The Fall of Electric Car Prices
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- Опубликовано: 27 май 2024
- A brief look at the downward trend of used electric car prices and how it plays into the future of EV sales. It becomes a hard sell to push certain ecological agendas when these vehicles become lease-only products designed to be flushed away in favor of short-term ownership. We compare prices on the Toyota BZ4X, BMW i4, BMW iX, Mustang Mach E, GV60, Ioniq 5, Lucid Air, Tesla Model Y, Nissan Ariya, Polestar 2, VW ID4, and Porsche Taycan.
#cars #business #technology
www.autotempest.com
00:00 Intro
1:15 Toyota BZ4X
1:40 BMW i4
2:00 BMW iX
2:40 Ford Mustang Mach-E
3:12 Genesis GV60
3:45 Ioniq 5
4:18 Kia Soul EV
4:55 Lucid Air
5:22 Tesla Model 3/Y
6:11 Nissan Ariya
6:38 Mini Cooper EV
6:55 Polestar 2
7:33 VW ID4
8:25 Porsche Taycan and Audi E Tron 
Авто/Мото
"...we made them and didn't release one because we hated the car so much."
OK, now I REALLY wanna see the VW ID4 video😆
Yeah. This. If anything the videos about cars that are horrible and should be avoided are much more important to release than any other
@@Niko-qs1sl This would be the BEST thing to do for their channel in terms of integrity and love for their audience. But at the same time, releasing negative reviews can get them blacklisted which will affect them as a business because then they can't get access to cooler new cars from that brand similarly to other channels and they'll fall behind/have to pay to get cars out of their own pocket.
It's out there.... I'm not going to link it here but you can find it. Unless they removed it from their unlisted playlist.
Where??
Pleeeeeeeeeease
I’m one who purchased a Hertz Model 3 for under $25k so that gets me the $4k Used EV Credit. Essentially a $20k Model 3 with 65k miles. Been in it a month and very happy.
Great deal
Just appraised a 22 Taycan Sport Turismo yesterday. 22k mls, $145k MSRP. Porsche dealer hit it at $65k. 😮
Holy cow, that's a chunk
Is that retail value or trade in value?
HAHAHAH
I’ll give you 66! Lol
@@Averna222 trade/wholesale but still. vAuto was saying it’d take me 120 days to move it if I retailed it ha.
On many models the immediate depreciation is impacted by the $7,500 fed tax incentive that the first owner took.
But so many have lost the incentive now. That should support the used prices.
Exactly.. must be part of the equation, especially on cheaper models like that Toyota.
Yep, last year in many states you could buy a new Model 3 for around $35k including fed and state incentives. (I did!)
I feel they should have mentioned this. By the time you get fed/state tax incentives/manufacture incentives it's generally like $10k off right off the bat so of course they'll depreciate by that much driving them off the lot.
There’s a 4K point of sale federal credit available now for used EV’s if you buy from a dealer that is set up with the program.
Mark/Jack, you guys should be releasing videos no matter how bad the product is. It would help educate the masses. Just my 2c.
They should release it ESPECIALLY if the product is bad.
Yes! No company shall ever feel that it is possible to hide behind their hard earned brand identity and release a bad product to the masses. If it is shit, the product must be bashed so the company does not have the luxury option for sticking to the deadlines and prematurely releasing a bad product for more $$$
Can't do it because they'll get blacklisted
Yeah there’s a balance. For each video, they have to be as transparent as possible when talking about the negative aspects of a car, or else we the community will stop watching. But they have to balance those negative points with what is still good about the car so that they don’t burn all their bridges that make even getting brand new cars for review possible.
If a car has almost zero redeeming qualities, that’s going to be a tough review to make without destroying the connections that make running this channel possible. Too many scorched earth reviews, and we start getting reviews a year after the car is released, and likely less frequently too.
@@Swonke That makes no sense. If a product is THAT bad, the manufacturer needs to her about it, and deal with it. That's what transparency actually is.
You should ALWAYS release the videos of the cars you hate. Those are my favorite!
Totally agree. It’s so annoying watching other reviewers reviewing a horrible car, yet they don’t say anything bad about it.
Its a difficult thing to do, a horrible review can have them blacklisted from press cars from that auto group in the future.
@@darthlost Yeah, but they sure are fun!
@@darthlost If a manufacturer would rather blacklist someone telling the truth than improve their products, they don't deserve to be reviewed. These reviews are free publicity for them.
I think there's a ton of value in sharing your thoughts about cars you don't like. So I'm glad we got those glimpses behind the scenes.
I vote they put it on Patreon lol!
Being too negative about a vehicle is an easy way to get yourself blacklisted by a manufacturer. Once blacklisted, you won't be invited to any new vehicle launches, which is not only a nice perk where they fly you, wine you, dine you, but it can have big financial implications because you may not be able to shoot the video about it until 6 months later when it hits dealer lots, which by then the hype is over and the clicks to your video will be greatly diminished.
Many of the used Teslas Hertz is selling were loaned out to ride share drivers and were in much worse shape than a traditional rental car
I can imagine those ride share drivers and their customers beat the hell out of them, let some basic maintenance matters slide, and didn't care at all about maximizing battery health.
This. No one in the news 🗞️ reported that part it was so annoying
Most of the Model 3 I saw on the Hertz site (right after the announcement) had north of 100,000 miles and were priced in the low $20s. When new ones are in the mid $40s the Hertz vehicles are not cheap.
And looks like mostly single motor variants.... blah
Those vehicles will be total trash. DO NOT BUY. Can you just imagine a used EV that was a rental/rideshare? The nasty curb rash on that Y rim is a perfect example...and that's what you CAN see, imagine what you can't see. Hahaha
Everyone is getting that BMW experience!
Only M cars hold their value for bmws. The rest fall off a cliff
@@naisbest3020hence why BMW slathers little M badges on everything.
@@bandwagon240 it really dilutes the brand. Kinda sad.
@@naisbest3020 agreed. A M badge used to mean something truly special. Now they've got M badges on SUVs and gone one worse and added "competition" badges too. What competition is a SUV in? Is there some road racing series with SUVs that isn't being talked about?
