I grew up fundie. Ask me anything.
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- *Other videos on fundie stuff*: • Christian Fundamentalism
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Leave any further questions you have here and I can do a part 2!
Tw: OCD and EDSo I was raised Lutheran the religious abuse didn’t start really until I went to a sleepover with a friend when I was 7 and this man showed us a movie about how if we didn’t love Jesus we would be taken by the devil. I mixed the two backgrounds and would say the Lords Prayer a multiple of five times before I went to sleep to not be possessed by the devil in the night… I’ve been struggling with OCD and ED ever since and I ended up deep in Young Life (if you’ve heard of them)this is all to ask (as I know you also suffer with OCD) do you think religion especially those that use a lot of fear lead to higher rates of these issues, that then go unaddressed bc of rejection of psychiatry? 🧡❤️🖤
You've mentioned that fundies are very anti-communist. Why are they so anti-communist and what do they think communism really is?
Did you have rac1st beliefs growing up due to your religious education? Did it affect your relationship with non-Wh1te people as a young adult?
Have you ever gone back to watch one of those 'Left Behind' movies? I did, and I laughed so hard I couldn't finish it. Wow. Just so bad.
thank you for sharing your experiences
i was just wondering when you mentioned secular music was there any backlash or shock in the church community when songs using religion as a theme went viral? When take me to church by hozier (amazing song imo) went big I remember the backlash and questioning despite the people around me not being active members in a church so i couldn't imagine how that would shape a young person seeing media through that lens given to them?
sorry for the long comment but love your videos!
I love that your stepdad, who had no experience as a parent, got to make all the parenting rules and your mom was like "sure that sounds great"
I KNOW RIGHT?! I've been saying this for 20 years!
It makes sense in the fundie world because husbands are above wives in the hierarchy (and God is the third party in the marriage).
Similar with mine. I mean my mum had the final say, but he still gave "Advice" like my partner and I couldn't sleep in the same room and I got in trouble for that because of some miscommunication.
“I’m afraid of the God I believe in. So I’m done now” wow that is so impactful. That says it all, honestly. That one sentence can change so many peoples lives
Fancy seeing you here!!
This is the same conclusion I came to when I was moving away from religion. I am too afraid of religion and God to be a follower of it. It confuses me greatly when people become Christians later in life and didn't seem to have a religious upbringing, because it makes me question what they're seeing as not traumatizing from religion that it pushed me away?
Same, that's how I become atheist as well, I was sick and tired of apparently being watched at all times. Feeling embarrassed I do normal things at the toilet isn't normal but believing this God and Devil watched my every move made me so. Glad I left that shit.
The whole “catholics aren’t real Christians” thing always weirds me out since its kind of the other way around in Europe. It took me a while to learn that fundies in the US aren’t all catholics.😅
Lol, yeah and they mean it too. I was raised Catholic. In 8th grade I went with my friend Caren to her Baptist church one weekend as part of some sort of youth group competition to see which age group brought the most guests. Caren exclusively wore ankle length skirts, instead of our required shorts for the gym uniform she had permission to wear culottes, so I have the impression they were more fund-y than not (the youth group lesson before the service was also about how dating is wrong and you should wait until after high school and then begin searching for a marriage partner, and I guess hope you choose right on the first try or something?). Another friend Elise, a more run of the mill Protestant of some sort came too.
After the service, Caren introduced us to the Pastor. He asked us where we went to church. Elise said whichever church she went to, he was like, "Oh, yes. I know where that is." Then I said, "Most Sacred Heart." (I don't know if he knew it specifically or could just tell it was Catholic from the name). But his response was, "Oh. Has Caren talked to you about being saved?" I was confused, I had not been exposed to the "Catholics aren't real Christians" thing, so my mom had to explain it. Then I was just more confused, like, "Christ is right in the name Christian. Isn't believing in Christ kind of the defining thing? Catholics do that so...." I mean I could see their usual "X group (in this case Catholics) are going to hell because somehow literally only our exact sect of Christianity is doing it right," that would at least have more consistency and make more sense, insofar as any of it makes "sense." 😂
But anyway, tl;dr, other Protestants "oh yeah, them," Catholics, "oh *you* need to be saved!"
Yuuuuuup. I was raised in eastern Europe, so we were taught that "Most Christians are Catholics, which is the less strict, more WORLDLY type. We are Orthodox Christians, which is a small minority which is more strict and therefore more right." Which sounds the same as fundamentalism, but it absolutely isn't. Because my impression was that 99% of Christians are Catholics. Like, I was still taught that that is the default. So to learn of all these little pockets of Christianity in the US, wherein the Mormons look down on the Fundies, and the Fundies look down on the Jehovah's Witnesses, and they look down on the Seventh Day Adventists was and remains a fascinating experience for me.
As a German who studies theology : no it is not the other way round in Europe. You are talking about the South of Europe
@@Petrichor-cf6dw Would you care to elaborate? Genuinely curious 😊
I got offended when I read one of those Jack Chick Tracts about a Catholic man who died and was condemned to Hell because he was a Catholic!
Speaking as a former attendee at a religious school... nothing drove me away from Christianity quite like *that* school. Well said, Rachel. Thanks.
Same 😭
Saaaaaaaaame. In second grade, one girl said that people can't be brought back to life, and so Jesus's resurrection seemed far-fetched. The teacher screamed at her for five minutes about how she was a fake catholic, not a true believer. and her parents should pull her from school. It was yikes all around.
Thanks, Dad, for making me go to a catholic school when we weren't religious. 👍👍
This.
I went to a uniformed, fundie Christian school until 4th grade. Gender roles were aggressively enforced. Shit ruined my life. I still haven’t recovered from the psychological trauma. And I’ll be 40 this year. So yay Jesus. 🥴
Seriously. Same.
so interesting! i grew up catholic myself in italy (my teachers were nuns), though i left the church as soon as i could. it always baffles me when other "kinds" of christians say catholicism isn't real or valid because i was always taught it was the "original flavour" of christianity
It also makes me laugh because my grandparents are the type to say “You were born into a catholic family because you are special and deserve better thing”. 😂😂😂😂 they all think they’re the special religion though aren’t they?
