@@sonicmario64 I think the main appeal of a CRT, aside from that retro nostalgic authenticity, affordability & flawless latency, is the incredible blur free motion clarity, which simply put, doesn't exist on Modern 4K OLED & LED displays. Motion blur is the name of the game these days, and i can't stand it. We've gone completely backwards. The trick is to either use Black frame insertion or higher frame rates(120fps-144fps) beyond 60fps to reduce OLED motion blur by 50% or more. Problem is, BFI has too many drawbacks(Higher latency, too much brightness loss and flicker on whites), and 120-144fps isn't compatible with most games since they're total power hogs. :P Thinking about getting an AVS and pairing it with a smaller QD-OLED....But then I'd just be making a big sacrifice to motion Clarity, even latency AND my Wallet($1800 later) and the AVS can't replicate that smooth RF or AV CRT filter effect...Just scan lines, which also darken the image. On the flip side, QD-OLED has perfect blacks, high brightness, it's light, Thin, and makes the experience feel fresher and modern. Vhat' to do. :P
This is the only review of the AVS thus far that actually presents an honest and thorough picture of the strengths and weaknesses. Well done guys! This is THE definitive AVS review and should go a long way towards guiding the future improvements of both the AVS and the upcoming NT mini.
Your review convinced me I should get one! It was also first video I saw on your channel last year! Still need to get my RetroUSB AVS soon after I get my Super Nt and my PS4!
You've definitely made it quite tempting for me to buy one of these. Thanks for all of your hard work. Absolutely love this channel. Putting together the different video comparisons via different outputs alone makes this video invaluable.
I love my avs. Running around buying converter's to my old nes and snes hardware was wearing thin on my enjoyment of my old cartridges. And when playing games like duck hunt or freedom force its nice to go orginal hardware on a CRT. But sharing gamplay and just playing games with friends on my hd tv the AVS is a fantastic solution to my graphical and lag woes. Im very happy with the avs for the nes graphic and non lag capabilities. Next up the super nt. And the new sg nt are the next on my upgrades list so i can happily play my old carts like there sappose to he played. The collection is up on the self ready tk be played and the AVS gave my collection what it needed. No lag and near flawless pixle display.
I used to hate all hardware clones with a passion (especially emulators on a chip, dime a dozen clones) and even rolled my eyes when I saw that RetroUSB made their own clone hardware. But then I looked into FPGAs and how much more accurate they are than the trash $50 clones. Now I have an AVS and Super NT of my own.
@Doktor Roetker, I know all of this as well. I’m sure there was a reason for asking my question but that was two months ago and I don’t recall what that reason was. It’s possible I misread the original comment and maybe thought the person got the AVS and the Nt Mini, and asked why both? I don’t know at this point. I have an AVS now, myself, and would also have a Super Nt if Analogue would step up their replenishments.
Love this channel. Even though I am an emulator person I always enjoy learning about the hardware and technical side of all this stuff. It really helps dial in my emulation set up.
Well! According to RetroUSB's Facebook, they will be adding palette selections in an update, including Unsaturated-V6 from what I read. Very excited to see that come out.
I ordered an AVS last week because of this video. You guys are some of the only people on RUclips with pickier taste in AV quality than I have. I love your channel.
Definitely will get this one along the line. I just hope they make an updated version with higher resolution support. The Hi Def is way too expensive especially considering I get 25 percent import tax. I got my framemeister but I need a HD Nes fix.
That's the main reason I want to get a Framemeister, since it can handle multiple consoles with their original hardware. The main drawback is the older systems requiring internal mods, especially the NES.
Since i didn't get into Nintendo consoles until well into the SNES era, i don't feel compelled to hunt down a NES in good condition and then shell out another $100+ to get it HDMI ready (like i have for my SNES, N64, GBA, GameCube and Wii), so this looks like an excellent option, and i just ordered one. Great video as always!
Great review, guys! I especially like that you used the term "hardware simulation" to distinguish what the AVS does from something like the Retron 5. Early press on the system didn't do a lot to break down the difference between the AVS and other NES HDMI solutions. You knocked it out of the park, as always!
+Retro Tech Select [Try4ce] The usage of the term "hardware simulation" was thanks to Artemio Urbina's input! Originally I wrote "hardware emulation," not for lack of understanding of what it was doing, but I didn't know of another word to use. Artemio's advice helped make the distinction much more clear.
After watching this video, I think this is the best option for me right now. I want to stay as pure as possible for the least amount of money and I think this is the best option. Thanks!
Thumbs up guys!Really detailed,paced and relaxing.In case you get the chance to test the NES(& Co.)on a 4K TV remember that,apart from one Professional Sony 31" Oled Monitor,there are no native consumer 4K TV screens on sale.Horizontal resolution is slightly lower:3840x2160(UHD)vs 4096x2160(4K).Just so you know when looking in detail to what's happening to the pixels that the resolution might not be what you think.P.s.This 4K advertising(Sony in particular)of UHD just brings more confusion to standard understanding.Keep up the excellent work!And thanks again for your tests and videos.
[Try4ce] I think "UHD" is what we want to deal with, because 3840x2160 is what the standard video resolution will scale cleanly to. Of course, it's not actually 4K pixels wide, but I'd rather have an aspect ratio that matches earlier standards, then something that probably won't be useful for anything but PCs.