@@bandwagon240 don't forget the "pinnacle of M" that is the XM....lol
My dealer can’t sell our ID4s, we have 10-$12k off and still can’t sell any of them. We are no longer allowing trade in’s for ID4s.
Edmunds lists 2,300 new ID4’s and 630 used ones rotting away at dealers.
The used ones are priced $20,000 below new and most have less than 15,000 miles. 😂
This is what I want to hear. Complaints about the ID4 run from reviewers who whine about piano black to reviewers who whine about laggy screens to reviewers who whine about since-fixed electronics patch or OTA fixes, to reviewers who whine about charge times being 15% longer than fastest-in-industry, or 0-60 times of 7.5 seconds (not 3), or 250 miles range (not 400), etc. Let it happen. I'd snap one up soon at $20k (for a 15k mile example) in a heartbeat.
@@mattclark1278 They aren’t that cheap…but go to a dealer and make a lowball offer. They are piling up at dealerships.
@@mattclark1278 go to a dealer and make a lowball offer. They are stacking up at dealerships right now.
@@user-vx7vi3vq1c Cargurus says that there are over 6,000 new ID4s for sale!
I got my polestar 2 with 10k miles, paid around 34k used. Still shocks me someone paid 70 for it 2 years ago
Very tempted by these...the polestars have got to be some of the best bang for your buck right now. I don't think the Volvo/Geely funding news is quite as concerning as it's being made out to be. Geely is still fully committed to the brand and they have a long lineup of releases planned, and they certainly have the capital to stick with it. Also many Volvo models already are made in China anyway, so that ship has already sailed for anyone viewing Polestar as a lesser brand than Volvo.
@@shehandesilva7530 honestly its a steal right now. With the amount of iccu issues the kia ev6 and Hyundai ioniq 5 are having, almost patting myself on the back for going with it
@@shehandesilva7530 go for it. Honestly it raises eyebrows for anyone who sits in it, and has quality unlike anything else on the market for the price.
Polestars getting very cheap as company could go bankrupt. Volvo just dumped them. Having an EV with no warranty or ongoing support could be very expensive.
And what is your 4 year old computer worth?
Prices here in Norway mirror what you found in USA, so it's not just you that see these extreme price drops for almost new cars. Found a Taycan 4s for $63k with 5k miles on it, so new car for $40k off in 2 years. Crazy...
They are not worth the discounted price.
I mean you're in Norway. EVs are absolutely not practical in places where cold weather dominates. If you want an EV, buy one for cheap up there and immediately drive it down to Spain or Italy as soon as the weather is warm enough.
@@Traysandornorway dominates in EV sales though
@@Traysandor Actually, Norway is not as cold as you think. It’s warmed by the Gulfstream. The climate is similar to New York State.
@@Traysandor Bad example to make that point because Norway has one of the highest EV adoption rates per capita int he entire world.
I see this as an absolute win
Yup, more affordable EVs for everyone will be a good thing, and it's just getting started.
I see overpriced used EVs.
@@ordinaryhuman5645 We'll see how long it lasts, supply is bound to fall. Especially with everyone, except Tesla pretty much, ramping down production.
@@rashad123us 2024 might be a down year in the US, which was lagging anyway, but the rest of the world is still chugging along. Between China and the next gen Tesla model coming in 2025, I wouldn't expect any downturn to last very long, even if legacy automakers scale back their EV output.
@@ordinaryhuman5645Clearly you aren’t paying attention to anything at the geopolitical level between the U.S. and China/Russia lol.
Arent these price drops perfectly normal for new cars? I seem to remember the saying that the price drops a quarter as soon as you drive off the lot.
For luxury cars and unreliable car brands, yes. But most reliable Japanese vehicles will hold their value very well, especially after 1 year.
No, those are not perfectly normal rates of depreciation.😂
I thought it was about 30% but yes, buying any new car and then selling it soon after is financially painful. Atm EV’s may well be losing more but that means there will be some great used EV vehicles out there at a reasonable price.
For luxury vehicles + EVs + the inflated pandemic MSRPs I agree this is pretty normal.
Definitely not normal, especially in the strange times we are in. Used car prices are high af. EVs doing the opposite and depreciating fast. It's even worse than expected.
I may be wrong but I believe the recall on Ford Mach-Es is for the high voltage battery junction box component, not the battery itself.
It is. Meanwhile Toyota announces a 5 million+ recall related to airbags and you don't hear a peep.
@@ecognitio9605 I’ve seen that recall story on every major news outlet.
@@ecognitio9605 Product reputations among the public have inertia and are best viewed as lagging indicators of where manufacturers' quality actually lies I think.
@@ecognitio9605 it was all over the news
Yeah, he clearly doesn’t know much about EVs; he’s just fishing for reasons to complain.
Slightly off topic, but I absolutely love that you rep Firefox with Privacy Badger in the browser shots.
Firefox is the GOAT
I would expect nothing less from a tech nerd like mark
I still prefer Brave over Firefox@@Jimster481
Brave browser, baby
The next step would be to use Mult App Containers so you can isolate website cookies into their own container. This way, Google or Amazon or Facebook or any other website doesn't know what other websites you visit and your habits from those websites.
Nearly all these cars had a $7500 federal tax credit and in many states a state EV rebate. So the MSRP is irrelevant. If you buy a $50k EV with a $7500 tax credit, no one will buy it used for more than $42.5k, because it would be cheaper to buy new. So if you sell it for $41.5k, the depreciation is only $1k not $8.5k
Yeah, Mark should've mentioned that. The VAST majority of these were sold well under MSRP because tax breaks.
Those tax incentives weren't free "government" money. That was tax payer money that SUBSIDIZED your purchase. The cars MSRP wasn't lowered by the subsidy.
This is the same kind of moronic thinking EV owners use when they brag about how cheap it is to charge at home.
It is cheap because EV's are less than 1% of the vehicles on the road and once again EVERY electrical user is subsidizing your cost. Do EV owners factor in the increase for every electrical device they own ...how about their non-EV neighbors?
@@JoeBLOWFHB Meanwhile moronic thinkers never look at how much more the government is spending on the fossil fuel industry. The International Monetary Fund (IMF) estimates that global fossil fuel subsidies reached a record $7 trillion in 2022
Your list/non-car reviews are always great (bidet update when?). Hopefully these let you slow down a little and give you a little room to breathe.
