats, I promise I will personally contribute, like, ten views, just like that Briarlight video
Cats have scent glands on a few different spots on their body. This means that when they rub up against something they leave behind a smell, and it's their smell. Cat's we keep in our home do this. They typically rub up against us, marking us as their own. They also have scent glands in their paws, meaning that when they scratch things, they leave their scent. I like to assume that this means in "Warrior Cats" the cats just nuzzle or scratch a tree or bush.
Tangentially related but this is why it bugs me sometimes when people will take criticism of wc being "unrealistic" to extremes.. like Yes of *course* the brand new apprentice is described as being Tiny compared to their mentor, that is a kindergartener. yes it's unrealistic for a 6 month old cat to be Significantly smaller than their mentor, but this is the Least of wc's writing problems to the point where that's not even a real problem, it's just the authors trying to make you feel emotions about babies. but i've seen some people blow that minor criticism so far out of proportion to the point where i've actually seen someone compliment a pmv Solely on the basis that the apprentices were drawn realistic sizes and guys it's not that big of a deal why does the collar color matter i'm so tired people please /lh anyways tho good video very excellent points 10/10 made me say "THANK YOU!" out loud several times.
It's not the unrealism that bothers me it's the inconsistency. If the cats seemed to grow at about the same rate as cat would in real life I would expect that the sizes would follow the same rule too, but no. if the cats didn't mature as real cats I probably wouldn't care bout the inaccurate size but the inconsistency just ruined it a lil bit for me. I find it silly for a cat of 6 moons to be described as tiny like they are the half of the size of there mentor. If this was the only flaw in warriors this wouldn't be much of a problem but it's the fact that it is in a sea of small flaws and inconsistency that makes the enjoyment of warriors a bit hard sometimes. I do agree that some people take these nick pics problems too far especially when it comes to Dovewing eyes and Scourge color. Although I don't like that it's an inconsistency, the absolute arguments wars bc of these small flaws are ridiculous when we can spend that energy on the bigger flaws.
*so ew I have to bring thistle into this but like….”oh there just cats” I’m sorry? Does that justify Thistleclaw’s weird disgusting behavior in the um. spottedleaf book you know. “Oh cats just do that!!!” so you think I’m still comfortable with the stuff he did? No sorry*
It’s kinda weird to me when people complain about this because, from my experience, animals actually acting like animals in media is pretty rare. The only things I can think of where they do act like their animals is watership down and the movie spirit. And even then I can’t be sure. Idk I just don’t like when people complain about this cause to me the point of fiction is that it doesn’t have to be realistic.
Check out Call of the Wild and White Fang, both by Jack London. Realistically-written dog and wolfdog characters that aren't anthropomorphized. There's also The Last Eagle by Daniel Mannix (about bald eagles) and The Incredible Journey by Sheila Burnford (the book not the film). Nonhuman, non-speaking protagonists. A book that sits somewhere in the middle between "mostly-realistic talking animals" (like Watership Down) and "100% realistic non-speaking animals" (like White Fang) is Pax by Sara Pennypacker. It's about foxes, and they communicate in something that's a *little* like dialogue but not *exactly* (and it's still implied that they're communicating like normal animals, it's just "translated"). Pennypacker did a really job of having the animals' communication be understandable to humans, without compromising their animal-ness.
One of the strangest instances of "cats act too human" in warrior cats i think is their prey system. In real life cats are uncontrollable hunters who will kill anything thats small and scurries around in sight for no apparent reason while the cats in warriors actually have a system of how to ration out their food and have an entire rule dedicated to not over hunting and over eating. If warrior cats was realistic practically all of the small mammals and bird species around where the warrior cats lived would have gone extinct.
I THINK UR RIGHT ABOUT THE WARRIORS WORKING ALL DAY THING. I WANT THESE CATS TO HAVE RECREATIONAL ACTIVITIES GIVE US MORE CAT HOCKEY AND CAT OLYMPICS. MAKE THESE CATS HAVE LITTLE DND CLUBS OR SMTH IDK
The people are just cats. You'll see flashes of human like behavior, the characters slapping each other over the head or kids playing with each other but largely the changes that make them people over cats are largely aesthetic and physical, Yes they have the abilities of people, cooking, advanced movement, and running on two legs, but on the inside... these people are just cats.
Unrelated but: Where did Moonkitti’s Frecklewish website response video go? I know it wasn’t a "real, scripted, planned" video, but I wanted to rewatch it :(
They legit actually can’t. It’s not the fact they are cats, it’s the fact if they do they will literally be cut off from 60+ countries, and boom. Money goes down the drain.
@@sunndunes counterclaim: that’s an entirely different series. Plus, wings of fire doesn’t even have that many translations/sold in as many different places as Warriors. It’s obvious Warriors is a cash grab in a whole, so adding in an lgbtq character would make them lose what keeps them going: money
@@funkyfelineonthecase I don't think so, the community for warrior cats has grown enough to keep them going no matter what they write. If they did add some LGBTQ+ representation, i imagine their longtime fans and overall audience would still continue buying their books, if not making them more popular with those who've been waiting for something interesting like that to occur within the series. but of course, it is optimistic to think that all of the writers would sign off on that, we simply don't live in a open-minded world like that yet.
@@rotting.prince6504 it’s not that. They will LITERALLY be banned from certain countries, thus people no longer being able to buy their books. It’s not that people will stop buying them, it’s that they will literally be unable to (buy them).
I like to write my warrior cats oc stories in a way that the characters are actually more like real cats. Leaders are often female, toms often leave their group as young adults to start their own (it’s they’re free choice, no one forces them - except maybe some bad parents), females tend to have multiple mates and more kittens (my oc Clans are a famous cat colony living next to a „feral cats research center“ with humans that catch some of them twice a year to spay & neuter them; that way the clans don’t get too overpopulated; also seastar once let herself and her kittens get captured by the humans because they were sick to a point where not even the medicine cat could help them, because she knew humans would take care of them and save her kittens - she managed to escape afterwards) The queens take care for all the kittens, not just their own litter, so that the biological mother can go out hunting etc. Fathers don’t spend too much time with their kittens The cats often sleep when it’s sunhigh and go on patrols when it’s sunrise or sundown
Honestly I think them being more human is a good thing, it make it physically possible to almost completely and totally understand their motivations, thought processes and lives and also prevents undeserving characters to be treated cruelly or unkindly as they would be in a more realistic cat civilization setting.
another note that i dont see people talk about much is the fact that cats cannot see the color red, at all. it just looks like green to them. so warriors with names like redtail should actually be named greentail lmao.
I'm not sure this is entirely true, but it is true that they don't see colors the same way people do. But honestly? That really doesn't matter because warriors isn't trying to be realistic.
@@warriorcatkitty yeah, i just thought it was funny to think about. and yeah cats have two color cones in their eyes, one for violet to blue light, and one for yellow to green light, they can't see red at all, closest thing is violet. woulda been neat for them to somehow incorporate that in lore tho, an animal comic called nature of natures art does that pretty well
Me: _only knows what has been covered by In A Nutshell videos and what I read from the 3 super editions I own from like 7 years ago_ Moonkitti: 13:27 "Rootspring even uses this inherited talking to earth power to try and find a trace of Bristlefrost after she dissolves, and somehow through this absurd superpower, he finds her dying dream instead." Me: What in tarnation is *going on* over there??
Hate to make a suggestion on a post not anyway relevant but uh, you ever gonna talk about kitty sexism? You said you would later on in the ashfur video and I’m genuinely curious about your take on it
This is a lovely coincidence as yesterday I saw a comment saying "*Insert random warrior cat surrounded by drama* is completely justified in killing because feral cats kill!" this video perfectly sums up what I wish to say to people like that.
