When I first got into Kill Team, the primary reason I ended up buying more teams was because I was able to read the rules of those teams on a certain website and thought they were cool. GW profited from the rules being free and available online. It's a no-brainer. Also, being able to check the rules of teams you don't play so you at least have an idea of what to expect against other teams it just a good thing.
@@enricosynx5951 You guess correctly, because there is no GW site containing the rules. Team rules are currently scattered across many different books that (for obvious reasons) receive no rules updates. Making the core rules and team rules free is a great and long overdue choice by GW
I still think Flamer needs something other than damage to compete in the Special Weapon slot of most teams. You can buff its damage potential so it can outperform the melta/plasma but then you just replace one best-in-slot option with another. I'd rather just add Stun to the current Flamer so it trades damage for utility, that way you have some actual variety in that slot.
@@CanYouRollaCrit Sure, any number of things. Flamers are ok, they just cannot compete with the other options they are mutually exclusive with. Flamers on Traitor Marines, Novitiates and Warpcoven all do just fine imo
I agree completely. IMO Both grenades and flamers should be a bit less raw damage, and a bit more area control. Either by applying stun, or bloodying characters with any number of wounds. Maybe introduce a prone condition that grenades force, or players can choose to react with if they haven't activated yet. Maybe flamers force a target to fall back if you cause X wounds to them in a volley. Maybe Flamers can create a burning AoE zone for a turn that burns anyone who passes through it. There are so many ways to make weapons more interesting ESPECIALLY in a game with such tight terrain. Id love to see more AoE effects and less +1 -1 hit/damage tinkering for every single weapon.
PARIAHS. Szeras has invented Pariahs, "newborn" Necrons with mysterious origins and their own agency, who project the same mind-draining field as the Pariah Nexus. He's sent them out as Kill Teams to hunt down fresh test subjects and secure valuable materials. Done.
I think they need to prevent re-rolls from negating Overcharge damage. Kinda how they did it in 40k, where Hazardous isn't tied to the hit roll but rather is a separate roll after you shoot.
I always thought the MW should happen before rerolls, but 40K style roll would be much better. One test per weapon. Also make it 4MW so a standard human is automatically injured.
@@samjsnz I don't think 1 roll per weapon is good for KT. It's too "all or nothing". It's better to roll multiple and take damage for each fail. Having more granularity in such things is better. It's same as with attacks, 40k achieves it with larger number of attacking models, but Kill Team gives each weapon more dice.
@@antongrigoryev6381 it’s better to have 1 roll as it separates it from the hit roll. That way you can’t manipulate it with rerolls or other dice modifications.
@@samjsnz You misunderstood me. Yes, it's gotta be a srparate roll from the hit roll. But it'll be better if this separate roll uses multiple dice rather than one die per weapon like it is in 40k.
I would love Flamers with indirect, but would strongly oppose "no cover". If someone hits you with a flamethrower, I assume it can make a difference if you are directly standing in the Flame or with a metal shild (barracde) between you and the attacker.
The correct solution to all line of sight questions is not basing it on the physical model at all. Make Kill Team a game about bases, predefined terrain values, and concealment states.
Maybe this is the way it's going to be? New datasheets have in the bottom right corner a circle with number 28 for vespid and aquilons and 32 for dakka boy. If new sight/cover mechanics will be related to bases or not, definitely base size is important enough to be included in the new data sheets. Who knows 🤷🏽
@CanYouRollaCrit that would be rad too! Space marines have so many leaders, we xenos players need more! By the way, I love your ideas about the weapons not being the same across the board. Thematically and balance wise it makes sense!
If the app is going to be tracking games, both casual & competitive, I hope the data for it is allowed to be readily available for it to be parsed and analyzed by the public.
I would love if they still encourage the use of colors with the measurement numbers. I still intend to use the movement tools for teaching people how to play and coloring them as they were before because it’s just a nice visual reference so people know which side of the ruler you are asking them to use
@@CanYouRollaCrit oh yeah that is an excellent point and I realize that I should have been clearer that I meant numbers and colors . Numbers make the most sense.
Full rules for Strike Force Justian would be nice. Losing the compendium's pretty sad now that I can't even be a punching bag by playing Heavy Intercessors. I'm also one who had to learn the hard way that I had to adopt non-reciprocal shooting out of necessity, but I won't miss it at all if they clean up and tighten the obscuring and LoS rules. Sure it's some very optimized use of the rules, but you can't tell me it doesn't sound like bs when you're on the receiving end. Regardless of mental gymnastics to justify it, it needs to go for the sake of curbing NPE.
Funny how you explained how you wanted obscure to work, because I've exclusively played this game as open or narrative types with a couple of friends, and it didn't take a lot of games before we house ruled into basically this and it made the game so much better since then. We didn't actually reduce the amount of attack dice, though, but we increased the BS that was required by 1 for each piece of heavy terrain that was in between the attacker and the attacked. So if you were in a situation where there were two pieces of heavy terrain that was crossing the line of sight, people could still shoot but they were have a reeeeally hard time hitting anything. ...however, I don't think obscuring should work the way it does today while concealed, because that would a) still require us to learn and understand that silly rule, now on top of the difference from being engage b) actually make even less sense thematically, as conceal out in the open is still out in the open... conceal next to terrain makes sense, as you are hiding behind it.
Flamers need to be good! My Sallies need it! (personally, I would love to have Infernus Marine/s or Hellblaster (one) as an option for Intercession) Overall, I agree with your ideas, they're reasonable and pretty good. Maybe even add some Jump Pack infantry... That would be cool.
I might be being a bit of a pedant with this but I think "granularity" doesn't mean similarity/homogeneity across a set of individual pieces of data, I think granularity means *more* detail and specificity between individual pieces of data, thus asking for more granularity across weapons would be asking for each of them to be balanced individually rather than asking all similar weapons to have the same characteristics. Regardless of that, great suggestions! I honestly don't love that the previous editions' KTs are probably going to be abandoned in 3 years time but I am still hoping to have support for my teams for a long while yet to come. Also, perhaps for fly, instead of paying for their vertical movement straight up, they should have climb rules but rounded down instead of rounded up to the next increment of 2"?
I don't know how other people feel but I find it kind of curious that there aren't more legion specific bespoke kill teams. I know space marine spam is a thing but they are GW's biggest earners. I really thought when kill team 2 was rolled out in 2021 that we would eventually see more than just an ultramarines team and night lords . I would absolutely love to be able to play a dark angels one with a plasma boy and one of the forgiven or something like that, or a space wolves hit squad, or blood angels
Sad to see the Talons and Tyranid Teams go, i would use both... Hopefully the Narative Part gives options to fight tough things like a carnifex or dread as opponent sometimes in the future.