Out of all the ways to see NES games I prefer the RGB way using the Framemeister. The pixels look perfect in shape and has the light blur to smooth out the jaggies
Just ordered one of these to see what its all about. I own two NES's and needed an HDMI solution for NES game play and Analogues Nt is way out of my price range. Excellent review.
Hot damn, I need one of these things in my life (in gaming). Great look at this piece of hardware, fellas. I knew it looked promising, probably just what I need since I don't know where/how to RGB mod my Famicom.
I already have an original NES and NES PowerPak, but this thing makes me think I might buy it - mostly because of the color palette, scoreboard, automatic cheat codes and - the main thing for me - removing of sprites flickering!
That thing is impressive! But for me I use a Framemeister Mini for all my videos, and can really appreciate its versatility. But if I didn't have multiple game systems I was trying to record or see in HD I would totally get one of these. Another great episode guys!
gotta say im REALLY close to crying as i tried doing my own rgb mod on my top loader and i messed up nes motherboard in the process!! selling the rgb board which still works and saving up for this!! thanks for doing a review as a lot of the ones already on here seemed kind of newbish..
The more I watch this AVS system, the more I want to get it. And, since retroUSB recently added the "Unsaturated" color palette, the AVS looks like the best way to play NES on HDTVs without spending $400+
If I had the extra cash flow, I would for sure be picking one of these up along with a flash cart for my setup, but as it stands the best value for me is my homebrewed Wii with component cables.
Except, of course, these emulators were not "stolen", as in taken from their owners without their permission. The emulators were (and still are) given away freely by their authors, its just that Retron 5 creators didn't respect licensing terms, that is they have not released source code of their modified versions of the emulators they're using in Retron 5. But they have since done so and they're in the clear now. So, please, stop repeating incorrect statements about "stolen" emulators.
If the AVS had a composite out with lightgun support, i'd buy it in a heartbeat. My gameroom is USUALLY hooked through a flatscreen, but i have a CRT also, and if it could do it all i'd be sold..
This is a great episode, and will without a doubt help sell many units. I use an RGB modded toaster with a small PVM, but this device looks enticing to play on my large HDTV without having to buy a scaler.
The problem with focusing solely on the definition of the pixel is that it leaves aside the fact that the scan lines of the old tube screens were not only a limitation but were eventually used ingeniously as a tool, the visual aspect of the arts. they never had the intention of defining the pixels, on the contrary it was the design standard to achieve a smoother representation and that is where the Dithering effect is relevant but with the search for the "perfect pixel" it disappears and with it the very essence of the finish visual arts and its final aesthetics. someone think about dithering! 🤣
[Try4ce] I actually didn't notice, but I see it now. It may have had something to do with how I did the color correction, I experimented with punching it up a bit more.
Thanks for the review. I was hoping you'd cover this system as I've been on the fence about it and I knew you guys would provide a wealth of good information.
The picture is certainly impressive, and I like that its design is based on a prototype. But, the picture looks a just a _little_ too sharp, and ever so slightly oversaturated. Meanwhile, an RGB original appears to have more accurate colors and picture quality, with the latter appearing to be a bit blurry only due to being juxtaposed to the sharpness of AVS. Until the AVS is capable of RGB SCART, I think I'll stick to getting a modded NES-101. Another fantastic episode. You're easily my top resource for retro gaming, and have helped me tremendously on getting my channel started. Thank you.
[Try4ce] I noticed that last night too when I was putting together the last batch of comparisons. I don't think it's actually sharper than RGB+Framemeister, but the more contrasty color palette seems to give off a perception that it is sharper, perhaps. I just really love the Unsaturated RGB palette, it just says "NES" to me.
I got an Analogue NT with an everdrive N8, and a Super NT with a SD2SNES and OEM used controllers for both. Perfect setup! Now they need to make a Genesis and Neo Geo FPGA console.
McHenryGames I'm thinking more of this, but for the snes. sadly the snes is so complicated the only way to get really good display is resulting in very expensive hardware. and all the clones suck
Glad to hear you guys liked it and didn't find any major issues with it since I have one on the way! :) I was wondering a couple things... Does this work with the Famicom 3D Glasses? If the active shutter lenses have issues with HD. How about the Famicom controllers with microphones built-in. I've always wanted to try a few of those games (SMB, Zelda) with the Mic. Also, have you guys tried the 8bitdo Bluetooth wireless NES, SNES controllers and NES wireless receivers? I am curious if they feel like the real Nintendo pads. I am also curious if the AVS would have enough power through its USB power to handle 4 receivers in the ports.
[Try4ce] Technically it sort of works with the 3D glasses. the issue is that they will most likely not be synced up with your HDTV. The other issue is that HDTVs tend to have more "persistence of vision" than a CRT, meaning that ghosting between the alternating fields will screw with the effect as well. It's theoretically possible that it could work OK, but it is unlikely. As for the mics, it does not support them. After all, I believe all of those controllers are hardwired to the original Famicom, I don't think there are standalone versions (regardless, it was confirmed to us that you can't use the mic features). The Retro Receiver does indeed work with the AVS. I personally really like the controllers a lot, and think they feel really authentic. My only complaint is that the buttons feel a bit clickier than I'm used to, but otherwise they're really spot-on. I don't know if multiple receivers pull extra power, but it did work with one, at least. It's worth noting that retroUSB is making their own wireless controller with a similar receiver, but it's not Bluetooth.
