UPDATE! Many of the issues I point out in this review have been fixed addressed by Framework. For updates be sure to check out my full Framework playlist. ruclips.net/p/PLwMvJ82pMgANOBK9ZL9rY4s2ExgLiYnYm&si=q18f-cBHd2vePJZF
I think it speaks to Framework's radically different approach to hardware that a "long term review" has such a different meaning when the product ecosystem is built for long-term support and reparability. If this was a black box laptop from any other manufacturer then six months of daily driving would have identified most, if not all, of the quirks and given an idea of whether or not the manufacturer was going to offer any more fixes... and that would be that. With Framework, firmware updates and hardware fixes keep trickling down through the range months after release, and as other people have pointed out, some issues can just be nullified with a part-swap. I'm not sure there are many other laptops where you can come back 18 months after your original "6 months later" review and find that the situation has improved :) Framework systems aren't perfect, but I'm convinced they're doing good things, and seem to be improving all the time.
I agree with your conclusion at the beginning. If someone is looking for raw performance or battery life, they would probably go with something from a different company. But because of Framework's focus on repairability and sustainably, alot of people (myself included) have shown interest in the device, even if it's only to support this movement. Great video!
"Battery life is bad, about 6 hours" Coming from a Dell laptop that, in three years, ate through 2 battery packs and even on a fresh one never delivered more than 3h, that's awesome to me.
That may be true for you but what about someone coming form an older MacBook that still gets 8+ hours of battery life? That's why I compared it to current similarly spec'd laptops.
So I have a Framework en route to me and my first reaction was "oh man the trackpad is crap" and started having buyers regret, until I realized I can just... swap it out if they provide better ones? That's what makes it remarkable - I have to unlearn all my consumer paranoia.
this will be the big revolution if framework *actually delivers* on new motherboards and other upgrades (like trackpad) that are compatible with their first gen laptop. If they really manage to do this then hats off!
That's IF they provide an upgraded trackpad. Framework will likely struggle to stock all parts... or be able to engineer next generation laptops while keeping compatiblity with the old form factors.
That's if they stay in business at all. Bringing a laptop to market costs millions and this is a niche product at best. The average consumer is still going to buy whatever Amazon or their local big box store has. The average business man or grandma that checks her emails isn't worried about repairing their laptop.
@@EmergencyChannel It is true that we as a society have traditionally have done a crap job at educating consumers about what's really pro-consumer (and most countries have failed to create laws to match) - but there's an economic argument for "hey, swapping out a broken charge port when someone steps on your cable with this particular laptop is only $5 and 5 minutes, not a $100 repair for a week", both for end users and businesses.
Working for a company whose CEO is an engineer I can say that this is not always a good thing. The CEO should be a business leader. I would prefer a CEO know accounting and marketing instead of Maxwell's Equations.
@@davidr7304 All "business leaders" know how to do is hire overpaid consultants, layoff employees to boost value for shareholders, and take multimillion dollar bonuses. I'll an engineer who understands the value of R&D and long term reinvestment in the company as a CEO any day.
@@davidr7304 Two things can be true at the same time. I agree with @iamsuperflush that a CEO who has no idea about his/her company's products or how they are built/developed, usually does only the min-maxing, but not good product (or rather company direction) decisions. But of course, a business leader should also understand how to run a company. That's not always easy to balance, but it is doable.
@@iamsuperflush the CEO can be both ,A CEO should know about the product is selling but the CEO must absolutely need to be a business leader ,if not the company will go down , so yh you shouldn’t just put an engineer that doesn’t have business knowledge as a CEO
This being the first generation of the framework, I am not surprised there are teething issues. I agree with your conclusion wholeheartedly - I want to support the company because of their stance on issues that are important to me. I am not expecting perfection or anything, just yet.
@@dirtbike662 Not sure if there will be a gen 2 per se, I would think it would be more of an expectation of upgraded motherboards and/or expansion to AMD
This is a project for people who are just plain naive. The company cynically uses the sentiment for self-repair, but in fact sells expensive laptops with poor parameters.
Cool part of this is that they have a user installable hinge and backplate upgrade, which solves your hinge issue. They have confirmed and ethernet expansion, and they are working on the power draw. Awesome to see that Framework is hearing the userbase and working on fixing it.
The thing is, framework should be supported not only to enable them to make better laptops, but also to force other companies to make better and more repairable laptops
@@eckeeyou couldn't be more wrong there bud. Take macbooks. They're basically impossible to repair, unless you're apple. They also get full of dust very quickly. You should check out louis rossman. Laptops break very easily. My Samsung book2 pro died within 2 years. The CPU just cooked itself. And is apparently a very common issue with that line of laptops.
If I had the means, I would support them. This is their first model. I see a bright future ahead for them, if others in the industry also appreciate their long term goal.
Going the DIY and i5 route (very very similar performance) you can get the whole system for just under $1000 which makes it an easier pill to swallow versus $1500, still not perfect but look forward to the future
2 года назад+32
The performance disadvantage of the i5 is small... IF you put two sticks of RAM in it. Tiger Lake loves dual channel memory; you take a 25% performance hit if you use only one module.
@ I would love to see actual comparisons of thw two in real world tests. I was considering getting the i7 with 64 gb of ram abut i might change that to i5 if it makes ssense.
@ Tbf all cpus work much better when all memory channels are used, otherwise you are leaving lots of memory bandwidth unused. This might not matter in certain applications, but it is clearly felt in a lot of others.
I appreciate your transparency and honesty. I thought your review is very trustworthy. I purchased a framework back in December, but don’t use it all the time simply because I don’t have that level of workload at home. So I appreciate hearing your perspective as someone who has used it consistently for 6 months.
Good review. The fun part for me with this laptop is how I upgraded from a 2011 machine. So this is worlds ahead and most of the battery life or performance issues don't register for me because it is so much better than before. How often are people replacing laptops? Because I'm just surprised at how tech youtubers obsess over certain factors which would be negligible for someone like me..
It's not about comparing it to old laptops It's about comparing it to the other comparable options you have when you are considering upgrading from your old laptop.
@@ElevatedSystems I appreciate it, I guess I am suggesting the pros of the framework being adaptable, repairable, upgradable, useable outside the chassis, and pro right to repair outweigh the tech differences since they seem trivial to me from my 2011 stance. However, you are right, and my 60% luddite attitude biases me.
@@lunaumbra5179 I too will be coming from a 2011 machine, more specifically a T420. Nice machine but its really starting to show its age. as far as battery life is concerned, I am used to only having a few hours anyway so the framework would be a major improvement to me as well.
About 5 yrs. 8 with a real banger of a machine. I think 10+ is very rare. Laptops are, unfortunately, way more disposable because of issues with repairability and upgradeability, moreso the latter, since you can at least rma around the former. Unless you only ever really needed a device with the limited functionality of a Chromebook to begin with, its at that half-decade mark that not being able to freely do either will start to kick your ass and make the device unreliable or just plain annoyingly subpar for your workload.
@@FakeDadRealFriend Nope, business laptops last a hell of a long time. 10+ years is nothing for them. And a lot of people just need a basic laptop to check emails, and a 2nd gen core i5 should be adequate for that.
Fair review, I mainly look at it from a TCO total cost of ownership. This laptop is going to be usable longer than any laptop i've ever owned (cause I can just upgrade and replace stuff if needed)
Good review! I’ve had mine for a couple months now (batch 7) and I enjoy it, but agree with your criticisms. I really hope we see future hardware upgrades (better trackpad, for example) hit the marketplace, as that could really set the framework apart from devices by other manufacturers.
The nice thing about the problem with the mousepad is, even if it is a hardwareproblem, you pop it out and put a fixed replacement in and you're off to the races.
I'm DEFINITELY INTERESTED a laptop that I can upgrade and repair just like my Desktop pc. What has always irritated me about laptops was their proprietary locked system of hardware. Great video 😊
Great job! More reviews should be like this. Detailed yet concise, fair and ballenced. Provide the positive and negative points and give the viewer the info to choose for themselves. Thanks for not giving us sponsored fluff.
The good thing about framework is that even its flaws are easily fixable, like if a better trackpad is released all we would need to do is to swap it, the same with better batteries, you dont need to buy complete new setup to have better and improved experience, much like pc you just swap a component, i wasn't expecting framework to nail everything from the start, but now is the time for them to truly shine, if framework get the component market to work right than it will start its rise to leadership.
