I actually would not. IMVHO currently Framework could not deliver the reliability which is key for being a "server", even a small home one, so this "shift" from "laptop" to "home appliance/server" might be the not correct way to transform the mainboard (but totally into channel/content flow). IMVHO is closest use is for a desktop replacement.
My wife has gone through several laptops and they've all broken in stupid ways (trackpad buttons, hinges, etc.). We bought her a Framework both to avoid the hassle of trying to hunt down parts that would be a nightmare to replace anyway, but also to support what Framework is doing. Yes, we could have gotten something cheaper, but I think in the long run it's worth it.
Sounds like my reason for getting one. I kept buying around the $500 mark, previous years clearance models. Performance-wise they were fine, but they tended to cook their batteries a bit (thin and lights do that if not _well_ designed), and the plastic and often absurdly badly designed pieces (hinges and what not) end up breaking around 18 months in. To be clear, I put the laptops through their paces. Heavy thermal loads, using them on the go, bouncing around in vehicles, just the nature of the work I do. Only had the framework a few weeks, but so far it is more robust than even the $1100 laptops I've had hands on. Of course, _those_ had a discrete gpu.
I always get frustrated by people completely misunderstanding the point of these laptops. Yes, they're initially more expensive than others (the company is also small, which adds up to the price), but the idea is that you'll never have to buy a new laptop again. You can just replace and upgrade parts as you need them without paying around $1k for a whole new system If you only care about the price, buy a second hand thinkpad or something like that. But you'll still need to buy a whole new computer when you want to upgrade
Also people would argue that for the cost of motherboard replacement you could get a new laptop. While that is true you would have to compromise on many things like worse display, less ports , soldered ram and stuff.
@@edwardfletcher7790 personally i don't think so. Yes, it's way easier and cheaper (most of the times... possible while others are not) to repair, but it's less solid for impacts and... still way more expensive (at buy) than have 2-3 used "business" laptops that could act as cold spare with a fast data restore. In harsh work environment, currently rugged laptops are still most likely the preferred choice for... impact resistance for starters, IP protection subsequently.
The torx screws are controversial but I really like the decision to go with them. Torx is much, much harder to strip than philips and a laptop with all those tiny screws stripped isn't really repair friendly anymore. Ask me how I know.
I've had a Framework 13 for a few years now. Originally an Intel 11th gen from the sale when 12th gen was announced, upgraded the mainboard to AMD last fall. Switching to AMD gave a big boost to battery life, and my 11th gen board is in a Coolermaster case running docker containers.
@@betag24cn If Intel were power efficient, assuming that considers both heat and battery life, then no they are definitely not.. The whole reason companies like Apple even decided to move away from Intel is the same reason they moved away from PowerPC. Their laptops were running too hot and had poor battery performance.
@@betag24cn The only place where Intel is more power-efficient is in desktop CPU (not APU) idle power. All other metrics are on AMD's side and it's not even a competition.
@@HardwareHaven I run Mint on my AMD 13 Framework, and installing fprintd is pretty easy to set up (just don't forget to use space bar when setting up PAM to enable the fingerprint scanner!). There's a bug with the login (well, not a bug, but it doesn't work, something a more knowledgeable Linux user could explain about gnome keychain etc), so you either wait for the 10 second timeout or modify common-auth to circumvent the fingerprint scan during the login screen. The brightness buttons may depend on the kernel you're using? Depending on what Mint verion you're on, it may be using an older kernel. I think at Mint 22 they're on 6.8 which seems to work really well out of the box for me (just did a fresh install recently). Great video, by the way! :)
With an unsupported distribution you are playing russian roulette with the AMD drivers. I have had months of stable experience and then an update would break sleep mode or crash the graphics drivers.
Not a fan of laptops, but very much a fan of being able to easily service, modify, and repair the electronic items that I buy. Hopefully Framework becomes popular enough for the prices to come down, and for other manufacturers to take notice.
clicked on this video right away - im an urban planning student thinking about a framework for my sophomore year, and this video was very informative! you talked about a lot of important things without sugarcoating some of the unavoidable downsides. I really appreciate this video, and I would love to see a home server follow-up.
@@MateoThePro it's not 1300 pounds tho... i'm currently typing this on my FW 13 I got for like 1100 USD with 16gb ram & 1tb of storage and you can go even cheaper then that
People forget how wild this company's story is. They're a laptop manufacturer that built a new board from the ground up (with help from hardware partners, obviously) and sold a consumer ready laptop only a year after they launched as a company. Most companies take two years just to do that with rebadged systems, forget about designing it themselves. It is an incredible technical and business feat.
@@Metalrasputian 100%, but no one is perfect, and no one expects them to be. The problem is that they've done such a good job that people forget Framework is new and needs time to perfect this stuff - as opposed to big box companies who have all had their chance and failed time after time.
In country like India, I am not sure if framework will able to break even, as laptops are an expensive to a extent. But they may be successful in some market here, I loved the concept of framework but it's too expensive for us
i like that you use the word expensea laptop is not a investment, is a expense, you convert that expense into a income woth your work, but that money expended there, is gone people sometimes complain about such investments, no investments there, wisfom there is what matters, once you understand that, all the money you use on such things will not mess up your budget, and things will be better in general
A cheap person can still buy expensive products if they think long term. You can buy several cheap pair of shoes over a period of a few years or 1 good one that will last longer and end up saving in the long run because it doesn't break as fast.
I don't need a laptop (yet) but when I do I'm very tempted to buy a framework. I'm going to share this with some friends to spread the word. Thanks for this honest breakdown!
In regards to your sticker issue, you can get some clear contact paper or adhesive laminating roll at an office supply store and put that on the lid of your laptop and then put stickers on it. My coworkers do that with their company laptops. When its time to trade the laptop in for an upgraded one you pull the contact paper off and it's a clean lid.
Thank you so much for this 👍 Saw some yt videos about Framework laptops (mostly the 16" one), but it seems ppl are doing a video on day one and that's it. I really appreciate that you did a long-time review so we can see how it's holding up after the initial "new shiny toy" phase.
I must say that I have not had quite the same experience with my framework, at least since I sold my 12th Gen Intel mainboard and upgraded to the AMD one. I went with the Ryzen 5 7640u and upgraded the battery to the 61Wh at the same time, and my laptop gets 10-14 hours of battery life on a normal day of programming, browsing the internet, and listening to music. I'm also using NixOS on Gnome with powertop and ppd running, and usually
Regarding the stickers on the case, my biggest win that I see with the framework is that once the case is full of stickers and where I want to put more on but cannot bring myself to put new ones on old ones I can just buy a new cover. I even had an idea that I can then eventually use old covers as wall art! I often get stickers from conferences or friends that are one-off's so losing these has been a big reason why i don't stick them on laptops anymore. food for thought.
Looks like Framework has finally offered what I've always wanted: A laptop that can have a 10+ year lifespan (with upgrades to keep it current)! I've always hated having to replace a laptop because it's now too slow to be usable. Especially having to re-install all the apps and settings!
@@AninoNiKugi true, but a 10 year old laptop delivered with Windows 7 or 8 will struggle badly with Window 10 or 11, even with an SSD. I usually convert them to Linux to make them actually useful.
@@billmiller4800 Well it obviously depends on the task you perform but with an SSD and at least 8GB of RAM, it'll be enough for basic tasks. My father still uses my 12 year old PC 😄 I wish it's easy to move them to Linux 😅
Using old Thinkpad T520, Core i5 2nd gen - 8 gigs of RAM, upgraded to SSD instead of DVD/RW (same slot) + classical HDD, integrated graphics GMA 3000 (11 years old), for 90 percent of people who are not gaming - and casually browsing web, consuming content and such more then enough. Drop some Linux on it, and watch it fly. Windows 10 works without problem, 11 will never go into my house with all this privacy AI crap and Copilot pushed down our throats. We need to stop buying stuff every year (mobile phones included) - nature will say thank you - less waste generated. Finally it is time to change economic model from planned obsolence to something better. If you cannot employ people without producing 10 iterations of the same shit in 2 years (all tech companies and manufacturers), and selling every incremental improvement then something is seriously wrong with present economic model...
