@@Ultra247 @Ultra247 the supporting evidence of you having bad takes lies in the like to dislike ratio on your video lmao (17:126 at the time of this reply)
My counterargument for mark's problem will be that mark doesn't want to kill like his father. So whenever he loses control and have the urge to kill, he fears himself. But i still think that sometimes, its irrational fear, such as the moment when he kills armstrong. Yes, mark knows that he was a good guy, but he also should see that he isnt a good guy anymore so he should have no reason to be guilty. I still think thats not an issue because the show acknowledges this irrational fear of mark thru other characters saying "you aren't your dad"
I thought about that. The problem is why? It would always lead you to Nolan's mission. Nolan does not kill in a vacuum. He is killing as a direct order for a planet that is going against Viltrimite control. As soon as Nolan's motive is explained then, the narrative of Mark turning into Nolan does not work. If we did not know his motive, then the idea would make sense. I disagree with the Armstrong part as that also has to do with Mark being able to teleport back home. Mark killing him in that instance would not help him, as the time travel stuff showed. The "aren't your dad parts" are there bc Mark IS "acting" like his Dad. The idea could work, but it does not make sense. Season two removes all the context of season one. The irrational fear part also doesn't make sense. Nolan doing what he did is not some virus. Mark even stood up to him and did not back down. Mark has no reason to be scared, and if he was, then the mission given to him should have been the point he took things seriously(or told everyone about).
@@mazingg2367 Not true. "Bloodlusted" is the uncontrollable anger and desire to kill. No where does Nolan or Mark have an UNCONTROLLABLE desire to kill. When they kill it was a conscience decision. Mark only killed Armstrong bc he thought Armstrong was stronger then he thought and accidently killed him. It was not his intention. When Nolan fought the guardians, he was completely aware of what he was doing. It was all planned. Getting angry does not equal "bloodlust". Anissa also does not kill Mark or Allen so your claim is just incorrect
Yes Mark wanted to kill him but thought Armstrong was stronger(he did not know Armstrong would die). It was a conscience decision not bloodlust. Mark made an assumption and was wrong. The original claim was Viltrimites turn bloodlusted when they get angry this is not true. We have seen Nolan and Mark get angry plenty of times and that did not result in someone dying. I don't know why you are making the assumption that I did not watch the show when my claim is true
I won't lie to you it really doesn't make sense to me why Mark would fear becoming like his dad. 1. Mark was raised in a totally different way while Nolan was raised to become a conqueror for the Viltrum Empire. That's already a lot o difference from the the two of them. 2. Mark literally proves everyone and himself that he isn't like his father in the Season 1 finale once he literally stands up to his father and FIGHTS him to protect his planet. Considering how he was incredibly outmatched and destroyed by his father it would make a lot more sense if instead of fearing to BECOME LIKE HIS DAD he fears NOT BEING STRONG ENOUGH to protect his planet and the people living in it. Add in the trauma of Nolan using Mark's body to kill hundreds of people and you got a season worth of internal and external conflicts for Mark to overcome that actually make sense for the story. Mark would focus 100% of his time on training to become stronger and being a hero which would mean neglecting his personal life with college, friends and family.
That can be explored throughout the whole season. 1. It would explain why he wouldn't listen to Armstrong and force the machine to shutdown resulting in the explosion and death of hundreds of lifes (Armstrong's doppelgangers) and severely deforming Prime Armstrong. This scenario would be a direct consequence of Mark's actions which will come back to haunt him in the finale. It would also make Armstrong's hate towards him make a lot more sense. 2.This would make it harder for him to IMMEDIATELY accept leaving the planet with the bug alien. The bug would notice Mark's resistence and appeal to his humanity by saying that his planet will be destroyed. That's Mid-Season so Mark would already be stronger than he was once he fought Nolan. He would consult and strategize with Cecil. Cecil doesn't agree he needs Mark here. Mark argues that the whole planet will die if he doesn't help so he goes anyway. That upsets Cecil as he wants to keep Mark close in order to feel in control. Also the planet would not be in another galaxy that's bullshit. The planet would be like 4 light years away and the bugs would have FTL technology as they are super smart. 3. Mark would still struggle to keep up with the Viltrumites. He would not be holding back and still it wouldn't be enough. He would constantly rely on his father to help him and that would really piss him off. The fight would end with Nolan being taken, Mark badly injured and being assigned to conquer Earth. 4. That experience will put a lot of pressure on him and we should feel that pressure as the audience. This will drive Mark to train even harder to become stronger until we go to the Armstrong fight.
