I must say that stumbling upon your RUclips videos, have answered many questions of mine. Even the individuals in the comment section plays a huge role in my question as it pertains to Irons. ELITE!
Nothing feels like a Mizuno! So, do you ever use heat in the process? I would think it would help the cast clubs withstand the pressures better without sacrificing the grain structure.
I just wanted to say that your content is awesome. I used to work in a clubmaking workshop and you really know your stuff. Hope you soon get the subs and views you deserve.
Like you said, surprising how far that cast club went. Back when I worked in a golf shop, since I was bending other people's clubs, I was usually pretty conservative with what I said I could bend. I think I told them maybe 1 or 2 degrees for a cast club and 3 or 4 for a forged club. For Pings, I remember trying once or twice, but I had to put so much force on them to get barely any bend, that I wasn't comfortable with it, so I eventually started recommending people go through Ping for adjustments. The shop didn't have an official waiver process like Ping does when you make a repair order, so I didn't want to be on the hook for anything breaking.
I still adhere to those amounts. I was shocked how much the cast club bent but would never do that with someone else's clubs or my own for that matter. And like you said, would not even bother with older Ping stuff.
The cracking sound of the cast club is rather familiar! Obviously steel work hardens as it is bent and once it gets hard enough it will break, I broke quite a few years ago from bending them back and forth doing idiotic experiments LOL. A couple years ago I bent some cast clubs upright some as much as 10 degrees or so by bending a few degrees at a time and then heat treating the heads to anneal them. I heat treated them by putting them in a little enclosure I made out of brick and then heating them with a couple of propane torches until they glowed cherry red. After that I closed the enclosure and let them cool very slowly. I could feel the bend stop after a two or three degrees and would know that it was time to heat treat again. LOL Just thought I would mention my experience not that anybody cares! .
Another interesting video AJ. I had my clubs bent twice in the past - 2 deg flat, both sets were cast clubs. The first set had chrome finish and all was fine. The second set had satin finish. A few of the irons showed some sort of surface (coating) cracks near the neck after the bending. Perhaps chrome finish is more durable and can take more punishment.
Very interesting and thank you for the video! I think the manufacturer always play a bit tad conservative with how far the iron can be bent. But sometimes, the pro shop or golf store will also play a bit conservative as they don't want to damage the club. Most times I just ask the club to be bent to their default lies/loft,... may be a video to test how much the loft/lie angle can change after playing with them for a year? Steel is typically where we might have issues.
My club pro has always given me grief about bending my clubs. I'm five six and according to every fitting I have done, with my height and swing, my clubs should be 2.25° flat! Now I have ammunition to reassure him it will be fine. Thanks again.
If he is in any way skeptical about doing it, I would find a club builder who is used to doing it. Club pros are not club builders and if he hasn't bent many clubs I wouldn't use him for this.
This is the reason I play soft carbon steel irons now. I typically need 3-4 degrees bending and most soft forged irons bend so easy. I've used some of those high cor irons that have a thin face forged into a softer body but they typically heat treat the whole head after the fact and it makes the body firmer as well making it difficult to bend. I've had my share of snapped hosels on the bending machine over the years.
@@EFGMC yeah Ive bent my share of cast heads 3-4 degrees. Some will snap at 2 degrees and others will make it further but it's always a gamble. Never had a forged carbon steel head break though. My anxiety goes through the roof trying to bend someone else's cast clubs though 😂
One thing I learned from having irons bent is that is often the reason there is one (or more) clubs in a set that allow for hitting the ball straighter. I long ago established that 1 degree flat from factory specs works for me. In more than one instance the preferred club(s) are already at 1 degree flat from factory specs. I have never even thought about having lofts checked because I have never had a swing that allowed me to hit any club a specific distance.
Stainless steel DOES have a slight spring effect. They have to be overbent slightly. They then instantly snap back a little. Since this is all when the club is still in the machine, it isn't a problem. You can figure out where it has ended up and adjust farther if necessary. Forged clubs don't have any spring back. They stay exactly where they were moved.
Thanks. Awesome video. I've been trying to get someone to bend my irons 2 degrees flat but since they are stainless steel cast, no one will do it so far. I'm encouraged to keep asking around. I've only gone to three shops. They are game improvement steel irons.
Not all steel is the same and they may not bend, but it should be pretty simple for someone who knows what they are doing to at least try and see if they want to budge.
Keep in mind there IS a difference in Mizuno forgings. They use a longer bar and forge the hosel and clubhead at the same time so the grain is uninterupted from the tip of the hosel to the end of the clubface. Most others forge the clubhead and hosel SEPARATELY and "spin weld" the hosel onto the clubhead. This MAY cause "spin welded" forged hosels to break earlier than the Mizuno you used.
Good video, I too work on clubs ( Maltby Lie/Loft machine ) ( part time hobby ) and have snapped cast clubs. One time years ago I purchased around a dozen different make and model cast clubs to mess with and bust to check how much bend I could get away with, oh I wish I had thought to video the fun me and my buddy had doing damage to the clubs. PS have you ever done a video on bending Hybrids clubs and Hybrid irons, that would be interesting to me, as it is something I don't have the equipment for but might get if Santa is good to me, I would love to see what you do and think on this process. Thanks for any reply.
Hybrids are tricky, even with the equipment. The hosel is thinner and I am always worried about warping them during a bend. I've got a couple cheap heads lying around, might have to film a follow up as you suggest.
Great video. I recently ordered a set of MP20-MB irons 2* flat and 2* strong (to match HMB lofts) and going to blend them into HMB’s. Typically my irons are 1* flat with wedges 2* flat expecting to make some loft and lie adjustments once I can test properly after U.K. lockdown!
I think lie angle is an interesting one as like most things in the golf industry “standard” varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. Mizuno “standard” typically 1* flatter than say Titelist “standard”. Bit like shaft flex.
