Actually, for anyone that wants their engine to run optimally in it’s current condition, it’s the best way to get good results! Well done and Extremely useful info. Power timing by ear is a dying art.
Learned this on the fly while driving our old (read: beater) dodge motorhome, doghouse off, adjusting carb and loosening and moving distributor to get her just right. After that trip it's honestly never ran better and starts right up as soon as that key turns.
Go ahead and do that to a 10.1 compression engine with steel heads , broken ring lands, busted piston rings. If you power time a 7.5 or 8.1 compression engine..go for it..that's fine, I did it to my pinto and ran better. I did that to a 350 with 10.5 compression and destroyed the engine
Don’t care what anyone says I been doing this since I was a 15 year old shade tree mechanic in the back yard. Taught this by an old guy who did exactly this. As always your full of great advice Tony
@@umakemerandy3669 new engines have more sensors. and you can put a lot f those sensor on older engine like an o2 sensor in your headers to tune it. you can put an electronic distributor in an old engine that works on your mobile device with a timing table. you wanna put a new engine in an old car to give yourself some sort of confidence? go for it. its not really necessary though
19 year old shade tree mechanic here and this is awesome info. I was doing this as well on my truck without realizing it. No timing light just feeling the engine every little nudge. I almost had it right but would stumble over 60 mph. This the exact video I needed to see appreciate the knowledge.
Tony, I wanna thank you for what you do here on RUclips. There are so many young guys like myself (22) that are dying to get into the hobby but don’t know where to find guidance. You present information in a way that is easy for the next generation to digest. You gave me the confidence to buy a daily project and start tinkering. My ‘62 Fairlane and I salute you. -J
I've learned this when I was growing up in a old beat up fked up dodge 440 V8 engine motorhome that passed down to me from my uncle . My Next door ( another motorhome trailer trash ...) Was an Ex-VietnamVet and taught me the same thing ... I still remember that day ...it was Summer of '86... Long long time ago ... With interior hood out with cooling fan air in my air climbing up the hill listening ping from the engines ...one hand on a steering wheel. Peeking out my one eye on a street . Other hand is reaching and turning distributors ... Very Dangerous but it was fun .... Thank you for reminding me this... Remembering that time is priceless for me .
hahaha oh uncle Tony! you don't need a 20min video to say ... advance the timing until it pings then back it off slightly until the pinging stops, which is primarily what EFI systems do that incorporate a knock sensor. I've been a mechanic for 35 years and my business partner has been in the game for 60 years and this is how it's ALWAYS traditionally been done... love you Tony! your so passionate about what you do as am I with my British cars (or as we say here in Australia "pommy cars") keep up the good work!
Fucking bad ass! When I was a little kid my best friend had an uncle Tony. We used to open the hood on his Nova and check the oil and air filter just because we thought it was cool. That was in the 1970's. I started getting paid to work on cars in a shop when I was 15 and that was in 1988. With 34 years of experience as a mechanic I would absolutely agree with you that is the best way to put a little more life back into a tired engine. Now back to my big project.... Gotta put a rear end in a recliner! Great video man. Thanks, Chris Lake
Good job U Tony, you explained the reason why it works and helped a lot of younger motorheads understand. Now they'll be able to feel the difference and get some good performance out of their project cars. It's important to help the younger guys keep the classics on the road.
Sorry..meant this to be int he main comments section..but agree with your point about passing this valuable information to younger petrol heads like me 🙂
Wow, thank you! Finally someone made a video explaining this. An old guy that taught this to me called it "torque timing". We used to time our old derby cars with the engine at around 2500 rpm or so, under load (in gear) and would advance the timing just till it pings and knock it back a smidge. Then shut it off and see if it starts fine, if so and all is good. Adjust as necessary. Been working on old cars since the early 80's and have had people call me crazy, but they can't seem to understand why it worked...
I love this channel. So much extremely important knowledge and information. As a 33yo, learning these tips from the older guys allows me to keep the knowledge alive for the future. Unfortunately most new mechanics these days only know how to plug into the diagnostic port and do exactly what the computer says. These old hot rodding tips are becoming a lost art, but extremely valuable to those that need them.
I dont understand using a timing light as every engine is slightly different and you have to tweak anyways. You essentially do the same as this but with a fancy strobe light.
Thanks Tony ive been having a hell of a time tuning this 5.7 sbc with the thumper cam and followed this video to the tee keep giving it a little nudge then doing a burnout in my driveway to check for spark knock and i got it about perfect after the 3rd nudge I gotta say shes running hot now! A lot of your vidoes have helped me along my way and I truly appreciate what your doing.
Been waiting all day for this video. I had reached the end of the internet this morning after my discovery of UTG 3 weeks ago. A 3 week binge had left me feeling a bit rudder-less with nothing left to watch on the entire net. Also, in a "totally unrelated" chain of events, these last 3 weeks have seen me begin working on my 20 year-old stash of disassembled engines.
Great info as usual! I'm a machinist and its the same thing. I listen to the tool as its running and the pitch of the sound being created. Then adjust the speed and feed to get a "Happy" cutting sound. You can tell after awhile of running cutting machines, what a good sound is, and when a tool needs to be replaced by the sound.
During the early 80's at my 1st real job as a mechanic, I learned how to power time using the dyno at Andy Granatelli's Tune up Masters. One of many skills taught there I still use
I learned to work on cars back in the 80s from a guy who was in his 50s at that time. You remind me so much of him! I still do these little tricks tuning older carbureted engines to this day.
Awesome advice! I've been struggling so hard to figure out what the problem was with my old engine. I was using the factory timing specs for a new engine the whole time. It was so far off that I would have never figured it out if I had not found your video. I am so glad that you explained the cause and effect. I had to advance my distributor shaft 7 "nudges"! Runs like a champ now! I had almost given up on it. Thank you.
Older motors for cruising or transportation (not performance motors) I use a vacuum guage. Time it to the best intake vacuum and they turn over and run great
I was going to say the vacuum gauge trick is a pretty consistent method to get the best results on older, high mileage engines, even works well on fresh, tight older engines, good to see others sharing this dying knowledge, 👍🤔😁
@@paulhare662 engine in heavey solitation,,, can detonate and you cant be on the engine to ear it... one thinh is idel another is cimibing with heavy weight it will detonate as hell and you can even lsiten to it.
@@termonostrumanwhen the timing is Just right, more of the mixture burns at the right time and is ejected from the engine more completely, that way there is less pressure in the cylinders to begin with therefore they generate more vacuum as the piston comes down, therefore the cylinder is filled more completely.
I think you just described my 1987 Dodge D150 with the 318 4 barrel engine. It has 186000 miles on it without a teardown. I has been completely desmogged and is now equipped with an Eddy 600 and a HEI ignition. The initial timing is still set at the factory specs. After watching this video, I'm sure I can make my engine run a lot burner. Thanks Tony
This is certainly the video I've been looking for. Just bought a '79 F150 with a 72-73 Windsor under the hood. No idea how many miles are on the engine but having trouble with consistent idling. Fixed PCV hose leak, much better but still not right. Put a vacuum gauge on the intake port and reads around 15 (gauge says "late ign timing"). This will help me a ton. Thanks
Love this episode Uncle Tony. This is where the majority of old cars live. The stock drivers from the Muscle car era. From 6 cylinders and 2 barrel V-8's to the unrestored big block dual carb Super cars. You can also do the "Fastest Idle Speed" and back it down just enough to hear the engine begin to labor for a good starting point.
