Lie Angle - What Does It Do?? Can It Help Your Miss??
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 28 июл 2024
- In this video we do an extreme lie angle test to see just how much difference they can make to ball flight, but also how much they can alter a few other variables that you just might not know about...
Спорт
Good video. Glad to hear you say to adjust the lie angle based on ball flight. I've seen fitters immediately go to a lie board and not even consider ball flight which is crazy.
Great video! Very helpful before my fitting on Friday!
I got my lie angles adjusted othe day played at weekend and irons just felt so much better. Went 2 deg flat didn't feel like I needed to play a fade to make it go straight. Much more neutral to me now.
Another great video - thanks
It would be very hard to hit shots consistently enough to avoid altering these results. We naturally make little adjustments to what we see. A tiny change in path or face would cancel out the difference lie makes, but I just had my clubs bent 1.5 degrees flat because I was fighting an over draw. It worked great. My ball flight has calmed down and my dispersion circles are no longer all left of the hole.
Would be great to see a video of you demonstrating fairway wood lie angle differences.
Very interesting vid. I've recently took up the game again, been hammering the range for the last few weeks and only just realised today that my irons are way too upright for me. I've been getting frustrated as to why I'm catching everything fat, I'm basically slamming the club shaft into the ground, no wonder my left wrist/elbow/shoulder is aching.
What does it mean if you a slightly striking your wedges and irons (but not your long woods driver or hybrid) slightly towards the toe? Doesn’t that mean I need flatter clubs?
U need to play 4 flat bro! Lol when u flatten it…it makes the club have a little more bounce, it also opens the face and adds a little loft. So it also present the heel more and lengthens the club slightly which also effects swing weight slightly
Just found this channel, great explanation. I’ve had my Mizuno 921 HM for about 18 months, custom fitted as standard. Just had a lesson with one of our pro’s on GC quad & everything with a 6 iron is toe down 0.40? Went back to the pro I bought them from, he’s questioning if I’m presenting the handle too high. Needless to say I’m booking a session to see if they need bending. Interestingly, at the original fitting Mizuno were std, Ping G410 1 deg upright 🤔
Thanks kev! Is that a typo or are you is that actually 0.4 of a degree? If so then that's really good! Majority of people I see are toe down and the average I would say is like 3-5* toe down at impact. I've even seen like 15* toe down at impact. So 0.4 is virtually perfect! 😂
Sorry between 3.8-4.5 toe down at impact 🤪
Nice topic was just fit for the P770 3 upright. Glad I found this video as I’m on the fence for the purchase.
Glad we can be of assistance bud 👍👍
I've either been a Mizuno or Titleist iron fan, and Mizuno are 1.5 flatter than Titleist in general, but i use a red whiteboard marker pen and draw a line on the back of the range ball. Sit it down as close to being upright as possible on a range mat, and see where the line transfers to the face. Dynamic lie is something people don't tend to think about. Buy a set of clubs with different shafts which don't droop as much, so the dynamic lie could be different. The marker on the ball is easy to do at the range to check. If the line isn't right angle to the grooves, then it's something to look at.
100% Paul that's a great way to get Dynamic lie feedback if you can't get onto a quad for sure 👍👍
@@epgolfstudios You missed the point. He doesn't need a "quad", he simply uses the range and their balls to determine lie angle using a dry erase marker. The marker line transfer from the ball to the club face will tell the story. If the line on the club face is angled towards the golfer, you need to increase lie angle. You chase the direction of the marker line angle. Same as archery. You move the pin in the direction of the arrow impact - high or low, chase the arrow.
@MichealBacon reread that. He's just acknowledging another way to get dynamic lie (which is the main point, btw) not highlighting the point of the comment
@@MichealBacon no I completely got the point. And just because the line points a specific way does not mean the lie angle needs changing necessarily. There are other variables to consider that are more important, like miss.
@@epgolfstudios Wrong again. Lie angle is in fact attributed to the golfers swing arc and path often due to incorrect club length, but not always. If lie angle is too strong (upright), miss to the left. If lie angle is too weak (flat), miss to the right. It's all elementary, my friend.
