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1% & 0.1% Lows Explained!
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- Опубликовано: 12 апр 2017
- Demystifying 1% and 0.1% low frame times!
Scott Wasson's article: bit.ly/2oaJpLx
GamersNexus website: www.gamersnexus...
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GamersNexus video on 1% and 0.1% lows: bit.ly/2pek8iP
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Bitwit is a PC gaming and hardware-focused RUclips channel committed to making quality online tech videos for your infotainment! We are a nerdy married couple pumping out 3 to 4 videos a week delivering a mixed bag of content including product reviews, custom PC builds, vlogs, the occasional comedy sketch and more.
1% & 0.1% Lows Explained!
• 1% & 0.1% Lows Explained!
Bitwit
/ bitwit
Just want to say the explanation here is still so simple and easy to understand that I end up linking people to this multiple times a day when asked what 1% low means 😁
I came here just after watching your reviews lol
I just came here after watching the 80w vs 90w difference test.
Kamel Alramahi which ones better?
i came here just to like you.
I can confirm😂 I'm here because of you
Let's see how long it takes LTT to flag/copyright strike this one 😂
Not fast enough.
Anass Rhammar Oh shit what did I miss.
Paul's Hardware
why what happened
I was thinking the same thing! haha
Elaborate
Everybody's hating because you used "as fast as possible".
I still love you Kyle.
Jason Bayens I love you too Doge . Pepe bless .
oh my god BITWIT LOVED MY COMMENT JOY OF JOYS!!!
That's because "As fast as possible" is Kyle's bedroom motto. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
wut
wot
almost 3 years to the day and this video is still helping people!
I'm building my first PC and this really did help me!
What did you think? It will be helpful for only 10 days?
@@stuff6585 I'm glad I don't see the world in a negative light like you do. Must be horrible walking around in all that gloom. Maybe therapy would help?
Make it 5 lol
7 years
This is why you take the average results from three separate runs. You will notice that the 1% and 0.1% results are actually lower than the 'minimum' frame per second figure.
There should still be a very heavy emphasis of taking the average figure for the 0.1%, 1% and average frame rate from three runs. A single run can often still provide misleading data.
Hi Steve :)
Hardware Unboxed i thought they were important in reviewing hardware ,but didn't know they were that important 😋
+GYM BUDDIES - Honestly I often conduct hundreds if not thousands of benchmark runs per week testing GPUs, CPUs, system memory and so on. Almost never do I run into a situation where the .1% and 1% results tell me something the minimum doesn't.
In fact it's been quite a few years since I found the frame time data from Fraps (and now PresentMon) necessary. Pretty much since AMD fixed the multi-GPU stuff ;)
Guys in the comments often make a big deal over it, I think they are just trying to sound smart ;)
Hardware Unboxed 🤔 hmm , it all comed down to if the gameplay is smooth or not and when u do testes with so many hardware combination ,i can just sit back and watch your review were results are shown and at the background your reassuring voice is guiding which one is to choose ,and the point bitwit mentioned about user's getting used to stutter because they don't know the smoothness over time is true but he forgot one important aspect ,we all have friends and users who are watching videos on RUclips don't just play all day alone at their home , friends have different PC's but still we don't know the best combination to choose ,like you shut down all the blah blah comments by showing a dual core processor is strong enough to utilise the 1050ti fully (g4560) ,i read those comments on previously about when you used your i3 for testing gpus and people commenting that you are idot ,u r not using its full potential ,blah blah ,but the stutter issue will only happen who only play's at their own pc and don't have any friends ,no social life ,etc,even though i eas gonna upgrade to g4560 bye watching your video's but still waiting for ryzen r3 , because g4560 is amazing paired with 1050 or rx470 ,but the cpu usage is at it's full like 90% or more ,so when you gonna compare r3 with i3 or g4560 could you please add the cpu usage Percentage 🙏,even though i believe you ,but it will be quite reasuring seeing if the ryzen r3 is like using 70 % cpu usage than g4560 90% ,even if frame rate are little lower r3 , I will still buy that one because its more future reassuring , because anything can happen in future,🙏
Hardware Unboxed No you don't have to do that. The 1% low is technically the 99th percentile in a frequency distribution. This way, you are using a sample set, get the 99th percentile and that's it. If you average it over three runs, then it's something different and not accurate. If you want to do three runs, get all frame-times on all three runs and set them as one bigger sample set. Then get the 99th percentile from those and that's it.