@@chelscara yes, there are. It's the only true religion from which the evil heretics have seceded. I used to be shouted at Catholic meetings when I said that what really matters is God and where you feel closer to God, not what denomination it is 🙃
Same
It's interesting because it's partly true and partly false, and apparently no denomination really teaches the true history of the "church" or even the Bible. I didn't learn most of the actual facts about Christianity and the Bible until I became a Religious Studies major in college, which led me to become an atheist.
@@phonty1 like Gnostic Christianity! NO ONE talks about that.
My sister was exercised. Twice. On two separate occasions. By two different (but similarly insane) groups of family members. Because she was a lesbian who liked to talk back. I guess she should be lucky that she was born in this time period, in previous ones they probably would call her a witch and burn her.
I was lucky enough that my church (i think) didn't really do exorcisms, but i have a friend who's parents tried to exorcise her for being trans... it was awful. the things she's told me are horrific, and her parents were given power to hurt her by fundamentalism
@@E_Does_YT yeah it seems like such a wild and crazy thing, but it’s a lot more common than people think. And so much of “conversation therapy” is really just psychological/physical abuse. The same sister was sent to a program that shackled her and fed her only canned beets. It took us fighting in court for a year to get her out because her mom had custody.
@@taylorgayhart9497 holy shit- I hope she’s okay now
I'm autistic and I would probably be burned as a witch if I had lived in the era of witch hunts!
My husband grew up Evangelical Christian. He was homeschooled and he always likes to listen to you when you talk about your experiences. He says they’re very similar to his.
I'm so glad to hear this! Tell him I said hi!
Rapture/Being left behind trauma is so real. I can remember waking up and not being able to find anyone in the house and sobbing because I was convinced I'd been so sinful that I'd been left behind. I was 8 the first time that happened. It makes me both sad and angry that so many of us with Christian parents had that fear put in us.
Sometimes it's hard for me to understand that people can raise children this way.
I grew up in a strongly Catholic family. An obligatory visit to the church every Sunday, church every holiday, minor, major, whatever. Prayers at home with family in specific months (e.g. praying the rosary daily in October). It all seemed normal and obvious to me, and I was shocked that my friends didn't have to do it. But. Despite this, my childhood turned out to be very open. My mother herself brought me the first volume of Harry Potter. When I told her about The Da Vinci Code, a controversial film at the time, she said she would watch the film herself to understand what all the fuss was about. I could read and watch what I wanted with little control over adult content. I had and still have various friends, believers, non-believers, queer, straight. No one has ever forbidden me to be friends with them. No one ever had a sex talk with me, but at the same time, it somehow dawned on me. Some of the information was provided by school, even though I had given up sex education myself. And I lived in the countryside, before the Internet. Maybe it's because in my country private Christian schools are almost non-existent and home schooling is almost exclusively available to chronically ill children. I'm almost thirty and still go to church, maybe not as often as I used to, but I do.
When I was younger, I thought my parents were very strict. Now I know that they taught us what they knew, but they did not forbid us to explore the world. And I am grateful to them for that.
When I hear about experiences like yours, I understand why we Christians have such a bad reputation.
EDIT. BTW, it always bothers me the problem other Christian factions have with Catholic 'idol thing'. It's weird. We do not believe that paintings and sculptures are gods. They are not even a 'form' of God. It seems to me that it's more of an art form, confessing your faith and showing it to the world. I don't know, maybe it's just me who was raised that way?
It's just constant scuffle between denominations. Catholics call Protestants heretics who have strayed from the truth. Protestants call Catholics not true Christians who have erred and have saints and Mary as idols instead of the true God
I grew up mainline Protestant with a Protestant mother and Catholic father, and I had a very similar experience to you. It horrifies me how so many parents use religion to mess their kids up. 😭
I always thought it was pretty presumptuous for extreme Christians to claim that they knew what god wanted for them/were doing what god wanted them to, or that god was making all these piddly little micro-decisions in their lives.
Oof, a lot of this hit me hard. I went from being Catholic and living with the perma-guilt of that to agnostic to falling into Evangelical Christianity during a dark point in my life. Even being an educated person I was drawn into the culture of it all. Christian radio, Bible study, "giving it all to Jesus", workshops... to the point that the church I attended wanted to film my testimony and I let them. Because I felt like my testimony would save more people. I basically excised all the parts of me that didn't fit into that Evangelical box so I would have a place in that community.
I'm spiritual/religious now, but it's on my own terms. The fact we exist on this little blue dot and that humans came from a long journey of evolution is more impactful than anything that church could have described. And we all deserve compassion and love for somehow winning the genetic lottery and being here at all.
I remember hearing the adults (men AND WOMEN) saying things like “had she (the wife) been living in Christ he (the husband) would not have fallen into sin” whenever a man cheated or had a drinking problem. Basically I was taught that a man’s failings were always the wife’s fault, and that it was my job to be a good Christian so my husband would be good to me… those were the gender roles I was taught. I was also told that if someone lusted after me it was my fault, that I had to always “live modestly”, which isn’t limited to dressing modestly but ALSO not wearing makeup and generally not coming across attractive to men. You had to polite and demure, smile at the boys and men, but not smile too much or be too pretty as to “distract them” from their worship. It was disgusting.
100% homeschooled abeka kid here 🙋♀️ boy do I relate to this. The literal interpretations, the constant ‘spiritual warfare’, the misinformation. Genuinely so proud of you for getting out and for going no contact with a parent. I am in very limited contact with both my parents now and had to learn so much on my own because of how badly I was let down by my ‘education’
Omg I just heard you say the thing about ‘Catholicism is a religion, Christianity is a relationship’ thing I haven’t heard that in so so long
The Episcopal Church describes itself as "Protestant, yet Catholic". I've also heard it described as "Catholic lite".
I've heard the Episcopalians called "Catholics who read the bible." Politically, verrry different, but a High Anglican service feels extremely Catholic. My mom's into it, but we were raised UCC.
Yeah we left the Catholic Church for the Episcopalian Church when I was a kid, because my family was sick of the Catholic Church hierarchy but wanted something similar. We called it Catholic-lite.
@@montananerd8244 My mom’s church is a UCC church, for which I am grateful. A relaxed environment and no judgement when I opted out of going (for an unknown reason my dad made us go for a while, probably for a “that’s what you’re supposed to do” reason, as my dad is not religious as far as I am aware).
Henri VIII would be proud.
/s.
