The Framework Laptop - I Love It!
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- Опубликовано: 20 сен 2024
- My review of the Framework Laptop. This is the best laptop you can get right now if you want a completely repairable and upgradeable device.
More Details - frame.work/
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I WANNA HEAR YOUR THOUGHTS ON FRAMEWORK! Is it cool to you? do you believe in it? would you get one? think they'll surrvive?
I think this is the longest laptop video i've ever done cuz there's so much to talk about. Thanks for watching!
I'd get one. Right now, they're North America only, but as soon as they come to India, I'll try to get one!
I really appreciate the ideology behind this and want to support it in any way I can.
You pay the same price as a laptop with a dGPU, but instead of that you get extra repairability. If you want that then go ahead, I'll take my dGPU
Gonna buy one of those the second is available in my country, as long as the price is basically the same as the US one
(Italy)
I have a simple philosophy..... If Dave likes it, then it's good otherwise it's shit
@@PeterNjeim You must live in a strange country, because here dGPU laptops start at 1100€.
I can see a low-end version of this (with ChromeOS or something similar) being popular in schools. I work at a repair shop and we get broken laptops from schools all the time that end up being replaced because of nonmodular components failing regularly. A laptop like this can save schools a lot of money in repair costs.
Big public orders would take products like this to the next level.
I think the price premium for modularity would stay about the same though, so if it's 10% to 15% more expensive like Dave thought on a 1000$ device, that's an extra 100$ - 150$. On a low end device that costs around 400$, that makes it a lot less attractive.
@i-mm-o res yea, it might still make financial sense and it's certainly better for the environment, I just think that people might be put off by the higher initial price.
@i-mm-o res My point in my first comment was that it probably won't be 40$ more but 100$ more, because I suspect that making a laptop modular will be around 100$ more expensive no matter what chip you put inside and what operating system you put on it.
@@tec4303 makes sense. The motherboard amount of screws, machine time, etc will be quite similar.
"You can smell it. They give a shit."
- Dave Lee, 2021
Uh oh
14:29 for timestamp
I'm CREASING 🤣
Wait a minute (meme) this isn’t Dave 🤔
This has pun intended 🤣😂
"it has extra thickness"
To be fully honest, without direct comparison, i doubt most people would be able to notice a few millimetres more or less.
It's just 0.3mm thicker than the M1 Macbook Pro. For comparison, MB Pro Retina 13-inch (late 2013 - early 2015) is 2.1mm thicker than the Framework.
is thicker than a surface laptop 3, but is narrower, and the cooling system is far better because those mm extra.
Let's be honest laptop s are not heavy and a couple if mm thicker doesn't make a difference.
Indeed, to be honest I don't think a few mm is a good excuse for getting a 'thinner' laptop. At this point they're so thin durability has become a joke. What's the point of having a device if it is broken when you reach for it? Note there are jobs where thin/light is important, but for everyday use? Not really...
@@BiosElement yeah brand keep making some excuses that "WE" want a slimmer laptop that we can carry all day long. Even your venti starbuck plus your smartphone have more weight and you carry it with no hussle.
It is up to us tech enthusiasts to make this laptop mainstream, if we support this, it can become the norms.
But enthusiasts are not mainstream ever
@Queen Elsa lol
to stay alive, i think they need WAY more volume than just the enthusiasts.
Chelsea sucks
@@Dave2D daddy f word me
No music, no cuts… This guy has the easiest editing job of all youtubers lol. I still have no clue how he talks for 10 minutes without a single mistake. Insane production Dave!
I'm sure he rehearses before recording and that takes time but makes editing easier. I've seen a youtuber live recording his video talking about a movie and he had a paper of what he was going to talk about going over and over until he started recording. It's kinda like an actor memorizing his part.
There were loads of cuts
@@adampeterfong ditto
2 minutes in and 3 cuts
For realll was thinking the same thing
As for mass appeal, I think the modularity of the ports will be the selling feature to the general public.
Yeah I reckon if Apple keeps fucking people over with repairs, this laptop can be marketed to be cheap to repair at your local repair shop. And easy to upgrade down the line. Everyone doesn't have to repair it themselves. But they can still get the other benefits.
I don't think that the molecularity would matter much to the general public... for many people, these ports can be useless. And if they want more ports, there are plenty of options with way more than 4 ports...
4 ports isn't a lot...
@@TheDeathmail 4 ports might be not a lot, but you could choose what kind of ports you want to use. Like not everybody need or always use the MicroSD card reader so might just add one more usb-a ports. And so on
@@gladwindave And they're also bringing out a larger 16" model with 6 ports later this year.
Hm... i don't think so, i Love Modularity, i'm Sad that Awesome Projects like Pockit and Phoneblocks failed or got supposedly cancelled, but the reason why those projects failed is because people are immediatist, if someone want a phone, for example, he/she just want to pick up and use it, without having the problem to buy separated parts, and the other problem and the reason why we don't have at least the option, is the companies, they want profit, and they want profit with No Risk and low investment, which is Not what the Modularity have, an idea like this is very risky and expensive, so of course no company want to risk on something like that, so is Sad for me to say this, but the truth is, the Modularity will never be a thing.
“It’s because they’ve spons…” I died. It’d be so cool if this inspires modularity among big brands
Honestly, id love it for chip manufacturers and their partners to support modularity, but what i really want to see is an ecosystem of new innovators step up and create the space for modular tech as a whole, rather than trash tier old-tech trying to force this concept through their old marketing/production methods and fucking it all up
I was playing the video while eating and I swear I almost spat out my drink when he said that lmao
What time stamp he says that?
Sadly, you cannot inspire big brand.. You can only make them fear you. They will always try to make your whole laptop unless someone else can deliver on modularity.
@@yasirelec 14:53
This laptop is "THE DREAM". Can't wait for an all upgradable gaming laptop from these guys.
Just imagine, hotswapping a gpu!
It’ll be harder because of MXM, but I’d love to see it.
It'd be easier to sell too because gamers are more likely to be into modularity
but i have a doubt, if we upgrade its cpu and gpu, how its hardware is going to react...
cloud gaming is coming
As of 05/26/22 Framework has launched their motherboard with Intel’s 12th Gen processor. They have also redesigned the lid which you can order by itself. This fixes the flex in the lid.
