Growing Up Quiverfull - The Duggar's Destructive Cult
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- Опубликовано: 24 ноя 2015
- An interview with cult survivor Kristiana Miner about her involvement in the Quiverfull movement, Bill Gothard's destructive cult and the influence of Michael Pearl's sadistic methods of child training. Her childhood was an ordeal but her recovery has been amazing and she explains how it all happened here.
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Something I wish more Christian groups would understand about that proverb: Shepherds DO NOT hit their sheep with rods. They nudge them in the right direction, yank them out of danger, and fight off predators that threaten the sheep. That proverb is not saying you should beat children. It's saying you should protect them and guide them into knowing what's right and what's wrong.
seatbelttruck I love that
Excellent observation!
Actually the rod has 2 ends. Staff and hook. One was to hit the sheep and the other was to pull them back. Not that I am agreeing or disagreeing with the whole rod thing. Just letting you know that you're information about a Shepard's rod is inacurate.
Its true but back then it was a practice and actually when it was done the right way it does work I know a women who has 8 kids and they smart and independent and respectful, she said they get spank in private but rarely it would have to be something very bad like a tantrum at 5 years old or an 8 yr old running acros the street when shes not angry but she spends alot of time teaching them so I dont condem spanking when its done the right way.
Mrs. Marie i think whats she saying is that the rod/staff was used to ‘nudge’ not hit or cause pain, not that the staff part of it didn’t exist?
One thing that she said which is kind of the scariest part of it all is how she was so isolated she had nothing to measure her experience against to even know what was considered "normal." That is utterly terrifying for a child (in any situation) to not be able to reach out to anyone at all when being abused because they have no idea it isn't normal.
+kaylaflava: So true! Children DON'T know it's not normal because they've never experienced anything else! I didn't know my parents were alcoholics until I was a junior in high school when I happened to mention to my best friend that my parents drank and got drunk every night!! I thought everybody's parents did that! She told me her parents didn't do that! I was shocked!! 😄. I still don't call my parents after 5 b/c they'll be drunk & not make any sense on the phone. My point is, I get it!
kaylaflava I know exactly what she is talking about by not knowing what was normal parental behavior in the home. I am 20 years old now and I'm starting to see the neglect and abuse that has been going on in my family my entire life! (It's a good thing we have Internet access now.)
Growing up, I was completely isolated from the world and kept hidden because of my parents fundamentalist religious beliefs and paranoia [ie. overly protective and fearful of getting into trouble with the law... ect.]) And I have never been allowed to hardly talk to people or make friends because of it.
How I found out that something wasn't quite right with my family was when I stayed with my friend's family for the weekend (After pleading with my dad to let me go) last September. My friend's little toddler had hurt her foot from stepping on something the day before. What opened my eyes was while I observed how lovingly they cared for their little girl and took care of her little foot brought me to tears. I saw for the first time that normal parents actually care for their children and not neglect them when they get hurt and punishing and verbally abusing them into strict obedience like I saw happening in my house.
Being the oldest of 13 kids, I have had to take on a lot of responsibility for the care of all of my younger brothers and sisters. I have to cook, clean, change diapers, potty train, take care of all of the animals [ie. goats, chickens, and cow] take care of the kids when their sick or hurt as well as try to get an education from home. I have had to do so much that my little brothers started calling me Mommy Nesa for a while.
What I am finding out now is that this is how my parents where raised and they were given a bad example by their parents. It's sad really that so many of us have to go through this kind of stuff. My hope is to try to learn how to put an end to the cycle and find a better way of living.
Vanissa Berg I wish you so much luck. Knowing the problem is the first step.
Wow. That sounds...crazy but all too familiar. I'm the oldest too but my family is nowhere as big as yours. I'm sorry you have so much on your shoulders. You have/had a right to be a kid, and part of that is being carefree and trusting that you'll be looked after. I know that's a foreign feeling for a lot of oldest children in these cults (especially oldest girls).
Are you doing okay? Feel free to message me if you like. Have you read the Recovering Grace website? It was so helpful for me in getting some perspective on all the Gothard craziness and trying to extract my brain from the madness!
I hope you get a break and some time to yourself soon! And some help with your education!
+Amy Blowers Thank you Amy Blowers. I'm doing alright for the most part.
My parents are fundamentalist Mormon (a.k.a. polygamist), which means that they believe in living the principal of plural marriage (ie. Multiple wives) that is part of their religion. We're taught that the father is the 'god head' of the house and if he gets a certain amount of wives sealed to him for time and all eternity, that will make him a 'god' in the afterlife and a creator of worlds while the women bare him children. -Sounds kinda crazy doesn't it? But that is their beliefs and I totally respect people's religious beliefs without discrimination so long as there is no harm in them, if you know what I mean.
The main problem with living with two or more moms is that there can be a huge jealousy problem between women who have to share the same husband. This creates a lot of problems in the home when one wife is having issues with the other woman, she'll take it out on the other wife's kids by yelling at or beating them for no apparent reason. :-(
I remember being slammed in the face and my nose bloodied by my other mom because she just snapped one day. All I remember is that I was feeling sad and depressed that day and I didn't understand why I was being hit and yelled at. I now know why she did that after she gave me an apology years later for all the things that she did and said to me and my little brothers and sisters. She said it was she was feeling a little bit jealous of my mom and was struggling with pent up emotions. My mom has said the same things to me about her sister wife. So it goes both ways for them both.
Because of being in isolation from the world for so long, I was not able to reach out and talk to anyone about it. We've been kept in a box for so long, I didn't even know that there was such a thing as child and human rights and stuff. My siblings an I are all home schooled and were not allowed to get a education from a regular public school or anything. I feel so bad that my 19 year old brother is so far behind. :-(
Vanissa
If your approach to parenting is “breaking a child’s will” they will never truly love you. That is only a relationship of authority and terror - What a tragedy.
It's one of the saddest thing I have ever heard of. 😢
I quit watching TLC (and so did my adult siblings) when they glorified the sick, deranged, Duggar family! 😡😡😡
It really is disgusting how these people act
If you raise your children to unquestionably obey authority, you are raising them to be exploited. Someone in a position of power will see that weakness and abuse it.
"I was just following orders" is unacceptable in my home too.
It's funny you say that because my household was very strict growing up and as a young adult I have a very hard time turning people down- when they ask me to do things even if I really don't want to do it I just hate the guilt of saying no and it has got me into some very unhappy situations. Wont be raising my kids this way
EXACTLY. These cults train people to be victims in order to control them through religion. It's disgusting.
Isn’t that what Democrats are doing in universities?
@@SalteeChick Are you implying Universities teach students only to follow authority without questioning it, or that Democrats are somehow poisoning students minds through education? Either one sounds ridiculous.
Thank you so much for making this video! I was involved with a "quiverfull" group in the 1980's in Montana. I was a single mom, and they had chosen one of the men to be my husband. I didn't marry him, and when they insisted that I abuse my child, I left the group. It was gut-wrenching and scary to leave, but even more-so to stay. It's been over 30 years now, and I can tell you that, without a doubt, I am thankful every day that I got out when I did.
Well done. What a nightmare.
As a child, I heard that from my own dad, that if we didn’t stop crying, he’d give us something to cry about. I have had severe depression my entire life and have always had a hard time asking for any help because you’re always supposed to just “suck it up” and deal with it on your own.
I'm sorry you went through that. My parents had a similar approach to parenthood. Hope you're now surrounded by people who love you and support you.
this was the way my childhood was. My parents are still this way. You figure it out on your own. It is really hard not having anyone to turn too and ask questions. It is nice to know I'm not alone in that way of life.
Very impressed with this young woman. She has grace, composure and courage. She's probably saved some lives. Excellent video interview.
If you have to beat someone to get their respect, maybe you're not worthy of respect.
Not maybe! You ARENT! lol
If you have to beat someone into respecting you, you're mistaking respect for FEAR.
yep. seems legit.
My mother had the idea that she needed to beat and bully us into respecting her. What actually happened was we all grew up to resent and distrust her and made us want to get out as soon as we could.
mountaingal homemaker that's sociopath in the video isn't spanking he is beating with a rod. If you think hitting a baby that is coerced off a blanket is ok 👌🏼 pray you don't have kids.
"Psychological terror is more effective than the pain"
Omg they're monsters
You could practically see the boner on him.
Don't have to be part of this group to go through this
@@freyaaldrnari6086 true!
take a gander at any public school. You wanna see monsters look at ARlington Tx the other day. Or thousands of other public institutions where the kids never heard the word no.
@@luh962 he axtually said it is better to enjoy hitting the child. Psychopath.
This came out of my recommendeds. I knew Kristiana in college and even met her parents and siblings during one of our events at school. They looked happy and very proud of her. Little did I know the horror that was happening at home and I’m glad she got out and listened to her heart. So proud of you, K.
Michael Pearl’s wife wrote a book on marriage that created a real problem in my marriage and I had to leave. My husband thought he was my overlord and entitled to abuse me
I became abused to the point that I had to have to interventions including my doctor to get me out of that marraige.
I'm not surprised because so much of the time when there's issues in marriages they look at the wife as if "it's your issue because you aren't submitting enough" they never talked of what the man was meant to do (as far as actual Bible terms) the sadness of it is a lot of that is still alive in churches.
thats a real shame :(
@@Girlovergirl She cant easily get away can she?
That's horrible... Hope you're in a better place now❤
I’m in tears listening to this interview. I was raised in this environment. I was homeschooled all 12 years in a severely strict Christian curriculum. As young women, we had to be covered from the collarbone to the ankle. We had to stand in a certain way, smile, and be “seen and not heard.” I was also the oldest, so I had to be the perfect example for my younger sisters.
