Trudeau is acting on-bahalf of the Russians and Chinese. Russia recognized the problem way ahead of the game, mainly through their extensive network of moles in NORAD, US DoD, and RCAF. The big threat to Russian bomber ingress is the vast network to be formed by USAF Alaska, RCAF, and ANG Vermont via the JSF MADL web. Especially networked with drum roll.........maritime patrol aircraft like the P-8A Poseidon, the JSF NORAD fleet will bring unprecedented strategic SA to the Northern Hemisphere. Trudeau set Canada and NORAD back a decade in this regard. He's a cursed traitor to his countrymen and needs to be held accountable for his inexcusable conduct.
Yep. My father was in RCAF during the 60's station at Coldlake as 104 engineer. As well as is a good friend who was F18 pilot about 20 ywars ago. Both talk about how bad it is now. Biggest political disaster
Is part of Canada’s issue that the general population assumes the U.S. military will cover their butts (which is the EU’s problem too)? So, that paired with a pacifist strain, equals big problems?
@@The_ZeroLine The issue is Canada has never had to fight for anything in its existence. Notice I said "had to", not chose to. It was granted independence from England without much of even asking, and Quebec - the most politically powerful province has just whined for everything it has been given within Canada, and its population is the most left leaning in the country. Very anti-war and like much of the rest of Canada smugly anti-American. We are "better than them", which often translates into whatever the Americans are doing we should do the opposite. So all that to say, pretty much yes. Contrast Canada with Australia, which had some of its citizens taken prisoner in WW2, as Japan's advance got very up close and personal to that country. Now look at their military today - in terms of capability not just spending - and you might notice a different response to the increased threat in the Pacific.
I'm a Canadian born, dual Australian/Canadian Citizen. My Mum's father was in the RCAF and flew Lancasters in WW2, and was in a Sabre Squadron in Germany. My brother and his wife both joined the RCAF and retired after long careers. I was in the RCAF briefly, but ended up in Australia and joined the Australian Army and was a rotary wing pilot. My Dad's family were Aussies and have a long legacy in the Australian military. The difference between the RCAF & the RAAF is stark. The RAAF is a modern, well equipped Air Arm with AWACS, F-35, FA-18F, EF-18G, JORN etc, while the RCAF is a hollowed out shell of what it used to be. The Aussies are a fighting force, the Canadians are a "Peace Keeping" Force, and the Canadian Gov't barely cares about the military, the opposite of how the Australian Gov't thinks. Australia knows it's at the sharp end, on its own, and learned the lessons of WW2 when they were abandoned by the UK, while Canada seems to think it's more of an irritant to have a military and only does the bare minimum to meet its NATO & NORAD obligations. The Canadian Gov't uses military procurement as an election football. It breaks my heart to see how far the RCAF has fallen. Gov't bungling has left the military in dreadful shape, and they have not served the wonderful people, who serve them in the Defence Force, well at all. It's disgraceful.
The Australian Army, too, is significantly better equipped than Canadian Army almost anywhere you look, from the rifles to the rotary to the tanks and artillery. And the Navies... MAN! Insane difference. Australia could, if it really wanted to, get carrier fixed wing aviation. It'd be kinda dumb, so Australia won't, but it's possible. Canada barely has frigates and submarines. Their readiness is terrible, their weapons outdated.
While some of what you say is true not all it is, Australia has many shortfalls in its military aswell and it is considerably smaller than Canada's plus the fact that Australia is not encumbered by constant calls from NATO and the United nations with their hand out plus the enormous scale of our territory in which you could lose Australia in ....
Eh? Australia is about 80% the size of Canada, and is nearly as wide as Canada is from sea to sea. Canada's military is also not much larger than Australia's. Canada: 68,000 active 27,000 reserve Australia: 60,330 active personnel 29,740 reserve@@BradFalck-mn3pc Single digit % difference.
@@BradFalck-mn3pc and what United Nations commitments encumber us, exactly........? Does anyone at all recognize Canada's status in "peacekeeping", other than Canadians patting ourselves on the back? Every. Single. Area of military procurement in Canada is bungled beyond belief. How exactly do you describe the Leo 2A4/2A6 rollercoaster? Our sad, sad chronically ill subs? Our new icebreakers that are still nowhere to be found, even though they're the societally progressive/politically palatable procurement item? Between the former DDGs, current FFGs, and the Type 26 deal Navy still can't decide on its own identity. Mediocre F35 deal was replaced by an equally mediocre F35 deal, but now appallingly late and actually a terrible deal after wasting all that time and taxpayer money on a "competition"? Geriatric CP-140 still has to labour on because the lay Canadian thinks copium headcanon > P-8? Absolute dinosaur Hornets expected to..........do what exactly, with their APG-73s? And we bought more of the dinosaurs from Australia, to keep in that state because again we can't put 100% into any decision including APG-79v4 retrofit. I don't think anyone is under the illusion that Australia is perfect, but everyone is damn near perfect when measured against Canada as a benchmark.
@@superfamilyallosauridae6505it's not the personnel differences, it's the quality of its equipment,and capabilities, that give Australia's military the edge over Canada's military in 2023!!
Canadian Army guy here. It’s every bit as haunting as it is refreshing to hear that all branches - and trades - of the CAF are suffering in equal measure (especially in terms of shoddy recruiting, plummeting training standards, all the retention of wet tissue paper, obsolete and underpowered kit, and a neglectful government that ensures zero positive change). Thank you for bringing the stark facts of this crisis to the fore. Parliament can only be held to account if far more people know about this.
Canada's military has been ignored for over 3 decades by BOTH ruling parties. This was deliberate ignorance. Canada has not had responsible government for over 50 years.
i mean, people forget that canada is one of the prime investitors of the f35 program and developper. just canadians voted to leave the program with trudeau and it threw the rcaf in a terrible political loop to scramble. now we have to rebuy ourselves into the 2nd and third line maintenance programs trudeau had to PAY TO LEAVE
Well there are two trains of thought. One is with the end of the cold war how much money should the country spend on defence? The other is finding that sweat spot that provides for our national defence while spreading funding across all the branches in the military.
Retired Canadian Forces Officer here. What Billie says is so true and sad. Justin Bronk nailed it. Love him. Proud Canadian, embarrassed of our politicians!!
Canadian Air Force combat ready is second to none, but they are defending a "FREELOADER SOCIETY". Canada is next to the most powerful country in the world so why would Canada spend more money on defense.
Who is your enemy tho? What are you really defending? Neither Russia nor China has expeditionary military capability. Nothing wrong with 4th Gen fighters with modern missiles.
I served in the RCAF for 23 years. Billie Flynn spells it out clearly and right on point. I was part of the initial cadre training when the Hornet was broughy into Canadian service. The politicians of all stripes are the major reason for the current status of the RCAF.
they've kneecapped the entire Canadian Armed forces as well it's pretty brutal from what I've been hearing our Leopard 2 fleet is in a sorry state of disrepair. A lot of the ground forces equipment is in need of outright replacement as even tho it's been pretty well cared for it's just worn out. And I honestly think we need to bring our defense spending upto 3% of gdp just to modernize things to the point we're not in deep trouble if russia or china decides to cause problems and unless we get the Ukrainians a lot more equipment that war will drag on for at least the next 5 years. And putin has outright stated he would not be happy with just Ukraine.
Who is invading Canada? Russia after two years can not even finish its invasion of right next door Ukraine by land They sure are not beach landing on much further away Canada Geography, NATO and a superpower bordering neighbor is Canada's defence .
Canadian Air Force combat ready is second to none, but they are defending a "FREELOADER SOCIETY". Canada is next to the most powerful country in the world so why would Canada spend more money on defense.
Such a spot on assessment of Canada’s military procurement process! The bean counters view Canada’s capital class ships the same way: if they still float, then they are good to go. ‘Saving pennies, losing dollars’. It would be one thing if this was a ‘one of’ occurrence that Canada could learn from, but instead it’s how we roll. Spot on about Quebec’s whining into contracts that they can’t / don’t have the capability to fulfil at a responsible use of tax payers dollars.., but often tax dollars are shovelled down the gaping maw of whining Quebec businesses to the economic detriment of what Canada actually gets ‘bang for buck’ when cow-towing to Quebec.
Canada always loses to the whiners in Quebec who are pampered and spoiled by all political parties. Quebec plays English Canada for suckers by having Ottawa siphon off money out of productive provinces and giving it to La belle province along with forcing foreign investment and companies to locate in Quebec when they actually would prefer to be in Ontario.
FYI, I commented elsewhere: I wish you were wrong but Canada needs a functional military to defend itself and we don't have one. Most of the money is spent on personnel, not weapons systems. The 'Perun' YT channel has a great video on defense economics and explains very well how some countries spend a lot on defense while receiving little 'bang for the buck'. Fun Fact: Germany spends substantially MORE than France on its military, yet has low capabilities (eg: a handful of small subs & frigates) while France has global power projection and a nuclear Force de Frappe. How do they do it? A very significant percent of the French annual budget goes towards acquiring new, state-of-the-art weapons systems while Germany & Canada spend more on personnel. Canada spends so much on maintaining obsolete planes & choppers, we could have just bought good, new equipment. Important: Don't blame our military for this. It's the ineffective bureaucracy in Ottawa & the Dept. of Defense that's the problem. It has always been like this. eg: In the 1940's they bought APC's for Canada that had no heaters. I wish people would realize that the debacle of Canada's Residential School system was NOT an attempt to kill Native kids, but rather a typical, mismanaged Ottawa program.
Exactly what happened in New Zealand in the early 2000s. The RNZAF doesn't have fighters anymore as a consequence. The strike pilots all went to the RAAF where they were greatly appreciated. Very sad.
Oh yes, I remember when New Zealand got rid of the fighter aircraft and then they went to buy helicopters and that’s it. They only had little. I think they were sea horns or something and they used to keep them in Australia thought they could train and now I’ve only got a few a few out of date helicopters and that’s it.
@@challanger275 Yeah, well, the likes of Jacinda and her predecessors could wipe their leftie hands of all that icky "war" stuff, all the while fully confident that the US would bail them out if push really came to shove.
What has happened in NZ, now with NO fighters what so ever, is a travesty. If it comes to fending off, any unfriendly incursions, They are entirely beholden to their cousins from OZ.
Did a Maple Flag exercise at Cold Lake years ago in an F-111 and flew into Canada in a B52 to allude the Voodos. Those Canadians are top notch. I am half Canadian French so I totally respect those brothers to the north.
The Voodoos were great interceptors and with good combat range in their day suitably replaced by Hornets. I am sure the Lightning IIs will be a great replacement for the Hornets when Canada receives them...
As a young infantry soldier I remember the proud day when the Hornets arrived in Baden, Germany in the mid eighties…State of the art with a lot of pride
I'm a dual citizen of US and Canada, lived in both countries, served as an officer in U.S. Army. I like to keep abreast of all things military, geopolitical, etc. Great, informative podcast. Fantastic insights from people in-the-know. Thanks bunches!
Think all military branches of the 5 eyes alliance are fairly equal because cross train and fight together so much. Meet guys from all over that have stories of working with Australian SASR or Canada JTF2 and have nothing but praise for each other. same with navy and airforce etc.
@@SpruceMoose-iv8un Let me help you understand. I was a U.S.M.C. F/A-18 pilot. We had Canadian, British, and Australian exchange pilots flying with us. Also, I got to fly with a whole Aussie squadron during a Cope Thunder in The Philippines.
Canadian Air Force combat ready is second to none, but they are defending a "FREELOADER SOCIETY". Canada is next to the most powerful country in the world so why would Canada spend more money on defense.