The Clan cats are acting as like as a human primitive group millions years ago. They haven't discovered fire and writing but technically they are starting a civilization. If twolegs disappeared because of mushroom war or Covid-cough, the clan cats would be next dominant intelligent species on the earth. (Thats my AU idea)
I like to think that the sisters being 'punished' for keeping male kits is entirely coincidental- or even just the result of the whole 'if you wait long enough something bad will eventually happen and then they can blame it on that one guy' thing. I also think StarClan covering the moon is coincidental
When people try to excuse stuff as "they're cats" I always point out the fact they behave more like humans and thus if I find something they did morally wrong they likewise would believe a similar thing..they're not "just cats". People often use the cat excuse for apprentice warrior ships.."cats don't care about ages" if they didn't care about ages they wouldn't care when apprentices are named as apprentices, they may be in the body of a cat but they very much are just like us! A lot of things are horrible mistakes as they're seemingly writing as they go..no thought no brain. A lot doesn't make sense as there isn't really an over-arching plot but there also is, they never really worked on the world building mostly just the main characters and firestars line..so rules can be kinda dumb, things they do can be kinda dumb, ages they don't know as they've never focused on world building wat-so-ever.
i wonder what everyone thinks of the dragons in Wings of Fire. for some reason the dragons feel a lot less human even though they have scrolls, politics, reading/writing, armour, blankets, piercings etc. because we don’t have dragons in our world to compare. but every now and again i’ll see something that is too human in that world. i like it sometimes; it makes the dragons another species capable of sentience, side by side with humans, but then at that point why not write about human characters? (i love the dragons tho)
It's different when it's a made-up species. Dragons can be sentient, they can act exactly like humans, and it's because they don't exist in real life. Of course, the cats in warriors aren't real either, so there's nothing wrong with making them act like humans. But because CATS do exist in real life, people get confused and argue about how the cats in the series are supposed to act.
*WC characters:* in all ways but physical, I am a human person. *WC characters:* _[medicine cat weeping over the vows of eternal solitude and chastity required of them in order to take on the esteemed role of healer and religious leader]_
FINALLY! MORE SPECIFIC SPOILER WARNINGS!!! you'd think a community based in 80 books of kitty shenanagans would be more specific when it comes to spoiler warnings, knowing that the majority of the community isent done with the books, but all they ever say is "sPoIleRs" AND THEY NEVER SPECIFY FOR WHAT! But you, YOU. MOONKITTI. An indevidual that I found out exiseted particularly because of their "i spoil" series, YOU are the pionyeer of the new age... thank you...
Warrior cats is game of thrones for kids. So they made it PC and turned all the people into cats so they can get away with violence and gore and murder and graphic childbirth scenes with lots of blood and wailing cats. I just consider them to be enlightened from religion and thats what makes them more human.
Moonkitti, have you ever read the Named series by Clare Bell? I would love to hear your thoughts on this topic as a comparison/contrast between these two series.
Warriors, for me, has always had the issue of realism. Obviously this isn't realistic, it's a book about murder cats with powers and religion n shit. So they should embrace that. Instead of doing dumb things that make the books worse they really should just go all out with how unrealistic it can be instead of giving themselves limits they're forced to stuff things into. Like, disabled cats should be able to become warriors. Why not? It may be a bit unrealistic but who cares? Cats should be able to be LGBT+. A slightly unrealistic fur or eye color? WHo cares. Hollyleaf should have been able to train that fox I will die on this hill- Ok ok, got a bit wild there lol Jokes aside, I wish they'd stop trying to do everything and instead focus more on what works. Making it less realistic makes it more interesting, and I personally think it would be better if they leaned into that. This is all just my opinion tho, no shade to people who think differently.
I'm currently working on writing and drawing an AU of Warriors where they're all humans, and the only real changes are mostly in setting and character design. The characters themselves I barely even change, (unless I'm bothered by the way they're written) it's moreso about converting the environment around them so instead of only hunting mice and squirrels, they're hunting bigger game and also growing crops within the territorys. Change the claws to dual wielding knifes and other such weapons, space out the timing where kits are born, make Twolegs incomprehensible eldritch beings, and bada-bing-bada-boom, Warrior Cats without the cats. This also give me a chance to make the clans more distinct, with the way they dress, the space where they live and that affecting their resources, and the way I choose to represent their fighting styles. Most of this stuff doesn't really change the core of Warriors, because these cats basically are already anthropomorphized in everything but appearance and minor traits.
People talk about “unrealistic” or “realistic” as an argument in what cats know or not know when at the end of the day, we have cats in the series who act like humans in a cat body and having superpowers with grammar, spelling, and terminology mistakes that happen often. I wonder if the Sisters being terrible religious zealots was their intention, but then again, we already have something like those in the series, if I’m not mistaken. Can I bring up how Sunstar is just StarStar but people are like “cats don’t know that” when I criticized their opinion on Twigbranch being Branchbranch but not bringing up Sunstar? Cats don’t know people are aware of the sun and stars being the same, but cats also don’t know that people have their own language that make “Branchbranch” (It’s a series based on English writing that can differentiate twig and branch)
12:00 Is it just me or is the Sisters somewhat inspired by the Romani? They are nomadic and also are descended from a “single man kittypet family.” Roma also descend from a single group that left India I know they are also inspired by the amazons, but it seems to take inspiration from both.
I wish the authors learned body language before writing the series tho, because they are not using appeasing signs the right way (which is dog's language in real life, go check it out btw it's really interesting!)
One way Warrior cats are super realistic is when there are books that are nothing more than cats bickering, such as the rather or not to kill Bramblestar in TBC. Because cats are hardheaded and idiots half the time. For example: one cat hits another and that cat (who was hit) blames a different cat entirely and a fight ensues. Cats would 100% realistically waste time just bickering and blaming each other for everything.
I always hated how in warriors female cats with kits are called queens when in real life a queen is what you call a female cat who doesnt have kits like wtf
Quick thing about that border thing: When the clans were leaving the forest, they mentioned " Brackenfur rubbing his head on the ferns for the last time *as if There was a territory border to mark* " Implying that this was how they marked their borders. Im a little unsure though as in Crookedstars promise they sprayed instead. So yeah thats weird.
Actually I do remember ONE scene where Rootpaw went out on patrol reluctantly as he was about to leave to find Bristlefrost to talk to her or something like that? (it was either book 1 or 2 of TBC) and he marked a stick or something during the patrol by rubbing his cheek on it, but otherwise I can't think of a single other time where they weren't vague. They're proooobbbably usually urinating I assume. (NOT SCOLDING OR ANYTHING BTW- in fact it doesn't change ur point at all, JUST- noting ig?? since it was relevant, I don't think this one super rare instance is something someone would remember) EDIT: read Into The Wild a couple months ago now and that reminded me since I was re-binging ur vids, it goes into uncomfortable detail about Tigerclaw "raising his tail and spraying" to mark their territory, SO! Arc 1 cats definitely went there, BUT I think they kinda started drifting more into the "let's either have them rub their face on shit, and/or not explain anymore than that" territory later on. A LOT of arc 1 details are moot atp
To some extent I'm okay with the fact that they aren't strictly following cat behavior and biology. But, this series could about almost any type of animal and it wouldn't change much, and that makes me a little sad.
8:17 is that a reference to SSS warriors Whitestorm? I LOVED HIM SO MUCH also great vid you brought up a lot of good points, and everything makes sense even to me and my 2 braincells!
What about Dovewing and Tigerstar? Does everyone forget he pretty much groomed her? They were seeing eachother when she was a fresh apprentice and he was a warrior.
I honestly haven't read their books, but they give me strong sus vibes. I really hope this doesn't spark another drama were everyone cancels everyone over a bad ship in a book.
The same could be said for Bramblestar and Squrrielflight. He was already a full fledged warrior when she was apprenticed. I think when it comes to grooming, the whole “Spottedleaf Situation” is the perfect example, a fully grown adult cat manipulating a child and wanting to make her his mate the moment he could “legally” do it. Tigerheart/star and Dovewing were courting before he became leader and I thiiiink their age gap is significantly less than what other more creepy age gaps have been, I think he had only been a warrior for a short time at that point. Edit: Honestly thinking about it, Bramblestar and Squirrelflight might be worse than Dovewing and Tiger. Bramblestar had been a warrior for much longer, and is much older than Squirrelflight.
@@mageofdoomsie1598 She was still a child. He was an adult when he started hitting on her and asking her to meet him. He also proceeds to take advantage of her trust and use her. He’s definitely a predator, it’s almost as bad as Thistleclaw and Spottedleaf. I think they’re worse than Bramble Squirrel in that case because Bramble and Squirrel never acted like mates when she was an apprentice. Dove and Tiger did though, he confessed his love for her when she was an apprentice, he met her in secret when she was an apprentice, they were kind of dating when she was an apprentice.
Guys I never said "warrior cats is bad because it's unrealistic" I like that warrior cats is unrealistic!
If Warriors was realistic, 90% of it would never have happened.
@@graphitetailgrace3870 Everyone would be 10000% more inbred and no one would live together
Ay everyone Isnt talking about How Moonkitti Cat Was Meowing in the end?