Hey, thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. I definitely appreciate it and value your opinions as well. It's too bad about the mic support, but it's definitely not a deal breaker for me. Ever since seeing the article in Game Players #1 (May '89) on how the Famicom players can yell into the controller mic while playing SMB to earn bonus points. :P I actually watched your stream with the 8Bitdo controller and Mega Man 2.. very entertaining. :) I ordered the SNES pad and 2 NES receivers for now. I'll always love the NES pad, but realistically I think the SNES pad might be a bit easier on the palms with extended play times. I asked Brian at RetroUSB if it would be possible to plug 4 NES receivers into the AVS and I got a "maybe" type of answer... so nothing definitive. I'm kind of all or nothing when it comes to wireless dongles in the controller ports. I think it's my OCD kicking in or something. I was the same way with the WaveBird.. I had to have 4 receivers plugged into the front of it. I may just give it a try and see for myself.
Can't wait to see the review of the miniNES, since I don't own any carts, its compact and uses a Wii remote port with an included controllers and uses a HDMI output it looks like a pretty good device for the price all considered. Hopefully it's better than the VC's video output though seeing how dark that Mario 3 footage looked.
Now that's a system I'd like to test out. I've spend the past 9 years looking at a variety of hardware clones and I've got bored of seeing the same flawed clone chipsets over and over again in a different box. It would be nice to test something different for a change.
You know, one thing I don’t get about the NES is the not speaking RGB thing. Surely the data on a cartridge would have to point to a specific colour to make the information look right? And surely the palette from the NES Mini is a good option? I’m also shocked it took so long for someone to just use a colour picker on a composite video signal.
[Try4ce] Composite is not an RGB color space. The NES only speaks composite, essentially. As for the details of how composite is interpreted by a CRT, that I don't quite know much about.
@4:40 You could make the same argument for hardware approximation for machines like the retroUBS AVS. It doesn't explain why hardware approximation of hardware is more accurate than the software solution.
I've been seeing some broken USB Mini jack ports showing up lately. So be careful when inserting and removing the cable! ... ... Brian is working on a retrofitted fix for these. It will also be fixed on the second batch of AVS systems.
Ahhh if they'd have made it look like a front load nes I would have been sold. The sprite limit doubler is the real kicker for me. I wonder if one could gut this thing and reshell it into an nes.
Have you noticed that some games just don't work on this system? The ones with green stripes on the pins. supposedly the cartridge doesn't go into the connector far enough to make contact on the AVS. This keeps about 10% of NES carts from working on it. Again, Brian at RetroUSB is aware of the problem and will be sending out replacement connectors to those who need them. it seems like he knew about the problem a couple of years ago and addressed it, but somewhere along the line he reverted back to the shorter pin connector.
[Try4ce] Some people have mentioned issues to us about Blaster Master. I had no problem. I did, however, have problems with Bionic Commando, which was clean and works fine in my NES. I borrowed a friend's copy to double-check, and his worked without issue.
I've come across around 12 carts which work perfectly on my original front loader NES as well as the top loader which don't work at all on the AVS. I believe it's because of the pins not reaching the cartridge connector. So hopefully Brian can get the "new & improved" cartridge connector to us soon. Both the cartridge connector as well as the breaking USB mini port are being reworked for the revision 2 AVS. Sometimes it's not always good to be an early adopter, but at least he's replacing the systems wkth the broken USB and sending out new parts free of charge. Or so he's promised.
Hopefully, RetroUSB will release an AVS 2 one day 'with' the following > Smaller Size - (Similar to Analogue's Super Nt & Mega Sg.) Top Loading Cart eject button A console Power ON/OFF controller button combination - (like Down+B+A, or Start+Select.) A CRT 'Softness' Depth Slider - (This is crucial, and a big mistake not having it with AVS in the first place.) Also, taking off the Lid makes the AVS look so much better, since you're exposing that awesome NES cart cover art, plus you could always just get a RetroTINK4K and use it's CRT softness filter settings, and of course it's internal 60hz Black frame insertion to cut down 50% of OLED motion blur, in combination with it's HDR to SDR brightness boosting trick, to compensate for the 50% brightness drop from it's BFI.
I this played SNES/SFC games I would have pre-ordered it. Every now and then I come across something that my Retron 5 won't play so I'd love to have something like that on-hand for those cases.
all I want is a console I can hook up to my HDTV that has all 678 NTSC games (700+ if you include the unlicensed games) built in. No cartridges needed. Is that too much to ask for?
[Try4ce] Everdrives are cartridges in the shape of the system that they are meant to be played on, and they have an SD card slot. You can load any ROM or ROM hack to play it on original hardware.
[Try4ce] Every game cartridge has a ROM inside. That's how the game itself is burned to the cartridge. ROMs cannot be written into something else once it has something on it. An Everdrive takes the ROM rips that you play on emulators, and loads it into RAM that is on the Everdrive. The console then treats that RAM just like a ROM. In other words, yes it is for original consoles, or a console that acts like one, like the AVS. The RetroN 5, actually can NOT use Everdrives. They only work on consoles that work like the real thing, not emulators.
Great video as of usual guys! I was very curious about this device and you explained it well. I think for the time being I will stick with my HDMI HiDef original NES though.
