Having owned a Rivian since early 2022, I can confirm that this happens constantly. ALL. THE. TIME. Even on highways that are not under construction. Even on OLD highways such as the PA Turnpike. The worst part is that it not consistant, and it's frustrating as hell. Hands on should be available everywhere. Hands free (when it arrives for Gen 2) should be hands free.
Unfortunately Jordan essentially ended the test when he failed to take over when prompted going into first construction zone. Results were skewed due to being in "jail" for 1/3 of the test. Hands off driving being disabled in construction is a positive in my opinion. It is currently not safe for road crews or driver's. All that said Rivian ADAS system needs a LOT of work.
It's funny how our standards change so quickly. 6 months ago, FSD would not be "enough" for Jess' mom. But our expectations only ever get higher (and we wonder why cars are more expensive now lol). Which is also why I'm surprised to hear her judge everyone else so harshly. Tesla benefits from massive AI investments that no one else can hope to match and it's taken them this many years to get to this point VERY recently. Obviously good on tesla, but that's not something you replicate overnight. Hence why I think we may be moving toward a situation similar to Huawei in China - 3rd party provider that can be licensed and put into many manufacturers' cars. Maybe not as good as bespoke integration, but good enough to meet level 3 expectations. Kinda like how Ionna is the only way manufacturers are going to be able to challenge the super charger network in the US. We'll see. But I was interested in FSD even before the end to end AI and it's hard to deny how quickly it's become extremely capable. Exciting times for sure.
Jordan did get locked out of Driver+ (autopilot jail scenario) when he didn't take control until that big red error message appeared near construction zone.
I think we have all learned something important in the last few videos. When Jess starts speaking, shut up and listen. She seems to only speak when she has something valuable to say.
This was a fun video, but please stay to the car as it is delivered today, the same way that Kyle does. If you start incorporating responses from Rivian, and their future timelines, thats not about the car that is shipping today. It technically is just as much a promise as Tesla claiming they will have fully autonomous this year.
I was about to make a comment about that. I have the comma3 (frogpilot) on my 2018 Prius work car and though it’s hardware limited on steering torque I can actually trust it. Even on gravel roads. I also spent a year with a 2024 Prius (traded it for the Tesla) and it’s lane trace system worked on all decently marked roads. Much better from what I could see in this test than the Rivian system.
At least classic adaptive cruise control works, I'll live. Great test and video! Maybe active construction messes with pre-mapped. Does it freak out on the GM/Ford systems?
Some pre-mapped areas are very bad. I would love to see a highlight on the nav on sections of road that are pre-mapped. It would help me to decide to either not bother engaging the system or when to expect the system will shut off. Some sections of highway are flawless, others will disengage over and over. For those sections, I’d rather not bother.
No but it does make it possible without that hardware you end up with Rivian Driver+ which can’t even lane change because they didn’t put fast enough compute in it.
@ Tesla has been working at it for about 4x longer than Rivian has too. Software makes the difference and you don’t just have that. It takes years. Tesla has also said a new HW revision with more power is coming because they’re running into FSD limits, Rivian chose chose to spring for the best hardware they could now so they wouldn’t have to change it 3 years again.
@@jacobB1290H Lol no. Tesla is severally limited by hardware and is now behind Chinese companies on FSD. Rivian proactively provides the needed hardware and will begin prioritizing FSD this year. Your comment is just sad and petty.
I'm a Model Y owner with FSD. Looking at Rivian R1S, need more space for longer and larger car camping adventures. Really, really do not look forward to downgrading from FSD. I hope Rivian can license FSD from Tesla sometime soon, or at the very least Autopilot...
Does the truck have to actively download/stream the pre mapped location information? It feels like it could be losing cellular connection, or losing GPS reception in the mountains. That's my hunch as to why there isn't much of a warning. It probably doesn't have more than a 3-5 second buffer of road information.