@@orange6105 i think she got eaten by her cat in the end- /j
5th reply
the fact that firestar never got the zoomies is a tragedy. let him zoom
I like to imagine he has zoomies in Starclan
Lmao yeah
LET HIM ZOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM
i read firestar as tigerstar and i was about to cry at the idea 😭
@@joemamacaprisun that would be hilarious
The cats know fractions. Mistystar says "at least two thirds of the Clan" in the new book. They know fractions. The cats are small, furry people who know fractions.
They do so well in math class!
@@fairycat23 How is feral cat Mistystar better at Maths than human 8-years-olds
@@pigeonsyndrome2249 to be fair, sometimes the kits start talking and walking like a week after being born
@@fairycat23 They are so smarter then me
Wasn't it 3/4?
If they actually depicted cat gender stuff relatively realistic then they'd have to actually write decent female characters.
BAHAHAHAH you went there
LMFAOOO
I don’t think they had gender in mind when they wrote it, but rather cats.
Gender dimorphism is very subtle and not really that big, especially in humans. And these are just humans as cats.
It doesn’t really effect the story, and I’m pretty sure they just rolled dice for genders.
And besides, gender isn’t anything you should judge or predict anyone or anything off of.
I don’t really know though, so feel free to point out anything wrong or correct me.
I think it would make it far worse. Cats are very sexually dimorphic, far more so than humans are. As presented in the series, female warriors are just as capable of males. But if you wanted to make it realistic, then any fight a female cat has with a male should end with the male casually swatting her aside with contemptuous ease and always getting his way unless ganged up on.
@@klikssiikubra314 this is just simply not true, female cats are just as aggressive and capable of defending themselves as much as male cats are. i’ve grown up with many cats in my life, stray or house kept, and never has there been a time where a male cat “swatted a female to the side with contemptuous ease.” i don’t even know where you could’ve heard that, but it’s completely wrong.. i’m not even mad or anything i’m just confused.
I want at least one warrior cat character to get the zoomies. Some warrior on a border patrol and all of a sudden they sprint back and forth, leaping off boulders and pouncing on leaves and scrabbling up trees. I want to see that happen right now.
Unfortunately, they probably won't unless they're a kitten, a grounded apprentice, or a really restless elder. Irl cats get the zoomies from being inactive for long periods of time, which isn't helped by living in a house where your owner doesn't want you to knock over stuff while you're darting around. A warrior and a typical apprentice have constant exercise with hunting and border patrols, but kittens (especially older ones) would get the zoomies and bother their clanmates. The most you'd get is a newly-minted apprentice, excited to finally be out of camp, running around with their poor mentor trailing behind them.
@@inkylynx2777 This is actually incorrect. The zoomies happen not just from inactive periods, but when a cat is placed in an environment they feel safe and happy enough to let loose like a kitten would. I've helped care for ferals/strays who could come and go as they wished in a protected area, and I'd seen zoomies happen. It's a play behavior, much like wrestling or play pouncing on each other, though as they age they'll start doing it less and less.
@@Eskiwen Ah, alright, thanks for clarification. I thought it was more or less the same thing as rabbits experienced, but I guess different animals do the same thing for different reasons.
@@inkylynx2777 hey, no problem! you are correct in that it's a buildup of energy - think of it more like how small kids will sometimes just start running for what seems like very little reason. It's also very difficult to break cats out of zoomies, even when you offer an alternative play - I consider it cat 'stimming' in a sense hahah.
uwu writes a fanfic about a warrior getting zoomies
Warriors needs a term like boyfriend or girlfriend cause in the latest book Sunbeam refers to Blazefire, a cat she was courting at the time, as her "special friend." Twigbranch and Finleap could have also benefited from a word like that.
I think them saying "special friend" is really funny
''special friend'' makes it sound like a euphemism for something dirty.
special friend is wonderful. Sounds like an outdated thing akin to “confirmed bachelor”
@@legrandliseurtri7495 I thought the same thing
special friend like something a homophobe would say about a gay persons partner lol like 'thats emily and her....special friend amy'
Imagine what a human would think if they found a Clan camp with expertly woven structures, a pile of prey, and cats treating cat wounds with herbs.
Lmao
Brb writing this fanfic
Once I had an idea for a fanfic where some people doing a documentary on feral cats discovered the clans, and were flummoxed.
@@TheDragonCat99 you done by now?
@@BlazingFieryMountain In my head? Yes. In any way I’m happy to share? No lol
There's actually a bit in Crookedstar's promise where the cats marking territory was described as spraying. I remember cause it just felt really weird to read lmao
Oh no.
Yeah, I feel like it was described that way once or twice before :0
There is also a mention of spraying in Into the Wild
@@hiitsfley there’s even mention of how Rusty hadn’t been to the cutter yet lol
I think one time in The Broken Code they rub their jaw along some leaves to mark it? Why- why is it inconsistent-
I think one weird, recent change, is the cats' ability to cry.
Like, obviously the cats *can* cry. In Tallstar's revenge, soil lands in Tallkit's eyes and his eyes water up in response. But I'm specifically talking about cats crying in sadness. You know, a very human and not cat-like behaviour. In older books, they don't cry to communicate sadness. But in more recent ones? Yeah, totally. They totally do.
Like in Leopardstar's super edition. When Whitepaw's mother dies, he climbs into Leopardfur's nest, and they cat-hug as he sobs into her fur. Or when Rootspring loses Brostlefrost. I'm pretty sure, at some point, his eyes begin to water and his vision blurs. These are sweet scenes, but at the time I was kind of like, "this isn't normal, right? Cats don't cry from sadness, right??"
They also shrug, which is equally weird
cats crying from sadness has been so widely shown and accepted in the warriors fandom that i didnt even stop to think that crying wasnt normal for cats-
@@milkhoney45 cats do cry, but not like people do
@@funkytime69 Yeah, their crying is more like screaming/meowing. I'm pretty sure they mentioned cats yowling while grieving in the earlier books.
It’s been so normalized because of the maps I’ve seen I’ve never thought of it lol I actually hope they’ll commit to it
I like the idea that Warrior Cats are literally an entire subsecies of cat. Born with eyes open, their eye color for life, patterns imiediaty shown, growing at different rates, increased intelligence, different schedules, etc etc etc
taking what @Lui said and using it as evidence, the cats can do math. i dont doubt theyll make music and other art forms canon. they could invent their own written language for all we know! also, i think an intersex cat being born could help introduce the concept of being lgbtq+ in the books if not purely from another cat culture.
@@madgoat2125 Intersex cats exist irl too so not really sure why they haven't added one yet.
Oooh I do like this idea!
i do like this, and it's kind of how i've been viewing them. i think it's a decent explanation and opens up for a lot of new ideas
A bit like the rats from the secret of nimh.
Guardians of gahoole Is a great example of actually having animal characters act like animals even though they're more humanlike and use weapons.
I read that book! Well, one or two. My main experience with that series was the spinoff, Wolves of the Beyond. Another master class in world building with animal characters!
Or Wolves of the Beyond
LOVE THAT BOOK SERIES!
Or Duncton Wood, which is about British moles. The author actually studied moles for 20+ years, so the characters are very accurate to real mole behavior.
I highly recommend reading it. It's long and wordy, but it is such a great story, you wouldn't regret it!
Y e s
There's an AU rewrite of warriors on AO3 by FatalBlow and there the Clans have actual differences, they call each other Rivers, Thunders, Shadows, Winds. They stand on their two legs, have knives, and how certain events happen are changed and it's really well written. Cats like Cinderpelt legit have amputated limbs rather than just dead leg slowing them down. The writer there actually kinda makes it a point to say in one line of dialogue "she'll still have 3 good ones." as if to point out "Yes cats can move around fine with one limb missing." And deaf cats function in that world as well. They sign. It's hard to imagine but the writer takes the "the cats are people" to a good level there. They do swear a LOT it's almost funny how much they curse. I wish the rest of the series had been finished cause they only have Into the Wild, Fire and Ice, and Rising Storm finished. I like the world they built. I wish the actual books had that-where you could tell the clans are DIFFERENT. That's what a lot of fanfic gets right.
👀 ill have to check that out
Drop the link
I need the link for that
This sounds good, but you lost me where they stand on their hind legs and wield knives
So I have never heard of this but I will take this as a recommendation!
it would have been amazing if they made the Sisters a group that paid attention to the growth of the young, and maybe the whole ghost and earth thing wasn't innate but showed up in the males at certain ages, so when a mother noticed her son talking to a ghost or using the ability they have, she'd be forced to remove them from the group as it was their time.