THAT WAS AN AMAZING READ! BEST comment I have seen! Amazing 👏. I'm happy someone gets it. Your comment/suggestions would make the conflict and character align making for a better story. Edit- you should be a writer hahaha
@@Ultra247 Wow thanks man! I'm really glad you liked it. It would align so well with Invincible War being a direct consequence of his actions, imagine seeing and fighting versions of yourself doing the exact thing you've been working so hard to prevent. And then there is the Conquest fight, the very thing he's been preparing for over a year, the whole world is at stake now, he's feeling the pressure, he fights mercilessly and yet again he almost dies but this time... this time he finishes the job... this time he is able to protect his planet by killing one of the strongest warriors of the Viltrum Empire. Now imagine the dread, the tension, the anxiety once Mark finds out that because of Cecil's obsession with being in control Conquest is alive and has alerted the Viltrum Empire that are now in their way to conquer Earth which then will lead to the the Viltrumite War arc. Maaan the chills lol
The dad that he tried to be like turned out to be a monster it’s psychological trauma . Other characters like Cecil give good logical reasons why he wouldn’t be like his dad but that is not gonna automatically change marks belief about himself
i think the point of the marks struggle is that power corrupts, viltrumites are evil because they have so much power that they feel no need to restrain themselves because there is nearly no consequences for their actions. several viltrumites can kill an entire planet and there is barely anything anyone can do. Mark struggles to embrace his power because the moment he gets to expirience power without consequences, he will either conconsciously or subconsciously fall back on this way of acting. Which will in time make him into someone who will disregard rules because they would just be slowing him down. And eventualy he would make mistakes that way. Mistakes that would cost lives.
Thank you for making this video! When Invincible s1 came out, I fell in love. It was such a refreshing concept to see: a gritty world of superheroes that doesn't fall into the trap of girmdark. I loved the show so much that I read the comic. I got about 115 chapters in before i finally put it down. It left such a bad, rotten taste in my mouth that I never wanted to touch another invincible property agian. But even after reading that much, I could never really put into words why I disliked the comics. "Conflict Over Character" As you said that, it finally clicked. Invincible puts its external plot conflict over internal chapter consistency. This makes the plot "just happen" to Mark, instead of him actively chasing it. The problem with the story is that he is only reactive to conflict and only becoming proactive when there will be more conflict from his failure.
No problem. The issue isn't really reactive vs proactive. Both ideas can work. The issue is placing conflict where it does not fit. For example, you are reading a story about someone who loves breakfast. Them not getting their breakfast ruins their day(characterization). Let's say a writer took that character and ruined their dinner(conflict). The story then tries to make this a big deal, and the character has ruined their whole day(conflict over characterization). To us, the audience, we don't see this as a big issue since said character cares about his breakfast, not his dinner. We don't understand how this ruins his day when dinner happens later in the day. In this instance, the conflict is taking priority over the characterization. Conflict and characterization generally should be working to together. With this info, the audience should say, "wait, something is wrong; the writer should be messing up the character's breakfast, not dinner," or "wait, the character should be in love with dinner, not breakfast". This is Invincible in the second season. The first season does everything pretty well and stuff like Debbie's conflict makes sense in season two. She cares about her husband(characterization), but finds out he is a killer and he thinks of her as a pet(conflict). However, the main storyline of Mark being like his dad was already tackled in season one(Mark's actions), so we have no reason to care about the conflict given Mark's actions in season one. Thanks for the watch tho. I have not read the comics, but I hope the next season improves. But judging from your comment, it looks like it doesn't haha.
You failed to take into account trauma factor. If we take Mark as a severely traumatized individual from all that unfolded it is not even a stretch for him to act this way making down right irrational choices. Like when he got really upset after killing Levy there should not have been that much fear or shoch from his part however a traumatized individual would most definitely feel intense panic after shattering his only cope of "I won't be like my father". This is further seen in his 2 battles with viltrumites where he still clings on delusion that he can do it his way - the way that doesn't resemble his father. As well as him giving up in the battle next to the cruise ship where he downright calls for help because he also has a mental block thinking battling viltrumites is beyond his abillities as he horribly lost the fight vs his father in 1st season which was the traumatic event. In summary - mark is delusional about not wanting to kill and is very scared of viltrumites and doesn't believe he can defeat them. This makes perfect sense and is one of the more rare very pacifistic protagonist stories that actually do make sense. This is not well explored and feels little shallow but subtext is enough to make this excelent. After all - invincible is redefining superhero genre and you can't expect it to be 10/10. I'd give it 7/10.
