B16 PR3 vs GSR B18c1 Head Difference by SRDmotorsports
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- Опубликовано: 20 ноя 2022
- Port geometry, Port angle entry and Port Volume are part of the many thing we will check and share to you guys. Ofcourse the all important quench pads and quench distance, getting it to the ideal numbers during the building process.
We try to delve deeper into the subject comparisons as we know there are already videos about this but mainly just identify compression differences and their preference so I hope this one gives you guys a bit more insights.
Mentioned on the video the ITR intake manifold we did can be checked here
• Type R P73 Intake Mani...
Also the K20a PRB head is here
• Honda K20a TypeR PRB h...
and ofcourse the K24 RBB casting too
• Honda K24 rbb head por...
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B16 PR3 vs B18c1 GSR head difference
B16 vs B18c1 GSR head difference what is better
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B16 PR3 vs GSR B18c1 Head Difference
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Glad to see you are producing quality content on b-series motors!
Oh duuuude I mean brother 🤣 thank you for that comment…I mean with limited stuff “still” I try to give it a best shot… there are some K stuff here too but I’m still trying a lot of things on it until we continue to “share”
but also we got some new guys coming along and a lot of times the info is too far in between, we got some “experts” aside from sharing info they include a bit of (pride) “know it all” tone lol
Which I feel some just stop listening to… which is sad cuz they do give good info too
Found this gem of a channel and cant stop binging. Thank u for the great information explained simply
Oh maaaan! Thank you brother! much appriciated
Another fire ass video, you deserve more recognition for your knowledge!
Oh maaaaan thank you for those words!! I realized it’s those things often overlooked and especially in the US when both cores are readily available, unlike here we never got the GSR from the dealer so it’s always from the yard or from the us… so easier to choose the b16 🤣 but over in the US both are abundant and this should be handy to check whenever
Thank you for everything. İn your channel info flows smooth, strong and power is clean 🙌
Oh maaaan! Thank you for that! And I’m glad…
Btw I hope the “translation” when used = I still explain it well on ur language hehe but if it gives more questions? Always just comment il answer them no problem 😎
Thanks for sharing knowledge on the b-series, much appreciated 🙏🏽
Oh thank you brother man thank you! just enjoying it Ofcourse :)
Really crazy information you're giving here, this info is something I haven't seen on yt and I just wanna thank you for it, a lot of people hold this as secrets but in reality people just wanna learn more and further their education, I used to tell people that both heads are great, just skim the b16 head and you'll get the compression of the gsr while still having better flow over the gsr, best of both worlds but now we also understand why the Japanese and spoon sports did builds with mostly oem parts and still made crazy hp just with the right combo like intake and exhaust manifold for example, please keep up the great work
Oh thank you Gudda Man! 😎 tbh I told myself I’d only share 20% of what I know, this way I still have substantial secrets.
Locally it only takes a customer with substantial budget and we will see records upon records fo sho :)
And back on topic, I ageee why Amuse, Spoon sports and many other Jap tuners make crazy good reliability and power that lets them drive like a drunk mofo on track… and still do it thru a muffler whoa!
@@SRDmotorsports exactly! They do all of that without any cut exhaust and some still uses the factory air box intake , those guys really know how to make power with simple stuff and yes ofc you still gotta keep some secrets to yourself haha
@@StraightOutThaGudda4U I always think it’s cool Spoon ran the eg6 airbox and just changed the intake elbow from oem rubber to kevlar looks ballin too haha
@@SRDmotorsports haha yess same thoughts here
@@StraightOutThaGudda4U and since I own an eg4 door I always had an eye on an eg6 airbox I had one but lost it in storage clean up :( but then an ITR airbox that looks like mugen and runs cone filter is too cool to not notice haha
Good information as always
Thanks man! As I did some research I saw videos already that talk about it but mainly covers the freedom of choice on intake manifolds and availability + compression only
They’re all good videos
But I figure some more technical stuff that we all can take advantage of as far as project planning could help so here it is :)
Great info! I'm finding it harder to find B16 heads so I built my b20v with a P72 b18 head.