It'd be interesting if Squirrelflight started noticing tomkits going missing here and there and the mother's being a bit solemn but smiling with a 'it was their time'. LIKE FERAL CATS HAVING EMOTION?
THIS
Another instance of cat act too human syndrome in warriors and one that really irked me was in one of greystripes mangas after escaping the human family that he was living with he started to chase around a moth playfully then immediately stopped with the most dreaded expression saying that only kits play with moths and it was very strange cuz one of THE main characteristics to defining if a species is hyper intelligent or not is their playfulness. Its so weird seeing none of the cats in warriors engage in any sort of playfulness with each other other than when they are kits. Not even the teenager apprentice cats engage in normal playful teenager stuff like hanging out or being rebellious. Instead warriors dictates how smart they are by how much they work. Every cat in warriors has a job, immediately after leaving their moms kittens enroll in training to work, teenagers learn how to work, warriors whole lives are dedicated to working unless their literally pregnant, really old, or have some sort of disability (and in that case any disabled cat is made to feel useless for having a disability because all the other cats work and they do not, which is a very human problem) basically many of the authors of warriors dont see playfulness, curiosity, or even a large family like bond with your own clan (even the clans work more like one big working system and not the big interwoven family it likes to make itself seem) as hyper intelligence they only see working as a trait that defines a species as intelligent and ngl thats kinda really fucking worrying
Kitty Kapitalism bad B(
YEAH GIVE US MORE CAT HOCKEY SCENES AND SNOWBALL FIGHTS
Literally this comment. I agree with literally everything.
just read that manga and sometimes, yes, i am dissapointed that cats dont play.
Finally someone brought up (if only briefly) how all warriors do is just work and patrol and never relax. It's been bothering me hardcore since I reread Guardians of Ga'hoole and enjoyed all their little harvest celebrations and holidays, time spent hanging out in the library and visits to Trader Mags' shop, all things that Warriors just doesn't have equivalents to. (GOG also is way more successful at having its characters act like animals despite the more unrealistic setting, and owl biology is frequently used for plot points)
I feel like more frequently having leisure activities or celebrations like that one Olympics they held in PO3, or even just celebrating the passing of seasons could do a lot to make the clans feel less... depressing? Soul crushing??
Also I agree I think the Sisters are way more interesting than the Clans from a lore perspective. I'm all for flawed cat societies btw, as long as the authors are willing to dismantle them within the narrative *intentionally.* The Erins have been super resistant to truly changing the status quo though, but maybe ASC will turn things around with the code changes? Idk my hopes aren't super high
"I wish I could count higher than four."
Somewhere, Frith is laughing.
AYYY
HA
Watership down fan?
@@LaifaCanyonLurker Yes
-Chuckles in Fiver-
I’ve got some fanfics, but the only real thing I’ve improved upon was keeping around deaf and disabled cats as warriors. Snowfoot(deaf cat) and Hopspring(cat born with shriveled front legs) have both been cared for by their clan and are valued senior warriors by the time my fic starts. Snowfoot worked out a system of mock sign language via tail movement, ear flicks, specific expressions, and stomps to speak to his Clan, and even kits in the clan are raised being taught it. While he does need another warrior by his side for most battles, it’s been noted that another Clans strategies of confusing their enemies with echoes is notably useless against him which makes him an asset.
Hopspring was briefly considered to be deputy before he passed on it himself. It is awkward for him to walk around, and he’s admittedly not the greatest hunter, but he has a sharp mind and a kind heart, making him excellent for forming strategies and mentoring other cats. He’s also been noted to be strangely graceful in battle, as he’s good at using his weight to his advantage.
Hell, we even have a kittypet who was declawed in his front paws before joining the clan. He’s a surprisingly effective hunter, and he’s been able to utilize his paws as grappling limbs and sharp blows. He once accidentally knocked out an apprentice by striking the side of her head with his strength.
Cool! What is the name of the fanfic? Is it in ao3?
God warriors needs declawed cats to show how genuinely bad it is
@@flamepelt3092 ironically, the declawed warrior(Badgerheart) is based off of my cat(I was not consulted in declawing him as I was seven), who’s actually more capable than the barn cats I know. He’s scaled every house in the neighborhood, he regularly catches birds and has left us several squirrels as gifts. I swear I’ve been bruised by him before from getting hit by a swipe, and he knows how to grapple hold with his paws. He’s one of the most capable cats I know.
However, you are correct. It’d be a great way to explain to younger audiences why it’s so cruel.
@@eclipsevisionary it’s not, unfortunately. It’s more of a thing for myself to work on when I hit a writing block in another project.
Please upload this somewhere if you are comfortable with it and drop a link, I love seeing disabled cats :)
I remember from one of the SkyClan mangas, when Leafstar when in the Twoleg nest, she had to jump off the furniture to reach the door knob, despite being a cat who can naturally jump over 6 feet high AND a SkyClan cat who are known to be able to jump extra high
unrelated but something i'd love for you to talk about is how in the original series shadowclan actually had lots of rogues/loners join their clan, and much more than thunderclan did. i feel like later on they tried pushing that shadowclan doesn't like non clan born cats, but lots of the respected warriors were not clan born
People seems to always forget that Couldtail is YOUNGER than Ashpaw and Fernpaw. They didn’t get apprenticed at six moons.
Exactly, thank you!!!
Jesus Christ, ages in Warriors are already messed up, I personally don't care that much about DustFern but seeing them being put on the same level as ThistleSpotted... Yikes, it's not that at all!
this also happens in crookedstar’s promise where its mentioned how they wait for (iirc) leopardkit to be 6 moons old so that all the kits are apprenticed together even though the others (iirc blackkit loudkit sedgekit and frogkit) are about a moon or two moons older
But ye. It rly bugs me when ppl are like "they can't be lgbt! They're cats!" You see it a lot with trans hcs especially. It's such a silly argument. Like they have organized religion n shit, i think they can question their gender
Many animals are actually in real life bi or something. (Not trans, obviously)
There are gay penguins.
Seriously lmao! "Oh, I can accept that these cats are given 9 lives by their undead ancestors, but I draw the line at this one character being trans!" You mean we can pick and choose which concepts are too far-fetched in this FANTASY story, and cat-possession is somehow acceptable, but being LGBT isn't? Hello??
Yeah, it’s especially weird when cats can be gay irl. And when it makes more logical sense for them to be, for example, trans. Like, male tortoiseshell/calico cats are incredibly rare naturally, while tortie/calico female cats are quite common. So logically, if we have multiple male tortie/calico cats then the odds are one of them could be trans.
(This got me thinking of how cool it would be to have an arc surrounding the Sisters with a trans tom who has the special magic guy powers and the drama with the sisters not wanting to kick him out with the other boys but him needing to so they avoid the wrath of their ancestors and now I just really want that so so bad)
@@dusk823 trans animals exist in the form of some species, like fish. My friend had all female catfish, until one of them morphed into a male to make sure the population wouldn't die out.
I think it's fine that they dip more to the human side since it allows the authors to come up with more ideas. It also allows the readers, which are usually young children to understand more. It wouldn't be as fun if we read about them sleeping for most of the day or having a border fight every other day
Sure, but other authors manage to capture an animal perspective without spoiling the story
I agree but also disagree; having them be more authentically cat-like would be a nice educational experience for readers of the books, and there are still plenty of ways to cause conflict in that setting - arguably more. Without healing systems cats would die of disease, without armies they’d be picked off by predators, stuff like that
@@aposterous4126 true, although that's way less relatable and requires a lot less character-driven plots
some people prefer them but I find them boring to read
not saying WC is well written but it'd be less accessible if it were more real animal-like
but!! arguably better, since the characters are mostly bland anyway
BUT ZOOMIES
For these reasons i love contrasting warriors with books like Tailchaser's song! Tailchaser's song addresses how cats largely communicate with eachother via body language, but also has a literal monarchy. Both are goofy and unrealistic and its fun to see how they contrast! Im a sucker for wildly unrealistic animal books
It's easy to write a book about animals by stretching the rules and making them basically just like people, and it's easy for an audience to relate to for sure. (And I do love Warriors!) But man, what I think is super cool is authors who are able to go beyond that. Silverwing is a book (technically series) about bats that uses their migratory habits and echolocation to develop the culture of the bats and mythology of their world (it also factors in their color blindness)! Or Fire Bringer, a book about deer that works deer social structure and instinct to fight for mates right into the story in a way that feels natural despite being a book about talking animals with a prophecy to fulfill.