We have to remember that these characters aren't robots who only follow logic, they have their own morals and feelings that will conflict with that they should logically do. This is why Mark holds back, not because he thinks villians don't deserve to die but because he's too scared to kill them. His fear of becoming like is father is mostly there because that's what the people of earth believe, they're worried that he'll turn out just like omni man which makes sense because they don't know enough about him as a person to understand why he wouldn't. This is best shown with how the immortal tells mark how much he doesn't trust him, logically mark would know he won't turn out like his father but he still worries about it because hes just a person. Mark lashing out and killing angstrom doesn't make him have a breakdown because he didn't want to kill him, like you said he wanted to kill anisa but knew he didn't have the power to so just hit her with all he could. Mark is worried because he doesn't know where to draw the line between not holding back and accidentally killing people because he believes killing a villian is his first step to becoming desensitized to murder, which might lead him to believe omni-mans mission was a good thing and becoming just like him. While omni-man doesn't exactly have a lust for blood he doesn't see murder as a problem which would be just as bad for mark to have those same feelings. I have more to say but I'll only elaborate if you want me to
I'd love to see your interpretation but have some disagreements 1.I don't think I ever argued that these characters should act in the most logical way. I argued that there is a big gap in terms of characterization established in season one and season two throws that out the window. 2. The show does not properly explore Mark's reason for not killing. This is why I used Mob Psycho as an example. 3. They don't know enough about Mark? They know that Mark won't turn bc he fought his father and defended earth. This is something Cecil acknowledged. Immortal should know this as well. It makes no sense and saying "they don't know him" is just poor writing 4.He's just a person? This means nothing. 5.Draw what line? He puts people in danger while fighting Anisa for his own selfish reasons 6. Being desensitized to murder and equating that to his Dad makes no sense given Mark meets his Dad in this very season. Where Nolan regrets his actions 7. Nolan does see murder as a problem. Rewatch the episode where all the aliens die.
The conflict is that mark THINKS he is going to be like omni man because he made it his goal to be like omni man in the first season which was revealed to be a bad person it’s all internal the conflict it isn’t about him actually becoming his dad it is an insecurity or fear that simply comes from trauma . The reason he still fears becoming omni man is that if his dad a great hero can be evil then so can he in his own mind
The video tackles that idea. And I disagree with trauma explanation as Mark literally talks to Omni-man and is able to handle the situation in a mature way. "The reason he still fears becoming omni man is that if his dad a great hero can be evil then so can he in his own mind" This makes no sense. We know Omni-man motive. The video addresses all your points. It would be helpful to rewatch it so that you understand the points being made. Thanks for watching!
85-100% of your takes can be explained in the show. 1. We as the audience know that Mark would never be like Nolan. Most of the characters try to convince him of this too except Cecile that one time in the diner. The point is to see Mark grapple with his insecurities and irrational fears 2. Cecile didn't tell Donald that he was a robot because Donald literally told him not to tell him. 3. Cecile wants Mark to be apart of the team however, also wants him to be a somewhat normal human. This is why he shows empathy to Mark and allows him to get time off when things go to shit. Cecile understands that humans need mental breaks and doesn't want Mark to be a soldier ALL the time. This makes even more sense because if Mark was only a soldier without a heart then he has a higher chance of becoming Nolan. 4. Mark definitely holds back. In season 1 he gets angry on at least 2 separate occasions and then beats the crap out of his opponents. 5. Mark holds back because he was raised as a human and knows that he could kill someone. Mark does not want to kill anyone so he instinctually always holds back. Nolan even tells him to stop "fighting like a human" when the Viltrimites come to the alien planet Overall, bro please rewatch the series. No offense, but you seem to want the show to hold your hand and explain the characters to you or have them as one-dimensional. Almost all the characters in Invincible have depth and nuance, you really have to pay attention though
1. The point is bad. Cecil and Immortal have no reason to compare Mark to Nolan. Mark has no reason to compare himself to his Dad. If the show tackled the idea without the central idea of Nolan, then I would be okay with it 2. Why? Why did Donald do that? Nothing negative comes from knowing that information. You don't even have to watch the videos. All Cecil has to say is, "it was your order". Problem solved. You can't make the mental health argument since his mental is already in ruins. The show makes it out to be more complicated than it is. Rewatched my video and this is EXPLAINED 3. He doesn't want Mark to be a normal human. He wants Mark to listen to him with obedience. Cecil is seen overstepping his boundaries when he tries to tell Mark what to do and when to do it(with his brother and going on missions). Cecil's motives flip from season one to season two. He literally lets Mark become a hero again(when he had concerns about mental health) with no examination or testing while having Immortal on standby This is after the conversation at the diner. Cecil even mentions Mark's hero work and tries to paint it as bad when it has been the best work he has done when compared to season one. You can't say he will be like his Dad, then also say he won't be like his Dad. Nolan didn't even listen to Cecil. It has nothing to do with being a soldier all the time, as Nolan didn't even do his job right(having a child with a human). And suddenly remembers his mission when his son gets powers 4. The video notes he has rage boosts. 5. This idea is not properly shown. Mark is shown putting people at risk when he fights, and he comes across as inexperienced. Mark also fights Anissa and puts other people at risk just so he can try to kill her. Do you see the problem? The moral belief is not treated well. This is why I brought up Mob Psycho 100, which handles the same idea much better. Would you believe someone who said they don't believe in killing but is ok with potentially causing mass casualties due to anger(especially when Annsia was trying to de-escalate the situation)? But holds back for most of the Angstrom fight when his family is in direct danger? Mark is shown to be fast enough to blitz Angstrom when he stops holding back. That questions everything.