Even then I don’t think framework will be even close in terms of performance to companies like Apple, who people mainly only buy products from because of the brand name, and how common it is.
I don't see the framework laptop as a product made for the brand-aware apple crowd, the high demand gamer or the professional video editor, but for someone who wants easy availability to replacement parts and repair. Sacrificing some performance and battery life and gaining user serviceability. Which is a great thing in principle.
@@HappyBeezerStudios Most of the Apple laptop crowd would actually be better served with a $300 Chromebook from what I've seen of their usage patterns.
What's amazing to me, also having daily driven one for the last few months, is that it's far better than any other first-gen product I've ever seen in this space - even WITH all its teething issues. I'd much rather have this than anything else. Period. The fact that everything is swappable makes a lot of the issues you mentioned much more easily fixable than with any other laptop. The killer feature for me is the FOUR TB4 ports - more than I've seen on any other laptop, period, and it's not discussed nearly enough.
TB4 is just marketing. all they did was take the bottom out of the tb3 spec and call it tb4. its not better at all. and im pretty sure higher end macbooks have similar specs.
“Issues with features not working, bios and driver problems, component problems” “Sensitivity has definitely gotten worse, the pad routinely doesn’t register single or double taps, multi gestures are often missed two fingers tap three fingers swipe, it’s hit or miss, even the right click area sometimes click but doesn’t register”
This seems about what I expected. When I can justify buying a laptop it will probably be from framework. I do wish smaller, more netbook-like laptops were more common in general, and if framework made one I would buy it in a heartbeat. Hopefully they'll be around for many more years!
The return of the subnotebook. Some 12-14'' laptops would probably hit the mark with super portability while still offering all the OS and software compatibility one is used to from bigger machines. Even with a cut in performance for longer battery life.
This is the exact configuration that I am waiting for. Because it will have the really good battery life and single thread performance that I need for my applications. And from what I heard, they may have rDNA three graphics instead especially on the Phoenix series which is the lower watt Apus
Thanks for your review! I've been running a Batch 6 machine since January and I am forming an opinion very similar to yours. The more I use the Framework, the more I realize it's an average laptop from a performance standpoint. Battery life has been my greatest pain point. The hinges have been very similar to previous laptops I've owned and the trackpad has been fine. Nevertheless, I risked freight forwarding a unit to my country due to the serviceability, longevity and value for money. My Framework build is still cheaper shipped compared to a getting a similarly spec'd machine locally. Part of being an early adopter, but I'm still enjoying the ride!
I just wish they made a gaming focused laptop, like a second chassis, that could fit a dedicated gpu, and such things that appeal for gamers, keeping the modularity Not that gaming laptops tend to be as much of a pain to repair/upgrade as non gaming machines, but still, would like to se a gaming framework Edit: this aged like fine milk, they made it
i love seeing long term reviews like this that REALLY get into the aspects of using a device every day, and this one was brilliant. truly awesome content man, i enjoyed watching it
I think most of what you show does give me hope for the product. It is the first revision of a new product from a new company and if they release upgrade boards hopefully using ryzen and new versions altogether addressing the problems I'm still optimistic that they will get it right
Great review! Although I am excited about the potential of this company, I had yet to see a "real" review of this product. Thanks for being honest about this. I am hoping they fix some of the pain points, ie battery life in a future model somehow. Thanks!
It's really nice that for all of your complaints in this video, they have fixes/or new parts to address these areas. They have an upgradeable new screen hinge that is much firmer, a matte/matted screen replacement (instead of being stuck with a glossy one), they have an optional speaker system that's much louder (if that's what you wanted), they have an Ethernet adapter that slots right in like any of the other square slot port adapters, they have a larger capacity battery (not a huge difference in size since physical sizes kind of limits max watt hour capacity for the time being until battery technology gets better and evolves, but it is larger in capacity), they have replaceable touch pads, keyboards, etc. It's a really cool design and something I have been wanting a company to come out and make since 2001. Oh yeah! And they have an AMD option motherboard too that you can easily swap out!
I really want to support framework, flaws and all, conceptually I can accept a higher price for something that is meant to be repaired rather than replaced coming from a new company with an uncertain future in the market. But in reality I'm worried that for the price I'll be left wanting something a little more capable as I want to take on more graphically intensive work, and don't have the money to have a separate modern desktop pc and a non potato non falling apart laptop. Tough position to be in, honestly considering simply upgrading to a steam deck and living with the slight inconveniences the formfactor presents when trying to treat it like a laptop.
Hopefully Framework will have another laptop, with dedicated GPU, soon. Though I have no idea if that soon will be Q3 2022 or 2023 or even later. Designing a motherboard + chassis like this is quite the challenge.
I think the next iteration of this will be a lot better. After all this is version 1.0. I’d like to see options for motherboard with dedicated graphics (3050/60 at most) for the casual gamer/editor . I don’t expect this to ever be a hardcore gaming machine or at least not in the near future.
I'd say, a Framework laptop with even an Nvidia 2060 would be awesome, though a 3060 would be even better. :) While I don't game or do computer art, it would be beneficial to gamers and artists alike. Blender models could be rendered well. Also, some scientists may use GPU computing for running simulations.
Please keep us posted on your experience with the framework laptop and their costumer service in the future. I feel like most (if not all) of the issues (except battery life) can be fixed by the nature of the company, in offering replacement parts. Do you know if there is chattering on the fw forums about this? I am very curious if this will happen in the future. I do agree with you and wish they'd rolled out more io swap options over the last months, thatd have been great marketing for them. Personally I'm still on the fence, mainly for reasons of price, and my current laptop is slowly becoming unusable, but is still not there yet. Basically im not in a rush and dont like spending money haha. I'd also love to go fully open source and hope they will bring amd to their mainboards in the future. Maybe ill buy myself a graduation gift in a couple months✌️:)
Great review. I've been experiencing similar issues with registering mouse clicks on the touchpad. I bought it knowing it was a beta (batch 3), but the nice thing is that nearly all of the issues can literally be fixed in the future without buying a brand new machine. I'm still hopeful somebody will eventually figure out how to build and mount a Thinkpad-style keyboard (with trackpoint) to the existing chassis.
Great review man. Really nice work, you sound like a very honest man and pointed to all the issues. You also made a great case for why we should support the product, even tho its far from perfect. Honestly I think this will be my next laptop.
Just heard about Framework laptops online yesterday and was looking for reviews this morning. While watching this one I instantly fell in love with your review style and really respect your unbiased analysis.
This was a really excellent video, more people need to do high quality long terms reviews like this for consumer tech! This gives so much useful information for both potential customers and Framework.
This framework thing has just recently gotten my attention and I have the feeling that pretty much all the downsides have been addressed in the meantime in one or the other form. I'm hyped about this laptop
I love the concept of the Framwork Laptop. If I needed a portable machine, it's probably one I would strongly consider. I would like to see some better battery life - though 6 hours is in the "okay" category, and I would love to see more screen options, including one with P3 color gamut coverage for designers. As much as I hate Apple's choice to solder everything to the board, one thing they really have going for them is their wide color gamut, high resolution screens which are beautiful for serious designers.
Fair review and matches my experience. I don't have a problem with the trackpad or hinge so far. Battery life matches your testing, sometimes better, sometimes worse -- depends on workload. I consider this more of a "mid-term" review though. The principle of upgrade "ability" will be the key to a long term review IMO. Can I upgrade to fix those things that could be better? That is the key for me. Thanks for your review!
You're different and real compared to other channels. 👍 Love these later comparisons. Used to be the way reviews worked back when we weren't spoiled by new hardware every month. Respect for this video and all the work you put into it, thank you! 🙏
This video was recommended to me after watching another video from a month ago that began with a hinge upgrade. I'm grateful for honest reviews and honest engineers with willingness to use feedback constructively.
I almost got a Frame-book recently while I was in the market for a new laptop. There were really only two deal-breakers: 1) No other screen options. I really need a 17in screen to be happy 2) No discrete GPU options nor a way to do it over some sort of exposed PCIe I realize that those options are outside the kind of laptop Framework wants to make, but I'm just saying, if they were to have another laptop build option that falls closer to a gaming laptop with a larger chassis, place for a GPU, and a bigger screen at the cost of higher price and battery life, I would've certainly bought it instead. I bring that up bc I was willing to pay a lot of money for the laptop I did get, so I feel like that might be a missed opportunity for Framework as theoretically adding an exposed PCIe slot and a bigger screen to their existing setup shouldn't be that difficult, but idk maybe it is; I'm not Framework.