Both of these examples obviously aren't realistic either and take some creative liberties -- in Silverwing, vampire bats are carnivores with a 6 foot wingspan and in Fire Bringer, the antagonist forms a military and the protagonist more or less has a superpower -- but they take an animal's real behaviors and physiology and work it into the plot and I think that's really neat.
I love those book series!
And oo, it's been a while since I read Silverwing. Perhaps I should reread the series again. Also, do you have any other animal protagonist series suggestions similar to those books? So far I've read a few, like Firebringer (the one with unicorns), Song of the Summer King, The Named (Ratha's Creature), The Sight (by the same author of Fire Bringer (the deer)), and etc, but I'm interested in more alike series.
breaking news: the warrior cats are no longer cats they are just furries /j
hope that isn’t offensive because I’m also probably a furry :p
It’s not I’m a furry
They always were XD
My ‘sona being inspired by my old warriors OC 😂😭
@@-.Echo.- good ‘w’
have a great day/night m8
@@StarLupus you too :D
Imo I liked warrior cats in arc one, in terms of how cat they were
Same, that’s why I stopped reading after season 6.
They genuinely did, they was even a moonhigh patrol and more of the story took place at night.
Yeah, I distinctly remember fireheart also napping during the day pretty often!
Not sure if anyones mentioned this yet but in the last book of the broken code(forgor what its called), when needletail is trying to push through the border between starclan and the dark forest, it says at one point that she can fit her head through but not her whole body. But, in real life, cats supposedly have no collar bones and thus if they can fit their head through something, they should be able to fit everything else too. This is sometimes false, like when a cat is overweight, but when old cats go to starclan their body is changed to make it more comfortable than a shaggy old ass cat, so presumably underweight and more importantly to the argument overweight cats in starclan would be a healthy weight, no? So theres no reason needletail shouldnt have been able to get through at that point
It is a small nitpick in a series where cats literally can be colored blue, pink, or yellow, but ya know, something i noticed
(Also i might be wrong about this and the ‘cats having no collarbones so they can fit through anything their head can’ thing might be untrue i didnt look it up)
Maybe she became round in starclan for fun. I'm sure you can be round in starclan and also healthy
@@Moonkitti fair enough, if I could become round and be healthy I would too
I think in a documentary about cats it said that cats have a collarbone, but not attached to the cat’s skeleton, allowing the cat to slip through tight spaces.
@@LaifaCanyonLurker ah that does seem more accurate
@@razzbarree9020 a round cat? you be doing spin dashes?
I feel like it would've been more interesting for the sisters, If that toms leaving was portrayed more like a coming of age Rite rather than a requirement. Like toms will only be considered proper adults once they leave on their pilgrimage. Maybe the toms who have chosen to stay can train and prepare the next generation of kits for this journey.
Maybe mollys could then have their own coming of age Rite to parallel what the toms do, I am not sure what this Rite would entail though.
This was just a thought experiment though, heavily influenced by the channel worldbuilding notes. This ain't realistic or all the much better either, but I love having more explanation than just a non described tradition.
Why...
why are you calling them mollys?
a molly cat is a female cat that has been neutered.
@Kiaraplaysadoptme
Oh, I heard female cats called Mollys in Tennelleflowers clouded moon videos, so I assumed it just meant a female cat overall.
@@rockclanhawkstar1454 Nope lol, lots of people don't know what molly actually means, it drives me crazy lol.
@@JustLilyTbh Gotcha!
well, it does seem that there is a variety of results one gets if they try looking it up. ^^'
@@JustLilyTbh i mean, "tom" means an unneutered male cat, but that's not how it's used in the books or fandoms. nitpicking semantics around how people refer to warrior cats genders isn't productive. it's warrior cats, 'molly' is a lot easier to say than 'she-cat' and matches 'tom' better. this whole video's about how we're not talking irl cat biology, like...
one other but very minor detail is that the male cats in art are never depicted with tomcat jowls. in real unneutered male cats, the flesh and fur around their cheeks will grow due to testorone. it's very prominent in feral cats, and it's used to help cushion attacks from other males while searching for female colonies. they're never shown on any male cat in the series, or described in the books as far as i know. pretty strange, but again, the cats are anthropormized for the most part, even if not that much physically
I only know this because I'm rereading Crookedstar's Promise rn but there's a part of that book where they do explicitly refer to marking the border as "spraying," which is the only time I can remember them specifying in terms other than "renewing the border markers" or whatever, so maybe they didn't want to add many direct references to peeing. It does seem like they would need a LOT of fluids for each patrol though lol. Would have been funny if there had been a casual note about the border marks being faint in The Fourth Apprentice because of the drought.
I think it just depends on specific instances. The old books they acted much more like actual cats(with still a lot of human traits thrown in). Ex. It being flat out stated male cats don't raise the kits and mates not really being "married". They go back an forth a lot on how human or how cat-like these cats are, so it makes it difficult. I will say there are things I try to go "well they're just cats" about bc other wise it is a bit uncomfortable, (a freshly made warrior dating an apprentice). Yeah kits are kids, apprentices are teens, and warriors are an enigma, it's hard to pin down EXACTLY how old any of that is, since they don't just evolve like pokemon overnight, so an apprentice could be 15 and a new warrior could be like, 18, or any age in between or older/younger. who knows? But apprentice/warrior relationships happens often enough I'd like to say, for my own sanity, they're "just cats so it doesn't matter". (Plus I forget how old anyone is any way and half the time forget a character exists until they're mentioned again so I can't keep track enough to really notice or care how old anyone is. If they become mates I go, "oh, ok that's a thing" and move on)
(DISCLAIMER: Thistle/spotted is still gross, even as animals an adult cat preying on a kitten is gross, Thistle is a gross old man, them being cats doesn't make it ok!)
Stuff like male cats not raising kits is thrown out as early as book 3, so I don't think it counts for anything
You just read my mind. I don't understand why can't we look at them as a mixture of cat and human traits, it's obvious that they have them.
Also, yes, no matter how we think about it, ThistlexSpotted is and will forever be an abomination.
@@bluesheep7 Exactly!!
I keep waiting for one of the clans to randomly save a puppies life and raise it as their secret weapon to attack the other clans 🤣
It could just be a representation of how artificial their lives are. Natural human sleeping patterns and culture are much different than our current ones.
Yeah, I recently just learned that human sleeping patterns are naturally biphasic. We sleep for four hours, wake up and do whatever for an hour or more, and go back to sleep for four more hours. Then we wake up and have our merry day.
Thank lightbulbs for why we don't sleep like this anymore.
@@inkylynx2777 My sleeping pattern is mad weird then..sometimes I do sleep like this other times I clock out at 8am then sleep till roughly 4pm in time for dinner, when I do fall asleep at night I tend to sleep all the way till after noon anyways (unless I keep waking up every 4-3 hours); I'm more of a nocturnal person I guess, I sleep better with a bit of light.
9:35 "No, not even Ferncloud. There is no evidence for that. Stop saying Ferncloud had kittens as a child. Please." Wow, people say that? Because not only there is no evidence for that, there IS evidence for her having kittens only after becoming an adult. In A Shadow in RiverClan, when Feathertail runs into Ferncloud, she mentions that she and Dustpelt were now (as in, then) mates.
@@emptybanana2126 well it’s not only you, many people have made this mistake. Ferncloud has always had a cloud of controversy in her relationship(s) so people misremembering that she was pregnant as a teen lined up with the assumptions about her. Thankfully, Ferncloud was an adult when she got pregnant lol.
I would love to have warriors keep certain cat habits like when they wake up and go to bed while continuing to make them form complex thoughts an actual cat would not be able to have.
When they'd say ”he sprayed his scent” I always had a pretty good idea of what they were trying to say. Then my younger sister showed it to me and said ”what does this mean?” I then had to think of a good way to tell her what they are doing
They're just peeing...... *right?*
@@blackprimrose7541 yeah, but explain that to a little kid who doesn't understand that cats mark their territory in that way and views them as basically as humans changed into cats.
@@blackprimrose7541 Actually, no! They have specific scent glands they use to spray their scent! It's very similar to peeing, but it's a specific gland near the anus!