@@Ultra247I rewatched the scene . When they start fighting their at the front of the ship while the civilians are coming out of the side. Only time they are close to danger is when anissa throws mark threw the ship or when she cracks the ground. Most of the fight takes place in the sky
Yeah invincible is trash one of the worst shows i have ever seen lame costume lame powers it tries to have fight scenes like anime but fails remove the gore the drama you got a shitty esg slop. Peoples taste have gone down nowadays its sad
Not true. Mark wants a better work life balance. Not a normal life. This is seen by how he wants to right the wrong of everyone dying and still wanting to be a superhero. Please stop spamming comments
This is not true. My channel analyzes shows and I offer positive and negative criticism. Even in this video I praise episode 3, the atom eve special, and Debbie's internal conflict. If my video offended you I apologize, but if you are intentionally spreading lies, please stop
@@Ultra247 I’ve seen one your videos in the past the one where you shit on jjk my favorite anime and now you hating on my favorite animated show you should praising the writers and people who work on these things you would have way more views if you did
Hahaha I read your comment with a evil villain voice. I appreciate the work that those people put in. However, I don't care for praising everything. I praise where it feels appropriate and give criticism where it also feels appropriate. I hope I could meet you half way and praise something you like tho hahaha. Have a good one man!
@@Ultra247mark was doing good in his early morning crime fighting except when he had ptsd visions and Cecil men was at that fight scene. Cecil wants mark on a short leash better control of him
@@Ultra247Cecil only founded out about Nolans mission in the fight a situation that was out of his hands and out of control he just wants mark on a better leash
When your confirmation bias is so strong, you rewrite reality to a world where you are always right, and everything plays into that idea. You no longer explain. Cope becomes as easy as breathing
@@Ultra247 bro you are delusional, if you name the video "I dont like invincible" it would be perfectly fine, but you dont realise that saying invincible has bad writing means you think everyone around you is wrong for liking it. You rewrite reality to a world where you are always right, and everything plays into that idea. Ironic
@mentallyderangeddude The video pointed out writing issues within the story. These issues exist without me specifically stating them, so I will not change the title. "Means you think everyone around you is wrong for liking it" No, it doesn't. You can disagree with me or appreciate different aspects of the show like the video explains(Atom Eve special, Debbie's character arc, and Allen). You are jumping to conclusions to once again fit your world. Also "appeal to the majority" is not a good argument. If you want to explain why the video is so wrong, you are free to do so, but it seems this video hurt you emotionally, which is understandable if you liked the show. I would recommend not engaging with opinions that differ from you if you are not able to explain how you feel in a productive manner
Is there a take that you disagree with? I am willing to engage with you. If you would like. Also, you are either lying or did not watch the videos. This channel analyzes shows, and I try to maintain a 50/50 split in terms of giving positive and negative criticism. If you scroll to my previous video, there are some positive takes, and if you go before that, it is a negative one. I did this bc I knew I would get a comment like this one day.
Even if the writing isnt great the fact that the quality of writing in american entertainment and media is on average hot dogshit at best automatially puts this series up there with the greats just by virtue of it not being politically motivated brain rot trash meant to actively make you dumber. Invincible is great. The best ever? Hardly. But it is good.
Just bad takes everywhere 💀💀💀
404 error.
@@Ultra247 @Ultra247 the supporting evidence of you having bad takes lies in the like to dislike ratio on your video lmao (17:126 at the time of this reply)
The dislike extension for RUclips is not accurate. The real number is different. So your evidence is not even correct haha
@@Ultra247 whether it's precise or not, it's never too far off. your video has mad dislikes
It's a decent bit off. Is there anything you found wrong with the video that you would like to explain?
My counterargument for mark's problem will be that mark doesn't want to kill like his father. So whenever he loses control and have the urge to kill, he fears himself.
But i still think that sometimes, its irrational fear, such as the moment when he kills armstrong. Yes, mark knows that he was a good guy, but he also should see that he isnt a good guy anymore so he should have no reason to be guilty.
I still think thats not an issue because the show acknowledges this irrational fear of mark thru other characters saying "you aren't your dad"
I thought about that. The problem is why? It would always lead you to Nolan's mission. Nolan does not kill in a vacuum. He is killing as a direct order for a planet that is going against Viltrimite control.
As soon as Nolan's motive is explained then, the narrative of Mark turning into Nolan does not work. If we did not know his motive, then the idea would make sense.
I disagree with the Armstrong part as that also has to do with Mark being able to teleport back home. Mark killing him in that instance would not help him, as the time travel stuff showed.