Great video! Good to know. I have an old set of 762's I was thinking about having bent to "modern" specs just for fun. I don't really care if they're broken in the process. But I don't want to pay to have them broke🤣 we'll see.
Depends on the tool used and the bar used. Softer heads are easy to mar if you don’t have a brass jawed bar. Also can get small dimples on the sole if not very careful. Sometimes even with care, small marks are unavoidable.
Most component companies Golfworks Dynacraft KZG use a 431 stainless in their cast clubs. More than 2 or 3 is risky. Most OEMs are married to 17-4 for their cast clubs. Up until a few years ago Ping was exclusively 17.4 even in their “better players”line. 17.4 is extremely hard to bend even on the higher dollar Mitchell machines. Or maybe I need to spend more time min the gym!
A J love your Chanel. I’m a mid 80 golfer and I’m wanting to try forge clubs. Now I’m talking iron heads only. Can you recommend one. Now I don’t want a real expensive because if I don’t like them and then on the other hand no cheapy that may not give me a true forged head feeling. Maybe a shaft also. I will assemble them myself.
If you're just looking for heads, you might try something like Maltby from Golfworks. They have some beautiful forged heads. Shafts I would need much more info about what you currently use, distances, price, steel v graphite.
Excellent video...very well explained...quick question : I need to bend a putter shaft to a 30*shaft bend on single bend shaft..not pos about the actual * it came with.. the putter head was designed by a TM guy, with a reverse angle socket of about 30*... why it was designed like this is beyond me, but you may be aware of sockets that start the shaft leaning away from the golfer... a 90* socket would have been better IMO. any ideas how to bend this shaft, as it is too upright ?? Thanks
Think I have this pictured in my head. So the putter stem (socket) is pointing towards the toe of the putter? That being the case, you can bend the stem back towards 90 degrees with a bending bar or even try a mallet with a piece of wood between or use a polymer head mallet to not damage the stem. Clamp the head in a vise and see what you can do. If you have a putter bending jig that would of course be helpful but not necessary. Also guessing this putter is face balanced which it will likely no longer be if you make this adjustment, fyi.
Different stainless steel alloys will bend different amounts. 17-4 stainless will hardly bend at all. It was used for early steel drivers and is still used for fairway woods and hybrids especially away from the face. Their faces can sometimes be maraging steel or something else. There is also 15-5, 431, and 304 stainless steel. 304 stainless steel is as soft as forged iron heads. 431 is relatively soft. 15-5 and 17-4 are harder. As an example of a softer alloy, Titleist AP1 cast iron heads will bend fairly easily. They are probably 431.
When getting near the limits of the bend (whatever that may be for the type of head), would one run into an issue with the hosel warping and compromising the shaft epoxy? I ask because I play forged one-length clubs, all at 37.5" length, bent up to 65° from the stock 62.5° (and the corresponding loft readjustment) and have had issues with the heads coming off since the first bend. Must add that this was done professionally.
2 or 3 degrees bending should not cause any structural issues with the hosel or the epoxy bond. I bend plenty of clubs that amount and have not had that issue (sometimes the same set multiple bends). Most likely the epoxy was already in a bad state and the bending just sped up what was probably going to happen regardless.
@@EFGMC I didn't think that it would cause an issue either, especially as the clubs were new from factory. The guy who did the adjustment had many years experience and came well recommended. But it was he who suggested that 3° could be enough to warp the hosel which could cause separation. Thanks for answering so quick too, really enjoying the channel!
Would applying heat to the club with a torch make it easier to bend and prevent the club from breaking? The only issue I am thinking with applying heat up the club is for the shaft to come off once the glue melted. I have irons (cast stainless steel) that are 3 degrees upright (Ping green dot) that I want to reduce the lie angle by 2 degrees flatter as I'm older and the swing has gotten flatter. I went to a local golf store but was told that stainless steel irons with time will return to its original casted lie angle, which I found it hard to believe. I think they just didn't want to be responsible if the irons break while bending them.
Metal does not move on it's own. That was a complete lie or just dumb. Ping irons are extremely hard to bend in some cases so they may have just not wanted to try it. I have yet to see any good proof that heat will help this process. In fact everything I have read indicates that it actually will make the club more brittle long term.
Question, can (you) take my Callaway Rogue ST max irons from standard degree, to one degree flatter on the lie, and one degree more on the loft. If this is possible, I know you're the person for it.
AJ, any tips on protecting the finish, top line, and sole on softer heads while bending? Too many times have I taken irons to get adjusted after 1/2-full season of play and they come back all marred up and dented from tool marks.
Best advise would be to cover those contact surfaces with some brass sleeves to minimize marring. At the end of the day however some metals and finishes just aren't very tough and you just have to live with it or hang them on the wall.
You are assuming the score lines on the face are parallel to the sole of the iron. That isn't always the case. It is better to make sure the sole is flat against the stops and the face is centered in the machine.
But that is just as difficult and still requires an amount of faith in the OEM since the soles all have heel to toe camber and the only way I know how to center the face horizontally is using the edge of the scoring lines. In my mind it's just as likely the scoring lines are incorrectly positioned horizontally as they are parallel to the sole. That's my take at least.
I am considering buying used ping g710 irons with 2* upright. I would need them to be back to „normal“. Did you ever tried to bend these kind of irons?
Hi mate. Nice job. Would it be dommageable to change the loft of my Vokey SM8 from 52deg to 50deg ? What about bounce and sole relation to thé ground during the swing ? Cheers.
Yes you can. Bounce would drop 2 degrees and offset would increase. I don't think the bounce would be an issue unless you really dig down with your wedges.
I would love to see a video of bending back and fourth like one guy bends 2° flat then 1° upright then sells them and next guy bends 4° flat and then back upright and see what happens and even before they fail hit them and see if they are still solid and playable
I think it would be iron dependent. I have sets of clubs that I have bent 5 times over a couple seasons because they go off spec and are just very soft.