As of 2023-03-24, Framework just announced 13th gen CPU motherboards as well as Zen 4 motherboards, and also announced a new 16-inch Laptop with swappable dGPU and even higher modularity.
@@GeoStreber I watched the live event on 3/24/23. They have some exciting things coming. I started my curiosity and support of Framework 3 yrs ago when they first stared. I was skeptical because so many nave tried to create a upgradable laptop and failed. From the first time cracked open my 11th gen intel DIY edition, I just knew it was different. I created blogs reviewing the laptop and the company. Yesterday was a high leap forward and they planted their flag and aren’t going anywhere!
@@GeoStreber 6 Ports of Awesomeness.
Pre-ordered one because I like the concept and its execution seems solid. Configured it with no OS, No ssd, no ram. Going to install linux, use the NVME I pulled out of my razer blade pro that I upgraded last year as well as the ram. Saves a couple hundred bucks and puts to use components I would otherwise have no use for.
love this approach
I would buy the Wifi module (because they have WiFi 6 and I currently don't have that) but I'm definitely keeping my NVMe, mostly because I'm planning to upgrade the storage on my current laptop and my RAM is already 16GB DDR4 so it wouldn't be an update.
That being said, I'm not planning on buying one until my current laptop breaks (probably from a cooling failure if things keep going the way they are...), mostly because doing so would be needlessly generating e-waste.
Why Linux?
@@hellodumplings8564 Because why pay a hundred bucks or more for something less secure or stable?
@@hellodumplings8564 because the people who would be using it, Linux are their lifelines. Windows is not something these people go for.
I love my framework so much it just came in and I'm very satisfied. The build quality is incredible, much higher than I was expecting.
That's great. Does the outer case feel sturdy? I have a M1 MBA with great build quality but zero upgradeability and very poor repairability. I hope Framework really catches on so the big co's start offering products like this too. I think the original MBA ushered us into this world of glued/soldered throwaways...
That's good to hear. Was sceptical, the display frame looked a lil off to me. I wanted maybe a stronger/higher quality aluminum display border but I think it's ok. It's also customizable and with more possible options in the future!
How is yours holding up? Mine is still going strong as ever. Best laptop I have used.
@@AS-tr5cg mine is great i love it
@@williamnale7835 it is very sturdy
Imagine having "repairable" as a selling point...
What a lovely world we live in.
I don't think repairable is the selling point. The selling point is easily upgradeable but anything easily upgradeable also has the side effect of being repairable since at worst you can "repair" by replacing a subcomponent instead of the whole system.
capitalism baby
We have allowed it to get like this. A big selling point for legion 5 is the fully upgradable ram, unlike soldered ram on asus. Repairability cost will come down if people start caring again. And in this crisis climate i will take this laptop over any other if only it had a gpu. That is the only thing keeping me from owning one.
then fight for right to repair
Deffinitly happy to support projects like this to make "repairable / upgradeable" the norm so disposable devices go (at least mostly) extinct
For me this is a no brainer. When my macbook dies this is definitely my next laptop. Never having to pay apple's repair costs again will be great and being able to choose the specific ports you want to have will be fantastic.
Macs are reliable and great- but you’re right.
Imagine if this thing support hackintosh
@@RidwanNurzeha knowing the move to arm and Apple’s own M1 chip, I’m not going to be surprised to see Apple axing x86 support down the line, maybe in less than 5 years time even
@@fireworx_925 In the framework community, there is talk about them creating ARM motherboard +cpu designs. So if the company lasts long enough (not an easy task), hackintosh could still easily be a thing.
@@fireworx_925 and makes the MacOS as more closed system. Love the OS but not the price 😂
If Framework does well enough to get into gaming laptops I'd get one instantly. Being able to upgrade more than storage and memory is a DIYers dream
GO BUY THEM NOW!
Other then some super thin laptop and recent macbooks, most gaming laptops allow ram and storage upgrades. Just not graphics and processor. LOL
@Phoenix 𝙾𝚙𝚎𝚗 𝙼𝚢 PROFILE Yeah you're posting this comment everywhere, we get it. Now stop spamming.
I’m thinking I could go for it now and maybe later still have that flexibility. Either a new motherboard with the GPU or when they support thunderbolt (which may be sooner) for an eGPU case. I’m not a gamer and would just be for personal productivity use, so for me it’s not a showstopper yet. The freedom of upgradeability in the future with the portability of a laptop is what makes it so appealing though.
You can get an eGPU, which wouldnt be very mobile, but neither are gaming laptops anyway with the battery they eat
Fortunately they're gonna release their 16 inch version with a discrete GPU soon 🎉
I ordered one and will hopefully get it next week! I love my M1 but for a thin and light repairable laptop, this looks ideal. I can’t wait to get it. Great video!
Wait youre a microsoft developer that chose a macbook? 😯😯
@@nagoyen7292 Microsoft will eventually move to ARM. x86 is not the future.
@@meetankush x86 will still be relevant in the future
@@QuanNguyen-yw3ft Well, they will be around, no doubt, but they will be as relevant as VIA processors are today.
we need socketed arm chips because soldering everything on a desktop is going to piss a lot of people including me off
Can we get a montage of Dave saying “all right”
And when he says "Ok" as a segway to the next segment.
@@DJEcchi yes! Okay and all right
Sure I’ll make it 😂
and every time he takes a deep breath
@@DJEcchi and thats all he needs xd
I work at an energy utility and we're looking into the framework laptops to replace our fleet of Dell Latitude devices. The price is quite comparable, but the repairability is king for us. The ability to maintain our devices well into the future with upgradeable motherboards and replaceable everything is very appealing compared to the standard obsolescence cycles of every other brand out there.
Did you guys go for it?
@@masteroogvvay unfortunately not. We tried, but after several requests for a quote I was told "Add the items to your cart and that's how much they cost". They simply don't understand how business operate with quotes and invoices. I can't order 100 laptops on my company credit card 😄
Hopefully they get their B2B sorted and I can try again. It's a fantastic concept and device.