I pre-ordered a Framework 16 back when they first announced it, first time I've ever pre-ordered anything. Not disappointed. I love this thing. I'm a sysadmin/IT manager, so being able to swap in an ethernet port to troubleshoot a switch, then a half hour later swap that out for an HDMI so I can give a presentation makes life so much easier. Granted I've only been using this laptop for about 6 months, but at this point I'm pretty confident that it is the last laptop I ever buy. BTW, the FW16 mainboard has dual M.2 slots.
I’m desperate to get a framework laptop as I just love what they’re doing and wanna support it. Couldn’t afford it last time I got a laptop but one day hopefully I can :) Love the vid. Would love to see you make a NAS from the mother board to see if it was a good choose just to buy a motherboard of their site and use it for a NAS lol ❤
Bro Summer Moon coffee slaps. Also, I have very similar thoughts on my Framework as well. It's nice knowing its a laptop built to last, but that price is tough to swallow initially.
I think the biggest deal with the Framework laptop is it's designed for the long term. If you're an ultra high end user and upgrade laptops every 2 years this probably isn't for you. But for the average to tech heavy user, this is AWESOME. Not many laptops compare well to Macs battery life. (Except my old two battery T480 👍😁) Do you get better battery life than Windows under a light Debian Linux install with XFCE desktop ?
it's defenitly expensive but you ccan get a FW 13 for around 1k by buying your own charger, RAM, & Storage. Also they have refurbished (factory seconds) models for as low as $500
Depends what you consider comparable? Sub-$500 systems are rarely worth getting in my experience. They break down often, are slow to begin with let alone in a couple years, and offer worse keyboard/trackpad/monitor and build quality.
I really wanted to buy one but my current laptop is not that old (12th gen Intel) and it feels like it goes against the ethos of reducing waste by repairing for me to just upgrade early. Will definitely buy next time i am in need
Do with this information what you will, but if your Lenovo has a load of storage (and if it don't, you could just get a bigger drive, either internal or external, and) you could set it up as kind-of a backup/NAS, which is what I've done with my desktop. I'm not saying like full-on backups and storage and install TrueNAS, just keep it useable as a regular PC but also act as a NAS, if that makes sense. I've left my desktop with Windows and all of my games and stuff, installed Syncthing to sync files between my laptop and desktop from anywhere, installed Free File Sync for backing up files on my desktop to one of its drives periodically, and installed Parsec for remoting into it, and everything works great for me that way. Now it's like my own (very overpowered) NAS, that I can also play all of my games on, too. Maybe you could do something like this whenever you upgrade :)
I'd like to see you put an ARM main board into it. That should improve battery life significantly. You might also be able to fit it with a more efficient display, perhaps with a switchable low power mode, again improving battery life without compromising on brightness.
Opening a laptop cannot void the warranty in the US. I'm amazed at how many people think the warranty sticker matters in the US. That hasn't been the case for like 50 years.
Like the idea of this laptop but tbh you can get so much more for your money and still be fairly easy to repair with a ThinkPad, I got a 2018 ThinkPad A285 with Ryzen 5 2500U, 16GB RAM & NVMe 256GB for just £160/$200 refurbished but in excellent condition earlier this year and it's so easy to repair/upgrade.
Used market will get worse with time as less serviceable models start to enter it. Think less about today and more about your next purchase in 5 years. If Framework is well-established by that point, then you'll likely be saying the same thing about buying a used Framework. That's the dream.
I personally have a amd 7640u framework laptop, it is truly what it seems a sturdy, yet light laptop that has great repairability, and yes I love this laptop, it has served me well and i do plan if i were to get another laptop it be a framework I would recommend this laptop, if you have the means but it and believe in the company's mission, to buy yourself a framework Ps. Its also a very unique laptop to show off, something cooler than a gaming laptop I will try to reply and answer any questions in the replies
The main issues with framework is the price, but when you consider is not going fist to fist with EVERY market, but only with those pricey one like HP Firefly, Dell XPS, Surfaces or other premium laptops that main goal is to be slim. The truth is that Framework is not for everyone and that fact we need to accept, even if we love the idea, when it comes to buying laptop for writing docs, or using browser, we gonna look at used thinkpads or new chromebooks, but when we need premium laptop, Framework look as a good option because when it comes to upgrading it, its gonna cost much less than new one. The another fact about framework is... there is no one standing behind you with heavy object to stop you with putting framework motherboard inside other laptop case, so when you have old t480 that is not enough, little tinkering and you got framework upgradebility in your old laptop :D
Bought my wife a Framework after she kept breaking laptops that I bought her and it's been wonderful. She hasn't broken anything in the year she's had it but it's awesome that I could just replace the part that breaks. I then bought myself a Ryzen laptop for school and love it
I'm a proud owner of a 13th gen framework 13 myself and have been for about a year and I think some of your power issues are windows and your temperature issues are legitimately a bad unit in terms of the thermal paste. I have the lowest skew of Intel CPU and I don't think I've ever seen a package temperature above about 70 maybe 80 when I'm running VMs My battery life certainly could use some improvement and a lot of that is probably that I'm also on the 55 watt battery but Fedora usually sees me getting about six hours of normal use and maybe four if I start running multiple virtual machines. I do have reports that the new screen helps a lot with the text blurriness. I personally have one on order. I've overall been very happy with my purchase, and like you, my Framework 13 is not my primary device. It is a companion computer to my much more powerful desktop. I don't know that any of the Intel SKUs would be able to handle what I do at my desktop on a framework, or really any laptop in the space for that matter. If I was going to do this purchase all over again, I would probably be buying an AMD framework, even knowing the Wi-Fi issues that the MediaTek chips have. I actually ran into the fingerprint scanner early on. What I had to do to solve it was boot up a Windows VM and update the firmware using the virtual machine. After that, on Fedora, the fingerprint scanner worked flawlessly. Linux Mint might be behind on its fingerprint integration packages, which could be causing the continued issues you are seeing.
I should mention that my issue with the fingerprint scanner was solved after probably one of the best support experiences I have ever had. I sent one email to their support team and I got forwarded to an engineering group that was working on the problem to help test a possible solution. I have never had that experience in almost over 20 years of Owning computer hardware and portable machines.
I've worked doing laptop repairs and the Framework seems close to perfect. The ability to change parts as needed is something we never had with notebook computers before. I just wish there were some more who made the main parts for these. It would be so nice if there were a few different chassis, main boards and so on preferably from several companies doing a bit of competition for the customers. It would have to be a much larger part of the market though as the limited volumes makes it way to expensive to compete about it. I find it funny that the modular ports seems so similar. One of the computers I worked on were made by the Taiwanese company Veridata. It was one of the most compact notebooks if not the most compact when it was introduced, and it had a modular I/O module. A number of modules were available and I'm not sure I remember them all. One had a keyboard port and a serial RS232 port, another swapped the serial for a VGA port, and then there were modules with a touch pad and Serial and Keyboard or VGA and keyboard port. But other than that it was pretty standard. Though working with these we bought spare parts so we always had what was needed, so we never had a problem with spares.
My framework has been rock solid using Manjaro Linux, which is not even officially supported... - Display scaling isn't an issue in Linux, you just resize the menu and font configurations - Got my 50Wh battery time up to 5 or 7 hours, after some tweaking - I put in a 2 TB SSD, so storage isn't an issue for me - Got all my function keys working - Got the finger print reader working
Every time you said short battery life I had the flash back till late 80s and that 286 laptop with like a car battery in it. Not only was it so big and heavy that you didn't want to put it on your lap for very long but you had about 20 minutes of battery life.
As soon as you mentioned the I/O modules i started wondering about something like a UART module or maybe something with an ADC for attaching sensors, that could be pretty handy in certain cases instead of having an arduino board plugged in
protip for sticker collectors: if you stick a lot of stickers and want to peel them off, you can get clear book protector skins that you can cut to size and stick over what you want.and ofc you can get different designs and such and cut them out to shape.and dbrand sells framework laptop wraps.