AJ…I follow your feed and just came across this vid; what about changing loft? or at least checking it periodically? Does playing potentially change the loft/lie on forged clubs? Thx
Yes, irons can go out of spec for both loft and lie. Certain clubs are very soft and are far more likely to move. Also if you hit off a lot of mats you can get more movement.
Hey so I have a quick question, so I bought a 2iron Taylormade 3degrees upright and I went to dicks to get it bent 1degree flat since it was to much and when they were bending it, they over bent it so they immediately bent it back and a crackling noise was made, I was wondering if I should be worried or should I be good and not worry? No cracks or marks are on the head
I live in australia i have a set of mizuno jlx 825pro i cant find a second hand set here in oz can you still get them in the usa or would you recomend that i upgrade to mizuno 919 hot metal i love my jpx825 pro so much my problem is if i buy 2nd hand set have to take to club fitter to fit me and cost will be around $100 per club and also club fitters are a dying trade in australia hard to find em anymore becuase of big club companies
I have 30 year old Ping Zing (Cast) irons U bought used before I understood Lie Angle importance. I need lie angle adjusted 3° from 1° Flat (Red Dot) to 2° upright (Green Dot) I can send to Ping but due to their age (30+ years) they won't guarantee they will survive. A local spinnaker is willing to adjust the lie but again won't guarantee. Do you think the risk of damage is large? Enjiy your videos
Thanks. Ping, and especially old Ping were very very difficult to bend. I would only recommend sending to Ping although they aren't giving you much confidence either it sounds like. My guess would be 60% chance it goes fine, %40 chance of issue. Having some random guy try it, I'd reverse those odds.
I'm looking to get my 2018 Costco Callaway Edge iron lie angles adjusted to +2*. I'm assuming they are cast. Do you think those could go 2* without snapping? Thanks!
They should be fine if done by someone who knows what they’re doing. Can’t say if they will be able to get 2 out of them, but you can usually tell when a club doesn’t want to go any further unless it was a really crappy casting.
Love the videos. I have been fit a few times for irons and given standard lie angles and lengths. My mizuno jpx 919 forged have a low trajectory especially in the longer irons. Discovered recently my wingspan finger tip to finger tip is 70.5 inches and my height is 66 inches. My wrist to floor is 31 inches also... I am wondering have you ever adjusted irons for lie and length for someone with similar measurements? And does loft need to be adjusted with the changes in lie angle? Any info would be very much appreciated thanks
Would it be reasonable for me to expect to find a club fitter to be able to bend my Taylormade M4 2018 cast irons? They are new and have been used 2 times and I feel like they need a 1 or 2 degree adjustment flat.
No don't do that. From what I have read and been told (as I am not a blacksmith), it does not help and you will actually weaken the metal structure making it more brittle.
I have some old paying g5s which I really like with the lofts are not up to modern day standards. I asked my club fitter if he could make them 2° stronger and he said that iron would not do that it would break. Is that true or is it just a possibility?
Interesting. I’ve been playing Callaway Pro irons for several years. Last year, after many back and forth emails with my local Club Champion where I was fitted for these irons and new shafts at more than $1,000, I wanted the loft and lies checked. They reluctantly agreed. They checked the lofts and had me swing only a 6 iron, said the lie was ok; never checked any of the other irons and then told me they can’t bend cast clubs!
@@EFGMC needless to say, but I won’t be going to Club Champion for my next fitting. I’ll be trying True Spec or Cool Clubs which are close by. Customer service counts!
@@barrycohen9430 I've seen some questionable fittings come out of True Spec. They seem to use all the same tricks that Club Champion employs. Heard of fewer Cool Clubs fittings, but they seem better at least from what I've heard.
Most cast clubs can be bent however the amount can vary greatly from model to model. Often the big stores like that don't want to run the risk of some novice snapping one of your irons so they just say no.
@@vharrald 4 or 5 degrees is going to make any club builder flinch. I would never promise I could get that, would just have to try and see what the club gives me.
how accurate are scoring lines as far as being parallel to the sole of the club? I swear I've had some clubs where the scoring lines aren't quite level with the sole, maybe I'm crazy though
It can happen, but I would say most are going to be very close. If you have a level and you know your bending rig is level, you could always double check.
Was looking to get a nicer set of clubs. I have a set from when I was like 17 and now im 23. I used to play baseball so my mechanics are pretty good and I can swing it pretty good and I make solid contact. Wanted to know if there are some good clubs that will give me more reason to go out and play. I dont need a pro set but id like a nice set. Ive been looking at the Cobra steel set and the Strata Callaway set but I am worried with how fast I swing the club that the shaft on the Stratas might not hold up.
The starter sets in general will not be as durable as more expensive clubs that you buy not as a complete set. I think it's reasonable to believe the shafts in the Stratas may not hold up well over time. If you are trying to keep it within a reasonable budget I would be looking at couple year old models or used clubs. Cobra in general sees a pretty good price drop when they move onto a new model. Callaway has a pre-owned site where you can get used, and like new equipment at really good prices depending on sales. I buy a good bit from that site and am always impressed with the condition of the clubs.
Very cool video! I had cast irons (Rogue Xs) that were 2 degrees weak when I bought them used. I had the golf store bend them to standard. After a few weeks I noticed that I was suddenly hitting my irons much shorter and I went back to the golf store and had them checked and they told me they had returned to their previous lofts. Is it true that cast irons will do that?
A lot depends on what your idea of much shorter is. There is an easy way to determine if that golf store was being honest with you. Have the clubs measured at another golf store.
@@ammartinezguzman Much more likely to happen with forged clubs, and still very hard to believe. And even harder to believe that every club would be altered in the same way.
Dude I've been bending for a decade, I use Mitchell benders not the junk from GW you have. I've never had a club move in the vise, never. Think you're going way over board on this and, I would recommend buying Mitchell benders if this club moving in the vise happens to you as many times as you said.