Fusilade should be all misses can be rerolled as attacks against a chosen target within range. So anything that doesn't hit the primary target gets to be rolled against the secondary (and so in if there are more targets within range)
@@CanYouRollaCrit maybe you lose the 1's? IDK, seems thematic that you're just hosing down an area that anything that misses what you were "aiming" at has a chance to hit something else there. Maybe the 'misses' hit on +1 BS
My problem with 7" eldar movement , that other eldar teams (Corsair and Mandrakes) can get the 1" extra: Corsairs from strat ploy(and cant shoot or fight) + faction ability for dash. Mandrakes eq for dashing and free dash from strat ploy. Than gw should rebalance that too
My request for new Killteam is an Exodite team and then a wacky team that only makes sense with the smaller unit count. Maybe the imperium discovers a handfull of functional Men of Iron, or maybe like some Zoats.
What you are explaining about grenades could be expandet to weapons in general: put the base hit chance on the operatives and remove them from the weapons (some could have +1 or -1 like Sniper Rifles or Power Fists)
LOS rules have always been an issue in tabletop. Never heard of a good solution. I agree that being able to target the tip of a battle standard, wing or radio antenna is silly. But if you try to introduce “percentage of model” based rules, then you get into the arguments over what constitutes 50%. Using the base for LOS has its own issues. Such as standing behind a piece of cover that’s 1/4” high and claiming full cover because the model’s base can’t be seen. Or the opposite, where 2mm of the base sticks out past the wall and then the whole model is supposedly visible. The only answer is declaring intent when positioning a model, and then having two reasonable people judging the situation. Sadly, you can’t always depend on people being reasonable when a Golden Ticket is on the line.
The base-for-LoS issues are very easy to fix, though. We already have Insignificant cover and Light/Heavy cover, as well as Vantage points. You just need a tag for: a) "Loose" terrain, that provides Cover but doesn't block LoS (most Light stuff, e.g. barricades, windows) b) "Solid" terrain, that provides Cover and blocks LoS (most Heavy stuff, e.g. walls) Then make it so standing on top of a Vantage Point downgrades or lets you ignore nearby terrain for LoS purposes, same as it currently does for Light cover, since you can look "over" it. Done.
@@FlyWire2 Okay, but what does that mean, exactly? If I build a Kroot model crouching to track their prey, does that make me an asshole, because they're now harder to see? If you try to shoot a Space Marine because its bolt rifle is showing from behind a barricade, does that make you an asshole, because shooting a gun isn't going to hurt them? Or should we just remove the ambiguity at the root - in the rules - and let people build and pose the models the way they like?
KT21 LOS is good, i like it, but not newbie-friendly and abusable when you get it. I'd expect some kind of "long range" malus to replace obscurity. (Those 8" mentioned for the vespids maybe?) Since you mentioned Necromunda, it has long range and short range bonus and malus to hit depending on the weapon profile and 0/-1/-2 to hi based on cover % that is arguable. Not suitable for a competitive game.
Yes, a tyranid kill team with Lots of options (like the compendium one), I am a Fan of 10 x genestealer, or 5 x genestealer and 8x hormogant/termagant. Or some New specialists.
I'd love a team that had like leapers and gaunts as your troopers and like Warriors, Revaners and some kind of maybe mini Zoanthrope as your specialist. A Nid team that had unit diversity would be awesome.
You are playtester ;-), but I don't think that torrent is gone. In Vespid article, when they were describing communion points, it was written, that only initial targets of blast and torrent are restricted by Vespid instincts - so there still is some kind of multi-target attack. But maybe better. Or maybe with indirect.
If necrons can get heirotek circle with a character, 5 immortals and some plasmacytes. Tyranids can get a lictor, 3 leapers and some KT exclusive vanguard organism.
I see what you're going for with your idea for grenade changes but I don't feel the narrative/in lore/whatever reason maps on with your mechanical change. For what you're describing imo templates and scatter dice mechanics would fit significantly better, but for better or worse we don't have those. I don't feel like it makes sense for space marine leader to have a more deadly frag grenade than a regular space marine just because he can throw it 3 centimeters closer to the inside of the left arch of a guardsman's foot. But i do agree horde grenades probably ought to be weaker than elite team grenades mechanically for the reasons you mentioned and in lore you can chalk it up to better gear for elites. Other than that the rest all sound like good changes. When we got ITD and the guard action I thought to myself that this is kinda what overwatch attacks should have been
1. Bespoke teams for old compendium teams (Custodes my beloved, please let me use the new Guardian Melta Spear) 2. All LoS base to base, true line of sight is the actual worst to figure out sometimes 3. Less damage overall, I wish the game was more scrappy rather than “the deadliest game of Hide and Seek you’ve ever played”
Hot take, but as a player just getting into KT; who was starting with the Compendium, I would love to see some of those 40k options options re-integrated as Auxiliary fire teams, or 1-off units into existing KT's. You would still need to buy the base kill team, but could then augment it with 1-4 40k models. Examples: Farstalkers getting a Krootox, Pathfinders can take one 3x fireteam of stealthsuits, Gellerpox can take plaguebearers, chaos cult could summon a chaos spawn, and Blooded might have access to flesh hounds. If this happened, I would not only be fine with the compendium going away, but actually excited for the nice influx of added KT variation.
This is unlikely to work, due to the big problem of balancing teams in the kind of case you are talking about. KT is currently the most balanced GW game and let it stay that way
@@Nipponson86 I disagree updating a kill team with 1-2 additional operators over the v3 timeline is too daunting to balance. They might muck it up a bit on the initial offering of an extra operative, but that is what quarterly balance passes help smooth out. It's also why I was careful to suggest only integrating single pre-existing compendium unit to a kill team, and only where appropriate (Farstalkers can take 1 Krootox, Pathfinders can split into a 3x stealth suit fire team + an X man pathfinder fire team, blooded can sub in 2 flesh hounds). I agree we should NOT open the floodgates of 40k, but if you look through the existing Kill Teams and the offerings from the old compendium I think there is room to port (with changes) a highly curated selection of single units into specific teams and balance them. In general I don't believe kill teams should exist like a time capsule to never be expanded upon after released. If you had fun with compendium KT deamons and wanted to field a Plaguebearer in KT v3, I would hate if the only hope for its integration was an entirely new Nurgle deamon KT that might maybe one day offer it, rather than just integrating a single plaguebearer selection into Gellerpox because "that would just be to prohibitive to balance".
I'm pretty sure the objective markers are on two of the token sheets, so 6 total. One of them has 15 of each engage / conceal which probably wouldn't be enough for both teams I think?