🙃
I’ve heard that Episcopalian and UCC are two of the best churches to join if you’re queer (as in they don’t allow homophobia and they don’t do the kind of surface level fake allyship stuff that’s common in some churches), was that true for the one you went to?
Just a random heads up, I recently learned that Monster sues creatives for trademark infringement if they use the word “Monster(s)” or even the letter M. They have sued hundreds of companies, with the most recent being
indie game developer Glowstick Entertainment. Probably not the type of company you’d want to work with anyway, so count your blessings 😅
Monster is poison. Get off of it. Make yourself a nice cup of coffee, as strong as you want.
I don't know if anyone will relate to this, but hopefully someone does or finds it worthwhile.
I find ex-fundie content really interesting because although I wasn't raised religious, my mom and step dad are hard-core into conspiracy theories and it almost felt like losing a religion once I went to college, moved out, and figured out my whole worldview was wrong and terrifying. I know it's different, because my deconstruction didn't really include Christianity, but there were other things: finding out vaccines don't cause autism, that the microwave and certain foods actually won't kill me (yeah, big mystery on why I had an eating disorder), mental illness (i learned basically that you just need to go outside and choose not to be depressed anymore and that medication is evil 🙄), and so much more. Years later I still found myself questioning things i believed, having to look them up and figure out what was true or not.
Educated by Tara Westover was referenced in the video, and I love that book and related to a lot of it. Although she was homeschooled and raised Mormon, her dad has similar beliefs to my parents when it comes to the government and medical institutions. It's comforting to know I'm not alone and that I'm valid in feeling hurt by my parents' actions and beliefs even though they were just doing what they thought was best.
You were similarly isolated. Sending you lots of love.
Thank you for sharing your experiences and insight, Rachel. Some of them were horrifying to hear, especially with what that principal did to you and your classmates and how he ran the school. Absolutely monstrous.
I do have a few questions of my own regarding fundie upbringing, but I don’t know if it’ll be appropriate now given the QA has already passed.
Ask away! I’m happy to answer
@@ReadswithRachel Thank you for the opportunity, Rachel. I shared my question in your Discord a few days ago. It was the one asking if fundie culture and upbringing sets up fundies for failure.
timestamps for specific sections & questions
0:30 Rachel’s background & experience in fundamentalist christianity
3:08 how was creationism vs evolution treated at school/home?
8:08 how sheltered was your upbringing ie the level of control/ access to information?
10:08 at what point did you realize [your sect of christianity] was fundamentalist?
10:33 how did you get out? did you lose relationships along the way?
12:43 what was the thing that scared you the most growing up?
13:02 weirdest thing you found out wasn’t true upon leaving?
13:22 what made you decide to leave?
14:40 how did fundie teaching on sec impact your relationship with your husband?
16:11 how did [fundies] talk about other christian sects?
17:00 what was the turning point that made you start to question? was it gradual?
17:39 how was/is halloween perceived?
18:57 did you ever learn about big gaps in your education/knowledge after you left?
19:39 were there any odd healthcare-related beliefs?
20:44 given how you feel about plot, what were some of the adult responses you got to pointing out plot holes in the bible?
21:19 what were the basic - or even detailed - gender ideals that you were taught?
23:00 during your time in religion, was there any “breaking the veil” moment where the curtain slipped for a bit?
25:56 are there usually POC (people of color) within the community?
26:27 thoughts on hobby lobby?
26:33 your fundie clothing style?
27:12 how did your parents get into [fundamentalism]?
28:21 what happens if someone goes against the grain/leaves the community? what about social media?
29:40 do you ever get flashbacks?
(continued in replies)
Bless you
timestamps continued
30:45 was there a time you had to come out as not wanting to be a part of [fundamentalism] to your friends and family?
32:26 what’s been the hardest thing to deconstruct?
33:13 did you have anxieties about becoming a parent because of that upbringing? what’s been the hardest part to unlearn?
33:56 did they ever say “we put the ‘fun’ in Fundamentalism”?
34:06 what were birthdays like?
34:25 did they look down on other fundie sects?
34:33 did they disagree with jehovah’s witnesses?
34:47 what did they think of atheists?
35:21 what’s the weirdest fact you were taught that wasn’t religious?
35:34 what’s the weirdest fact you believed?
36:39 did you/have you ever seen a Passion play? (plays where they reenact jesus’ crucifixion)
38:48 what kind of horrors went on in that cult-like fundamentalist life you were in?
38:56 did you feel ashamed for being pansexual/queer?
39:44 was there anything specific taught in regards to Jews? (tw antisemitism)
41:02 did your teachers/family/church leaders try to demonize other forms of christianity?
41:24 what exactly is christian fundamentalism?
42:00 do you still get by slandered by others because you left the church?
42:04 how’s your relationship with your parents now?
42:36 outlooks on other forms of christianity, especially the more progressive sects?
43:01 what made you realize [fundamentalism] was not for you?
43:05 what was the first thing that you actively unlearned?
43:23 any connections to the quiverful movement/ati/bill gothard?
43:52 what was the moment of clarity when you were able to see through the “fundie fog”?
44:25 book recs “the year of the witching” by alexis henderson ; “the grace year” by kim liggett
44:37 what kinds of punishments were common (ie corporal punishment) and how was it decided when a line was crossed?
44:59 what are your current views on religion? what are some things that have helped you unlearn fundie views?
45:54 do you recommend trying to discuss the logical [fallacies] in fundie christian or deeply christian people who refuse to think critically about how their views might harm others?
46:52 when did you figure out [fundamentalism] was weird?
47:10 what were you taught to do with stuff that didn’t make sense? was it like “the shelf” in mormonism?
47:23 how did your church discuss the topic of SA [s*xual assa*lt]?
47:36 what was the fundie holiday experience?
47:45 what were jesus camps like?
48:19 have you been to things like the giant noah’s ark they built in the midwest? christian theme parks? christian concerts?
49:07 what are some fundie phrases that aren’t used outside of fundie circles?
52:35 did you ever feel comfort in the certainty of being “right”? [personal note: i believe this person was asking about how fundamentalist christians constantly preach that their sect of christianity is the only “right” way to heaven. in my experience i was taught that while the more radical evangelicalism/fundamentalism was “right” as an institution - and that we were to publicly share that we’re right - each individual person was *deeply flawed* and trying to avoid sinning/being wrong in every single decision you made. so outwardly you had to appear confident in your rightness but internally you were always worried that some part of you was wrong]
53:12 views on other religions, ie islam, paganism, judaism?