Mark has a video on Bidets? As an avid Toto enthusiast and SG fan, I'm going to need to watch this lol
@@TheAntinowherelane Yes, Mark did a Toto toilet video.
@@dougrobinson8602 Yes, Dorothy, and Toto, too!
@@TheAntinowherelaneYou’re in for a (super clean rectal) treat!
It appears the new electric car market has been a bit overpriced. With not plentiful and often unreliable charging infrastructure and disappointingly low range in cold weather are lots more late model EVs going to become available, continuing fast depreciation?
Don't forget used EV tax credit can potentially knock off another $4k on some of the vehicles.
yep. As long as you make less than $75k a year. I started thinking about taking advantage of this but then noticed the income cap.
75k for single filer; 150k married joint filers. But no help dine Used clean vehicle credit sold $25k cap and thru dealer only and one owner who nit get initial new car credit. Sheesh!
Quite strict agi limits and vehicle sale price limits… and it can’t be private party
Mach Es are getting dumped like crazy in canada. Everyone had the unfortunate moment of realizing they do not even charge if its -25 out.
-25 is a lot
Wouldn't last 10 Min's here in Chicago, IL weather.
@@KA9DSLbruh they put the wrong coolant in the lines in Chicago. That’s why the lines froze.
EV’s are in other colder places yet you don’t hear of issues from those places…why? Maybe because if it’s on the news then by that definition it’s not the norm
@@pleasedontwatchthese9593 It is, but it's also pretty common in most central Canadian winters, everything east of the rockies to Toronto. That, and we have zero infrastructure for EVs and places in Canada are far apart. I saw 3 Mach-E's on the side of the road in a 1.5hr drive on one day in winter. I then found out that LFP batteries, while having less degradation, are prone to condensation buildup. Ford, as a safety measure, prevents charging if the battery pack is -25*C. That means no driving for at least a third of the time between November and April.
@@Michael-pi8ps Incorrect. There is safety measure built into Ford LFP setups that electronically prevent charging if the battery is -25. LFP have plenty of advantages but cold weather isnt one of them.
I was looking at the Bolt EV and EUV used and those are a real deal. 18k for a 250 mile range. Great little city car
It's one of the rare EVs with underrated driving range. Not unusual to get 280 miles.
One problem with the Bolt is that it's front wheel drive. With EV torque, you have to hit the throttle like a butterfly or you immediately lose traction.
I had a 2017 model for like 4 years and every time I accelerated off of a stop light, I felt like I was on a drag strip. Screechy tire noise every. Single. Time. And you gotta be EXTREMELY careful of hydroplaning.
They also don't do amazing at highway speeds. Over 65 mph, you really feel the pain of wind resistance.
Even with that, though, I loved the car. If you don't need every inch of range, just put some non-EV tires on them and it completely changes the character of the car!
Bolt is a great EV. I did 70+ miles daily for 3 years without a single stop at a public charger.
I got a 2017 Bolt EV with a new battery (and warranty!) in September with 19kmiles for around $18k OTD. This was right before prices fell off the cliff, but my family needed it when we needed it, and it’s still a great value. A used Bolt with a recall-replaced battery is probably the best bang/buck EV out there.
But! It’s our second car, we have a place to charge at home, and we use our first car to road-trip. This is pretty much the IDEAL use case for the Bolt and I’m not totally sure I’d recommend it for everyone, especially if you can’t charge at home. Even just 120V is fine.
Yep, just got my Bolt for $16K ($12K after tax credit). 26K miles, battery replaced with battery warranty til 2031 or 126K miles. Absolutely love the car!
Love the different format 👍
Picked up a used 2022 F150 lightning Lariet extended range 15,000 miles with all the options and clean title in Dec. MSRP $83K for $58,500 and they threw in the mobile charger. Will work great for my construction business as the commuter rig along side my F250 Super Duty diesel for all the heavy towing beyond 10K pounds.
I'm extremely happy with it so far !
Call Hoovie.
@@user-vx7vi3vq1c Maybe you noticed Hoovie only makes videos that will get views.
Our 2022 e-tron (SUV) is worth about half what we paid for it new, but new cars are never investments, and we usually keep a vehicle for ten years, so the depreciation is spread out over a longer time period. It's a good time to be a buyer, if one is interested in a lightly used EV.
My parents bought that car brand new just when it came out in 2019, I do not dare to even think about their resale value :()
I can’t fathom actually buying an EV to keep. They are just too volatile and disposable right now.
While the sting will hurt less over a longer period, you're still coming out in the hole, though - compare to a 10 year old Lexus (on the higher end of retention), and the money brought back on the Lexus would blow the Audi away. Oddly, Subarus seem to have an absurdly high resale, as well.
@@brucesuitt993 I would say a bunch of them are not, especially compared to the alternative, which is a bunch of hyper complicated and overstressed 2.0L turbo four CUV things with 8/9/10-speed transmissions, start/stop, hybridization, PHEV. I wouldn't touch quite a lot of the new gas cars on the market, ticking time bombs once out of warranty. It's way easier for any given brand to make their EVs more reliable than their gassers. EVs don't have a hundred moving parts nor fuel under pressure at 5000psi.
Yup the e-tron has dropped a lot. So much that I am interested in buying an older one.
Got used model 3 dual motor 80k mi for $25k plus $8k EV rebates, came out under $20k, best car I’ve had, mine has acceleration boost, does 0-60 3.5s with 1ft rollout. It costs me $15 to charge it, 280mi range.
Bravo, thats a great deal. Enjoy it.
@japanwatchconnection by 300k-500k miles, he will long be in a different one.
How were you able to get such a high EV rebate? I thought the 8k only applied towards a new car purchase.
@@b_chill in California, we get rebate from PGE $4k and $4k IRS Used EV rebate if the car is $25k or under.
I bought a GM buyback 2021 Chevrolet Bolt Premier with 16,500 miles for $17,288. They are flying off the shelves. I seen some good deals and when you called, they were sold. Mine was on the internet for one day. I went the next business day and tried it out. Did not hesitate and bought it on the spot. It does have software fix where you can only charge to 80%. I have another 5,000 miles and that should determine if the battery is good or bad. I win either way.