I have an NES hooked up to a Sony CRT via composite and the background in Super Mario Bros is more light blue than light purple. Also, the bricks color looks closer to the AVS than RGB.
Slowly working my way through the whole masterclass. :D I know this is pretty old and things may/will have changed by now. But I do like the look of this AVS.
You know what looks good on a modern TV? Nestopia running on a TV-connected PC. Combine with either an original controller via adapter or a new USB controller (buyer beware - quality can suck), and you're good to go. Otherwise just get a CRT and play those games the proper way on an unmodified NES or Famicom.
[Try4ce] One of the most exciting things about the upcoming Analogue Nt Mini is that it does both HDMI and 240p RGB simultaneously. But it also costs A LOT more money.
I'm in a pickle, I have a PVM 2530 that I play most everything on and also have a xrgb mini that I use every so often. If I sold my xrgb for the NT mini the PVM would probably die the next day haha.
Agree wish it had more than one output type, ideally RGB. But it does do a lot for the price, I like that it has a famicom cartridge slot and expansion port.
Yep. I wonder just how long it'll take to be cracked? If there's superfluous memory built in, it wouldn't need to be much to support the full NES library.
You can play every NES, SNES, Genesis and many other systems' games on a PC from 1999. Go buy a junk PC for $20 and you can have an NES mini for less headache and no modding. I don't understand why so many people want the NES Mini to support more games or be moddable. Just for the NES shell? LOL! Dumb.
It's still emulating. They're using software to emulate and putting it in a plastic shell made in China... So because Nintendo is licensing it as "official", that's the draw? Speaking of emulation, their virtual console does it pretty poorly. It doesn't give me much hope for the NES mini.
I never tire of how much excellent technical info you guys cram into every episode!
ditto
I have absolutely no need for one of these. But I want one anyway...
Same here, and I'm actually fine with just playing my retro games on an FC Twin and/or Retron 3. :)
@@sonicmario64
I think the main appeal of a CRT, aside from that retro nostalgic authenticity, affordability & flawless latency, is the incredible blur free motion clarity, which simply put, doesn't exist on Modern 4K OLED & LED displays. Motion blur is the name of the game these days, and i can't stand it. We've gone completely backwards.
The trick is to either use Black frame insertion or higher frame rates(120fps-144fps) beyond 60fps to reduce OLED motion blur by 50% or more. Problem is, BFI has too many drawbacks(Higher latency, too much brightness loss and flicker on whites), and 120-144fps isn't compatible with most games since they're total power hogs. :P
Thinking about getting an AVS and pairing it with a smaller QD-OLED....But then I'd just be making a big sacrifice to motion Clarity, even latency AND my Wallet($1800 later) and the AVS can't replicate that smooth RF or AV CRT filter effect...Just scan lines, which also darken the image. On the flip side, QD-OLED has perfect blacks, high brightness, it's light, Thin, and makes the experience feel fresher and modern. Vhat' to do. :P
This is the only review of the AVS thus far that actually presents an honest and thorough picture of the strengths and weaknesses. Well done guys! This is THE definitive AVS review and should go a long way towards guiding the future improvements of both the AVS and the upcoming NT mini.
Eat your heart out, Retro VGS! This thing has a *working* FPGA running games.
LOL
Get out of here rich
Carl Siemens I think you ment to say colleco scammellon.
Carl Siemens I like your icon
Carl Siemens Retro VGS? Who are they?
Really like the intro/outro music on this channel.
It is an absolute travesty that you guys only have 35,XXX subscribers. This is easily the best gaming channel on RUclips. Kudos to you, gentlemen.
This channel is a treasure. I can't wait for your NES Classic Mini review ^_^
I love mine. It kicks ass! Great work as always gents.
Hey man, your review of this was great too!
Your review convinced me I should get one! It was also first video I saw on your channel last year! Still need to get my RetroUSB AVS soon after I get my Super Nt and my PS4!
Is your avs still holdin up??im interested in buyin one..
It's a great console.. Unfortunately the last firmware update broke compatibility with Gradius 2; I'm hoping it gets fixed in the future.
Hey man thanks for reporting on all that cool stuff
You've definitely made it quite tempting for me to buy one of these.
Thanks for all of your hard work. Absolutely love this channel. Putting together the different video comparisons via different outputs alone makes this video invaluable.
You guys always get the technical details and explain them in such an easy to understand way. Thank you. Keep up the great work.
I'm such a geek. I've watched this 3 times as I eagerly await my AVS! Hehehe
I did the same thing! lol
Just wanna say that you guys are doing a wonderful job. The show is very technical, fun and enjoyable to watch. Thank you.
I love my avs. Running around buying converter's to my old nes and snes hardware was wearing thin on my enjoyment of my old cartridges.
And when playing games like duck hunt or freedom force its nice to go orginal hardware on a CRT.
But sharing gamplay and just playing games with friends on my hd tv the AVS is a fantastic solution to my graphical and lag woes.
Im very happy with the avs for the nes graphic and non lag capabilities.
Next up the super nt. And the new sg nt are the next on my upgrades list so i can happily play my old carts like there sappose to he played. The collection is up on the self ready tk be played and the AVS gave my collection what it needed. No lag and near flawless pixle display.