You at least brought up the cellular at the final thoughts of the video. That's still absolutely what it feels like. Maybe it has a signal but "no data". There are plenty of times I reset the vehicle hotspot in the ranger because it says it's connected but the kids RUclips runs out of bandwidth.
I think you need to rethink how premapped is scored. Being unavailable for a large amount of the drive should either be DNF of negative points proportional to the time. Seems unfair vs cars without premapped to only penalise this with a -5 when it seems like you had to do a third of the driving?
I personally don’t think every car needs to have tesla level of adas. Not everybody wants that - i think most people just want something decent. I’d be interested to seeing the metrics in Tesla on how many % of hours driven is on adas vs manual. Im gonna guess its less than 50%
I think all of it has to do with the pre mapped nonsense. With all the problems the manufacturers have with that, I don't want any car with it. My Volvo's pro pilot assist does everything it needs to without the need for pre mapping. I really don't see the point of pre mapping being a thing.
Totally agree with you Jordan and no, it’s ok, but not pretty good. I love our gen 1 R1S but the Driver+ just sucks. Luckily, my wife drives it and I do for local driving and when we go on family trips, I can live with it. Rivian can copy Tesla’s basic autopilot system and I don’t understand why they keep sticking with this mapped BS. My gosh, I rented a Subaru and it had a better ADAS than Rivian. My daily driver is a 2023 Model Y and it’s great for the ADAS aka autopilot.
Automatic lane changing in my Ioniq6 is so slow as to be useless. Otherwise, good ADAS in the Ioniq6 except naggy about putting hands on steering wheel.
I have a Tesla M3 2023, no FSD. The auto lane centering works flawless! I can use it in construction zones and have no fears that it will fail!! Plus it works on almost every marked road! Also i have a reservation in on an R2! If the lane centering software isn’t available on marked roads i might have to reconsider the R2. Great video keep up the good work!
I myself really like that train feeling. I want the car to go one speed and not slow down and stay in the middle of the lane and be flawless. I do not like speeding up, slowing down and stupid human behavior.
Driver+ is disappointing and inconsistent. The lack of expanding premap areas is lame. I’ve had it in driver+ on fail on crossing a bridge then become available again after off the bridge. Phantom braking is still happening. Flat straight interstates is only place that it passes, but so does everything else. C-
Sorry but at this point it’s Tesla. FSD is life changing for me and will be for my wife. Also a non Tesla on a non Tesla charging infrastructure can only be described as traumatic for someone that is not familiar with the subject matter. To your credit and others watching the charging videos educated me greatly but you should not need education to be able to go on a 500 mile trip
Rivian fell into the same trap as Tesla early on, promising that the cars will have autonomous capability that they don't have still. I think for Gen 1 cars, they owe it to customers to back-port as many RAP updates as possible. I think many Gen 1 owners have a sour taste in their mouths still and would appreciate Rivian talking about their plans for Gen 1 owners a bit more, even if the timelines are undefined. At this point, they don't have to worry so much about Gen 1 cars eating into Gen 2 sales since they are pretty much sold out of Gen 1 cars. I think at a minimum, unmapped autopilot on all roads is mandatory for any modern car, and it does put a stain on Rivian's prestige to have such lacking autonomy capabilities on Gen 1 and 2. Gen 2 still is primarily MobileEye like Gen 1, hence the mapping requirement. I think MobileEye probably is the one responsible for providing mapping for customers (like Rivian and Lucid). I'm not sure if hands-free drivers assistance for Gen 2 is still a MobileEye feature, or if Rivian will get there with an in-house replacement for the current MobileEye software stack. Hopefully once they get it going on Gen 2, Gen 1 cars can get it backported.
Tesla's doing FSD with AI reasoning. And Tesla just built the largest AI data processing center in the world. No one else is really close. They really can't copy Tesla. They don't have the AI and the billions of miles of data, which is growing fast.