We were also disciplined this way. We had an “if then chart.” We would read the verse that matched our behavior, read the number of hits as punishment, and then bend over and be beaten with a sawed in half oar.
I don’t even want to get into all the ridiculous courtship rituals. Luckily, I was able to break free from all of that in college. My parents have since seen the errors of our past; but instead of admitting this culture was abusive, they are trying to rewrite the past and remember things differently.
I’m still working through it myself, but I applaud that this interview took place. This shit is real for so many people, and it needs to be exposed for the abuse that it is.
I am so sorry you had to experience that as a child. I'm very glad you got away.
That's so horrible! I empathize, because I was in a cult too.
And you survived. You are a strong woman and survived it all. Warrior woman!!!
It's going to be between YOU & GOD soon enough.
Chelsea Lehnea ❤️
She is so poised, and expresses herself beautifully. It takes a lot of strength to discuss the things she's experienced without being overcome with emotion. I wish her the best.
Agreed. So brave.
Its called being "groomed "
Wonderful Example, this family, I am jealous of all they can become. All the wonderful possibilities when raised in a strong home.
Yes! Exactly. I grew up in Texas in the 70s, and I thought I had seen it all. This is beyond what I thought I knew about fundamentalism and child abuse. How she became so self-possessed must be a story unto itself.
I'm concerned that her poise is something she's learned to do to avoid inviting scrutiny and subsequent abuse. When I was inpatient there were some girls who were ALWAYS smiling, no matter what they said or what horrible thing they were talking about in group therapy. And they had a similar soothing way of talking. I'm not saying it's pathological or she needs to be in treatment for it, just that it *CAN* be traumatically ingrained in someone.
Holy crap. This is my life. I'm so thankful you got out. I did, too. It's crazy to look back and realize how wrong and how incredibly traumatic it all is
Shes beautiful and intelligent but you can tell she's haunted by her childhood.
this is why more americans need to protect each other
I think that you would be as well if for one you were able to get away… From there having to start over when it comes to learning!!! Not much will be able to be taken to the world for the cult!!!
It always creeped me out that Gothard never had his own family but set him self up as a child and family ministry. Plus he is just creepy.
Exactly. He's a sick pervert
Is he the preacher that touched abuch of young ladies? There is one the Duggar’s follow that had a fall from grace I know for sure there’s just a lot of Bills out there lol
Hen Sitter catholic priests and Christian ministers..... huge lot of molesters! 😡
@@elainemarie8725 yes, then he claims he only played footsies with them...
@@ch2821 only some priests and ministers are paedophiles, by no means all of them!
The majority are clean and good people.
There are many more paedophiles outside of the churches as well - Hollywood is a classic example.
Millions of them around the world are not anywhere near any form of Christianity.
Sadly, a number of paedophiles choose to hide within any organization that cares for children. Scouts etc come to mind as well.
Growing up Gothard....worst years of my life. 43 years old, and the grips of this cult still has it’s ugly fingers in my life today. Takes a lifetime to overcome brainwashing. So happy for this gal and all those who free ourselves!!! 😊❤️☺️👍
I'm sorry what you had to go through.
if you need support join Former Fundamentalists on facebook! There are some great support groups, trust me
I was in a southern Baptist church where the preacher got us involved with Bill Gothard and the Institute of Basic Life Principles. We were encouraged to attend the seminar every year and sit there for a week to listen to the exact same seminar where Bill Gothard would spew his version of what it took to be "Godly". Things like even if your parents weren't involved in church and told you they didnt like your boyfriend, you can't marry him. Also, corporal punishment is very godly and you have to do it or you will have heathen children. Also be careful with what music you hear because it could introduce demons into your life. The whole thing was crazy!!!!
I can relate, being in a cult myself. I have PTSD from my experience
Skye ID I’m so sorry you went through that I
Absolutely incredible. It's so important to attach a real person to the abuse that these cults perpetrate. Amazing of Kristiana to share that part of her past.
The video clips of Michael Pearl are just chilling.
I just rewatched this interview, two years later, after watching the news about Josh Duggar and saw how TLC is enabling this destructive behavior. I so appreciate you, Chris, for bringing attention to this huge problem.
So many of their shows mess with children, these Kids have no say in parents and organisations putting them on show, often has them also interacting with people on social media is very irresponsible. Where is the Govt with regulations, they wont let swearing on TV shows yet will normalise people like Duggar's making women and kids submit, Abby Lee Miller being a monster while parents sit passivity allowing it, Beauty treatments that kids are forced to have for Tiaras.
I just saw this interview right now and everything about the Duggers and how they handled what Josh had done to his sisters and other girls fell in place. And you are right about TLC
And everything the Duggars say and do is completely unkosher. Sexualizing normal bahaviour that children engage in not only makes no moral sense, but that leaves me with plenty of questions that need an answer. I can say the same thing about normal courtship between unmarried couples. I get the no sex before marriage part too well, but what is the logic behind the no physical contact before marriage idea: no holding hands of kissing? That makes no moral sense either and that needs an answer.
Fantastic! I was not raised in a home like this, but I married a man who was raised in a home exactly like this. I did not have a clue what I was getting into when we got married because I had only met his family once before we got married. All I was told about his family was that they were good Christians. As my husband was in the military when we met I didn't have a reason to think that anything was wrong or abnormal. Boy oh boy was that wrong. What I can say now is everything she talks about in this interview, I have seen personally or experienced. I have heard almost verbatim some of the quotes Kristiana gave because they are almost like catch phrases. And I have seen first hand the 'man' of the household acting as the mouth piece for God within the home. This was to the point that anyone who is a male has authority over a female, regardless of the age or station in life. The worship turns from worshiping God, to worshiping the husband. This is a cult of male worship, turning the man into a god. I can honestly say that the only way I got away from him, his family and this cultish mindset was by the grace of the Holy Spirit, and because of military SERE training. I am very much a firm believer that everyone should know what exploitation looks like and how it is implemented and how to recognize if it is happening to you. If you EVER feel the warning bells going off, or a still small voice telling you: "something is not right here." please listen! It could save your life!
T
this is also what the Mormons practice.
Rachel Cullen exactly, male or family worship is not of God.
Rachel Cullen AMEN thank you for sharing... be blessed!!
Amen
angela marsden This is NOT what they practice. The official teaching of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is that husband and wife are equal partners. The church further counsels that how many children to have is a personal decision that should take into account such things as the physical and mental health and well being of the mother.
"Stop crying or I'll give you something to cry about." - The people who've told me how messed up I am for smiling (involuntary) when I hear bad news obviously never heard this from someone who meant it.
That is messed up. It actually sounds like PTSD. Few of us escape these kinds of childhoods unscathed.
@umma a that's so heart breaking. So heart breaking.
Yeah... After getting the snot beat out of you, being told "I'll give you something to cry about" is the ultimate brainwashing.
How do you know when things are bad enough to cry about? Makes it hard to function when you're an adult, and don't know when things are bad enough to seek help or even do something basic - like crying.
A lot of this resonated with me, this phrase in particular standing out as something I heard very often. We weren’t a part of this cult, but the regular beatings, many kids, unhandled sexual abuse, and more were all there. I didn’t have a childhood from raising kids as well. I didn’t know that I’d go into this video that I’d leave with so many questions...
Pony Karr holy -- what you said just made me realize why I cannot ask people for help. I didn’t get beat, but I grew up with absent parents and so I only knew/know how to seek solutions alone.
And I never had someone to hold me when I cried. No wonder I choke on my tears instead of actually crying. Even right now, my world is crashing down and I still feel my breath tighten as my eyes water, like a learned response to emotion that I cannot unlearn.
Damn. Just when you think you know yourself, the 2 month echo of some random stranger on RUclips reveals the actual reason for a life of emotional turmoil.
When she started talking about the blanket training, it made me want to cry. I can’t imagine doing this to my little girl. I feel so bad for all the little children that have to live like this.
Audrey Roloff is blanket training her children. I knew they were very religious but to train children this way is abuse! Sad.
Right? Goodness who on earth is doing this to their babies? They're not allowed to explore?? How awful
It's the same as the baby training in A Brave New World. If the babies don't learn to stay in the alloted area with the first shock, they're labeled as of progressively lesser intelligence, so the "best" and "smartest" citizen babies are the ones who are the most fearful, obedient and easily controlled and would be labeled as breedable, the idea being that the powers that be wanted to breed the ones who were most easily controlled, as well as setting the standard ideal of behavior for the lesser as unquestioning obedience to the authority.
It's literally psychological horror.
What is blanket training ?
@@lindamagnan6749you don't want to know. It's actually psychological and physical warfare against INFANTS in order to break their spirits.
If someone tried to tell me what radio station/music is "acceptable" in *MY RESTAURANT/STORE/ESTABLISHMENT/ETC,* I'd tell them that they can leave and go find a place that is more accessible to them.
I was not raised Quiverfull, but I was raised Mennonite with Michael and Debi Pearl's philosophies in our home. My parents put toxic sanitizer in our barn to "teach" my 2-year-old brother to obey and stay away from it. One time he was caught playing with it and my father whipped him with a rubber hose until he had welts. My parents also used the principle's of "breaking our wills." My mother would brag to all her friends "my kids were only bad for a town trip once" meaning she would beat us into submission so we never acted bad again. The just keep hitting is also true, and if we ever "rebelled" by showing any anger or tears we'd just continue to get hit until we stopped. We were also told that if we ever got a strap at school (we attended a very conservative Mennonite school) we would get the strap at home also. So even at school, I would continuously be under pressure to be perfect to avoid getting beaten. I lived in constant fear as a child. In fact, I started having panic attacks and still have problems with it to this day whenever I hear a child cry. However, I am so thankful to be free.