@@xh3598that's the cultural issue at its core, doesn't help that much of the population is shifting from natural born Canadians to people who are fresh to the country but keep their affiliations to where they came from and their original cultures over the country they now reside in
The major issue in the Canadian Forces and RCAF is the unspoken policy of never speaking to the public. No one in Canada knows or cares who is in charge, what the mission is, heck, why there is a military at all. If the Canadian Forces leadership were willing to do interviews and have regular press conferences then possibly people will learn or care. But the absolute crickets that you hear from the military will always lead to a “who cares” attitude. Want more recruits? Maybe if there were actual commercials on that hyped up the military instead of put you to sleep, maybe if there was actual buzz about new equipment, maybe if people actually knew anything about the military other than WW2, then people may understand. To get recruits, to get equipment, means a wholesale change in culture. The next generation needs to see what they get out of a tour or a career in CF. What are the benefits? What schooling is available, what retirement benefits, what jobs outside the military are interested in Vets? Used to be people joined the military to become dentists, doctors, pilots, etc, now those people go to universities for that education because they don’t know it would be cheaper and more hands on getting that education through the military. So, really, Canadian Forces needs to hire a marketing company, and not one from Canada. 🇨🇦
Subsidized education programs are not the problem. They still attract plenty of great recruits. It's retaining them that's the problem. And recruiting more direct entrants.
Because speaking outside of officially sanctioned channels is severely career limited. An officer who wants to climb above major will damned well shut his piehole.(is another politician)
What is both astonishing and sad is it isn't just the Air Force in Canada. The Navy and Army are using ancient equipment that costs more to maintain by the day, and numbers are falling at a horrific rate. Leadership are disconnected and incompetent, politics are more concerned with virtue signaling within the CAF to display a message to the public then have a competent fighting force, and the commitment to deploying and exerting force is dragging the few members left into exhaustion. More than 70% of releases within the Navy a few years ago were Killicks (Leading Seaman/Corporals) not the people you want leaving to pursue careers elsewhere because they are more rewarding, with better compensation, more time at home. Those factors can be made up for by; comradery, cohesion, respect and trust amongst subordinates and leadership, but all those factors have long been missing in the CAF.
As an ex-Canadian - Canada relies on the US for many things including defense obligations - meanwhile Canadians look down their nose to Americans - cede NWT to USA - looks like the liberals dont want it anyway - if you cant defend than you have no rights to the land
Yeah it is sad that Canada stopped using M109 artillery purely for budget reasons. Only towed artillery left now which means the crews have no protection.
A fair number of our warfighter's have made their way to Ukraine and as it is from what I've seen they willingly vacuum up the knowledge and experience and innovate on it from there.
The first time I met Billie was on the flight line at Pax in 2014. He came out to a jet and I asked him about his pilot wings on his flight bag. “If you ask me if they’re Australian I’m goin to kick your ass”. Great guy, glad he’s still in the fight after “retirement”.
Thanks Billie. Proud to have been part of the F18 program at 409 Tac (F) Sqn in Baden. You are a respected pilot and advocate for better times in the RCAF.
I was given a very good piece of advice from a uncle that was career pilot in the RCAF and that was not to join . I took that advice and had a 45 year career in the major airlines . My dad and four other family members were war time pilots. That was 50 years ago this year .
As a former Canadian I had at. 20yrs of age a slot to join the RCAF but when I called my recruiter I was told that due to defence reduction I. Was not needed. Living a mile from up State New York I and my girl friend both joined the USAF. We were sent to different places separated by thousands of miles, which ended our romance. My first duty station was a small radar Site on a mountain in Southern Arizona. In 1967 I met a Wonderful young lady, and married her, she and I are still together with 3 daughters & a son.
Billy, thank you. I am also x RCAF but not nearly at your level, it is still so very depressing that a country with our economic power can not get to 2% of GDP on defence spending. The world is a very dangerous place and we need to step up. Again, Billy thank you.
Money itself doesn't mean anything good. Canada spends on base frigate as much as others are spending on a nuclear sub. The ultra corruption needs to be put to the curb.
Thanks Billie ... Call a spade a spade! Thanks Mike as well. I am a 39 year veteran Canadian fighter pilot. I was the instigator of the ACURL ... I ran up against the politics/theatrics/narcissism and lost in 2013. I so totally agree with Billie's assessment and thank him (and you) for being real and raising the proverbial BS flag. We're not there yet though ... given our governments cut backs on their recent promises.
Back in 1980 I was a Canadian Air Cadet and got my private pilot licence. We still had the (F104, F5 and F101). Even though we were going to finally replace these aircraft with the F18 soon I did not join the military. I knew deep down that Canada underfunds it’s military ever since Pierre Trudeau came into power. Today it is even worse than in 1980 and the Trudeau 2.0 has cut it’s budget again. I am only 11 years older than the F18.
I agree, but Harper's Conservative support for Canada's military really only amounted to a photo-op in the Arctic every year - they all do it, and it's terrible.
@@girthbloodstool339 Ya, as its indicated its all vote pandering unfortunately Defense spending is part of it, and lets face it, most Canadians would rather spend it on healthcare and housing, even though those are in a sorry state now adays lol.
@@MetaliCanuck Part of the purchase price agreement for the hornet was a certain amount had to be spent in Canada. This was a milliion US spent at some business in Canada directly related to the hornet project. Mac Douglas had a carpet manufacturer in Quebec make a giant Canadian flag and shipped it to the first hornet roll out. If you look up the picture of that roll out the hornet is parked on it. the initial F35 buy included support companies in every provinces getting in on the deal. for instance the Joint helmet cct cards were contracted for maintenance in PEI. That is the difference between Conservative contracts and Liberals.
Great guest, this gentleman is an incredible storyteller. I wish Canada would support their talent. Mike should have prepped more for a guy of this caliber, and changed the tone of the show.
Canada is like New Zealand they both have a bigger brother nearby to help them out if ever get in trouble so don't really bother with military equipment. Australia not much better except stepped it up once China became a threat 15 years ago. now going full hard in to hypersonics and AI drones and equipment to bolster a small population and a big country to defend.
A friend's son applied to join the RCAF about 18 months ago. He had all the right qualifications and references. But, after being given the runaround for a year he gave up. Sad.
My son who mwas a dual citizen and received his pilots lience through the cadet program was going to apply to the Canadian airforce When my wife cousin husband who was a USNaval captain said was don't you apply to become on Naval aviator.After 4 years in the US Naval Academy he went on to receive his wings
I'm Canadian and as a Canadian I am very embarrassed by our lack of support to our defense responsibilities and of support to our men and women protecting us by the sad state of modern equipment for them. We have some of the most fierce professional personnel in our military but sadly as mentioned we are losing them due to our Government failing them. The defense of the North is our responsibility as a nation and it's time we as Canadians pressure our Government to support our hero's asap in precuring the necessary equipment such as the new next gen fighters so they can fulfill their mission. Very interesting interview and thank you
5:22 - As a student of US History, I am convinced that Canada DID win the War of 1812. As a consequence of losing the war, Canada forced the US into taking Detroit, which caused much rejoicing and celebration in Windsor, Ontario.
The funniest thing about the Australian hornet purchase? So many people in Canada thought that we purchased Australia’s Super Hornets, especially with the price paid for them. You should’ve seen the look of shock on their faces when I told them, we weren’t getting Supers, we were taking their mothballed legacies. You could see the deflation in their egos happen, in real time.
I seriously doubt most Canadians even know the difference between a legacy hornet and a super hornet. Most Canadians have absolutely no clue about fighter procurement or the state of the RCAF. If you brought it up as a topic of conversation with friends or colleagues their eyes would glaze over. Source ~ am Canadian.
@@Advent22mix most Canadians, sure. I’m in the aviation industry, so I get to hear a lot of “expert” reaction. Even those people were fooled by the distinction. I had to clarify it for them. I also had to explain how old and used those hornets were.
@@chm985 I should add the caveat, the people I know, also know I’m a born and raised avgeek. When they broached the subject with me, they were surprised by my negative reaction to the news and did indeed, think that we were getting Super Hornets, even with their limited knowledge of planes.
I graduated from university in 1969 and applied for aircrew training in the Canadian Air Force. Out of 39 applicants that year, after undergoing extensive medical, physical, and aptitude examinations myself and 8 other candidates were selected for training. I received my orders to report to Victoria for officer training with a stop in Winnipeg to go through high-altitude testing. The week before I was to leave i got a telegram (only in Canada) asking me to report to the recruiting office in Ottawa where I was resident. On attending i was informed that the air force did not have enough money in their budget that year and they had to cancel the entire class, but I could join the Navy if I wanted because they had room and a bit of money left. Pierre started the destruction of the Canadian armed forces and the process has continued, particularly under Trudeau Jr.
It's a bizarre take given that this is the government that has committed to buying the F-35s, P-8s and 330MRTTs. And all of those are now firm orders. There hasn't been a government that committed this much to the RCAF arguably since the 80s.
I left the RCAF 5 years ago after being in a position that had me visit all RCAF Wings and chat with all squadron COs and Wing Commanders. There is so much I could tell and I know it's gotten much worse since then.
"Peace loving" can be viewed as naive about world affairs. The US is a peace loving country...in fact the US loves peace so much that we're willing to sacrifice blood and national treasure to further it. The US does go to war, primarily because other countries don't/won't stand up to bullies. "From what I have seen of our Russian friends and Allies during the war, I am convinced that there is nothing they admire so much as strength, and there is nothing for which they have less respect than for weakness, especially military weakness."......Winston Churchill: Delivered 5 March 1946 at Westminster College, Fulton, Missouri
As a Canadian, as a Québecer. With a mother who worked at CAE during this time frame. It was absolutely amazing to be able to connect some dots. Thank you for this pod cast
The whole of the Canadian Armed Forces is broken. Im a serving 30yrs cmbt veteran of the Army and why would any young man/women want to join an organization in dire straights. We have a government that does NOT support the CAF. "You are asking for too much than we can give" Justin Trudeau
Thanks for doing this. I am US citizen, grew up as son of USAF officer. Tried to join RCAF (previously Canadian Armed Forces) as an officer, Canadian citizens only. RCAF personnel are the best ever! Motivated me big time.
Very good video. I was stationed in Baden-Baden as an infantryman in 1984 when we started getting the CF18 Hornets. I remember listening to the CF104's squealing every morning when going on a 10K run. In 1989, I transitioned to the RCAF as a Communication and Radar System technician and I was at the Canadian Forces School of Aerospace Engineering and Technologies when Golf War 1 broke out. When I competed my training, i was in Comox primarily working on the CP140 Aurora avionics and the Command and Control systems on Harris and Litton systems. The Politicians have always f#ucked over the troops for politics. Not just the Airforce, but look at military vehicle procurement as well. and Bombardier has been squarely in the middle of both. Scary.
We're all missing something IMPORTANT: Our bureaucracy is ineffective. See: Phoenix Pay System. FYI, I commented elsewhere: I wish you were wrong but Canada needs a functional military to defend itself and we don't have one. Most of the money is spent on personnel, not weapons systems. The 'Perun' YT channel has a great video on defense economics and explains very well how some countries spend a lot on defense while receiving little 'bang for the buck'. Fun Fact: Germany spends substantially MORE than France on its military, yet has low capabilities (eg: a handful of small subs & frigates) while France has global power projection and a nuclear Force de Frappe. How do they do it? A very significant percent of the French annual budget goes towards acquiring new, state-of-the-art weapons systems while Germany & Canada spend more on personnel. Canada spends so much on maintaining obsolete planes & choppers, we could have just bought good, new equipment. Important: Don't blame our military for this. It's the ineffective bureaucracy in Ottawa & the Dept. of Defense that's the problem. It has always been like this. eg: In the 1940's they bought APC's for Canada that had no heaters. I wish people would realize that the debacle of Canada's Residential School system was NOT an attempt to kill Native kids, but rather a typical, mismanaged Ottawa program.