I hope we see more companies going this route, and maybe even working together to standardize some of the components, so we can mix and match manufacturers (and don't have to worry that one company will disappear and take your upgradability with it)
Framework is working on releasing a RISC V motherboard for their laptops, which is exciting, but the performance is not there. I really hope they release one with an ARM motherboard, maybe with the Snapdragon X Elite. I would probably pick one up then.
I like that each generation of their laptops solves a component problem instead of just being a spec bump. Really hope they look at the trackpad next. The current one is ... fine, but it's not even in the same ballpark as the Macbook trackpads. Also looking forward to a mini-server mainboard conversion video. Planning to do the same with mine eventually. There's some neat rackmount designs in the forums that look fun to build. Kinda want to try a homemade blade config with some additional used boards, or one of those mini-racks.
You referring to the FW13 or FW16? I find my Gen 2 FW13 trackpad to be quite good, although the last Mac I've used is a 2016. Still it's more than good enough for me.
Battery life on Windows is abysmal. I've been using Linux on my Lenovo Yoga 9 (2022) now for 6 months and the battery life is at least 2.5X if not 3X what it used to be. And heck, even if the current battery upgrade that Framework offers isn't great, it still 1 makes a difference because they are offering it first hand and 2, with battery degradation over time, getting that bump up is great! Good video :) I'm very glad to see more Frameworks out there. My next purchase is going to be a Framework as long as they continue to improve. Really like seeing how they are improving year to year.
If Framework keeps offering batteries with backward compatibility then it'd be great selling point for me. I have an almost 10 year old Thinkpad and the only batteries I can find for it now are dodgy ebay no name ones.
I've used the Framework AMD since launch... I use ArchLinux, KDE plasma, I never had any of the issues you've mentioned (both Windows and Linux). I primarily run alot of code, so plenty of code compilation etc. Part of the key to my long battery lifetime has been the deliberate shutdown of excess cores and core throttling... CPU generally never exceeds 8 degrees above room temperature, battery from 80% to 20% lasts 7+ hours
Re: battery life - I have the AMD version, which has really good battery life. I can also compare to M2 chip, and yes, Windows is an issue due to its problematic sleep states.
I think the expansion cards have gone the wrong direction. I think they should combine some of the expansion slots so we could get much more ports for the same space instead of one port per slot. I would want to get a framework, but the laptops of this generation is super interesting. the HX cpu's and the asus g 2024 series laptops. Also I want whatever framework was smoking when they were setting the main board prices. 450$-1000$ for current gen motherboards without even ram? Another one is paying 350$ for an i7 1185G7. 350$ for 3 gen old hardware. NUTS. not to mention that 11th gen framework mainboards have a critical flaw with the CMOS battery.
Been running my AMD framework for about year now. Absolutely love the darn thing. I got through laptops like crazy and this has survived everything i have thrown at it. Great daily
Pro tip: On Linux Miont, you don't have to click on the battery icon to change brightness. You can hover your mouse over the battery icon and use the scroll-wheel (or two-finger slide to scroll) to increase / decrease brightness. Very nice!
By the way, I made my friend to 3d print me a laptop lift that was like these old keyboards had. It was a huge upgrade to my laptops temperatures. Definetly reccommend.
I'm waiting for the Framework 16 to be as stable and durable as the Framework 13, or at least for a Framework 13 with as much i/o as the 16, then I will definitely invest. I love the concept.
At 6:15 Concerns.... I think a lot of your concerns is taking care of by the 16-in version, not sure how many of them though.... I have vague notions that they have two different NVMe slots, six module slots, and a few other things....just can't remember right now. Can't afford them so I haven't paid as much attention to them is I probably should.
5:33 in case you havent heard, framework is going to release a new webcam module soon (if they havent done it already, it was preorder last time i checked) that is a 4k sensor outputting 1080p by grouping the pixels, which apparently makes it perform really well in a wide range of lighting conditions
I moved from a m1 Mac to this. Having the ability to upgrade my storage and ram is soooo nice, I miss the battery life but they offer battery upgrades and if they ever do a snapdragon board I could use that
I have had my Framework for a few years and could not recommend it enough to people. Its not perfect as I had issues with the Display Port adapter causing shutdowns but after not using it and using something else in that slot its been amazing. The fact it's so repairable and upgradable makes awesome!
really want to see the frameworks with video card modules. that'd be awesome, and the idea of being able to turn them into mini pcs for servers/thin clients does sound great as well. Will consider it as a next laptop!
I've owned my AMD 13 framework for a while now. I love this thing. It's such a breath of fresh air to see a company to care about consumers and repairability. They are one of the few companies I can recommend. Their customer support team is top notch.
My laptop (15 inch / not Framework) is the only computer I have. It sits on top of a 3-inch metal stand for cooling. I am old school, don’t like the laptop pads or keys. So there is a Steelseries tkl (88-key) mini-keyboard and a Logitech G-403 mouse attached to it. That all fits together and doesn’t really take up much space for travel. I have used this for almost 2 years with no real problems. Regards
I bought the AMD version around the same time as you. I'm running Linux Mint and the battery life has been fine for me and I haven't had the overheating issues. I'm very happy with it and I really like the fact it is user repairable/upgradable from the start.
Re: the comments about coming from an M2 MacBook. They've basically got best in class input devices and power management/battery life, due to the integration of the hardware and OS. The Frameworks are pretty good, I've replaced my old Intel Mac with a Framework 16, and I'm very pleased with it.
This is great! Please review the GPU option. If it all works I'm sold on it. Also if battery life is a big deal for you, I would try putting together a bunch of AA in series that gives 18V that you can plug into the power plug as a backup option - it's a hack, but it might be all you need.
Shame u didn't show how easy it is to replace the thermal paste on a Framework mainboard. Clear diagrams for disassembly, captive T5 screws on fan + heatsink that are clearly numbered = truly satisfying. My previous Sony Vaio was a total pain to replace anything bar the SODIMM memory _keyboard, HDD for DVD drive_
Fuzzy text on windows can be corrected, there is a tool for that. On Windows 7 i think it was called "ClearType" and a similar solution should be available in win10/11
I will be very sad to ever go back from my framework laptop, Its my 3rd laptop and the first one that feels like it is everything I want, and is truly mine.
If you are interested in functional security and privacy, the framework is the way to go. Removable storage card with hardened linux distro on open source hardware is the safest route to go. Plus it fits in a bag!
Just got to the section about the high price and that buying a used laptop would've been much much cheaper. Yeah, a used Framework is an option too, one with much less chances of hidden problems. Probably not as cheap as other laptops, but you can buy a 2nd hand upgrade for it too later, so it should certainly be a good option long term.
I get around battery life and high temps on my laptop by turning the power limit down in the intel XTU program. When I'm just watching RUclips or scrolling Twitter I turn turbo off and leave it on something ridiculously low, like 6-7w. Hardly gets warm, battery lasts longer and reversible with a quick profile switch. I don't know if intel still supports XTU or if newer CPUs are supported. In that case or if you're using an AMD machine I suggest the universal x86 tuning utility. It has a lot fo the same functions I described.
I really like the framework laptops and what they are trying to do. However, I have desktops at home and a work laptop. So thin and light was important so I can take it and this giant Dell laptop when I travel. I picked up a little ACER with Ryzen processor as it seems like the Ryzen mobile processors have better battery life. It really isn't for doing "compute" but I wish it had more RAM/non-soldered RAM.
12:35 you could try disabling the ambient brightness sensor by blacklisting the hid_sensor_hub kernel module if you havent already done so edit: i watched 7 seconds more and actually i think its a different issue
I'm still waiting for Framework to make their laptops available in my country. I fear the whole laptop market will move to ARM before it actually happens
I hope we can see them in more commercial use. I'd like if my company used them because we use lenovos and when they have problems we need to get them sent to lenovo for repairs. Used to be I can swap out bad ram for an easy fix but that's soldered on now. I just hate how a good part of my help desk role has been diminished because I can't repair machines on site
framework is one of the only laptops where fan noise recordings and tests are omitted from most reviews even linus's videos dont mention or show the fan noise
Turning a framework mobo into a low power do it all server is something I would very much like to do. I think only having one m.2 slot limits its potential though, see as my use case would be proxmox with several applications running in docker as well as a VM running TrueNAS. Having another m.2 slot for a SATA card would be needed though.