What you gotta realise is, this is a young company, they are still proving themselves to the consumers. They have a small team of people, itd be a waste to split that capacity over making 2 different laptops. Better to make one laptop now that is good for mass market, rather than 2 that might be less good and take longer. This way they get their name out into the world. And down the road, after seeing some growth as a company they could always focus on making a gaming laptop.
You have thunderbold 4 in there. You can use an external gpu that will have more raw power than a discrete gpu. Of course you wouldn’t carry a gpu everywhere, but for me I wouldn’t need one most of the time so at home I could game or do some heavy workload.
Coming here a year late, I love to see that most of the issues have been addressed. Battery life still seems to be a problem, but there are upgraded replacement hinges, track pads, and speakers.
The more I heard about this the more I hope they release a version 2.0 with most of the issues fixed but keep compatibility with the current one. The touchpad is so big and it would be even better if it doesn’t need to be replaced because of the issues u mentioned and the fixed one could be for sale instead of the original to improve the laptop you already own. I just hope they make a change to the name so it’s more apparent that a change was made unlike other companies that do silent changes
Just ordered mine, and my biggest worry is still the battery life. I really want to love this laptop, and looking at measurements I think the battery should theoretically fit into my workflow, but just barely. If not I’m returning and getting a used x1 carbon, but will pray for framework as I really want them to succeed.
This is a company that cares about it's customers, and the environment making things more serviceable and also a very open attitude I hope someday I can get a framework not just cause it's a great laptop but also because I want to support things like this
Saw your 1 week review, was one of the first tech-y videos I watched after emerging from BMT. I've since finished tech school, gone operational, and am in the market for a replacement for my 9 year old Dell Precision... lo and behold this video gets released. Thanks for the honest review! Definitely keeping Framework in mind when the time comes.
Framework Laptop does have several flaws but is otherwise very impressive for a 1st time product from a start up company I must say. One major flaw I have is the weak speakers and the flaw where the left speaker creates an annoying buzzing reverberation within the laptop chassis that makes me go into the volume settings and bring the left speaker output down to 50%.
@@ElevatedSystems I saw that and I appreciate your explanation. However some of the viewers haven't seen it, so IMO it's not ideal to call it TB4 without giving that explanation in the same video, it's possible it might confuse or misdirect viewers.
Since it can be charge via USB Type C, I would usually have a battery pack that could charge it when I'm on the go. The only thing that held me back from it is the lack of dedicated graphics. If they can get something like an A370M into it, I would be interested in it. Very nice company, very much hoping they can expand further.
As I see it, The framework is just my investment into both needing a laptop for my work (College student who does Game Design and traditional programming assignments) while also fulfilling my lust for building a PC exactly how I want it. Sure it may have it's flaws, but to know that when I want better performance or god forbid I break something in the laptop through water damage, I don't have to shell out another 2-3k for a maxed out kit, but just enough for whatever part(s) need replacing. I hope framework improves the issues shown, but the company itself is so easy to root for that the flaws of their first product feel very passable to me personally. that can change real quick if they don't answer some of these issues in the nearish future (when they are at where they wanted to be in the first place storefront wise is my cutoff), but I'm willing to give them ample time to address and fix them if it means I get to support them long term happily.
Would love to see a gaming laptop from them, I think that could be very successful as PC gamers are generally quite familiar with upgrading individual components of their rig progressively, and if they can make a chassis that will allow for discrete GPU upgradeability as well (I have a feeling the different cooling requirements would be the harder part here) I think they would have a big market to pull from.
I think the GPUs are going to be a pipe dream because the cooling, as you say, is going to be impossible for anything more powerful than something like a 3050 due to the form factor. External GPU enclosures are likely the best you're going to get with this one.
@@JinghisKhan Well I would expect a gaming laptop to have a bigger form factor than their current one, basically all current gaming laptops are in fact larger than the Framework, so would make sense for them to go with a similar form factor; I wasn't expecting them to cram that into the current machine.
I'm loving the idea, but I really want a 17 inch version, preferably 4k, oled, touch screen would be great too, and the option of hooking up an external graphics card but not necessary. I want that all in one portable option that I can use to truly do everything I would at home and the office but on the go with the ability to upgrade things down the road and easily repair broken parts.
I don't have my hands on a framework to test this, but there's a few options in the BIOS such as "enable TCSS wake from sleep" and PCIe power savings in the windows power plan. You should *definitely* take a look at those and see if those reduce the power usage of the dongles at the very least. I found these settings initially because I noticed that when my eGPU was plugged in, I literally could not get my computer to go to sleep fully. It would remain on and more importantly, generating heat as long as the eGPU was plugged in. Disabling the TCSS wake from sleep and reducing PCIe power savings to max power savings fixed this.
I’m still waiting on the AMD option for the framework. I’m definitely interested in getting one, but battery life is more important to me on laptop so not interested in an intel chip.
I agree with the trackpad issue, so I typically use a USB vertical Anker mouse instead. Additionally, I get feedback (high pitch tone, and a clicking noise) while using headphones plugged in. Its not the headphones themselves, since they work fine with my desktop computer.
It's not a car. It's a full size truck. It's sold in: United States, Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Colombia, Argentina, Chile, Paraguay, Angola, Peru, Europe, and the Middle East. So no... not just America.
I appreciate the candid review and am glad RUclips recommended this video. I'm confident the trackpad is covered under warranty, so hopefully, the issue gets resolved with a hardware revision.
Bit late, but I have a MacBook Air M1, 8gb ram and 256gb ssd, and my dad has the framework with 32gb ram and a 1tb ssd. They both ended up being around the same price. In terms of sheer user experience the MacBook feels a lot more premium. The MacBook is also more portable, has a significantly better battery life, and has similar performance to the framework. So overall, the MacBook is definitely a nicer laptop to use, but you sacrifice upgradibilty and freedom. In the long run, the framework will probably last longer, so you have to choose which laptop based on upgradibilty and longevity or performance and user experience.
I have the base MBA, mainly as the Framework wasn't available where I am when I needed my replacement (the Mac Mini also didn't work properly with the monitor I had bought recently). For my use case I'm kind of regretting getting it, mostly as it tends to have RAM issues, whereas with the Framework that would have been easy to fix. The repairability is also a worry for me, knowing my luck (the previous laptop had something spilled on it!) Have to say though, the portability of the Air is pretty amazing, don't think it can be beaten with comparable performance. It's also nice to have a laptop that doesn't need to live connected to a power supply...
I still have a mid 2012 MBP with its original battery from new, so its around 10 years old, put in 16GB RAM and an SSD, its very quick and is still in use now, Apple products are solid. From what I've seen in this video, looks like framework has some issues in the QC department, trackpads shouldn't be failing early on in the laptop's life. That said I hope this gains traction and they sort out the issues, could be onto something with the modular ports at least. Although I'm not in the market for another laptop as I have an M1 MBA as my daily driver.
I'm planning on buying the framework 16 when it comes out (after reviews, I don't want to preorder) but this is actually a useful review for things to look out for, to see if they've improved on what was suboptimal in the framework 13. Thank you
Pros: - It’s the most well-built laptop I’ve ever had. It just feels solid when compared to the plastic-shelled one I was coming from. - expandability and modularity is great. I just built an eGPU setup that compliments the laptop and all goes in a small backpack. - best screen (in terms of resolution) I own. Cons: - super loose hinge. was a passenger in a car with poor suspension on Michigan roads and had to constantly readjust the screen. - I fell victim to the odd failure to post big in the bios after not using it for a few weeks and accidentally nuked my boot drive by trying to diagnose it. - I would pay for a touchscreen replacement/new enclosure for old screen to make a portable display but nothing has surfaced yet so I cannot help out more.
Great review! I agree that the battery life leaves much to be desired. I work from home so don't run into this issue too much, but I am hoping that future firmware updates plus Framework-specific Linux improvements (I run Garuda right now) will improve this. That said, if it never improves, I'm still happy I bought it and am very excited for the first time that I am able to forgo buying a new laptop by simply upgrading this one. Can I ask where you got your wallpaper? I looked for it online but didn't find it (although I did find a lot of other cool Framework wallpapers).
@@lucadiprima3821 I don't own the original files but if you google image search "colorful mountains wallpaper" you'll find it. I just overplayed the framework logo.