So funny what you said about the type of comments you would get😂😅😂 I've only ever used a light to get the engine running. After that, turn, listen, drive, repeat. Works every time! Check the plugs for lean condition and manage fuel accordingly. Great video, man!❤
Thank you Tony there's not many people out there like you I love the channel cause you keep it simple on a budget the way I grew up and Then a wrench Turner for 25 years I'm 40 Now I was blessed to learn some things from some guys that are either dead or retired now Sometimes you're ear and you're right foot are your best tools
you're ear = you are ear. I think you mean your ear. Thank you Tony. There's not many people out there like you. I love the channel 'cause you keep it simple, on a budget, the way I grew up and then a wrench turner for 25 years. I'm 40 now. I was blessed to learn some things from guys that are either dead or retired now. Sometimes your ear and your right foot are your best tools.
I have done this my whole life and 60 yrs old. A strong idle timing wise, then adjust on carb. Starts perfect and no bog, full rpm's no ping. Never used a light or dwell. 20k match pack and never an issue. New chains or beat this works
Yes, setting the timing by feel works well, you can feel the engine pep up even when idling as you advance the timing, if you go to far it will start to kick. To learn this, start with an engine at operating temperature then move the Distributor to retard the timing and then start advancing it, you will hear and feel the difference, that's a good way to start learning this.
Just bought a rotating 383 marine assembly. I have the benefit of working for a guy who has been engrossed in pre-EFI for years. He managed to time my motor by feel for me. You're a dying breed and I appreciate your knowledge. Hopefully this info lasts for years.
I'm 58 and I tuned by ear like this back in the day too. Always had my car running top notch compared to a lot of the other guys running around. I learned all of this when I was 14-16 years old from my dad and other older mechanics around the shop.
I'm 52, and I learned this at 9 years old, hanging out with my dad's father, brother, and some of my neighbors who owned car shops! I literally just did this Sunday when pulling out my truck for the summer!
The old Toyota 4-cylinders had a vernier device built into the base of the distributor for this very purpose. You could turn a knob and get a very precise bump in timing. It worked great.
You know the best thing about this? This is the knowledge we used to pass down from friend to friend. You could never learn this kind of stuff in magazines.
Here's another thing on older GM engines, a lot of times we would do this, get the engine in optimal running condition and suddenly it would be hard to start. It would be "hitting half licks" like you went too far on advance but ran great once started. We would usually find that a low torque starter was installed causing the issue rather than the timing! People wouldn't pay attention when buying a replacement starter and get a cheap low torque given to them (this was especially evident when buying rebuilt starters), they would work fine for a while then the starting issues would begin and first thing they did was retarded the timing to get it to start ! Then they would be out every weekend trying to get their engines to run right only to end up hard starting, no telling how many points, condensers, coils, and batteries were bought because of this! LOL! Moral of the story is on older GM' s check that starter and get a good high torque on there first thing!
People pay little attention to starters. Old Mopars burn up their starters. They still turn the engine but way....way too slow. Can't tell you how often I told people you need a starter..."But it's working." "No, it is turning but it is not working."
Very true. I got sick and tired of going through the orange chicken lo-mein specials from AutoZone, so I spent more on a USA-made PowerMaster gear reduction unit. Never had a problem again.
OEM starters were never really tknown for torque. And... [extreme] heat does funny things to field coil strength [field strength drifts], and that causes torque to drop. What we can do is pay attention to maintenance: drop the starter every two years for a clean and inspect. Remove all carbon dust from brush wear with compressed air [and don't breath that in]. A collection of this plus moisture allows tracking - commutator bars are becoming partially shorted. After that, insulators between bars should not be level with bars - a small slot should exist. A small slotted screwdriver [hardened tip] that has tip gound dead flat/no deburring works reasonably well to rake slots clean. If brushes are found with 1/3 wear or more replace them. If you find copper drag [evidenced by overhangs on trailing edges] that is cause for spring replacement - they are weak. Pro-tip: do NOT douse a commutator with lectra clean: it can wash carbon under mica and eventually cause a flashover. Instead, spray a little bit on a clean rag and wipe clean prior to reassembling. Last but not least: oil kills brushes - fast. Identify the source and fix it. That does not mean getting rid of oil impregnated leather or felt bushings some starrters are made with - they need them.
I am 63 and totally do what you say about how you can hear the engine and know what is going on. I have a 24 year old with me in my shop and he is amazed at my ear for what to do. Great video.
This is exactly the timing video Ive been needing. Next question though, can you do a video on spark knock? As in, would you force an engine to preignite and show us what spark knock actually sounds like? Ive watched every video I can find and none are very good at reproducing the sound or defining the sound itself.
Wow! This clip is a GOLDEN APPLE for me! I'm turning 50 this month, I purchased a replacement Datsun 1970 240z for the one that got wrecked when I was 29. EVERYTHING under the hood was the wrong part from ignition to mechanical fuel pump, even the SU carbs needed rebuilding. I slapped those in yesterday and tomorrow I'm ready to check/verify the timing. Last time I turned it over I recognized the carbs were shot and it ran lumpy and rich. I wouldn't be surprised if the timing was screwy as well. Original engine... THANKS FOR THE GUIDANCE ON THIS! I'll use my timing light to get in the ballpark and run old school from there!
Growing up in the 80's and messing with old cars that is the way we did it. Did not have timing light to years later. Brings back good memories. Thanks Tony!
Also, if the engine becomes too hard to crank when hot, you've gone too far. Back off the timing a few degrees to find just the sweet spot between performance and easy start. Been doing this my entire life for street driving. Tony's method going up a hill works too, but is not always practical if you live in the city. Thank you UT for all the good tips you keep bringing to everyone.
Also, be prepared to adjust slightly for different seasons and seasonal fuel blends. I find that I may need to retard timing a bit during the hot summer, then bump forward when cooler.
@@schlomoshekelstein908 SURE AND the most aprt of detonation you canot lsiten,,, so the explanaton of uncle is not ablsolutly correct i thingk is information jsut for beginners. there are many factors thayt amke engine detoante and you dont lsiten if your in the limit,,, speciall if is a vintage,, cause it cant variate timing automatically unless you put there a good detector and make it retard with anotehr ignition
You gave me inspiration, just came back in, I was over advanced, listened real good, and I heard everything quiet down and saw it smooth out, and my miss is gone, Hadleigh louyaaa !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Great video!!!!!!!!!!