@@tinydancerpresents1504 I honestly would of explained it like spray painting ngl, "they make a liquid out of berries and spray it on the trees in the symbol of their clan to show that's their territory" haha; it's a little dumb but a kid would 100% believe it
5:01 i remember them describing it as "spraying" a few times (i think tigerstar in specific is describing doing this) and im fairly certain theyve mentioned scratching marks onto trees as well. they usually just say "marking the border" but they do say that the cats are spraying or clawing a few times that i can remember
They literally could use any other animal (dogs, squirrels, bunnies, mice, birds, even humans) in the place of cats in Warriors and it wouldn't make a difference in the story.
They already did, heard of Survivors? Characters are dogs and it's similar to Warrior Cats from what I could tell. Seekers is another one, about bears, though it's a little different. Bunnies would be a cute idea
@@falcon_arkaig Watership Down is a close contender for that-
EXACTLY
Murder Mice!!
I don't know about humans, would be weird if mothers constantly had twins, triplets, or even quadruplets. (And the fact that cats in this series actually do age like actual cats)
Has anyone noticed how Windclan cats have had names like doe or stag but no cat has ever mentioned seeing a deer?
Actually, I think a deer was mentioned once, but ONLY once, so yeah, I do find it a bit strange xD
There is Deerpaw, Doestar’s sister, but other than that, deer are barely mentioned anywhere else.
@@ShadowStray_ Yeah that's true. It's not something that bothers me. It's just weird, ya know?
In a new arc of warrior cats the cats should accidently invent capitalism
Points at a cat: That's a human person!
You're very right though lol the "they're just cats" argument only works if they ACT like cats. Which they do not.
this is like that one video "on all levels except physical, i am a wolf. awoo!" except its a cat saying "on all levels except physical, i am a human. politics!"
I like to think of Warriors as akin to a series I read called Lost Dogs. To spare the trouble of looking it up, the overarching plot focuses on the spread of a disease that gives animals the intelligence of humans while at the same time being incredibly deadly to humans themselves, so basically, a bunch of humanoid pets running around without humans. I like to imagine the clans still as cats but with this added intelligence and humanity while rouges, kittypets, and the like are often the "unintelligent" or "normal" cats. The fact that they can have such complexity to their structure is unnatural to begin with. Additionally, there have been many a time cats outside the clan have shown disinterest, unease, or even disgust toward the concept of clan life. I can almost see this difference in characterization as a reason to classify them separately. Perhaps the best canonical rationale for this would be the existence of and connection to Starclan. Though I can't claim to know much as my memory doesn't serve me greatly here, I would propose that Bloodclan might have been one of the better examples of a more realistic feline narrative.
Bloodclan definitely is NOT any more realistic than the clans- they literally stick dog teeth into they're collars lmao. Also, loners and rogues are exactly the same as clan cats... They just don't live in a clan. The reason they may think differently or find clan life disgusting is because they were either raised and taught that way, or have had bad experiences with the clans. Their level of intelligence is no different...
Also, I don't mean to sound rude lol- I'm just confused on what you mean.
@@warriorcatkitty Yeah, that's totally fair. It has been a while for me any ways, like I said. For the Bloodclan thing, I was more referring to the interactions between cats than the bones thing, which is definitely pretty weird. With rouges and stuff, they do seem to be less keen on learning and understanding their environment, instead tending to fret over pure survival, which I suppose may be seen as "less intelligent," although behavior can be a terrible indicator. That was more in reference to the difference between clans and outsiders being more "feral" or "realistic." To be fair, they're already talking cats so it's a bit difficult to make them realistic when it was never the prime intention to begin with.
Warrior Cats are just furries confirmed.
Facts-
frfr
Except they walk on all fours sooo...
Well there more cats being human then humans being animals, so flesh-ys
Tbh, I hid in the warriors fandom for years trying to pretend I wasn't a furry. I'd be like: "They're on four legs, so it doesn't count!" XD I wasn't fooling anyone.
*THIS* is what I've always talked about, and it frustrates me when people _still_ try to tell me that they're 'just cats'!
Mainly when people try to justify unacceptable things some characters have done [*cough**cough*, Thistleclaw- *cough*]
By pointing the blame to them being cats, they are not cats. They're people in cat skins, they don't even show many cat-like behaviors-
Things in real life cats do that is acceptable for them, but not for us is because they're unable to think like we do, and some things are just within their nature, Warrior Cats ignore that
These cats can build religion and society, irl cats can't recognize their own reflection, there is a difference.
Yes ! Thankyou, Thistleclaws behavior is not acceptable smh
@@lemonpie_vanilla I mean from a book standpoint its kinda neat
Mhm! IRL cat's don't have souls, they have no religion (besides maybe thinking og themself as a god lol)
Someone need stop that guys who said "but splootled paw was just a cat"
Same thing in the Wings of Fire fandom with Glory and Deathbringer
It also seems that when they start a new series they introduce a lot of cats that we’ve never heard of before in every clan except Thunderclan. No one knows where they come from. It’s fairly easy to keep track of who is related to who in Thunderclan even though as of late they are SO MANY of them
Oh I didn't think of that aspect of warriors at all, even though most of my experience is comparing them to real human social structures. It does put warriors in this weird spot though, where they're not quite human not quite cats, so anyone wanting to look up references for why they do things is out of luck. To take the apprentice age stuff as an example: IRL, cats can be adults at X months old, while for humans it's Y age, which may not sync up with the human-cat calculator age. So...where do warriors lie? They never really address "this cat is an adult so they should be made a warrior", it's "they're not an adult UNTIL they become a warrior regardless of age" which is... okay for the basic purpose of understanding things but when they're assigning intense plot points to cats its a little weird that readers dont have a mental reference for how old a cat is or what guides the society goes by. It CAN work but is something that the authors need to spend more time in actually thinking about and putting into the story with a specific language for these cats
I agree but like they should have done so 50 books ago
Whenever you feel comfortable making that video about sexism in Warrior cats, I promise I will personally contribute, like, ten views, just like that Briarlight video
Cats have scent glands on a few different spots on their body. This means that when they rub up against something they leave behind a smell, and it's their smell. Cat's we keep in our home do this. They typically rub up against us, marking us as their own. They also have scent glands in their paws, meaning that when they scratch things, they leave their scent. I like to assume that this means in "Warrior Cats" the cats just nuzzle or scratch a tree or bush.
Tangentially related but this is why it bugs me sometimes when people will take criticism of wc being "unrealistic" to extremes.. like Yes of *course* the brand new apprentice is described as being Tiny compared to their mentor, that is a kindergartener. yes it's unrealistic for a 6 month old cat to be Significantly smaller than their mentor, but this is the Least of wc's writing problems to the point where that's not even a real problem, it's just the authors trying to make you feel emotions about babies. but i've seen some people blow that minor criticism so far out of proportion to the point where i've actually seen someone compliment a pmv Solely on the basis that the apprentices were drawn realistic sizes and guys it's not that big of a deal why does the collar color matter i'm so tired people please /lh
anyways tho good video very excellent points 10/10 made me say "THANK YOU!" out loud several times.
It's not the unrealism that bothers me it's the inconsistency. If the cats seemed to grow at about the same rate as cat would in real life I would expect that the sizes would follow the same rule too, but no. if the cats didn't mature as real cats I probably wouldn't care bout the inaccurate size but the inconsistency just ruined it a lil bit for me. I find it silly for a cat of 6 moons to be described as tiny like they are the half of the size of there mentor. If this was the only flaw in warriors this wouldn't be much of a problem but it's the fact that it is in a sea of small flaws and inconsistency that makes the enjoyment of warriors a bit hard sometimes.
I do agree that some people take these nick pics problems too far especially when it comes to Dovewing eyes and Scourge color. Although I don't like that it's an inconsistency, the absolute arguments wars bc of these small flaws are ridiculous when we can spend that energy on the bigger flaws.
*so ew I have to bring thistle into this but like….”oh there just cats” I’m sorry? Does that justify Thistleclaw’s weird disgusting behavior in the um. spottedleaf book you know. “Oh cats just do that!!!” so you think I’m still comfortable with the stuff he did? No sorry*
We need cat restaurants
There are cat cafes :o
YES
YESSS
YASSSSS
Ye
It’s kinda weird to me when people complain about this because, from my experience, animals actually acting like animals in media is pretty rare. The only things I can think of where they do act like their animals is watership down and the movie spirit. And even then I can’t be sure. Idk I just don’t like when people complain about this cause to me the point of fiction is that it doesn’t have to be realistic.
Check out Call of the Wild and White Fang, both by Jack London. Realistically-written dog and wolfdog characters that aren't anthropomorphized.