To be fair, if you're really concerned with battery life you should have a high amp external battery pack, that can charge you on the go. I agree that battery life is important, but my personal threshold is 4 hours, if you make that benchmark you're good to go! Otherwise, all good points, and I think I'll grab a Framework for my next computer, hopefully around xmas.
I love your style of review and your conclusions. I do hope that Framework can continue to succeed as a company as I hope to buy my next laptop from them when I decide to move from my current Dell XPS 15. As you mentioned, there will be issues with a first gen product such as this. However, I have faith that they can and will iron out these issues in future revisions. In particular, a version with a dedicated GPU
Excellent video man. Battery life is really important to I would say all people looking to buy a laptop, and I sincerely hope they improve it in the next gen! Cheers
Problems with the Framework laptop: 1) Repairability and modularity are NOT selling points for the vast majority of people because the vast majority of people will not take advantage of it. 2) Any laptop like this NEEDS to not only be equivalent in quality, but superior because you have to overcome brand recognition. Most people will buy the Apples or Dells or Asuses because they're a recognizable brand and people will go for the familiar. 3) Port modules will NOT be supported long term because most people will not utilize this feature thus most will not buy any modules, thus removing any financial incentive for Framework to release new modules. 4) I have my doubts as to the viability of long term support for upgradeability of this laptop. Other, larger companies of tried this and have failed. If you separate your emotional desire for products like these to succeed (which I had to do as well, by the by) you'll be forced to agree with me. Plenty of companies have tried modularity in electronic devices and they have all failed.
@@KrolPawi There were also some modular Dell Alienware laptops around for example. And the point isn't that these companies aren't around anymore, the point is that they stopped providing upgrades, compatible expansions and so on. For example the first Fairphone models advertised as upgradable similar to the Framework laptop, but instead of releasing upgrades, they released a new Fairphone model with incompatible parts. The point is that's very hard to create compatible upgrades and that also applies to the laptop market. Framework can of course design a Ryzen mainboard, but very likely there will be problems having the same connectors, having the same layout, having the same cooling requirements. Maybe they can make the Ryzen mainboard smaller and then they're having to ask themselves if it makes sense to waste physical space and development time to preserve compatibility or if they should create a new case design that has more room for a larger battery or whatever. It's just a financial decision they have to make, and only a small part of users are probably actually interested in upgrading their mainboard only. Maybe in 3 or 4 years when the laptop gets slightly old, the case will have scratches, users might also want to have a matte screen that could've be released then, the battery might have degraded, and instead of upgrading single parts, it might just be more efficient to simply buy the new model and sell the old one on ebay. To me the main selling point of Framework would be build quality, robustness and repairablity. (And of course all the standard features like performance, portability and so on). Having potentially upgraded parts available somewhere in the future with nothing confirmed at this point isn't a selling point to me. And robustness is more important than repairability. Ideally things don't break in the first place and don't need to be repaired.
Wow I am sold! This is what I will choose next time I/my friends/family need a non Mac laptop! I always thought it is overpriced and underperforming and this video changed my mind. this is impressive!
Sorry about the intro sting volume. The audio got into the wrong track somehow during the edit. Update: Thanks for the suggestion @Lüminism , I cut the intro.
I hope they decide to make one in the style of an older ThinkPad. I don't want thinness or lightness and need a trackpoint. Hopefully they will release a chassis aimed at that crowd.
I feel like the hardware related issues are definitely a big problem and might also be what makes it or breaks it for the company. now what they do after these issues arise is what will actually determine whether more people consider the brand or not. and rn I can't say for certain like I did half a year ago that I will be getting this as my next portable device.
I love the idea, also I love that they are working on supporting Linux. I never feel comfortable steering people toward Windows. So that’s a huge plus. The battery life though. I daily an M1 MacBook Pro 13. It’s too much of a downgrade for me to be able to suggest it to people unless they are adamant that they don’t want to have anything to do with Apple. Which is fair. Hopefully they address that. An ARM version/upgrade would be dope. When decent desktop grade SoCs will be readily available outside of the Apple ecosystem. That is.
I'm interested, because those faults can be resolved with part upgrades. Framework did, for example, produce upgraded hinges and a matte screen. With any other brands that's resolved with next year's model, maybe. Not this bunch. Fw sell the parts directly - upgrade that bit if you want to, much as you can with a desktop PC. Only foil is whether the brand survives. They're genuinely trying to generate an open ecosystem, there is a bit of 3rd party buy-in starting. Only time will tell.
I do not think buying a framework laptop is the best "sustainable" choice... They might be repairable, but they are incredibly expensive for what it is. An "ok" Framework laptop configured on their website is nearing high-end laptop territory while being average in performance... My personal "sustainable" choice is to buy refurbished used laptop from reputable brands & vendors: you can get a lot of power for cheap. for regular office work etc...I bought a used Lenovo X230 over 3 years ago for
UPDATE! Many of the issues I point out in this review have been fixed addressed by Framework. For updates be sure to check out my full Framework playlist. ruclips.net/p/PLwMvJ82pMgANOBK9ZL9rY4s2ExgLiYnYm&si=q18f-cBHd2vePJZF
I think it speaks to Framework's radically different approach to hardware that a "long term review" has such a different meaning when the product ecosystem is built for long-term support and reparability. If this was a black box laptop from any other manufacturer then six months of daily driving would have identified most, if not all, of the quirks and given an idea of whether or not the manufacturer was going to offer any more fixes... and that would be that. With Framework, firmware updates and hardware fixes keep trickling down through the range months after release, and as other people have pointed out, some issues can just be nullified with a part-swap. I'm not sure there are many other laptops where you can come back 18 months after your original "6 months later" review and find that the situation has improved :)
Framework systems aren't perfect, but I'm convinced they're doing good things, and seem to be improving all the time.
I agree with your conclusion at the beginning. If someone is looking for raw performance or battery life, they would probably go with something from a different company. But because of Framework's focus on repairability and sustainably, alot of people (myself included) have shown interest in the device, even if it's only to support this movement. Great video!
Voting with your money is one of the most important thing we can do for a more sustainable planet. Thats why I am buying framework!
i am the same way about the repairability of the laptop its going to be my next laptop
I do wonder if it would be possible to have battery extension slots. Basically like a power bank for phones.
Now that would be interesting to see.
@@pmester228 i know as long as its a usb c 60w+ it can charge a laptop
@@pmester228 im not sure you would get any meaningful increase in battery life with something that small tho
"Battery life is bad, about 6 hours"
Coming from a Dell laptop that, in three years, ate through 2 battery packs and even on a fresh one never delivered more than 3h, that's awesome to me.
It is relatively speaking, problematic, considering that competing laptops at the same price point can easily get 10 hrs or more.
@@blue4059 so why is the framework worse on battery life then
@@swift7169 because it's not optimized well
That may be true for you but what about someone coming form an older MacBook that still gets 8+ hours of battery life? That's why I compared it to current similarly spec'd laptops.
@@blue4059 So is it hardware or software optimization? Can one expect it will be better with updates?
So I have a Framework en route to me and my first reaction was "oh man the trackpad is crap" and started having buyers regret, until I realized I can just... swap it out if they provide better ones? That's what makes it remarkable - I have to unlearn all my consumer paranoia.
this will be the big revolution if framework *actually delivers* on new motherboards and other upgrades (like trackpad) that are compatible with their first gen laptop.
If they really manage to do this then hats off!
That's IF they provide an upgraded trackpad. Framework will likely struggle to stock all parts... or be able to engineer next generation laptops while keeping compatiblity with the old form factors.
That's if they stay in business at all. Bringing a laptop to market costs millions and this is a niche product at best. The average consumer is still going to buy whatever Amazon or their local big box store has. The average business man or grandma that checks her emails isn't worried about repairing their laptop.
thats a really interesting way of putting in, i think the term "consumer paranoia" sums it up well
@@EmergencyChannel It is true that we as a society have traditionally have done a crap job at educating consumers about what's really pro-consumer (and most countries have failed to create laws to match) - but there's an economic argument for "hey, swapping out a broken charge port when someone steps on your cable with this particular laptop is only $5 and 5 minutes, not a $100 repair for a week", both for end users and businesses.
i hope they succeed. the sheer number of IoT devices you could make out of Framework replacement parts is crazy
Refreshing to see someone talk about internet of things in it's ORIGINAL context. Too many cryptards have bastardized the terms web3 and IoT.