You don't take percentiles of each run and average the three. That's just not how we do it with statistics. If you average the three then it's not the 99th percentile anymore because it's from different sample sets.
Sure you can still average three runs but its not the 99th percentile (aka 1% low).
or in short: 1% and 0.1% lows tell you how badly a game will stutter.
when you game at 144FPS, you do not want to see 0.1% lows that dip far below 100FPS or you will notice stuttering.
getting average high FPS is easy, getting consistent high FPS is hard.
So if i have a game running at 40 FPS and 0.1% at 30 FPS its good but at 25 FPS is bad?
@@pegameplay7409 Yes because even though you have a lower frame rate it's consistent and having a consistent frame rate is better even at lower frame rates than high but inconsistent frame rates.
@@rowdy1003 How do I improve my 1% and .01% lows?
@@rinati75 lower graphic quality, lower resolution, update driver.
So what is the cure for these low %s? Limiting framerate? Going back to 1080p?
Great video Kyle, I actually didn't have a clue to what 1% and 0.1% meant in benchmarks, and you not only made it clear, but also entertaining to learn it
Thanks for the explanation.
Would give an extra thumbs up if i could for the shout out to Gamers Nexus, they are so underrated.
drekoll Totally agreed. They're amazing
Linus, you look a little....different.
BT and his voice is a few octaves lower.
BT he hit puberty
and he's speaking more slowly. Linus has some great content, other than when he's using cringeworthy construction techniques, but the speed with which he speaks can be annoying.
I don't get it.
the video title earlier had "as fast as possible" in it... and it is used by techQuickie, a channel of linus... so yea!
"Explained fast as possible" = "Efap"
E-Fap
@@FartGamer39 boxxy faps
@@FartGamer39 HMMMMMM
Was gonna call you out for taking Gamer's Nexus idea, but glad you included their content in the description. Good to see more creators adopting a much superior testing methodology, really.
DrearierSpider1 Yeah, I'd rather get smoother frames than higher frame rates tripping over themselves. After running RX 480's in crossfire, I can state that while some games were vastly better than others about keeping the stutters to a minimum, they were always there.
Don't know if you care but OCAT does that except for the 0.1% but provide you a CSV with the data. I developed a Python software that load and compute the 0.1%
Thanks for clarifying what these measures are Kyle! And thanks to GN who is widely using it and to the bloke who discovered this gem of a method of frame testing. I've been watching GN for the last few months and wondered why I was seeing all of these values in their graphs, now I understand why and support it whole heartedly!
TECHQUICKIE
AwesomeQuickie ( That's what she said )
@@anassrhammar9126 so what's better? Higher number or Lower for FPS LOW
In some testing of the ryzen 5 cpu's, it seems that the .1% and 0.1% frames are higher than intel in some cases.. does anyone know why this is the case?
Some of the Ryzen 5 CPUs have more than 4 threads unlike i5s, which can help with minimum framerates in some games.
Edit: And, yeah. Read agc's reply below.
Shouldn't people just be happy about these better frametimes instead of constantly looking for something negative, or something to disbelieve?
Intel mainstream CPUs are currently limited to 4 cores, with i5's having only 4 threads, and the i7 having 8 threads. When in a modern game like GTA V you are going to be maxing the CPU out, and any sort of background task or heavy action (big explosions, etc) is going to create a very noticeable stutter if it pushes the CPU into trying to deliver something it can't in the time allotted. Quite simply, it's a bottleneck established by a crap core count. The R5 1600 and R7 lineup is much more in line with the 6800k and 6900k respectively and there is absolutely no shortage of cores to offset background tasks or keep up with the game's demands.
most reviewer only tested/benchmark those CPU at a very limited time, probably less than 10m each. So it's not exactly representative of real world usage. I bought i5 6400 because in the review it have a good average fps and 1% and 0.1%. However in my daily usage including Hours of gamplay the 1% and 0.1% are considerably worse than what reviewer achieve, so take review with grain of salt.