Mr Tony I just want to say thank you. Im 38 yrs old and barely got into mechanics. I bought a 66 mustang for my birthday 289 engine. I have been studying your videos and the content is super helpful. Keep up the good work. God bless
Right on man! That is the first time I have ever heard someone explain this ever, and it is amazingly accurate and easy to understand....but only to those people who want to understand. If they do not get what you are sharing it is simply because they never wanted to in the first place. I understand why that wasso difficult to share, or at least part of the reason, is due to the growing number of self titled mechanical geniuses, that just wait for a video to share their criticisms. I can only imagine, how frustrating that would be. I am damn glad that you look past them and keep sharing all that you do! Years ago, a fella was damn lucky to find ANYONE that was even willing to share any little tips or secrets...and even more miraculous, that one could find someone with CREDIBLE, tips and secrets. I really enjoy keeping up with your vids and look forward to them everyday!
Agree with everything you said. Hearing the engine is so important. I typically turn the distributor until engine runs best. Revs will be up quite a bit by then and I then set Revs back to 800rpm. Then repeat the same - nudge distributor, then adjust idle rpm again. Continue doing this until it idles like a swiss watch...
My '67 Cougar with a 302 was very sluggish and had a stumble occasionally at idle so I tried this. The results were remarkable! I'm in New Mexico with mile high altitude so can run more timing than cars at lower levels so had it set at 12 degrees rather than the 6 or so it would need at sea level. When I kicked it up to around 15-18 degrees the sluggishness and stumble went away. Runs so much better! Going to play with it some more, and check the total advance to try to get the best possible performance. Thanks UT!
MAXIMUS TONYUS! Thanks for these kind of engine metaphysics documentaries. It help's so much when your a classic car owner and your waiting for that specific detail that make's me and others whats not explicable in a book. Books shows specs, Tony shows reality !
“Keep nuudging it” 😂 UTG, you got brilliance sir. My first vehicle had a Buick 225. If I wanted to stay mobile I had to work on it. Had nobody to give me advice but the Hayes and Chiltons manuals. I remember setting the timing and figuring I’d done something wrong because the books had a value but the thing ran so much better set way in advance. This was basically your “nuudge” principle.
Hey Tony, Tim here, GREAT vid on timing for a Joe shoe, older motor, I've used your EXACT method countless times, and found that sweet spot, and the customers are estatic......I agree with the one comment, it's a dying art!!......I hear ALL you described, and know an ICE enuf to know where I need to tweak it.......NOT hooking it up to a scanner!!!!......where I work, NO SCANNER AVAIL!!.....(we only work on shit that has a carb and distrib.....if it's got a computer, we don't touch it).........it was AWESOME to have you explain our feel so well!!.....BOY I'm glad I subscribed so long ago!!...TY sir!!....PEACE my brother!!
Always the best practical advice and tips. So "Real World" for everyday motoring. It's advice like this that can help amateurs/ newbies/ those who have frustration with their project cars to get back in the saddle and keep them going
UK London "Have a little 1018 stroker Ford Prefect don't run right but, just left my timing kit in the box and adjusted the dizzy your way and "Yaaaay..! Now runs like a dream... BIG thanks UTG 👍
This was a great video it explains it in layman's terms. It's about using the force Luke being in the zone. Massaging that little knot in your motor's back and getting a happy ending out of it. The motor love you long time. A touch that comes with experience.
Yeah I remember those good ole days when car engines had distributors. I used to do this to my 82 Z28 , my friends 74 Monte Carlo and another friends maverick with a 302. They couldn’t believe I could do this by EAR. Cars ran like a top. Great info UTG
Back in the late 70s I worked for a Los Angeles based chain of tune up shops. That's all they did. They had dynamometer that we ran the cars on and loaded them down. We did carbon treatments and power tuning and if you did it right your timing came in within a degree or two. It was a nice system.
I've been watching your stuff on and off for a few years. I have a classic Australian car from 1976, and this advice was spot-on. I got rid of an annoying stumble and the car now pulls like a mule. Thank you. I've liked and subscribed!
I’ve been dealing with the “I’ve been doing this for 30yrs” parts swappers for 15 years. I always tell them….”I’ve been cooking food for 50 years, but I’m not chef boyardee ! Just because you’ve got experience with something, doesn’t make you an expert. Never pass up the chance to learn something new! I appreciate Tony for his abilities and his honesty. He never claims to be an expert or that he’s seen it all or done it all. The smartest people are the ones who know that there’s always more than one way to “skin a cat”.
Uncle Tony I appreciate the wisdom! My 69’ Chevy C10 with brand new motor gave out a year later. No longer turned over after 1,000 miles. I was ready to rip it out and put an LS but I remembered ur channel first recommendation was ur carburetor video my damn electric chock module fried. I screwed with timing thinking it was that but no ur video Came through for me big time! Saved me 3K from the mobile mechanic coming this Tuesday! Much love Tony!
My father showed me how to power time a car. First one was my V8 Volvo project, has an 84 318 engine out of an RV. Power timing that engine brought it to life. Ever since then I power time EVERYTHING I own unless its a brand new rebuilt engine. A few weeks ago I bought a 51 Chrysler Windsor DeLuxe and power timing that flat head 6 gave it so much more life back.
Been timing like this for years but never knew if I was doing it right. Just kept turning it till,like you said, I didn't hear that spark knocking and my chevys have always run good
Excellent info Unk!! It's been a lot of years since I've had a distributor. My hi-milage engine seems to run better when I take my hearing aids out. I like to call it "ostrich tuning". Over time it's continued to get more effective
We're about the same age and I love listening to you. I also grew up working on those motors.. There's a lot of places that don't have hills and what I've learned is to just hold your foot on the brake and give it a little throttle in gear and you can achieve the same thing as looking for a hill and you don't have to go anywhere.
Great video!! In the mid 80s it was common to see on "older" cars where mechanics would wright the timing they set it at in grease pencil on the core support. Many times the number was no where near the stock spec.
I know I’m late to this party but Uncle Tony, you are a genius and fixed the problem for my Firechicken. I literally just got back from ripping up and down the highways on a long test drive. Thank you!
Good video! I did this to my old dodge truck with a high mileage 360 in it. I set the timing to factory spec and it ran but just not like it should. Advanced the timing more and it ran even better. 👍🏻
You reminded me of when I was young and I used to put new shocks in peoples cars . They used to come back and tell me their car felt like it was new again and they were always very happy with the way their car drove .
Thank you, Tony! I learned of this 'Power Timing" by having a piston be burnt through and not listening to the sound or the feel. It is like trying to explain how much "riding the clutch" you need to do to have a good launch from the line. It does get complicated today because so much is 'by wire' instead of actual cable, bearing, etc. where the feel will tell you what is going on. I was fortunate to have someone teach me as I grew up. Just a saying, "DIRT is for racing, asphalt is for getting there!"
96 f150 350,000 kms... a nudge and a half seemed to be the trick... thanks Tony helped me tow my tools loaded to the nuts across Canada... much happier trip than if I left it where it was... even with the efi.. same basic principal applies... you the man
You sir are 100% correct. I have tuned hundreds of engines and hard knocks wasn't school, it was way too much advance. And starter "wa wa",,,, your "nudge" is too big of one. I also see your old school kindness. WELL DONE!!
Thanks Tony, I’ve never tried the exact method you explained but maybe something similar. My method was to advance the timing until it started to miss at highway cruising speed and then back off a degree or two at a time until the engine ran smoothly at cruise.