Still seems pretty niche/ early adopter. Used/refurbs still present very good value. Just having the same body without excellent design quickly devalues the experience. Not dumping on the product but global production of A brand products challenges the proposition of the prospect of forever marginal upgrade.
I've got my framework for few months and i Love it. The highest quality laptop I've ever had. I have AMD 7840U and I'ts great, I heard that Intel CPU's don't perform as good and have worse battery life. I'm running EndeavourOS so Arch based distro, community supported. I've had a few issues that were written in Arch Wiki so I could fix them. The other was audio jack throwing loud noise after a while when there was no sound, but I found a fix on Framework's community page. The wierdest thing is that I pressed the laptop too hard in my backpack and keyboard made little holes on the screen, but I don' see it while using and I plan on switching to 120Hz display anyway. I don't think that many people consider the cost of long term usage. While you can get cheaper laptop, it can break and you need to buy a new one, where Framework will be more expensive at first, but you can fix it eaisly.
Would love to see you turn the framework laptop motherboard into a home server. It has standalone mode also, so you can use it without the topcase/screen/battery
2:45 i think the reason why your battery drains so quickly is because you chose an intel cpu, which is notorious for not being power efficient and also generating more heat than amd 4:27 screen clarity issue is a windows problem, you can try and fix it using windows cleartype
As far as battery life and temps, thats an issue with the Intel 13th gen and even the Ultra. Its well known that the AMD Ryzens zre currently the best for mobile (very perfomant, very efficient, longer battery life, runs cooler). If you do decide to upgrade from the Intel 13gh gen, do some research at the time of purchase. Right now the Ruzen 7040 series is the best option for mobile. We'll have to see which is better between the Core Ultra and Ryzen AI 300 series in terms of battery life, temps and performance. You really need to have a specific reason to go for Intel over AMD. If you know what those specifics are, then Intel. Honestly i don't see any reason to go Intel over Ryzen since the cons overwhelms the pros (all ports are TB4, and Quick Sync). Ryzen pros are way more (performance, battery life, temp, faster iGPU). Im surprised you didn't mention this in the video. Battery life and temps not Framework's fault. Get Ryzen instead, all fixed!
Well I mean there was that whole part where a simple thermal paste replacement fixed my temps. 🤷🏻♂️ But battery life, yeah I think the ryzen units seem to be better 👍🏻
though, intel meteor lake has impressive video play back on battery. Its one of the few area's where it shows a clear lead over AMD. I don't know how it compares to the newer HX 300 series cpus though ( i refuse to say AI)
@@HardwareHaven If you don't need the absolute full power, checking and toying with the power limits and performance levels can provide a big boost, especially on Intel chips, since they have such a high limit on power draw, if you give them power, they will use it. Of course a power limit will reduce performance, but in most common tasks it shouldn't be noticeable.
My mother is open to 'buying' one of my 'older' laptops & one of them is my 13th Gen Intel Framework. She wouldn't use it a whole lot & it's plenty modern enough for her light use. I'm using the 13th Gen AMD with Fedora Linux. The fact you can upgrade to their improved tech without needing to get a whole new system is awesome.
I would consider buying the 16" IF they add a keyboard option that has Home, Page up/down, and End keys on the right side of the laptop like what HP and a few others do on some of their laptops. I use the Page up/down keys to scroll through websites easily. It's a lot easier doing that than using the touchpad to drag the right cursor up and down and using the Page up/down keys are a lot easier for people who have arthritis.
My biggest problem with the 13 is that I just couldn't get used to the 3:2 aspect ratio. I honestly didn't know I was signing up for that when I preordered and tried to get used to it, but it's just too weird. Maybe one day I'll get a 16, but I can't say I recommend the 13.
Framework is not going to be my next laptop, but it's going to be the one right after my next one, if you know what I mean. First, they don't ship to Greece, so I cannot physically own one. But above all, a second SSD slot is an absolute must for me, as well as improved battery life on Linux and better sounding speakers, which I believe is currently a WIP. But yeah, absolutely love the idea, but we're not there yet.
I do think every laptop over $1k should have a 2nd hard drive slot for additional storage. It's super easy to do since the Nvme drives are so small compared to the 2.5" drives that used to come on laptops.
I bought the Framework 16 a month or two ago, my biggest gripe is that it refuses to go to sleep even with various registry tweaks and the latest BIOS. Even when it seems to go to sleep, something is drawing power while its sleeping and killing the battery in under a day. Only other thing I haven't tried is removing all the expansion cards and seeing if it stops draining, since I heard the display port/hdmi cards can have a parasitic draw. Also with the dGPU on the Framework 16, it can draw more power than the charger can provide during gaming and drain the battery. They also haven't developed a charger that can provide 240w through USB-C, I would have rather they just used a 19V barrel jack like other laptops.
![The Zima Cube is... GOOD now? [ft. Zima Cube Pro]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/7KKhgzVjtX8/mqdefault.jpg)
I would love to see a video on turning your motherboard into a home server - that would be an excellent illustration of how versatile those PC's are.
ruclips.net/video/juMLzYGo4Os/видео.html
Or maybe a steamdeck or cyber deck?
Go check out @elevated systems
I actually would not.
IMVHO currently Framework could not deliver the reliability which is key for being a "server", even a small home one, so this "shift" from "laptop" to "home appliance/server" might be the not correct way to transform the mainboard (but totally into channel/content flow).
IMVHO is closest use is for a desktop replacement.
Couldnt you technicaly do that with any laptop motherboard? Some 3d printing if you are fancy, maybe cardboard if you are not and bam
My wife has gone through several laptops and they've all broken in stupid ways (trackpad buttons, hinges, etc.). We bought her a Framework both to avoid the hassle of trying to hunt down parts that would be a nightmare to replace anyway, but also to support what Framework is doing.
Yes, we could have gotten something cheaper, but I think in the long run it's worth it.
sounds like a wife problem
@@RaduUrsache Just move to San Francisco, problem solved.
Meme not found. Mind explainin please?@@DrNoBrazil
Sounds like my reason for getting one. I kept buying around the $500 mark, previous years clearance models. Performance-wise they were fine, but they tended to cook their batteries a bit (thin and lights do that if not _well_ designed), and the plastic and often absurdly badly designed pieces (hinges and what not) end up breaking around 18 months in.
To be clear, I put the laptops through their paces. Heavy thermal loads, using them on the go, bouncing around in vehicles, just the nature of the work I do. Only had the framework a few weeks, but so far it is more robust than even the $1100 laptops I've had hands on. Of course, _those_ had a discrete gpu.
@@RaduUrsache😂
I always get frustrated by people completely misunderstanding the point of these laptops. Yes, they're initially more expensive than others (the company is also small, which adds up to the price), but the idea is that you'll never have to buy a new laptop again. You can just replace and upgrade parts as you need them without paying around $1k for a whole new system
If you only care about the price, buy a second hand thinkpad or something like that. But you'll still need to buy a whole new computer when you want to upgrade
I'm glad somebody can take away from this video what I was saying lol
Yeah, this is a GREAT laptop for someone with a clumsy teenager or a harsh work environment 👍
@@edwardfletcher7790 Or that disagrees with how wasteful we've become
Also people would argue that for the cost of motherboard replacement you could get a new laptop. While that is true you would have to compromise on many things like worse display, less ports , soldered ram and stuff.
@@edwardfletcher7790 personally i don't think so. Yes, it's way easier and cheaper (most of the times... possible while others are not) to repair, but it's less solid for impacts and... still way more expensive (at buy) than have 2-3 used "business" laptops that could act as cold spare with a fast data restore.
In harsh work environment, currently rugged laptops are still most likely the preferred choice for... impact resistance for starters, IP protection subsequently.
The torx screws are controversial but I really like the decision to go with them. Torx is much, much harder to strip than philips and a laptop with all those tiny screws stripped isn't really repair friendly anymore. Ask me how I know.
Fortunately miniature torx screwdrivers are pretty cheap. And readily available.
@@jasonk5979 Framework also includes one with the laptop.
and they send you one along with the laptop
How do you know?
