I think you forgot to mention Hughie. Even though he is considered weak in superhuman standards and loss of loved ones in the most gruesome fashion, he never lost hope and has built a character we can all strive to be.
Hughie definitely appears to be the main character of the show as it seems like the viewer is seeing the world through his eyes the most throughout the seasons
@@SpacewinterknightWhich is in keeping with his role in the comics. It's important to note that even with how vile the stories in both the show or comics gets, Hughie remains at the center of it all managing to hold onto some level of virtue and sanity even as others succumb to the savagery of his world, even at times where he himself loses his way. If Butcher is a more brutal Jack Sparrow, then Hughie is a kinder Will Turner, the heart of their respective franchises.
Homelander started off semi-realistic then started being cartoonishly evil as the series progressed, at this point, he acts more cartoonishly evil than actual villains.
Weirdly one of Omni-Man's lines in Mortal combat works perfectly here, 'Power doesn't corrupt, it enables' and if that isn't the tag line for these two shows I don't know what else could be.
It's true. Power never actually corrupted people, it just revealed a corrupt part of them that was ALWAYS there. Give a man enough power, and he'll be more honest than anyone you've ever known.
@@Ninja07Keaton i mean... not always... to be more accurate, raising environment is what shapes person to be corrupted or not, unless they were born psychopath, then no amount of proper raising or therapy will instill empathy or indifferent mentality
If I had a nickle for every time somebody made a violent comic book not linked to Marvel/DC that parodied popular superheroes, which eventually got adapted into an Amazon Prime TV series that spawned a bunch of memes, which only elevated their popularity until one of the main antagonists was eventually put into Mortal Kombat 1 as guest DLC characters, then I'd have two nickles, which isn't a lot, but it's strange that it happened twice.
That one scene with Homelander and Ryan makes me feel so bad with Ryan. Him saying "Why am I not good enough for you" breaks me but man he's such and irredeemable person
What how? In that rant he also said "I've given you everything I've wanted" showing he isn't concerned with doing what Ryan wants or what would make him happy but what would make homelander happy...
@@TerraJ-ug6ncI think it’s more complex than just flat out narcissism. Ryan serves as a way for Homelander to move past his past childhood trauma while that same trauma also motivates him to be the father he literally never had. Homelander genuinely wants to give his son the upbringing he never had but due to personal ‘issues,’ he isn’t exactly the best father.
@@cucaelhombre And it's that trauma of being experimented on and his fixation on status that makes him doomed to never fully connect with his son, because he isn't able to separate what's good for Ryan from what he wants for himself and Ryan. Ryan never asked to be a celebrity, but Homelander thought Ryan should be one, should be like him, and he's frustrated that Ryan would be anything more than just his.
@@TerraJ-ug6nc I can see that read, but like the others said, the show very clearly shows he also wants to be a good father to Ryan, in part because his trauma motivates him for Ryan to have better. Doing what makes you happy for another person is a way of giving them what you view as better, because that's how you would want to be treated, so maybe they would too.
@@franciscoOrellana29invincible lost 50 percent of its sauce when it decided to take 3 years to make 8 episodes with sub par animation and an unnecessary 4 month hiatus midway
@@ztsyib4126 The fuck was sub par about season 2's animation? Also the reason that it had a 4 month hiatus midway through was because the crew making the show had one of two options, ether release the show with a large hiatus in the middle or delay the show yet again for several months so they could release episodes weekly. They knew that they kept fans waiting long enough as is, so they chose the first option. People said same thing when Attack on Titan took 4 years to release season 2. But not only did seasons 3 and 4 come out much sooner in comparison, but now that is one of the most peak stories ever told in the history of fiction.
Another thing that needs to be brought up are the mindsets of each creator. The Boys was created by Garth Ennis. A man who hates the entire concept of Superheroes. His deconstruction of the genre was always intended to be mean-spirited and cynical. Invincible was created by Robert Kirkman and he’s the polar opposite. His deconstruction does explore dark subject matter, but it has more optimism with its characters and story. Whichever take you prefer? That’s up to you. I personally prefer Invincible more.
It should be noted the Boys comic and Tv show while obviously having the same characters are vastly different from eachother while the comic is basically a hate letter to super heroes the tv show changes it up a bit and mocks irl media while having its mostly own take on these characters which imo is WAAAY better then the comic
Same. The Boys (TV show) may be a safer settin' for the Average Joe Six Pack because you don't have to worry about alien invasions or neighborhoods bein' destroyed by Superheroes fightin' Supervillains in no holds barred battles, but Invincible ain't cynical crap that has devolved into ham-fisted politics and Shock Value For The Sake Of Shock Value.
Yeah, regardless of how many powers you have, don't get arrogant and be smart, otherwise it's death, even if you think the world is full of regular humans, who knows if there's a batman in the real world, you sure don't, Batman hides in the shadows, you never see him coming
@@daquaviousbingleton9763 it is not, that what the comment meant. And Viltrumites still can die. But since Invincible is the Named Character of the Show, he kinda has some plot-armor in that he should not die.
@@Crazy_SchizoI mean the boys is very political… it makes fun of everyone on the political spectrum. Mostly people who are extremists. And not all of it is realism it’s straight up parody most the time with touches of shit that’s a bit too real
These two shows really reinvigorated my interest in the superhero genre. I’ve always wanted a more grounded superhero story and both these shows present two amazing different takes on this deconstruction. The ending of Invincible’s first episode had my jaw on the floor for weeks
I used to fantasize about being a superhero when I was a kid during 2010’s MCU. I wanted to be as powerful and virtuous as the characters I watched during my marvel phase. But then I grew up and became less interested in clean characters as I began to experience the real world with all of its corruption and violence. When I discovered the boys and invincible this year, it felt like a breath of fresh air as I felt like I can relate to the superhero world again. Watching those super powerful figures and the people who live under “their protection” experience the struggles of so many people nowadays allowed me to reflect more on the morals and ethics I was taught when I was kid and reevaluate the concept of goodness but with more maturity. Great video, you hit all the points ❤
Wtf what u say sound to me like, I liked good things and true virtue when I was a children and now that I became a bit more adult I became less interested in full good people and wanted to reevaluate good concepts you were taught before? Like unless you had cartoonishly evil characters in your life influencing you I don't think reevaluation of doing good things is needed
@@-Hexag0nI think what they’re saying is they grew up on Marvel and DC with generally simple moral values. Trust institutions like the police. Any bad cops are just bad apples in the system. Then they grew up and saw how hideously corrupt the institutions are through and through and the likes of The Boys and Invincible reflect this
Damn 💯 this is a perfect verbal response of how I feel also. Not only did the character flaws and violence draw me into these shows, overall it was the REALISM. In real life everything isn’t always clean and not everyone is always good; and it definitely was refreshing for these shows to portray superheroes through a more mature and real lens.
The only way to save dc is to let the peopple that make the animated shows and movies make the life action ones, cause the animated dc movies are better in my opinion.
@@decoyaccount6 depending on what franchise you're looking at, because for what I think that Zack Snyder was trying to do which is understanding but it will never work out with the studio themselves, although animated movies has been very well made unlike Marvel since it's on my Disney and the only thing they did manage to climb back up is X-Men 97 which is quite successful. But since that writer is fired it's going to go downhill for season 2
17:28 Claiming Homelander and Omniman are more realistic personalities than Captain America and Superman is a pretty crazy take in my opinion. Clark Kent is a farm boy raised in Kansas who's parents taught him the value of helping others, and Steve Rogers is just a kid who grew up in Brooklyn and was inspired by his best friend and a strong sense of justice to join the army. Homelander is a deranged narcissist raised in a lab, and Omniman is a brainwashed sycophant raised in a world of constant war and combat. Superman and Captain America are by far the most normal of these four. They're certainly idealistic, but even on a less idealistic level you'd have a character much closer to Mark from Invincible than Omniman or Homelander. I don't see how anyone can watch these villains with dramatic and fantastical backstories and go "Yeah that seems a lot more realistic than growing up on a farm or in Brooklyn."
I agree by far. Mark is a FAAAR more realistic take on a teenage superhero than Omni Man or Homelander. I love Superman and Captain America, and I’m always of the opinion that edgy is great, but edgy can never be better than just pure kindheartedness.
Their backstory has nothing to do with how they are portrayed and the decisions they make in the story. aka: it doesn't matter how "normal" they are, it's not realistic
Omniman is very realistic in so far that he is a brainwashed, ideologically poisoned man who has lived in the absence of a real culture for hundreds of years, who slowly deconstructs from his brainwashing once he comes to Earth and lives among real people. Which turns out to be a trend among Viltrumites, funnily enough. Its both realistic in that it happens to him and in terms of Viltrumite culture being that way in the first place, because "we are strong, therefore everyone else is worthless" is a braindead idea to begin with. At the season one climax, when pressed to convince Mark, Omniman is so incredibly unable to actually defend his ideology, or make ANY coherent point ro argument, it is almost laughable. And the best part about it, I am pretty much convinced at this point that this was completely unintentional by the author.
Imo, but Captain America is not perfect. He is an idealist, yes, and such people also exist, but there are just so few of them that it is less believable than a psychopath like Homelander.
I prefer “nobody’s perfect” to the edgy “there’s no such thing as good people” while you can argue they’re the same statement, it’s the tone that makes all the difference. And these shows do that.