It sounds like their b2b has been set up now @Josiah Hoodenple
@@Xamy- I'll have to give them another try. Thanks for the tag!
@@josiahhoodenpyle4813 You make it sound like a bigger problem than it is.
This could be one of your most important videos ever when it's all said and done Dave. Thanks for posting it. I wish framework all the best, they don't have anything that I would need right now but I look forward to the day they do!
because not all major youtubers are covering this framework laptop
Arguably, Linus Tech TIp's review of Framework is vastly more important by reach alone. Marques Brownlee's video about Right to Repair is important for diversity and minority reach. (Framework should have a matte black / glossy black config _just_ for him.) Louis Rossmann's videos are more important as the flagshiip of R2R culture.
But yes, this video is good. I want to see this laptop in more hands, on more screens, with right to repair being the the drum they all beat.
@@bluephreakr I said it could be HIS most important video... I'm very aware of all the others... Thanks?
Then give them money
How else are they gonna make new stuff
@@AcidiFy574 Just give them money, good advice.
There is no “conversation to be had”. These companies you speak of did not try and fail.
Rather, they built computers that lasted as long as something you pay a significant amount of money for should (unibody MacBook), and they realized that they were “losing” money because people weren’t upgrading to the new thing every year or every other year.
This all changed when they realized they could make a lot more money on expensive and overpriced repairs, proprietary parts, and doing shit like serializing the battery to the phone.
All of this no longer incentivizes companies to actually innovate and release good products but rather release new products with minor updates and garbage like soldered on RAM (looking at you as well here Razer), soldered on memory, charging chips that are prone to failure and when they do, instead of replacing an $18 part you have to take it to Apple for a huge repair bill or have someone like Louis Rossmann rip apart an Apple battery pack and steal its charge port (creating unnecessary e-waste) all because Apple won’t allow the chip maker to sell to independent repairmen/repairwomen and that chip has a little controller in it that speaks to the computer, that if not present, will not allow your computer to charge. AND shit like Apple’s keyboard being riveted together; ALL so that in the end there is no upgrade path
Thanks for coming to my Ted talk
And go support right to repair while you’re at it
This is a pretty old business concept that's been around since the 30's. Its called Built-in Obsolescence; where consumer products are intentionally designed with a limited shelf life to ensure a steady revenue stream. Its the backbone of many industries.
Modularity is not totally at odds with the idea since end-users will still be replacing parts of the build over time. But I believe most companies just lack the wherewithal to pursue it.
For a modular model to succeed they'd need to do a few things differently:
1. Offer end-users a ridiculous amount of variety in terms of modules - spanning from vanity items (custom skins and themes for the frame, bezels, keys etc.) to more serious fair. "There's a module for that", should be a given.
2. Raise consumer awareness so that the average Joe has at least a basic grasp of internal hardware and the value of modularity. A tall order to be sure, but I don't see this company sticking around if they don't at least try to cultivate that mindset among potential buyers. That's some serious ad spend right there.
3. Make the process of removing and installing modules near instantaneous and effortless. Screws are probably not going to cut it for long term sustainability (or durability). They need to look into alternatives; poly-magnets might be a good option for them to explore.
And that's just scratching the surface.
In any event, I hope they manage to pull this off somehow.
When I read your comment, I hadn't watched the video. I assumed from your first line that Dave was sort of inviting companies and the industry in general to consider this modular model going forward; to have a conversation. With this assumption, your comment made sense, because it's clear that the OEMs are ignoring repairability on purpose. I was surprised that Dave could really be that naive.
Then I watched the video and wanted to smash my head into the wall. You misunderstood the entire product category he was referring to in the beginning of the video. He wasn't claiming that the modular MacBooks and ThinkPads of 10+ years ago "failed," he was talking about more recent projects that attempted to bring that modularity back. Look at Google's Project Ara, or the Moto Mods, or most recently, Dell's disastrous Alienware Area 51m (which they're being sued for). All of these projects genuinely tried to bring modularity back as a niche selling point, and they all failed. He was rightfully comparing Framework to them.
I appreciate the history you're laying out here, but I assure you, the people making these videos already know it.
@@abubakrakram6208 To be honest I was pretty drunk last night and I only watched the first few minutes before it set me off. It feels like all these tech channels are supporting Right to Repair / user upgradeable computers to save face. They still keep in contact with these manufacturers. They still buy the products and use their services/ecosystem. Nothing changes and they just move on to the next new product. It leaves those who bought said product based off their recommendation stranded.
@@Czechmate88 Ah, I see. Yeah, like I said, I read your comment before watching the video, and I'd also only seen the first few minutes when I responded to you. It turns outs Dave actually listed the devices I wrote out at 13:50, so my comment was kinda pointless lol.
About supporting RTR just to save face… I'm not sure. He said he bought one, and I don't think anyone who doesn't believe in the project would do that.
To be successful, they need to offset the loss profit of selling a new computer to selling upgrades for the older computers. Another issue is a single part upgrade after a while requires other upgrades, thus making significant (or whole) replacement unavoidable.
Beautiful engineering. Nice to see a company making their equipment repair being so much easier.
This is just amazing. The amount of care and engineering they put to build this product is fantastic. I can see to buy something like this use one as long as possible, easily mod it in the way I want. This is type of upgradability is mind-blowing. This can go a long way.
For a consumer-grade laptop this might be mind-blowing, but modular laptops already exist and have done for decades.
@@FlyboyHelosim not at this level. This one is not chonk and is actually viable for the mainstream.
I love how tech is coming back around to the old ideas. This is a wonderful upgrade to the old PCMCIA ports we used to have. Give the end user options that they can easily implement and you will make a lot of people happy. I do think that most people will still opt to have companies tell them what to want, though. I really hope this catches on... again.
Exactly, a lot of people did use the PCMCIA slots, these are even easier, I don't think this is just a concept for tech savvy computer geeks, upgrading the internals sure, but anyone can swap out a port and I think we all at one point or another have to carry dongles for various compatibility reasons. With this you could just plug in the ports you regularly need and change it if something changes, like a new projector at work that needs another port type, I can see that being attractive to a lot of people.