Wow. I had such a loving childhood. We were spanked but our spankings didn't leave marks or welts or bruises. What your parents did was wrong. I hope you can one day forgive them. Do you have a relationship with them as an adult?
I'm glad you are a free person. I didn't grow up in a cult. My mother was a sicko in her own way. she wasn't satisfied until she heard me crying loudly. That wasn't even enough for her. She would continue to spank me even after i wailed loudly. This was when I was 15 also. I was too old to be spanked but she didn't care. The longer I held my cries in to not give her the satisfaction of hearing me in pain, the longer the spanking would continue until i couldn't hold back from the pain. I now find out my gramma, her mom, was more abusive and uncaring than i had thought, as told to me by one of my uncles. My mom married an abusive man and just allowed him to beat me and terrorize my younger brother. She woke up one day and separated but then moved in the same complex and then eventually got back with him. that's how the women in our family are. they put us in harm's way with men, and then go back to the man who harms their offspring. the last time my mom hit me, I was in my mid 20s. one family member doesnt believe me. but she was never told how I was treated as a teenager. now i have no relationship with my mom. never good enough for her. she only dotes on my brother and to her I'm not her daughter. It sucks that I'm just another daughter who has a dysfunctional mother and family.
I'm so sorry you had to go thru all that. It breaks my heart. God didn't give us children to abuse them or whip them in anger. Makes me so mad that people abuse their kids to the point of panic attacks.I hope you are doing better now. Take care.
This happened in our family an worse . It was not a religious thing. It’s just the way a lot of people raised there kids back in the day.30’s etc. i was born 1960.
@@tana2183 I mean same for me 30 years latter. I appreciate my family being stern
The footage of Michael pearls seminar was the most painful thing to watch as an early childhood educator. It is absolutely abuse and it just made me cry.
so disturbing
Michael Pearl is a horrible person. I feel like he is the type of person to pose as a "well-intentioned" nurse and secretly kill his patients, and his wife would be the same way. Disgusting.
I work for CPS and if we found out a parent was doing that to their children, their children would get taken away.
How can anyone follow this lunatic?
It's so sad how he's talking about breaking the child's will. Isn't there something in the bible about not pushing your children to frustration and despair?? How are these people not in jail for physically, psychologically, and spiritually abusing these kids??
When we became Born Again almost 40 years ago, we were strongly encouraged to be a part of this. The only problem was that as we actually studied our bibles, we realized what was being taught wasn't in there or was severely warped. I remember my husband reading a story in the book, Character Sketches... and he stopped and looked at me and said, "This guy is nuts." To date, I have not met anyone who has modeled this process that has a balanced concept of life or even Christianity. Being Born-again is not even close to the teaching of this group or that of the Pearls. Lord have mercy.
talkdtwo most of the people I know that are part of this.... are ALL “born again” Christians.....
@@ch2821 ya and have probably never studied the Bible in entirety a day in their life there are plenty of people who are born again who still rely on people to tell them what the Bible says! any 1 who has knows none of this is biblical!
@@ch2821 Calling yourself a born again Christian doesn’t make you one anymore than standing in the garage makes you a car. It’s your actions, treatment of others and the things you do when you think no one is looking that determines if you actually know Christ or not. You’ve obviously been very hurt by so called “Christians” and for that I’m sorry but not all are like that.
Amen.
There's a huge difference between reading the Bible and studying it.
In my walk of faith, I have over years there are a lot of people who claim to speak for God. Guess what? it's usually NOT scriptural. I think there are gonna be a lot of disappointed "christians" when they present at the pearly gates.....
My mother took the same path for the same reason. Her favorite expression was “Quit crying or I’ll give you something to cry about.” Usually said immediately after hitting you, kicking you, pinching you, or pulling your hair. This was far and away before gothard.
I was lucky that my dad was an atheist and when he realized what was happening to me, he put a stop to it. It had been going on for years but she told me that if he knew he wouldn’t love me anymore because I was such a terrible child and not lovable because I was wicked and unworthy of love.
When I was 22 she was in some group called the Christian and Missionary Alliance or CAMA. They strongly believed that girls who are molested by their parents shouldn’t leave the home. My friend Gerry’s family went there when I was in high school. At that point my mother was going to a super strict Methodist church. Gerry ran away and moved in with us. The church was insisting she go home so she ran off with a guy in his 30s and married him. She was 16. She had a baby at 17 and I always thought the timing was a bit suspicious. I couldn’t believe when my mother joined that church 4 years later. After my dad died she went further and further down the rabbit hole with my older sister til they belonged to this weird cult church who met in some guy’s filthy house. They abandoned her when she had Alzheimer’s. Then they abandoned my sister when she was dying but the day AFTER she died they tried to being church members in to see about renting her apartment and asking for her stuff. One of them had been driving her car for months and using her EBT card. The church actually asked us which of us was going to tithe in her place. Let me tell you about the earful they got from me.
A fascinating interview - Kristina is so honest, self aware and intelligent. Chris, you are an excellent interviewer - you are able to construct the opportunity for a narrative, and help Kristina to feel comfortable and supported in her disclosure. I am so glad to be a patron!
Is it just me or does the word Quiverfull sound kind of creepy?
Genny Leonard
Sounds ridiculous to me, like some Harry Potter fan club.
it does sound weird and creepy, unless you know what a quiver is: a bag to hold arrows- arrows being the analogy for lots of kids. but the verb quiver, well that's what makes it sound so weird
Anime Aunty that’s what I thought
Holy Bible
King James Version
Psalms 127:3-5
“Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.
As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man; so are children of the youth.
Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them: they shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate.”
If it sounds creepy then that may be an indicator your are not spending enough time in THE Word.
What's creepy is that society has strayed so far from Gods Word that it begins to sound "creepy".
@Sarah Plummer Lol
The way Pearl keeps up that playful and charismatic tone while discussing how to abuse children is absolutely terrifying. No one, least of all children, deserves to be fucking beaten for crying until they have something to cry about.
As I said to my dad at the age of five, “I wouldn’t be crying if I didn’t have a reason.”
The way he blamed wives for not putting out enough to keep their husbands docile enough to "lovingly" beat their children (rather than in anger), I could have sworn my dad was preaching on the pulpit.
It's fun to abuse your family! (/s)
That is the rally cry of all abusers. Stop crying before I give you something to cry about 😢😢😢😢
the minute TLC knew... they should have cancelled the show and made a statement of support for those girls! By allowing it to continue, TLC basically made it clear that what happened to those girls was insignificant! 😡😡😡
Thinking the people behind TLC actually care is your problem.
My problem with large families is you have the older kids raising the younger ones. They do not have the mother and father spending time with them and being connected. If you can not take care of your children yourself then you need to keep your family small. It's not fair to take your child's childhood away from them. They deserve to explore and learn while they grow. Not being a parent.
Pam Semones Exactly, my mom comes from a big family and my older aunt is so bitter, I suspect it's because she spent her childhood and youth taking care of her younger siblings
I certainly didn't have THIS level of experience, but between a divorce and the re-marriages, my sibling count went from 2 to 7 (probably more now, my mom got remarried AGAIN but I've never met them). The smallest age gap was 4 years, the biggest is 16. So yeah, even when I DIDN'T live with my parents I was being called to babysit as if I didn't have a life outside the house. My babysitting was like, an unspoken certainty. And that got old FAST. Glad to be out of that.
Pam Semones I agree. my Dad came from a large family (15 children) and that's exactly how it was. the older kids working to contribute to the house so the younger kids could have things the older ones didn't.
+Beautifully Broken & Elizabeth: So sad! I'm sure it caused a great deal of resentment. Horrible way to grow up!
As an atheist, homeschooling mom of seven, I feel the need to comment: I take care of all of my children. My oldest are scheduled and paid to babysit. They appreciate the money...gotta shop sometime. Quiverful seems to be giving homeschoolers a bad rep :/
Just bingeing cult stuff and it was so weird to hear a song and see the logo and get instant flashbacks from when I was younger. Luckily I had a beautiful strong mother who pulled us up and out of this! My father drowning in patriarchy power trips may think I’m a lost cause, but I am a single, financially independent, and college educated woman. Suck on it.
Same especially when she sang the CI song.
You are fabulous!
Good you Nicole and bravo to your mother being strong
Bless your mom. She must be an amazing woman.
Nicole C yass girl 🙌🏻
Pretty sure Jesus would treat these people how he treated the Pharisees.. “DEPART FROM ME. I NEVER KNEW YOU.”
Emma W Harris 😂 truth
Amen, Emma. Jesus was harder on the pharisees than he was on anybody including harlots, drunkards, and publicans.
These people are following God's way. There are some people who take things to a unhealthy movement.
The arrows they arr talking about are our children that have been sharpened by God's word to go out and teach others about the Lord Jesus and his blood atonement for our sins.
@@debbiebrown4420 Well, the Pharisees were all of the above.
This is also another prime example of taking a few select verses from the Bible and running with them without bringing along the context of the REST of the Bible.
or maybe taking the best of the bible only?
My family wasnt quiverfull but my dad has 6 kids. Not including step kids. The kids that raise their siblings end up resenting their families. Dont have kids you dont want or cant raise
Can confirm, my oldest sister did a lot of the raising of us younger kids in our then-fundamental Christian household and she now resents our family. I barely ever saw her after she moved out.