I still the best comic I’ve read where heroes were portrayed with realistic human flaws was rising stars. You didn’t have cackling mad men who delighted in slaughter but one hero who was a womanizer with a big of an ego who got himself in a compromising situation and had everything spiral out of control while trying to cover his ass. He hit rock bottom when he got a bunch of people killed and spent the rest of his life trying to make things right. A couple of characters who were extremely weak willed and manipulated by others that grew a spine when it mattered most. Hell even the villains weren’t inherently evil. For all that stories cynicism there was an underlying theme that everyone has the capacity for goodness, some of us just loose our way.
The main difference between The Boys and Invincible is that Invincible is unironically more realistic despite having way more outlandish comic book logic sometimes. But despite the differences in the portrayal of how these fictional worlds opperate both teach the viewer a lot about very real and human things. The Boys tv show really was able to save that ridiculous, unrealitsic pessimism from the original comic version of itself and make it work in a new style of storytelling where it is kinda similar to our real world but whatever can go wrong goes wrong and people just gotta suck it up and survive with all of the consequences of everyone with super powers being either a degenerate (not kinkshaming) or a maniac or both. To contrast, in Invincible you have different people still being themselves with or without superpowers, making different types of mistakes rather than just getting powerhungry and thinking themselves as gods. It is more how it would work in real life because we already have "super powered" people living and contributing to society in different ways. I am talking about people with predispositions for art, for science, for activism and others, people with talents are real life superhumans. Just look at an incredibly "powerful" artist or a scientist and realize how exactly a real person would act if they got a lantern ring or got mutated into a musclebound giant. That is particularly why I think it is very interesting to see how both shows, one with real actors while being less realistic and another fully animated while being closer to reality, portray different types of nowadays human problems, individual and global. This deconstruction of what it means to be better than others, to earn more in life or be gifted something others do not have is very important and valuable as it shows that no matter how strong or smart or interesting you might be but you are still a human. An invulnerable "god" patrior Homelander is a human no matter how much he tries to kill off his humanity. A warmonger alien able to literally wipe out humanity Omniman is still a human in soul. Billy Butcher is a human fidning new familiar connections in the son of a superhero he hates before spiraling down the rabit hole of becoming more of an animalistic monster hellbent on destroying a type of people he blames his life on. Mark Greyson slowly accepts more and more of the parts of himself most other people would never even dream of reaching the level of eventually transcending past his humanity but not forgeting its values and teachings, keeping morality and order while using overwhling inhuman force to keep this order as a benevolent balance for all. These parallels teach us how to live in the world where super powers work less flashy but can be used for the progress of the whole world, the deeper you dig the more you realize just how lucky we are to have so much good fiction guiding us forward.
With all due respect, I disagree with your take on realism of Invincible (comparing to The Boys). Specifically, your comparison of people with predispositions for different activities (i.e. "real life superhumans") with people who have the ability to (in theory) wipe out the whole city in minutes is very shaky imo. People behave differently in different circumstances, so it's very weird to say that, for example, the prodigy in art who stayed a good person will most likely stay the same nice figure (or at least will not become a monster) if he will get a some kind of superpower. These are VERY different situations in which a person can exist, and saying that we have a real life multiple examples of very smart people who are not crazy scientists with desire to destroy the world is the argument for Invincible's realism is very questionable. And your another take about unrealistic pessimism of The Boys with people sucking up every terrible act that supes do... I mean, you do see what happens in the world? People are afraid to go against those who have power, who are in charge, even if it would make their life potentially better, because there is a big possibility that if people will decide to go againts those with power, then they will lose everything and will be punished by people in charge. That's kinda how the world works.
You call it "animalistic" but other animals have never been as destructive or violent as we are, so who is really the monster here? Maybe stop using them as your punching bag
There are a fairly large number of people with talents (superpowers) that misuse their talents. Take science for example. There are large number of instances in the scientific community where they've suppressed new emerging theories because they threaten the life work of other well known scientists. While this is detrimental to science in general, it's to be expected; imagine having your life's work rendered useless because you've been basing it on an old theory that someone else proves to be false or obsolete. You also can't discount scientists who manipulate the results of their studies, whether by presenting the information in a way that makes their hypothesis look correct or by skewing their data or by limiting their tests to multiple smaller studies and picking the ones that prove their point. And let's not forget the fact that it costs money to run elaborate tests. Investors and companies are not going to fund anything that isn't profitable or allow a theory to gain traction that is detrimental to their bottom line. As for activists, there are many that demand changes that would benefit them or their beliefs, discounting how it will effect the rest of the country or world. Yes, there are good activist, but the louder, more ruthless, more conniving are the ones who get the best results. Look how it has played out in feminism. There are some that want equality of the sexes, but there are many others that wish to have more rights than men and openly hate men. What's worse is when activist take advantage of others desire for change to profit, like the Black Lives Matter movement; the leaders of that movement are now rich (or richer) thanks to all the money that was generated through donation with very little actual change occurring. And look at the whole woke movement, how it has influenced our entertainment, lecturing the audience through tv shows and movies. There are many other fields with talented people that have similar problems, like the medical field refusing to acknowledge (or even look into) other fields outside of western medicine that show potential, choosing instead to medicate patients when they can't find the answer to their problems.
@@wiswc With progress come new negatives and some people using the immense evolutionary adventages to abuse the world less developed around them are also a byproduct of the planet having too many people on it for a huge (in our individual sights) amount of them to not be the bad apples out of the whole enormous bunch. If animals had guns they would have been more destructive towards each and the world than the humans just because of them not realising the negatives this destruction brings on a moral scale and literal scale. The very concept of smth being "destructive" or a "monster" comes from our human understanding that preserving balance is overall "good" so the fact you are saying that animals are less monstrous than us is not just wrong (as animals partake in insanely violent activities on the regular) but also defeats itself as your humanity is what makes you able to see smth being destructive as a problem in the first place. Also I love animals, dunno why you thought I was shittalking them.
@@aWalkThroughLife Look, you talked about potential ways very particular professions can lead people to be bad in different ways, most untrue and kinda boogieman-ish in comparison on how people in those fields actually operate (especially the scientific community) but clearly you are just focusing on the outlyers that do not show the whole face of the world you are trying to paint. 8 billion people are on one planet, obviously even if a 0.01 of them were bad apples it would already be millions of people. It is difficult to see the good when you focus on the loud bad apples. Overall we are living in the safest and most progressive (in all senses) time the world and especially humanity has ever seen. Each month we discover stuff so groundbreaking people from 400 years ago would have been calling it magic. In fact we discover so much stuff and make such good progress in all spheres of living and culture that it does not even make the mainstream news anymore, our very own standards for globally important news had risen just because of how much of it there is. (also just a personal gripe with what you are saying but uhhh "woke movement"? Brother, go outseide and talk with different people, we live in a time when ya can do that so start using the advantages of progress before the world gets too advanced for ya to catch up to it. Maybe ya will start seeing my optimistic points more when ya actually get in contact with the inculculable good the world can give you now.)
Logan kind of does all of them to an extent, even with the parody aspect hidden in his disgust with the comics making his life and past events to be more cheery than his current situation
You basically summarized everything perfect about these two shows and how it appeals to such a wide audience despite how gruesome it can be at times. These two shows have been my favorite thing to come out post Endgame. It really is refreshing to see people struggle and overcome those struggles or even fail at times. Humanity at it's core is flawed and a Human Superhero wouldn't be perfect either.
The Boys isn't realistic. It's a parody. It's not really about 'what if supes were real?' It's more like 'what if supes were products of a insanely rich disney-like monopoly?'
@@friedfrog5447 True, but the boys are still not realistic in any way, shape or form. The franchise merely substitutes unrealistic levels of heroism and self sacrifice with unrealistic levels of gore and douchebaggery.
@Alexander_Kale If you think the boys is unrealistic, you haven't payed attention to the real world at all. So many real world events people, and places are directly parodies. And the douchebaggery is perfectly realistic.
@@friedfrog5447 If you think the boys is realistic, it is YOU who hasn't paid attention to the real world. The idea of super heroes not having a presence in the military for example is total hogwash. That is THE FIRST place that would have had super powered individuals, and the show's justification for this not being the case is hogwash. It is a darker, edgier and overall gorier deconstruction of traditional super hero comics. it is not "more realistic".
I absolutely love seeing creators with smaller audiences get the recognition they deserve from the algorithm. Your explanation is brilliant, my friend. Thank you for so eloquently highlighting what makes these two shows stand out compared to other pieces of media in the superhero genre.
8:20 I think my favorite part of Invincible season 2 was the first episode where every time someone was about to say invincible, the title card just didn't happen, it was great
The Boys and Invincible came out at the right time. Watchmen should have come out now. AFTER when Superheroes have become mainstream. That is when you can hit with satire effectively. The Watchmen TV show was effective. Ppl complained it was too political but that was the purpose of the comic: Politics. It was a very political comic. I also think Ppl miss the selfless Superman of the Animated Series or even the 1940s. Sure people are Edgelords or skeptical but there are ppl who enjoy these stories of Good and Evil. I also see people missing out on the Bat Family Sagas. Batman itself is a Universe you can explore without an extended Universe. Mainstream heroes from DC have so many unexplored areas.