@@dijikstra8 Absolutely. For me, I look at port selection first when getting a new laptop. If Framework gets this right, it could change the industry.
@@kidigus True, true. If it caught on, though. All for Framework and right to repair here, but there have been valid worries mentioned in the comments for sure.
Agreed, I want modular tech to be normal, planning to get a Pinephone Pro once their available, and probably a framework laptop later on especially if they make AMD version!
They won't win
I can imagine big company’s using framework hardware instead of having expensive business notebooks and their extra support fees. Our IT-Support team could repair hardware like this on their own. I hope that’s the future.
I was actually moved by this concept.
I really want them to succeed.
I was all for it until i found out it lacks a GPU for the price you could just buy a gaming laptop
@@AwkwardYet a lot of "ultra book" don't have a discrete GPU, and charge far more than a mid-range gamming laptop. These kind of laptop focus on build quality and battery life for normal office work and light entertain, not gamming
@@AwkwardYet You're absolutely right, but I think that all manufacturers should learn from them, replacing glue with magnets and screws and even the interchangeable connection ports are far better than Apple's dongle idiocy.
A laptop review more than 10 minutes? Very unlikely for Dave.
More than 15 😅
I am the cool kid from Germany making videos for the USA and the rest of the world. I will make your day so don't say nay to me today, dear fa
@@AxxLAfriku rhyming "day" with "today"
bruh
Unique review for a unique device.
@@AxxLAfriku "cringe"
Preorders went live in the UK (and elsewhere) yesterday. Preordered mine today.
I'd have loved for Lenovo to continue with their modular laptops, which was what their T-series used to be famous for.
Their loss is Framework's gain.
Man, I miss those modular T series laptops. Like the T430. That thing was a tank, and being able to just... replace the CPU in the laptop? That was top notch. Not to mention Trackpoint superiority.
They need to add more features that can only be achieved with the modularity. I don't know what exactly but they need to sell modularity as a unique and interesting concept to make this work. Hot-swappable ports are nice but lots of ultrabooks in this weight class already come with a variety of ports so that won't enough.
I think the customizable ports are already that: No other manufacturer let's you choose whether you want an HDMI or a USB-A or another two USB-C ports. They might even get some attention in the enterprise this way.
repairability should be a key selling point but it's unclear how effectively they can market that to your average Joe. however the objective fact is it's a huge selling point that you can replace practically every part of this laptop. that alone gives it vastly more longevity, as screens crack, drives fail, battery degrades, etc. and you aren't locked in to ridiculously expensive first-party repairs like with apple.
@@henninghoefer true. But the only real benefit it has over dongles is that it's out of the way / integrated. I think most people would rather buy the "sexier" laptop and a dongle over this.
Seeing comments like this is actually amazing. We don’t know why modularity is desirable, but we’re _so sure_ that it is that we’re trying to come up with ways to gaslight the average Joe into wanting it. How much stronger can the irony get?
@@GeekProdigyGuy maybe they could create a 30 second ad comparing it to MacBooks and similar laptops, showing how rediculously expensive repairs are for them and then explain how the framework laptop can be easily serviced with just a few screws and how cheap the rates for it's repairs at independent repair shops are
This + external gpu would literally be the dream. They need to make it happen! Also, can i just say your enthusiasm was just infectious in this video, absolutely loved it.
I could see an eGPU in a case that fits underneath the back half of the laptop. It plugs in one of the back modules ports, and raises the back of the laptop. Cooling would be vented thru the back.
Naah i would say his enthusiasm was way more extreme in the Optimus prime Video :D
eGPUs already work i believe
External gpu is as good as the screen. If the screen doesn't support good fps, then better gpu serves no purpose. But in productivity pov it's okay.
@@LeDrPsycho I always have to remind people that 5 years ago, 60Hz screens were used for gaming and people were very happy with them.
I'm really digging this concept, the ability to really customize it to what I want sounds fantastic.
I wish we lived in a world where this was a standard rather than the exception
I think for enthusiast features like modularity and privacy in a mainstream market like smartphone or laptops, to become , well, mainstream, is to one up competition in some way , other than the modularity or privacy. Those are becoming less and less viable as a selling point alone for the mainstream. But if the product is better overall, than that feature becomes much viable
@@vedaryan334 That’s the problem: the product is worse, not better. Intel’s Tiger Lake CPUs can use 4200 MHz low power ram, but if you want to use socketed ram, you lose the battery benefits and are capped at 3200 MHz. It’s not a big deal, but like you said, if someone doesn’t care about modularity, they probably won’t buy it.
Agreed, then maybe incest porn would have a more mainstream appeal….for a friend of mine.
@@abubakrakram6208 and like dave said, 99% of people buying a laptop doesnt care about stuff like this, you ask most people what cpu they have in their laptop they wont have any idea, like even with apples m1, there are tons of people who have an m1 device doesnt even know what an m1 chip is
@@snow2460 Those same people will never open their laptop, no matter how modular it is inside.
The benefit of deciding (and changing!) which side the HDMI comes out is huge
True that !
what benifit does that have ? Am i missing something here ?
life changing, from perspective of person who don't care about HMDI at all, cause i use usb c for everything!
It’s USB-C too so you can choose what orientation as well!
@@ThePhooPhighters on my setup for example, there's no space at the right side of my laptop for cables, and all the other cables are at the left as well + they would be too short to go around
This would make an amazing learning tool. A "my first laptop upgrade".
Even if it just helps people think of computers as collections of parts rather than a discreet unit that works / doesn't work would be a win.
Got this in my recommendations. As much shit as we give RUclips / Google, but by the gods that algorithm is insane. It obviously knows I'm into tech. That's easy. But at this point I am convinced that thing also knows I'm into channel run by people with an incredibly calming voice and an honest heart and way of presenting themselves. Totally subbed, man. Keep doing what you're doing.
I purged my subscription list a few days ago; got rid of all of the channels I don't watch repeatedly. This channel made the cut over another channel, that does tech reviews, because of Dave's demeanor. I only watch his vids like once or twice every couple of months but yea, he's got the right energy.
The RUclips algorithm is legit. Crazy how things that id be super excited to see i see basically immediately, stuff that im only somewhat interested takes time
This is the most interesting laptop I've ever seen. I've always thought about this concept but to see it in full force is something special.