I used to hate all hardware clones with a passion (especially emulators on a chip, dime a dozen clones) and even rolled my eyes when I saw that RetroUSB made their own clone hardware.
But then I looked into FPGAs and how much more accurate they are than the trash $50 clones. Now I have an AVS and Super NT of my own.
What inspired you to go with both?
@@SumDumGy the super NT is a SNES FPGA, the AVS a NES FPGA
@Dokter Roetker, I know.
@@SumDumGy oh okay. Wel having both is logical then isn't it, the one plays NES games and the other SNES.
@Doktor Roetker, I know all of this as well. I’m sure there was a reason for asking my question but that was two months ago and I don’t recall what that reason was. It’s possible I misread the original comment and maybe thought the person got the AVS and the Nt Mini, and asked why both? I don’t know at this point.
I have an AVS now, myself, and would also have a Super Nt if Analogue would step up their replenishments.
Love this channel. Even though I am an emulator person I always enjoy learning about the hardware and technical side of all this stuff. It really helps dial in my emulation set up.
Hey, whatever method works for you, just as long as more people get to enjoy some of the classics
I like the brighter color palette of the AVS, it's close enough to accurate and it makes Kirby's Adventure really shine, among other games
You guys put so much work in to this. you deserve way more views!
Well! According to RetroUSB's Facebook, they will be adding palette selections in an update, including Unsaturated-V6 from what I read. Very excited to see that come out.
you can try it now by downloading the v1.20b1 AVS firmware from retrousb.com/downloads !
Just tried it. Video palettes work, but it creates errors in the audio performance, so I rolled back to 1.10
Have they added it yet?
I ordered an AVS last week because of this video. You guys are some of the only people on RUclips with pickier taste in AV quality than I have. I love your channel.
For something almost 1/3 of the price of an nt Mini, this seems like a great option.
I would kill for an HDMI FPGA Neo Geo AES/MVS system
Definitely will get this one along the line. I just hope they make an updated version with higher resolution support. The Hi Def is way too expensive especially considering I get 25 percent import tax. I got my framemeister but I need a HD Nes fix.
I never had the money for an Analog NT Mini, but the AVS is really good and does exactly what I want.
Thanks for the Blaster Master! Can never have enough of that BM music.
It's cheaper than buying a real NES and a framemeister
Unless you have other 240p consoles that you want high-quality video out of.
That's the main reason I want to get a Framemeister, since it can handle multiple consoles with their original hardware. The main drawback is the older systems requiring internal mods, especially the NES.
I rather play a Modified version of the Original Famicom with longer cords.
the framemeister is not a 370 dollars? the console is 185
Or just play on an old CRT and not worry about making stuff work right for modern tech.
By far one of the best channels on RUclips! Solid presenting and solid information, thanks a lot
Since i didn't get into Nintendo consoles until well into the SNES era, i don't feel compelled to hunt down a NES in good condition and then shell out another $100+ to get it HDMI ready (like i have for my SNES, N64, GBA, GameCube and Wii), so this looks like an excellent option, and i just ordered one. Great video as always!
Already have several NES but I cannot wait to get my AVS order, the waiting is killing me! BTW I absolutely love your channel!
Great review, guys! I especially like that you used the term "hardware simulation" to distinguish what the AVS does from something like the Retron 5. Early press on the system didn't do a lot to break down the difference between the AVS and other NES HDMI solutions. You knocked it out of the park, as always!
+Retro Tech Select [Try4ce] The usage of the term "hardware simulation" was thanks to Artemio Urbina's input! Originally I wrote "hardware emulation," not for lack of understanding of what it was doing, but I didn't know of another word to use. Artemio's advice helped make the distinction much more clear.
After watching this video, I think this is the best option for me right now. I want to stay as pure as possible for the least amount of money and I think this is the best option. Thanks!
Both this and Analogue's efforts have been so much better than what the Retron 5 could do. 👍
Wish you came out with more videos! By far the best production quality out there in retro gaming.
That Ryu Hyabusa theme! Love the video, great work.
Thumbs up guys!Really detailed,paced and relaxing.In case you get the chance to test the NES(& Co.)on a 4K TV remember that,apart from one Professional Sony 31" Oled Monitor,there are no native consumer 4K TV screens on sale.Horizontal resolution is slightly lower:3840x2160(UHD)vs 4096x2160(4K).Just so you know when looking in detail to what's happening to the pixels that the resolution might not be what you think.P.s.This 4K advertising(Sony in particular)of UHD just brings more confusion to standard understanding.Keep up the excellent work!And thanks again for your tests and videos.
[Try4ce] I think "UHD" is what we want to deal with, because 3840x2160 is what the standard video resolution will scale cleanly to. Of course, it's not actually 4K pixels wide, but I'd rather have an aspect ratio that matches earlier standards, then something that probably won't be useful for anything but PCs.
Wow! I have an AVS and I love it. Yall's videos are great 👍.
Out of all the ways to see NES games I prefer the RGB way using the Framemeister. The pixels look perfect in shape and has the light blur to smooth out the jaggies
Going to have to support this project so that more like it are successful.
Just ordered one of these to see what its all about. I own two NES's and needed an HDMI solution for NES game play and Analogues Nt is way out of my price range. Excellent review.
Hot damn, I need one of these things in my life (in gaming). Great look at this piece of hardware, fellas. I knew it looked promising, probably just what I need since I don't know where/how to RGB mod my Famicom.