I especially like that one animated Superman movie where a bunch of "evil" superheroes try to prove that Superman is not incorruptible by doing bad shit to make him snap, only for Superman to snap and it's like the scariest 20 minutes of my 13yo life (but he was just pranking them in actuality)
Well... your right she never pretended to have left-leaning views, but she did have liberal aesthetics and a populist message. (Liberalism isn't a leftist ideology but I digress)
Thats the boys tho. These supes are conservative technically but they do a lot of things liberals do. Its making fun of the extreme on both sides lmao.
I think the scene where Homelander deafens the blind guy was one of the the worst things we see him do, not necessarily because of the severity or the scale of the violence, but because there was very little to no reason behind it, he just did it.
14:21 The thing that really makes Homelander imo probably the best villain I have seen in any piece of fiction is how complex he is. He is both irredemable and a monster but at the same time still human and you can also understand what were the causes for him being the way he is. You have some sort of sympathy for him while at the same time you also fear, are disturbed by and despise him. He's the type of villain you love to hate, that has so many layers to his character.
So really glad someone made this video. Got into both before the shows came out but the shows do the whole “superhero’s in the real world” soooo much better. Instantly loved invincible in the first scene where we see the 2 guards just bantering about superheroes same as we would. Even the comic con type stuff or all the marketing and merchandising in the boys that plays Vought like the Star Wars or the mcu where yu literally see it everywhere from sodas to chip bags. Just love when they do it and hope we’ll see more stuff like it in other superhero media
I think you made some pretty good points and I believe that there are two more (that come to my mind) when it comes to these shows. Subverting expectations, and playing around with tropes, without necessarily relying on them to build a narrative
This has to be some of the most well designed video essays regarding a comparison between The Boys and Invincible on something all too complex and subtle for anyone to immediately pick up on retold into something anyone can easily understand. You sir, got a gift. and a new sub and like ;)
You definitely hit a lot of solid points, good job on this. I believe you should have mentioned how Hughie always tries to be good but he ultimately ends up doing some immoral acts to get his job done. You could have compared him with Mark but it wasn’t a missing piece to this video or anything. You definitely got my subscription.
I’m glad you enjoyed the vid! And I totally agree! Even though people have said season 4 dropped off in quality, I still think it’s one of the best tv shows on air right now.
13:00 yes and no. People are tired of it but not entirely, say superman for 1 example. People are tired of the injustice or recent movies of him being portray. He evil and the movies are darker (both figurative and literally) but lately people been wanting the superman from the 90's cartoon. The better man of tomorrow type. But MCU styles is definitely run it courses. I think in near future we are gonna get superhero movies more focus on inspiring people and doing more justice. Not so much on fighting since we basically had our filled
You make some great points! I do think these darker stories will go out of fashion just like the MCU era of films has. I think a focus on more inspirational and heroic stories would be a great avenue-especially in today’s climate. I’d love to see some more optimistic stories. Very curious to see how James Gunn’s Superman is received because that definitely seems like a return to the classic Superman archetype. I just hope he does something different than try to emulate the early MCU, because I don’t think that’ll be enough imo. We shall see…
@@ryan-jamison To an extent I think other than personal tastes a story being dark or not doesn't really matter if the story is well written and able to handle that well. When people talk about MCU films for an example, a lot of the criticism isn't the tone but usually actual flaws with the writing of the films themselves.
Idk why I hate Superman because they act as if he's holier than thou and as if he's not an alien and he'd gaf about humans... They treat him like shit his entire life who goes thru that and is like let's be their hero now
When I was a kid and my friends asked me who I liked more Superman or Batman I always said Batman (well because he’s awesome but) because I thought Superman was just a boring character , I thought they just made a really powerful guy with almost no weaknesses ... It was years later I realized they didn’t just make him for the sake of making an OP character , he is supposed to be a role model , especially those with power to not abuse it and let it corrupt themselves .. he is one of the most powerful characters in the dc universe , he doesn’t need to be good , heck being good has probably hurt him a lot more but despite having no reason he still chooses to be good , to do the right thing .. the boys and invincible did a great job at making superheroes more realistic (in character at least ) but I still believe we need classic superhero stories , not to be a representation of reality but to serve as a moral beacon to us all
Their literally my two favorite shows at the moment for the exact reason you said last, they take the super human and add the human, it’s a special art to do, they both do it very well, keeps the reality of it all
There is also a sense of danger. If you feel the good guy will always win, you don’t have to worry. In these shows you’re always wondering if they will and is anyone safe.
Hi. Just hear to say that if you like stories that reconstruct the superhero genre i recommend reading Worm and Warden by wildbow. It's the greatest "what if superheroes were real?" Story i have ever read. And WAAAAY to underrated.
I have a character I created that is a being of ultimate power and I can currently count how many characters are and can come close to his power on one hand. The one thing that keeps him from losing himself to his power is that he already has in a time before the story takes place and you see him pity others at his level and below going through what he already dealt with centuries before.
This is one of the best videos I've seen in a while. I love it when superheroes meet real life politics and the deep phycology behind them. Keep up the good work
Invincible was the first superhero show i watched that actually made me react physically, and to such a degree that my friend who introduced me to it was concerned lmao. It hit me because i went in expecting something like every other animated superhero show, or well, western animated shows in general (not a huge anime fan). Ive never been a marvel or dc fan, never cared for comics. But I enjoy animation, and animated characters a stories. The first time I was hit with graphic gore, myy jaw fuckin dropped. And seeing Invincible on his first day of the job, and being hit with the reality that yeah, this isnt just saving the day and being a hero. This is real shit and every second you waste freaking out is another life lost. That notion was just.. completely new for me for a superhero show. And it really put my expectations 6 feet under. It paints a new persective on the genre, one that isnt so watered down. Not to say that other shows and movies are light-hearted fun and games, they have their dark and serious moments. But many of the things touched on in this series are just handwaved in others. You dont think about it. Invincible, especially season one hits you with the searing reality of what these "heros" are and what they're going through and what their lives are really like. The trauma, the personal life issues, the fractured families. It was such a breath of fresh air for me with this genre. And a shock. Then season 2 comes. After a full season of the constant in-your-face visuals and reality, this season was just pure catharsis, for most of it. And im glad. It gave time to process wtf happened. And seeing the aftermath of all the action, not just for the main characters, but for the world, was an experience. God I love this show. Cant wait for season 3.
Holy crap I love this video essay I hope I can write stuff as good as this video. I really enjoy both of these shows and I really wasn't able to say why, but you really hit the nail on the head with your words. I enjoyed this video very much.
You can absolutely write stuff just like this. Nothing special about me LOL The writing advice I always live by is to just START. Can’t edit a blank page 🤷🏻♂️
This is a great video essay! I love both shows. I do want to add an a honorable mention but X-Men 97 while it’s not violent it does touch on some of the themes as well… which is why everyone loves it. And it’s probably one of the best things Marvel has put out since Endgame
This was good. Your last line - "Yet a trend among all of them is that they take the superhuman and embrace the human" made me think of the story that took the superhuman and rejected the human: Miracleman. It's a deconstruction of Captain Marvel and well worth the read.
Personally I feel that Kick Ass needs to be the next animated series in this genre. I'm a fan of those comics honestly and what makes that universe tend to work is the fact that nobody has actual powers, but they just dress up as heroes
One is what happens when real physics applies to traditional superheroes, the other is what happens when real people are given the powers of traditional superheroes.
Sheesh 💯 this is a perfect video of how I feel also. Not only did the character flaws and violence draw me into these shows, overall it was the REALISM. In real life everything isn’t always clean and not everyone is always good; and it definitely was refreshing for these shows to portray superheroes through a more mature and real lens. You hit it on the NOSE with this video 🔥 great work !!
3:43 nahh. This show is also still a fairy tale, an on camera gruesome fairy tale that is. Other pg superheroes shows indeed have gruesome deaths but it’s off camera. There’s no “reality” in a setup settings made by people’s imaginations.
Late comment, but I just wanted to let you know that I appreciated the gag of “do you think I missed the mark” at 18:43 and the b roll in the background is mark getting his rib cage flattened.
its not a problem of superheroes, its a problem of writing. Just because theres a handful of bad action movies doesnt mean that action movies have become bad, theyre still good, its just that some of the writers and directors of those movies suck
The writing and the editing for this video is really top-notch. I could see how much thought was put into each clips selected for the video! Amazingly well done, imma binge your other vids now lol
This was a pretty great video! I'm honestly not great at picking up on the subtletities of writing so a lot of Invincible flew over my head and the more explicitness of The Boys clouds my deeper understanding of things of notions like that of humanity and why I like it so much. This video made me realize a lot of that. Good work!
I think it's important to mention that homelander knew and acknowledged that lifting a plane isn't feasible because the smallness of his body would just pierce through the massive plane because he is indestructible the plane isn't.
Holy shit this is one of the fucking best videos I have fucking seen wtf this hit hard and all of this is all so fucking real wtf man you fucking cooked with this holy shit man
Yeah, because nobody with power would ever want to be a good person, am I right? The corporations are already super powerful from the start, so that just makes me wonder where the tension is. (This is just a me-problem.) I keep wondering how much of this praise is from people who want to use the MCU as a scapegoat.