Why can't you add a weight to the steering wheel to avoid touching the wheel? I use an 18 ounce stuffed toy in my Tesla X and it hardly ever nagging to touch the yoke
why are you dancing around this issue....the system WOULDNT turn on on large sections on the road...that IS UNACCEPTABLE, END OF STORY !! it doesn't matter what your personal opinion of the CAR is, you are testing THE SYSTEM, this video is NOT about the car!
We can see what happened when it was enabled in that construction zone... it crossed lines and got far too close to a concrete wall. It is better to shut off than provide a false sense of confidence. It's not a failure, but it is a major limitation and annoyance. It should probably get more demerit points for how much it didn't automate.
ADAS was disabled due to failure to take over when prompted entering construction. It is not safe for any current ADAS system to be engaged in construction zone. Test results were due to flawed test procedure.
GreT video again. Love Jess. I love the fact that she asks questions which Jordan answers. Greatest Out Of Spec team so far.
Fun to cruise and chill with friend, Jess.
Having owned a Rivian since early 2022, I can confirm that this happens constantly. ALL. THE. TIME. Even on highways that are not under construction. Even on OLD highways such as the PA Turnpike. The worst part is that it not consistant, and it's frustrating as hell.
Hands on should be available everywhere.
Hands free (when it arrives for Gen 2) should be hands free.
Unfortunately Jordan essentially ended the test when he failed to take over when prompted going into first construction zone. Results were skewed due to being in "jail" for 1/3 of the test. Hands off driving being disabled in construction is a positive in my opinion. It is currently not safe for road crews or driver's.
All that said Rivian ADAS system needs a LOT of work.
Hello Jordan. And welcome back Jess! AKA co-pilot😊
Hogback challenge vids are my favorite OOS vids!
Love the copilot and the honest reactions! And the occasional look of terror 😂
It's funny how our standards change so quickly. 6 months ago, FSD would not be "enough" for Jess' mom. But our expectations only ever get higher (and we wonder why cars are more expensive now lol).
Which is also why I'm surprised to hear her judge everyone else so harshly. Tesla benefits from massive AI investments that no one else can hope to match and it's taken them this many years to get to this point VERY recently. Obviously good on tesla, but that's not something you replicate overnight. Hence why I think we may be moving toward a situation similar to Huawei in China - 3rd party provider that can be licensed and put into many manufacturers' cars. Maybe not as good as bespoke integration, but good enough to meet level 3 expectations. Kinda like how Ionna is the only way manufacturers are going to be able to challenge the super charger network in the US.
We'll see. But I was interested in FSD even before the end to end AI and it's hard to deny how quickly it's become extremely capable. Exciting times for sure.
Jordan did get locked out of Driver+ (autopilot jail scenario) when he didn't take control until that big red error message appeared near construction zone.
Totally agree…it said take over, and he didn’t so you have to end the drive to get driver+ back.
I think we have all learned something important in the last few videos. When Jess starts speaking, shut up and listen. She seems to only speak when she has something valuable to say.
This was a fun video, but please stay to the car as it is delivered today, the same way that Kyle does. If you start incorporating responses from Rivian, and their future timelines, thats not about the car that is shipping today. It technically is just as much a promise as Tesla claiming they will have fully autonomous this year.
Correct. I just want to throw in the current autonomous vehicles from Tesla wait on the regulators acceptance. How far ist Rivian?
Jess is a great addition to these videos!
Great info here. Thank you!
great job Jordan! :)
When the openpilot port is done, and you can run this truck on this test with sunnypilot, you’re going to be so happy.
I was about to make a comment about that. I have the comma3 (frogpilot) on my 2018 Prius work car and though it’s hardware limited on steering torque I can actually trust it. Even on gravel roads. I also spent a year with a 2024 Prius (traded it for the Tesla) and it’s lane trace system worked on all decently marked roads. Much better from what I could see in this test than the Rivian system.
I might have missed it, but please always tell us which software version you're testing. Thanks!