As an RCAF Veteran, myself (22 years as a mechanic on CH-47's, CH-135, CH136, and CF-18), who retired in 2007, I DEFINITELY agree that Morale is a HUGE problem right now. I retired in the middle of the fight over the F-35, and POLITICIANS are WAY TOO INVOLVED in the procurement process. ESPECIALLY the fact that Quebec has an almost unlimited Veto power over almost everything the Federal Government does. If ANY decision the Government makes does not DIRECTLY benefit Quebec, they will oppose it, and considering they hold an inordinate amount of seats in Parliament, this gives them a HUGE amount of power. There is also a LOT of politics, posturing, and LYING within the senior ranks of the Canadian Military. Example: When I was in Cold Lake, Every Base was given money that was "SUPPOSED TO" be used for improving the situation, housing, and comfort of the troops. In REALITY - this money was EXPECTED to be used for OPERATIONAL purposes, and the "Comfort of the Troops" was just a Media cover story to make the Brass look good. The Base Commander in Cold Lake actually DEFIED that "understanding" and ACTUALLY USED IT FOR THE TROOPS (We actually got some PROPER Cold Weather footwear that was suitable for the frigid temps we got regularly in Cold Lake). The Base Commander was FIRED for this. Needless to say - WE WERE NOT HAPPY.
I remember watching a few videos of Billie promoting the f35 program for Canada as the lead test pilot, was really proud to see a Canuck part of the program, especially hearing him talk so passionately about the fighter and what it can do, probably the best advocate we could have hoped for. Unfortunately every facet of Canadian politics is just an emotional rollercoaster, im sorry he had to bare witness to the political procurement mess.
In the last 5 years RMC grads were taught to fly and do all the aerobatic fighter manoeuvres etc by an external contractor in external planes. Then they were given desk jobs for 3 years or more while waiting to be trained on any military plane. They waited and waited not only for fighter jet training but also any other types such as transport or helicopter etc. They are indentured to the CAF to serve until they pay off their RMC fees. They have either resigned themselves to purgatory of doing nothing for their country for 5 years or transfered to another branch of the armed forces such as the Army or the Navy. So there will likely be no new fighter pilots coming down the pipeline for over 5 years. During the Covid induced layoffs of pilots by the airlines a number of former fighter pilots returned but that can not replace all the young women and men who have been held back due to austerity and political games. Our politicians and the voters who support them should be so ashamed.
I think Canada's defence problems track back to 1991. Canada, like most of Europe, bought hard into this peace dividend. As a result Canada rapidly began to neglect its military. In my day and service, it was the sea king. I can sit here and go through the list. Sea King to EH-101, Canada class replacement of Oberons...etc. Things are bad now, but it only gets better from here. The war in the Ukraine is a game changer. No one talks about the peace dividend. The fact is Canada dug itself a huge hole. Some good things are happening, but much more is needed. However, a change in Canada's political climate is needed. Canada has to shift from seeing itself as a non-waring nation to a non-waring nation that is prepared to defend itself. I don't see that happening with the current generation of politicians.
I am personally a card-carrying porch-crawling Liberal, who basically despised anything spent on the Canadian Military with a special hatred for offensive weapons, I always thought our military should only be a National Guard Organization, at the same time having the utmost respect for our military personnel, never want to put them in harms way. But now in Today's world and after that Reptile in Russia, started a genocide in Ukraine, I now want the Canadian Military to come to my Liberal Government and tell us what you need and you'd better dam well get it! Billy you do have the support of the population now!
I remember going to an airshow in the States when I was a kid (mid 2000s), there was a CF18 there and I was immediately stuck at how less well maintained it was than the American planes. All the American equipment was immaculate, basically looked brand new. Our plane looked like it was sitting outside for a decade. Pretty much looked 50 years old back then.
Carrier Operations can age an airframe. Same equipment, one never launched or recovered at sea. RCAF CF-18A/B vs USN/USMC F/A-18A/B. I always liked the "false canopy" paint job. (Edit: Lunnox, I misread. You contend that the US birds appeared better maintained in the mid-00's than the RCAF birds, I had it backwards, my apologies.)
@@CallsignJoNay The OP stated that in the mid 00's that the RCAF CF-18s appeared better maintained than the American aircraft (F/A-18's). I stated that the US Marine Corps' and US Navy's F/A-18s will appear much different due to their Carrier ops. US Hornets had much different lives than the Canadian Hornets. EDIT: oops, I misread the OP statement. He was stating that the US equipment was in better shape than the RCAF stuff, my apologies.
@@unfurling3129 Sure it does, Hornets that live off of aircraft carriers have much different lives than land based ones, RCAF Hornets vs. USMC/USN Hornets.
*A hockey sock full of money* If you played hockey you know that hockey socks are open at the top of course, but also open at the bottom too. So it's really a tube! Keep putting money in the top and it falls out the bottom. A bottomless hole is how I interpret the old saying. Cheers from Canada 🇨🇦
Good Morning, Spotted the * FAVOR * comment this morning and checked it out. Up to this point I haven't been much into Podcast, but as it turns out I was in the " Love It " category. I Thoroughly enjoyed the topic and found the whole conversation very enlightening. I will have to go back and check out some of the past shows. Congratulations on making your goal of 20 Podcast this year and keep up the great work.
I'm a Canadian Army Veteran and so embarrassed how our Gouv. is acting toward the CF, Old planes, lack of replacement parts, Not contributing it's 2% GP to NATO. TIME for someone to take charge of our Country.
Multiple governments....both Liberal AND Conservative have put us in this position. People have taken charge of this country for decades and never really invested in the CAF. You think someone like Poilievre is going to change that? He won't.......he'll say he will just to get your vote....but in the end, he won't do a thing.
@@yxeaviationphotogit is up to the voting pubic to tell government to cut the pie up more equitably to allow the military to have what it needs to have.
Awesome show, and thank you for inviting Billy to speak about the Royal Canadian Air Force. I subscribed to your channel instantly and will be following up with your work. Cheers.
Great conversation; and although I was aware of much of the general content as an ex RCAF pilot, Billie shed a ton of insight and new info I was wholly unaware of. Nice to see the content on this particular channel. Go figure, it takes an American channel for a Canadian to see this topic covered in such a comprehensive way.
great to hear an honest assessment of the state of strategic thinking ( or more accurately, the complete and total lack of strategic thinking ) on the part of all of the political parties in Canada over the last 50 years - way to go Billie.
Great interview!!! I am glad he gave voice to where many cannot given the absolute failures the RCAF was subjected too. In Canada, our sovereignty and security has always taken a back to seat to spineless politicians and regional greed.
Bravo Paco you have a new fan and follower. Billie Flynn you need to be made Prime Minister. Sadly our rotting carcass of government maintains the status quo and nothing will change until 3 different countries start challenging our Northern sovereignty. . and then it'll be 30 years too late. And we will lose resource rich land. It's not if, it's when. Canada should be one of the richest countries in the world for our human resources alone. As bad as the RCAF is, our RCN has been gutted same and poached for trained officers by Australia. We should have a mandatory 2 year draft, to strengthen our Northern sovereignty and rebuild the forces. Pound for pound our military men and women are asked to do more with less and older equipment. Politicians should be mandated to serve in the Forces BEFORE any political office. Simple. Our countrys will doesnt have the stones to do any of this.
In Canada, we spend more tax dollars Cancelling Defence Procurement Contracts, than we actually spend on Defence Procurement. in the 1960's We had a Defence Crisis.. now it's just politics as usual. procurement is nothing but a political game.
Billie being a fixed wing guy, you didn't even get to touch on the TWO chopper fiascos; that cluster fornication would need its own Netflix miniseries. I single movie wouldn't do it justice. Pentagon Wars has nothing on that procurement disaster.
My Australian son just returned from 5 years in Canada and he said their defence force is pathetic. But its always been that way. They don't see any threats and assume the USA will do the heavy lifting if they are in trouble. He was in the Navy here for ten years and said Canada pay peanuts to the military. Its at least half what Australia pays. When he left the RAN as a bosun he was on $95k pa. They pay for experience not so much by rank. A sergeant in the Australian army with ten years service would earn $110k pa. And each time to sign on for another 7 years, you get $10k cash, tax free. When he told his Canadian mates some of whom are in the Army, they didn't believe him so he showed them on the recruitment website. But there's a caveat. You have to graduate from high school with an 80% grade point average to enlist at the private level. There a queue a mile long.
The bottom line is that there is far too much bureaucracy in the Canadian government when it comes to military procurement. More or less there's too many foxes in the hen house and no one is accountable due to the lack of leadership. There are to many layers of government duplication and excessive overlap between the roles of the Minister of National Defence, Minister of Public Services and Procurement Canada. Until one person is in charge of the three branches of government and is accountable for the final decision, the future, unfortunately will be the same dog and pony show when it comes to procuring military equipment for our militray serving members.
@@noahway13We’re spending basically zero dollars in Ukraine. 80% of what we’ve given them are arms that were already being scrapped (at great expense), retired or soon to be retired. It was also paid for 40 years ago. So, besides a very few limited areas, we’re not actually having to spend money on the military aid. Moreover, because our stuff is performing so well, like the M270 / HIMARS, which was introduced in the ‘80s and PATRIOT, we’re getting a massive amount of new orders. So, more American jobs and income and tax revenue. And Russian arms sales have tanked. Worth every penny. And pennies is what it’s cost. Less than 1% of our annual defense budget.