I lived in foothills and had a timing light but high mileage motor! Tony’s right in getting a feel! I’d get it idling good but under load( going uphill) it was a turd again! Being it was an automatic trans, I would run it up against an oak tree and leave it in drive! I’d adjust it revved up till smooth running and tighten it down! Worked for me!
Cars today use a knock sensor. The computer advances the timing till it hears a knock. Then the computer retards the timing. This way it does it all the time. Keeps engine running at peak power and this means better fuel mileage. Great show Tony. 👍
@@fastinradfordable Never having knock leaves performance on the table. That's why Tony's tuning style is to go all the way to knock...then back it off a noodge so the engine doesn't throw a leg out of bed. The computer controlled variety does exactly the same thing, only it does it over and over, taking into account variations in fuel quality, engine load, engine temperature, intake air temp, etc...constantly trying to get right up against the edge of knock without actually doing damage...so you always get the maximum performance that's available. Yeah, you can get no knock in either case...but that's not how to tune for performance.
My uncle showed me this when i was 13 (30yearsago) and man this is only the second time i've heard it but have always done it, Love the videos , and it's good to see someone willing to share oldschool knowhow because it works and applies to alot of stuff
Absolutely correct there, Tony. That's the way I've been doing it and will continue to do so. haven't had any problems from customers thus far. All happy. Old skool art never dies.
I used to put the car against a tree in gear emergency break on. Then raise the rpm a smidgen the adjust timing listening for knock , valve noise and watch engine shake. Always seemed to work, maybe not the safest way. Its what the old man used to do.
Was troubleshooting a stumble on a '78 360 D200, normal initial advance running great at idle. Put it under load and it bogs or dies. I watch this video and lo and behold Uncle Tony calls out the issue! Slop in the timing due to engine age was not something I had accounted for. Thank you as always for the wealth of old school knowledge!
Us mortals use a timing light to do what you’re saying. It takes forever compared to your Jedi ways, but I’ve added a degree here and there until it starts to ping, then back it off 1-2. It worked…well it didn’t explode
You explained perfectly to a T the ticking sound that I was experiencing after I timed my 69 Cadillac with a timing light. Everyone I asked about it just told me it's timing with no ways to elaborate. Going to try this tomorrow.
Good explanation of something this is learned from experience. A suggestion would be to include videos of examples of what you are trying to describe so people can actually hear engines/exhaust in different timing settings.
its a hard thing to discribe when people not in tune with details of sound, is acquired over time you get in tune with the sounds of exhaust notes other sense is smell of exhaust or the color inside of pipe, says alot of things to people in tune of an engine as to spark plugs
I don't have much Mopar experience but I remember helping a friend with his wife's Chrysler (circa early eighty's) He had changed the distributor and it idled ok but had no acceleration power. After a lot of head scratching and playing with timing I found the 318 LA had a CCW B/RB distributor and was retarding the timing with speed. Keep Up the Good Work Tony !
I can't tell you how many times I've had to tell very Tech savvy new generation mechanics to put the timing light down hold the throttle open and start turning Distributor back-and-forth till it sounds good
I learned how to rebuild carburetors 30 years ago and im still learning something new. I know what he saying. It's a feeling you can't explain but just know when its right. Great 411.
been using pretty much the same method since i was a kid the only difference i usually do it with the engine running i grab the throttle linkage and run the motor up to about 2000 revs and hold it there while moving the dissy you easily hear a sweet spot. then go up up hill under load just like Tony said. i'd like a dollar for every car car that i did this to to get running right after somebody had tuned it by the book with a timing light. the usual responce was what the hell did you do to my car its never ran this good before. a lot of these cars were quite new at the time so its not just old sloppy timing chains and worn gears but a combo of "not quite right manufacturing tolerences" as well as outer harmonic balancer rings that had slipped or were made wrong in the first place that add up to quite a lot of degrees out in some of the cars from that era. the funny thing was as soon as you hit the key if it wound over too fast before starting you knew it was retarded. over heating was another common symtom with these cars as well. thanks Tony for another outstanding video.
SPOT ON. I have been tuning by ear for forty years. I used to bend my own advance springs in the distributor, but that was often a bad idea. I can still tune most older engines so that they fire when you breath on the key. Only way to get there is experience.
Haha some of that emissions stuff came in so late ,you could almost get away with removing 1 of 2 springs. That was too much , but not by alot if that makes sense.
Tony are u recycling videos ? Lol…… I saw this live likely …… appreciate these lessons … loved watching you help that kid with the caddy , and u were enjoying the simple , principles to get the idle better and vacuum etc
yesterday i was setting time on my 1974 smallblock chevy nova. spec inside the engine compartment called for 0 degree before top dead center. it "sounded" like crap until i rolled it to about 8 degrees btdc. i didnt know what i was doing till i saw this today. spot on
Gotta road tune. Slight uphill grade, 3/4 throttle, no secondaries. Barely audible ping at 50 mph... not a flamenco dancer on the hood. You're welcome kids.
I did this on the 55. Actually I've done this on most all my cars. On the 84 I was able to actually watch knock counts too. On that car, what felt best actually resulted in the timing being retarded a degree or two by the knock module... So I hooked up a light and backed it off until it stopped and it's been there since lol.
Actually, for anyone that wants their engine to run optimally in it’s current condition, it’s the best way to get good results! Well done and Extremely useful info. Power timing by ear is a dying art.
Learned this on the fly while driving our old (read: beater) dodge motorhome, doghouse off, adjusting carb and loosening and moving distributor to get her just right. After that trip it's honestly never ran better and starts right up as soon as that key turns.
Here we go!
In today's day and age of record high gas prices bump that timing a " nuuddga" and get better mileage.
This brought back so many memories. Tuning the classics of the 1950's and 1960's for the older folks.
Go ahead and do that to a 10.1 compression engine with steel heads , broken ring lands, busted piston rings. If you power time a 7.5 or 8.1 compression engine..go for it..that's fine, I did it to my pinto and ran better. I did that to a 350 with 10.5 compression and destroyed the engine
Don’t care what anyone says I been doing this since I was a 15 year old shade tree mechanic in the back yard. Taught this by an old guy who did exactly this. As always your full of great advice Tony
That vacuum advance canister points towards advanced is the best tip ever.
Haha I used to know that one ,but I haven't played around with enough distributors in quite a few years. Always cool to relearn something 😅
Old classic engines are like alive, it's an organ to tune carefully. One of the reason I like old cars. Thanks Tony !
Yes! LS has no soul.
Lol you like old cars because its alive and an organ to tune carefully when new engines are equally alive and have more parts to tune.
no one in government want you to have old junk,,
they make laws to dificult your life until you really need to give up.
can you tune it correctly???
@@umakemerandy3669 new engines have more sensors. and you can put a lot f those sensor on older engine like an o2 sensor in your headers to tune it. you can put an electronic distributor in an old engine that works on your mobile device with a timing table.
you wanna put a new engine in an old car to give yourself some sort of confidence? go for it. its not really necessary though
19 year old shade tree mechanic here and this is awesome info. I was doing this as well on my truck without realizing it. No timing light just feeling the engine every little nudge. I almost had it right but would stumble over 60 mph. This the exact video I needed to see appreciate the knowledge.