Here's an idea I've come to: Having powers doesn't make you a superhero. Being a good person does. Look at say, Wally West from Justice League Unlimited. In the episode where his villains try to take him down, it's shown to us that Wally is generally a good guy around Central City. He helps certain people with things like painting their fences or stopping to say hi to some dudes fishing or make a kid smile. He even refers to them by name which, meaning he has a slight personal connection to them Powers don't make the person, it just enhances them. Any super powered person can stop a bus from going off a highway, but not everyone is going to stop that bus because it's the right thing to do. That's the important part about powers. You need to have intent before you do something with them. Omni-Man may have been a hero to earth, but that was just so he could slip under the radar and wipe out the Guardians of the Globe. Homelander is basically Superman, so that gives him the authority to do whatever he wants because who's going to stop him? Any super powered person can do anything they want, but they need motive behind it to make them either be a hero, or a villain. After all, powers don't make you who you are. They simply show the world who you are.
This was such a great video and made me realize that these superhero shows aren’t trying to do what other superhero shows are doing by glorifying themselves or the world where they live in, but showing how tragic the world can be when you’re given unlimited power (superpowers for example) The human aspect of a superhero show or movie is critical in the relatability between the characters and ourselves, even in a fictional universe. Props to you for making such a thoughtful and well executed video!!! 🫶🏽
I think the most underappreciated part of Invincible, is how they deconstruct superhero relationships. They were actually doing this since episode one with Red Rush, but by season 2 they demonstrate and state pretty clearly that a superhero having a good romantic relationship with a non-super is nearly impossible. Amber feels guilty and hurt through their whole relationship because she feels like it's wrong to put her own feelings before the good of everyone Mark wants to save. Really, a superhero is much more likely to have a healthy relationship with another superhero, someone who has the same sort of responsibilities, who isn't at much risk to be used as a helpless pawn, who can spend time with them while they're in costume, so they aren't so constantly lonely.
Ive actually been brainstorming a comic im going to invest into that takes the concept of REAL superheroes who become corrupted by fame, money, drugs, etc. Yeah you're gonna say "Thats just the boys?" No. I mean basically the Justice League running organized crime, peddling drugs, people, guns. Suoer villains unironically being more redeemable. Basically if you took what DC comics does and had them all become pieces of shit. For example: Id want a captain america type as their leader BUT he has powers like superman that he is told to keep to himself as it doesnt fit his "Public hero brand" So imagine highly trained, highly intelligent captain America but he's basically a mafia syndicate boss with superman powers he keeps hidden from the public. Focusing less of violence and more of the power of corruption, and the main characters fighting would be anti heroes who were in prison for their crimes. Basically Bad people vs worse people. Alot like the boys and invincible except Id want REAL superheroes and REAL supervillains and the "Evil Superman" type would be more captain America blended with Hugo Strange and a bit of Ra's Al Ghul. Highly trained, highly educated. Basically if Homelander was a super genius and had a lifetime of proper training. Alot less accidental deaths and alot more intimidation and wrath. TL:DR I want to do a similar concept except the motivations of the "heroes" will be extremely simple and greedy rather than them all having flaws and weird kinks/fetishes. Just regular people who become corrupted with their positions and think they are gods protecting innocents while running crime, gangs and even murdering supervillains when they get sick of their shit. Naturally born or occuring powers + accidents + Aliens Taking a true comic book aesthetic and feel and adapting it into a gritty thriller about anti heroes trying to not be shitty people
I want to write a superhero novel where the main character is a truly good person and a superhero (he’ll have flaws obviously) and he has a girlfriend who is a normal but also very good person, almost perfect. She will get powers that corrupt her, and the hero will essentially have to watch her become an awful homelander/omni man type villain. Instead of discovering someone is an awful person, the main character will have to deal with someone they love becoming a villain.
@@CommiePieYes and I did like the idea of them genuinely being heroes and overtime they just completely lose the plot. I like to imagine the vibe would be a populated superhero world like Marvel and DC but one that has been extremely normalized I hope I can actually commit to an idea but I struggle to write content that can lean into darker stuff because I don't like writing dark stuff, but it heavily depends on the characters. Eitherway, I wouldn't want to be over satirical like the boys or overly violent like Invincible. Plus, I would want their movies and fake stuff to actually look produced by a company because I love the boys but they always make their fake content look super cheap intentional or not it doesn't feel realistic for marketing to me But thank you! I love feedback both good and bad
With the more realistic approach to superhero media that these shows make, I’d definitely like to see an essay from you about My Adventures with Superman’s idealistic return to form for the superhero medium.
Subbed, awesome video topic, stoppee ar 2:31 because I don't wanna spoil these shows for myself, gonna watch them eventually, saves the video to a playlist for later!
I think you forgot to mention Hughie. Even though he is considered weak in superhuman standards and loss of loved ones in the most gruesome fashion, he never lost hope and has built a character we can all strive to be.
Yeah, even though he's also not perfect, he's the closest we get to a truly good person in the show
Hughie definitely appears to be the main character of the show as it seems like the viewer is seeing the world through his eyes the most throughout the seasons
@@SpacewinterknightWhich is in keeping with his role in the comics.
It's important to note that even with how vile the stories in both the show or comics gets, Hughie remains at the center of it all managing to hold onto some level of virtue and sanity even as others succumb to the savagery of his world, even at times where he himself loses his way.
If Butcher is a more brutal Jack Sparrow, then Hughie is a kinder Will Turner, the heart of their respective franchises.
Hughie is the true hero of the boys
He can gargle my ballsack.
The true hero is *THE PEAK* ,
The Boys gives a realistic bad guy (Homelander) and Invincible gives a realistic good guy (Mark)
The best of both worlds.
I'd love to see Mark beat the fuck out of Homelander
Both shows also give a realistic redemption (A-Train and **SPOILERS FOR THE COMIC** Nolan respectively)
@@RandomNoNamePTi dont think nolan getting redeemed is too much of a spoiler, it was pretty heavily hinted both at the start and the end of season 2
Homelander started off semi-realistic then started being cartoonishly evil as the series progressed, at this point, he acts more cartoonishly evil than actual villains.
Weirdly one of Omni-Man's lines in Mortal combat works perfectly here, 'Power doesn't corrupt, it enables' and if that isn't the tag line for these two shows I don't know what else could be.
Which makes Superman even more wholesome... his power enabled him to provide help and good deeds ALL AROUND THE WORLD. :D
It's true. Power never actually corrupted people, it just revealed a corrupt part of them that was ALWAYS there. Give a man enough power, and he'll be more honest than anyone you've ever known.
Its a double edged sword
It can apply to anyone
Whether good or bad
@@b0xman935 That's the point. It reveals who they are as a person.
@@Ninja07Keaton i mean... not always... to be more accurate, raising environment is what shapes person to be corrupted or not, unless they were born psychopath, then no amount of proper raising or therapy will instill empathy or indifferent mentality
If I had a nickle for every time somebody made a violent comic book not linked to Marvel/DC that parodied popular superheroes, which eventually got adapted into an Amazon Prime TV series that spawned a bunch of memes, which only elevated their popularity until one of the main antagonists was eventually put into Mortal Kombat 1 as guest DLC characters, then I'd have two nickles, which isn't a lot, but it's strange that it happened twice.
Lucky us that we have omni man vs homelander, also very nice meme
"You're used to scaring people. Not me."
"Okie doki, gramps! Let's do this!"
What a time to be alive
The fact this hasn't hapenned with Hellboy (technically not a super hero) or a Spawn remake is wild
My god you dragged the joke that long?
That one scene with Homelander and Ryan makes me feel so bad with Ryan. Him saying "Why am I not good enough for you" breaks me but man he's such and irredeemable person
What how? In that rant he also said "I've given you everything I've wanted" showing he isn't concerned with doing what Ryan wants or what would make him happy but what would make homelander happy...
@@TerraJ-ug6ncI think it’s more complex than just flat out narcissism. Ryan serves as a way for Homelander to move past his past childhood trauma while that same trauma also motivates him to be the father he literally never had. Homelander genuinely wants to give his son the upbringing he never had but due to personal ‘issues,’ he isn’t exactly the best father.
@@cucaelhombre And it's that trauma of being experimented on and his fixation on status that makes him doomed to never fully connect with his son, because he isn't able to separate what's good for Ryan from what he wants for himself and Ryan.
Ryan never asked to be a celebrity, but Homelander thought Ryan should be one, should be like him, and he's frustrated that Ryan would be anything more than just his.
EOTH
@@TerraJ-ug6nc I can see that read, but like the others said, the show very clearly shows he also wants to be a good father to Ryan, in part because his trauma motivates him for Ryan to have better. Doing what makes you happy for another person is a way of giving them what you view as better, because that's how you would want to be treated, so maybe they would too.
The Boys really has been the best thing to watch superhero wise since Endgame ended the good part of the MCU.
Invincible better tho
@@franciscoOrellana29for sure I can't wait for thragg
@@franciscoOrellana29invincible lost 50 percent of its sauce when it decided to take 3 years to make 8 episodes with sub par animation and an unnecessary 4 month hiatus midway
@@ztsyib4126 Keep the same energy after season 3 comes out next year
@@ztsyib4126 The fuck was sub par about season 2's animation? Also the reason that it had a 4 month hiatus midway through was because the crew making the show had one of two options, ether release the show with a large hiatus in the middle or delay the show yet again for several months so they could release episodes weekly. They knew that they kept fans waiting long enough as is, so they chose the first option.