I would be surprised if it's 3. The reveal article says two sheets, which looks like only 3 objective markers but there are more than 15 operatives in the two teams so it must be 2 of the same sheets plus one for the other stuff, otherwise you go to play a game with the box and not everyone can be concealed/engaged at the same time. My hopes at least
Free digital rules are cool, also if I remember correctly each box will come with a QR cose that will take you straight to the online rules for that team. Can't wait to cut that of the box, forget it in my pants and put it through the washer ahhhhh. Getting some faction specific movement differences would be great. Just for flavour really. Fully on board for any Torrent change whatsoever, right now its just clunky. Even without spash having torrent be a combination of No cover and Indirect would make a world of difference. Armour of Contempt already sort of exists in 2021 Kill team through the Invulnerable Battle Honour, this simply ignores AP1 special rule, which would be cool to have on some elite teams. AP2 will still mess you up but AP1... Get outta here! Also it would push players to use the Hot weapon profiles and that can then play into the increased damage from Hot, although maybe 2 instead of 4. Obscuring and Overwatch changes would be really cool to get. Obscuring can be such a 4d chess situation at times, making it somewhat simpler would help. Overwatch is kind of there now bit only elite teams really get a chance to use it. If I am using overwatch with my kommandos the somwthing has gonne horribly wrong. Can't wait for all of these changes to become reality as you are clearly working with or for GW or maybe GW is working for you, can never really quite tell. Anyway thanks for the content :D
i like the novitiates inferno special rule for flamers, but also think the no cover rule should be added. for fusillade, i think just roll then divide would work. i imagine it as selecting a target to kill, then hosing any nearby enemies with left over ammo i think faction tac ops got replaced by the new primary ops (kill ops) i agree with your obscuring changes, being on engage should remove it, but the binary nature of visibility and cover means there can be no arguments of my model is only 40% visible not 50 so you cant shoot me overwatch idea sounds cool
@@CanYouRollaCrit the dice ammount could be reduced of 1 for every targt, if there could never be more armor roles than attack roles. To make two attacks with 4 dice instead one with 5 would be reasonable.
@@CanYouRollaCrit 100% agree, it felt like a bit of an exercise every update trying to work out all implications. Just aware that today GW live in product space & moving to a “service” is a really good way to annoy everyone
To make it not just a random opposed roll, but dependant on player choices. The game does it for the first TP, but it doesn't need to be the exact same solution ofc. Just not this (almost) a coin toss whogets to trade first
@@samjsnz I was thinking a multiple use Ploy that lets you steal Initiative, but it gets more expensive every time ANY player uses that. Would let players determine how much REALLY Initiative is worth to them.
What about if all elite teams went to 5 operatives with 14/15 wounds and you can activate twice in a turn in the same way the Patriarch can, effectively giving a 5 man team 10 activations but only 15 APL?
Eh not really a fan of that tbh, you kinda just make them way too good at that point as you can stall for 5 activations by activating them all for 0APL
That is fair, I hated the point when intercession and legionary were the meta, the game was so boring as the “beginner teams” were also the most powerful. I feel the main problem of elites is when you activate everyone and then the other player plays the game around you and it’s boring, there needs to be a way to do more when that is happening.
The lower (3) the objective count the more it helps elites. You don't have to sit operatives on an objective and babysit. 5 objectives wouldn't change that much. LoS, non-reciprocal shooting and cover need help. Something needs to happen with Faction Tac Ops but it seems to me that it's not just flavor some teams use FTO for balance. Not sure about the Compendium. Too many changes all the info would be out of date a couple of months after buying it.
Yeah but 3 is just too little imo, 5 would change a lot more as you gotta spread out moee For the compendium 2.0 that is true but it's always nice having a physical book at least as online will always be up to date 😅
You got something wrong off the start aboot flamers: If there is one thing that Fast and the Furious taught me, is that you can definitely get cover from a torrent of fire... usually by using a circle of cars to shield you from an exploding submarine. Get your game physics correct, bruv!
What about making elites take less dmg in melee too? It makes no sense to me that a bayonet does the same dmg against a naked goat-man and a superhuman in half-a-ton ceramite armor
@@CanYouRollaCrit That could well be months from now. The set they came in was what, 4 months ago now? I don't understand what the holdup is. All the other ones have taken about 6 weeks between their set and individual releases :/
1. clearing up the rules, definitely. Obscuring, Fly for sure, but also "indirect" and "no cover" to flamers, flipping Heavy rule (so if you have Heavy weapon and you are stationary you GAIN +1A on it), changing Fusillade to attack 1st target normal way, and then to "torrent" from that target with half of original attacks (it could be now Fusillade X to denote range of splash..) 2. agreed on adjusting movements. Would love to see 5" movement Terminators or Armored Nobz and 7" movement eldars. 3. absolutely disagree with "lorewise" balancing weapons and armor. Lore is Mary-Sue propaganda for fanboys, and if you'd like to go by it, 1 Custode model would have to wipe enemy horde without problem. Depending or lore you pick, guardsman sniper with longlas can put down Chaos Marine, or one Marine can kill 6 guardsmen without a scratch. No, let's not go that way. 4. I would like to see weapons re-balanced, but not "because in lore..", but with common sense. If weapon is of given type, it should have the same dmg/piercing across all teams (normal knife is a knife, it should be D2/3 piercing0 with eldar, guardsmen, scout and marine alike). Differences should be in WS/BS and perhaps in number of attacks (so, guardsman would have knife with A3 WS4 D2/3 piercing0, but marine scout could be doing A4 WS3 D2/3 piercing0). That approach makes balancing damage much much easier - because dev won't have to worry about 10 different types of "bolters", but would think just about bolter dmg. 5. we (I mean, common non-tester community) don't know about squad sizes yet. Since minimal squad size mentioned in preview is 5, there is a chance new edition would redefine amount of models in each team. If that happens, wounds amount on some models may be a big big difference (6 marines vs 13 horde models IS different from 5 marines vs 11 horde models).
@@CanYouRollaCrit Alright, maybe it depends on the team and your personal focus. The Ork sniper is pretty different in its effect on the game from e.g. the Corsair sniper, but they're still both snipers and don't give their teams character for my taste.
To sad they have already written the rules and can not listen to you and take that as a base. I realy hope other involved persons are as thoughtfull as you are with those changes.
I want a daemons kill team with summoning shenanigans, since it was proven that GW isn't scared of doing teams where you can deploy ops during the game, maybe some kind of chaos undivided where you have a few summoners aligned to different gods who can summon different types of daemons
I'd rather see a team of characterful mono-god daemon individuals, like the deamon bands in WH: Underworlds, than a flavourless mix of generic lessers. Summoning would be a nice gimmick for such a team!
Was just asking for this. With the compendium going away, I really wish there was a way to integrate some of those 40k models back into existing/future kill teams. Would love it if gellerpox could field a couple plaguebearers, or the Chaos cult could summon a Chaos Spawn, or Blooded could run 1-2 flesh hounds. You could do this with a new KT as well, but in general, I don't understood why GW won't let us splice a 40k unit or 2 into their existing KT assuming the majority of your force would still have to come from their KT boxes. Is it too much to ask for a Krootox with my farstalkers :`(
I just wish that they find a way to reduce the overhead. IMO KT has too many moving parts and tracking all of it in your head is exhausting. I can only play 1 game of KT before i have to tap out because of this. Additonaly: Don't make me read all of the rules of an opposite faction - give me a short summary of what the enemy is capable of and what I have to look out for - i HATE "gotcha" moments in miniature games.