Tony,
I wanna thank you for what you do here on RUclips. There are so many young guys like myself (22) that are dying to get into the hobby but don’t know where to find guidance. You present information in a way that is easy for the next generation to digest. You gave me the confidence to buy a daily project and start tinkering.
My ‘62 Fairlane and I salute you.
-J
I've learned this when I was growing up in a old beat up fked up dodge 440 V8 engine motorhome that passed down to me from my uncle . My Next door ( another motorhome trailer trash ...) Was an Ex-VietnamVet and taught me the same thing ... I still remember that day ...it was Summer of '86... Long long time ago ... With interior hood out with cooling fan air in my air climbing up the hill listening ping from the engines ...one hand on a steering wheel. Peeking out my one eye on a street . Other hand is reaching and turning distributors ... Very Dangerous but it was fun ....
Thank you for reminding me this... Remembering that time is priceless for me .
hahaha oh uncle Tony! you don't need a 20min video to say ... advance the timing until it pings then back it off slightly until the pinging stops, which is primarily what EFI systems do that incorporate a knock sensor. I've been a mechanic for 35 years and my business partner has been in the game for 60 years and this is how it's ALWAYS traditionally been done... love you Tony! your so passionate about what you do as am I with my British cars (or as we say here in Australia "pommy cars") keep up the good work!
Fucking bad ass! When I was a little kid my best friend had an uncle Tony. We used to open the hood on his Nova and check the oil and air filter just because we thought it was cool. That was in the 1970's. I started getting paid to work on cars in a shop when I was 15 and that was in 1988. With 34 years of experience as a mechanic I would absolutely agree with you that is the best way to put a little more life back into a tired engine. Now back to my big project.... Gotta put a rear end in a recliner! Great video man.
Thanks, Chris Lake
Rear end in a recliner 👍😂
Good job U Tony, you explained the reason why it works and helped a lot of younger motorheads understand. Now they'll be able to feel the difference and get some good performance out of their project cars. It's important to help the younger guys keep the classics on the road.
I'm going to need to try this on my 70 firebird... And yes I'm "younger" in my 30s
Sorry..meant this to be int he main comments section..but agree with your point about passing this valuable information to younger petrol heads like me 🙂
Wow, thank you! Finally someone made a video explaining this. An old guy that taught this to me called it "torque timing". We used to time our old derby cars with the engine at around 2500 rpm or so, under load (in gear) and would advance the timing just till it pings and knock it back a smidge. Then shut it off and see if it starts fine, if so and all is good. Adjust as necessary. Been working on old cars since the early 80's and have had people call me crazy, but they can't seem to understand why it worked...
I love this channel. So much extremely important knowledge and information.
As a 33yo, learning these tips from the older guys allows me to keep the knowledge alive for the future.
Unfortunately most new mechanics these days only know how to plug into the diagnostic port and do exactly what the computer says.
These old hot rodding tips are becoming a lost art, but extremely valuable to those that need them.
I dont understand using a timing light as every engine is slightly different and you have to tweak anyways. You essentially do the same as this but with a fancy strobe light.
Thanks Tony ive been having a hell of a time tuning this 5.7 sbc with the thumper cam and followed this video to the tee keep giving it a little nudge then doing a burnout in my driveway to check for spark knock and i got it about perfect after the 3rd nudge I gotta say shes running hot now! A lot of your vidoes have helped me along my way and I truly appreciate what your doing.
Been waiting all day for this video. I had reached the end of the internet this morning after my discovery of UTG 3 weeks ago. A 3 week binge had left me feeling a bit rudder-less with nothing left to watch on the entire net.
Also, in a "totally unrelated" chain of events, these last 3 weeks have seen me begin working on my 20 year-old stash of disassembled engines.
Go work on a car and do uncle tony proud.
Brother man
Great info as usual! I'm a machinist and its the same thing. I listen to the tool as its running and the pitch of the sound being created. Then adjust the speed and feed to get a "Happy" cutting sound. You can tell after awhile of running cutting machines, what a good sound is, and when a tool needs to be replaced by the sound.
Dude! You just made my Nova run a Million times better by following this advice. Love you Uncle Tony!!
During the early 80's at my 1st real job as a mechanic, I learned how to power time using the dyno at Andy Granatelli's Tune up Masters. One of many skills taught there I still use
I learned to work on cars back in the 80s from a guy who was in his 50s at that time. You remind me so much of him! I still do these little tricks tuning older carbureted engines to this day.
Awesome advice! I've been struggling so hard to figure out what the problem was with my old engine. I was using the factory timing specs for a new engine the whole time. It was so far off that I would have never figured it out if I had not found your video. I am so glad that you explained the cause and effect. I had to advance my distributor shaft 7 "nudges"! Runs like a champ now! I had almost given up on it. Thank you.
Older motors for cruising or transportation (not performance motors) I use a vacuum guage. Time it to the best intake vacuum and they turn over and run great
I was going to say the vacuum gauge trick is a pretty consistent method to get the best results on older, high mileage engines, even works well on fresh, tight older engines, good to see others sharing this dying knowledge, 👍🤔😁
A vacuum gauge, a screw driver, a 9/16 wrench and clean ears. A full tune up tool kit.
vacuum for waht, to detect detonation?
@@paulhare662 engine in heavey solitation,,, can detonate and you cant be on the engine to ear it...
one thinh is idel another is cimibing with heavy weight it will detonate as hell and you can even lsiten to it.
@@termonostrumanwhen the timing is Just right, more of the mixture burns at the right time and is ejected from the engine more completely, that way there is less pressure in the cylinders to begin with therefore they generate more vacuum as the piston comes down, therefore the cylinder is filled more completely.
I think you just described my 1987 Dodge D150 with the 318 4 barrel engine. It has 186000 miles on it without a teardown. I has been completely desmogged and is now equipped with an Eddy 600 and a HEI ignition. The initial timing is still set at the factory specs. After watching this video, I'm sure I can make my engine run a lot burner. Thanks Tony
I have an 85 D150 with a 318. Awesome truck.
This is certainly the video I've been looking for. Just bought a '79 F150 with a 72-73 Windsor under the hood. No idea how many miles are on the engine but having trouble with consistent idling. Fixed PCV hose leak, much better but still not right. Put a vacuum gauge on the intake port and reads around 15 (gauge says "late ign timing").
This will help me a ton. Thanks
Love this episode Uncle Tony. This is where the majority of old cars live. The stock drivers from the Muscle car era. From 6 cylinders and 2 barrel V-8's to the unrestored big block dual carb Super cars.
You can also do the "Fastest Idle Speed" and back it down just enough to hear the engine begin to labor for a good starting point.
So funny what you said about the type of comments you would get😂😅😂
I've only ever used a light to get the engine running. After that, turn, listen, drive, repeat. Works every time!