Namaste Merge, Then we come to mistakes over the retirement of RAF ISR, AEW and MR manned platforms, first was the Fleet of Nimrods MR'2's and Nimrod R.1's, years without replacement so relaying on Nato Allies to cover the capability gaps for the UK. Until the UK MoD finally ordered very few or would buying only 9 RAF Boeing's Poseidon MRA1 (P-8A) multi-role maritime patrol aircraft version, when at the high point of Nimrod MR.2's service, the RAF had no fewer than 35 Nimrod MR.2's flying! As a the UK is a Maritime nation with naval commitments, across the world’s oceans and seas, just 9 Poseidon MRA1 is too little too late, there is a need for at least 9 more MRA.1's for the RAF too? Though the other question is why did the MoD not buying signals intelligence (SIGINT) and electronic intelligence gathering (ELINT) reconnaissance aircraft version of the Poseidon P-8A, Boeing was offering as a replacement for Nimrod R.1’s SIGINT & ELINT aircraft too? Instead the MoD and the Conservatives replacing the old Nimrod R.1's with even older Boeing and Ex-USAF RC-135 Rivet Joint aircraft. Under the MoD project codenamed Airseeker, just another short sighted mistake too, with these RC-135 Rivet Joint aircraft will needing replacement by 2030's anyway too so this was a false financial saving as well! Then there is the retirement of the RAF Fleet of 7 Boeing E-3D Sentry AEW1's, airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) aircraft developed by Boeing and commonly known as AWACS (Airborne Warning and Control System), is another example of the MoD and UK Governments short slightness too. Which are to be replaced by lower number again of just maybe 5 Boeing 737 AEW&C E-7 Wedgetail's, twin-engine airborne early warning and control aircraft based on the Boeing 737 Next Generation design. With the UK MoD agreeing to purchase just five E-7 Wedgetails in late 2015 onwards, with these aircraft to be designated as "Wedgetail AEW.1’s", now this maybe reduce to just three or only four Wedgetail AEW.1’s? Once again with the world's international crisis, with the illegal Russian war on Ukraine, also the new Israel / Hamas conflict too. Which the Iranian Islamic Regime Ledership, are trying to ignite the whole of the Middle East over it seems too! Along with Iranian Government causing or support Islamic Terrorist Groups, causing troubles in Lebanon, Syria, Iraq and in both the Persian Gulf and Red Sea, let alone in the Indian Ocean it seems too. Then ongoing threats of aggression from North Korea towards South Korea, Japan and the USA in the Far East too. Equally with growing issues with China in the South China Sea and disputed man made Chinese islands, or over Taiwan and in the Pacific Ocean too, Now we have more troubles brewing, over the new Far Right Regime elected in Argentina, with once again making noise or making remarks or open threats being made over the Falklands Islands again as well. The RAF needs both more MRA.1s and more Wedgetail AEW1's too, at least 7 to 9 Wedgetail's and at least 15 to 17 MRA.1's, to cover the RAF and Royal Navy commitments on the international stage. Along with at least 3 to 7 new ISR platforms, especially to replace the three very old RC-135 Rivet Joint aircraft to start with. Though there is the question of a replacement aircraft, which should have been purchased for the early retired of the RAF 5 Raytheon Sentinel R.1 airborne battlefield and ground surveillance aircraft. Which was based on the Bombardier Global Express ultra long-range business jet, with the prime contractor for the Sentinel being the Raytheon, which supplied most of the mission systems and performed the integration work etc. The fact and loss of these 5 Sentinel R.1 airborne battlefield and ground surveillance aircraft, is a major defence capability failing again, also not to just UK Forces but to Nato Allies too. These five Sentinel R.1’s were over worked, while totally underfunded and under resourced too. With promises after promises of Upgrades and Improvement programmes for these 5 Sentinel R.1’s, were made by the MoD and UK Defence Ministers under the Conservative Government, all came to nothing though! Then in 2020 / 2021 MoD said, the long-term retention of the 5 Sentinel R.1’s aircraft, would have necessitated significant expenditure to modernise aging systems, which strengthened the decision to withdraw the entire Sentinel fleet during March 2021.
With instead that new aircraft, such as the Poseidon MRA1 maritime patrol aircraft and the forthcoming Protector UAV drones, could take over from the 5 Sentinel R.1’s and will carry out the surveillance duties formerly performed by the type. These 5 Sentinel R.1’s airframes, only flew approximately 32,300 hours roughly distributed across 4,870 sorties, there was years of Air Time left in these aircraft! Following the 5 Sentinel R.1’s withdrawal from RAF service, the aircraft were sold to a US consortium of Springfield Air, Raytheon US, and Bombardier, in a so called unairworthy condition, at a financial loss to the British Tax Payers once again too! The problem is the RAF has not got enough Poseidon MRA1 maritime patrol aircraft and the Protector UAV ISR drones, to perform their own duties let alone take over duties of the lost of these 5 Sentinel R.1 airborne battlefield and ground surveillance aircraft too? The UK government announced that a contract for the Sentinel R.1’s to receive a maritime-capable software upgrade was to be placed in the spring of 2015. However, due to a combination of its operational commitments and constrained budgets, neither the Sentinel or its missions systems received any upgrades for an extended period. Which led to some of its onboard systems becoming increasingly obsolescent by the end of the decade leading to their retirement again due to bad management by the MoD and UK Government basically. Without looking and listing errors, failures and mistakes, the MoD and the UK Government has made over or with RAF, FAA and AAC Apache, Chinook, Griffon, Lynx, Merlin, Puma, Sea King and Wildcat helicopter programmes, in the last 13 years too.
I will agree with you on most except the retirement of the Nimrods. The Nimrods used an airframe that was difficult to upgrade further given how they were built and used engines that were no longer in production and no one used any more. Switching to the RC-135 and E-3 was better since there is large pool of spares and the engines are available.
"A camel is a horse designed by a committee" is an analogy of how this program and pretty much everything relating to procurement throughout the Canadian military establishment has been over the past 20 years from tanks to fighter planes to submarines and everything in between.
An eye-opening topic! Thank you for connecting us with this overarching view behind the curtain of the Canadian fighter force these recent years. Very educational and informative.
I made an exchange visit to an RCAF MPA base in Nova Scotia back in 1970 to show off our brand new P3C aircraft. The RCAF was planning to retire their Argus a/c . I was a P3 RAg instructor at the time. I was very impressed with the professionalism of the RCAF MPA folks I met. My enduring memory is the hangar was so spotless you could eat on it😅. They bought the P3 a no brainer😂 😂😂😂
Just like here in the U.S., most of the "hosers" are in government. I sure enjoyed the few times I went TDY to the great white north! Maple Flag at Cold Lake when I was active duty USAF, then to Baggotville working with the CF-18s, getting them warmed up for a Tyndall missile shoot, if I recall correctly. (doubtful) Also got a CF-18B backseat ride while there. Pretty neat doing a Cuban-8 without needing afterburner!! Also had a few airshow trips, Montreal and Shearwater, where my frontseater (an ex-Marine) must have impressed the crowd by over-g'ing our jet. I was unimpressed with him, but I WAS impressed with the hospitality of the Canadian hosts during our stays. I should consider myself part Japanese since I was born there, but I feel more like a quasi-Canadian since I spent more time there.
The original Herc, The maritime patrol aircraft, the Sea King, the Star Fighter,(that the CF18 replaced in the 80s) amongst others. Canada definitely has had a problem with military procurement since its conception. Canada has always neglected its defence, and doesn’t deserve its servicemen and veterans sacrifices.
After the CIAS in Toronto this year, we watched them repairing the CF-18 that flew there. They were repairing the wing box area of the plane. The plane was noticeably NOT performing the same high G maneuvers they used to and they still had to repair it anyway. I've also noticed that the planes are a bo-show a lot more often due to "technical issues" lately. Sad state of affairs for our pilots since I'm assuming this is the norm lately and not just isolated issues with show planes.
Excellent episode. If it had been possible to keep the "politics" out of it the RCAF should have gotten in on the Eurofighter program in the 90s and could have had Typhoons - which totally fit Canada's requirements - as a long term platform to base 5/6 Gen future needs from rather than legacy Hornets.
So what was Canada going to fly between the 1950s era CF-101 / CF-104 / CF-5 and the late to develop Typhoon? Like Australia, Canada should have got on the Super Hornet / Growler train to supplement the Classic Hornets once it was clear the F-35 was falling behind. Then as things degraded for the overall fighter force, Canada could have dipped its toe in on the F-35 with a late block (LRIP 12-14) F-35B buy of say 24 for northern remote ops like the USMC expeditionary plans, while it waited for the Block 4. But that would require the country to be serious about defence.
@@djsmith2871 I said 1990 for involvement/intention to purchase. It had the Hornet from the mid 80's, it could have had the Typhoon - a proper Air Superiority/Long Range interceptor from 2004. With the Likes of Meteor capability coming on stream it would have a platform that would meet pretty much all it's needs until almost 2040. At which point something (anything!) Better than F35 may well be available to them. Considering Canadian defence budgets they may well be saddled with F35 beyond 2050.....if it can even still fly by that point.
An interesting concept that I'll have to think through. Would have liked to see Canada get in on the electronic attack aspect of 4th Gen / 5th Gen mix with the Growler, but at this point Canada can't even generate a Hornet flight for a Remembrance Day flypast, so that may be stretching fantasy beyond the realm. Typhoon would have kept things to a single platform with a single seat, which is all Canada seems to be willing or able to support now.
@@djsmith2871 I've always said that Canada needs a two fighter air force. Canada in my strongest opinion should have opted into the Grumman F-14 program when it was around and bought those. The range, speed and long legs fits a perfect profile for defending Canadian airspace while having a lighter weight less expensive fighter to fill the gap where the F-14 would lack. But then again that's just me.
Regarding the P 8 and Boeing, one factor you seem to overlooked is that the Canadian government despises Boeing. This is a result of Boeing seeking to stop export to the US of a small DC 9 replacement developed by Canadair. Eventually the aircraft was given away to Airbus for $1.00. Eventually the Boeing action was overturned but too late for Canadair.
It's insane we've reached this point. Absolute negligence on the part of the entire country.
Trudeau is acting on-bahalf of the Russians and Chinese.
Russia recognized the problem way ahead of the game, mainly through their extensive network of moles in NORAD, US DoD, and RCAF.
The big threat to Russian bomber ingress is the vast network to be formed by USAF Alaska, RCAF, and ANG Vermont via the JSF MADL web.
Especially networked with drum roll.........maritime patrol aircraft like the P-8A Poseidon, the JSF NORAD fleet will bring unprecedented strategic SA to the Northern Hemisphere.
Trudeau set Canada and NORAD back a decade in this regard. He's a cursed traitor to his countrymen and needs to be held accountable for his inexcusable conduct.
thanks loving the show
Yep. My father was in RCAF during the 60's station at Coldlake as 104 engineer. As well as is a good friend who was F18 pilot about 20 ywars ago. Both talk about how bad it is now. Biggest political disaster
Is part of Canada’s issue that the general population assumes the U.S. military will cover their butts (which is the EU’s problem too)? So, that paired with a pacifist strain, equals big problems?
@@The_ZeroLine The issue is Canada has never had to fight for anything in its existence. Notice I said "had to", not chose to. It was granted independence from England without much of even asking, and Quebec - the most politically powerful province has just whined for everything it has been given within Canada, and its population is the most left leaning in the country. Very anti-war and like much of the rest of Canada smugly anti-American. We are "better than them", which often translates into whatever the Americans are doing we should do the opposite.
So all that to say, pretty much yes.
Contrast Canada with Australia, which had some of its citizens taken prisoner in WW2, as Japan's advance got very up close and personal to that country. Now look at their military today - in terms of capability not just spending - and you might notice a different response to the increased threat in the Pacific.
I'm a Canadian born, dual Australian/Canadian Citizen. My Mum's father was in the RCAF and flew Lancasters in WW2, and was in a Sabre Squadron in Germany. My brother and his wife both joined the RCAF and retired after long careers. I was in the RCAF briefly, but ended up in Australia and joined the Australian Army and was a rotary wing pilot. My Dad's family were Aussies and have a long legacy in the Australian military. The difference between the RCAF & the RAAF is stark. The RAAF is a modern, well equipped Air Arm with AWACS, F-35, FA-18F, EF-18G, JORN etc, while the RCAF is a hollowed out shell of what it used to be. The Aussies are a fighting force, the Canadians are a "Peace Keeping" Force, and the Canadian Gov't barely cares about the military, the opposite of how the Australian Gov't thinks. Australia knows it's at the sharp end, on its own, and learned the lessons of WW2 when they were abandoned by the UK, while Canada seems to think it's more of an irritant to have a military and only does the bare minimum to meet its NATO & NORAD obligations. The Canadian Gov't uses military procurement as an election football. It breaks my heart to see how far the RCAF has fallen. Gov't bungling has left the military in dreadful shape, and they have not served the wonderful people, who serve them in the Defence Force, well at all. It's disgraceful.
The Australian Army, too, is significantly better equipped than Canadian Army almost anywhere you look, from the rifles to the rotary to the tanks and artillery.
And the Navies... MAN! Insane difference. Australia could, if it really wanted to, get carrier fixed wing aviation. It'd be kinda dumb, so Australia won't, but it's possible. Canada barely has frigates and submarines. Their readiness is terrible, their weapons outdated.