That’s a decent combination! :)
Here it’s more common to find a b16a so I saved my GSR head for spare
@@SRDmotorsports standard "higher comp" pistons from the B20 with a blox b cam skunk2 Intake manifold with some mild porting. Should make for a bit of fun.
@@robertnewland90 that’s a torque machine! Gonna be fun for suuuure!
Recipe for an all motor monster. Build my turbo setup. Because I've had the manifold and waste gate stairing at for a while. But something makes me want that all motor roar.
@@junieserrano7098 same story reason why I went back to sohc is because of some unfinished business (personally wanna try stuff) before heading back to Bseries again with my spare GSR head
Suddenly now I’m thinking after I get done and dyno with the sohc all motor? A top mount turbo sohc manifold been staring at me for a while too! Now I’m like “turbo is kinda okay as next too” lol!!
Great information here. Obrigado.
Oh thanks amigo!!!!
Great info thanks a lot
Hope it gives more ideas and good plans for the next project :) thank you for checking it out
More good technical info! never knew the intake runner was so drastically different between B16 and GSR
Thank you for checking and yeah even the port entry is angled upwards for GSR right
Awesome content!💪👍🙂
Knew you’d like this one!!! 😎
@@SRDmotorsports yeah.. and u know i quickly computed my compression.. hahaha..
@@ferdinandbenjaminco9113 hey it’s free hahaha
True on what you mentioned on what's good on paper vs actual results. Some have gone after good flame propagation too much and ran flatter/milder pistons then decked and milled the head/block to make up for compression. But ended with an engine that pings a lot at low rpm and also while under load. Not a fan of high dome pistons also but doing either too much seems to not work at all.
Yeah I agree on that, I have lots of scratch paper notes and some of it gets disproven by mechanical measurements and that leads me to “triple” checking most things 😂 on decking and milling alone it gets interesting
Opted not to mention (keep some secrets within) lol but even Dome one of these :
Tumble vs reverse tumble certainly don’t mind the dome…
Funny cuz what if the “tumble” that don’t mind Dome? Is also the head they used while being bent on “less” dome 🤣
@@SRDmotorsports Thoughts on Rollerwave?
@@findtherightbeat it’s pretty smart actually when u think about it, sadly detractors go against it due to dislike of “brand” or person
Lol
but it does delve into the tumble vs reverse tumble spectrum
@@SRDmotorsports They may dislike Larry but at the end of the day the proof of the pudding is in its eating. 🍻
@@findtherightbeat yeah and the thing with “disliking”
know the reason why lol cuz if u can’t find a proper reason then it’s basic envy lol
Like I said to friends before…on “hating” and “haters” how come they’re not the ones above? Always the ones below that “couldn’t” reach or “achieve” it lol
Best content
Oh thank you man I’m glad it’s helping!
Hi love watching the show, I have a b16a1 that I stroked Port and polished, cams,
and would love to hear some advice on what type of header and intake manifold to use.
Thanks David
Oh wow thanks man glad u are liking the channel and videos!
For intake manifold the typeR manifold is always safe but a Skunk2 Ultra street will be worlds better!
On header the 4-2-1 originally designed by SMSP but more known nowadays as a PLM header would work good indeed
Prb vs rbb head please
Ooooh alright man soon! Will work on that since got em both in storage
Great stuff in 6:07 of the video 👍🏾
#quench
Yessss ! when that gsr chamber becomes “killer” lol
What you said in 13:30 which is why low lift flow at the seats is important to get good efficiency.
Yeeep and a lot miss out on the fact that low lift let’s say 0.100” ? The valve sees it TWICE on the induction stroke
First on the “opening” sequence and second on its “closing” sequence but max lift only once
Food for thought 😎
@@SRDmotorsports Exactly!