Looks like it was in the video near the beginning. Just don’t think he said it out loud. It is on the prior version before 2024.51 came out.
7:11
Version 2024.47.30
Thanks for the location point out, I rode through there back in September and encountered Deja Vu 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I think you need to add a category for 'miles driven with ADAS unavailable', and the higher the number, the worse the score.
At least classic adaptive cruise control works, I'll live. Great test and video! Maybe active construction messes with pre-mapped. Does it freak out on the GM/Ford systems?
My husband wears golf gloves while driving his gen1 R1T always. No worries for screen touching or steering wheel nagging.
Gen 1 Driver+ sucks in tight curves but is pretty decent on long straight and gentle curves.
Some pre-mapped areas are very bad. I would love to see a highlight on the nav on sections of road that are pre-mapped. It would help me to decide to either not bother engaging the system or when to expect the system will shut off. Some sections of highway are flawless, others will disengage over and over. For those sections, I’d rather not bother.
I hate that it slows for corners. Make it an option that can be turned off or at least parameterize.
This is proof that loading up the car with tons of expensive sensors and the most powerful and a expensive computer isn’t what makes ADAS great
No but it does make it possible without that hardware you end up with Rivian Driver+ which can’t even lane change because they didn’t put fast enough compute in it.
@ well with a Tesla you have a fraction of the hardware and a less power computer and its many times more capable
@ Tesla has been working at it for about 4x longer than Rivian has too. Software makes the difference and you don’t just have that. It takes years. Tesla has also said a new HW revision with more power is coming because they’re running into FSD limits, Rivian chose chose to spring for the best hardware they could now so they wouldn’t have to change it 3 years again.
@@jacobB1290H Lol no. Tesla is severally limited by hardware and is now behind Chinese companies on FSD. Rivian proactively provides the needed hardware and will begin prioritizing FSD this year. Your comment is just sad and petty.
@@taymonificationthis is pure delusion
I think a vehicle should fail 100% if it turns off due to mapping.
I'm a Model Y owner with FSD. Looking at Rivian R1S, need more space for longer and larger car camping adventures. Really, really do not look forward to downgrading from FSD. I hope Rivian can license FSD from Tesla sometime soon, or at the very least Autopilot...
Does the truck have to actively download/stream the pre mapped location information? It feels like it could be losing cellular connection, or losing GPS reception in the mountains. That's my hunch as to why there isn't much of a warning. It probably doesn't have more than a 3-5 second buffer of road information.
You at least brought up the cellular at the final thoughts of the video. That's still absolutely what it feels like. Maybe it has a signal but "no data". There are plenty of times I reset the vehicle hotspot in the ranger because it says it's connected but the kids RUclips runs out of bandwidth.
I think you need to rethink how premapped is scored. Being unavailable for a large amount of the drive should either be DNF of negative points proportional to the time. Seems unfair vs cars without premapped to only penalise this with a -5 when it seems like you had to do a third of the driving?
I personally don’t think every car needs to have tesla level of adas. Not everybody wants that - i think most people just want something decent. I’d be interested to seeing the metrics in Tesla on how many % of hours driven is on adas vs manual. Im gonna guess its less than 50%
My FSD usage (v13.2.2) is over 95%. I always use it, except parking lots basically.
I think all of it has to do with the pre mapped nonsense. With all the problems the manufacturers have with that, I don't want any car with it. My Volvo's pro pilot assist does everything it needs to without the need for pre mapping. I really don't see the point of pre mapping being a thing.
Cute little snake plant, Jorden
Totally agree with you Jordan and no, it’s ok, but not pretty good. I love our gen 1 R1S but the Driver+ just sucks. Luckily, my wife drives it and I do for local driving and when we go on family trips, I can live with it. Rivian can copy Tesla’s basic autopilot system and I don’t understand why they keep sticking with this mapped BS. My gosh, I rented a Subaru and it had a better ADAS than Rivian. My daily driver is a 2023 Model Y and it’s great for the ADAS aka autopilot.