I already have an original NES and NES PowerPak, but this thing makes me think I might buy it - mostly because of the color palette, scoreboard, automatic cheat codes and - the main thing for me - removing of sprites flickering!
I've been waiting all week for this video.
I have a Retro USB AVS and its a great HD solution to playing NES games on an HD television. Games look beautiful how they should.
Just ordered one of these. Can't wait to experience what I couldn't as a kid.
That thing is impressive! But for me I use a Framemeister Mini for all my videos, and can really appreciate its versatility. But if I didn't have multiple game systems I was trying to record or see in HD I would totally get one of these. Another great episode guys!
gotta say im REALLY close to crying as i tried doing my own rgb mod on my top loader and i messed up nes motherboard in the process!! selling the rgb board which still works and saving up for this!! thanks for doing a review as a lot of the ones already on here seemed kind of newbish..
I've been wanting an AVS for a while now. Much like you, I'd love to see something like that for other consoles, especially the SNES or N64.
The more I watch this AVS system, the more I want to get it. And, since retroUSB recently added the "Unsaturated" color palette, the AVS looks like the best way to play NES on HDTVs without spending $400+
If I had the extra cash flow, I would for sure be picking one of these up along with a flash cart for my setup, but as it stands the best value for me is my homebrewed Wii with component cables.
So as I see it
Real Hardware > FPGA Hardware > High end (low level) Emu (like BNES or higan) > Low End Emu > Clone Console > Retron 5
Retron 5 used emulators stolen from their makers and used without permission. Plus the Retron 5 has really poor build quality.
Except, of course, these emulators were not "stolen", as in taken from their owners without their permission.
The emulators were (and still are) given away freely by their authors, its just that Retron 5 creators didn't respect licensing terms, that is they have not released source code of their modified versions of the emulators they're using in Retron 5.
But they have since done so and they're in the clear now.
So, please, stop repeating incorrect statements about "stolen" emulators.
Rock > RetroN 5
I already have an NES and a Framemeister, so I guess I'll do the RGB mod on my NES. However, the AVS NES is cool! Thanks for the video on it.
If the AVS had a composite out with lightgun support, i'd buy it in a heartbeat. My gameroom is USUALLY hooked through a flatscreen, but i have a CRT also, and if it could do it all i'd be sold..
This is a great episode, and will without a doubt help sell many units. I use an RGB modded toaster with a small PVM, but this device looks enticing to play on my large HDTV without having to buy a scaler.
The problem with focusing solely on the definition of the pixel is that it leaves aside the fact that the scan lines of the old tube screens were not only a limitation but were eventually used ingeniously as a tool, the visual aspect of the arts. they never had the intention of defining the pixels, on the contrary it was the design standard to achieve a smoother representation and that is where the Dithering effect is relevant but with the search for the "perfect pixel" it disappears and with it the very essence of the finish visual arts and its final aesthetics.
someone think about dithering! 🤣
Coury's color keying was done kinda poorly. You can kinda see a green line around his head. Despite that, great video like always :)
[Try4ce] I actually didn't notice, but I see it now. It may have had something to do with how I did the color correction, I experimented with punching it up a bit more.
AVS plus HDMI to AV plus a CRT or PVM = working lightgun and most authentic possible NES experience
TheKHfan358over3d do you have test it out that set up ?
This is a subject I am really well read up on, and I still appreciated your well thought out video. Great job!
Thanks for the review. I was hoping you'd cover this system as I've been on the fence about it and I knew you guys would provide a wealth of good information.
*subscribed* thank you for this video, this is EXACTLY the information I was looking for. Can't wait to binge on all the other videos!
Is it just me or does the AVS look better than the Analogue NT?
retroUSB AVS looks like shit...
I agree, the AVS looks like an actuall NES clone and not some chunk of metal.
The picture is certainly impressive, and I like that its design is based on a prototype. But, the picture looks a just a _little_ too sharp, and ever so slightly oversaturated. Meanwhile, an RGB original appears to have more accurate colors and picture quality, with the latter appearing to be a bit blurry only due to being juxtaposed to the sharpness of AVS. Until the AVS is capable of RGB SCART, I think I'll stick to getting a modded NES-101.
Another fantastic episode. You're easily my top resource for retro gaming, and have helped me tremendously on getting my channel started. Thank you.
[Try4ce] I noticed that last night too when I was putting together the last batch of comparisons. I don't think it's actually sharper than RGB+Framemeister, but the more contrasty color palette seems to give off a perception that it is sharper, perhaps. I just really love the Unsaturated RGB palette, it just says "NES" to me.
I wholeheartedly agree. Unsaturated looks absolutely STUNNING, and it'll be one the first things I'll implement once I get my NES.
Thanks for another fantastic episode!
I got an Analogue NT with an everdrive N8, and a Super NT with a SD2SNES and OEM used controllers for both. Perfect setup! Now they need to make a Genesis and Neo Geo FPGA console.
Thanks a lot for this video, been looking for a NES and this looks like the best option for me!
Bring on the 16bit versions already!!! I loved the Nes but I loved the 16 bit gens soooooo much more!!!
i hope more of these kind of consoles are made in the future
McHenryGames I'm thinking more of this, but for the snes.
sadly the snes is so complicated the only way to get really good display is resulting in very expensive hardware. and all the clones suck
Great overview of the console.
great review! I pre-ordered mine, cant wait to get it and test it out
Glad to hear you guys liked it and didn't find any major issues with it since I have one on the way! :)
I was wondering a couple things...