Dude. I've seen it happen and heard plenty of people talk about heads moving back after bending (on a Mitchell). Sounds like you have a vested interest in Mitchell. They are solid, but anyone who thinks the tool is more important than the hands holding it, is wrong!
OK, I'm a bit late but to kill a good Mizuno could get you indicted. Well, shooting it dead would have been alright of course in the US of A but bending its daylight out is not humane and that's a nono. Regards !
I tried to get a club maker to supply a 64o lob wedge (forged) with a70o lie angle from about 64o. Said he wouldn’t go more than 3o as it would effect bounce. Would you agree.
Lie angle has zero effect on bounce. Loft changes will change the bounce an equal amount so if you add loft, you add the same number of bounce in degrees.
Old Pings are notoriously difficult to bend. Don't think you could ever get more than 1 degree out of them if that. I would contact Ping to see if they would do it. That being said, I would not recommend bending those clubs 4 degrees stronger as you will remove all the bounce built into them.
After I had lie angle adjustment at shop for my forged iron, all my irons got little ding mark right above iron number on the iron sole. Is it normal??
Yes. Soft irons will often get slight indentations from where the bending machine contact points sit (usually 2 marks). I know some people will try and use thin pieces of brass or similar to minimize this but I personally don't. Those marks don't change anything.
Maybe. That's above my pay grade. Would need an engineer or blacksmith to help with that answer. My guess is not enough to make it worth the effort though.
No. This is an idea that floats around but is not accurate. A club can bend from being used repeatedly although this is more often the case with softer forged clubs. The more likely senecio with cast clubs, is the head moves in the bending jig during the process without the individual noticing. They measure it and see it as bent, but it in fact is just sitting crooked in the clamp.
I must say that stumbling upon your RUclips videos, have answered many questions of mine. Even the individuals in the comment section plays a huge role in my question as it pertains to Irons. ELITE!
Nothing feels like a Mizuno! So, do you ever use heat in the process? I would think it would help the cast clubs withstand the pressures better without sacrificing the grain structure.
I don't let idiots work on my clubs. I watch people like you AJ and learn to do it.
That was fun and entertaining as well as informative. I have a need to go flatter on some of my clubs. That's why I came here. Great video.
I just wanted to say that your content is awesome. I used to work in a clubmaking workshop and you really know your stuff. Hope you soon get the subs and views you deserve.
I appreciate the support!
Like you said, surprising how far that cast club went. Back when I worked in a golf shop, since I was bending other people's clubs, I was usually pretty conservative with what I said I could bend. I think I told them maybe 1 or 2 degrees for a cast club and 3 or 4 for a forged club. For Pings, I remember trying once or twice, but I had to put so much force on them to get barely any bend, that I wasn't comfortable with it, so I eventually started recommending people go through Ping for adjustments. The shop didn't have an official waiver process like Ping does when you make a repair order, so I didn't want to be on the hook for anything breaking.
I still adhere to those amounts. I was shocked how much the cast club bent but would never do that with someone else's clubs or my own for that matter. And like you said, would not even bother with older Ping stuff.
Enjoyed the vid! this de-bugs the myth that most club repairer say that you cant bend a cavity back club more than 2*.
well I think they don't want to be responsible for breaking it, got to keep it safe.
Loved the Homer impression, great content from AJ as always. Thank you.
The cracking sound of the cast club is rather familiar! Obviously steel work hardens as it is bent and once it gets hard enough it will break, I broke quite a few years ago from bending them back and forth doing idiotic experiments LOL. A couple years ago I bent some cast clubs upright some as much as 10 degrees or so by bending a few degrees at a time and then heat treating the heads to anneal them. I heat treated them by putting them in a little enclosure I made out of brick and then heating them with a couple of propane torches until they glowed cherry red. After that I closed the enclosure and let them cool very slowly. I could feel the bend stop after a two or three degrees and would know that it was time to heat treat again. LOL Just thought I would mention my experience not that anybody cares! .
Another interesting video AJ. I had my clubs bent twice in the past - 2 deg flat, both sets were cast clubs. The first set had chrome finish and all was fine. The second set had satin finish. A few of the irons showed some sort of surface (coating) cracks near the neck after the bending.
Perhaps chrome finish is more durable and can take more punishment.
You're right. Chrome is by far the most durable golf club finish, other than raw, which I guess technically is the lack of finish?!?
Very interesting and thank you for the video! I think the manufacturer always play a bit tad conservative with how far the iron can be bent. But sometimes, the pro shop or golf store will also play a bit conservative as they don't want to damage the club. Most times I just ask the club to be bent to their default lies/loft,... may be a video to test how much the loft/lie angle can change after playing with them for a year? Steel is typically where we might have issues.
I get it. Golf shops would rather not chance breaks as no one would be happy with that.
Great video AJ, thank you as always.
My club pro has always given me grief about bending my clubs. I'm five six and according to every fitting I have done, with my height and swing, my clubs should be 2.25° flat! Now I have ammunition to reassure him it will be fine. Thanks again.
If he is in any way skeptical about doing it, I would find a club builder who is used to doing it. Club pros are not club builders and if he hasn't bent many clubs I wouldn't use him for this.
This is the reason I play soft carbon steel irons now. I typically need 3-4 degrees bending and most soft forged irons bend so easy. I've used some of those high cor irons that have a thin face forged into a softer body but they typically heat treat the whole head after the fact and it makes the body firmer as well making it difficult to bend. I've had my share of snapped hosels on the bending machine over the years.
I was shocked that I got as much as I did from the cast head!
@@EFGMC yeah Ive bent my share of cast heads 3-4 degrees. Some will snap at 2 degrees and others will make it further but it's always a gamble. Never had a forged carbon steel head break though. My anxiety goes through the roof trying to bend someone else's cast clubs though 😂
@@kourt2469 Whenever a Ping would come through the door. Shiver!
One thing I learned from having irons bent is that is often the reason there is one (or more) clubs in a set that allow for hitting the ball straighter. I long ago established that 1 degree flat from factory specs works for me.