@@abbreviatedalex2418 And the younger kids resent the older siblings. In my own family, and in many others, the kids can't lean on each other because of the abuse. "Divide and conquer" lives in these families.
abbreviatedalex I moved out at 16 and now my younger sister has moved out at 16 yet it’s still all us older kids fault all the younger ones are turning out like that. I grew up with Bill Gothard lite stuff without the Gothard stuff. My parents believed that way. I do to an extent but don’t go extreme with it. Taking it to the extreme is where you have issues. I went to a church that did and ended up questioning my Christianity.
Sigh...it happens a lot...I'm a single mom and I try to balance my eldest being a kid and teaching responsibilty. I try to get him out of the house and play with his friends and he comes home asking if I need help with the babies...I just want him to be a kid.
Oh by the way 1 quiverful is 6 children
"how did you get away from the cult?"
"i went to college and got an education."
kinda helps you understand why there are so many people among us who spend so much time knocking education and doing their best to disparage the importance of going to college. if you encounter these kinds of people.... RUNNN!
also want to add, that young woman is my new personal hero.
I do think people need to be knowledgeable but I dont think everyone needs college to do it. You can get by very well in life without it if you are smart. I'd prefer if my son went to a trade school but at the end of the day as long as hes productive and a good person I will be happy. I'm not religious at all and will support my child if he ever wants to find a religion that fits his beliefs. But hes 2 so right now his beliefs is every meal should be blueberries cuz he loves blueberries lol.
@@cheyannecaballero2814 I admittedly know very little about the trades and what kind of exposure to other ideas and lifestyles you get while learning a trade, but having spent seven years in academia myself, that exposure is generally what we're talking about when we say that college is a transformative educational experience and when we say that people within these oppressive systems are generally against sending their children to college. The current state of K-12 education being what it is, college is where a lot of us truly learn to think critically about what we've been taught and what we're still being taught, both in explicit educational settings and in real life. This has been my experience, anyway. I'm working through a music master's right now. Through my academic career, I've learned about various cultures through the lens of their music, but I've also met people about whom I'd previously parroted my parents' and my community's prejudices, and I've dealt with media that introduced me to perspectives and topics I'd never considered... I've had to reevaluate a lot of what I believed at 17, basically. It's not just about getting by in life; it's about having a more comprehensive understanding of life. I wish desperately that more kids got that in high school, and I also wish that there wasn't such a financial barrier so that more people could get college educations. There is so much value in learning how to interact critically with the world at large, and everyone deserves the opportunity.
@@ramywiles okay you get all that... and it's cheaper and you can focus on a trade. Its quicker. I know some amazing successful people in my life who never went to college
@@ramywiles and reeevaluatin things you thought at 17 is normal if you didnt then you wouldn't be maturing
@@cheyannecaballero2814 I know people like that too. It's not for everyone, but... well, neither is trade school. I myself am in school for music, and I couldn't pursue music in a trade school. It's not necessarily about expediency and money for me. It's about giving myself a shot at turning this thing I know I can do well into a career. I have a lot of privilege in being able to say that, but I also hope to achieve (or find) a society where everyone can say that, where we value education based on more than just money and jobs and where people don't experience such heavy pressure to limit themselves only to choices that will keep them afloat.
And when I say "reevaluating things I believed at 17" ... I mean that I used to believe gay people were gross and trans people weren't real. I mean that I used to believe abortion was unilaterally wrong and women who got them were evil. I mean that I used to believe some women deserved to be assaulted if they were dressed in skimpy clothes. I mean that I used to believe anti-black stereotypes. I mean that I used to believe that poor people were bad and lazy. I mean that I used to be suspicious of Muslims. Those were the beliefs I grew up either being taught or surrounded by, and they are NOT easy beliefs to change. I'm still in the process of changing them, honestly. Reversing prejudice like this takes time, and it takes exposure to other perspectives, and it takes an ability to critically examine yourself and your own biases. For me, I got those other perspectives through being around people who didn't look like me and didn't come from where I came from. I got that ability to think critically from being made to do so in an academic setting about all kinds of issues. And like I said, maybe you are able to get that in trade school. I just know that what it took for me was being in a more diverse, critically-inclined environment, and I know that college still has a lot of potential to be that environment for a lot of people.
In Colossians 3:21 Doesn't it say "Fathers, do not be hard on your children, so that their spirit may not be broken."?
Good one Karyna! Thank you for pointing that out
It sure does
Yes it does!
Wait.. are you telling Christians not to cherrypick the bible?
@@evelien135 lmaoooo
Ex fundie checking in. I’d forgotten the muting of the “worldly” music in tv shows. It’s the little things. And the damn rod! My church disavowed the Perls but damn if they didn’t echo his sentiments. It still makes me mad. They would call Debi’s book “Created to be his doormat” yet would have entire sermons on discipline with a rod. Pencil width and on the buttocks only, so there wouldn’t be bruising. It was damn child abuse, that’s what it was. I remember taking a trip with my pastors wife and asking her how to deal with the situation with my husband. Her response was “boys will be boys” and that I should basically treat my husband in the same way I would treat my son with a boo-boo. I was aghast. He’s my damn husband, not my child.
Thank you for sharing your story. This reminds me how far my children and I have come. I divorced my abuser and we’re a year and a half into our new life. I haven’t spanked my kids and somehow their behavior is better than it ever was. Imagine that.
Blessed be the fruit! 😂
This was very much my childhood. My mother and stepfather were very religiously controlling. I was home schooled most of my childhood because my parents believed that the public school would simply indoctrinate me with a liberal non-Christian lifestyle. I was not allowed to wear pants or makeup and had to cover my hair (which I was also not allowed to cut). I was not allowed to watch tv, only movies that had been approved by my parents, or listen to non-Christian music. We went to conferences and church programs. We did studies where we had to read the Bible in 60 days and memorize whole chapters of the Bible.
I was one of 8 kids (5 siblings and 2 step siblings) and was raised to believe my only purpose as a woman was to obey my husband and have babies. I grew up with very few friends because they had to be children (and families) my parents approved of so that I was not exposed to secular lifestyles. Punishments for arguing or disobeying could be quite severe which included belts, spoons and even hangers. They believed in group punishment, so if one child did something wrong we might all get spanked. We lived on a hobby farm where as children we were expected to do all the work. Our parents very rarely helped us with chores.
When I was 15 I started having health issues and my mother would not allow my doctor to do a vaginal probe to see if I was suffering from ovarian cancer or cysts because I would “lose” my virginity and when the doctor wanted to prescribe me birth control for an over production of testosterone she again refused because it was playing God.
I was not allowed to date (strict courting was allowed) or even go anywhere with someone of the opposite sex alone. My parents believed in arranged courtships where we would not get to make the decision who we courted, but instead it would be discussed among the parents. I was expected to get married as young as possible. When I started showing an interest in college my mother said the was fine as long as I chose a career I didn’t mind giving up when I got married.
Needless to say I left, and I can honestly say I have not gone to church or opened a bible since. I went to college for recreation management, have worked as a backpack and paddle sports instructor and guide, a writer, a teacher, an event planner and an artist. I have been with the best guy for the last 5 years and we make the most out of everyday. You cannot chose your past but you can choose your future.
Thank you for sharing your own experiences and I'm so sorry you had to go through that. Thank goodness you got away from it and were able to make a good life for yourself.
I am glad you got away from that. Are your siblings still in the lifestyle? Does anyone in the family talk to you?
I feel like I just read a story from my own childhood. I’m so glad we’ve gotten out.
Paige Thompson I do still talk with my parents and visit them from time to time (I do not hate them, they were just very misguided), but they are not accepting of my lifestyle. My mom does well to keep the peace between us, so we just do not discuss topics we disagree on. Over the years I have been closer to my actual father who is not religious in anyway.
All of my siblings went down a different path than we were raised on. In fact, two of my brothers turned out to be gay (one blood, one step) and for the most part I still talk with all of them, some are closer than others. I try to find peace and happiness in all my relationships because I don’t want to go through life bitter or hateful.
Mary-Ann Alig
Sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders and that will carry you well through life. It is also obvious you’re not lazy by any means and willing to try things out of your comfort zone. An amazing trait to have too.
I think it is also good to keep open communications with your parents and siblings as long as there are boundaries that are respected by all, which sounds like most are trying.
Pick the good parts of your past, the good memories and keep growing and learning through life and you will succeed in any endeavor.
Be well and congratulations,
it couldn’t have been an easy choice to follow through with. I tip my hat to you.
Ma’iingankwe
This interview really hit home for me. All of her answers were extremely similar to my own situation. I cannot emphasize enough how damaging this cult is. I'm from a homeschooled quiverful family in which I am the second oldest kid, but am the oldest girl of 8 kids so that meant I was the lucky duck who was forced into the role of mom before I was even old enough to wear a bra myself. Thankfully I no longer am near that circle of people anymore, but still have to deal with the issues I'm left with. I would gladly go into more detail if someone in the comments is curious. If not, I'll just leave it at saying this interview was well done and mentioned a lot of key issues! Thanks for sharing! :)
aliciadachi i would like to know your story. im the oldest girl of 9 and i had to raise my baby sisters and do all the chores and make all the meals. my parents didnt fallow the teaching directly but did practicality worship the pearl family teaching. with the beaten just like in the video
aliciadachi you have my deepest sympathy, you are incredibly strong and special to have survived, and thrived. Peace.
OMG tell us more!
Also amazing for escaping these abusive assholes.
Congratulations on your survival.
I would love to watch and hear you talk about it all. I'll go sub to your channel in case you ever decide to do an expose if you want to call it that.
Listening to her, I’m having flashbacks of my childhood. It’s like looking in a mirror. I am incredibly lucky to have gotten far, far away from this cult.