There's also The Last Eagle by Daniel Mannix (about bald eagles) and The Incredible Journey by Sheila Burnford (the book not the film). Nonhuman, non-speaking protagonists.
A book that sits somewhere in the middle between "mostly-realistic talking animals" (like Watership Down) and "100% realistic non-speaking animals" (like White Fang) is Pax by Sara Pennypacker. It's about foxes, and they communicate in something that's a *little* like dialogue but not *exactly* (and it's still implied that they're communicating like normal animals, it's just "translated"). Pennypacker did a really job of having the animals' communication be understandable to humans, without compromising their animal-ness.
Fun fact: if you are reading this RIGHT NOW, you haven't finished this video.
Very true, unless they skip stuff
That's true UwU
True
True
True
Warrior cats be like:On all levels except physical, I am a human.
The cats have intelligent brain molecules upon those we understand
One of the strangest instances of "cats act too human" in warrior cats i think is their prey system. In real life cats are uncontrollable hunters who will kill anything thats small and scurries around in sight for no apparent reason while the cats in warriors actually have a system of how to ration out their food and have an entire rule dedicated to not over hunting and over eating. If warrior cats was realistic practically all of the small mammals and bird species around where the warrior cats lived would have gone extinct.
I can see why they wouldn’t write that tho :0
I THINK UR RIGHT ABOUT THE WARRIORS WORKING ALL DAY THING. I WANT THESE CATS TO HAVE RECREATIONAL ACTIVITIES GIVE US MORE CAT HOCKEY AND CAT OLYMPICS. MAKE THESE CATS HAVE LITTLE DND CLUBS OR SMTH IDK
The people are just cats.
You'll see flashes of human like behavior, the characters slapping each other over the head or kids playing with each other but largely the changes that make them people over cats are largely aesthetic and physical, Yes they have the abilities of people, cooking, advanced movement, and running on two legs, but on the inside... these people are just cats.
Unrelated but: Where did Moonkitti’s Frecklewish website response video go? I know it wasn’t a "real, scripted, planned" video, but I wanted to rewatch it :(
I know!!! I noticed the same, it was privated/deleted.
Sad
It’s kind of saddening to see just how cynical the production of Warriors was from the start
in conclusion: give us some damn LGBT+ cats already!
They legit actually can’t. It’s not the fact they are cats, it’s the fact if they do they will literally be cut off from 60+ countries, and boom. Money goes down the drain.
@@funkyfelineonthecase counterclaim: wings of fire
@@sunndunes counterclaim: that’s an entirely different series. Plus, wings of fire doesn’t even have that many translations/sold in as many different places as Warriors. It’s obvious Warriors is a cash grab in a whole, so adding in an lgbtq character would make them lose what keeps them going: money
@@funkyfelineonthecase I don't think so, the community for warrior cats has grown enough to keep them going no matter what they write. If they did add some LGBTQ+ representation, i imagine their longtime fans and overall audience would still continue buying their books, if not making them more popular with those who've been waiting for something interesting like that to occur within the series. but of course, it is optimistic to think that all of the writers would sign off on that, we simply don't live in a open-minded world like that yet.
@@rotting.prince6504 it’s not that. They will LITERALLY be banned from certain countries, thus people no longer being able to buy their books. It’s not that people will stop buying them, it’s that they will literally be unable to (buy them).
Day 9 of asking Moon to talk about Brackenfur
Y E S
Cats also have scent glands in their paws and face so rubbing them on a tree or bush would also leave a scent “marker”
she said that
I like to write my warrior cats oc stories in a way that the characters are actually more like real cats. Leaders are often female, toms often leave their group as young adults to start their own (it’s they’re free choice, no one forces them - except maybe some bad parents), females tend to have multiple mates and more kittens (my oc Clans are a famous cat colony living next to a „feral cats research center“ with humans that catch some of them twice a year to spay & neuter them; that way the clans don’t get too overpopulated; also seastar once let herself and her kittens get captured by the humans because they were sick to a point where not even the medicine cat could help them, because she knew humans would take care of them and save her kittens - she managed to escape afterwards)
The queens take care for all the kittens, not just their own litter, so that the biological mother can go out hunting etc.
Fathers don’t spend too much time with their kittens
The cats often sleep when it’s sunhigh and go on patrols when it’s sunrise or sundown
I love this concept!
Honestly I think them being more human is a good thing, it make it physically possible to almost completely and totally understand their motivations, thought processes and lives and also prevents undeserving characters to be treated cruelly or unkindly as they would be in a more realistic cat civilization setting.
another note that i dont see people talk about much is the fact that cats cannot see the color red, at all. it just looks like green to them. so warriors with names like redtail should actually be named greentail lmao.
I'm not sure this is entirely true, but it is true that they don't see colors the same way people do. But honestly? That really doesn't matter because warriors isn't trying to be realistic.
@@warriorcatkitty yeah, i just thought it was funny to think about. and yeah cats have two color cones in their eyes, one for violet to blue light, and one for yellow to green light, they can't see red at all, closest thing is violet. woulda been neat for them to somehow incorporate that in lore tho, an animal comic called nature of natures art does that pretty well
“Male cats in warriors dont fight over females”
Ashfur and brambleclaw:
👀
just what I was thinking lol
Me: _only knows what has been covered by In A Nutshell videos and what I read from the 3 super editions I own from like 7 years ago_
Moonkitti: 13:27 "Rootspring even uses this inherited talking to earth power to try and find a trace of Bristlefrost after she dissolves, and somehow through this absurd superpower, he finds her dying dream instead."
Me: What in tarnation is *going on* over there??
Hate to make a suggestion on a post not anyway relevant but uh, you ever gonna talk about kitty sexism? You said you would later on in the ashfur video and I’m genuinely curious about your take on it
Sunnyfall made a video about it!
This is a lovely coincidence as yesterday I saw a comment saying "*Insert random warrior cat surrounded by drama* is completely justified in killing because feral cats kill!" this video perfectly sums up what I wish to say to people like that.
Feral cats usually don't kill other cats unless it's a battle for territory between males. And that is still weird.
Also, that's a poor excuse imo.
The Clan cats are acting as like as a human primitive group millions years ago. They haven't discovered fire and writing but technically they are starting a civilization. If twolegs disappeared because of mushroom war or Covid-cough, the clan cats would be next dominant intelligent species on the earth. (Thats my AU idea)
Yeah after a while I don't even imagine them as just cats anymore but they talk like people that just occasionally turn into cats for hunting.
Gonna imagine that for fun the next time I read a warriors book
I like to think that the sisters being 'punished' for keeping male kits is entirely coincidental- or even just the result of the whole 'if you wait long enough something bad will eventually happen and then they can blame it on that one guy' thing.
I also think StarClan covering the moon is coincidental
When people try to excuse stuff as "they're cats" I always point out the fact they behave more like humans and thus if I find something they did morally wrong they likewise would believe a similar thing..they're not "just cats". People often use the cat excuse for apprentice warrior ships.."cats don't care about ages" if they didn't care about ages they wouldn't care when apprentices are named as apprentices, they may be in the body of a cat but they very much are just like us!
A lot of things are horrible mistakes as they're seemingly writing as they go..no thought no brain. A lot doesn't make sense as there isn't really an over-arching plot but there also is, they never really worked on the world building mostly just the main characters and firestars line..so rules can be kinda dumb, things they do can be kinda dumb, ages they don't know as they've never focused on world building wat-so-ever.
i wonder what everyone thinks of the dragons in Wings of Fire. for some reason the dragons feel a lot less human even though they have scrolls, politics, reading/writing, armour, blankets, piercings etc. because we don’t have dragons in our world to compare. but every now and again i’ll see something that is too human in that world. i like it sometimes; it makes the dragons another species capable of sentience, side by side with humans, but then at that point why not write about human characters? (i love the dragons tho)
It's different when it's a made-up species. Dragons can be sentient, they can act exactly like humans, and it's because they don't exist in real life. Of course, the cats in warriors aren't real either, so there's nothing wrong with making them act like humans. But because CATS do exist in real life, people get confused and argue about how the cats in the series are supposed to act.
Those dragons have all sorts of cool abilities:D
It's different because dragons don't exist in real life, besides if it was about humans i think barely any people would read it
*WC characters:* in all ways but physical, I am a human person.