@@fatherWolt You are such a clown for calling people "cryptards."
@@akivaweil5066 found the nft clown
@@joonaskali2337 Nfts are not my jam
@@fatherWolt "cryptards" I love it. So accurate.
Having an engineer as a CEO is a huge + in my eyes.
Working for a company whose CEO is an engineer I can say that this is not always a good thing. The CEO should be a business leader. I would prefer a CEO know accounting and marketing instead of Maxwell's Equations.
@@davidr7304 All "business leaders" know how to do is hire overpaid consultants, layoff employees to boost value for shareholders, and take multimillion dollar bonuses. I'll an engineer who understands the value of R&D and long term reinvestment in the company as a CEO any day.
@@davidr7304 Two things can be true at the same time. I agree with @iamsuperflush that a CEO who has no idea about his/her company's products or how they are built/developed, usually does only the min-maxing, but not good product (or rather company direction) decisions. But of course, a business leader should also understand how to run a company. That's not always easy to balance, but it is doable.
@@iamsuperflush the CEO can be both ,A CEO should know about the product is selling but the CEO must absolutely need to be a business leader ,if not the company will go down , so yh you shouldn’t just put an engineer that doesn’t have business knowledge as a CEO
@@davidr7304 yes and you will get greedy companies like intel and apple
This being the first generation of the framework, I am not surprised there are teething issues. I agree with your conclusion wholeheartedly - I want to support the company because of their stance on issues that are important to me. I am not expecting perfection or anything, just yet.
Is there any rumors of a gen 2 of this coming out soon?
@@dirtbike662 Not sure if there will be a gen 2 per se, I would think it would be more of an expectation of upgraded motherboards and/or expansion to AMD
@@dirtbike662 12th gen intel released
@@wandew7057 ships August👍
This is a project for people who are just plain naive.
The company cynically uses the sentiment for self-repair, but in fact sells expensive laptops with poor parameters.
Cool part of this is that they have a user installable hinge and backplate upgrade, which solves your hinge issue. They have confirmed and ethernet expansion, and they are working on the power draw. Awesome to see that Framework is hearing the userbase and working on fixing it.
The thing is, framework should be supported not only to enable them to make better laptops, but also to force other companies to make better and more repairable laptops
Other companies already make better laptops. They are just not as repairable but they need no repairs anyways
@@eckeeyou couldn't be more wrong there bud. Take macbooks. They're basically impossible to repair, unless you're apple. They also get full of dust very quickly. You should check out louis rossman.
Laptops break very easily. My Samsung book2 pro died within 2 years. The CPU just cooked itself. And is apparently a very common issue with that line of laptops.
@@eckee unless the do need like any repair, and then you cooked.
If I had the means, I would support them. This is their first model. I see a bright future ahead for them, if others in the industry also appreciate their long term goal.
Going the DIY and i5 route (very very similar performance) you can get the whole system for just under $1000 which makes it an easier pill to swallow versus $1500, still not perfect but look forward to the future
The performance disadvantage of the i5 is small... IF you put two sticks of RAM in it. Tiger Lake loves dual channel memory; you take a 25% performance hit if you use only one module.
@ I would love to see actual comparisons of thw two in real world tests. I was considering getting the i7 with 64 gb of ram abut i might change that to i5 if it makes ssense.
@ Tbf all cpus work much better when all memory channels are used, otherwise you are leaving lots of memory bandwidth unused. This might not matter in certain applications, but it is clearly felt in a lot of others.
@ the generation means nothing, single channel ram is around a 25% hit across the board, including my 8th gen i7. literally half the ram speed.
I appreciate your transparency and honesty. I thought your review is very trustworthy. I purchased a framework back in December, but don’t use it all the time simply because I don’t have that level of workload at home. So I appreciate hearing your perspective as someone who has used it consistently for 6 months.
Good review. The fun part for me with this laptop is how I upgraded from a 2011 machine. So this is worlds ahead and most of the battery life or performance issues don't register for me because it is so much better than before.
How often are people replacing laptops? Because I'm just surprised at how tech youtubers obsess over certain factors which would be negligible for someone like me..
It's not about comparing it to old laptops It's about comparing it to the other comparable options you have when you are considering upgrading from your old laptop.
@@ElevatedSystems I appreciate it, I guess I am suggesting the pros of the framework being adaptable, repairable, upgradable, useable outside the chassis, and pro right to repair outweigh the tech differences since they seem trivial to me from my 2011 stance.
However, you are right, and my 60% luddite attitude biases me.
@@lunaumbra5179 I too will be coming from a 2011 machine, more specifically a T420. Nice machine but its really starting to show its age. as far as battery life is concerned, I am used to only having a few hours anyway so the framework would be a major improvement to me as well.
About 5 yrs. 8 with a real banger of a machine. I think 10+ is very rare. Laptops are, unfortunately, way more disposable because of issues with repairability and upgradeability, moreso the latter, since you can at least rma around the former. Unless you only ever really needed a device with the limited functionality of a Chromebook to begin with, its at that half-decade mark that not being able to freely do either will start to kick your ass and make the device unreliable or just plain annoyingly subpar for your workload.
@@FakeDadRealFriend Nope, business laptops last a hell of a long time. 10+ years is nothing for them. And a lot of people just need a basic laptop to check emails, and a 2nd gen core i5 should be adequate for that.
Fair review, I mainly look at it from a TCO total cost of ownership. This laptop is going to be usable longer than any laptop i've ever owned (cause I can just upgrade and replace stuff if needed)
Depends, cheap used is best unless you need more power
IF the company stays in business.
@@bentongarrett 2 years later, they're getting bigger, and innovating. I can't see them going under any time soon.
Good review! I’ve had mine for a couple months now (batch 7) and I enjoy it, but agree with your criticisms. I really hope we see future hardware upgrades (better trackpad, for example) hit the marketplace, as that could really set the framework apart from devices by other manufacturers.
The nice thing about the problem with the mousepad is, even if it is a hardwareproblem, you pop it out and put a fixed replacement in and you're off to the races.
I'm DEFINITELY INTERESTED a laptop that I can upgrade and repair just like my Desktop pc. What has always irritated me about laptops was their proprietary locked system of hardware. Great video 😊
Great job! More reviews should be like this. Detailed yet concise, fair and ballenced. Provide the positive and negative points and give the viewer the info to choose for themselves. Thanks for not giving us sponsored fluff.
The good thing about framework is that even its flaws are easily fixable, like if a better trackpad is released all we would need to do is to swap it, the same with better batteries, you dont need to buy complete new setup to have better and improved experience, much like pc you just swap a component, i wasn't expecting framework to nail everything from the start, but now is the time for them to truly shine, if framework get the component market to work right than it will start its rise to leadership.
Even then I don’t think framework will be even close in terms of performance to companies like Apple, who people mainly only buy products from because of the brand name, and how common it is.
They also launched at a time when parts shortages were at their worst. Hopefully, they can make up some ground in the next year!
this isn't essentially true
I don't see the framework laptop as a product made for the brand-aware apple crowd, the high demand gamer or the professional video editor, but for someone who wants easy availability to replacement parts and repair. Sacrificing some performance and battery life and gaining user serviceability. Which is a great thing in principle.
@@HappyBeezerStudios Most of the Apple laptop crowd would actually be better served with a $300 Chromebook from what I've seen of their usage patterns.
What's amazing to me, also having daily driven one for the last few months, is that it's far better than any other first-gen product I've ever seen in this space - even WITH all its teething issues. I'd much rather have this than anything else. Period. The fact that everything is swappable makes a lot of the issues you mentioned much more easily fixable than with any other laptop. The killer feature for me is the FOUR TB4 ports - more than I've seen on any other laptop, period, and it's not discussed nearly enough.
TB4 is just marketing. all they did was take the bottom out of the tb3 spec and call it tb4. its not better at all. and im pretty sure higher end macbooks have similar specs.
“Issues with features not working, bios and driver problems, component problems”
“Sensitivity has definitely gotten worse, the pad routinely doesn’t register single or double taps, multi gestures are often missed two fingers tap three fingers swipe, it’s hit or miss, even the right click area sometimes click but doesn’t register”
Auto-cpufreq
ruclips.net/video/B1iRxoyT4EA/видео.html
This seems about what I expected. When I can justify buying a laptop it will probably be from framework. I do wish smaller, more netbook-like laptops were more common in general, and if framework made one I would buy it in a heartbeat. Hopefully they'll be around for many more years!