The "aren't your dad parts" are there bc Mark IS "acting" like his Dad. The idea could work, but it does not make sense. Season two removes all the context of season one.
The irrational fear part also doesn't make sense. Nolan doing what he did is not some virus. Mark even stood up to him and did not back down. Mark has no reason to be scared, and if he was, then the mission given to him should have been the point he took things seriously(or told everyone about).
@@Ultra247how does it not make sense ? When viltrumites get angry they turn bloodlisted which is why they keep saying he’s acting like his dad
@@mazingg2367 Not true. "Bloodlusted" is the uncontrollable anger and desire to kill. No where does Nolan or Mark have an UNCONTROLLABLE desire to kill. When they kill it was a conscience decision. Mark only killed Armstrong bc he thought Armstrong was stronger then he thought and accidently killed him. It was not his intention.
When Nolan fought the guardians, he was completely aware of what he was doing. It was all planned.
Getting angry does not equal "bloodlust".
Anissa also does not kill Mark or Allen so your claim is just incorrect
@@Ultra247”I wanted to kill him but I didn’t know if I could” maybe watch the show you critique next time
Yes Mark wanted to kill him but thought Armstrong was stronger(he did not know Armstrong would die). It was a conscience decision not bloodlust. Mark made an assumption and was wrong.
The original claim was Viltrimites turn bloodlusted when they get angry this is not true. We have seen Nolan and Mark get angry plenty of times and that did not result in someone dying.
I don't know why you are making the assumption that I did not watch the show when my claim is true
I won't lie to you it really doesn't make sense to me why Mark would fear becoming like his dad.
1. Mark was raised in a totally different way while Nolan was raised to become a conqueror for the Viltrum Empire. That's already a lot o difference from the the two of them.
2. Mark literally proves everyone and himself that he isn't like his father in the Season 1 finale once he literally stands up to his father and FIGHTS him to protect his planet.
Considering how he was incredibly outmatched and destroyed by his father it would make a lot more sense if instead of fearing to BECOME LIKE HIS DAD he fears NOT BEING STRONG ENOUGH to protect his planet and the people living in it.
Add in the trauma of Nolan using Mark's body to kill hundreds of people and you got a season worth of internal and external conflicts for Mark to overcome that actually make sense for the story.
Mark would focus 100% of his time on training to become stronger and being a hero which would mean neglecting his personal life with college, friends and family.
That can be explored throughout the whole season.
1. It would explain why he wouldn't listen to Armstrong and force the machine to shutdown resulting in the explosion and death of hundreds of lifes (Armstrong's doppelgangers) and severely deforming Prime Armstrong. This scenario would be a direct consequence of Mark's actions which will come back to haunt him in the finale. It would also make Armstrong's hate towards him make a lot more sense.
2.This would make it harder for him to IMMEDIATELY accept leaving the planet with the bug alien. The bug would notice Mark's resistence and appeal to his humanity by saying that his planet will be destroyed.
That's Mid-Season so Mark would already be stronger than he was once he fought Nolan. He would consult and strategize with Cecil. Cecil doesn't agree he needs Mark here. Mark argues that the whole planet will die if he doesn't help so he goes anyway. That upsets Cecil as he wants to keep Mark close in order to feel in control.
Also the planet would not be in another galaxy that's bullshit. The planet would be like 4 light years away and the bugs would have FTL technology as they are super smart.
3. Mark would still struggle to keep up with the Viltrumites. He would not be holding back and still it wouldn't be enough. He would constantly rely on his father to help him and that would really piss him off. The fight would end with Nolan being taken, Mark badly injured and being assigned to conquer Earth.
4. That experience will put a lot of pressure on him and we should feel that pressure as the audience. This will drive Mark to train even harder to become stronger until we go to the Armstrong fight.
THAT WAS AN AMAZING READ! BEST comment I have seen! Amazing 👏. I'm happy someone gets it. Your comment/suggestions would make the conflict and character align making for a better story.
Edit- you should be a writer hahaha
@@Ultra247 Wow thanks man! I'm really glad you liked it.
It would align so well with Invincible War being a direct consequence of his actions, imagine seeing and fighting versions of yourself doing the exact thing you've been working so hard to prevent. And then there is the Conquest fight, the very thing he's been preparing for over a year, the whole world is at stake now, he's feeling the pressure, he fights mercilessly and yet again he almost dies but this time... this time he finishes the job... this time he is able to protect his planet by killing one of the strongest warriors of the Viltrum Empire.