These videos are decent. I'm glad you found a way to put out content without having to work too much on editing. Thanks for the content.
Makes me feel better about my ‘21 Impreza Spott that I picked up for 25k.
Three years later with 25k on the clock and it’s worth 22.5k here in Utah where Subarus are popular for all the skiers.
So 10% loss in value in 3 years. That’s amazing.
The price declines are much worse than they seem for buyers, as a lot of cars sold in in the last 3 years had markups on them. That 2019 Soul EV is a bad deal, you can get a Bolt/Leaf/Niro for about the same $$.
Yeah it's kind of funny seeing all these people who bought a car at the peak of the market suddenly realising it wasn't a very good idea.
>You can get a Bolt/Leaf/Niro for the same price
Yeah but why though?
Yeah, there’s a few Bolts in my area for around $20k. They were $37k new.
@@drunkenhobo8020They will never admit it. They think an EV saves them thousands of dollars a year in gas. 😂
@@hollowgonzalo4329 The Soul had like 111 miles of range when new, the Bolt had 238 miles even back in 2017, and most have had the batteries upgraded to a newer chemistry which can often exceed the rated range. The Leaf/Niro also have substantially more range than the Soul EV for the same price.
The first flat-screen TV to be sold went for a whopping $15,000 due to its innovative design and specialty graphics.
EV's will hold their value as good as a smart phone. AKA, 50% loss in the first year.
It's a tech product at the end of the day, it will get outdated at a higher speed than a regular car.
Going to be worse than that. Labour in general is very expensive. Imagine the labour on removing semi welded battery packs. Battery replacement is going to be 40 to 50k. Nobody will want one of these used.
Correcto!
Stop being a racist, bigot, supremacist, conspiracy theorist.
But the battery replacement cost is going to continue to skyrocket.
It's really obvious what happened. A bunch of models came out in the lockdowns, with 0% interest, limitless money and a disrupted supply chain, increasing prices by 50%+ across the board.
Just one or two years later the situation completely changed, now with normal supply of parts, massive inflation happening and interest rates in the roof, plus free tax credit money for new cars.
Obviously, the price of all of those vehicles dropped by a third or half, with the used ones getting specifically the bad end.
In 5 years the market will be completely normal and people won't even remember this "drama"
In 5 years rates could be double what they are today.
Or maybe people just don't want EVs
@@JoJoJoker not gonna happen.
@@Argedis that's provably false.
As the increase yoy is tremendous across all markets.
The other thing is that many EVs were able to sell at absurd prices for a while because they were available right away, while a Tesla might require a 6+ month wait. (including used Teslas)
Once Tesla was no longer backlogged, it was no longer possible to charge a convenience premium for a car that was available right away.
I just sold my GV60 Advanced for 35. It had 26000 miles. So yeah, that was a massive depreciation hit. It was a great car, except that I couldn't get service done locally. The closest was 550 miles away the first time it needed repair, and at this point, it's still 150 miles away, despite there being a local Genesis dealer here.
Silly me, though, I just picked up my new i4 yesterday, though I leased it this time. So I know ahead of time about the massive depreciation now. I'm still sticking with an EV, because I like the cars that much.
My local dealer has like 15 of those e- mustangs sitting on the lot!
Imagine the people who paid over msrp a couple of years ago.
And they won't budge under mid to high 50s for them. Too much money compared to a model 3 or y
Same thing at my local dealership. They all go past the Mustang Mach-E and leave with a F-150 or Explorer.
Mine has over 30!
Ford banked on the name helping sales but we all know they just pimped out the name to an abomination that should never be badged as a "mustang".
Amazing video. I love this, need more market updates from you guys. Also, please post the other videos as outakes/funnies.
In Colorado you can buy a brand new bolt for $15k after instant rebates from federal and local incentives.
Government incentives are the dumbest thing like why can't we get that for good fuel mileage cars lol
@@tyhyhh Beacuse we are running out of fossil fuels and need the majority of cars to be off fossil fuels
@@CruiseControl1 BS
@@CruiseControl1 hahahahaaha
@@morbward8281 I know facts are hard for some people
Confused, isn't this how it used to be all along? Buy new, pay first adopter tax.
But usually there is something better coming along just behind. You could maybe make the case for solid state but we are about 7yr away from a full rollout of those. Even then, Tesla appears to be the only one even attempting to address the infrastructure problem. Toyota is doing hybrids only. Ford and GM are begging Biden to stop EV mandates. BMW just announced they are stopping EV and going H2. It's over. At least for now.
And the faster the tech is moving the higher you'd expect them to depreciate
Not with EVs. EVs held their value pretty well when they were not mass produced like today. And now they became just like ICE cars.
The difference is people don’t have $30,000+ loans on their phone or computer or TV.
It wasn't this way for a long time because demand exceeded supply by a large amount. Once Tesla was no longer backlogged on new 3/Y models that started to shift.
I suppose this is the result of a lot of people wondering if it's worth getting a secondhand EV that is less advanced.
Or it might be me misreading and these are great deals.
I know I'm not really considering these but others might if the EV fits your lifestyle but you couldn't afford one earlier.
Those Hertz 3s and Ys are soo rough. I’ve looked through many to potentially upgrade a 2019 Model 3. I’d be really hesitant to purchase one of those for a personal vehicle unless you really don’t care if they are beat up.
I am experiencing the old ‘Osborne Effect’ with EV’s. I don’t want to buy because they are improving so much. Tesla’s updated Model Y is coming, for example. But there will be a lot of this as they keep working on better battery chemistry, reduced production costs, etc.
Kinda the same for me (aside from my current garage-less housing). On one hand, even though I’ve wished for a viable EV since I was a kid, I don’t think it would simplify my life right now. But on the other hand, I expect that the tech will be quite impressive by the time my ICE car needs to be replaced.
Tesla has given up on innovating batteries, it's using BYD blade batteries now 😂
It costs over $35,000 to lease an iX for 3 years. I don’t see the value in leasing. Someone explain what I’m missing.
Leasing is for a specific market of people. Of which I am not and i'm guessing you are not. That's why it doesn't make sense to you.
No one seems to think the reason those videos aren’t realized is to keep good relationships with the car companies who let you access new models and in house engineers
Release the videos you made even if you hated the car. Love the content of the channel.