53:25 do you think [fundamentalists] truly believe in the bible, or do you think they just need something to lift themselves up/ feel superior to others?
53:42 what did sunday dinner look like?
53:56 any specific food traditions?
54:14 were holidays different [when you were in fundieland] vs how they are now?
55:02 tangential topic: private christian school curriculum
end of video!
@@ReadswithRachel you’re welcome! typing this out scratched an itch in my brain lol
As a Jew, who also has conflicting thoughts about her own religion, I want to take a moment to say thank you. For so much of this.
Not to mention, I’ve got in-law stuff. I totally understand about boundaries and when lines are crossed. ESPECIALLY when it comes to our child.
Also, you, Carlos and and the kids are welcome at either or both of our Seder’s next year! 🫶🏻
Etiquette class! My Sunday middle school had homework for the girls and leadership class for the boys, which was basically them running around in the gym and then afterwords stealing and eating the things that we baked. And not getting in trouble for this bad behavior… What great leader ship!
Thank you for such an honest and vulnerable video, Rachel! It's wild to me that your mother thought Catholicism was "religious" vs fundamentalism because I grew up Irish Catholic, and we were taught the opposite, that Catholicism was like chill and fundies were all essentially cults on the same level as the Warren Jeffs FDLS church. It was really fascinating to hear about your experience.
That hair cutting story is so creepy. Thank you for sharing all this. It's so great that you got out of Fundie land.
It makes my heart sad that some kids are never taught evolution. I’m studying human evolution and it is such an enriching and beautiful science. Like, understanding the natural processes that brought about the human species, all life even, and those processes are comprised of the interactions between the earths various systems????? systems that are intertwined in ways endlessly complex??????? Beautiful.
The amusement park in Orlando is called The Holy Land. I think it shut down within the last few years.
Thank you for sharing! I learned a lot about Fundie beliefs. Being raised Catholic, I thought Fundie beliefs were (mostly) a more extreme version of what I learned. Now I understand that there are drastic differences. Also, your reaction to your Mom offering to take your kids to a “Seder” had me laughing.
The Proverbs 31 thing is fascinating to me - in my sect of Judaism, it's common for men to sing that (in Hebrew) to their wives on Friday night as a way of singing her praises and showing appreciation.
This video is valuable to me. I have to know what rabbit hole my 60 plus year parents are falling into
Ugh Ro I am so sorry this is something you're dealing with my friend
@@ReadswithRachel 💜
I’ve never seen another former AOG kid talk about their experiences. Glad to know I’m not alone!
The complaint about idolatry while also having a pledge and worship of the King James Bible(KJV), gotta love the hypocrisy
Girl that nightmare you described of the rapture is INSANE. I had a dream about the "rapture" which was scary at the time but is way funnier in retrospect than yours (ethereal Jesus was T-posing in the sky, slowly coming closer). Those kinds of nightmares sound tough to deal with. Trying to be like, a person, after going through something but you really didn't go through anything cause it was a dream but you still felt all that so....
I didn’t grow up fundamentalist. In fact they advertised themself as a very progressive church and yet it’s shocking how much all of what you’re saying is exactly what I learned.They don’t seem so “progressive” now
As a fundie kid in the 80s, "progressive" meant you had an electric guitar or even *gasp* a drum kit as part of the worship band. Lol.
its so interesting comparing your fundie experience to my catholic school experience bc here catholic schools are basically just public schools that have a religion class and celebrate the christian holidays. i remember being in high school and seeing posters that were like "being gay is okay!" and celebrating diversity and stuff like that. I remember being taught that some people believe creationism and some people believe evolution and both were taught. There were teachers that were super religious and teachers that never spoke about religion at all, so it didnt feel like there was one right thing to believe. I remember one teacher being extremely pro life and another teacher being pretty anti cop, so there was definitely a range of beliefs among the teachers which felt more like "this is what one individual believes" rather than "this is what a Christian should believe". Also, because theyre public schools and not private schools we also had like a huge population of kids of other religions going to the high school just because it was closer or was considered a good school (that didnt happen so much in the elementary schools though). i always feel like my upbringing was like... DRASTICALLY different than other people who grew up in christian schools but im also kinda glad for it
A. Thank you for showing me no matter how far my pagan queer ass runs away from the church. I still reflexively say the Bible pledge when I hear the opening.
B. In my old church there was this weird relationship with Judaism. On one hand the ancient Israelites were viewed as almost mythical, exalted beings. Our church had a shofar and we were encouraged to learn Hebrew.
On the other hand, modern Judaism was just behind catholicism in the absolute hatred it received.
I appreciate you talking about your experiences, but that one stood out as something that ex fundies don't talk about enough.
Oh man, the "god is good, all the time!" part just gave me war flashbacks. Totally forgot about that until just now. I grew up AoG and had very similar experiences although I thankfully went to public school. All my friends thought my church was weird and I would just try to laugh it off.
God I was raised Catholic and in summer religion class they would have us chant “god is good, all the time and all the time, god is good”. Awful awful awful!!!
My church would do that chant after the closing prayer!
Former AoG kid, went to an AoG school from 7-9th grade. Worst years of my life. Prior to 7th grade, I was homeschooled with A Beka. Glad to know a lot of us had these experiences and came out thinking critically.
I was raised atheist after the age of 6. My parents took us to church when we were little because my grandparents harassed them about it. When I was 6 my parents took me out of school and homeschooled me because I was severely bullied by my teacher to the point I stopped eating all because I have ADHD and learned differently. The people in our church threw a fit that my dad was going to use secular curriculum (my parents were already moving away from religion as it was). One person in the church told me it was God's will for me to be bullied and I was going to Hell because I couldn't handle it. I was 6!
I clicked on this video out of sheer curiosity, as my sister is marrying into a fundie family. Thought it was so out of left field. This video opened my eyes to how much religious programming I received growing up; I never really thought there was much, but my mom absolutely passed on her religious trauma and now I have a LOT to unpack... thank you for speaking on these things
I didn't grow up fundie, but there are a lot of similarities between your religious upbringing and mine.
Not nearly as strict, but a lot of the shaming aspects and the "pray your problems away", and "all part of God's plan" stuff.