Very informative video. I got fit for clubs at 2 degrees upright. But an inch longer am I correct In saying the extra inch length causes the club to now be 3 degrees upright?
I’m 6ft3 and this was the reason my fitter wanted me to be 2 degrees upright?..
Length doesn't directly effect the lie angle of a club it's only relative to how you set up to the club. So yes if it is longer then generally speaking it will play more upright because you are standing a little further away from it. But height has no bearing on lie angle. I've fitted tall people into flat and upright lies. It all depends on how you deliver the club through impact (or the dynamic lie that I talk about in the video) everyone will be different and therefore need a different lie angle 👍
How much of a bend would/should be noticeable? Maybe 2 or 3+/-
I was wondering, for people who have trouble working the ball, could manipulating the lie help them?
Hey Richard, I mean there's a few variables to unpack there, in theory yes, but I definitely would not advise to go down that route. Lie angle affects turf interaction and initial start direction. So let's say you want to play a draw, but your delivery is out to in, which is super common....so would you go more upright, which would start the ball left, or more flat, which would start the ball right? If we want a functional draw we need the ball starting to the right but if we have an out to in path that isn't going to happen regardless of lie. I mean it could start right with an out to in path of course with the face being open to the path but that would just be a slice essentially as the ball would curve right. So long story short, shape the ball by being skilled with your clubs and being able to manipulate your path and then face in relationship to that path. I certainly wouldn't look to lie angle to help that.
My lie is 67 dregree and I'm NEVER left. It all depends on where u place the club and follow thru according to your targets. For me lie play with how much ground interaction I want in my shot.
Depends on the person and the geometric shapes of their build along with the dynamics of their swing. The clubs should adjust to you and not the other way around.
Depends if you compensate for it. So if you have very upright clubs but then you stand up taller, higher hands, closer to the ball, you're more likely to hit a fade because that setup puts you in position to fade. But if you kept that same upright lie angle but stayed bent over in a lower posture with lower hands, you'd hook like crazy
Your ball position seems to be way up for a 6 iron, am I right or just a camera angle?
Think it was a 7 iron from memory but could be wrong 🤔😂 but yes I play my ball position very far forward in relation to what most people would consider a traditional ball position for a mid iron. Its probably where most people would play their 3 wood or even driver
I’m torn. I just finished a club fitting. I’m mid handicap. I was recommended 4 upright. The instructor said if I plan to improve my swing and golf more, that maybe 2 upright would be ok (as I am chopping steep down on the ball) any tips on what to choose? I want a club that I can grow into rather than grow out of. If 4 upright is going to force me to continue an ugly swing I don’t want that but, but if 4 is still an acceptable angle than maybe. This stuff is overwhelming and isn’t a cheap mistake to make if I make the wrong choice :(
Hey Caden, where abouts in the world are you? Happy to help as much as I can, if we can arrange a time for a call we can talk through your game, what happened in the fitting, what you see on course, what clubs you were recommended, and I can try and advise you the best I can.
Also do you have the data from the fitting? If not then ask for it and send it over to me: ross@epgolfstudios.co.uk
That will also help me advise.
You can find all of our contact details on our website: www.epgolfstudios.co.uk
But probably what I would suggest is get a decent set (forged) that can be bent without too many issues and go 3* upright. Then if you do change they will be able to be bent back to standard.
But changing your lie at impact, so how much tow down you are, is probably one of the hardest things to change, even practising twice a week on the right things it would still probably take around a year to consistently change how you deliver the club .
@@epgolfstudios thank you for the help! I think I am going to go with 3 upright. I was fitted based on the “Mazuno JPX 923” however, I plan to purchase the “Takomo 101T” which I have not hit yet. I was told a stiff shaft with my swing speed of 85-87. This was all based on a 7 iron. I am hoping the lie angle will work well and Cary over across all my irons outside of wedges. Worst case is if not I can have the other irons bent to the right angle. I am not skilled enough yet to be this picky but hopefully soon. Next thing to figure out is my wedges. I have heard wedges you want to be be standard is this true?