In more than one instance the preferred club(s) are already at 1 degree flat from factory specs.
I have never even thought about having lofts checked because I have never had a swing that allowed me to hit any club a specific distance.
Could be good to check they flow nicely
Thanks for all your videos AJ! 🙏
Stainless steel DOES have a slight spring effect. They have to be overbent slightly. They then instantly snap back a little. Since this is all when the club is still in the machine, it isn't a problem. You can figure out where it has ended up and adjust farther if necessary. Forged clubs don't have any spring back. They stay exactly where they were moved.
Thanks. Awesome video. I've been trying to get someone to bend my irons 2 degrees flat but since they are stainless steel cast, no one will do it so far. I'm encouraged to keep asking around. I've only gone to three shops. They are game improvement steel irons.
Not all steel is the same and they may not bend, but it should be pretty simple for someone who knows what they are doing to at least try and see if they want to budge.
Keep in mind there IS a difference in Mizuno forgings. They use a longer bar and forge the hosel and clubhead at the same time so the grain is uninterupted from the tip of the hosel to the end of the clubface. Most others forge the clubhead and hosel SEPARATELY and "spin weld" the hosel onto the clubhead. This MAY cause "spin welded" forged hosels to break earlier than the Mizuno you used.
Good video, I too work on clubs ( Maltby Lie/Loft machine ) ( part time hobby ) and have snapped cast clubs. One time years ago I purchased around a dozen different make and model cast clubs to mess with and bust to check how much bend I could get away with, oh I wish I had thought to video the fun me and my buddy had doing damage to the clubs. PS have you ever done a video on bending Hybrids clubs and Hybrid irons, that would be interesting to me, as it is something I don't have the equipment for but might get if Santa is good to me, I would love to see what you do and think on this process. Thanks for any reply.
Hybrids are tricky, even with the equipment. The hosel is thinner and I am always worried about warping them during a bend. I've got a couple cheap heads lying around, might have to film a follow up as you suggest.
Very educational.thank you
Your doing great on your videos! "We really enjoy it" made me subscribe
Thanks for the support!
Great video. I recently ordered a set of MP20-MB irons 2* flat and 2* strong (to match HMB lofts) and going to blend them into HMB’s. Typically my irons are 1* flat with wedges 2* flat expecting to make some loft and lie adjustments once I can test properly after U.K. lockdown!
I like the sounds of that setup!
I think lie angle is an interesting one as like most things in the golf industry “standard” varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. Mizuno “standard” typically 1* flatter than say Titelist “standard”. Bit like shaft flex.
@@seancook2264 True. That's why everyone should be checking their own lie angles with a sharpie for the particular club they're in.
Great video! Good to know. I have an old set of 762's I was thinking about having bent to "modern" specs just for fun. I don't really care if they're broken in the process. But I don't want to pay to have them broke🤣 we'll see.
Great video, love the analysis of the two options
Thanks for the support!
such great content! thanks AJ
Thanks for the support!
Good video. Do clubs have marks on them if it was bended by 1 degree? Perhaps marks caused by the tools used?
Depends on the tool used and the bar used. Softer heads are easy to mar if you don’t have a brass jawed bar. Also can get small dimples on the sole if not very careful. Sometimes even with care, small marks are unavoidable.
Most component companies Golfworks Dynacraft KZG use a 431 stainless in their cast clubs. More than 2 or 3 is risky. Most OEMs are married to 17-4 for their cast clubs. Up until a few years ago Ping was exclusively 17.4 even in their “better players”line. 17.4 is extremely hard to bend even on the higher dollar Mitchell machines. Or maybe I need to spend more time min the gym!
Love your chanel.
excellent presentation
Thank you!
A J love your Chanel. I’m a mid 80 golfer and I’m wanting to try forge clubs. Now I’m talking iron heads only. Can you recommend one. Now I don’t want a real expensive because if I don’t like them and then on the other hand no cheapy that may not give me a true forged head feeling. Maybe a shaft also. I will assemble them myself.
If you're just looking for heads, you might try something like Maltby from Golfworks. They have some beautiful forged heads.
Shafts I would need much more info about what you currently use, distances, price, steel v graphite.
@@EFGMC thank you. I will take a look at the Maltby and will be getting back to you about shafts later. Thank again
Excellent video...very well explained...quick question : I need to bend a putter shaft to a 30*shaft bend on single bend shaft..not pos about the actual * it came with.. the putter head was designed by a TM guy, with a reverse angle socket of about 30*... why it was designed like this is beyond me, but you may be aware of sockets that start the shaft leaning away from the golfer... a 90* socket would have been better IMO. any ideas how to bend this shaft, as it is too upright ?? Thanks
Think I have this pictured in my head. So the putter stem (socket) is pointing towards the toe of the putter? That being the case, you can bend the stem back towards 90 degrees with a bending bar or even try a mallet with a piece of wood between or use a polymer head mallet to not damage the stem. Clamp the head in a vise and see what you can do. If you have a putter bending jig that would of course be helpful but not necessary.
Also guessing this putter is face balanced which it will likely no longer be if you make this adjustment, fyi.
Different stainless steel alloys will bend different amounts. 17-4 stainless will hardly bend at all. It was used for early steel drivers and is still used for fairway woods and hybrids especially away from the face. Their faces can sometimes be maraging steel or something else. There is also 15-5, 431, and 304 stainless steel. 304 stainless steel is as soft as forged iron heads. 431 is relatively soft. 15-5 and 17-4 are harder. As an example of a softer alloy, Titleist AP1 cast iron heads will bend fairly easily. They are probably 431.
I have wondered if heating the cast irons first with a torch would help the bending without breaking...
I've heard that a couple times. Not sure if it would matter or if you would get more issues from heating the head to a high temp.
It will work but the problem is that you melt the glue in the head and the shaft may come flying out@@EFGMC
Would sitting the club in hot water maybe allow you to bend the hosel more and with less effort?