Does this work with the Famicom 3D Glasses? If the active shutter lenses have issues with HD. How about the Famicom controllers with microphones built-in. I've always wanted to try a few of those games (SMB, Zelda) with the Mic.
Also, have you guys tried the 8bitdo Bluetooth wireless NES, SNES controllers and NES wireless receivers? I am curious if they feel like the real Nintendo pads. I am also curious if the AVS would have enough power through its USB power to handle 4 receivers in the ports.
[Try4ce] Technically it sort of works with the 3D glasses. the issue is that they will most likely not be synced up with your HDTV. The other issue is that HDTVs tend to have more "persistence of vision" than a CRT, meaning that ghosting between the alternating fields will screw with the effect as well. It's theoretically possible that it could work OK, but it is unlikely.
As for the mics, it does not support them. After all, I believe all of those controllers are hardwired to the original Famicom, I don't think there are standalone versions (regardless, it was confirmed to us that you can't use the mic features).
The Retro Receiver does indeed work with the AVS. I personally really like the controllers a lot, and think they feel really authentic. My only complaint is that the buttons feel a bit clickier than I'm used to, but otherwise they're really spot-on. I don't know if multiple receivers pull extra power, but it did work with one, at least. It's worth noting that retroUSB is making their own wireless controller with a similar receiver, but it's not Bluetooth.
Hey, thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. I definitely appreciate it and value your opinions as well.
It's too bad about the mic support, but it's definitely not a deal breaker for me. Ever since seeing the article in Game Players #1 (May '89) on how the Famicom players can yell into the controller mic while playing SMB to earn bonus points. :P
I actually watched your stream with the 8Bitdo controller and Mega Man 2.. very entertaining. :)
I ordered the SNES pad and 2 NES receivers for now. I'll always love the NES pad, but realistically I think the SNES pad might be a bit easier on the palms with extended play times. I asked Brian at RetroUSB if it would be possible to plug 4 NES receivers into the AVS and I got a "maybe" type of answer... so nothing definitive.
I'm kind of all or nothing when it comes to wireless dongles in the controller ports. I think it's my OCD kicking in or something. I was the same way with the WaveBird.. I had to have 4 receivers plugged into the front of it. I may just give it a try and see for myself.
i didn't grow up with an NES, but i gotta admit it does tempt me a bit.
If I just want a dedicated NES cartridge-supporting system, RetroUSB's upcoming portable NES is the only thing that has my interest.
Can't wait to see the review of the miniNES, since I don't own any carts, its compact and uses a Wii remote port with an included controllers and uses a HDMI output it looks like a pretty good device for the price all considered. Hopefully it's better than the VC's video output though seeing how dark that Mario 3 footage looked.
confirmed by Nintendo. the brightness, sharpness and color have been fixed. no details yet on resolution output.
Now that's a system I'd like to test out. I've spend the past 9 years looking at a variety of hardware clones and I've got bored of seeing the same flawed clone chipsets over and over again in a different box. It would be nice to test something different for a change.
You know, one thing I don’t get about the NES is the not speaking RGB thing. Surely the data on a cartridge would have to point to a specific colour to make the information look right? And surely the palette from the NES Mini is a good option?
I’m also shocked it took so long for someone to just use a colour picker on a composite video signal.
[Try4ce] Composite is not an RGB color space. The NES only speaks composite, essentially. As for the details of how composite is interpreted by a CRT, that I don't quite know much about.
wow.. awesome review guys... always love your episodes.. so much great info!
This looks like one of those early clone consoles. NES-styled with its own look and feel.
Great series . Keep up the good work.
Thanks so much! You guys have delivered another great episode!
@4:40 You could make the same argument for hardware approximation for machines like the retroUBS AVS. It doesn't explain why hardware approximation of hardware is more accurate than the software solution.
2:54 The New Zealand Story a.k.a. Kiwi Kraze: A Bird Brained Adventure!
I play my NES games on a sofrmodded Wii running in 240p component. It looks and plays excellent.
As always, excellent video. Keep up the great work.
I've been seeing some broken USB Mini jack ports showing up lately. So be careful when inserting and removing the cable! ... ... Brian is working on a retrofitted fix for these. It will also be fixed on the second batch of AVS systems.
When is the second batch out? I ordered my AVS on Amazon Sunday and it just shipped.
always good! Can't wait to see the next episode
Ahhh if they'd have made it look like a front load nes I would have been sold. The sprite limit doubler is the real kicker for me. I wonder if one could gut this thing and reshell it into an nes.
Have you noticed that some games just don't work on this system? The ones with green stripes on the pins. supposedly the cartridge doesn't go into the connector far enough to make contact on the AVS. This keeps about 10% of NES carts from working on it. Again, Brian at RetroUSB is aware of the problem and will be sending out replacement connectors to those who need them. it seems like he knew about the problem a couple of years ago and addressed it, but somewhere along the line he reverted back to the shorter pin connector.
[Try4ce] Some people have mentioned issues to us about Blaster Master. I had no problem. I did, however, have problems with Bionic Commando, which was clean and works fine in my NES. I borrowed a friend's copy to double-check, and his worked without issue.