People said same thing when Attack on Titan took 4 years to release season 2. But not only did seasons 3 and 4 come out much sooner in comparison, but now that is one of the most peak stories ever told in the history of fiction.
Another thing that needs to be brought up are the mindsets of each creator.
The Boys was created by Garth Ennis. A man who hates the entire concept of Superheroes. His deconstruction of the genre was always intended to be mean-spirited and cynical.
Invincible was created by Robert Kirkman and he’s the polar opposite. His deconstruction does explore dark subject matter, but it has more optimism with its characters and story.
Whichever take you prefer? That’s up to you. I personally prefer Invincible more.
It should be noted the Boys comic and Tv show while obviously having the same characters are vastly different from eachother while the comic is basically a hate letter to super heroes the tv show changes it up a bit and mocks irl media while having its mostly own take on these characters which imo is WAAAY better then the comic
@@SolidRazothe comics are basically a edgy manifesto of Garth Ennis on how he hates superheroes
Same. The Boys (TV show) may be a safer settin' for the Average Joe Six Pack because you don't have to worry about alien invasions or neighborhoods bein' destroyed by Superheroes fightin' Supervillains in no holds barred battles, but Invincible ain't cynical crap that has devolved into ham-fisted politics and Shock Value For The Sake Of Shock Value.
The boys comics felt like a 7th grader's rant to the principal
The boys comic was a satire of celebrities not superheros.
When battle beast hammered down mark in the first season, it became clear to me that in reality no one would save your ass.
69th like
Yes because we don't have plot Armour
Yeah, regardless of how many powers you have, don't get arrogant and be smart, otherwise it's death, even if you think the world is full of regular humans, who knows if there's a batman in the real world, you sure don't, Batman hides in the shadows, you never see him coming
@@kierangidda8840He’s a viltrumite they are nearly invincible and can heal from almost anything how is that plot armour?
@@daquaviousbingleton9763 it is not, that what the comment meant. And Viltrumites still can die.
But since Invincible is the Named Character of the Show, he kinda has some plot-armor in that he should not die.
"When everyone is super. No one will be"
Syndrome. And he made a point.
Will be what ?
@@trafalgardlawyer6128 Special
@@trafalgardlawyer6128 super
Bro tried to make an iconic quote 😂
Power doesn't corrupt it shows you who the person really is
Power doesn’t corrupt, it attracts the easily corrupted. Roughly the quote from some guy I was told about in English class when I was in school
Amazon Prime Loves Violent Superheros LMAO!!! 😂😂😂
They like realism… until it comes to politics then they have an agenda
@@Crazy_Schizo No, it's still realism
@@Crazy_SchizoI mean the boys is very political… it makes fun of everyone on the political spectrum. Mostly people who are extremists. And not all of it is realism it’s straight up parody most the time with touches of shit that’s a bit too real
@@Crazy_Schizolooks like we found one of the boys season 4 rotten tomatoes critics
@@AHappyBlackGuycringe asf
These two shows really reinvigorated my interest in the superhero genre. I’ve always wanted a more grounded superhero story and both these shows present two amazing different takes on this deconstruction.
The ending of Invincible’s first episode had my jaw on the floor for weeks
Invincibles overall story is anything but grounded
On the topic of satire, I think The Deep's comment about writers not getting paid enough is one of the best lines in the show
That A train scene almost made me cry
Legit. It also shows that people can change if they want to be better.
soft
Literally made me slightly tear up.
@@silloweet you have no soul.
me too
I used to fantasize about being a superhero when I was a kid during 2010’s MCU. I wanted to be as powerful and virtuous as the characters I watched during my marvel phase. But then I grew up and became less interested in clean characters as I began to experience the real world with all of its corruption and violence.
When I discovered the boys and invincible this year, it felt like a breath of fresh air as I felt like I can relate to the superhero world again. Watching those super powerful figures and the people who live under “their protection” experience the struggles of so many people nowadays allowed me to reflect more on the morals and ethics I was taught when I was kid and reevaluate the concept of goodness but with more maturity. Great video, you hit all the points ❤
Wtf what u say sound to me like, I liked good things and true virtue when I was a children and now that I became a bit more adult I became less interested in full good people and wanted to reevaluate good concepts you were taught before? Like unless you had cartoonishly evil characters in your life influencing you I don't think reevaluation of doing good things is needed
@@-Hexag0nI think what they’re saying is they grew up on Marvel and DC with generally simple moral values. Trust institutions like the police. Any bad cops are just bad apples in the system.
Then they grew up and saw how hideously corrupt the institutions are through and through and the likes of The Boys and Invincible reflect this
Iam exact opposite as for me i always liked villain and rooted them bcoz heroes always wins which i hate as it never create any real tension.
Damn 💯 this is a perfect verbal response of how I feel also. Not only did the character flaws and violence draw me into these shows, overall it was the REALISM. In real life everything isn’t always clean and not everyone is always good; and it definitely was refreshing for these shows to portray superheroes through a more mature and real lens.
Some people just want to be different and end up making themselves look like an NPC who can't think for themselves @@-Hexag0n
The only way to save dc is to let the peopple that make the animated shows and movies make the life action ones, cause the animated dc movies are better in my opinion.
The animated movies are slept on hard. There’s definitely some potential there
@ryan-jamison Indeed cause when you compare dc and marvel when it comes to animated movies dc is better in my opinion
@@decoyaccount6 depending on what franchise you're looking at, because for what I think that Zack Snyder was trying to do which is understanding but it will never work out with the studio themselves, although animated movies has been very well made unlike Marvel since it's on my Disney and the only thing they did manage to climb back up is X-Men 97 which is quite successful. But since that writer is fired it's going to go downhill for season 2
Thing is people good at animation aren’t always good or as good with live action and vice versa
Yeah, also some of the stuff in the animated series cold simply cost too much.
17:28 Claiming Homelander and Omniman are more realistic personalities than Captain America and Superman is a pretty crazy take in my opinion. Clark Kent is a farm boy raised in Kansas who's parents taught him the value of helping others, and Steve Rogers is just a kid who grew up in Brooklyn and was inspired by his best friend and a strong sense of justice to join the army. Homelander is a deranged narcissist raised in a lab, and Omniman is a brainwashed sycophant raised in a world of constant war and combat.
Superman and Captain America are by far the most normal of these four. They're certainly idealistic, but even on a less idealistic level you'd have a character much closer to Mark from Invincible than Omniman or Homelander. I don't see how anyone can watch these villains with dramatic and fantastical backstories and go "Yeah that seems a lot more realistic than growing up on a farm or in Brooklyn."
Lol exactly, but people love applying the word realism when they mean grimdark to seem cool and edgy. Same with the word satire
I agree by far. Mark is a FAAAR more realistic take on a teenage superhero than Omni Man or Homelander.
I love Superman and Captain America, and I’m always of the opinion that edgy is great, but edgy can never be better than just pure kindheartedness.
Their backstory has nothing to do with how they are portrayed and the decisions they make in the story. aka: it doesn't matter how "normal" they are, it's not realistic
Omniman is very realistic in so far that he is a brainwashed, ideologically poisoned man who has lived in the absence of a real culture for hundreds of years, who slowly deconstructs from his brainwashing once he comes to Earth and lives among real people.
Which turns out to be a trend among Viltrumites, funnily enough.
Its both realistic in that it happens to him and in terms of Viltrumite culture being that way in the first place, because "we are strong, therefore everyone else is worthless" is a braindead idea to begin with.
At the season one climax, when pressed to convince Mark, Omniman is so incredibly unable to actually defend his ideology, or make ANY coherent point ro argument, it is almost laughable.
And the best part about it, I am pretty much convinced at this point that this was completely unintentional by the author.
Imo, but Captain America is not perfect. He is an idealist, yes, and such people also exist, but there are just so few of them that it is less believable than a psychopath like Homelander.
I prefer “nobody’s perfect” to the edgy “there’s no such thing as good people” while you can argue they’re the same statement, it’s the tone that makes all the difference. And these shows do that.
I still the best comic I’ve read where heroes were portrayed with realistic human flaws was rising stars.
You didn’t have cackling mad men who delighted in slaughter but one hero who was a womanizer with a big of an ego who got himself in a compromising situation and had everything spiral out of control while trying to cover his ass. He hit rock bottom when he got a bunch of people killed and spent the rest of his life trying to make things right.
A couple of characters who were extremely weak willed and manipulated by others that grew a spine when it mattered most.
Hell even the villains weren’t inherently evil.
For all that stories cynicism there was an underlying theme that everyone has the capacity for goodness, some of us just loose our way.
aren't these two quotes telling the same thing?
@@mcrain1283 I feel one of them is more realistic and the other is nihilistic, because an imperfect person can still do good in the world.
@@mcrain1283 No. Don't gotta be perfect to be good.
@@DreamyAileen that’s what I’m saying
The main difference between The Boys and Invincible is that Invincible is unironically more realistic despite having way more outlandish comic book logic sometimes. But despite the differences in the portrayal of how these fictional worlds opperate both teach the viewer a lot about very real and human things.
The Boys tv show really was able to save that ridiculous, unrealitsic pessimism from the original comic version of itself and make it work in a new style of storytelling where it is kinda similar to our real world but whatever can go wrong goes wrong and people just gotta suck it up and survive with all of the consequences of everyone with super powers being either a degenerate (not kinkshaming) or a maniac or both. To contrast, in Invincible you have different people still being themselves with or without superpowers, making different types of mistakes rather than just getting powerhungry and thinking themselves as gods.