When getting near the limits of the bend (whatever that may be for the type of head), would one run into an issue with the hosel warping and compromising the shaft epoxy? I ask because I play forged one-length clubs, all at 37.5" length, bent up to 65° from the stock 62.5° (and the corresponding loft readjustment) and have had issues with the heads coming off since the first bend. Must add that this was done professionally.
2 or 3 degrees bending should not cause any structural issues with the hosel or the epoxy bond. I bend plenty of clubs that amount and have not had that issue (sometimes the same set multiple bends). Most likely the epoxy was already in a bad state and the bending just sped up what was probably going to happen regardless.
Done professionally is a pretty broad category. Knowledge and experience can vary widely.
@@EFGMC I didn't think that it would cause an issue either, especially as the clubs were new from factory. The guy who did the adjustment had many years experience and came well recommended. But it was he who suggested that 3° could be enough to warp the hosel which could cause separation. Thanks for answering so quick too, really enjoying the channel!
HI Aj, have you ever bent Ping clubs? If so how much can you get out of them?
Well that would make a cool key chain lol
Maybe necklace also!
Would applying heat to the club with a torch make it easier to bend and prevent the club from breaking? The only issue I am thinking with applying heat up the club is for the shaft to come off once the glue melted. I have irons (cast stainless steel) that are 3 degrees upright (Ping green dot) that I want to reduce the lie angle by 2 degrees flatter as I'm older and the swing has gotten flatter. I went to a local golf store but was told that stainless steel irons with time will return to its original casted lie angle, which I found it hard to believe. I think they just didn't want to be responsible if the irons break while bending them.
Metal does not move on it's own. That was a complete lie or just dumb. Ping irons are extremely hard to bend in some cases so they may have just not wanted to try it.
I have yet to see any good proof that heat will help this process. In fact everything I have read indicates that it actually will make the club more brittle long term.
7 for a cast is a lot... I've never experienced a cast iron that moved that much. Good experiment.
Yeah, I did not see that coming. Probably will do this experiment again with a name brand cast club and see what we get.
Wish you had done a up angle bend
Question, can (you) take my Callaway Rogue ST max irons from standard degree, to one degree flatter on the lie, and one degree more on the loft. If this is possible, I know you're the person for it.
You should be able to do 1 degree.
AJ, any tips on protecting the finish, top line, and sole on softer heads while bending? Too many times have I taken irons to get adjusted after 1/2-full season of play and they come back all marred up and dented from tool marks.
Best advise would be to cover those contact surfaces with some brass sleeves to minimize marring. At the end of the day however some metals and finishes just aren't very tough and you just have to live with it or hang them on the wall.
Probably a stupid question - are the iron lie angles consistent through the set, or change as the clubs lengthen?
Yes, the angle increases as the club gets shorter. Most clubs move in .5 degree increments.
😂 enjoyed that!
Have you ever tried making a chipper out of a 7-8 iron bending them? Was thinking of trying it as I don’t want a chipper that looks like a chipper
Funny you mention that. Video is in the works.
You are assuming the score lines on the face are parallel to the sole of the iron. That isn't always the case. It is better to make sure the sole is flat against the stops and the face is centered in the machine.
But that is just as difficult and still requires an amount of faith in the OEM since the soles all have heel to toe camber and the only way I know how to center the face horizontally is using the edge of the scoring lines. In my mind it's just as likely the scoring lines are incorrectly positioned horizontally as they are parallel to the sole.
That's my take at least.
I am considering buying used ping g710 irons with 2* upright. I would need them to be back to „normal“. Did you ever tried to bend these kind of irons?
Ping in general is very very difficult to bend. Better off sending to Ping and having them adjust them.
Hi mate. Nice job. Would it be dommageable to change the loft of my Vokey SM8 from 52deg to 50deg ? What about bounce and sole relation to thé ground during the swing ? Cheers.
Yes you can. Bounce would drop 2 degrees and offset would increase. I don't think the bounce would be an issue unless you really dig down with your wedges.
Have you tried bending XXIO cast irons? I've the XXIO eleven model irons and would like to bend the AW and PW a couple of degrees stronger lofts.
I have not bent any XXIO irons so can't say what they'd do.
I would love to see a video of bending back and fourth like one guy bends 2° flat then 1° upright then sells them and next guy bends 4° flat and then back upright and see what happens and even before they fail hit them and see if they are still solid and playable
I think it would be iron dependent. I have sets of clubs that I have bent 5 times over a couple seasons because they go off spec and are just very soft.
It's probably basic for people who would look at such a video but it would be nice if you briefly explained why anyone would want to do this, thanks
Great Video Thank you
Thanks for watching and the support!
AJ…I follow your feed and just came across this vid; what about changing loft? or at least checking it periodically? Does playing potentially change the loft/lie on forged clubs? Thx
Yes, irons can go out of spec for both loft and lie. Certain clubs are very soft and are far more likely to move. Also if you hit off a lot of mats you can get more movement.
Would you get any more bend if you applied heat? Maybe with a propane torch?
I've never personally tried it. Heard some people say it works.
So we can guess that Loft bending results should be similar, enough for a typical loft adjust +/- 1 or 2 degrees on a cast iron, isn't?
Correct. If the club is going to move, it will move in any direction for a few degrees. At least as much as someone would reasonably want.
Is that a Golfworks economy bending machine? Thinking of getting one! Would you recommend it?
It is from Golfworks but it's not the economy model. It's the Golf Mechanix Clubmakers model.
Hi, how much would you say that a P790 could be bent upright? Thanks
I wonder if the loft will bend more or less?