There's far more interesting laptops than this.
@@FlyboyHelosim I really couldn't care less about any other laptop when this is in the picture. What this strives to achieve is way more interesting to me. Modularity appeals to me.
@@rtsa4633 So you decided to reply with a negative tone without considering what I was even talking about. I, too, was referring to other, equally modular laptops that have been around for years from established companies and that are far better constructed than this one.
I really hope Framework stays above for at least a decade. This kind of laptop, with Gentoo on it, it's like giving the finger to the GAFAM and the BATX companies. ‘I am not a number!’
Love the split screen segments to show the internals.
Was thinking the same thing....👌
As soon as I saw this laptop I've got the same thought, I always wanted a modular gaming laptop, the fact that you could replace primary components it could be a game changer for sure, let's hope the best for Framework ✌🏻
Can you comfortably play games with this laptop?
@@paulnguyen215 You can do light gaming, it doesn't have a discrete GPU, so like CSGO, Valorant, LoL and other light games ;)
@@JohnnyChiuchiolo You can actually play AAA titles with high end gaming laptops. My 3 year old work laptop can run those games....
@@davidyang3068 Yes actually I meant you can play smoothly with light gaming, I have a laptop with the exact specs and titles like BF5 for example are not that smooth, but yes they mostly run ;)
I think people are more intetested in Framework Launching a gamer version of this laptop, not saying this one is for gaming.
IT admin departs must jump at this. I've worked at IT support in an University during my student years and we saw a lot (not to say A LOT) wrecked ports, where we had to buy an new one, had prfoessors waiting, and all the setup work (data transfer etc) only to replace a broken port... this is pure gold for customer service in a company. Just give them a new adapter and bam! they would be ready to go on the spot...
I'd love to see this company successful. Great review Dave.
I feel like it’s not the hinge but because of how flimsy the screen is 😅
Arent u that kids minecraft youtuber?
hi ragelixir used to watch u 6 or 7 yrs ago haha
@@the-algorithm-beaten1897 omg he is😂 I used to watch his collabs with Unspeakable
Here before This Comment Blows up
@Joe What's So Bad About it Tho? It Was Meant To Be Super thin And Light
I appreciate your more level-headed review compared to others I've seen. The amount of unrestrained hype and gushing was starting to make me really nervous about this as a product and the trustworthiness of those reviews. I really appreciate your addressing some of the flaws of the device and giving a more balanced look.
I think this will do very well in a corporate environment, where everyone in the company has a laptop and the IT department can take care of the swaping of components as they age/break.
Exactly what I was thinking. If they can guarantee support and parts for the laptop long-term, it should work out for them.
This is amazing - I remember my old thinkpad that you could swap everything out on.. it lasted years because I would just swap out the battery when it got old.
my g series lenovo is the same!, and i love that i can pull out the battery easily so i can use it while charging without breaking the battery
t450 i swapped in cpu, added ssd and got many more years out of it
I used a co Thinkpad awhile back that fell about 4ft to a hard computer floor and was 100% ok after I snapped the optical drive back in...No cracked screen or case or broken anything..
I'm absolutely certain my next laptop will be from these guys. Will wait for them to add more keyboard layouts and maybe more options with the expansion cards and an AMD CPU
Ngl I think everyone likes the Framework laptop, it’s hard to not like something that’s designed to be long lasting and repairable.
Yeah, but everyone’s not buying it. Which isn’t a great sign for their future.
This is a surprisingly niche opinion. Most people prefer it thin and with a bitten apple on it
@@franciscofarias6385 This, but unironically.
I'm all for right to repair and sustainability and I'm not nearly naive enough to assume this company will last the lifetime of one of their devices. Let that sink in.
Hey Anthony F*****, how're covid cases going
They need to market it in a way that proves their product to be cheaper than the competitors down the line. If they launch a better version soon I'll buy it without thinking.
I think they need to convince the enterprise market. If a company switched to this, then their IT techs could fix their laptops.
It's alway about the marketing.
Same. As soon as they have one with like bout 8 CPUs and a dGPU, I'm sold
@@SamoScopom that is an awesome idea. Make Dell lose enterprise market share.
The thing folks forget...it's the first attempt and its basically 90% there! I got mine last week and I love it. Seemed so odd being told to take your new laptop apart within 5 minutes of unpacking it...
I believe they got the foundation right, they just need to sell exactly that now
@BB Brothers Unboxing u dont need to spam links to get famous just work hard
Honestly one of your best videos. Your passion for this topic really shines through and you've got me convinced.
From what I understand, the Thunderbolt hardware is there, therefore everything should work, certification or not. Plenty of people seem to be running EGPUs on these. I also think the latest screen backing and hinges have been beefed up too.
The model with intel's 12gen cpu has USB 4, so that's why it's compatible with thunderbolt
this is an amazing project, i really hope they continue with this and serve as example for other companies!
Glad a lot of people are starting to recognize Framework and their repairable laptops, and the whole Right to Repair stuff.
I saw Linus talking about this and I'm very interested, especially if they start having Ryzen options
Sadly, no plans for that yet. $700 for 4c/8t is steep af.
idk man, for a laptop, those upcoming 2+8 Alder Lake chips might be the better deal than Ryzen
He invested like a quarter million into the framework company
@@GeoStreber no... without dedicated GPU option, ryzen bringing their good IGP is the best deal
@@six8810 Have you seen the benchmarks for the 96 CU Xe iGPUs? They're not bad.
I honestly wished that repairability was a requirement that no company could bypass. And also that laptops underwent some kind of standard for socketed components. I mean honestly how can we justify 1-2mm for the excess e-waste- and production normal business tactics cost.
we the consumers should be enforcing that, have media report on the internals of devices (iFixit for ex), and choose according to our preferences, but that requires more work on our part
“If I don’t like a product nobody should be allowed to make it” - this guy
@@MrEmiriv The biggest issue in my opinion is that leaving responsibility solely on the consumer doesn't really work in reality. The primary interest in our current economic system is to exploit consumer patterns and behavior. Generally consumers are not aware of the global effects of their consumption, and companies do whatever they can to earn money on their consumption. Nobody questions why their phones are made completely out of glass. or why they can't upgrade memory, storage or batteries in their laptops. There is a tiny enthusiast community that care about this stuff, however the general masses don't reflect on this and will continue to mindlessly consume until there is a enforced standard in place.