The return of the subnotebook. Some 12-14'' laptops would probably hit the mark with super portability while still offering all the OS and software compatibility one is used to from bigger machines. Even with a cut in performance for longer battery life.
theres the 13 inch framework laptop now! suports amd cpu too for battery efficiency
If the company succeeded first 2-3 gens of laptops, they might be able to create even slimmer casings for replaceable parts and slimmer connectors.
This with ryzen 7000 series with rdna2 igpu would be insanely good. Given they improve the minor issues with the battery touch pad etc
I think if they used a cpu that wasn't intel battery life would improve quite a bit.
This is the exact configuration that I am waiting for. Because it will have the really good battery life and single thread performance that I need for my applications. And from what I heard, they may have rDNA three graphics instead especially on the Phoenix series which is the lower watt Apus
@@footsorebird0365 same
Curious that reviewers rarely mention the educational value of this product. Doing regular teardowns and rebuilds is a huge bonus for kids.
Thanks for your review! I've been running a Batch 6 machine since January and I am forming an opinion very similar to yours.
The more I use the Framework, the more I realize it's an average laptop from a performance standpoint. Battery life has been my greatest pain point. The hinges have been very similar to previous laptops I've owned and the trackpad has been fine.
Nevertheless, I risked freight forwarding a unit to my country due to the serviceability, longevity and value for money. My Framework build is still cheaper shipped compared to a getting a similarly spec'd machine locally.
Part of being an early adopter, but I'm still enjoying the ride!
I just wish they made a gaming focused laptop, like a second chassis, that could fit a dedicated gpu, and such things that appeal for gamers, keeping the modularity
Not that gaming laptops tend to be as much of a pain to repair/upgrade as non gaming machines, but still, would like to se a gaming framework
Edit: this aged like fine milk, they made it
Amen,comrade.
well not only that, but a lot of us want a 15" laptop with the associated full numpad keyboard, bigger screen, and potentially battery and/or GPU.
Framework 16 :)
@@poormansdreams2183yep. They just did.
Hope they can improve battery life with Alder lake. I'm really interested in owning a framework laptop.
If they get to use some amd 6000 mobile CPUs, they will get some very power efficient systems and with fairly good integrated graphics
I'm excited that by the time im ready (able) to buy one, it'll be a much more mature product.
AMD Ryzen 6000. Enough said.
i love seeing long term reviews like this that REALLY get into the aspects of using a device every day, and this one was brilliant. truly awesome content man, i enjoyed watching it
I think most of what you show does give me hope for the product. It is the first revision of a new product from a new company and if they release upgrade boards hopefully using ryzen and new versions altogether addressing the problems I'm still optimistic that they will get it right
Great review! Although I am excited about the potential of this company, I had yet to see a "real" review of this product. Thanks for being honest about this. I am hoping they fix some of the pain points, ie battery life in a future model somehow. Thanks!
It's really nice that for all of your complaints in this video, they have fixes/or new parts to address these areas. They have an upgradeable new screen hinge that is much firmer, a matte/matted screen replacement (instead of being stuck with a glossy one), they have an optional speaker system that's much louder (if that's what you wanted), they have an Ethernet adapter that slots right in like any of the other square slot port adapters, they have a larger capacity battery (not a huge difference in size since physical sizes kind of limits max watt hour capacity for the time being until battery technology gets better and evolves, but it is larger in capacity), they have replaceable touch pads, keyboards, etc. It's a really cool design and something I have been wanting a company to come out and make since 2001. Oh yeah! And they have an AMD option motherboard too that you can easily swap out!
It is pretty crazy that battery life has got to the point where you can do a full work-day. I remember when 2 hours was amazing battery life.
I really want to support framework, flaws and all, conceptually I can accept a higher price for something that is meant to be repaired rather than replaced coming from a new company with an uncertain future in the market. But in reality I'm worried that for the price I'll be left wanting something a little more capable as I want to take on more graphically intensive work, and don't have the money to have a separate modern desktop pc and a non potato non falling apart laptop. Tough position to be in, honestly considering simply upgrading to a steam deck and living with the slight inconveniences the formfactor presents when trying to treat it like a laptop.
Hopefully Framework will have another laptop, with dedicated GPU, soon. Though I have no idea if that soon will be Q3 2022 or 2023 or even later. Designing a motherboard + chassis like this is quite the challenge.
I think the next iteration of this will be a lot better. After all this is version 1.0. I’d like to see options for motherboard with dedicated graphics (3050/60 at most) for the casual gamer/editor . I don’t expect this to ever be a hardcore gaming machine or at least not in the near future.
I'd say, a Framework laptop with even an Nvidia 2060 would be awesome, though a 3060 would be even better. :) While I don't game or do computer art, it would be beneficial to gamers and artists alike. Blender models could be rendered well. Also, some scientists may use GPU computing for running simulations.
@@thatguyalex2835 issue is generations 2060 is the same as a 3060 in terms of power. 3050 wouldbe great
Please keep us posted on your experience with the framework laptop and their costumer service in the future.
I feel like most (if not all) of the issues (except battery life) can be fixed by the nature of the company, in offering replacement parts. Do you know if there is chattering on the fw forums about this? I am very curious if this will happen in the future. I do agree with you and wish they'd rolled out more io swap options over the last months, thatd have been great marketing for them.
Personally I'm still on the fence, mainly for reasons of price, and my current laptop is slowly becoming unusable, but is still not there yet. Basically im not in a rush and dont like spending money haha. I'd also love to go fully open source and hope they will bring amd to their mainboards in the future.
Maybe ill buy myself a graduation gift in a couple months✌️:)
Great update! Hopefully they add a AMD version and improved battery life and trackpad and we'll be good to go!
Great review. I've been experiencing similar issues with registering mouse clicks on the touchpad. I bought it knowing it was a beta (batch 3), but the nice thing is that nearly all of the issues can literally be fixed in the future without buying a brand new machine. I'm still hopeful somebody will eventually figure out how to build and mount a Thinkpad-style keyboard (with trackpoint) to the existing chassis.
I own a framework and this review is pretty spot on. The sleep and battery stuff getting better would be killlerrrrrrrrrr, it'd be perfect!
Great review man. Really nice work, you sound like a very honest man and pointed to all the issues. You also made a great case for why we should support the product, even tho its far from perfect. Honestly I think this will be my next laptop.
Just heard about Framework laptops online yesterday and was looking for reviews this morning. While watching this one I instantly fell in love with your review style and really respect your unbiased analysis.
This was a really excellent video, more people need to do high quality long terms reviews like this for consumer tech! This gives so much useful information for both potential customers and Framework.
This framework thing has just recently gotten my attention and I have the feeling that pretty much all the downsides have been addressed in the meantime in one or the other form. I'm hyped about this laptop
I love the concept of the Framwork Laptop. If I needed a portable machine, it's probably one I would strongly consider. I would like to see some better battery life - though 6 hours is in the "okay" category, and I would love to see more screen options, including one with P3 color gamut coverage for designers. As much as I hate Apple's choice to solder everything to the board, one thing they really have going for them is their wide color gamut, high resolution screens which are beautiful for serious designers.
It speaks plenty that many of your upgrades were adressed by framework. Stiffer hinges, matt screen, bigger battery...
Fair review and matches my experience. I don't have a problem with the trackpad or hinge so far. Battery life matches your testing, sometimes better, sometimes worse -- depends on workload. I consider this more of a "mid-term" review though. The principle of upgrade "ability" will be the key to a long term review IMO. Can I upgrade to fix those things that could be better? That is the key for me. Thanks for your review!
This video has such great production quality. This channel needs more subs!
You're different and real compared to other channels. 👍 Love these later comparisons. Used to be the way reviews worked back when we weren't spoiled by new hardware every month. Respect for this video and all the work you put into it, thank you! 🙏
This video was recommended to me after watching another video from a month ago that began with a hinge upgrade. I'm grateful for honest reviews and honest engineers with willingness to use feedback constructively.
I almost got a Frame-book recently while I was in the market for a new laptop. There were really only two deal-breakers:
1) No other screen options. I really need a 17in screen to be happy
2) No discrete GPU options nor a way to do it over some sort of exposed PCIe
I realize that those options are outside the kind of laptop Framework wants to make, but I'm just saying, if they were to have another laptop build option that falls closer to a gaming laptop with a larger chassis, place for a GPU, and a bigger screen at the cost of higher price and battery life, I would've certainly bought it instead.