@@FlyboyHelosim Both the fact that they include torx, and that they include a driver in the box were mentioned in the video
I've had a Framework 13 for a few years now. Originally an Intel 11th gen from the sale when 12th gen was announced, upgraded the mainboard to AMD last fall. Switching to AMD gave a big boost to battery life, and my 11th gen board is in a Coolermaster case running docker containers.
really? intel is known for being power efficient, good to know you had improvements that way
@@betag24cn Not to be rude, but what rock have you been living under?
@@betag24cn If Intel were power efficient, assuming that considers both heat and battery life, then no they are definitely not.. The whole reason companies like Apple even decided to move away from Intel is the same reason they moved away from PowerPC. Their laptops were running too hot and had poor battery performance.
@@betag24cn The only place where Intel is more power-efficient is in desktop CPU (not APU) idle power. All other metrics are on AMD's side and it's not even a competition.
@@zekicay that is a part where i wish it was better, idle, my old ryzen at idle eats like 40 watts, still to be improved i guess
I can confirm that all of the key functions (e.g: screen brightness) and the fingerprint sensor work out of the box with Fedora Workstation (Gnome).
Nice! I assumed they would work for the officially supported distros, so good to know.
@@HardwareHaven I run Mint on my AMD 13 Framework, and installing fprintd is pretty easy to set up (just don't forget to use space bar when setting up PAM to enable the fingerprint scanner!). There's a bug with the login (well, not a bug, but it doesn't work, something a more knowledgeable Linux user could explain about gnome keychain etc), so you either wait for the 10 second timeout or modify common-auth to circumvent the fingerprint scan during the login screen.
The brightness buttons may depend on the kernel you're using? Depending on what Mint verion you're on, it may be using an older kernel. I think at Mint 22 they're on 6.8 which seems to work really well out of the box for me (just did a fresh install recently).
Great video, by the way! :)
With an unsupported distribution you are playing russian roulette with the AMD drivers. I have had months of stable experience and then an update would break sleep mode or crash the graphics drivers.
@@yyny0Funny, that is my experience running NVIDIA drivers on my desktop 😅
Not a fan of laptops, but very much a fan of being able to easily service, modify, and repair the electronic items that I buy. Hopefully Framework becomes popular enough for the prices to come down, and for other manufacturers to take notice.
clicked on this video right away - im an urban planning student thinking about a framework for my sophomore year, and this video was very informative! you talked about a lot of important things without sugarcoating some of the unavoidable downsides. I really appreciate this video, and I would love to see a home server follow-up.
IMO not worth if for that 1300€+ pricetag, for that money you can get a killer PC and a decent but cheap laptop or just a gaming laptop.
@@MateoThePro it's not 1300 pounds tho... i'm currently typing this on my FW 13 I got for like 1100 USD with 16gb ram & 1tb of storage and you can go even cheaper then that
People tend to overlook that as much as Framework needs to improve, they are basically still a startup. Give them time.
People forget how wild this company's story is. They're a laptop manufacturer that built a new board from the ground up (with help from hardware partners, obviously) and sold a consumer ready laptop only a year after they launched as a company.
Most companies take two years just to do that with rebadged systems, forget about designing it themselves. It is an incredible technical and business feat.
@@Metalrasputian 100%, but no one is perfect, and no one expects them to be. The problem is that they've done such a good job that people forget Framework is new and needs time to perfect this stuff - as opposed to big box companies who have all had their chance and failed time after time.
In country like India, I am not sure if framework will able to break even, as laptops are an expensive to a extent.
But they may be successful in some market here,
I loved the concept of framework but it's too expensive for us
Yeah I imagine it might be tough with how (relatively) few units they are selling.
i like that you use the word expensea laptop is not a investment, is a expense, you convert that expense into a income woth your work, but that money expended there, is gone
people sometimes complain about such investments, no investments there, wisfom there is what matters, once you understand that, all the money you use on such things will not mess up your budget, and things will be better in general
😭
I think they will. I'll get one
as soon as they come to India
It's cheaper in the long term
I'd love to see this company take off, but I'm not pulling out my wallet just yet. I'm not their target market; I'm a cheap bastard.
Makes sense 👍
A cheap person can still buy expensive products if they think long term. You can buy several cheap pair of shoes over a period of a few years or 1 good one that will last longer and end up saving in the long run because it doesn't break as fast.
Check the 2nd hand options, maybe that would work for you.
I don't need a laptop (yet) but when I do I'm very tempted to buy a framework. I'm going to share this with some friends to spread the word. Thanks for this honest breakdown!
In regards to your sticker issue, you can get some clear contact paper or adhesive laminating roll at an office supply store and put that on the lid of your laptop and then put stickers on it. My coworkers do that with their company laptops. When its time to trade the laptop in for an upgraded one you pull the contact paper off and it's a clean lid.
0:47 that wobble though...
Thank you so much for this 👍
Saw some yt videos about Framework laptops (mostly the 16" one), but it seems ppl are doing a video on day one and that's it.
I really appreciate that you did a long-time review so we can see how it's holding up after the initial "new shiny toy" phase.
I must say that I have not had quite the same experience with my framework, at least since I sold my 12th Gen Intel mainboard and upgraded to the AMD one. I went with the Ryzen 5 7640u and upgraded the battery to the 61Wh at the same time, and my laptop gets 10-14 hours of battery life on a normal day of programming, browsing the internet, and listening to music. I'm also using NixOS on Gnome with powertop and ppd running, and usually
Regarding the stickers on the case, my biggest win that I see with the framework is that once the case is full of stickers and where I want to put more on but cannot bring myself to put new ones on old ones I can just buy a new cover. I even had an idea that I can then eventually use old covers as wall art! I often get stickers from conferences or friends that are one-off's so losing these has been a big reason why i don't stick them on laptops anymore. food for thought.
Looks like Framework has finally offered what I've always wanted: A laptop that can have a 10+ year lifespan (with upgrades to keep it current)! I've always hated having to replace a laptop because it's now too slow to be usable. Especially having to re-install all the apps and settings!
To be fair, upgrading old laptops to an SSD if it was still using HDD and replacing the battery would usually make them very usable again 😄
@@AninoNiKugi true, but a 10 year old laptop delivered with Windows 7 or 8 will struggle badly with Window 10 or 11, even with an SSD. I usually convert them to Linux to make them actually useful.
@@billmiller4800 Well it obviously depends on the task you perform but with an SSD and at least 8GB of RAM, it'll be enough for basic tasks. My father still uses my 12 year old PC 😄 I wish it's easy to move them to Linux 😅
Using old Thinkpad T520, Core i5 2nd gen - 8 gigs of RAM, upgraded to SSD instead of DVD/RW (same slot) + classical HDD, integrated graphics GMA 3000 (11 years old), for 90 percent of people who are not gaming - and casually browsing web, consuming content and such more then enough. Drop some Linux on it, and watch it fly. Windows 10 works without problem, 11 will never go into my house with all this privacy AI crap and Copilot pushed down our throats. We need to stop buying stuff every year (mobile phones included) - nature will say thank you - less waste generated. Finally it is time to change economic model from planned obsolence to something better. If you cannot employ people without producing 10 iterations of the same shit in 2 years (all tech companies and manufacturers), and selling every incremental improvement then something is seriously wrong with present economic model...
@@billmiller4800 On the long run you would spend more on upgrading it than buying a new one
I pre-ordered a Framework 16 back when they first announced it, first time I've ever pre-ordered anything. Not disappointed. I love this thing. I'm a sysadmin/IT manager, so being able to swap in an ethernet port to troubleshoot a switch, then a half hour later swap that out for an HDMI so I can give a presentation makes life so much easier. Granted I've only been using this laptop for about 6 months, but at this point I'm pretty confident that it is the last laptop I ever buy.
BTW, the FW16 mainboard has dual M.2 slots.
I’m desperate to get a framework laptop as I just love what they’re doing and wanna support it. Couldn’t afford it last time I got a laptop but one day hopefully I can :) Love the vid. Would love to see you make a NAS from the mother board to see if it was a good choose just to buy a motherboard of their site and use it for a NAS lol ❤
Modern day ship of theseus
Bro Summer Moon coffee slaps. Also, I have very similar thoughts on my Framework as well. It's nice knowing its a laptop built to last, but that price is tough to swallow initially.