I have a genetic disease that in a roundabout way caused me to lose 90% of the vision in one eye when I was ~12, and I had several people do that lay hands on thing to pray for my vision to come back. And because it didn't I was told it was because *I* didn't have enough faith that it would.
Edit: Ive been to some of those Christain Rock festivals. 'Acquire the Fire' was the big one my youth group went to every year. We made a big thing out of it.
i grew up as a jehovah's witness, only left late last year and got officially disfellowshipped last month. i feel so much guilt over so much - jehovah is genuinely my biggest fear. it should never be that way
My fifteen year old goddaughter recently called the long-haired Jesus a catfish.😂
(We're both in the process of noping out of Catholicism, which is basically the default in our country)
Jesus *is* a catfish
I remember that when I was growing up, I was taught to recite the Pledge to the American flag, the Christian flag, and the Bible in VBS. Also that any other religion that isn't Christian is damned to Hell. And the part where the "God is good all the time!" phrase we say it at my church after the closing prayer!
I love the phrase "body is a temple" like it's meant to make me view my physical body as sacred or whatever when the human body is an architectural nightmare. If anything, my body is a temple dedicated to ice cream and fruit snacks.
Anyway, I really admire and respect the work you've done regarding, like, forging your own path and being invested in filling those gaps in your education. I know you've said in prior videos that you're dumb or stuff along those lines and I totally disagree! You're consistently funny, frank, and thoughtful in what you put out onto the internet. Having a lack of factual knowledge, especially knowledge you were barred from, isn't what makes a person dumb. It's the willful ignorance that really prevents growth, or not wanting to ever explore topics that are unfamiliar. I think a lot of people are afraid of being wrong or not knowing, and that sort of hinders them, you know?
This comment is long enough as it is, but how you address big/difficult topics like race or religion is very authentic. I've never once gotten the impression that you just parrot whatever discourse is popular, like what I've seen other folks on social platforms do, without knowing why certain things are said. But you've listened; you understand. Being able and open to do that makes you so much smarter than a lot of people who've had a more comprehensive or formal education.
I remember as a kid sitting by the playground fence wondering if it was all just a bunch of fairy tales
Grew up Catholic and went to a school run by Opus Dei... seriously relate to believing out of fear. Was taught about the second coming when I was like 8 and had nightmares for weeks. Coming to terms with the fact that it was fesr mongering is still something I struggle with.
only 9 minutes in and i relate so much. my grandma constantly says we’re under a spiritual attack, that me watching harry potter means i’m opening the door for evil (even though she enjoys old disney movies with witches and curses).
I was also fundie so I’m not sure I’ll be able to make it through this one but all the love and support for your deconstruction journey
Okay real question, is Anthony an athiest? 😂7:25
25:57 only poc I knew were adopted by white parents into the community.
29:55 I used to make rounds around my house after midnight to make sure that my family wasn’t raptured without me because I was terrified.
43:25 we were briefly quiverful and that was a nightmare as an ace afab
Wow. Currently deconstructing a lot of stuff and I feel like you're describing my whole childhood. The Christian school I went to for middle school made us stand on the front lawn (we were in the center of a town) and say the pledge of allegiance, the christian anthem, and the national anthem every Wednesday after 9/11 happened. So cringe. I don't have any questions, but kind nice to hear (in a weird way, although I wouldn't wish an upbringing of being fearful of hell or the apocalypse on anyone) that I'm not the only one. And I don't know why my family is surprised by my darker interests - like my ethically sourced bone jewelry/alt goth look is tame compared to reading a story series aimed towards kids about the rapture happening.
It’s so interesting to hear about fundies because growing up in a fairly traditionally Asian household I was always taught that religion and culture are ‘the mothers domain’, to the point that while my mom’s mixed race, my dad’s family were all fine with it because her mom is her Asian parent and thus in their eyes she was ‘culturally legitimate.’ There was this constant kind of want to achieve cultural legitimacy which is believed to be best achieved by the mom passing down her culture, and a not properly filial child is an issue of the mom seemingly not doing right, not the father, because the father’s not… all that involved in that way. And it extends to religion too. So it’s always so weird to hear about the fundie idea of the dad being the religious and cultural leader of the household because it’s just so different to what I was raised to believe.
I watched this video this morning while getting ready for work, and now I have to come back after work to tell you that I'm so angry because I've had "Diving In" stuck in my head all day!
As someone who had next to no religious upbringing, videos like these make me really thankful that my mom just wanted to give me freedom to determine my own beliefs.
Left behind movies definitely messed me up for a few days. I was in elementary school. I repeat, I was a very young child. Eventually, in junior high I ended up reading the kids books, which probably contributed to my fear of hell. A fear I still have despite being an atheist and having been one for close to 8 years
13:30 I was raised Mormon, and the older I got the more I started questioning. But the 3 or so miscarriages my mother went through, even as we were praying daily for a sibling, was the thing that made me go "yeah, this is bullshit" and stop believing. I was traumatized by the thought of going to hell that I had nightmares as a kid, that my parents completely ignore btw, and it still deeply bothers me sometimes.
Greg Locke is the guy that screams about witches btw.
Telltale/Owen Morgan covers cults and what’s different from fundie stuff (he’s mostly experienced with Jahova’s whitenesses but he touches on other stuff.)
On his “reads” channel he’s reading the new fundie/Christo fasism books that are out right now. It’s wild.
Greg Locke is also the guy who claimed that autistic people are demon possessed! I knew that it's BS!
I used to be Mormon. When you hear mormons talk about “the shelf” or “my shelf broke” they are referring to things that led them to question the church. We would hear or learn things that were contradictions in the church or (for me) my moral beliefs didn’t line up with the Mormon teachings, and kinda go “huh, I’ll put that on a metaphorical shelf to deal with later”. Eventually, that “shelf” gets heavy and can “break” and that is usually when people stop believing Mormon teachings. Love your videos, Rachel! It’s great to hear other people’s deconstruction stories and journeys. 😊
That play was called "Heavens gates, Hell's flames" in my church
yep! same exact play
@Reads with Rachel my mom played a "loose woman" that was dragged to hell. Pretty funny looking back at it!
It’s funny how against other denominations they always are, because I was raised Catholic and your experience is almost completely identical to mine lol.