I've come across around 12 carts which work perfectly on my original front loader NES as well as the top loader which don't work at all on the AVS.
I believe it's because of the pins not reaching the cartridge connector. So hopefully Brian can get the "new & improved" cartridge connector to us soon.
Both the cartridge connector as well as the breaking USB mini port are being reworked for the revision 2 AVS.
Sometimes it's not always good to be an early adopter, but at least he's replacing the systems wkth the broken USB and sending out new parts free of charge. Or so he's promised.
Hopefully, RetroUSB will release an AVS 2 one day 'with' the following >
Smaller Size - (Similar to Analogue's Super Nt & Mega Sg.)
Top Loading
Cart eject button
A console Power ON/OFF controller button combination - (like Down+B+A, or Start+Select.)
A CRT 'Softness' Depth Slider - (This is crucial, and a big mistake not having it with AVS in the first place.)
Also, taking off the Lid makes the AVS look so much better, since you're exposing that awesome NES cart cover art, plus you could always just get a RetroTINK4K and use it's CRT softness filter settings, and of course it's internal 60hz Black frame insertion to cut down 50% of OLED motion blur, in combination with it's HDR to SDR brightness boosting trick, to compensate for the 50% brightness drop from it's BFI.
Do you own one?
I this played SNES/SFC games I would have pre-ordered it. Every now and then I come across something that my Retron 5 won't play so I'd love to have something like that on-hand for those cases.
all I want is a console I can hook up to my HDTV that has all 678 NTSC games (700+ if you include the unlicensed games) built in. No cartridges needed. Is that too much to ask for?
[Try4ce] Well, this plus an Everdrive is that, basically.
cool, what's everdrive?
[Try4ce] Everdrives are cartridges in the shape of the system that they are meant to be played on, and they have an SD card slot. You can load any ROM or ROM hack to play it on original hardware.
[Try4ce] Every game cartridge has a ROM inside. That's how the game itself is burned to the cartridge. ROMs cannot be written into something else once it has something on it. An Everdrive takes the ROM rips that you play on emulators, and loads it into RAM that is on the Everdrive. The console then treats that RAM just like a ROM. In other words, yes it is for original consoles, or a console that acts like one, like the AVS. The RetroN 5, actually can NOT use Everdrives. They only work on consoles that work like the real thing, not emulators.
AWESOme! I want one!
Great video as of usual guys! I was very curious about this device and you explained it well. I think for the time being I will stick with my HDMI HiDef original NES though.
I have an NES hooked up to a Sony CRT via composite and the background in Super Mario Bros is more light blue than light purple. Also, the bricks color looks closer to the AVS than RGB.
I finally got one! So glad I did, it's great. 👍👍
Slowly working my way through the whole masterclass. :D I know this is pretty old and things may/will have changed by now. But I do like the look of this AVS.
[Try4ce] The AVS is still an excellent system! Interpolation was added in a firmware update after this video was made, so it's even better now!
Most people think NTSC is 640x480, where the real cathode ray write is 512x512, meaning the problems with problem the width of pixels.
I TURNED IT UP at the Ninja Gaiden fight music!! YEAH!!
You know what looks good on a modern TV? Nestopia running on a TV-connected PC. Combine with either an original controller via adapter or a new USB controller (buyer beware - quality can suck), and you're good to go. Otherwise just get a CRT and play those games the proper way on an unmodified NES or Famicom.
Definitivelly I want it!!! Very Cool Nes
You guys made a new Episode already?!
I think the AVS NES should have Eject buttons for the Cartridge Slots. And I do want a Famicom Design.
I just wish it had RGB out as well.
[Try4ce] One of the most exciting things about the upcoming Analogue Nt Mini is that it does both HDMI and 240p RGB simultaneously. But it also costs A LOT more money.
I'm in a pickle, I have a PVM 2530 that I play most everything on and also have a xrgb mini that I use every so often. If I sold my xrgb for the NT mini the PVM would probably die the next day haha.
+wafflesports lmk if you plan to sell the framemeister
^ Back to the depths of mediocrity heathen.
Agree wish it had more than one output type, ideally RGB. But it does do a lot for the price, I like that it has a famicom cartridge slot and expansion port.
Anyone interested in this retro usb is taking pre orders now!!!! They say it ships late summer 2021.
I finally got my AVS I ordered 2 years ago 😂
That's It, I'm Getting One.
Surely some mad scientists will find a way to play other games on the NES Classic Mini soon after it's released
yup, i will wait til someone uses it to modify and implement an SD reader inside it. i KNOW this will happen.
Yep. I wonder just how long it'll take to be cracked? If there's superfluous memory built in, it wouldn't need to be much to support the full NES library.
You can play every NES, SNES, Genesis and many other systems' games on a PC from 1999. Go buy a junk PC for $20 and you can have an NES mini for less headache and no modding. I don't understand why so many people want the NES Mini to support more games or be moddable. Just for the NES shell? LOL! Dumb.
+TooBokoo Probably because it's actual Nintendo hardware.
It's still emulating. They're using software to emulate and putting it in a plastic shell made in China... So because Nintendo is licensing it as "official", that's the draw?
Speaking of emulation, their virtual console does it pretty poorly. It doesn't give me much hope for the NES mini.