I can't agree with the changes that you're proposing for the weapons. First, it goes against EVERY single edition of WH40K. If you take a plasma, melta, bolter... from the imperial guard and compare it with the ones wielded by the space marines, you had exactly the same stats. What changed was de ballistic skill. Then you have special high quality weapons, which tend to be named differently (for instance, Master-crafted boltgun as oposed to the regular boltgun). Those are the ones mentioned in the lore, not the generic mass-produced guns that a whole faction uses. Now, if I go over your whole list of proposed changes you're proposing: -To increase the number of wounds of elite teams, 13 minimum -To decrease the damage output of non-elite teams -To provide extra actions for overwatch, which is a big bonus to elite teams Doesn't that mean that elite teams get a big buff that severily unbalances the game? Think that you're going from a balanced situation into a situation where every single change favours one type of team. Regarding tweaking grenades to use the BS of the user, I'd agree but then you would need another stat to clearly indicate which is the real BS of the miniature, as several have different BS depending if the weapon is being shot on close or long range (remember the shotguns for instance). This would add more stats, which goes against what GW has done in this edition. Think that Defense and Group Activation have gone away to simplify the game, and this would add a whole stat for ALL miniatures just to cover this cornercase. Granted, having the extra BS of the leader or an specialist taken into account in the gear text would fix the issue, just like they're already doing with the "FIRESTORM BOLT SHELLS" for the Hernkyn Yaegir Kill Team. IMHO having that extra text in the affected gear would cover the case and no extra stat would be needed. The physical compendium with the KT2021 teams on it, I don't see it. It would be selling a book with nothing new on it (full rules online) which will mean low sales, and seeing how often the stats of the teams are modified, it will quickly become useless. What I'd love to see are token sheets, cards and so on to be able to represent the abilities of the different teams. Also, not to be required to measure from the center of the token, just like what happened with the old mines, and to instead measure from the border of the token. A set of universal tokens with specific sizes could be offered or each team-box could come with a small tokensheet with the essential tokens on it. Another posibility is having the special tokens printed on the box cardboard and then giving players the oportunity to cut those and use them, just as Infinity does. Another thing that I believe would improve the game is providing every box of Kill Team with the cards that are specific to that team. That would provide a physical card to rotate or turn around after a ploy has been used. It would mean adding around 10 cards per team (Strategic ploys + Tactical Ploys + TacOps if they're present), which many other companies have been long doing (Malifaux for instance). Also, having the chance to buy these cards for the old teams when the new edition arrives, would be a great thing!
I agree with most suggestions and would like to add a big one: "Competitive Approved" Kill Teams. 1 such kill team per big faction (for example: non-elite imperium, non-elite chaos, tau, necrons, aeldari, drukhari, orks, genestealers, votann) - 9 teams that are meticulously balanced for competitive play on both ITD and open with full featured ploys, all-specialists etc. These would be well-tested and regularly, updated for balance in short cycles (monthly even). The rest are "Casual Approved" teams with less laser focus on balance, longer update cycles, with more flavor and preferably with more standardized rules (no all-specialist kill teams - reduce knowledge check gotchas). These would be used for casual gaming and for-fun tournaments. The point is that current Kill Team scares away many players from competitive play due to inherent imbalances, flavor-of-the-month teams, extreme knowledge-checks (the need to learn all the ploys and specialist abilities and equipment and weapon specials for a billion kill teams)
Stop using the stupid head to determine visibility. Use a cylinder around the model or a silhouette, like every other damn skirmish game. It's completely rdiculous that I'm supposed to believe that my boy is diving behind a wall and therefore can't be shot, but he can't move himself to see better.
In a tournament setting? Yeah but also that's what those people have fed back to me from their own events. You don't hold back at tournaments unless it's a super casual one for beginners etc
The biggest thing GW needs to do is keep Tyranids out of the game. No bugs allowed. Stay away. I also would have like some tweaks to charge block because charge blocking is essentially risk free at the moment which is kind of lame.
When I first got into Kill Team, the primary reason I ended up buying more teams was because I was able to read the rules of those teams on a certain website and thought they were cool. GW profited from the rules being free and available online. It's a no-brainer.
Also, being able to check the rules of teams you don't play so you at least have an idea of what to expect against other teams it just a good thing.
Yeah it's just a huge plus for everyone
let me gues, the "certain" website is not official from GW.
@@enricosynx5951 You guess correctly, because there is no GW site containing the rules. Team rules are currently scattered across many different books that (for obvious reasons) receive no rules updates.
Making the core rules and team rules free is a great and long overdue choice by GW
My exact Kill Team story too.
@@enricosynx5951let's be honest, it's a complete joke that team stats aren't included in the box
I've got into arguments with other competitive players about it but I do agree that I think non-reciprocal shooting needs to go
Yeah it's just kinda too toxic in general
I still think Flamer needs something other than damage to compete in the Special Weapon slot of most teams. You can buff its damage potential so it can outperform the melta/plasma but then you just replace one best-in-slot option with another.
I'd rather just add Stun to the current Flamer so it trades damage for utility, that way you have some actual variety in that slot.
That's fair or maybe remove flamers from the gunner restriction?
@@CanYouRollaCrit Sure, any number of things. Flamers are ok, they just cannot compete with the other options they are mutually exclusive with. Flamers on Traitor Marines, Novitiates and Warpcoven all do just fine imo
I agree completely. IMO Both grenades and flamers should be a bit less raw damage, and a bit more area control. Either by applying stun, or bloodying characters with any number of wounds. Maybe introduce a prone condition that grenades force, or players can choose to react with if they haven't activated yet.
Maybe flamers force a target to fall back if you cause X wounds to them in a volley.
Maybe Flamers can create a burning AoE zone for a turn that burns anyone who passes through it.
There are so many ways to make weapons more interesting ESPECIALLY in a game with such tight terrain. Id love to see more AoE effects and less +1 -1 hit/damage tinkering for every single weapon.
Hoping for another necrons kill team. Hopefully triarch focused
Ooooh yeah that'd be great!
PARIAHS.
Szeras has invented Pariahs, "newborn" Necrons with mysterious origins and their own agency, who project the same mind-draining field as the Pariah Nexus. He's sent them out as Kill Teams to hunt down fresh test subjects and secure valuable materials. Done.
I would kill people to get a triarch praetorian team, ideally Id want like an actual new kit, but even a upgrade sprue, Id go rabid for
I think they need to prevent re-rolls from negating Overcharge damage. Kinda how they did it in 40k, where Hazardous isn't tied to the hit roll but rather is a separate roll after you shoot.
Ooooh that'd be great
I always thought the MW should happen before rerolls, but 40K style roll would be much better. One test per weapon.
Also make it 4MW so a standard human is automatically injured.
@@samjsnz I don't think 1 roll per weapon is good for KT. It's too "all or nothing". It's better to roll multiple and take damage for each fail. Having more granularity in such things is better. It's same as with attacks, 40k achieves it with larger number of attacking models, but Kill Team gives each weapon more dice.
@@antongrigoryev6381 it’s better to have 1 roll as it separates it from the hit roll. That way you can’t manipulate it with rerolls or other dice modifications.
@@samjsnz You misunderstood me. Yes, it's gotta be a srparate roll from the hit roll. But it'll be better if this separate roll uses multiple dice rather than one die per weapon like it is in 40k.