Hey so I have a quick question, so I bought a 2iron Taylormade 3degrees upright and I went to dicks to get it bent 1degree flat since it was to much and when they were bending it, they over bent it so they immediately bent it back and a crackling noise was made, I was wondering if I should be worried or should I be good and not worry? No cracks or marks are on the head
I live in australia i have a set of mizuno jlx 825pro i cant find a second hand set here in oz can you still get them in the usa or would you recomend that i upgrade to mizuno 919 hot metal i love my jpx825 pro so much my problem is if i buy 2nd hand set have to take to club fitter to fit me and cost will be around $100 per club and also club fitters are a dying trade in australia hard to find em anymore becuase of big club companies
I have 30 year old Ping Zing (Cast) irons U bought used before I understood Lie Angle importance. I need lie angle adjusted 3° from 1° Flat (Red Dot) to 2° upright (Green Dot) I can send to Ping but due to their age (30+ years) they won't guarantee they will survive. A local spinnaker is willing to adjust the lie but again won't guarantee. Do you think the risk of damage is large?
Enjiy your videos
Thanks. Ping, and especially old Ping were very very difficult to bend. I would only recommend sending to Ping although they aren't giving you much confidence either it sounds like. My guess would be 60% chance it goes fine, %40 chance of issue. Having some random guy try it, I'd reverse those odds.
When we move iron lie angle flatter like 3 degrees. Does the loft weaken too ? Or stronger?
Loft and lie are independent when dealing with irons. Only when we are dealing with adjustable hosel golf clubs do the 2 become linked.
I'm looking to get my 2018 Costco Callaway Edge iron lie angles adjusted to +2*. I'm assuming they are cast. Do you think those could go 2* without snapping? Thanks!
They should be fine if done by someone who knows what they’re doing. Can’t say if they will be able to get 2 out of them, but you can usually tell when a club doesn’t want to go any further unless it was a really crappy casting.
Love the videos. I have been fit a few times for irons and given standard lie angles and lengths. My mizuno jpx 919 forged have a low trajectory especially in the longer irons. Discovered recently my wingspan finger tip to finger tip is 70.5 inches and my height is 66 inches. My wrist to floor is 31 inches also... I am wondering have you ever adjusted irons for lie and length for someone with similar measurements? And does loft need to be adjusted with the changes in lie angle? Any info would be very much appreciated thanks
I would do the straight line test to check the lie angles. Lofts will be independent of lie and should be adjusted separately.
Are you a Chimpanzee?
If you were to pick from 2deg
3deg or more
what degree of change from stock position is safe to move most forged irons on lie & loft?
Lie is easier to move mainly because it's isolated. When you start moving loft, you also need to factor in changes in bounce and offset.
Ah nice!!
Imagin buying all vokeys and bending them to a complete set....Ive always though Vokey should break off and make their own MB style set
Vokeys don't like to bend so it would be a tough road to get anything over 2-3 degrees.
@@EFGMC ahh, well then Vokey should just make a set lol id buy it
@@oldben1800 I would too. Of course they'd probably cost $10K!
@@EFGMC lol ya that would be insane to have a set like that though.
Would it be reasonable for me to expect to find a club fitter to be able to bend my Taylormade M4 2018 cast irons? They are new and have been used 2 times and I feel like they need a 1 or 2 degree adjustment flat.
You should be able to get that out of them. Really just depends on the club maker. Don't assume a fitter knows what they are doing though.
Can you heat a hozel to get it to bend easier?
No don't do that. From what I have read and been told (as I am not a blacksmith), it does not help and you will actually weaken the metal structure making it more brittle.
I have some old paying g5s which I really like with the lofts are not up to modern day standards. I asked my club fitter if he could make them 2° stronger and he said that iron would not do that it would break. Is that true or is it just a possibility?
Pings, especially older Pings are horrible to try and bend. I almost always recommend sending them back to Ping when it comes to bending.
Interesting. I’ve been playing Callaway Pro irons for several years. Last year, after many back and forth emails with my local Club Champion where I was fitted for these irons and new shafts at more than $1,000, I wanted the loft and lies checked. They reluctantly agreed. They checked the lofts and had me swing only a 6 iron, said the lie was ok; never checked any of the other irons and then told me they can’t bend cast clubs!
After spending that much, if they weren't willing to adjust, they should have paid to send them to Callaway.
@@EFGMC needless to say, but I won’t be going to Club Champion for my next fitting. I’ll be trying True Spec or Cool Clubs which are close by. Customer service counts!
@@barrycohen9430 I've seen some questionable fittings come out of True Spec. They seem to use all the same tricks that Club Champion employs.
Heard of fewer Cool Clubs fittings, but they seem better at least from what I've heard.
Can you bend the lie of hybrids (taylormade RBZ)?
I've never tried personally. Could probably get a degree or so out of it but can't be sure.
I was told I could not get my cast irons loft adjusted... Was I lied too by pga golf superstore?
Most cast clubs can be bent however the amount can vary greatly from model to model. Often the big stores like that don't want to run the risk of some novice snapping one of your irons so they just say no.
@@EFGMC I was only wanting to bend a few irons a couple degrees stronger, my sw 4 degrees weaker, pw 4-5 degrees stronger
@@vharrald 4 or 5 degrees is going to make any club builder flinch. I would never promise I could get that, would just have to try and see what the club gives me.
@@EFGMC ok, thank you
how accurate are scoring lines as far as being parallel to the sole of the club? I swear I've had some clubs where the scoring lines aren't quite level with the sole, maybe I'm crazy though
It can happen, but I would say most are going to be very close. If you have a level and you know your bending rig is level, you could always double check.
Was looking to get a nicer set of clubs. I have a set from when I was like 17 and now im 23. I used to play baseball so my mechanics are pretty good and I can swing it pretty good and I make solid contact. Wanted to know if there are some good clubs that will give me more reason to go out and play. I dont need a pro set but id like a nice set.
Ive been looking at the Cobra steel set and the Strata Callaway set but I am worried with how fast I swing the club that the shaft on the Stratas might not hold up.
The starter sets in general will not be as durable as more expensive clubs that you buy not as a complete set. I think it's reasonable to believe the shafts in the Stratas may not hold up well over time.