@@findtherightbeat I guess just “one” sells haha
@@findtherightbeat what’s interesting is in the air cooled vw scene? Even enthusiasts “most” are aware of “port volume” before being “wowed” by cfm in reference to their own build, compression goal, displacement and induction
And our local cats be acting advanced/modern? Lol!
@@SRDmotorsports Some people seem to think domes, max cfm, max lift, etc. will be the silver bullet that makes them good power when it's actually meant to be looked at as a system
My question is, what's the best route to for making a good turbo honda engine? I mean, getting a B18c1 is like getting an act of congress, not to mention that the price has jumped significantly for GSR engines. B16a2 are okay as far as prices go. But I was thinking about doing a Frankenstein engine with using either a B18b1 or B20 block with a B16 or B18c1 head. But I've read that the cylinder walls are supposedly weaker on B20 engines but I know that the higher 2.0 displacement will give more low end torque or so that's my frame of thinking. I know that the B18c1 engines use oil squirters and it has a girdle on the main caps also but you can put girdles on just about any engine. Any help, information or advice would be greatly appreciated.
get the head that you can easily acquire… I mean gsr and b16 head both works for turbo real good no problem
@SRDmotorsports thanks, I can find a few b16 heads near me for pretty cheap. I can actually find b16 complete engines for pretty decent. Would it be better to use a b16 engine or go Frankenstein engine with it? Is there any truth to the b20 having weaker cylinder walls? Or is that just BS fanboy talk?
It’s true it’s weaker but for 250-350whp use it’s fine
but a b16a turbo with a properly sized turbo will have excellent low end too…
@SRDmotorsports awesome, thanks for the information. I have a 96 civic ex coupe and was thinking of going the SI clone route with the B16 engine to save some hassle. What would be the ideal turbo size for the B16? Again, I do appreciate the advice. Now, I just need to figure out what wiring harness to get the B16 swapped into my EJ8. I've found so many people talking about which wiring harness that they used, but very few videos actually go into detail on what they used and what goes where. Lol, but I guess with companies like Rywire, Ksport, etc, it's almost a plug and play world now versus the old days of making your own wiring harness.
True true and good to know… the usual t3/t4 is good check the size they used to reach 300-400hp that shouldn’t lag much
Hello is it possible to mount pct pistons in a b18c4 with original head ?
Yep
Once again 💪 20 years ago they said b16 head flowed better so we all wanted b16 head I remember I friends would swap their gsr heads with b16 lol 😂
well it perhaps did… stock Vs stock but we have seen a lot of guys that port a gsr well even cnc that does awesome
But true I remember those days indeed lol!!
Oh and yes it can be made to flow real real good but unless we are racing in the pro stock class or WCF ? And maxing out the potential then it may make a difference but 98% of the time for everyone else? The GSR still holds it down too good too!
I want you guys to build my next block
Thanks for that support man!
Hello 🙂
Oem b20 block (84mm)
Oem crank (b20)
Oem rod (pr4)
OEM PHK piston
I have a lower engine.
What would you recommend as a cylinder head?
Pr3(b16) ? // p72 (GSR) ?
I have both.
But I'm undecided on which one to wear.
Whichever one gives u more choices on intake manifold
@@SRDmotorsports
intake manifold / ITR
camshafts / JDM ITR
Springs / ITR Double
however, the intake manifold was previously adapted to fit two caps. That's why I was undecided between the two cases in terms of durability, which would be more compatible.
@@muratsalman7493 yes but the ITR b16 manifold angle is not good or correct with the p72 so
It’s better to use the pr3 head with the correct manifold
@@SRDmotorsports ok thank you very much for your answers :) 🙂
@@muratsalman7493 no problem :)
Up!