Because they use clean OS, nothing close to an actual pc used by someone. That's why you should sell your crappy 4 core and get at least the Ryzen R5 1600. No worries about lack of resources, no ipc or OC is going to fix a lack of cpu resources (cores/threads/cache).
Some reviewers won't tell you but they can also disable services, sound, etc to reduce even more OS loads. A fantasy kind of workload.
Can't wait to see you in the next Scrapyard Wars with Linus!
what kind of linus tech tips is this
Fitz powell nice dio picture
so how can i fix the 0.1 lows dropping to 25 from 400 fps i even tried to cap still happens
Good on you for crediting Wasson as the originator and GN for reformatting and popularizing the 1 and .1 % method. It's the least you can do in a sea of derivative (me too) content that RUclips is awash in. Glad to see other reviewers picking it up, even "review lite" type channels like this one.
The big question I have is, is how do you go about fixing these drops? It happens every now and then in several games I play and is really irritating when you pay so much for a PC that is supposed to provide a smooth experience.
Yes! I've wondered how to describe this effect for a while, it drove me crazy when it seemed like I had decent fps on the counter but it felt like it stuttered.
Thanks for this!
you too? I get this all the time.
Ram speed ftw
Glad to see 1% and .1% framerates gaining more traction on my favorite tech channels. Really the only sensible way to do it. Great video. I had no idea that Wasson was the pioneer behind the concept, though I did know GN had been spreading the gospel of frametimes. Keep up the good work Kyle. Almost ready for ultra ...
Good that you also adopted this method of analysis, cuz it DOES give a better picture.
And respect for giving kudos to GamersNexus who really are front runners in the world of PC equipment and review thereof. ;-)
Fuck yeah, thank you for tightening the 1% and .1% lowskis Kyle, also, Gamers Nexus is very in depth with their information which is awesome. Keep it up!!!🤘😎
I literally googled this ten minutes ago and then Kyle uploads this video.... it's like he knows
Awesome video - finally some1 explained this stuff.
Greetings from Latvia.
Kyle, just a suggestion. I understand what the 1% and 0.1% lows mean (huge GamersNexus fan), but for those that may not see this video you should put in each graph something like "less spread between average FPS, 1% low and 0.1% low is better" like you explained at 3:22 in the video. Similar to how you do "lower is better" or "higher is better" in older videos.
I made a quick example for you in photoshop: i.imgur.com/KBDEGDd.jpg
tighter is better.. oh wait...
The spread really doesn’t matter, as long as all data sets show the same or at least similar trends. It just means you have benchmarked a section of the game that offers a varied workload.
Hardware Unboxed i still cant understand actually.. hhaha.. based on the example, can u tell me which is better n which is not so i can study how to differentiate them..
My point is not the technicality of what 1% and 0.1% lows mean. Just put in the graph what is "better" so everyone knows what they are looking at when they see a comparison.
Have you considered showing the actual distribution rather than just the 50%, 1%, and 0.1% lows? You could pack a lot more information while being able to quickly point out mean, median, and the lows that you already display. Or maybe continue using the bar graphs but throw in standard deviation?
you deserve the like for giving another person the credits, that`s something 99.9% of youtubers wouldn`t do..
I never asked what the %1 and %.1 fps meant because I knew this video was coming.
I'm determining what kind of computer to buy in order to play the new Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 game. I am reading up on recommended hardware on different sites based on what the Microsoft Flight Simulator team put as their specs.
On one site, an author to an article I read has performed different benchmark tests for the frame rate per second (fps) based on the in-game settings performances (on an RX 5600 XT and an RTX 2060 FE), GPU, CPU (with RTX 2080 Ti and RX 5700 XT video cards used), and memory performances (with the RTX 2080 Ti video card used). In total 3 AMD and 3 Intel CPUs were run during the test (I don't know why, but that's how it was).
Each chart of each frame rate test at a certain in-game settings/resolution has labeled at the bottom "Average" and "99th Min". What is 99th min? Are you saying the 0.1% low and 1% low should replace 99th min because they are more accurate?
