RetroUSB AVS Review - Play Your Old Nintendo (NES) Games on an HD TV - NES Classic Mini Alternative
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- Опубликовано: 7 июл 2024
- Buy it on Amazon - lon.tv/rfvb1 (affiliate link) - Might be priced lower at retrousb.com - See 720p 60fps footage here: lon.tv/avsfootage - And my playlist for additional updates: lon.tv/avs - The AVS from RetroUSB is a very accurate NES & Famicom clone system that plays most if not all original game cartridges! See more retro: lon.tv/retro and subscribe! lon.tv/s - video index below:
VIDEO INDEX:
01:27 - Hardware overview
05:23 - Gameplay - Batman (more footage at lon.tv/avsfootage)
07:06 - Zelda and battery backup cartridge compatibility
07:43 - Cheat codes / Game Genie compatibility
09:23 - Input options
10:30 - Video configuration
12:25 - Scanline configuration
14:25 - Flash cartridge compatibility - PowerPak demonstrated
15:55 - Gameplay - Megaman 2 footage
16:28 - Light gun / zapper / ROB incompatibility
16:54 - Retro USB published launch titles
17:52 - Conclusion and final thoughts
Find it at retrousb.com
This is likely one of the most compatible and accurate NES clones on the market. It's powered by an FPGA chip allowing the device to very closely mimic the hardware on an actual Nintendo Entertainment System or Famicom.
It outputs at 60fps at 720p and the output is amazing. Excellent image quality, excellent sound, and zero input lag. It works with original controllers.
This might be a good alternative for those looking for an alternative to the NES Classic Edition / NES Mini. This runs off the original NES cartridges.
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Great Review! I had the honor of beta testing the AVS back in 2013 and had an amazing time experimenting with it and using the scoreboard. A lot of love went into the design and production of this console. I was lucky enough to get one of the LEE versions of the console and can't wait to start playing again. I think the scoreboard was the coolest feature of the console, and I didn't see you mention this so I wanted to add that the scoreboard will not upload a score if any Game Genie codes are being used. This is a nice feature which means score will be legit. :)
Watched a fair few reviews for this online now and I have to say this is by FAR the most comprehensive, informative review available. Thank you for making this, it has been enormously helpful, and I appreciate your perspective.
It's cool they priced it almost exactly what an NES originally retailed for.
Adjusted to inflation, this is the same price as a NES base set.
I'm glad that you took the time to explain how this differs from software emulators like the Retron 5. Quite refreshing!
Your reviews are so comprehensive!! Love it!! I am sold on this thing
Great review! I really appreciated the part where you showed viewers there is no input lag, that's incredibly cool.
Awesome!! Looks like an actual Nes revision! I want one!
Best review of this that I've seen, an actual in depth overview and just a bunch of gameplay footage with an unboxing that seemed more like an ad than a review. Would love to see that interview if you can get it; especially would like to hear from the person or people behind the actual FPGA instead of whoever owns the company.
RetroUSB has been doing homebrew games for a while now close to a decade at this point. Retro AVS is based on the real hardware and will play all NES games. It is no ordinary clone, it is a 1:1 clone. It is about time someone made a 1:1 clone, I knew it could be done since the tech is 30 years old. Those other clone consoles are just being cheap and taking the easy way out, thank God Brian doesn't do that.
Only thing that could have made it perfect was 1080p resolution. I don't like the idea of upscaling 720p to 1080p as it might increase lag somewhat. All in all this little console seems pretty fantastic.
+charvelgtrs then don't upscale, does your TV not support 720p natively? Most 1080p HDTV will do 720p natively.
Costa Apostolou
You can't run 720p natively on a 1080p fixed pixel panel like an LCD or Plasma. No matter what the resolution is it will always upscale to 1080p.
+charvelgtrs guess I'm lucky I have a 720p CRT HDTV then lol.
+charvelgtrs
you can display a 720p image on a 1080p screen without upscaling. it just creates black bars around the image.
You do a nice job with these videos.
Damn. Awesome review. I'm definitely going to have to check this out. Not been a fan of the emulator boxes. Thanks, Lon.
I hope to see more like it in the future!
I'm sure all the people who paid $500 for the Analogue NT are feeling duped now.
Isn't that 1080p instead of 720p?
You can notice a difference? I can't.
With such low resolution games, it doesn't matter if its 1080 or 720
+BelgianSocialist if they thought it was the only option they might.
So says the socialist...why don't you tell us about the VAT on a $500 console?
This was a great review, extremely thorough.
Man you are so lucky. I would absolutely love one of these.
I ordered one about a week ago. Soooo stoked. Hell yeah
Lon, this is soooo great!!! Thanks for doing the review!