It is more how it would work in real life because we already have "super powered" people living and contributing to society in different ways. I am talking about people with predispositions for art, for science, for activism and others, people with talents are real life superhumans. Just look at an incredibly "powerful" artist or a scientist and realize how exactly a real person would act if they got a lantern ring or got mutated into a musclebound giant.
That is particularly why I think it is very interesting to see how both shows, one with real actors while being less realistic and another fully animated while being closer to reality, portray different types of nowadays human problems, individual and global. This deconstruction of what it means to be better than others, to earn more in life or be gifted something others do not have is very important and valuable as it shows that no matter how strong or smart or interesting you might be but you are still a human. An invulnerable "god" patrior Homelander is a human no matter how much he tries to kill off his humanity. A warmonger alien able to literally wipe out humanity Omniman is still a human in soul. Billy Butcher is a human fidning new familiar connections in the son of a superhero he hates before spiraling down the rabit hole of becoming more of an animalistic monster hellbent on destroying a type of people he blames his life on. Mark Greyson slowly accepts more and more of the parts of himself most other people would never even dream of reaching the level of eventually transcending past his humanity but not forgeting its values and teachings, keeping morality and order while using overwhling inhuman force to keep this order as a benevolent balance for all.
These parallels teach us how to live in the world where super powers work less flashy but can be used for the progress of the whole world, the deeper you dig the more you realize just how lucky we are to have so much good fiction guiding us forward.
With all due respect, I disagree with your take on realism of Invincible (comparing to The Boys). Specifically, your comparison of people with predispositions for different activities (i.e. "real life superhumans") with people who have the ability to (in theory) wipe out the whole city in minutes is very shaky imo. People behave differently in different circumstances, so it's very weird to say that, for example, the prodigy in art who stayed a good person will most likely stay the same nice figure (or at least will not become a monster) if he will get a some kind of superpower. These are VERY different situations in which a person can exist, and saying that we have a real life multiple examples of very smart people who are not crazy scientists with desire to destroy the world is the argument for Invincible's realism is very questionable.
And your another take about unrealistic pessimism of The Boys with people sucking up every terrible act that supes do... I mean, you do see what happens in the world? People are afraid to go against those who have power, who are in charge, even if it would make their life potentially better, because there is a big possibility that if people will decide to go againts those with power, then they will lose everything and will be punished by people in charge. That's kinda how the world works.
You call it "animalistic" but other animals have never been as destructive or violent as we are, so who is really the monster here?
Maybe stop using them as your punching bag
There are a fairly large number of people with talents (superpowers) that misuse their talents.
Take science for example. There are large number of instances in the scientific community where they've suppressed new emerging theories because they threaten the life work of other well known scientists. While this is detrimental to science in general, it's to be expected; imagine having your life's work rendered useless because you've been basing it on an old theory that someone else proves to be false or obsolete. You also can't discount scientists who manipulate the results of their studies, whether by presenting the information in a way that makes their hypothesis look correct or by skewing their data or by limiting their tests to multiple smaller studies and picking the ones that prove their point. And let's not forget the fact that it costs money to run elaborate tests. Investors and companies are not going to fund anything that isn't profitable or allow a theory to gain traction that is detrimental to their bottom line.
As for activists, there are many that demand changes that would benefit them or their beliefs, discounting how it will effect the rest of the country or world. Yes, there are good activist, but the louder, more ruthless, more conniving are the ones who get the best results. Look how it has played out in feminism. There are some that want equality of the sexes, but there are many others that wish to have more rights than men and openly hate men. What's worse is when activist take advantage of others desire for change to profit, like the Black Lives Matter movement; the leaders of that movement are now rich (or richer) thanks to all the money that was generated through donation with very little actual change occurring. And look at the whole woke movement, how it has influenced our entertainment, lecturing the audience through tv shows and movies.
There are many other fields with talented people that have similar problems, like the medical field refusing to acknowledge (or even look into) other fields outside of western medicine that show potential, choosing instead to medicate patients when they can't find the answer to their problems.
@@wiswc With progress come new negatives and some people using the immense evolutionary adventages to abuse the world less developed around them are also a byproduct of the planet having too many people on it for a huge (in our individual sights) amount of them to not be the bad apples out of the whole enormous bunch.
If animals had guns they would have been more destructive towards each and the world than the humans just because of them not realising the negatives this destruction brings on a moral scale and literal scale.
The very concept of smth being "destructive" or a "monster" comes from our human understanding that preserving balance is overall "good" so the fact you are saying that animals are less monstrous than us is not just wrong (as animals partake in insanely violent activities on the regular) but also defeats itself as your humanity is what makes you able to see smth being destructive as a problem in the first place.
Also I love animals, dunno why you thought I was shittalking them.
@@aWalkThroughLife Look, you talked about potential ways very particular professions can lead people to be bad in different ways, most untrue and kinda boogieman-ish in comparison on how people in those fields actually operate (especially the scientific community) but clearly you are just focusing on the outlyers that do not show the whole face of the world you are trying to paint. 8 billion people are on one planet, obviously even if a 0.01 of them were bad apples it would already be millions of people. It is difficult to see the good when you focus on the loud bad apples.
Overall we are living in the safest and most progressive (in all senses) time the world and especially humanity has ever seen. Each month we discover stuff so groundbreaking people from 400 years ago would have been calling it magic. In fact we discover so much stuff and make such good progress in all spheres of living and culture that it does not even make the mainstream news anymore, our very own standards for globally important news had risen just because of how much of it there is.
(also just a personal gripe with what you are saying but uhhh "woke movement"? Brother, go outseide and talk with different people, we live in a time when ya can do that so start using the advantages of progress before the world gets too advanced for ya to catch up to it. Maybe ya will start seeing my optimistic points more when ya actually get in contact with the inculculable good the world can give you now.)
Invincible for me is the greatest superhero show and comics of all time.
Have you seen or read anything else lol
@@uspahlelet’s be honest the comic is really , really good
Hellblazer, vértigo.
@@uspahlethe Invincible comics are great but Watchmen, The Sandman, Saga Of The Swamp Thing and Hellboy exists
Second to daredevil
Superhero genre stages:Parody(Deadpool) Nostalgic (Logan) Demythologizind (the Boys) Reaffirming (FF and Superman maybe)
Logan kind of does all of them to an extent, even with the parody aspect hidden in his disgust with the comics making his life and past events to be more cheery than his current situation
You basically summarized everything perfect about these two shows and how it appeals to such a wide audience despite how gruesome it can be at times. These two shows have been my favorite thing to come out post Endgame. It really is refreshing to see people struggle and overcome those struggles or even fail at times. Humanity at it's core is flawed and a Human Superhero wouldn't be perfect either.
The Boys isn't realistic. It's a parody. It's not really about 'what if supes were real?' It's more like 'what if supes were products of a insanely rich disney-like monopoly?'
Being a parody doesn't change that it's realistic.
@@friedfrog5447yeah so
@@friedfrog5447 True, but the boys are still not realistic in any way, shape or form. The franchise merely substitutes unrealistic levels of heroism and self sacrifice with unrealistic levels of gore and douchebaggery.
@Alexander_Kale If you think the boys is unrealistic, you haven't payed attention to the real world at all. So many real world events people, and places are directly parodies. And the douchebaggery is perfectly realistic.
@@friedfrog5447 If you think the boys is realistic, it is YOU who hasn't paid attention to the real world.
The idea of super heroes not having a presence in the military for example is total hogwash. That is THE FIRST place that would have had super powered individuals, and the show's justification for this not being the case is hogwash.
It is a darker, edgier and overall gorier deconstruction of traditional super hero comics. it is not "more realistic".
I absolutely love seeing creators with smaller audiences get the recognition they deserve from the algorithm. Your explanation is brilliant, my friend. Thank you for so eloquently highlighting what makes these two shows stand out compared to other pieces of media in the superhero genre.
8:20 I think my favorite part of Invincible season 2 was the first episode where every time someone was about to say invincible, the title card just didn't happen, it was great
They edged us for that- *INVINCIBLE*
The Boys and Invincible came out at the right time. Watchmen should have come out now. AFTER when Superheroes have become mainstream. That is when you can hit with satire effectively. The Watchmen TV show was effective. Ppl complained it was too political but that was the purpose of the comic: Politics. It was a very political comic.
I also think Ppl miss the selfless Superman of the Animated Series or even the 1940s. Sure people are Edgelords or skeptical but there are ppl who enjoy these stories of Good and Evil.
I also see people missing out on the Bat Family Sagas. Batman itself is a Universe you can explore without an extended Universe.
Mainstream heroes from DC have so many unexplored areas.
I really like My Adventures With Superman because it dares ask the question “what if Superman was Spiderman?”
@@steamtasticvagabond474holy fuck that wasn't a bad anime. I'm glad it wasn't just more satire bullshit and told a good story
I especially like that one animated Superman movie where a bunch of "evil" superheroes try to prove that Superman is not incorruptible by doing bad shit to make him snap, only for Superman to snap and it's like the scariest 20 minutes of my 13yo life (but he was just pranking them in actuality)
@@steamtasticvagabond474Except we shouldnt have that. Superman should be superman.