Check the plugs for lean condition and manage fuel accordingly. Great video, man!❤
Thank you Tony there's not many people out there like you I love the channel cause you keep it simple on a budget the way I grew up and Then a wrench Turner for 25 years I'm 40 Now I was blessed to learn some things from some guys that are either dead or retired now Sometimes you're ear and you're right foot are your best tools
M,
When you write, try a period every now and then. More people would stand a chance of understanding what you're trying to say.
you're ear = you are ear.
I think you mean your ear.
Thank you Tony. There's not many people out there like you. I love the channel 'cause you keep it simple, on a budget, the way I grew up and then a wrench turner for 25 years. I'm 40 now. I was blessed to learn some things from guys that are either dead or retired now. Sometimes your ear and your right foot are your best tools.
I have done this my whole life and 60 yrs old. A strong idle timing wise, then adjust on carb. Starts perfect and no bog, full rpm's no ping. Never used a light or dwell. 20k match pack and never an issue. New chains or beat this works
Yes, setting the timing by feel works well, you can feel the engine pep up even when idling as you advance the timing, if you go to far it will start to kick. To learn this, start with an engine at operating temperature then move the Distributor to retard the timing and then start advancing it, you will hear and feel the difference, that's a good way to start learning this.
Just bought a rotating 383 marine assembly. I have the benefit of working for a guy who has been engrossed in pre-EFI for years. He managed to time my motor by feel for me. You're a dying breed and I appreciate your knowledge. Hopefully this info lasts for years.
I'm 58 and I tuned by ear like this back in the day too. Always had my car running top notch compared to a lot of the other guys running around. I learned all of this when I was 14-16 years old from my dad and other older mechanics around the shop.
I'm 52, and I learned this at 9 years old, hanging out with my dad's father, brother, and some of my neighbors who owned car shops! I literally just did this Sunday when pulling out my truck for the summer!
The old Toyota 4-cylinders had a vernier device built into the base of the distributor for this very purpose. You could turn a knob and get a very precise bump in timing. It worked great.
You know the best thing about this? This is the knowledge we used to pass down from friend to friend. You could never learn this kind of stuff in magazines.
Here's another thing on older GM engines, a lot of times we would do this, get the engine in optimal running condition and suddenly it would be hard to start. It would be "hitting half licks" like you went too far on advance but ran great once started. We would usually find that a low torque starter was installed causing the issue rather than the timing! People wouldn't pay attention when buying a replacement starter and get a cheap low torque given to them (this was especially evident when buying rebuilt starters), they would work fine for a while then the starting issues would begin and first thing they did was retarded the timing to get it to start ! Then they would be out every weekend trying to get their engines to run right only to end up hard starting, no telling how many points, condensers, coils, and batteries were bought because of this! LOL!
Moral of the story is on older GM' s check that starter and get a good high torque on there first thing!
People pay little attention to starters. Old Mopars burn up their starters. They still turn the engine but way....way too slow. Can't tell you how often I told people you need a starter..."But it's working." "No, it is turning but it is not working."
Very true. I got sick and tired of going through the orange chicken lo-mein specials from AutoZone, so I spent more on a USA-made PowerMaster gear reduction unit. Never had a problem again.
Our original factory starter always required a very good strong battery to get going until we discovered the missing field coil mounting screw.
Totally right on. Most would then back off the timing till the engine starts with little trouble . This doesn't make power though.
OEM starters were never really tknown for torque. And... [extreme] heat does funny things to field coil strength [field strength drifts], and that causes torque to drop. What we can do is pay attention to maintenance: drop the starter every two years for a clean and inspect. Remove all carbon dust from brush wear with compressed air [and don't breath that in]. A collection of this plus moisture allows tracking - commutator bars are becoming partially shorted. After that, insulators between bars should not be level with bars - a small slot should exist. A small slotted screwdriver [hardened tip] that has tip gound dead flat/no deburring works reasonably well to rake slots clean. If brushes are found with 1/3 wear or more replace them. If you find copper drag [evidenced by overhangs on trailing edges] that is cause for spring replacement - they are weak. Pro-tip: do NOT douse a commutator with lectra clean: it can wash carbon under mica and eventually cause a flashover. Instead, spray a little bit on a clean rag and wipe clean prior to reassembling. Last but not least: oil kills brushes - fast. Identify the source and fix it. That does not mean getting rid of oil impregnated leather or felt bushings some starrters are made with - they need them.
I am 63 and totally do what you say about how you can hear the engine and know what is going on. I have a 24 year old with me in my shop and he is amazed at my ear for what to do. Great video.
This is exactly the timing video Ive been needing. Next question though, can you do a video on spark knock? As in, would you force an engine to preignite and show us what spark knock actually sounds like? Ive watched every video I can find and none are very good at reproducing the sound or defining the sound itself.
Wow! This clip is a GOLDEN APPLE for me! I'm turning 50 this month, I purchased a replacement Datsun 1970 240z for the one that got wrecked when I was 29. EVERYTHING under the hood was the wrong part from ignition to mechanical fuel pump, even the SU carbs needed rebuilding. I slapped those in yesterday and tomorrow I'm ready to check/verify the timing. Last time I turned it over I recognized the carbs were shot and it ran lumpy and rich. I wouldn't be surprised if the timing was screwy as well. Original engine... THANKS FOR THE GUIDANCE ON THIS! I'll use my timing light to get in the ballpark and run old school from there!
Growing up in the 80's and messing with old cars that is the way we did it. Did not have timing light to years later. Brings back good memories. Thanks Tony!
Same here! My neighbor who helped me build my first sbc taught me this. I don't think he even owned a timing light.
Also, if the engine becomes too hard to crank when hot, you've gone too far. Back off the timing a few degrees to find just the sweet spot between performance and easy start. Been doing this my entire life for street driving. Tony's method going up a hill works too, but is not always practical if you live in the city. Thank you UT for all the good tips you keep bringing to everyone.
Also, be prepared to adjust slightly for different seasons and seasonal fuel blends. I find that I may need to retard timing a bit during the hot summer, then bump forward when cooler.
too many variables that's why you have to do it by ear
@@schlomoshekelstein908 SURE AND the most aprt of detonation you canot lsiten,,,
so the explanaton of uncle is not ablsolutly correct i thingk is information jsut for beginners.
there are many factors thayt amke engine detoante and you dont lsiten if your in the limit,,, speciall if is a vintage,, cause it cant variate timing automatically unless you put there a good detector and make it retard with anotehr ignition
I just leave my timing and add mmt to my gas for the 100 degree weather. It does make a bit less power admittedly.
You gave me inspiration, just came back in, I was over advanced, listened real good, and I heard everything quiet down and saw it smooth out, and my miss is gone, Hadleigh louyaaa !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Great video!!!!!!!!!!
I nailed it , sorry lol…. Nudge nudge nudge …… then nudge !!!!!tony u made my life , I figured that out in 1986 on my nova !!!!