Very good review
if you need Nintendo controlers hit up value village, goodwill, etc. I've found official controllers for between $1.99 and $3.99 (Canadian)
First off, great to see the Batman movie game featured with its wonderful music. I just went back an replayed that one a number of times a month ago. Top-notch game and one of my favorites now. Great review overall. Looks like they got so many things right with it. It seems like a quality package. Good to see how much they care about this product. Great timing too as it will be available when the mini NES triggers a wave of nostalgia.
Great video as always, Lon! Since you're mentioning that you're going to do a followup video, and you also have a flashcart, I'd love to see the system running the 240p test suite, from the XRGB wiki. It's a nice little software that will let you test the picture resolution, scrolling, scanlines and so, but the most interesting thing is the latency test. Maybe you can double check the AVS doesn't have any input lag whatsoever? :)
And by the way, it would be also interesting if you could please explain the difference between a NOAC and a FPGA. I'm a little lost.
Thanks!
Thanks for the review. I'm really looking forward to this.
Loved this review!
Great review Lon! A few points: (1) Yes, this works fine with the Everdrive N8. (2) You made it sound like save states aren't possible, but just like with original hardware you should be able to utilize the save state feature that's built into the Powerpak and Everdrive. (3) The ultimate NES solution is modding original hardware to use kevtris' hdmi out board ("Hidef NES") b/c that outputs native 1080p with no frame buffer (ZERO lag), and has considerably more customizable menu options as well as complete extended audio chip support (eg. much better audio when playing Japanese version of Castlevania 3 ROM). The AVS by comparison outputs 720p (not sure about added latency on output), but more latency is definitely added as your TV upscales it to 1080p for display. One other distinction has to do with the limited choice of integer scaled aspect ratios that are possible with 720p vs 1008p output which is discussed in detail here: ruclips.net/video/TI60A3DpI6w/видео.html
yeah and also, now we've confirmed that the AVS doesn't have EDID, which is a HUGE issue. 3:06 the reason why this is happening is because the AVS is not designed with EDID. this means that the HDMI does not have a 'standardized' signal for all TVs to understand. in other words, the AVS will not work with random TVs.
Awesome review.
I have a Famicom AV (the 2nd version which is similar in design to the NES toploader) which i love but this looks like something i need in my life. I recently bought the 8bitdo bluetooth retro reciever and one of their NES Pro 30 controllers to give me a wireless controller for the Fami, bet they would work a treat with this too.
Absolutely great review...I actually heard about the system from Pat and Ian's cuPodcast...just great, Thanks.
It would have been nice had they included a bit of onboard RAM so you could back up your original cart's game saves before the batteries die. Also, some basic save states would be nice too. Just for people who don't use flash carts
Would the zapper light gun work with a CRT hooked up via a digital to analog converter?? I know it's a bit redundant, but curious non the less.
Actually the Famicom had a extra plug in control port, it was located on the back of the famicom. This allows accessories to be used like light guns and 4 players accessories.
A little late to the party but I did get the AVS for Christmas. I also own the NES Mini Classic. I own about 80 NES games and probably 14 of them are also on the NES Mini. The AVS compared to the NES Mini games played on the same monitor/TV look really close, but what sets them apart is the sound. Mega Man 2, Ice Climbers, Mario games, and I think some others sound much better on the AVS. I have a friend of a friend that owns a pie and I think the AVS has better control response (tried Batman on both sides). Built in 4 score makes this a great buy and I feel the best bang for the buck right now.
Does anyone know if the AVS will play sound through a monitor via HDMI? Example is the ROG PG279. I've tried my Wii through the ROG HDMI through a converter and never got the sound working.
Nice job with the review. I've actually been watching the AVS project for over 3 years now and jumped at the chance to pre-order one. ... .... I was wondering if you can play Famicom games which utilize the microphone such as Zelda, SMB, and a few others. I believe you would use a Famicom controller with built-in mic plugged into the EXT Famicom port on the AVS. According to a other review they said you can't because the AVS doesn't have a Microphone input, but I thought all you needed was the pad with built-in mic.... confused on that.
Also, does it recognize Japanese Famicom games in the slot to enter codes saved in its database?
It does recognize Japenese games, but those games do not have Game Genie or Pro Action Replay Codes.
Would love to see it compare to the new classic nes mini from nintendo to see if it is any better or the same.
One thing I plan on doing is etching in the "Nintendo Entertainment System" in the front flap's plastic. Glad they left it blank. They really thought of everything
Thank you, Lon!!!! :) great video!