They probably don't want to piss off the manufacturer.
I honestly looked into EVs and couldn't convince myself it was a good idea who so many reliable, small and economic on fuel used cars on the market.
Gas definitely wins if you take a lot of long trips.
I can't even install a charger because my local transformer is tapped out. So many reasons why you'll never see mass adoption until either grids improve or solid state batteries make good on 2x range promises.
3500 on an old Honda or Toyota will do the job. Keep it mint and if you have to sell it, it'll still probably fetch that much. My car appreciated 300% in five years and my wife's can be resold for exactly what we paid for it. Absolutely no point to an EV, not even the environmental side.
@@12ealDealOfficial To your point, we bought a five speed 2009 Yaris for $3250 with
@@thelifeofguyon Bingo.
A friend of mine recently totaled his Tesla Y by backing into a telephone pole at 5 mph. The battery box was dented and the frame tweaked. He used the insurance settlement to buy a new Ioniq 5 from a Boston MetroWest dealership for $8,000 below MSRP. He said their lot was packed with unsold EVs.
Hyundais and KIAs are also very undesirable due to their reliability issues and high amount of theft.
The depreciation is massive on a new EV’s. And buying a used one is a huge gamble on its battery life!
Same thing in Ireland. I just read an article looking at a guy who lost 1,000 euros a month on his VW id4 over the first 22 months of ownership. He wasn't happy!
He was sure happy when he bought the thing. 😂
I am stuck with my ID4 - will loose to much to sell it
In my book, if you really want to be environmental friendly, you'll live somewhere you can rely on your feet, a bicycle or public transportation to do your daily commute. Driving a giant cellphone plagued with planned obsolescence is not eco-friendly.
💯
getting a thrashed rental tesla is a bad idea
Here in Canada, the prices have dropped but not that much. Just a couple of months ago I bought a 2018 Nissan Leaf in Canada, around $17k CAD (maybe 12k usd) . It runs great for the price, I have about 200km in the winter (like now), that is about 125 miles. and probably more than 250km (155 miles) in the summer (cause 20% goes to the heating). It's a great city car that will take you from point A to point B, plus Nissan had some experience making those, so it's really well built. Battery is still under warranty for another 2 years (till 2026), so no worries there. Probably gonna be worth 10k in 3 yr time, assuming the battery is still good, if I can guess by the trend.
Canada get's screwed, as always
I wonder how much that new Bentley electric coupe will be in 3 years 😁
People who buy the Bentley electric car only care about it so they can be seen in it the first three or four times.
@@user-vx7vi3vq1c WTF Nope, Bentleys are used as the daily drivers. They are the work horse city run about for the very wealthy. When you other cars are less practical i.e. supercars. Thus why they ended up with High MILEAGE and full of problems making them worthless when old.
Seems like it will only be delivered to customers in 3 years time. Soo basically MSRP will be the price.
@@NeojhunNope. Look at Edmunds. Most used current model Bentleys are not high mileage. Most have well under 40,000 miles.
One thing to consider is the really cheap short term leases relative to msrp. Discount and incentives and tax 7500 you see cap costs 80% of sticker depending on car
Reminds me of OG top gear with the car buying tips.
I'd love to get into an EV right now because I could charge it at work, but the interest rates are crazy. Even with the deals out there, I can't even come close to my current car payment, which is low because at the end of 21, dealers were desperate for inventory and were throwing money at anyone with a decent trade.
I did this (PHEV tho) and got a new job. Now I doubled my money and can’t charge it (renting with no plug options). Just get a hybrid.
Great video. Tesla price cuts are a big factor in the downward EV price pressure. Model Y is super ugly but it’s a better value for money than almost any other EV
Gotta factor the government rebates already discounted from those used prices
im happy about this. used cars will get affordable again
Surprised the Model S or Model X wasn’t mentioned. Back when the plaid model first launched in 2021 was like 140k then with the price cuts and flooding of the market I see them around 70k now with 20k miles. Crazy loss!
Well Tesla's new car price cuts have definitely hurt resale value on the older models.
Excellent information, thanks for posting. I recently watched another video on the subject of EV depreciation. A VW ID.4 owner found he can't road trip it because of range in the low 200s and lousy public charging experiences plus VW's unhelpful nav system. He wants to get out of it but is under water on his loan to the tune of about $20k.
How bad can his local charging infrastructure possibly be? "Actual highway range" in the low 200's is what Wranglers were doing for a very long time. If he drives 80mph, driving ten slower would up the range 15% alone.
@@thatoneotherotherguyThe "local charging infrastructure' wasn't the issue and I believe I clearly stated he was talking about road tripping. The distances and destinations he wanted to travel meant relying on charging networks that proved to be too unreliable for safety. Making matters worse, VW's nav system was of no help identifying recommended charging stops. Non-Tesla networks have become notorious for their poor service and difficult use.
@@mdensch1I should note that the majority of Tesla models are rated below or far below average for reliability by Consumer Reports Magazine. Only the model 3 is rated average. Compare to Toyota/Lexus hybrids, which are well above average and have much better resale values.
@@mdensch1People speed read with their fingers already at the keyboard too much these days.
We recently leased an Ev with 20% off in incentives. Once we did that, the lease was equal to the gas version, with big cost savings in charging vs gas costs. Since we’re a two-car household, we still have a gas car for roadtrips, but the daily commuter (50-60mi/day) ends up about $150/mo less in EV form… with the big discounts. Without? Not a chance.
thats the ideal setup, 2 car house, electric commuter, gas road tripper. debatably a tesla can road trip pretty well, but there are still areas that are a huge problem, basically all of the midwest lol.
most others are pretty unrealistic for a lot of people. you either have to rent a car for road trips, or just accept you're not going anywhere far for a while
I leased 2 EVs in the pre-COVID days when there were ~$200/month $0 down deals to be had (Spark for $110 and loaded Bolt for $230)...absolutely amazing value for money as a commuter car for a 2 car household like yours/mine. I know the deals aren't that great anymore, but the crashing of used EV prices is good to see. I'm watching Polestar 2 prices as a potential shared commuter for the days I/wife go to the office and for city runaround. They're cheap now, but I get the feeling they'll be touching $20k towards the end of the year, and it's a lot of car for the money.