@@raxusveritassuperman and the Elite
Correction: Stormfront was a Far-Right Influencer and never pretended to have Left-Leaning Views.
She was a Nazi.. Nazism is left wing ideology
Well... your right she never pretended to have left-leaning views, but she did have liberal aesthetics and a populist message. (Liberalism isn't a leftist ideology but I digress)
Thats the boys tho. These supes are conservative technically but they do a lot of things liberals do. Its making fun of the extreme on both sides lmao.
She's Homelander's mother.
@@sktkkk1 she's not... why do people keep saying this? we already know that a runaway was paid to carry the embryo
Dawg this deserves way more likes and views this is a million subscriber channel quality vid and idea
Nah did bro just say "I will be touching on minors" 2:05 you're NOT Dr Disrespect buddy.😭😭😭
You mean Drake ?
@@Max_G43 Diddy
Amazon Prime is the King of Adaptations
Nah Netflix
They’re both good
Rings of power
Its not an adaptation...@@Ale-dd3ek
@@Marvelfanatic3658 Huh? Have you seen the live action Legend of Aang? Worst adaption
I think the scene where Homelander deafens the blind guy was one of the the worst things we see him do, not necessarily because of the severity or the scale of the violence, but because there was very little to no reason behind it, he just did it.
Like the train scene
14:21 The thing that really makes Homelander imo probably the best villain I have seen in any piece of fiction is how complex he is. He is both irredemable and a monster but at the same time still human and you can also understand what were the causes for him being the way he is. You have some sort of sympathy for him while at the same time you also fear, are disturbed by and despise him. He's the type of villain you love to hate, that has so many layers to his character.
This is all helped by Antony Starr's fucking superb acting as Homelander as well.
Of all the media we can get, surprisingly TV shows seem to be doing well for superheroes
So really glad someone made this video. Got into both before the shows came out but the shows do the whole “superhero’s in the real world” soooo much better. Instantly loved invincible in the first scene where we see the 2 guards just bantering about superheroes same as we would. Even the comic con type stuff or all the marketing and merchandising in the boys that plays Vought like the Star Wars or the mcu where yu literally see it everywhere from sodas to chip bags. Just love when they do it and hope we’ll see more stuff like it in other superhero media
I think you made some pretty good points and I believe that there are two more (that come to my mind) when it comes to these shows. Subverting expectations, and playing around with tropes, without necessarily relying on them to build a narrative
What a video. I’m so glad this came up in my recommended. The way you described both shows was just. muah chiefs kiss.
This has to be some of the most well designed video essays regarding a comparison between The Boys and Invincible on something all too complex and subtle for anyone to immediately pick up on retold into something anyone can easily understand. You sir, got a gift. and a new sub and like ;)
2 of the best superhero series in recent years. both stories fitting animation and live action respectively in the best way possible
You definitely hit a lot of solid points, good job on this. I believe you should have mentioned how Hughie always tries to be good but he ultimately ends up doing some immoral acts to get his job done. You could have compared him with Mark but it wasn’t a missing piece to this video or anything. You definitely got my subscription.
Superhero fatigue was never a thing… people are just tired of mid garbage
This
Yes. Real Storytelling is forever.
Also the writer's need to know that "Superhero" isn't a genre its a medium.
Most superhero stuff can get dry Ngl
Such a good video. The boys, season after season, has delivered amazing social commentary and wtf moments.
I’m glad you enjoyed the vid! And I totally agree! Even though people have said season 4 dropped off in quality, I still think it’s one of the best tv shows on air right now.
@@ryan-jamisontbf i can't think of any other good show on air right now besides maybe House of the Dragon.
13:00 yes and no. People are tired of it but not entirely, say superman for 1 example. People are tired of the injustice or recent movies of him being portray. He evil and the movies are darker (both figurative and literally) but lately people been wanting the superman from the 90's cartoon. The better man of tomorrow type.
But MCU styles is definitely run it courses. I think in near future we are gonna get superhero movies more focus on inspiring people and doing more justice. Not so much on fighting since we basically had our filled
You make some great points!
I do think these darker stories will go out of fashion just like the MCU era of films has. I think a focus on more inspirational and heroic stories would be a great avenue-especially in today’s climate. I’d love to see some more optimistic stories.
Very curious to see how James Gunn’s Superman is received because that definitely seems like a return to the classic Superman archetype. I just hope he does something different than try to emulate the early MCU, because I don’t think that’ll be enough imo.
We shall see…
@@ryan-jamison To an extent I think other than personal tastes a story being dark or not doesn't really matter if the story is well written and able to handle that well.
When people talk about MCU films for an example, a lot of the criticism isn't the tone but usually actual flaws with the writing of the films themselves.
Idk why I hate Superman because they act as if he's holier than thou and as if he's not an alien and he'd gaf about humans... They treat him like shit his entire life who goes thru that and is like let's be their hero now
@@TerraJ-ug6nc If you think this then you know little to nothing about the character's motivations and ideologies.
@@TerraJ-ug6nc humans don't really treat superman like shit, people literally idolize him.
When I was a kid and my friends asked me who I liked more Superman or Batman I always said Batman (well because he’s awesome but) because I thought Superman was just a boring character , I thought they just made a really powerful guy with almost no weaknesses ... It was years later I realized they didn’t just make him for the sake of making an OP character , he is supposed to be a role model , especially those with power to not abuse it and let it corrupt themselves .. he is one of the most powerful characters in the dc universe , he doesn’t need to be good , heck being good has probably hurt him a lot more but despite having no reason he still chooses to be good , to do the right thing .. the boys and invincible did a great job at making superheroes more realistic (in character at least ) but I still believe we need classic superhero stories , not to be a representation of reality but to serve as a moral beacon to us all
thank you for putting into words what ive wanted to tell my friends for so long, thank you Ryan Jamison
Their literally my two favorite shows at the moment for the exact reason you said last, they take the super human and add the human, it’s a special art to do, they both do it very well, keeps the reality of it all
Very high quality video for such a small channel, very nice!
there's something about these channels with somber voices explaining media to me that always keeps me calm
There is also a sense of danger. If you feel the good guy will always win, you don’t have to worry. In these shows you’re always wondering if they will and is anyone safe.
"No God, the only man in the sky, is me" has got to be one of the most intimidating lines in any superhero movie ever
Hi.
Just hear to say that if you like stories that reconstruct the superhero genre i recommend reading Worm and Warden by wildbow.
It's the greatest "what if superheroes were real?" Story i have ever read. And WAAAAY to underrated.
I have a character I created that is a being of ultimate power and I can currently count how many characters are and can come close to his power on one hand. The one thing that keeps him from losing himself to his power is that he already has in a time before the story takes place and you see him pity others at his level and below going through what he already dealt with centuries before.
Peacemaker
I completely forgot about Peacemaker but that’s a similar one
This is one of the best videos I've seen in a while. I love it when superheroes meet real life politics and the deep phycology behind them. Keep up the good work
Invincible was the first superhero show i watched that actually made me react physically, and to such a degree that my friend who introduced me to it was concerned lmao.
It hit me because i went in expecting something like every other animated superhero show, or well, western animated shows in general (not a huge anime fan).
Ive never been a marvel or dc fan, never cared for comics. But I enjoy animation, and animated characters a stories.
The first time I was hit with graphic gore, myy jaw fuckin dropped. And seeing Invincible on his first day of the job, and being hit with the reality that yeah, this isnt just saving the day and being a hero. This is real shit and every second you waste freaking out is another life lost.
That notion was just.. completely new for me for a superhero show. And it really put my expectations 6 feet under. It paints a new persective on the genre, one that isnt so watered down. Not to say that other shows and movies are light-hearted fun and games, they have their dark and serious moments. But many of the things touched on in this series are just handwaved in others. You dont think about it. Invincible, especially season one hits you with the searing reality of what these "heros" are and what they're going through and what their lives are really like. The trauma, the personal life issues, the fractured families. It was such a breath of fresh air for me with this genre. And a shock.
Then season 2 comes. After a full season of the constant in-your-face visuals and reality, this season was just pure catharsis, for most of it. And im glad. It gave time to process wtf happened. And seeing the aftermath of all the action, not just for the main characters, but for the world, was an experience.
God I love this show. Cant wait for season 3.
The Boys and Invincible serves as a good come back to the whole superhero trope fatigue
Adding stuff to Watch later and never actually watching. Can relate
i wouldnt put it any other way, never have i heard these shows and their message explained better, keep up the good work!
Holy crap I love this video essay I hope I can write stuff as good as this video. I really enjoy both of these shows and I really wasn't able to say why, but you really hit the nail on the head with your words. I enjoyed this video very much.
You can absolutely write stuff just like this. Nothing special about me LOL
The writing advice I always live by is to just START. Can’t edit a blank page 🤷🏻♂️
This is a great video essay! I love both shows. I do want to add an a honorable mention but X-Men 97 while it’s not violent it does touch on some of the themes as well… which is why everyone loves it.
And it’s probably one of the best things Marvel has put out since Endgame
This was good. Your last line - "Yet a trend among all of them is that they take the superhuman and embrace the human" made me think of the story that took the superhuman and rejected the human: Miracleman. It's a deconstruction of Captain Marvel and well worth the read.