If you are trying to keep it within a reasonable budget I would be looking at couple year old models or used clubs. Cobra in general sees a pretty good price drop when they move onto a new model. Callaway has a pre-owned site where you can get used, and like new equipment at really good prices depending on sales. I buy a good bit from that site and am always impressed with the condition of the clubs.
@@EFGMC thanks a ton I appreciate the feedback.
Very cool video! I had cast irons (Rogue Xs) that were 2 degrees weak when I bought them used. I had the golf store bend them to standard. After a few weeks I noticed that I was suddenly hitting my irons much shorter and I went back to the golf store and had them checked and they told me they had returned to their previous lofts. Is it true that cast irons will do that?
A lot depends on what your idea of much shorter is. There is an easy way to determine if that golf store was being honest with you. Have the clubs measured at another golf store.
@@davidwilson2657 good suggestion, but too late, I got fed up with those irons and got Apex CF 19s, which I love.
No way cast irons could had been delofted in few weeks
@@ammartinezguzman Much more likely to happen with forged clubs, and still very hard to believe. And even harder to believe that every club would be altered in the same way.
What is the typical fee to have a club bent?? Just bought the Mizuno MP20 HMB's and want them bent a bit flat..
Probably around $5 per club most places.
What about spinning clubs all shaft hero
What about spinning shaft bbe
What about spinning shaft befotr installation
Dude I've been bending for a decade, I use Mitchell benders not the junk from GW you have. I've never had a club move in the vise, never. Think you're going way over board on this and, I would recommend buying Mitchell benders if this club moving in the vise happens to you as many times as you said.
Dude. I've seen it happen and heard plenty of people talk about heads moving back after bending (on a Mitchell). Sounds like you have a vested interest in Mitchell. They are solid, but anyone who thinks the tool is more important than the hands holding it, is wrong!
I have tommy armor Ti 100 titanium clubs can they be bent?
First guess would be minimally at best, but I've never bent them before so I can't be sure.
OK, I'm a bit late but to kill a good Mizuno could get you indicted. Well, shooting it dead would have been alright of course in the US of A but bending its daylight out is not humane and that's a nono. Regards !
I tried to get a club maker to supply a 64o lob wedge (forged) with a70o lie angle from about 64o. Said he wouldn’t go more than 3o as it would effect bounce. Would you agree.
Lie angle has zero effect on bounce. Loft changes will change the bounce an equal amount so if you add loft, you add the same number of bounce in degrees.
@@EFGMC Thank you. I thought as much but couldn’t think of anyone to confirm until I came across your channel.
What about loft? Looking to get a set of Mizuno MP-14's and they are really weak loft. PW is 50°.
You can get 3-4 degrees no problem with Mizuno. Be aware that strengthening loft will increase offset and lower bounce.
@@EFGMC Thanks, I was aware of the bounce, but the offset.
what about bending beryllium ping eye2 heads for loft can you bend a head 4* strong on any club 5 through sw
Old Pings are notoriously difficult to bend. Don't think you could ever get more than 1 degree out of them if that. I would contact Ping to see if they would do it. That being said, I would not recommend bending those clubs 4 degrees stronger as you will remove all the bounce built into them.
Don't try to bend the melonite coated clubs(Cleveland wedges). They break quickly.
I just adjusted my cleveland zipcore wedges 4 degrees upright no problem.
After I had lie angle adjustment at shop for my forged iron, all my irons got little ding mark right above iron number on the iron sole. Is it normal??
Yes. Soft irons will often get slight indentations from where the bending machine contact points sit (usually 2 marks). I know some people will try and use thin pieces of brass or similar to minimize this but I personally don't. Those marks don't change anything.
@@EFGMC thank you so much !! Since it is a brand new pxg iron, it hurts my feelings everytime I look at the iron T.T.
So did you just prove " Nothing feels like a Mizuno", ........when it breaks
It was a much more pleasant experience vs the cast head.
What about cast irons
What if the cast was heated while bending, thus getting more lie on the club?
Not sure if heating would yield better results. Might be one to try in the future.
Hold up- can you bend a forged 4 iron @ 20.5° to a 3 iron @ 18.5/19° ?
For sure. You do want to be aware that you are reducing bounce and increasing offset, just fyi.
@@EFGMC Thanks awesome. Now I got a use for my owl Speedblade 4 iron
Why didn't you do this experiment with changing the lofts..?
You probably would not want to bend loft more than 3 degrees so that should not be an issue. Changing loft brings in other variables when adjusting.
@@EFGMC oh, what about a left handed Taylormade adapter in a right handed head. Do the numbers reverse.?
@@EFGMC thank you for the reply
@@cornpop9045 lofts reverse. Lie change stays same.
What brand of machine is that?
Golf Mechanix
YOu should put your Patreon and socials in the description of each video. I can't find your Patreon.
Thanks. I will be adding that into the description of all videos from the past and of course mention in all going forward.
patreon.com/AJGolf
hI
Can i bent Titleist TM-B 718( Cast Iron 17-3ss)?
Should be able to get a little I think.
Nothing feels like a Mizuno... even when it breaks.
No heat?! Heat it with a torch? 🔥
No, don't ever do that.
would tempering the hosel help
Maybe. That's above my pay grade. Would need an engineer or blacksmith to help with that answer. My guess is not enough to make it worth the effort though.
Will Titleist DCI 990's bend?
They should a little, but it's been a long time since I've done any work on a set of those.
If you bend a cast club will it eventually bend back on its own?
No. This is an idea that floats around but is not accurate. A club can bend from being used repeatedly although this is more often the case with softer forged clubs.
The more likely senecio with cast clubs, is the head moves in the bending jig during the process without the individual noticing. They measure it and see it as bent, but it in fact is just sitting crooked in the clamp.
@@EFGMC Thanks. In your experience are there certain cast clubs that you shouldn't even try to bend?
@@hbyrdut Ping