Are you comparing to a Toyota hybrid? Their superior range and far greater reliability are attributes that should never be ignored when vehicle shopping.
@@davepaturno4290 for me, i only have space for 1 car, so i got a toyota hybrid. no regrets, i love it every time i drive it
@@bradhaines3142 Use to be true but it gets better all the time. Check your charging location maps.
I hope you release the video of the Genesis, provide an honest review. That's what makes reviewers credible and helps give comparisons.
I mean aren’t all cars depreciating a lot the first year?
I bought my 2011 bmw 328 in 2012 with 19k miles on it for 32k which was 22k less than I can tell what it sold for new.
Go back 5 years and watch the drop on Model S, the high end of the market drops hard. Supply and demand is hard to gauge in an emerging market. Ill never go back to gas though.
I’m the kind of person who is constantly on CarGurus looking at every car imaginable within a certain budget, and I also noticed how just within the last month used Tesla prices seemed to have gone off a cliff. Had a family member buy a 21 M3LR pedestrian spec, no extras on top that was $53k. She’s put 12,000 miles on it since summer ‘21. Exact same car going for under $30k MANY times over all around my state. It’s starting to get me interested in leasing one
Thanks to Hertz...
Teslas nowadays don't have that many options, so it's nice to not have to worry about buying used. Also new Model 3's have come down substantially in price and qualified for the $7.5k credit until the 2024 refresh, so a new M3LR at $47k minus 7.5k is a sub-40k car new, making the $30k used examples much less appealing.
@@leocheung2547many buyers don't qualify for the taxbreakbecause they don't make enough.
I wish it was a rebate not based on how much taxes you owe, because that makes it higher cost for poorer people
huh, theres a cap not a minimum@@Tigerex966
@@Tigerex966 luckily the base Model X and Model Y Long Range / Performance still qualify, and the 2024 credit is a point-of-sale credit. Unlike last year, you get it applied to the cost of the car directly while purchasing, and don't have to wait until filing your taxes for the year.
I wouldn't pay the 1-2 year of depreciation price for any of those vehicles.
Please release the ID4 video 🙏
Best part: in WA where I'm at, no sales tax on used EVs under $30k. You can get decent condition model 3s in good spec for low 20s all day
Last year total new/used evs lost around 30% to depreciation, while total gas/diesel/hybrid was closer to 5%. There are many attributing factors and still facing some covid pricing/used supply shortages, but the new ev stands out just as the new i phone stands out, consumers only want the shiny new one with the features theyll never use. a large part is also demographics and market saturation, there is ample supply of aggressively priced new evs with gov kickbacks.
None of the “second owner” class has their own garage or charging options at home. Thats the simple answer.
A used model 3 long range or performance for mid to high 20s is an insane value
Find one at 25k and you get a 4k tax rebate.
Most of the teslas being sold by hertz were used by Uber etc. Probably beat to hell.
I'd love to see the VW ID4 videos personally!
Same
Always great info, thanks Brother
The depreciation on the Audi e-trons is insane! I just bought a certified used 2023 Audi e-tron Chronos edition with 5,000 miles on it for under $60k and love it! The range is fine for my daily needs and it’s such a well built comfy car. I feel bad for the previous owner who lost $30k or more when he traded it in… definitely a car to lease if you have to get one new.
Used is probably the best way to go for an EV
Best way to get a new EV is to lease. Granted you're paying off the assumed depreciation with interest but it's better than being locked in for 6-7yrs on a inflated smartphone on wheels
A lot of good insights here. Just wanted to point out that for eligible (lower MSRP) cars, between federal and state EV incentives you can end up getting $9k-12k in tax credits many states which seriously bites into the used car discount. And for some cars, coupled with the new car warranty, this is arguably a better deal if you're planning to keep the thing. Here in MA for example last year you could get a new RWD Model 3 for like $26k after EV credits. AWD was around $29k. (The RWD and AWD versions are no longer eligible for the federal credit though as of Jan 1.)
Which is ironic. "Save the environment! Buy an EV! BUT GET IT NEW WE DON'T WANT TO BE REUSING OUR ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY CARS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT."
All of this works as long as the subsidies continue. Eventually this becomes too expensive or our overlords just lose patience and they outlaw ICE engines.
@@bvoyelr I hear you. In MA's defense, there are used EV rebates as well, but not federal ones as far as I'm aware and if EV adoption was the real motivation, you'd think they'd offer that. I'm sure it gets even messier politically. Anyway I'm neither endorsing nor criticizing tax credits/rebates; just wanted to mention how much impact it has on the dollars and cents for prospective buyers.
@@ecjmedia And taxpayers foot the bill for incentives.
And a lot of dealers will match the incentives for non-eligible vehicles. We just bought a Subaru Solterra (yes, I know SG hates them) because the dealer offered $10k off including the $7500 to match the Fed Credit it no-longer qualifies for. They know it’s not competitive otherwise, so they are just including it anyway.
Excellent and helpful episode topic! Well done
Love this type of video; short, informative, and just a hair of op-ed. Thanks, guys.
Just started the video but for the iX M60i, the MSRP of $115k quickly becomes a selling price $95k with no negotiation and a lease buy-out. $9,900 lease rebate from BMW and pretty much any dealer will give you 10% off on top of that...another $10k in depreciation in a year to get to $85k is actually not that bad. Of course, there are new cars I would much rather have for $65k than a used BMW iX at $85k, so I am shocked these things have retained so much value.
Dealerships will just lower the car price by $20,000 under MSRP without question? And give you $10,000 rebate, plus 10% off on top of all that?
@@rich531 yes
@@jadawo are you referring to leasing or buying/financing? They won’t care too much of your referring about leasing since they’ll get back the money from the lease buyout.
PROTIP: If you buy a used EV from Hertz or any rental company, you've made a grave mistake.
It's not a guarantee that you'll be in trouble, but the best way to shorten the life of an EV is to treat it like every renter treats it.
Because they fully charge it every day?