It does indeed!
I think the biggest deal with the Framework laptop is it's designed for the long term. If you're an ultra high end user and upgrade laptops every 2 years this probably isn't for you. But for the average to tech heavy user, this is AWESOME.
Not many laptops compare well to Macs battery life.
(Except my old two battery T480 👍😁)
Do you get better battery life than Windows under a light Debian Linux install with XFCE desktop ?
I'd love to get one but I just can't justify the price.
Seems to me you could get two comparable laptops a few years apart for the same price.
Indeed! Especially on the used market.
it's defenitly expensive but you ccan get a FW 13 for around 1k by buying your own charger, RAM, & Storage. Also they have refurbished (factory seconds) models for as low as $500
Depends what you consider comparable? Sub-$500 systems are rarely worth getting in my experience. They break down often, are slow to begin with let alone in a couple years, and offer worse keyboard/trackpad/monitor and build quality.
I really wanted to buy one but my current laptop is not that old (12th gen Intel) and it feels like it goes against the ethos of reducing waste by repairing for me to just upgrade early. Will definitely buy next time i am in need
Do with this information what you will, but if your Lenovo has a load of storage (and if it don't, you could just get a bigger drive, either internal or external, and) you could set it up as kind-of a backup/NAS, which is what I've done with my desktop. I'm not saying like full-on backups and storage and install TrueNAS, just keep it useable as a regular PC but also act as a NAS, if that makes sense.
I've left my desktop with Windows and all of my games and stuff, installed Syncthing to sync files between my laptop and desktop from anywhere, installed Free File Sync for backing up files on my desktop to one of its drives periodically, and installed Parsec for remoting into it, and everything works great for me that way. Now it's like my own (very overpowered) NAS, that I can also play all of my games on, too.
Maybe you could do something like this whenever you upgrade :)
Believe it or not, Framework have actually said they'd rather people only buy when needed. It's why they don't do timed sales.
No reason to rush. Wait a few years and you may even find some good deals on the used marketplace if you eg. need a cheaper but better graphics card.
I'd like to see you put an ARM main board into it. That should improve battery life significantly. You might also be able to fit it with a more efficient display, perhaps with a switchable low power mode, again improving battery life without compromising on brightness.
Opening a laptop cannot void the warranty in the US. I'm amazed at how many people think the warranty sticker matters in the US. That hasn't been the case for like 50 years.
Like the idea of this laptop but tbh you can get so much more for your money and still be fairly easy to repair with a ThinkPad, I got a 2018 ThinkPad A285 with Ryzen 5 2500U, 16GB RAM & NVMe 256GB for just £160/$200 refurbished but in excellent condition earlier this year and it's so easy to repair/upgrade.
"still be fairly easy to repair" - not even close bud, keep dreamin'!
Used market will get worse with time as less serviceable models start to enter it. Think less about today and more about your next purchase in 5 years. If Framework is well-established by that point, then you'll likely be saying the same thing about buying a used Framework. That's the dream.
The problem is that they're getting really old: my current laptop is also from 2018/2017 and it is too slow now for development
I personally have a amd 7640u framework laptop, it is truly what it seems a sturdy, yet light laptop that has great repairability, and yes I love this laptop, it has served me well and i do plan if i were to get another laptop it be a framework
I would recommend this laptop, if you have the means but it and believe in the company's mission, to buy yourself a framework
Ps. Its also a very unique laptop to show off, something cooler than a gaming laptop
I will try to reply and answer any questions in the replies
What configuration did you go with minus the AMD chipset?
@@taiga7039 I bought a 5600mhz crucial 16gbx2 kit and a 1tb p3 plus
Just plugged it installed windows and it worked
@@taiga7039crucial 16gbx2 5600mhz kit and a crucial P3 plus 1tb
@@taiga7039 damn none of my replies showing up a 16gbx2 5600mhz crucial memory, and a 1tb P3 Plus
@@actyst901 nice thanks
I love this video, I also have a framework and this will now be my go to video to show people what a framework is.
Nice! 13 or 16?
@@HardwareHaven 13
@@KobyPierce For some reason I imagined you would be a 16 guy, haha
@@HardwareHaven yeah, its nice to have a small one though, I would like to have the 16, but instead I just got the best config of the 13.
🌚
The main issues with framework is the price, but when you consider is not going fist to fist with EVERY market, but only with those pricey one like HP Firefly, Dell XPS, Surfaces or other premium laptops that main goal is to be slim. The truth is that Framework is not for everyone and that fact we need to accept, even if we love the idea, when it comes to buying laptop for writing docs, or using browser, we gonna look at used thinkpads or new chromebooks, but when we need premium laptop, Framework look as a good option because when it comes to upgrading it, its gonna cost much less than new one.
The another fact about framework is... there is no one standing behind you with heavy object to stop you with putting framework motherboard inside other laptop case, so when you have old t480 that is not enough, little tinkering and you got framework upgradebility in your old laptop :D
Bought my wife a Framework after she kept breaking laptops that I bought her and it's been wonderful. She hasn't broken anything in the year she's had it but it's awesome that I could just replace the part that breaks. I then bought myself a Ryzen laptop for school and love it
I'm a proud owner of a 13th gen framework 13 myself and have been for about a year and I think some of your power issues are windows and your temperature issues are legitimately a bad unit in terms of the thermal paste.
I have the lowest skew of Intel CPU and I don't think I've ever seen a package temperature above about 70 maybe 80 when I'm running VMs
My battery life certainly could use some improvement and a lot of that is probably that I'm also on the 55 watt battery but Fedora usually sees me getting about six hours of normal use and maybe four if I start running multiple virtual machines.
I do have reports that the new screen helps a lot with the text blurriness. I personally have one on order.
I've overall been very happy with my purchase, and like you, my Framework 13 is not my primary device. It is a companion computer to my much more powerful desktop. I don't know that any of the Intel SKUs would be able to handle what I do at my desktop on a framework, or really any laptop in the space for that matter. If I was going to do this purchase all over again, I would probably be buying an AMD framework, even knowing the Wi-Fi issues that the MediaTek chips have.
I actually ran into the fingerprint scanner early on. What I had to do to solve it was boot up a Windows VM and update the firmware using the virtual machine. After that, on Fedora, the fingerprint scanner worked flawlessly. Linux Mint might be behind on its fingerprint integration packages, which could be causing the continued issues you are seeing.
I should mention that my issue with the fingerprint scanner was solved after probably one of the best support experiences I have ever had. I sent one email to their support team and I got forwarded to an engineering group that was working on the problem to help test a possible solution. I have never had that experience in almost over 20 years of Owning computer hardware and portable machines.
I've worked doing laptop repairs and the Framework seems close to perfect. The ability to change parts as needed is something we never had with notebook computers before. I just wish there were some more who made the main parts for these. It would be so nice if there were a few different chassis, main boards and so on preferably from several companies doing a bit of competition for the customers. It would have to be a much larger part of the market though as the limited volumes makes it way to expensive to compete about it. I find it funny that the modular ports seems so similar. One of the computers I worked on were made by the Taiwanese company Veridata. It was one of the most compact notebooks if not the most compact when it was introduced, and it had a modular I/O module. A number of modules were available and I'm not sure I remember them all. One had a keyboard port and a serial RS232 port, another swapped the serial for a VGA port, and then there were modules with a touch pad and Serial and Keyboard or VGA and keyboard port. But other than that it was pretty standard. Though working with these we bought spare parts so we always had what was needed, so we never had a problem with spares.
We had socketed CPUs and MXM. Nobody cared, because it's usually very expensive, just like Framework.
I had the 11th gen framework and now the AMD. The Ryzen never gets loud unless I load a game.
If I ever need a laptop again, Framework is gonna be how I go. Infinite repairability and upgradability is just too good to pass up.
My framework has been rock solid using Manjaro Linux, which is not even officially supported...