Personally I feel that Kick Ass needs to be the next animated series in this genre. I'm a fan of those comics honestly and what makes that universe tend to work is the fact that nobody has actual powers, but they just dress up as heroes
One is what happens when real physics applies to traditional superheroes, the other is what happens when real people are given the powers of traditional superheroes.
Such a great presentation, Ryan. Honestly, those two shows while being radically different, they present a few similarities.
Incredible video, couldn’t believe my eyes when I saw 11k subscribers. I’v subbed, and look forward to seeing more
Sheesh 💯 this is a perfect video of how I feel also. Not only did the character flaws and violence draw me into these shows, overall it was the REALISM. In real life everything isn’t always clean and not everyone is always good; and it definitely was refreshing for these shows to portray superheroes through a more mature and real lens. You hit it on the NOSE with this video 🔥 great work !!
3:43 nahh. This show is also still a fairy tale, an on camera gruesome fairy tale that is. Other pg superheroes shows indeed have gruesome deaths but it’s off camera. There’s no “reality” in a setup settings made by people’s imaginations.
i love when small youtubers take their time into making great quality videos.
You got my sub bro this video was amazing
Late comment, but I just wanted to let you know that I appreciated the gag of “do you think I missed the mark” at 18:43 and the b roll in the background is mark getting his rib cage flattened.
Awesome analysis, great job coming back man
“Power doesn’t corrupt, it reveals.” Robert Caro
Bro I hope you keep up with the mini docs on tv series shit is great
Well deserved blown up video man! These two shows are something special and deserve the recognition
its not a problem of superheroes, its a problem of writing. Just because theres a handful of bad action movies doesnt mean that action movies have become bad, theyre still good, its just that some of the writers and directors of those movies suck
The writing and the editing for this video is really top-notch. I could see how much thought was put into each clips selected for the video! Amazingly well done, imma binge your other vids now lol
This was a pretty great video! I'm honestly not great at picking up on the subtletities of writing so a lot of Invincible flew over my head and the more explicitness of The Boys clouds my deeper understanding of things of notions like that of humanity and why I like it so much. This video made me realize a lot of that. Good work!
Brightburn and James Gunn's SuicideSquad are also very good and exceptionally gruesome examples
Mark saves every human life possible, not every life, you never see him save any other species
he literally did that in season 2 when viltrumites attacked lol
Didn’t he literally go out of his way to help some bug aliens cause he was led to believe a meteor would destroy their planet
He also saves some martians in season 1
I meant non people creatures ffs
originally it wasnt stupposed to be a spiderman parody, it was actually supposed to be spiderman there but legal issues with the show and whatnot
very well said. thanks for making this
You deserve more subscribers, you are amazing! ❤❤❤
your such an underrated creator. keep it up! im addicted to your vids lol
I think it's important to mention that homelander knew and acknowledged that lifting a plane isn't feasible because the smallness of his body would just pierce through the massive plane because he is indestructible the plane isn't.
Why have you blessed me with such a masterpiece
Great video
I gotta say that I agree with every point….until another RUclipsr changes my mind
This is now by far one of my favorite youtube videos ever, thank you.
Holy shit this is one of the fucking best videos I have fucking seen wtf this hit hard and all of this is all so fucking real wtf man you fucking cooked with this holy shit man
Glaze much?
@@uspahle man stfu this guy cooked
A welcomed glazing for sure. thanks, man 🙏🏻
Yeah, because nobody with power would ever want to be a good person, am I right? The corporations are already super powerful from the start, so that just makes me wonder where the tension is.
(This is just a me-problem.) I keep wondering how much of this praise is from people who want to use the MCU as a scapegoat.
Here's an idea I've come to: Having powers doesn't make you a superhero. Being a good person does. Look at say, Wally West from Justice League Unlimited.
In the episode where his villains try to take him down, it's shown to us that Wally is generally a good guy around Central City. He helps certain people with things like painting their fences or stopping to say hi to some dudes fishing or make a kid smile. He even refers to them by name which, meaning he has a slight personal connection to them
Powers don't make the person, it just enhances them. Any super powered person can stop a bus from going off a highway, but not everyone is going to stop that bus because it's the right thing to do. That's the important part about powers. You need to have intent before you do something with them.
Omni-Man may have been a hero to earth, but that was just so he could slip under the radar and wipe out the Guardians of the Globe. Homelander is basically Superman, so that gives him the authority to do whatever he wants because who's going to stop him?
Any super powered person can do anything they want, but they need motive behind it to make them either be a hero, or a villain. After all, powers don't make you who you are. They simply show the world who you are.
Not a fan of super hero shows, but I enjoyed the untimely credits at 18:28 🙂
(Like #18)
Couldn’t have done it without that Ryan guy! 🙌🏻
@@ryan-jamison Yeah, he's very talented, a jack-of-all-trades. He _must_ be related to Walt Disney. 😉
This was such a great video and made me realize that these superhero shows aren’t trying to do what other superhero shows are doing by glorifying themselves or the world where they live in, but showing how tragic the world can be when you’re given unlimited power (superpowers for example) The human aspect of a superhero show or movie is critical in the relatability between the characters and ourselves, even in a fictional universe. Props to you for making such a thoughtful and well executed video!!! 🫶🏽
I think the most underappreciated part of Invincible, is how they deconstruct superhero relationships. They were actually doing this since episode one with Red Rush, but by season 2 they demonstrate and state pretty clearly that a superhero having a good romantic relationship with a non-super is nearly impossible. Amber feels guilty and hurt through their whole relationship because she feels like it's wrong to put her own feelings before the good of everyone Mark wants to save. Really, a superhero is much more likely to have a healthy relationship with another superhero, someone who has the same sort of responsibilities, who isn't at much risk to be used as a helpless pawn, who can spend time with them while they're in costume, so they aren't so constantly lonely.
Ive actually been brainstorming a comic im going to invest into that takes the concept of REAL superheroes who become corrupted by fame, money, drugs, etc.
Yeah you're gonna say "Thats just the boys?" No.
I mean basically the Justice League running organized crime, peddling drugs, people, guns. Suoer villains unironically being more redeemable.
Basically if you took what DC comics does and had them all become pieces of shit.
For example: Id want a captain america type as their leader BUT he has powers like superman that he is told to keep to himself as it doesnt fit his "Public hero brand"
So imagine highly trained, highly intelligent captain America but he's basically a mafia syndicate boss with superman powers he keeps hidden from the public.
Focusing less of violence and more of the power of corruption, and the main characters fighting would be anti heroes who were in prison for their crimes.
Basically Bad people vs worse people.
Alot like the boys and invincible except Id want REAL superheroes and REAL supervillains and the "Evil Superman" type would be more captain America blended with Hugo Strange and a bit of Ra's Al Ghul.
Highly trained, highly educated. Basically if Homelander was a super genius and had a lifetime of proper training.
Alot less accidental deaths and alot more intimidation and wrath.
TL:DR I want to do a similar concept except the motivations of the "heroes" will be extremely simple and greedy rather than them all having flaws and weird kinks/fetishes.
Just regular people who become corrupted with their positions and think they are gods protecting innocents while running crime, gangs and even murdering supervillains when they get sick of their shit.
Naturally born or occuring powers + accidents + Aliens
Taking a true comic book aesthetic and feel and adapting it into a gritty thriller about anti heroes trying to not be shitty people
I want to write a superhero novel where the main character is a truly good person and a superhero (he’ll have flaws obviously) and he has a girlfriend who is a normal but also very good person, almost perfect. She will get powers that corrupt her, and the hero will essentially have to watch her become an awful homelander/omni man type villain. Instead of discovering someone is an awful person, the main character will have to deal with someone they love becoming a villain.
Thats a creative idea!
@@RandomCommenter-qu2ocAmazing idea be sure to write stuff down, don't be like me and have ideas but never actually commit
@@CommiePieYes and I did like the idea of them genuinely being heroes and overtime they just completely lose the plot.
I like to imagine the vibe would be a populated superhero world like Marvel and DC but one that has been extremely normalized
I hope I can actually commit to an idea but I struggle to write content that can lean into darker stuff because I don't like writing dark stuff, but it heavily depends on the characters.
Eitherway, I wouldn't want to be over satirical like the boys or overly violent like Invincible.
Plus, I would want their movies and fake stuff to actually look produced by a company because I love the boys but they always make their fake content look super cheap intentional or not it doesn't feel realistic for marketing to me
But thank you! I love feedback both good and bad
With the more realistic approach to superhero media that these shows make, I’d definitely like to see an essay from you about My Adventures with Superman’s idealistic return to form for the superhero medium.
Oy your content is amazing. Deffo keep it up!
Subbed, awesome video topic, stoppee ar 2:31 because I don't wanna spoil these shows for myself, gonna watch them eventually, saves the video to a playlist for later!
Rising stars y the boys son dos caras de una misma en crear un universo realitas de superhumano
la verdad tu tiene toda la razón de mundo
los mas increible es esten comentario es mucho mejor que todo el video juston
eserios los gringos no tiene argumentos ayuno en sus videos
Great job man! The “Special thanks to Ryan Jamison ” had my dying 😂😂😂 #selflove
Couldn’t have done it without him 🤷🏻♂️
This was an incredible video
Fun fact the "spider-man" in invincible was actually Spidey in the comics
This essay is so kino it really makes me wanna drink yummy soda and watch tv all day