Just yesterday, I picked up a 2022 E-tron Premium Plus CPO with 10,000 miles on it for $40,500. Original MSRP was $77,805, so a little over $37k depreciation in 24 months. Even if this depreciation trend continues this is the value proposition for me: I have a low mileage vehicle, supremely comfortable, three years of warranty (CPO) and costs $10 to go 200 miles. Also, Tesla is opening up its charging network which should make non-Tesla EVs more attractive, in particular low range ones like the e-tron. I really think this year is a great time to jump in the used EV market.
I like this sort of video, it’s a nice change of pace!
On the topic of EV buying at the current moment, I agree that leasing is probably the ideal way to do it right now. I’m currently leasing Ioniq 6 SEL RWD and I love it to death, but I just know that it’s going to be pretty badly dated by the time the lease is through at the end of 2026, and it isn’t going to hold any sort of significant resale value then were I to actually own it by then.
Leasing-at the moment, at least-tends to have the broadest incentives and the most eligible models. Coupled with the how rapidly the EV landscape is changing year after year, it probably is best to lease for the next 3-4 years before things settle in, I think. Used prices do make for pretty tempting options, provided the vehicle in question meets your particular use-case. I’m surprised that the Bolt didn’t get a mention, as while the resale value isn’t necessarily super low compared to their MSRP, their average resale value seems to hover below $20k, depending on year and trim, which was quite tempting when I was doing my own car search.
It's just that era of the product. Significant upgrades every year or so mean that owning is a bad proposition.
I bought a new Model 3 RWD with tax credit for $27.9k in December. Hertz is selling them with 80k mi for $25k. Sounds like a pretty good depreciation curve to me. 🤷♂️
Hertz keeps any car for 82,000 miles???? Come on...
Same 😂
27k out the door.
Sounds like a win for consumers and people are upset 🤷
Most of the teslas sold by hertz are beat up Uber cars.
Bought a 2023 EV6 GT with 2000 miles for $44k, list was $64k. I have been getting 270 mi range on full charge, compared to advertised 206mi.
Wanted to do this so bad, but couldn't give up the ventilated power seats. Probably going to get a GV60 instead.
That makes sense. I also have a Mach 1 with Recaros, so I was used to non power and non ventilated seats! 0:16
What service contract comes with Discord access ?
It's so hard to know what numbers are real though. MSRP is before destination and various dealer add-ons that might or might not be waived. Used car listing prices have apparently become pretty fake in recent years with many dealers having silent additional costs beyond what they listed. Many of the cars that appear to show high depreciation now were actually purchased during the peak demand mania - meaning we see a mix of the depreciation specific to a car versus the overall shift in the market posture.
Are you planning to review a Rivian sometime soon?
all lease cars
I leased a (HEAVILY) incentivized i3 back in 2015. After the lease was up the dealer eventually retailed it (CPO) for about $17,000 less than the residual.
Seems like that will also play out on EVs today.
Love this. And love you! Great honest consumer discussion.
if you absolutely need to do road trips the tesla is the only option. look for an updated model 3 that has black instead of chrome trim & door handles; that's when the 3 got the heat pump which makes a big diff for range in winter. The base aero wheels also ride the best IMO.
I have a 2021 mach-e premium. As far as I know, there was no battery replacement, there was a single control module though that needs a replacement on some, not all of them. All covered under warrenty.
literally all of the mach e needed to have busbars replace. not the whole battery, but the battery did have to come out for that to happen.
basically they cheaped out on the connection from the motor to the battery, and heavy acceleration would cause it to fuse together which meant the battery did have to get fixed. when they first had the recall they did an update to cut the output so it wouldn't brick cars but that also meant derating the horsepower/torque
@@bradhaines3142 that's what I just said, you're repeating what I already know. Why? I literally said that. It was the High Voltage Battery Junction Box (HVBJB) and it was not "literally all", it was some GT models.
The dude claimed batteries needed to be replaced and he knows that's not true.
I'm frankly shocked at the amount of HATE EV's get these days. I bought a Model S in late 2021 before the price increases and I think it's a good car. I wanted it to do road trips between central NC and Knoxville where my parents live, and it works great for that. 410 mile range means I can leave RTP and stop in Bristol TN with 120 miles of range left on the car, where there's a Supercharger that I can stop in at to get a charge. That's almost a 5 hour trip just to Bristol, and I need a break, so I can go grab some food and coffee, stop for the bathroom and by the time I get back to my car it's charged enough to get to Knoxville. In total it adds about 20-30 minutes to my trip vs a gas powered car. I also had free charging at work, although I've transitioned to WFH now so it's a bit of a moot point... point being, it costs me VERY little per mile to drive the car, and I'm in the correct climate for it.
My insurance is a little high, but it's considerably lower than my coworker's Tacoma. The biggest downside is NC's stupid tax laws, which apply a substantial tax on EV's because you're "not paying the gas taxes" or whatever. Problem is, this is flat taxed, not mileage-based like a gas car would be (since it's incorporated into your fuel costs) so even if you put 3000 miles a year on your car, you're still paying for 12000 "miles" worth of taxes. Other than that, I'd say Teslas are some of the few EV's on the market that are UNDERVALUED intrinsically because of the money they can save you.
Will, people don’t hate Teslas. People hate Tesla owners. They posses a cult like mentality. When they buy a Tesla they act like they have ascribed to the One True religion and they are now the “good people” and all those ignorant ICE car owners are the “bad people.”
Will, people don’t hate Teslas. They hate Tesla owners and their arrogance.
check the national wind chill map to see which areas of the country just learned they can't even charge an EV when it's -20 out. Or the EV owner whose car was totaled from a small parking lot fender bender. In many cases, that hate is earned.
People hate EVs because they don't want to be forced into something that doesn't suit their needs or preferences. If EVs existed independently of ICE cars without the looming threat of ICE becoming banned, there'd be considerably less animosity towards them.
We have just come from Ix. Many strange depreciations on Ix.
The Mini Cooper SE is a niche car, even more so than the ICE versions. Hard to find used because most people that buy them in the first place go into it knowing they want the experience and accept the shortcomings...myself included :)
Curious, have you guys driven the Polestar 2? I have become quite the brand fanboy, but now a little concerned with Volvo wanting out from a funding perspective.
They'll most likely sell their stake to Geely and do some sort of brand partnership, the cars are made in China anyway.
Seems like an underrated car. I really liked driving one as a Hertz rental. They are selling used with low miles for under $30K where I live.