- Display scaling isn't an issue in Linux, you just resize the menu and font configurations
- Got my 50Wh battery time up to 5 or 7 hours, after some tweaking
- I put in a 2 TB SSD, so storage isn't an issue for me
- Got all my function keys working
- Got the finger print reader working
Every time you said short battery life I had the flash back till late 80s and that 286 laptop with like a car battery in it. Not only was it so big and heavy that you didn't want to put it on your lap for very long but you had about 20 minutes of battery life.
And then the Macintosh Portable has like 10 hours on the stock battery.
As soon as you mentioned the I/O modules i started wondering about something like a UART module or maybe something with an ADC for attaching sensors, that could be pretty handy in certain cases instead of having an arduino board plugged in
protip for sticker collectors: if you stick a lot of stickers and want to peel them off, you can get clear book protector skins that you can cut to size and stick over what you want.and ofc you can get different designs and such and cut them out to shape.and dbrand sells framework laptop wraps.
I hope we see more companies going this route, and maybe even working together to standardize some of the components, so we can mix and match manufacturers (and don't have to worry that one company will disappear and take your upgradability with it)
Framework is working on releasing a RISC V motherboard for their laptops, which is exciting, but the performance is not there. I really hope they release one with an ARM motherboard, maybe with the Snapdragon X Elite. I would probably pick one up then.
I like that each generation of their laptops solves a component problem instead of just being a spec bump. Really hope they look at the trackpad next. The current one is ... fine, but it's not even in the same ballpark as the Macbook trackpads.
Also looking forward to a mini-server mainboard conversion video. Planning to do the same with mine eventually. There's some neat rackmount designs in the forums that look fun to build. Kinda want to try a homemade blade config with some additional used boards, or one of those mini-racks.
You referring to the FW13 or FW16? I find my Gen 2 FW13 trackpad to be quite good, although the last Mac I've used is a 2016. Still it's more than good enough for me.
Battery life on Windows is abysmal. I've been using Linux on my Lenovo Yoga 9 (2022) now for 6 months and the battery life is at least 2.5X if not 3X what it used to be. And heck, even if the current battery upgrade that Framework offers isn't great, it still 1 makes a difference because they are offering it first hand and 2, with battery degradation over time, getting that bump up is great!
Good video :) I'm very glad to see more Frameworks out there. My next purchase is going to be a Framework as long as they continue to improve. Really like seeing how they are improving year to year.
really? i had the opposite, i guess modern laptops love more linux
If Framework keeps offering batteries with backward compatibility then it'd be great selling point for me. I have an almost 10 year old Thinkpad and the only batteries I can find for it now are dodgy ebay no name ones.
I've used the Framework AMD since launch... I use ArchLinux, KDE plasma, I never had any of the issues you've mentioned (both Windows and Linux).
I primarily run alot of code, so plenty of code compilation etc. Part of the key to my long battery lifetime has been the deliberate shutdown of excess cores and core throttling... CPU generally never exceeds 8 degrees above room temperature, battery from 80% to 20% lasts 7+ hours
Additionally, my left key popped off partially and FW was so kind to send me a replacement! They're wonderful
Video summary before I even watch it: Yes.
Luckily in the us you can open up anything and not void your warranty because it is illegal for companies to void it if you open it at lest in the us
Re: battery life - I have the AMD version, which has really good battery life. I can also compare to M2 chip, and yes, Windows is an issue due to its problematic sleep states.
I think the expansion cards have gone the wrong direction. I think they should combine some of the expansion slots so we could get much more ports for the same space instead of one port per slot.
I would want to get a framework, but the laptops of this generation is super interesting. the HX cpu's and the asus g 2024 series laptops.
Also I want whatever framework was smoking when they were setting the main board prices. 450$-1000$ for current gen motherboards without even ram?
Another one is paying 350$ for an i7 1185G7. 350$ for 3 gen old hardware. NUTS. not to mention that 11th gen framework mainboards have a critical flaw with the CMOS battery.
I'm kind of shocked at how much improvement you got with the thermal repaste. I might have to try this on mine...
Been running my AMD framework for about year now. Absolutely love the darn thing. I got through laptops like crazy and this has survived everything i have thrown at it. Great daily
Pro tip: On Linux Miont, you don't have to click on the battery icon to change brightness.
You can hover your mouse over the battery icon and use the scroll-wheel (or two-finger slide to scroll) to increase / decrease brightness.
Very nice!
By the way, I made my friend to 3d print me a laptop lift that was like these old keyboards had. It was a huge upgrade to my laptops temperatures. Definetly reccommend.
I'm waiting for the Framework 16 to be as stable and durable as the Framework 13, or at least for a Framework 13 with as much i/o as the 16, then I will definitely invest. I love the concept.
At 6:15
Concerns....
I think a lot of your concerns is taking care of by the 16-in version, not sure how many of them though....
I have vague notions that they have two different NVMe slots, six module slots, and a few other things....just can't remember right now. Can't afford them so I haven't paid as much attention to them is I probably should.
5:33 in case you havent heard, framework is going to release a new webcam module soon (if they havent done it already, it was preorder last time i checked) that is a 4k sensor outputting 1080p by grouping the pixels, which apparently makes it perform really well in a wide range of lighting conditions
I moved from a m1 Mac to this. Having the ability to upgrade my storage and ram is soooo nice, I miss the battery life but they offer battery upgrades and if they ever do a snapdragon board I could use that
I have had my Framework for a few years and could not recommend it enough to people. Its not perfect as I had issues with the Display Port adapter causing shutdowns but after not using it and using something else in that slot its been amazing. The fact it's so repairable and upgradable makes awesome!
really want to see the frameworks with video card modules. that'd be awesome, and the idea of being able to turn them into mini pcs for servers/thin clients does sound great as well. Will consider it as a next laptop!
Look at the framework 16, it has a GPU module
I've owned my AMD 13 framework for a while now. I love this thing. It's such a breath of fresh air to see a company to care about consumers and repairability. They are one of the few companies I can recommend. Their customer support team is top notch.
My framework laptop is my first laptop I put stickers on. My eleven year old Macbook is pristine.
I’ve been on the fence for this laptop mostly because of the price. I’ve made my decision, thanks!
My laptop (15 inch / not Framework) is the only computer I have. It sits on top of a 3-inch metal stand for cooling. I am old school, don’t like the laptop pads or keys. So there is a Steelseries tkl (88-key) mini-keyboard and a Logitech G-403 mouse attached to it.
That all fits together and doesn’t really take up much space for travel. I have used this for almost 2 years with no real problems.
Regards
I bought the AMD version around the same time as you. I'm running Linux Mint and the battery life has been fine for me and I haven't had the overheating issues. I'm very happy with it and I really like the fact it is user repairable/upgradable from the start.
I would love to see a video turning your mother into a home server - that would be an excellent illustration of how versatile those things are.
Re: the comments about coming from an M2 MacBook. They've basically got best in class input devices and power management/battery life, due to the integration of the hardware and OS.
The Frameworks are pretty good, I've replaced my old Intel Mac with a Framework 16, and I'm very pleased with it.
This is great! Please review the GPU option. If it all works I'm sold on it.
Also if battery life is a big deal for you, I would try putting together a bunch of AA in series that gives 18V that you can plug into the power plug as a backup option - it's a hack, but it might be all you need.
Shame u didn't show how easy it is to replace the thermal paste on a Framework mainboard. Clear diagrams for disassembly, captive T5 screws on fan + heatsink that are clearly numbered = truly satisfying. My previous Sony Vaio was a total pain to replace anything bar the SODIMM memory _keyboard, HDD for DVD drive_
Fuzzy text on windows can be corrected, there is a tool for that. On Windows 7 i think it was called "ClearType" and a similar solution should be available in win10/11
Great video! This is how all Laptops - and especially MacBooks - should be.
I will be very sad to ever go back from my framework laptop, Its my 3rd laptop and the first one that feels like it is everything I want, and is truly mine.
Just turn your laptop off when you aren't using it. It's not like it is a phone where you need it on to answer calls.
If you are interested in functional security and privacy, the framework is the way to go. Removable storage card with hardened linux distro on open source hardware is the safest route to go. Plus it fits in a bag!