Lon, how did you get your hands on this machine this early?? On the retroUSB website, they say it'll ship mid to late September.
thanks for this video dude, you convinced me to get one instead of that (admittedly adorable) Classic NES Mini
I just received one of these in the mail yesterday. It seems to be powering up fine, but the cartridges do not lock into place and the system does not seem to be recognizing them. Did you have any problems with this?
So I am really considering buying this but question......will the game genie work in this?
Just bought an AVS, anyone know how many times you have to insert/remove a cart before it takes less than 50 lbs of force to insert/remove one? I wanted to be able to play my old games without breaking them and scraping lines in the back of the plastic carts. ( No I am not at all being even slightly sarcastic )
if you put the avs with a downscaler to crt wouldnt duck hunt work then?
The Vertical Border, I wish they made some of that software for the ps2, so it could allow wider view, most games in PS2 had much wider capacity, but because hd televisions were not out yet, they made the console see only square, which a software like FreeMacBoot in a Memory card that could allow Vertical Border option would be perfect, making the PS2 games all in an HD panoramic view.
I have the AVS and the RetroN 5 both...I can assure you that both work/play great. AVS has a slightly better picture quality because every square pixel is represented as it was back in the day....however, the RetroN 5 smooths out the square pixels to "round" out all the corners so to speak.
3:06 the reason why this is happening is because the AVS is not designed with EDID. this means that the HDMI does not have a 'standardized' signal for all TVs to understand. in other words, the AVS will not work with random TVs.
looks like other people are having audio issues too: see 25:00 on this unboxing periscope video www.periscope.tv/w/1yoJMrvXREXxQ#
Already fixed, not EDID but due to the audio sampling rate
nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?StartRow=3221&catid=7&threadid=92557
Great review Lon! Just picked one of these up! Have you had time to try any of the Retro-8Bitdo controllers with this system?
Thanks man. I am gonna get one of these!
can i use clone cartridges (famicom or nes) or only original ones?
thanks
does this play all the reproduction games say like mr gimmick sweet home or 150 in 1 nes cart? This product looks amazing.
If you go on a YT AVS review watching spree, there are many people that have no problems using oddball carts in the system. Every ROM hack I've thrown at it via my Everdrive N8 has worked just fine.
It's gorgeous. If I collected for NES, I'd buy one without hesitation.
'Sure as hell not about to start now though.
01:27 - Hardware overview05:23 - Gameplay - Batman (more footage at lon.tv/avsfootage)07:06 - Zelda and battery backup cartridge compatibility07:43 - Cheat codes / Game Genie compatibility09:23 - Input options10:30 - Video configuration12:25 - Scanline configuration14:25 - Flash cartridge compatibility - PowerPak demonstrated15:55 - Gameplay - Megaman 2 footage16:28 - Light gun / zapper / ROB incompatibility16:54 - Retro USB published launch titles17:52 - Conclusion and final thoughts
This is very interesting, now I just wonder if they will get around to making a snes one...
Tried a few emulator boxes and the wii seems to work best for that. Gonna try one of these though.
yeah I'm getting this and the powerpak!
Wow! Nice IIGS!
Great review! Now all we need is the movie "The Wizard" on Blu-ray DVD. "I love the Power Glove. It's so bad."
Does an Everdrive cart work on it?
The AVS is now on Amazon for those who want that option.
Definitely subbed.
Looks great an lots of amazing features, even has the Famicom Expansion Port! The only thing I would have liked to see is more options for outputs. Maybe RGB and audio to make it easier to hook up to a PVM without converting the HDMI.
the Analogue NT mini gas both 1080P and RGB. all the NES accessory work !!!!!!! including the light gun. but, a HDTV tube TV or monitor is required.
my only complaint is no guide rail for the cart, you almost bent the port by lifting the cart which will. damage it eventually. Hopefully they will add some guide rail in later revisions.
Everdrive n8 does work, I just don't know if save states work.
Yes the savestates do work just fine with my Everdrive N8.
How's it going boss? Can you give me names of a couple of affordable Windows tablets with great resolution? Intend to use it mainly with streaming Apps from the Microsoft App Store. Thanks
FPGA is the future!
Wow i hope they make a Neo-Geo and Turbo Grafix version
Very cool if you still have your old collection or access to someone elses. Fortunately Nintendo themselves is actually giving us their own Classic Mini with 30 games built in due this November for $60.
The Classic Mini is running software emulation which is inferior to what the RetroUSB AVS is doing and most importantly it doesn't allow you to either run original cartridges or expand the library. The Classic NES is more of a novelty where as the RetroUSB AVS could be a true replacement for original NES systems.