@@jacobschweiger5897 it's not a matter of not liking a product. It's a matter of creating a global market built on standards that are more ethical towards our world, and consumers.
@@PixelShade how it it ethical to tell consumers they’re not allowed to buy electronics that aren’t reparable? Repair ability comes at a cost and maybe that cost is worth it to you but should people get a choice?
Fun fact : If dave makes a video more than 10 minutes then he is for sure love the products reviewed
Coming back to this video in 2023, it's cool how many if your build quality complsints have been resolved with new parts - stiffer hinges, a more ridgid back panel are available on the websute now
"They give a shit"
I felt that. I really hate when companies create products for the sole purpose of making profit. Whether that be planned obsolescence or just poor decisions, it really annoys me when they make these anti-consumer devices that will just end up in a landfill 10 months later.
The company is a pure profit. How do they do it? Reduce its lifecycle.
Hear, hear! 👌
At least if one die they have to bankrupt, they die as a hero.
As a laptop repair aficionado, this is amazing to me.
Visionary video. The company seems to have taken a lot of inspiration from this.
Framework also provides schematics for the laptop, making third party repairs easier. So in theory, norms could just go to any repair shop and get their laptop fixed.
I'm saving up for this laptop. I am super stoked about Framework and where they go in the future.
hope they progress and stay in the business.
this kind of modularity is what we need for us consumers and enthusiasts.
we should expect more from them like evolving these laptops into gaming and other productivity platforms so us can choose the best possible configurations and upgrade options.
thank you dave for sharing this video.
Omg! The satisfying clicks of snapping those modular ports in! 💕😀💕
Thank you so much for covering this brilliant product!
Can't wait to see screen and keyboard upgrades for this laptop--potentially community-made ones! And community-made ports as well.
I'm totally with the Framework laptop, this should be the platform philosophy moving forwards.
@sbcontt YT upgradability is a must especially for THIS price point. You are conditioned to not expect it. But it is a must.
@sbcontt YT but I agree with your point. Having a great $500 laptop that competes with this pretty much disqualifies this for less intelligent people.
@@hazyproduct1692 We can already get about 600 USD laptops that are six cores it is most likely AMD(Acer Swift) . And for the 500 USD it's mostly likely Clevo, Tongfang laptops but in the West it's much less accessible unlike Eastern although it's mostly Chinese who does even though the OEM parts they buy ain't from them like Clevo being a Taiwanese OEM company. Although there's a lot more needed like 4 cores and gtx 1050 gpu range on the price range of 500 USD. But within 600 USD Range it's achievable I've seen good reputable ones but are can he a bit tricky for Western buyers because taxes
@sbcontt YT One thing about is probably discontinuation in production of older hardware. Unlike in mobile segment where once flagship cpu became the alternative for the budget years later because a new and better one was used for the flagship devices. If Nvidia wouldn't discontinue some good'ol gpu that are still somewhat plausible to be built on a lower end device probably thermal design things can change. Or if they want apply there new gpu building tech but make it less to make into budget especially with Rtx3000 where it's really dense with cuda cores. I think they can but don't want to do so they have excuse in pandemic but later they don't
@sbcontt YT upgradability doesn't matter in the smartphone market because they aren't widely used as utility devices.
Frankly, I don't care about thinness at all. I don't know anyone who does. I mean, I don't want a brick for a PC, but I have absolutely no use for thinness in a laptop.
Yeah never found thickness to be a selling point. I mean if they'd argue it will weigh more, inside a backpack, I'd still feel the weight no matter how thin they make laptops. Only thing I can see is wrist ergonomics when typing.
It always annoyed me companies, namely Apple, use the thickness of a laptop as a selling point. Shaving off a few millimeters until there's no more room for common ports.
Agreed. Better cooling, noise levels, battery life and memory/storage options are ALWAYS preferable.
I think the target audience for the computer are people who enjoy thin laptops, but want them to last more than 1 or 2 years. That fits me, and it also fits college students that want one computer to last 4 to 6 years. Busted key on the keyboard? Good luck fixing it on your own with glued down components. I have replaced numerous laptops for busted keyboards and charging ports. It would have been great to simply replace the keyboard without breaking off tabs and connectors.
The laptops on the table in this video are all thin. That hair, tiny little sliver of thickness in exchange for the ability to upgrade it is amazing. Thinking that fraction of a hair makes any difference is insanity.
I really hope that Framework laptops find their footing in B2B. That is probably where these kinds of products will shine. If I was a business owner I would totally buy these kinds of devices for my employees. It's a bit more expensive but so so cost-efficient in the long run. You can probably even buy a bunch of spare parts with a stack of these laptops so that there is no downtime if/when a laptop is dropped on the ground, a fan stops working, the battery starts to go to shit, a keyboard key stops being responsive, you spill a beer on it, etc.
They announced they'll be doing AMD and Arm editions in the future if this model does well
everybody here is the one to whom our family and friends come for tech advice, we could make this concept go main stream
Issue is I just couldn’t recommend it to someone, there are better options
@@lewisprice2743 i didn't mean this particular laptop, but the concept of it.
But yes if on a budget then there are definitely better products
I’m with Lewis.
I cannot tell a family member that they’d appreciate the modularity more than a system that has LP ram and better battery life. That would be a lie.
@@lewisprice2743 IMO if somebody is going to spend ~$850 on a laptop (going by Dave's estimate of 15% premium over competition) then spending $1000 on this instead is likely to save them well over $150 in the long run when some parts inevitably fail. I would definitely recommend it if there are no other deal breakers (which I would understand, e.g. touchscreen/2-in-1, gaming)
@@GeekProdigyGuy stuff like display, size, build quality, modularity will always have these issues, unless I think they’ll get an obvious advantage from the modularity, it’s a struggle to recommend it
At my previous company, we would have loved to have these when there are hundreds of engineers travelling aroun. They'd often come back with broken screens, broken ports etc. We could have a few spares on the shelf and just swap the ssd, get them back on the road and then repair the one they brought back and put it back into the pool. You then go to a client and they only have display port or only HDMI or only USBC etc. The changeable ports will be a godsend.