Now imagine the dread, the tension, the anxiety once Mark finds out that because of Cecil's obsession with being in control Conquest is alive and has alerted the Viltrum Empire that are now in their way to conquer Earth which then will lead to the the Viltrumite War arc. Maaan the chills lol
The dad that he tried to be like turned out to be a monster it’s psychological trauma . Other characters like Cecil give good logical reasons why he wouldn’t be like his dad but that is not gonna automatically change marks belief about himself
i think the point of the marks struggle is that power corrupts, viltrumites are evil because they have so much power that they feel no need to restrain themselves because there is nearly no consequences for their actions. several viltrumites can kill an entire planet and there is barely anything anyone can do. Mark struggles to embrace his power because the moment he gets to expirience power without consequences, he will either conconsciously or subconsciously fall back on this way of acting. Which will in time make him into someone who will disregard rules because they would just be slowing him down. And eventualy he would make mistakes that way. Mistakes that would cost lives.
Interesting idea, but I don't think the show properly executes that idea if that was the point.
Thank you for making this video!
When Invincible s1 came out, I fell in love. It was such a refreshing concept to see: a gritty world of superheroes that doesn't fall into the trap of girmdark. I loved the show so much that I read the comic.
I got about 115 chapters in before i finally put it down. It left such a bad, rotten taste in my mouth that I never wanted to touch another invincible property agian. But even after reading that much, I could never really put into words why I disliked the comics.
"Conflict Over Character"
As you said that, it finally clicked. Invincible puts its external plot conflict over internal chapter consistency. This makes the plot "just happen" to Mark, instead of him actively chasing it. The problem with the story is that he is only reactive to conflict and only becoming proactive when there will be more conflict from his failure.
No problem. The issue isn't really reactive vs proactive. Both ideas can work. The issue is placing conflict where it does not fit. For example, you are reading a story about someone who loves breakfast. Them not getting their breakfast ruins their day(characterization). Let's say a writer took that character and ruined their dinner(conflict). The story then tries to make this a big deal, and the character has ruined their whole day(conflict over characterization).
To us, the audience, we don't see this as a big issue since said character cares about his breakfast, not his dinner. We don't understand how this ruins his day when dinner happens later in the day. In this instance, the conflict is taking priority over the characterization. Conflict and characterization generally should be working to together. With this info, the audience should say, "wait, something is wrong; the writer should be messing up the character's breakfast, not dinner," or "wait, the character should be in love with dinner, not breakfast".
This is Invincible in the second season. The first season does everything pretty well and stuff like Debbie's conflict makes sense in season two. She cares about her husband(characterization), but finds out he is a killer and he thinks of her as a pet(conflict). However, the main storyline of Mark being like his dad was already tackled in season one(Mark's actions), so we have no reason to care about the conflict given Mark's actions in season one.
Thanks for the watch tho. I have not read the comics, but I hope the next season improves. But judging from your comment, it looks like it doesn't haha.
It’s pretty rude for him to say he wants to fix her even if it fits her goal
I think the writing was 9/10. Episode 1 was way better than entire marvel franchise
If you finished the video and still think that, that's great!
You failed to take into account trauma factor. If we take Mark as a severely traumatized individual from all that unfolded it is not even a stretch for him to act this way making down right irrational choices. Like when he got really upset after killing Levy there should not have been that much fear or shoch from his part however a traumatized individual would most definitely feel intense panic after shattering his only cope of "I won't be like my father". This is further seen in his 2 battles with viltrumites where he still clings on delusion that he can do it his way - the way that doesn't resemble his father. As well as him giving up in the battle next to the cruise ship where he downright calls for help because he also has a mental block thinking battling viltrumites is beyond his abillities as he horribly lost the fight vs his father in 1st season which was the traumatic event. In summary - mark is delusional about not wanting to kill and is very scared of viltrumites and doesn't believe he can defeat them. This makes perfect sense and is one of the more rare very pacifistic protagonist stories that actually do make sense. This is not well explored and feels little shallow but subtext is enough to make this excelent. After all - invincible is redefining superhero genre and you can't expect it to be 10/10. I'd give it 7/10.
Ehhh you are reaching a lot but cool idea tho
We have to remember that these characters aren't robots who only follow logic, they have their own morals and feelings that will conflict with that they should logically do. This is why Mark holds back, not because he thinks villians don't deserve to die but because he's too scared to kill them. His fear of becoming like is father is mostly there because that's what the people of earth believe, they're worried that he'll turn out just like omni man which makes sense because they don't know enough about him as a person to understand why he wouldn't. This is best shown with how the immortal tells mark how much he doesn't trust him, logically mark would know he won't turn out like his father but he still worries about it because hes just a person. Mark lashing out and killing angstrom doesn't make him have a breakdown because he didn't want to kill him, like you said he wanted to kill anisa but knew he didn't have the power to so just hit her with all he could. Mark is worried because he doesn't know where to draw the line between not holding back and accidentally killing people because he believes killing a villian is his first step to becoming desensitized to murder, which might lead him to believe omni-mans mission was a good thing and becoming just like him. While omni-man doesn't exactly have a lust for blood he doesn't see murder as a problem which would be just as bad for mark to have those same feelings. I have more to say but I'll only elaborate if you want me to
I'd love to see your interpretation but have some disagreements
1.I don't think I ever argued that these characters should act in the most logical way. I argued that there is a big gap in terms of characterization established in season one and season two throws that out the window.