I remember when jinger got married to jeremy and lots of artikels and on social media wrote about how she was "breaking the rules" and "breaking free from the her opression for wearing a knee lenght skirt and tights. What everybody failed to mention was that Jeremy had said that he would prefere her to wear pants becuse he thougt that made her more "comortable", something they themselfs mentioned later. so she didn't really break free she was just given premission.
Exactly! When Jeremy was asked what attracted him to Jinger he said he like that she was meek. Yikes! Also Jeremy is really into fashion so of course he is going to need his wife dressing nice.
@@Shared-Experiences and the religion Jeremy has joined us equally as oppressive to women and cultish as the one she left.
This young woman is absolutely amazing!
What's amazing about her?
M Cat I personally think she's pretty amazing for seemingly being a fairly well rounded person, who can judge her upbringing without a lot of bitterness on her part.
zencat55 yeah. What on earth is amazing about her? She is SO bitter.
Cubby Levi would you not be?
Cubby Levi you didn't even watch the video clearly. she has the best attitude throughout and hardly even complains.
Blanket training goes against a baby's normal developmental stages...absolutely disgusting.
It's a wonder if any of these babies develop normal communication abilities.
These parents should be sent to prison!
My husband and I attended a Baptist church for a long time, while some of the teachings she described were practiced, some weren't. I do remember doing a parenting class with our pastor and he was teaching that a child 4 months old and up should be spanked. A four month old doesn't have the ability to understand, nor can I imagine what a four month old could do that would need punishment.
We have been out of that church a long time, and I'm proud to say we have never spanked our children. I was never for it before that parenting class, and it didn't change my mind after the class.
@@itsmackenzie Good for you! I can't believe anyone would recommend spanking a 4-month old baby like that!
@@itsmackenzie 😮😮😮😮
OMG blanket training??!! That is hideous. Mommy is telling me to come over here, but then I get slapped if I follow mommy?? What a hideous quandary to set before your infant… from infancy to feel that you can’t trust what your parent does.
I know people who blanket train but do not spank the baby. They just place the baby back on the blanket. They also don't entice the baby off the blanket. They are just working on teaching them early to sit still. The way the Pearls instruct blanket training is not the only way to do it.
Talk about mental abuse and trust issues. Sick twisted freaks of nature... God is good but it's not that serious... Everyone wants to go to heaven.( For those who believe in God) but I'm not going to live my whole life" not living"... You know. What's the point of life if you don't get to experience anything. That's not living that's just existing...
It's done to break the child. Horrible. Not of God.
I'm an attachment parent, so whenever my kids cry, I go to them. I cannot fathom the blanket training.
@@germanncreekfarm62 same!
I always tell newly weds.. "Congratulations, just remember you are not Adam and Eve, you don't have to populate the whole earth yourself."
Oh my gosh I’m going to use this next time someone asks my husband and I “so when will you have more children?!” We have one together and my husband has a daughter with his ex wife, why do we need more! 😂🤦🏻♀️
In my opinion, You shouldn't tell newlyweds that. We definitely do have to populate the earth with more innocence and Gifts of God in Christ.
@@TanyaKatherine baby no we do not. We are overpopulated enough. We don’t need anymore
@@bbrriiaannaa agreed and there are so many children without a home who would love to be adopted!
Thats so funny
Would just like to note...
Lots of people are commenting on homeschooling as if that, in and of itself, is a bad thing.
Homeschooling, like any form of education, can be incredibly good or cosmically bad. It all depends on the parents.
Not the Bill Gothard homeschool which is different from other homeschools and the Bill Gothard homeschool don't believe in higher education for the girls who attends
I agree, unfortunately, I had a pretty bad experience.
@@LaraCroftEyes1 Right, and this is atrocious!! And the child discipline course is horrible too. Makes me sick.
I know and Michael and Debi Pearl have no children his video made me sick to my stomach, hitting a baby or a child on their legs is abuse.
I'm sorry you had a bad experience.
The child beating really got to me. I can't believe people would abuse a small child like that.
Someblackgurl Oh believe it. The Pentecostal school I went to had parents sign a waiver to allow the school to beat children with a paddle. Bent over grabbing their ankles in front of a panel of mostly male elders. It was fucking sick.
irunamuk I am so sorry that happened to you :(
kambermusic I personally didn't have to go through with it but others in the school did. This shit has to stop.
I know, it really is sick. I remember reading about how the Pearls even recommend whipping babies who are only a few months old.
Oh my goodness, Gothard is crazy! How can any loving parent follow this tyrant? Pure evil!
My mum made us hang out with a very strict Catholic family when I was young. The woman was alone with five kids who she homeschooled and they were a weird, quiet bunch, with that kind of smiley hushed demeanor that the Duggar women have.
I don't know exactly what went on behind closed doors, but I do know that the one daughter who managed to go to university came running home after a week because she couldn't handle life outside of her family. Then the youngest son walked up a hill one winter night, lay down and willingly froze to death. He was just 18. I often wonder if she ever feels remorse for the way she twisted her children, but I suspect she doesn't.
That's so sad 😔
Definitely I would say something evil was going on behind closed doors.
I always looked at Michelle Duggar's face and she seemed shell-shocked. It looked as though she were in some inescapable and constantly traumatizing place. Her smile and general expressions were he escaping to another place in her hear head and her voice was just the very instinctual and robotic script she had ingrained in her from birth.
She reminds me of a Stefford wife.
I really think you see what your bias lets you see things.
110%
Uhh Michelle Duggar was normal before Jim Bob. He brainwashed her
Wives are the victims. Trapped by the misogynistic belief system.
I can't see where her outfit is inappropriate. The first thing I noticed was her beautiful face. She has a lot of strength and courage to leave the cult.
Hollie Moodie too much neck
Lol
Oh an a clearly visible tattoo
The devils ink!!!
Dundunduuuuuun
My heart hurts for her. I grew up in a very loving stable home raised by Christian parents, homeschooled, and raised in church. My life was nothing like hers, my parents set me up for success in life. I wish my parents had raised her. She would have been loved. This is so sad.
I was raised the same way and agree. We were spanked, and we were never abused. Her story is sad.
My parents have never been deeply religious. But I was just thinking the same thing that her life would have been so different with my parents as they care a lot about my in my siblings feelings and our desires.
I'm sorry, but I think homeschooling is wrong, it's just another tool to isolate and brainwash. Children need to be socialized with their peers. Plus, every homeschooled person I've tutored in university was woefully behind their peers. Bright people, but they just weren't exposed to any of the sciences (at least not accurately, believing dinosaurs weren't allowed on the ark, and other nonsense). Your parents may have done it right, I don't know you, but I still don't think homeschooling should be legal, as it's abused far too often.
@@TheBizzle1984 They weren't home schooled properly then. There are people who home school children that give their kids a well rounded education (heavy sciences included). And if they're wealthy enough, they'll include travel, to visit historic and scientific places. As for socializing, they get enrolled in sports and other activities with people of similar ages. I'm sorry you've had the bad side of home-schooling but not everyone does it as poorly as the parents of the people you met.
@@Tigrika16 My point was it doesn't matter if some people are doing it right or even the majority (though I would bet money those cases are in the minority from what I've seen), it's a system that has no counter balance, it's the parents word and nothing else, and that creates a situation that invites abusers to feel comfortable. Children shouldn't be isolated in this way, it's wrong, and I'm sorry you can't see the harm it can and does cause because you've got your rose coloured glasses on.
When she said “ope” I knew she was from the Midwest but I’m absolutely shocked we’re from the same county. I had no idea there is a quiver full movement here.
I've been recommended this video for months and I'm finally watching it lets goooo
my father followed the Pearls and my life was just like hers. It's truly sick. She's not making that shit up.
I'm sorry.. I hope you can psychologically get free of what you went through
my whole life was the pearls. everyday... my mom practically worshipped them... and still dose. i was beaten just like the illustration. i was raised on the blanket thing... now that im an adult i see how awful this really is. my father was very angry and beat us kids till we bled. my mom would do almost that vad on a daily bases. i was locked in my room without any toys and just the bible to read. i was the oldest girl so i had to raise my little sisters. im #6 of 9. my story is not quit as bad as hers in the video but it was still bad
I heard about those Perl people (the authors) when some of my father's acquaintances in our religious organization discovered their books. It didn't set right with my parents, and people were passing the books around the circles. I still consider it a near miss, for sure. (My father was a religious nut case, and created a miserable environment in our home, for my mother too.) I'm a born again Christian today, and have nothing whatsoever to do with my father or any organized religion, period. Religion makes for nut jobs.
I am so sorry our parents didn't love you more than they loved the Pearls. I hope you're now in a loving relationship.
Abigail Overstreet- you poor little girl!
"If your husband is abusive towards your kids, make love to him." Oh God. It's sad enough that young children are being brainwashed, isolated, and beaten especially considering how 85% of your brain develops by age 5. And then once they grow up they enter these marriages that cannot be healthy. I read in People's magazine that "the Duggar women don't get headaches" and their whole attitude towards sex makes me sick. They go straight from a super chaste courtship where they can't even talk unchapperoned (or else they will immediately have sex) to getting married and being sexually available to their spouse at all times. They are not allowed to not be too tired or not be in the mood. It's awful.
Brie X I see this a abusing the wife.
Definitely. They go straight from having abusive fathers to having abusive husbands.
Brie X Basically they're telling women to reward their husbands for awful abuse.
Yeah and they're saying that men are not responsible for their actions. That men are violent and angry and horndogs. It is a wife's job to satisfy his sexual urges or else it's basically her fault if he starts abusing the children out of whatever sexual frustration he's dealing with.