@@CadenMichnal no problem. Are the Takomo irons fully forged? I don't know too much about those. But as long as they can be bent 👍 out of interest is it just the cost why you are going for Takomo over Mizuno?
And stiff is is not enough to go on 😂 you can get a 90g stiff, which isn't really that stiff, or a 130g stiff that will play very stiff. 2 completely different shafts..but both 'stiff'. Weight is more important than flex so make sure you get that one right. And for lie angles in wedges it would depend on your miss but if you are going 3* upright in irons I'd go 2* upright in wedges
@@epgolfstudios The Takomo 101T model is a hallow body design. Yes, cost is exactly it. I’ve seen lots of reviews of these clubs. They are compared and stack up against the Mazuno I got fitted for, also similar to the Ping i525, or the Taylor made p790. Takomo are directly sourced to the buyer so you don’t have to pay for the name. Irons from them 4-P are around 600 rather than 1,300. It’s a risk forsure but reviews look promising. What is your take on wedge lie angle? Should I do same lie angle for wedges too?
Yeah that is a lot cheaper. Sounds fair enough! In your wedges I would go 2* upright 👍
How much can it affect at wood’s ball flight?
Could be another test 👀👀 but not as much as irons. the more loft the more lie angle will affect start direction. So with driver it's pretty marginal. But it's certainly a consideration when looking at the compounding effect of multiple tweaks to get the desired outcome
Hi Ross if you don’t like the look of the club being to upright subconsciously would your brain take over and deliver the club handle high therefore reducing the upright angle 👍🏴
Hi Wayne, very good question!! And in all honesty I think everyone would be different. But my honest opinion is for the most part no. Most golfers are handle raisers due to lack of rotation and early extension because that's the easiest move to make, rather than staying in posture, clearing the hips and rotating. But it certainly would be a very good thing to an in depth study on, although how exactly you would go about that in a scientific manor would be pretty tricky!
@@epgolfstudios hi Ross thanks for feedback I think trying different shafts could make a difference with bend profile making it toe down 👍🏴
Yup also very true mate. But I wouldn't fit shaft based off dynamic lie. We could just tweak lie angle for that. As long as all parts come together for the right result then we're happy 👌👌
Have you ever considered that 62° is actually quite upright? Some argue that the industry standard really should be 60°.
@@MD-ww4bh no I do think 62 is fine. I'd say 80% of players deliver it toe down at impact, and probably 70-80% of average golfers miss right. If anything there's an argument it should be more upright rather than flat imo
does bending lie affect the strength of the shaft at the hozel at all? I had 2 flat for a long time but have broken 3 irons at the hozel, 0 broken irons at standard. Not sure if it's related, but since I miss left a ton, id love to get them bent to 2 flat again
If they have been bent multiple times then yes it can affect strength but if it's only once it twice then that shouldn't be an issue for premium irons. Maybe if a cast of cheaper brand then possibly you may have issues. I've clean snapped a few cheaper brands when trying to bend them.
@@epgolfstudios Shoot, do Maltby and Takomo qualify as cheaper? 😬
@@PJo336 hmmm, to be completely honest I'm not sure as I haven't had personal experience with those brands. I'm sure they are better than the cheap brands I am thinking of, but maybe not quite up there with the best in the biz
@@epgolfstudios Gotcha, thanks for the insight! All my shots look like your 4 degree upright, so I think I'll give flatter a spin
@@PJo336 yes 100% 🙌👍
That's why i question electronics: perfect angles with first couple shots standard lie except a bit heelstrike - still draw. Shouldn't heel strike produce fade? Something odd there. Nothings beats outdoor testing and reading divots, watch flight, coupled with impact tape to see where you actually hit the ball on the face. That is true information.
First one the face was way too closed to the path and heel strike was extremely marginal. That would certainly always draw.