Kyle I do strongly suggest that you link this explanation video unser EVERY video from now on. Otherwise the questions will never stop.
aye i just found you're channel when i started working on building a computer so i just want to say thank you and keep the good videos up man
Still the best 1% & 0.1% Lows Explanation Video on RUclips.
always wondered when i saw gamer nexus videos and others with 1% and 0.1% lows what they were. Never understood them really and always forgot to look them up. Glad you made this video, really easy to understand what it all means.
I've been paying more attention to the 1pc lows these days. Only cos I noticed texture pop in and high particle scenes caused stutters in my old PC.
I'm really digging the flip book analogy.
I know this is an old video, and I might of commented on it before, but is there a correlation between 1% low and the Variable refresh rate range of G-sync monitors. For example, if I have a 1% low of x and x is within the Variable refresh rate range than G-sync/Free-sync is doing it's job.
Great video! So I have a new xfx Merc 319 6800xt and it has terrible low end frames. Benchmarked on horizon zero dawn I had: 78 avg FPS, 164 max fps, and 2 min FPS. When it hits those 2 FPS it’s like hitting a wall, so does that mean I have a defective gpu?
+Bitwit, can you turn up your recording volume? You're consistently significantly quieter than other techtubers. I usually watch during lunch in a loud place on headphones and you can be difficult to hear!
Thanks, that does explain a lot! Keep throwing these tidbits of info from time to time.
When there is a big disparity between 1% and 0.1% low in a particular game, what is supposed to be done? Turn off some effects until stability is reached?
Man!! U R an example of why I glad many RUclipsrs review or explain the same products and things. I love GamersNexus, but I understood it a lot more after u explained it. ...or course it could be that that I'm idiot & I need things broken down to me....plus I think I could've been a little lit when I watch G. Nexus vid.... Thanks man
Happy to see you using this testing methodology. Even happier to see the shout out to GN and their work, seriously underrated channel.
I experienced this in BF4 with a 4790k and 970 SLI. The FPS was good, but it stuttered like crazy. Got it sortet out by unparking my cores, and it was silky smooth after. So low frametimes can usually be bad optimized game or cpu holding back? I have now a broadwell-e and single card setup, no more low framtime or microstutter.
you should move to q-plots/cdf. would allow you to show cards against eachother more fairly while not muddying the vis with stats that might seem unfair
yes yes BUT what causes the frame rates to dip towards these 1% and 0.1% lows ?, in your yellow dots chart 3:02 it shows the 1% as being very few frames with high latency very far off from the rest of the normal frames, anyone know the cause of that ?
Thanks to Kyle from Awesomesauce News, i finally understand this "a bunch of crappy frames" stuff. Thanks for making this video. I'd give you a dollar if i had one.
No offence but I did not expect you to explain it this well, good job. And I like that you mentioned Scott Watson and Steve Burke, it's great that more tech channels are implementing 0.1% and 1% low metrics. Good video.
The back of my legs tingled when the fat guy fell down. And I learned stuff too!
Thank you kyle... i was pondering all over the net to get some simple info... you provided it... you are awesome
Witquickie~
LinusSexQuickieBitPaul's2Cents
Anass Rhammar dude,at least he reviews things i can get my hands on,so it's still better for us.
More than meets the eye
@@anassrhammar9126 LUL
Excellent job explaining the material, bruh! I think I killed, like, at LEAST 24 minimum frame rates last night. It was strangely liberating...
This was actually super helpful! I haven't heard any arguments against using the minimum framerate other than this, but I think you're right. This seems like a much better metric.
I would love it if you also included a frametime graph like MindBlank Tech
so is a big gap between avg fps and 1% fps only caused by the gpu? is there anything else that might cause 1% lows? im struggling cause i keep getting high fps on all my games but the 1% is always way less no matter what. if im getting 140 avg fps my 1% will be 60 fps. and even if i cap the fps to 60 thinking it will match the 1% low all of a sudden my 1% low becomes 30 fps, so i cap it to 30 fps and again 1% lows are about 20fps.