Also, you could simply pay $100 for an NES Everdrive and have the whole NES/Famicom game collection on one cart.
now you can hack the mini to play all nes games now. but if i wanted something original. i would simply buy you know. the original nes for 40$(at least at where i live). I appreciate their effort. but i believe they should decrease the price a little.
I don't get using the original controller ports vs. usb. I'll get the same level of nostalgia over with the convenience of already owning a USB NES controller.
Wasn't there a system you were getting in that could be programmed to be other chipsets? Did I miss that one?
Yes, this looks awesome. I was just wondering what ever became of that other one! My wife says you are an enabler for my tech obsession and now here is another thing I want.
does something like this also exists for the Super Nintendo as this is my most favorite console of all time and I already own the everdrive for the SNES. Thank you very much in advance.
lon, what tv or monitor model are you using for the AVS?
Can you turn the codes on/off while playing
That left side gunk is called overscan.
i own a avs.and its been awesome....i watch reviews for nt mini n avs..reviews.say u cant really tell.a diffrence with nes games betweeen 720p to 1080p..if u just wanna play nes games on a hdtv then the avs is well worth it..
Does zapper work if you use a crt tv?
Does the Retro USB powerpak work with this?
any talks of a nes and nes combo system?
Mine makes a buzzing sound when I use it on PC ;(
its hardware emulation lots of stuff works this way now, hell i use to work for a place that i at 8hrsa day just flashing roms to replacement parts for kaosk systems that used proprietary hardware that was not possible to build with native chips anymore, our replacements where ALOT more powerful, allowing the units to run updated software for generations the company made 5-6gens higher then the original hardware could, but also could 1:1 hardware emulated run and operate with all the old hardware.
and yeah, its alot better then most software methods, though, with an, NES era hardware, you could im sure, easily build something around a SeeD board or RaspberryPi or the like, that could be fully updated to not only support the old hardware like the glove, but, might let people in the geek community use it for other things without the hassles i have seen people go to to make it function with anything but an nes.
what would be amazing is somebody making a setup like this, but that can operate with nes/snes/n64 and perhaps ms/genesis/saturn/dreemcast as well, if the software is FOSS and users are given access to the rom and ability to help patch it, you very likely would see lots of updates/patches and people finding interesting ways to use/build/etc with it....
oh..idea....make it sort of like legos, base unit with nes/ms support, then snap in/connect parts that add support for other consoles, could also make it so each unit could work on its own but if you got more they connect togather so you only need 1 power/video connection for all of it, i like the idea...if they crowd funded it and kept the cost reasonable, they could even massdrop kits to build/assemble your own, i have wanted to be able to properly play alot of the older titles without the PITA that can be, getting some titles working with emulation....i will admit it was funny using my buddy cellphone as a "gun" to shoot ducks in duckhunt though.....
but either way, using a system like this, allows them to expand on what the original could do and keep better compatibility, though, still be able to update it to fix issues.
still, would love to see something like this, that could emulate consoles, and do more, hardware or software..
i did like the idea one friend of mine had, rather then having sockets/slots for carts and controllers on the actual base unit, a geeks dream version could just stick the controller connections on a octopus cable, and put a brick with console cart slots on a cable as well, advantages of that are many but, one major one is, if the cart slot gets worn/damaged/etc, you can just replace a cable and brick not have to replace the unit or solder (i could solder, and have, even modified classic nes units with a slot that was just direct incert like this no "Click it down" aspect(horrible design...horrible....)
nintendo can be real dicks, they know its popular but nuke it anyway...prob hoping you will just get the Wii and Wii versions of classics...
hope this concept takes off but, somebody comes out with a more open version that supports more then just nes/famicom games..
Actually pal was 50 frames per second, or 50hz. NTSC was 60fps, or 60hz. It has to do with the frequency of the power in those countries.
"Even the Power Glove works with it."
This thing is cool, but I don't think it's magical enough to make the Power Glove a functional thing...
Feedback.
I think if they would of added a Gameboy cartridge slot, that would of made it more attractive to sell, I mean Gameboy games could haved been replicated in Color, and HD option, that is a plus.
only problem I could see with it is the gigantic door. granted its design was inspired by the original North America NES and it achieves that. All I could see when I saw it being opened and closed is the multitudes of first generation Wiis I buy dirt cheap nowadays that function but he access doors for the GC ports have gave up the ghost long ago and are in a landfill somewhere. I'm probably wrong, and that's a super trivial complaint, but I was wondering nonetheless
3:06 looks like other people are having HDMI / audio issues. see 25:00 on this unboxing periscope video www.periscope.tv/w/1yoJMrvXREXxQ#
Brian has already corrected this issue
nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?StartRow=3221&catid=7&threadid=92557
I would suggest instead FPGA MIST (I don't work for them!). It allows to play perfectly NES, any old school computers (C64, AMIGA...) and many other consoles for the same price. I own one, it works perfeclty but you don't have hdmi out, instead VGA or SCART RGB (perfect on my CRT). Also, it takes some times to configure it. After, you can play any rom, no need of cartridge... you can use sega genesis controller
For those people that want to play "Duck Hunt" and other NES light gun games on their LCD TV a great alternative is to buy a Nintendo Wii and get those classic games from the Wii Shop. They have been programmed to work with the Wiimote. If you want a more accurate "zapper" feel, you can even get a gun shaped holder for the Wiimote.