2. The show does not properly explore Mark's reason for not killing. This is why I used Mob Psycho as an example.
3. They don't know enough about Mark? They know that Mark won't turn bc he fought his father and defended earth. This is something Cecil acknowledged. Immortal should know this as well. It makes no sense and saying "they don't know him" is just poor writing
4.He's just a person? This means nothing.
5.Draw what line? He puts people in danger while fighting Anisa for his own selfish reasons
6. Being desensitized to murder and equating that to his Dad makes no sense given Mark meets his Dad in this very season. Where Nolan regrets his actions
7. Nolan does see murder as a problem. Rewatch the episode where all the aliens die.
The conflict is that mark THINKS he is going to be like omni man because he made it his goal to be like omni man in the first season which was revealed to be a bad person it’s all internal the conflict it isn’t about him actually becoming his dad it is an insecurity or fear that simply comes from trauma . The reason he still fears becoming omni man is that if his dad a great hero can be evil then so can he in his own mind
The video tackles that idea. And I disagree with trauma explanation as Mark literally talks to Omni-man and is able to handle the situation in a mature way.
"The reason he still fears becoming omni man is that if his dad a great hero can be evil then so can he in his own mind"
This makes no sense. We know Omni-man motive. The video addresses all your points. It would be helpful to rewatch it so that you understand the points being made. Thanks for watching!
85-100% of your takes can be explained in the show.
1. We as the audience know that Mark would never be like Nolan. Most of the characters try to convince him of this too except Cecile that one time in the diner. The point is to see Mark grapple with his insecurities and irrational fears
2. Cecile didn't tell Donald that he was a robot because Donald literally told him not to tell him.
3. Cecile wants Mark to be apart of the team however, also wants him to be a somewhat normal human. This is why he shows empathy to Mark and allows him to get time off when things go to shit. Cecile understands that humans need mental breaks and doesn't want Mark to be a soldier ALL the time. This makes even more sense because if Mark was only a soldier without a heart then he has a higher chance of becoming Nolan.
4. Mark definitely holds back. In season 1 he gets angry on at least 2 separate occasions and then beats the crap out of his opponents.
5. Mark holds back because he was raised as a human and knows that he could kill someone. Mark does not want to kill anyone so he instinctually always holds back. Nolan even tells him to stop "fighting like a human" when the Viltrimites come to the alien planet
Overall, bro please rewatch the series. No offense, but you seem to want the show to hold your hand and explain the characters to you or have them as one-dimensional. Almost all the characters in Invincible have depth and nuance, you really have to pay attention though
1. The point is bad. Cecil and Immortal have no reason to compare Mark to Nolan. Mark has no reason to compare himself to his Dad. If the show tackled the idea without the central idea of Nolan, then I would be okay with it
2. Why? Why did Donald do that? Nothing negative comes from knowing that information. You don't even have to watch the videos. All Cecil has to say is, "it was your order". Problem solved. You can't make the mental health argument since his mental is already in ruins. The show makes it out to be more complicated than it is. Rewatched my video and this is EXPLAINED
3. He doesn't want Mark to be a normal human. He wants Mark to listen to him with obedience. Cecil is seen overstepping his boundaries when he tries to tell Mark what to do and when to do it(with his brother and going on missions). Cecil's motives flip from season one to season two. He literally lets Mark become a hero again(when he had concerns about mental health) with no examination or testing while having Immortal on standby This is after the conversation at the diner. Cecil even mentions Mark's hero work and tries to paint it as bad when it has been the best work he has done when compared to season one. You can't say he will be like his Dad, then also say he won't be like his Dad. Nolan didn't even listen to Cecil. It has nothing to do with being a soldier all the time, as Nolan didn't even do his job right(having a child with a human). And suddenly remembers his mission when his son gets powers
4. The video notes he has rage boosts.
5. This idea is not properly shown. Mark is shown putting people at risk when he fights, and he comes across as inexperienced. Mark also fights Anissa and puts other people at risk just so he can try to kill her. Do you see the problem? The moral belief is not treated well. This is why I brought up Mob Psycho 100, which handles the same idea much better. Would you believe someone who said they don't believe in killing but is ok with potentially causing mass casualties due to anger(especially when Annsia was trying to de-escalate the situation)? But holds back for most of the Angstrom fight when his family is in direct danger? Mark is shown to be fast enough to blitz Angstrom when he stops holding back. That questions everything.