Mr Tony I just want to say thank you. Im 38 yrs old and barely got into mechanics. I bought a 66 mustang for my birthday 289 engine. I have been studying your videos and the content is super helpful. Keep up the good work. God bless
Right on man! That is the first time I have ever heard someone explain this ever, and it is amazingly accurate and easy to understand....but only to those people who want to understand. If they do not get what you are sharing it is simply because they never wanted to in the first place. I understand why that wasso difficult to share, or at least part of the reason, is due to the growing number of self titled mechanical geniuses, that just wait for a video to share their criticisms. I can only imagine, how frustrating that would be. I am damn glad that you look past them and keep sharing all that you do! Years ago, a fella was damn lucky to find ANYONE that was even willing to share any little tips or secrets...and even more miraculous, that one could find someone with CREDIBLE, tips and secrets. I really enjoy keeping up with your vids and look forward to them everyday!
I grew up around engines watching my brother. This works perfectly everytime. It does take practice, but you will know when you've nailed it.
Agree with everything you said. Hearing the engine is so important. I typically turn the distributor until engine runs best. Revs will be up quite a bit by then and I then set Revs back to 800rpm. Then repeat the same - nudge distributor, then adjust idle rpm again. Continue doing this until it idles like a swiss watch...
But detoantion occur with other factors, when climbing caryin heavy cargos, temperature outside etcc.
and the main detonation you can not lsiten it
My '67 Cougar with a 302 was very sluggish and had a stumble occasionally at idle so I tried this. The results were remarkable! I'm in New Mexico with mile high altitude so can run more timing than cars at lower levels so had it set at 12 degrees rather than the 6 or so it would need at sea level. When I kicked it up to around 15-18 degrees the sluggishness and stumble went away. Runs so much better! Going to play with it some more, and check the total advance to try to get the best possible performance. Thanks UT!
MAXIMUS TONYUS! Thanks for these kind of engine metaphysics documentaries. It help's so much when your a classic car owner and your waiting for that specific detail that make's me and others whats not explicable in a book. Books shows specs, Tony shows reality !
“Keep nuudging it” 😂 UTG, you got brilliance sir.
My first vehicle had a Buick 225. If I wanted to stay mobile I had to work on it. Had nobody to give me advice but the Hayes and Chiltons manuals. I remember setting the timing and figuring I’d done something wrong because the books had a value but the thing ran so much better set way in advance. This was basically your “nuudge” principle.
Once again.. ol Tony hits it on the head. Reminds me of me and my dad tuning up his 390 fe.
Hey Tony,
Tim here, GREAT vid on timing for a Joe shoe, older motor, I've used your EXACT method countless times, and found that sweet spot, and the customers are estatic......I agree with the one comment, it's a dying art!!......I hear ALL you described, and know an ICE enuf to know where I need to tweak it.......NOT hooking it up to a scanner!!!!......where I work, NO SCANNER AVAIL!!.....(we only work on shit that has a carb and distrib.....if it's got a computer, we don't touch it).........it was AWESOME to have you explain our feel so well!!.....BOY I'm glad I subscribed so long ago!!...TY sir!!....PEACE my brother!!
Always the best practical advice and tips. So "Real World" for everyday motoring. It's advice like this that can help amateurs/ newbies/ those who have frustration with their project cars to get back in the saddle and keep them going
UK London "Have a little 1018 stroker Ford Prefect don't run right but, just left my timing kit in the box and adjusted the dizzy your way and "Yaaaay..! Now runs like a dream...
BIG thanks UTG 👍
This was a great video it explains it in layman's terms. It's about using the force Luke being in the zone. Massaging that little knot in your motor's back and getting a happy ending out of it. The motor love you long time. A touch that comes with experience.
Yeah I remember those good ole days when car engines had distributors.
I used to do this to my
82 Z28 , my friends 74 Monte Carlo and another friends maverick with a 302. They couldn’t believe I could do this by EAR. Cars ran like a top.
Great info UTG
Back in the late 70s I worked for a Los Angeles based chain of tune up shops. That's all they did. They had dynamometer that we ran the cars on and loaded them down. We did carbon treatments and power tuning and if you did it right your timing came in within a degree or two. It was a nice system.
I've been watching your stuff on and off for a few years. I have a classic Australian car from 1976, and this advice was spot-on. I got rid of an annoying stumble and the car now pulls like a mule. Thank you. I've liked and subscribed!
Midway thru video , tony I will say your passion is equal or greater to mine , tom of respect !!!
I’ve been dealing with the “I’ve been doing this for 30yrs” parts swappers for 15 years. I always tell them….”I’ve been cooking food for 50 years, but I’m not chef boyardee ! Just because you’ve got experience with something, doesn’t make you an expert. Never pass up the chance to learn something new! I appreciate Tony for his abilities and his honesty. He never claims to be an expert or that he’s seen it all or done it all. The smartest people are the ones who know that there’s always more than one way to “skin a cat”.
Another thing to consider is that a lot of times the outer ring on the harmonic balancer can slip over time causing the timing marks to be off
Just replace mine. Power steering leaked on rubber ring causing it to slip. Fixed leak so won’t happen again. It was way off.
Uncle Tony I appreciate the wisdom! My 69’ Chevy C10 with brand new motor gave out a year later. No longer turned over after 1,000 miles. I was ready to rip it out and put an LS but I remembered ur channel first recommendation was ur carburetor video my damn electric chock module fried. I screwed with timing thinking it was that but no ur video Came through for me big time! Saved me 3K from the mobile mechanic coming this Tuesday! Much love Tony!
I’ve been a subscriber since the first videos and still have an awesome content, don’t change your style Tony. This is exactly what we want 😎👍
My father showed me how to power time a car. First one was my V8 Volvo project, has an 84 318 engine out of an RV. Power timing that engine brought it to life. Ever since then I power time EVERYTHING I own unless its a brand new rebuilt engine. A few weeks ago I bought a 51 Chrysler Windsor DeLuxe and power timing that flat head 6 gave it so much more life back.
There's also mechanical and vacuum advances affect it aswell. Little things help. Your training is excellent and right on.
Been timing like this for years but never knew if I was doing it right. Just kept turning it till,like you said, I didn't hear that spark knocking and my chevys have always run good
Excellent info Unk!!
It's been a lot of years since I've had a distributor. My hi-milage engine seems to run better when I take my hearing aids out. I like to call it "ostrich tuning". Over time it's continued to get more effective
We're about the same age and I love listening to you. I also grew up working on those motors.. There's a lot of places that don't have hills and what I've learned is to just hold your foot on the brake and give it a little throttle in gear and you can achieve the same thing as looking for a hill and you don't have to go anywhere.
Great video!! In the mid 80s it was common to see on "older" cars where mechanics would wright the timing they set it at in grease pencil on the core support. Many times the number was no where near the stock spec.
I know I’m late to this party but Uncle Tony, you are a genius and fixed the problem for my Firechicken. I literally just got back from ripping up and down the highways on a long test drive. Thank you!
Good video! I did this to my old dodge truck with a high mileage 360 in it. I set the timing to factory spec and it ran but just not like it should. Advanced the timing more and it ran even better. 👍🏻
You reminded me of when I was young and I used to put new shocks in peoples cars . They used to come back and tell me their car felt like it was new again and they were always very happy with the way their car drove .