While some of what you say is true not all it is, Australia has many shortfalls in its military aswell and it is considerably smaller than Canada's plus the fact that Australia is not encumbered by constant calls from NATO and the United nations with their hand out plus the enormous scale of our territory in which you could lose Australia in
....
Eh? Australia is about 80% the size of Canada, and is nearly as wide as Canada is from sea to sea.
Canada's military is also not much larger than Australia's.
Canada:
68,000 active
27,000 reserve
Australia:
60,330 active personnel
29,740 reserve@@BradFalck-mn3pc
Single digit % difference.
@@BradFalck-mn3pc and what United Nations commitments encumber us, exactly........? Does anyone at all recognize Canada's status in "peacekeeping", other than Canadians patting ourselves on the back?
Every. Single. Area of military procurement in Canada is bungled beyond belief. How exactly do you describe the Leo 2A4/2A6 rollercoaster? Our sad, sad chronically ill subs? Our new icebreakers that are still nowhere to be found, even though they're the societally progressive/politically palatable procurement item? Between the former DDGs, current FFGs, and the Type 26 deal Navy still can't decide on its own identity. Mediocre F35 deal was replaced by an equally mediocre F35 deal, but now appallingly late and actually a terrible deal after wasting all that time and taxpayer money on a "competition"? Geriatric CP-140 still has to labour on because the lay Canadian thinks copium headcanon > P-8? Absolute dinosaur Hornets expected to..........do what exactly, with their APG-73s? And we bought more of the dinosaurs from Australia, to keep in that state because again we can't put 100% into any decision including APG-79v4 retrofit.
I don't think anyone is under the illusion that Australia is perfect, but everyone is damn near perfect when measured against Canada as a benchmark.
@@superfamilyallosauridae6505it's not the personnel differences, it's the quality of its equipment,and capabilities, that give Australia's military the edge over Canada's military in 2023!!
Canadian Army guy here. It’s every bit as haunting as it is refreshing to hear that all branches - and trades - of the CAF are suffering in equal measure (especially in terms of shoddy recruiting, plummeting training standards, all the retention of wet tissue paper, obsolete and underpowered kit, and a neglectful government that ensures zero positive change). Thank you for bringing the stark facts of this crisis to the fore. Parliament can only be held to account if far more people know about this.
Watching from Canada. Thank you for doing this episode!
Canada's military has been ignored for over 3 decades by BOTH ruling parties. This was deliberate ignorance. Canada has not had responsible government for over 50 years.
3 decades or 50 years....
i mean, people forget that canada is one of the prime investitors of the f35 program and developper. just canadians voted to leave the program with trudeau and it threw the rcaf in a terrible political loop to scramble. now we have to rebuy ourselves into the 2nd and third line maintenance programs trudeau had to PAY TO LEAVE
Didn't you hear? It's actually because of *socialism*! /s
Don't worry, Trudeau's buddies will get their share@@invertedv12powerhouse77
Well there are two trains of thought. One is with the end of the cold war how much money should the country spend on defence? The other is finding that sweat spot that provides for our national defence while spreading funding across all the branches in the military.
Retired Canadian Forces Officer here. What Billie says is so true and sad. Justin Bronk nailed it. Love him. Proud Canadian, embarrassed of our politicians!!
I wish ... Biden would invade and get it over with !!!
@@DarkpawTheWolf yes good guess but no Justin Bronk’s evaluation of our airforce.
Canadian Air Force combat ready is second to none, but they are defending a "FREELOADER SOCIETY". Canada is next to the most powerful country in the world so why would Canada spend more money on defense.
Who is your enemy tho? What are you really defending? Neither Russia nor China has expeditionary military capability. Nothing wrong with 4th Gen fighters with modern missiles.
Guess we need to cut ties with the US
I served in the RCAF for 23 years. Billie Flynn spells it out clearly and right on point. I was part of the initial cadre training when the Hornet was broughy into Canadian service.
The politicians of all stripes are the major reason for the current status of the RCAF.
they've kneecapped the entire Canadian Armed forces as well it's pretty brutal from what I've been hearing our Leopard 2 fleet is in a sorry state of disrepair. A lot of the ground forces equipment is in need of outright replacement as even tho it's been pretty well cared for it's just worn out. And I honestly think we need to bring our defense spending upto 3% of gdp just to modernize things to the point we're not in deep trouble if russia or china decides to cause problems and unless we get the Ukrainians a lot more equipment that war will drag on for at least the next 5 years. And putin has outright stated he would not be happy with just Ukraine.
Who is invading Canada?
Russia after two years can not even finish its invasion of right next door Ukraine by land
They sure are not beach landing on much further away Canada
Geography, NATO and a superpower bordering neighbor is Canada's defence .
The numbed into oblivion populace demanded (at least allowed) this state of disrepair.
Canadian Air Force combat ready is second to none, but they are defending a "FREELOADER SOCIETY". Canada is next to the most powerful country in the world so why would Canada spend more money on defense.
Dear Billie, please do not return to Canada
Such a spot on assessment of Canada’s military procurement process! The bean counters view Canada’s capital class ships the same way: if they still float, then they are good to go. ‘Saving pennies, losing dollars’. It would be one thing if this was a ‘one of’ occurrence that Canada could learn from, but instead it’s how we roll. Spot on about Quebec’s whining into contracts that they can’t / don’t have the capability to fulfil at a responsible use of tax payers dollars.., but often tax dollars are shovelled down the gaping maw of whining Quebec businesses to the economic detriment of what Canada actually gets ‘bang for buck’ when cow-towing to Quebec.
Well the ships specifically are a handout to the Irvings and the East Coast provinces they own
Canada always loses to the whiners in Quebec who are pampered and spoiled by all political parties. Quebec plays English Canada for suckers by having Ottawa siphon off money out of productive provinces and giving it to La belle province along with forcing foreign investment and companies to locate in Quebec when they actually would prefer to be in Ontario.
FYI, I commented elsewhere: I wish you were wrong but Canada needs a functional military to defend itself and we don't have one. Most of the money is spent on personnel, not weapons systems. The 'Perun' YT channel has a great video on defense economics and explains very well how some countries spend a lot on defense while receiving little 'bang for the buck'. Fun Fact: Germany spends substantially MORE than France on its military, yet has low capabilities (eg: a handful of small subs & frigates) while France has global power projection and a nuclear Force de Frappe. How do they do it? A very significant percent of the French annual budget goes towards acquiring new, state-of-the-art weapons systems while Germany & Canada spend more on personnel. Canada spends so much on maintaining obsolete planes & choppers, we could have just bought good, new equipment. Important: Don't blame our military for this. It's the ineffective bureaucracy in Ottawa & the Dept. of Defense that's the problem. It has always been like this. eg: In the 1940's they bought APC's for Canada that had no heaters. I wish people would realize that the debacle of Canada's Residential School system was NOT an attempt to kill Native kids, but rather a typical, mismanaged Ottawa program.
I noticed the downturn when I renlisted in 2009. I quit after one year.
waste of cash
Exactly what happened in New Zealand in the early 2000s. The RNZAF doesn't have fighters anymore as a consequence. The strike pilots all went to the RAAF where they were greatly appreciated. Very sad.
There are several Americans that fear that China will attack New Zealand on their way to take Austrailia.
Oh yes, I remember when New Zealand got rid of the fighter aircraft and then they went to buy helicopters and that’s it. They only had little. I think they were sea horns or something and they used to keep them in Australia thought they could train and now I’ve only got a few a few out of date helicopters and that’s it.
@@challanger275 Yeah, well, the likes of Jacinda and her predecessors could wipe their leftie hands of all that icky "war" stuff, all the while fully confident that the US would bail them out if push really came to shove.
What has happened in NZ, now with NO fighters what so ever, is a travesty. If it comes to fending off, any unfriendly incursions, They are entirely beholden to their cousins from OZ.
Did a Maple Flag exercise at Cold Lake years ago in an F-111 and flew into Canada in a B52 to allude the Voodos. Those Canadians are top notch. I am half Canadian French so I totally respect those brothers to the north.
French Canadian*
Sorry I had to 😂
@@snakeoo7caCanadien, oui!
The Voodoos were great interceptors and with good combat range in their day suitably replaced by Hornets. I am sure the Lightning IIs will be a great replacement for the Hornets when Canada receives them...
As a young infantry soldier I remember the proud day when the Hornets arrived in Baden, Germany in the mid eighties…State of the art with a lot of pride
There still building state of the art F18s and there a lot cheaper than F22
l remember that day also! 2PPCLI rules.
@@brendanmorrissey2104 VP Dirty Patricia
And yet us RCD were given Leopard one toy tanks in Lahr. The German’s begged us to replace them with Leopard two’s to no avail
I remember when the CF 18’s showed up and the 104’s left Lahr
I'm a dual citizen of US and Canada, lived in both countries, served as an officer in U.S. Army. I like to keep abreast of all things military, geopolitical, etc. Great, informative podcast. Fantastic insights from people in-the-know. Thanks bunches!
I was a Jarhead from ‘86 to ‘96, flying Hornets. The Canadian and Australian pilots I encountered were extremely proficient.
Think all military branches of the 5 eyes alliance are fairly equal because cross train and fight together so much.
Meet guys from all over that have stories of working with Australian SASR or Canada JTF2 and have nothing but praise for each other. same with navy and airforce etc.
I don't understand your post, Jarhead is a term from the U.S marines, not Canadian airforce pilots?
@@SpruceMoose-iv8un Let me help you understand. I was a U.S.M.C. F/A-18 pilot. We had Canadian, British, and Australian exchange pilots flying with us. Also, I got to fly with a whole Aussie squadron during a Cope Thunder in The Philippines.
Canadian Air Force combat ready is second to none, but they are defending a "FREELOADER SOCIETY". Canada is next to the most powerful country in the world so why would Canada spend more money on defense.
@@xh3598that's the cultural issue at its core, doesn't help that much of the population is shifting from natural born Canadians to people who are fresh to the country but keep their affiliations to where they came from and their original cultures over the country they now reside in
The major issue in the Canadian Forces and RCAF is the unspoken policy of never speaking to the public. No one in Canada knows or cares who is in charge, what the mission is, heck, why there is a military at all. If the Canadian Forces leadership were willing to do interviews and have regular press conferences then possibly people will learn or care. But the absolute crickets that you hear from the military will always lead to a “who cares” attitude. Want more recruits? Maybe if there were actual commercials on that hyped up the military instead of put you to sleep, maybe if there was actual buzz about new equipment, maybe if people actually knew anything about the military other than WW2, then people may understand. To get recruits, to get equipment, means a wholesale change in culture. The next generation needs to see what they get out of a tour or a career in CF. What are the benefits? What schooling is available, what retirement benefits, what jobs outside the military are interested in Vets? Used to be people joined the military to become dentists, doctors, pilots, etc, now those people go to universities for that education because they don’t know it would be cheaper and more hands on getting that education through the military. So, really, Canadian Forces needs to hire a marketing company, and not one from Canada. 🇨🇦
Subsidized education programs are not the problem. They still attract plenty of great recruits. It's retaining them that's the problem. And recruiting more direct entrants.
Many of the qualifications the military certifies you in are not transferable to civilian industry. It keeps a lot of military trades short staffed.
Good point !
Because speaking outside of officially sanctioned channels is severely career limited. An officer who wants to climb above major will damned well shut his piehole.(is another politician)
Canada could implement national service, a military draft, or better yet do as the Royal Navy used to do, impress...