Ugh Yes. I hate that the Duggars are on TV period. And now they're following the daughters. Which isn't going to be anything but oh look who's pregnant again! Can we please stop funding these people to continue their abusive cycles. My number one problem with these cults having a dozen children is that it creates the perfect scenario in which these children become victims to sexual abuse. Having 19 children there's no way you aren't relying on others to watch and care for your children. Perfect example is the older Duggar child caring for and molesting the young daughters. I refuse to watch them and help them stay on air.
Watching this as a former mormon.... the similarities are crazy, especially with the brainwashing and the difficulty transitioning out of a highly controlled religion / cult. While I didn't experience any physical abuse growing up mormon, the emotional and psychological toll has been huge, even 10 years after leaving.
WTH is wrong with these people. That man looks like he was having fun with the rod. Disgusting!
Also, when Victorian-era dress and music are considered risqué compared to yours, you might be in trouble.
Christiana did an incredible job in this discussion. She's very well-spoken, but also really genuine and down to earth. I hate that anyone has to live in such an abusive home, especially in "the name of God."
I’ve seriously come back to this interview 4 or 5x the last few years!
such an informative, educational, real, and interesting interview. fantastic interview!
I grew up like this, but being Mennonite on top of it..
The “ break a child’s will” mentality makes me sick.
They did it to me.
I had a teacher for 3 years who was on a power trip and didn’t like me and suffered under her hand age 8-11. She made stuff up and would punish me for it and then call home and I would get in more trouble at home. Quite a few times I got punished for getting spelling words wrong (I was dyslexic). I got in punished for adjusting a hair pin and once for supposedly making a face at her. I even got in trouble for wearing ankle socks one day instead of my high black wool socks.
Education past grade 8 was never an option. We had to wear specific dresses. The dresses all had to be the same, with sleeves past the elbow with elastic, hems 3 inches above our ankles. Elastic at our waist with a 1inch belt over it and a 9 inch zipper in the back. Fabrics had to be solid colors and could only be blue green black grey or purple. We even had to wear very specific socks. They had to be black or charcoal wool that came over the knees and shoes had to be black. We could only have dark blue black or dark grey cars and we could only use flip phones that had no camera. We had no access to the internet and all of our music was accapella music that the Mennonites made.
My parents weren’t raised Mennonite and one of the church men told my dad “your girls will be married off quickly because they have fresh blood”. meaning we weren’t related to anyone. 🤮
Thankfully my parents pulled us out of there right before I hit the courtship age.
WTF?
"A little psychological terror is sometimes more effective than pain."
GentlePath Grad insanity
True and terrible statement.
yeah that's disgusting and disturbing
Yeah it may be more effective but it doesn't make right .this sounds like FBI tourture tactics not how to raise your kids.
by pscological terror do you mean religions with the threat of hell in them? it does seem to work pretty well.
I feel so bad for the older girls in the Duggar family. I only have 8 siblings - about half of the Duggar family - and I spent so much of my youth taking care of my siblings.
Rebecca Johnson bless your heart, I cannot imagine. I hope you've been able to find freedom.
I can't feel badly for them because they're so brainwashed that they don't think anything wrong was done to them and now they're raising their own children with the same twisted beliefs
Rebecca Johnson It's really irritating to me that they have such a fanbase that can ignore their problems and their son MOLESTING his sister, solely because they're Christian.
I feel bad for any family with more than 6 kids for the reason you said. The older child tends to care for the middle children.
This brings back so many painful memories of my childhood and upbring. - My family was not quiverfull but part of the bible thumping religion. the verbal and physical abuse still lingers in my life and head - I'm 64 yrs old and I've tried to get rid of the effects. this needs to stop!
So Sorry, Janice.💕
Hope you heal yourself.
You ARE a Beautiful person.
@Jeaneane P there’s nothing wrong with being a Christian but it is wrong to warp the word of God to control people and gain power for yourself
Janice S, I had a similar background and at 59, am still suffering the after-effects of the abuse I recieved. Oh, and I was also sexually abused by my father, a fact my super-religous mother still refuses to accept.
same at 57, church abuse still haunts me
@@karistone1297 it's amazing how often this occurs. When you feel you own your children, there is an entitlement mentality. Also, when a parent does not respect their child's emotional boundaries, sexual abuse is not a big leap. I'm very sorry you were abused. You survived! Enjoy your life. Choose to forgive and be happy. You are not alone. So many share your pain, grief, and anger.
That monster demonstrating using a rod or whatever on the doll...Heartbreaking.
several parents killed their children using the horrible abuse techniques of blanket training in mr pearls book "how to train up a child" mr pearl forced all the moms to do this some would not he harrassed and called them terrible moms
I had a family like this near me. They lived in Section 8 housing. The parents had 9 kids who were all home schooled, which really meant the older kids stayed home and babysat the younger siblings. One of the girls became furiously upset with me because I mixed up Noah and Moses from the old testament. It also turned out that the brothers were all raping the sisters because masturbation ("spilling their seed") they were taught, would send them to hell. CPS became involved after one of the daughter (14) was seen by our youth pastor as having a pregnancy bulge.
Wow. That is awful.
that is so sad, those poor children. I hope things are better for them now and I hope you survived this family trauma too.
I 'wonder' what the Legal Ramifications were after CPS 'got involved'-?
"Slap on the wrists", and, "Don't get caught", I'd imagine. (if in Utah, anyway) IME
wow how sad and horrible. what happened afterwards?
That's so terrible and heartbreaking. I hope they were okay afterwards.
I know it is almost 4 years ago that this was posted. I just have to say how strong I think this lady is. I am hoping that she is having an amazing life right now.
Over 6, now. 😈😈😈😈
@@jessiehermit9503 LOL.. Meet you back here is 2? smiles
@@tinglelingaling6 Maybe. We'll see. Lol. 😆
This video make some think of my Dad who experienced an abusive childhood and became an alcoholic. He made so many mistakes, but he was so restrained in discipline saying that he ,"didn't want to break our spirits" that always seemed so important to him, the value that led him as a parent. He could often be neglectful, letting my mom handle most things, but I value his realization that breaking your kids spirit is the worst thing you can do. All of his 3 daughters are the far from submissive and rarely take no for an answer!
I will teach my kids to question all authority, including myself. Parents don’t know everything and parents aren’t always right, but if you are open and honest with your kids they’re more likely to listen and care about where you’re coming from.
Michael Pearl is a misogynistic man!! I remember reading his little book To Train Up a Child and thinking this guy is most likely abusive and quickly threw the book in the trash!
I too had to cut off communication with my family. It was a different kind of abuse that I faced, but abuse is abuse. Life is meant to be fulfilling and joyful, not miserable.
I’m so grateful that I was raised in a normal Christian home, I loved being homeschooled, & these people are effed in the head for the way they treat children & adults.
Here is how the handmaid's tale begins.
This "woke" culture aborts 600,000 children/year and then sells the fetus's body parts. Brain and spine fetch a lot more than limbs. That is not some novel, that is happening today for real but be fearful of a novel. Utter idiocy.
@@kinnish5267 If we used birth control and plan b we would not have to worry about abortions but the alt religious right wants to stick their head in the sand about sex. Oh and as soon as the fetus is born they want to tap out and make that person raise a kid that they cannot afford or cannot raise right now. It would just be better to get the shot and be sure than not and get an abortion.
@@mugglescakesniffer3943 I agree. I always say that I can’t be against abortion and against preventing pregnancy. If I expect people not to get abortions, I better be offering them ways to prevent that unwanted pregnancy or options for if they do get pregnant like adoption and other resources. I also advocate for proper sex education, free/easily accessible prevention and healthcare, more resources for parents who need it, and overall communities sticking together to help everyone out. I actually made a huge post about it on fb not long ago because I absolutely am pro life but that’s about all life, not just that of an unborn baby. I think all humans have the right to live life happy and healthy, these things aren’t just deserved by people who are born with silver spoons in their mouth. Healthcare is absolutely a human right!
These idiots don't get the idea that The Handmaid's Tale is NOT an instruction manual, it's a stern warning to NOT go down this dark, evil path.
This isn't quite how the book goes, but I can appreciate the parallels.
I’m Christian, and I think these people are criminally insane and emotionally and physically abusive.
Thank you!
I'm atheist but I agree with you! These people are insane 🤯🤯 I'm glad this young lady was able to get away! 😃😬😬
I’m an atheist and I think all theists are criminally insane for indoctrinating their children with this bullshit. It’s sick, disturbing and has nothing to do with living in reality.
Christians should not be lukewarm either though. We are fighting a spiritual war against satan. Look up John Ramirez!
This! I’m a Christian and was raised homeschooled k-12 but my parents were never this insane. I’m questioning why I ever looked up to the Duggar girls, it’s scary.
I was raised going to the pearl’s seminars and just watching this made me feel ill. I left when I was 18 and I kinda forgot how horrible it was.
Wtf were your parents thinking?!
Glad you are out and i also wish you love!
Those Pearls are really SICK! Their methods of "discipline" are so damaging and cruel.
This lady is utterly fascinating to listen to! I have found this video perhaps the most honest and also, _critically_ the most aware critique on the Quiverfull movement that I have read/seen. I am so pleased that she managed to escape from her family and the structure of control they built around her.
She is so intelligent and well spoken.
For everything this young lady has gone through, she is lovely and had a fantastic smile and personality!
I hope that is a genuine confidence she shows on the outside. I grew up much like her without this madman in our lives - my dad was his own madman with weird religious ideas about how to break us and teach us...... I was so confused I came to the conclusion everything he said was lies, everything he claimed to be Christianity was lies. I couldn't function around him. My mom believed she had to support him in everything, even after he died. They've both passed but looking back I see how we were raised, has severly affected all of us children to this day. How we relate or don't relate to each other. How what my dad did to us put a wedge between all of us even though he said mom turned us all against him. He did it all by himself. This is not what Christianity is suppose to be. It is not what Christ showed when he healed people.