I bring that up bc I was willing to pay a lot of money for the laptop I did get, so I feel like that might be a missed opportunity for Framework as theoretically adding an exposed PCIe slot and a bigger screen to their existing setup shouldn't be that difficult, but idk maybe it is; I'm not Framework.
What you gotta realise is, this is a young company, they are still proving themselves to the consumers. They have a small team of people, itd be a waste to split that capacity over making 2 different laptops. Better to make one laptop now that is good for mass market, rather than 2 that might be less good and take longer. This way they get their name out into the world. And down the road, after seeing some growth as a company they could always focus on making a gaming laptop.
You have thunderbold 4 in there. You can use an external gpu that will have more raw power than a discrete gpu. Of course you wouldn’t carry a gpu everywhere, but for me I wouldn’t need one most of the time so at home I could game or do some heavy workload.
@@gregorypaul0 Unfortunately, from what I saw from others who tested it, the performance with the raw gpu wasn't good enough
Coming here a year late, I love to see that most of the issues have been addressed. Battery life still seems to be a problem, but there are upgraded replacement hinges, track pads, and speakers.
A great and balanced review. Thanks! Pity about the battery. It's the deal breaker for me
The more I heard about this the more I hope they release a version 2.0 with most of the issues fixed but keep compatibility with the current one. The touchpad is so big and it would be even better if it doesn’t need to be replaced because of the issues u mentioned and the fixed one could be for sale instead of the original to improve the laptop you already own. I just hope they make a change to the name so it’s more apparent that a change was made unlike other companies that do silent changes
Just ordered mine, and my biggest worry is still the battery life. I really want to love this laptop, and looking at measurements I think the battery should theoretically fit into my workflow, but just barely. If not I’m returning and getting a used x1 carbon, but will pray for framework as I really want them to succeed.
You could try looking into undervolting your laptop, depending on the cpu and gpu it could give you an extra 10 - 20 minutes of battery life.
Love the succinct point at the start.
FYI they now have Ethernet modules and AMD options
This is a company that cares about it's customers, and the environment making things more serviceable and also a very open attitude I hope someday I can get a framework not just cause it's a great laptop but also because I want to support things like this
Probably the most balanced review I've seen on this device so far, earned yourself a sub. :-)
Still no Ethernet or 5g expansion cards, so it's a non starter for a lot of people. It also really needs a matte screen option.
Probably the company hit hard by the chip shortage
Saw your 1 week review, was one of the first tech-y videos I watched after emerging from BMT. I've since finished tech school, gone operational, and am in the market for a replacement for my 9 year old Dell Precision... lo and behold this video gets released. Thanks for the honest review! Definitely keeping Framework in mind when the time comes.
Framework Laptop does have several flaws but is otherwise very impressive for a 1st time product from a start up company I must say. One major flaw I have is the weak speakers and the flaw where the left speaker creates an annoying buzzing reverberation within the laptop chassis that makes me go into the volume settings and bring the left speaker output down to 50%.
I've just read the announcement from Ubuntu that Framework is now fully functional without tinkering.
The ports are not technically Thunderbolt 4; they do not have Intel's stamp of approval, although it seems they're working on getting it
I explain this in detail in my initial review.
@@ElevatedSystems I saw that and I appreciate your explanation. However some of the viewers haven't seen it, so IMO it's not ideal to call it TB4 without giving that explanation in the same video, it's possible it might confuse or misdirect viewers.
Who would have thought the algorithm will recommend me this incredible channel!! Awesome review man, now going to the keyboard size computer video😆
Since it can be charge via USB Type C, I would usually have a battery pack that could charge it when I'm on the go. The only thing that held me back from it is the lack of dedicated graphics. If they can get something like an A370M into it, I would be interested in it. Very nice company, very much hoping they can expand further.
They have an AMD RX 7700S for dedicated graphics.
@@Rokabur Yeah, I've preordered already. The 7700S will be a big improvement from the A370M I have now.
As I see it, The framework is just my investment into both needing a laptop for my work (College student who does Game Design and traditional programming assignments) while also fulfilling my lust for building a PC exactly how I want it. Sure it may have it's flaws, but to know that when I want better performance or god forbid I break something in the laptop through water damage, I don't have to shell out another 2-3k for a maxed out kit, but just enough for whatever part(s) need replacing.
I hope framework improves the issues shown, but the company itself is so easy to root for that the flaws of their first product feel very passable to me personally. that can change real quick if they don't answer some of these issues in the nearish future (when they are at where they wanted to be in the first place storefront wise is my cutoff), but I'm willing to give them ample time to address and fix them if it means I get to support them long term happily.
The 12th Gen Intel chips for ultra portables are looking very promising. Hopefully they will show promising results with regards to battery life.
I subbed, the explanation and visuals are stunning
Thanks and welcome.
Would love to see a gaming laptop from them, I think that could be very successful as PC gamers are generally quite familiar with upgrading individual components of their rig progressively, and if they can make a chassis that will allow for discrete GPU upgradeability as well (I have a feeling the different cooling requirements would be the harder part here) I think they would have a big market to pull from.
I think the GPUs are going to be a pipe dream because the cooling, as you say, is going to be impossible for anything more powerful than something like a 3050 due to the form factor. External GPU enclosures are likely the best you're going to get with this one.
@@JinghisKhan Well I would expect a gaming laptop to have a bigger form factor than their current one, basically all current gaming laptops are in fact larger than the Framework, so would make sense for them to go with a similar form factor; I wasn't expecting them to cram that into the current machine.
I'm loving the idea, but I really want a 17 inch version, preferably 4k, oled, touch screen would be great too, and the option of hooking up an external graphics card but not necessary. I want that all in one portable option that I can use to truly do everything I would at home and the office but on the go with the ability to upgrade things down the road and easily repair broken parts.
If framework gets ryzen 6000 CPUs I'll definitely be getting one.
how about a ryzen 7000 one?
I don't have my hands on a framework to test this, but there's a few options in the BIOS such as "enable TCSS wake from sleep" and PCIe power savings in the windows power plan. You should *definitely* take a look at those and see if those reduce the power usage of the dongles at the very least.
I found these settings initially because I noticed that when my eGPU was plugged in, I literally could not get my computer to go to sleep fully. It would remain on and more importantly, generating heat as long as the eGPU was plugged in.
Disabling the TCSS wake from sleep and reducing PCIe power savings to max power savings fixed this.
I’m still waiting on the AMD option for the framework. I’m definitely interested in getting one, but battery life is more important to me on laptop so not interested in an intel chip.
The new 6000 amd chips aren't going to be much better...
Amd is on short supply, they just can't make more chip than intel because DUH
Love the review. I'm excited to see how Framework continues to move forward.
Still a great looking system now that some kinks are apparent.
I agree with the trackpad issue, so I typically use a USB vertical Anker mouse instead. Additionally, I get feedback (high pitch tone, and a clicking noise) while using headphones plugged in. Its not the headphones themselves, since they work fine with my desktop computer.
4:59 Things you can only do in America: Fit a full size laptop under the armrest of your car :D
They have even bigger ones here 💀
It's not a car. It's a full size truck.
It's sold in: United States, Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Colombia, Argentina, Chile, Paraguay, Angola, Peru, Europe, and the Middle East.
So no... not just America.
@@tim3172 oh my god mr obvious, you really are a savior!
I appreciate the candid review and am glad RUclips recommended this video. I'm confident the trackpad is covered under warranty, so hopefully, the issue gets resolved with a hardware revision.
Bit late, but I have a MacBook Air M1, 8gb ram and 256gb ssd, and my dad has the framework with 32gb ram and a 1tb ssd. They both ended up being around the same price.
In terms of sheer user experience the MacBook feels a lot more premium. The MacBook is also more portable, has a significantly better battery life, and has similar performance to the framework. So overall, the MacBook is definitely a nicer laptop to use, but you sacrifice upgradibilty and freedom. In the long run, the framework will probably last longer, so you have to choose which laptop based on upgradibilty and longevity or performance and user experience.
I have the base MBA, mainly as the Framework wasn't available where I am when I needed my replacement (the Mac Mini also didn't work properly with the monitor I had bought recently). For my use case I'm kind of regretting getting it, mostly as it tends to have RAM issues, whereas with the Framework that would have been easy to fix. The repairability is also a worry for me, knowing my luck (the previous laptop had something spilled on it!)