Didn't know it was this bad, especially with the P-8 situation.
Thumbs-up to a sobering truth
@@TheMergeMediaruclips.net/video/p9QGO7hDGxw/видео.htmlsi=4_RILtlnxRkYSffB
What is both astonishing and sad is it isn't just the Air Force in Canada. The Navy and Army are using ancient equipment that costs more to maintain by the day, and numbers are falling at a horrific rate. Leadership are disconnected and incompetent, politics are more concerned with virtue signaling within the CAF to display a message to the public then have a competent fighting force, and the commitment to deploying and exerting force is dragging the few members left into exhaustion. More than 70% of releases within the Navy a few years ago were Killicks (Leading Seaman/Corporals) not the people you want leaving to pursue careers elsewhere because they are more rewarding, with better compensation, more time at home. Those factors can be made up for by; comradery, cohesion, respect and trust amongst subordinates and leadership, but all those factors have long been missing in the CAF.
As an ex-Canadian - Canada relies on the US for many things including defense obligations - meanwhile Canadians look down their nose to Americans - cede NWT to USA - looks like the liberals dont want it anyway - if you cant defend than you have no rights to the land
Yeah it is sad that Canada stopped using M109 artillery purely for budget reasons. Only towed artillery left now which means the crews have no protection.
As the Russians have learned in ukraine, you need more corporals than colonels
A fair number of our warfighter's have made their way to Ukraine and as it is from what I've seen they willingly vacuum up the knowledge and experience and innovate on it from there.
Idk how old the Halifax destroyers are? Need major updates there as well
The first time I met Billie was on the flight line at Pax in 2014. He came out to a jet and I asked him about his pilot wings on his flight bag. “If you ask me if they’re Australian I’m goin to kick your ass”. Great guy, glad he’s still in the fight after “retirement”.
🤣
Thanks Billie. Proud to have been part of the F18 program at 409 Tac (F) Sqn in Baden.
You are a respected pilot and advocate for better times in the RCAF.
I was given a very good piece of advice from a uncle that was career pilot in the RCAF and that was not to join .
I took that advice and had a 45 year career in the major airlines .
My dad and four other family members were war time pilots.
That was 50 years ago this year .
As a former Canadian I had at. 20yrs of age a slot to join the RCAF but when I called my recruiter I was told that due to defence reduction I. Was not needed. Living a mile from up State New York I and my girl friend both joined the USAF. We were sent to different places separated by thousands of miles, which ended our romance. My first duty station was a small radar Site on a mountain in Southern Arizona. In 1967 I met a Wonderful young lady, and married her, she and I are still together with 3 daughters & a son.
Happy to hear it all worked out for you.
I had no idea that the RCAF was in such sorry shape. Thanks for having Billie Flynn on. I followed him in the instagram right after watching this.
Billy, thank you. I am also x RCAF but not nearly at your level, it is still so very depressing that a country with our economic power can not get to 2% of GDP on defence spending. The world is a very dangerous place and we need to step up. Again, Billy thank you.
Money itself doesn't mean anything good. Canada spends on base frigate as much as others are spending on a nuclear sub. The ultra corruption needs to be put to the curb.
Thanks Billie ... Call a spade a spade! Thanks Mike as well. I am a 39 year veteran Canadian fighter pilot. I was the instigator of the ACURL ... I ran up against the politics/theatrics/narcissism and lost in 2013. I so totally agree with Billie's assessment and thank him (and you) for being real and raising the proverbial BS flag. We're not there yet though ... given our governments cut backs on their recent promises.
If you can not defend it you do not own it.
Surely Canada is worth stepping up to defend!
Don Hansen
Back in 1980 I was a Canadian Air Cadet and got my private pilot licence. We still had the (F104, F5 and F101). Even though we were going to finally replace these aircraft with the F18 soon I did not join the military. I knew deep down that Canada underfunds it’s military ever since Pierre Trudeau came into power. Today it is even worse than in 1980 and the Trudeau 2.0 has cut it’s budget again. I am only 11 years older than the F18.
My error, I am 18 to 20 years older than the F18
I agree, but Harper's Conservative support for Canada's military really only amounted to a photo-op in the Arctic every year - they all do it, and it's terrible.
@@edmanzini3664 Just don't forget , a majority of the equipment was also procured by Pierre, including the CF-18.
@@girthbloodstool339 Ya, as its indicated its all vote pandering unfortunately Defense spending is part of it, and lets face it, most Canadians would rather spend it on healthcare and housing, even though those are in a sorry state now adays lol.
@@MetaliCanuck Part of the purchase price agreement for the hornet was a certain amount had to be spent in Canada. This was a milliion US spent at some business in Canada directly related to the hornet project. Mac Douglas had a carpet manufacturer in Quebec make a giant Canadian flag and shipped it to the first hornet roll out. If you look up the picture of that roll out the hornet is parked on it. the initial F35 buy included support companies in every provinces getting in on the deal. for instance the Joint helmet cct cards were contracted for maintenance in PEI. That is the difference between Conservative contracts and Liberals.
Billie nailed it on all counts. The RCAF is a mess, and I have as much scar tissue as he does.
Now the Canadian Liberal government is cutting
$15 billion from the military budget
@@murrayhelmer8941 Can't fix stupid
Great guest, this gentleman is an incredible storyteller. I wish Canada would support their talent. Mike should have prepped more for a guy of this caliber, and changed the tone of the show.
Another great episode, thanks Mike!
Compared to Australia. Canada is so far behind
Canada is like New Zealand they both have a bigger brother nearby to help them out if ever get in trouble so don't really bother with military equipment.
Australia not much better except stepped it up once China became a threat 15 years ago. now going full hard in to hypersonics and AI drones and equipment to bolster a small population and a big country to defend.
Its taken for granted that Canada is under the protection of the CONUS USAF umbrella. It;'s not right, but that's
been taken for granted.
This was entertaining. Great interview with a brilliant guest. Thank you
A friend's son applied to join the RCAF about 18 months ago. He had all the right qualifications and references. But, after being given the runaround for a year he gave up. Sad.
My son who mwas a dual citizen and received his pilots lience through the cadet program was going to apply to the Canadian airforce When my wife cousin husband who was a USNaval captain said was don't you apply to become on Naval aviator.After 4 years in the US Naval Academy he went on to receive his wings
@@thomasklimchuk441 naval aviator is a cool job, I wouldn't want to land at night on a carrier though that sounds insanely scary haha
I'm Canadian and as a Canadian I am very embarrassed by our lack of support to our defense responsibilities and of support to our men and women protecting us by the sad state of modern equipment for them. We have some of the most fierce professional personnel in our military but sadly as mentioned we are losing them due to our Government failing them. The defense of the North is our responsibility as a nation and it's time we as Canadians pressure our Government to support our hero's asap in precuring the necessary equipment such as the new next gen fighters so they can fulfill their mission.
Very interesting interview and thank you
We need subs up in the Arctic as well.
5:22 - As a student of US History, I am convinced that Canada DID win the War of 1812. As a consequence of losing the war, Canada forced the US into taking Detroit, which caused much rejoicing and celebration in Windsor, Ontario.
That’s funny.
The funniest thing about the Australian hornet purchase? So many people in Canada thought that we purchased Australia’s Super Hornets, especially with the price paid for them. You should’ve seen the look of shock on their faces when I told them, we weren’t getting Supers, we were taking their mothballed legacies. You could see the deflation in their egos happen, in real time.
🤣
I've never heard anyone say that before.
I seriously doubt most Canadians even know the difference between a legacy hornet and a super hornet. Most Canadians have absolutely no clue about fighter procurement or the state of the RCAF. If you brought it up as a topic of conversation with friends or colleagues their eyes would glaze over.
Source ~ am Canadian.
@@Advent22mix most Canadians, sure. I’m in the aviation industry, so I get to hear a lot of “expert” reaction. Even those people were fooled by the distinction. I had to clarify it for them. I also had to explain how old and used those hornets were.
@@chm985 I should add the caveat, the people I know, also know I’m a born and raised avgeek. When they broached the subject with me, they were surprised by my negative reaction to the news and did indeed, think that we were getting Super Hornets, even with their limited knowledge of planes.
I graduated from university in 1969 and applied for aircrew training in the Canadian Air Force. Out of 39 applicants that year, after undergoing extensive medical, physical, and aptitude examinations myself and 8 other candidates were selected for training. I received my orders to report to Victoria for officer training with a stop in Winnipeg to go through high-altitude testing. The week before I was to leave i got a telegram (only in Canada) asking me to report to the recruiting office in Ottawa where I was resident. On attending i was informed that the air force did not have enough money in their budget that year and they had to cancel the entire class, but I could join the Navy if I wanted because they had room and a bit of money left. Pierre started the destruction of the Canadian armed forces and the process has continued, particularly under Trudeau Jr.
similar to my experience in !974
It's a bizarre take given that this is the government that has committed to buying the F-35s, P-8s and 330MRTTs. And all of those are now firm orders. There hasn't been a government that committed this much to the RCAF arguably since the 80s.
Fantastic insight. Thanks so much for this interview.
We need a modern navy in Canada.
Great video, a must watch for Canadians. Thank you Billie Flynn!
Billie Flynn is such a well spoken person. Seen him on other pods and he is great.
I left the RCAF 5 years ago after being in a position that had me visit all RCAF Wings and chat with all squadron COs and Wing Commanders. There is so much I could tell and I know it's gotten much worse since then.
"Peace loving" can be viewed as naive about world affairs. The US is a peace loving country...in fact the US loves peace so much that we're willing to sacrifice blood and national treasure to further it. The US does go to war, primarily because other countries don't/won't stand up to bullies.
"From what I have seen of our Russian friends and Allies during the war, I am convinced that there is nothing they admire so much as strength, and there is nothing for which they have less respect than for weakness, especially military weakness."......Winston Churchill: Delivered 5 March 1946 at Westminster College, Fulton, Missouri
As a Canadian, as a Québecer. With a mother who worked at CAE during this time frame. It was absolutely amazing to be able to connect some dots. Thank you for this pod cast
The whole of the Canadian Armed Forces is broken. Im a serving 30yrs cmbt veteran of the Army and why would any young man/women want to join an organization in dire straights. We have a government that does NOT support the CAF.
"You are asking for too much than we can give" Justin Trudeau
Thanks for doing this. I am US citizen, grew up as son of USAF officer. Tried to join RCAF (previously Canadian Armed Forces) as an officer, Canadian citizens only. RCAF personnel are the best ever! Motivated me big time.
Very good video. I was stationed in Baden-Baden as an infantryman in 1984 when we started getting the CF18 Hornets. I remember listening to the CF104's squealing every morning when going on a 10K run. In 1989, I transitioned to the RCAF as a Communication and Radar System technician and I was at the Canadian Forces School of Aerospace Engineering and Technologies when Golf War 1 broke out. When I competed my training, i was in Comox primarily working on the CP140 Aurora avionics and the Command and Control systems on Harris and Litton systems.
The Politicians have always f#ucked over the troops for politics. Not just the Airforce, but look at military vehicle procurement as well. and Bombardier has been squarely in the middle of both.
Scary.