When my oldest wasn't even a year and a half, walking as I held him and talked with him. Showed him things around us. He listened when I asked him to come to me but he wouldn't do that for his dad. His dad was quick with a slap, uninviting and didn't want to spend time with him, thought I turned our son against him. Insisted that we spank him regularly. It broke my heart to hear him say that. My confusion from how I was raised reared its ugly head and I thought to myself, I must be wrong, he must be right -(just like my mom did about my dad's abuse) from there our marriage fell apart within 4 years. My husband became more and more agressive, threatening people, threatening our children. I wasn't functioning. We didn't last.
Life simply does not have to be this way.
You got out and fought to be better. Forgive yourself. You started out with the cards stacked against you. Sending ❤️
@@ruthdederick7754 Thanks for your kind words Ruth! :)
How can they call children "gifts" and then treat them like garbage? I guess the emphasis is on the gifts belonging to them--the children are there to gratify the parents, not to be cherished. My heart goes out to all children raised like this. Also to this incredibly articulate lady.
What an articulate description. This is what disturbs me most. That and the fact that the parents are losers who are clearly enjoying validation for bullying.
Yeah gifts in the sense of, 'oh hey, thanks for the new car, now it's mine to use as an object'.
That's the part that I struggle most understanding. My children are truly gifts and blessings and I treat them with the kindness and love they deserve. How can they outright abuse sweet helpless children and think it's right. They have to have evil in their hearts to begin with. Just disgusting!
I'm a real Christian and this weirdness would never have felt right in our family.
A true Christian would and should feel creeped out by most of this.
That’s pretty arrogant. One of the reasons religion is so awful is the whole concept that any one person/group knows who is the “real” (fill in the blank religion).
There's a lot things that are dreadful in the bible, that you, supposedly true Christian, find godly and morally acceptable.
@@brigidscaldron Oh It, meaning Christianity is the one and only "real" way. There is nothing arrogant about what I believe.
@Eric Rivera The catholic religion is nothing more than a cult and that is exactly the types of things that happen in cults.
If a non religious person said this would it be arrogant? Anyone would sense would know it is wrong regardless of fatih or no faith.
The most important thing to do when considering these sort of "religious" cults is to imagine what it would look like without using religion to justify its practices. For instance, taking God out of the rhetoric entirely, consider the thought of beating a child, punishing them for not immediately following instructions. Think about what it means to train your children like animals, not people, with no free will or rights outside of those you deem necessary. Imagine forcing the older children to forsake their entire childhood to raise the children you produce. Not only are they not emotionally mature enough to handle that much responsibility, but it places the kids as family caretakers, and doesn't allow them any independence or any control over their own experiences. They don't get the opportunity to develop into adulthood and responsibilities in time, they are forced into it far before they are ready. Children should be allowed to make mistakes without abuse framed as punishment for their actions. They should be encouraged to flourish, not restricted and manipulated.
This is exactly what that Duggar family follows. Please post or retweet this video on Duggar fan pages. People think because this family is "Christian" they are wonderful. When, in fact, they are very dangerous and have made political inroads. They need to be taken off of TV and not given a platform to spew their twisted version of Christianity and perversion. Others Christians are not aware of what the Duggars do and just take them at face value as a wholesome family because of TV editing. This video needs to be shared again and again. Thank you for making this!
+Kay W I am hoping that if the Duggar kids have an opportunity to access a computer without getting into trouble, the first thing they'll do is google their own name. Guaranteed they will read at least one critical article. The same goes for other fundamental Christian groups. The sheer numbers of people criticizing the religion may give them pause...
***** Good points Grumpymom. The articles will always be there, and hopefully as the kids get older, they'll examine both sides and make a choice. But Michelle and Jim Bob will be convulsing at the idea of the kids doing something independent of them. I can't
wait.
Please everyone repost the video.
***** It would not surprise me a bit if that happened.
Dee what exactly do the Duggers do wring? I see no signs of abuse. Their sons fondling of his sissters was dealt with in a manner that the actual investigator said they handled the situation better than any case they had ever witnessed. Other than that, what abuse? never saw Mr. Dugger be controlling/domineering.
After all the abuse for her to come out and still have a sense of humor and a good outlook on life is amazing. Great interview. Thank you.
Mrs. Lady Kat she's almost a good enough actor to do infomercials
She is so delightful!
A couple of takeaways for me:
"Education as salvation." - Kristiana (I can see this as a t-shirt, Chris!)
"Cult leaders are like Whack-A-Mole that way. " - Chris
"You can't stop the stories from coming out." - Kristiana
A lot of great food for thought, thank you, Chris. Excellent work, and thank you, Kristiana.
She has mastered the art (or I guess it comes naturally to her) of smiling and talking at the same time. A very charismatic skill, particularly considering the dark subject matter. She is a great spokesperson for anything actually, but good she can call attention to cults.
I remember going to Bill Gothard in the 70's with my mom. I was used to super evangelical sermons and such as I was raised in strict christians churches. It would have been very easy for my family to join a cult such as this but let's be clear that it doesn't take a cult like this for child abuse to occur. We went to a strict Baptist church where swaying to the church music was met with a conversation from the minister about that being inappropriate. When I came forward with the sexual abuse I had been suffering at the hands of my father they met that with a lot of pressure to stay quiet, forgive, read scripture, and move on. No ramification for my father other than christian counseling. After 6 months of this mom and I went to the police and they visited that church. Scary when abuse comes wrapped in salvation.
My heart goes out to you, Karen. I have a similar story. I grew up with just my mom( my father left when my mom was pregnant with me and my older brother was still a toddler) in the Mennonite cult and I was sexually abused by a member of the church we attended. He started when I was 4 years old and continued long after my family left the Mennonites. It was an unspoken threat that if I ever said anything, bad things would happen. I stayed quiet because I knew that they would do the same to me as they did to you. Honestly, I didn't even understand that I was being sexually abused until I was 15- 16 years old. Because of what happened, I ended up leaving Christianity all together and converted to Paganism. I'm 22 years old now and I wasn't able to come out about what happened to me until I'd turned 21. I did end up going to the police but they did nothing because my abuser is Mennonite.
@@Imperfect_selflove77 they should be prosecutable still. This policy is wrong. I am so glad you are safe now.
@Charlie Hunt Separation of Church & State. It has its good points, such as (supposedly) keeping religious influence out of elections and allowing for the free practice of any & all religious persuasions, but it has its negative aspects, too. To be fair to the Constitutional Congress (the men who wrote the U.S. Constitution), they did not mean for religions to be exempt from the law, that's actually the influence of religious leaders in the interpretation of the 1st Amendment. If George Washington or Thomas Jefferson had their way in this particular topic, religions would just about be abolished in the U.S., but they knew better than to attempt that (they were really smart men). The people would never support a country that disallowed religion. But allowing religions to skirt legal responsibility, that would infuriate them. They were breaking from a country where the religion was run by the temporal ruler, the last thing they wanted in this new nation was that intertwined influence of politics and religion again, where religion was above the law.
@@Imperfect_selflove77 Glad you survived, but my heart goes out to you, because you are still so young, and the effects of your abuse still have yet to play out. So many people think that Mennonites & Amish are pious relics of the past, and don't realize that their populations are just as beset by scandal as the rest of us. As a native Pennsylvanian, I've grown up with a different perspective on the Amish & Mennonites & similar groups (near my hometown there's a group called the Bruderhoff, probably misspelled, a/k/a Brotherhood, who wear mostly plain dress similar to Mennonite clothing, have similar restrictions on use of modern conveniences, etc., and after "home-schooling" at their own school they go to our local high school, that's how we all know them). Lots of incest, which is church-sanctioned. When I was in high school in the 1980s, I befriended some of the girls who were in my study hall - they weren't really allowed to chat with us, but who's going to stop them? - and some were just waiting for their 18th birthdays so they could leave the group. It's so sad that Jesus can say that God is Love, and to be like God means to love everyone the same as you love yourself, but people find a way to turn hate & abuse - the worst instincts of mankind - into the "message," and then get so many people to fall for it! Good luck, honey, but more than that, best wishes. Always remember to trust your gut. If it doesn't feel like it isn't in your best interests, it probably isn't. Don't let anyone convince you otherwise. There are a lot of manipulative people out there who care about no one but themselves.
@@historianKelly At the time of the Continental Congress, the concerns were based in experience of State-sanctioned (imposed) religion; today, it seems increasingly like we are living in the reverse of that situation: one in which it is now the State which could use some protecting from Church influence. ~ As for a later comment, re Mennonites, Amish, etc.: It is bizarre the way so many of us "outside" people view these groups as living perfectly pious, idyllic lives! (They're just PEOPLE, for godssakes!) - I really do think most of it is simply aesthetic, and that stressed-out folks who are drowning in clutter and obnoxious, beeping technology like to romanticize pastoral life- as though it were a break from existence rather than a different lifestyle, complete with its own set of human problems and sources of stress. Maybe plainclothes makes selecting outfits easier(?), but, beyond that, I wouldn't know
I had thought that Michelle Duggar's constant state of pregnancy was because she was addicted to being pregnant (yes, it's a thing). I had no idea that this Quiverfull movement was behind it. I always felt bad for the older children who weren't allowed to be children themselves because they were forced to take over the mother's responsibility to care for more and more littler ones, and I could never understand people's joy at the birth of each new little addition to the cult. Now the Duggar kids are following in their parents' footsteps and having more and more children. Sad!