I would love Flamers with indirect, but would strongly oppose "no cover". If someone hits you with a flamethrower, I assume it can make a difference if you are directly standing in the Flame or with a metal shild (barracde) between you and the attacker.
The correct solution to all line of sight questions is not basing it on the physical model at all. Make Kill Team a game about bases, predefined terrain values, and concealment states.
Yeah deffo
Maybe this is the way it's going to be? New datasheets have in the bottom right corner a circle with number 28 for vespid and aquilons and 32 for dakka boy. If new sight/cover mechanics will be related to bases or not, definitely base size is important enough to be included in the new data sheets. Who knows 🤷🏽
A necron team based on the flayed ones. Lean into the horror stealth aspect! Have a destroyer to lead them
Or a new Flayer lord 👀
@CanYouRollaCrit that would be rad too! Space marines have so many leaders, we xenos players need more! By the way, I love your ideas about the weapons not being the same across the board. Thematically and balance wise it makes sense!
If the app is going to be tracking games, both casual & competitive, I hope the data for it is allowed to be readily available for it to be parsed and analyzed by the public.
Yup that would be great!
I would love if they still encourage the use of colors with the measurement numbers. I still intend to use the movement tools for teaching people how to play and coloring them as they were before because it’s just a nice visual reference so people know which side of the ruler you are asking them to use
I like colours but I found out a lot of people are colour blind to a degree which makes it way harder for them to get into 😅
@@CanYouRollaCrit oh yeah that is an excellent point and I realize that I should have been clearer that I meant numbers and colors . Numbers make the most sense.
Full rules for Strike Force Justian would be nice. Losing the compendium's pretty sad now that I can't even be a punching bag by playing Heavy Intercessors.
I'm also one who had to learn the hard way that I had to adopt non-reciprocal shooting out of necessity, but I won't miss it at all if they clean up and tighten the obscuring and LoS rules. Sure it's some very optimized use of the rules, but you can't tell me it doesn't sound like bs when you're on the receiving end. Regardless of mental gymnastics to justify it, it needs to go for the sake of curbing NPE.
Yeah hopefully full rules for them soon
Funny how you explained how you wanted obscure to work, because I've exclusively played this game as open or narrative types with a couple of friends, and it didn't take a lot of games before we house ruled into basically this and it made the game so much better since then.
We didn't actually reduce the amount of attack dice, though, but we increased the BS that was required by 1 for each piece of heavy terrain that was in between the attacker and the attacked. So if you were in a situation where there were two pieces of heavy terrain that was crossing the line of sight, people could still shoot but they were have a reeeeally hard time hitting anything.
...however, I don't think obscuring should work the way it does today while concealed, because that would
a) still require us to learn and understand that silly rule, now on top of the difference from being engage
b) actually make even less sense thematically, as conceal out in the open is still out in the open... conceal next to terrain makes sense, as you are hiding behind it.
Oooh sounds fun but would get a bit too complicated in practice imo
Flamers need to be good! My Sallies need it! (personally, I would love to have Infernus Marine/s or Hellblaster (one) as an option for Intercession)
Overall, I agree with your ideas, they're reasonable and pretty good.
Maybe even add some Jump Pack infantry... That would be cool.
Oooh those ideas sound great
I might be being a bit of a pedant with this but I think "granularity" doesn't mean similarity/homogeneity across a set of individual pieces of data, I think granularity means *more* detail and specificity between individual pieces of data, thus asking for more granularity across weapons would be asking for each of them to be balanced individually rather than asking all similar weapons to have the same characteristics.
Regardless of that, great suggestions! I honestly don't love that the previous editions' KTs are probably going to be abandoned in 3 years time but I am still hoping to have support for my teams for a long while yet to come. Also, perhaps for fly, instead of paying for their vertical movement straight up, they should have climb rules but rounded down instead of rounded up to the next increment of 2"?
Oooh that could work for fly
I don't know how other people feel but I find it kind of curious that there aren't more legion specific bespoke kill teams. I know space marine spam is a thing but they are GW's biggest earners. I really thought when kill team 2 was rolled out in 2021 that we would eventually see more than just an ultramarines team and night lords . I would absolutely love to be able to play a dark angels one with a plasma boy and one of the forgiven or something like that, or a space wolves hit squad, or blood angels
We'll probably get them as the years go on imo
Sad to see the Talons and Tyranid Teams go, i would use both... Hopefully the Narative Part gives options to fight tough things like a carnifex or dread as opponent sometimes in the future.
Yeah I'd live to fight big enemies
Fusilade should be all misses can be rerolled as attacks against a chosen target within range. So anything that doesn't hit the primary target gets to be rolled against the secondary (and so in if there are more targets within range)
Ah that kinda makes it wayyyy to reliable but I get the idea
@@CanYouRollaCrit maybe you lose the 1's? IDK, seems thematic that you're just hosing down an area that anything that misses what you were "aiming" at has a chance to hit something else there. Maybe the 'misses' hit on +1 BS
My problem with 7" eldar movement , that other eldar teams (Corsair and Mandrakes) can get the 1" extra: Corsairs from strat ploy(and cant shoot or fight) + faction ability for dash.
Mandrakes eq for dashing and free dash from strat ploy. Than gw should rebalance that too
I think those would be rebalanced if movement was increased
My request for new Killteam is an Exodite team and then a wacky team that only makes sense with the smaller unit count. Maybe the imperium discovers a handfull of functional Men of Iron, or maybe like some Zoats.
More Exodite teams, yesss
What you are explaining about grenades could be expandet to weapons in general: put the base hit chance on the operatives and remove them from the weapons (some could have +1 or -1 like Sniper Rifles or Power Fists)
Hmmm only issue is it would complicate the game more
LOS rules have always been an issue in tabletop. Never heard of a good solution. I agree that being able to target the tip of a battle standard, wing or radio antenna is silly. But if you try to introduce “percentage of model” based rules, then you get into the arguments over what constitutes 50%. Using the base for LOS has its own issues. Such as standing behind a piece of cover that’s 1/4” high and claiming full cover because the model’s base can’t be seen. Or the opposite, where 2mm of the base sticks out past the wall and then the whole model is supposedly visible. The only answer is declaring intent when positioning a model, and then having two reasonable people judging the situation. Sadly, you can’t always depend on people being reasonable when a Golden Ticket is on the line.
Oh 100%, I think Necromunda does it better but the current way isn't great
The base-for-LoS issues are very easy to fix, though. We already have Insignificant cover and Light/Heavy cover, as well as Vantage points. You just need a tag for:
a) "Loose" terrain, that provides Cover but doesn't block LoS (most Light stuff, e.g. barricades, windows)
b) "Solid" terrain, that provides Cover and blocks LoS (most Heavy stuff, e.g. walls)
Then make it so standing on top of a Vantage Point downgrades or lets you ignore nearby terrain for LoS purposes, same as it currently does for Light cover, since you can look "over" it. Done.