We're all missing something IMPORTANT: Our bureaucracy is ineffective. See: Phoenix Pay System. FYI, I commented elsewhere: I wish you were wrong but Canada needs a functional military to defend itself and we don't have one. Most of the money is spent on personnel, not weapons systems. The 'Perun' YT channel has a great video on defense economics and explains very well how some countries spend a lot on defense while receiving little 'bang for the buck'. Fun Fact: Germany spends substantially MORE than France on its military, yet has low capabilities (eg: a handful of small subs & frigates) while France has global power projection and a nuclear Force de Frappe. How do they do it? A very significant percent of the French annual budget goes towards acquiring new, state-of-the-art weapons systems while Germany & Canada spend more on personnel. Canada spends so much on maintaining obsolete planes & choppers, we could have just bought good, new equipment. Important: Don't blame our military for this. It's the ineffective bureaucracy in Ottawa & the Dept. of Defense that's the problem. It has always been like this. eg: In the 1940's they bought APC's for Canada that had no heaters. I wish people would realize that the debacle of Canada's Residential School system was NOT an attempt to kill Native kids, but rather a typical, mismanaged Ottawa program.
I have fond memories attending an air show at the base in Baden Baden ( I think it was in a town called Buehl) Great show.
@seangregory4339 Yes, it would have been Bühl about 15 Km south of the base. I was back a few years ago for a visit.
As an RCAF Veteran, myself (22 years as a mechanic on CH-47's, CH-135, CH136, and CF-18), who retired in 2007, I DEFINITELY agree that Morale is a HUGE problem right now. I retired in the middle of the fight over the F-35, and POLITICIANS are WAY TOO INVOLVED in the procurement process. ESPECIALLY the fact that Quebec has an almost unlimited Veto power over almost everything the Federal Government does. If ANY decision the Government makes does not DIRECTLY benefit Quebec, they will oppose it, and considering they hold an inordinate amount of seats in Parliament, this gives them a HUGE amount of power.
There is also a LOT of politics, posturing, and LYING within the senior ranks of the Canadian Military. Example: When I was in Cold Lake, Every Base was given money that was "SUPPOSED TO" be used for improving the situation, housing, and comfort of the troops. In REALITY - this money was EXPECTED to be used for OPERATIONAL purposes, and the "Comfort of the Troops" was just a Media cover story to make the Brass look good. The Base Commander in Cold Lake actually DEFIED that "understanding" and ACTUALLY USED IT FOR THE TROOPS (We actually got some PROPER Cold Weather footwear that was suitable for the frigid temps we got regularly in Cold Lake). The Base Commander was FIRED for this. Needless to say - WE WERE NOT HAPPY.
Love the show!
Thank you for all you’re doing!
😎 Thank you!
Awesome interview,....Learned a hell of a lot!!!
I remember watching a few videos of Billie promoting the f35 program for Canada as the lead test pilot, was really proud to see a Canuck part of the program, especially hearing him talk so passionately about the fighter and what it can do, probably the best advocate we could have hoped for. Unfortunately every facet of Canadian politics is just an emotional rollercoaster, im sorry he had to bare witness to the political procurement mess.
Fascinating interview. Great job Pako and Billie. 👍
❤❤
Great insight!
In the last 5 years RMC grads were taught to fly and do all the aerobatic fighter manoeuvres etc by an external contractor in external planes. Then they were given desk jobs for 3 years or more while waiting to be trained on any military plane. They waited and waited not only for fighter jet training but also any other types such as transport or helicopter etc. They are indentured to the CAF to serve until they pay off their RMC fees. They have either resigned themselves to purgatory of doing nothing for their country for 5 years or transfered to another branch of the armed forces such as the Army or the Navy. So there will likely be no new fighter pilots coming down the pipeline for over 5 years. During the Covid induced layoffs of pilots by the airlines a number of former fighter pilots returned but that can not replace all the young women and men who have been held back due to austerity and political games. Our politicians and the voters who support them should be so ashamed.
Very eye opening briefing. Thanks so much and thanks for all the pods. Enjoy them all!
Thanks!
It’s a disgrace that our military is at this state
Agreed.
Who makes it? What city is the shipyard at?
Great show Mike. Great guest. Started watching your show after seeing you on Ward Carroll. I get your newsletter too. Awesome. Thanks
Thanks for the support--spread the word!
Thank u for your service
weee....first. Happy to be here!
I appreciate your input and service. Semper Fi
I think Canada's defence problems track back to 1991. Canada, like most of Europe, bought hard into this peace dividend. As a result Canada rapidly began to neglect its military. In my day and service, it was the sea king. I can sit here and go through the list. Sea King to EH-101, Canada class replacement of Oberons...etc. Things are bad now, but it only gets better from here. The war in the Ukraine is a game changer. No one talks about the peace dividend. The fact is Canada dug itself a huge hole. Some good things are happening, but much more is needed. However, a change in Canada's political climate is needed. Canada has to shift from seeing itself as a non-waring nation to a non-waring nation that is prepared to defend itself. I don't see that happening with the current generation of politicians.
I am personally a card-carrying porch-crawling Liberal, who basically despised anything spent on the Canadian Military with a special hatred for offensive weapons, I always thought our military should only be a National Guard Organization, at the same time having the utmost respect for our military personnel, never want to put them in harms way. But now in Today's world and after that Reptile in Russia, started a genocide in Ukraine, I now want the Canadian Military to come to my Liberal Government and tell us what you need and you'd better dam well get it! Billy you do have the support of the population now!
So it is your fault.
I remember going to an airshow in the States when I was a kid (mid 2000s), there was a CF18 there and I was immediately stuck at how less well maintained it was than the American planes. All the American equipment was immaculate, basically looked brand new.
Our plane looked like it was sitting outside for a decade. Pretty much looked 50 years old back then.
Carrier Operations can age an airframe. Same equipment, one never launched or recovered at sea. RCAF CF-18A/B vs USN/USMC F/A-18A/B. I always liked the "false canopy" paint job. (Edit: Lunnox, I misread. You contend that the US birds appeared better maintained in the mid-00's than the RCAF birds, I had it backwards, my apologies.)
@@hoghogwildHuh? What carrier operations? Canada's Hornets are land based.
@hoghogwild ur reply does not support ur argument
@@CallsignJoNay The OP stated that in the mid 00's that the RCAF CF-18s appeared better maintained than the American aircraft (F/A-18's). I stated that the US Marine Corps' and US Navy's F/A-18s will appear much different due to their Carrier ops. US Hornets had much different lives than the Canadian Hornets.
EDIT: oops, I misread the OP statement. He was stating that the US equipment was in better shape than the RCAF stuff, my apologies.
@@unfurling3129 Sure it does, Hornets that live off of aircraft carriers have much different lives than land based ones, RCAF Hornets vs. USMC/USN Hornets.
Always enjoy listening to Billie speak. Always has great insights
*A hockey sock full of money*
If you played hockey you know that hockey socks are open at the top of course, but also open at the bottom too. So it's really a tube!
Keep putting money in the top and it falls out the bottom. A bottomless hole is how I interpret the old saying.
Cheers from Canada 🇨🇦
I did not know that (never played hockey!)
Good Morning, Spotted the * FAVOR * comment this morning and checked it out. Up to this point I haven't been much into Podcast, but as it turns out I was in the " Love It " category. I Thoroughly enjoyed the topic and found the whole conversation very enlightening. I will have to go back and check out some of the past shows. Congratulations on making your goal of 20 Podcast this year and keep up the great work.
Thanks for listening!!
I'm a Canadian Army Veteran and so embarrassed how our Gouv. is acting toward the CF, Old planes, lack of replacement parts, Not contributing it's 2% GP to NATO. TIME for someone to take charge of our Country.
Multiple governments....both Liberal AND Conservative have put us in this position. People have taken charge of this country for decades and never really invested in the CAF. You think someone like Poilievre is going to change that? He won't.......he'll say he will just to get your vote....but in the end, he won't do a thing.
@@yxeaviationphotogit is up to the voting pubic to tell government to cut the pie up more equitably to allow the military to have what it needs to have.
Awesome show, and thank you for inviting Billy to speak about the Royal Canadian Air Force. I subscribed to your channel instantly and will be following up with your work. Cheers.
Thanks! Don't forget to check out the newsletter in the show notes. It's loaded with knowledge bombs!
@TheMergeMedia my pleasure! I will certainly do that. Thank you very much, and Happy New Year in advance.
Great conversation; and although I was aware of much of the general content as an ex RCAF pilot, Billie shed a ton of insight and new info I was wholly unaware of. Nice to see the content on this particular channel. Go figure, it takes an American channel for a Canadian to see this topic covered in such a comprehensive way.
Glad you enjoyed it!
This was so well done. It makes a huge difference when the interviewer does their homework, asks great questions and is respectful to the guest.
❤ most people don't understand the prep required -- its how we role when we invite people on the show to discuss important topics.
great to hear an honest assessment of the state of strategic thinking ( or more accurately, the complete and total lack of strategic thinking ) on the part of all of the political parties in Canada over the last 50 years - way to go Billie.
Great episode, Mike. The guest's accent fascinates me.
Great interview!!! I am glad he gave voice to where many cannot given the absolute failures the RCAF was subjected too. In Canada, our sovereignty and security has always taken a back to seat to spineless politicians and regional greed.
Why did Canada but the C295 vs C27.....because the engines made in Quebec
Bravo Paco you have a new fan and follower.
Billie Flynn you need to be made Prime Minister. Sadly our rotting carcass of government maintains the status quo and nothing will change until 3 different countries start challenging our Northern sovereignty. . and then it'll be 30 years too late. And we will lose resource rich land. It's not if, it's when.
Canada should be one of the richest countries in the world for our human resources alone.
As bad as the RCAF is, our RCN has been gutted same and poached for trained officers by Australia.
We should have a mandatory 2 year draft, to strengthen our Northern sovereignty and rebuild the forces.
Pound for pound our military men and women are asked to do more with less and older equipment.
Politicians should be mandated to serve in the Forces BEFORE any political office. Simple.
Our countrys will doesnt have the stones to do any of this.
keep up the good work
PAKO very interesting stuff. Really like your channel. You, Mooch, Justin, fighter pilot podcast, all great information. Thanks 👍😁
In Canada, we spend more tax dollars Cancelling Defence Procurement Contracts, than we actually spend on Defence Procurement. in the 1960's We had a Defence Crisis.. now it's just politics as usual. procurement is nothing but a political game.
Awesome show, very interesting
Glad you enjoyed it
Billie being a fixed wing guy, you didn't even get to touch on the TWO chopper fiascos; that cluster fornication would need its own Netflix miniseries. I single movie wouldn't do it justice. Pentagon Wars has nothing on that procurement disaster.
My Australian son just returned from 5 years in Canada and he said their defence force is pathetic. But its always been that way. They don't see any threats and assume the USA will do the heavy lifting if they are in trouble. He was in the Navy here for ten years and said Canada pay peanuts to the military. Its at least half what Australia pays. When he left the RAN as a bosun he was on $95k pa. They pay for experience not so much by rank. A sergeant in the Australian army with ten years service would earn $110k pa. And each time to sign on for another 7 years, you get $10k cash, tax free. When he told his Canadian mates some of whom are in the Army, they didn't believe him so he showed them on the recruitment website. But there's a caveat. You have to graduate from high school with an 80% grade point average to enlist at the private level. There a queue a mile long.
The bottom line is that there is far too much bureaucracy in the Canadian government when it comes to military procurement. More or less there's too many foxes in the hen house and no one is accountable due to the lack of leadership. There are to many layers of government duplication and excessive overlap between the roles of the Minister of National Defence, Minister of Public Services and Procurement Canada. Until one person is in charge of the three branches of government and is accountable for the final decision, the future, unfortunately will be the same dog and pony show when it comes to procuring military equipment for our militray serving members.
Some really great insight.
This is one of the effects of everyone assuming America can and will do everything for everyone else in terms of defense.
Even in US we are having extreme problems within the USAF.