Second one was slightly more heely but again face still definitely too closed to the path and the gear effect from a 7 iron would generally not be too bad especially with that type of club. More likely to just get the face gearing closed from the heel strike and not the curve back.
Plus it always looks way worse on the quad than it feels, a lot of people would have felt those as centred strikes.
I certainly have never questioned anything I've seen on quad in years of testing.
But I agree I would love to see ball flight and hit off grass, would be amazing, unfortunately just not do-able.
In fittings we switch balls all the time to optimize performance, something you just couldn't do on a range.
The goal would be to have a private range one day to fit on but we need a lot more money for that 😂😂
This is exactly what people need to see, really highlights how club fitting can help them dial those irons in. Rather than chasing around trying to adapt a swing to a club then get the swing carved out and then fit the irons properly fitted. 👍🏻⛳️🏌🏻
Strangely, when my lie angles are a little flat I tend to react and hit it left. ???
Yeah could be you adjusting at set up and creating a different impact position possibly....almost impossible to say really and always just comes back to testing out what's best for you and getting fitted as everyone reacts differently to different things
What if I’m using a curling iron
If you can hit a golf ball with a curling iron then you are a complete legend
Dude, if everything is going off the heel, would that mean my clubs are too upright?
Hmm very very slight chance. I would say it's for more likely just something going on in the swing mate. As I say in the video the main thing for me with lie angle is start direction. If you're consistently mis-striking it then you're always better off looking at the swing really. Unless you're playing some sort of crazy set up which is maybe like 1.5" long with a super heavy shaft and mega heavy swingweight. If it's a pretty standard set up it's more likely just something in the swing
@@epgolfstudios I just ordered a club 2* flat. Going to put this experiment to the test. Thank you for your feedback. Have a good one! ⛳️
Looks like your flat lies are much better for accuracy
It would have been interesting to see the pattern if you placed a piece of tape on the sole. It seems that the standard set up produced a lot of heel strikes. This tells me you require an upright adjustment. Let try this again with some tape.
Actually, maybe I have it backwards. Either way the tape would be a good visual of how the club is passing thru the hit zone.
Hey Chuck, no need for tape anymore bud, the GC Quad shows us the exact dynamic lie angle through impact.
Correct upright did give me a slightly better strike but I would never game upright as everything just goes wayy left. I'd rather have a slight heel strike and a straight ball flight. Then work on my swing as to why I'm getting the heel strike and sort it out.
True, GC Quad is probably much better than tape. It was a very interesting test. I really enjoy your videos. You provide information no one else does. Looking forward to whatever you do next!
@@chucksmerdon6256 thanks Chuck 👍👍
Id say 2 degrees flat would be perfect for you after this vid
Yup! This was a while ago now tbf but I play 3* flat at the mo but my swing has come a way since this vid and prob wouldn't have to play 3* flat but love the way it looks and the protection against the left 👌👍
8 degree difference result proves 1 degree difference doesn't matter.
I agree 1 degree is very marginal and won't have a huge effect on outcome
Going to be honest, I was trying to listen to this video, but you bury the lead too much. Just have to have tighter editing mate.
Completely agree Jack, certainly something I've been working on. One things for sure, I'm not a video editor!! 🤣 Unfortunately can't afford to pay anyone to do it so I'm trying to learn and so the best I can, think my newer videos are getting better 🤞
You Brits sure like to talk a lot. Totally lost me with 22 minutes of non stop words.
We do like to talk. Information is key though and there is a lot of bad info out there. So I always do my best to be as detailed as possible for everyone watching to make sure people fully understand everything I am touching on.
It was the 30 seconds of fidgety pre shot routine for me 😵💫
Whats with the weird exhale laugh? So annoying to listen to this guy !!!
Although this is just a stupid comment it is actually something I'm trying to do less, but generally if I laugh it's because I've found something slightly amusing, crazy I know...
Nothing wrong with it - enjoyed the vid much! Thank you
@@mfluentz1378 Thank you 👍