My only solution to model-based visibility 'don't play with assholes'
AMG games have cover figured out, not sure why it’s so hard for GW to use base to base
@@FlyWire2 Okay, but what does that mean, exactly? If I build a Kroot model crouching to track their prey, does that make me an asshole, because they're now harder to see? If you try to shoot a Space Marine because its bolt rifle is showing from behind a barricade, does that make you an asshole, because shooting a gun isn't going to hurt them?
Or should we just remove the ambiguity at the root - in the rules - and let people build and pose the models the way they like?
It’s weird that we don’t have an app for Horus heresy, legions imperialis, and kill team, sorely needed for specialist games
Ah KT is a main game now but would love to see apps for both HH and LI!
Great suggestions overall, I'd be thrilled if these make it in. Overall super stoked for the next edition though.
Ah thanks, same!!
KT21 LOS is good, i like it, but not newbie-friendly and abusable when you get it.
I'd expect some kind of "long range" malus to replace obscurity. (Those 8" mentioned for the vespids maybe?)
Since you mentioned Necromunda, it has long range and short range bonus and malus to hit depending on the weapon profile and 0/-1/-2 to hi based on cover % that is arguable. Not suitable for a competitive game.
Yeah, just needs a tweak imo
Necromunda ranges and shooting is kinda too in-depth, so yeah agree with you
*may we have a bespoke Custodes team sir
😢
Eyes of the Emperor kill team ayyyy
I can see it now. 5 custodian bros..a warden, Blade champ, Custodian guard, Saggitarum , and a vexillus.
Bespoke nids, GSC ain't bad but they're not true bio form nids
Yeah I want my legit Genestealer team 🥲
That be nice, I'd like either von ryan leapers, or warriors to make a return
Shrikes would be awesome
Yes, a tyranid kill team with Lots of options (like the compendium one), I am a Fan of 10 x genestealer, or 5 x genestealer and 8x hormogant/termagant.
Or some New specialists.
I'd love a team that had like leapers and gaunts as your troopers and like Warriors, Revaners and some kind of maybe mini Zoanthrope as your specialist. A Nid team that had unit diversity would be awesome.
You are playtester ;-), but I don't think that torrent is gone. In Vespid article, when they were describing communion points, it was written, that only initial targets of blast and torrent are restricted by Vespid instincts - so there still is some kind of multi-target attack. But maybe better. Or maybe with indirect.
Not a PT 🥲
True but I hope we get indirect at least 🥲
If necrons can get heirotek circle with a character, 5 immortals and some plasmacytes. Tyranids can get a lictor, 3 leapers and some KT exclusive vanguard organism.
Anything is possible
I see what you're going for with your idea for grenade changes but I don't feel the narrative/in lore/whatever reason maps on with your mechanical change. For what you're describing imo templates and scatter dice mechanics would fit significantly better, but for better or worse we don't have those. I don't feel like it makes sense for space marine leader to have a more deadly frag grenade than a regular space marine just because he can throw it 3 centimeters closer to the inside of the left arch of a guardsman's foot. But i do agree horde grenades probably ought to be weaker than elite team grenades mechanically for the reasons you mentioned and in lore you can chalk it up to better gear for elites.
Other than that the rest all sound like good changes. When we got ITD and the guard action I thought to myself that this is kinda what overwatch attacks should have been
1. Bespoke teams for old compendium teams (Custodes my beloved, please let me use the new Guardian Melta Spear)
2. All LoS base to base, true line of sight is the actual worst to figure out sometimes
3. Less damage overall, I wish the game was more scrappy rather than “the deadliest game of Hide and Seek you’ve ever played”
Deadly hide and seek is the best tho 👀
@@CanYouRollaCrit idk I play a lot of skirmish games and the best ones imo are scrappy and objective based
I'm terrified of shapes, yeah numbers!
Shapes are deadly, numbers are friendly
Hot take,
but as a player just getting into KT; who was starting with the Compendium, I would love to see some of those 40k options options re-integrated as Auxiliary fire teams, or 1-off units into existing KT's. You would still need to buy the base kill team, but could then augment it with 1-4 40k models.
Examples:
Farstalkers getting a Krootox, Pathfinders can take one 3x fireteam of stealthsuits, Gellerpox can take plaguebearers, chaos cult could summon a chaos spawn, and Blooded might have access to flesh hounds.
If this happened, I would not only be fine with the compendium going away, but actually excited for the nice influx of added KT variation.
Oooh that would sound fun
This is unlikely to work, due to the big problem of balancing teams in the kind of case you are talking about. KT is currently the most balanced GW game and let it stay that way
@@Nipponson86 I disagree updating a kill team with 1-2 additional operators over the v3 timeline is too daunting to balance.
They might muck it up a bit on the initial offering of an extra operative, but that is what quarterly balance passes help smooth out. It's also why I was careful to suggest only integrating single pre-existing compendium unit to a kill team, and only where appropriate (Farstalkers can take 1 Krootox, Pathfinders can split into a 3x stealth suit fire team + an X man pathfinder fire team, blooded can sub in 2 flesh hounds).
I agree we should NOT open the floodgates of 40k, but if you look through the existing Kill Teams and the offerings from the old compendium I think there is room to port (with changes) a highly curated selection of single units into specific teams and balance them.
In general I don't believe kill teams should exist like a time capsule to never be expanded upon after released.
If you had fun with compendium KT deamons and wanted to field a Plaguebearer in KT v3, I would hate if the only hope for its integration was an entirely new Nurgle deamon KT that might maybe one day offer it, rather than just integrating a single plaguebearer selection into Gellerpox because "that would just be to prohibitive to balance".
No changes desired for how vantage works? (Eg. With obscuring, cover, etc.)
Nah I'm fine with vantage points imo
I'm pretty sure the objective markers are on two of the token sheets, so 6 total. One of them has 15 of each engage / conceal which probably wouldn't be enough for both teams I think?
I think it's just 2 double-sheets? I'd hope we get 5 objectives over 3 or 6 though
I would be surprised if it's 3. The reveal article says two sheets, which looks like only 3 objective markers but there are more than 15 operatives in the two teams so it must be 2 of the same sheets plus one for the other stuff, otherwise you go to play a game with the box and not everyone can be concealed/engaged at the same time. My hopes at least
Hopefully we get a second necron team, hierotek is good but feels bad to play against
Skorpekh team when 👀
Free digital rules are cool, also if I remember correctly each box will come with a QR cose that will take you straight to the online rules for that team. Can't wait to cut that of the box, forget it in my pants and put it through the washer ahhhhh.
Getting some faction specific movement differences would be great. Just for flavour really.
Fully on board for any Torrent change whatsoever, right now its just clunky. Even without spash having torrent be a combination of No cover and Indirect would make a world of difference.
Armour of Contempt already sort of exists in 2021 Kill team through the Invulnerable Battle Honour, this simply ignores AP1 special rule, which would be cool to have on some elite teams. AP2 will still mess you up but AP1... Get outta here!
Also it would push players to use the Hot weapon profiles and that can then play into the increased damage from Hot, although maybe 2 instead of 4.