Very interesting and applicable video. I had a 2019 Model 3 that for my purposes has been a great daily driver for the last 3.5 years. Luckily I purchased it for a good price back in early 2020 and was able to maintain reasonable value in the car to sell it. With some of these new incentives, am biting the bullet and making the leap to a new Model Y performance for a steal.
Still have my C7 GS to appease the car enthusiast/ICE gods.
Yep 2018 Model 3 owners here, still perfect and loving it at 112k miles. I feel bad for those who have to sell right now though for financial reasons.
Please release some of the unreleased videos. It's important for people to learn about poorly executed cars. I am interested in an EV for my next car and will more strongly consider a used one if the prices decrease even further.
I drove a subaru solterra (basically same as a bz4x) as a rental car, and it was just fine. Electric torque was fun, seats were comfy, but turning the a/c on dropped a full charge from 250 miles of range to 200, and I only got like 150 out of it before it started telling me to look for a charging station, so effective range is probably more like 170-180 at best. This was during early fall/late summer, so temps were in the 60s-70s. Definitely not cold enough for that to have been a factor
Personally I think the whole gas vs EV argument is silly. Both have their purpose and pros and cons, I wish the EV fanboys would understand why EVs don't make good sports cars, and I wish ICE fans would acknowledge the obvious benefits of EVs when it comes to daily drivers. I say this as an enthusiast myself, I've owned several manual transmission sports cars including my current c7 Vette. And I'm telling you, when it comes to daily drivers, a well-executed EV is simply better.
We have a Jaguar I-PACE EV as our daily driver. This replaced our 970 Panamera Turbo (both of which we bought used btw), a car that most ICE fans would probably agree is a pretty good daily driver in its own right. And I can honestly say the Jag is better in every single way. I don’t miss the Panamera one bit, neither does the wife. With the Jag, there’s no automatic transmission to get confused around town, never getting into a hot or cold car with preconditioning, there’s insane instant torque, the smoothness and refinement is unmatched (not only because no engine noise but also because the 1000 pound battery insulates you from road noise), the use of space is excellent (small on the outside and big on the inside because no engine), low center of gravity, naturally perfect weight distribution, being able to blow by anyone in traffic anytime, never being in the wrong gear, way more efficient, never being late because I had to stop for gas, no maintenance, quicker than most v8 family cars and more efficient than i-4 family cars, etc etc. And even though on paper the panamera was faster 0-60, in real life around town it’s not even close - the Jag would be gone before the panamera would even get into the right gear. Yes, it can be annoying on road trips - but it's not the end of the world unless you road trip all the time. It's the better car 364 days of the year, and the worse car 1 day of the year.
Having said all of that, like I said I'm an enthusiast, and we also have two sports cars (manual transmission c7 corvette stingray and an R56 Mini Cooper JCW, both of which I frequently use for road rallys and autocross), and I have no desire for either of those to be electric. The whole point of those cars is a visceral, loud, lightweight, connected experience with a manual transmission. I know there is a Boxster EV coming soon and I’m sure it’ll be great and smoke my c7 around any racetrack, but I have no interest at all, even as a current EV owner. Sports cars should be gas powered and manual IMO. So as I said, each has their purpose. I don’t see myself ever going back to gas for daily driver, and I don’t see myself ever going EV for sports cars.
My point is simple: EVs are better at some things, and gas cars are better at some things. "Taking a side" doesn't make sense, even for enthusiasts. Just acknowledge what the other is better at. EVs dont work for everyone (you need a place to charge and can't road trip all the time etc etc), but if it works in your lifestyle - try it before you knock it is all I'm saying. You might be surprised.
And like I said - just because a car is EV doesn't make it good. There are good EVs and bad ones, just like gas cars. For example, I' not a huge Tesla fan. But, the well-executed EVs are, in my opinion, the best daily drivers, if they fit into your lifestyle.
...and this is coming from someone that's currently on his 8th manual transmission sports car (Vette, Mini JCW, 350Z, etc etc). And to be clear - these are my favorite cars, not the I-PACE. But, I have a wife and a kid, and we need something that isn't manual and has a back seat. And in that category, the Jag is by far and away the best we've had.
Agree 100%! Our EV6 GT is a perfect daily. Have a new Mach 1 and a Viper GTS for my fun cars. An electric car as an only car for most people doesn’t make sense.
That’s a pretty epic garage you’ve got there!
EVs make great sports cars, they're just not good for people with noise/vibration/smell fetishes.
Fair point. I guess I always equated the two (ie to me, a Miata is a much better sports car than our I-PACE despite being much slower because it’s lightweight and available with a manual transmission and an open roof), but I suppose not everyone has the same criteria for sports car. EVs do tend to be very quick off the line and handle well relative to their size / shape due to lower center of gravity and all.
And on the topic of resale value, this video now seems pretty anti-EV bias. The video cites 2023 iX at $83k, I was curious so I looked at X5 M Competition and found this one for $83k, which has a higher brand new price (therefore more depreciation) than the EV equivalent: (turns out RUclips won’t allow links here but if you search auto trader you’ll see it)
I feel that due to "Range Anxiety" (which is a very real thing), the sweet spot for an EV that will appeal to the broadest range of consumers has to be somewhere north of 400 miles. As of right now, the charging infrastructure just isn't there, and this especially impacts people who plan to purchase and use an EV as their only means of transportation.
Basically this. my cx5 gives me 310 miles on a full tank. Once a 0F start gives me the same-ish mileage on one of these electrics at full charge, count me in! Until then I will let the influencers consume these things.
Toyota Camry hybrid. 675 mile range. It refuels anywhere in 3-4 minutes.
Funny, if you go back 10 years people said they needed to do 200 miles.
Then EVs could do that, so they changed it to 300 miles.
Now EVs can do 300 miles, they need to be able to do 400 miles.
I do wonder what will happen when they can do 400 miles...
@@drunkenhobo8020 The Tesla Cult members were adamant that nobody needed more than 200 miles range. It was fun to watch them spin out.
Not many people need to do more than 200 without stopping for restroom. The time it takes to pee, you are charged up again.
As long as the tech keeps advancing the old ones will keep dropping. I just hope they don’t see this drop as a reason to stop advancing.
great information. appreciate the video.