"god is narcissist" was my earliest though that i had when it comes to leaving the faith i had, i relate to you so much in that sense. I've been through some stuff when i was a little kid that i can't excuse a 'god' that would be fine with the things that happened to me. I know im a flawed human but if even i have better morals than the supposed god i should believe then i don't like it. I guess knowing i was an atheist at the early age of 12 gives me a very different experience and look on life 🤔
I didn't necessarily grow up fundie, but my mom was very Christian and my step dad was very strict. I definitely grew up hoping I would die before I was 18 because I was told that was the cut off for kids to go to heaven and queer people go to hell just for existing, so I was definitely going to hell past 18. I definitely felt your fear of hell too, and it resurges at the weirdest times 😅 I hope you're healing from all of this 💛 I'm definitely trying to.
that must have been incredibly hard for you to put out on the internet, thank you so much for your honesty and vulnerability. Maintaining distance from family that can't understand how harmful fundamentalism is can be exhausting, but I applaud your strength and force of will for taking care of yourself and your family. You're awesome.
What is that quote “How many times have I told you Anthony? You are not an atheist.” 😂😂😂😂
I grew up Southern Baptist but "nondenominational" and we did the interpretive dance stuff.... but I'm noticing a *lot* of similarities to how you were brought up. I recently (within last few years, mostly after my mom passed) been questioning and yeah. I encourage my 11yo to make her own spiritual decisions.. I'm happy being a "heathen." Especially after being this close --> |_| to losing my 4yo last June. I screamed at all higher powers that day. It wasn't good (she's fine, she's here today and happy and mostly healthy). I can't fathom a god who willingly puts people, especially children, through SO much. I can't imagine that's his will.
It's so weird to hear that a lot of fundie jargon is the same as Mormon jargon. I grew up in (and am still a part of) a doubt-encouraging family/congregation, and I still get some of this stuff. Definitely makes you think and wonder.
Thank you for being so honest and vulnerable. I wouldn't be able to share this sort of stuff if I'd lived your life. You're strong.
My mom was raised catholic, had bad experiences with the culture at her church (and my grandpa was the Deacon-think that’s what it’s called-so she was pressured a lot to be a certain way because of her family’s “status”, and my grandparents were abusive in the name of religion) and despite her experiences, decided to have my brothers and I attend a Christian church because in her mind “the problem was the Catholic Church” 😑
Eventually she stopped forcing us to go because she herself wasn’t happy with the Christian churches available in our area and she didn’t want to travel. And it took a LONG time for me to stop feeling guilty for having sex before marriage, to stop being terrified that not baptizing my oldest son meant I was condemning his soul, and to stop believing my anxiety and depression was something I’ve done to myself and it could be “cured” if I would allow God into my life.
I don’t know if I could ever let my kids go to church even if they asked because the thought of church in general gives me so much anxiety. I’d have no problem answer their questions though.
thank you so much for this video rachel!! I too have walked away from the belief system I was raised in and am still in the midst of unlearning a lot and making peace with the way my family is.
honestly, this video made me realize that maybe my upbringing was more fundie-coded than I thought! (which is alarming, lol) I literally remember my dad saying the "well even the devil believes in Jesus so thats not enough" to me on the way home from church in high school, I had really buried that deep down lol.
😂 even the devil believes in Jesus. That's a good point, because I'm also moving away from religion, and part of my fear from religion is how do I know if I'm going to hell or not. It didn't make sense that they would say all you have to do is to believe in Jesus and sometimes they would say you also have to be not sinful.
Your quote is just another evidence I'll keep in the back of my mind how the rules of religion don't make sense and cause me great confusion and stress.
My dad got uncomfortable when I dressed as a witch for the first time as a child XD he isnt fundy but I guess dressing as someone in league with the devil was odd for him. He tried changing my mind a bit but i was seven and just thought witches and potions and cool dresses with black and purple were neat so he let me after too much fuss XD
I grew up Episcopalian which is definitely one of the most chill and progressive branches of Christianity but even I remember being a little kid and thinking to myself “I’m not so sure I believe in god” and then feeling really anxious and scared and trying to reason through it in my head like “well why does not believing in god scare you? Cause I think I’ll go to hell. Well if you believe in hell then you do believe in god.” And this was the logic I used to continue considering myself Christian throughout my childhood in a church that never even pushed the rhetoric of damnation. Like Episcopalians barely ever mention hell and yet I still felt like that as a kid. I can’t even begin to imagine what it’s like to grow up in a religion that actively tells you you’re going to hell and weaponizes that fear to control you.
For anyone dealing with trying to unpack problematic fundie beliefs or fringe spirituality, I really like the podcast Oh No Ross and Carrie. They basically do investigations into certain fringe groups or practices, recently they did a multi-part series on the Arc theme park thats in Utah? (Idk what state, I’m not American)
The Ark Encounter is in Kentucky! I love ONRAC :)
I’m from Bradenton originally and when you said “Clearwater, FL” my brain immediately snapped into focus about local churches.
Oh hi! I have family in Bradenton and we actually used to attend church in Sarasota for a while when I was a kid.
@@ReadswithRachel I attended church in Sarasota, and by that I mean visiting the Jungle Gardens and seeing "Attitude" the alligator.
Hi Rachel, thank you for sharing your story. From the bottom of my heart, I am sorry for what happened to you. Especially how you were made to feel unwelcome by your mother and her husband. Thank you for prioritising your boys' well-being. Sending you love.
This was such an eye opening vid for someone who was raised somewhat agnostic/spiritual (my mom is agnostic and my dad is Pomo so light spirituality has been around me ever since I was a kid) - I’m so glad you turned out an intelligent person with a good head on your shoulders in spite of everything you had to go through (I hope that doesn’t sound presumptuous lol)!
I, too, didn’t finish 7th grade homeschooling. I went back to public school and basically whoopsied my way back into 8th grade.
I think for Liz Baker, she needed one on one schooling and that's fine. Homeschooling doesn't work for someone like me who likes the challenge of pseudo competing with others. I say pseudo because it was in my mind, I was not in class roaring about how much better my scores were. In fact I was and still am shy/embarrassed over doing well in school over others. But I think her school was probably underfunded as many are and she needed attention from educators and being in education myself I know it's very hard for teachers who don't have enough support from their superiors to be able to give one on one assistance. It's nice that she thrived under the personal contact that she needed but MANY homeschool curricula are very much lacking in what most of us would consider basic education/knowledge. It's why many of us are fighting so hard to stop book removals and nonsense about "CRT" because it IS almost taking our knowledge down to those flawed fundie religious curricula. As a nation we were already behind others, these new laws too many red states want to do will set our students further back than before.