Obscuring and Overwatch changes would be really cool to get. Obscuring can be such a 4d chess situation at times, making it somewhat simpler would help. Overwatch is kind of there now bit only elite teams really get a chance to use it. If I am using overwatch with my kommandos the somwthing has gonne horribly wrong.
Can't wait for all of these changes to become reality as you are clearly working with or for GW or maybe GW is working for you, can never really quite tell.
Anyway thanks for the content :D
Ooooh nice ideas, ah I hope I'm wrong about everything 😂😭😭😭
i like the novitiates inferno special rule for flamers, but also think the no cover rule should be added.
for fusillade, i think just roll then divide would work. i imagine it as selecting a target to kill, then hosing any nearby enemies with left over ammo
i think faction tac ops got replaced by the new primary ops (kill ops)
i agree with your obscuring changes, being on engage should remove it, but the binary nature of visibility and cover means there can be no arguments of my model is only 40% visible not 50 so you cant shoot me
overwatch idea sounds cool
Ah kinda but inferno is very 50/50
That could work for fusillade
Nah I think primaries are something else now?
Ah thanks!
Fussilade should be a bigger range than two inch, at least three. (When you think about how a MG works)
Kinda but then it would be almost too good imo
@@CanYouRollaCrit the dice ammount could be reduced of 1 for every targt, if there could never be more armor roles than attack roles. To make two attacks with 4 dice instead one with 5 would be reasonable.
My only concern with going digital is the creep towards a subscription service for rules and updates
True but if we get a proper living rulebook then that would be okay imo
@@CanYouRollaCrit 100% agree, it felt like a bit of an exercise every update trying to work out all implications. Just aware that today GW live in product space & moving to a “service” is a really good way to annoy everyone
New video, old hair! the timeline gets funky XD
The timelines are collapsing!
Key things to fix for me:
-random initiative (too much impact for too little player agency)
-tac ops balance (S&D a no-brainer)
Random initiative in what way?
To make it not just a random opposed roll, but dependant on player choices. The game does it for the first TP, but it doesn't need to be the exact same solution ofc. Just not this (almost) a coin toss whogets to trade first
@@robertchmielecki2580I think a D3 roll would help, would create more tie breaks
Oh nah that would be too strong. Having control over initiative would break the game
@@samjsnz I was thinking a multiple use Ploy that lets you steal Initiative, but it gets more expensive every time ANY player uses that.
Would let players determine how much REALLY Initiative is worth to them.
What about if all elite teams went to 5 operatives with 14/15 wounds and you can activate twice in a turn in the same way the Patriarch can, effectively giving a 5 man team 10 activations but only 15 APL?
Eh not really a fan of that tbh, you kinda just make them way too good at that point as you can stall for 5 activations by activating them all for 0APL
That is fair, I hated the point when intercession and legionary were the meta, the game was so boring as the “beginner teams” were also the most powerful.
I feel the main problem of elites is when you activate everyone and then the other player plays the game around you and it’s boring, there needs to be a way to do more when that is happening.
I really hope that my boys Exaction Squad will be buffed
Ah I hope so, they're so much fun
Maybe some day they will be good
The lower (3) the objective count the more it helps elites. You don't have to sit operatives on an objective and babysit. 5 objectives wouldn't change that much. LoS, non-reciprocal shooting and cover need help. Something needs to happen with Faction Tac Ops but it seems to me that it's not just flavor some teams use FTO for balance. Not sure about the Compendium. Too many changes all the info would be out of date a couple of months after buying it.
Yeah but 3 is just too little imo, 5 would change a lot more as you gotta spread out moee
For the compendium 2.0 that is true but it's always nice having a physical book at least as online will always be up to date 😅
I hope i will be good at this edition , because i sucked at the last one 😂
There is hope! 😅🥳
I like the flow of the game, but I’d like the wording cleaned up and simplification of Line of Sight and cover.
Same
You got something wrong off the start aboot flamers: If there is one thing that Fast and the Furious taught me, is that you can definitely get cover from a torrent of fire... usually by using a circle of cars to shield you from an exploding submarine. Get your game physics correct, bruv!
Damn, I forgot about that. And the power of FAMILY
3 words: Beast Snagga Nobs
Yessss
Hoping for the literal team that has the name 'Kill team' in it to actually have a goddamn team this time around.
Pray4Deathwatch
What about making elites take less dmg in melee too? It makes no sense to me that a bayonet does the same dmg against a naked goat-man and a superhuman in half-a-ton ceramite armor
Ah I think that's fine as it reflects the brutality of CC. Plus specific Kill Teams for Elites can get around it more
I'd like GW to finally start individually selling the Killteam I want to buy (Mandrakes), preferably before the new edition...
Imo they'll drop for the new edition with new boxes for the rules
@@CanYouRollaCrit That could well be months from now. The set they came in was what, 4 months ago now? I don't understand what the holdup is. All the other ones have taken about 6 weeks between their set and individual releases :/
@maxmagnus377 they've likely switched them to new KT boxes with QR codes for the free rules for the new edition as they said in the articles
1. clearing up the rules, definitely. Obscuring, Fly for sure, but also "indirect" and "no cover" to flamers, flipping Heavy rule (so if you have Heavy weapon and you are stationary you GAIN +1A on it), changing Fusillade to attack 1st target normal way, and then to "torrent" from that target with half of original attacks (it could be now Fusillade X to denote range of splash..)
2. agreed on adjusting movements. Would love to see 5" movement Terminators or Armored Nobz and 7" movement eldars.
3. absolutely disagree with "lorewise" balancing weapons and armor. Lore is Mary-Sue propaganda for fanboys, and if you'd like to go by it, 1 Custode model would have to wipe enemy horde without problem. Depending or lore you pick, guardsman sniper with longlas can put down Chaos Marine, or one Marine can kill 6 guardsmen without a scratch. No, let's not go that way.
4. I would like to see weapons re-balanced, but not "because in lore..", but with common sense. If weapon is of given type, it should have the same dmg/piercing across all teams (normal knife is a knife, it should be D2/3 piercing0 with eldar, guardsmen, scout and marine alike). Differences should be in WS/BS and perhaps in number of attacks (so, guardsman would have knife with A3 WS4 D2/3 piercing0, but marine scout could be doing A4 WS3 D2/3 piercing0). That approach makes balancing damage much much easier - because dev won't have to worry about 10 different types of "bolters", but would think just about bolter dmg.
5. we (I mean, common non-tester community) don't know about squad sizes yet. Since minimal squad size mentioned in preview is 5, there is a chance new edition would redefine amount of models in each team. If that happens, wounds amount on some models may be a big big difference (6 marines vs 13 horde models IS different from 5 marines vs 11 horde models).
There is no DEF stat in datasheet, do you think that everyone will roll 3 defense die or will be 1 save roll per hit?
I think everyone will be 3 dice tbh
Isn’t it already 3 dice for everyone?
@ToastErickson some operatives are 2 defence atm
You need to put that on a T-shirt
Trust me I'm not a play tester
Maybe 🥲
Confirming that removal of faction tacops makes me mad. They need to be rebalanced bad, but they're 50% of a Team's flavour.