He fights Anissa in an big open space and is most of the time away from the civilians he did not put them in harms way
Not true. As they are fighting they have civilians right next to them. They literally start running away
@@Ultra247I rewatched the scene . When they start fighting their at the front of the ship while the civilians are coming out of the side. Only time they are close to danger is when anissa throws mark threw the ship or when she cracks the ground. Most of the fight takes place in the sky
Ok? They are still putting people at risk and you made the claim that they did not put them in harms way
@@Ultra247 yes but not intentionally and it's really low risk
..... If you want a discussion, I am all for it. But if you want to feel better by trying to defend a show that you like I'm not interested in that
Yeah invincible is trash one of the worst shows i have ever seen lame costume lame powers it tries to have fight scenes like anime but fails remove the gore the drama you got a shitty esg slop.
Peoples taste have gone down nowadays its sad
The school conflict matters because mark wants a normal life
Not true. Mark wants a better work life balance. Not a normal life. This is seen by how he wants to right the wrong of everyone dying and still wanting to be a superhero. Please stop spamming comments
Just every video this guy make is a bad take and reading the comments it seems people agree bro hates everything
And I don’t even gotta watch the video the title itself is horrible
This is not true. My channel analyzes shows and I offer positive and negative criticism. Even in this video I praise episode 3, the atom eve special, and Debbie's internal conflict. If my video offended you I apologize, but if you are intentionally spreading lies, please stop
@@Naturalselection-uf4sn "And I don’t even gotta watch the video the title itself is horrible"
*Facepalm*
@@Ultra247 I’ve seen one your videos in the past the one where you shit on jjk my favorite anime and now you hating on my favorite animated show you should praising the writers and people who work on these things you would have way more views if you did
Hahaha I read your comment with a evil villain voice. I appreciate the work that those people put in. However, I don't care for praising everything. I praise where it feels appropriate and give criticism where it also feels appropriate. I hope I could meet you half way and praise something you like tho hahaha. Have a good one man!
Cecil wants mark to take a break because what’s the point of a warrior that is in the wrong mental state and can be easily ticked off
Bro please watch the video and pay attention
@@Ultra247mark was doing good in his early morning crime fighting except when he had ptsd visions and Cecil men was at that fight scene. Cecil wants mark on a short leash better control of him
@@Ultra247Cecil only founded out about Nolans mission in the fight a situation that was out of his hands and out of control he just wants mark on a better leash
He showed Donald the truth because Donald already knows he is a robot
@@Ultra247Cecil withhelds the info that Donald died so Donald doesn't go crazy or freaks out
it's amazing how it seems like you barely understand anything about writing characters but act like you do
Can you explain? You can probably help me
I agree with this video. I think invincibles plot is its biggest problem.
dont even have to watch the video, the title is just objectively wrong and clickbait (it worked) and no, i wont look up any invincible review
When your confirmation bias is so strong, you rewrite reality to a world where you are always right, and everything plays into that idea. You no longer explain. Cope becomes as easy as breathing
@@Ultra247 bro you are delusional, if you name the video "I dont like invincible" it would be perfectly fine, but you dont realise that saying invincible has bad writing means you think everyone around you is wrong for liking it. You rewrite reality to a world where you are always right, and everything plays into that idea. Ironic
@mentallyderangeddude The video pointed out writing issues within the story. These issues exist without me specifically stating them, so I will not change the title.
"Means you think everyone around you is wrong for liking it"
No, it doesn't. You can disagree with me or appreciate different aspects of the show like the video explains(Atom Eve special, Debbie's character arc, and Allen). You are jumping to conclusions to once again fit your world. Also "appeal to the majority" is not a good argument.
If you want to explain why the video is so wrong, you are free to do so, but it seems this video hurt you emotionally, which is understandable if you liked the show.
I would recommend not engaging with opinions that differ from you if you are not able to explain how you feel in a productive manner
This is such good rage bait 😂😂🤣
This guy has so many bad takes and his whole entire channel is just shitting on popular animes to seem different
U can always elaborate your points. why u think this take is bad
Is there a take that you disagree with? I am willing to engage with you. If you would like.
Also, you are either lying or did not watch the videos. This channel analyzes shows, and I try to maintain a 50/50 split in terms of giving positive and negative criticism. If you scroll to my previous video, there are some positive takes, and if you go before that, it is a negative one. I did this bc I knew I would get a comment like this one day.
He ain't wrong here. The whole "I will become like my father" is typical drama nonsense.
it makes sense if you actually paid attention to the story. It’s not nonsense at all.
@@jeffreyali3644 Are you referring to the video? If so can you explain?
Even if the writing isnt great the fact that the quality of writing in american entertainment and media is on average hot dogshit at best automatially puts this series up there with the greats just by virtue of it not being politically motivated brain rot trash meant to actively make you dumber. Invincible is great. The best ever? Hardly. But it is good.
Just because you have a different opinion doesn't mean it a good one.
Can you explain your issue?
I equate mark to gohan from dragon ball
Boy, not a big channel and also throwing out crappy takes. Thats risky 😂
It won't be the last haha