Bitwit, Paul's hardware and Gamernexus are the best tech RUclipsrs out there. I love your channels guys, keep up the good work.
Thanks Kyle......I asked for this in the comments of
previous videos.I am glad you did this.
I wish reviewers would agree on a metric that basically takes the average FPS of 100%, lowest 1%, and lowest 0.1%. Add them together and call it a playability score. In the example in the video the system with 80 average FPS and lower 1% and 0.1% would have a score of 135 and the other system would have a score of 160.
Although not showing the full data set it gives a single easy to compare metric that is actually based on what a real gaming experience would be on such a system. The full data set could then just be parts of that same one graph with colour coding to denote each segment of data.
Thank you very much for the explanation. Noticed GN was basing all their testing on this, and several other channels/tech editors have adopted it, so maybe the industry would head into this, as it was relevant a while back for SLI/Xfire performance analysis. I have a couple of questions for you and maybe you could deep dive on other video based on this. For AIB cards, let say I'm buying an RX480, do you think it would a be relevant comparison to measure different brands' 1% and 0.1% performance? Or do you expect it to be fairly similar across the board and I should base my purchase decision on other features instead? Do you think consumers would mature enough to base purchase decisions on "measured" smoothness? ie. Lets say a GTX1060 delivers 75fps avg, 50fps 1% and 40fps 0.1%, but an Rx 480 delivers 68fps avg, 58fps 1% and 37fps 0.1%, what would you buy?
Is this metric only for graphics cards or cpus as well? can cpus affect these values? if so which cpu is better, 7700k or ryzen for the milisecond frametimes consistency?
Pls show us the exact calculation, how it actually works
Good explanation, gg Kyle, solid content.
Although I think i remember GN talking about maximum time difference that we can visible see as stutter. And I mean 1%.01% are faulty for the same reason minimum fames are. It doesnt show the avg performance around that minimum and doesnt account for variations in the data. Idk if any of the tech reviewers would actually spend the time to math the numbers that way though, because it would be even more to do on top of the hours/days of testing.
Thanks so much for this, I was watching one of your videos cause I was trying to learn more about GPUs and wasn't completely sure what they meant. Now I'm golden
Thank you for this video. I have been looking for explanation to this for weeks.
I was wondering what those were. Thank you! Love the videos. :)
Why not use a Frequency Distribution graph instead. That will paint the whole picture in one go. Very quick and easy to do, will probably save production time too.
Steve from GN often spends 20 minutes explaining unique testing methodology and not just explaining them but justifying them. I used to think he was a beatnik, but now I have respect for the hairy dude.
A consistent frametime is what gives a game a perfect sense of motion, it is more important than average framerate. I think this new methodology to measure performance is good but it's still better to do it by eye on games you know. my favorite benchmarks today are DOOM 2016 because I know it runs perfectly, it has a consistent frametime all the time. Rise of the Tomb Raider in the Geothermal Valley because I know that game drops framerate at least 30% in every graphics card while you roam that area, and MGSV-TPP it is capped at 60fps but the graphics engine is very light so you can push higher resolutions and it should run smoothly at 16.6ms frametime all the time, no drops
Great stuff! Glad to see this change.
I've learned a lot of things about computers this week, great video🖤
Great video Kyle! I really like this method over min frame rate. It is obviously a better metric for playability and that's what it's all about!
great video and good move to point out the source of the method.
Hey Bitwit, would you consider doing a build in the Thermaltake View 31 RGB?
Bro... Why is it happening that all my games show fps ranging from 30-60 but this one game Need For Speed Most Wanted 2012 shows 12-13 fps while playing but is still working very smoothly?
Finally!!!!!!!!!!!!! So many quested answered! Thanks Kyle!
Scott Wasson and Gamers' Nexus = Legend !!!!
what are the biggest factors that go into make frametimes more consistent? ive been struggling for years to get a solid frametime, swapping out components, tweaking bios settnigs, went from ryzen 2600 to 5600, changed to nvme, still a lot of games i can have really good FPS, but i still get these huge gigantic frametime spikes which makes me just hate PC gaming and want to just use a console.. so over it!!