50% is a hugggge swing. They add some but not much. I think they're great for narrative KT
@@CanYouRollaCrit Alright, maybe it depends on the team and your personal focus. The Ork sniper is pretty different in its effect on the game from e.g. the Corsair sniper, but they're still both snipers and don't give their teams character for my taste.
To sad they have already written the rules and can not listen to you and take that as a base. I realy hope other involved persons are as thoughtfull as you are with those changes.
Ah I'm sure the other people involved are (:
I want a daemons kill team with summoning shenanigans, since it was proven that GW isn't scared of doing teams where you can deploy ops during the game, maybe some kind of chaos undivided where you have a few summoners aligned to different gods who can summon different types of daemons
Oooh nice, sounds fun
I'd rather see a team of characterful mono-god daemon individuals, like the deamon bands in WH: Underworlds, than a flavourless mix of generic lessers.
Summoning would be a nice gimmick for such a team!
Vashtorri cyber-daemons. They're a Kill Team because they're out to corrupt valuable technology, secure targets for their master, etc.
@@robertchmielecki2580 That'd be weird because all 4 gods would never work together
Was just asking for this.
With the compendium going away, I really wish there was a way to integrate some of those 40k models back into existing/future kill teams. Would love it if gellerpox could field a couple plaguebearers, or the Chaos cult could summon a Chaos Spawn, or Blooded could run 1-2 flesh hounds.
You could do this with a new KT as well, but in general, I don't understood why GW won't let us splice a 40k unit or 2 into their existing KT assuming the majority of your force would still have to come from their KT boxes.
Is it too much to ask for a Krootox with my farstalkers :`(
Making space marine normal boltgun 3/4 damage i think IS not good. They shoild shoot better. Like 4/4
Ooooh 4/4 boltguns would be hype
If they think Vespid are glass cannons with 9 wounds, then boltguns should be 4/5.
Wouldn't those movement stats totally break the game?
Nope, how would they break the game? :o
Huh, no vertical battle zone?
Verticle battlezone?
@@CanYouRollaCrit Yup, like a pinball battlezone, with your operatives stay afloat while bringing down the enemies
@RevanR people aren't ready for 4D chess KT yet 😂
I just wish that they find a way to reduce the overhead. IMO KT has too many moving parts and tracking all of it in your head is exhausting. I can only play 1 game of KT before i have to tap out because of this. Additonaly: Don't make me read all of the rules of an opposite faction - give me a short summary of what the enemy is capable of and what I have to look out for - i HATE "gotcha" moments in miniature games.
That's what they seem to have done with the new edition so far tho
I can't agree with the changes that you're proposing for the weapons. First, it goes against EVERY single edition of WH40K. If you take a plasma, melta, bolter... from the imperial guard and compare it with the ones wielded by the space marines, you had exactly the same stats. What changed was de ballistic skill.
Then you have special high quality weapons, which tend to be named differently (for instance, Master-crafted boltgun as oposed to the regular boltgun). Those are the ones mentioned in the lore, not the generic mass-produced guns that a whole faction uses.
Now, if I go over your whole list of proposed changes you're proposing:
-To increase the number of wounds of elite teams, 13 minimum
-To decrease the damage output of non-elite teams
-To provide extra actions for overwatch, which is a big bonus to elite teams
Doesn't that mean that elite teams get a big buff that severily unbalances the game? Think that you're going from a balanced situation into a situation where every single change favours one type of team.
Regarding tweaking grenades to use the BS of the user, I'd agree but then you would need another stat to clearly indicate which is the real BS of the miniature, as several have different BS depending if the weapon is being shot on close or long range (remember the shotguns for instance). This would add more stats, which goes against what GW has done in this edition. Think that Defense and Group Activation have gone away to simplify the game, and this would add a whole stat for ALL miniatures just to cover this cornercase.
Granted, having the extra BS of the leader or an specialist taken into account in the gear text would fix the issue, just like they're already doing with the "FIRESTORM BOLT SHELLS" for the Hernkyn Yaegir Kill Team. IMHO having that extra text in the affected gear would cover the case and no extra stat would be needed.
The physical compendium with the KT2021 teams on it, I don't see it. It would be selling a book with nothing new on it (full rules online) which will mean low sales, and seeing how often the stats of the teams are modified, it will quickly become useless.
What I'd love to see are token sheets, cards and so on to be able to represent the abilities of the different teams. Also, not to be required to measure from the center of the token, just like what happened with the old mines, and to instead measure from the border of the token.
A set of universal tokens with specific sizes could be offered or each team-box could come with a small tokensheet with the essential tokens on it. Another posibility is having the special tokens printed on the box cardboard and then giving players the oportunity to cut those and use them, just as Infinity does.
Another thing that I believe would improve the game is providing every box of Kill Team with the cards that are specific to that team. That would provide a physical card to rotate or turn around after a ploy has been used. It would mean adding around 10 cards per team (Strategic ploys + Tactical Ploys + TacOps if they're present), which many other companies have been long doing (Malifaux for instance). Also, having the chance to buy these cards for the old teams when the new edition arrives, would be a great thing!
Crit! What about some love towards underworlds? Did you abandoned this game?
Yeah as it's basically dead sadly
I agree with most suggestions and would like to add a big one: "Competitive Approved" Kill Teams. 1 such kill team per big faction (for example: non-elite imperium, non-elite chaos, tau, necrons, aeldari, drukhari, orks, genestealers, votann) - 9 teams that are meticulously balanced for competitive play on both ITD and open with full featured ploys, all-specialists etc. These would be well-tested and regularly, updated for balance in short cycles (monthly even). The rest are "Casual Approved" teams with less laser focus on balance, longer update cycles, with more flavor and preferably with more standardized rules (no all-specialist kill teams - reduce knowledge check gotchas). These would be used for casual gaming and for-fun tournaments.
The point is that current Kill Team scares away many players from competitive play due to inherent imbalances, flavor-of-the-month teams, extreme knowledge-checks (the need to learn all the ploys and specialist abilities and equipment and weapon specials for a billion kill teams)
You mean the next edition or the next, next edition? 🧐
Yes
Stop using the stupid head to determine visibility. Use a cylinder around the model or a silhouette, like every other damn skirmish game. It's completely rdiculous that I'm supposed to believe that my boy is diving behind a wall and therefore can't be shot, but he can't move himself to see better.
I'd prefer silhouettes too but I'm not sure if GW would ever implement that sadly
13:26 Really? You're pulling non-reciprocal shots on new players? And you wonder why that'd turn them off the game? Dude....
In a tournament setting? Yeah but also that's what those people have fed back to me from their own events. You don't hold back at tournaments unless it's a super casual one for beginners etc
The biggest thing GW needs to do is keep Tyranids out of the game. No bugs allowed. Stay away. I also would have like some tweaks to charge block because charge blocking is essentially risk free at the moment which is kind of lame.
Ah Charge blocking is a great tactic tho
But my Nids 🥲🥲🥲