Just got to the section about the high price and that buying a used laptop would've been much much cheaper. Yeah, a used Framework is an option too, one with much less chances of hidden problems. Probably not as cheap as other laptops, but you can buy a 2nd hand upgrade for it too later, so it should certainly be a good option long term.
I get around battery life and high temps on my laptop by turning the power limit down in the intel XTU program. When I'm just watching RUclips or scrolling Twitter I turn turbo off and leave it on something ridiculously low, like 6-7w. Hardly gets warm, battery lasts longer and reversible with a quick profile switch.
I don't know if intel still supports XTU or if newer CPUs are supported. In that case or if you're using an AMD machine I suggest the universal x86 tuning utility. It has a lot fo the same functions I described.
I wish there was some way to embed, like, a Mac magic Trackpad into a Framework laptop and replace the stock one.
Doable? 😔
The hot CPU is almost surely Intel's fault, them CPUs get hot af
I really like the framework laptops and what they are trying to do. However, I have desktops at home and a work laptop. So thin and light was important so I can take it and this giant Dell laptop when I travel. I picked up a little ACER with Ryzen processor as it seems like the Ryzen mobile processors have better battery life. It really isn't for doing "compute" but I wish it had more RAM/non-soldered RAM.
Framework: Laptop of Theseus
How many parts would you need to upgrade before it ceases to be the same laptop?
12:35 you could try disabling the ambient brightness sensor by blacklisting the hid_sensor_hub kernel module if you havent already done so
edit: i watched 7 seconds more and actually i think its a different issue
I'm still waiting for Framework to make their laptops available in my country. I fear the whole laptop market will move to ARM before it actually happens
I hope we can see them in more commercial use. I'd like if my company used them because we use lenovos and when they have problems we need to get them sent to lenovo for repairs. Used to be I can swap out bad ram for an easy fix but that's soldered on now. I just hate how a good part of my help desk role has been diminished because I can't repair machines on site
He regrets getting the Intel-
If I remember correctly, the Ryzen models weren't available. I didn't really care that much either way, so I just got the one I could
@@HardwareHaven fair, but I think the point was that the thermals and battery are better on the ryzen version, which 'fixes' two of your gripes.
Better thermal paste application fixed one of my gripes, so I don’t think that half applies lol
Still, I can’t review a product I don’t have
It’s hard to move to anything else after a MacBook. Mine is the best computer I’ve ever had and I’ve been using computers since 1973.
Appreciate the video! Love learning about how to build stuff, but sometimes it’s nice to just hear a review on something cool!
framework is one of the only laptops where fan noise recordings and tests are omitted from most reviews even linus's videos dont mention or show the fan noise
Turning a framework mobo into a low power do it all server is something I would very much like to do. I think only having one m.2 slot limits its potential though, see as my use case would be proxmox with several applications running in docker as well as a VM running TrueNAS. Having another m.2 slot for a SATA card would be needed though.
Still seems pretty niche/ early adopter. Used/refurbs still present very good value. Just having the same body without excellent design quickly devalues the experience. Not dumping on the product but global production of A brand products challenges the proposition of the prospect of forever marginal upgrade.
Looked at the executive summary of that environmental report and it's impressive
I've got my framework for few months and i Love it. The highest quality laptop I've ever had. I have AMD 7840U and I'ts great, I heard that Intel CPU's don't perform as good and have worse battery life.
I'm running EndeavourOS so Arch based distro, community supported. I've had a few issues that were written in Arch Wiki so I could fix them. The other was audio jack throwing loud noise after a while when there was no sound, but I found a fix on Framework's community page.
The wierdest thing is that I pressed the laptop too hard in my backpack and keyboard made little holes on the screen, but I don' see it while using and I plan on switching to 120Hz display anyway.
I don't think that many people consider the cost of long term usage. While you can get cheaper laptop, it can break and you need to buy a new one, where Framework will be more expensive at first, but you can fix it eaisly.
Would love to see you turn the framework laptop motherboard into a home server. It has standalone mode also, so you can use it without the topcase/screen/battery
2:45 i think the reason why your battery drains so quickly is because you chose an intel cpu, which is notorious for not being power efficient and also generating more heat than amd
4:27 screen clarity issue is a windows problem, you can try and fix it using windows cleartype
As far as battery life and temps, thats an issue with the Intel 13th gen and even the Ultra. Its well known that the AMD Ryzens zre currently the best for mobile (very perfomant, very efficient, longer battery life, runs cooler). If you do decide to upgrade from the Intel 13gh gen, do some research at the time of purchase. Right now the Ruzen 7040 series is the best option for mobile. We'll have to see which is better between the Core Ultra and Ryzen AI 300 series in terms of battery life, temps and performance.
You really need to have a specific reason to go for Intel over AMD. If you know what those specifics are, then Intel. Honestly i don't see any reason to go Intel over Ryzen since the cons overwhelms the pros (all ports are TB4, and Quick Sync). Ryzen pros are way more (performance, battery life, temp, faster iGPU).
Im surprised you didn't mention this in the video. Battery life and temps not Framework's fault. Get Ryzen instead, all fixed!
Well I mean there was that whole part where a simple thermal paste replacement fixed my temps. 🤷🏻♂️
But battery life, yeah I think the ryzen units seem to be better 👍🏻
though, intel meteor lake has impressive video play back on battery. Its one of the few area's where it shows a clear lead over AMD.
I don't know how it compares to the newer HX 300 series cpus though ( i refuse to say AI)
@@HardwareHaven If you don't need the absolute full power, checking and toying with the power limits and performance levels can provide a big boost, especially on Intel chips, since they have such a high limit on power draw, if you give them power, they will use it. Of course a power limit will reduce performance, but in most common tasks it shouldn't be noticeable.
@@HardwareHaven it did, but I'd imagine the Ryzen counterpart would run even cooler with the same thermal paste. 😁
@@user-bf5qh3ih4u I'm jealous of Intel's AV1 hardware acceleration.
My mother is open to 'buying' one of my 'older' laptops & one of them is my 13th Gen Intel Framework. She wouldn't use it a whole lot & it's plenty modern enough for her light use. I'm using the 13th Gen AMD with Fedora Linux. The fact you can upgrade to their improved tech without needing to get a whole new system is awesome.
I would consider buying the 16" IF they add a keyboard option that has Home, Page up/down, and End keys on the right side of the laptop like what HP and a few others do on some of their laptops. I use the Page up/down keys to scroll through websites easily. It's a lot easier doing that than using the touchpad to drag the right cursor up and down and using the Page up/down keys are a lot easier for people who have arthritis.
My biggest problem with the 13 is that I just couldn't get used to the 3:2 aspect ratio. I honestly didn't know I was signing up for that when I preordered and tried to get used to it, but it's just too weird. Maybe one day I'll get a 16, but I can't say I recommend the 13.
Now if they could sell these outside 10 countries that would be great.
Framework is not going to be my next laptop, but it's going to be the one right after my next one, if you know what I mean. First, they don't ship to Greece, so I cannot physically own one. But above all, a second SSD slot is an absolute must for me, as well as improved battery life on Linux and better sounding speakers, which I believe is currently a WIP. But yeah, absolutely love the idea, but we're not there yet.
I do think every laptop over $1k should have a 2nd hard drive slot for additional storage. It's super easy to do since the Nvme drives are so small compared to the 2.5" drives that used to come on laptops.
I bought the Framework 16 a month or two ago, my biggest gripe is that it refuses to go to sleep even with various registry tweaks and the latest BIOS. Even when it seems to go to sleep, something is drawing power while its sleeping and killing the battery in under a day. Only other thing I haven't tried is removing all the expansion cards and seeing if it stops draining, since I heard the display port/hdmi cards can have a parasitic draw. Also with the dGPU on the Framework 16, it can draw more power than the charger can provide during gaming and drain the battery. They also haven't developed a charger that can provide 240w through USB-C, I would have rather they just used a 19V barrel jack like other laptops.
Seems like the 16 has quite a few more growing pains from what I've seen. Hope they get them sorted out!
if youre on windows you can change it so that when you close the laptop it hibernates which stops the power drain issues
I have the 250 Watt power brick. It works great. YMMV as I don't game. (I'm a developer.)