Thank you, Tony! I learned of this 'Power Timing" by having a piston be burnt through and not listening to the sound or the feel. It is like trying to explain how much "riding the clutch" you need to do to have a good launch from the line. It does get complicated today because so much is 'by wire' instead of actual cable, bearing, etc. where the feel will tell you what is going on. I was fortunate to have someone teach me as I grew up. Just a saying, "DIRT is for racing, asphalt is for getting there!"
96 f150 350,000 kms... a nudge and a half seemed to be the trick... thanks Tony helped me tow my tools loaded to the nuts across Canada... much happier trip than if I left it where it was... even with the efi.. same basic principal applies... you the man
Automotive knowledge you can't get from a service manual or ALLDATA. Thanks Uncle Tony.
well there are some detoantion you can not lsiten and still there...
You sir are 100% correct. I have tuned hundreds of engines and hard knocks wasn't school, it was way too much advance. And starter "wa wa",,,, your "nudge" is too big of one.
I also see your old school kindness.
WELL DONE!!
Thanks Tony, I’ve never tried the exact method you explained but maybe something similar. My method was to advance the timing until it started to miss at highway cruising speed and then back off a degree or two at a time until the engine ran smoothly at cruise.
have a buddy a do a brake stand while your at the side of car adjusting the timing ;)
I lived in foothills and had a timing light but high mileage motor! Tony’s right in getting a feel! I’d get it idling good but under load( going uphill) it was a turd again! Being it was an automatic trans, I would run it up against an oak tree and leave it in drive! I’d adjust it revved up till smooth running and tighten it down! Worked for me!
Cars today use a knock sensor. The computer advances the timing till it hears a knock. Then the computer retards the timing. This way it does it all the time. Keeps engine running at peak power and this means better fuel mileage. Great show Tony. 👍
Yes but you can tune a mechanical engine- NOT to knock.
@@fastinradfordable Never having knock leaves performance on the table. That's why Tony's tuning style is to go all the way to knock...then back it off a noodge so the engine doesn't throw a leg out of bed. The computer controlled variety does exactly the same thing, only it does it over and over, taking into account variations in fuel quality, engine load, engine temperature, intake air temp, etc...constantly trying to get right up against the edge of knock without actually doing damage...so you always get the maximum performance that's available. Yeah, you can get no knock in either case...but that's not how to tune for performance.
Power timing is very good just did some power timing on my 77 gmc 350 truck runs much better thank you sir!
This is exactly how I do it. Thanks for the validation Tony!
My uncle showed me this when i was 13 (30yearsago) and man this is only the second time i've heard it but have always done it,
Love the videos , and it's good to see someone willing to share oldschool knowhow because it works and applies to alot of stuff
Timing secrets....of the stars!
Absolutely correct there, Tony. That's the way I've been doing it and will continue to do so. haven't had any problems from customers thus far. All happy. Old skool art never dies.
I used to put the car against a tree in gear emergency break on. Then raise the rpm a smidgen the adjust timing listening for knock , valve noise and watch engine shake. Always seemed to work, maybe not the safest way. Its what the old man used to do.
i do the same and it works .i use a second person to hold the brake and i will operate the fuel and set the timing .
I love this idea. Thanks guys.
We would power brake and be ready to take a short ride lol
Used to park cars that way..
Was troubleshooting a stumble on a '78 360 D200, normal initial advance running great at idle. Put it under load and it bogs or dies. I watch this video and lo and behold Uncle Tony calls out the issue! Slop in the timing due to engine age was not something I had accounted for. Thank you as always for the wealth of old school knowledge!
Us mortals use a timing light to do what you’re saying. It takes forever compared to your Jedi ways, but I’ve added a degree here and there until it starts to ping, then back it off 1-2. It worked…well it didn’t explode
Also, it’s funny how Tony says nudge. Lol
You explained perfectly to a T the ticking sound that I was experiencing after I timed my 69 Cadillac with a timing light. Everyone I asked about it just told me it's timing with no ways to elaborate. Going to try this tomorrow.
Good explanation of something this is learned from experience. A suggestion would be to include videos of examples of what you are trying to describe so people can actually hear engines/exhaust in different timing settings.
its a hard thing to discribe when people not in tune with details of sound, is acquired over time you get in tune with the sounds of exhaust notes other sense is smell of exhaust or the color inside of pipe, says alot of things to people in tune of an engine as to spark plugs
I don't have much Mopar experience but I remember helping a friend with his wife's Chrysler (circa early eighty's) He had changed the distributor and it idled ok but had no acceleration power. After a lot of head scratching and playing with timing I found the 318 LA had a CCW B/RB distributor and was retarding the timing with speed. Keep Up the Good Work Tony !
I can't tell you how many times I've had to tell very Tech savvy new generation mechanics to put the timing light down hold the throttle open and start turning Distributor back-and-forth till it sounds good
I learned how to rebuild carburetors 30 years ago and im still learning something new. I know what he saying. It's a feeling you can't explain but just know when its right. Great 411.
been using pretty much the same method since i was a kid the only difference i usually do it with the engine running i grab the throttle linkage and run the motor up to about 2000 revs and hold it there while moving the dissy you easily hear a sweet spot. then go up up hill under load just like Tony said. i'd like a dollar for every car car that i did this to to get running right after somebody had tuned it by the book with a timing light. the usual responce was what the hell did you do to my car its never ran this good before. a lot of these cars were quite new at the time so its not just old sloppy timing chains and worn gears but a combo of "not quite right manufacturing tolerences" as well as outer harmonic balancer rings that had slipped or were made wrong in the first place that add up to quite a lot of degrees out in some of the cars from that era. the funny thing was as soon as you hit the key if it wound over too fast before starting you knew it was retarded. over heating was another common symtom with these cars as well. thanks Tony for another outstanding video.
LOL!
SPOT ON. I have been tuning by ear for forty years. I used to bend my own advance springs in the distributor, but that was often a bad idea. I can still tune most older engines so that they fire when you breath on the key. Only way to get there is experience.
Haha some of that emissions stuff came in so late ,you could almost get away with removing 1 of 2 springs.
That was too much , but not by alot if that makes sense.
Tony are u recycling videos ? Lol…… I saw this live likely …… appreciate these lessons … loved watching you help that kid with the caddy , and u were enjoying the simple , principles to get the idle better and vacuum etc
yesterday i was setting time on my 1974 smallblock chevy nova. spec inside the engine compartment called for 0 degree before top dead center. it "sounded" like crap until i rolled it to about 8 degrees btdc. i didnt know what i was doing till i saw this today. spot on
Start at 7:00 if you just want to get into it
This was one of your best if not your best “how to/tech tip” video. I enjoyed the delivery of the information
Gotta road tune. Slight uphill grade, 3/4 throttle, no secondaries. Barely audible ping at 50 mph... not a flamenco dancer on the hood. You're welcome kids.
I built a car from this man's knowledge no joke it's a beast on the streets 63 galaxie with a high performance 302 thank you unkle tony
I did this on the 55. Actually I've done this on most all my cars. On the 84 I was able to actually watch knock counts too. On that car, what felt best actually resulted in the timing being retarded a degree or two by the knock module... So I hooked up a light and backed it off until it stopped and it's been there since lol.