Oh my goodness I am so sorry that you had to go through that.
And I only just released my first boyfriend was a fundi, I was twenty years old and he was thirty nine, he was very mentally abusive and told me that the first time we had sex, my first ever time, was evil and we needed to be better people. That was just the smallest thing he did. I am still dealing with the some of the trauma.
Thank you for the insight, it really did help.
This was crazy! Listening to you talk I realised I grew up in a fundie house 😂 I’m glad they didn’t get the chance to send me to a fundie school (I don’t think we have these sort of schools in my country). I thought they were just religious because it’s something I’m used to. It’s funny to hear you say all the jargons and know exactly what they are. I never really fit into the church’s expectation but fudge, I had the same fears about hell and not being good enough to go to heaven. Screw that now 😂. Loved the video, thank you for this!
Wowww the health one is so true !! I also grew up Fundie and my dad refused mental health services such as a therapist or a psychologist because he said they were from the Devil. Also my family tried to heal my cousins blindness by laying hands on her and praying over here
Thank you for sharing your experiences. And I'm delighted by the excellent discourse in the comments. My parents were fundie from the jump. They bought into the james dobson *spits to get that foul name out of my mouth* philosophy of "beat the humanity out of your children, and neglect them the rest of the time". I don't believe in hell but I do believe there's a special place in hell for that monster of a human. Thankfully, To Raise Up A Child hadn't been released yet or we would have gotten even worse abuse.
My childhood was full of neglect and trauma. And all of it *because* of Christianity. My dad was even a Nazarene pastor for a while. I was so full of fear and so repressed that even now at 46 I'm just barely coming to terms with myself outside the framework of fear and self hatred beaten into me as a kid. Being told your whole life that you're not good enough leaves a mark on the psyche. I got married at 23, just like my parents, and wow was that a mistake. I stayed 22 years in a loveless marriage with an emotionally abusive spouse. I stayed because, based on my upbringing in fundie land, I had the notion that all married couples were always miserable to some degree. Like, being miserable was part of being married. And then you just stayed in the stew of misery until one or the other died.
We didn't have a TV, to "protect" us kids from the "evils" of the world. Never mind that my parents were always talking about the fun TV they watched as kids. Effing hypocrites. What not having a TV really did was isolate my siblings and I from our peer groups. I believe this is by design. By keeping kids isolated like this, they will be unable to really function in the world. The only place that is then "safe" is the church, which keeps them tithing. It's a vile practice.
I'm NC with my biological family except my dad. He's apologized, and I believe him, because his behavior has changed for the better. He told me his deepest regret is he put the church before his family.
I never had any formal sex education. For one, per my churches, sex was shameful and gross. We moved so often, too (like, every 8 months on average between 1984 and 1991), that a lot of my education in general slipped through the cracks. The only information I learned about sex (or puberty, for that matter) came from a book I stumbled across in a public library.
Even after I left the church at 19 or so, I was still locked in the prison of black-and-white thinking that fundamentalism forces. And the guilt and the shame that still bubble up is awful. I'm still there in a lot of ways, even after years of therapy. My life has been so limited by the bullshit beaten into me. It is my sincere hope that all organized religions will be ground into the dust of history and we all can lead authentic lives. It won't happen, alas, because those organizations are more powerful and insidious than any of us, but I can dream.
I grew up in a fairly liberal church in the CA bay area, but my experiences with what I've come to call my mom's "Fox News American Brand Christianity" is strikingly similar to a lot of what you discuss here. (My mom got me Brio magazine, she went to my public middle school and yelled at my biology teacher for not teaching creationism, when I was in preschool she told me my jewish best friend would go to hell if she didn't accept jesus, etc, etc) Christianity itself I don't necessarily have a lot of specific trauma with (though i am very much agnostic), but its the skewed reality I got from being raised and loved by someone who instilled all this deep internalized misogyny and bizarre, thinly veiled white supremacy and homophobia/transphobia in me after years of being forced to listen to Rush Limbaugh and shit like that....oof. and with the way conservative america is these days, the line between her faith and her politics is more twisted than ever. it's heartbreaking, to be honest, despite all the bitterness I feel towards her for all the manipulation and brainwashing i've had to unlearn and recover from, especially as a bisexual person with a weird relationship with womanhood. anyway, that was rambly but thanks for making this and being so open about your experiences!!
I understand how difficult it is to talk about these things, I grew up in and around a cult, it has a lot of Christian elements though it was one of those "it's it's own thing" types.
I appreciate you talking about your experience, the more people know what fundie groups and cults are like, the less people will act like they're incredibly rare and the more they'll know what to look for.
I once did an Easter egg hunt at church where each egg had part of the Easter story in it! I found the empty egg and I was very disappointed because I didn't understand the metaphor because I was like 3.
Oh boy... that Christian flag pledge unlocked a memory for me. I had to do that when I was in Christian schools in the U.S. It's not really a thing in Canada (as far as I know), we don't pledge the Canadian flag, so it doesn't translate as well.
I feel all of this. I was fundie/fundie adjacent most of my life and finally escaped in my late-20s. The brainwashing was intense, it took me that long to get out.
Also, fun fact - the HQ of the Ravi Zacharias Ministries was located on the ground floor of the Canadian Broadcasting Company building (our national public broadcaster - similar to BBC and NPR). Grossed me out every time I had to walk by it when I worked there.
Pledge to the flag is super American thing. Other countries don't do that
I remember talking to a friend of mine who's a Christian, and he told me that no one can drive away potential believers more than Christians can. I think he's right when he says that. I grew up as a non-denominational Christian, and I generally have had good experiences in the church, and have cultivated long time friendships with people from that time. But I have also seen how even committed believers can misconstrue what Jesus said and view Christianity as a list of rules you have to follow in order to get to heaven. In other words, I can understand your frustrations with fundies and it's a lot of frustrations that I've run into as well.
I wouldn't say that I am a religious man now, but I call myself someone who is constantly seeking a relationship with God. I do think Christianity is a religion that has the power to spread good to the world, but it's populated with all too human failings, and people making the same mistakes that the religious leaders in The Bible made. I much rather attempt to convey the love and compassion of Jesus rather than making people follow rules.