*WC characters:* _[medicine cat weeping over the vows of eternal solitude and chastity required of them in order to take on the esteemed role of healer and religious leader]_
FINALLY! MORE SPECIFIC SPOILER WARNINGS!!! you'd think a community based in 80 books of kitty shenanagans would be more specific when it comes to spoiler warnings, knowing that the majority of the community isent done with the books, but all they ever say is "sPoIleRs" AND THEY NEVER SPECIFY FOR WHAT! But you, YOU. MOONKITTI. An indevidual that I found out exiseted particularly because of their "i spoil" series, YOU are the pionyeer of the new age... thank you...
Warrior cats is game of thrones for kids.
So they made it PC and turned all the people into cats so they can get away with violence and gore and murder and graphic childbirth scenes with lots of blood and wailing cats.
I just consider them to be enlightened from religion and thats what makes them more human.
Something tells me you have neither watched nor read game of thrones.
Moonkitti, have you ever read the Named series by Clare Bell? I would love to hear your thoughts on this topic as a comparison/contrast between these two series.
I have, but I think the Named series is a bit mature to discuss on my channel
Warriors, for me, has always had the issue of realism. Obviously this isn't realistic, it's a book about murder cats with powers and religion n shit. So they should embrace that. Instead of doing dumb things that make the books worse they really should just go all out with how unrealistic it can be instead of giving themselves limits they're forced to stuff things into. Like, disabled cats should be able to become warriors. Why not? It may be a bit unrealistic but who cares? Cats should be able to be LGBT+. A slightly unrealistic fur or eye color? WHo cares. Hollyleaf should have been able to train that fox I will die on this hill- Ok ok, got a bit wild there lol Jokes aside, I wish they'd stop trying to do everything and instead focus more on what works. Making it less realistic makes it more interesting, and I personally think it would be better if they leaned into that. This is all just my opinion tho, no shade to people who think differently.
Imagine if Hollyleaf just showed up in the last hope battle with her fox buddy.
I'm currently working on writing and drawing an AU of Warriors where they're all humans, and the only real changes are mostly in setting and character design. The characters themselves I barely even change, (unless I'm bothered by the way they're written) it's moreso about converting the environment around them so instead of only hunting mice and squirrels, they're hunting bigger game and also growing crops within the territorys. Change the claws to dual wielding knifes and other such weapons, space out the timing where kits are born, make Twolegs incomprehensible eldritch beings, and bada-bing-bada-boom, Warrior Cats without the cats.
This also give me a chance to make the clans more distinct, with the way they dress, the space where they live and that affecting their resources, and the way I choose to represent their fighting styles.
Most of this stuff doesn't really change the core of Warriors, because these cats basically are already anthropomorphized in everything but appearance and minor traits.
Idk why "make twolegs incomprehensible eldritch beings," made me laugh so much
10/10 idea
People talk about “unrealistic” or “realistic” as an argument in what cats know or not know when at the end of the day, we have cats in the series who act like humans in a cat body and having superpowers with grammar, spelling, and terminology mistakes that happen often. I wonder if the Sisters being terrible religious zealots was their intention, but then again, we already have something like those in the series, if I’m not mistaken.
Can I bring up how Sunstar is just StarStar but people are like “cats don’t know that” when I criticized their opinion on Twigbranch being Branchbranch but not bringing up Sunstar? Cats don’t know people are aware of the sun and stars being the same, but cats also don’t know that people have their own language that make “Branchbranch” (It’s a series based on English writing that can differentiate twig and branch)
12:00
Is it just me or is the Sisters somewhat inspired by the Romani? They are nomadic and also are descended from a “single man kittypet family.” Roma also descend from a single group that left India
I know they are also inspired by the amazons, but it seems to take inspiration from both.
This applies to literally every single nomadic group that was founded by a small group. This is not unique to the Romani in anyway.
Wait a minute....
That means that-
(Spoilers for arc two)
The twolegs were capturing and caging other people......
Thats pretty messed up....
Yeah I'm pretty sure battle cats doesn't count as xenofiction for the exact reasons you've laid out.
battle cats is an awesome game
That is why I appreciate the "Survivors" so much. There are a lot of downsides to this series, but dogs do act like dogs.
Except for the "alpha" stuff. That myth was disproven a while ago.
I wish the authors learned body language before writing the series tho, because they are not using appeasing signs the right way (which is dog's language in real life, go check it out btw it's really interesting!)
One way Warrior cats are super realistic is when there are books that are nothing more than cats bickering, such as the rather or not to kill Bramblestar in TBC. Because cats are hardheaded and idiots half the time. For example: one cat hits another and that cat (who was hit) blames a different cat entirely and a fight ensues.
Cats would 100% realistically waste time just bickering and blaming each other for everything.
I don’t mind the human like qualities of the cats, I find it just as interesting as a realistic group of cats.
4:50 In Tallstars Revenge on a border patrol tallpaw is said to spray something halfheartedly
so yeah the cats are pissing everywhere lol
Man, the more I learn about cat cults, the more I'm scared for kids whose lives revolved around the books.
I always hated how in warriors female cats with kits are called queens when in real life a queen is what you call a female cat who doesnt have kits like wtf
If it was marking territory by scratching trees, what does WindClan do?
Touch grass, they have to touch grass.
spraying or rubbing their bodies/faces of surfaces
Well, they piss
Quick thing about that border thing:
When the clans were leaving the forest, they mentioned " Brackenfur rubbing his head on the ferns for the last time *as if There was a territory border to mark* " Implying that this was how they marked their borders. Im a little unsure though as in Crookedstars promise they sprayed instead.
So yeah thats weird.
Cats do both :)
Me only on forest of secrets and I hear spoilers and I’m like OK
Actually I do remember ONE scene where Rootpaw went out on patrol reluctantly as he was about to leave to find Bristlefrost to talk to her or something like that? (it was either book 1 or 2 of TBC) and he marked a stick or something during the patrol by rubbing his cheek on it, but otherwise I can't think of a single other time where they weren't vague. They're proooobbbably usually urinating I assume.
(NOT SCOLDING OR ANYTHING BTW- in fact it doesn't change ur point at all, JUST- noting ig?? since it was relevant, I don't think this one super rare instance is something someone would remember)
EDIT: read Into The Wild a couple months ago now and that reminded me since I was re-binging ur vids, it goes into uncomfortable detail about Tigerclaw "raising his tail and spraying" to mark their territory, SO! Arc 1 cats definitely went there, BUT I think they kinda started drifting more into the "let's either have them rub their face on shit, and/or not explain anymore than that" territory later on. A LOT of arc 1 details are moot atp
4:17 Watership Down!!! I'm so happy you referenced it in passing, it's such a good book ;-;
To some extent I'm okay with the fact that they aren't strictly following cat behavior and biology. But, this series could about almost any type of animal and it wouldn't change much, and that makes me a little sad.
8:17 is that a reference to SSS warriors Whitestorm? I LOVED HIM SO MUCH
also great vid you brought up a lot of good points, and everything makes sense even to me and my 2 braincells!
What about Dovewing and Tigerstar? Does everyone forget he pretty much groomed her? They were seeing eachother when she was a fresh apprentice and he was a warrior.
I honestly haven't read their books, but they give me strong sus vibes.
I really hope this doesn't spark another drama were everyone cancels everyone over a bad ship in a book.
The same could be said for Bramblestar and Squrrielflight. He was already a full fledged warrior when she was apprenticed. I think when it comes to grooming, the whole “Spottedleaf Situation” is the perfect example, a fully grown adult cat manipulating a child and wanting to make her his mate the moment he could “legally” do it. Tigerheart/star and Dovewing were courting before he became leader and I thiiiink their age gap is significantly less than what other more creepy age gaps have been, I think he had only been a warrior for a short time at that point.
Edit: Honestly thinking about it, Bramblestar and Squirrelflight might be worse than Dovewing and Tiger. Bramblestar had been a warrior for much longer, and is much older than Squirrelflight.
@@mageofdoomsie1598 Yeah, I don’t think it was intentional either, but that’s what we still got :( Poor Squirrelflight…
@@mageofdoomsie1598 She was still a child. He was an adult when he started hitting on her and asking her to meet him. He also proceeds to take advantage of her trust and use her. He’s definitely a predator, it’s almost as bad as Thistleclaw and Spottedleaf. I think they’re worse than Bramble Squirrel in that case because Bramble and Squirrel never acted like mates when she was an apprentice. Dove and Tiger did though, he confessed his love for her when she was an apprentice, he met her in secret when she was an apprentice, they were kind of dating when she was an apprentice.
@@BK-is5fj I think we can all agree it’s all bad