Have to say though, the portability of the Air is pretty amazing, don't think it can be beaten with comparable performance. It's also nice to have a laptop that doesn't need to live connected to a power supply...
I still have a mid 2012 MBP with its original battery from new, so its around 10 years old, put in 16GB RAM and an SSD, its very quick and is still in use now, Apple products are solid. From what I've seen in this video, looks like framework has some issues in the QC department, trackpads shouldn't be failing early on in the laptop's life.
That said I hope this gains traction and they sort out the issues, could be onto something with the modular ports at least.
Although I'm not in the market for another laptop as I have an M1 MBA as my daily driver.
The matt screen, sound, track pad, hinges are fixed in the current version. The battery has also been up-sized.
While not Linux, I'd be curious how something like FreeBSD or GhostBSD works on that laptop. If the support is there or if it falls flat.
I have GhostBSD on my list for testing as it seems to be one of the most beginner friendly and regularly updated BSD distros.
I'm planning on buying the framework 16 when it comes out (after reviews, I don't want to preorder) but this is actually a useful review for things to look out for, to see if they've improved on what was suboptimal in the framework 13. Thank you
For a first gen it seems solid. But I still think it's too expensive for what it's worth :/
Pros:
- It’s the most well-built laptop I’ve ever had. It just feels solid when compared to the plastic-shelled one I was coming from.
- expandability and modularity is great. I just built an eGPU setup that compliments the laptop and all goes in a small backpack.
- best screen (in terms of resolution) I own.
Cons:
- super loose hinge. was a passenger in a car with poor suspension on Michigan roads and had to constantly readjust the screen.
- I fell victim to the odd failure to post big in the bios after not using it for a few weeks and accidentally nuked my boot drive by trying to diagnose it.
- I would pay for a touchscreen replacement/new enclosure for old screen to make a portable display but nothing has surfaced yet so I cannot help out more.
I believe they came out with a hinge replacement recently, it's amazing how repairable this laptop is
How’s it faring now? Still use the laptop?
Love the fact that if you upgrade the entire board you can get an enclosure to put the old one into ad use as a desktop , what a brilliant idea
Great review! I agree that the battery life leaves much to be desired. I work from home so don't run into this issue too much, but I am hoping that future firmware updates plus Framework-specific Linux improvements (I run Garuda right now) will improve this. That said, if it never improves, I'm still happy I bought it and am very excited for the first time that I am able to forgo buying a new laptop by simply upgrading this one.
Can I ask where you got your wallpaper? I looked for it online but didn't find it (although I did find a lot of other cool Framework wallpapers).
I made the wallpaper in Photoshop.
@@ElevatedSystems could you give us the wallpaper? it's really nice
@@lucadiprima3821 I don't own the original files but if you google image search "colorful mountains wallpaper" you'll find it. I just overplayed the framework logo.
To be fair, if you're really concerned with battery life you should have a high amp external battery pack, that can charge you on the go. I agree that battery life is important, but my personal threshold is 4 hours, if you make that benchmark you're good to go! Otherwise, all good points, and I think I'll grab a Framework for my next computer, hopefully around xmas.
I love your style of review and your conclusions. I do hope that Framework can continue to succeed as a company as I hope to buy my next laptop from them when I decide to move from my current Dell XPS 15. As you mentioned, there will be issues with a first gen product such as this. However, I have faith that they can and will iron out these issues in future revisions. In particular, a version with a dedicated GPU
Excellent video man. Battery life is really important to I would say all people looking to buy a laptop, and I sincerely hope they improve it in the next gen! Cheers
Problems with the Framework laptop:
1) Repairability and modularity are NOT selling points for the vast majority of people because the vast majority of people will not take advantage of it.
2) Any laptop like this NEEDS to not only be equivalent in quality, but superior because you have to overcome brand recognition. Most people will buy the Apples or Dells or Asuses because they're a recognizable brand and people will go for the familiar.
3) Port modules will NOT be supported long term because most people will not utilize this feature thus most will not buy any modules, thus removing any financial incentive for Framework to release new modules.
4) I have my doubts as to the viability of long term support for upgradeability of this laptop. Other, larger companies of tried this and have failed.
If you separate your emotional desire for products like these to succeed (which I had to do as well, by the by) you'll be forced to agree with me. Plenty of companies have tried modularity in electronic devices and they have all failed.
What companies exatcly tried this? . I only know of one. Fairphone and they are still around plus its not exatcly a laptop manufacturer.
@@KrolPawi There were also some modular Dell Alienware laptops around for example. And the point isn't that these companies aren't around anymore, the point is that they stopped providing upgrades, compatible expansions and so on. For example the first Fairphone models advertised as upgradable similar to the Framework laptop, but instead of releasing upgrades, they released a new Fairphone model with incompatible parts.
The point is that's very hard to create compatible upgrades and that also applies to the laptop market. Framework can of course design a Ryzen mainboard, but very likely there will be problems having the same connectors, having the same layout, having the same cooling requirements. Maybe they can make the Ryzen mainboard smaller and then they're having to ask themselves if it makes sense to waste physical space and development time to preserve compatibility or if they should create a new case design that has more room for a larger battery or whatever.
It's just a financial decision they have to make, and only a small part of users are probably actually interested in upgrading their mainboard only. Maybe in 3 or 4 years when the laptop gets slightly old, the case will have scratches, users might also want to have a matte screen that could've be released then, the battery might have degraded, and instead of upgrading single parts, it might just be more efficient to simply buy the new model and sell the old one on ebay.
To me the main selling point of Framework would be build quality, robustness and repairablity. (And of course all the standard features like performance, portability and so on). Having potentially upgraded parts available somewhere in the future with nothing confirmed at this point isn't a selling point to me. And robustness is more important than repairability. Ideally things don't break in the first place and don't need to be repaired.
Wow I am sold! This is what I will choose next time I/my friends/family need a non Mac laptop! I always thought it is overpriced and underperforming and this video changed my mind. this is impressive!
Sorry about the intro sting volume. The audio got into the wrong track somehow during the edit. Update: Thanks for the suggestion @Lüminism , I cut the intro.
Aren't you the actor in the movie Triple Frontier?
you should probably just delete it entirely thru youtube studio to avoid killing people's ears hahah
@@luminism Brilliant! Done.
I hope they decide to make one in the style of an older ThinkPad. I don't want thinness or lightness and need a trackpoint. Hopefully they will release a chassis aimed at that crowd.
I feel like the hardware related issues are definitely a big problem and might also be what makes it or breaks it for the company. now what they do after these issues arise is what will actually determine whether more people consider the brand or not. and rn I can't say for certain like I did half a year ago that I will be getting this as my next portable device.
Thank you for the review. Waiting for 16 and its review too :D
I love the idea, also I love that they are working on supporting Linux. I never feel comfortable steering people toward Windows. So that’s a huge plus. The battery life though. I daily an M1 MacBook Pro 13. It’s too much of a downgrade for me to be able to suggest it to people unless they are adamant that they don’t want to have anything to do with Apple. Which is fair. Hopefully they address that. An ARM version/upgrade would be dope. When decent desktop grade SoCs will be readily available outside of the Apple ecosystem. That is.
There is no question, this is my next laptop. Thanks for the review.
Just say it, linux is not laptop friendly
I'm interested, because those faults can be resolved with part upgrades. Framework did, for example, produce upgraded hinges and a matte screen.
With any other brands that's resolved with next year's model, maybe. Not this bunch. Fw sell the parts directly - upgrade that bit if you want to, much as you can with a desktop PC.
Only foil is whether the brand survives. They're genuinely trying to generate an open ecosystem, there is a bit of 3rd party buy-in starting. Only time will tell.
Well, about the "springy hinges" - there are now new hinges that require more pressure to open. You can replace them for little money.
I'm absolutely picking one of these up once they release their dedicated GPU model.
same!
I do not think buying a framework laptop is the best "sustainable" choice... They might be repairable, but they are incredibly expensive for what it is.
An "ok" Framework laptop configured on their website is nearing high-end laptop territory while being average in performance...
My personal "sustainable" choice is to buy refurbished used laptop from reputable brands & vendors: you can get a lot of power for cheap. for regular office work etc...I bought a used Lenovo X230 over 3 years ago for