Anyway, that's my tea.
Thank you for the video, and sharing your experiences! It’s wild how similar they are to what I heard/saw going to a Methodist church growing up! In your next Q&A, if it isn’t too personal, could you talk a little about your approach to motherhood? How you talk to your kids about religion, how you tell them about what you grew up with?
Thank you so much, this was so informative. I was raised a Christian, but very loosely, my mum's great and doesn't mind what we choose to believe, dad's atheist, but I did grow up around some extreme Christians, especially baptism. Many things you describe were similar, although of course not everything. I can not imagine being raised in fear.
33:03 once when i was in first grade a kid made a dorama for class with some of their toys. After the whole presentation was done the dorama was thrown into a corner. I saw that it had a horse toy glued to it and at that time i really really liked horses so i took it home. FOR YEARS THAT THING HUNTED ME AND MADE ME THINK THAT I WAS GOING TO HELL JUST BECAUSE I TOOK HOME A FORGOTTEN TOY.
Hi Rachel! I love your videos, and appreciate you covering this, as I grew up what I like to call "fundie adjacent" (it's complicated...when is it not with fundies? lol). I have so many thoughts and questions, but I really just came here to say that I can't stop laughing at the caption in your yearbook at 7:34: "How many times have I told you Anthony? You are not an atheist." like wut lmao💀
31:30 oh, there's something like that for catholics too, kind of like a specific type of church function where you go there just for this. My mom actually joked about how she was going to all functions during the week for this one very difficult period of her life, and the priest told her she was supposed to put her worries in chirst and LEAVE IT THERE, not take it back with her on the way home. But there were a lot of worries!! She just wanted an hour to calm down a little!
the short hair thing is interesting to me. how did they teach Samson?
As someone who was raised Catholic I find fundie disdain for them HILARIOUS. I knew the jokes that Catholics were the most 'metal' because we were the only ones who genuinely believed that the bread/wine at mass was being turned into the ACTUAL body and blood of Christ, but I never knew that revering saints and Mary was considered radical by other Christians 🤣
Edit: Hold up your mom was CATHOLIC and ran away from it TO Fundie-land?!?!? Holy sheesh. Like I get feeling like your relationship with God is toxic the way Catholicism teaches it (similar to your experience of fearing hell and retribution all smothered by this message of 'a loving God' but less extreme in practice) but I cannot understand your mom's logic in thinking this lifestyle you were raised in is somehow BETTER
I tell people I'm so lapsed as a catholic I have dirt in my hair. Gets me out of a lot of pushy/bullying conversations.
8:07 omg thank you for answering my question! I went to a public school and we had a lot of higher level classes and my parents aren't really religious so I wondered how different it is compared to my upbringing where my parents very much encouraged learning. I'm so glad you've been able to get out of that doomsday "we're under attack" mindset/lifestyle and I hoped that you've been able to adapt alright
The Christian Flag prayer, the Bible prayer, and the song you sang sent me back to Vacation Bible School at my church as a kid. We didn't go to church much at all growing up but I wasn't allowed to listen to secular/pop music until Junior High and we only ever listened to Christian rock. Makes me wonder if that is an overall religious thing or if my church had some fundie ideals I never recognized.
Now, I pretty much subscribe to something similar to Franklin's Watch-Maker theory, where if there is a god who set everything in motion, they are only an observer. Emotionally manipulative parents (one who is also a narcissistic alcoholic at that) pretty much convinced me that if a god exists, they don't exactly get their hands dirty no matter how much you pray.
Thank you for opening up about this, Rachel. Its not something that's easy to talk about, but hearing you unpack all of this with your audience is extremely inspiring.
Holy crap, when you mentioned your nightmare about the sun exploding...I still have that nightmare sometimes. Everyone else has been taken up already, and I'm left behind watching the sun explode, knowing I only have a few minutes left... I'm so sorry you have that kind of nightmare, it's so awful and really hard to recover from the next day 💔
I thought only the Fundies had Rapture dreams! I remember one woman, who was a Fundie, claimed that she had a Rapture dream except that she was the one that was taken up!
@@melissacooper8724 while I'm not technically Fundie, I did grow up pretty religious. The religious trauma hangs on hard 🥴
oh holy cow i think i went to a fundie church as a kid. my family was never strict(my mom raised me pagan) but my aunt kept pestering us about going to her church and a LOT of this stuff happened at my church. that's crazy cus i'm jewish now lmao
I also grew up fundie, its really scary manipulative stuff looking back.
I don't understand how its legal to leave so much out of education. Is there no standard curriculum there?
There is no standard curriculum on the national level, and private schools are allowed to essentially self regulate.
@@ReadswithRachel wow. This is wild to me (I'm from New Zealand, it's standardised here) it kind of explains a lot though. Thanks for answering!
Oh god the BJU textbooks. I know a family who homeschools with those and happened to look through one of their English Lit textbooks out of curiosity (how different was it from my public school curriculum was my main question), and at first I was impressed that a lot of the story excerpts were things that I'd read in class at a similar age/grade level. Then I looked closer and one of the first stories in the book was an indigenous creation story (unfortunately I don't remember which one) with a set of questions at the end basically asking where in the bible this story was disproven. Keeping a straight face and flipping to another page was a Struggle.
I'm really glad you were able to pull yourself out of fundamentalism. I don't need to tell you how strongly those beliefs have a hold on people. You should really give yourself props for being able to see through the bullshit, particularly that all the fear and guilt you're "supposed" to have. That's hard shit to confront.
I remember double thinking whenever i had access to any geology or biology documentaries. It was so weird. I didnt disbeleive it, but i would defend creationism even when my parents weren't around. Selv preservation knee jerk reaction
As someone who grew up Lutheran several things hit lmao. Especially the Cain and Abel thing. I do remember asking like… what??? And a response I got was there were probably other clans and people made that just didn’t get recorded… (from the sounds of it I had a relatively lax school compared to yours) I genuinely didn’t know evolutionist wasn’t a common term… Oop. But yeah about the sewing being an elective we had something like that only available for younger kids.
My church didn’t shy away from it lol I remember thinking why God would make people resort to incest and being embarrassed that we had to believe that for a certain period of time incest was ok ☠️