Funny you say that. I have always been high strung. When I was pregnant with my daughter I felt so mellow and calm. Normally I was always moving; cleaning, working, going to school, always had every minute of every day planned out. I loved the mellow and calm and feeling her move, I can see how some women can become addicted to easy pregnancies.
@@chrishazzoo Some women become addicted to being pregnant due to the attention they get from others. They love it. And for some it's probably a chemical thing too. Like the hormones that your body makes when you are pregnant. Some women are a little off balance (I'll say that for lack of a better word) and pregnancy hormones actually balance them out. So they can become addicted to that as well. And still, some women love having babies not for the pregnancy itself, but for the "being needed" that a baby means. They are the center of that baby's world until toddler stages usually. These sre generally the overbearing mothers who smother their child and don't want others to give attention to the child as much as they do. Because they need to feel needed. When that baby gets old enough to become independent, they have another to keep that feeling.
I never had a child I didn't love, and my only regret is that I didn't have more. Same with my grandchildren. They are blessings, and I'd rather them learn about working as a team instead of what most kids do nowdays (sitting in front of Sponge Bob cartoons all day)
The fact that her children are choosing the same life negates the assumption that her older children had no childhood. Families work together. Even when you don’t have that many children, older kids should help. That is how you learn to be confident caring for others. Chores teach children how to be confident in taking care of themselves. Life skills.
This is hard on a woman's body and when my mother had 4 babies in five years she had a psychotic break and heard voices telling her to kill her children and suicide. If a woman is predisposed to mental illness this lifestyle can be deadly. Solution...education
This is the third video I've watched of yours, Chris and I want to thank you for doing this. Please keep up your work on exposing cults of all sorts. So destructive to human health, freedom and critical thinking.
I’m married and my husband and I have an equal partner relationship, we discuss any issues we have together. This whole unquestioning thing wouldn’t fly in my marriage.
Solidarity, my sister! "Second Mommy" oldest, homeschooled daughter of a Quiverfull/To Train Up a Child family here. My stomach lurched when you said "umbrella of protection" - I haven't heard those words in a long time, but boy, do they bring back memories. A college education and reading "worldly" literature on the sly was my saving grace. I'm still struggling through and in therapy. I am told I have to mourn what I never had in my parents, but I don't quite know how yet. I was very happy to hear your story and about your new-found freedom. It makes the world less lonely.
This hit so close to home I started sobbing. It's hard to see when you're in the middle of it, but when you get some distance you realize how crazy and sad your childhood was.
The interviewer and many commentators are like, "Wooooowwww what a crazy cult and what a rough childhood!"
I'm over here like, "OMG someone who gets it!"
I've never actually met someone in person who has survived and left Gothard and/or Pearl teachings. I am aching for that comradery.
Hey, survivor hear
Here :)
@@deborahmahowald4058 Always nice to meet an ex-fundie. :D
My heart is aching for all the children that will be attending the IBLP annual conference this year 🥲
Wow, I wish I had found this video earlier. I just watched for the first time, and it helped me so much to hear someone else - a young lady, at least one generation younger than me - tell "my" story. I am going on 60, but my experience growing up is nearly identical. I was at the Bill Gothard seminar held at Peachtree Plaza in Atlanta when I was about 14 or 15. I still have the "manual", this sweet girl refers to. I struggle with a lack of self acceptance and a sense of guilt every day. I hope to be free of the brainwashing at some point in life, but like I said...I'm going on 60! Thank you for posting this interview. I wish the absolute best for this lovely young woman and her family.
I was kinda indifferent until the child training segment. I mean, we've all heard about religious cults and whatnot, it's not news. However, seeing this guy beating up a doll with such meticulous care to make it more abusive and painful for the child, and seeing that woman staying there and talking nonsense, it deeply disturbed me. This guy is a monster, a real life one.
I'm glad that you watched long enough to see that. The Gothard group is extremely destructive and it needs to be more broadly understood how abusive this can get.
Oh, I watched all of it, thanks for the upload. This woman is an impressive person. I wouldn't have endured so much abuse in my childhood and I'm happy she seems to be coping well. This sect (as well as any other radical group I'm sure) is designed to enable and justify abusers, clearly.
I THINK MR PEARL WAS TRYING TO SHOW WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IN ALL KINDS OF CIRCUMSTANCES WHEN THE CHILD WAS TRULY DISOBEDIENT. HE WASN'T SAYING TO GRAB THE CHILD'S HAIR, ALTHOUGH HE DID SO WITH THE DOLL. HE WAS SAYING TO USE THE ROD SPARINGLY TO GET THE CHILD TO CHANGE HIS/HER BEHAVIOR, IF IT WAS DISRUPTING FAMILY LIFE. HE WAS NOT SAYING TO BEAT UP YOUR KID FOR NO REASON AT ALL. IT WAS TO STOP THE DISOBEDIENCE. IT'S BETTER THAN GETTING THE LEATHER BELT TREATMENT (MY MOM'S FAVORITE, FOR SHE COULD CATCH US WITH THE END OF IT IF WE TRIED TO RUN AWAY) OR THE SLIPPER TAKEN OFF THE FOOT AND ADMINISTERED TO WHEREVER SHE/HE COULD REACH US, OR THE BRUSH TO THE LEGS WHICH LEFT LITTLE BLOOD MARKS, ETC. THE FLEXIBLE SWITCH TO THE REAR END 2-3 TIMES WILL NEVER HURT A TODDLER OF 3 OR A YOUTH TO TEEN. I USED IT ON OUR DAUGHTER ABOUT A DOZEN TIMES WHILE SHE WAS GROWING UP. ONCE OR TWICE SHE CRIED, BECAUSE I GAVE HER 4 SWATS. THAT'S BECAUSE SHE DIDN'T FEED HER PET BUNNIES, AND LIED TO ME THAT SHE HAD, AND WHEN I CHECKED ON THEM AT NIGHT, I FOUND THE CAN FULL OF FOOD, AND THEY WERE STARVING. SO SHE HAD LIED ABOUT FEEDING THEM, MAKING THEM SUFFER, AND THAT WAS THE *ONLY* CHORE SHE HAD TO DO ALL DAY LONG, WHICH TOOK 3 MINUTES TO DO. SHE CHOSE TO GET RABBITS, I PAID FOR THEM, BOUGHT THE FOOD, CLEANED THEM OUT, ETC. OTHER INFRACTIONS WERE DESTROYING TOYS, MAKING A MESS WITH PAINTS AND GLITTER WHEN SHE WAS OLD ENOUGH TO KNOW BETTER, WALKING AROUND IN THE BASEMENT WITH LIT CANDLES RACING WITH A FRIEND ACROSS THE ROOM! ALWAYS THINGS SHE KNEW BETTER, REALLY BREAKING THE 'DANGER' RULES, OR LYING ABOUT A MAJOR ISSUE. ONCE SHE TURNED 16 SHE WAS A VERY GOOD KID, ADMIRED BY TEACHERS AND SCHOOLMATES, THE CAPTAIN OF THE CHEERLEADING TEAM, GOING TO PROM WITH THE FOOTBALL QUARTERBACK, AND SO ON. NO COMPLAINTS FROM ANYONE AND VERY TRUSTWORTHY INDIVIDUAL. THE CHRISTIAN SCHOOLING HELPED, I'M SURE, BECAUSE THEY EXPECTED GOOD BEHAVIOR AND GAVE THE STUDENTS TOOLS WITH WHICH TO COMPLY, UNIFORMS, LOTS OF SPORTS, BIBLE VERSES TO MEMORIZE (ONE PER WEEK) AND SO FORTH, PRAYING TEACHERS WHO HAD A TREMENDOUS HEART FOR TEACHING AND INSPIRING STUDENTS.
YAY FOR C.V.C.A. IN CUYAHOGA FALLS, OHIO. IT STANDS FOR CUYAHOGA VALLEY CHRISTIAN ACADEMY. NO PREGNANCIES ALL YEAR LONG, EVERYONE GRADUATING WITH DECENT GRADES, 95% GOING TO HIGHER EDUCATION, AND OTHERS INTO MILITARY OR MINISTRY OR VOCATIONAL SCHOOLS. WHILE IT COST $600/MONTH IT WAS VERY MUCH WORTH IT. SAME PRICE YOU PAY FOR INFANT CARE AT A DAY CARE CENTER, BUT WITH MORE MORE EDUCATION!!
Jeanne Dinovo you're a moron
Read the book. They practically told parents to coax children to grab a really interesting stuff prepared for them. And when they do grab it, hit the child.
He did say to pull the hair of the biting baby.
He also gave instructions on how to pick the rods.
This is heartbreaking. Those Pearls are monsters. It made me sick to watch him doing that to the doll & realizing he & others were going to hurt a baby or child. The most beautiful thing about a child is watching them develop their own personalities. And my dad was so right about higher education. I now know why he said " they" cannot take education away from you. Meaning crazy authorities who want to stop free thought & free speech!
Authoritarian types, not authorities.
+foxibot Wish I'd been better at getting that message across to my daughters; I mean, they're not affiliated with these nut burgers or anything, they just didn't follow my advice regarding higher education.
+Meerschweinchen416 Still remember my parents treating me like I was demon possessed when I cried because they wouldn't listen to me.
amen! good thing we werent born Muslim in the middle east or they would kill us for making that statement!
Anyone who treats their children that way should be publicly scorned and spit on.
This has so many parallels to my experience in mormonism. She's amazing. Thank you for speaking.
Wow! This brings back memories. Many of them very painful. But suffice it to say how proud I am of Kristiana for being bold and brave enough to come forward and share her experience whilst in this cult. Good job Kristiana! Proud of you!