I remember testing out one type of computer monitor and the game seemed to work great. Then again I think it was with a Super Joy 3 emulator.
The issue is with the display. The light gun works by flashing the screen blank first. Because the light gun still picks up the backlight on LCD/LED monitors, it never "sees" a blank screen.
I believe you're not right about this Mr. Pigs18.
Old CRTs will not display black. A CRT will still glow when it is completely black. And modern LED TVs are able to completely turn off the LEDs getting actual black. And plasma screens could do this all along. The problem is the latency between the system and the display.
Clicking the trigger causes the screen to go black for 1 frame, followed by a frame with a white square for the target, the gun picks up both the black and white frame to determine if you've made a hit. Since there is a noticeably longer delay between modern screens vs a good old CRT, the light gun doesn't register the shot being fired because it doesn't receive the frames fast enough.
Chris Hicks If that were the sole reason, the Zapper should work with this system.
A digital TV does not have the same response time as a CRT because a CRT dumps the data to the screen as soon as it's received, it doesn't buffer or pre-process the signal. A Digital signal must be processed and buffered first. Even if it's only 3 frames delay, it's going to affect the light gun. If the gun doesn't receive the flash on the right frame, it doesn't register at all. You'd have to find an LCD TV that puts out signal with no delay. Maybe there are specially made ones that have CRT levels of delay and they may work with a light gun. There's also the possibility that the light output from the LCD and LED TV's clash with the photo sensor in the light gun.
I thought it might be overpriced until you showed that it plays famicom games AND has a built in Game Genie! Damn! :D
And 720p HDMI out with very little lag.
+charvelgtrs "very little"? I thought there was none?
*****
Well, all LCD and Plasma TVs will introduce some lag, especially if using a 1080p display.
Actually, since this is 720p you are better off using a 4K display believe it or not. 720p will scale perfectly to 4K where as 1080p isn't a perfect multiple.
Any lag will depend on how your TV handles the 720p signal, some will do better than others. Modern sets are made with 720p/1080p sources in mind so scaling/displaying the AVS should introduce only a few frames of delay at most.
youtubasoarus Well the biggest value is the crisp HD output, as while you can get a FC-to-NES adapter for 15 dollars, a Hi-Def NES kit that can give the NES HDMI output costs around 150 dollars
Wait a minute... there is no option for AV cables out??? What kind of oversight is that?!?!
+Lon Seidman What if I want an NES console that is newly manufactured and that I can expect to use and let my kids play with for many years without it dying of age, corrosion and wear?
You could always try using an HDMI to AV/Composite converter. Amazon or eBay probably has 'em. Never tried them myself, so you might want to do your own research.
The NES was faulty to being with and CRT's are gonna be a lot harder to find as they go on... as well as eventually be worn out.
fammy com :P great in depth review
I know it's not your shtick but it would have been great to see a tear down.
Does the light gun work with a crt tv?
Yes, but not on a flat screen TV.
This is HDMI only. Can't hook it up to a CRT.
I wonder if they have any plan to do an SNES console.
FPGA hardware clones of the SNES still aren't there yet although work is being done to make it possible. Maybe in a few years.
Not this manufacturer. Someone who goes by kevtris is working on it. If you google "zimba 3000", an atartiage thread should show up.
Very cool 👍🏽
Will you be able to find this in stores???
No, but you can find it here: www.retrousb.com/product_info.php?cPath=36&products_id=78&osCsid=9c47f934d7c5fea9c1e598f17e8ae987
Nice toy :)
RetroUSB should have made the console that's similar to the Super Retro Trio. Where it Plays the NES, SNES, and Genesis.
I wonder if they are going to make other consoles like the Genesis (that would totally destroy the Mk III and at games consoles) :)
how does this compare to rgb
It is able to play famicom disk system?
Yes it is
better design than the original
If you want to make it really authentic you have to yellow the plastic.
My friend 26 years ago had this I asked him why does it look different and he said it's from the future 😅 called him a liar sorry James.