One of the good things about framework modularity is that they use a standard connector like USB C unlike Moto/others, meaning that third party support for it will be great
Even Apple uses USB C 😂
Yeah, this is one of the big factor I think that may help to be successful, at least in terms of possible 3rd party support.
The issue of modular devices from big companies, they just designed their own proprietary connectors and modules that it will not work with other brands.
What this Framework laptop did is to use standard Type-C port as the connector, and the modules are simple square, so it's easy to design and manufacture. It is simple, but that what it makes it good for modularity. It doesn't need to be too complex to achieve modularity.
When he was talking about the bad screen, I really thought he would just put in a new real quick :D
Dave shows monkeytype at 10:35 and this service is absolutely awesome. Thanks!
I use a HP laptop and regret it immensely because HP apparently loves to hide screws underneath the rubber feet. It's been around for close to 2 years now and now it runs hot even with just Discord open. But because of the screws being hidden, it has dissuaded me from opening up the laptop to repaste the CPU and clean out the dust.
So to see a laptop that supports upgrades and repairs, I'm just all for it. When I need a new laptop, Framework will be at the top of my list.
Very easy to remove the ruber feet tho. Just make sure to protect them from dirt when removed and they can be put back into place. No need to replace the adhesive.
@@zvahrog3711 Yeah the rubber feet aren't difficult to remove. In fact, one is peeling off on its own lol. My main concern was whether it could be reattached, and the peeling end isn't giving me any confidence.
Guess I can give it a shot, but I would still rather the screws be out in the open.
I'd love to see a Intel nuc (the bigger one) case for the internal mother board. Imagine buying a new desktop powered by a newer version and swapping the boards so your laptop is more powerful.
smells like burnt plastic...
Battery wont hold up
They thought about it. When you change the board they are gonna offer a case or the cad so you can print it and well, stuck the old board there.
@@chaitanyakulkarni6416 yo good point, but that's the point of this laptop. They want us to able to repair it. Scan the QR and boom new battery on order.
@@diezgp so hype dude. People say it's not good business. I say otherwise, return business is the name of the game. Reality is people buy whatever laptop is on sale.
Brilliant review. Comprehensive, thoughtful and balanced. Really good. Thanks.
I really hope they eventually release a version of the laptop with fully-enabled Thunderbolt support. That would open up a ton of opportunities when it comes to add-ons.
They’ve been saying on their forums that it should support Thunderbolt. Did something change?
@@abubakrakram6208 this has USB 4.0, and USB 4.0 and Thunderbolt 4 are the same thing now. What it is missing is only the correct certified intel drivers for it, since Thunderbolt is intel tech. So this laptop can get thunderbolt support in a single software update
@ Actually, I'm fairly certain they already have Thunderbolt, considering people have been getting eGPUs running nicely with them. They literally only need to get through the certification process before they can officially market the thing as having it, but it's already there in function.
Fairphone managed to stay afloat and their mission statement is similar to Framework
i liked both these products when I first learned about them, but how am I supposed to even buy them. Neither are available worldwide.
This solution is very good for worldwide distribution - just import spare parts in bulk without the need to assemble every single custom PC in a Chinese factory and ship it individually. With this concept, it's possible to just import in bulk every spare part and assemble ad hoc locally a custom PC very fast. So, this is innovation in logistics even more advantageous than just reparability.
There really isn't much of a conversation to be had when it comes to big retailers vs what this framwork laptop is attempting to do. Big retailers/manufacturers wants to say we tried, but failed, so buy new shit every year so that we can make more profit on top of further waist.
I'd really like to see something akin to the ATX standard for laptops: case, screen, GPU, CPU etc.
There is a laptop GPU standard, it's called MXM. It's not extremely common but it is still around.
This is the future I wanted. I'll do my best to make this my next laptop to support future ventures.
14:53 "It’s because they’ve sponsored..."
I lost my shit with that comment 🤣🤣
I mean it IS sponsored. Why he's trying to hide it?
There is a sticker "not for sale" on the back of the laptop, which means it was sent to him for a review.
The whole monologue sounded like a scripted marketing garbage with lots of lies, as if he is trying to sell this overpriced junk with "repair/open-ability" gimmick.
$1000 laptop, and on top of that they dare to ask a $9 per module, which is a piece of plastic with a USB-C connector? gtfoh
@@RmFrZQ I think that you don't get the concept of such a laptop at all, as there were no lies in the script, and yes, it probably is a script, most RUclipsrs write scripts so the video sounds more professional.
Most people who know tech, understand that this is an amazing concept, and that Framework's team is doing their job amazingly atm as it's only their first product, and it's already pretty high quality.
The sticker doesn't mean anything either, a lot of companies send free review samples without even paying for the sponsor spot, as it's a good way of marketing.
For example, most products that get reviewed in Linus Tech Tips' videos, are sent to them for free, and they still talk trash about them if they are bad.
The price isn't that much more than a similar laptop without those features, and they currently cannot afford to sell it for a lower price as they are a new company (AFAIK), that's the only way they can actually make enough money to keep working on new parts for the laptop and new products (as they aren't that popular for now).
And well, repair/open-ability is not a gimmick at all. Maybe it is one right now, as if you buy the laptop, it's new and won't fail for a while, but if you had it for a long time, some stuff will eventually fail anyway or new parts will come out that will allow upgrading it without you needing to buy a whole new laptop.
More accessories can also be made for it, as Framework's engineers actually help other people design their modules (I have seen that happen on the forum), oh, and 9$ per module isn't that bad considering the thing that I mentioned earlier (about it being a new company, etc.), that a USB C dongle typically costs around 20 USD, and the fact that you can just make your own module, as the reference designs are on GitHub.
And as a side note, I am currently looking for a laptop (as I will need one in a couple of months), and I am thinking about the Razer Blade Stealth 13 (because of the build quality+performance+size), but because I like this concept so much, I am willing to buy the Framework laptop instead just to support them and kinda advertise the brand by just using it, so hopefully it will be available here by then.