Like what? @@thefew.theproud.19Kilo
Yeah, look at what the US is doing for Ukraine. So ya know the US would bend over backwards to assist it's great neighbor and friend.
@@noahway13😂
@@noahway13We’re spending basically zero dollars in Ukraine. 80% of what we’ve given them are arms that were already being scrapped (at great expense), retired or soon to be retired. It was also paid for 40 years ago. So, besides a very few limited areas, we’re not actually having to spend money on the military aid. Moreover, because our stuff is performing so well, like the M270 / HIMARS, which was introduced in the ‘80s and PATRIOT, we’re getting a massive amount of new orders. So, more American jobs and income and tax revenue. And Russian arms sales have tanked. Worth every penny. And pennies is what it’s cost. Less than 1% of our annual defense budget.
I enjoyed your program. I am a Canadian veteran and what you mentioned is what I have lived for years.....
Namaste Merge,
Then we come to mistakes over the retirement of RAF ISR, AEW and MR manned platforms, first was the Fleet of Nimrods MR'2's and Nimrod R.1's, years without replacement so relaying on Nato Allies to cover the capability gaps for the UK.
Until the UK MoD finally ordered very few or would buying only 9 RAF Boeing's Poseidon MRA1 (P-8A) multi-role maritime patrol aircraft version, when at the high point of Nimrod MR.2's service, the RAF had no fewer than 35 Nimrod MR.2's flying!
As a the UK is a Maritime nation with naval commitments, across the world’s oceans and seas, just 9 Poseidon MRA1 is too little too late, there is a need for at least 9 more MRA.1's for the RAF too?
Though the other question is why did the MoD not buying signals intelligence (SIGINT) and electronic intelligence gathering (ELINT) reconnaissance aircraft version of the Poseidon P-8A, Boeing was offering as a replacement for Nimrod R.1’s SIGINT & ELINT aircraft too?
Instead the MoD and the Conservatives replacing the old Nimrod R.1's with even older Boeing and Ex-USAF RC-135 Rivet Joint aircraft. Under the MoD project codenamed Airseeker, just another short sighted mistake too, with these RC-135 Rivet Joint aircraft will needing replacement by 2030's anyway too so this was a false financial saving as well!
Then there is the retirement of the RAF Fleet of 7 Boeing E-3D Sentry AEW1's, airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) aircraft developed by Boeing and commonly known as AWACS (Airborne Warning and Control System), is another example of the MoD and UK Governments short slightness too.
Which are to be replaced by lower number again of just maybe 5 Boeing 737 AEW&C E-7 Wedgetail's, twin-engine airborne early warning and control aircraft based on the Boeing 737 Next Generation design.
With the UK MoD agreeing to purchase just five E-7 Wedgetails in late 2015 onwards, with these aircraft to be designated as "Wedgetail AEW.1’s", now this maybe reduce to just three or only four Wedgetail AEW.1’s?
Once again with the world's international crisis, with the illegal Russian war on Ukraine, also the new Israel / Hamas conflict too. Which the Iranian Islamic Regime Ledership, are trying to ignite the whole of the Middle East over it seems too!
Along with Iranian Government causing or support Islamic Terrorist Groups, causing troubles in Lebanon, Syria, Iraq and in both the Persian Gulf and Red Sea, let alone in the Indian Ocean it seems too.
Then ongoing threats of aggression from North Korea towards South Korea, Japan and the USA in the Far East too. Equally with growing issues with China in the South China Sea and disputed man made Chinese islands, or over Taiwan and in the Pacific Ocean too,
Now we have more troubles brewing, over the new Far Right Regime elected in Argentina, with once again making noise or making remarks or open threats being made over the Falklands Islands again as well.
The RAF needs both more MRA.1s and more Wedgetail AEW1's too, at least 7 to 9 Wedgetail's and at least 15 to 17 MRA.1's, to cover the RAF and Royal Navy commitments on the international stage.
Along with at least 3 to 7 new ISR platforms, especially to replace the three very old RC-135 Rivet Joint aircraft to start with.
Though there is the question of a replacement aircraft, which should have been purchased for the early retired of the RAF 5 Raytheon Sentinel R.1 airborne battlefield and ground surveillance aircraft.
Which was based on the Bombardier Global Express ultra long-range business jet, with the prime contractor for the Sentinel being the Raytheon, which supplied most of the mission systems and performed the integration work etc.
The fact and loss of these 5 Sentinel R.1 airborne battlefield and ground surveillance aircraft, is a major defence capability failing again, also not to just UK Forces but to Nato Allies too.
These five Sentinel R.1’s were over worked, while totally underfunded and under resourced too. With promises after promises of Upgrades and Improvement programmes for these 5 Sentinel R.1’s, were made by the MoD and UK Defence Ministers under the Conservative Government, all came to nothing though!
Then in 2020 / 2021 MoD said, the long-term retention of the 5 Sentinel R.1’s aircraft, would have necessitated significant expenditure to modernise aging systems, which strengthened the decision to withdraw the entire Sentinel fleet during March 2021.
With instead that new aircraft, such as the Poseidon MRA1 maritime patrol aircraft and the forthcoming Protector UAV drones, could take over from the 5 Sentinel R.1’s and will carry out the surveillance duties formerly performed by the type.
These 5 Sentinel R.1’s airframes, only flew approximately 32,300 hours roughly distributed across 4,870 sorties, there was years of Air Time left in these aircraft!
Following the 5 Sentinel R.1’s withdrawal from RAF service, the aircraft were sold to a US consortium of Springfield Air, Raytheon US, and Bombardier, in a so called unairworthy condition, at a financial loss to the British Tax Payers once again too!
The problem is the RAF has not got enough Poseidon MRA1 maritime patrol aircraft and the Protector UAV ISR drones, to perform their own duties let alone take over duties of the lost of these 5 Sentinel R.1 airborne battlefield and ground surveillance aircraft too?
The UK government announced that a contract for the Sentinel R.1’s to receive a maritime-capable software upgrade was to be placed in the spring of 2015.
However, due to a combination of its operational commitments and constrained budgets, neither the Sentinel or its missions systems received any upgrades for an extended period.
Which led to some of its onboard systems becoming increasingly obsolescent by the end of the decade leading to their retirement again due to bad management by the MoD and UK Government basically.
Without looking and listing errors, failures and mistakes, the MoD and the UK Government has made over or with RAF, FAA and AAC Apache, Chinook, Griffon, Lynx, Merlin, Puma, Sea King and Wildcat helicopter programmes, in the last 13 years too.
I will agree with you on most except the retirement of the Nimrods. The Nimrods used an airframe that was difficult to upgrade further given how they were built and used engines that were no longer in production and no one used any more. Switching to the RC-135 and E-3 was better since there is large pool of spares and the engines are available.
"A camel is a horse designed by a committee" is an analogy of how this program and pretty much everything relating to procurement throughout the Canadian military establishment has been over the past 20 years from tanks to fighter planes to submarines and everything in between.
An eye-opening topic! Thank you for connecting us with this overarching view behind the curtain of the Canadian fighter force these recent years. Very educational and informative.
I made an exchange visit to an RCAF MPA base in Nova Scotia back in 1970 to show off our brand new P3C aircraft. The RCAF was planning to retire their Argus a/c . I was a P3 RAg instructor at the time. I was very impressed with the professionalism of the RCAF MPA folks I met. My enduring memory is the hangar was so spotless you could eat on it😅. They bought the P3 a no brainer😂 😂😂😂
Just like here in the U.S., most of the "hosers" are in government. I sure enjoyed the few times I went TDY to the great white north! Maple Flag at Cold Lake when I was active duty USAF, then to Baggotville working with the CF-18s, getting them warmed up for a Tyndall missile shoot, if I recall correctly. (doubtful) Also got a CF-18B backseat ride while there. Pretty neat doing a Cuban-8 without needing afterburner!! Also had a few airshow trips, Montreal and Shearwater, where my frontseater (an ex-Marine) must have impressed the crowd by over-g'ing our jet. I was unimpressed with him, but I WAS impressed with the hospitality of the Canadian hosts during our stays. I should consider myself part Japanese since I was born there, but I feel more like a quasi-Canadian since I spent more time there.
Amazing Episode ! …. And as a Canadian Veteran Mr. Flynn’s assessment was spot on, I will listen to your other Pod casts for sure ….. well done 😊
The original Herc, The maritime patrol aircraft, the Sea King, the Star Fighter,(that the CF18 replaced in the 80s) amongst others. Canada definitely has had a problem with military procurement since its conception. Canada has always neglected its defence, and doesn’t deserve its servicemen and veterans sacrifices.
Great show! I left Canada because my country deserted me and has forgotten the sacrifices and lives of my squadron mates. 😢
Ive been worried about RCAF for quite a long time, but this one really helps me to pull it all together in my mind. Thanks+
After the CIAS in Toronto this year, we watched them repairing the CF-18 that flew there. They were repairing the wing box area of the plane. The plane was noticeably NOT performing the same high G maneuvers they used to and they still had to repair it anyway. I've also noticed that the planes are a bo-show a lot more often due to "technical issues" lately. Sad state of affairs for our pilots since I'm assuming this is the norm lately and not just isolated issues with show planes.
Great show!
Great podcast, thanks! We need to know this ...
Excellent episode. If it had been possible to keep the "politics" out of it the RCAF should have gotten in on the Eurofighter program in the 90s and could have had Typhoons - which totally fit Canada's requirements - as a long term platform to base 5/6 Gen future needs from rather than legacy Hornets.
Great point!
So what was Canada going to fly between the 1950s era CF-101 / CF-104 / CF-5 and the late to develop Typhoon?
Like Australia, Canada should have got on the Super Hornet / Growler train to supplement the Classic Hornets once it was clear the F-35 was falling behind. Then as things degraded for the overall fighter force, Canada could have dipped its toe in on the F-35 with a late block (LRIP 12-14) F-35B buy of say 24 for northern remote ops like the USMC expeditionary plans, while it waited for the Block 4. But that would require the country to be serious about defence.
@@djsmith2871 I said 1990 for involvement/intention to purchase. It had the Hornet from the mid 80's, it could have had the Typhoon - a proper Air Superiority/Long Range interceptor from 2004. With the Likes of Meteor capability coming on stream it would have a platform that would meet pretty much all it's needs until almost 2040. At which point something (anything!) Better than F35 may well be available to them. Considering Canadian defence budgets they may well be saddled with F35 beyond 2050.....if it can even still fly by that point.
An interesting concept that I'll have to think through.
Would have liked to see Canada get in on the electronic attack aspect of 4th Gen / 5th Gen mix with the Growler, but at this point Canada can't even generate a Hornet flight for a Remembrance Day flypast, so that may be stretching fantasy beyond the realm.
Typhoon would have kept things to a single platform with a single seat, which is all Canada seems to be willing or able to support now.
@@djsmith2871 I've always said that Canada needs a two fighter air force. Canada in my strongest opinion should have opted into the Grumman F-14 program when it was around and bought those. The range, speed and long legs fits a perfect profile for defending Canadian airspace while having a lighter weight less expensive fighter to fill the gap where the F-14 would lack. But then again that's just me.
Very good! Let's tickle RUclips algorithm.
Canadá should have purchased F-14D’s instead of the Hornets… LoL
Regarding the P 8 and Boeing, one factor you seem to overlooked is that the Canadian government despises Boeing.
This is a result of Boeing seeking to stop export to the US of a small DC 9 replacement developed by Canadair. Eventually the aircraft was given away to Airbus for $1.00. Eventually the Boeing action was overturned but too late for Canadair.
Great insight into our Defence