So quick! Thanks! One of the many tech talks we do at the page huh! 😎
@@SRDmotorsports exactly!💪👍🙂
@@SRDmotorsports there are a lot of tricks in attaining a particular target compression.. its notnalways the gsr head..👍💪🙂
@@ferdinandbenjaminco9113 true I mean both have stark advantages just gotta take advantage of em fo sho
@@SRDmotorsports ..and doing it the right way..
I was curious would it be beneficial to use a B18c1 block with a b16 head? From the research that I've been doing, I've had numerous people telling me that the B16 head breaths better than the GSR heads, is there any truth to this? Because honestly I can run across both engines for pretty decent price and I can find both heads also for a decent price. Thanks for your help, advice and information.
Both heads work good actually and for most street and mix of street and race apps they’re both similar it will boil down to either the b18c1 will be like a Frankenstein style with a different (b16 head) or it wil be a straight b18c1 GSR engine too to bottom
@SRDmotorsports OK, thanks and that's what I was kinda thinking. I know that the B16 and B18c1 engines are very similar and I imagine that Honda put in the effort with these B series engines. I'm mechanically inclined and have worked on plenty of engines but I'm more of a Nissan guy with the Sr20DET, VG30DETT, VQ35HR and VHR engines and I have recently got back into the Honda scene lol.
Another quick question I was wondering about is I know going K series is probably a little cheaper than the B series in some aspects. Like I mentioned in a previous comment, I'm just looking to build a sleeper EJ/EK coupe with roughly around 450-600 hp, I'm definitely not chasing dyno numbers. But I was thinking maybe going the K series route and using the EKK1 mounts instead of swapping out my subframe for a EG subframe. What would be your honest opinion on this route? Sorry for asking so many questions that I imagine you probably get tired of answering the same questions lol, but I'm still in my research phase. I like to get as much information as possible about a topic before I commit to my plan. Again thank you for your time, information and advice, your RUclips channel has been the best that I've found so far with technical support, information, advice and just responding in general and talking about this subject. The technical aspect of engine building is a very crucial step I believe and I'm learning a lot from just conversing with all types of people lol.
A nice read man and thanks!
well tbh the Kseries is Ofcourse as good or better but…one must factor in the part where a 2liter Bseries on a crx or hatch may have traction challenges just simply cuz it’s torquey… now factor in the “cheaper” k24 right? and IMO cam wise it doesn’t change much just the K heads flow better but if it’s gonna be a K24 why run DIC ? That’s like on a Bseries let’s build a 85x95 stroker but run CTR cams cuz we want low end? Bruh the stroke already will give u that low end… k24 has 99mm stroke so gotta think about that
Now a K20a now we’re talking 😂 86 bore 86 stroke gonna be fun that’s like turning ur GSR motor having it resleeved and run 85mm and keeping the 87.2 stroke… just the K has an edge being 86x86 and better flowing heads
but then that’s not necessarily cheaper than a Bseries no more unless it’s a K24
@SRDmotorsports to be honest the only reason why I was thinking about going K series is because I can pick up a K series engine for a fraction of the cost of a B series engine like the B18c1 or B16a2, now the other non vtec B series engines are a different story lol. Plus I was trying to consider that B series parts are starting to increase in price and availability compared to the newer K series engines. Especially since the Ks have been overly produced since their introduction. I'm definitely not chasing numbers nor am I wanting to be the fastest car around because everyone knows he who has the deepest pockets will usually have the fastest car, depending on if that money was spent in the right ways and areas lol. I just want something that's going to be reliable and a little longevity too. So I think I will go with a B16a2 engine or build a B18 LS VTEC and build the bottom end with forged internals and build the top end with CTR cams also. My idea is to build the engine like I was going to make 1000hp but keep it around the 450-500 hp range. With it being in a 96 coupe it shouldn't be too much heavier than the hatchback from what I can tell. I appreciate the help, information and advice greatly.