@@oa1700 "Most people who know tech, understand that this is an amazing concept..." Yeah, good luck repairing that motherboard with SoC CPU, which is really everything a laptop consists of nowadays. Any modern laptop could be opened easily anyway, just undo a few screws and take apart casings. Many modern laptops now come with soldered RAM which is a bad thing and should be avoided.
For a $1000 you can get a decent laptop from Lenovo T-series or X-series. Spare parts for them will be available even after product discontinuation and there is like zero incentive to buy inferior product just to support some small company that could go OOB during warranty period.
YMMV
@@RmFrZQ Tbh, it's really unlikely that the CPU will fail.
Btw, some laptops aren't that easy to open because of adhesive, etc. and the way the Framework laptop is made, makes it easy to be repaired by anyone (if it's just some part that needs to be replaced ofc, not some tiny SMD component)
Upgradability is nonexistent on all laptops at the moment though (apart from RAM and storage), and Framework is about offering that as an option when new hardware comes out, and imo this is the most important feature of it.
About them going OOB, that's possible, and I do agree that it's not such a good idea to buy such an inferior product (no dGPU when I kinda need one, but Iris Xe graphics could probably be useable too), but in my case I want to do it just to contribute a little bit from my side. I know that it's literally nothing as I am just 1 person and 1 laptop isn't enough for that, so I think that it's more about hoping that someone else that I know buys one too after seeing that I use one, then someone else buying one too because they see that other person using it, etc.
@@oa1700 _"Btw, some laptops aren't that easy to open because of adhesive..."_ I've yet to see one with the adhesive. They all have screws and plastic clips around the edges of the casings. In general you really have the options to buy either HP or Lenovo brands, simply because they have complete service and repair manuals publicly available. I wish more companies were more open with technical information and specifications of their products.
_"Upgradability is nonexistent on all laptops at the moment though (apart from RAM and storage)..."_ There won't be anything else, because you can't replace mobile SoC CPU or soldered GPU and even if they make them socketed options, then you have to also replace complete heatsink assembly with a more efficient one, which could be impossible due to internal space restrictions, otherwise your laptop will overheat and throttle a lot, which defeats the purpose of an upgrade.
_"I want to do it just to contribute a little bit from my side..."_ You do you. Personally, I would not support companies that have to *lie* through mouths of sponsored YT-ers in order to get attention of a potential customers, just to sell them overpriced devices, which really should cost around $500 for a laptop with CPU integrated GPU. I have enough tech experience to see through marketing bullcrap in this video and make up my mind.
Dave “it’s because I’m sponso…..”
You made me spit out my drink you monster. Take my like
I'ev seen 3 reviews of these so far and no ones taking about the use of this in an office environment/professional environment. Yes post pandemic WFH does significantly alter the norm of offices and workspaces, but they wont be gone forever. That in mind, the IO this laptop offers is huge for the small business to large enterprise. The ability to swap in/out the needed ports ON THE FLY to connect to external displays, projectors, data banks, printers etc is huge. Eliminates all dongles and extra wires, if you clients IT structure is out dated, not a problem swap out for a VGA and USB A port...the powerpoint deck continues on.
My X1 Carbon that is stiff and repairable can still be opened with like 5 screws (retaining ones so you can't even lose them). Laptops don't have to be glued shut to be stiff.
umm yea but the X1 with the same config is $2000 while this is $1000, literally half price
@@andyb9664 same same config or same "same"?
@@Ryuudo123 256gb, 16gb, 11th gen i5
x1 is 2 grand, this is 1 grand
In comparison to thinkpads it’s getting rough for framework.
@@andyb9664 X1 is lighter and smaller, and it's a Thinkpad, you will always pay a premium for the brand
Always click on your video whenever it releases. Don't know but your videos have something that gives calming and good feelings. Keep growing bro ❤️ Lot's of love from India 🇮🇳
Same lol
Same here, it's as normal as breathing, something you just do without thinking. Cheers from 🇸🇪
Love this idea. Still using a 2012 MacBook Pro and upgraded it to SSD and new ram. Hate the fact if the new laptops break you cannot repair.
"it's because they've sponsored..." joke needs a series on its own lmao
I really hope they make an AMD version next year one that uses a good APU for light gaming use.
The new XE graphics on the 11th gen intel chips they are using are no joke they are arguably on par with AMDs offering in terms of performance - and they still have some driver optimisations to come
AMD would be the dream
amds apus (at least their higher end ones) can run freaking vr if you can stomac 40 fps so yea amd apu would ve great
I would love see a 15-16 inch and 6-cores of this version. So amazing this laptop. I hope this concept of repair would stick into the consurmers mind. Difficult.
guess what
@@ChrisTian-sd5yq😮
and asus says they are having only 1 dimm slot in their 15inch gaming laptop the zephyrus lineup "to make it thin."
Better than soldered RAM, I guess ^^
@@xX12VincEXx yes but upgrading 1 dimm slot makes the ram run in single channel and in most cases reducing performance(inculding gaming) and is not as optimal as putting equal capacity ram sticks in two slots
@@aryansanghariyatxb8646 true. Have they only 1 RAM-Slot, or 1 RAM-Slot + 1 soldered RAM?
I really love the concept of the Framework laptop. I hope the company succeeds!
I will support this! I'm really hoping Framework becomes available in the Philippines.
Love this.
A 15 inch, colour accurate screen, 6 port laptop with full size SD slot and thunderbolt module would be an immediate buy for me as a working creative.
You talked about the thickness but not the weight. Weight wise it is very similar to those non-reparirable laptops with the same specs. Honestly weight is important, while thickness is not (unless it's a super thick gaming laptop)
So I disagree that they made a signficant compromise by it being a bit thicker than competitors.
I've never really thought about upgrading my current laptop or really opening it up at all, but the swappable USB ports are an instant win from me. In a couple years when my current laptop dies or becomes old I'll definitely look for the Framework laptop again. I've also heard it's built for complete Linux compatibility!
I'm actually very impressed with the thickness of the laptop considering what it does.