Nothing you can do, If a game isnt optimized right or there's a slight if in the game it hits any gpu. This is why some people sorta give up on pc gaming and go console because of this and consoles in this regard is more optimized. I've seen games that ran 120+ fps and hitch and the counter doesn't even move and for example in a older version of nba 2k i get micro stutters every 15 secs or so, Dropping from 120+ to 115 and the frame drop can be felt, Granted im playing on a RTX 4080 + it 13600k which is more then enough for that game, Console like the series X has no problems with the game
That said im kinda use to the slight downfalls of pc gaming, Upside for the most part its smooth , 120+ fps @ 1440p. Its one of those thats that comes with pc gaming it took me a while to get use to because back then every time i ran into it i would be like forget this and go back to console. Now that i got my pc gaming rig more up to date on G-sync, DLSS, and so on its not as bad as what i experienced. Is it as smooth as console in some ways no, But its to a point to where ill still take pc gaming any day over console.
Playing games like GTA 5 / 144hz / 1440 is smooth cant deny that. MW2 @ 165Hz / 1440p is nice as well but cant lie series X did it @ slightly higher frames @ 120hz and that was solid as well.
Great stuff. Really informative video!
So a good way to get smoother gameplay we should test settings and try to get the gap of fps tighter?
Do the 1% and 0.1% values vary between test runs on the same hardware?
Great explanation Kyle! This is why I'm going with Ryzen for my next build!
Wait it takes the frame time of that 1% and converts it to FPS, how ? How do you conver time into FPS? I didn't get that one
jalal ali ...... take the frame time of 1000 frames .......
----> then take 10 frames from above 1000 frames (hence 1% of 1000 frames) which have the highest frame times ..... now if average of 10 frames has like 100 ms frame time (the time for which a single frame appeared on screen) then divide 1s (1000 ms.) by 100 ms. and u have 10 fps which is quite bad xd.
----> then take 1 frame from 1000 frames (hence 0.1% of 1000 frames) which has the highest frame time ...... so if 1 frame has like 200 ms. frame time then divide 1s. (1000 ms.) buy 200ms. and u will get 5fps.
I hope i made it clear. 😄😄
jalal ali Frame rate is the frequency, and frame time is the reciprocal of that (1/x, when frame rate is x), known as the period. In other words, 1/(average frame time)=(average fps).
Basically, frame rate is frames per second, but frame time is seconds per frame (this will be a decimal, so we use milliseconds here instead).
Thanks for that, I didn't think about it that way.
It's basically the cumulative distribution function or CDF. For the layman, it's easier to say (in human terms) that 99% or 99.9% of the time it is XXX FPS, rather than 1% low or 0.1% low respectively
Steve Burke is a awesome guy. Love his content. Arguably my favorite tech youtuber.
I really appreciate this video, Kyle
I do have to ask. What actually causes 1% lows, is it software, hardware or Nvidia settings? I just want to know what will fix it
Looking at benchmarks from the 1%/0.1% low standpoint is a refreshing way to view gaming performance. Thanks for the informative video Kyle :)
Now you only need to start show the results as one colour marked bar instead of 3 different ones ;)
That would save much space and makes charts with more than 3 comparisons much easier to read.
Thanks Kyle ! This insight is highly apreciated
Suppose a total of 100 frames were rendered, out of these, the frame that lasted for the longest time on the screen took 20 ms, so that means 1% low is 50fps, right?
Awesome methodology, far more informative! Thank you very much for switching to it!
This clarifies so much. Was so lost until this video :)
How can you Fix this ? Got some bumps in my frametime and have vsync enabled because i still have a 60 hz Monitor
I really wanted to know what the 1% and 0.1 frames were
didnt know linus hired kyle to shoot the techquckie videos....
Dear Kyle, this explination and the decision to change is top notch. How about Frames per Dollar? (Or as I call it "frames rendered and a particular and unique non-replicable test bench per dollar"?) This unit of measure seems a bit arbitrary and there should be something more standard. Give it a thought, it could be an idea for a video.
Thanks for explaining well, actually understood everything instead of getting lost 5 seconds in like I usually do in every other video.
Is there an international standard (ISO, NATA etc) for bench-marking? If not is there one in development?