Oh, I almost forgot to ask about the B18 LS VTEC build idea. Would it be possible to run a stroker kit with the Frankenstein build? Or would it even be beneficial to run a stroker kit on it? Keep in mind that I am planning on going boosted also. I may or may not go NA for a time but at some point their will be a turbo added as long as I can find a reputable tuner around me to get it tuned the right way.
Again thank you for your time and advice. Keep up the great work. 👍
Makes sense actually and yeah if boosted then the B18 or Frankenstein set up might not need to go stroker it will still have excellent midrange and torque
So which one will give more tourque while there’s a skunk 2 pro 1 cam in it with a b20b block
In theory the GSR head due to the lesser port volume but it still depends I mean
Some will use that and then run a ram horn style header that’s known to kill midrange and wonder where’s the torque “they said gsr would give more torque”
@@SRDmotorsports is the yonaka reactive 4-1 header considered as horn style header you are talking about. Not quite sure about this
I dunno that header but I meant the ram horn looking header from eBay…
Basically my point is… yes the GSR will have more torque potential BUT
A b20v gsr on victorX manifold?
Will have WAY less torque than
A b20v b16 on ultra street intake manifold
Granted both are on pro1 if that makes sense
Just checked online it seems like that’s a copy of the TypeR 4-1 seems fine for torque/midrange use that’s quite okay
@@SRDmotorsports guess I’ll have to start searching for a ultra street manifold haha thanks for answering my question
Is the b17 and typeR head really the same in ports?
Yes they are both pr3 casting just like the b16a and b16b
Only difference is the ITR has different intake valves but still pr3
The only difference is the TypeR has the bowls blended by hand
I was told the gsr head is alittle bit better because of the smaller chamber and taller port. What you think boss?
Well “smaller chamber = higher comp and we did calculate it on the video so it covers it
This just helps those who are trying to understand better + see that claims are easy but claim without explanation is sometimes doubtful
@@SRDmotorsports makes sense. I didn't have time to watch the video yet but im looking forward to it. Thanks for all your work!
@@dawsonmacie6984 no worries man… anytime and over coffee or at night is easier than when at work (watching) lol !
@@SRDmotorsports i have the pro series skunk 2 manifold for the gsr head. What you think about that manifold and can it be improved?
@@dawsonmacie6984 yep that one is decent actually and atleast gives the ITR look too
Are you in the Philippines, Sir?
Guess on that one, what do you think…
Pano pag 1840 wth pct piston sir? Sa computation nag rred "error" 12:98 compression ano inputs?
May mali lng sa number na nilagay
Dungaw yan by a few thousands of an inch
@@SRDmotorsports "alsa" as others call it.. hard to see with bare eyes
@@ferdinandbenjaminco9113 yep that’s why at 9:30 we have it cuz calculating is one thing on paper it’s another on reality
Cual es mejor al final gsr o PR3 para block B18C
Depende por pistons but both egualmente bueno o mejor
@@SRDmotorsports Piston p73 blockB18C head pr3-2 cramshat Type R b18C intake b18C
Then the b18c head looks to fit well
@@SRDmotorsports head pr3-2 B16A jdm block B18C its fine
The head is a pr3 from a b16A jdm, it fits well, the block is an original B18C, all type R dc2 works well
Bro you think a b16 a head port and polish with type r cams make any difrents
Depends on the rest of the engine set up but the white civic SiR with B16a we did months ago made 183whp with a b16a head port and typeR cams
I have a lsv b18b with Nippon piston Scott's rods head it's 16a with 3D angle port and polish
Ah this gonna be a nice b18 LSvtec!
Ok I'm gonna get those also check it out I post it on my RUclips channel it's the white one
Heads are cast, no casting is perfect. Every casting is different.
Yes sir yes sir
K series > all series
👊 🤙
Hey man, how did I miss this, somehow I didn't get it in my notification box, anyway excellent information, maybe RUclips don't want me to have a wicked B16A also check your Facebook message I've send you a picture of something you may be interested in
RUclips may have gotten busy lol ima check out the page