Automatic lane changing in my Ioniq6 is so slow as to be useless. Otherwise, good ADAS in the Ioniq6 except naggy about putting hands on steering wheel.
I have a Tesla M3 2023, no FSD. The auto lane centering works flawless! I can use it in construction zones and have no fears that it will fail!! Plus it works on almost every marked road! Also i have a reservation in on an R2! If the lane centering software isn’t available on marked roads i might have to reconsider the R2.
Great video keep up the good work!
“If you’re buying a car for ADAS…” you should be buying anything that is compatible with Comma 3X and openpilot.
I myself really like that train feeling. I want the car to go one speed and not slow down and stay in the middle of the lane and be flawless. I do not like speeding up, slowing down and stupid human behavior.
Wow. You guys gave no idea about the gulf between FSD and other ADAS systems. Its like comparing ChatGPT with Alexa.
Driver+ is disappointing and inconsistent. The lack of expanding premap areas is lame. I’ve had it in driver+ on fail on crossing a bridge then become available again after off the bridge. Phantom braking is still happening. Flat straight interstates is only place that it passes, but so does everything else. C-
Rivian errors on the side of caution and safety. Other companies go the other way.
Sorry but at this point it’s Tesla. FSD is life changing for me and will be for my wife. Also a non Tesla on a non Tesla charging infrastructure can only be described as traumatic for someone that is not familiar with the subject matter. To your credit and others watching the charging videos educated me greatly but you should not need education to be able to go on a 500 mile trip
Rivian 2025 ADAS is comparable to Tesla 2018 EAP
Rivian fell into the same trap as Tesla early on, promising that the cars will have autonomous capability that they don't have still. I think for Gen 1 cars, they owe it to customers to back-port as many RAP updates as possible. I think many Gen 1 owners have a sour taste in their mouths still and would appreciate Rivian talking about their plans for Gen 1 owners a bit more, even if the timelines are undefined. At this point, they don't have to worry so much about Gen 1 cars eating into Gen 2 sales since they are pretty much sold out of Gen 1 cars.
I think at a minimum, unmapped autopilot on all roads is mandatory for any modern car, and it does put a stain on Rivian's prestige to have such lacking autonomy capabilities on Gen 1 and 2.
Gen 2 still is primarily MobileEye like Gen 1, hence the mapping requirement. I think MobileEye probably is the one responsible for providing mapping for customers (like Rivian and Lucid). I'm not sure if hands-free drivers assistance for Gen 2 is still a MobileEye feature, or if Rivian will get there with an in-house replacement for the current MobileEye software stack. Hopefully once they get it going on Gen 2, Gen 1 cars can get it backported.
FSD IS NOT DRIVERS ASSISTANT, FSD ID THE DRIVER
Tesla's doing FSD with AI reasoning. And Tesla just built the largest AI data processing center in the world. No one else is really close. They really can't copy Tesla. They don't have the AI and the billions of miles of data, which is growing fast.
Everyone kept laughing at Tesla …. O how the tables have turned
First :)
Why can't you add a weight to the steering wheel to avoid touching the wheel?
I use an 18 ounce stuffed toy in my Tesla X and it hardly ever nagging to touch the yoke
Because its Illegal
why are you dancing around this issue....the system WOULDNT turn on on large sections on the road...that IS UNACCEPTABLE, END OF STORY !!
it doesn't matter what your personal opinion of the CAR is, you are testing THE SYSTEM, this video is NOT about the car!
We can see what happened when it was enabled in that construction zone... it crossed lines and got far too close to a concrete wall. It is better to shut off than provide a false sense of confidence. It's not a failure, but it is a major limitation and annoyance. It should probably get more demerit points for how much it didn't automate.
ADAS was disabled due to failure to take over when prompted entering construction.
It is not safe for any current ADAS system to be engaged in construction zone. Test results were due to flawed test procedure.